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The mini league table – Arsenal on top

By Walter Broeckx

One of the big issues in recent seasons was our form in the top games.

Pundits and a lot of fans blamed Arsenal and Wenger for not winning the top games. And this was in their eyes the reason for Arsenal not winning things.

So after all the top 4 games being played we can have a look at those games and make ourselves a little league table of those games.

But here are the results to start with:

Chelsea – Arsenal 2-0

Chelsea – Man Utd 2-1

Man City – Chelsea 1-0

Man City – Arsenal 0-3

Man Utd – Chelsea 2-1

Chelsea – Man City 2-0

Man Utd – Arsenal 1-0

Man City – Man Utd 0-0

Man Utd – Man City 2-1

Arsenal – Chelsea 3-1

Arsenal – Man City 0-0

Arsenal – Man Utd 1-0

And now we can start calculating and make our self a little league table and after a little ruffle on the drums we can see the final table…..

Pos TEAM Games Won Draw Lost For Against Points
1 ARSENAL 6 3 1 2 7 4 10
2 M UTD 6 3 1 2 6 5 10
3 Chelsea 6 3 0 3 8 7 9
4 MAN CITY 6 1 2 3 2 7 5

So here we have it. Arsenal have won the battle between the top 4 teams this season. Yes it may come as a surprise for the people who are telling us that we have a rubbish team and a rubbish manager.  Because not being able to win those games was a big part for being critical about Wenger last seasons and now we won most points compared to the rest in the top 4 … those people still are critical about Wenger and the team. You know the he cant change his tactics and we have no plan b.  Well it looked as if we were good enough to don’t need a plan B in the top games.

May I als point at the fact that Arsenal are the only top team that has been capable to win a top match away from home. Our win at City was the only win from any top team away from home in the big games. I would say that is not bad for a team that needs a complete make over according to a loudly part of the fans.

Now some of the critical part of the fanbase last seasons will say: Oh well we can’t defend so we will not win the league. Wenger should have bought more central defenders like Cahill so we would have won the league. This is not me saying this but you know who will say this. But let us take a look at goals against? Oh my God, we have the best defensive record of the 4 teams!

In the top games we have a better defensive record then United.  And well we only let in almost half of the goals Chelsea and City let in. And don’t those teams have far better defences than Arsenal?  So it looks that against the top attackers our defenders did rather well. It was more against the more basic teams that our defence wasn’t at its best.  So we can’t defend is the word now.

Maybe this could lead to some further research. Maybe this is more down to not being as focussed as in the top games? So this is something we should work on  for next season. To find out why we let in more goals from the lower placed teams compared to the top teams? We let in 0,66 a goal in each top game and in the other games we let in 1,16 games per game.  I think by now Wenger will have seen this difference and we can hope he works on this for next year.

Having Vermaelen back will be helpful I think. And maybe add another defender and I don’t care if it is Bartley from our own youth or Vertonghen from Ajax who has hinted he might leave Ajax for the premier league where he might join a team that plays nice and good football.  Both are big and strong so they both could be helpful in some games and they sure could help when players have to play a lot of games.

So yes we might have failed in the smaller games this year. But in the last seasons some said we should do better in the big games and we certainly have improved in those games. We have improved very much in fact. Because last year we could only win one game against the other top 4 teams and we finished at the bottom of this mini table.

So the task for Wenger is rather simple in fact: make sure we don’t lose too many silly points in games against the likes of WBA, Stoke, Newcastle and other teams like Bolton. He has managed to bring us from the bottom to the top in the top 4 games in one season. So we  can hope he does the same with the other games next season. And then nothing will be able to stop us from finishing in first place.

So it is more down to making some small adjustments to the squad I think. We are nearly there just find the answer to win a few  more games against  some more basic skilled teams and we will be back on top in the big league.

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77 comments to The mini league table – Arsenal on top

  • Muppet

    According to a lot of arsenal fans, the Stoke defeat heralded the end of the world. Never mind the wins against probably the three best teams in Europe – Chelsea, Manchester United and Barcelona. Alan Brazil of TalkShite was commiserating the arsenal away fans – which is a bit odd, considering we have the best away record in the premiership.

    We must make sure that the baby is not thrown out of the bathwater. Yes, there are missing ingredients – but the talent of the team is not in question. We have to hope Wenger can make the tweeks necessary to sustain a long campaign next season, and resists some of the ludicrous calls to cull some very good players who will only go from strength to strength.

  • gooner80

    in that mini league table the goals againstis impressive but what you are going to hear is about all the other games against the lesser teams

  • Stevie E

    Damn it Walter, will you please stop proving all the aaa wrong?!? 🙂 it does show how we have improved this season, next season with tv5 back, a settled back 4 and a more experienced midfield & attack, we are very serious title contenders again.

  • Nepali Gunner

    Great article. And I absolutely agree, we need small changes. Its a mental thing, losing focus and such. Not mass change, but better preparation for pressure. That is really it.

  • bobbypiresalltimeeleven

    Possibly points towards the lack of mental strength.

    IMO we are close to where we want to be but the players that have come into the squad with any reputation have not delivered. If finances permit a higher quality of additions then I’m sure we’d all be very happy.

  • Ozziegooner

    I totally respect your views and the great work you put into your blog Walter. It is great that we came joint top in the mini league. There is no denying that Wenger is a great manager and that this team is a good team but yet again we’ve failed to deliver in the games that mattered most. Wenger has made mistakes this season in not strengthening the team when he had a chance. The most in form team at the moment is Liverpool! Look what they’ve done with the addition of a couple of players.
    They now play with a desire and hunger that seems to be lacking in the current squad. There is no point in bleating not winning anything if you are bot going to commit 100%. After the loss to Stoke our goalkeeper Scezney was joking on twitter. No thought for the fans that travelled to the game, no thought for those fans who can’t afford the season ticket ride.
    The next day Cesc was promoting his new website via twitter, no mention of the game or result. Frankly I’m saddened by how casual these players can be given the emotions we fans invest in the team!

  • Jerry

    Good analysis of Arsenal this year Walter! We did pretty well against the better teams, yet struggled against the lower teams. I’m confident that Arsene will correct this for next year! Hopefully a little more luck with injuries and overall improvement against the lesser teams will put us over the top!

  • feliche

    I must say that I am a huge fan of Wenger and believe that he is the sole reason we are anywhere close to a title. However, one quick question for tony: Why do you just assume the trend of our performance against the big sides will not just reverse next season? Perhaps we start beating the stokes but again lose to other teams in the top 4/5.

    Additionally, I totally agree with you that our open play defense has been quality this season (or this might just be due to the fact that we out possess every team we play). Just look at the numbers. In fact I am inclined to go one step further and suggest that we concentrate on bringing in a quality striker (Grameiro, benzema (doubtful), cisse etc). The reason we lost the games we have is because we were often only dangling with a one goal lead because we could not finish teams off. A two goal lead in the games we have lost would have sealed the deal, plus we get the added confidence of adding to the goals tally.

    Thoughts?

  • Stevie E

    @ozziegooner its not fair to compare a team fighting for the title all season (and just missing out) to a team who has just hit form and have nothing to lose. Also, do you really expect the players to be doom and gloom after losing a football match? Firstly as professional sports men, they have learned losing is part and parcel of sport, its how you deal with it that matters, you could argue that dwelling on defeat really ballsed things up after the cc final… To say the players don’t care after some of the magnificent performances this season is a bit unfair.

  • GoingGoingGooner

    @Ozziegooner I see your point but I think we have to be careful to infer things that were not in the comments by the players. IF they indeed don’t give a toss about results, nor care about what the club means to the fans then they deserve to be criticized.

    However I think the players are still learning the nuances of twitter and social media in general. The beauty of the internet, twitter, etc. is that messages can be sent almost instantly unfortunately unlike a conversation with a friend where you can read facial expressions and correct or clarify what you meant, social media is in fact rarely intimate and messages are often misunderstood. Players should perhaps listen to what a famous US general once said about orders and I paraphrase “never give an order that can be understood, give orders that cannot be misunderstood” We, for our part, should read carefullly and not insert words that are not actually on the page.

  • munawwar

    you have to add sp*urs and liverpool in it. an old post from 7amkickoff : http://www.7amkickoff.com/2011/chelsea-beat-tottenham-to-break-mini-league-wide-open/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+7amkickoff+%287amkickoff%29

    this was before the arsenal united and united chelsea game. united have won the league with i think 17points.. . we have not.

  • Bongz

    I respect your views. But just add Tottenham to that table and come back to me.
    If you add liverpool we’re better off, but Spurs cost us valuable points when we should have won.

  • gooner80

    **********IS IT A MENTAL BLOCK*****************

    PERSONALLY i THINK THE QUALITY IS THERE, I just hope im not like those deluded spurs fans who think they are as good as us because they got the odd result against us but failed miserable in average games.

    To me it is clear we havent got the squad to compete in all competitions so a competition has to be sacrificed. No more gambles on cesc when he is not fit. we have to get some consistency and stability especially in defence. Judging by this mini league we have the right approoach in the big games but we need a different approach against teams playing for a draw or a lucky win, we dont need the same tactiics and formation in every game. Chamkh upfront by himslef has a really good work ethic and holds the ball up extremely well, as good as anyone and attacks the ball with his head very well, if these qualities are not going to be utilized he shouldnt be played because he is wasted playing any other way.

    I am a little worried about wenger because he is not enjoying himself, the home form has become a problem this year. there is many things we have done right, away from home we have been goood the GK situation is resolved chesney will make mistakes but I feel he will only get better and is clearly better than the fawlty towers waiter, Theo is starting to make some big strides, aswell as Nasri and Jack. Foreign players can take more than a season to settle down and I dont think we have seen the best of chamkh, koscielny, or squallici.

    Im not completely happy but this has been the weirdest league in a long time very competitive, from about 6th place downwards all the teams are pretty much at the same level, there isnt one easy game and after the man u defeat we went on amazing run and was in championship form but the wheels kind of came off at wembley, up until that point who could deny we looked promising, most arsenal fans were convinced we was going to win something and the bookies odds were very short indeed, I hate saying this time next year because I have been feeling like Del boy for a few years now, But this year and last year we have put some good runs together a few more wins and we are there, whether Wenger does this by6 out scoribng the opponent or defending better I just hope he does it I dont like seeing what I saw sunday

  • Ozziegooner

    Fair point GGGooner. Thank you for putting things into perspective.
    In regards to comments made by Steve, I do expect gloom, not so much doom as there is still sexing place to play for. However, when you’ve effectively written off what slim chance you had of winning the title then I expect players to feel totally pissed!
    Completely agree it’s a psychological thing but unless that is addressed we will always be seen as the serial chokers!

  • Ozziegooner

    That was supposed to be second place. Not sure what happened there lol

  • Muppet

    Why am I in moderation ?

  • Anne

    Great work as usual, Walter. Of course, there are plenty of people out there who seem determined to think Arsenal had a terrible season, no matter what the evidence. I don’t understand that mentality, but I don’t think there’s anything you can do to convince such people. Some people are just determined to judge the quality of a team based solely on titles won and lost.

    Obviously, I fall into a different camp. But to finish making my point, I’m just going to turn it over to Xavi Hernandez. He falls into the same camp, and, as is so often the case, he makes my point a lot better than I could on my own:

    Q: Is this recognition at last? A few years ago, few people talked about you as the best player in the world.

    XAVI: It’s a pity. Not for me, but because of what it means. People have to focus a bit more on how things are done, not just on the final result. The result matters, of course, but people aren’t looking at how a player plays – whether that’s me or anybody else. They’re looking at who wins. It’s all about the result. I think it’s a pity because football is more than that. People have discovered me since Euro 2008, but I’ve been playing the same way for years.

    Q: But you have improved, right?

    XAVI: In self-confidence. By winning, you take a weight off your shoulders, you convince yourself that you’re doing things right. Before, it was a bit “aargh!” Now that we have won we have the tranquility to enjoy our football, both with Spain and Barcelona. Winning has also served to make people re-evaluate our style, my style. It’s not just about recognition, it’s about more than that. Honestly, I am very happy because, from an egotistical point of view, six years ago I was extinct as a player; footballers like me were in danger of dying out.

    Q: That’s the point isn’t it? This award is about more than just 2010, it is about you representing a type of game that, now at least, is seen as a winning approach.

    XAVI: A few years ago, we weren’t winning. When a team starts winning you notice it. When a tennis player wins you look at him and ask why he wins. You don’t look at him before that and ask what it is [he has got going for him]. The process only gets examined by the result. In football, sadly, no one looks at, for example, how is this [team’s player] playing. No, they look at the results. I understand that but I have a different perspective. [A team] can lose but I will still like them. If they don’t win, so what? I might like the way they play.

    Based on the above comments, I think we can say that Xavi, at least, would be firmly in Walter’s corner in this debate 🙂 For those of you who want to define success by silverware alone, why not make life easier for yourselves and just switch your allegiance to Birmingham? By your rationale, they’re clearly a much better team than Arsenal, aren’t they? 🙂

  • gooner80

    @Walter if you added into it the cost of each squad and value for money we are top.

    man on three players alone rooney £30m, Rio £30M, Berbatov £30M, these other teams are ANABOLIC, it is miraculous

    Take a Bow Professor

  • gooner80

    should man u not Man

  • bob

    We face a dual crisis:
    On the external side, we play on a Ref-Bent pitch. Walter/UA have nailed this brilliantly and which demands for Video Replay could be launched if only someone or website undertook this first obvious baby-step that MANY fans of many sides would surely back. On the internal side, as I see it, there are several chronic issues that do amount to a crisis:
    1 don’t/can’t defend too many set-pieces
    2 don’t/can’t finish teams off – too many open misses, cross bar hits, not clinical enough touches
    3 don’t/can’t make effective crosses into the box
    4 don’t/can’t connect on crosses into the box
    5 don’t/won’t play players in their most effective positions
    The crisis is that these are all mantras that have been sounded throughout this season and do not get addressed in training OR do get addressed but not properly OR do get addressed and the players we have are not capable of applying the lessons in real-time. All of this has been said ad nauseum by many who passionately care about their side. More could be added, but if these are wrong, I’m happy to invite and bow to analysis of each/any. And, where these are right, I’m happy to invite and bow to any thoughts on WHY these do not get fixed and what it would take in personnel and cash to fix them. Desperately seeking specifics…

  • Slugboy

    This is a good site to get a perspective, but can I add another perspective?

    This was a terrible season for Chelsea, with one of the worst losing streaks by a top side in years. Man Utd were very ordinary and lucked out a few times. This is why we are so close this year. If those teams had been on similar form to previous years, we would be miles behind now.

    We have a very talented team, but really we are reasonable distance from winning the premier league. We need height (two or three of our players must be 6′ 2” and above), more dimensions to our game (anyone getting bored of crab football yet?) and a free kick taker (we have missed out on hundreds of scoring opportunities over the last 5 years). If we get these areas sorted, we will have a chance next year. Fail to address these issues and we’ll be chasing liverpool next year for a place in the CL.

    I’ll still watch the team through thick and thin, but would really like to see these areas strengthened.

  • RedGooner

    Walter its good to see we are top of the mini league its important for many reasons. It would also be nice to see Vermalen back this weekend we have missed him a lot this season.
    Hopefuly we can finish strong and take 3rd place, City are still keeping the pressure on with a win tonight ….It would be nice not to have to play any qualifiers at the start of next season.

  • Andrus

    This is NOT new. In fact, if you go and run the stats for the past 5 or 6 years, I think you will find the same result more often than not. We often do better against the top teams than we do against the lesser teams…and THAT is the problem. This just pissed me off more.

    Think about it. If we could beat all of the inferior teams we lose to but just couldn’t win the league, that would make sense. Instead, we show that we can be a superior side and we disappoint.

  • dogo zhommen

    one gooners no matter what ,i`ll die a gooner

  • John

    Need Gary Cahill, Eden Hazard (as have zero wingers), Benzema! Bendtner out please! Won’t happen mind!

  • Zedgooner

    The most annoying thing about this season is nothing has changed from previous failures. Why do we fail to kill teams off we have the lions share of possession at times even more attempts but we dnt convert. I ll take u back to man city’s visit to the emirates we played them off the park and had better chances striking the post on three occasions, liverpool should have been buried but somehow we gave up, it has happened in almost all of the six trophyless seasons. Additionally failure to defend set pieces is unacceptable a team with arsenal’s ambitions yet alone size should be able to defend them well. The are no more excuses for my beloved, if they have a mental block the need shrink, it sickens me to know that from february onwards they implode as for injuries maybe our training methods need to change.we nw have to win our remaining games so as to avoid qualification to champions league

  • Anne

    @Walter,

    I was just on whoateallthepies, of all places, and I happened to come across an Arsenal statistic that I think is even more impressive than your mini league table stats 🙂 (this is all assuming that it can be verified as an accurate statistic, btw). I just thought I’d share it with you.

    So, without further adieu, I give you the “What The Premier League Table Would Look Like If All Shots That Hit The Post Had Gone In” Table:

    POS TEAM POINTS

    1 Arsenal 86
    2 Chelsea 74
    3 ManU 73
    4 Liverpool 59

    I know that this is mainly just a humourous statistic and nothing more, but if it’s actually accurate, it’s really quite telling in it’s own way, isn’t it? Any thoughts, my highly educated footballing friends? 🙂

    http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/miscellaneous/71190/the-what-the-premier-league-table-would-like-if-all-shots-that-hit-the-post-had-gone-in-table-is-quite-interesting.html

  • gooner80

    all those post shots is RVP, he always hits the post

  • Anne

    @Gooner80:

    This is what whoateallthepies had to say about it:

    “Strikes me as a bit of a kick in the nads for fans of certain sides, with West Ham flirting perilously with mid-table anonymity and Arsenal insurmountable at the summit after 35 games – with Robin Van Persie no doubt enjoying a 40-odd goal season to boot.”

    Sounds like they agree w/ you 🙂

  • Gf60

    😮 Anne. When I saw that chart, all became clear. It’s not the defence’s fault. It’s not AW’s fault. It’s all down to Robin! Think we’ll definitely have to sell him.

  • venky

    Reason why we have good defensive record Vs big and poor record Vs smaller teams is that big teams don’t often hoof the ball while smaller teams always do that against us and we are the weakest in the league when it comes to defending in the air. So simple ain’t it ?. Thats why everybody calls our defence “pathetic” and rightfully so.
    Remember the league has 16 other teams, winning the mini league counts for nothing.When you look at SAF’s record over the years his record Vs big teams is not that great but he always finds a way to beat smaller teams and thats why he won so many titles. A win Vs a big team would not yield 6 points it still only 3.
    I appreciate your perspective, but that is cheating only yourself,when there is a mistake it is always better to accept and try to correct and improve the next time, thats how you move farward, not by giving excuses

  • walter

    Munawar, why would I have to include games with teams from outside the top 4 to make a league table of the top 4 games between the top 4 teams?

  • walter

    Venky,
    in the past seasons when we ended last in this top 4 league table people were telling that we needed to win those games because otherwise we could never win anything.

    People were making this top 4 league table to show what a bad side we were. They said its fine to beat Wigan 5-0 but if you lose to Utd it count for nothing.

    So now we have the best record you say it doesn’t matter. And of course we also have to beat the other 16 teams but it shows that our team is not that bad as some make it.

    If you have the quality to win against the other top 4 teams you should have the quality to win against the other teams also. But as this is football things dont happen like they should happen.

  • vretou

    Thats all good and well – but who won the prem? Who’s in the champs lge final? Certainly not us.

  • Anne

    @Gooner80 and Gf60:

    Despite the obvious unintended humor of my post, I wasn’t actually trying to take a shot at RVP w/ that stat. 🙂 I was thinking more along the lines of how slim the difference truly is between 1st and 3rd place. But now that you mention it, Van Persie DOES seem to hit the crossbar a lot…

    So, is RVP the true root of all the evils that are haunting Arsenal? Well, honestly, you could make that argument a lot more plausibly than a lot of them that are floating around out there. Still like RVP, though 🙂

  • vretou

    The below article from online gooner is absolutely spot on:

    Outside top 4 finish required to see change!

    By Conrad Drykoningen

    Drastic solution to the current cul-de-sac

    I now actually want Arsenal to fall out of the top 4 next season, because it’s the only way currently that I can foresee a change of direction by the club.

    Arsene: More of the same next season
    I wrote an article back in March entitled Time to end this ourselves for which I received some pretty hostile reactions from the AKB camp, who were still convinced the club and AW were very much still on course to win the title this year. However I also received various comments from the AMG camp whom agreed that something needed to be done and agreed with me that their was simply no way we would have the “mental strength” to go and win the title (hardly a Mystic Meg moment on my part, so I am not looking for any credit here). The point is it would appear the vast majority of fans from whichever camp simply do not have the stomach to protest, and I can understand why as we are after all still in the top 4. This is why I now think the only way we can take a step forward is to initially take two steps back.

    The board and AW in particular have long since lost sight of what we were supposed to be able to achieve once we had moved to the Grove. The money started to roll in and became priority number one, and once the board had ousted David Dein all obstacles had been removed to this end (I also wrote an article approx 2 years ago stating the need to bring back DD). The most important part of achieving this personal financial bonanza for the select few on the board, was the fact they had, and still have a manager in charge who is on a personal crusade to change the game of football. The one where no money is spent on transfers by rearing only kids and to somehow introduce this new brand of tippy tappy football in the vain belief it would be a resounding success, and then all other clubs would somehow follow his lead. The problem is they have already followed his lead by copying the devastatingly effective pre-2006 team with players like Vieira as the role model, and this model is still much more successful than our tippy tappy don’t shoot s***e football (the Stoke fans were sadly spot on, it is boring).

    The upshot for the board members has been the coffers started to fill up, despite the ridiculous wage bill of underachieving players and by not spending in the transfer market. In fact making further money from the player trading account as the cash surplus figure now stands at £110 million. This is why the share price has reached astronomic levels, and has enabled the greedy supposed custodians to line their individual pockets by selling out to Stan Kroenke. Not sure how that made them custodians when they sell up without ever investing a penny of their own money but that’s propaganda for you! In addition they rewarded AW with a £6.5 million annual salary for making them all rich, and not for actually winning anything!

    This is why I now want Arsenal to fall out of the top 4 because it is crystal clear to me that money is the only thing this club are now interested in. The sudden loss of circa £40 million from Champions League participation would make the board and in particular Kroenke and Gazidis sit up and hopefully wake them up from their comfortable cosy smug self satisfied stupor, and perhaps make them realize that actual real success on the football pitch is the way to really succeed and ironically probably make them more money by doing so. The only other way is for supporters to not renew season tickets to send the message to the board that we have had enough of paying the extortionate prices with no quality experienced players ever being bought in. The reality is that they will sell out all the season tickets despite the fact a very large proportion of these fans are not happy with AW or how we are being short changed – after the promises made about competing for the best players in the world once we had moved to the Grove. The club know our deep life long love and loyalty to our club is such a strong bond that only a few will not renew their season tickets, and hence they again can get away with not investing properly in our squad as on the face of it we are all happy.

    If as we are led to believe Kroenke wants to expand the American and far Eastern markets you first of all need a team that actually wins trophies regularly. There is no coincidence that the worldwide fan base of Manure is approx 300 million compared to our approx 20-30 million. Obviously much more astute marketing of the Manure brand has taken place for years now, including pre-season tours and hence they have a huge head start, but their support will continue to grow faster than ours because everybody wants to be associated with teams that win, and win trophies consistently. When people in these countries hear pronouncements by AW that he would be happy to finish second for the next 20 years (even this has not been achieved for six years now) it’s not going to help sell you replica shirts in far away markets compared to Manure or Barcelona!. This is hardly rocket science but has ironically escaped the notice of our money grabbing board, as they have allowed AW to take our pre-season tour to the football crazy backwater of Austria for circa the last decade.

    To bring balance to this article it has to be acknowledged that the move to the Grove was a huge financial undertaking which the board have navigated very successfully on our behalf. Having now reduced the stadium debt to very manageable levels, after having to cope with the world banking crises when the redevelopment project of Highbury was in full swing, which could have been catastrophic for the club. The board steered us through the choppy waters and we are now in an excellent position financially. Unfortunately they have decided to focus on rewarding themselves for this achievement, by cashing in instead of making statements of intent in the transfer market. This is what makes it all the more frustrating for us mere fans though because we have all understood the need for tightening our belts whilst all this was taking place, but now that we are in a position to flex our financial muscle, and have been for approx two years now, we find our manager has so warmed to his pet project that he now probably believes that were he finally to spend money on a world class player or two it would be like admitting to himself his project has failed, and he is simply way too stubborn to admit to that

    Which brings me full circle back to why I want us to fall out of the top 4 because I see no other way of ending this scenario. It does go completely against every fibre in my body to even think what I have written, but I do so because I deeply care about the club and the direction AW has taken us which is a dead end cul de sac. I will admit that I simply can’t help but want to see Arsenal win every game next season as always, but herein lies the conundrum because if they finish top 4 again then we will be back to where we are now with all our frustrations just multiplied further because it will then have then been 7 years of bright tomorrows, with an eighth to look forward to!!. No doubt I will be told to f*** off and go away and support the Spuds as per usual by the AKB brigade, but that’s water off a duck’s back to me, as that is the pathetic viewpoint of people who do not have any argument to put forward about why we should continue to stick with AW, and simply highlights that they have lost the argument when resorting to name calling, or ridiculous suggestions that people like me who are Arsenal through and through for 41 years now should somehow change clubs simply because I don’t trust in Arsene.

    Most Gooners who read the comments on this website will know my overall views re: AW anyway, as I write using my initials CD, and yes I just want him out. This is because he has demonstrated his inability to motivate players, any tactical nous, woeful defensive coaching, loyalty to overpaid dross players (no point listing them, as we all know whom I am referring to), refusal to plug gaping holes in this team with quality purchases (which we have been able to see for years now, despite us not having more than half a days experience), shameful blaming of refs or pitches for his own shortcomings, talking utter bollocks like “mental strength” and “my best squad ever”, and just generally because he lives in a fantasy world where he doesn’t understand why other teams have the cheek to compete against us physically, when they should just stand still, roll over and admire our wonderful football. The main reason however is his utter contempt for we the actual fans whom were here long before he came to our club, because he thinks he is so superior to us, that he can brainwash all of us into the Arsene Knows Best cult, and any of us who are not sheep with our heads not firmly implanted up his backside are “silly people” as that dinosaur Hill-Wood so succinctly put it.

    11th May 2011

  • cin

    Its really good article.

    But still i m saying Arsenal is not trying to win anything.

    Arsnal team is good enough to beat any one in the world. But fact is, Arsenal is not strong enough to win anything.

    If we add Two or three good quality players, lot of trophies will be in Arsenal’s shelf. Otherwise same going to be continued……. Simply play top level football and not winning aything.

    At the end of day, What we have……. just a beatiful football and CL birth.
    This is enough for Arsenal Club, one of the great and rich club in the world ?????????????

  • Simon

    @vretou: thats just dumb – you want arsenal to finish out of the top 4?

  • Paul

    Just had an argument with a colleague of mine who’s a big man u supporter. He said that Arsenal are bottlers and their defence is shit. In my defence I’ve told him that Arsenal are the best team with the best defence among the top 4 this season. He said it doesn’t matter, cause Arsenal are still 3rd. I told him that Arsenal lacked consistency and luck. He said it doesn’t matter because Arsenal have an empty trophy cabinet. That is where I’ve unleashed my udnerstanding of football by saying that every single club in the history of various football leagues had spells where they haven’t won a single trophy and that includes both Man U and Barca. I continued with the fact that Arsenal are still a young team with a good academy, new stadium, no debt and Champions league football for 14 successive seasons. Guess what, with all his confidence and apparently better knowledge of football, he just couldn’t say anything more and decided to shut up. This is how you do it, get behind your team, don’t care if they haven’t won anything for 6 years, I still love them! Never allow anyone to tell you that Arsenal are shit beyond anything! Lets show those spoiled brats, blinded by recent debt inflated success of Man U what football is all about!

  • Gooner80

    the only thing worse than a man u fan is a man u fan from london

  • Anne

    @Paul:

    Right on!

  • barry

    hey paul Did u also tell them that paragraphs are shit! Rolling Eyes
    _________________
    TTORFAMPAOSPM

    ARSENAL FC NOT ARSENE FC

    Flash and D.F.S. – The Perfect Match

    IN ARSENE WE RUST

  • Paul

    Gooner80, most English Man u fans are based in London, I live next to the Emirates, but you should see how many of them go to local Arsenal pubs in their dirty man u t-shirts to watch their “amazing” (should I say amazingly favoured by the refs?) team play. They are simply everywhere.

    Anne, haha, thanks a lot! 🙂

  • vretou

    @paul – Sounds like you really got the better of him…..

    I admire your rose tinted positives but we will sound like spurs fans if we get in arguments with manure or Chav fans. Remember the way scum fans would live in denial? Well that you mate.

    Everything that manure said was spot on and you were fighting a pointless argument.

  • Notoverthehill

    Onlinegunner???????

    Obviously an “unmentionable” lager lout!

    AW runs The Arsenal Board of Directors? Look at Page 13 of the last Financial Report and one can find the detail of Mr Wenger’s responsibilities to the Board of Directors.

    Thank Heavens for sensible supporters, who look for the facts behind the story.

  • Paul

    vretou thanks for the advice, but you do not have to worry about me, I only argue till the point where I know I am right. I do know that Arsenal’s time is going to come again, don’t make our football club look stupid, they know what they have to do to change things around and they will do that and it doesn’t involve destroying it and building it again! Well, talking about denial, I think you are in a slight denial because you I agree with a man u fan that the football club you support is shit. There are always small details in a big picture, man u fans only see the big picture, that is why they deny all the luck their team got this season. Sorry, but you are just one of those people who always slam the team if they don’t perform well no matter what the reason behind this “slump” was.

  • barry

    I think it’s got passed the stage where u can defend the indefensible! If the fuckers on the pitch show no fight, why should we? I’m way passed defending these bottling wankers, but if u want to prove yourself a div by doing so, then good luck to you!

  • Paul

    barry, I’m not proving anything, just saying facts as they are. I know as anyone here that Arsenal did bottle it on a number of occassions, so what? Ah, you mean they’ve been bottling it for 6 years straight? So what? You should be glad it’s not 40! Do you honestly expect Arsenal to go down like Leeds and Forest? i know everyone wants a trophy and a strong teams like the Invincibles ones were, but Arsenal need time, it’s a big club, no worries, they’ll get there. You might tell me I’m just too young and positive, but this is how it is, I like to watch Arsenal play their football and I will watch them next season and the season afterwards, I will read blogs and discuss games, but the most important point is that I will always look forward to the next game!

  • vretou

    @Paul – No mate I am a realist.

    I have been watching Arsenal since 1987 and been in regular attendance since 1991. This team is a bunch of over paid bottlers who will never win anything again unless huge change is made. I don’t slam the team after a few bad games, its been 6 years of bad performances.

    Most things that manure or chav fans say are spot on. Just like what the media and ex players say about us is spot on. What Evra said before the fa cup game was spot on and what your 2 manure mates said was spot on.

    Its got to the point where I can no longer defend the team without sounding like a scum fan in denial.

    What can I say back…? “YEH WELL WE HAVE BETTER HOTDOGS THAN YOU” “WE HAVE GREAT FACLILITIES AT OUR STADIUM” “WE ARE DEBT FREE”

    “WE MADE MORE PROFIT THAN YOU” “WE HAVE A YOUNG SQUAD AND” My personal favourite we always get to Europe!!!!!!!!!

    WHO GIVES A c**t FUCK???????

  • Paul

    vretou so just don’t support them anymore, come back when changes take place, because now you just sound like you are really angry and bored. If you tired of defending the team, then don’t be loud about it, just ignore people, that’s it, simple!

  • livestrong

    @vretou- Throughout all what has been written above, many which are valid emotional points you have not acknowledge that Arsene may be feeling like “poo” at present.

    Here is a man who has announced to the world that his present team is world class, world beaters, yet with such high accolade the team lets him down. Arsene Wenger has had the worst year in his life; he actually has aged by at least 5 years in one season.
    When the 11 players step on the pitch, they are in charge of their destiny. He can only prepare them. I am not an “In Arsene we trust” kind of person… but I look at the fragility of management, and recall last year that Mancini was perceived to be the worst manager at ManCity supporters because they did not get in CL. This year on TalkShite radio Spurs fans are asking for “arry” to go because they did not get into the CL or even in Europe. They actually call him bad names… the same fans who would kiss his backside in the period to February 2011.

    We are all so fragile and temporary… it’s almost funny.

    I love my team though the good and bad times, through the top four and mid table mediocrity, through the spectacular and through the 6-1 throbbing by Man U a few years ago. Arsenal will shine and it will be with Arsene Wenger… because if we recruit anyone else, it will be another six years without a ******….and P.S. Mourinho will not come to Arsenal, Stan will not approve.

    We are where we are…. and he WILL fix it. He has too.

  • Stevie E

    @vretou, interesting how you started supporting Arsenal in 87, the season before we won the league twice on the bounce… the 6 years (not 6 years again!) between 91 & 97 when we next won the league must have been torture for you, lucky we got the fa cup 93 eh? I wonder if the team you first starting supporting were also bottlers? No league win for 6 years? With any luck we’ll do the double next season so you can again be happy that we’re winning trophys not just in the top 4. How rubbish are we that we only finish in the top 4 every season… how shite are the rest of the teams in the top flight if they can’t even get into the top 4? I bet you’ve never even played football but love to tell these gifted players of ours exactly how it should be done, just like you love to tell the manager what he should be doing… And all this while you run your very own global brand. Using bad language to make a point is the equivelent of fouling a player who is just much better than you. Grow up

  • vretou

    @paul- FFS, I’m not a glory hunter, I’ve been going over to The Arsenal since 1976, we nearly got relegated the season before, I just want Wenger to wake up and finally, after 6 season, recognise the weaknesses within the team and squad and do something about them.

    I want him to change his stubborn views where he can’t purchase a player with premiership experience will kill a player currently within the squad, that is want competition is all about, and we’re lacking that in spades.

    I want him to change the way he conducts himself along the touchline, every season he gets worse, I want to him also to change the sound bites he gives out after the game where he finds every excuse under the sun, but can’t or won’t criticise his precious babies.

    I also want him to change the way he views the Champion League as his ultimate goal that he must have to the detrement of all other competitions, what I am saying I just want him to change and get back to where he was 6 seasons ago.

    Oh, and p.s. I can’t stand the football he currently plays, 60 passes to get nowhere and every player frighten to shoot.

    We don’t even play good football anymore! Its boring to watch.

    We are bottlers and don’t have the balls to be winners. Sad thing is we are good enough (when we try)

    I would 100% rather we were not good enough but tried every game.

    This is what fucks me off.

    If your happy with that then I salute you. But when I pay my season ticket money and my train fairs to away games across the county I want to see my team give 100%

    As I said if your happy with the team when they don’t bother giving 100% effort then as I said I salute you.

  • vretou

    We haven’t won the league twice on the trot since the 30’s, but please can u supply me with the drugs you are obviously taking so I can also see our present situation through your eyes!!

  • critic

    throw liverpool in the mix and u will see the difference.

    By the way this blog is for pussies by the pussies.

  • critic

    what’s wrong in being a glory hunter. I will kill my team if they don’t want trophies(glory hunters). Do not twist facts to support ur theory.

    If anybody is here who doesn’t want to see arsenal win trophies please say so.

  • Stevie E

    @vertou apologies I got my dates mixed up, but the question remains, when did you first start supporting, was it 76 or 87? It appears both of us have enough drugs to addle our eye sight… @critic, no-one to talk to on the tinytotts blog?

  • vretou

    @steve: Are you Wenger in disguise? That can be the only logical explanation for your delusion.
    Are you partially sighted? Maybe completely blind, in addition to be factually incorrect?
    The game is all about opinion granted, but you’re living in cloud cuckoo land mate.

  • vretou

    incidentally 2008/2009’s record was won 20 drawn 12 lost 6 Goals 68 Against 37 Pts 72. This is not a team that is developing and improving rather we are standing still. Wenger’s signings have not taken us forward for three years but only served to maintain the status quo. I suspect he is looking down the table to see how he can preserve a 4th place spot rather than upwards to see how he can challenge Man U and Chelsea. I am doubtful that he will buy at all in the pre-season – we’ll hear that Sczeszny and Fabianski are the solutions to our goalkeeping issues, TV will be like a new signing at CB, as will Ramsay in midfield, and Frimpong will be our cover as a defensive midfield player. Also a new striker signing would see Wenger admitting he’s got it wrong with Chamakh after one season – it’s not going to happen. Wenger also hates “halting the development of his youngsters so JET, Lansbury, Bartley, Gibbs, Eastmond may all be added to the 1st team squad. Even if Fabregas goes, I predict 3rd/4th place next season, and no significant changes in the summer.

  • Shard

    @vretou

    So crying about it here will help how? If you are so sure he’s not going to do anything to improve, and all you want is the team to win, then what exactly are you trying to prove? You believe what you do, and everyone else is in cloud cuckoo land.. Sheesh.. People need to mellow down a bit.

    @critic

    and yet you choose to come here. What does that say about you? I suggest thinking before typing.

  • Stevie E

    @vretou, hurling insults doesn’t answer questions my friend… 76 or 87? let me ask you another, maybe you’ll answer this one, would you rather Arsenal be out of the top 4 next season? It appears being there offends you so much… Is going backwards preferable? Would mid table suit you better so Wenger will get booted and we have a string of nomarks who keep us in mid table or even flirting with religation? How about another 6 years without a trophy? I also notice you’re not complaining about Jack coming through this season which wouldn’t have happened if the youth policy wasn’t in place or we had a signing in mid field.

  • vretou

    Trophies are not everything, there are only 2 maybe 3 trophies worth winning these days and no one team can win them all season after season. What i want is improvment the last 4 years the club has been stagnent and its all down to one mans lunacy to have a ‘project’

  • vretou

    dates confused just like you Steve- 76

  • vretou

    I cant see how improvement will come?

    He needs to drastically change everything. Tactics, team talks, getting leaders in the team, defensive coaching, training on shooting the ball, motivating, encouraging team spirit , encouraging the team to talk to each other, dropping the dead wood, changing salary contracts, stop rewarding failure, having so much faith in shit players.

    If he does all of this maybe we can be good again and have something to be proud of

  • livestrong

    @shard/steve: What a pile of crap.

    No one here doesn’t love Arsenal – some of the love may be volatile manic or dysfunctional, but everyone here loves Arsenal. Why else would one waste so much time energy and emotion on here? Your argument might have some credibility if you recognized that – might.

    As for what we want from the team, I think we want everyone at the club from the players to the largest shareholders to make the very best effort they can to put the very best effort and team on and off the pitch to try and win trophies ahile still protecting the club’s long-term viability. I think anyone who says that has happened since 2006 is quite frankly kidding themselves.

    If anything the opposite appears to have happened, and as we have seen that several major shareholders have benefitted personally over the same period watching as our lack of spending coincided with share prices on their holdings going from below 6K in 2005 to just under 12K when they suddenly sold(in 2004 it was still around 1600 a share). We don’t know whith absolute certainly that the lack of spending was directly related to trying to increase the share price but that the two sets of circumstances coincided so directly is disquieting to say the very least.

    Finally we are more likely to go backward from here than we would be from the top two. Yes we might finish third or even foruth once in awhile but if we targetted the top two we would be much more likely to finish there than below there, and certainly that much less likely to finish below fourth. And we are far more likely to finish below foruth next year right now than to finish first or second under the policies now in place at Arsenal.

    And if you think things are tough on here now, and that it will be tough to move forward from here wait till theyn finally underspend us out of the top four. See overspending can be just as harmful or more harmful even to a club in our position. A club that every single one of us loves even if they don’t show it exactly the way you do.

  • vretou

    @Stevie E
    May 11th, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    Again your argument is flawed.

    Incase you haven’t noticed we go further backwards every season.

    Wenger has had 6 years and done fuck all. We still have the same obvious weakness we have had for 6 seasons, they never get fixed.

    Wenger was a legend but not anymore. If he arrived in 2006 would you still think he is the best man for the job? Any other manager for any big club would have been sacked by now for doing fuck all in 6 years. We are not spurs, Everton or Aston villa, we are a huge club so 2nd, 3rd or 4th should not be a target for us.
    Arsene set a bench mark and if he is not hitting it the last 6 years then he should be found accountable and either rectify the mistakes or be sacked.

    If he doest get sacked or rectify the mistakes then its us “PAYING FANS” who give there all to support the team the whole season who suffer the most

    Many of us making sacrifices attending every home game and travelling around the uk to northern dumps for night games taking time off work spending money on credit cards we haven’t got

  • Stevie E

    Of course changes need to be made but drastic? Honestly? We need a few tweeks, that’s it! I personaly would like to see a new striker next season, someone like Teves I believe would give us that edge that we lack. I’ll always look back to the Juve game when we seemed to hunt in packs, giving them no time on the ball, very much like barca did to us. I feel a player like teves would inspire that desire to clos down and chase lost causes that we admittedly lack at times this season. However, I feel a lot of the anger is coming because of the stoke result, don’t let the cloud what has been a very good season for us. Remember the point of this post is that we are top of the mini league so we cannot be in such desperate need of such a major overhaul! A few tweeks and we’ll be there. But if next season we still don’t win, I’ll still be proud of Arsenal

  • Stevie E

    @livestrong, “We are where we are…. and he WILL fix it. He has too” Changed your mind already?

  • livestrong

    That does not mean we will be taking a step forward though does it?

  • vretou

    @Steve: Couldn’t agree more.

    Only tweek required imo would be to get rid of Wenger and get someone in with a bit of tactical nous and a desire to win things.

    Maybe then we can all have a bit of pride in calling ourselves Gooners again.

    How has it been a good season? We havent improved and we havent won anything!!!! Not even a shitty cup that no one cares about that we reached the final of…… 3rd place or winners of mini leagues is not good enough for a club like Arsenal.

  • Simon

    I’m only ever 100% honest about my feelings towards Arsenal when speaking to other gooners….and then only one’s that I know are serious not plastic. And I’m always amazed when gooners call in to 606 to give an honest appraisal of all things Arsenal in public…..

    When speaking to non-gooners I tend to take the opposite view to theirs. If they are slagging Arsenal I will defend Arsene’s policies to the hilt. If they say that Arsenal fans should be grateful for all that we have then I come up with a robust argument as to why Arsene should be sacked etc etc.

    As for Utd fans I know very few that I take seriously enough to enter into any form of debate…..

    If I do feel the need to go on the attack then I point out that the only thing good about them at the moment is their Manager. He is the reason that they have carried on winning the Premier League when they have consistently been the 2nd and in some cases the 3rd best team in the country! Ferguson has ended up bigger than the club!

    Response to Chavs…..they go a season without a trophy (and not the first time it has happened) with the spending power of Abramovitch behind them. That’s failure of the highest order, especially after the start to the season when it looked all over by October. And still no Champions League trophy. The money won’t be there forever….new regulations, ageing players…. I wouldn’t want to be in their position…..

    Citeh – more money than they know what to do with yet they only crept into the CL because Spuds imploded…. Once again, the money won’t be there forever and the spread of civil unrest in the middle east could see the glory days end sooner than they think. They can buy anyone but consistently choose to buy overpriced rejects…..

    Spuds – everything about them at the moment is so fecked up that I don’t think any of them woudl dare to slag off Arsenal……

  • Mr Venger

    Some people really are spoilt brats, who need a reality check! Arsenal are the only team in the entire league who season after season , even with the handi-cap an inhibited budget due to moving costs & rebuilding a team from scratch, who can get even vaguely close enough to challenge man utd chelsea, and soon to be man city too.
    These clubs operate on an entirely different plane to any other team in the country, and 99.9 % of the clubs in the rest of the world.
    There are a lot of WEAK PEOPLE attached to this club, who fail to see that and just want to pick on AW because their tiny minds can’t think any further than short termism and going for the easy / lazy option of scapegoating the man who actually over-achieves with this squad.
    Most believe the bullshit written by the media twats who more often than not also fit the description provided above.
    Its far harder to contemplate all the variables , difficulties in modern day football & the transfer market , financial doping etc and come to a level headed conclusion , than to just come to a lazy quick conclusiuon that the easy answer is to buy Gary Cahill or some other false hope and Every thing will fall into place. ‘SPEND SOME MONEY’ and other moronic bleats.
    You pricks wouldn’t have the first clue about coaching and spotting talent, neither do most of the wankers on motd. Me like wise but I fully apreciate that to win the league is far more difficult today than it ever was in my lifetime of watching arsenal. But we have the potential to, which is more than all the othe teams below 4th, its just so fucking hard and the undue pressure is wearing wenger and the players down. But even a Wenger who is 20 % below what he was is still one of the best in the world, we need him for at least another season.
    Some of these weak people seem to act as if arsenal winning/losing, makes them personally a winner/loser, hence the excessive frustration when it goes wrong, taking it all too personally. Well imo , those people are actually losers with a terrible mentality who throw the towel in and start looking for quick fix changes, at the point when the real fans get behind the team and stick it out. Like Liverpools fans have done, even without top 4.
    Arsenal are competing at the top, enjoy the ride. Join a sunday league side if your not satisfied, try to actually win a cup yourself.
    Alternatively,if you really need a trophy to stroke that badly, piss of down the engravers and buy a cabinet full of fake winners medals and cups. It might stop the whinging for a couple of days.
    You know who I’m talking too

  • C4

    I wonder what some of these guys will do with themselves when our team starts collecting trophies with Wenger in charge?

  • Paul

    Quality speech Mr Venger, totally agree with you! 🙂

  • Mr Venger

    Cheers Paul, I think I arrived a bit late tho!

  • gooner80

    I thought it was good as well