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Watching the Arsenal on ITV today? If so, we urgently need your help

 

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By Tony Attwood

We have commented on the fact that most football commentaries are so awful it is better to turn the sound down most of the time.  But for once I want you to turn the sound up, to help develop an Football-English dictionary (that is a dictionary of the gibberish phrases that people say when working for radio and TV in English, and while seemingly watching a football match at the same time.

Apart from the phrases we need to know what they mean.

Here are some we have already.

  • A footballing side
  • A game of two halves
  • All to play for
  • Best form of attack is defence
  • Can’t win nothing with kinds
  • End to end
  • Just enough to put him off
  • He bottled it (he’s a bottler)
  • He had to go
  • He has lost the dressing room
  • High and wide
  • Literally – A literally impossible angle, (or maybe literally raining cats and dogs)
  • Lost a yard of pace
  • Mark of true champions
  • On paper
  • Park the bus
  • Row Z
  • The magic of the Cup
  • This game needs a goal
  • They’ll know they have been in a game
  • Schoolboy defending
  • Too good to go down
  • You can’t get cheaper than a free transfer
  • You can’t question his committment
  • Up for the cup
  • Unbelievable
  • Virtually unmarked, virtually impossible
  • World class

What you can’t include are the ones that we have invented

  • Rotational time wasting
  • Rotational fouling
  • A 14 man team (11 players, ref and 2 linesmen)

So we need

Definitions and extra phrases please, starting this afternoon.

191 comments to Watching the Arsenal on ITV today? If so, we urgently need your help

  • Arun

    It wouldn’t have been a foul in my days.
    The defender must be strong and can’t go down so easily under pressure .

  • Chevre Chaud

    put his foot in

  • Hadley

    He’s put in a good shift (normally reserved for English players)

  • his knob is way too big for his pants

  • goonergal

    Not that type of player ~ only to be applied when said player breaks another players leg

  • i would like to use that vasoline they put on there shits to grease my ass

  • djourou is absolute world class

  • goonergal

    he’s lost the dreesing room! How can anyone loose a dressing room?

  • walcott has come of age

  • arshavin is the best player on the pitch

  • perrygrovesworld

    form is temporary, class is permanent

  • howvard

    They haven’t got the rub of the green

  • I’ve seen them given.

  • Mandy Dodd

    He’s lost the plot! No football brain

  • Football is a contact sport.

  • He’s lacking confidence at the moment.

  • dj

    Give it some welly

  • They hit the ground running

  • Oh, what a glorious goal!

  • He’s got his marching orders.

  • He’ll take the long walk.

  • The Blaze

    ….and not very handsome.

  • Toby

    E’s got a surprising touch for a big man!

  • Toby

    It’s up for grabs now….!

  • Stalios

    He’s heading for an early bath

  • Toby

    It’s up for grabs now….

  • It’s a cynical challenge.

  • Stalios

    they need to work the channels

  • Stalios

    take a bow son (specifically andy gray)

  • It’s a copybook stuff

  • Stalios

    they’re ready to bring on the heavy artillery (when experienced players enter the game)

  • Stalios

    he’s fluffed his lines

  • Stalios

    they weren’t on the same wavelength there

  • Mick

    What about an Arsenal specific category

    eg They haven’t won a trophy for 6 years
    The team lacks any backbone
    There are no leaders
    He won’t buy any English players
    etc etc etc.

  • Stalios

    well that wasn’t in the script

  • They put themselves right back in it.

  • He's still got alot to do

    He put his laces through it.
    He never really get hold of it.
    Goalkeepers don’t save those.
    He’s still got alot to do.
    How did he miss that?!
    He’ll want to forget that.
    And the referee/assistant referee has taken a tumble.
    He doesn’t look too happy at being taken off.
    Some might say he’s a very lucky boy to still be on the pitch.
    It was just a coming together.
    He’s late and high, he had to go.
    It was half a chance.
    The ball just hits him and goes in.

  • It’s a derby and form goes outta the window.

  • Stalios

    he’ll kick himself for that

  • He's still got alot to do

    He’s taken one for the team.

  • Stalios

    he won’t want to see that again (mainly for goalkeeping blunders)

  • Stalios

    hospital defending

  • Stalios

    have they got anything left in the tank?

  • Des

    Get in their faces!

  • phil

    they’ve set their stall out well, early doors……what’s all that about

  • Jan

    Would you believe it!

  • Jan

    Textbook stuff
    Clumsy challenge

  • hambo

    He’s just given me a massive erection

  • Mahdain

    how can you all forget ray wilkins specialty? MY WORD!!!

  • AJ

    All over him like a cheap suit!

  • Mahdain

    speaking of itv look at the fail they just came up with on twitter…
    “ITV Football @itvfootball
    Chelsea 2-0 up against Blackpool and cruising already … #facup” lol last time i check it was everton playing blackpool

  • AJ

    UNBELIEVABLE TEKKERS!

  • sweeper

    and its vaN PERSIEEEEEE… Electrifying!!!!!!

  • Stuart

    Ha ha, funny you should bring this up. A while back, some friends and I were discussing the phrases used in snooker commentary and how they were actually more interesting than the game itself. I gave many examples including one I’d heard where the players was ‘hampered by the black’, whatever that means.

  • Stuart

    I’ve seen these missed
    It’s a sitter
    Taking an early bath

  • Arvind

    I’ve seen them given.

    Needs to change something.

    One last chance, the keeper’s gone up for this

    Into the final minute of normal time

    Surely he’s got to blow the whistle now

    The fans are out of their seats

    They cannot bear to watch

  • Mahdain

    its not over until its over

  • Arvind

    Allowed the game to flow

    Surely now, that’s game over for Arsenal

  • Arvind

    Oh and the best of them all…

    He’s not that kind of player

  • critic

    i think u should add two extra segment to untold :
    1)Pitch preview
    2)Pitch review.

  • Arun

    Off the topic,but did anyone notice another incident in the FA Cup when ball crossed the goal line and dean didn’t see it.That reminds me of
    We don’t need technology as incidents like these are what makes football what it is and people discuss it in the pubs.

  • Arun

    @ Critic, that will be more like cricket not football.
    But considering the pitches at sunderland and milan, it will be a valuable addition.

  • Natanael_Br_Gooner

    In Brazil, the pundits like to invent a lot of gibberish phrases for Radio and TV. I will pay more attention to help you, Tony.

  • Sammy The Snake

    25 min gone, they haven’t had a single good word for Arsenal!
    Of course, Gunner’s poor display is feeding them too.

  • Doublegooner

    At least with that has been Wenger gone next year, this dozy blog won’t have a reason to exist.

    He’s a 100% TV phrase for you lot from Roy Keane.

    ‘This is the worst Arsenal team Ive seen’.

    There have been worst but he meant in his lifetime.

  • Arun

    @ Doublegooner, are you blind or what ??? Two penalties not given.

  • Sammy The Snake

    This has been a poor, poor, poor display. Let’s stop blaming others for the team’s failing. This team has no plan whatsoever. Where’s the coaching. Where the passion? Belief?! Who’s responsible for the?

  • bjtgooner

    @Sammy

    Yes, not a good performance, but who coached the damn referee?

  • Sammy The Snake

    @bjt: did Arsenal deserve anything out of this game?! Would you give any of the players a C rating?

    Even Martin Keown says there was no penalty!

    I respect AW and want him at the club. But something must change if we are to see any improvement.

  • WalterBroeckx

    At 0-0 Webb refused to give a clear penalty on RVP. Imagine if it would have been Utd? He would have given it.
    It was important not to get behind in this game and the ref refused us the clear penalty at that moment.
    Now a deflected shot and an own goal from unfortunate Oxlade-Chamberlain cost us the game.
    Sometimes you need some luck to go further and today lady luck and ref webb were not on our side.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Sammy, since when is Martin Keown a ref?

  • Mandy Dodd

    Webb was…well Webb. He is Mr North South bias, and never going to do us any favours. Is that 3 stonewalls not given to RVP this week? But still, we have been poor.
    I would advise those of a sensitive disposition to avoid the press, tv and radio in coming days, this team, and especially its manager is going to be slaughtered. Those who want the clubs demise will now be in 7th heaven. The AAA will be drunk on a MON loved up haze.
    Where we are now, at this stage of the season, and over the last 12 months is simply not acceptable for this club. Many will have those they want to blame.
    But, this year, a top 4 place was always going to be a priority, for all sorts of reasons.. too much has gone wrong for this team to really expect to win anything this season. If we fail to reach the top 4 along with performances such as those this week, there will be just critisism, blame can then be apportioned by those who look to blame, and the situation dealt with by whatever means deemed necessecary.
    But until then, we still have a fight on our hands, top 4 is a very real possibility with the problems Chelsea and Liverpool face. Chelsea now have a nasty looking replay to contend with, the team can regroup and refocus. Not ideal I know, but the season is not over.
    But trying to look at the situation, I cannot help but think the real winners from our current situation are Usmanov, and the fans who believe he is the answer. Expect to hear a lot more from this gentleman in the coming weeks and months. This perceived demise could well prime him to strike, I wonder if Stan will get an offer he cannot refuse?

  • Laundrender

    Wenger once said “I do not believe in coincidence” neither do I. But I do believe in tactics and efficiency. Sadly once again We lacked both. Playing to feet today on that surface was suicide, as it was Wednesday night. Suicide!!! PERHAPS TIME TO MAKE A NEW BANNER FOR UA:

  • bjtgooner

    @Sammy

    Sorry mate, we will have to disagree. We were poor, but with a fair official we would probably have won. That does not mean that I don’t want the team to play better.

    Did Arsenal deserve to get something out of the game against a group of kickers – most definitely.

  • Paul "the Gooner"

    Iam going to swear for the first time on this website.That fucking Tyldesley what a disgrace.We know all the media are against AW but this bloke to the piss.He never said anything positive towards us,not a thing.Ok i know it was not that good,but to go the whole match and say fuck all is a joke.What is this love in that the media have with O”neill.This is the guy that spent the most money on transfers a few seasons ago, then when he is not given anymore he clears off 4 days before the season starts.
    This time last week we were all very happy.Ok 1 totally crap performance and one very average performance does not make us a bad team.One thing i will say, is that we have played on two of the worst pitches we will play on all season.I would have taken 3pts last week over a cup victory.Next week is a massive match.The injuries are very worrying.I am now going to email ITV and tell them what i think of Their production!

  • AK

    Years like that take place from time to time. Lets see if the team picks itself up and try to go for the 4th position.

    But really worried about the state of the team. Too many players (of the fit ones) will not be present next year:
    -Benayoun
    -Rosicky
    -Arshavin
    -Parks
    -Chamakh
    -Squillaci
    -Almunia
    -Fabianski?

    For sure Persie will leave and not many players will follow.

    And if Wenger is planning to leave, they better bring the replacement as soon as possible.

  • Mahdain

    @mandy well put…a lot of things need to change but many people make wenger the scapegoat why? its the easiest thing to do while infact its the people running the club that are the problem..im sorry but anyone who believes sacking wenger will be the answer you will be in for a rude awakening.. without wenger we will be far worse than we are atm

  • Mandy Dodd

    Paul, I completely agree with you, the 3 points last weekend were more important than winning today…ok winning both would have been ideal, but….seems we do not get everything these days

    MON , like Arry has a lot of friends in the UK media, and courts them, Wenger, rightly or wrongly does not, he generally makes no attempt to hide his contempt for them. Make no mistake, the media will not rest until Wenger is out and we have someone like Moyes in place.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Agree Mahdain, whatever is or is not wrong at the club, sacking Wenger is not the answer, and fortunately, it is unlikely to happen

  • Joe

    I see some idiots still making excuses. seven years of rubbish and still making excuses when will people learn. even if we didn get the ppenalTy we had the whole game to score .

  • Mandy

    Agree about Wenger, but there some change is needed at the coaching personnel?

    Why we never press as a team? Always I see one-two players are pressing and the other ones are not covering the gaps.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Joe I think every follower of football would know that when you just had a bad result in midweek the last thing you need is to get behind. And even better get a chance to get in front. So at 0-0 not to get a clear penalty is hard to take.

    It could have been a turning point because from that moment it would have been Sunderland that would have to come out and attack. Now they just could sit back for 90 minutes and park the bus on their wobbly pitch.

    Not saying we lost the game because of the pitch but we lost 4 players (and maybe 5 – Per, Kos, Ramsey, Squilacci, Coquelin) on the worst pitches I have seen for a long time. Is this injury wave a coincidence or is there a link with the pitches?

    I think tomorrow on my game in the 3rd division here in my country I will see a better pitch.

  • Sammy The Snake

    Given the choice, I would have taken a win against S’land last week. Finishing 4th is the priority.

    @ Walter: we always seem to lose with an odd or two goals here and there. You can’t put all the losses of past years on luck… I think the word is competence. For some reason, we are short on that, specially this year.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Maybe having no Per and Kos in the middle of the defence could be a bit important?

  • Mandy Dodd

    seven years of rubbish….only 2 EPL teams have done consistantly better than us over the last 7 years, and they were not paying for a stadium as far as I am aware, think you will find both had rather a lot of money to spend.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Think you are right about mssing key defenders….again…

    From the BBC web site:

    Arsenal allowed the opposition six shots on target this week (Milan five, Sunderland one) yet conceded six goals

  • dan

    For many of the seasons we have failed and this season no different. To point the finger at the man in black and throwing our arms in the air when lady luck turns her back, would this crop of players hold a candle to our old warriors? Arsenal lose major players every season and every statement we hear is a broken promise, is this Wenger or the Board? If this is the board then Usmanov may not be such a bad candidate however should this be Wenger, then we are grateful for his efforts but please move on.

    It’s not a given but please, what we seen this season will get worse if nothing is done this summer!

  • Mahdain

    the usmanov bandwagon is rolling again..like someone said he is the one who loves whats happening the most…his loyals want kroenke(who hasnt even had 2 years yet since taking over) out…i dont why but i just dont like that guy one bit..have a feeling he will run us to the gutters if he does indeed take over from kroenke

  • Mahdain

    that being said i do think we need fresh new faces in the board starting with chairman`s position…changes in training methods,coaching staff i dont know but some changes need to happen but just dont let it be the managerial change..as the saying goes”be careful of what you wish for you might get it”..we might as well return to the rioch days

  • Mandy Dodd

    There will be board changes this spring, the old guard are rumoured to be leaving. I think this could open up the very realistic possibility of Usmanov putting in a very good offer that Kronke may or not accept. Usmanov has been very quiet lately, unusually quiet.
    Part of the online agenda of the AAA is to hope to create empty seats, hope we do not reach the CL, hope we lose top players and to persuade Kronke that his marketing plans will not come to fruition, tempting him to sell. Usmanov comes in, brings in Dein, if Wenger does not like it, Jose can come over. AAA Nirvana ensues.

  • Mahdain

    @mandy what i wont understand is how can these people call themselves supporters/fans of the club and then want us to do bad so that they satisfy their agendas..seriously why even bother? there are a lot of other teams out there to support

  • Tone

    The worst part for me is that we have become incredibly tedious to watch. Beating Blackburn 7-1 is not exciting. Getting a draw in the San Siro would be.

    We have one striker!!! No other team has only one striker.

    Am also bored out of my mind by AW interviews now. Can’t stand the excuses and the referee blaming.

    AW has never played Arshavin in his preffered position which is behind the strikers and he has ruined him as a player.

    Fed up and losing interest and I say that after almost forty years supporting the Arse.

    I used to go to games but the thought of paying £50 to watch that lot now makes me laugh.

    The board have sold the fans out. Selling to Kroenke who couldn’t care less says everything about their lack of ambition.

  • Mahdain

    @tony@walter please kick out joe from here..he is just being all abusive and calling weneger all sort of names..keep true to the untold motto

  • Mahdain

    *wenger

  • Sammy The Snake

    AW has done a lot for the club over the years, so please keep your respect. You may have your opinion, but you don’t have the right to abuse anyone.
    We don’t know the internal mechanics of the club. AW has done well with the little funds available to him. The curent system is failing, not just Wenger.

  • DC

    And the vitriolic post-mortem and “Wenger-out” band-wagon continues! It is unfortunately now becoming far too easy for the AAA and BBB to batter the manager and the players – and i think that if we’re all honest to ourselves, we can see exactly why?!
    There is no denying that that was another very poor performance and Sunderland clearly deserved their victory. Sunderland were well organised and exploited all of their attributes and strengths.

    Many of the Arsenal players are now totally lacking in confidence, belief, desire and, worse of all, pride and and strong character and attitude to try to help each other through the slumps during matches!
    Nearly all seem unable to perform the most basic technical footballing tasks that they were brought into the club for and the tentative play is now so endemic and infectious that even Ox has been afflicted!

    I’ve never given a flying fig about winning the FA cup, Carling Cup or CL this season because the EPL and CL qualification were always going to be the be-all-and-end-all with the transfers of Fabregas & Nasri in the summer, but I am now totally at a loss to explain the ongoing lack of basic on-field footballing intelligence wrt positions, fight and work-ethic of increasingly more of our players! Many have totally forgotten how to play professional football in the Arsenal-way and it’s now just school-boy football! Even Swansea, who started the same policy years after Arsenal, have players that are more assured and give you confidence when on the ball in ALL situations (RVP exempted of course)!
    This Arsenal team just now makes it TOO EASY for ANY OPPOSING TEAM to play against them if they have basic organisational sense and a little bit of pace and strength up-front! Many of the current squad need to seriously look at their attitude during matches and when the “chips-are-down”! It’s thanks to the self-centred nature of their players and AVB being in charge, that CL qualification is still a very real prospect to salvage our season, but it’s up to these players to recognise that and stop playing like a bunch of players who’ve forgotten how to play and play the Arsenal way!

  • DC

    Incidentally, Webb, as usual, gave us nothing but the penalty claim for O’Shea’s challenge on RVP was not a pen – he just got the ball. Also, i don’t recall many of the nearby players claiming it was one either so let’s not focus too much on that decision.

  • Mahdain

    @DC agreed..the players need to take a lot of blame on their shoulders. wenger takes a lot to cover for them and how do they repay him? fail miserably when it matters..seriously before any of the player complain we dont win anything,they need to take a hard serious look on themselves first and see one of the reasons is their constant failings and make mistakes after mistakes..we already know refs wont think twice before screwing us then why give them the opportunity to do so?

  • Jim

    @ Mandy Dodd
    For once, why can’t you all see that our performances in 2012, bar the blackburn game, have not been good. We have too many injuries, is it just luck, or something to do with over-using players because our squad lacks depth in quality. We clearly needed re-inforcements in Jan. We already knew that Jack, Diaby, Jenks and Santos are out long-term and players like Kos, Per and Ramsey are over-played and a RVP injury can spell doom. Yet Wenger stubbornly refrained from buying.

    Is it the Board which is stingy and ties Wenger’s hands or is it Wenger who has failed to show foresight and remained stubborn with his transfer and wage policies. Either way, it has cost us another year of misery and humiliation including dreadful OT and Milan games & with a very realistic chance of missing 4th and finishing below spuds and that too in our 125th year.

    So if these AAAs ask for a change in management or board or both, I feel, they are justified coz this club belongs to its supporters first and then to the Kroenke, Gazidis and PHW lot. I don’t believe Usmanov, Dein can turn things around magically, but atleast they will not be so passive as Silent Stan.

  • bjtgooner

    @Walter & Tony

    As much as I am all for free speech, I don’t think Joe has anything constructive to offer, so I support Mahdain’s suggestion.

  • DC

    @Tone,
    It makes no sense whatsoever to constantly hammer your players in public as you still need to keep them onside for the remainder of the season. A good manager always does it behind closed doors individually with each player with the very occasional public rebuke and venting of anger and criticism!

  • Jim

    @ DC. Spot on. The players are lacking passion, determination and seem unable to grind out a result. But Wenger also has to share the blame, coz for some reason he’s failing to motivate the players. We lack physicality and are making too many wayward passes, no real penetration and basic defensive errors.
    Also this affecting the team’s confidence and unity causing further misery, like a vicious circle.

    Also one incident disheartened me a lot. When Oxo scored an own-goal, not one player consoled him or put an arm around him when he seemed totally devastated. This sums up the team’s attitude for me.

  • dan

    Too many people are seeing what they want to see, AAA and the pro Wengerians, either way lets not forget we love our club first.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Jim – the injuries, I think we are overusing players without a doubt, as Jack has proven.
    Reinforcements in Jan – fine – but who was available? Nobody lept out at me? Podolski wanted to stay so as not to ruin any chances with Germany. Gotze, Hazard, Gourcuff , M Villa et al were not available in Jan Remember, with the quota system, we would have to have offloaded players, and we seem to have trouble offloading certain players, but that is for another argument. Buying for buyings sake, and you end up with the likes of Park, who is used as a stick to beat Wenger with, if indeed he was a Wenger choice which of I have my doubts.
    The AAAs can ask for whoever or whatever they wish, I do not know Usmanov or Kronke, from recent Wenger quotes, I am starting to worry a bit about Stan to be quite honest, maybe the former could help in in the short term, or even the long term but I can only offer my opinion on this subject, and I have been around for long enough the realise there is rarely such thing as a free lunch.
    Whatever any of us think about the pros and cons of Usmanov, he is not going away, from what I read, he really believes he can get his hands on the club, and soon,and in this world, guys like that seem to have a habit of getting their way.
    Watch this space…….

  • Jim

    Mandy- Agree with you that there were hardly any players in Jan. But look at our last summer dealings. We knew all along that Fab will leave, Nasri and Clichy too. Yet we waited till the last moment. Also we had Mata then, but we dithered and allowed Chelsea in. We took Park, but ignored Parker and Demba Ba on a free. In jan, we could have offloaded Squillachi, reckon some club made an offer, and could have replaced with Samba who wanted out. Something tells me, our scouts/manager/board are not on same page and are not ambitious. Sometimes a calculated big-money player risk needs to be taken. We have to accept that money now rules.
    Also I too never liked Usmanov, but he seems like a guy who may spend for the betterment of the club and demand better performance from players and coach. I maybe wrong though.

  • bjtgooner

    @Mandy
    It seems to me that every time we play badly, or are shafted by the officials, the media goes nuts regarding the two potential saviours – Dein and Usmanov. Even the AAA scum seem to favour them – that makes me very suspicious – I think the club needs to look very carefully before leaping in their direction.

    @Tone.
    Suggest you find another club to insult – or crawl back to the AAA sewer.

  • dan

    @Jim
    totally agree.
    Letting Mata slip through our fingers really does seem like madness or just plain agreed behalf of our club.

  • dan

    Correction
    @Jim
    totally agree.
    Letting Mata slip through our fingers really does seem like madness or just plain greed behalf of our club.

  • I’ve deleted some of the recent abusive comments. Just the one commenter who needs to keep their toys in the pram

  • Mahdain

    @phil the one in preview is still there..remove that also please

  • DC

    @Jim,
    I agree, Ox should have been consoled by the more senior players. The lack of collective support, unity and responsibility during the match is very palpable now; and it is up to the players and not the manager.
    ATTITUDE! ATTITUDE! ATTITUDE!
    This is crucial for attaining the top 4 and needs to return as a matter of urgency! Our opponents need to start fearing us again ASAP because they do not in any way at the moment!!

  • Doublegooner

    To all the ‘Arsene disciples’ I can’t tell you the players name, but i know as fact one player who recently has said ‘the players do not believe Wenger anymore’.

    This same player has put his house up for sale & has also said he expects be playing for another PL team next season.

    I couldn’t care a damm about this player, but his & many others performance demonstrates what he said.

    Your Leader is well past his sale by date.

  • DC

    Pride & technical confidence in their ability needs to also come back – that’s what has made this team special and why, until only till this season, we used to only be second to Barcelona in-terms of our purity of football and style!

  • DC

    @Doublegooner,
    Unless you name the source or the player, your comment has no value whatsoever!

  • DC

    Nor does it have credibility!

  • Mahdain

    i agree with DC…either give a name or a source or just shut up with your AAA material

  • Doublegooner

    DC:

    I would name the player – but it would cause major embarrassment to another Gooner he is very close to, so I won’t.

    As I said this player to me sums up our lackadaisical play.

    Irrespective whether you are pro or anti Wenger, surely it can be seen the players are not responding even if many of them are sub standard to what we expect should be playing for our club.

  • Jim,i thought it was disgusting that at the final whistle a clearly distraught Alex Ox was being consoled not by his own team mates but by the opposition.RVP is clearly not bothered any more;as captain it was his duty to talk to the young man but i fear his head is elsewhere,i can recognise the signs as i have seen them over the past few years with monotonous regularity.Wenger of course was nowhere to be seen having scooted down the tunnel quick sharpish as is his wont.These young players are being exposed to situations they are not ready for and i just hope Alex has a thick skin and does not let so many demoralising defeats affect him.If i was his father, i would be seriously questioning whether this is the right club to develop his talents as most of our young players appear to be going backwards at an alarming rate.

  • GoingGoingGooner

    We are surrounded by those who would have us fail. We have a choice to succumb to their vitriol and hate or gird our loins and fight on. Losing today need not mean we shall lose tomorrow. Up the Guns!

  • DC

    @Doublegooner,
    I see but perhaps you can clarify if he is a regular first teamer or not?

    The players certainly aren’t doing the club or themselves any justice, whether they agree with the manager or not!
    If that player is knowingly not trying as hard as he can regardless, then he shouldn’t be at our club and he can just piss-off and take his unprofessionalism and disloyalty for our club, and the manager, elsewhere!

  • Doublegooner

    DC:

    Most definately a regular 1st teamer. Another glove wearer.

  • Doublegooner

    Mahdain:

    Grow up you clown. Whether DC agrees with my overal opinion of what i happening at our club, I think he understands why I cannot name the player.

    I hope my reply doesnt result in you asking for me to be removed 🙂

  • DC

    @Doublegooner,
    I see. I guess we’ll have to watch what happens over the next few matches with him – if he keeps getting played?!

  • Doublegooner

    DC:

    He’s one of the first on the teamsheet. Unless he gets injured he’ll be ‘playing’.

    I don’t agree with any of your views on here, I will openly state I have had a bellyful of Wenger & began openly protesting he was going downhill 5 years back. Without being rude, I just cannot understand the blind backing of Wenger on this ite as we know him now.

  • DC

    Either way, something definitely isn’t right with the psyche and attitude of the players; and that is very unacceptable regardless of the underlying cause!
    It is totally unprofessional and shows contempt for the fans, and especially for those of us who follow them away from home!

  • Doublegooner

    Correction – site

  • bob

    Doublegooner,
    I think you have the responsibility either to state what you know or resist you overwhelming need to state what you purport to know at this time. By doing what you just did, you add to the gloom and demoralization. Is that your intention? If you have further or any critiques, fine. Just state them. But since no one can answer anything you have alleged, and then you say it’s for the good of another player, I think your action in posting the unsubstantiable allegation is unethical and mind-fucking to anyone who reads your posting. Whether you are right or not, you are claiming insider information which you will not risk verifying, but are willing to make the claims that bring you attention and/or try to further de-stabilize fans faith in the future of their club. Why not just make your substantial points? No. You play in unsubtantiable rumor. Anyone can do that, especially anyone who knows what they know about you. Now if that feels unfair, it is. (Now you know what might get an inkling of what you are trying to pull here.)

  • dan

    @Doublegooner
    RVP????????

  • Joe

    wow we still have peiollelicking the mangers shoes. all I need new is for shards to tell me we r going to win the title and all Ian rosy in tar wingers garden. when we get bounced by spurs then u will see u fools..this manger is beyond repair abduction the cunts at the board are behind this mutiny. mass revolt is needed

  • bob

    p.s. what you will have done, as you know, is to start a witch-hunt – who’s the traitor in the ranks? That is vicious. If you have a fact, state it. If you don’t or won’t, what you’ve done is taken your 5 years (you claim) of feeling you’re right to want Arsene Out and boil it down to this moment when you can do a drive-by hit on fans here who deeply care, all so you can have your selfish revenge on AW. If he deserves to be out, make your case again and take what comes your way and give back in kind as you wish. But you have crossed an ethical line here in your claim of inside knowledge which no one can refute, and which might have – as you intend, or haven’t or won’t think through – such toxic effect. It consoles me, in this moment, that you have you to see in the mirror.

  • bjtgooner

    @bob
    Well said. Doubletalker is being deliberately mischievous.

  • AFCThick/Thin

    “ARSENAL’S TROPHY WAIT GOES ON AS WENGER SITS ON £57m TRANSFER KITTY”.

    “HOW MUCH LONGER CAN ARSENE WENGER BE OFFERED THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT?”

    The media circus has started up again, knew it wouldn’t take long.

    Yes Arsene, spend the money on one or two world class players that could flop and leave us in debt. PLEASE ruin the future stability of the club Mr Prof guy because I want a trophy NOW and I don’t care about the future! (Sarcasm).

    And for the phrases:
    Invited the challenge (like it’s the players’ fault he got hammered).

  • bob

    Joe, Dan and Doublegooner,
    Do you sing from the exact same hymn book, or type at the same keyboard?

  • dan

    @Bob
    I haven’t said anything I’m asking, read it again friend.

  • Mahdain

    @bob or in other words he is doing exactly what the sun,talkshit and other media outlets are doing..just another ITK

  • bjtgooner

    @dan

    I think bob was also only asking.

  • Doublegooner

    Bob:

    Do you work as a council diversity officer by any chance ?

  • Mahdain

    @joe funny how you resort to name calling instead of proper debates..did we touch a nerve there?

  • Mahdain

    @doublegooner are you an ITK by any chance?

  • Doublegooner

    Bob:

    What you seem to fail to understand is that because I had my doubts about Wenger 5 years ago, suggests that because I have a diiferent opinion from you guys, ‘who deeply care’ that I don’t.

    I like your ‘leader’ Tony have lived my life for this club. My father first started going in 1936 & I regulary from 1966.

    It’s because it means so much to me that I get so angry at what I see happening now to the club.

    Just because fans ( yes fans) like me have an alternative take on what I see as as club going downhill ( unless you just get turned on with the cash in the bank as being success) you see us as literally disrespecting Weger & driving him out.

    IMO< you fail to see that he should be criticised.

  • Paul "the Gooner"

    Can all the the wonderful pundits who want AW out tell me who should replace him! Steve Bruce,the Spainish waiter,the liar,cheat from Madrid.Within the next year a few top teams willl need managers.The Spuds,Chelsea,Man City if Mancini fails to deliver.Then you have the jock at Unt getting old, even King Kenny could be on dodgey ground.

  • Sav from Australia

    Hi,

    Long time follower of this blog, first time comment.
    I have always found the people who post on this blog to be sensible and insightful.

    However, I have noticed from last week, there seem to be several new posters, who to my eyes seem to be either the same person or at least in league together. Their purpose seems to be to destablise the comments section of these articles.

    Could the moderators please investigate and get rid of them, as their continuous nonsense is deteriorating the quality of the conversations in the comments section.

    You don’t have to allow this post to go through, but I would like to highlight the following people who should be seriously investigated:

    Jim
    February 18, 2012 at 9:26 pm

    dan
    February 18, 2012 at 9:28 pm

    Doublegooner
    February 18, 2012 at 10:50 pm

    Basil
    February 18, 2012 at 11:07 pm

    Joe
    February 18, 2012 at 11:52 pm

    I have learnt a lot from Untold and I am sure there are many of us who don’t comment who just come along to read the insightful comments. Please sort out these hooligans.

  • bjtgooner

    @Doublegooner

    I’m glad that you have clarified that you are a long term fan. The point is, as fans we support the club, team and manager – through thick and thin, when results are going badly it is hell for us – but it is a thousand times worse for the team and manager. They need the fans to back them. Too many fans are already being subjected to the media nonsense/hype and the AAA propaganda.

    Spreading stories about players wanting to leave cannot help the performance, no doubt the AAA and gutter press will latch on to your earlier posts.

  • Doublegooner

    Paul:

    Only someone so blind to the Wenger cause would stupidly bring up Steve Bruce. No one sane would !

    If we had an owner who really cared about the club & not just buying it to add to his sporting ‘collection’, perhaps with all the millions in the bank, the so called wonderful stadium, don’t you think we might or should be able to attract a top manager.

    But perhaps a lesser up and coming manager maybe a consideration, one that would surround himself with some ex Arsenal players in his backroom set up, someone who would get some new fitness ideas into the training, perhaps introducing pilates as we are one of the only clubs now not incorporating this, which adds valuable muscle conditioning.

    Perhaps a manager who would re-introduce the work ethic to a group of players where maybe they have become to pampered,

    Perhaps, a manager who would impress on players that we defend as a team & we attack as a team.

    It could be a number of managers, many of whom you lot would probably just laugh at, but what you won’t consider is ..perhaps Arsene has just had his time, because he doesn’t seem to now do any of the above..& if he is, it isn’t working.

  • DC

    @Doublegooner,
    I don’t think that any of us are happy with the sparseness of our trophy cabinet over the past 7 years but I personally understand the circumstances that have surrounded it.

    Many players, and it is not always down to the manager, have let down the club in one way or another, and especially in asking for transfers before due time and showing disloyalty to the club and fans that have made them what they are!
    I for one admire Arsene Wenger for what he has achieved in the intial short-term, and what he has been working tirelessly hard in the longer-term to achieve for our wonderful club. With all of that said, i am not devoid of logical and rational criticism without emotional over-reaction when it’s due; as I have done recently after the Milan fiasco and today at the Stadium of Light!

    It is very important that when anyone assess our club and criticises it, they look at the very bigger picture and the long-term objectives!
    Do not jump-to-attention at everything that the players say or think in their era of play at any club (as they all come and go and are invariably only interested in their egos and what THEY THEMSELVES CAN ACHIEVE in the lifespan of their own personal footballing careers and not in the greater traditional good of the club they are playing for at that time)! Consequently, the vast majority of players (Ryan Giggs & Paul Scholes being possible exeptions) are just far too selfish nowadays and they only lookout for “number one” wherever they can get it (Ibrahimovic and Anelka are the text-book examples of such).

    A player that is raised, indoctrinated, lives and dies for the club is something that takes time to nurture and that is what will breed long-term and sustained success in the future (as you now see in Barcelona with the odd purchase here and there) and not the short-termism of clubs like Chelsea and ManC.

    I could quite easily wait a total of 10 years since our next trophy (as this is a lot less than it took for Barcelona to get where they are now) as long as i can see the long-term and self-sustained is possible in that future.
    Over the past 7 years I have been frustrated but satisfied pragmatically knowing what the ultimate aim of Arsene Wenger is for AFC (the Barcelona model being observable as a working example wrt their footballing ethos and academy but not their financial prudence). In addition, I have greatly enjoyed watching over the sparse years, the most attractive and entertaining football in the UK, and arguably the second most attractive in Europe behind Barcelona.

    What angers me about the Anti-Wenger crowd is that they do not seem to recognise and appreciate this and are being rallied by external forces (usually the media) and the contemptible character traits of modern pop culture (superficiality and short-term satisfaction) to encourage the incompetent and non-sustainable “spend, spend, spend” model which only lines-the-pockets of those who don’t really care about the club they play for or report upon!

    Where I am further frustrated with the Arsenal team and squad at the moment, is that they are not playing in the beautiful and entertaining way that we all know they can, and that’s regardless of Fabregas’ et al’s departures in the summer!
    It has also highlighted to me that we have players currently at the club who state that they care about it and the fans, yet by their very clear lack of consistent commitment and fight, they are actually talking shit and lying through their selfish teeth! Those types of players, including the one you are mentioning i’m sure, we can very well do without at Arsenal and I would like them all to leave as I very much hope that Arsene can do this summer in a more controlled transfer window!
    You do not have to agree with me on all i have said but this is my view and has been over the past 7 years!

  • roaaary

    this website was designed for sheep. can you not understand that todays performance as well as the game at milan was bereft of tactics. wenger is unable to motivate players. he has always had a problem with changing mentality after a defeat.
    you guys are part of the problem we are in this mess as wenger feels no pressure to succeed. his job is not on the line and as such does not have the passion he should to manage our club

  • Doublegooner

    Just out of interest, whats the concensus here about Kronke & the way he’ running our club ?

  • DC

    I meant to say *long-term and self-sustained success*.

  • Mahdain

    a bit offtopic but that cunt piers morgan has finally got his behind get handed to him..he chose a wrong player to mess up with…the one and only DEEEEEEEEEEEEEENCH…frimmy is such a legend https://twitter.com/#!/Frimpong26AFC

  • Doublegooner

    bjtgooner:

    What makes you think ‘its a 1000 times worse for theteam & manager’ when we lose ?

    Why ? Perhaps you can enlighten me.

    And in my opinion, why should fans continue to back the team( & I do not mean booing) when certain players fail continually to put in a shift ?

    I have gone mad over the last few seasons at games when ceratin players have just strolled around the pitch.

    If you think its just someone like me who has never played the game then a certain Mr McLintock may enlighten you to together with quite a few other ex plqyers now making the same suggestions.

  • bjtgooner

    @Doublegooner

    Your reply does make me doubt that you are a fan.

  • Mahdain

    piers getting torn to shreds by frimmy with gooners fully behind him..serves that twat right after all the shit he spouts about Arsenal

  • bob

    Doublegooner,
    Why would you use this occasion to take the piss out of a council diversity officer? Are you against diversity? Are you Joey Barton?

  • DC

    @Mahdain,
    Great spot, Frimpong is gonna be an Arsenal legend! A true Gunner who’s a Gooner too and just the kind of players Arsene’s been trying to nurture within our club! He knows the real deal and has genuine Arsenal DNA and love in his make-up! That’s not the kind of player who’s gonna hide away limply when times get tough like alot of the current self-centred lot do!

  • DC

    @Doublegooner,
    Certain ex-players’ opinion are certainly valid (and we all know who of those are worth listening to and those that are not!) but I have to say that when the ex-players invariably played, the game was very different and the club was certainly more a part of their community and the players also felt part of that community too. Nowadays, particularly with the vast levels of wealth and celebrity lifestyle that follows the modern YOUNGER players, it is easy for them to be less devoted and committed with genuine desire for the club and therefore the community it belongs to! Ex-players would have understood that association and its significance and would have used it to motivate them more. Unfortunately, they see it alot in our current squad and they, rather simplistically, think that the Arsene Wenger should be able to make them understand this no-matter who they are!

  • DC

    I meant to say *unfortunately, they do NOT see it alot*

  • Shard

    I see I’ve caught the attention of a certain (im)poster on this site.. Yes.. We will win the league. Not this season. Maybe not the next. But we will win the league. So up yours you cunt..

    Walter..I think this match can put paid to the theory that referees put in better performances in the FA Cup.

    Now now..calm down children. I’m not saying our loss today is due to the referee. The fact remains that Webb is a disgrace and that he remains the PGMOL’s favoured referee says a lot.

    Coming to our performance, and ignoring the referee and the pitch, I think, with the injuries (which are also piling up with the pitch..ok ok..I said ignoring the pitch) we just aren’t that good. I mean we’re still a good side. But we aren’t VERY good at all. There is something missing right now. We need a boost, that’s for sure. We don’t seem to be creating as much as we should, and our defensive cohesion has gone with the regular injuries. Injuries are our biggest problem. The second biggest is the lack of a striker to partner/back up Van Persie. But yeah. Just like ManU’s ‘luck’ isn’t why they win, today I must say, despite the unlucky nature of the goals, it isn’t JUST that we are unlucky. We need to improve. But I think we will finish 4th. And if we beat the Spurs (which we will because I’ll be in the stadium), who knows..might even get to 3rd..

  • DC

    @Doublegooner,
    So to conclude, whether the players like Arsene Wenger or not, they ultimately are playing for the fans of our club.
    If this first-teamer that’s always “first on the team sheet” is a genuine professional who joined the club for the right reasons, (i.e. the tradition, history and the supporters) tell your friend to tell him (and he then tells the other dissenting players) that if AFC does not put up a strong and concerted fight for a CL spot this season, then i am very sure that the players themselves will be held very culpable and complicit for that failure by most of the genuine Gooners; myself being a very strong one of them!
    Arsene Wenger in all reality has nothing to prove to me in that he’s already achieved an unprecedented level of success for our club but this squad of players, and the dissenter that you’ve intimated at, has probably achieved F**k all so far in his career to be respected in any measurable way as a successful, top-class footballer!

  • Damien Luu

    @DoubleFaceGooner: If you HAVE EVER been a Gooner, you chose wrong club to support. Why don’t switch to Man Shitty? They have ALL the money and they can buy whoever or whatever they want and they can attract whatever morons that you called “top managers”. Top spenders, yes, they surely are. We, the Gooners, want and support a club that can exist and compete in top competitions by its own, living by its own means (not sure you can understand what it means), and doesn’t have to rely on some rich moron who wants to throw his money away or some mafia boss who only uses our club to launder his dirty money. We support AW because we know that he IS the best one, if not the only one, who CAN manage the club in THAT WAY, the way we want. He did it for 15 years. We don’t blindly support him just to support him or just because you, the morons but never know that you are morons, criticise him. We don’t need to criticise him any more because you always do that so well for us, and because HE always IS the first one to blame himself after some bad results.

    We knew from the beginning of the season that this would be a very difficult season. We lost some key players and we had to build a new team. Cunts like yourself had been absolutely sure that we would be relegate after we lost 8-2 to Man Urine, remember? Shockingly we ARE now at the fourth place, in the top four, yeah that’s it. So we certainly don’t say stupid things like you and make ourselves look like cunts like you after some bad results of our team. In “special” (ugly) conditions I may ask. We know that what this Arsenal team has achieved until now and will achieve at the end of the season is FAR BEYOND what you poisoned snakes expect, and even what we expected.

    Understand?

  • Nick Lee

    @Damien

    why the name calling for Manshitty and Man Urine? They have different approaches but bottomline, they are better than Arsenal.

    And why this talk of Arsenal DNA in players and all that. Players choose this profession and they are paid way way above what they would get if they go the job route. Whether they have the DNA, it is a bonus, I don’t give a damn. What is demanded is they play like they are paid for professionally.

    As for AW… I support the club. I leave it to AW to manage. He’s paid handsomely to do that. But as in all things, I, as a fan, would want post-season review and accountability

  • Nick Lee

    Constructive? its a matter of perspective.

    But seriously, if Untold really wants to be exclusive, it can go the private LAN mode. That way, any comments would be in line with the ‘support Arsene at all cost’ mode. And that is my perspective of this site and in all likelihood, go down as an unconstructive comment and be barred.

    Nick: abusive comments are moderated out, that’s all. We actually run a very lenient policy in regards to comments. Phil

  • Gunnerholic from India

    Being a fan of Arsenal since i was introduced to EPL in India (back in 1997-98..) I have seen Arsenal Grow and become Invincibles and then take the downhill path since we moved to the emirates.. I only have one thing to say.. NO ONE is above the Club. If Arsene’s hands are being tied down (according to those from Anti-Kroenke- Pro Usmanov brigade) Its time that the likes of the board members to open their eyes, get out of those director’s boxes and face the music… We need change in attitude. be it money or otherwise. If the reason for downhill performance is Arsene’s Hard-headedness (According to Anti-AW brigade) I’d say Thank you for all awesome memorable years, Thank you for players like TH14, RP7, FL8, PV4 and JL1… Question still remains, where are we going wrong? Being just 30 my knowledge of football management is as good as a novice.. but i feel the tactics, formation and off the ball behavior (which i presume is managed by pat rice)needs to be looked at. With all the gratitude and respect his game “book” is far too predictable. We need a new #2 under AW who can manage to come up with new ideas, adopt to different tactics depending on the type of opposition and understand when the formation needs to be changed.

    As a gooner I know we need to change somewhere. “where” is upto the men and women inside the boardroom to recognize and react to be more accountable(Ownership, Boardmemberships, Finance and Accounts, Managment, Medical Staff or Players)… cause unlike before, when we were contenders, we’ve been reduced to mere “participants” in the league.

  • Doublegooner

    Damien 666 Luu:

    Thank you for your detailed & very articulate response. It never crossed my mind that I chose ‘wrong club’, you make a good point, perhaps I’ll just ‘switch’ clubs & support ‘Man Shitty’, then I can watch all those highly paid players.

    In fact I should have chosen either of the two ‘Man’ clubs in the 1960’s when both were more successful than Arsene FC, sorry I meant Arsenal FC, but I didnt, because Arsenal & Me & my family were the perfect fit, it was part of my DNA.
    Understand ?

    Had I had the taken that advice, probably before you were born or even heard of the Arsenal I could have saved myself all those wonderful memories I’ve collected over the years, saved literally £000’s on seasons tickets, away & overseas travel costs, but I didnt because The Arsenal was part of my DNA.

    Understand?

    It never occured to me that we should be spending within our means, thanks you again Damien for enlightening me, even though I have never advocated the club conducting such idiotic practices. I have run my own businesses since 1984 and never spent more than I earned, but I always made sure I had the correct stock and the right quality to sustain ongoing sales & maintaining quality standards as I have always sold higher value goods. But once again thanks for reminding me.
    Understand ?

    However, as a businessman I have also avoided making the same mistakes time & time again like collecting a vast number of 2nd rate players & constantly rewarding them with contracts whereby we have around £1m amonth wasted on wages, & if I did, there would not be anyone to reward me with around £7m a year, unless success was judged by merely reducing a structured debt quicker than necessary, when the better ‘assets’ are annually sold off and ensuring the priority was filling the clubs bank account therefore increasing the value of Stan’s investment.

    Silly me. I have no right to question or criticise The Arsenal that has outseen my childhood, my teen years, affected my exam results, taken time off work for, outlasted a 17 year marriage.

    Lets see how much support you give to the next manager, because like any football club in case you didn’t know, there will be one.

    Alternatively you could back to not supporting the Arsenal like you probably did pre Arsene Wenger.

    Understand ?

  • Doublegooner

    One other point I’d like to state.

    Supporting a football club is not just about supporting the 11 players wearing the shirt, fans are also part of the history of the club, they help create it, they back the team. they let out their frustrations, they sing, they travel the globe supporting & wearing their colours even when a game is not being played.

    Old Trafford 2002, a flag was unveiled just before KO, it read ‘OLD TRAFFOLD CHAMPIONS SECTION’….It left hairs down your spine, it sparked ALL the fans to another level of song & 90 minutes of total exhausting rapture, the same was another banner shown banner captured on the final game in 2004.

    The club didnt print the flags, fans do what comes naturally, its not contrived, its real.

    Throughout a century of support fans will support without question & other times will question what goes on at the club, if they feel things are not right, and now 000’s are beginning to believe things are not right.

    They have a right to express their concern & ask questions.

    And I do not mean booing players.

  • DC

    @Doublegooner,
    I agree fans are the cornerstone of the club and have a right to criticise but it must be done with equality and an understanding that responsibility is not exclusively the domain of the manager!
    I have a list of players in my mind which are not, and have never been, Arsenal quality but because of our needs, they have had to be employed and incorporated into this perfenially disrupted rebuilding and club’s period of redevelopment.
    Wrt our friend, the “first name on the team sheet”, if he is who I think he is (and I’ve never ever understood why he always plays because he’s just not very good at the role he’s tasked with) then he has always been on my “not good-enough for Arsenal” list and his increasingly more ponderous and dilly-dallying performances have further clarified that this year. For me, he should have been dropped some time ago this season and at least 2 of the others youngsters who actually want to play for the manager and can play his position, be given a shot instead. He’s not, and never has been, as good as he thinks he is and yesterday, in the build up to the second Sunderland goal, he was fully to blame for his lack of positional and footballing intelligence, as he so often is! What’s more, he’s now one of the more senior players in that squad, along with another who also chooses to turn-up whenever he alone feels like it, and he should take more responsibility in organising the defence and the covering midfield just in front in the pivotal role that he plays rather than wait for Arteta, a recent newbie, to have to do it. He was massively culpable in what happened at the San Siro midweek!

  • DC

    *perennially*

  • DC

    Now you can say that Arsene bought him, etc, etc., but mental fortitude and a player’s own motivation from within (especially if you are now a senior player) cannot have you play and beat sides like Chelsea away and come back when 2 nil down against Villa to win 3 – 2, only then to perform ineptly as you on occasion do by regularly giving away cheap goals and particularly within minutes or seconds of you having just scored or just been in your opponents penalty area! That is all down to your own self ethics and sense of purpose and professional intelligence; not that of ANY manager nevermind Arsene Wenger!

  • Doublegooner

    DC:

    We may agree to disagree, at least you try & put a balanced argument from your own view & I assume your ‘Arsenalness’ goes back a while.

    I will never allow anyone to say to me’ I am not a real fan’ or go & support that lot or any whoever, especially coming from some overseas idiot who only started supporting the club when Wenger arrived.

    Anyway, the player I was refering to I doubt is the first name on the team sheet, but probably one or two after the first 🙂 I think you may know who I mean.

    Another problem imo, that Wenger has failed in is that in the same way Arsenal has been passed down from our forefathers to many of us, we have lost the old backbone of players in & around the club who have been able to pass that ‘Remember you play for the Arsenal’ mentality down the line. What with moving stadiums, it’s as if many players have no understanding of that history or passion of what it does mean.

    Thats why I find it very strange that Wenger has not introduced some of these characters to help him.

    Is he scared of change or threatened by it ?

  • neil

    Utterly deflating sums it up I think. Our players all seemed so low on morale it is unbelievable. The Milan defeat has crippled the confidence and whatever belief a lot of the players had left in them. Compared to last Saturday, a totally different mindset was on show and it proved costly. Take no credit from Sunderland, they were absolutely fantastic on the day. The likes of McLean tracking back all the way to their corner flag sums up the determination and will power the team had on the day, which quite often wins you games even if the opposition has a better team. Our team just seem to panic after Christmas year in year out, and the fact we’ve sold A LOT of experienced good players from the past (i.e. Gilberto) due to a stupid 30-year old rule has proven costly. In the past we had more experienced players like Vieira, Henry, Bergkamp to nurture the likes of Cesc and RVP; from which they have become such talented players. But does anyone believe the likes of Rosicky/Arshavin can have any positive influence on the likes of AOC/Miyaichi who are coming through? I for one doubt it. Our team has been chopped and changed too much over the last 7 years, which is not going to win us anything. The ‘Invincibles’ team played for several years together, hence they grew as a team. I know everyone is going to blame A.Wenger for everything, as often it is very easy to do so. But getting rid of him will only confirm the departure of RVP and possibly a few more of our key players. I believe something needs to change in the boardroom first before anything, and this followed by a re-vamp of the team. The next few games are going to sum up our season and possibly bring a premature end to it unless they player step up their games.

  • Stroller

    I have a fairly simple approach when it comes to judging accountability between the manager and the players.

    On the pitch, game by game, it’s the players with the prime responsibility to deliver. Yes, the manager picks the team and makes tactical changes but players who are paid small fortunes and are supposed to be at the top of their profession should be able to effectively implement what they are asked to do with 100% commitment.

    The manager should be assessed over a full season and not a half-season or a few games (whether things go well or badly). Before Christmas things looked relatively rosy after recovering from ethe bad start. Arsene Wenger was being praised for turning things around. Now after a second bad sequence everyone is calling for his blood. Who’s to say he won’t turn it around again? No, lets wait till May before making any final judgements.

    I could also talk about the board and the owners, but that’s another subject!

  • bob

    DC, Doublegooner,
    Your cat and mouse guessing game with respect to the unnamed traitor in the ranks is toxic. Please consider putting a stop to it now that its sprawled over here. It will spark a witch hunt, the last thing that any club needs and that this team needs now. (It takes two to tango and I implore you to stop this one or make it a private dance for your laptops only.)

  • Arvind

    Honestly yeah..it makes no sense trying to guess who it is. Takes me back to those old days when some ’25 year old’ pissed Gallas off and a lot of suspicion was on RVP. And then we went and beat Chelsea with 10 men with an RVP offside goal 🙂

  • bob

    Stroller,
    If you have actual light to shed on the goings on of board and owners as it effects play on the pitch, I wish that you would talk about the board and owners and provide facts, if you have them.

  • bob

    Nick Lee,
    This site allows everyone but false aliases with multiple entries on the same topic who fake a groundswell when it’s only one person’s rant (or perhaps some faker on someone else’s payroll. I know what it is to be barred from a website (and proud of it). This is not a censorship zone. It even let’s me do my thing. And, looks like it even lets you in. To suggest a private LAN is what’s preferred or ought to be shows how little you know about UA, and is sheer projection on your part. Is your posting so special that it comes near being barred for something special? Hardly. Here’s to UA. And through thick and thin. And Go Gunners!

  • DC

    @Doublegooner,
    Agreeing to disagree is fine and I do respect your views too as a devoted fellow Gooner who’s “Arsenalness” goes back a long way too!
    I’m sure, as i have, you’ve enjoyed and despaired at our ups and downs with equal measure over the decades, and we’ll continue to do so, as our children will, and theirs will, do too!

    Wrt the player, I know exactly who you mean and I can’t help but feel how ungrateful he is for he hasn’t contributed anything of note since he arrived at our club?! 😉

    The lack of incorporating true Arsenal stalwarts and greats into the first-team set-up, has always baffled me during Arsene’s redevelopment of our club! Thankfully, with the likes of Liam Brady in the youth set-up, those boys will have some modicum of understanding wrt our great tradition and history. Hopefully, Arsene has realised that now, with rumours of Steve Bould joining the first-team in a coaching capacity in the summer, and wants the same for the first-team!

  • DC

    @bob, Arvind,
    It doesn’t take a genius but just someone who reads and watches the performances of our players to put 2 and 2 together and make 4, if that’s what you want to do as I have!

    Don’t be so paranoid or naive in your assessment of some of our players’ personal motives and agendas! Not all of them are genuine and saintly as you like to paint them, nor do they have our club’s history and tradition within their heart! If they did, you would see that player give his-all every single second he wears that shirt! Can you honestly see that at the moment with ALL of the players, nevermind this one who we all know threatened to leave in January anyway? I don’t think so!

  • bjtgooner

    @DC

    Don’t forget if Steve Bould does join first team coaching staff he would be replacing Pat Rice – who was a superb player for Arsenal and has been a loyal servant over very many years. I would have thought Pat would have been deeply steeped in Arsenal’s history.

    You were responding to a comment made by Doublegooner, perhaps he led you into this one!

    However, this proposed change is still at the rumpour stage and surely we do not need to perpetuate further unsubstantiated rumour – we have had enough from Doublegooner.

  • DC

    @bjtgooner,
    Pat Rice has indeed been a loyal servant but he is due to retire soon, and almost did so at the end of the previous season.
    Steve Bould, or any other of that defensive era, would bring in much needed vigour and freshness to the coaching, akin to what SAF had done very prudently and successfully every 3 – 5 years, and a more defensively organised manner of thinking when we do not have the ball. I’m sure many of us would agree that that’s not Arsene’s true forte and some much needed new thinking and assistance would not be amiss!

    Rest assured, Doublegooner is not leading into anything that I have not myself noticed at first-hand or discussed with other Gooners down my local beverage establishment, but I have to say that any fan that has religiously been supporting a club as boy and then man, deserves some level of free expression as long as it is rational, objective and in context!

  • Doublegooner

    Bob:

    Calm down & keep taking the pills.

  • Doublegooner

    bjtgooner:

    I appear to be resposible for your blood pressure rising. Does the truth do that to you ?

  • bjtgooner

    @Doublegooner

    The blood pressure is fine; truth is fine.

    Peddling in unsubstantiated rumour is something normally associated with the AAA and gutter press, I don’t think it helps the club at this time or indeed at any time. You motive for sharing this rumour with us are as yet unclear. I would like to believe your claim that you are a fan and a gooner, but your comments don’t sell that to me.

  • dan

    @Sav from Australia

    Really and why????

  • Mandy Dodd

    LOL, The medias favorites (and possible the favorites of a few on here) have just been held by mighty Stevenage!

  • bob

    Doublegooner,
    “Take your pills,” Bob.
    Oh, Ok. Did you consult with the doctor on that advice; or are you also a doctor? (Ok, I need to trust this guys motivation and good intentions for the team. No need to ask for evidence. No, rumor alone is a good thing. Ok, I’m tryin’ to learn me lessins.)
    Thanks, mate, gotta bow to all that disappointment you learned from and five years of no one listening to you that AW must go. Take me pills. Alright, sir. My bad. Rumor good. Courage mean no names. Watch our meddies on Sky. Yessir. Takin’ my pills. You teach good.

  • bob

    p.s.
    Oh, and btw, Arsene said at yesterday’s press conference that his account of the reasons why competition is hard in England will be saved for another occasion. Whether or not you succeed in his removal, I long for that day and seriously doubt you could withstand the inside account should he choose to publicize it. Those truths would would make even your leathered hide crawl.

  • Arvind

    If AW ever writes a book…or says anything ever about all this..and I do think he will someday…I’d love to read it.

  • DC

    @Arvind,
    Like I’ve always thought, that book will be without doubt one of the most fascinating, and the most revealing wrt to English football, sporting biographies of them all!
    I truly hope he finally holds no punches in opening the Pandora’s box of darkness we know exists within English football!

  • Mandy Dodd

    Agree Arvind, was that comment about writing a book he made last summer some sort of veiled threat to some?
    As for the rumour / player, strange, things very quiet on the transfer situation with the player I assume you mean in question, in contrast to a couple others whose deals run out at a similar time.
    Still, as we all know, players will come and players will go this summer for a number of reasons, but while they are still in our squad, I back them 100% whatever rumours some wish to spread.
    So in reality, to me at least, the identity, or truthfulness of such rumours matter not a jot. If he stays, I back him, if he goes, I will certainly be backing his replacements, quite exciting players IMHO.

  • bjtgooner

    @Mandy Dodd

    Well put.

  • Mahdain

    as i said in previous posts double gooner is just an ITK with the aim of causing disruptions