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Understanding the Anti-Arsenal-Arsenal

By Tony Attwood

If you like to keep an occasional eye on the commentary columns of Untold you might have noticed that we have had something of an influx of comments calling the people who write for this site all sorts of names.  Some just sneering, some rather unpleasant.  Additionally there are few that you won’t have seen which were so unpleasant or so off topic that they broke the site rules, and so were not published.

Many of these people have become known, through an abbreviation that has been used on this site for a couple of years, as the AAA – the Anti Arsenal Arsenal.  People who claim to be Arsenal supporters but who are thoroughly against the club in its present form.   These people tend to be critical of players, management, directors and indeed other supporters.  A few of them attend matches, most don’t.

I really do limit the number of articles we publish about this little group and their activities, but as we haven’t looked at them for a while, and as we have had a few notes saying “what is the AAA?” after someone mentions them in a comment, I thought it might be helpful to do a little review of the AAA, their activities and their attitudes.

1. The Anti-Logic group

The AAA is fundamentally anti-logic.  If one says, “Looking at this you might agree that this was a well-refereed match or a poorly refereed match”, then with two options on the table you are already likely to lose them.   Likewise if one does a detailed analysis of a referee’s actions, or indeed those of a player, then again all this is bypassed.  What we get back tends to be abuse.

Of course some people do come along and debate the logic, and reach different conclusions, but these are not the AAA – for they are engaging in the concept of logic.  For the AAA, it is a case of conclusion first, and then a fair amount of abuse.  There is in fact no debate.

2. The Anti-evidence group

Rather like Aids deniers, Holocaust deniers, global warming deniers, white supremacists, and other such groups they do not rely on any evidence other than incidental issues.  So the Holocaust denier finds a report of a concentration camp in which the facts don’t quite add up, and use it to deny the total horror.  On a much smaller scale (and believe me I am using these examples merely to make the point, not because dealing with the issue of the AAA is as remotely as important as dealing with the arguments of the groups noted above) the AAA takes one player who is having a poor game, and then opens that up to suggest that the manager is an idiot.

The AAA are, I suppose, the inheritors of the position of the Catholic Church in 1615  when Galileo was brought before the inquisition.  Evidence was not an issue, it is not to be debated.  (OK, that’s not a serious comparison, but I think it makes a point).

3.  It is a conspiracy theory

The great constant mind-numbingly repeated argument of the AAA is that anyone who is not part of the AAA is a conspiracy theorist.  It is a measure of intellectual position of the AAA that they have not grasped that for there to be a conspiracy there needs to be lots of people working together plotting and planning.

If however we consider for a moment the issue of Moggi et al in the Calciopoli corruption scandal in Italy, the fact is there was no conspiracy.  Moggi and others independently had conversations with officials of Italian football to influence which referee got which game.

That is corruption, and criminal, but not a conspiracy because it evolved over time on a one by one basis.  If you want a conspiracy, (and if you know your British history) you might care to look at the Gunpowder Plot of 1605 in which a group of Jesuits planned to blow up Parliament.

That was a conspiracy, and explaining how the group attempted to kill King James I is the theory.

If we were to suggest that the PGMOL worked with certain clubs to ensure that bent referees take on certain games – that would be a conspiracy theory, and quite possibly we would be sued for libel.  But we don’t.  We say that the rather slack rules of the PGMOL don’t help the situation, and that if an English “Calciopoli” is taking place or were to take place, then the way PGMOL is run will make it harder for anyone to catch the club involved.

So people who support the Untold view that the PGMOL is open to the same type of corruption as happened in Italy are not conspiracy theorists – if anything we are people who analyse the way in which PGMOL works, and suggest that the structural organisation leads it open to corruption.

It is the fact that the AAA fail to understand this point that is probably the largest downfall in their argument.

4. Abuse is the key characteristic

Without logic and an understanding of argument abuse is the central point of the AAA.  There is of course no AAA central command or organisation, although they do have a few blogs, some of which do carry interesting and well-argued commentaries, but their approach to anyone who does not agree is abuse.   This is in contrast to an approach which says, “here’s an argument, here’s some evidence, and now let us debate this rationally.”

Of course football support is not rational – I support Arsenal because my parents and grandparents supported Arsenal, and having been born and brought up in north London my choice was either to defy the family and support Tottenham, be really perverse and support Orient, or follow the family with Arsenal.  I chose the latter – no logic, just emotion.

But I have always known many Tottenham fans, Man U fans etc etc etc, and I have always been able to discuss openly with them the issues surrounding my club and their clubs.  I love finding out what these hard core supporters who like me now travel huge distances to see games, think of their managers and players.

The AAA don’t seem to be able to move between the passion of the terraces (as it used to be) and normal civilised debate and discussion.  If they ever go to dinner parties (which I suppose they don’t) the result must be bizarre.

5. A simple change will solve everything

Simplicity is the AAA game.  Change the manager and everything will be fine.  No other factors need to be taken into account – that is it, one change fixes it all, and if you don’t see that then you are a moron.

To the AAA the world is a simple place, and I suspect they genuinely cannot understand why everyone doesn’t agree with them.

6.  Football has not changed

Following point five, the AAA believe that nothing much has changed in football of late.  So, the notion that Arsenal used to be able to go out and buy obscure young players from around the world and turn them into stars within a year, but now can’t, because every other club is doing it, doesn’t really come into their logic.  The fact that two clubs in the Premier League can buy anyone and everyone they want, and so take our best players, doesn’t come into it.  The fact that if Arsenal make an enquiry for a player, there is every chance the selling club will instantly call other teams and say, “Arsenal are in for him – would you like first chance” in order to make more money, doesn’t come into it.  The fact that tapping up is now widespread and not stopped by the FA, League or anyone else, is ignored.

The fact is that if one accepts any of these points, then it is clear that a simplistic change of the manager is not enough.

Of course one could argue that Mr Usmanov could come in, with a new manager, and take on the rich kids at their own game – which is at least an argument, although it still has to deal with the tradition of the club, and the fact that there is still just a chance that the FFP rules might come into effect next year, and the dangers of having a single benefactor.

7.  Judge everything by the last match; judge every transfer by one example

Simplicity and the AAA go hand in hand.  If one player has a poor patch there is no suggestion that he should be allowed to play through his problems – as players have done for 100 years, and has happens at other clubs.  No, he should be out.

The problem is that every player has a poor patch, no one is perfect all the time, and the way they come out of it is through playing.  I can remember poor games from even Dennis Bergkamp.  I can remember Thierry Henry having a poor run.  And certainly if we had measured him in this way, Robin VP would have left years ago.

Likewise every transfer is seen as simplicity.  If Mr Wenger acts like every manager in every club since league football began and sometimes brings in a player who doesn’t make it, then he must go.  Forget all the great players.  Forget the way that virtually unknowns like Koscielny come through to the match winners.  Forget the failure that was Henry.  Forget Bergkamp – the laughing stock of Italian football before we got him.  Forget the extraordinary transfer of Arteta, and his success.  No, one failure, and that’s it.

8.  The club is badly run

This AAA argument comes up with all sorts of amazing things – from the directors taking funds out of the club (they don’t), to that amazing story in which we signed a goal keeper from Argentina only to find when he got here that he was only five feet six inches tall.  Or the one about a member of our current squad who simply refuses to train.   “You’d think they would have checked this out first!”

The AAA approach is to say these stories often enough, with no real backup evidence, and then they become true – but of course they are not.

These are just stories.  Anyone can make up stories, and the AAA do it a lot.

9. False names

Many AAA activists have multiple email names and addresses and we often find one person posting under different names.  We have even found them having conversations with themselves.   ABC says “The problem with the team is our chronic midfield – we should not have let Nasri go,” and DEF says, “I am so glad you have had the nerve to say that – a lot of people I know think the same, but the blogs are afraid to print this.”   GHI comes in with “Wow, at last, somewhere where the truth is being told…”

So it goes; but they are all the same guy.

10.  Cut and paste

This is perhaps the annoying face of the AAA – taking an article from an AAA blog, and reposting it to all the non-AAA blogs as if it were original.  What can you say about such practice?

So, there it is: the AAA.  Not really that important, but rather like the neighbours, quite noisy.   Fortunately there is a fairly large number of blogs that exist to counter their rather silly approach, and by and large Untold doesn’t have much to do with them.

Last time we talked about them a couple of people wrote in and suggested that we were taking a superior view, claiming the right to define debate, while others suggested we were fixated by them.   I don’t think either are true – but of course it is up to each person to decide.

But for once I have been rather grateful to them.  Untold has been hovering just under half a million hits a month on our “OneandOne” analysis of the site’s progress, and I think all the interest the AAA has paid to us of late has taken us over that magic number.  I’ll know more in a few days.  It is interesting because the more hits the site gets the further we go up the rankings and so the more people who are seriously interested in debating issues find out about us.  So maybe the AAA have for once done us a good turn.

Anyway, that is the AAA for a while.  Time to move on to something else.  Like…

 

104 comments to Understanding the Anti-Arsenal-Arsenal

  • JamesT

    Worst Arsenal blog ever.

  • Alansmithisgod

    A simple question. I am an Arsenal fan of 40 years standing who thinks that it is time to change the manager.

    Does that make automatially make me a member of your ‘AAA’? Or does it make me somebody who is able to independantly form my own opinions based on a reasoned . Or am I tarred with a particular brush just because I don’t buy into your own particular world view?

  • llama

    Hey look, it’s JamesT, the Spurs supporter without a job or a life!

    Great post, and extremely true, especially the ‘abuse’, ‘simplicity’ and ‘generalise from one example’ areas. In other news, M’Vila? Simple awesome if true :). Would let Song take a more forward pivot role.

  • llama

    ^Lol nvm, his post got deleted :).

  • dev

    hmmmm You are talking rubbish as usual. this is not an arsenal blog its love wenger no matter what he does blog..are you been paid by wenger or peter hill wood?

  • GoonerDave

    Excellent article. Im delighted to see some common sense on a blog!
    Recently, I posted an opposing view on an anti-Wenger blog. I was polite and my points were articulated properly. The result? Insults from all and sundry, offensive comments, almost hatred. Ironically, the blog in question had a motto – ” a blog where you can have an opinion, not get one” which I found hilarious. Its just a pair of fans who are in a bubble of importance generated by their ill-informed readers. A blog supposedly run by Arsenal fans, yet the inhabitants actually wait for somebody to disagree so they can be rude and offensive like a bullish mob.
    I tried a further 3/4 times to comment on said blog. I never once used bad language or insulted anybody, but now my IP address has been banned. A mini dictatorship? Censorship?
    Propaganda?
    Probably just immaturity, but very counter productive and extremely dishonest.
    Well done to this blog and the others who actually encourage reasonable debate, whatever the view.
    The rest will be found out eventually.

  • CB

    Wenger out!!!

    End of.

    Glad this site agrees, you’d have to be a tw*t not to….

    Do I have to add a :)?

  • Gooner Dave, you were lucky. One of their ploys is, or has been (I don’t go there so I don’t know if they still do it) to take a comment that they don’t like, and change it so that you appear to have said something else.

    Their concept is that “1984” is not a warning, but a blueprint on how to run a blog.

  • Dave

    The way soem fans run down the club, and yet they expect “Messi” to want to leave “Barcelona” and join us for less money because they are fans. Why on earth would Torres want to join Arsenal to get booed. Why would m’Vila want to come and get booed. We will only get tough players like Podolski who dont’ read the media and or care what the media write.
    If you read the reaction to last weeks game you would think we were being relegated! I would rather be gooner than a spud or a pool supporter.
    All we really lack is a few stronger type midfielders, like Arteta is, if he was not injured. Maybe even a Denilson type ball posessor. I even wonder if Vermalen may do better as a DM with Song, in front of Per and Kol.
    Note how much we improved when Chamakh came on on Sat, suddenly we more in the game, our wingers are small and quick but not imposing enough. If we supported Chamakh, encouraged him , he may start producing, if we treated “Messi” like Chamakh what would become of “Messi”. Lets not treat our club like Blackburn supporters do, do want Ashley young or Jordan Henderson, who really says that M’Vila will make us win the league, I think maybe Arteta was more to our need. I doubt keeping Fab and Nasri would have improved our season. It looks like we are better this year position wise anyway.
    Was Arsene at fault for our fullback issues, imagine if he had not bought anyone, all his buys were good and the players fitted in.
    Come on support the team I say!

  • Dev – thank you for proving my point. I set out logical arguments and points that might be discussed and you answer it with “You are talking rubbish as usual”.

    I rest my case./

  • Alansmithisgod – no, being someone who thinks we should change the manager does not make you part of the AAA. It is a point that can be debated logically – we can look at the names of potential candidates for the job, whether they would like to come to this club, how well they would work in the transfer market, whether they would win over the supporters, their style of play, their chances of success given the financial situation of Man City and Chelsea, whether they have the knowledge of obscure players or players who are lacking in form that we could bring in without City or Chelsea taking them first… we can debate all that . And if your view is that this or that manager would do better, then fine. Of course there is no problem.

    The AAA have the views I outlined in the article – if you don’t then you would never in a million years be mistaken for one of them.

    I would just be careful of one thing. “I’ve been an Arsenal supoprter for 40 years,” is a typical AAA opening. It is a bit like when we published a piece about the nature of proof, we had people writing in claiming to have been scientists for 40 years!

    (I’d add a smiley face if I could work out how to on this computer).

  • Gooner64

    Good article. I’ve been reading your posts for a while and while I don’t always agree with you your point of view it’s always well put. I’ve been an Arsenal fan since 1969 and a lot of these AAA’s get right on my nerves but what can you do reasoning with most of them is pointless. Anyway here’s to beating West Brom on Saturday.

  • marcus

    Maybe you should have post-match ref therapy , I mean ref analysis, Tony

    At least that way some people will have to hide their blue and white scarves away

    Untold TV

    http://googleblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/google-hangouts-on-air-broadcast-your.html

  • Dave

    Ok gooner64 we started supporting the same year.
    So you want a new manager, well Pep wont come, nor Jose, we may get Fat Sam or maybe Martin o’Neil, Kean should be available soon, or how about Mick Macarthy, even Fabio’s now interested? Get real you guys who want Wenger out, I guess there may be 5 people on earth who could do an equivalent job to Arsene. None would come to Arsenal.
    Do you really believe that the Arsenal players on saturday wanted to lose? If Songs first assist to RVP was intercepted and Norwich scored would he have been crucified for it. Come on, if his last pass was an assist for RVP he may have been man of the match. Even Fab missed some passes.
    Thank God we did not buy Reina last year, even slap stock Ches is better. We all seem to think the grass is greener on the other side, that other players are better than ours, we all wanted Samba , Cahill, Dann – I think we did better.

  • WalterBroeckx

    I think I have seen more Norwich supporters on Untold telling us what a great team and manager we have and how third place is ours to take and how happy we should be, than I have ever seen done by so called Arsenal supporters on that website GoonerDave was talking about in the time I was so stupid enough to visit it and think I could give my opinion.

  • colonel mustard

    By changing the title to “Understanding the Anti-Arsene-Arsenal” it becomes easier to understand. The club needs a new helmsman. Wegner is descending into self parody (much like this blog) and is incapable of winning trophies as if the way the club performed it business last summer was’nt proof enough. When we criticise Wegner, include Gazidis staff and board for appalling handing of transfers.

  • Alansmithisgod

    Thanks Tony thats fair enough. I love Arsene Wenger, just like I love George Graham (sadly I dont remember Herbert Chapman, but I love him too!) but I think it is realistic to conclude that, after 16 years, we really have seen the best of him. Even his body language these days would worry me. Managers pass their sell by dates – its like death and taxes, a say inevitability, and I think very few of us take any pleasure in it. Obviously you consider that he still has much to offer, but there is no harm in disagreeing about that. The club moves on, one way or the other and probably sooner rather than later, that will be without Arsene.

    The only thing I would question you on is this. Is it really a good idea to coin (or, if it is not your creation, promote the use of) ths AAA thing? And I mean the exact same thing about the stupid ‘AKB’ thing? It may very well be that the AKB tag was created by the Wenger out croud first, but, even then, is the promotion of its use not dreadfully counter productive? As I said, at the very latest, in the next 4 years or so, we are all going to be a supporter of the Arsenal in a post-Wenger world. Is basing support for the club on its manager, for both sides of the argument, not an extraordinarily divisive thing, given that the manager is a transient employer? The vitriol, (and in fairness it comes from both sides), over the issue of the manager is really sad to see, and I wonder if it is a creation of the internet, where it is easy to be insulting and hide behind an avatar.

    I remember the last days of the Graham era, when there were similar pro and anti camps, but we all had a laugh together in the pub. We were all one band, discussing intenal issues amongst ourselves, but presenting a unite front to the rest of the world. I am slightly worried that the existance of websites with entrenched views is going to make the futre of Arsenal a very difficult time, not just for any new (and indeed the current) manager, but more importantly for the fans. Civil war wounds never heal.

    And dont worry about the smiley face – for some of us of a certain generation, getting the on-switch of the PC is a triumph every day!!

  • colonel mustard

    WalterBroeckx – not when you charge worlds highest ticket prices and hoard transfer money.

  • head

    I agree with some (about 30-40%) of Untold’s comments regarding a minute percentage of Arsenal fans who show consistent negativity regarding the club’s operation.

    In general, however I believe that the phrase ‘Anti-Arsenal-Arsenal’ is a convenient label for those who do not believe that Wenger, our current board or our current club structure at AFC is irreplaceable.

    The fact, for example that Arsenal have recovered so well from our torrid start to the season does not excuse it, nor does it excuse the debacle of a transfer window that was Summer 2011.

    Your so called ‘Anti-Arsenal-Arsenal’ (an oxymoron if ever the was one) simply represents the fans who realise that Arsenal are a top European club who should be winning trophies on a regular basis. 7 years is nowhere near regular enough for a club like Arsenal.

    Yes, we could roll out the excuses of changes in the modern game, financial pressure et al. These could be used to explain away our current club situation.

    But us so called “AAA’s” differ in one important aspect: ambition.

    Even the most diehard AKB cannot argue that significant failures in both short-term and long-term planning have been not occured at AFC over the last few years.

    The so called ‘Anti-Arsenal Arsenal’ are simply us Gooners who demand success for our club- and when this fails to occur, have the cajones to demand change.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Colonel,
    did you know we did a series of articles about comparing ticket prices world wide (last year I think?) And the PL has high prices but compared to others we were not the worlds highest ticket prices

  • Dan

    It’s true that since our doubles under Wenger we have got a lot of crappy new fans. Combine that with a lot of the whinging losers from before and it creates this type of Arsenal ‘fan’ where they make money off the internet slagging off the club. Lots of these blogs online and it makes me sick. Nothing wrong with critiscing the club on occasion, when deserved, but many of these blog sites are like a disease to the club we love. Complete assholes. Thankfully they are only the loud minority.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Head,

    demanding change is fine.

    Just tell us how we will be successful:
    – new manager: who
    – new players: who
    – who is paying?

    …. what if the FFP comes in to work?

  • Alansmithisgod

    I’ve just realised my Avatar on this site looks exactly like me…..

  • @Alansmithisgod – LOL, it’s a sign!

  • Pete

    What a bloody fantastice blog. Could not agree more. I am fed up with these (as you etrm them) AAA supporters being so short sighted. You are so right when you mention as soon as the team have a bad game the knee jerk reaction is for the AAA to demand that Wenger is sacked!!!

    I even read a blog yesterday that even blames Wenger for the new 2012/2013 kit (not too keem myslef but it’s growing on me) and demanded why he didnt listen to the fans.

    What is wrong with these people!!!!?????

    Do they honestly think that Wenger has a say in the kit design or any of the commerical decisions that the club make? The answer is no. I sit on the supporters forum who meet up with the club directors 3 times a year. Some of the AAA would learn alot form these meetings & maybe, just maybe they would realise that everybody at the club has the common goal – making Arsenal FC the best club in the world.

    I was brought up to believe that you support your team through thick & thin and when i started watching them in the 1970’s there was plenty of thin believe me! I beleive that the club are on the right track & with two, maybe three top draw signings and a bit more luck on the injury side then we have a squad that will push Manchester all the wayy next season.

    Great post, goood to know that intelligent, balanced support is still going strong!

  • Bradster

    I’m a not on either side supporter but thanks for clearing up what an AAA is. I think you’ll also find the AAA’s weren’t supporting Arsenal before the Wenger era and too used to been on top. They might not know how Arsenal struggled in the 80’s and how boring boring Arsenal came about.
    I don’t like either side’s attitudes, Wenger is not a God that needs a pedistal, he makes mistakes and is human. Managers are judged on their results on the field, not the clubs finances. I agree it needs to be protected and the club has done that well and I understand why they can’t buy the world’s best, however, I’ve also seen what smart managers can do too. I’m impressed with Moyes, O Neil, Pardew, Di Matteo (not struggling but well managed) and Martinez.
    I’ve always said give a manager a full season, at the end of the season, if not happy with the results then replace him in the off season. My verdict on Wenger is he did just enough to keep his job and see what next season brings.

  • nicky

    As much as one despises the AAa (don’t dignify the body by giving it a capital letter) many so-called fans of our Club do not deserve to be called that, after the booing, exasperated groans and abuse displayed this season, particularly at the Emirates.
    There have been occasions when such poor atmosphere has clearly spread on to the field of play, a quite indefensible state of affairs.
    We have one last chance to possibly avoid “relegation” from the CL by winning on Sunday. Defeat would strengthen the case of doom and gloom merchants of the AAa to get rid of our Manager, spend foolishly on all and sundry and turn our Club into a “sugar daddie’s paradise”.
    Over this final week, let us concentrate on giving 100% support to the squad during their preparation, by word of mouth and by our comments on these sites…..and continue for the 90 minutes on Sunday.
    We must demolish the weak and feeble arguments of the AAa once and for all and banish their negative attitude elsewhere to sow discord within our national game.

  • Doublegooner

    Mr Attwell.

    I disagree with much of what you write, but do post here from time to time. It will be pointed out by some of your followers,often after a series of poor results.

    I’ve been accused here of being what you call an ‘AAA’ & occasionally insulted. That doesn’t bother me & I don’t bother lowering myself by doing the same, possible a little cynically reply may surfice !

    To the many Arsenal people who know me,even those who do not share my Arsenal views, if they knew I was being called ‘Anti Arsenal’, they’d gulp in utter amazement !!. Like you I’m 3rd generation of season ticket holders from the 1930’s, first going myself since 1966 continuously to current day, home & away.

    If I have an opinion that criticises the manager, his tactics or feel I have a grievance against the way the club is run, I have MY RIGHT to do so.

    Whether you want to block me or not on your blog ….IS YOUR right..

    One thing it does not do is make me what you call ‘Anti Arsenal’.

    Should anyone continue to do so, then they are welcome to meet me face to face & repeat those words…

    Problem is, most fans on blogs never visit the games or have been supporting the club since they believe it begun in september 1996.

  • UmBongo

    Why was my comment deleted!? There are traits of the religious fanatic in using logic to confirm the illogical… was it the link to another blog? Can I just say it?

    The Marble Halls is the most analytical, well-written blog I have come across. I never plug anything, but this guy is a breath of fresh air, witty and deserves the attention. You’d like it, Tony.

  • colonel mustard

    Hi Walter,

    I think the point is if you are willing to charge very very expensive tickets by any standards you must expect this to reflect in the quality on pitch. You must admit that huge mistakes were made last summer. The signing of Podolski so early (we never do this) and possibly others is a tacit admission of getting it wrong. anyways not here to be cheeky or insult but just saying this is where I stand. Aside from bringing in quality there a lot of scope for improvement in tactics – a huge Wegner blindspot over last few seasons.

    Dan, I think you will find there is fans with a deep love and connection to the club who feel this way. This is a sentiment building up over 6 seasons. Our implosions at times are breathtaking. We tell Wegner to strenghten and he refuses at cost of league titles. Our best players leave and we keep the money in bank. We panic buy after being drubbed 8-2. We leave our best player go on the cheap out of sentiment. We sell to the probable league winners and direct competitiion abroad. There is a deep mismanagement or ineptness at team and board level. When the AST, a fairly level headed group is saying this its proof enough. Wegner is living in cotten wool. scrape 3 or 4th you are good.

  • Arselicked

    Thanx for the post Mr Attwood.

    The way they behave is really sad. Sometimes it remind of that guy in Eminiem’s song – ‘Stan’, and Micheal Douglas in the film ‘Falling down’. How can an Arsenal fan wish the club to fail just so that the manager gets fired? Why would somebody who loves the club that dearly wish it to lose its best assets?

    Its a strange kind of logic and it defies common sense.

  • Aussie Scott

    These scumbags only ever come out when we are in a poor run of form.
    Cretins,the lot of them.

  • duc

    I dislike the premiss of the article very much. It reminds me of Bush’s “You’re either with us or against us speech”. There should always be room for legitimate debate. I live in France and here, the questioning of the details of the Holocaust by Academics is illegal. It is the only point in history to be fixed. I find that outrageous. And there is a steady stream of people being sent to gaol for questioning it. Are you suggesting something similar here? The lumping together of criticism with fabrication is disingenuous to say the least. Godwin’s law springs to mind.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Colonel Mustard,

    http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/10300

    is where you can see comparing ticket prices in Europe.

    Repeating we pay the highest prices in the world doesn’t make it a fact.

  • Johnb

    Doublegooner.. Not sure how you can say you are not anti arsenal….unless there is someone else with the same glory hunting name, you must be ther person that is trying to organise a march against our club, make banners for free slagging of our club. I find your hypocrisy amazing.

    However we should not be worried as us proper fans will support arsenal through thick and thin

  • AFCThick/Thin

    Decent article but two points.

    The Calciopoli thing can be considered a conspiracy. Def: “An agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.”

    The media/entertainment industry (the movie of the same title – “conspiracy theory”?) have done well to shape this notion most people have when it’s really quite simple.

    And secondly a note about global warming. Yes the earth does periodically heat up and cool down, only it has nothing to do with humans. Google “climategate”.

    See also: http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/007/earth-day.htm

    Bear in mind if that link seems unrealistic – that’s exactly what some people including the AAA feel about this site. They are well researched and quote all of their sources.

  • koye

    The latest is wanting Song cleared for M’Vila. These are the same people that constantly complain of Arsene always having a thin squad.

  • colonel mustard

    Current hightest ticket price is £100. not £66. just sayin

  • JohnbIgballs

    I guess difference of opinions make football…..just nice to have ones that support the club.

    There are enough Aaa in the press, we don’t need to fuel them…as I said Doublegooner I bet you may have been going for years but in the nice cosy seat in the east upper or corporate sections

  • otariq

    @Alansmithisgod, your comment does not make you AAA, but than give us your reasoning and a solution. Who would you want as the Manager to replace Wenger and keep Arsenal in the top four or challenge for a trophy on the current budget we have as a club?

  • Dan T

    I hate the fan segregation into two groups like this. I wish you didn’t use the term AAA on this site and I wish others didn’t use the term AKB. By segregating people into named groups like this I can’t help feeling that it only intensifies the animosity between the sets of fans.

    I guess I am somehwere in the middle. I like Wenger and generally support him. However, he does leave me incredibly frustrated at times (last summers dealings being the 1st that springs to mind). Having said this I cannot think of somebody who would be a better manager at Arsenal and I will still support him, the players and the club through their mistakes.

    I think eveybody is entitled to their opinon on the manager and some may not be very good at backing up their opinion but this doen’t bother me too much. Where I draw the line is some people (admittedly a small minority) actually wanting Arsenal to lose games just so they can be proved right in their opinion of Wenger! This I find dispicable…And they have the cheek to call Wenger stubborn.

    If I didn’t have work to do I would also be ranting about those who boo and destroy the confidence of our players. Particularly those like Ramsey who puts huge effort in and has had a very unfortunate last 2 years.

  • iniez

    I read this on the AAA flagship le grovel and found it hilarious:
    “An interesting thing I’ve noted is how many of the pro-Arsene types seem to hate the fact we’re signing big. They’ve generally been the people saying we’re wasting £20mill on M’Vila and that Podolski is average. Jeez… lighten up. The same people said that about Arteta and Yossi in the summer.”
    I would go ahead and dissect how wrong this statement is but cmon..

  • marcus

    The root of the problem is the bottom line.

    For many supporters its silver.

    For Wenger, its several things

    Brand Identity
    Entertainment
    Financial Health
    And
    Silver

    I think Wenger simply pays the price of having a broader vision than some fans.

    Sad really.

  • Stuart

    I have to admit, I do find it amusing to occasionally write on the blog where you can ‘have an opinion, not get one’ and wait to see what opinions I get.

  • marcus

    Having followed this blog for some two or three years, I have come to the conclusion that the problem for Arsenal is the same problem for all of football.

    Its structural to the way clubs are run.

    Because the fans feel detached from their clubs, (without ownership), they feel powerless and angry.

    (Man U fans actually protested this quite vehemently)

    Furthermore, clubs like Man C/U Chelsi simply have bought success.
    Players are paid stratospheric wages..which just bear no relationship to the life of the ordinary supporter.

    A solution might be something along the lines of the Government annulling the status of all the clubs, and then reforming the clubs along the lines of John Lewis, with supporters given the option to buy shares, reap dividends, and have a real say in the “Company”

    Likewise buying a season ticket should come with an automatic share allocation.

    With this sort of structure the AAA/AKB debate could be swiftly resolved. Put it to the vote….

    And then if you really felt aggrieved about the direction of your team, flog your shares and move on.

    Just a few ideas

  • goooner

    Hi Tony,
    great article and I agree with most of it. I do wonder though if Le Prof would have signed Bergkamp (he was quite pricey iirc) had he been in charge when we got him.
    I always say Rioch made two good decisions, the 1st was signing DB10, the second was leaving…

  • marcus

    Obviously you would cap share ownership percentages to avoid outright ownership, and you would guarantee a certain minimum percentage for fans. (e.g 80%)

    The only drawback is in ten years time we would have

    “The Apprentice Manager-Guru”
    with AMS looking for someone to lead Spurs out of the economic and footballing wilderness

  • Duc – I am not suggesting that at all, and have no desire to stop debate on anything. The whole point I am making is that the debate has to be based on logic and reason, with evidence to back up all points, rather than mere abuse.

    I’ll give you a totally different example: chiropractors. In the UK the chiropractors were going round making incredible assertions to the effect that they could “cure” all sorts of things – including genetic illness, coughs, torn ligaments, you name it.

    This group was taken on by a very active set of medics who copied their web sites, reported them to the advertising standards authorities, and demanded that they prove their claims before making any more. That dealt with them.

    Chiropractors still work in the Uk, and many people say they do a lot of good, but they can no longer make all these wild claims. They have to respect the notion of experimental proof before they sell their services – and that is all to the good.

    No, I don’t want to make any opinion illegal, I am just seeking to show how one group of people push their views without using proper logic and argument.

  • Unbonbo your comment was not deleted. If you are joining in a debate you really ought to look at the rules of the site and see what happens.

    All comments from people who have not commented before, or which include links to other sites are held for moderation. This site has 4 active moderators but we all have full-time jobs so moderation is not a 24 hour business.

    I have gone back and looked at your earlier comment, and quite possibly I would have let it through when I got to it (it has after all only been held in moderation for a couple of hours) but because you have drawn particular attention to it, I have decided not to. The point you make is a perfect example of what the whole article was about: pure assertion, and abuse leading to a link to another blog.

    You argue that “There is something akin to the religious fanatic in the illogical use of logic presented here”. That is a strong statement to make, but you have made no effort to explain your point. And that is my whole point – the AAA is full of people who just make up statements like that with no explanation, no theory, no evidence, no nothing.

    I am sorry that I was not able to make my point clear enough to you so that you would not write such a statement without any backup.

  • And_Arsene_Said...

    @marcus
    Very well and concisely put. Just how many managers would have the ability (and selflessness?)to actually implement this vision knowing it is a massive task, especially in these relatively early years, for the benefit the club for decades after.

  • BobbyP

    Great blog guys

    Tony

    Arsenal goals conceded has gone from 37, 41, 43, 47 despite the fact that the opposition have the ball for maybe 30-35% of a typical game. Our pressing is hugely inconsistent and some times nowhere to be seen and yet the same high line is employed. I love Mr Wenger but i know a huge amount of anger he receives is due to his complete inability to turn a very average defense around.

    Look at other sports, a manager given continuity should be improving the side in this respect not making us worse year on year.

    After 2009-10 we finished 11 points off top. Our response was to buy Koscisllny, Squilaci and Chamaack. Kosciellny has been very good this year but still fails with the offside trap the other 2 have been poor signings and will almost certainly be sold.

    Much of the proceeds from Toure and Adebayor was spent on improved contracts for players who have been sold or have shown very little in the proceeding years. For a club in our position we cant afford failures like that.

    Our transfer dealing last summer were nothign short of awful. As a club we were bullied by players who intentions were clear to everyone else bar our own management.

    These are genuine mistakes by the management which need to be answered.

  • duc

    Thanks Tony. I see your POV. The chiropractor story had passed me by and is quite shocking I agree. TBH, I’m probably guilty of overreacting as I am critical of the present state of affairs at AFC and didn’t want to be lumped with the tag of loony! LOL. All the best.

  • David Roberts

    As a long time follower, admirer and proselytizer for this blog and its views on refereeing, please consider you may be wrong about global warming. The real world evidence for catastrophic anthropogenic global climate change, what a mouthful, is much weaker than that, for the refereeing anti Arsenal bias.

  • Mike

    Sadly I fear there are a proportion of supporters who suffer from a societal disease which manifests itself in the desire for instant gratification. This is something that has grown over the past few decades and doesn’t only affect football but can be seen permeating everything around us. There is ample evidence of this, more latterly by the increase in numbers of Chelsea and Man City fans; in the 90’s by the increase in Arsenal fans; and throughout history by the number of Man U shirts that exist in the world.

    The finest example of a ‘plastic’ was when I and two other neutrals sat in a pub watching a Man U v Liverpool game during which two people wearing Man U shirts popped in from playing pool in another room to ask what the score was!!!

    The desire to be associated with ‘success’ is overwhelming for some people and when this success isn’t forthcoming for whatever (logical) reason, they demand radical change irrespective of what the alternative might be. You are right in that these people too have every right to their opinion but many seem to miss your point that in order to have any validity there needs to be some reasoned argument. Instead, in many (but not all) cases the argument is buy Messi, keep Fabreags, sack Wenger etc., etc.,

    And by the way, I too had my first season ticket in the 60’s and still have one now.

  • marek

    I like the article, but not the examples used – in fact they seem counter-productive:

    1. AIDS (acquired immune deficiency syndrome) used to be called GRID (gay-related immune deficiency) early on – because according to the then-current science, the disease seemed to affect gays only.

    2. “Global warming”, to my knowledge, is no longer proper nomenclature. It is called “climate change” now – no need to prove “warming” any more, any change will do nicely. Back in the 70s, global cooling was all the rage, because according to the then-current science, Earth was about to enter another ice age.

    3. White supremacists exist, but so do black supremacists, brown supremacists, yellow supremacists etc. – why mention just one?

    4. In the trial of Galileo, analyzing evidence was very much front and center. It was the Catholic Church which defended the then-current scientific views (based on the works of Aristotle) , and it was Galileo who was asked to prove that his claims (based on the relatively new works of Copernicus) are correct. Current scientists would of course tell us that both views are wrong.

  • BobbyP

    Mike

    Never underestimate the desire for football fans to see their club moving in the right direction also.

    Dont forget that our manager is paid double what that lot up the road pay their manager and yet over the last 3 seasons theirs points totals are incredibly similar despite us paying upwards of 30-40% higher wages year on year.

    Utd appear to get great value for money from their manager considering what they spend…………we dont anaymore

  • Stuart

    BobbyP

    I sure you also didn’t forget that in this time we have been funding a new stadium costing circa £390 Million

  • bob

    BobbyP,
    Your first lament ignores a few factors that a serious analysis would at least have to consider and weigh: How many of this season’s 47 goals came in the first 5-6 matches and why might that have been? How many clean sheets did we have so far? How many matches had to be played with no fullbacks – not one – due to injury? How many broken legs did Sagna receive? Did Per Mertesacker recieve? What about Santos injury? And Gibbs being out? And Arteta’s removal as a balancing factor? And more. Yes, there are problems, but there are more factors of substance to consider than citing 47 goals to cap it off. I think there’s been a turnaround in progress that’s been in no small part de-railed by such factors.

  • bob

    David Roberts,
    Consider that you are a global warming denier.

  • Cape Gooner

    Tony, I have a problem with Arsenal supporters in general, not just the AAA.

    I have just listened to Fans Forum, the 90 minute phone in that Arsenal does on a Monday night which is then available as a podcast. At the beginning the presenter, Tom Watt, suggested that there would be lots of calls about the ref, in particular the RvP penalty.

    Not one. All about Ramsey, Chamakh, who we should buy, how poor we are, do we deserve a CL place.

    We had just been robbed blind by a cheating referee and no caller saw fit to mention it. Sagna had just had his leg broken and no caller saw fit to mention that the referee allowed physicality that fell outside the laws of the game.

    In my considered opinion, any Arsenal fan who doesn’t think that something untoward is going on with the refs is either fast asleep or a fool.

  • BobbyP

    Bob

    I wish i could just forget about the first 5-6 games of the year but one cant. They happened and the manager deserves a significant amount of blame. Its his job to put together the best team possible for the start of the year, it makes much more sense than the end of the window.

    Its the managers fault that a patch work team sent up to OT tried to play as if we were at full strength. Why were rookie defenders not told to play more conservative in this instance. Is it the arsenal way to get battered by rivals. Utd patch work team was good enough to beat us 2-0 last year. The manager lack of tactical acumen comes hugely to the fore wehn watching chels run in the cl.

    Our own manager said it would be stupid to drop points for not having full backs. Yes it was stupid. When has Gibbs shown himself to be a reliable player in terms of fitness?? When has Jenkinson shown himslelf able to cope with the rigours of a prem season. Thats 50% of our full backs who our manager took a huge gamble with.

    You talk of Mertasacker like you were suprised he injured his ankle. Go and look at his career. See where most of his injuries have come from and all of his serious ones. Its not a suprise he was injured only to those who have done little research.

    The fact is you can go on making excuses all you want but until we manage to sort the defense we wont compete. We should expect more from our manager and his backroom staff. the defense is still quite easily one of the worst in the league considering how much the opposition have the ball and that im afraid sir is tragic

  • BobbyP

    Cape Gooner

    What about there pen in the first half?

  • BILL FROM MANHATTAN

    LET PEOPLE STICK TO WHAT THEY DO BEST. POSTMEN DELIVER MAIL, BUS DRIVERS DRIVE BUSES, ETC. FOOTBALL MANANGERS RUN FOOTBALL CLUBS. ALL THOSE PEOPLE WHO THINK THEY CAN DO A BETTER JOB THAN LE BOSS ARE DELUSIONAL. BUY, BUY, BUY, LIKE PICKIMG UP CANNED VEGTABLES AT THE SUPERMARKET. WHAT THE HELL DO THEY KNOW? MOST OF THEM BECAME ARSENAL SUPPORTERS DURING THE WENGER ERA. THEY NEVER HAVE KNOWN NOTHING BUT GOOD TIMES. NOW THAT OUR CLUB ISN’T UNBEATEN EVERY SEASON, IT’S WENGER MUST GO. THEY DON’T KNOW SHITE FROM SHINOLA. THEY ARE SPOILED ROTTEN AND TOO STUPID TO SEE HOW GOOD GOOD THEY HAVE IT. FIFTEEN YEARS OF CHAMPAGNE FOOTBALL, A BRAND NEW STADIUM, SILVERWARE IN THE CABINET,AND A WELL RUN CLUB. THESE THINGS DIDN’T HAPPEN BY OSMOSIS. IT ALL HAPPENED BECAUSE OF THE VISION OF OUR GAFFER AND DAVID DEIN. YOU NEVER MISS YOUR WATER UNTIL THE WELL RUNS DRY. BE CAREFUL FOR WHAT YOU WISH FOR, YOU JUST MIGHT GET IT.

  • bob

    Bobby P,
    You like to use the OT disaster to good effect; but it’s still one awful loss – one loss – at a time we were not ready for several reasons, and if one is Wenger’s tactics (or preoccupation with the departures and last minute acquisitions and not enough of a defensive assistant, then ok. It’s still one loss at a extraordinarily bad time – which you wish to hold up as the talisman. But there’s 8 of your 47 goals in that one match at OT. The turnaround toward near third means nothing to you does it? And the last three draws are piss-poor, I grant you that. And Arsene has slated the team for it and described the shambolic defense on the equalizer with Norwich as deplorable. But these losses can also be further analyzed and, imo, a lot comes down to Arteta’s absence – a major blow and potentially devastating blow – as no one is there to balance the side from his position in the way that he has proven – during the turnaround – to so effectively achieve. Again, there’s more factors here then the boss is God or the boss is Shite.

  • Cape Gooner

    @BobbyP

    Assume they had a penalty in the first half – so what. The RvP/Naughton incident was a 100% clear cut case of cheating. The only reason that the referee had for not giving that penalty was that he didn’t want to give it.

    There is no possible excuse – it was cheating!

  • Stroller

    While walking to Finsbury Park station after the game on Saturday I was talking with a couple of Norwich supporters. Although obviously pleased with their team, they were full of praise for Arsenal overall, and surprisingly knowledgable about the club overall.

    That evening at home I was lured onto one of the AAA blogs by a seemingly reasonable headline about the game. However on reading the contributions it became clear that it was populated a gormless gang of ‘mates’ whose contributions only varied in the degree of insult and abuse they could muster against the manager and individual players. There was negligable comment or analysis about the actual game which led me to believe that none of them had actually watched it.

    The most sickening contribution was from one nethanderal who proudly boasted that he would console himself by spending the evening watching repeats of the Ramsey leg-break video. Only one subsequent contributor took any sort of issue with him, the rest presumably felt it to be an OK thing to say.

    Rather like the hooligans of the 70’s, I can only think that these people are not fans or supporters of the club in any way but instead a sick sub-group who have attached themselves soly for the purpose of self-gratification through disharmony, disruption and abuse.

  • RedGooner

    I always thought the AAA was more an anti Arsen effect from a lot of people who couldnt stand watching the success he had and fearing he will repeat it.
    Just look at lineker on match of the day as a former spuds player and the way it was wenger he went after not Arsenal or the result the same goes for most of the so called anti Arsenal blogs its always Wenger targeted.

    Amazing considering all he has achieved that some Arsenal fans get dragged into it.

  • bob

    “Many AAA activists have multiple email names and addresses and we often find one person posting under different names. We have even found them having conversations with themselves.”
    Tony,
    Aside from their onanism being its own reward, one or two of the creatures have had literally scores of aliases, if I remember an old posting from Dogface. This, at the time, led me to think that it’s not merely pathology of some sort, but perhaps some people’s part time or day job at given times. This, of course, is highly conspiratorial (and there’s no smoking gun, unless Dogface had turned up one or two), but I wonder aloud who could afford the hours it might take to conduct these faux interchanges unless someone (with or without a grudge) is put up to it $omehow.

  • bob

    RedGooner,
    Hopefully Lineker will always be remembered for that display as the curb dweller he truly is. But he does serve a function which is to legitimate just that AAA type of Arsene-bashing; keep it on the boil so that when there’s a defeat, it’s there to stir up and re-focus on us. He’s useless except for that puppet’s service to his string-pullers.

  • Byo

    There definitely are perceived shortcomings at Arsenal. But they may not necessarily be as detailed by some on the blogs.

    If I may offer my jaundiced insight- the absence of cover on defense so the team seem open to counter-attack(as seen against Norwich) is a constant recurring problem. I am not convinced it is one of personnel.

    But the management really needs to consider moving out some we know are not contributing, if for no other reason than to reduce wastage on salaries! An added bonus may be the opportunity to sign players that the manager deem necessary.

  • Gooner Sam

    You will not post my comment because you banned me for not agreeing with you in the past.

    I find it absolutely abhorent that you use the topics and groups that you have as frames of reference to people that you essentailly have a different view to you.

    You should be absolutely disgusted with yourself for what you have written and need to take a long hard look at what you consider acceptable.

    I consider myself to be in the middle about Wenger, the board and other issues but to come out with the articel you have makes you as ignorant and arrogant as the people you put down.

    Disgusting!

  • Jacobite Gunner

    There is a chinese figure of speech that the AAA should be mindful of “Be careful what you wish for”.

    Since the construction and moving to of the world class Emirates (2004), arsene has had arsenal compete at the top table in the EPL and europe for the last 8 years under stringent financial constraints. Arsenal’s net debt is now circa 96 million (source: Swiss Ramble) down from 318 million in 2008, this means arsenal have paid off 220 million of net debt through using player sales and other self-sustaining measures in just four years.

    This net debt will probably be paid off (maybe) by the time we sign the new stadium and shirt sponsorship deals and then we will be able to see what arsene can do with serious financial backing, without needing to balance out purchases with sales as much. Although, at present, I do not see a problem in this. I do think we will be signing at least 1 more top class player in the transfer window but we probably will still make a small net profit (and maybe even a small net transfer loss this season, OMG AAA) with the cull of a number of underforming/not required players.

    But during those lean trophy years, the pull and expertise of Arsene has seen:

    1. Arsenal attract the best young talent around (nationally and internationally).

    2. Has developed a world class youth system; delivered champers league participation every season!

    3. Has created a state of the art medical and training facilities.

    4. Was crucial in the emirates development of the Emirates that is presently the preffered choice of Brazil’s national team for friendlies and base when they play friendlies in europe, not to mention european teams when they play in London -ie, inter milan used our training facilities when they played at the NExt GEn series.

    5. Arsenal use the emirates and our training and medical facilities as leverage to attract the top players.

    6. And in general provided the infrastructure for arsenal to be a world leading club on a number of aspects for the next 50 years, safeguarding arsenals future of being a standard bearer for innovation in football methods.

    7. Arsene’s reputation and reputation is a huge pull for developing players and top class internationals when signing for arsenal- case in point is ramsey and the OX who choose us over Man U.

    Now please, if any AAA or other objective supporters can argue the facts above, I really don’t think that you have arsenals current and future health at heart. My only dissapointment would be that if arsene was to leave before he could see the genuine fruits of his shrewd frugality when he will have alot more money to spend in the future, it would be a huge shame if we were to appoint someone else for as the AAA would like and see them benefit from arsene’s legacy.

  • Jacobite Gunner

    oh, i forgot the add:

    8. The exceptional high standard of football arsenal play and on a whole, the joy and privelage we have on watching arsenal play as a fan, which is admired throughout not only the EPL but in Europe and far beyond, ie. asia etc…

  • marcus

    But the conundrum remains.

    If you don’t like Arsenal/AW/all things Arsenal, don’t support the team.

    “But it’s my team”, you say, “I can only support Arsenal”

    Sadly though, that is not the economic reality. You have only an emotional stake in Arsenal,
    and in reality you have zero say in the matter. If you don’t like Arsenal, jog on.

    The only way to alter this is to change the entire economic infrastructure of football.

    Dismantle the entire system,
    float the clubs,
    make sure that fans have a a chance of the majority share holding.

    Liberate football from the tyranny of the filthy rich.
    Give the clubs back to the supporters.

    Season ticket holders get automatic share allocations with every season ticket bought.

    The government oversees the handover, and is responsible for the
    management and control of the game. Referees for instance would be
    trained and deployed as civil servants.

    Fan-Shareholders have a say on significant issues.
    (Obviously clubs could structure themselves as they saw best, bust you could have the fanbase
    determining wage structures for players for instance)

    Let people put their money where their mouths are, and if they really want to have an opinion on
    their team, and be stakeholders, they need to put op or shut up.

    Annual shareholders meeting

    Simple scenario

    Vote of confidence in AW

    In the cold hard real world, (not the onanistic fantasy football world),
    how many fan-shareholders would vote against AW?

    About 3 I suspect.

  • Jacobite Gunner

    9. A strong pedigree of young players coming who have either been scouted and signed from a young age or have been developed at the club- most prominent of these would be wilshere but there are many others…

  • Peter Doswell

    I am in total agreement with your comments regarding the AAA. I have read a few of these blogs and sometimes wonder if it is a child writing after not getting his own way!
    However there is one non football related point I wish to bring your attention to. As you quite rightly point out if you say something often enough people believe it to be true and global warming is a fine example of this. If one follows the facts then it has clearly been created to con more taxes out of the general population and to keep people in fear.
    Such movies as Zeitgiest and Thrive and websites such as David Icke provide information that can be independently verified.
    Keep up the excellent work.

  • Goona Gal

    2. 3rd Place…..should of been sewn up by now – dam it!

  • Goona Gal

    3. The article…

    No doubt I’ve missed a lot of articles, but I take it from this one, some have ‘supporters’ return to form.

    There is no denying that this has been a emotional rollercoaster of a season, which I hope will end on a massive high. I salute every fan that has had the resolve and spine to stick up for and support the club through thick and thin. The manager has got a few things wrong this season, as have the players and club. I don’t agree that wholesale change is needed, but clearly aside from more luck, adjustments are needed. Overall though as the phenomenal ride nears the end, I reflect back to a couple of months ago when we were completly written off, no one even thought we might possibly fighting it out for 3rd come the end of the season.

  • Gord

    @Marcus

    I ran some run length math this morning. Results in the Arsenal 3 – 3 Norwich thread.

  • Goona Gal

    ….and after reading through some of these comments, I’ve been suprised how defensive some people have been, when Tony set out his identification and justification for the phrase he coined. It’s interesting to note that some of the people leaving comments felt the need to have a ‘pop’ at Tony, I surmise this is because they identified with the traits Tony described….

  • WalterBroeckx

    Good to “see” you back Goona gal 😉

  • marcus

    @Gord

    Cheers Gord.

    My little cranium is struggling with way too much these days, so I am not too clued up on the Mersenne Twister…what does that equate to?

  • Gord

    @Marcus

    It is just a particular RNG that is known to be good. In case someone thought I used a brain dead RNG to generate the Poisson deviates (which is the first work I did today). If you know Perl and CPAN at all, Math::Random::MT::Auto will fill in more.

  • Goona Gal

    @ Walter – thanks.

    I’m watching the Chelsea Vs Liverpool game and can’t work out why half the players are Chelsea players are jogging about.

  • bjtgooner

    Good article Tony. But my impression is that the AAA have become a bit more organised over the season. They still have the thug types who like to spout ill conceived abuse at AW, individual players, the board, the medical team etc. But they also seem to have formed alliances with elements in the press and media, who in turn give the rather narrow AAA viewpoint abundant publicity. Further, the AAA deliberately targeted AW this season – with a strong (but invalid) AW out message – this message was also repeated by parts of the press and media. So, they moved from being just louts and complainers to a more sinister grouping.

    At present, I would not be surprised if some of the supposed Norwich fans – who respect Arsenal, were delighted with their team’s performance on Sat but who have been complaining bitterly ever since – are AAA’s in disguise. A new tactic by the AAA?

    It is very noticable that when the team is having a hard time a bunch of the AAA are sent out from their sewer to attack the club – some of these scum write on UA and invariably show everyone that they have nothing valid to contribute.

  • bjtgooner

    @Goona Gal

    I always enjoy your comments, welcome back (but be careful with that knife!)

  • goonergerry

    I do accept that posters who abuse Wenger-or any one else for that matter should have their post removed by editors. It is also the case that abusive and highly disrespectful posts aimed at discrediting posters coming from a different viewpoint are not limited to those you describe as the AAA . The difference is in the use of language rather than the intent. Perhaps if more posts on here focused on the issues raised rather than an opinion about the person who wrote them then I might be more willing to accept your claim for the high moral ground.
    Personally I find it hard to accept that a site that exists in order to counter negative comments elsewhere about the manager-and whose blogs have not uttered one word of criticism about the manager-is open to rational debate in the way you say it is.

  • Goona Gal

    @ Bjtgooner – thanks.

  • marcus

    You didn’t mention no10…

    the AAA mentality is somewhat ADDH

    One minute we are told that Van Persie is a shit purchase because he only cost 4M.
    The next they will say that VP is a good player,(forgetting their previous declaration), but that the manager still needs to spend 50M on a single player, because thats what successful clubs do.
    Then when VP goes 5 games without a goal, they will remind us that they were right all along, and that VP is a shit player who is prone to injury, and that his 30 goals are an aberration,
    and that we are totally reliant on him, (even though he is actually, really, a shit player, who is never available because he’s always injured)

    and so on and so on.

    It’s almost as if these losers believe that by saying something it becomes true….

    Sadly, this mentality is straight out of Mein Kampf……forget the little lie, just go for the big ones….and say them often enough until people believe them.

  • Gord

    I think another place the AAA hang out, are the various places where people rate Arsenal players in games. Szczesny gets mentioned first on the roster because he is the goaltender. I think a local to Norwich site rated Szczesny higher than many of the “compilation” rating sites (usually newspapers).

    But, while I’ve been saving ratings over the season, I haven’t gotten to the point of analyzing that data yet. A problem is that lots of sites weren’t consistent, sometimes they would make ratings and sometimes they wouldn’t. Having different sites use different rating systems is also a problem.

    @ GoonaGal

    I almost never follow links to video, too easy to pick up viruses, trojans and what not. You had a bad experience with a knife? I hope the doctors did a good job “approximating the wound” in fixing a but (I’m guessing).

  • Gord

    Of course I can’t type. Blah. 🙂

    … in fixing a cut (but I’m guessing).

  • Domhuaille MacMathghamhna

    A little off-topic but fact based nonetheless,AAAs and Wenger-out whiners aside, here is my take on what is in fact essential improvements needed at the Emirates for the coming season:

    1)Sell or fire the following: Squillaci,Almunia,Arshavin,Park, Vela, Bendtner,and Denilson….potential savings on salaries and benefits, plus return on transfer fees of over 70,000,000 Euros?
    2)Resign RVP,Song, Walcott, Benayoun and Rosicky to new contracts, the former 3 to full 4 year terms and the latter 2 to 1-2 year contracts….potential costs about 140 m Euro?
    3) Give Gervinho, Fabianski, Diaby and Chamakh another year to develop into impact squad players and if that doesn’t happen then the exit is offered the following season….cost us 35m Euro if we keep them.
    4)Promote Campbell, Ryo, Lansbury, Frimpong, Coquelin and Jenkinson as squad players and give them more EPL games…no additional cost?
    5)Start using Miguel,Afobe, Ozakyup and Eisfeld in the EPL Cups and other competitions more often….no additional cost.
    6)Buy another CB/DM), another RB and striker like; Vertonghen (CB), M’Villa (DM) and Sturridge(S) or Dost(S) or the best striker:Huntelaar….3 would cost about 50m Euro more or less?
    7)Resign Wenger and bring in 2 assistant coaches to help him. Apparently Bould is onboard already and I can see Henry coming back in the near future as a playing coach as well?

    What do my fellow Gooners think?

  • Stuart

    Dom,
    Sounds great but from what you say, the club will need to spend around 150m Euro. What are the chances??

    With regard to Park, Vela & Denilson. The jury is still out on these guys for me but that’s just my opinion.

  • elkieno

    I grew up supporting my local team playing rugby league, great game! Anyway my tram NEVER won a thing during my 19years (78-97), on fact the last won The league in 1921-22 nut I lived then they were a foundation club unlike our arch rivals Manly who were born from us cos North Sydney (the Bears) was too big for one team. Anyway, my team is gone, destroyed (except reserve side) along with a few others, all cos of Rupert Murdoch and Kerry Packer, throwing money around like a certain 2 clubs we know well. In the the end my club (& others) couldn’t afford the massive contracts paid to every registered player after Murdoch/Packer realised they were losing money with court costs etc and settled on some shit comp minus mine and other teams.
    That Would Never Happen at Arsenal FC! I am so happy I support Arsenal, it is a club that will still be there when money men get bored and move on.

  • elkieno

    Stupid predictive text, too hard to write long msg…

  • WalterBroeckx

    I must say that it looks as if Tony and I stepped on a few AAA people their feet.

    A comment on the Clichy article (which you will not see appear because it contains abusive language and swear words) is saying that Arsenal have set up this site and that we are being paid by Arsenal to do this.
    And as the poster promised to spread that word on the internet you will see some free advertisement for Untold. So thanks for that

    Now isn’t that exactly what the AAA is all about and what Tony said in his article. They invent something. They put it on the internet. (I think I have seen the first new fresh idea about their latest nonsense being born in the comment section of a blog that I visited because of one of the persons I follow on twitter made a remark about it and I couldn’t resist to take a look).

    And once it is put on the internet by one, a bunch of others (maybe the same person with a different IP adress?) agree with it, then they confirm it. Then they say they are sure about it because the lady that cleans the toilets next to the ticket box office has heard it say when Wenger came in to take a p….)
    Then they conclude and say it must be and is a fact and from then on and for the rest of their sad lives it is a fact for them.

    If it wouldn’t have been for the foul mouthed abuse we could have published it in fact and have a very good laugh.

    Well you made me smile, James 🙂

  • @Walter – our ex-resident nutter wrote an article about this site – the AAA in question got it from that. See your email.

  • Would be interested to know what you have to say about this article. http://www.arsenalnewsreview.co.uk/index.php/news/2421/30/By-Rhys-Jaggar-Untold-Arsenal-s-propaganda-and-hypocrisy

    Are you really in the pay of Arsenal Football Club?

  • WalterBroeckx

    Mark,

    it is the funniest thing I have ever read.

    My day time employer is paying me and my wife is letting me spend my spare time on Untold. Those are the only two I get something from. 🙂

  • Steve

    Well in a way I have a lot to thank the AAA for who posted on ANR as until then I was unaware that this site existed. I have for a while been following Arsenal Truth who for some time used to write quiter well thought out an balanced articles – until you disagreed with him and proved quite categorically that his assertions were not necessarily correct. he then resorts to abuse and for the most part ungrounded attacks and then mediates the responses to suit his personal agenda. So unbookmark Arsenalk Truth and bookmark here – at least there is a degree of debate here!

  • Steve

    ooo the link has been take down on ANR- Maybe even Myles realised that the author was a tad insane!

  • sayantan

    Just today i saw an article saying mr usmanov save us and a lot of abuse regarding mr wenger and mr gazidis ! I dnt understand there problem ! If they take so much stress because of arsenal then they should go and support mr avb’s side who have spent a lot but still have not been able to win !