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If you’re going to boo then at least boo for the right reason.

Are Stoke fans the saddest in the League?

By Cameron Wolfe

Going to Stoke in the last few seasons has normally been difficult to say the least. It used to be Bolton that the media would pick out as the team that we were constantly being bullied by. Now it seems that Stoke have picked up that mantle.

On Sunday’s game at the final whistle though it was Pulis who ran away form the pitch. Big smile on his face as they had just won the game.

As an Arsenal fan of course I’m going to say that we should have won the game. We had most of the possession. We certainly went to the Britannia to play for the win. On the whole though not getting beat there isn’t the end of the world.

As always being an optimistic Gooner I’d say it’s still a better start than last season and we could’ve won it at the very end if Giroud had scored a wonder goal or even passed the ball to Ramsey.

And Ramsey brings me to the question in the headline.  Booing is just like banter. It’s part of the game.

Walter blogged recently about whether we as Arsenal fans should Boo RVP, He was still playing for us at the time so I like Walter would never boo a current Arsenal player no matter how bad a game he was having.

Playing Man. U. in November at home is another matter. Will RVP be booed? I’m sure when his name is announced, he’ll be booed. When he runs on to the pitch even in the warm up, he’ll be booed. Obviously if he scores he’ll definitely be booed.

RVP being booed by our fans and Aaron being booed by the Stoke fans however are poles apart.

RVP left us after eight seasons where Arsenal FC and more importantly Arsène stood by him through good and bad. Most supporters probably feel that he betrayed us. I just think he wanted to get as much money as he could for what probably is his last contract but this isn’t about him.

So RVP will be booed at the Emirates as the fans will want him to know how they feel about him.

But why is Aaron Ramsey booed by the Stoke fans? What exactly has he done to upset those Stoke fans who did boo that he was booed so loudly by them?   Not just one or two sad fans but collectively by most of the Stadium.

Is it because Stoke wanted to sign him but he chose Arsenal?

Did he betray them?   Is it because he’s Welsh? Did he insult the city of Stoke?

Oh I remember it was the fact that on 27 February 2010 when  Arsenal played Stoke City at the Britannia Stadium, Aaron had the audacity to stand there and be tackled by Stoke defender Ryan Shawcross causing a double fracture to his lower right leg.

But never mind. Shawcross didn’t mean it. Even Pulis said at the time He’s a nice kid. Wouldn’t hurt a fly. Still does the shopping for his Mum. Etc etc.

By the loudness of the boos which carried on for a while every time Aaron touched the ball, you would have thought that it was in fact he who’d broken Shawcross’s leg (in two places).

I’ve only been to Stoke once wasn’t that impressed by the city although the people in general seemed quite nice. I’m going to have to believe however that by the overreaction from the crowd on Sunday that your average Stoke fan who attends their home matches is rather sad. Or in fact by my reckoning very sad indeed.

Will we all collectively be booing Shawcross when we play them at Home in February? I think there will be a few boos going around the Emirates but I’d like to think that on the whole we as Gooners are just a little more classier than your average Stoke fan. Afterall it’ll be three years in February and we have had other things to think about after that.

If we do boo Shawcross again next year at least the Stoke fans will know exactly why we do.  But meanwhile I sat in disbelief as I watched Sunday’s match and listened to what I think are indeed the saddest fans in the EPL.

——————————–

 Our Woolwich Arsenal book nominated for an award

91 comments to If you’re going to boo then at least boo for the right reason.

  • Personally I feel the Stoke fans have sucked up the line Pullis feeds them. How they play football. Last season 36 goals in 38 games and only 94 shots on target all season. How can they sit and watch that week in week out? It’s because Pullis winds them up and feeds them the, them and us ploy. Pullis signs his players as giants, certain types who you almost feel Pullis has them around as his bouncers.

    Horrible football club and nothing like the Stoke City of old.

  • Shard

    Stokies claim that it is because we don’t let it go. But it is their manager who keeps bringing it up and refuses to draw a line under it. And whenever he’s confronted with questions on the stoke fans booing Ramsey always excuses it by bringing up Shawcross being booed by Arsenal fans. A pathetic excuse really. As if it’s the same thing.

    The charming folks of stoke were also chanting ‘Wanker’ at Cazorla because his ankle was stamped on by one of the Orcs. What? I shouldn’t call them orcs? Well what would you call them?

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/27453474@N02/7865430536/

    (P.S. We’re a classy club, but rightly enough, we know how to have a dig at folk that deserve it 🙂 )

  • Jonathan

    Totally agree with you, Ramsey had the audacity to have his leg bone be shattered by Shawcross so of course the good folk that support Stoke RFC feel they have every right to boo Ramsey, after all didn’t Ramsey cause Shawcross to have such huge mental pain and anguish, and not so long after breaking another players leg I believe….poor lad. Still as cross code games go I prefer league v union, football v rugby was ok though.

  • davi

    I didn’t think many people were booing Ramsey. Some definitely were, but I think everyone expected that, and there’s always a few idiots. Also, the reason they did it this time and in the last game, I think, is because Arsenal fans booed shawcross. They think Shawcross is has been unfairly treated, so I guess it’s vaguely understandable, but still stupid. They and Pulis have been led on by the media into thinking Wenger personally attacked Shawcross and consequently feel wronged.
    This whole thing has been media driven from the start. Shawcross made a bad tackle, but the results were extremely unfortunate. He should have been made to feel that it was a bad tackle, but instead he’s been led by the media and Fergie and others into thinking it wasn’t a bad tackle because it wasn’t intentional. So he says he’s sorry but doesn’t think he’s done anything wrong. After the game, Pulis originally reacted very properly and refused to talk about the game, just to say that his thoughts were with Ramsey, effectively, but when Wenger says the *tackle* was unacceptable, someone in the media told Pulis that AW said that Shawcross is unacceptable, or something, and Pulis has reacted to that (without checking), and that’s what has really started this feud.

  • davi

    Shard – Pulis exposes the real bias of the media. The guy complains all the time, probably the biggest whinger in the leauge, and yet the stats show that Stoke are the luckiest team, or were last season. And yet no one calls him on it! Conversely, Wenger is called a whinger by everyone and even ridiculed on Mot-f-d.

  • Paul Mills

    The truth is that the Arsenal fans who travelled to Stoke boo’d Shacross from the warm up, throughout the game, and when he left the pitch at half and full time. You can’t have it both ways old son. I know that you think that you have the divine right to boo him because Ramsey broke his leg in a challenge by Shawcross, but I don’t see that as any better than the Stokies booing Ramsey.
    In fact I think it’s all a bit pathetic, but don’t pretend that Arsenal haven’t got their share of fools, because articles such as this prove otherwise.

  • steve

    the biased media always focus on the booing ramsey gets – but the booing shawcross got started before the game

  • deejay

    stoke city manager, fans and shawcross are the scum of the earth

  • Matt

    Wow, Arsenal fans are deluded, the reason a small percentage of Stoke fans booed Ramsey is due to his immaturity at the situation, he firstly refused to accept apologies from Shawcross. Proper apologies from one to another not through the media or other wise. Then how can Stoke fans be accused of not letting it go? When Ramsey himself told Coleman that he still had problems with Shawcross?

    Then the tackle itself was not that bad, had Bendtner not held Shawcross back he would have arrived at the proper time to put a fair tackle in, and Ramsey’s leg was already broken before Shawcross arrived, there is proof of that.

    Also Arsenal fans should stop booing Shawcross as he never intended to hurt Ramsey, even after he was in tears for hurting a fellow professional and he was also young and learning, the Arsenal fans should be just as ashamed for that because that was just as unnecessary.

    Finally the general idea that Stoke are a bad disciplinary side, well that’s simply not true, as any statistics will say over the last few seasons Arsenal have had a much worse disciplinary record that Stoke’s and in fact is one of the worst in the league.

    (P.S Even though I argue against Ramsey and for Shawcross I felt for Ramsey when the incident happened and the time he had to spend out was very unfortunate, I am glad he bounced back, and I was disappointed with the booing from a tiny percentage of Stoke fans as I was at the game yesterday).
    Oh and I can’t stand Arsene Wenger at all!

  • davi

    steve – that’s a fair point, but it fit’s into the same narrative. The media focus on to the Ramsey booing only serves to extend this bitter and frankly unnecessary rivalry.
    Also, overall, the media portrays the stoke fans as just having a laugh at the expense of that ridiculous Arsene Wenger, and the booing of Ramsey was unfortunate because it spoiled what otherwise was just good-natured ribbing. I agree that the Arsenal fans were booing Shawcross, though, and certainly less was made of it.

  • rigger

    i can assure you i am not the scum of the earth. we boo ramsey because he refused to accept ryan’s apology from one pro to another following a tackle which was a split second late(due to bentner’s intervention).

    This is almost unprecedented in the modern game.

    Goonies really are wenger’s clones and continue to raise this issue by constantly abusing one of the finest defenders in the country–as proved again by yesterday’s performance.

    Goonies are the scum of the earth

  • one of the finest defenders in the country? He wouldn’t even make the top ten, no twenty! British steel is all well and good, but no matter how good he may or may not be defensively, it’s wasted because he is terrible on the ball and just hoofs it away. What’s the point in winning the ball if you just give it straight back? Give me a Ferdinand/Agger/Koscielny type defender any day!

  • Jamo

    Seriously are you all that stupid that you can’t see why we boo precious Saint Aaron?

    It’s not because he was injured you morons, it’s because he didn’t accept Ryan’s apology and both Ramsey and your myopic manager basically attempted to ruin Ryan’s reputation in football.

    50/50’s happen in the game and sometimes players are regrettably injured; we should know as it happened to Rory Delap while playing for us against Sunderland.

    What was the reaction from Stoke?

    To say that Robbie Elliott (who caused the injury) was a good pro, accidents happen and let’s leave it at that.

    You may have far more riches, have won more trophies but you as a club have no class at all.

  • davi

    rigger – surely it’s up to Ramsey? And the fact is, why would anyone take Shawcross’ apology seriously when he literally says he didn’t feel he did anything wrong. Perhaps if he actually accepted responsibility, rather than just acting as though it was fine because it wasn’t intentional, then Ramsey would have accepted.
    The problem again is that the media decided that all that mattered was the intent, but, as Ramsey said, Shawcross clearly decided to “stop” him because he (RS) had taken a heavy touch and knew that if he let Aaron take the ball, Arsenal would have had a chance to score.
    Unfortunately, he was influenced by Ferguson and others, who seemingly told him that he’d done nothing wrong at all. I don’t want to crucify the guy, but all he had to do was accept some responsibility for what was a bad challenge.

  • nicky

    Perhaps we Gooners have got it wrong all this time and it was actually that thug Ramsey who thumped poor Shawcross so brutally with his leg and rightfully came off worst.

  • davi

    “both Ramsey and your myopic manager basically attempted to ruin Ryan’s reputation in football.”
    How? Ramsey said Ryan tried to “stop” him, but said he didn’t think it was intentional, but still a bad challenge, and Wenger said that the tackle was unnacceptable. I don’t think these are outrageous statements at all.
    It all started really because someone told Pulis that Wenger said Shawcross was a terrible human being, which to my knowledge never happened, and it snowballed from there.

  • davi

    “you can’t see why we boo precious Saint Aaron”
    And you wonder why people think you’re attacking the victim. Bit passive-aggressive there.

  • Shakabula Gooner

    @ Paul Mills 5.08pm:
    “Ramsey broke his leg in a challenge by Shawcross…”
    Really?!

    You mean Shawcross didn’t tackle and break Ramsey’s leg; he mearely challenged the bloke and Ramsey, by himself, went ahead and broke his leg?

    That, my friend, is the crux of the matter. Many years after, even you cannot get to say what happened in simple English.

    If you cannot, what hope that Pulis will ever? What hope that English football will begin the process of reforming itself by limiting the risk on flair footballers? What hope that England will ever challenge for International honours in the game it proudly introduced to the world?

    I know that from time to time Wenger appeals to fans not to boo players that the fans wish to boo. It doesn’t always stop them from doing so but it sets the official position which soon recalibrates fans’ disposition.

    Nothing stops Pulis from doing same. But it will imply that one assumes that Pulis can rise above pettiness!

    For God’s sake, somebody’s leg was broken; a footballing career came to the brink of ending and a footballer spent more than 12months on the sidelines recuperating!

    Even by your standards, that should pale in comparison to the tit-for-tat booing that Shawcross suffers from Arsenal fans.

    Pulis, more than anybody else owe it to EPL to seek closure to this through a mere appeal to stoke fans to stop booing Ramsey. Then, lets see if Arsenal will not or does not reciprocate in kind.

  • Kanonieris

    To be honest “Sad” was not the first thing that came to my mind, but after my shock and what was going on settled in I realized that spending any more time or thought on them is a complete waste.

  • davi

    @Matt
    “When Ramsey himself told Coleman that he still had problems with Shawcross?”

    What are you talking about? That’s the opposite of what happened. This is what he said:
    “I’m over what happened. It’s up to the manager what he feels is right for the team.”

  • Jamo

    Davi,

    If you honestly believe that was all that was said, you’re either in denial or don’t follow football all that closely.

    I notice you make no reference to our reaction to Rory Delap’s leg break.

    Strange.

  • Mattovstoke

    For me yeaterday showed again how unclassy and deluded Gooner fans are, pot calling the kettle black i’m afraid. For those of you who attended think back.. When your players came out to warm up was Ramsey booed at all?? No he was not!! when our players came out who was it that started booing and abusing Shawcross? no argument at all and for me end of discussion. I suspect i was like the majority of Stoke fans who were looking forward to having the crack at Arsene Wengers expense and had forgotten about Ramsey, but after hearing the abuse of our captain then Ramsey was fair game from my point of view.
    Until you start looking in your own back yard and a bit closer to home then things will never change. What happened was a tragic accident that i hope never to have to witness again you all need to forgive and forget..

  • Danosky

    Booing or not booing, Shawcross should have done better to make amends. I feel this is part of the fun in the game but if Managers can control their fans on games like these (Arsenal have controlled themselves many times), things will get better. Aaron is the Captain of The Welsh Team and so he deserve to be respected but because of the stupid nature of some Stoke fans, they make it look as if the issue is new. Aaron has no problem with Shawcross cos those things happen in football. I dont think Shawcross hate Aaron either. Apart from their various clubs, they are all Welsh so home is home. The Media should please let these star players ply their trade comfortably please and let us have peace on this issue for once.

  • davi

    Jamo – tell me then.

    I don’t know the details of the Delap leg break, but no one responds to every one of my points. I notice you don’t respond to my point about Shawcross never accepting responsibility, thereby invalidating any apology he could make…

    In any case, can you understand a bit why Arsenal fans might be a bit touchy wrt leg breaks, considering we had 3 in 4 years?

  • This davi guy is an asshole

    This davi guy has no sense.Its a miracle Ramsey is still playing football and I think in the future he and wilshere is gonna tear stoke city appart no doubt. And clearly stoke is the worst team in the Bpl to play against as the are morons!!!

  • Shard

    Booing Shawcross and booing Ramsey cannot be equated. Shawcross and Stoke have many times had the opportunity to accept that Shawcross made a mistake. Instead of taking that, they choose to play the victims, right from the day of the incident. I have no interest in booing Shawcross or Stoke but it is a fact that they’ve shown themselves to be thick, uncouth and idiotic to say the least. The good people of stoke, however many they may be, must be ashamed to be associated with the orcs that make themselves heard, including chief orc Pulis.

  • Matt

    Davi
    1: Is that all you honestly believe was said? I stick by my point.
    2: Out of my entire response and all of the points I made, you decide not to comment on any except the tiniest one that you have the merest of faults to pick with it?
    Even more deluded that I thought…

  • Shard

    We’ve played Sunderland many times after Dan Smith’s assault (it was the worst of the three tackles that resulted in leg breaks) and yet no bad blood has ever been felt towards Sunderland. Pretty much the same with Birmingham. Both the managers did their bit to defend the leg breakers, but neither they, nor the fans of their club acted like they were the victims in it all. Only Mighty Stoke are that whiny. Hypocrites the lot of them.

  • davi

    Matt – what was said then!? I can’t find anything bad. Ramsey said ok, it’s up to the manager.

    And what’s with this getting me to respond to every single point? I responded to the one I felt was most answerable. Your other points are basically your opinion or have already been addressed.

    The apology I’ve mentioned many times is not truthful because he also says he doesn’t believe he did anything wrong,
    The tackle itself I said was unfortunate but still a bad tackle and he should honestly take responsibility for it.
    Arsenal should stop booing ramsey – ok. I feel no need to answer that
    The disciplinary point – I mentioned that Stoke were found to be the most fortunate side last season wrt referee decisions on this and another site, by quite some distance. I think that answers you there.

  • davi

    “you decide not to comment on any except the tiniest one that you have the merest of faults to pick with it?”
    Also it wasn’t the merest of faults, I said that comment was completely wrong!

  • niyo

    Sometimes reading this type of articule from people who feel Shawcross was right or hasn’t done anything wrong (after a career threatning tackle on a player like him) simply shows the animorcity that goes on around the world buy european element sorry to bring politics into this but it goes a long way in expalining the ideologies of Western democracies where an entire nation of people is bombarded indescriminately in the name of spreading democracy yet when they fight back by killing only 6 people in retaliation, the oppressed are accused of ”TERRORISM” what a world!!!
    I want to believe the attitude of those who booed Ramsy share the same animalist intent as those who rule their country.

  • GodWoreTen

    Yes shard. Orcs they are. And nicky, perfectly summarised.

  • Mahdain

    aseriously do people from stoke even have brains? that is one of the most idiotic excuse for booing a player ever and the fact that you stokies are using it shows just how much IQ does a normal stokie have.. Ramsey was the one who had his leg broken and shattered thanks to your thug “he is a good boy”Ryan “not kind of a player” “his mommy had to come to take him”Shawcross..

  • Tz

    I am not from UK, and I dont care much about aaron ramsey.

    But for all stokes fans who thinks aaron MUST accept your crybaby shawcross’ apology gotta to think twice, probably still suffering from guilty conscience. Had your club been really sincere, the apology would have been right away, unlike your nutmeg pulis who kept on the denial game.

    Now even IF aaron is wrong, for stoke fans to keep booing just because of that shows how lacking in maturity, very much reflected by nuthead pulis.

  • Jamo

    I suppose the lad crying his eyes out meant nothing then? It’s well known that Aaron chose not to respond (which is his prerogative) but I do feel your manager was very manipulative in the wake of it and attempted to use it to your club’s advantage.

    Ryan’s devastation at what happened is always glossed over but was the most genuine reaction you could ever get. Arsenal fans made out it was a bad thing and that it didn’t mean anything, it clearly did.

    As for Rory, it was a very similar situation. In actual fact Elliott’s challenge was probably far worse as I still stand by the fact that the Ramsey incident was just one of those things, unfortunate but something that happens in football.

    Rory suffered a double leg break and despite him being on loan at the time, Stoke made him a permanent signing while he was recovering from the injury.

    The difference in the approach from our two club’s couldn’t have been more different.

    Other players will break legs and it will be equally as unfortunate as Ramsey’s break, the aftermath won’t even be close to the overreaction from Arsenal though.

  • Jules

    Matt you are a disgusting little cunt

  • Paul

    The fact that you feel that it is ok for Arsenal fans to boo Shawcross, but not for Stokies to Boo Ramsey, shows how small minded and immature some of you really are. Stoke fans are Orcs?
    Well they weren’t out looting last year like some of you lot.

    Editor – that was Tottenham fans Paul…

  • Rob

    Hmm. Stoke are like Spurs. Hung up with some out of date, petty preoccupation with Arsenal as they have nothing to actually celebrate about themselves. Ramsay and shawcross whichever way you view it was about one player going over the top with a wild tackle on another pro. Pulis and the media both use it to create an edge to every subsequent meeting. When you look at the prem league and the ever increasing technical ability of the players and teams, how or why pulis persists in building a ultra combative team as a clear preference to a technically gifted football team (don’t tell me it’s money look at Swansea, WBA etc) just says it all. Dinosaur manager and introspective fans looking backwards instead of forwards.

  • Mahdain

    @Shard i think the word you are looking for Pulis is Uruk Hai..

  • Chrissie Greeno

    If you haven’t been to Stoke, you need to. A visit to the “Chamber Potteries” goes along way in explaining the hatred and IQ of the inhabitants. The town is populated by the descendants of a gene pool that migrated to the town with the “unique” skills to mould clay….more Uruk Hai than simple Orc. I’m impressed that some on here have learn the common tongue and the ability to copy runes.

  • Gary

    Back to school soon lads, eh ?
    You lot should grow up and read a balanced article on this subject.
    Mark Holmes Monday moan on team talk says it all.
    Then again I don’t think most of you can read

  • davi

    “I suppose the lad crying his eyes out meant nothing then?”
    I never said that, but afterwards he decided he’d done nothing wrong. That’s why I place more blame on the media, and people like Ferguson, because he did do something wrong; he broke another player’s leg through impact – that shoud never happen.
    However as I said earlier, I don’t want to crucify him, he just should have accepted more responsibility than he did.

    “It’s well known that Aaron chose not to respond”
    Yes, after Ryan had stopped crying and decided to absolve himself of responsibility, making the apology meaningless.

    “Arsenal fans made out it was a bad thing and that it didn’t mean anything, it clearly did.”
    Don’t know what you’re talking about there. Glossed over, perhaps, but that might have been because another lad was laying in hospital, and I have no idea what you mean about fans turing THAT round on Shawcross. How could one do that exactly?

    “The difference in the approach from our two club’s couldn’t have been more different.”
    Sounds like the situations were different too. For one, Stoke hadn’t suffered 3 leg breaks in 4 years, and weren’t constantly hearing about how the best way to beat them was to get in their faces etc. Also Delap wasn’t 19, so bad as it was, it feels different when it happens to an adult.
    And as Shard said, this rivalry didn’t start up with Sunderland and Birmingham, only Stoke – and the Shawcross challenge wasn’t even the worst one. So it’s more than just “Arsenal are idiots”.
    Besides, why do Arsenal fans, players and management have to act the way Stoke wants them to? Ramsey was the victim here. He doesn’t have to follow the Stoke narrative if he doesn’t want to. He acted honestly. Shawcross, in the end, didn’t. A meaningful apology would undoubtedly have fixed things between the players.

  • davi

    “Other players will break legs and it will be equally as unfortunate as Ramsey’s”
    Maybe it will happen less frequently if we stop throwing up our arms and saying “it’s just one of those things”.
    I don’t say Arsenal players are always angels, but very rarely do you see an Arsenal player make a challenge on someone above ankle height. Even the late challenges almost always connect on the boot. As a result very rarely do our players injure opponents.

  • Dec

    Aha! So the truth is finally out. It was Nic Bendtner’s fault that Aaron leg was broken, nothing to do with that brainless muppet Shawcross. Can’t imagine a more ridiculous argument than that put forward by Stoke City and their mob of witless wonders. Hopefully this will be the season that relagation beckons for Pulis and Co. and the EPL will be returned to decent footballing sides. Only a matter of time. No wonder they are despised throughout the league.

  • Stuart

    Off subject guys but it’s Howard Webb on Sunday

  • Stoke City My Ass

    God punish all supporters of STOKE CITY FC, devil bless TONY PULIS, They deserve those curses. AMEN!

  • bjtgooner

    That nice boy Shawcross did have a previous history of leg breaking, strange that he had not learned to take more care. The thing which fans find annoying is the continuous physical way in which Stoke approach games – e.g.the way Cazorla was tackled from behind and the way Vermaelen was “emptied” suggest that Pulis encourages this approach. Sooner or later another leg will be broken.

    However, fans who boo a player on the excuse that he has not accepted an apology, which he obviously feels is insincere, really let themselves down badly – I don’t think even the Orcs would accept them.

  • Gooner S

    @jamo

    Well I guess you’re being serious with that post.

    Aaron Ramsey has kept a dignified silence. He has moved on. You should as well.

  • Stuart

    @ Matt

    The idea that Arsenal are side with bad discipline is laughable too. We’ve had more incorrect decisions go against us than Stoke scored goals last season. Incorrect decisions don’t make a violent team.

  • LongTime Potter

    Frankly, this row has gone too long and really the best thing now would be for the two managers to meet and sort it out – maybe issue a joint statement.
    Arsenal’s players and manager were upset to see a talennted young player injured. I get that. They were also upset that there had been other cases where talented players had been injured by physical challenges, eg Eduardo. I get that as well.
    Shawcross was clearly upset by the incident – either that or he is a truly Oscar winning actor and I have seen no evidenct to back that idea up. I can also understand that Ramsey did not want to respond when Shawcross tried to contact him after the incident, being faced with a potential career ending situation. All of that I get.
    What I don’t get – and no Stokies I know do – is why we are still talking about this. Ramsey has told news organisations that he has not had an apology. That is clearly untrue and any Arsenal fans who don’t believe me should check all the internet stories about this in February and March 2010, rather than listening to those who want to make this situation worse.
    We don’t understand why the likes of Chris Coleman have to keep going on about a situation caused by a single tackle in a game two and a half years ago.
    What happened was horrendous for Ramsey, but physical contact sports like football are dangerous. People do get hurt.

  • robl

    Lets forget about Stoke, we’ve worked them out now and have nothing to fear. Besides they are yeterdays news, football has moved on and only Big Sam & Pulis believe in hit and hope as plan A,B & C.

    Last season they finished just above the drop zone, and will be hoping that there are 3 crapper teams.

    Species that don’t evolve ultimately fail.

    (let’s not mention Stromatalites…)

  • Dec

    I admire your confidence that the average Stokie yokel would understand Stromatalites.

  • Pete Stoke

    As a Stoke fan I have no idea why other Stoke fans ‘boo’ Ramsey. Whilst it is my prerogative to say that Ramsey’s leg was broken during a tackle / 50/50 for the ball incident (as opposed to Shawcross breaking his leg) it is still wrong to boo a player who was injured on our pitch. Some of the reasons I have been given for such booing are as follows;
    1. Ramsey refused to accept Shawcross’s apology
    2. Misdirected boos meant for Wenger for his remarks about ‘the incident’.
    3. Misdirected boos intended as a response to Arsenal fans for their booing / chanting etc of Shawcross.

    I completely reject all of these reasons for the following;
    1. Was a private indecent between the 2 players and not worthy of booing.
    2. We are creative enough with regards to having a go at Wenger without booing one of his players.
    3. Just doesn’t make sense whatsoever.

    Chants between fans is a big (and enjoyable) part of the game and the seemingly random or unnecessary booing of players takes away from this. I obviously cannot speak for the actions of others but this Stoke fan in particular would like to distance himself from such actions and focus on the genuine ‘friendly’ rivalry between our clubs.

  • robl

    @ Dec

    Virtually brothers…

  • carrot

    why should Ramsey have a say who plays for his country or not how many other players have been injured and then had the say yes he can or no he can not play in the same team as them for their countries.It is about time a line was drawn now by both clubs, managers and the players, it does nothing for the game.
    Good luck to both playrs. I do feel if Shawcross played for a higher club he would not be over looked for his country,

  • EZ_Gooner

    Wow even the most prejudiced arsenal fan couldn’t have accomplished what the Stoke fans have done on here tonight. Bravo to all of you Stokies, you stank the place out and then proved just why you are renowned for being bitter, ignorant, paranoid idiots. Could it be your illogical victimised rantings are simply proof you don’t belong in this league and you know it? You’ve been treading water or should I say treading on opponents for so long now without ever looking like a football team.

    When the real size football pitch regulations are brought in this season and mean you actually have to try using the pitch for playing instead of closing it down into a bull pit and are finally relegated back to the darkness where you came from… You will not be missed… by anyone.

  • EZ_Gooner

    I suppose I should response to the semi coherent rantings you managed to comprise with your non-opposable thumbs. Shawcross mummies boy never ACTUALLY apologised. If saying you did nothing wrong that’s not an admission of guilt hence not an apology. Arsenal fans booing him for breaking their player’s leg makes them… football fans. You booing Ramsey for having his leg broken by a RECKLESS tackle and then being upset about it and losing a year of his career makes him… human. You Stoke fans booing him for er…. being human and not accepting a non-apology and THEN accusing him of what? Being precious? A bit of a nancy? Not made of that gritty northern stuff you clearly are filled. Let’s review your contribution to this league? It includes the worst pass ratio in the league, the least minutes of football played per game, a javelin player with the worst individual footballing stats (Delap) as an integral part of your team. Not to mention a set of players clearly encouraged by their manager and “fans” who are responsible for more of our players missing serious chunks of a season (Shawcross on Ramsey obviously, Delap on Adebayor and Walcott) than any other team in the league.

    And finally Ramsey, evil, manipulative, conniving Ramsey used by yourselves as an example of I don’t know what!! He had his leg broken by your player (NOT as you seem to be bizarrely convinced by Bendtner who merely obstructed your player) he missed 18 months of his career and isn’t happy about it. We boo your thug who did it as well as broke 2 other player’s legs in his short career and STILL doesn’t accept any responsibility. You boo our player because… and let’s not kid ourselves here… because you’re a bunch of scum.

  • Adam

    Stoke city football club, Bit of a conundrum, Total opposite to Arsenal FC, Stoke came into being from a group of SOUTHERN public school boys finishing their apprentiships at the north Staffordshire railway works, So from old Carthusians to Stoke ramblers http://www.charterhouse.org.uk/historyofassociationfootball.
    I do believe that Stoke need to go back to 1863 when the original football association met with the aim of limiting handball and hacking and decide if they want to participate or take the other road that led to rugby?
    As for their fans
    They embarrassed themselves in front of the whole world on Sunday.

  • Blessed cr7

    Booin RVP wud b stupid althoug he deserves it.

  • EZ_Gooner

    Long time Potter you’re right, they (bad injuries) do happen. But when they keep happening as a result of the actions of the same player and he keeps saying he doesn’t feel like he’s done anything wrong, then we as fans have the right to boo him. Perhaps if you Stoke fans took a little more responsibility he might think about changing his approach to the game. Stop booing a player who’s only crime is to be upset about missing 18 months of a short career because of a bad tackle and maybe we can start to put it behind us. Who broke who’s leg? Who went home crying with his mum and got all the sympathy from the media? Who still hasn’t admitted after breaking 3 different player’s legs he’s in some way to blame? We are football fans not buddhists, Shawcross is a symbol of your team and you manager. You booing Ramsey merely shows your fans us as… unpleasant.

  • Craig

    I can’t believe that this is still going on. Both sets of supporters will naturally want to stick up for their own players. The fact is that Wenger tried to vilify Shawcross for a 50/50 challenge that unfortunately caused an injury and he has accused Pullis of deliberately sending out his players to cause injury. That is completely moronic and damaging to the reputation of Stoke and naturally stoke fans will take offence to this. Yes, Ramsey suffered a horrific injury but unfortunately this will always happen in football. I don’t know why he couldn’t accept the apology and allow on. Perhaps it was on the advice of Wenger who is determined to vilify stoke and pullis. If any Arsenal fans really think that Shawcross injured Ramsey on purpose then there is really nothing else to say. As for the booing of Ramsey – unnecessary but he is not getting boo’d because he was injured, but because he refused to accept the appology and tried to stop Shawcross getting called up for Wales. I’m glas he’s back playing as he’s A good player but not the greatest professional.

  • Dave

     

    Isn’t it obvious to the thick Gooners why We booed Ramsey?

    Firstly he refuses to accept (or even acknowledge) Ryan’s response. Ok his perogative I guess.

    Secondly he remains silent and lets that prick Wenger try to ruin Shawcross’ career in the media (bear in mind he was picked for the England squad immediately prior to this incident and has not been picked since).

    Thirdly, when Coleman asks Ramsey about picking Shawcross for Wales (wtf has it got to do with him anyway????), he says there is still an issue.

    So then he turns up at the Brit and expects there to be no reaction from the Stoke crowd?? Muppet!

    I for one am glad that Shawcross told Coleman he can shove his place in the Wales team where the sun don’t shine!

    Shawcross is a finer player than Ramsey will ever be!!

  • Dec

    It’s a promising sign that even with the concerted efforts of Stike to take him out of play, Santi managed to show how the beautiful game should be played and still emerged unscathed. At least we get to watch and appreciate the exceptional skills he, Ox, Jack and the boys can display each week. Stokies get to watch the rubbish Shawcross, Huth,Crouch and Co. produce week in week out. No wonder they’re sad, deluded, bitter and angry.

  • Adam

    I think I need to make myself a bit clearer. Stoke came about from the same people who wanted to clean the game up back in the 1860s, So for them to play the brand/tactics they do is some what of a slap in the face to those that founded their club (hence conundrum). Next time you hear Stoke fans state they are one of the first clubs. Ask them how that came about and are they living up to the expectations of their founders?

  • bob

    Cameron,
    Imo, I think Stoke fans boo because (as many know deep down, and as they have been criticized widely) Aaron Ramsey (the Welsh captain!) is a walking moral indictment of their tribe. Of their coach and his strategy and best player – of everything they stand for and that gives their too much meaning to too many of their, yes, sad – and angry – lives. They would will Ramsey into vapor. Indeed, given what his presence says about their past, they would vaporize him. But since they can’t legally, they revert to blaming the victim and make him the villain.

    This is mental illness. Groupthink, and so it’s normal because so many of them engage in it. Who would have the courage to not participate or to say stop it, when most around them are up to their eyeballs in the collective venom. Booing Ramsey helps them male-bond, expel the sissy, and gives them a meaning that’s otherwise gone missing. And their dear leader (and Fergie’s lap dog) just said today that he can’t control it, I pays it no mind, he says. And their dear leading player – on the national team! – does literally nothing to wave off the booing, or signal to damp it down. Nothing. There’s not a shred of decency in either of them. (Oh he called Aaron in the hospital, but the sissy boy wont man enough to take me call.)

    They have reveled in kicking people to the curb and stomping them when they’re down. And they have been seen as such. They did and do unto Ramsey what life in Stoke has done to them. They should be hard done by that life, but they are and take out their resentment in this misguided circus minimus way. Surely it is a relief and release to them to find a whipping boy; and to pretend, by the whipping/booing, to feel that sense of empowerment that is actually denied them in everyday life. Rather than identify and target the real source(s) of their discontent – and which they are too afraid and cowardly to properly target – they vomit on Arsene and Aaron.

    Ok, I’m no expert, but what I see is twisted and I’m trying to figure it out too. I mean something beyond calling them sad. Yes, they are sad. But it’s more than just that. There’s a why and a wherefore. And what I mainly see is that their behavior is wolfish and pre-Weimar – if you catch my drift on this term. Many Thanks for the article, Cameron. A really good think piece that matters.

  • bob

    Adam,
    Surely you’re right about their betrayal of these roots. But what’s awful is that if you were to see this to their faces, they would do you (and me) like Shawcross done (and they continue to do to) Aaron. This is collective madness being normalized into tribalism and manly. People having reached this stage of shameless public behavior – which they feel entitled to, somehow wronged by outsiders who slate them for it – are not reachable by pointing to their very different and honorable past. Individually yes; but not as a group (pre-Weimar wolfpack). Not a very good advert for more human possibilities.

  • robl

    So Bob, I take it you won’t be holidaying in the potteries this year?

  • bob

    I’m all for booing RVP. It makes public our feeling betrayed. It is a way to draw a line in the sand against celebrity-athletes who chronically use their clubs and fans’ emotional investment in them (which they cultivate) as stepping stones only to feather their nests. It is a way to say that your choice in going to our worst enemy and shamelessly calling it “listening to my inner child” will now be awarded with the nasty worst of our inner child. It is a way to say no to the celebrity-athelete’s culture of total self-entitlement. It is a way to let their predator agents know that they cannot violate us and have you get away with telling your client that don’t worry, they’ll soon forget and remember you well after it all blows over. No. I say booing means saying NO and meaning it. Part of having a long memory. Drawing a line. Asserting self-respect and standing up for our team against its current and would-be traitors from within.

  • bob

    robl,
    You know, now that you put it that way, I sure could use that (in fact ANY) holiday! 🙂

  • allezkev

    Had a very tasty Balti chicken pie at the ground.
    Spoke to a couple of the stewards before kick-off and they seemed quite normal.
    Then the game started and the true face of your average Potteries football fan emerged.
    And what a sad bunch they are.
    I sincerely hope that Stoke are relegated this season.
    The EPL does not need their stone age football.
    Nor their talentless manager.
    Or lastly their Neanderthal fans.

  • Adam

    @Allezkev, Bit of a harsh out look on our cousins (the Neanderthals I mean) comparing them with those from up there north. After all when the Neandethals passed into history Stoke was under a Kilometer of ice. Oh how I miss those times.

  • allezkev

    Yeah Adam, maybe I was a little OTT.
    But the pie was delicious…

    Gotta say that I thought our back-four were superb.

  • bob

    Adam,
    When prehistoric Stoke emerged from the ice bogs, it seems obvious that their hearts and minds remained encased in ice. Go Neanderthals! (the real ones)

  • Ryan Shawcross

    What a fair and well balanced article, well done young man.

  • americangooner

    there should not be any disagreement that shawcross is a horrible player. he simply doesnot understand the ethics of a proper tackle. and the reason he will remain a horrible player is that tony pulis is a pussy. pulis is always defending shawcross, ALWAYS. before ramsey he made a horrible tackle on jeffers, former arsenal player, and after ramsey he injured adebayor. adebayor was alreay out of the field. what in the world describes the challenge on adebayor, maybe in a parallel universe. Shawcross is a horrendous player as put by the video on this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9FJKunkmKQ

  • ARSENAL 13

    I dont understand what stoke fans are trying to prove.

    HAD this happened out side the field, it would count as a physical assault.

    I dont see a 50/50. Its a clear lunge. It was a reckless challenge. ANY player at this level will know, a highish footed challenge will lead to an injury if not a leg break.

    Ramsey has done nothing wrong by not accepting an apology. By remaining silent he has shown a high level of professionalism which these stupid stokies just wont understand.

  • Macho

    Stoke as a club is not a symbol of football. Club like Arsenal, Barcelona that is playing free flow, entertaiment,value for money football will obviously be envied by patternless and physical team like Stoke and the only way to show their displeasure is by breaking thier legs. If once it can be seen as mistake but trice it is nothing but tradition. Very soon they will go back to where they came from cos they are not premiership stuff.

  • jaroda

    Let’s take the positives from the game.
    1. We didn’t concede.
    2. No Arsenal players went home in an ambulance (tis a minor miracle as TV5 was close to losing everything below the shin at the end there)

    Stoke are a disgrace to football, sport and humanity. If the UN weren’t so busy with Syria, the potteries would be the next stop.

  • ARSENAL 13

    today in an Indian news paper..”GIROUD, THE NEW CHAMAK!..It looks like Olivier Giroud, brought in to match RVPs deeds, will end up ‘challenging’ Chamaks. For the second season running, Arsenal has failed to score in its opening two league games, a record that may continue unless Wenger find the right hitman.”

    does he even know what he is writing. looks like the whole world is against us.

  • Georgaki-Pyrovolitis

    To any Stoke fans that happen to stumble across this blog, click on the link below and then come back here and continue to justify yourselves:

    http://www.express.co.uk/ourcomments/view/342434

  • WalterBroeckx

    Between mostly comments filled with hate against Ramsey I have seen a few others.

    I would like to thank the few Stoke fans who came here who have agreed that booing Ramsey is not done. I’ve never been to Stoke or know the city or the region at all. I had nothing against Stoke before the incident at all. But some of you are giving your city and club a real bad name.

    I admire those few for rowing up against what seems to be the stream in Stoke.
    And it somehow makes me feel good to read such opinions from Stoke fans.
    I think if all Stoke fans were like you there would be no more bad blood between Arsenal supporters and Stoke supporters.
    Just as there is no more such a thing between Sunderland and Arsenal.
    Birmingham is a bit special as they kept on continuing and with success trying breaking our players legs even after Eduardo. Just ask Fabregas, Sagna,…

    I just hope that the more sensible Stoke fans can get the upper hand and start to stop this. But when I look around I’m afraid you are still a minority amongst Stoke fans.

  • Cameron Wolfe

    Like Walter I’d like to thank the Stoke fans who commented.T here were a few nice comments from Stoke fans trying to distance themsleves from the Booing.
    The Stoke manager was asked about the current situation yesterday

    He said:
    “Irrespective of what I say you can’t affect what people do. I can’t affect it I don’t worry about it and I personally don’t think I can affect it.”

    “That’s got to be other people doing that not me and that’s got to be something that happens outside my sphere.

    “You can say and I’ve said it before. That’s gone. We’ve moved on.”

    Unfortunately even after Sunday’s match he doesn’t condon it. He just says he can’t do anything about it.

    I think he needs to try a little harder outside his sphere!

  • Adam

    Shawcross is a finer player than Ramsey will ever be!!
    @Dave (with a club) Is that why Alex Ferguson let Shawcross leave Old Trafford but wanted to sign Ramsey?

  • Dec

    Neanderthals 3. V Swindon 4
    Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

    Stoke out of the league cup now, hopefully out of the Premier league next May.
    Bye bye Ryan, you won’t be missed. 🙂

  • bob

    Dec,
    Speaking in the evolutionary sense, I’d observe that Stoke aren’t evolved enough to lick Neanderthals… Let’s leave it at that. 🙂

  • Dec

    Nuff said Bob.

  • elkieno

    For what it’s worth I say this…
    Ramsey and Shawcross are professional players, so if try get booedby who ever then they should be able to take it.
    I live Arsenal with every fibre of my being. I will defend it till u die, right or wrong rats how I feel.
    Stoke fans are no different to me or any other fan.
    So why don’t Arsene, Ramsey, pulis and Ryan and myself, sit down and smoke a big fuck off Joint, a carton of Tooheys New, get hammered and pen a letter to the media saying how they all just G-Ups trying to flog off some rags. Oh and we can payout on Spurs too. They (TP & RS) wil join in after such bonding when we tell then how stupid spurs are.
    That will sort this mess out.
    COYG!!

  • @ Ryan Shawcross at 12.54am

    Yellow ‘smiley’ face!
    (sorry, don’t know how to make one).

  • Paul "the Gooner"

    Stoke will never change aslong as Pullis and Kemp are their.My second team is Plymouth having spent 8 years there.I saw both of them at Plymouth and it was awful.Kick and run.
    My nephew was working in catering at Wembley when the shit got into the semi finals recently.He said the supporters were total scum.He was spat at,had a tray of food knocked out of his hands and was verbally abused! and that was the women.I think they will struggle this season, good.

  • al

    Stoke fans saying they blame Ramsey for Shawcross’s omission from the Welsh squad are just looking for excuses; Aaron started getting targeted by stoke fans way before Coleman was manager. The reason these lunatics despise us is we are at the opposite ends of the football spectrum; we play the most attractive football in the prem while they play the worst. Hope they get relegated this season, about time they went back where they belong.