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Black scarf movement. Are they the fans voice of red and white holdings?

Black scarf movement.   Are they the fans’ voice of red and white holdings?

By Cameron Wolfe

Here’s a statement from the BSM:

—–

We are calling for a gathering of BSM members and supporters on 1 December, before the Swansea match, to join us on a walk to ‘Bear Roundabout’ outside The Armoury.

The objectives of this walk are to heighten the Board’s awareness in the following areas:

We want Stan Kroenke’s commitment not to take money from the club.

We want Peter Hill-Wood off the Board. He has become an embarrassment to the club and its supporters.

We want Red & White Holdings to be offered a seat on the Board.

Ivan Gazidis called for us to all come together and work in the same direction but how does this work when a 30% shareholder in the club doesn’t get to have a say?

In what other large business would this blocking of a major shareholder happen?

We want action from the club to stop poor allocation of our money.

From wasting money on players we have to write off a year later, to handing out huge contracts to players who we can’t then sell on because nobody will match what we pay.

Its mismanagement and it’s the fans who get hit in the pocket because the club fails in other revenue generating areas such as commercial deals.

—————–

On their website they also think it would be a great idea if for a home game all the Arsenal supporters boycotted the game and just marched outside? That would show the whole world how unhappy current Arsenal fans are. So even though you’ve already paid for your ticket. Don’t use it. Stand outside and protest. Nice “supporters”

Seems to me that it’s a little bit too much of a coincidence that a movement that sprung up three years ago would outline and ask for certain conditions to happen within the Arsenal board. These would all benefit the red and white movement and Usamov in particular.

Their asking for Kroenke not too take any money out of the club? He’s the majority share holder. Not the sole owner. He’s not the Glaziers. He can’t just roll up one day and ask for a ton of cash so he can transfer it to one of his other businesses.  It doesn’t work like that. If Kroenke was in it solely for the money he could sell his shares openly or to Usamov and make plenty of profit from them.

They want PHW sacked. He is not in charge of any day-to-day business at the club, which is generally run by CEO Ivan Gazidis. Is it personal? If he has day to day dealings within the club, then an argument could take place.  But he’s already sold off most of his shares in the club then surely he’s just the historic face of Arsenal, tracing a family connection back to the days when Sir Henry Norris was overthrown.  Does he deserve to be sacked on the say so of an unofficial “supporters club”?

They want Usamov (red and white holdings) on the Board.   Isn’t that up to the current board to vote him on to the board? Even though they hold a 30% holding in Arsena, owning any part of Arsenal doesn’t automatically entitle you to a seat on the board – unless you organise a takeover, which Mr Usmanov  could do at any time given his wealth.  It is Mr Usmanov’s decision not to attempt a takeover that has led us to this position.

Even Kroenke was invited to join the board. In most legal systems, the appointment and removal of directors is voted upon by the shareholders in a general meeting. So the other directors need to invite Usamov on to the board. Obviously at present they’re not keen on him joining them. It’s their prerogative.

On Usamov having his say? Think back to his open letter in the Summer. I think Usamov is heard very loudly when he wants to be. He is in the same boat as Kroenke though. He could easily sell some of his shares and make a healthy profit or buy more and force a takeover vote.

On him being blocked… In any other business where the Board doesn’t want a particular person on the Board, they won’t ask them on to the board. (The law on this is actually quite clear within the Companies Act, and Arsenal have acted totally within the law throughout).

Poor allocation of “our money” ? Wasted money on players/wages. Club mismanagement? Unfortunately it’s like voting in MP’s. Their charged with running the country and hope they do the best for you. Our club’s the same.  But really to get a perspective on this, Arsenal has to be compared with other clubs.  Other clubs make mistakes, give contracts to players who turn out not to be so good etc etc.  Only a proper analysis would work here.

You hope that the management are going to do the best for the club/players/supporters. If they don’t then yes, give up your season ticket.  Sell it to someone else who wants to go to the match and watch Arsenal play. Don’t watch them on TV. Take to watching something else. Support another sport.

It’s only my opinion ( which each of us is entitled too) but protesting is just like booing your team. It’s the worst form of “supporting” your team. Will it make a difference? Will someone from the Board come out and talk to the leaders? Who knows only time will tell. Me come the 1st of December I’ll be glued to the screen watching my beloved Arsenal hopefully playing fantastic football against Swansea.

Gooner for life!

——————————–

The books…

The sites…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

148 comments to Black scarf movement. Are they the fans voice of red and white holdings?

  • Micko

    I think the BSM have been influenced by all the negativity in the Media and the propaganda coming out of Red & White Holdings, or is that the same thing !

  • Stroller

    Isn’t this a repeat of the so-called ‘black bag’ protest last season which fell as flat as a pancake?

    If Red and White Holdings are behind it then they should at least front it themselves and not hide behind the pretence that is a fans protest.

    Incidentally have Red & Whie or Usmanov ever come out an openly stated they would like a seat on the Board?

  • julz

    I have to agreed with Micko but something is wrong in this club is not clear enough who is in charge: The Board? AW? Gazidis?

  • Andy Kelly

    It sounds like the tail wants to wag the dog.

  • IHateUntoldArsenal

    you have the worst Arsenal blog ever.

    EDITORIAL COMMENT: The writer of this email not only hid behind a silly name, he she or it could not even manage to put up a proper email address to show the source. It says quite a lot I think that we are getting more and more of these emails. Mostly they just get junked but I thought one example might be worth seeing.

  • GoonerPete

    I don’t think they are the mouthpiece of Usmanov.

    BSM are just a section of fans who have had enough of our current malaise.. read Groundhog day.

    Some of the things they ask for a completely reasonable.
    Arsenal fans are fleeced of their money for example. IF the club are never going to re-invest our ticket / merchandising / £4.50 hot dog money back into the playing side then they should drop the freaking prices. Yeah after year our best players leave, the club ALWAYS make a profit and never re-invest that money back into the team.

    Every year the team get worse, and yet we still pay through the nose for it.

    There are other things I agree with from BSM, but I have to get back to work.

  • kiety

    I agree with goonerpete. and i wholeheartedly agree with the mandate proposed by BSM.

    Kroenke is in for the money, you say he can easily sell his shares to Usmanov and make profit but thats not what hes after, hes after the long term profit year in year out of selling our best players. he doesnt have a clue, winning things would make him more money.

  • Dave

    BSM has nothing to do wtih R&W. They are not calling for Usmanov to be on the board. They’ve asked for a representative of R&W (could that be Dein?). Common decency to ask an organisation with almosst 30% shareholding to be asked. Kroenke was.

    This movement has been growing for three years with various suggestions made to the club regarding improving the matchday experience for fans that spend their money going to games, ie. season ticket lite (no cup vouchers), more tickets available for schoolkids etc.

    The reason behind the march is down to the utter contempt shown by the board to very good questions at the AGM. They ignored them.

    If no-one stands up to the way the board is running this club then be prepared for much of the same. Further ticket price increases with nothing to show for it.

    Anyone trying to claim it’s anything other than what has been published is severely mistaken.

    Our best players are sold off every year. Champagne prices, lemonade football.

  • Fred

    man u r in denial!nothing good will come out of arsenal with the current board and management!we are heading the liverpool way!i dont know how long you guys are going to cling to arsene knows!he used to,but nowadays i doubt it! he is just a pale shadow of the guy who coached the unbeaten arsenal!truth be told!can any arsenal bet on them winning any trophy anytime soon?the optimism that was there died a long time ago with the continuous sale of key players and purchase of mediocre ones and not correcting past mistakes!our goalkeepers are an embarrassment,a problem we have had for more than 7yrs!cant we learn anything?its only at arsenal that being in top four is considered a trophy!that must be the joke of the year!it is sad arsenal are being taken for a ride by the powers that be!gazidis salary is being increased while that for players becomes a 1yr issue!where r our priorities!who do we need most?sagna,walcot,etc

  • Matt

    Some fans want Wenger & The Board to some want them to stay.Some blogs want them to go and some want them to stay and are unbalanced in there views.

    Nobody can be happy with the way Arsenal FC is currently being run something needs to change but actually getting rid of the whole board and Weger is probably unrealistic.I mean who really has confidence in Kroenke,Gazidis and PHW.

    Lots of fans feel like they are being fleeced and are unhappy with lots of the things and The Black scarf represent those fans who there are more and more of.

  • Andy

    You say you will be glued to the screen watching your beloved arsenal… its not on telly! some supporter eh! lol

    EDITORIAL COMMENT: This is typical of the closed vision of some supporters. Andy you have no idea which country the writer lives in – and yet you make a judgement.

  • kiety

    i hate getting brushed off at the AGM’s like as if we mean nothing, dont our views count for anything?

    we are just getting milked year in year out.

  • Andy Kelly

    kiety

    Can you explain how Kroenke is making any money out of the current situation.

  • john

    I support arsenal football club not gazidis and kronky business

  • A. Stewart

    Regardless of if RWH are behind/supporting/influencing the BSM ..something that I really think is offensive and dismissive by a sect of the Arsenal base is this meme that the media or someother outside forces are responsible for some fans being upset with the current direction of the club. As though it’s impossible for fans (many of them long-time fans for many many decades) to be able to think for themselves, and come to their own conclusions and have their own opinions about what they are unhappy with at the club without being “manipulated” by some external nefarious factors..

    Is it not possible that some fans through their own volition and borne from their own genuine frustration could want to consider RWH as a possible alternative, by deciding that for themselves after examining the current situation and examining RHW’s proposals, or simply being willing to try a change? To some, of course not, can a fan be free-willed or individually smart enough or independent thinking to want/consider something different to what is currently in-place.

  • kiety

    Andy,
    Kronke is a sports moghul, he invests in profitable ventures, if he is not investing for profit and is stating that hes not taking a dividend, then what is his motive?
    Maybe im confused, can you explain to me how hes not making money and his motives are?

  • Scott

    “the appointment and removal of directors is voted upon by the shareholders in a general meeting” exactly, so why not let a 30% SHAREHOLDER be part of the general meeting?

    “We want Peter Hill-Wood off the Board. He has become an embarrassment to the club and its supporters” FACT!! no-one can dispute this.

    “Their asking for Kroenke not too take any money out of the club” whats wrong with asking that, when in the AGM this very simple question was asked to the man himself and he couldn’t give a straight answer whether he would or wouldn’t?

    Maybe BSM is a front for Red & White, but the point remains, all the questions are totally valid, they are all concerns that we as fans have over the welfare of our club!

  • Shard

    kiety,

    Of course Kroenke is in it for the money? I for one don’t see anything wrong with that. But how is he making money off of selling our players? None of that money goes to him. It stays at the club.

  • Shard

    *No question mark at the end of the first sentence.

  • atid

    i am so peed off with the amount of people asking for changes, when it is clear that they do not have a clue.

    take kiety
    how does selling our best players make profit for kroenke?
    kroenke, will only make personal gain from selling his shares and from any salary/bonus he is paid from being an employee.

    take matt
    he claims that nobody can be happy with the way the club is being run?
    well as a shareholder myself i can tell you i am very happy with the way the club is being run. sure i am not currently happy with performances on the pitch but that is where everybody differs on who is to blame.

    i have seen far less fruitful periods than the last 10 years, i recall us being a few points off relegation one season, i recall a period of arsenal not winning the title for 18 years, i recall watchinbg arsenal when it was rare for us to field more than 2 full internationals. none of these times were under the current management regime, nor were they whilst under the ownership of kroenke, nor the operating of the current CEO.

    why is people only look at the last 7 seasons to judge? why not 10 seasons? or 20? or 50? I will tell you why, because then the arguments do not stack up so nicely.

    however, for the benefit of the doom mongerers lets look at who has actually won a major domestic trophy in the last 7 seasons.

    Of the 92 english league teams only 3 different clubs have won the premier league.

    Of the 92 english league teams only 4 different clubs have won the fa cup.

    Of the 92 english league teams only 5 different clubs have won the league cup.

    Of the 92 english league teams, arsenal is one of 85 clubs that have not won at least one of the 3 major domestic trophies. increase that to 8 seasons and we are no longer in the 85, hence the doom mongerers only like use 7 seasons as a marker

    however that all changes when you extend that to 11 seasons, its just that the doom mongerers, dont like including 4 more seasons as it makes the club look good with 3 fa cup wins and 2 titles

  • Shard

    GoonerPete

    “IF the club are never going to re-invest our ticket / merchandising / £4.50 hot dog money back into the playing side then they should drop the freaking prices.”

    Ticket prices are the result of demand and supply. Always have been. In fact, I guarantee Arsenal can charge higher prices than they do and still have enough demand. (Though that would be difficult to sustain over a long period)

  • gooner87

    Wow someone watches too many conspiracy films! Firstly For years i have sat and defended the board. Thought they knew best etc. I was disgusted that usmanov came out publicly with that letter. However i cant argue with what the BSM are protesting. Hill-Wood regardless of whether he does anything should step down after his comments. The board needs to change. We don’t spend our money wisely. Moving to the Emirates was meant to bring financial power, now i understand we didnt bank on Chelsea and City getting pumped full of money and i dont want the same to be done to Arsenal. But how is it we dont even compete with with Everton and Sp*rs for players now ! They keep their players and aren’t pressured to selling them, and if they do they have enough time on their contract to get good money.

    Someone has a lot of questions to answer with how this club is being run. But i think we’re in all in the dark to who that is be it Wenger or the board. All i’m going on is that Wenger has been our most successful manager , recently he has had pennies to work with, but when he spends money and keeps a team together he can challenge. I just feel he needs to be challenged and hasn’t been since David Dein departed in 2005 ( we havent won anything since).

    Now i’m not saying bring Dein back, but we need someone like him around the club, someone who will fight against the austerity of the fat cats that run this club and actually look after the most important part about this club, the TEAM and its FANS. If BSM are marching to change this then i gotta say i think it shows they care, it isn’t a knee jerk reaction its a build up of the last 3 seasons where we have missed out on the chance to push forward with money to spend and instead lost 4 World class performers. We are in danger of becoming Liverpool at this rate.

  • Andy Kelly

    kiety

    He is not making money at present because he has forked out several hundred million pounds to buy shares from Fiszman, Bracewell-Smith and the board but he is not taking any money out of the club.

  • WalterBroeckx

    If only we could have “like” buttons Tony….

    ati d, I like it.

    I think nobody is happy with the way things have gone the last 7 days. The end is near…..

    By the way your facts are eye openers…. but that is only for those who want to see of course.

  • Scott

    @atid “Of the 92 english league teams, arsenal is one of 85 clubs that have not won at least one of the 3 major domestic trophies. increase that to 8 seasons and we are no longer in the 85” out of those 92 english clubs, Arsenal make the biggest profit from sales of players vs re-investment of new players!

    “how does selling our best players make profit for kroenke?
    kroenke, will only make personal gain from selling his shares and from any salary/bonus he is paid from being an employee.” obviously profit from player sales that gets stored in the bank at the end of the day makes the club and the shares there of more financially profitable therefore making Kroenke and the rest of you shareholders more money, so you know what, you all can go to hell as you are what is killing our club!!!

  • Andrew Ryan

    If you listened to the Tuesday Club you would hear about the real black scarf organisation.

  • doctore

    I think the board badly needs someone like usmanov in there,someone with a different view of things,not just yes-men,that kick in the behind,I think the protest march is a great idea and just what we need.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Not sure they are the voice of Usmanov, but they may well be influenced by him, they certainly do not seem to have any time at all for the current board. Most big clubs have fans who feel disconnected and disenfranchised, sometimes, these have been fans for a long time. It does not help that we are not wildly successful at the moment, and we keep losing our best players.
    In fairness to the BSM, they state that they back the team and the manager, as a body they distance themselves from the Wenger out bunch, they say they are against greed (So that means they should be against the likes of Usmanov) and against the board taking advantage of the fans..amongst other issues. They have a point on some issues, but I disagree with the PHW issue, he is just a figurehead, and one who clearly loves the club. According to one blog “An analogue man in a digital world”. He certainly should not, nor will he be sacked. Just seems like he is an easy target…a lightening conductor for all our ills. Fans have the right to peaceful protest, and I can see how some feel disconnected. We all have a choice…mine will be backing the team and not worrying about PHW on that day. I have a few reservations about the current owner, but things that are wrong can be put right in training, on the pitch and if required, in Jan. PHW has nothing to do with it

  • Stroller

    Has not Usmanov stated that his interest in Arsenal is primarily as an investor? By definition that means he is looking for a return at some point. I fail to see how that makes him any different from Kroenke (who incidentally hasn’t aken any money out of the club yet).

    Neither of these guys are sugar-daddys. They are both businessmen with the same mentaility. The difference is on approach where Kroenke believes in self-sustainability while Usmanov would raise capital through share issues. (But even if he were on the Board this couldn’t happen without agreement from all the other shareholders).

  • luke

    Seems the writer of this article doesn’t really understand the various points of the march.

    An example being this,’Their asking for Kroenke not too take any money out of the club? He’s the majority share holder. Not the sole owner. He’s not the Glaziers. He can’t just roll up one day and ask for a ton of cash so he can transfer it to one of his other businesses’

    He could take money out of the club via dividends. The club does not currently pay out dividends to shareholders, and when pressed at the AGM Kroenke refused to deny he would in future.

    The above is an example of various errors in this article.

    Poor.

  • WalterBroeckx

    So would having Usmanov on the board suddenly make us win all our games?

  • Mandy Dodd

    Can see him working in a back 3 Walter

  • WalterBroeckx

    He would cover a lot of pitch maybe but not sure if he would cover a lot of ground 😉

  • A. Stewart

    “So would having Usmanov on the board suddenly make us win all our games?
    ..”

    There is absolutely no-one who thinks that…people wanting change from the (stagnant imo) status-quo or considering change are not the irrational unrealistic bunch that they are made out to be.

    Frankly I think most who want change would accept that there will be a transition phase of expected growing pains, and do not expect things to turn around overnight.

    Similarly, people asking for more investment, are not asking us to throw money around like City or Chelsea, or asking us to waste money on overpriced players like Liverpool, or are not wishing the club to go bankrupt or “do a Leeds or Portsmouth.”

    Likewise people who question Wenger’s recent and current effectiveness are generally not glory-hunting ungrateful cretins who do not recognize the great things he has done for the club.

    I’ll just never understand the need for attaching hyperbolic dismissive sarcasm to those with a different opinion or view.

    Everyone wants the same thing, success for Arsenal, some just disagree on how it should be done, or perhaps who should lead us there.

    Geez.

  • Shard

    A.Stewart

    “Frankly I think most who want change would accept that there will be a transition phase of expected growing pains, and do not expect things to turn around overnight.”

    What makes you so sure that what we are experiencing now aren’t growing pains?

    Also, I agree with your point about hyperbole. But we do not know WHY the money isn’t being spent. Maybe we tried but the other clubs simply outbid us. Wenger did say that we’d met the 32m asking price for Hazard but that the wages on offer elsewhere were what we could not match. You may choose to disbelieve that, but that does seem to fit with the financial situation as far as we know. We can pay high transfer fees, but not the wages. (Oh and the 32m was a buyout clause or else other clubs could have gone higher and we wouldn’t have been able to match them)

    ANother possible reason for not spending includes knowing that even if we spend our entire cash reserve now, it will not be enough to win the league. Instead the club opts to build up the reserve (while staying at the CL level) until we can launch a spending spree enough to give us a boost to the top. This might be helped by FFP coming in.

    What other reason can you think for why Arsenal may not be spending the money they have available?

  • kiety

    Atid,

    im sorry you feel this way, you may be right in that i may not be as knowledgble as you with respect to arsenals history, but then again i may not have been around as long as you or have been supporting arsenal as long as you.

    Please tell me, will Kroenke not make profit indirectly from group exposure and the financial prudence and stability that arsenal boast, something that kronke has inherited. will this not surely result in increased share value and in the long run mean profit? maybe not directly from player sales but showing good yields from product (player) sales for a company surely bodes well for an increase in share value, something a investor takes a keen eye to.

    at the end of the day i dont really care about the profit realisation for shareholders, yes it maybe sound investment, yes its good that we dont need huge investment to get results, yes, we have had loads of other periods where we were struggling, yes, yes yes, but i interpret your mentality as your content from being title pushers to 4th spot pusher, on the contrary im not. i want to go forward, whilst i know this isnt possible every season, why do we have to keep going backwards year in year out to a point we should be just content with 4th spot. we use to exude confidence, we use to have the mentality of no fear, of beating anyone, am i wrong?

    i may not have been supporting arsenal as long as you and im still young, but my frustrations vent from being a top flight team from an era where billionaires werent pumping billions around, to a team owned by not one but TWO billionaires, a team that shows large operating profit but with half a squad leaching wages that can be used elsewhere not to mention gazidis and aw taking record breaking wages, a team for a long time now have had near misses in winning the title when it was plain to see that the squad was just short and that these near misses could have been converted into hits if only we invested into one or two world class players. this short sightedness has consequently led to players going on the hunt for success elsewhere.

    This my fellow arsenal supporter Atid is what im peed about, i may not have a clue, i may not have been around as long as you, i’m not a glory hunter, im passionate and i want my club to do well not just fiscally but on the battlefields. even if we dont win, i want to say we were in with a chance, we battled it out, but at the moment realistically we’re not.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Hey PL clubs working on 3 ways in cutting spending…. FFP, spending cap on wages and making owners responsible even if they left the club to pay the high wages they have agreed.

    Just imagine Gazidis is right after all…. http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11661/8250091/Premier-League-put-forward-proposals-to-introduce-Financial-Fair-Play-regulations

    Notice also MU is in favour…. Come on Fergies rent boys do your job 😉

  • R.P

    Another piece filled with what seems like fear. The opinion that supporters that protest are not real fans is frankly ridiculous and ranks of lazy journalism.

    I tire of bloggers who hide behind their ivory tower-like screens and ‘opine’ on a subject without checking the facts.

    Mr Wolfe says ” On their website they also think it would be a great idea if for a home game all the Arsenal supporters boycotted the game and just marched outside?”

    Try as I might I cannot find that on the website. Unless of course Mr Wolfe is quoting a fan opinion on the comments page. A little bit naughty Mr Wolfe- if you want to know what the groups aims are then suggest you go to that page. There’s also a page called ‘Campaigns’- have a look at that too.

    I have no problem if supporters do not agree with the BSM. I try to respect all opinions but when a piece is written which is factually wrong even to a small degree then I do question the motives of the writer.

    If you support the BSM’s aims then great. If you dont then thats fine too.

  • bjtgooner

    At present the ambition of Usmanov seems to be a having a destabilizing influence on the club. The suggestion that he would invest in the club seems to have befogged the thinking of the weak minded.

    Too many of the AAA types cannot see or do not want to see the consequences of Usmanov controlling the club – for controlling the club is what he wants – a seat on the board is only a stepping stone. Will he put a small amount of money in to try to show he is a good guy – possible, will a much larger sum of money go out Glazier style – very very likely.

    The reason why Stan is under such an orchestrated attack is more to do with the ambition of Usmanov rather than anything Stan has done – its a propaganda hatchet job. I have seen this type of thing before, but outside football.

    Is Usmanov using the BSM? Are they blindly supporting him without any direct contact? Are there links between BSM and other anti Wenger groups? Each of us can have our own opinion & unless involved no one really knows. But there does seem to a level of coordination between some AAA utterances, press statements and the direction in which Usmanov wants the club to go. I wonder is he in a hurry to do some washing.

  • Shard

    bjtgooner

    Do you remember the open letter R&W came out with? There was one part in it which caught my eye then.

    “It appears that a place in the Champions League will be the pinnacle of our ambition again next season. Unfortunately, in the future we may see this ambition lowered further.”

    What in your opinion does that mean? At the time I read it as a threat. I still think it reads like one.

  • Stuart

    At the end of the day, with ffp looming, if Usmanov wanted to fund player purchases, he’d use one of his companies to boost our commercial deals by sponsoring the corner flags for a large sum. As an owner he soon won’t be able to put much in.

    I don’t for a second believe he has our best interests at heart.

  • R.P

    I note with interest that my original reply has not been approved- not toeing the party line I guess?

  • Shard

    Aah, but Stuart. In their open letter, R&W also criticised the board for seeking sponsorship from one of the Usmanov’s companies. Far be it for him to actually put his money where his mouth is. I don’t know why it’s assumed that Usmanov will be the sugar daddy that some people want. He’s never actually said that’s the model he’ll follow. His behaviour hasn’t been consistent with that approach. Plus of course, he did ask for dividends at one point.

  • S

    Comment blocked as not from a valid email address

  • lew1234

    Why have you moderated a perfectly reasonably reply from one of the Blackscarf movement? A right of reply to some of the things written above would seem appropriate.

    https://twitter.com/rajpatel1809/status/269191788164694016/photo/1

  • Stuart

    At the moment, I think BSM stands for ‘bull shit merchants’ although Mandy, your comment is quite reassuring. I’d like to hear their full proposal if it is constructive (something which red & white isn’t)

    The ideal IMO would be for the club to go into fan ownership.

  • Andrew Richards

    This blinkered view that the issues of the club have nothing to do with any of us is naive and frankly makes me wonder if this is a blog by someone who is a real supporter of the club or someone who is in this silly “blog union” that thinks that everything is fine. Well I guess if you can take the team being average due to restrictions of money while the board laughs in our faces then maybe a look in the mirror needs taking. I also feel that football is all about the fans and that when business acumen is more abundant than them then something has to be done, being quiet is not an option when you have the emotional attachment thousands of us have. It’s disappointing that your blog has tried to cause trouble when as fans we need to come together to take the club back. Your view seems odd but your more than entitled to it without making up stories that don’t resemble facts.

  • bjtgooner

    @Shard

    You have a really good memory! The phrase in the R&W open letter could be read as a threat – was the letter saying – you will not be allowed to get to 4th place in the future?

    The inference would be that R&W plan to weaken the team and remove the manager as a prerequisite to take over. If correct, R&W would feel confident when making that statement that certain agents/advisers were on board or could be bought.

    Dangerous times.

  • WalterBroeckx

    lew1234,
    maybe contrary to the rumours spouted by some we are not paid by Arsenal. So we do have to do other things to make a living. We also have families and friends in real live. So maybe non of us moderators was on line for a while when his first comment was posted.

    Goodnight to you know. In my part of the world it is bed time. So nor more moderating from now on. See you tomorrow

  • Embarrassed Gonner

    You say protesting is like booing your own team. Is that what fans from every team do already when their team is playing back…I’m disgusted that your an arsenal fan. Just sit back and watch arsenal turn into Liverpool. Is that what you’ll like???????

  • Cameron Wolfe

    @RP and lew1234
    You can post any comment you wish about anything I’ve wrtten. I ahve evry broad shoulders. As stated by Walter we’re not paid by AFC or UA. I write articles about Arsenal and football because it’s my hobby. Arsenal are the team I support.
    Not sure if you noticed but your comment is published @ 9.35
    To my knowledge Tony/Walter will publish all comments unless they’re abusive. After they’ve been moderated.
    Whether or not the comment about protesting outside the ground instead of watching comes directly from the BSM it was certainly published and quoted off the website. All the above quotes/information was gathered from there.
    As you rightly point out we’re all entitled to our own opinion.
    The article is purely my own.
    Gooner for life!

  • R.P

    You’re going to have to show me where it was published Cameron. You’ve referred to it in your ‘blog’ so now that Ive asked the question you need to show us where you saw it as you now suggest its not on the BSM site. Show me where the BSM calls for a boycott. If you can’t then suggest a retraction is merited?

    Oh and it wasnt published at 9.35pm. You all sat there twiddling your thumbs trying to wrk out if it should be approved or not. In the meantime you approved others.

    Allow all the right to reply please.

    Again, your opinion is exactly that- on this occasion however you’ve misled your readers.

  • Mick

    @kiety
    ‘ why do we have to keep going backwards year in year out to a point we should be just content with 4th spot.’
    We came third last year and fourth the season before, so how is that going backwards. Just asking. Surely if we were going backwards we should have finished seventh or eighth last season shouldn’t we.
    Furthermore when has anyone at the club said that they are ‘content’ with finishing fourth? Finishing top four is the first aim, that is all.

  • Cameron Wolfe

    @RP
    I’m going to assume by lew1234 comment that you’re one of the people behind the BSM?
    Here’s another quote from your site
    “Far too many tourists and wannabes. Our traditional fan base is leaving in droves when it comes to home games.
    I believe I speak for the vast majority of true Arsenal fans when I say “We want OUR Arsenal back”.
    Again quoted from your website.
    So anyone who attends an Arsenal match isn’t a real supporter unless they’re what? Vetted first by a member of the BSM?
    I’d say that anyone who turns up at the Ems. to watch and cheer on Arsenal is a supporter.
    When the writer speaks for the vast majority of Arsenal fans. I think you’ll find the vast majority of Arsenal fans get no where near the Ems. every other Saturday.
    If you’re speaking about the fans in the pubs around the ground explaining where Arsenal are going wrong. I’m sure every single supporter can say where Arsenal are going wrong. Whether they’re right or not is another story.
    I watch with interest to see if your campaign amounts to or changes anything. Maybe you’ll be as successful as the Blackburn protesters.

  • R.P

    Vetted? All posts are approved whether pro or against. No editing.

    I’ll ask you again where does it say that the BSM are calling for a boycott. Its a simple question, Cameron.

    Can I write your next blog? I want to do an article on the BSM and how they are a Wenger out group and also about the bin bag protest earlier this year. All bullish@t I know but if you’re going to do blogs then I can do better. I can make up a whole load of stuff.

  • Adam

    Usmanov is a company man at heart.
    One thing I find ironic about Usmanov is that he is chairman of a global fencing organisation (the FIE) comical and true.
    On a serious note one of his companies sponsors Dinamo Moscow and he sits on their board Dinamo Moscow are state owned.
    The history of the man is both interesting and alarming.

  • alex

    Has anyone have an idea the number of the BSM ?

    Is their numbers substantial that will make think twice the majority holder Stan and the rest ?

    Surely they have some point though we may or not agree to all.

  • bjtgooner

    At this time with the team struggling for form a protest by a self appointed pressure group, with dubious motives, is the last thing the team needs.

    I have come across a lot of pressure groups, and while there can be some decent people caught up in any such group, the one thing pressure groups invariably have in common is that the declared motive of the organizers is not usually the only or real motive.

  • Cameron Wolfe

    @RP
    What has become obvious by your continual focusing on one comment out of the whole article. Is that I have hit a nerve?
    So you’re more than happy to encourage Arsenal supporters to follow you in a a march around the Ems. Maybe the march will last the whole length of the game. It’s only Swansea afterall. Just to show your discontent for the board/chairman.
    Yet you call for him to be removed. Why? You don’t like him? He’s allowed an opinion on the footballing world just like any one else. Obviously it’s not the same as yours so eh should be sacked.
    I did read several articles on your site. As you say everyones entitled to their own opinion unfortunately we don’t see eye to eye on how Arsenal should be run. Certainly for me Usamov would be as bad as the Glaziers are at Manure. I wish he’d sell his shares, take the money and run.
    As far as I’m concerend your protests will be just that. A bunch of unhappy supporters walking around the Ems. Chanting give us back our Arsenal. I’m sure there’ll be a media flurry.

  • arsenalfc49

    Nice to see that Cameron Wolfe is such a True Supporter he will be in his own words “Glued to the Screen” to watch the Swansea Game!
    I was on the first BSM March and will be on this one too because i feel as a Season Ticket Holder something has to be done!
    People like Cameron make me fucking sick posting up there opinions when they don’t even come anywhere near the Games or even pay the extortionate prices our Club Charges!

    Cameron i suggest you shut up and keep watching your beloved Arsenal sitting on your sofa with your Sky Sports subscription or maybe your too tight for that so are using illegal internet streaming, when people like me are paying thousands of pounds to watch the shit that this Current Board has turned Arsenal into!

    Forwards Indeed!!!

  • bjtgooner

    @Cameron

    Well said.

  • R.P

    I’ll leave you alone Cameron. You wont answer the question so thats that.

    I didnt refer to the rest of the blog as it is your opinion. It is wrong as R & W have no connection with the BSM whatsoever. Up to now there have been no communication between the parties. But you won’t believe that will you?

    Debate is healthy but there has to be a modicum of flexibility in how you view a subject. At best some sense of empathy so that a healthy discourse can take place between a group of people.

    And no the march wont last the length of the game. You may think ‘its only Swansea’ but I and many many others will be in the ground because its The Arsenal. The opposition on the day does not stop us from cheering on the team.

  • Lee

    Cameron you come across as a little young whereas most members of BSM are older and wiser Arsenal fans. You say “come the 1st of December I’ll be glued to the screen watching my beloved Arsenal” why will you not be at the game?

  • reality check

    the writer got cought haha.. truth was UNTOLD, untill the writer got cought. so the UNTOLD truth is you lot make stuff up?? i am not a BSM supporter but that was shamefull.

  • Paul

    @reality check
    Wow really. What are you. Like 12?
    P.S You need to either learn to spell or at least use spell check. “untill, cought, shamefull.

  • Paul

    @RP
    Not a case of not answering. Already answered. As I stated in a previous comment. All the information in the article came from your BSM website. Including the comment about a boycott.
    Guess you “edit” too?
    In fact as my Evening wore on I read most of your articles. Interesting stuff from your writers. We’re poles apart in what we want for Arsenal.
    You sound like a disgruntled season ticket holder who doesn’t think he’s getting value for money anymore. Nobody at the club listens to what you want. Would you still be protesting if we were top of the league and beating everybody in style? Did you protest the last time we won the double? Or in the year of the invincibles?
    Great idea. Why don’t you buy out Kroenke? Take his place. Get his seat on the board then you’d have a say at the club.
    Or leave the questioning of the club as to what’s best for the supporters to the official Arsenal supporters club. After all at least their recognised by the club.
    If you’ve nothing to do with R&W then you are at least a Usamov supporter since you’re so keen to get him on the board?
    I’m sure you’d love him to dip in to his deep pockets and buy a few players too?
    I’m afraid that would come back to haunt AFC.
    Good luck with your movement. I’ll carry on with supporting Arsenal in my own way. Regardless who plays, manages, or even owns the club. I’ll back Arsenal 100% everytime. That’s what I do. Maybe you’re more of a protester now than anything else?
    Again let’s see what if anything your protests bring.

  • reality check

    paul
    i may or may not be 12 but i won’t lie about it. unlike some people..

  • ARSENAL 13

    hahhahhaa…..people who want their ARSENAL back think, Usmanov is the man who can help them get it.

    ….your disillusioned/blined vision has drifted across. May be, you need your mind back. Thats when you will find out ARSENAL was ever present, infront of you……and needed you, when you decided to take a walk.

  • Paul, your response suggests you’re both a liar and ignorant. The BSM have never spoken of a boycott. If the word was mentioned on their site it was probably a comment from a fan – NOT the movement. The original article and views like yours smack of ignorant people with personal agendas.

    If you knew facts you’d not write about the BSM not protesting if we were top of the league. You’d also not talk of Usmanov getting a seat on the Board, as BSM have never asked for this. You’d also not mention the Arsenal Supporters Club – that’s a social club! The BSM are recognised by Arsenal (although that ruins your little agenda) and have connections with groups such as AST, AISA and redAction.

    This ill thought out article and some of the ignorant responses based on lies and fantasy do nothing other than completely show up the author and some of our fans as juvenile individuals with an agenda. The article has been widely slated by people who have knowledge of Arsenal’s boardroom and constitution. Yet people like you and Mr Wolfe yap away like an annoying little mongrel.

    Mr Wolfe has totally embarrassed himself with his lies and ignorance, and people like you Paul, need to find out facts before showing yourself up. If Mr Attwood endorses rubbish like this on his site, I suggest he shuts the place down.

  • D5

    “Why don’t you buy out Kroenke? Take his place. Get his seat on the board then you’d have a say at the club.” Honestly, that is stupid.

    Also, about protesting if we won the league etc. That is the point tough. We haven’t won anything for quite a while. One of the main points is we pay champagne prices for lemonade at the moment. If we were challenging and winning trophies I guess more people would accept paying for one of the most expensive seasons tickets in the world.

    I fail to see how anyone can justify that we pay the highest prices in the world, we win nothing, and in the end we could see Kroenke taking out dividends.

  • WalterBroeckx

    The slogan ‘I want my Arsenal back’ is in fact an outrageous cover up sentence.

    What they really mean is “I want my TROPHIES back”.

    I started supporting Arsenal when they lost the first game I ever saw at Highbury. I never thought at that moment: oh when I support this club I will see us win trophies.

    Do you love Arsenal for the trophies or do you love Arsenal because it just is Arsenal? That is the question each of us has to answer.

    Come to think of it…if I would have been a “support the winner of the day supporter” I now would have been a Wolverhampton supporter 😉

    February 1979…Arsenal – Wolves 0-1… look it up. A day I will always remember…

  • WalterBroeckx

    D5,

    the only person I have ever heard asking to pay dividends to the shareholders was Usmanov.

    So wanting R&W on board of the board will be the shortest way to dividends being paid.

    Yes maybe the current board is not perfect but at least they have never taken dividends out of the club or even as far as we know proposed to do it.

  • I see more comments published but mine awaiting moderation. Just goes to show that this place is an utter sham.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Spoken to soon TruthMonger?
    You can always apologise of course.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Speaking of truth Monger: “The BSM have never spoken of a boycott. If the word was mentioned on their site it was probably a comment from a fan – NOT the movement.”

    Who is “the movement”?

  • Stuart

    RP
    Maybe Cameron can retract his statement (unless he provides proof) once BSM have withdrawn the misleading info on their website. An example being on the initiatives you would like the club to introduce:-

    * “Cheaper tickets at Emirates Stadium. If you can afford to sit on £70m of cash in the bank, you don’t need to charge fans the highest ticket prices in football. ”

    Last time I checked, Tottenham had higher costs than us.

  • Walter. Strange how the comment was kept off until I questioned it; not the first time selective moderation had happened on this ever growing sham of a site. I’ll take back my (not so) hasty rematk when the author of this article makes a statement apologising for lying in the content. I shan’t hold my breath.

    Blinkered ignorance – such a shame we have fans who go along with this rather than find out the truth. Like your trophies comment Walter, and your dig at Usmanov & dividends while glossing over Kroenke’s refusal to even answer the question. Nothing but sheer ignorance.

    I suggest to Mr Attwood that while moderation of comments is fine in theory, selective moderation on the back of untruthful articles is going to bring this site nothing but criticism. And rightly so.

  • ARSENAL 13

    @stuart….why should Mr Wolfe retract.

    If a call for the protest walk (by a reader) has passed the moderation of a website/blog………. it simply represents the stand taken by the said organistion/website/blog….

  • Stuart. I suggest you find out the facts. Read figures produced by the AST, read the BBC’s report on prices in football. It’s a fact, Arsenal have the highest ticket prices in football.

    Yet again an ignorant view passed off as the truth. The theme runs right through the article and comments by the author’s friends and supporters.

    An article widely slammed by knowledgeable Arsenal supporters and shareholders.

  • Stuart

    @ TruthMonger
    If BSM have never asked for Usmanov to have a seat on the board then what does the following mean?

    “We want Red & White Holdings to be offered a seat on the Board”

  • Stuart

    TruthMonger
    If you are gullible enough to believe the lazy journalism on the BBC then I pity you!

    It’s a fact that Arsenals season ticket includes cup games so the cost per game is lower than Tottenham.

    I suggest you are the ignorant one.

  • Stuart

    @Arsenal13,

    I was being sarcastic

  • Stuart

    TruthMonger
    Ticket prices was an issue covered on Untold many moons ago, here is some info from one of Untolds readers on the article regarding our ticket prices actually working out less that Tottenham :

    http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/25542/comment-page-1#comment-267091

  • Stuart, Stuart, Stuart. Let me educate you.

    Red & White Holdings is Usmanov’s company, which owns almost 30% of shares in Arsenal. Mr Usmanov has said he does not personally want a seat on the Board, however.

    BSM believes that Red & White Holdings deserves a place on the Board given their shareholding. A view shared and made public by the AST also.

    This does not mean BSM or AST are calling for Mr Usmanov to be offered a place on the Board. Suggest you do a bit more research on the differences between a company and its Directors and one person. Also a bit more research please, on ticket prices / research published by expert financial analysts from many groups/businesses. I’d trust those sources than someone who looks up the price of one match ticket.

  • Stuart

    TruthMonger

    I admit I don’t know the full ins and outs of BSM but no need to patronise me unless you wish for me to take nothing you say seriously.

  • Stuart

    Truth Monger,
    Further still, there is a whole article with numerous comparisons available for your reference. Fact is, Arsenal are not the most expensive although I do admit they are not cheap.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Truth Monger,

    Still don’t know who “the movement” is….

    Still don’t know why you want a company that advocated to give dividends to the shareholders (R&W) on the board of Arsenal…

  • steve

    The objectives of this walk are to heighten the Board’s awareness in the following areas:
     
    BSM-We want Stan Kroenke’s commitment not to take money from the club.

    ME-Has SK said he wants to take money out of the club and also not being the soul owner of the club can he do this without other board members support?

    BSM-We want Peter Hill-Wood off the Board. He has become an embarrassment to the club and its supporters.

    ME-Has he?

    BSM-We want Red & White Holdings to be offered a seat on the Board. Ivan Gazidis called for us to all come together and work in the same direction but how does this work when a 30% shareholder in the club doesn’t get to have a say? In what other large business would this blocking of a major shareholder happen?

    ME-If they invite a questionable share holder on to the board and it all goes pear shaped there is nothing they can do to remove the said share holder. Not knowing the in’s and out’s of every company in the world I and I am sure everybody else does not know if this is usual practice. Why are some so desperate for R&W holdings to get on the board what do they think will change when they do?

    BSM-We want action from the club to stop poor allocation of our money. From wasting money on players we have to write off a year later, to handing out huge contracts to players who we can’t then sell on because nobody will match what we pay. It’s mismanagement and it’s the fans who get hit in the pocket because the club fails in other revenue generating areas such as commercial deals.

    ME-nobody will pay what we pay but there are many who pay more than we pay it is a fine line between right and wrong. You pay the wages that will get the player or keep the player the power is with the players and their agents.

    BSM-Finally, we want the club to deliver the initiatives we’ve previously put to them, which would greatly benefit match going fans. These include:

    A ‘lite’ version of a season ticket with no cup credits
    A short-term staged repayment scheme for season ticket renewals
    The ability for season ticket holders to downgrade to Silver membership

    ME-All good ideas ones I am sure that AST and other supporters groups have already put to Arsenal so the extra support I am sure is welcome.

    BSM-Move away fans to the upper tier, thereby providing cheaper seats for Arsenal fans

    ME-with smaller grounds and so smaller allocations of away fans I am sure this is possible but I would imagine the police would be against this idea.

    BSM-Introduce season tickets in the Clock End at Emirates; recreate the atmosphere of the famous old stand at Highbury and improve the Emirates atmosphere on matchdays.

    ME-So reducing the number of tickets to red members?

    BSM-Introduce safe standing. This continues to be investigated by more and more clubs across the country but continues to be ignored by Arsenal.

    ME-A government review will be needed for this to happen. No minister with pressure from supporters groups like Hillsborough will agree to this the will not want to be if anything happens at a ground to be the one who “brought back” safe standing!!!

    BSM-Cheaper tickets at Emirates Stadium. If you can afford to sit on £70m of cash in the bank, you don’t need to charge fans the highest ticket prices in football.

    ME-Supply and demand, if you were running a football club and you were selling out every match would you lower prices would your shareholders be happy you were lowering prices when not needed. You have to look at football as a business now look at the prices Chelsea charge for games and they are run as a play thing for RA not to a solid business plan. I went to Watford the other week £26 for a seat behind the goal for a mid table team playing a bottom of the table team, I paid £3.70 for a crap pint £1.80 for a cup of hot water with chocolate flavoring masking as hot chocolate, the seats were small and cramped together. The football was average at best.

    A lot these problems are not just Arsenal related I bet if you talked to the so called core support at most teams there would be similar issues. A combined effort is needed through out football not ‘It’s all down to the board’

    Just another point can somebody tell me which Arsenal they want back?

  • Sav from Australia

    @Cameron

    Really good post Cameron. To the point and timely, I reckon. I can see 80 odd posts already, probably many people attacking your views. I say you are a courageous man to speak regarding this issue and I for one find your reasoning impeccable. Good job and keep it up!

    Cheers,
    Sav

  • Brickfields Gunners

    I had a dream that the 1st of December would be a dark ,gloomy
    (rain was forecasted !)day in North London .We were in the middle ages ,and sewer rats were all over the place and making their way to the stadium to shouts of ,”Bring out you dread !
    Bring out your dread !”
    As they get closer to the ground they morph into black clad,
    revolting (aren’t they always ?) supporters of the BSM ,goose stepping in their Doc Martins !People are in fear of these Orcs
    until suddenly in the east in a brilliant light ,they see their hero ,the White haired Knight along with his band of trusty and true Arsenal fans ride in to save the day .
    I woke up abruptly in a cold sweat and vowed never to go on a wine binge and watch too much tv again.
    Oh ,yes ,and to take my medication as prescribed !

  • Mo

    Well this comment is for the writer of this blog really and others that take the same view as him.

    I feel that you are well and truly brainwashed by Garzidis and co. I am not a memeber of any supporter group but I am in favour of some action being taken to try get rid of the current board or at least a few members the first of which would be our much loved CEO who is on a huge salary.

    I am not so sure about getting rid of Wenger but one think is for sure Wenger is showing signs he has lost his touch and if you can’t see that then i’m afraid you need to go specsavers. I love Wenger and think when he came to Arsenal and for the first 10 years while he was here he was in my opinion one of the best managers ever but to say he is still the same is being far to kind its like Muhammad Ali love the guy one of the best fighters ever in my opinion but should he have fought after the Thiller in Manila, NO if he hadn’t he wouldn’t be the way he is now and we would still get to see the great man he was instead of the heartbreaking sight we see now and the same can be said with Wenger and I feel he has been let down massively by the board and has been let down by his own stubborness when is he going to see what we all can see that for years we have been useless at the back and we haven’t had a commanding midfielder and a proper leader and even the one thing you could say Wenger was good at buying players seems to have left him over the last few years he has brought players that either aren’t good enough or don’t fit in to our system i.e. Santos, Denilson, Bendetener, Chamack, Arshavin, Djouro, Park, etc and the players that aren’t good enough I can even understand that not every player will be what you expect but the ones that don’t fit in I don’t understand surely when you scout them you see where they best fit in yet when they come here we don’t play to their strenghts or just play them out of position which is what we are facing right no with Giroud, Arshavin, Chamack, Ramsey, Areta, Gervinho, etc and why does he do this when it doesn’t work why does he play the same players regardless of how bad they are week in week out why does he play the same formation regardless of who we are playing and how ineffective it has proved over the last 7 years and it doesn’t take huge amounts of money to correct these problems things the Wenger of 5- 7 years ago would have changed after 3-4 games of watching it not work or even after 60 mins of watching it not work I mean our goalkeeper we could have sorted that out years ago there was Given, etc then defence he could have brought so many defenders for cheap, Cahill, Samba, Shawcross, Baines, etc then strong phyical midfielders, Fellani, Demeble, Wanyama, etc, and what does the board and manager tell the fans that we don’t have money to compete for sigings well I beg to differ yeah I agree we don’t have money to compete for the very top level players but then if you have a manager who can spot talent like Wenger has proved he can and can get them set into a system that works in the league they play in then you can compete in all competions just like Dortmoud are doing and proving that it can work without spending huge amounts of cash and another thing is that its not really a bad idea spending huge amounts of cash when your selling your best players I mean whats happened to all the money that we got for Song, Nasri, Fabregas, RVP, Adebayor, Toure, etc where has all that gone should the money of players being sold not go stright back into investment towards the team and money from other incomes pay stadium debt like the commercial deals we have, tickets, the building projects they have going on etc, or has this money gone somewhere else. Like I have already said I feel that Wenger has been let down by the board but he has let himself down too, there are so many things he could have done better alot better and he knows it but its defo time for some sort of revolution for something to happen to start a change because lets face it the way things are now we can only see ourselves heading in one direction and thats down and I know there are fans that are going to say I remember when we were fighting relegation, and hadn’t won the league for years and no trophies for years but I remember when we had the best team in the land if not the world, when we were winning trophies for fun, when we were either finishing 1st or 2nd in the league, winning doubles, getting to cup finals and wasnt the move to the emirates sold to us as a way of making sure that this continues not that it stops and that we go into decline things need to change and it needs to start with the supporter groups sitting round a table and discussing the options and not one small group doing it our voice will be heard if we are in the 1000s and not just a few people march around nothing will come of that but something needs to be done and those that say it dont are just simply in denial and I would be happy for anyone to contact me if they feel I am taking crap or even agree and have a better idea.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Could I also humbly request the esteemed members of the BSM to leave or burn your scarves outside the stadium for your own safety .
    If you also are season ticket holders (hardly likely !) and insist in keeping them on ,do show your displeasure by placing the scarves over your eyes ,mouths ,ears and your crotches.Your
    know ,see no evil ,speako no crapo ,hear not the boos from true fans and do keep your shriveled balls warm ( I hear the brass monkeys are staying away !).
    And do not forget to bring black rubbish bags as you may be ‘gifted ‘or god forbid ,pelted with rotten fruit !Take them back to the sewers to your friends !
    Ps , try to buy /invest in companies that produce black scarves, as you may earn millions ,buy the club and drive us away .Damn , I’ shouldn’t have given that hot tip !
    As for me ,I ‘ll be supporting the Arsenal with all my heart
    as we go ‘Spud bashing ‘!
    Up the Gunners !

  • Stuart

    I’m sorry, but it just makes me think of the people front of Judea!

  • miz

    can we all agree that there is something wrong at the club on the managerial and board level?

  • miz

    if so, who are you pointing the finger at? silent stan? lifetime serving peter? gazidis? usmanov consipiracy? AW?
    can we say that although we are doing well as a club financially, we could be doing better by managing our allocation of money on unwanted players which could then translate in to having funds available for better players and in return can boast our performances?

  • Stuart

    Miz,
    I think there is something wrong at board level and I think you will find many readers of Untold who also feel the same. Trouble is, what the board says, is what goes.

  • Stroller

    While we may agree or disagree on many of the issues raised by the BSM people there is a major flaw in their demand for Usmanov or R&W being on the Board. One key role of a Board is to keep the organisation on track in keeping to its long term direction. To do that the Board has to be agreed on that direction.

    When it comes to Usmanov and R&W they have clearly stated they don’t agree with the club’s direction. Putting them on the Board won’t change the differing positions. It would simply create permanent division and acrimony at the top of the club. Everything would have to be agreed on the basis of majority vote, and at present the current Board majority would prevail anyway.

    Do they have have to be on the Board to ‘have a voice’. Of course not. Any shareholder is entitled to ask questions, at AGM’s and privately. I very much doubt that any Board would turn down the request for a meeting with a major shareholder, and I don’t know whether this has ever been requested or even if it has happened.

  • miz

    if it is the board, do they not have a mandate where by someone can be held accountable?

  • the mickster

    Hello all, just a ‘few’ points.
    It’s hard to seperate the upstairs / downstairs performance, ie if Wenger had more money would we be more succesful, or if say David Moyes was in charge, would we finish higher (2nd) and win the FA, League and or European Cup.
    The only way Stan can take money out of the club at the moment is to pay a dividend, this would however involve a payment to all shareholders, incl Usmanov, is this likely ?
    If DD loved the club so much, why did he instantly sell his shares to Usmanov ? (at huge personal profit, which was earnt buy your hard earned money) if he still owned the shares i’m sure that a lot more people would feel easier aboout the BSM propasals.
    Saying that, i think we miss a ‘suporter’ on the board, like DD or Danny Fizz, who perhaps could be a little less clinical about the decisions.
    BSM’ers, do you really believe that Usmanov will just pour shedloads of cash into the club for no return ?
    I don’t love Arsenal for the cups, i love Arsenal cos i do ! and if these are the bad times, watching Peter Nicholas and Brain Talbot in the middle of the park during the 80’s must be a nightmare ! ( i actually quite liked Brain Talbot, even if the ‘call it a la Platini if you like’ commentary was hilarious !)

  • Stroller

    @Mickster
    “BSM’ers, do you really believe that Usmanov will just pour shedloads of cash into the club for no return?”

    No, in fact he has said as much. He has said that he wants the club to raise money by issuing more shares. Problem is that this is a risky proposition, especially in the current climate. It’s usually done in good market conditions when companies are on the up and want to expand their operations. But if it goes wrong shareholders can be lose value on their holdings for less cash gain than expected.

    Usmanov is a businessman just like Kroenke. He’s not an Abramovich or Sheik Mansour.

  • bob

    “Trouble is, what the board says, is what goes.”
    Hence, Stuart, there is a need for what Mo calls for:
    not the BSM, but thousands of voices in unison demanding the kind of corrections and changes that Mo has pointed to. The January window will be an acid test for whether there is the will and/or ability to correct what ails us midstream.

  • I wonder if Brickfields Gunners would care to meet any member of te BSM and abuse them like that to their face? All well and good coming out with juvenile insults based on your own juvenile and ill-informed thoughts, but I’d pay good money to see you say that face to face.

    You abuse someone from behind the safety of a computer screen but guaranteed your never have the guts to confront these people.

    Yet again it goes to show what a complete farce this article is, when it’s backed up by idiots who snigger away while making childish insults with no grasp of fact / reality. Tony Attwood needs to step in and sort this shit heap of a site out before things start to snowball.

  • I wonder if Brickfields Gunners would care to meet any member of te BSM and abuse them like that to their face? All well and good coming out with juvenile insults based on your own juvenile and ill-informed thoughts, but I’d pay good money to see you say that face to face.

    You abuse someone from behind the safety of a computer screen but guaranteed your never have the guts to confront these people.

    Yet again it goes to show what a complete farce this article is, when it’s backed up by idiots who snigger away while making childish insults with no grasp of fact / reality. Tony Attwood needs to step in and sort this shit heap of a site out before things start to snowball well and truly out of control.

  • miz

    does the author agree with the views of mo and bob?

  • Woody

    @Truthmonger
    You don’t think you’re taking Brickfields Gunner a little too seriously? Sounds a little threatening asking that he meets a member of the BSM “Face to Face”
    Every body is entitled to their opinion. On the BSM website I’m sure there are thousands of comments on the articles that you print? I’m sure not everybody agrees with all of your views?
    If they disagree with your views do you want to meet them too?
    Last time I checked we live in a democracy?
    Like your opinion that UA is a “shit heap of a site” and Tony needs to get it “sorted out”
    See that’s your opinion and Tony has happily printed it.
    This is my favourite Arsenal site and it’s different form the rest.
    I’m going to assume that RP, Lew1234, D5 and yourself are all of the same thought and are all for the BSM want.
    Your allowed to be. Your way of making your feelings known that your not happy with the current board.
    If you shopped at Tesco’s but then didn’t like how Tesco’s was run. Would you still shop there? Or would you get a group of people together and march out side the store until they gave you what you want?
    Probably you’d shop somewhere else.
    You obviously feel so strongly about what’s ahppening at Arsenal that not supporting them is not an option. I know “you want your Arseanl back”
    I didn’t know it had gone.

    You may not agree with me but Arsenal is run by the shareholders and the board. Are they going to take notice of a group of unhappy supporters and give in to their demands?
    Who knows. Only time will tell.

    I’ve read all the comments and your always going to have people who agree with you and people who don’t.
    Debate is good. At least there are public forums like UA where you can at least air your views and read the different views of other fans.

    Have you thought about what to do next if your protests come to nothing? Is there another plan in place as to what happens then?

    Do you up the ante and take more extreme measures?

  • Shard

    bob,

    Mo is calling for revolution. And the BSM are ‘protesting’ against what exactly? PHW continuing as Chairman? Why? Because it’s ok to abuse the board but fans get all prissy when one of them actually voices their opinion? I like having PHW on board. Not only does he represent a link back to the times of Henry Norris, he’s also fun to have around and says what he wants to without the mask of PR. I have never felt insulted by him, and I’m a fan of Arsenal too.

    What else? Spend some fucking money or reduce ticket prices? I’m sorry but that’s just idiotic. You either choose to pay for the football or you don’t. The board doesn’t force you to give money if you think it isn’t worth it. And as I said before, they actually can charge a lot more if they didn’t care at all (They care because they have to.It’s how they get money. But they do care). And what about the demand for making away fans pay more. Oh let’s protest the board’s ‘greed’ but let’s show some greed ourselves. We don’t want to pay, let those other idiot footie fans pay more.

    Give a board seat to R&W? Why? What exactly will that achieve?

    Want end to wasting money on players? Oh. I bet the board or Wenger never thought of that?

    Let’s get this straight. This protest is idiotic because there actually is very little to PROTEST about. There are a lot of things which can be improved, but a protest achieves absolutely nothing constructive. It just gives the media another excuse to drag our club over the coals. But the BSM won’t care because this isn’t THEIR Arsenal anymore. You know. The Arsenal that exists only on the basis of nostalgia and moments of glory.

    If they really want to protest against what is happening at Arsenal, they should protest against the policies which allow clubs to blatantly tap up players, which allow a nation to fund football clubs and force other clubs to increase their spending too just to keep up, at the risk of going under. They should protest the method of administration of the referees which have had a huge effect on Arsenal’s fortunes. Force the media to cover those issues as well because they are as much a part of Arsenal’s current position as is the board. That would be constructive. This is just akin to a hissy fit.

  • Stroller

    @Shard,

    It’s a protest against the performances and results against Norwich, ManU, Schalke and Fulham.

    If we had won those matches and were sitting near the top would anybody be protesting about the price of tickets (let alone burgers?) Peter Hill-Wood could run naked around the ground downing a bottle of best brandy and nobody would protest about it (…. well, maybe a few).

    It’s what they see on the field that really influences how supporters feel, not who’s on the Board. This is all about emotions driven by results, not considered analysis of the right long-term finances of the club and who is right to deliver them.

  • miz

    Shard,

    I do agree with you to an extent and my thoughts are changing, but i still cant come away from the fact that there is a fundamental problem somewhere in our club and i am still inclined to go with the opinions of mo and bob. i dont know if my mindset is a result of not winning a trophy and maybe my judgement is being clouded but im sure alot of people feel this way too and there is a problem at heart that needs to be addressed one way or another

  • Shard

    miz,
    “there is a fundamental problem somewhere in our club”

    I actually think the fundamental problem is within the state of football as it stands. The problems at the club are merely reflective of that. Combined with the fact that we have undertaken a huge project with the stadium move.

    Of course, there are issues within the club. I also think (and have agreed with bob) that we need to buy some players in Jan and next summer to build on this squad (which I think has the makings of a title winning side in it) I don’t know if the club will buy someone though. I also recognise that I am not in possession of all the facts of why we buy or don’t buy someone, what negotiations are happening etc.

    In any case, I don’t think parading through the streets helps anyone. It’s better to engage them through the proper channels rather than create an ‘Us vs Them’ atmosphere. Arsenal as a club actually engage with fans more than most clubs. Perhaps they do it more than they should, because some fans seem to take it for granted and feel angry about not being directly involved in every single aspect of decision making at the club.

  • MO

    Shard,

    I just think your in denial mate and I don’t want that to sound like an insult I don’t totally agree with what the BSM are saying but I do applaud them for having the courage to come forward a propose such action when no other supporter group has come forward to do the same.

    What your saying about ticket prices is bullshit im afraid and I have to say that bluntly. The board DO NOT put the prices lower than they would like because they care and I want everyone to understand this and be clear on this the board are running our club as a business not a football club and business owners don’t do things because they care they do things to stay competitive and to make sales SIMPLE. Now if the board as you suggest pump the price of tickets up, say they doubled the price of the cheapest ticket then you would find that the majority of people wouldn’t go to matches because they couldn’t afford it the only people that would go would be the rich or the die hards and there aren’t enough of either group to fill a 60K seater stadium therefore they think hang on why double the price of tickets and sell say 25% capacity when we can keep tickets prices a lot lower and sell 100% capacity which will generate a far greater revenue, and that is the truth it isn’t because they care in anyway shape or form if they did care they would match the prices Man City and other clubs offer. I remember in 2011 Man City’s first year in the CL I was looking at ticket prices for Arsenal-Olympiacos and that same time Man City where playing Napoli, Arsenal-Olympiacos was around £50 and Man City-Napoli was around £20 at the time Man City where FA Cup Champions and finished in 3rd we finished 4th and won nothing rest my case.

    With regards to there isn’t much to protest about well im afraid there is and if you can’t see that I suggest you do something which is called waking up and open your eyes because you tell me which top team around the world sells its best players year after year, which top team lets its best players run their contract down to its final year again and again, which top team hasn’t won anything for 7 years and to be honest hasn’t really come close to winning a major trophy since say 2008, answer I can tell you is NONE but Arsenal who I will say and as much as its hard to say are not a top team anymore.

    We all blamed RVP and said all he wanted was money but after we played Man U I saw why he went and the others how can we stupidly believe that all these players left purely for money they left because they have won fu*k all or in PHW’s word “sweet FA” and they are being paid peanuts compared to if they went to a TOP team then they stand an almost certain chance of winning something and they also will be paid far more and you can call that greed but I call that any other human on the planet. We as fans feel that these players from Holland, France, Spain, etc who probably don’t even hear of Arsenal until they are like 10 years old should love the club why? yes us fans do but they are just employees and thats it and if you can’t get your head round that then im afraid Garzidis and co have done a great job in brainwashing you. Its like being a highly skilled engineer and working for say TATA motors being paid a decent salary lets say 30k a year but having no other highly skilled guys working with you and therefore having to shoulder the majority of responsibility and having more or less no chance of moving further in the company. Then suddenly BMW come along and say come work for us we will double any offer TATA make and at the same time we have 5 other skilled engineers to help you out and we have a policy where by we set you targets and if you achieve those we will guarantee you promotion, who would you choose? I know who I would choose, so why do we blame RVP and the others that left, for gods sake why do you think Henry left?

    Lets look at the truth of the matter we don’t win anything, we offer shit wages so why on earth would any top player who isn’t a true Arsenal fan want to come to Arsenal we have a manager and board who openly say that 4th place is a trophy, and say other clubs are mad for spending money yet they are happy to take “petrol dollars” for their best players year after year and happy then to go ahead and award themselves huge salary increase because the balance sheet looks good, well no shit the balance sheet looks good because you’ve just sold RVP and song and made the best part of 40M, and while they award themselves huge increases in salary they say RVP and Walcott are living in a different planet to demand such salaries, why?

    Thats what the protest is about mate and they are the problems, The club don’t care about us if they did they would have listened to us. Do I blame Wenger? Not so much but he needs to get a grip and begin to look at his own tactics and make change now before its to late but like I have said I believe Wenger has been let down, he will come out and say at all cost we must keep RVP, Nasri, etc and then the board gladly cash in and then make fu*k ups when buying replacements, a certain Hazard and Mata comes to mind need I say more and then Wenger is left picking the pieces.

    I would gladly sit down and talk round a table with anyone on here who agrees or disagrees with me but to just dismiss something without proper thought is stupid especially when the other persons frustration is the same as yours and comes from the love they have for Arsenal and all they want is for their Arsenal to be back at the top or at least winning something.

    Do you all agree?

  • miz

    @ shard & Mo,
    got to say that Mo is putting up an arguement hard to refute.

  • Shard

    Mo,

    1) Regarding your first paragraph. You need to read more carefully. Or perhaps I need to write more carefully. They DO run the club as a business, as they bloody well should. The reason they can’t raise the prices too much more also is exactly as you say. But the demand for Arsenal tickets is enough for them to increase their revenue from it further if they think that is what is required. But they won’t because they ‘care’ in the sense that though they can, they also cannot alienate the fan base entirely because future growth is based on that. It is their job to find the balance between demand and supply, and keeping a future involvement going (in fact that is what those red level tickets are about) It has absolutely nothing to do with having won last season. Arsenal have a huge following because they built that fanbase over the years. Unlike ManCity. So there is no straightforward comparison there. Also London prices are more than Manchester prices. In almost everything. I’ve been to both cities. The food and drink, and hotels are cheaper in Manchester. The cost of operation in London is higher for businesses as well. Arsenal are no different. So again. no direct comparison.

    2) ” which top team around the world sells its best players year after year, which top team lets its best players run their contract down to its final year again and again, which top team hasn’t won anything for 7 years”

    Which top team has moved stadium from their own money and still managed to stay competitive? Which other teams have stayed in the CL all the time we have?

    You can’t ignore the economic reality and just blame the board for it. Maybe they can do more, but they aren’t the ones primarily responsible for it. If anything, the whole effort of the stadium move has been to increase revenue (something which would have happened sooner if we were run more like a business before)

    This is what brings us to the rise of Chelsea and ManCity. We’d planned the stadium before Abramovich came in. The spiralling costs came just at the time our spending had to be restricted. All things considered, we’ve done quite while managing that difficult transition.

    And I do not understand this argument about ‘only too happy to take petro dollars’. What do you propose they do? Shut their eyes, put their finger in their ears and pretend the petro clubs don’t exist? It’s the era of player power. Clubs cannot really do much to hold onto them. Especially clubs which are trying to remain financially responsible.

  • Let’s not forget, this whole thing started with a blatant lie and a silly question/accusation in a poorly written article.

    Nowhere did the BSM say they were planning a boycott. That’s 100% fact. And supporting the rights of a 30% shareholder – as other supporters groups do – doesn’t mean the BSM work for Usmanov. What a narrow-minded, juvenile and idiotic (with a complete lack of business nous) opinion.

    Conspiracies and plain, outright bullshit.

  • Shard

    And let’s be clear, Arsenal won the league in the years 1998-2004, by paying at the top bracket of wages. Outspending the great majority of clubs. Players play for money. Which is why it is important for the club to raise their income. To be run like a BUSINESS. Maybe if we’d explored commercial opportunities while still at Highbury, we’d be more like ManU. ManU actually, are the prime model for self sufficiency. In fact, they are so far ahead that they can afford to have Glazers leeching off of them, and still compete. They also, are proof that that model can work. (Though they do have an institutional bias in their favour which helps them a lot)

    But even they, are pushing for financial fair play rules, both in UEFA and in the Premier League. Why? Because even they can’t compete with the oil clubs. Since Mansour took over Mancity, they have spent (transfer + wages) 220m per year on average Chelsea- 208m, ManU-130m, Arsenal-103m.

    There is nothing the board can do to make up a gap of 117million pounds per year. Absolutely nothing. That is why they back FFP. And that is also why ManU backs FFP. They will fall behind permanently as well if City and Chelsea’s spending isn’t curbed.

  • Woody

    @ Truth monger
    As someone commented earlier. Just like RP. Your obssessed now by the one point in the article you don’t like. Or want to be associated with.
    At the end of the day you are a protest group. You are a bunch of unhappy Arsenal fans. You want to be heard. Protesting is your way of doing that.
    It’s not for everybody. Not everyone is going to argee that protesting is the best way to get change.
    Maybe you’re asking for too much?
    As one comments says:
    All you’re doing is giving the media more ammunition to show Arsenal in a bad light.
    We’re already slated for being too quite, or not ambitious enough.
    Your website slates fans as being “Wannabee tourists”. See even the BSM are slating Arsenal fans.
    I my own opinion you sound like an extremist group who want to protest for protest sake.
    I’ll stick to supporting not protesting.
    I suppose you think Booing the team is acceptable if they’re not playing how you want them too.

  • Booing the team Woody? Another ignorant view. And where do the BSM slate fans for being wannabe tourists?? Or are you passing off the comment of someone posting on their site as the group’s viewpoint.

    Not sure how much more black & white the BSM’s About Us page needs to be. Yet people like you feel the need to twist the comments of others and portray them as a factual statement made by the BSM.

  • Woody

    @ truth monger
    After reading all the comments I decided to check out your website.
    From an article on your site:

    “Far too many tourists and wannabes. Our traditional fan base is leaving in droves when it comes to home games.
    I believe I speak for the vast majority of true Arsenal fans when I say “We want OUR Arsenal back”.

    As Walter mentioned. Which Arsenal do you want back?
    Iis it the Herbert Chapman one?
    Is it the George Graham one?
    Is it the Arsene Wenger one?
    Because that’s the one we currently have but obviously the current Arsenal team/ board is what you’re unhappy with.
    Again that’s really what you are. Just a bunch of unhappy fans.
    So you’re quite happy to publish articles on your website where the writer slates the fans as “Wannabee tourists”
    Yet your last comments asks “where do the BSM slate the fans”
    By printing an article which contains those words. Your obviously happy with that point of view.
    You’re like the fans who only think their fans because they turn up at every Home game. Who believe only ture fans do that anyone else isn’t a real fan.
    Where in fact. The season ticket holders or the fans who can source a matchday ticket are indeed lucky that they get to see Arsenal play.
    I’ve watched them at Highbury, the Ems and on several away grounds in the FA cup.
    I went to every single match I could when I was able too. I enjoyed the whole experience.
    Was I happy when we lost?
    Of course not but being their watching Arsenal play was still worth every penny.
    You’re so engulfed in the politics of the board and who owns what in the clubs.
    Me I’m more simplistic and still just want to watch Arsenal play.
    I’ll always support them 100% regardless.
    For me. Supporting Arsenal is unconditional.
    You guys protest all you like. Good luck.
    We’ll just have to agree to disagree on whether it’s the best thing for Arsenal.

  • Shard

    I think the point isn’t JUST about what the official about us page says on the BSM site. (Although that is a valid point) The point also is what kinds of people the movement attracts and hopes to thrive on. I am pretty sure the ones who want Wenger out, who feel real fans are those who are born in North London etc are the ones primarily backing the movement. And this is because the focus of the movement is on the words PROTEST against the board. Although now someone will argue that the BSM statement doesn’t actually use the word ‘protest’. Does anyone doubt (or deny) that is what they are doing though?

  • Woody

    @Shard
    Of course it’s a protest group.
    If you’re organising a protest masrh to the ground. then you’re a protesting.
    The articles on the BSM website does use phrases like “the vast majority of Arsenal fans”
    In truth the vast majority of Arsenal fans don’t even live in the UK let never mind the Holloway road.

  • Shard

    Woody,

    True enough. But they haven’t used the word ‘protest’. Just like they haven’t actually demanded Wenger be sacked, or said that the club is going towards ruination. Yet, all of that is implied. They have ‘plausible deniability’ because they don’t SAY it. But a lot of their backers will say it (only to be called just one individual’s view) People with those views are the backbone of such a movement, regardless of obfuscation and allegations of being misrepresented.

  • Woody

    @Shard
    Just as the statement on their website.
    They don’t say they want Usamov on the board but if you’d invested hundreds of millions in a club. You’ll either want to be on the board. Or you’ll want someone else putting your point across.
    Who’d he want Dein?
    I think we’ve been there before and he’s history.
    They do state however that they think that anyone who’s invested or owns 30% should be on the board.
    They have to be invited. Even Kroenke had to be invited.
    Strange how they want him or another on the board.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    @ Truth Monger @ 4.11 16 Nov – As you seem new to this site and probably never read any of my posts , just let me tell you that I’m a 55 year old Malaysian Medical Doctor in private practice for the last 21 years and have earned millions( not really sure where it all went !)during my lifetime .
    I’m no juvenile computer ,trawling the depths to pick fights or engage others to get my ‘rocks off’.My sense of humour or satirical way of posting my not be your cup of tea ,but so far I’ve yet to earn an OIK (not from the want of trying !) from Tony !
    I usually go online at work and hardly ever at home and nor do I own any fancy gadgets/cell phone to ‘be with it’ .I have a full and varied life and thanks for asking!
    As for meeting the BSM , why not ? Not that I ‘ll be learning anything new from you .
    This is a pro Wenger Arsenal website and if your unhappy just leave and join like minded ilk and be happy in your misery .I have had quoted this before (it was on a t-shirt),
    “If you’ve nothing better to do , don’t do it here !”
    You guys can liken me to that old uncle of yours who sits by himself in a corner at family gatherings ,muttering to himself and may also appear to be ‘playing’with himself !
    For me posting here is pure fun and if I entertain you or shock you or make you choke on you tea (I think it was Stuart!), then it’ll be a job well done .I never presume to be smarter than AW , the board or the Billionaire owner ,or even some astute posters here.
    @ WOODY @ 5.00pm , Thanks for standing up for me ,mate !

  • rupert cook

    Some of you can’t differentiate between support and protest.

    When students demonstrated against the Viet Nam war in the US or people took to the streets to protest against the invasion of Iraq it didn’t immediately mean they weren’t patriots. They thought their country was moving in the wrong direction and they wanted those in power to know that. Apply that thinking to the BSM.

    Many seem ready to damn Usmanov yet are quite happy to accept the presence of Kroenke at our club. A man who seems to have no interest in football whatsoever. Personally I’d be suspicious of them both.

  • Steve

    After reading the BSM’s website I can find no evidence in the early campaigns statements about a call for who should be on the board. Why has this change of attitude and policy come from they were a group who set out to stop fans being taken for granted(their words). Where does demanding who and who should not sit on the board feature in this.

    On a personal level I think that what the BSM want is probably unobtanable in this day and age of football business. Football has moved on at such a fast pace over the past decade with the introduction of the mega owner through out football that the so called core supporter will feel left behind. Can Arsenal reduce ticket prices? Probably but only when the commercial deals are improved but of the 3 main deals only 2 can be done in the near future in 2014. I’m not sure of the dates or by how much but if you look back at the % increase of an Arsenal season ticket back in the early 00’s I’m sure you will see a bigger % rise than what we have gone through since moving.
    Where were the complaints then where were the supporters groups, nowhere and why because we were winning things. These people were happy to pay the ticket prices then but not now.

    The move to the new stadium has spilt fans and with the introduction of the mega owner and also the downturn in Arsenals fortunes it has lead to some fans being unhappy with their lot at Arsenal. I have no problems with the BSM pushing for cheeper tickets, safe standing etc etc but now they have entered the world of boardroom politics I can not and will not back them.

  • Shard

    Steve,

    I would be very very surprised if Arsenal reduced ticket prices after the new commercial deals come into effect. Prices, like footballer’s wages, only go in one direction.. Upwards. It’s unrealistic to expect a drop in prices.

  • Steve

    Shard
    I’m not saying they will reduce ticket prices I’m just pointing out that the only time they could.

  • Shard

    Steve

    Yup. I agree with that.

  • bjtgooner

    @Brickfields Gunners

    I like your 6.56am reply to TruthMonger. My impression from TruthMonger’s earlier posts to you was that he was being unnecessarily aggressive, a sure sign that he felt he was losing the debate and was then trying to bully his way through.

    The problem with protest/pressure groups like BST is that they can declare certain objectives while planning additional objectives in secret. Such groups can also evolve from being apparently benign initially to a subsequent malignant or criminal agenda. History is littered with such groups.

    At present too much is unknown about the BST – not a good sign.

  • bjtgooner

    @Brickfields

    BSM not BST – sorry, not quite awake yet.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    @ bjtgooner – thanks for that.Was away from the computer and just back and got to reading this .
    I truly detest ‘lobbyst ‘, pressure groups and those who get in to you face types .You know the type ,” All men are born equal ,but some (read themslves )are more equal than others!”
    Everybody has an opinion and are entitled to them ,just don’t
    try to stuff it down others’ throats .I believe in that old saying,” Lead , follow of get the fuck out of the way !”
    Cheers !

  • Sorry to join in late – but a very lazily researched article. It’s important to get one’s facts straight before jumping to conclusions. This article is laced with all the popular misconceptions about the BSM. Just because somebody calls for a boycott on the ‘comments’ section, it doesn’t represent the official line. Simply read their official website and the ‘about us’ and ‘campaigns’ section. If you follow Highbury Harold on twitter, as I do, you would never for a single, solitary moment question his support or knowledge of Arsenal’s history. They are doing it because they care. They are merely speaking up for loyal fans, long-term core supporters who have become disengaged, alientated, priced out or disillusioned. Many of their proposals would help improve the atmosphere immeasurably. So please, do the research, get facts straight, and make a rational decision to see if they speak for you. If they don’t, fine.

  • Steve

    Rocky RIP
    I don’t think the problem is with the campaign against ticket prices etc etc but the call for R&W holdings to be given a place on the board and the removal of PHW from the same board. The BSM have no evidence that R&W have any better plans or better skills for running the club(except maybe throwing money around). Should Arsenal fan groups decide who should be on the board?

  • Steve – point taken. Although did the AST not have a vote on whether R&W should be given representation on the board and vote that they should? (Apologies if I’m wrong on this. Just something I picked up from Tim Payton’s twitter conversations.) Nobody tore into them for doing this. Personally I have no idea who is for the best at boardroom level. (Having people who cared about the club and were long-term fans as certain previous board members like Danny Fiszman are reported to have been would be preferable.) All I was saying is that the BSM are constantly fighting off false accusations of what they stand for. They get accused of being the ones behind the big bag protest (false); being an anti-Wenger movement (not what their original agenda was about), etc. It’s not their fault people with their own agendas hijack what they are about.

  • steve

    Rocky RIP
    The bin bag protest was not as far as I understand a part of the BSM but when you read the Mirror report on the protest it is added in with a quote from Kelvin Meadows and reads like the BSM were a part of the protest.

    Taken from the Mirror
    “Arsene Wenger is facing the humiliation of a bizarre BIN-BAG protest as angry Arsenal fans begin to vote with their feet.

    One supporters’ group is urging their fellow Gooners to put black bin liners over empty red seats at the Emirates during Saturday’s match against Blackburn to highlight falling attendances.

    Manager Wenger has seen his side slip to seventh in the table after taking just one point from their last four games, and there have been Twitter and Facebook calls for the bin-bag protest plus chants of “we want our money back” during this weekend’s lunch-time clash.

    Wenger also faced a severe backlash on Twitter, while the Arsenal Supporters’ Trust called on the board and majority shareholder Stan Kroenke to engage more with fans after the club refused to make any big money signings in January.

    Kelvin Meadows, of the Where Has Our Arsenal Gone and Black Scarf Movement, insisted that their group would always support the team and Wenger, but questioned the direction of the club.

    Meadows said: “What was the point in six per cent price rises last summer if the club do not want to spend? We will always support the team and Wenger deserves respect and to be treated with dignity after everything he’s done for the club.

    “If Robin van Persie signs [a new contract], then great. But I don’t know many people who would blame him if he did go in the summer because is the club going to buy players to rebuild the team again?

    “It’s not the players’ fault. It’s not even their fault if some of them are not necessarily good enough. But we would like answers from the board.”

  • Steve – you’ve re-inforced my point. There is a lot of ignorance and misinterpretation surrounding the BSM. They unequivocally deny any involvement with the pathetic bin bag protest. ie. Shock! Horror! The Mirror distorted the truth. Who would think it possible? I actually agree with you that the boardroom politics stuff may lose them a lot of support, but I back them 100% with their proposals in relation to ticketing schemes/prices/atmosphere. The biggest of which is to bring back the spirit and atmosphere of the Clock End, backed up by tangible solutions presented to the club. Who could POSSIBLY disagree? They deserve our backing on this kind of stuff. It’s not based on poor results. We could win the title and the issues people have would remain. People who ask ‘Which Arsenal do they want back?’ clearly don’t grasp it. The Arsenal that had a club crest to be proud of would be a good starting point. Art deco 30s crest v current cartoon codswallop – you decide. Is there anyone who likes the current crest? The away kit colours would be a next logical part of the Arsenal we’d like back. Yellow and blue v purple? – you decide. Elvis v good Old Arsenal – you decide. The list goes on and on and I’m happy to keep going with it.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Think I read somewhere that that stupid bin bag thing was actually dreamt up by a Utd fan based in Pakistan? As for the BSM, completely with some if not all of the aims. Do not agree with the stance on PHW , mainly as he is purely a figurehead, but like all of us, clearly cares deeply about the club. and would like to know more about usmanov and the clubs clear wariness of him before wanting him on the board however can only applaud on issues like safe standing, ticket pricing and allocation. Also the fact that they back the team during games. I have been on other sites where BSM members do speak out against hijacking of their protest by the generally pissed off Gooners who just want wenger stan Ivan out …….end of. There are things at this club that can be done better and if the BSM or anyone else can play a constructive part in that by organised protest, by not having a go at the team when playing , then good luck to them. But still think PHW is a perceived problem rather than an actual issue.

  • I totally agree Mandy. The are misconstrued as moaners and outright dissenters, when really they are trying to protect the interests of fans who love the club as much as they do. Modern football/Arsenal seems to be a proliferation of negative voices, and they are deemed to be the loudest in this category. The reality is they are amongst the most vociferous supporters (in a positive sense) at matches and want action to facilitate other supporters to be equally vocal, such as Safe Standing, cheaper tickets for cup matches available to local kids and season tickets in the clock end. They are only trying to do what they believe is right to improve things for the better and protect our traditional fan base, rather than create mutiny.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Think safe standing is coming, maybe just a bit too hot a topic for the big clubs to get involved with at the moment, but fan pressure groups will be a big help on this issue which is dear to at least many of us older fans. The Germans have the technology……

  • Stuart

    Yes Brickfields, it was I.

    Still trying to overcome my fear of Tea but I’m getting there, down to two counselling sessions per day now 😉

  • I agree Mandy, Safe Standing is on the horizon. The government seem unaware of the level of demand. Until they realise how perfectly sensible the SS system is in Germany and how much many fans would love its introduction, they are unlikely to touch this sensitive issue/hot potato. Anyone thinking it’s some kind of rewinding to the dark days couldn’t be more wrong. We never had SS in the old days. We had dangerous terraces. Health and Safety didn’t exist. Modern stadia could accommodate it comfortably without problems. Those who oppose are the real Luddites. People who choose to sit should be allowed to do just that without having their view blocked. Equally let those who’d rather stand do so. I urge everyone to take the time, if they haven’t already, to go to the football supporters’ federation website and support the campaign. Write to your MP. The more people who back it, the sooner it will get trialed and people will see it makes perfect sense.

  • Stuart

    Rocky RIP & all :

    http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38184

    Safe standing petition! 🙂

  • Well done Stuart. Has there ever been an official fans’ vote on the subject of SS? A co-ordinated effort right across all fans’ groups so that everyone has a right to vote. It seems the biggest obstacle to progress is convincing the authorites that there is overwhelming support for SS. Providing statistics that we at Arsenal are in favour of it – if indeed we are – would re-inforce the case for SS.

  • Woody

    @Rocky RIP
    I think you’re being harsh in your first comment with the
    “lazily researched article”
    After I read the first batch of comments I read through most of the articles onm the BSM site including their statement which the author quoted word for word.
    Like others who are slating the peice RP,D5, Lev1234 the major complaint is the boycott call. Yet when others again complained that the BSM weren’t slating Arsenal fans. Unfortunately they are. it’s clearly in black and white in one of their articles.
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. As many of the comments on this site reflect. Not everyone agrees with the BSM or protesting. Protesting for me is not supporting. Do we really want to look like the sad Blackburn fans?
    I noticed as well that the BSM were asked if they had another plan in place if the protest doesn’t work. Unfortunately no one wanted to answer that one.
    They do call for a member of the R&W holdings to be elected to the board and they’re definately asking for PHW to be replaced.
    Unfortunately for a bunch of disgruntled/unhappy supporters I personally think their asking for too much. Why should supporters dictate who’s on the board? Why should they ask for the Chairman to be sacked?
    Ticket prices, seating arrangemnets etc. Write to the Club and air your grievence. Protesting in Public just makes us look bad.
    We have enough people knocking us without our own fans doing it.

  • steve

    So apparently if you support Chelsea a ST cost £750 lower shed if you add in 7 cup ties it goes to over £1000 which makes it a tad more than a North Bank lower ticket at Arsenal.

    Looking at Chelsea’s finances how much of the gate receipts actually do anything at Chelsea do they cover JT & FL’s yearly wage?

    As somebody pointed out why if RA is willing to pay so much money for players, their wages, managers and their payoffs why are Chelsea fans paying so much and would Arsenal fans be happy paying so much if they had a very rich owner paying so much for players and their wages and still being asked to pay high ticket prices?

  • Stuart

    Quite clearly the BSM is a lame cover for the Wenger out merchants if recent Twitter activity is anything to go by

  • goonerm

    the best bit of your pathetic article cameron wolfe is when you say you will be glued to the screen watching swansea.

    epitomises exactly why you have no idea/connection with the BSM guys.- you will be watching on TV says it all, the BSM guys are genuine arsenal fans been going for years and sick to death of being treated like a mug by the club.

    what they are doing is very commendable, and everyone single one of the BSM guys has spent more money in their life on our beloved club than that disgusting individual peter hill wood.

  • Belfastgooner

    Some of the replies and comments on this are ridiculous. You would think it was between 2 rival clubs to read over some of them. So why this gulf in opinions? I have been going to watch the arsenal for around 15 years, in that time I have spent a small fortune that I don’t have. I have watch the changes taken place at board level and seen the impact of these changes have on the pitch. How can ALL arsenal fans not be concerned by the actions of the board over the last 10years? This doesn’t mean that you are anti-wenger or somehow are less of a supporter because you question the board. It means that you are challenging that which has a direct impact on our team. Wenger has been hung out to dry year after year by this board, wenger publicly states he wants a player to stay and low and behold the board are negotiating with buying clubs behind the scenes to ‘get the best deal for the club’. The composition of the current board is an absolute disgrace. The current board is made up of PHW approved members and anyone who dared to challenge him have been removed or put in a position where they feel in an untenable position. Make no mistake PHW is a problem, our current plight on field is a giant indication of the position that the board are in. PHW has had a relationship with usmanov for a lot longer than people realise and the view that ‘ he is being cautious in who would be appointed to the board in arsenals interest’ are pretty naive.
    I actually feel strongly enough about the situation to say that wenger should not renew his current deal, as the man deserves a lot more from this board that yearly shite he is served. He is expected to work miracles by fans who are so ungrateful and ignorant of the reality. Deserves a lot more in respect of the restrictions placed on him. The day that wenger leaves, and I love the man for what he has done, we will only then hear the truth and the current board will be shown for what they are. Until that day we should challenge them and if you want to protest about it the so be it because in 10/20 years time our children will ask daddy what did the fans do to stop this shit happening. I for one am glad that I will be able to tell them something instead of being embarressed by the direction our club is heading.
    . I will be supporting the BSM because if I spend my hard earned money to follow the arsenal they should have the decency to give our greatest manager some of it to spend and I case the wage structure to attract the players he actually wants and not those who fit onto our current wage structure.Long live the the Arsenal

    Sorry for the length but when I get started and all that……

  • Stuart

    Goonerm
    Before you criticize, maybe you could stop to think about how some Arsenal fans don’t live in London and some not even in the UK. Some are fans who lived here and had to move away for whatever reason.

    I actually agree with most of what the BSM have to say but just not how they go about it and your response is typical of BSM group and the disrespect towards other fans. You really are rude, thoughtless and selfish and its about time you lot grew up.