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The Profile of a Pessimistic Gooner

The Profile of a Pessimistic Gooner (aka Gonner)

Don McMahon

Following on numerous dismal and disillusioned posts by Gooners across cyberspace in the wake of our poor performances  (except at Reading) in the last few weeks, I was struck by the exaggerated and desperate negativism and pessimism on display from self-described fans. This made me wonder, being a retired referee, psychotherapist and clinical psychologist, what personality traits such people seem to maintain as a group. Here is my go at a tongue-in-cheek, arms-length analysis of such characters:

1) The degree of ventilation (unfettered expressing of emotion to relieve anxiety) displayed is indicative of certain aspects of narcissism accompanied by contiguous and uncontrolled Pavlovian approach-avoidance behaviours. In other words, spoilt whiners with petulant reactions. The remedy is a month supporting Millwall.

2) The perennial but uncommon dissatisfaction with Arsene Wenger is a reflection of a form of arrested development seen in  immature persons with low self-esteem but delusional visions of grandeur. In other words adolescent angst shown by adults for whom success at any price is a viable lifestyle. The remedy is 2 months as Chelsea’s manager (a very long tenure for that club).

3) The transient and ephemeral neurotic adherence to a mythical illusion of historical perfection grounded in a false and irrational belief that such success is inevitably achievable through sufficiently enormous and unlimited financial recklessness. In other words ¨win at all costs¨ weathervane fans suffering from a despairing awareness that no one is listening to their apparently convincing and infallible expertise. In other words legends in their own minds being found out to be hollow strawmen.  The remedy is to have their access to Fantasy football Manager taken away for at least 3 months).

4) The unbelievably naive conviction and unfounded sense of entitlement to the idealized ¨top of the mountain¨ regularly displayed is a trait of the pseudo supporter, whose allegiance to the Club is predicated on the same club meeting his or her absolute standards of achievement, which no other Club in the world is expected to parallel. In other words an arm-chair Fantasy Football plastic fanboy whose sense of worth is predicated on an outside source meeting their impossible dreams.

The remedy is to support Liverpool for 4 months.

5) An orchestrated hysterical and excessively theatrical reaction from so-called Arsenal supporters to any setback perceived or real (often a tie, a win that is less ¨convincing¨, a hard fought loss under very difficult circumstances, etc.) is in actuality a seriously underdeveloped ego, whose fragility and shallowness reflects the true and underlying inherently failure-oriented mentality of these ¨fans¨.  In other words, a bunch of knee-jerks who can’t take the heat but want to stay in the kitchen as long as the stove is off. The remedy is  a cocktail: equal parts valium, x-lax and castor oil….gets the excrement moving.

6) The mob mentality displayed by these bullies, who seek to denigrate and demean anyone who contests their divinely inspired and infallible Football ¨expertise¨ is really a tribalism founded on feeble-minded and prejudicial hooliganism which is a direct descendant of the earlier extremism and lawlessness that prevailed in the UK, now known as the Millwall psychosis. In other words, if ya don’t like what I say…I’ll stick it up ya, ya wanker! The remedy is a 5 month sentence in a HRM detention centre of your choice, with no time off for any behaviour,good or bad.

There are more socio-emotional aberrant traits and attitudes these Gonners inevitably show but the above are presented in order to get the ball rolling, so to speak…..now on with the match!

——————————–

The books…

The sites…

 

72 comments to The Profile of a Pessimistic Gooner

  • LRV

    Don, I duff my hat to you.

  • Andrew Crawshaw

    Don, a masterful analysis but I’m sure the patients won’t take the prescribed medication.

  • Stevie E

    Brilliant. Can’t wait to see the responses to this one! just for once, can you guys not censor the posts so we can all have a good laugh? its been a shit day and I could do with a giggle 🙂

  • Matt Clarke

    I have long hoped for a psycho-analysis of ‘negative support’, so a big thanks to Don.

    I love the remedies suggested.

    At the same time, I won’t say too much myself, for fear that you’ll find me out for whatever ails me!

  • Sorry, but you have just done what you claim the negative fans do. There is no substance in your post – just a rant at people who don’t hold the same view as you.

    Poor form.

  • Sav from Australia

    Haha Don I like the suggested remedies. Nice article, cheers.

  • Matt Clarke

    @jayramfootball.
    …your post – just a rant at… (Dan) who don’t hold the same view as you.

    And there I go.

  • Northern Nuge

    Am I the only one who needed a dictionary to read this post? A good read I think!!!

  • bjtgooner

    Very enjoyable and funny article.

    There are additionally those who are pessimistic because they have an ulterior motive, or, are paid to be pessimistic and depressive. Remedy – testicular electric shock treatment?

  • RobL

    Sadly many people believe that if they declare something loud enough and long enough it is true.

  • elkieno

    Excellent post, that’s 2 I have read in space of 8 hours, last night and this morning.
    @Matt Clarke, well said…
    Also this article really makes me realize how much better other ppl are at this english language!

  • Pat

    Good laugh, Don.
    Especially the remedies.

  • Pyles Malmer

    What is there to be optimistic about? Every day is Groundhog Day when you support Arsenal. Wenger and the board never learn from past mistakes. The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing, all the while expecting different results…Albert Einstein. Wenger has lost the plot, the empiires and new clothes springs to mind. Arsenal are now the third best team in London, and falling, yet we were promised we would dominate Europe, let alone the Barclays Premier League. We cannot even beat Bradford, let alone Bayern. Chamakh, Squillacci, Park, Denillson, Almunia, that ridiculous crock Amauri Bischoff, Gervinho, Koscielny, where is it going to end? Would Sir Alex sign such players? Would David Dein? Kronke must be sacked and replaced by Usmanov before it is too late. Groups on social media are actively talking about a black balaclava protest at half time in a Feb fixture, watch this space!
    In Wenger we rust.

  • Florian

    Great piece of medicine Don, keep the pipe full!

    @Jayram, for you there is only one cure: to be terminated:) Your sense of humor received this treatment long ago anyway.

  • Domhuail

    Jamramfootball (whatever that is)…your statement that¨ There is no substance in your post¨ needs substantial explanation. Please do elucidate and enlighten UA readers with your idea of substance. I have no innate dislike of those whose opinions differ from mine and in fact encourage enlightened discussions but you can’t seem to hack that…so maybe you won’t lower yourself to discuss your views with anyone who isn’t a faithful disciple?

    You display appallingly poor form by making a challenge but failing to back it up with actual contrary, logical and intelligent arguments that we can get our teeth into.
    I guess you didn’t bother to read the article in the spirit and letter,(or maybe at all) so to speak but decided that my tongue-in-cheek post was far too ¨negative¨ for you.
    The type of thinking you display is superficial, irrational and disturbingly like the AAA LeGrovers who refuse to elucidate on their permanently pessimistic hatred for Arsenal.
    I invite you to take up my challenge and reply with something other than vacuous, unjustified and spurious criticism…..bet you won’t!

  • Domhuail

    Thanks to the vast majority of bloggers who got the gist of my post and had some fun over this holiday season….poor Jammypants didn’t enjoy himself(herself?)but c’est la vie!
    Season’s greetings to you all from snowy Canada.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Dear Don ,
    Well done ,sir , a very nice treatise albeit incomplete – where’s the mention of Orcs , Oxymorons and Cretinous bottom trawlers ? I do hope you continue this study in the same vein .
    And ,eerr ,Dom , you probably know that of late I’ve been posting what I perceive to be humour, but others (AAA)seem to think its some form of tribal ranting and “circling of the wagons’ to influence their(AAA) thinking( as if they ever think- there I did it again!) .
    My request is for you to analyse /judge me kindly as I really think I’m sane and if you think I need treatment, counselling and/or medication , kindly send me your findings in a plain brown envelope .
    Please , please do not post your findings on this site !Then I’ll really be done for !
    Also of late I’ll been thinking ,dreaming and posting about black scarves !Is this some form of fixatation ? And if so
    what’s to be done ?I think I had a normal childhood ,had no issues with my father and loved my mother ,if that’s any help?
    Neither do I have any sucidal thoughts nor tendencies in the event Arsenal don’t win anything( as GG opines ) for the rest on my natural ( ?) life !
    Thank you .

    Yours in trepidation ‘

    Dr.Rajah @ Brickfields Gunners

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Will have to log off and will be back after 3 days .

  • PM: the problem with leading with a quote is you have to get it right. Einstein did not say that – or anything like it. If you believe he did, give the source.

  • Timmy

    Very funny analysis Don,

    Pity is those people doesn’t have the mental capacity to understand these things and that’s if they read it at all.

  • Wow @Florian
    Your solution is to kill people who disagree with you. You need help mate.

    Anyway – the situation regarding the split between Arsenal fans is far more complex than who’s right and who’s wrong. There’s too much mud slinging between fans.

    I like Wenger as a man – he has integrity and loyalty which is rare in life let alone football. I just think he has done a poor job over the last few years. I don’t need anyone else to agree (though many do).

    What I WANT is for Arsenal to succeed, preferably with Wenger, but if he has to go in order for Arsenal to progress then I am all for that.

    The mistake made in my view is that negativity is interpreted as negativity about the club. Thats not true – it is negativity about the manager and players (and the way the club is being run). Too many people confuse supporting Arsenal with supporting the players and manager that are passing through in my opinion.

  • ARSENAL 13

    @jayramfootball…

    ….”what I want”. Its not about what you want or the ones who talk similarly want. Its about what is right for ARSENAL and its future.

    Therz nothing wrong in surviving with what you have. The credit card mentality may work instantly, what about your future.

  • Robl

    Hi Jayram, no many do not agree with you, just a few voiciforous bloggers and a handful of black scarf wearers as a %.

    The pundits…well if they could manage a team they would. The majority of us understand why we couldn’t pay RVP £250k a week, and that Wenger is punching above his weight year in and out on an extremely unlevel playing field.

  • Doublegooner

    RobL

    Do you seriously believe that it is a tiny minority that have dissatisfaction with the owner, the manager of both ?

  • @doublegooner

    It does make me laugh when people post that a tiny minority of Arsenal fans are unhappy , LOL. Some people would like to believe that is the case but they are just kidding themselves.

    @robl

    You will need to explain how Wenger is punching above his weight. He has chosen not to spend money – it HAS been available. Not to the level of City and Chelsea, but there has been no need for us to make a PROFIT over the years on player sales. We have spent less on transfers than teams with a fraction of the profit we make. It’s been a choice. As it stands we have the 4th highest wage bill in the country and until City came along the 3rd. We’ve won nothing for years and finished 3rd/4th.

  • @ARSENAL13

    I want Arsenal to succeed – that has nothing to do with a credit card culture. I do not want the club to overspend – and I dont believe we need to in order to succeed.

    Too many people use City and Chelsea as an excuse for our failures. We were winning the league when we had a fraction of the resources Utd had, and teams like Montpellier and Dortmund proved last year that money is not the only defining factor for success.

    As I said – the money angle has been latched onto as a very convenient excuse for failure.

  • RobL

    OK Ladies….

    @Doublegooner

    “Do you seriously believe that it is a tiny minority that have dissatisfaction with the owner, the manager of both ?”

    Yep, if 1000 people turned up with black scarfs it would be around 2% of the match day crowd.

    @ Jayramfootball

    “You will need to explain how Wenger is punching above his weight. He has chosen not to spend money – it HAS been available”

    Really? if I have to explain to you how Wenger is punching above his weight then there is no hope. Regarding choosing not to spend money and it being there – how do you know? do you see the accounts, do you sit in all the board meetings?

    We had a similar turnover to Spurs before Wenger came, yet HIS success has funded the Grove, at a huge cost to transfer budgets and wages, and ultimately short term success. The stadium will be there for ever and every subsequent manager will benefit from it.

    WE CAN’T OUTSPEND CITY, CHELSEA OR UNITED even if we found £200M under the carpet, nor can we compete head to head with with them for players, yet we still finished ahead of Chelsea last year.

    Yes I want to win trophies, but if I have to wait a while whilst the world goes through financial meltdown, knowing that the club I’ve watched since the early 70’s will still be around, then I’ll wait.

  • @Robl

    Yes I do see the accounts – so can you if you choose to do research, they are freely and easily accessed.

    No one is arguing against Wenger punching above his weight in his early years – he did a magnificent job to lift Arsenal to the top team in the land despite being financially dwarfed by Utd. If anything his success then just proves that money argument of the last 6-7 years is just an excuse.

    Again – no one has said we need to outspend City and Chelsea – you have just launched into that. It’s a common reaction by people who use money as an excuse. Could we however have spent a net £70m-80m over the last five years to have a better squad? Yes we could have and its all there in the account to see.

    Over the last few years Wenger has not been punching above his weight at all – if you just look at money then he is achieving about what he should have done, which is a decline on what he used to be able to achieve.

  • @Robl

    To suggest that the only dissenters amongst Arsenal fans are those that marched is really rather foolish.

    I could just as easily say that NO ONE is marching FOR Wenger – therefore he has no support. It would be just as foolish though.

  • @Dumbhuail (or whatever it is)

    Its really rather simple – the OP offers nothing of substance.

    Its a generalisation – albeit tongue in cheek – of comments that have been made on websites he has visited, laced with negative opinion on those that offer alternative views to his own.

    There are no quotes – for us to get our teeth into – that give us any clue as to why these people he talks about are ‘bullies’, or display a ‘mob mentality’. Nothing to back up the view that these people – whoever they are – are “theatrical”, “hysterical”, “naive” or “neurotic”.

    I could say that “All people who like Wenger are bullying idiots that need to go and support Liverpool for 4 months”. It would be no more stupid that the drivel written by the OP.

    The whole article is symptomatic of the problem Arsenal fans face these days. Two sides name calling and entrenching themselves in their own views – usually views that are extreme to try and score some points against the ‘other side’.

    Arsenal HAVE declined over the past few years, we’ve won nothing, our squad is weaker, and we DO have lots of cash to spend if we so choose.

    The debate surely needs to move up a level to ;
    why have we declined?,
    why have we chosen not to invest in the team (without getting into stupid ‘we cant match City’ comments’?,
    what do we need to do to get back on track?,
    is Wenger the best man to lead us forward and if so why?,
    why are we letting players get to the last year of their contracts?
    why do we pay large salaries to unproven players at the expense of paying more to our proven stars?…

    I would suggest that the OP himself has displayed all the traits of a theatrical, excessive, immature, bully.

  • Stuart

    Jayram,
    Just one thing here, I have also seen the account however this does not mean I have seen what money is available to Wenger, this is something completely different and for privelidged eyes only.

  • @Stuart
    I agree with you here.

    The question as to why we have not invested more is therefore not a question to be directed at Wenger, but rather the board.

    It should also be pointed out that the march before the Swansea game was not directed at Wenger, but the board.

    I should therefore change my earlier comment from ‘he has chosen not to spend it’ to ‘Arsenal have chosen not to spend it’

  • RobL

    @jayramfootball,

    You must be looking at a different set of accounts than me. All I see is a decreasing EBITDA which means the underlying profitability is not that great.

    Regarding your comment: “No one is arguing against Wenger punching above his weight in his early years – he did a magnificent job to lift Arsenal to the top team in the land despite being financially dwarfed by Utd. If anything his success then just proves that money argument of the last 6-7 years is just an excuse.”

    You comment that Wenger’s perceived poor performance in the last 6-7 years whilst choosing to ignore the Chelsea, then City effect, in addition to the Russian teams, PSG, Malaga (briefly)and all the others rich with Petro dollars, snapping up the players we would have got.

    Would 70-80M extra in the last 5 years have made a difference to the squad? £15M a year in wages and transfers isn’t a lot, and if used to keep some players would have increased wage inflation across the board way above this figure.

    Even when we tried to spend (Mata & Alvarez) Chelsea and Inter stepped in with wild offers and larger wages than our balance sheet can handle.

    So no, I don’t subscribe to your views, and as for marching for Wenger, no one arranged one as the majority of us show our support by signing his name in the ground.

  • americangooner

    some people should really be put into wenger’s shoes. just because some blog hypothesised that 70m is available doesn’t mean we have to spend the money all-out. maybe only 30-40m is available. another thing is 30-40m player won’t settle for 80K in salaries. he would probably want at Least 150K, which I’m sure arsenal isn’t gonna pay. lets say we bought the supposed player. what if he is injury prone later. won’t the moaners be crying out ‘wastage’ , ‘deadwood’ and all the derogatory words against their own players. 2-3 years ago the moaners were complaining of keeping injury prone RvP, now they are moaning about selling RvP. similar case can be made on theo walcott.

    lets assume wenger, the board and shareholders are completely replaced, will the moaning and the negativity stop? i seriously doubt.

    and lastly to quote Bergkamp “Do you love Arsenal, or just Arsenal with trophies”

  • @Robl

    The metric you should look at is the generation of cash (excluding financing).

    Arsenal have generated over £150m in cash (without taking out additional loans) over a 5 year period.

    If we had spent £80m of it along the way and only had £70m cash now would it have made a difference? I don’t know, but I feel that the addition of 3 world class players over those years added to our current squad would have given us a chance.

    I don’t subscribe to your views that we have not won anything because of Chelsea and City. It was Bradford knocking us out of the cup last week, and Birmingham beating us in the final a couple of years back, not City or Chelsea. Spurs have closed over the same period and even the most biased gooner would have to admit we have been very lucky to keep our noses ahead of them.

    In 2008, we imploded when the pressure was on in the title race – it was not City or Chelsea that caused that. In my view we had the best team that year, despite Chelsea’s and Utd’s millions.

    We have conceded more goals in recent years – again not City or Chelsea’s fault. Our defending has been one of the key reasons for our decline.

    We’ve invested less in our squad (NET) than Stoke City – not City’s fault, not Chelsea’s fault.

    I could keep listing issues that had nothing to do with City or Chelsea.

    I will also point out again that the richest club does not always win the league – as I said try telling that to Dortmund or Montpellier.

    But, I say again – even if you ONLY take money into account, Wenger has been operating with a squad which is the 4th highest paid in the league and 3rd before City came along – so he is certainly NOT “punching above his weight”. That phrase has become a catch all excuse whenever Wenger is questioned.

    In terms of wages – we pay about 85% of what Utd pay their squad. Our issue is their model allows them to pay their top stars competitive salaries, whilst we pay 2nd and 3rd stringers too much money. How do I know that?

    Simple- @85% of Utds wage bill, if we had a sensible model we could pay players like RVP 85% of what he is getting at Utd… i.e. £175k a week, or Walcott £150k a week for example. We could COMPETE at the top level of wages. Instead we are offering £75-£100k to our top stars, so where is the rest of the money going? On lesser players.

    Now it could be that we’re all mistaken and that RVP WAS offered something like £175k a week. If that were the case then the fact he chose to leave would be even more damning.

    I know it won’t matter what is said or what facts are produced from the accounts – as soon as Wenger is questioned, the immediate response is to do with City and Chelsea. No thought, just an excuse.

  • By the way our profit before tax has been rising steadily over the period.

    I refer you to page 3 in the attached.

    http://www.arsenal.com/assets/_files/documents/oct_11/gun__1318505919_Arsenal_Holdings_plc_Annual_Re.pdf

    That takes us up to 2010.

    The last 2 years have seen a fall in profits – but we still made £50m over those 2 years.

    You will notice that the reason for the fall in profit is the huge increase in wages – as I said we have been increasing wages in line with Utd.

    Somehow they manage to compete despite Chelsea and City.

  • Further it should be pointed out that the growth in profits up to 2010 were inflated due to property sales, so the ‘decline’ over the last two years is to be expected – there is no underlying decline on the football side.

    As I said we have generated huge amounts of cash – whilst comfortably paying off stadium debt and increasing wages to a level that is @85% of Manchester United.

  • Stuart

    Jayram,
    If we had spent £70 Million, we certainly would not have got 3 world class players for it, in fact we’d barely have got 1. Further to this, it is possible to link the emergence of City and Chelsea to the unavailability of quality players and especially at affordable prices. Our business model was written to facilitate the new stadium and satisfy financiers, this happened before Chelsea and City started exaggerating prices, something which absolutely no one did or could have predicted. I think mistakes have been made but it’s not just as simple as throwing a bit of money at it.

  • Florian

    @jayram: You really read only the first line of what people post. Or, worse you don’t get it. Shall I translate in English what “your sense of humor was terminated a long time ago” means?

  • @Stuart

    Even last year Cazorla was brought in at £16-£20m (varying reports). He is a world class player. Three more players of his standard in our team and I think we would be challenging.

    This also covers the point about top players being available that can be brought in despite City and Chelsea paying over the odds.

    I agree that £80 will not buy three world class strikers but it would buy a £40m striker and two £20m players – a holding midfielder and a defender.

  • @Florian lets put the whole quote in shall we:

    “@Jayram, for you there is only one cure: to be terminated:) Your sense of humor received this treatment long ago anyway.”

    No room for misinterpretation. As I said you need help.

  • @Stuart

    By the way I agree that throwing money at the problem is not the answer. I think our balance has been wrong- that is all.

    We’ve actually made a profit in the transfer market over the period that has brought so much angst amongst Arsenal fans.

    If we were forced into that to pay off debts then I could understand it, but we have not been – evidenced by our huge profits over the period.

    I maintain that we should have invested a little more each season and maintained the squad. My view is that had we done so we would have been competing for titles over the period.

    I rather suspect that the board got into a mindset of ‘what if we miss the CL money’ and compensated. What we have ended up with is an ultra conservative strategy which has indeed put us in a very healthy financial state but at a cost of leaving us with an uncompetitive squad.

  • Stuart

    Yes Jayram but three Cazorlas at £16-20 Mil leaves not enough for their wages

  • @Stuart

    Ah but as i mentioned above our wages have been a major issue in my view. We have a wage bill of £142m. That’s plenty but we pay too much to second a third string players, leaving us short in competing to pay stars the money they command.

    Did you know we have 71 professionals on the books. I could name 10 players that could be sold that would make NO difference to our set up right the way down to the development team. They are sucking up wages that could be used far more wisely in my view.

  • Oh and yes – I do know they can’t just be sold as NO ONE wants them, but that is where we are NOW. If we had been smarter over the last 6 years or so we would have never got ourselves into the position where we have so many ‘nothing’ players that neither feature for even the reserves or the development teams..

  • Stuart

    Yes Jayram, you said and I agree wages have been an issue but you comment was along the lines that we could have signed three world class players in the current circumstance.

  • @Stuart – I actually meant over the period instead of hoarding the cash, but I can see how you could have read it that way.

    The build up of useless expensive players over the years is one of my major gripes and this MUST be laid firmly at the door of Wenger.

    Over the next 2-3 years I would expect a number of the contracts to run down so it might take till the to really get back on track – especially as new income is one the way.

  • americangooner

    its easy to tell some players are just sucking up wages on hindsight.
    Arshavin was bought when champions league spot was threatened. he basically rescued arsenal, not singlehandedly of course, nevertheless important. chamack had a bright start. maybe he could not handle our one-man-striker formation and slowly lost form. diaby had two full seasons. he was influential on one those and hence his contract was extended. santos never really was a left back. he himself said he likes playing an advanced role. when he was played in the midfield against spurs, he had played well. the same can be said of ramsey i.e. playing out of position.

    arsene isn’t known for signing big buck player. maximum he splurged is on cazorla. plus he can’t be solely faulted with whatever the scouts try to bring. for wenger arsenal is a long-term project and be will see the end of it.

  • @americangooner

    Yes it is much easier to look in hindsight at who was a bad buy, but it doesn’t exempt the person who made those bad decisions from criticism.

    If you make a series of mistakes in your job, it is a bit of a stretch to say that you didn’t know it was a bad decision therefore you are not to blame!

    The bottom line is we have a slew of players that are not good enough and are sucking up wages.

    Surely that is Wenger’s fault?

  • Florian

    Alright, this is too much.

    Jayram,

    You know and I know that I would never do such a thing. So, just calm down. In every respect, not just about me. Maybe that will help you see things a little differently, hopefully more clear. Until then, you’ll be the perfect fit for the purpose of this article.

  • ARSENAL 13

    @ Jayaram…

    You are looking at the same thing again and again….. ARSHAVIN had a good one (and a half) season with us. Chamak had a good start. He delivered when the dutch @#$% was spending time at the hospital. MAY be only questionable buys…..Park and Squillaci.

    The starts that Arshavin and Chamak had to their ARSENAL career, no one could have foretold their current form could they…. AND they were not young players we were taking a gamble on. They were /are internationals..

  • @Florian

    Calm down? It’s not me who is saying people should be terminated.

    I am stating some opinions without getting angry – perfectly calm. What do think is not calm?

  • @ARSENAL 13

    You are rehashing the same point. It doesn’t matter if you can’t foretell what will happen – who can?

    The bottom line is we have a number of players on our books who were bad buys and are sucking up wages without contributing. That is the point and its a very valid one I think, especially given our current wage bill.

    The manager of the club is responsible for the players brought in (usually, and certainly in Wengers case). I am not saying he is a bad manager, but he has made several errors recently in the transfer market. He can be criticised without going to the extreme, and rather silly, views portrayed in the OP.

  • Stevie E

    jayramfootball
    Just checked out your blog thing, judging by all the “likes” you get on twitter, Facebook and G+ I would say your opinion is not really that of the people. 0 isn’t really a figure to be proud of is it? The truth is, you clearly can’t even write an article which people agree with, so that surely that tells you something about your opinions..? I also think you using DB10s pic as your avata is a massive insult to the great man, if I may suggest you’re more of a Stewart Robson kinda guy.

  • @Stevie E

    What an utterly stupid response.
    As you can’t read I will help you.

    We have nearly 1000 likes on Facebook, and on the forum I post in I have 83 likes vs 1 dislike – and we’ve been live for just 4 months – we dont update Twitter. You have displayed the characteristics I would expect though. Choose the number that suits your attack and ignore the other facts.

    So I guess that renders your post as being the most pathetic of the day. Well done. Get a life.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Do you love Arsenal, or do you love Arsenal for the trophies? 😉

  • @Walter

    Both mate!

    By the way – Dennis didn’t say that 😉

  • Here are some real Bergkamp quotes:

    “I feel there are a lot of similar players there at the moment, it needs to be more diverse.”

    “You need a few strong characters who can get the team going, in training as well as matches. You also need a few players who can make a difference in terms of scoring goals. I don’t feel there are enough of them.”

    “You look at the midfield and compare it with ours. We had Freddie Ljungberg, Robert Pires, Ray Parlour – when it wasn’t working for one of the big names, one of these could step up.”

    “You can’t only depend on one or two players, When they’re having an off day, you need someone else.”

    “I think this is because tactically we approach too many games too negatively”

    “It’s as if it’s now become acceptable for us to come away with a point from away matches.”

    “This is strange and I don’t really understand it. We’re Arsenal and we should be approaching all games to win.”

    “If only we approached away games more positively, I reckon there would be few, if any, teams in Europe that could cope with us.”

    There are many more – Dennis has been quite critical of Arsenal over the past two years.

    It doesn’t mean he doesn’t like Arsenal – with or without trophies.

  • Stevie E

    jayramfootball
    Wow, you really are a charmer aren’t you? Funnily enough the page which opened when I clicked your link took me to a page of articles, each of which could be liked on Facebook, twitter and G+. None of those articles had a single like. Not 1.

    I also love the way when someone like you is challenged it becomes an attack, I’m just pointing out nobody seems to agree with the latest articles you’ve written and suddenly I’m unable to read and am attacking you! I really seem to have hit a nerve.

    That’s for showing your true colours by calling me stupid, illiterate (which is weird seeing as how you’re angry about what I wrote) and pathetic. It truly is the sign of a real wit who needs to resort to insults when their view is challenged. Shouting someone down doesn’t make you right mate, your .2% of Untolds readership proves that.

    Oh,by the way, another Arsenal win, bet that really pisses you off eh?

  • @Stevie E

    I think you were the one who went on the attack and dont have the decency or debating skill to actually address any points made.

    Its not my fault you dont understand how social media works.

    As I said we have nearly 1000 likes on FB

    As for the result today I am delighted – I guess you just would like to think otherwise eh?

    Learn to debate mate and I might take you more seriously.

  • Stevie E

    Jayramfootball
    Again, 1000 likes, wow that’s really impressive. But, the articles I saw had none. Sorry I couldn’t be arsed to trawl through your archives to find all the yeah we hate Wenger too thumbs up. I didn’t go on the attack, I just pointed out that your opinion isn’t agreed with here or on your own blog. Hardly guns blazing is it? However you called me stupid, illiterate and pathetic, I’m sure the debating societies at Eton have a space reserved for you. Whether you take me seriously makes no difference to me “mate”, you and your ilk are boring, have nothing original to say and keep churning out the same argument over and over again. There’s no debating with you because you won’t accept that you could be wrong. Wether that’s because you lack the intelligence to see things from another point of view or you’re blindly following whatever the media want you to think, I don’t know, I just wish you’d say something enlightened, just for once, just to prove original thought. Cos all I hear from you is baaaa…

    Glad you enjoyed the win, I enjoyed it too, really pleased to see a battling performance even if we did drop off too much in the last 15.

  • Stevie E

    I have made several points that you have failed to argue against – you seem more interested in personal attacks. That’s why I don’t take you seriously.

    For your information, I don’t have a blog, its a forum with about 15 regular guys who chat. We don’t write articles. We’ve been going for about 4 months so its hardly surprising we don’t have 800k visitors a month! It’s a bit unfair to compare it to a site like this which is one of the busiest Arsenal blogs in the world. You were not far off with your percentage though – we have about 3k visits per month

    There are too many fans – like you – who go to extremes at the slightest hint of criticism of Wenger. You seem not to have an argument, just a defence mechanism which leads you to attack.

    Go back and read my points – there are several. If you have a different view then state it. My forum has nothing to do with it.

    If you truly believe that my views expressed in this article are not agreed with by anyone else then you need to read more.

    This is a pro Wenger site and as such I accept that any criticism of him here will not be widely supported. I don’t have a problem with that. I do however have to state the obvious fact that there is not much support of Wenger with facts here (outside of some of the excellent articles), more of an attack on anyone who strays from the positive path. I have yet to see a single one of my points countered with a lucid argument.

    I thought today was a great result – I am particularly impressed with Mertesacker this season. He is making a difference. We still need to be busy in the January window though in my opinion, or we will be in a very tough fight for CL places.

  • rupert cook

    @jayram, I thought you made some very valid points. I do find the attitude of some on here extremely simplistic. Take Stevie E. for instance. As soon as you question some of Wenger’s decisions he calls your arguments unoriginal which I think is a bit of humour on his part as he used the same attack on me which rather shows he’s actually being unoriginal.

    The other thing that Stevie E. and his ilk seem to believe is that anyone who doubts Wenger is a member of this mythical AAA beast and therefore want Arsenal to lose the majority of their games. These people are quite surprised when we so called AAA acolytes celebrate every Arsenal victory. The world is black and white to some people obviously.

    For the record, I’d like us to win every game whether under Wenger or not.

  • Stevie E

    Hi Rupert
    Thanks for reading my mind, it’s always refreshing to be told what my opinion is. The truth is most of the arguments against Wenger are unoriginal, it’s the same thing repeated ad nauseum and is usually triggered by a non story in the press. I’ve seen stories linking Arsenal with a player, it being denied by Wenger, and when the mythical transfer doesn’t take place, it’s used against the club and manager. How our seasons over by the halfway point yet we seem to be in 3rd place. No doubt that’s more to do with others failings as opposed to anything AW or the team have done, he results have gone in our favour argument. It’s extremely boring and is pointless arguing against. The mind has already been made up and no amount of common sense will change it. Sadly we live in a culture in which we are constantly brain washed by media of all sorts. I find those who are unable to see they are being brainwashed sad and misguided. You might think the same of me, that me thinking Wenger is still the best man for Arsenal and he is deserving of a lot more respect than a lot of supposed supporters give him is wrong. Fair enough. Don’t really care. I just fail to understand why you choose to use this forum to spout this opinion. You’re obviously in the wrong place, you won’t get the debate you claim to want, and judging by jayramfootball’s name calling of me yesterday and your cry of bully any time anyone challenges you, just want people to agree with you. How boring is that. So yeah, I won’t argue against your points.Your arguments have been had with many people before you so what’s the point in repeating them, you won’t agree with me and I won’t agree with you.

    I won’t bother to engage jayramfootball again, someone who uses insults as soon as challenged is obviously lacking in certain areas. Whereas you, a challenge of your view is classed as an attack, you love to portray yourself as the victim, that anyone who disagrees is simply a bully. That’s rubbish. The truth is if you can’t stand to have your opinion questioned, don’t post on a forum which is obviously and unashamedly opposed to yours. The statements you make are obviously designed to cause offence, it’s no surprise that you are considered to be nothing more than a trouble maker on this site. Sorry, I just can’t take you seriously. You complain that I lament your lack of original thought yet still have nothing original to say. If the shoe fits…

  • Adam

    Here is a hypothetical thought for some of you out there. Arsenal are storing their financial wealth. In the same manner in which investment funds work, Maybe Arsene is hoping to stash away so much cash he can bring in a few players in the future on the interest alone. Just a crazy thought since were all pissing in the wind.

  • @Stevie E

    Your claims of me throwing insults at you right off the bat will not wash – with anyone.

    The thread is here for all to read. You started off being aggressive and condescending and got the response you deserved.

    As for your latest post – you haven’t referenced any point actually made on this thread. I don’t think anyone was talking about mythical transfers.

  • Stevie E

    Jayramfootball
    Last time I’m gonna engage, read this or don’t, not bothered…

    You said @Stevie E

    What an utterly stupid response.
    As you can’t read I will help you.

    So I’m stupid and illiterate. 1st two sentences. Right off the bat to paraphrase you. But obviously me clicking your link and commenting that you have 0 likes etc on any of those articles is just wrong and aggressive? You really are a delicate flower aren’t you.

    As for your points, seen it all before, debated it all before. You’ve nothing interesting, engaging or original to say. It’s all been said and done before.

  • Al

    Years ago I attended one of these talks where one speaker said there are people who need their daily dose of negative headlines to get going. He said something to the effect they get up, see a headline saying 52 dead in such and such a place, and it makes them kinda ‘go rather them than me’, and it makes them feel better. Not quite the same here but the point is some of the fans we have here thrive on negativity, it sort of gives them a kick and they need their daily fix of it. I bet they Google Arsenal every morning and carefully pick out only the negative articles talking about comments made by the Stewart Robsons & Usmanovs of their world, etc., for their daily consumption. There’s just no pleasing this lot; if we win 1nil our strikers were wasteful, 5-2 and our defence was shambolic, 5nil & they’ll pick on how one player kept giving away possession…. it goes on and on. I’m trying hard to remember any positive posts from either Rupert or Jayramfootball. This isn’t an attack on you two, but your consistently being negative on almost any topic doesn’t do you any favors.

  • Stuart

    Rupert Cook,
    re “For the record, I’d like us to win every game whether under Wenger or not.”

    Sorry, couldn’t resist but is that EVERY game or just every game you watch. If the latter then we’d be in trouble.

  • bjtgooner

    @Stuart

    Yes, the rupert still feels able to make a depressive comment on a match even when he goes to the cinema or hears a part radio commentry – what a find for the AAA!

  • @Stevie E

    Still nothing interesting to say I see – still no response to any point, just more drivel from you. Dear oh dear, at least you have the good sense to make your last post the end of your drivel.

    My response to you was well deserved on your part as I said. When your opening address to me is so insulting you get exactly the right response in fact.

    You seem to be one of those annoying little fellows who throws stones and then cries when they come back.

    Now grow up.

  • @Al

    Check what people actually write before name checking them please.

    I am positive about some aspects of the club and negative about others. I don’t subscribe to the view that you have to be one or the other.

    Within this forum I was indeed positive about yesterdays win – and indeed some of the players.

    I have said this several times, but it seems as though ANY criticism gets you put into this category created by fans who ONLY want to see the positives. To me they are as deluded as the fans who ONLY want to see the negatives.