By Tony Attwood
The story of Rangers has long fascinated Untold, not least because we were one of the first (I can’t really say ‘the first’ since I don’t know who was first) to suggest that big clubs could start to fall to bits for all sorts of reasons.
Somehow, in the minds of many football followers, the demise of Leeds United either didn’t count, or was seen as a one-off. The impending collapse of Portsmouth was also dismissed – although this time because they were not deemed really a big club.
But Rangers, that was a different matter. When the stories started to emerge that they were going to go out of business, there were many who simply would not or could not believe it – but go bust they most certainly did. Even now many fans in England still don’t believe that there will be further collapses. Rangers are, after all, Scottish and it is different in Scotland.
But they are continuing to make waves, and it is just possible that they will in the next year or two make a wave so big, that it could affect all of football.
The issue involves what league Rangers might play in. At the moment they are in the fourth tier of Scottish football (Scottish League Division 3). But for many years they have been saying that they should not be in Scottish football at all.
At the moment there is a plan to change Scottish football’s structure yet again and have a first division of 12, a second division of 12, and a third division (which would include Rangers no matter where they end up at the end of the season – and winning their league looks a formality).
What Rangers want to do is join or set up a league with clubs in other countries where there are just a few clubs who can win the league each y ear. Standard Liège are the club often cited in this regard as they are looking to see if they can find a way to leave the Belgium league and play in the French League. Fifa however have said that this would not be allowed. (Swansea playing in the Premier League, and Berwick playing in the Scottish League are seen to be anomalies from the past, and allowable anyway because they are actually in the country of the United Kingdom).
Now this argument is one that Rangers could exploit – since at different times the clubs cited above, and others, have played outside their part of the UK – although of course Rangers would have to persuade the Football League to let them in.
But there have been previous attempts to expand the number of clubs playing across the borders within the UK. In 1972 for example, fed up with endlessly being refused a place within the Football League Wigan applied to join the Scottish League. The application was refused by the Scottish League but not for non-qualification reasons.
So no way forward then… except that Charles Green, the Rangers CEO has said he might try and utilise EU sex discrimination laws against Uefa.
His argument is that there is a cross-border league which is sanctioned by Uefa: a professional women’s league that takes in Belgium and the Netherlands. He has also said that Rangers could apply to join the Conference in England. Obviously some Conference clubs would welcome the once a season pay-out from playing Rangers. I don’t know if Conference clubs keep all their home gate money or if they share it with the away club, as the Football League clubs used to do, but even one full-house (quite possibly at double prices) is better than nothing.
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The books…
- Woolwich Arsenal: The club that changed football – Arsenal’s early years
- Making the Arsenal – how the modern Arsenal was born in 1910
- The Crowd at Woolwich Arsenal FC: crowd behaviour at the early matches
The sites…
- Referee Decisions – just what are the refs up to this season?
- Parent News – what is going on in schools these days?
- The weight loss programme: The only guaranteed way to stay fit
- The Arsenal History Blog from the AISA Arsenal History Society
- Looking for a terraced house in Northamptonshire?
Rangers supporters will follow their team no matter who they play and from which league ! We go to Ibrox to see Rangers and show respect to most opposition and to enjoy the game.The quicker the Club moves to England, the better.The vast majority of the Rangers family are keen to remain British.We do not want to be part of a small minded, bigoted country as proposed by the Nationalists !International is now in our company name after all and I for one would be delighted if we enhanced and extended our growing world brand in England!
i have read your article on Rangers, and i have got to say, amidst all the anti rangers stuff over the last few years. It is great to hear some sense prevail. We have a mass of affiliation with England and our fellow football fans. Not because i love Rangers, but because all leagues need a financial boost and a boost to local”excitment and interest” levels. We bring a happy but surpressed support that will follow our team through feilds of thick treacle to any games. Keep up the good work. #See You at Ibrox for the away game lol
Just to put you right mate , rangers football club is not their proper and legal name anymore
Look it up and you will find their new real name ( rangers football club died )
But apparently they….wait for it…. BOUGHT THE HISTORY….of the old club and transferred all the titles to the new club lol
Maybe if this is allowed to happen ( only in scotland lol )you`re club could bid on Barcelona and Madrids history and you would become the best club in the world overnight if the two clubs mentioned allowed the sale of their history
Good luck if you`re club decides to make a bid…i will be watching with interest
After consultation with(and blessings of) the Far East betting syndicates ,why not Tax Havens ?
In its December 2008 report on the use of tax havens by American corporations,[6] the U.S. Government Accountability Office was unable to find a satisfactory definition of a tax haven but regarded the following characteristics as indicative of it:
nil or nominal taxes;
lack of effective exchange of tax information with foreign tax authorities;
lack of transparency in the operation of legislative, legal or administrative provisions;
no requirement for a substantive local presence; and
self-promotion as an offshore financial center.
Seems a great deal to me and they get to FUCK FIFA !
Full article here –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_haven
I for one would welcome the added competition within our pyramid. You know full well that Rangers would rise through the leagues rapidly. I have always stated that football is a sport of location and I have no problem with clubs of history joining our leagues or our clubs joining other leagues. Where I disagree with the author is allowing second string sides in to the pyramid (but that’s a separate issue). Rangers would benefit financially once they got themselves in to the championship. If they got in to the prem I believe they would light the bloody thing up. Throw Celtic in the mix and wow watch the fireworks.
Could someone explain if the problem is with FIFA or UEFA the article is not that clear, unless I have miss read.
Rangers are only interested in English football for the money – their business model is far from stable despite the £22m they got from their recent IPO. They have Div3 income and SPL costs – massive crowds at home – but paying as little as £5/ticket. Talk of going into anything below the Championship is moon shine.
Please welcome them with open arms.
Don’t worry the trashing of Manchester was caused by the broken big screen. It was a one-off and is unlkely to happen again!
In many leagues, like NBA, Rangers would be able to buy another team’s franchise rights. Can that happen in this case? Can Rangers go to Portsmouth and say, hey you’re broke anyway, so why don’t we make a deal and you nice chaps can just shove off.
@Sammy The Snake
I think the issue is where they would play their games. My understanding is that there is nothing to stop Rangers buying up a smaller club in England but they would then have to play home games in England.
@adam
“You know full well that Rangers would rise through the leagues rapidly”
For any club to suddenly drop down a number of divisions would be catastrophic and not guarantee in any way a return to the top. If for some crazy accounting error or other, Arsenal were suddenly dropped to the bottom rung of the ladder, the first thing would be the immediate loss of all top calibre players. The academy types would still probably be good enough to win the first couple of tiers (1 year at a time, not exactly rapidly), as years progressed the standard of players available would begin to merge with the standard of competition and by the time we were third or fourth tier we’d be only another club (albeit with a glorious past and a big empty stadium) . Continued progression would become harder and harder over the years it would take to work their way up (even winning every year). Rangers might just get away with it in Scotland as the drop was just 4 levels and competition up there is not so intense. Having a single superpower in the SPL makes the league a joke as it stands and it can only loose by the absence of a true alternative to Celtic.
A couple of comments:
1. Over the last couple of years there have been rumours of both Celtic and Rangers looking into buying out Portsmouth and using that as a route into English football. Pompey keep surviving somehow, and as long as someone is interested in them as a going concern, I suspect they will remain in the English leagues as they are.
2. For all the tantrums Rangers (2012 version) have been throwing over the last week or so, this proposed reorganisation doesn’t affect them adversely at all. At the moment they are in the fourth tier of Scottish football, and short of them refusing to play any more games this season they will be promoted to the third tier come May, and probably much sooner. The reorganisation will leave them in a new third tier of Scottish football, so their path back to the top has not been made any longer or more difficult than it is at the moment.
3. At the end of the day there is no benefit to English football taking either Celtic or Rangers (I speak as someone who is Celtic by birth, Arsenal by choice). Take Rangers in and you have the potential for a Siege of Manchester every away game, and the poison they bring with their “charming” array of songs. Celtic’s travelling fan base are much better behaved and have a much better international reputation, but the club’s core Irishness will bring its own baggage at certain grounds. No, the status quo is by far the best situation as far as this issue is concerned.
There is no way that the EPL teams will want Rangers or Celtic to gain memebership. Forget about anything else it would put pressure on the top 4/5 as these two Scottish giants given the resources gained from TV would be up there and challenge the established order.
I understand that there is a dispensation for Welsh clubs but lets be honest Welsh clubs have played in the English League since near enough day one and in truth other than the odd season or two we havent see a Welsh team in the top tier for a sustained period.
I note you talk about Wigan but I believe there is already an English team in the Scottish set up (Berwick)
I said in an earlier thread that there is more of a possibility of a Eureopean league and whilst none of the European giants will take the lead on this broadcasters like Sky are in the wings and if they sense an opportunity they will be in like a shot.
As they say be careful what you wish for!
Dec, well that’s your opinion I have mine. Rangers “IF” they were introduced to English football would become a massive (and I mean huge, humongous, titanic on biblical proportions) investment opportunity for the wealthy who would jump at the chance to bankroll their rise through the pyramid knowing full well the riches that await them in the top flight. Come on mate think about it. They already possess the quality to rise uninterrupted through our leagues.
Rangers have a massive fan base that would only grow if introduced to English football, that old rivalry will be on display every game. The Scottish would revel in it and it would be an amazing spectacle. TV would fall over itself following their rise.
The only hypothetical problem I envisage is them getting out of the Championship that may take more than one go.
I for one would love to see all UK’s football combined but I cannot see it happening we would lose to much within UEFA and FIFA.
@Dec, Mate Rangers are on their arse, agreed? How much are they worth? and how much do you think they will be worth as a premier league side with a shout at the champions league?
Hypothetical, Yes but no unachievable.
It would brilliant..let them start in the conference north.all clubs they play would benefit and I’m sure it would pump more cash into our game..they would be a massive hit.
I admire your optimism Adam, I can just see the huge interest on watching Rangers play in the 8th tier of English football. It would just about equal the watching paint dry championships. And it would go on for years. The quality of players would be soooo diluted after couple of seasons that they’d simply become adequate for their level. After 8 years on the wilderness people would have forgotten who Rangers once were.
As I said you have your opinion, I have mine. I admire your optimism at Glasgow Rangers remaining an amateur club within the English pyramid should they ever gain entry. Think Rod Stewart might pump some money in first.
One important lesson should be learnt by all involved in our professional game, that if a famous Club like Rangers (one of the two top in Scotland) can fall by the wayside, then no Club is absolutely safe.
In my view though, unless the UK introduces a national football league, Rangers should remain within Scotland, otherwise it makes a mockery of the present system.
I can imagine FIFA querying a future Scottish national side containing (say) 4 or 5 Rangers players who play in the EPL.
Surprised no one has pulled me up on that yet?
Whilst Rangers fascinates us, the story Untold is Arsene’s pained and painful to read musings about selling RVP to Don Fergus. Here’s an interesting account of that gift that keeps on giving (which was raised yesterday in Amy Lawrence’s story on it, and which is picked up in today’s Cultured Left Foot analysis, and interesting enough to be worth people’s reading):
http://www.aclfarsenal.co.uk/
p.s. This is the Amy Lawrence (Friday) piece that CLF refers to today (Sat): http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/jan/11/phone-call-manchester-united-van-persie
Good article. Very surprised that you’ve written about my beloved Rangers and haven’t had the first piece of propaganda from the second most successful club in Scotland until the third response. They usually manage to get the first 150 or so in. But hey, they’re not obsessed!
USed to live in London (Finsbury Park) and Arsenal became my English team from that point. When I wasn’t going up to Ibrox, used to get along to watch the Gunners. I’ve always been very envious of the EPL (and its previous incarnations), as it’s certainly one of the best leagues in the World. You only need to look at the money that the bottom team in the EPL earns compared to the winners of the SPL to realise just how well Rangers and Celtic do up there without the financing that is received in England. That said, I can’t ever see there being the groundswell that gets either Rangers or Celtic into the EPL, as while there is plenty in it for each of them, there’s bugger all in it for the EPL clubs – especially those who would risk being demoted. I’m not saying it will never happen, but think that the likes of a breakaway Atlantic League is much more likely. The smaller countries (and lets face it, it’s population alone that decides this, because the tv money isn’t interested in advertising to a country of 5 million when they could be advertising to one of 50 million) are struggling to get their share of the pie and while this continues, they will look for ways to increase their revenue. I believe that an Atlantic League or something similar would then enable the Rangers and Celtics to join with the Dutch, Danes and Belgians, for example, to produce a league that would be much more interesting and competitive than any of those in those smaller countries at present. And that, in itself, would create more revenue.
I would absolutely love to see Rangers playing Arsenal and the other big guns on a regular basis, but would be really surprised if it happens in my lifetime.
Oh, and a final couple of post-scripts:
Love hearing about the well-behaved jolly Celtic fans (as described by James). That will be why Dundee have been talking about the worst scenes at their ground for 20 years after the Boxing Day game. I guess that urinating in the stands and fighting amongst each other is just the craic! And as for the “charming array of songs”, methinks that the saying about glass houses comes to mind!
And Adam – think you’ve been left alone for your Rod Stewart (the Englishman pretending to be a Scotsman, supporting a Scottish team pretending to be Irish) comment as you were clearly fishing! 🙂
Maybe people should to some research on your typical Hun, belting their famine songs out, who wants that, imagine Chelsea fans drunk and on in steroids…
They are big in small pond, wouldbt work here, romantic idea tho.
@Tony: I thought some dude started a website called bigtaxcase.com or something.
There are 600,000 in Glasgow and almost half support old firm, so you would have day trippers going to games and being good, then you would have the rest just going for trouble, they can’t help thenselves. Ever since my sister married one, I have been surrounded by them and they good people but when football is on they change especially v Celtic. People die almost every old firm game in northern Ireland, Glasgow, would it be different in England or magnified? Especially if Celtic go too and you can’t have one without the other surely.
In contrast Celtic get awards for their fans behavior…
Comon you gunners, spurs drew we need to win!
James’s assertion that the proposed restructuring of Scottish football will not materially affect Rangers is wrong. It would keep Rangers in the bottom tier of the league structure while ensuring the top division benefitted most from the TV money the club attracts to the game. After a year of abuse from the game’s authorities – reference the illegal transfer ban; the threatened withholding of a professional license pending acceptance of the current TV deal, from which we get a pittance; the continuation of the committee, briefed by Celtic’s lawyers, tasked with finding a crime to fit the pre-determined punishment of stripping of titles – what is planned adds further insult, while doing nothing to address the paucity of young talent in the Scottish game or banish the boredom of watching teams play each other at least four times a season. Celtic are quite content, though, since they’ll rack up more tainted titles and the consequent access to European riches.
As for Celtic supporters being better behaved than Rangers’: really?! You might want to ask the Dundee chairman about that, following the merry pranksters’ recent visit.
Despite Charles Green’s bluster, Rangers’ exit from Scottish football is unlikely to happen anytime soon. First up will be Celtic’s plea to UEFA asking to be allowed entry to England on account of Scottish football having become a basket case – by the design of the puppets in the SFA working to the Parkhead club’s agenda.
Celtic have the best behaved fans in the Green Tinted Universe ! Check the supressed reports of the recent Boxing Day match at Dundee.Very charming supporters from Glasgow`s East End – just ask the Dundee stewards and police on duty that day !
Ask uefa who got an award for Europes best behaved in uefa cup final v Porto? Which they lost to diving cheating time wasting Porto, not 1 arrest!
Now fast forward a few years to Manchester, ohh…
Every club has bad a bad element, but when Celtic go international or when worked watching, they behave.
Rangers don’t they are hung up on everything….
* when worlds watching.
Just cos they hoist the union jack and sing god save queen, don’t make them
Gentlemen…
@Roonknock: “We do not want to be part of a small minded, bigoted country as proposed by the Nationalists”.
Rangers are exactly that, it starts with them and ends with them.
The fact they were caught out cheating and got punished, to then whinge and say not fair shows how deluded they are. Then when they are not in SPL, the SPL then want to revamp it so will ask every club if they like the proposal, if yes it goes ahead. They are nit part if the SPL now of even in the next 3 years so font get a vote. Not hard to understand but they still can’t take it and want to leave the SPL now? SORE LOSERS!!!
My grandfather used to go to the Old firm derby with a flask of whiskey in one coat pocket and a brick in the other. When my mother asked him why, he said the flask was to keep him warm and the brick was to bash a Catholic (Celtic fan)! This is back in the 20’s when their rivalry was very intense and there was severe anti-Catholic feelings in Glasgow.
I don’t live in the UK but do know the intensity of the Old Firm rivalry that is still apparent today. Would Rangers be able to handle the needed divisional promotion to make it to the premier league and the subsequent quality teams they’d face….I have my doubts, the same for Celtic but one thing is for sure, they’d have a real go at each other and could you imagine them against Millwall?
I live in london for over 25years and the problem with rangers joining the english game is pure fright by the so called big clubs just and i say again just incase we might just give them all the biggest shock of their lifes,now we cant do that can we
The Rangers situation should really be a warning to all football fans of what can happen with a mis-managed football club even if the demise of others such as Leeds, Wimbledon and Portsmouth wasn’t. Even the great Barcalona got into trouble and were not able to pay their players. It can happen to anyone and it shouldn’t be a shock that s club in the Premir league is likely to be soon.
@elkieno I am sorry but you really sound like a really bitter person. You are all one sighted. As a Rangers fan I have a very open mind and personally don’t like all this tit for tat posting, but pot and kettle come to mind after reading some of your posts. Lets talk about Dundee where the celtic fans where so well behaved, or maybe you want to talk about the Glasgow cup final last year where celtic fans where setting fire to seats at Ibrox. Nah I know your only one sided so you will want to talk about Manchester.
You are one of these people, that can not let go of the past to earn a future
Agree with you there Stuart. I’m certain that it will happen to others. The situation with Rangers is a wee bit different mind you. Had the HMRC case (known as the Big tax Case) not dragged on and on, and had Lloyds (allegedly) not been pushing Murray, the then Rangers owner, into selling, there would have been much bigger interest in buying the club and I’m fairly certain that the charlatan Whyte would not have got hold of the reigns. Our debt had come down from 34 million quid to 18 million quid – something that was eminently manageable to a club of Rangers size. There was certainly no need to hit the panic button. The added complication in this was the ongoing HMRC against us, in which (if you listen to the multitude of tax experts on every website in Scotland that mentioned Rangers) we could owe HMRC anything up to 134 million quid – and they’d even put things like “FACT” in there to prove that it had to be so.
There’s always talk about us “cheating” but (unless I’ve missed something somewhere), there was a panel of 3 judges who found to the contrary – and that our EBTs had been administered legally (although that doesn’t seem to have deterred elkieno from saying we were caught cheating).
What every Rangers fan will accept is that Craig Whyte screwed us, and he did so in biblical proportions by not paying any tax once he took over the club. That is the sole reason why we are currently plying our trade in the nether regions of the Scottish 3rd Division.
HMRC seemed to want Rangers as a scalp to come after some of the bigger boys in England. That is probably what the English clubs should be more worried about. I suspect that their appeal is for that self-same reason, seeing as it’s been acknowledged that they wouldn’t get a penny out of Rangers if they did find them guilty. I guess that the good thing from an Arsenal perspective is that they don’t play in the stupid realms of Abramovich etc. When the multi-millionaires get bored of their football team playthings, anything can and probably will happen. I wish they’d just stick to their private jets – it would keep things much simpler!
Elkieno- History will inform us of the bigoted element of the Celtic support ! Check out the Green Brigade and recent publicity regarding a certain employee of the Glasgow East End club ! Look up the meaning of bigot and learn something!Do not misconstrue this as a defence of some parts of the Rangers support – it is not ! Recognise the truth and become a more tolerant person !Not guilty is the verdict on cheating by the way !The law of the land and all that !
Roonknock and others should read the tax trbunal decision.
It was accepted that payments were made in some cases “off the record” i.e. the football authorities were not told of these payments. This is against the rules and the Oldco were clearly cheating.
Only the stripping of titles will make this sink in to the brais of the self-deluded.
Make no mistake this club is poisonous,as the good people of Manchester know. a support to matcn.
Roonknock and others should read the tax trbunal decision.
It was accepted that payments were made in some cases “off the record” i.e. the football authorities were not told of these payments. This is against the rules and the Oldco were clearly cheating.
Only the stripping of titles will make this sink in to the brais of the self-deluded.
Make no mistake this club is poisonous,as the good people of Manchester know. a support to matcn.
Since we are on things Scottish ,have a laugh .
SCOTTISH DRINKING SONG
Scottish or not… have a listen
SONG
Opps . Hope this works
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=MZ35SOU9HTM
Patrick- They said over and over again Rangers would be done for cheating the tax man. They were wrong, the Rangers Tax Case blog in particular . Have you even heard of it ? REMOVED from that Celtic/Republican website in case of prosecution by Strathclyde Police . YOU look as if you are one of the despicable,pathetic little creatures craving some kind of recognition but lacking in conscience and morality ! WATP NOT GUILTY !
Welsh Humour
Description:
Frank was at the bar the other night and heard three girls with an overabundance of flesh, talking at the bar.
Their accent appeared to be Scottish, so he approached and asked, “Hello, are you three lassies from Scotland?”
One of them screeched, “It’s WALES, you bloody idiot!”
So he apologized and replied,
“I am so sorry. Are you three whales from Scotland?”
And…that’s the last thing he remembered….
Roonknock
go and try to find someone to read the tribunal decision to you.
If there is something in it you don’t understand come back on and I’ll explain it to you.
54 and subtracting.
Prepared to wait on all the legal implications concerning The Rangers ! What was the FTTT decision? Of course,the decision went against the group including Rangers,did it? Where can you find The Orwell Prize winning Rangers Tax Case blog? Murray`s lawyers know the names of the people who leaked confidential information from HMRC.Unfinished business!Good to see Celtic minded people still intrigued and obsessed by the story mind you! Keep it up!
This is an extract from the Tribunal decision:-
It was conceded that advances in favour of certain players are taxable and liable to NIC, and
we have found that in certain other limited instances, there may be a similar liability.
What bit don’t you understand?
The Tribunal ruled in Rangers favour. “They said over and over Rangers would be done for cheating the tax man.” “A Government conspiracy.” “Their determination to have titles stripped will go into overdrive.” “Incoherent imbeciles.” Over 60 League Titles and multiplying! Check out the wall of The Louden Tavern,near Duke Street Station,Glasgow!You could maybe strip a few of these historical plaques off that particular wall! QCs ruled in Rangers favour!Rangers, then run by the Murray Group, won the Big Tax Case! John Hartson even thinks your quest is nonsensical!Time will tell ! Thanks for yours !
More Scottish humour .
An Arab Sheik was admitted to Hospital for heart surgery, but prior to the surgery, the doctors needed to store his type of blood in case the need arose.
As the gentleman had a very rare type of blood, it couldn’t be found locally, so the call went out.
Finally, a Scotsman was located who had the same blood type.
The Scot willingly donated his blood for the Arab.
The Arab sent the Scotsman, as appreciation for giving his blood, a new BMW, diamonds & $100,000, happy that his surgery could now go ahead.
A couple of months later, once again, the Arab had to go through a corrective surgery.
His doctor telephoned the Scotsman who was more than happy to donate his blood again.
After the second surgery, the Arab sent the Scotsman a thank-you card and a box of Quality Street chocolates.
The Scotsman was shocked that the Arab did not reciprocate his previous kind gesture as he had anticipated.
He phoned the Arab and asked him: “I thought you would be generous again, that you would give me a BMW, diamonds & money,
but you only gave me a thank-you card and a box of Quality Street.”
To this the Arab replied: “Aye, laddie, but I now have Scottish blood in ma veins.”
Last day of February!54 and subtracting! I think not!Time has indeed told ! The Commission has ruled ! 5 titles stripped from The Rangers in your nightmares ! Patience is a virtue !GSOQ