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560 days…a world record unseen and previously unimagined

By Walter Broeckx

I don’t know when I first started writing about referees on Untold Arsenal. I remember trying to write a few educational articles about some decisions and about the rules. And also add the perspective on why a ref could make mistakes.  But then came the questions from oh so many readers about decisions going against Arsenal and asking me to explain them.

I did this and then the questions came to review entire each Arsenal game and the decisions, right or wrong. And then you asked me to go even further and review each decision. And so I did and then I got some help from a few other referees. And then it all came to the referee decisions website which is back online by the way after having some technical problems. We are publishing reviews each day of the week and even on weekends and on bank holidays.

All this time I have tried to educate people and explain the rules. And all the time I have tried to point at strange things. I think after all those years it looks that my hard work has been worth the trouble.  I have spent hours and hours on doing this and had to face criticism (as a ref I am used to this) but I also got a few rounds of applause. Mostly from our regular readers who appreciated the work we did.

But also people contacted me behind the scenes and appreciated what we did and were very supportive. They didn’t agree with all we did and wrote about what they didn’t like, but that is the great thing about free speech. But still they patted us on the back on more than one occasion.

All the time I wanted to raise the awareness of the strange things we found. And I think I and my fellow referee reviewers did just that. Last week when the appointments were made we had a few people over here predicting what might happen in the game between Manchester United and Chelsea. Referee would be Howard Webb.

And people pointed at the fact that United didn’t have a player sent off not only this season but also since the 1-6 defeat against City.  And the fact that United didn’t concede a penalty all season.   And people wrote that we might see it happening in this game with the title being wrapped up for United. And especially with Howard Webb as the ref.

People suggested that this would be the perfect way to try to put a few “well known facts” to bed. The fact that Webb was very much in favour of United in most of his games with some strange decisions in their favour. So the talk of Webb being a United boy could be brushed under the carpet and the United faithful could point at Webb giving decisions against United.

And so it happened. Now I must admit I didn’t see the game at all except for the last 10 minutes. I did see the sending off. And it was a foul I have seen United players do on many occasions and sometimes without even getting called a foul against them.  But this time Webb did call it. In an attempt to try to save his own face a bit. I only have to point at the ridiculous decision a few seasons ago when Ferdinand ripped the shirt and the chest of Sagna to pieces with his studs at chest height and Webb then even didn’t call a foul, let alone produce the red card.

So Mr. Webb you can forget that we will now forget all those missed red card against United players because you sent one man off now. You may hope we will forget but rest assured we are not that dumb.

But now you have ended a run that started to become a bit embarrassing for United. Nowhere in history can you find a similar long run of one team (and one team only) to never having a player sent off during a period of 560 days. Well not in the PL . Or only in the PL. Because in European competitions the saints of Manchester United weren’t that “saintish”. No they had red cards given in Europe. But not in the PL.

And in fact this adds to my articles about calciopoli in the PL. The part that talked about the referees knowing not to take decisions against the leading team in the PL. But with other people apart from Untold starting to talk about that unusual long no-red card run and started asking questions the time was right to make an end to it. And no better way to end it but to send Fergies rent boy as Webb is usually called by opposition fans and give him the honour of doing it. Maybe even Silva was instructed to look for a red card and do something stupid. After all he is the player that I think deserved the most not given red cards in those 560 day run.

In a way it was a bit like our unbeaten run. We couldn’t lose a game until the current head of the PGMOL produced his farce of refereeing at Old Trafford.  Now it was an un-redcarded run that had to be stopped at Old Trafford.

So the attempt to end 3 “facts” in the PL in one game was a success. Just as ending our unbeaten run was successful.  These facts were:

  • No United player can be sent off,
  • No United player can be sent off at Old Trafford
  • Webb is a United ref.

A great attempt to end this common knowledge knowing to all non-United fans.

A great attempt but I think most of us can see through it. It will take a few more red cards against United players to convince us. And maybe a few penalties against United. But you know, Mike or Howard, not this season. You’ve done your job for this season. The real test will be next season.  Then we will see if United players get sent off in the same way as players from other teams. And we will see if United will get penalties given against them just like other teams, or most other teams.

Don’t think we will be that easily convinced.

6 May 1991: The game, the championship, the song

Recent posts

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The most detailed study of Premier League Refs ever:The referees 2013.

The books…

The sites from the same team…

127 comments to 560 days…a world record unseen and previously unimagined

  • avatar Matt Clarke

    Thanks Walter et al.

    At least there is a crumb of comfort in all this (for me) and that is: these errors, anomalies and inconsistencies in the refereeing of the EPL that you and your team have documented; they cannot have gone unnoticed by everyone else.

    It cannot be just Arsenal supporters who know.

    There must be MUFC fans who KNOW, even if they cannot admit it openly, that their titles are bought.

    Bought with the labours of bent officials – and therefore worthless.

    Better to be honest and beaten than a dishonourable first.

  • avatar nicky

    @Walter&Matt (and anyone else who comments),
    It’s all very well to show the malaise which permeates the referees in our national game. Those of us who watch and wonder don’t need convincing.
    What we want to know though, is what is being done to rid us of this canker.
    The more proof is presented without action, the more frustration will spread.

  • avatar GoonerDog

    Its funny the ‘red’ comes when United had the title sewn up. I wonder would he have seen red during the heat of battle during a meaningful match that United had to win? Would Webb have been so ‘brave’?

  • avatar Marcus

    Excellent piece Walter. The “discrepencies” become chasms of Enronesque proportions.

    I saw there was a piece on RT (I think) the other day about how German clubs are owned by the fans…something I have been championing for while. Until that day AFC fans, and all fans, are just stooges at the party.

    Even MOTD (Manufactured oblique tendentious discourses) noticed that Sian Massey the lineswoman called Rafael’s challenge as a yellow…

    At the start of the season I was thinking of supporting AFC ladies. Watching women’s football is infinitely more satisfying, because the women have a tendency to pick the right ball to complete a move, whereas the men’s game is very ugly, as they invariably miss the simple killer ball at the end of a move, often opting to blaze high and wide from a stupid angle.

    The German game also interests me more than the English game. Thomas Mueller is some player.

  • avatar Brickfields Gunners

    This season was well planned and plotted out ,so as not to have a repeat of last season’s final day final seconds ‘upset’ .
    Once the trophy was won , some ‘corrections’
    were allowed as noted above by Walter to absolve the usual culprits .
    We may see some more draws or losses to show that it was in fact a ‘close’ finish .We will be told/reminded that the EPL is the best league and in no way like the WWE !
    And do not forget to resubscribe to you cable operator for next saeson !

  • avatar Brickfields Gunners

    And Walter et al , do keep up the good work.

  • avatar Sav from Australia

    A timely article, Walter. Well said!

  • avatar chibyke

    funny a respected nigerian football analyst stated that it is only the most foolish of fans that will heap thier team failures on refereeing decisions.
    this was during an argument that webb is a manu ref. i will promptly refer him to this site though i dont think he will bother visiting the site or reading the article.great post

  • avatar @babakrdaemi

    Excellent stuff again.

    How often do you contact the PGMOL with your results? How often do you send this to national press. For all the faults of the red tops they love a scandal.

    If they can get behind it or read it who knows what might happen?

    COME ON THE GUNNERS

  • avatar Mandy Dodd

    The PGMOL have truly become an embarassment to themselves. A mixture of supporters of a certain club and others either career orientated, or terrified of upsetting Fergie/Riley. And that is the best case I at least can make for them.
    RVP alone should have had at least 3 reds this season, then there is Rooney, their central defenders who constantly pull at shirts, sometimes taking the player down in the area. But nothing ever happens to Rio or Vidic.
    How much longer can this go on? Have they started going too far, or are they beyond caring?

  • avatar AL

    Another incisive piece Walter. The sad thing is the mainstream media, who every joe bloggs relies on for info, should be bringing such clear favoritism to light, but instead they’re busy tripping over themselves to be the first to pay tribute to old bacon face’s unprecedented “success”. I do watch a lot of Spanish and German football but nowhere do you get this kind of comical refereeing. Even in Italy, where matches have been perennially fixed, the media there have exposed these things and people have been brought to book. Will we ever see that here? No chance.

    There’s a general tendency of everyone wanting to agree with everyone(not sure why)that we tend to see here too often; you see it with the media all behaving as one, or the refs all ganging up to support each other when they’ve clearly messed up, the so-called football pundits on TV making fools of themselves(with the exception of Roy Keane), the other managers all sucking up to red nose(except a few foreign ones). We need brave people.

  • avatar bob

    “There must be MUFC fans who KNOW”
    Matt Clarke,
    They know and some combination of don’t/won’t/can’t say; and/or are so blinkered by normalized brainwashing (aka Fergie’s their superior entitlement) that they can’t see what they see. It’s karmic. It’s the way people can go to World Wrestling Foundation, knowing it’s all pantomime at best, and still going hog-wild about the (predetermined) outcome.

    The training for their current (at least decade long) mindset started in two places. First at the crime scene at OT where the miscreant-ref, Micky R, derailed our undefeated run, and they all screamed like banshees and fergie jigged as if it were all real and pure instead of the fix that it was. A truly remarkable exercise in a fascist crowd mentality, their knowing mass delusion. If there is a MU fan out their who knows this was a fix, then please say so. It is the bad seed, that event, on so many levels, in and beyond a football pitch. It is akin to a nuremburg rally, their mass delusional victory trance. This said, the second place where the seeds for this mindset was Nuremburg. The behavior at OT is a case study in crowd behavior that ought to be taught across the green and pleasant land as an example in how mass delusion can operate, take root, and be normalized.

    And the media maintains and daily renews the spell of ManUre’s vast superiority gap by perfuming their performances with collective silence. And when the red card is finally given – the card that “proves” they have not been unfairly uncarded all along – it is somehow celebrated. A collective sigh of relief goes up from the lenscrafters and stenographers because they can now hold it up as the necessary figleaf and say to the public, straightfaced, that this truly remarkable run has been, well, truly remarkable. It becomes another brick in the road to the Rednose XX, which they are all greasing up for, and greasing us up for, so they can pay the rent whilst others, already well-fattened beyond counting, can continue to stick it in (and I don’t only mean their cleated studs, but cloven hooves).

    nuremburg/OT – it’s the same dynamics: this media celebrated “natural superiority” (training and talent and nous) that is never carded red. The only red is at the tip of His nose. And its afterglow will soon be deemed a national treasure, as we watch our medicine (i.e., their success in bamboozlement).

    And we sell them RVP who, in vast measure, helps make this possible. Did he and Dein not KNOW what they were doing? What do you think. And we shouldn’t have booed this charade, right? Because Tradition (the fair play we claim to love, but which has already long been shredded) must be respected, first and foremost, right? Alright, then: but how about self-respect?

  • avatar bob

    AL,
    Couldn’t agree more. Well said!

  • avatar bob

    Mandy Dodd,
    yes, beyond caring and beyond shame. Those emotions are obstacles to self-aggrandisement. And for them, more can never be enough.

  • avatar jitty

    Original credit for this goes to Footballisfixed on 28 April

    It seems the actual record was 560+ days without a penalty OR a red! So it seems the penalty run still stands. Incredible.

    Since the statue of Sir Ferguson was unveiled and the stand named after the man, nothing has been given against the Reds – the last decision was the sending off of Jonny Evans in the 6-1 defeat to Manchester City on October 23rd 2011 – 554 days ago

  • avatar bob

    The real test will be next season.
    Walter,
    Sorry, but there were real tests this season, too: as in a test as to whether and how to recognize and express one’s ire at all this at the Ems. Fortunately, and to their credit, a goodly number of fans at the “victory lap dance” did boo. And that was the high road. Not the nonsense that refuses to rubber stamp this farce with pretend politeness and the show of how superior is our character by applauding politely as the bandits make off with their heist of our dignity and dosh. To boo or not to boo? The was the question. And it will remain a question should the same farce be repeated next season. What will you countenance then? Sing our little hearts out?

  • avatar bob

    sorry, should be “that was the question”

  • avatar bob

    sorry, got me grammar screwed up: Should be “that rubber stamps” (rather than ‘refuses to rubber stamp’)

  • avatar Jay sean

    Looking at the remaining fixtures Arsenal no longer have the easiest run in, with the exception of the QPR, We face teams that will throw the kitchen sink at us to get a result, and that’s not saying QPR won’t to go out on a high. I think 7 points out of those games would see us into 4th spot. Whether or not we get champions league football next year doesn’t exactly make the Summer any less or more comfortable being an Arsenal fan, if We qualify then the club won’t ring in top quality players, if We fail then the club will just use the excuse of ‘top players didn’t wan’t to join a club with no champions league football’…….It’s always going to be a no win situation until Kronke is no longer pulling the strings, Jabba the hut and David Dein would be the best thing that could happen to the club, maybe even Wenger might enjoy spending money rather than nselling his best players.

  • avatar Adam

    We get Mike Dean for the Wigan game.

    I’m getting good at this.

  • avatar Adam

    Looks like Southampton are getting screwed as well.

  • avatar Matt Clarke

    bob,
    I agree and see what you are saying. I suppose that I was/am still hoping for a moment similar to the Emporer’s New Clothes where one young boy spoke the truth that the rest of the crowd refused to see until they were faced with it so openly.

  • avatar BILL FROM MANHATTAN

    THERE IS A ADAGE THAT GOES “DON’T PISS DOWN MY BACK AND TELL ME NOT TO WORRY, IT’S ONLY THE RAIN”. A BLIND PERSON CAN SEE WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE E.P.L. ANY MAN.U.FAN OR NEUTRAL THAT SAYS THEY CAN SEE NO WRONG DOING IS A FOOL OR A MOTHER-F**KING LIAR OR BOTH. A RED CARD IN STOPPAGE TIME IN A MEANINGLESS GAME ISN’T GONNA FOOL NOBODY. THAT IS JUST THE LASTEST CHARADE IN THIS FARCE KNOWN AS THE E.P.L. EVEN WITH ALL THE EVIDENCE, PEOPLE DON’T WANNA FACE THE TRUTH. PEOPLE WILL SAY I SEE NOTHING, I KNOW NOTHING, JUST LIKE THAT FAT ARSED SERGEANT ON THE AMERICAN SITCOM HOGAN’S HEROES. THAT IS THE SAME BULLSHITE THE MAJORITY OF THE GERMAN POPULATION SAID ABOUT THE DEATH CAMPS. THEY TURNED A BLIND EYE WHILE THEIR JEWISH NEIGHBORS WERE BEING TAKEN AWAY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT. JUST BECAUSE YOU SAY IT CAN’T HAPPEN HERE, OUR LEAGUE IS CLEAN, WE INVENTED THE GAME. THAT DON’T MAKE IT SO. IT IS GONNA COME OUT AND WHEN IT DOES, THE SHITE IS GONNA HIT THE FAN. IT WILL STICK TO A LOT OF PEOPLE. WHAT ARE ALL THE IDIOTS GONNA SAY WHEN IT COMES TO FRUITION. DUH, I KNEW NOTHING, I SAW NOTHING. SOME THINGS ARE JUST TO BIG TO COVER UP FOREVER. SMARTER PEOPLE THAN THOSE BLIND MORONS WHO RUN THE F.A HAVE TRIED AND THEY ALL FAILED. SUNLIGHT IS THE BEST DISINFECTANT. UP THE ARSENAL.

  • avatar Andre

    DEAN controls our destiny…he is appointed for tmrws clash as well as for us nxt week vs Wigan…Unbelievable!!!

  • avatar Mahdain

    Mike Dean vs wigan. Only one winner in that one. Shame on you Riley you are pathetic

  • avatar GoonerPete

    Have we really got Mike Dean for the Wigan game?

    If that’s the case then bye bye top 4 I’m afraid :-(

    Just think if that little rat bastard Ramieres didn’t
    a) foul Coquelin in the build up to the 1st goal
    b) didn’t dive to win a pen for goal no. 2
    in the game at Stamford Bridge we’d be a fair bit better off.

    Now we’ve got to hope that Chelsea beat Spurs and we navigate our final 2 fixtures, the wigan game against practically 12 men to just squeek in the top 4.

  • avatar Mandy Dodd

    Unbelievable dean is from that area and hates us why is Ivan not doing something here? The home crowd need to highlight his every cheating move. He is also doing Chelsea spuds I hear are the spuds Riley’s second team?

  • avatar Adam

    Tottenham 1 – 1 West Brom Mike Dean J Collin J Brooks
    Southampton 2 – 3 Man Utd Mike Dean J Collin J Brooks
    Man City 1 – 1 Arsenal Mike Dean J Collin J Brooks
    Swansea 2 – 2 Reading Mike Dean J Collin J Brooks
    Newcastle 0 – 1 West Ham Mike Dean J Collin J Brooks
    QPR 1 – 3 Southampton Mike Dean J Collin J Brooks
    Man City 1 – 0 Reading Mike Dean J Collin J Brooks
    Man Utd 4 – 3 Newcastle Mike Dean J Collin J Brooks
    Aston Villa 0 – 1 Man C Mike Dean J Collin J Brooks
    Norwich 2 – 1 Reading Mike Dean J Collin J Brooks
    Chelsea v Tottenham Mike Dean J Collin J Brooks
    Arsenal v Wigan Mike Dean J Collin J Brooks

    Amazing how often these boys work together, and also how they get two very important matches, with so much at stake?

    You could almost imagine, there was an agenda?

  • avatar Mahdain

    I dont think we’ll get anything in that match. Lets just spuds lose vs chelsea and they draw both their matches or its byebye top 4 im afraid. To top things off i am predicting they’ll send us Probert for the newcastle match

  • avatar AL

    Adam
    We knew something was very wrong, but this is taking things to a new level; the next 3 games that dean is reffing involve teams that are either fighting for 4th spot or are in the relegation battle. One man is going to decide who plays champions league or championship football next season. How can that be allowed?????

  • avatar Adam

    The above is this season only

  • avatar Adam

    AL, your not suggesting these things are planned? are you?

    I will have to have a look through the comments but I think some of us called this about a month ago. Maybe longer.

  • avatar Mahdain

    @Adam yep we all predicted this long ago

  • avatar AL

    Adam
    OMG, that is an incriminating pattern you expose in your post at 5:10pm. And one of those assistant refs told Man City players to go and applaud their fans for shelling £62 at the Ems right? This stinks. It has fix written all over it. Bye bye 4th spot, we may as well not bother to turn up.

  • avatar Adam

    I think I’m going to give myself another project and find out how often those 3 have worked together over the years.

    I’m off to my allotment, back later.

  • avatar AL

    Guys, excuse me but I’m just recovering from the shock of it all. I know you predicted this many moons ago but the scale of it all just hit me like a ton of bricks. I mean I always knew Dean screws us every time we have him, but hadn’t taken much notice of who his assistant refs were! And just from looking at the pattern above and the matches he’s involved in this month alone even a blind man can see something is very wrong here

    Just out of curiosity, is dean ever made a 4th official?

  • avatar Mahdain

    @Al i dont seem to remember Dean as 4th official though im probably wrong. You know the worst thing is its not just Dean but him and wigan and thats a match made in heaven. Wigan overperform big time with Dean while for us its the opposite. Fix written all over it.
    @Adam amazing findings.. Those 3 must be PGMOL’s special agents whenever they need a dirty job to be done. Utterly pathetic.

  • avatar Sam

    Dean did a fair job in the Chelsea – Wigan match a while back if I remember the ref review correctly, maybe he will give Arsenal a fair game.

    But they should go out and beat the piss outta Wigan, just in case Dean tries something.

  • avatar WalterBroeckx

    http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/27847

    Just check the table from this and look at Arsenal and Wigan.
    And then read my last paragraph… And do you smell that terrible sewer perfume? I do…

  • avatar WalterBroeckx

    Well there is one good news: we will not get Probert for the game at Newcastle as he does them at QPR.

  • avatar WalterBroeckx

    Sam,
    When Dean is on the field Arsenal doesn’t get a fair game. Arsenal know it and that alone is enough to tilt the pitch.

  • avatar WalterBroeckx

    I also expect a Tottenham win tomorrow. He will do all he can to put us out of the CL. And Chelsea losing is the worst case scenario for Arsenal.

    Well we predicted that Riley was holding Dean in his sleeves and then come up with him as the trump card at the last moment.

  • avatar Andrew Crawshaw

    Entirely predictable a b……s red card in a Manure game when they couldn’t even be bothered to try followed by Dean and posse in a game v Wigan. Oh well have to make money, penalty against Arsenal, red card to Arsenal player, clear penalty to Arsenal denied and a win for Wigan. If enough of us place those bets, with a bit of luck, it will show up as suspicious and be investigated.

    Riley you are a !!!!

  • avatar Mandy Dodd

    Oh well we all know there is a calciopolli now. We should have enough to beat Wigan even with dean and the home fans will hopefully sense things not right and respond accordingly as will the team when dean tried to engineer a spud win on our ground last season. If he helps the spuds to win at Chelsea the latter still have tricky games and could still drop points.

  • avatar Stuart

    Everyone who likes a bet, should place a bet on Arsenal receiving a red card in the Wigan game.

  • avatar WalterBroeckx

    My bet is we get Friend at Newcastle http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/27810

    If that would happen what more evidence do we need to be certain of caliopoli in the PL. Dean for the Wigan game itself should be enough of course…

  • avatar Sam

    Walter, I completely agree that Dean will not in any way help Arsenal, and will probably hurt us next week with Wigan coming to the Ems.

    With that said, Dean is not very pro-Chelsea, and clearly from your reviews is very good for Wigan, but when those 2 teams played he was not just fair, his bias favored Chelsea and they won the game – so Arsenal (and the fans) need to still believe we can go out and destroy Wigan (and we can; if we play our best it won’t matter what Dean does, truly), rather than start admitting that we will get screwed (defeat).

  • avatar Adam

    Sam, Chelsea’s win rate under Dean is around the 68% mark, that’s annual league winners form.

  • avatar Adam

    If we beat Wigan, we’ll get Friend at St James’s, if we lose or draw with Wigan we’ll get Anthony Taylor. That’s my punt.

  • avatar WalterBroeckx

    Riley kept the “best” for last. ;)

    It will take a 5-2 performance to beat Dean. And Wigan. In that order.

  • avatar Mahdain

    if i was a betting person i would put a lot of money on Arsenal losing that match with a sending off.. Thats literally free money
    @sam it doesnt what record Dean has with the opposition when he referees our matches. QPR has a pathetic record under him but they still won against us last season. Make no mistake about it we aint getting anything in the wigan match

  • avatar AL

    Wigan will be very pphysical in their game with us, and they will not get punished. They’re trying all they can to keep Wigan in the premiership. Like Adam said, it most likely will be at the expense of Southampton. Or perhaps Norwich? After all, the majority of these refs are from the north west, and would sure like to see only southern clubs get relegated this season.

  • avatar Sam

    Good points from everyone, definitely has given me something to think about, but I’m still slightly surprised that a few people have announced that they are expecting nothing from this match. @Mahdain I totally see your point about QPR last year, but we also had a Man U game with Dean that we tied. Again, I’m obviously not trying to debate plainly visible evidence and statistics; I’m saying that if you are a real Arsenal fan you need to believe we can win every game, no matter what. Not saying that you have to be willing to bet your life on it, or even think it is the most likely outcome, but if every fan goes into the Ems thinking ‘make no mistake about it we aint getting anything in this match’ then I can guarantee you precisely that outcome is more likely to happen then if you go in believing that The Arsenal will triumph no matter what.

  • avatar Andrew Crawshaw

    I wouldn’t be unduly surprised if we have Szcz sent off. Our defence will have to be squeaky clean. Hopefully we will have enough to beat the Wigan 15 but the odds have certainly been stacked.

  • avatar Sam

    @Adam – you are right; but we have to look at the % increase under Dean. Wigan increase their win% with him by a larger margin than Chelsea thus, he is better for Wigan than Chelsea.

  • avatar Adam

    Sam, not when they play each other the last time Chelsea walloped them 4-1.

  • avatar rantetta

    “Even though I don’t gamble I’m seriously considering to take a bet on those games if they would happen.”
    Yes, Walter, that’s my position, too. What sort of odds might one get for a Totts win followed by a Wigan win? And never mind Penalty for Wigan and sure fire penalty not given to us – how about betting on a broken leg?, for an Arsenal player of course. After all, Mc Manaman tried to rip off a (black) player’s shin/knee, and I’m entitled to think that not punishing the perpetrator was to make sure he’d be available to help keep Wigan up, but particularly, to do whatever kind of damage to The Arsenal.

    How did a committee not punish that, yet turn down Giroud’s appeal from the Fulham match? (Yes, I know Giroud’s appeal was chaired by ManU’s club secretary. Any coincidence?)

    AL @ 1:27 & Bob @ 1:54 – Spot on. Beautifully articulated.
    Sam & Adam, good points.

    It seems to me that Dean’s OK with Chelsea and West Ham, loves Totts, but most of all HATES The Arsenal. Betting or not, we must try to all send good vibes to Arsenal.

  • avatar Adam

    Wigan are beating Swansea 1-0 half time.

  • avatar Sam

    Yes, that is my point; the fact that Wigan do better under Dean than Chelsea, relative to each teams average win % with other refs, does not change the outcome when they play eachother because Chelsea are far and away the better side. Why can it not be the case that Arsenal simply beat Wigan is my question? Why are so many Arsenal ‘supporters’ already starting to question whether the team can get it done b/c of the referee? Do you have more faith in the team, or in Mike Dean to get the job done. I put more confidence in the team. If Dean has a chance to screw us with a late penalty I am sure he will take it, but we should win this game by 3, and I believe we will do it.

  • avatar Adam

    Sam, I’m not sure if your aware of Deans history with Arsenal.

    We have only won once or twice under him in the last 18 or 20 games. That’s relegation material.

    Swansea equalise.

  • avatar Mahdain

    @Sam thing is whenever i see Dean refereeing our matches i always believe there is no way are we getting 3 points and i have been proved right. Its not that i dont want us to win with him incharge, its just that Dean has proved time and time again that he is a grade A prick who will never give us a fair game. As Walter said it will take another 5-2 perfomance to beat him. Maybe he should dance again to rile up our players

  • avatar Adam

    I think I understand what your getting at sam. But if you look at Wigans win rate under Dean, they should be pushing for European football.

    Wigan 2 Swansea 1

  • avatar Adam

    I’m watching the game tonight, and it is surprising that Wigan are fighting relegation, they can play ball those boys, but so can the Swans.

    Something I forgot and that’s Wigan have the FA cup final 3 days before turning up at the Em’s.

  • avatar WalterBroeckx

    No Wigan would be playing for CL football if they got Dean each game

  • avatar Shard

    Dean, or anyone.. It doesn’t matter. Arsenal must win, and we will. NO ONE gets in our way. That was my attitude when we played the Spuds last season, and that’s the only game in recent history that we won with Dean in charge.. Pity I won’t be there to cheer on the team, but hopefully the fans in the stadium will back the Arsenal to get the result we need.

    I am more worried about it not being in our hands though. Hopefully Rafa Benitez (who I like because he tried to expose the corruption in the league) will manage to get his team up and motivated to win against Spurs. If they are, they have more quality than Spurs, so Chelsea should win.

  • avatar Shard

    By the way..Has Dean been confirmed for Wigan?

  • avatar Adam

    Shard.

    Chelsea v Tottenham Mike Dean J Collin J Brooks
    Sunderland v Southampton Mike Dean J Collin J Brooks
    Arsenal v Wigan Mike Dean J Collin J Brooks

  • avatar Shard

    Dean is in charge of the Spurs Chelsea game as well??? Holy fuck!! Now I’m starting to worry about our top 4 hopes.. This is getting ridiculous! Mother******g B******s!!!

    We HAVE to win.. We can’t become victims of this fix.. We just can’t.. We’ll beat Wigan.. I am confident of that.. But as I said, I’m worried about it not being in our hands.

  • avatar Adam

    Oops, now I know how Wigan are relegation material. Shocking defending. 2-3 Swans

  • avatar goonerpete

    I see someone mentioned it (Rafa’s ‘rant’), so enjoy!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOaZYhTd2BU

    Well worth a re-watch for nostalgias sake.

    Rafa should really be lauded be a hero!

  • avatar Stroller

    I don’t know if anybody noticed but Dean was the ‘refs assistant behind the goal line’ (if that’s what they are called) for the Real Madrid v Borussia Dortmund game last week. Webb was the ref. Throughout the game, Ramos (Real) thrust his arm/elbow into the back of Lewandowski’s (Borussia) head at every aerial challenge. Several times Lewandowski was floored and a couple of times the game was stopped for him, but no action taken against Ramos.

    Webb and Dean officiating in the same game! Referring hell.

  • avatar Mandy Dodd

    Keep the faith, our players can overcome Wigan, and they can overcome dean this time. Our home fans have to call dean on everything, like they have done with dowd recently.
    Wigan are virtually down, will dean do what Webb did at the weekend to save reputations and see off allegations?

  • avatar rantetta

    Yes, Stroller. I saw that. Before the match, having seen the refs, I thought it was set up for an RM comeback, what with Murhino saying how upset he was that his defenders hadn’t tackled BD’s player’s in the first leg.

    Then the game! What was going on?

    Trouble is, BD are so like Arsenal, except their fans aren’t affected by – richest man in the country trying to take over the club, and Buying meedja/plastics in order to de-stabilise the supporters love of the existing set-up. BD also don’t spend vast amounts, try to bring through the youts, and get their best players poached.

    I was very impressed with the BD support at the Em’s, which I attended. The noise they made was terrific, even after the goal scored by Arsenal following Song-aldhino’s mazy run and cross, for *** to score with his head.

    And yes, Mandy, we need to keep the faith.

  • avatar Mandy Dodd

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/may/07/sir-alex-ferguson-manchester-united

    Is there really something going on here? Does this explain the complete,subservience of,the PGMOL this year……or is this just unfounded media bollox?

  • avatar bob

    Fans, bring your red cards, and when The Dean pulls his cunning stuntery (or, well, you know… stunning #$%!ery), then it’s time for 50,000 red cards to come out and reign holy hellfire on his goosestepping parade. Enough is now enough. Signs should show up displaying his record number of appearances against us. Let it all be held in abeyance until he does his predictable number, then be waved for all of football to see. This man must be exposed for the fixer he is. This is his audition for Micky R’s successor and we should be clear on this point. It matters that we show self-respect, not polite applause or tsk-tsking into our stale pints.

  • avatar bob

    p.s. and self-respect is showing him our red cards.

  • avatar bob

    goonerpete, ketley(?)
    Rafa Rocks. Whatever else he may have done or now, this man deserves a statue for courage at every pitch. He is right: as he says it: “this is not my opinion. i’ve been here for five years. and these are facts.”

  • avatar bob

    Mandy Dodd,
    And did RVP/Dein correctly read the (obvious, imo) tea leaves that, after last season’s last minute denial, this season would leave no stone unturned to ensure that the ring would be returned to old Sewer-ron. (RVP being the Golem (Smeagle) in lust for the precious ring….surely someone can design an avatar with RVP’s howling inner child’s face on the Golem’s body slobbering for the precious.)

  • avatar Mahdain

    I wonder maybe Riley wants to use the match against Wigan as a Dean’s white wash? You know to put to an end to
    1. Dean is anti Arsenal
    2. He doesnt give Arsenal penalties
    I cant actually see Dean giving us a penalty not if he has his way. So maybe Riley will convince him to ref it fair and instruct the meedja to write that Arsenal fans are paranoid and Dean is not against them. Too bad for them none of us will be fooled

  • avatar GoonerPete

    @Bob, Who’s Ketley?

    Great news, re. Fergie this morning!

    Maybe… just maybe the league will become a fairer place

  • avatar Mandy Dodd

    Wish you were right goonerpete about the leagues fairness, but unfortunately the biggest cheat of all is about to rejoin . The will the pgmol now become joses bitches? Or maybe they will throw their weight behind one of their old favourites like pulis. But fergie will be impressed with the send off the refs gave him in his final year, except for the ref in the Real Madrid game who for whatever reason did not read the script.

  • avatar Shard

    So having ‘won’ ManU’s 20th title, he walks away into the sunset..As I think bob and I had discussed nearly 2 years ago.

    But those of you who are looking at a change in the levels of fairness in the league, in my view, are bound to be disappointed. Although Ferguson might have had influence over some, his real power stemmed from his office, not his person. He’s despite all his doings, relatively small fry when it come to the level of money and corruption we are talking about. They might take a break from favouring ManU outright for a year or two, so as to restore the restoration and make it a competitive league, so as to fend of the challenge of the German Bundesliga. But ManU are worth too much to the league and Sky, and their brand value will never be allowed to plummet. This doesn’t end with Ferguson.

  • avatar Shard

    Apologies for errors..Short of time!

  • avatar Mahdain

    Lo and behold Don Fergus coronation day as lord football has finally come. I wonder will Riley and PGMOL join the ceremony or will there be a private ceremony where Fergie gets to thank all of his servants in person?

  • avatar Mahdain

    @Shard and Mandy agreed this doesnt end with Fergie. There are people in higher places involved including one Rupert Murdoch and besides i think Fergie will stay on as board member and hence still exert his influence

  • avatar Tasos

    So finally Ferguson retires, but not before Utd’s 20th title.

    No wonder the all out assault from the refs this season. No Red card (not until after the league was won) and still no penalty conceded all season.

    Who next?

    David Moyes has long pinned his hopes on this job and for My money he fits the bill. To quote after the recent Arsenal V Everton match… “Do you mean when we were a little bit rough with the tackling?” he said. “Up north we do that quite often. That’s actually allowed in football. We weren’t going to come here and let Arsenal stroke the ball around and make 600 passes”.

    I wonder if Moyes new Ferguson was attending that match?

  • avatar AL

    I think it would very naive of anyone to actually think we are suddenly going to see a more fair PL after the retirement of the senile one. Like Shard said, the influence that comes from that office is just too much to go with one man. Besides, I think he will just move upstairs where he will still be dictating to the FA/PGMOL what to do. The worst case can be if they recruit a certain manager who claimed to want to go where feels loved. A cheating manager at OT is nightmare come true.

    The only immediate positive I can see coming out of this retirement is the cessation of fawning & kowtowing by the media to one person.

  • avatar Mandy Dodd

    Word reaches me that all EPL teams in their next games will pay a touching tribute to the great man….three minutes of extra injury time from nowhere will be added on in all games.

    This means in 11 days time, Wenger will, in terms of managers be the elder statesman in this league, and by some distance. I am sure he will receive the due respect from all that such a lofty position enables him………..

  • avatar bjtgooner

    The retirement of the Red Nosed horse trader is welcome news. Hopefully this is the first step in the break up of the behind the scene mafia style corruption which has influenced football for far too long.

    It may take a while to become public, but no doubt eventually the full story will come out. Too many people are involved for the truth to remain hidden for ever – just as with the scumbag Saville – a lot of people kept quiet for far too long, but eventually the truth leaked out.

  • avatar Adam

    Maybe Ferguson is getting out now, as he knows Arsene is coming to get him.

    Look at the sh*t team he just won the premiership with, wow.

    Anyone think Rafa stands a chance at the Old Trafford hot seat?

  • avatar Mandy Dodd

    The Interim One- you may laugh, but actually for his managerial qualities alone may not be the worst choice!
    A good manager, strong personality who can deal with pressure – and still lives in the North West!
    My money is on Mike Riley.

  • avatar Tasos

    Moyes is already 1-6 to get the job with some bookmakers.

    I’m sure Ferguson would approve of a fellow Scotsman taking up his mantle.

  • avatar Adam

    Maybe Arsenal leaking their commercial deals had something to do with Manchester United announcing Ferguson’s retirement, as their shares are taking a battering. So their profit this year has already been wiped of off their share price.

    Happy Christmas all over again.

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/465810/20130508/sir-alex-ferguson-retirement-manchester-united-share.htm

    How much?

  • avatar A. Stewart

    Walter,

    Regarding the record run of no-reds/ no-penalties and how that affected this season.

    Perhaps in another post, you can detail a comprehensive list of (red-card, penalty warranting) incidents this season. I’d be curious to see exactly what the incidents are, how many were there, and the merits of each.

  • avatar bob

    Shard’s right: the chesire cat departs, but the smile remains. He can do plenty from on high, as Lord Football, this the former Don Fergus, to ensure (by intervention or string pulling) that it’s business as usual. What does anyone’s going behind the scenes have to do with a loss of power? Usually it’s the other way around. This way he can use the phone to rant and rave and not raise questions like Rafa’s as to how can a coach/manager rant and rave in the faces of referees and never, not ever get punished for it? Well, now he can rant and rave and be unseen as well as unaccountable. The idea that it’s puff is wishful thinking. The world’s his oyster, this national treasure of the green and pleasant land, this role model to the youth, this soon to be anointed Lord Football at the ongoing Rednose XX festivities and specials and exclusive interviews and documentary specials and guest appearances on the Telly and “unscripted” call ins to Talkshite, and so on and shooby dooo. Only a rising of the Treebeards and the Shire can deny the ring that Sauron has in his grip.

    Of course, amigos, the most interesting question for us might well be this: Was this departure hinted/mentioned in his August phone call with AW, as to giving him his last hurrah – via RVP – as he’ll be departing the scene and no longer a thorn in his side and there’ll be some extra consideration sometime down the road to AFC’s benefit…(I surely don’t know, but I would not bet the farm against it. I only wish I were the fly on that wall for that conversation.)

  • avatar bob

    “Maybe Arsenal leaking their commercial deals had something to do with Manchester United announcing Ferguson’s retirement, as their shares are taking a battering.”
    Adam,
    Could you clarify what you mean here? Who’s the “their” attached to the commercial deals that you refer to? How would the scenario you hint at work? I just need to know what you mean. Cheers.

  • avatar bob

    Mandy Dodd,
    Micky R as the new manager at OT, you’re saying? A sly return to the crime scene that he did so well to instigate, then clean up, and then clean up on, so to speak? Oh how I pray for this. If EPL are truly the World Wrestling Foundation, as I truly believe, this would be close to the ultimate. Perhaps Don Fungus could directly appoint Micky R to the post for all to grasp just who was in control all along. Not that it’s today’s news. Ah well, I probably misinterpreted your meaning here and using it as an excuse to dream out loud, in the interests of public education of course. :)

  • avatar Mandy Dodd

    Well Bob, few have done more for the cause than Manc Riley. Wonder if the other refs , the ones who don’t actually support Utd are breathing a sigh of relief, as there will be less pressure on them to embarrass themselves in future Utd games? Or will the Riley/scudamore entity remain the same?

  • avatar Adam

    Well Bob, I presume Arsenal knew that Sir Alex was jacking it in, so they gave him RVP as a leaving present, we actually gave him to Alex, but he made United give us £25 million as a parting gift.

    Anyway, Arsene knew of Alex’s retirement, as he has been out-maneuvered by younger feet wearing puma’s, the younger feet were aware of the shares crash once the lid was lifted, so as a parting f+ck you Sir Alex, we released how much we increased as they were going the other way.

    I even heard Arsene cry out to Sir Alex, “Mind how you grow, slur”.

    You know I’m on a wind-up, right.

  • avatar bob

    Adam,
    Yes, for sure. Good one!

  • avatar Adam

    1-0 Chelsea

  • avatar bob

    If Moyes (as the Guardian announces) stands in the wings to replace his Don at OT, does that clarify anything about pitch performances past in anyone’s mind?

  • avatar Sam

    2-1 Chelsea – not sure if I want a tie or a spurs loss.

  • avatar AL

    Sam,
    May be wrong but a tie means we need to win both remaining matches, whereas a chelsea win means a draw and a win will see us through.

  • avatar Adam

    Off-side goal makes it 2-2

  • avatar Sam

    AL, you’re right, i just wonder if it’d be better to have the opportunity that if we win out than either chelsea or spurs slipping up sees us safe. I’m not sure which I’d prefer, all I know is tott’ham better not get another goal…

  • avatar Mandy Dodd

    Back firmly in our hands

  • avatar Adam

    Mandy, beg to differ, still firmly in Dean’s hands.

  • avatar goonerpete

    Good game.

    Couldn’t see a lot wrong with the refereeing either, which was obviously a major surprise!

  • avatar AL

    Tie isnt all that bad, certainly better result than a spuds win. If the refs don’t intervene we should be ok for 4th.

  • avatar Adam

    Cracks me up, Dean’s at it again. he gives a little hop when Spurs score. He’s obviously delighted with the advantage he played.

  • avatar AL

    Did he? He’s no longer a closet spud then.

  • avatar Florian

    It’s daydreaming (by my timeshift), but if Spurs lose both their remaining games, and Everton wins theirs by a bigger margin than Spurs losses, Spurs drop to 6th on goal difference. Chances of that happening though are slim to none, knowing that Everton goes to Chelsea in the last day.

  • avatar Adam

    AL, He certainly looked pleased with himself, although I have no real complaints over the officiating. I just don’t trust Dean, simple as that really. We have the same 3 officials next Wednesday, so I hope for a similar performance in allowing advantages, but something about these 3 just doesn’t sit right with me, and I can’t put my finger on why?

  • avatar AL

    Yes, have noticed dean in the past calling fouls for us when playing advantage would be more sensible. He acts as if he’s doing us a favor when he’s effectively halting a potentially good break.

    When you have a unit work together for a long time the risk of collusion increases, & these 3 have been together too long for it to be still healthy.

  • avatar Mandy Dodd

    I share your concern Adam, but by the time of that game, Wigan will have played the cup final, whatever the outcome of that, it can only be to our advantage. They will be on the beach, possibly relegated, or in despair, possibly relegated or near as damn it. The spuds, and Chelsea looked knackered after giving all in that game, any spurs slip up in a difficult game at stoke this weekend and we will only need to beat Wigan…….I think?
    I know we can screw up, I know what dean is and we cannot be complacent, but think things are turning our way, if we screw this up we only have ourselves,…..or as you say, dean to blame. Wigan were terrible defensively in their last game, lets hope we can take advantage. I would maybe go back to our attacking system for this one

  • avatar Adam

    Mandy, I’m generally a hopeful individual. So I take on board what your stating. And yes Wigan were bad against the Swans in parts, in others they were quite good, lets hope Man C sap the energy out of them, Wembley can have that effect.

  • avatar Mandy Dodd

    Not home and dry, a very long way from it, but just really hoping. Am optimistic as well, but not quite at the level of our goal keeper! As you say, Wembley can sap energy and do funny things, win or lose. There is a danger Wigan may just go for it with us, another factor, Martinez is fairly short odds for Everton manager, I would imagine he is popular in the dressing room and should his exit be the case, the players may be motivated to give him a send off.
    But still think we will beat Wigan and dean

  • avatar WalterBroeckx

    And lets not forget…to support Stoke this weekend in their games against the spuds….
    Come on Stoke! (wash my mouth now ;) )

  • avatar bob

    Adam, Mandy, goonerpete,
    The minute-by-minute match report in the Guardian is making a lot out of the contention that the Lino (and I think the same one) screwed up two calls, including the last non-call of the OFFSIDE tying goal. Is everyone so sure that there’s nothing gone wrong in this match ref-wise? Are we not being focused enough on the Lino’s as potential perpetrators. Adam, even as your recent postings about these terminator trios and their imbalanced assignments? It would be instructive to learn the name of the Lino who is being slated for blowing major calls in this match that everyone seems to have stamped as OK. Any worries? What’s his name?

  • avatar Arun

    @bob
    Check out the video for the chelsea’s first goal. The linesman here is the one that should have chalked off the totts’ second goal.
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xzp6qn_c1-0
    He looks like John Brooks to me. He was the #### who asked manc players to go see their fans after their match at the emirates.

  • avatar Arun

    It should read as ‘the one that chalked off’.

  • avatar Arun

    Sorry for the second comment, I’m still feeling sleepy.

  • avatar Arun

    Another interesting thing about the Dean appointment is that it will be his 2nd game in 3 days. Isn’t fatigue an issue for the refs???

  • avatar bob

    Arun, Adam, Walter,
    Thanks for the link to the goal view, Arun!
    If it’s Brooks (the Chalkmaster or Chokemaster, etc.), then it’s going to be Dean/Brooks having two games in 3 days. Right, Adam, as you’d given us this earlier in the thread, right?:
    + Chelsea v Tottenham Mike Dean J Collin J Brooks
    + Sunderland v Southampton Mike Dean J Collin J Brooks
    + Arsenal v Wigan Mike Dean J Collin J Brooks
    Was there consultation among them as to the possible offside?

  • avatar bob

    Arun,
    The line that is drawn on the Telly is not parallel to the chalk line on the pitch. Right? Not parallel, but convergent. The presenter’s call it “so close” as in marginally offside, if at all. I wonder how Chelsky fans are taking this? (They do get a point closer to 3rd place finish, which needs just one more victory, right, so maybe there’s not too much of a beef there?)

  • avatar Arun

    bob
    I think it’s parallel but the projective view gives a converging impression.
    The ‘so close’ presenter is Gary Neville.
    I’m pretty sure chelsky fans must be disappointed as a win would have guaranteed a top 4 finish. Their team looked tired toward the end which must be down to a very hectic schedule. They have got the europa final on 15th before hosting everton which will be a difficult game as it may be the final game of moyes. So, rafa may not opt for his strongest side against villa and a bad result there might prove crucial for the third place.