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Errors and mistakes for free by players and referees

By Walter Broeckx

If we have ever done some shooting in our own foot it must have happened in the first 10 minutes in this match.

After a first chance for Giroud that was stopped by Cech we suddenly gave it away and you can take that literally.

The first goal was a gift from Oxlade-Chamberlain who gave the ball away in midfield and allowed Chelsea to use their favourite tactic: break away on speed and Mertesacker and Koscielny were left alone. Eto’o managed to curl the ball in the corner.

As if that wasn’t enough minutes later Cazorla lost the ball again when the rest had gone forward on the half way line and this time Shurle could use it to score the 2-0.

Two individual mistakes leading to two very avoidable goals.

Let me join in the mistakes must have been the thought of the referee and his 3 assistants.  The 4th official was our friend Anthony Taylor by the way.

First the ref let a possible foul on Arteta go in midfield so that Chelsea once again could break. The ball came to Hazard who took a shot. Oxlade-Chamberlain handled. What followed was referee comedy capers. Well he had one decision right of all the decisions he had to make: the penalty. All the rest was wrong and utterly wrong.  So I don’t complain about the penalty at all.

It obviously took the 4th official to give the penalty. This was clearly visible by the way that Marriner was talking and looking in the direction of the 4th official. Now I really wonder based on what he gave it? Did he see it with his own eyes or use video evidence. Which I think is not allowed now.  And I think it will be something like that as the 4th official was standing in the same line as the ref on the field.

So it would be amazing that the 4th official being 60 meters away would have seen it better than the 1st official who was 15 meters away.

What then followed was bizarre as suddenly Gibbs was shown a red card. Gibbs who had nothing to do with the whole incident.  Now to put things straight a red card for a handball should be given when a defender knocks it out of goal when it would go over the line. But the shot from Hazard was going wide anyway so it wasn’t a save on the goal line. It wasn’t preventing a goal. But it was deliberate handball but should have been a yellow card.

But as a result Arsenal had to continue with a man down. And that was not correct at all. I also would like to add that if you are not sure who committed the offence you just cannot pick out a player and give him a red card. That is making a complete mess of it.

Hazard scored from the rightfully given penalty and Arsenal were looking at a gigantic mountain to climb with wrongfully being a man down.  Oscar scoring another goal just for half time was not a real surprise. The referees further making a mess of things when Vermaelen who had come on for Podolski after the red card, clearly kicked the ball out against Torres but the refs gave a corner.

Changes were made at half time and I fear for injuries. Koscielny and Oxlade-Chamberlain went out. Jenkinson came in at right back. Vermaelen moved to the centre and Sagna to left back.

With the match already played it was a case of not conceding too much in the second half.  But again Arsenal losing the ball falling at the  edge of the own penalty area resulted in the next Chelsea goal.  Another shot in the foot.

Things got worse when Salah escaped and made it 6-0.

When you want to play in the top matches you need your best players. We don’t have them for the moment available.  The difference between the two teams can be best shown  by the fact that when their striker Eto’o had to come off with an injury he was replaced by £50M-man Torres.  Our whole team including the bench hasn’t cost that much.  I would love to replay this match with a fit Ramsey, Özil and Theo. And with 11 man on the pitch.

I now wonder what the FA will do. It was a referee blunder and cost us already in this match. So having Gibbs giving further punishment would be completely unfair. And as the refs have already acted on the field and if they see it again then can only come to the conclusion that it should have been a yellow card they cannot punish Oxlade-Chamberlain for it.

Oh and no more early kick offs from now on please.  We somehow seem not to be focused from the start in such early matches.  In a way we seem to have lost the league in the early kick off matches this season. From now on concentrate on the FA cup and keeping a CL place at the end of the season is what we must aim for.

I feel for Wenger as he deserved a better performance (and a better refereeing) in game 1000. But the most important game now is game 1001.

210 comments to Errors and mistakes for free by players and referees

  • pete

    Walter – I thought the same re the red card – the ball was going wide so how on earth was it the denial of an obvious goalscoring opportunity? That idiot Michael Owen on BT didn’t seem to understand that.

    Notwithstanding, a very bad day at the office indeed. It happens. Learn from it and move on.

    And the biggest lesson is to avoid those injuries.

  • A bad way to mark the 1000th game but then it is just 1 other game so we pick ourselves up and march on to game 1001.

    No whining, no navel gazing, no Monday morning quarterbacking. It was a very poor game. We all saw it. Now let’s move on.

  • Jax

    Sorry Walter. You’ve got your Arsenal specs on again. The Chamberlain save would have gone in if he hadn’t have handled it. Definite penalty, and I wondered who would be the first to suggest we’d been hard done by. I should have known it would be you. Shame on you!

  • Louis

    The night is darkest just before dawn.

    When two evenly balanced teams meet, even the slightest advantage for one team, be it ever so little, can tip the balance and make the outcome a foregone conclusion. Now Arsenal were missing their best players, so we can’t speak about evenly-balanced teams in today’s match. But even then, with the favourable decisions (a foul on Arteta in the build-up to the penalty not given?), the wrongful sending-off, the wrong player being sent off (hasn’t this happened a few years ago to Veermalen/Koscielny?), what should be a fair and even playing field clearly becomes a tilted pitch, with (who else could it be?) Arsenal having to play an uphill battle.

    With the horrendous money spent, matches against Chelsea and Manchester City will never be evenly matched form a transfer-market-point of view. But the same can be said for teams such as Bayern and Barcelona who have a much more expensive squad. But does Arsenal not play much better against these european teams? What is the difference in these games?

    Refereeing maybe?

    I think it can clearly be said, that the referees had a clear bias against Arsenal in today’s match, which manifested itself in this ridiculous and calamitous sending-off. To the end result today it might not have made much of a difference, but it shows that the bias is there. In a game with evenly matched teams, such as the 0-0 draw against Chelesea in December, with the same kind referee being in charge, do you think Arsenal might have a chance of winning? Well, we all remember the ignored penalty for Arsenal and how that turned out…

    Welcome to the uphill-battle…

  • pete

    Jax – It was absolutely, definitely going wide! About 2-3 ft. The ball scarcely deviated after hitting Ox’s finger tips.

  • Sammy The Snake

    A bad day at the office, but there have been too many of them recently… This means no competence at the job!

    The ref made a mistake, but we were going to lose this game anyway… Even with Jack & Ozil!

    Respect for Wenger, but how many times have we been caught with our pants down going gong-ho when we are travelling and short of our best players? I dont want to play AW’s role and dont pretend to know more than him… But why didn’t Flamini start?

    Old habits die hard… Fighting for 4th again!!! I hope we dont repeat our usual mistakes in the FA Cup.

    Let’s not complain about the media for some time… We give them ammunition losing like this.

    But a great thanks to the travelling Gooners who supported the team till the last moment. Proud of you!

  • rantetta

    A review of the decisions right from kick off would be interesting, Walter. This was a really painful watch, but it must’ve been more painful for the players. Chelsea kicked and shoved right from the start but it was the Arsenal players being pulled up.

    How many goals followed fouls on Ars players today.

    The usual suspects will be creaming themselves. I’m gonna put on a clean Arsenal shirt – with the crest next to my heart.

    Pick up yourself and the players, please Arsène.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    All of the faithful were hoping for a good win or a point to celebrate this momentous milestone , but its was not to be . The team was poor today ,no excuses .No blaming or pulling out of hair from me .So what say we move on .
    Here’s for the next 1,000 games ,stating with Swansea on Tuesday .Hope we restart some momentum to finish this season well.
    Up the Gunners !

  • GooneressNo1

    Rantetta well said.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    The Arsenal fans in the stadium were fantastic – thank you guys ! What support you gave the team .Cheers !

  • Yassin

    Jax,
    Then u got the media specs on again. Cause it was a foul on Arteta in the first place, whatever happens next is irrelevant.

    @All,
    To compare why we cant win those games, look at the Giroud chance before the goal and the eto goal.
    Giroud is surrounded with 3 players who are not afraid of a penalty against them, putting him under huge pressure.
    Eto goal, our defenders went to cover for the pass cause they knew they cant defend one on one, they may get a penalty and a red, they cant stop the counter with a foul cause that is either a red or a yellow. Now when it happened in earlier games, other teams would make a foul, and no cards would be given, and we were called we were weak. Yes we made mistakes today, but the tactics sht one used could have back fired had the refs been fairer and had they been refereeing as internationl leagues do. If they want more physical games in the league, then dont call a foul when we go physical on the slightest touch.

  • dan

    Poor performance+poor tactics+poor ref = poor result.

  • bjtgooner

    Good point about the away fans – they were great.

    We will learn from this and we will come back stronger and we will stuff the Chelski scum – classless from owner down.

    For now we must support the team & manager – the season is not over & there is still much to do.

    Walter, fully agree with your write up.

  • AL

    Walter,
    The 4th official was always going to be a concern. I was asking this same question on the other thread; who made that call? Marinner and his assistant didn’t spot the offence. But I doubt anything will be done, its another robbery and we have to move on.

    Louis
    Well said, big games are always going to be hard without any tilting that the slightest tilt makes it a mountain to climb. Thats all it is. I don’t buy the notion we cant cut it with the big teams, its simply not true. You will see the same Chelsea struggle against Hull/Swansea next week, while we batter those teams. If we were rubbish then one would expect us to struggle against those teams too. Against the big boys we never get a fair shake.

    Jax
    I normally ignore your drivel, but unless you are cross-eyed or something, you must be the only one who thought that shot was on target. The commentators, BBC site, everywhere, they all say the shot was going wide.

  • Andrew Crawshaw

    Bad day at the office, on to Tuesday.

    COYG

  • Arvind

    Didn’t see the game as has been the case for a while now. Checked the score after 10 minutes and saw the 2-0 and was dismayed. It then kept getting worse..sadly. I’m a bit gutted really. Largely for AW I’ll admit – surely he deserved better than that.

    Lets react against Swansea though. Nothing else will do.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Life , death and logic .

    Mom and Dad were trying to console Susie, whose dog, Skipper, had recently died.

    “You know,” Mom said, “it’s not so bad. Skipper’s probably up in Heaven right now, having a grand old time with God.”

    Susie stopped crying and asked, “What would God want with a dead dog?”

  • rantetta

    Oh yes, after the first two goals I switched to a fuzzier picture and foreign commentary.

    The ArsFans never stopped singing. Fantastic. Amazing. Wonderful.

    I’m going to do a bit of de-cluterring and run some errands for family.
    Of course, I could choose to stew in misery and blame, or even slit my wrists.

    Hell NO.

    When I’m done I may watch a rerun of the Everton match, or check out how Serena does at 5. I’ll sip on ginger tea, but I’ll try and avoid chocky biccys and other crapfood.

    Don’t let me stop you exuding bile and further messing up your head.
    It’s. Your. Choice.

  • AL

    And just to show we are not as bad as our losses against the chavs, city or the scousers might suggest, how come we don’t collapse like this in Europe? Against the bigger and better sides? Its the effing refs. They make one costly decision against you which costs you for the entire match. Then factor in the 50-50 calls that seem to go only one way and you’re in real trouble. We have been screwed in Europe but not to this extent. While i’m a very optimistic individual, I expect more of today against City…

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Works for me.

    There was a man who said, “I work myself to death because I’m nearsighted.”
    And so his friend asked him, “Why? What does nearsightedness have to do with you working yourself to death on your job?”
    Then the man said, “Because I can never tell when the boss is coming. So I always have to work very hard!”

  • rantetta

    “Bile” and my comments around it – are written for the AAA and other naysayers.

  • dan

    Anyone else watching the free footie?

  • Sammy The Snake

    Maybe God has a sense of humour after all… Liverpool down 2-1 after 25 min against Cardiff!
    Many twists and turns till end of season (for finishing 3rd instead of 4th).

  • Aj

    Regrettably, I have to put the blame firmly at Arsene’s door, in spite of his 1000 matches. When will he learn that you can’t pick a team full of tippi-tappi midfielders in games against the big sides? They need to be much stronger in the middle. A scoreline of 0-0 after 70 minutes would have been perfect – even after 90 minutes wouldn’t have been bad. Instead, we go hunting the victory in the first few minutes and end up 2-0 down inside 10 minutes. I am a big Arsene fan but I just wish he would learn that you cannot always dominate the best teams, particularly away from home and sometimes a more prudent approach would get the job done.

  • Arvind

    Thank You Walter, Bootoomee, bjtgooner, rantetta and all the usual suspects (in a good way). I’m usually extremely balanced but I got up in the morning and saw the 6-0 – it hurt me today. Well..mostly for AW..I wanted him to have a great day and it was spoiled. Luckily there’s this site and all of you around for days like these and I feel better already.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    The Rich Hooker – If only…..

    A hooker brings a client to her condo on Lake Shore Drive in Chicago. The client asks her if she gives good hand jobs.

    “You see this condo? I bought it by giving good hand jobs.”

    Her client tells her to give him a hand job. Afterwards, he is impressed and asks her if she gives good blow jobs.

    “Look out the window. See that red Ferrari on the street? I bought it by giving good blow jobs.”

    Her client asks her to give him a blow job. Afterwards, he is really impressed and asks her if she is good in bed.

    “Look out the window. See that big yacht out there on Lake Michigan? I could own that if only I had a vagina.”
    Tweet Share

  • Yassin

    @Al,
    50-50 calls? Spot on, they get the foul for a little push and we get nothing for a huge one.

    Now about Wenger and tactics? If u mean by tactics that he should watch chelsea matches and see how the ref treat them to take advanatage, then sure Jose is a better one. But if u look at who is better at pure football tactics, u should first balance the field.

  • Mutiu Jimoh

    Goodafternoon Mr Walter,I always feel dissadpointed when people like you say we are out of the title race because we lost to a title rival , no because if we win our outstanding game it will be 4 point and Mourinho cannot beat his chest and say they will go unbeating till the end ,everybody will drop point that is for sure today is Arsenal tommorow may be Chelsea so let us keep the faith .The league and the F.A Cup is ours afterall our home matches are more than the away matches and the games that I beleive are tough are Man city and Everton away and the are winnable.All the remaining games are like a cup final and also it is smaller team that will decide who win the league as we saw them lost away to Aston villa last time.I love the fans at brigde today ,they were all good if not for bad refereeing and the red card ,the game could have gone either way.

  • pete

    The boss said (per the BBC):

    “This defeat is my fault, I take full responsibility for it. I don’ t think there’s too much need to talk about the mistakes we made. We got a good hiding today. It’s how we respond now on Tuesday night [against Swansea] and the best way is not to explain too much the mistakes.

    “Yes, of course it’s one of the worst days [in my career]. It’s over after 20 minutes and it’s a long game after that. You don’t prepare all week to experience that kind of experience.”

    Wenger on the sending off: “I believe it was handball but the referee hasn’t seen it. The ball went out and I think it’s Chamberlain who touched the ball. I don’t know who gave indication to the referee that it was handball but he has certainly not seen it. Of course. it’s a huge disappointment today but we want to win the next game now.”

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Duck luck – There’s a moral to this story ,somewhere!

    Once there was a farmer with three sons. He gave a duck to his eldest son and told him to see how much money he could get for it at the market. The eldest son came back later in the day, shouting “Dad, I got $10 for the duck!”

    The farmer said “Well done, son.”

    The next day, the farmer sent the middle son to the market with a duck and he came back with $20. “Well done, son,” said the farmer.

    He then sent the youngest son to the market to see how much he could get for the duck. On the way to the market, the son met a prostitute.

    “I’ll give you a f**k if you give me that duck,” said the prostitute. After they did it, the prostitute said, “That was so good, I’ll give you the duck back if you f**k me again.” He did, and then he went on to the market.

    On the way, the duck flew out of his arms and was run over by a truck. The truck driver jumped out of the cab and said “Oh no, I’m so sorry! Here’s $50 to pay for it.”

    The youngest son went back to the farm and said to his father, “Hey, Dad! I got a fuck for a duck, a duck for a fuck, and $50 bucks for a fucked up duck.”

  • Sammy The Snake,

    We are all hurt by this result by can we keep our sense of proportion please? I know you are steadfast in your support but it is on occasions like this that it is most needed. Whether we lost 0-1 or 0-20, we still lost 3 points so I don’t get the despondence over the scoreline.

    Let’s cheer the team on as they collect another 3 against Swansea.

  • pete

    Elsewhere, Man C appear to have been awarded another soft penalty and are leading Fulham 1-0. Liverpool are 2-1 down at Cardiff and Everton have just been pegged back to 1-1 at home to Swansea. I must say I am a little concerned with Everton – probably the biggest remaining threat for a top four place as we still have to go there.

    The sad thing is that Wilshere, Ramsey and Ozil will all be back at a similar time – just when we have finished our hard run and are into the last few games which are easier, on paper at least!

  • Sammy The Snake

    Bootoomee: Thanks for the reminder, but champions aren’t made of such losses. Even Wenger took the blame (the gentleman that he is, of course). The team with the worst GD in top 4 isn’t shooting for the stars, is it?

    I just want to get a sense that we are learning from our mistakes.

    I’ll stop writing now and just shut up.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    All things said and done, the referees mistakes did not cost us the game, the players did. The referees decisions right or wrong would not have changed the scorleline if they were any different.

    I agree we need to get behind the lads but these Mickey Mouse games need to stop and the buck has to stop with Wenger.

  • Wolfgang

    Perhaps the ref sent Gibbs off to weaken the gunners defence .You never know.After this debacle,don’t be surprised the gunners lose to MC by a big margin.
    It could happen if Wenger continues hid hdl. He never seems to learn.

  • Mick

    The worst part of this defeat is having Arsene’s special day f****d up. The second worst was watching the arrogant prat Mourinho with the smug look on his stupid face. Poor performance by the team today, even poorer by the officials.
    For the penalty, it appeared neither the ref nor the linesman were going to give it, so since when is the fourth official allowed to get involved in awarding penalties. The red card award could only have been arrived at by way of guesswork since the on field officials didn’t apparently see the handball. How could Mariner decide it was a red card if he didn’t see it? Again it must have come from Taylor. Have the rules been changed.

  • pete

    If the ref hadn’t erroneously sent off our player (doesn’t matter who) then the final score would have likely been 3-0 or something similar.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    I know there’s not much blood lost between Mourinho and Wenger but shame on the self-proclaimed ‘special-one’ for walking off and not shaking Arsene’s hand on this his 1000th game. Bad enough he was in charge when they beat us on his 500th game!

  • lopez

    No excuses today, we lost and we lost bad !!! regarding the penalty; by that point we were losing 2-0 already..No excuses, we were shit and that’s it !!

  • AL

    pete 3:32
    “I don’t know who gave indication to the referee that it was handball but he has certainly not seen it. ”

    I think that confirms what we suspected; it was the 4th official who told the ref it was a handball (presumably after watching a replay) and to send Gibbs off(he got that one wrong) Why else would marinner have not listened to The Ox who was telling him “it was me, it was me”. The instruction had come from a ‘higher’ source, and because he was acting on something he didn’t see he had to go with what he had been told. Riley told us that after the Mikel debacle the communications between the officials would be recorded, would Arsenal have a case here?

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    I wonder what it is with away lunchtime KOs (as Mandy has pointed out)…I seems odd that we have let in so many goals… thought that Sagna wanted to get us back in the game in the second half, Santi too. But mostly the lads looked hung over or out to lunch, probably at some crappy restaurant where the waiter doesnt bring the right food and spills it in your lap.Then still charges you whilst giving you a thrashing with a cane.

    Walter I think you need to be sent to all lunchtime games from now on, as you proved to be the lucky mascot in the last midday game!!

    I hope the lads can bounce back from this, especially the Ox( bizarre antics indeed!), Swansea will be thinking its their chance.
    Money-backed teams like Chelsea remind me of people say they are hunters that go shooting tigers that are kept in cages.

    Id like to see that conceited shit Mourinho manage Sunderland or Fulham or WBA, and see how he get on then,its all very well having a massive budget…
    Oh well! Hey Brickfields are you going to listen to the world service this afternoon?

    COYG! aha and sadly uhum, amen.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    I suspect Gibbs’ card will be rescinded. Bet the Ox cops a 1 game ban through all of this.

  • Sod Gunner

    The sending off/penalty incident didn’t change the game as we were 2-0 down at the time and is only distracting from a woeful performance against a top team again. The team is short on pace and strength and get pushed off the ball too easily. In January, Arsene Wenger knew Walcott was gone for the rest of the season and Ramsey was also going to be out until March at least and what does he do, but get an average and injured player on loan. Chelsea bought 2 players to strenghten the
    Their squad and look how it’s helped them. We
    have needed another striker for 2 seasons but what do we do??? Persist with Bendtner and buy an unknown youngster.

  • AL

    I just don’t understand how anyone can come to the conclusion that red card or not the scoreline would have been the same. After playing 75 minutes with 10 men, and chasing the game???

  • Wolfgang

    The buck stops with the fm. This not the first time he has lost by a big margin to his nearest challenger.It will the last if he were to leave.
    Arsenal are fighting for 3rd/4th/5th.
    If Mu win the cl,and Arsenal finish 4th,Wenger shd leave. Enough of his pretty soccer and dancing soccer.

  • Al the Gooner

    yeah!!! we need some oil money!!! that’s how it goes in modern soccer!!!!

  • dan

    @Walter/Tony

    As this season draws to a close, has a season review ever been conducted? Us bloggers get a chance to have our say, even vote on the best game/best player/worst game/crappiest ref/ and so on.

    Doesn’t just have to be with all things Arsenal either.

  • pete

    Would Arsenal have a case appealing an Ox red card as he clearly did NOT deny a clear goal scoring opportunity? It is not even a matter of opinion.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    It was a red card no matter how much we debate it. He (Ox) handled the ball deliberately to prevent it from going in. With the aid of TV we can debate that it was going wide but to the ref who has a judgement call to make I don’t see he had any other option.

  • pete

    But it was definitely going wide! It was a clear error by the ref to send (anyone) off! Absolutely should not have been a red card. But can it be appealed?

  • Sod Gunner

    We had 11 on the pitch against Man City and Liverpool and got hammered both times. It was still a penalty to chelsea but not a sending off and more than likely would have been 3-0 anyway. The way we were playing we were never coming back from 3 down. Against Liverpool it could have been 8 or 9 -1. Any team can have an off day and get hammered but when you have 3 in 3 months the alarm bells have to start ringing and you have to look at Why the team isn’t up to it instead of looking for excuses all the time.

  • Yassin

    5tgh Gen Gooner,

    So u want to be fair, it was a foul on Arteta that started that attack, so no it should have been neither a penalty nor a red card.

    For God sake was I watching another game? Man why cant anybody see the foul on Arteta but me and Walter?

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    I agree it was going wide but it was close enough that a referee without the aid of a TV replay could not make that judgement. Either way even with all 11 men on the pitch at 3-0 down we were going to receive a hiding. We just wasn’t in this game and have to accept it was our failing as a team rather than looking for excuses and blaming the referee.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    @ Kenneth -Service ? Who died ?

    http://www.lolbrary.com/Funny/Wise-words/62928?lp=12

    Goodnight guys !

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    Yassin – It was a foul on Arteta but these incidents happen in every game and we just have to accept it. The team should be professional and experienced enough to handle these incidents. To say we lost because a foul wasn’t awarded to us is not rational.

  • stan gittings

    Dan, you left one thing out “poor manager”. He’s yesterdays man. Sorry, but no top team should go down 6-0. His dealings in the transfer market are just a joke and he is entirely responsible for the total lack of quality cover for injuries. We will not win anything more under this guy.

  • dan

    Chelsea’s forgettable weekend last saturday, today is ours.

    Everything is going wrong, we fall into 4th spot.

  • Kos

    Resign please

  • Kos

    Won’t even get a fourth at this rate

  • collins Elechi

    @wolfgang
    Pls just shut up, yes the buck stops at the boss’s. And he said he’s to blame so what the hell are u still yapping about? Its at times of weakness and defeat dat we know de real true test of a man’s character and based on dat ua a scum. If u want to moan go elsewhere. In Arsene we trust. Anybody who thinks otherwise can go jump down the well. Coyg

  • soglorious

    we lost 1,2,3,4,5,6 zero to Chelsea. how many points did we lose? Three. anything negative u say after these two facts are your opinion and believe me, it doesn’t change those fact, so I’ll suggest you keep ur negativity inside of u and support the team. COYG

  • Sod Gunner

    It was a foul on Arteta but sometimes you get those decisions and sometimes you don’t, but it still was a shambles of a performance and the lack of quality and strength in the team is so obvious. Look at the strikers, city , Chelsea and Liverpool have compared to us. It groundhog day again fighting it out for 4th place.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Had to leave it a couple hours to think about this, but despite completely inept officials, that has to rank among the darker hours for wengers arsenal. With Jose , it is personal against wenger, he wanted to rub his nose in it….and didn’t we oblige. This has happened three times away to the big boys this year, in early kick offs, three times is careless, and implies there is something wrong with our prep for such games. It seems the teams of the last two or three years can show guts and heart, but are never more than a few games away from making the critics ecstatic. The lows of the last three seasons have been real lows. We just look like a team who had run out of steam.
    We have rightly lavished praise on him for what he has done for the club. I wanted him to stay this morning, and I still do after this disaster. But the team just did not look prepared, and not for the first time this season. I know wenger is not one to analyse opponents, but seeing such debacles makes me wonder if he should maybe prepare for the opposition a bit more. With our injuries and squad, we are not good enough to just go out and do our thing against the big boys, not in the way previous wenger teams were, not a criticism, just a fact. Wenger has taken responsibility for this , just as he rightly takes the praise. I am glad he has done, because this team were not set up properly for such opponents, and yes, wenger needs to take the blame, as he has done.
    Our job, to back the team, we need to start winning again, or we are going to have Everton breathing down our necks if not careful. We are not going to win the league but wenger needs to get at least in the top four,preferably win the cup, use the resources he has to build in the summer, take a close look at injuries, and after this, maybe coaching and tactics against some teams, and start doing a whole lot better against the big boys
    Today was a shambles all round, steps need to be taken to avoid repeating it.
    Yes, would live to see how we would do today with theo and Ramsey, but unfortunately, we rarely field out strongest team.

  • bjtgooner

    I wonder will Wenger get a letter of apology from Riley – re Marriner sending off the wrong player and failing to “see” a foul by Chelski in the build up to the incident.

    Did he give the penalty and the wrong red on the say so of the Chelski players?

  • dan

    @mandy

    so very true, against the big boys we look jaded.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Collins Elechi – All Arsenal supporters are allowed their opinion. Yes keep the faith but also be honest enough to recognise that there are problems in the team and in particular the man selecting it. We really have to stop blaming the referees for every thing bad that happens at AFC, let’s be honest, by that reconing Podolski’s goal against Bayern should never have stood! Fans are upset and should be allowed to voice their opinions and believe it or not a large chunk of the fan base has grown disillusioned with Wenger in recent years with justification. Accept it!

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Mandy Dodd – Well Said!

  • charles

    epl is a physical,technical,tatical and fast league. How many boxes do our team ticks. we know we have only 11 players, no bench and prone to injuries. only a poor farmer complain about his tools and land. we need action from wenger n club, we need a team that can play the epl. we act too nice to other teams.

  • Sod Gunner

    Losing 6-0 it not only about losing 3 points but how it will effect confidence and also goal difference. I was at anfield in 89 and I remember goals against and for being extremely important!!!!! It could become an issue this season if we finish level with a team for 4th.

  • dan

    Mourinho is a lot if things, but he’ll never go into any match so ill prepared.

    Our team is talented but lack the belief to get over the final hurdle.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Dan – Indeed we either accept that Mourinho prepares his team better that Arsene does or that all of Mourinho’s Chelsea squads are superior to Arsenal. Sucks no matter how you look at it.

  • Kos

    Time to move on Wenger… It’s like pep said I could not motivate my players so I left… Do the honorable thing Wenger and just go at least leave with some kind of respect

  • Mandy Dodd

    Just gets worse, Liverpool winning 5 3, city 4. 0 and Everton 3. 1
    We really need Rambo back, especially if Ox injured?
    Stand to be corrected, but Just been reading, we have not let in six goals twice in the league since 1959. Some results this season have just not been good enough, time for change, not in the manager, but they way we approach the big boys, the non German big boys that is!
    We needed to keep things quiet for much longer than we did today, giving the ball away as we did made that impossible

  • GoingGoingGooner

    “This world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel”
    – Horace Walpole

    laughing and crying right now

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    In the first half of Wenger’s tenure we used to regularly play with 10 men, let face it 10 men are normally harder to break down as they tend to galvanise defensively. Seems lately when we’re reduced to 10 we fall apart and that can only be down to Wenger’s approach. Seems to be no guidance from the big man in these situations unlike the past?

  • sperez

    Wenger is not a big game manager because he is not top, He’s past his sell by date. He can’t motivate. He doesn’t have tactical knowledge and he never prepares his team against the big sides. Hence, the embarrassment.
    In January, Wenger had the chance to correct a problem.: midfield slow and without physicality. What did he do? Signed a crock. Wenger is a joke.
    Signed Ozil for a record fee and didn’t give him the tools to succed – a good striker with pace. Instead Wenger gave Ozil a donkey to work his killer through-balls.
    No wonder ManU fans were stating that they would prefer Arsenal to win the title but they knew that was impossible under Wenger, the serial loser.
    Talking about ManU, even spuds could beat them…
    Enjoying the ride ??? Well, Have fun with another humiliating defeat courtesy of the ‘specialist in failure’.

  • Sod Gunner

    Spot on Mandy. However Wenger must take most of the responsibility for the team as he has bought some very average players in recent seasons and failed to buy when we really needed to. Watching Liverpool against Cardiff, the only difference between them and us is that they have forwards with great pace and finishing while we have only one forward who is decent enough but has no pace.
    Hate mourinho and the way he behaves, but credit for his tactics and Winning mentality

  • Marchand

    The season is going by the script!! Wenger built a fantastic foundation for arsenal to go forward. But it cant be him as a coach or we get more of the same!! and all u come up with is the wrong player dismissal, walter????3:0 or 6:0 doesnt matter much or does it! It really hurts to see the great man wenger suffer like this. Someone has to stand up and end that nightmare for him and Arsenal FC!!!

  • Florian

    Just woke up and watched the match in fast motion. Couldn’t do it any other way after the first 10 minutes. Horrible day for Arsenal, and looking at the critical moments nothing went our way. You guys have debated it all before I had a chance to chime in, so, I will only add one little piece:

    When you find yourself hitting the bottom, the only way left is up.

  • Sod Gunner

    I hope for Arsene Wenger that we win the FA cup and he retires on a high. He has done so much for the club and deserves great credit but some of the players he has bought recently are just not good enough for Arsenal and his tactics or lack of them are a worry. I would hate to see him ending up a sad figure like Brian Clough living on past successes.

  • Thomas

    Wenger is a disgrace and a coward for not showing up at the post match press conference. The Specialist in failure strikes again.

  • sperez

    Remember when we are saying this would happen? What was the response??? We’re top ! LOL! So predictable. Wenger has a poor record against big teams and this season was no different. In fact it was worse because he just sat on his hands and ignored the need of a good striker and a player to beef up the midfield despite the resources available.
    I know it’s getting more difficult and ridiculous to write excuses for Wenger and his pathetic managerial skills. But in deluded minds everything is possible just suppress reality once more…
    The worst thing is to know that Wenger has no self-respect to resign after years of failure. He knows Arsenal can’t progress under him. But he’s loyal to money and to think otherwise is just stupid.
    Oh ‘he could go to Real Madrid’ He knows he would be accountable there, he understands he woudn’t be unsackable.
    Stop making excuses. Wenger is finished. And Mourinho is laughing…

  • Arsenal just conceded 5 or more away goals for the 3rd time this season.

    AAAAAAAhhhhhhhhhhhhh the sky is falling.

    We are doomed, doomed I tell you. 4th place is definitely out of our hands now.

    Wenger is clueless and has lost it. He should just resign and stop “living on past glory like Brian Clough”.

    Wigan is so going to thump us in the FA cup semi-final because they beat the team beat us 6-3.

    Arsenal should get Roberto Martinez, he knows how to win things …….

    Whining is what is in vogue on Untold today and I don’t want to be left out.

  • Thomas

    I just love the “bad day at the office”-excuse. Absolutely pathetic to bring that up very single time.

  • ARSENAL 13

    Sperez is back with a bang

  • John L

    oh the rats are back in force….funny how i never see these people when we do well…

    something to clarify (i realize you lot aren’t the brightest) no one here is saying that we lost because of the ref!!!!

    we are saying that that moment is indicative of what the team faces with the refs in this league.

  • Florian

    Guys,

    Stop feeding the trolls. I do wonder if it’s possible to add upvote and downvote buttons for comments. Would clean up the place pretty neatly 🙂

  • aleandreas

    Arsenal were already 2-0 down and being hammered when the penalty was given, how can anyone say the ref changed the game? We were absolute rot and playing school-boy tactics from start to finish.

  • This is my take on what we saw today, people need to stop talking about the red card, Ox pulled off a save that any keeper would have been proud of, definate pen, it was 100 percent going wide, so the red card is debatable perhaps, BUT it was a tiny moment in game in which we were already essentially three nil down in 15 minutes in. It bore no relevence to the out come so forget it,

    What you should be talking about is how wengers blatant overuse of his first 11 has destroyed our season, ozil , ramsey, both out due to muscle injuries, thats what happens, when you dont allow these players time off occasionally, they are like sports cars and arsene seems to of late run the into the ground. How many games did ramsey have off before his injury? how about Ozil? none

    what about giroud, one of the best in the league until he becomes physically shot, playing every single game, since when is it p[ossible to win a league with one recognised striker, why bother even pretending we are going for the league?

    Wenger has literally set us up to fail

  • sperez

    4th place is meaningless. This is where Wenger can finish. It has become a shield for him. It’s a testament to Wenger’s inability to win and to the loser mentality that has spread like a plague contaminating the whole club (including player).
    It’s interesting the dumbing down. You lot were talking about WINNING THE TITLE. ‘We’re top!’ (Remember?). Now, it’s 4th place ‘trophy’ all over again. Not only Wenger is holding Arsenal back…

  • sperez

    ‘funny how i never see these people when we do well’
    What was the last time Arsenal really did well?
    Stop the dumbing down. Stop parading 4th place trophy as a real achievement. As I said, 4th place is now a testament to Wenger’s incompetence on the winning front.

  • Killswitch Engage

    I am so embarrassed. Pretty much lost for words….. Arsene: numbered days.

  • Macduff

    @sperez

    What would ‘Untrue’ Arsenal have to write about if it wasn’t defending the loser and blaming referees and the media for his failure

  • Sperez – surely you know we are only here to torment people like you and for some reason you keep reading

  • dan

    @Sperez

    Wenger missed the post match press conference, not only do we have an inept manager but a careless one as well.

    Seriously our manager is gangsta.

    Sperez sort this out.

  • John L

    what i wanted this year was the team to show signs of progression and to compete. i believe we have done that so far.

    tactically we seem to have learned our lesson a bit. we overload with defenders late in matches when defending a narrow lead. we sometimes even allow the opposition the ball while we keep our shape and soak up pressure for periods of the game.

    the players seem really up for it. collectively and individually. ive loved watching flamini yell and scream at people to get in shape. mert demanding loyalty and respect to the fans even from our ‘star’ players. woj and jack seem to be continuing into roles of future leaders.

    we are competing. top of the table for much of the year, fa cup semi final. showed signs of improvement against bayern until we were down to ten men, then alot of graft and spirit to hold them to only two nil (not sure we could have done that last year). a draw away with 11 v 11.

    this is all very respectable and i believe things we have done much better than last year. this is what i was hoping for….any silverware is just an wonderful bonus…

  • Sod Gunner

    The sky isn’t falling in or anything like that but supporters are paying more and more and it will be even more next season and they still are seeing the same results and no major investment in the team. Wenger is constantly looking for players on the cheap, Cahill, Mata etc could be Arsenal players but we squabbled over small differences in fees and failed to buy. We have sold our best players for the last 9 years, Viera, Henry, Van Persie, Cole, Clichy, Fabregas, Song, Nasri etc and replaced them with lesser players. I have followed the club for over 35 years and have seen many a bad day but what is so disheartening is the club seem to have lost its way. All we hear is how much money the club is making from the sale of players. I understand it’s a business but Winning trophies makes a club more successful financially. 8 years without a trophy wouldn’t be acceptable at most big clubs. There is nothing wrong in supporters criticising the club or manager when certain problems are obvious. Blaming refs and constantly looking for excuses will not cover over the cracks. We moved to a new stadium to get more revenue to compete with the top clubs but now that the bills are paid all we seem to be doing is hoarding our finances. Maybe the club should reimburse the fans who were at Stamford bridge and endured today’s shambles. Wigan did it a few seasons ago and we are surely financially better off than them.

  • Steve0

    Not sure you can really put too much fault in the award of a red card there, without the perfect camera angle it was just impossible to tell that was going wide. Gibbs certainly didn’t realize that, and was certainly handling the ball because he believed it was going in if he didn’t.

    That would be a situation where it would be nice to have someone reviewing the incident on video, to determine what color the Ox card should have been (and that it was, indeed, the Ox). It was always a pen and always a card, but without having access to the correct camera angle, the referee almost has to give a red in that situation unless he’s absolutely sure that the shot was going wide.

  • John L

    im not happy about fourth place, but its the bare minimum for any big club, so thats how i feel about it. the bare minimum, nothing to get excited about, but on the other hand a huge step back if we were to be below that. so at the start of any season it has to be the least required.

    however, i do not think that we are glued to that position. arsenal have been very consistent with the ‘lower’ teams this year. whereas liverpool, city, and chelsea have had a couple unexpected dropped points here and there. plus they have some tough matches coming up….point is, expect a few more surprises this year and that the others will also have some disappointing days before the end. its up to us to capitalize on any of that!

    which basically is the different between me and you. when we are top of the table, you say ‘it cant last’ i say ‘enjoy it’. when we have a hugely disappointing loss you say ‘see, this is the best we can ever be’….while im already looking ahead hoping for the best….

    learn to take things as they come, believe what you believe, look forward and adapt. you obviously dont believe in this team, manager or club….so maybe its time you look forward and adapted to a new club that would suit your beliefs more?

  • Florian

    Sod Gunner,

    The financial constraints are not over yet. We are in a better position this season only because of the front-loaded stadium naming rights deal, and the improved tv deal, which is collective for the whole PL, so not much of an advantage over our competitors. It will take another 1-2 years before we see the full strength of our commercial department. All these years their hands were tied (see Swiss Ramble for reference), but it’s not like they came unstuck all of a sudden. These changes take time too.

  • Macduff

    Florian

    Latest accounts show £145 million in cash reserves in bank- unused. More than the rest of the teams in the PL put together. While Chelski add to a great midfield by spending £22 million on a top class defensive midfielder, we loan a 32 year old crock who has been put out to pasture in Russia

  • Florian

    John L,

    That’s true, and I might add, we are left with one tough match – City at home – and maybe Everton away. Looking forwards, we’re still in a good position. The chances for the title are realistically speaking slimmer, but we’re still in the mix. The team demonstrated time and again that it bounces back from lows, so I trust that we’ll get the 3 points on Tuesday, and have a good run until the end of the season.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Don’t think anyone is blaming the ref for losing today, sod gunner, just using his display to highlight the ineptitude of our refs, and we are quite often on the end of their ineptitude, as were west brom the last time this ref visited Stamford bridge.
    But refs aside, our setup seemed unprofessional in the way they approached and executed this game. We are one of the few teams that can regularly seem to make Torres look good these days. Wenger has held his hand up on today, and rightly so, we were not sufficiently prepared for some reason. We have a problem, giroud tries but seems either fatigued or out of form, we have no experienced runners on top of this, this is making it far too easy especially for the better teams to worry less about our attacking threat and flood our MF with attacking intent,that’s what happened today, and to a lesser extent against the spuds. We will have enough to cope with lesser sides, Ox and Gnabry can do damage, but city worry me. Everton will now be a bit vital. Just been on the phone to a Geordie relative, his lot think Remy to arsenal is a done deal, not sure what to make of that, can think of players I would rather have, but wish we had him now.
    We seriously have to get some pace into this team, I have never seen such a one paced wenger team. Still when you have Jack ozil theo and Ramsey out, you are going to struggle . Like it or not,, think this is a season to get out of the way in terms of the league. But hopefully an FA cup on the horizon will shut a few up, and go into next season with much more fire power than we have available now, and sort out the fcuking injuries!
    The season is not over yet, we will get behind the team starting against Swansea. We may have to take fourth , with it , huge criticism I guess as we have more cash than Liverpool, an FA cup and attempts by wenger to try and sort a few recurring problems in the summer, as long as he promises never to go a season with one trusted striker…ever again,

  • Mandy Dodd

    Mad cuff, how do you know how much of that wenger has available for players?

  • AL

    Oh my, seeing some names I had not seen here before, just makes you wonder where they were all along…..

    Regarding the reffing decisions, we are not blaming the ref for the defeat. All we are asking for is equal treatment. Last week Rafael handled in the box against suarez, it was a penalty and a yellow as it was not a goal scoring opportunity. Today we had similar circumstances with different results. Even Graham Poll said noone should have been sent off, as there wasn’t an offence worthy of a sending off. Two weeks back Giroud was shown a yellow for encroaching into the penalty box during a penalty kick, and the penalty was ordered to be retaken. Last week the same ref awarded 3 penalties to liverpool. Each time the penalty was taken players ran into the box, but not one of them was shown a yellow card nor were any of the penalties ordered to be retaken. We can see these inconsistencies by ourselves, nothing deluded about that, and anyone who cant surely lives on a different planet.

  • Florian

    Macduff,

    The reserves are there for a reason. I believe some banks require securities or other values to be available as a contingency backup. So, in a way the cash is there, but not really available. Also, spending the reserves is not a sound policy – the accounts would show that we incur significant losses, so technically we stopped living within our means. Not the Arsenal way, if you ask me 🙂 Cheatski added to a great midfield on which they already spent hundreds of millions, so I wouldn’t call that an improvement. And, they actually added 2 midfielders, each in the region of 20m, one of them being bought back at an inflated price. If I were a manager I’d fire both the guy that let him go in the first place, and the guy that did the buy-back. But that club is an expensive toy, not a healthy institution, so I’d be wary of making such comparisons.

  • dan

    @Mandy

    I hope this Remy deal is just a rumor, I’m sure finalising the Ozil deal Arsenal must of showed him our the future plan. If we are gunning for glory next season Remy would just be an average player, the likes of Chelsea,City even Lfc will not fear.

  • John L

    chelsea net spend since 96: 677 odd million
    arsenal net spend since 96: 57 odd million

    before chelsea got all their money they didnt win anything. then they got the russian money and they have dominated for the past ten years winning an awful lot and spending even more!! no new stadium, no great academy…

    arsenal have a big history, have won things before and will again. since the russian money, we havent won anything, but we have a nice state-of-the-art football stadium that will put us in a commanding position around the top for years to come. as well as a world class academy and training ground….

    question is what happens when the russian money leaves (which it just might sooner then we thought) or the powers that be finally do something about financial doping?

    would you trade 8 or 9 trophy-less years for an infrastructure that will allow your club to compete at the top for another 100 years? i would

  • david fitxh

    I always enjoy reading your stuff on referee’s from what I have read it seems ref’s give their opinion’s rather than follow any set law and this is why you get so much difference between ref’s.The goal scoring one is mostly mentioned by commentators as the last man rule which I do not think exist do you think that football needs to remove opinion and have ref’s follow law more?
    On the red card for Gibbs will they recall it or just transfer it to the Ox just wondered?

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    Can we stop harping on about bad referee decisions, it’s like being back in the school playground. We need to stand up and accept that we’re simply not good enough!

  • Macduff

    @Florian, £25 million in annual operating costs is required as security. Regarding Chelsea’s spending policy, Mourinho identified the area he needed to strengthen, went out and spent the money on the player. Fancy a manager buying what he needs- a concept that is alien to Arsenal fans

  • Macduff

    @dan, but he is french, cheap, average and injured, right up our street

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    We lost 6-0, it would have been the same no matter who was refereeing the game.

  • dan

    @Macduff

    Doubt it, french\cheap\average\injured not what we need.

  • Macduff

    One thing for sure, the next manager will be inheriting a squad with no strikers. We would be better off with a cardboard cutout of John Hawley up front

  • AL

    Too many depressing posts on here,will be back on Tuesday.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Florian…..some interesting points. Also, Stan may not be taking money out of the club, but he may have borrowed against us for other investments, of which he seems to be making many. All quite legal , above board, and,he does not have to tell anyone. Maybe having such reserves makes it cheaper for him to borrow? There have been many conflicting messages coming out of the club on finance.
    All speculation of course, but dein and pat rice recently said things along the lines that wenger has worked miracles…..and these two know exactly what he has been up against if we do not. Also know that Stan is very cautious with the wage bill with his teams, ours has been creeping up, maybe wenger had to ship a lot of players before he could start paying individuals wages that would allow us to compete. Not having a go, maybe Stan is just being a responsible custodian, he is a respected US businessman , not like some, a……..well I will not have myself up for libel….but makes it very hard to compete with some I could mention.
    To close, I quote David Dein, wenger will not be a hard act to follow, he will be an impossible act to follow. David Dein knows even if you happen to think Arsene does not

  • Tone

    I’m just bored of Arsene, aren’t you?

  • Macduff

    Football manager gets seal of approval from his assistant for 16 years and his mate who appointed him. Quel suprise

  • Kos

    Accept the facts we were pathetic, embarrassment and absolute disgrace. To lose is fine but to capitulate like this every single time we play a decent team?

  • Jerry

    Funny how all the negative people come out during a bad loss, but are completely MIA during the games we win. It’s amazing how you guys dismiss facts with statements like getting an incorrect red card has no bearing in the final results of the game. Arsenal was down 1 man (unjustly) against a championship contender Chelsea (that spent 415 million in the last 4 years!), not a mid table team like Hull (who spent only 40 million in those same 4 years).

    And those that claim the call was right in regards to the red card have clearly no common sense, vision problems, or just hate Arsenal at all costs. The media and Graham Poll which both usually hate on Arsenal agree that it was not a sending off based on the rules! Hell even Marriner didn’t see it since he pointed to the corner first!

    To the ones that include the Man City loss, funny how you dismiss the two goals that were incorrectly called offside or that fact that Toure should have been red carded! We’re sorry Arsenal is ruining your lives, just don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    what I keep stumbling on is why the Ox decided to become the keeper in the first place today,its very odd that he would even conceive of doing it outside of the training ground knowing that a red card might come and a penalty.Bizarre! its not like it was the last minute of the game and a do or die situation.
    Whatever is causing the dreamy state of non play at lunchtime games it is worrying.
    Per and Kos were the same against Liverpool, they’re are normally so tight.

  • Jerry

    And to think Arsenal is not capable of a come back against Chelsea with a proper 11 vs 11 is crazy. Just 3 years ago at Stamford Bridge, Arsenal went down twice by a goal, and came back to win 5-3!

  • Sod Gunner

    It alright constantly going on about building for the future but at some stage you have to deliver in the present. We have become complacent with 3rd/4th place. The Arsenal do have a big history but so do lots of club in England and elsewhere. We can all summaries what would happen if city and Chelsea’s sugar daddies get bored and leave them but until that happens it’s only wishful thinking.
    Our failure to be properly drilled and prepared for playing title rivals has nothing to do with their spending powers but our short comings. Also depending on only one striker for the season with no back up comes down to poor planning. Against Munich we sent out an unproven youngster in his first start to lead the line, some tactics no matter what happened after. The Arsenal teams of George Graham and the first 8 years of Arsene Wenger were so well prepared and hard to break down and also had a physical presence that is sadly missing over the past few seasons. Teams were not only intimidated by those Arsenal teams skill and flair but by their physical presence. Those teams didn’t like to get beaten and wouldn’t just sit back and take it.

  • John L

    thank you jerry!

    my thoughts exactly!

  • jitty

    The key point is that the 4th official is running the game, and used TV assistance to make the decision.

    The games are fixed.

  • jitty

    Exactly Jerry!

    The games are jiggered.

    Check out how many penalties Chelsea have been awarded and conceded int the past 2 seasons compared to Arsenal despite their being a relatively small points differential at all times.

    Despite being always a top 4 team Arsenal always conceded more pens than they get.

    Bizzare!

  • pete

    Enough.

    It was awful today. Lots of things wrong. I have played football at a decent level. I am a qualified coach. I have watched around 800 Arsenal games live and many more on TV. I can speculate with the best of them. But it isn’t terribly helpful – and I have no influence at all on team decisions.

    But it would not have been 6-0 without the red card.

    I agree that Liverpool was similarly awful. Man City was very unfortunate, albeit weak defensively. Apart from these games we have shown great consistency this season and are clearly a level above where we were. We currently have 62 points from 30 games – last season we had 73 from 38.

    I find it astonishing that people want to fire Wenger – I read somewhere that he would have to lose the next 100 games for his win ratio to slip back to the next best permanent manager in Arsenal history. Bootomee pointed out in a recent article how his win percentages have slipped very much if at all during his 2nd 500 games.

    Wenger got it wrong today. He admitted he makes mistakes – we all do.

    My personal belief is that by far his biggest failing is not properly addressing our chronic injury malaise. If Ramsey/Wilshere/Ozil/Walcott were all available today we would not have lost 6-0. We might not even have lost at all.

    The true test of any sportsman/sports team is how he/they deal with adversity. So let’s see how they deal with adversity. Let’s see where we finish at the end of the season. Let’s compare this season’s points total with last season’s. Let’s see if we do actually manage to win a trophy. Then we can judge – although, in reality, it would take a couple of seasons of relative decline before we can make a confident adverse judgement. And, as noted, we actually seem to be improving!

    For something as important as a managerial position you MUST look at the long term – not a knee jerk reaction. Is 1 match more important than 999? Is it really?

  • collins Elechi

    @ sod gunner
    Its no use arguing with u on this because u have made up ua mind to sound reasoning and seeing how u cant fire wenger i suggest u start supporting chelsea or any of those shiny teams at least till arsenal come up to ua lofty standards. But until then SOD OFF!

  • hartwick89

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMwHiaOjnoU
    No problems with the red what was chamberlain doing? 3-0 versus 6-0.. Giroud misses a for sure goal within the first minute tough days

  • sperez

    ‘Sperez – surely you know we are only here to torment people like you and for some reason you keep reading.’
    Yes, I can’t get enough. At least until Wenger is gone. Then, you guys here will be supporting him in his next job.
    But for now, let’s just enjoy the circus watching Wenger looks like a complete fool.

  • Sod Gunner

    Collins Elechi
    I am 35 years supporting Arsenal and have been at many games with great highs and lows. I was at anfield 89, Whl 04 to mention some of the real highs and some real lows as well. Is it wrong to expect more from my club when so much potential has been there. If you want to accept second best that fine by me but playing second fiddle to Chelsea chavs isn’t my cup of tea. So I have intention to Sod off

  • bob

    Mandy,
    I agree with all your postings. In their spirit, I offer these thoughts:

    Imo, one way (and not the only way) to love this club, is to not treat this epic defeat in the easy mode of “just a bad day at the office/these things happen”, but to struggle to draw lessons. I am hardly the expert (but don’t see that the experts are doing that great a job, to be honest), but earnestly want to identify some areas for honest discussion.

    For us to thrive, to become a consistent business-end factor in multiple competitions (marks of a big club), some things must be identified and sorted out. If we don’t want that, then fine, there’s nothing to discuss and we just take ’em one at a time and that’s about it. If we want more, then we need to allow that we do have problems; and that that problems are not solved by a wankfest of tribalism.

    As I’ve been seeing it: the one-striker scenario from day 1 was (as many have said all along) an accident waiting to happen, and so it has (- and not only today). Spurning another January window has (predictably) further greased the skids toward a sub-standard finish. Instead, we should use every window to proactively address actual and foreseeable weakness. It seems unhelpful to dismiss these windows as distractions, just because one has to overpay to make headway. Yes, we should be willing to overpay (if we have the money – big secretive if, it still seems) to meet actual needs. To do so is to win, which will then close the gap caused by overpayment.

    We told ourselves hereabouts that we’ve had enough names in the midfield to be set (but no, we haven’t, because so many were injured that what’s left, witness today, are overtaxed): names are a list of names, but not a hard-man deterrent among them; which was oft dismissed as being tactically inconsistent with full frontal Wengerball. Could we not have used that hard-man today? Today as Chelski cut through us like knives through butter.

    Imo, whether we finish at the top or outside the top 4, any one of a series of proactive measures could help us: getting a quality clinical striker and a secondary close-enough to clinical striker (with complementary, but not like-for-like skills); ensure a quality bench in numbers enough to overcome (injury-induced) overuse (several seem tired out); finding pace to burn to replace our (too oft-targeted and too-oft) injured pacey wingers – we are too slow and too narrow sans Walcott; actually mounting a formal case, if not public outcry/call/petition (based on Walter’s and like-minded data), over the disproportionate scale of injuries that we are chronically dealt; pressing openly and in hyper-gear for full video-replay (not settling for a goal-line Hawkeye as anywhere near enough) to bring consistent fairness to the money-curved playing field; demanding more than 17 total referees to loosen Riley’s & his bettors stranglehold; calling out the PGMOL on tolerating/abetting serial fouling practices that are ruining the players that are the fans/ idols and the teams’ business assets; etc.

    That’s about it. I feel gutted and fervently want us to flourish. And also want us to humiliate Mourinho, and every mercenary thing he is and stands for, so help me god. Whether it’s now, or after the season, we need to take a long, hard luck. I think Arsene has meant that this was needed on the injury front, for example. I also think he has been aware of the problem, but also aware that it has not been solved, or even mitigated, and that there must be results, wherever the analysis leads. We also could live in that spirit, out of love for this side and its/our future prospects. This third such lop-sided defeat to the bigs shows us a gap that we can close. It’s past time we did.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Nice post Pete, a.valuable moment of sanity on here. As for the others, get used to it, wenger ain’t going anywhere just yet
    Pete, completely agree with you on injuries. I take the points raised by Walter and others that many of these injuries are due to the kicking our MFs get, but am convinced there is something else going on here, especially since the youngsters never exposed to the wrath of the pgmol seems to suffer similar numbers and similar types of injuries. I really hope they are going to have a good look at this.
    Wenger will stay it seems, there has been a gradual improvement, but he has work to do in the summer, primarily on forwards and injuries, as well as maybe improving tactics against,some,of,the big boys,if we do not have a full strength team. Would also like to see us act quickly over transfers …if possible, to bed new players in properly. Wenger has been great for us, but he can improve on some things, I am sure he will
    A bad day, as a squad, we are not at the level of Chelsea or City, wonder why.
    Could be worse, we could be supporters of a small Middlesex team in some unfortunate parallel existence I guess

  • Florian

    Macduff,

    The 25m are the annual payment, check the public accounts. The contingency is akin to missing out on CL (hear hear Manu). The costs have escalated so freakishly out of control that no prudence is enough. We don’t have the big pockets of the boys in shades of blue, so we’re doing what any responsible man should do for his household – spare money.

    Mandy,

    I believe Stan when he says he doesn’t take money out of the club. From what I could gather until now, he’s content with having the club as an asset, and his goal is to keep it that way. The wage bill is indeed a problem, but doing a bit of back-of-the-envelope calculations, 60m/year more translate into ~30m more to the wage bill, so we could afford to pay 3-4 more players like Ramsey and Ozil from those money. Also, secondary sponsors will come in, allowing for even more expenditure. So, actually, I wouldn’t worry that much about the wage bill. As long as we can keep it at 50-60% the things are under control (funny that statement in this crazy world we live in).

    And FFS stop answering to the trolls!

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    True,-good posts from Pete and bob,voices of reason.

  • Sod Gunner

    No intention to Sod off

  • John L

    well said pete

    i think this team has made leaps and bounds this year.

    another thing that often dismays is how people always seem to overlook the continual development of players. every year some players seem to make huge strides under wenger (i believe more so than any coach in england). think of ramsey, koscielny or song before him. even with out signings i find it very exciting to see how good ramsey, wilshere, AOC, gibbs, gnabry etc can become individually under wengers guidance.

    this seems to be a point that is so often missed in the media and football in general, with so much emphasis put on transfers and immediate success, players have begun to be viewed as fixed objects with defined skills, traits and characteristics. rather than malleable talent, that when focused and applied within the right context can very rapidly become world class.

    this is another area where arsenal are very strong, improving every year, and in the age of FFP (i hope) and a continually inflated transfer market will be the cornerstone for future and sustainable success. arsenal are well ahead of the curve on this in england yet very rarely get the praise…all because of the 8 years argument. However when this team does win a trophy, become winners, i think they will be a force to be reckoned with for years to come and more importantly the club will have a fantastic base and knowledge on which to build.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Agree with your points Bob, I back Wenger to the hilt, but today shows some things need looking at. Injuries are one of them, and treatment from refs and subsequent rotational fouling is another. Agree on your hard man issue, trouble is, we use those tactics, we get cards and wenger will know that. I still would have started this game with Flam, but hindsight and all that. Come to think of it, is there another team on the planet that gets so many red cards that are not dangerous fouls? And that should not have been red today, this ref showed himself as a complete buffoon, not for the first time at that ground. It is frustrating to see wenger constantly do so badly against someone like Jose, but I can only conclude he has to be smarter in dealing with the like. Wenger has so many qualities, but at times, it seems a to take a while for him to learn from what appear to be repeated mistakes. A crumb of comfort…think wenger was both gutted , furious and humiliated today, if there are things that can be improved, today, on top of two similar performances this season may just be the catalyst, as perhaps the injuries this season are possibly a last straw for him and will force him to act in some way.
    It is a strange time, this team as they are now are so different to wenger ball, they have shown their qualities many times this season. We are not at the moment devastating in attack, nor are we dominating MF. Guess that’s what totally injured first choice MF does.
    As for the striker, do not blame him for jan, there was not a lot about, but missing out in the summer is starting to look costly. Just hope this summer we don’t leave things to the last minute. But still, there are things to look forward to this season including a day at wembley in May, and plenty dope reasons to back the team until then. Then, the club have some work to do this summer

  • Mandy Dodd

    Florian, wage bill less of a problem now with increased sponsorship, but was referring more to the last two or three years , when some assume wenger had money to burn but refused to spend. Don’t believe this was the case,at all

  • bjtgooner

    @Mandy

    Fully agree with your post. We will come back stronger after today – horrible day as it has been.

  • Can’t believe some of the comments here, do we support Arsenal or Arsene…..great manager but he has had his day, get Martinez from Everton, we’re standing still as a club while others improve….

  • pete

    John L – yes, really good points about Wenger’s qualities as a developmental coach. Completely agree – his strongest point. Another reason why players we sell usually tend to see performance dips after they move.

    I think if you gave every manager in the country a squad of 18 year olds of similar ability, with no transfers allowed in or out, Wenger’s squad would be far superior 5 or 6 years later.

  • Doanythingformoney

    To Jerry, Kos and all genuine Gunners in fact-
    To be critical constructively is divine but to kick indiscriminately when the Club is down is pathetic.

    Even so, there are a few of us across the websites who- from a coaching perspective- cannot understand what AW is doing with his transfers in. Wengerball is based on short passes sideways or if possible forwards. It demands highly mobile players going both forwards and backwards. It demands the obvious high levels of ‘tekkers’ but also this ability to pass and then find space- continuously. Good examplars need to be fast or quick with endless stamina. Why then would you buy players like Arteta, Cazorla, Podolski and Giroud. They have no pace, no closing down ability and cannot play Wegerball under tough Premier conditions.

    To keep putting the above players in the situations like they were in today or were in at Pool and expecting a result is bizarre.

    Lets be clear- these are very talented players but no other top manager would buy them to do that job going forward or expect a defensive performance from a team containing those four. You would be waiting on a miracle and be waiting a long time. Against teams other than the top 4, like the Totties, you may be lucky but away at difficult places -even at Stoke- nahhh!

    One poster has said several times over the past two years that AW will not win any difficult games away playing Arteta and Santi together in the same team because their lack of mobility would be targeted. So far he has been correct and there are many failures.

    I know there are other issues like Globalists putting pressure on Arsenal, making things difficult via the ‘game managment’ Media etc but AW needs to get more pace and power into the midfield if he wants to compete with the clubs controlled by the Globalists. We need more like Ramsey and the Ox in future.

  • Comedy refereeing but let us not use it to disguise yet another woeful performance by the team in a big game. It makes it hard to see how the team will ever be able to compete with so many games against big teams resulting in thrashings with little concentration, determination or organisation shown. We need to change our approach because what Wenger is doing is not working in the big games. Maybe he needs to swallow his pride and accept his team are inferior and play tight and on the counter against better opposition. To be honest I can’t see Wenger continuing next year and I think that would be the right call.

  • Florian

    Mandy,

    I agree. Even Swiss Ramble found it tough to pinpoint an amount for Arsenal’s cash reserves. That can only indicate that the club was intentionally being unclear in its reports to mask potential difficulties that would have scared off the potential target players and sponsors. Maybe the quote from Sun Tzu applies here: “Make your enemies believe you’re weak when you’re stronger, and make them believe you’re stronger when you’re weak”.

  • MoW

    If he has any class he won’t sign a new contract.

  • pete

    It is absolutely critical for the club’s long term future that he signs.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Could be wrong, but I am convinced he will stay barring something catastrophic.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Pete, do you think there is an issue with these lunchtime kick offs…..and if so would there be any reason for it …or just coincidence?
    Strange, against teams lower than us, we have for the most part been extremely good, but against the EPL big boys, this is the worst I can ever remember under wenger. Maybe they need a sports psychologist

  • pete

    Mandy – all good questions.

    Can’t see why the lunchtime kick-offs should be that much of a factor? As the club travels the night before it should be the same for both teams. The games were all a little different though.

    Against Man City we matched them until they scored. We then worked very hard to get back in the game. Even with 20 to go we had a sniff. And were exceptionally unfortunate with the refereeing decisions.

    Against Liverpool they just ripped us apart. That was worse than today. They could have had more in that first 25 minutes and we had all 11 on the field.

    Against Chelsea we set up very offensively and got punished twice on the counter very early on. The penalty against Ox was a terrible decision by him – probably already phased having been responsible for one of the earlier goals. But not a red. With 10 men we had no chance at all at 3-0 down.

    I think the common themes were:
    1. The opposition pressed us high up the pitch and we made mistakes in possession.
    2. The opposition finishing was clinical (although Liverpool could have had more).

    From our end, the team set ups suggest that Wenger thinks we are more resilient than we really are. But then look how well we performed away to Dortmund and Munich?

    We seem to struggle once we go behind. I have done a quick check of the stats.

    In 30 games, we scored first 20 times, won 18, drew 1 (Everton), lost 1 (Villa).

    In 8 games we conceded first. Won 1 (West Ham), drew 2 and lost 5.

    2 games were 0-0.

    We have scored 53 and conceded 34. Therefore we score the first goal disproportionately often. But our heads seem to go if we concede first. Even against West Ham – who were rubbish – they had a couple of good chances to go 2-up before we turned it round.

    I am not sure about a psychologist – but the squad/coaches need to collectively consider scenarios where we fall behind. We also need to think a little harder about how to play with 10 men – we used to be very good indeed in those scenarios – but perhaps there was more mental strength/confidence with players like Vieira and Henry on the pitch? As much as I detest him, I do admire Mourinho’s decisiveness when things are not working. He will make immediate tactical and personnel changes to try to fix. Wenger almost never makes a change until 70 minutes even if things aren’t working.

    As for today, I was concerned at the selection. Although we beat the Totts I thought we played very poorly with the ball. I was particularly disappointed with Podolski in that game. I would have had Flamini and Arteta in centre mid, Rosicky ahead of them, Cazorla left and Ox right (and – to be fair to myself – I did tell someone pre-match that that was what I wanted to do – not just hindsight). I would also have started the game more cautiously. Chelsea are an exceptionally hard team to come from behind against. The longer the game would have remained 0-0 the more the pressure would have impacted them. We could have ramped things up in the last quarter.

    Where do we go from here? I think Wenger will think harder about his set up against the top teams in future. On the assumption we don’t resolve the injury situation (I’m not confident), I think we need to add a couple of good players to the squad – even with players injured we still need to be able to rotate. In all positions other than centre-back and GK anyway. Wenger seems to purposely run with a smaller squad than the likes of MC and Chelsea. With CL commitments that just doesn’t work. The issue then is that you are paying good money to players who may sit on the bench (or even in the stand) all season. Not good for them or the club’s bank balance. MC and Chelsea seem to avoid most of the disruption that can result by paying their reserves stupid amounts of money that we can’t afford.

    It will be interesting to see how Liverpool cope in the CL next season. They will either have to significantly increase their squad size or face a poor League season.

    So, why have we done so poorly away from home against the top 3? Paradoxically, I think it is because we ARE better than we were and Wenger felt we could go toe-to-toe with them rather than trying to sneak a point. I think we will be better again next season – but still think we should proceed with caution at the top opposition grounds. And the first goal is absolutely critical in these matches.

  • Kos

    Well done to all the Arsenal players to day, you gave your manager one hell of a present on his 1000th game, specialist in failure I can’t think WHY!!!!

  • marcus

    It was a sloppy start, with two expert finishes punishing AFC very severely. The only problem for AFC was that Giroud apparently missed a sitter.

    At 2-1 after 15 minutes it would have been game on, in spite of the woeful start….

    but the OX went mad, and that was that.

    Mad Ox Disease seemed to have gripped the officials too…

    Tinker Taylor Soldier Marriner ….

    Giroud, a good player, but somehow not quite good enough for a top top team?

  • Mandy Dodd

    Thanks for imparting your knowledge on this Pete, a very interesting read. I agree, think we will be better next season, and agree, wenger needs to trust a bit more in rotation. Really hope he does alter the way we play the top boys, this sort of thing can be damaging for morale, for players, fans, and wenger defenders who are pissed off he seems to make a point of making the likes of Jose look even better than he is.
    I now believe wenger will sign, and that will be for the best, but wonder if he will be incentivised, or pressured to try and deal with what are now clear failings. Note what you are saying about sorting injuries….worrying, injuries seem to be the number one risk to this team succeeding.
    But, we need to recover quickly, Everton look a bit ominous, think they have a relatively easy run of fixtures, and play us at home. Should we lose top four status, I would fear the worst, so let’s hope they make sure that does not happen….and let’s get Ramsey back

  • Pat

    Here they all are – the most contributions to discussion for ages – after a bad loss.

    Not here supporting the team and enjoying themselves when we win.

    Strange kind of support!

    True, there is a pattern in these big lunch time losses, but I don’t know what’s causing it and nor do any of the rest of you. It can’t obviously simply be the manager as he has had a very good season on the whole, topping the premiership for ages, and all the analysis of his many years here only proves what a marvellous record he has.

    I know it is tempting to speculate, but is it helpful? Somebody advances a theory without having any factual basis for it, and suddenly everybody starts discussing it as if it was fact. Like those points made by the Dutch coach which Walter so ably dealt with in a previous article.

    So glad the away fans stayed solid. We just need to do the same.

  • Hey everyone, I love this website I am no longer watching football any more. Really am sick and tired of this shit. Somehow only affects us, I was at the gym at the time it was 2-0 then the penalty and sending off. I was about to go home and watch the match. It got to what is the point? I seem to be shouting at the TV every time I watch arsenal at refs superb decisions.

    Now I wonder how the hell does Wenger deal with all this shit! When he is like 100 times more intelligent than me and I think alot but he must be feeling immense amount of pain and injustice!

    Thanks you all for the beautiful truths and showing I am not the only one who sees this bullshit. Hell I can smell it now…

    Thank you all for the write ups it was a pleasure! I am going to find a kipper and slap punch face moreentheho.

  • pete

    Pat – Indeed. But much of the comment volume has come from names I don’t recognise – in fact many I have never seen before. At one point I was about to post “Dear Doomers – can we have our blog back please?”.

    The whole point of sport as an entertainment IS that it is unpredictable. If I wanted a predictable outcome I would go to the theatre or the cinema – where it is the same every time. Today was a perfect storm: We were dreadful, Chelsea were good, the ref had a stinker and we didn’t get the run of the ball (e.g. the first goal – Szcz got a finger to it – but just no quite enough). It happens.

    But we desperately need some of those injured midfielders back PDQ.

  • WalterBroeckx

    I can’t understand that people do not see that the wrong sending off had no impact on the final score?
    The rules are clear only if you prevent a goal or clear goal scoring chance you can get a red card. The ball WAS GOING WIDE before The Ox made his handball. Penalty definitely but never a red card.

    The red card made it impossible for us to come back or reduce the scoreline. So it did impact on the scoreline not on the possible loss of 3 points

  • WalterBroeckx

    And we gave away 3 goals to them. That has nothing to do with tactics. That are individual errors that were punished each time. Sometimes they don’t get punished but the quality of the finishing from Chelsea was exceptional.
    Shit happens.

  • Mandy Dodd

    The ref certainly affected the score, and worryingly, GD could be important for us in the bigger scheme of things. I have felt more critical than usual of the performance today, but after events this season, Marriner should be under serious manners if he is to ref at Chelsea again. He did not cost us the points, but he did not help. Really hope the club ask for the recordings of his contact with officials, to see the role of the 4th official. In a fair world, Ox may even be spared a ban, but in the EPL, guess we will have to live without yet another MF for another game. As I said earlier, we must have the most red cards for non violent offences going

  • DevilDriver

    CLOUDS OVER CALIFORNIA; CLOUDS OVER ARSENE.

    It’s been nearly half a day since the devastating thumping by Mourinho’s Russian Mafia.

    BFG offered much positive words pre-match, as did Arsene but it was all rhetoric in the end.

    I am a bit dizzy still; I cannot retain the logic as to how we just capitulate close to regular in situations like this. The players must be as dizzy and as shellshocked. Mentally its a killer; for me and the players too?

    ManC, Liverpool and now Chelski.

    Yes, yes, yes; In Arsene We Trust, Wengers Knows etc etc…. But how can this happen? How? But it has happened. We need to move on quick..Tuesday. 7 nil thumping of the Swans – who beat us last season at home.

    As somebody said earlier in the replies: Arsene……Numbered Days.

    Finally, I am going support the team more than I ever have now – b’coz they need our support. If we do not support them more than ever – we can forget the FA CUP, because the players are gonna be so so so so nervous and may end up bottleing it. They do not believe enuff, they do not have the faith in themselves or Le Boss.

    But I say Arsenal Forever: Keep The Faith. Lets get that monkey off our backs..win the silverware and look to the future, with or without Le Boss.

    DevilDriver Holding back the day.

  • bob

    “I think we need to add a couple of good players to the squad – even with players injured we still need to be able to rotate. In all positions other than centre-back and GK anyway.”
    pete,
    Yes, exactly. And this has been evident since the summer, and not in hindsight. The intended orcshite and refshite were inevitable, and have been season after season. The intent to fight on multiple cups into the business end alone would stretch any club that was undermanned. Again, evident since the summer. And the potential for any January window to enable us to bolster the squad which was then spurned because the injured were always supposed to be returning, when most of the time they returned later than expected, at which time someone else was injured. There is something awry when the chronic optimism that dissuades from purchases continues to trump the chronic injuries that mandates purchases for ensurance and rotation (for an ambitious club).

  • @Walter , the sending off had an impact on the final score but not the result. We were 3-0 down regardless of whether a player was sent off or not and we had started the game so poorly that it is not realistic to think we could have come back into it. We were terrible. This one is not about the ref, it is about a terrible team selection by Wenger, very poor tactics and players who just were not up for the challenge. It is the same on most occassions we find ourselves facing a big match.

  • bob

    Walter,
    Yes, it impacted the score: a 3-0 score might not have become 6-0. But in all honesty, from the players that we had out there today, and from what you saw to that point, where was our offensive firepower going to come from on this day? This is what’s troubling. And, from the players that we had out there, and from what you witnessed, where was the defense against further scoring going to come from? Imo, that’s why people aren’t really focusing on the impact of the sending off on the final score. That doesn’t seem to matter much in light of the bigger troubling picture.

    What matters emotionally is that – on a day where AW deserved so much better – our lads and his squad are not matching up to this $cumbag and his $quad. This miscreant anti-AW makes it very personal with AW. And, imo, it needn’t have and should not have worked out that way. This is more than Arsenal isn’t for the faint of heart and the rest of the useless cliches. Something real needs to be done.

  • bob

    For AW to be subjected to choruses of “specialist in failure” on this special day for a special man can only serve one purpose: if the team has character, the character of its coach, it should take this sadistic spectacle very personally, to each and every player, and transform it into a vow to refuse to lose another point. That will/should be a test of character. There’s redemption to be had. Will we make it ours?

  • Jerry

    The ref decision killed this game. Marriner apologized after for sending the wrong player off, but he should apologize for sending a player off due getting bullied by Chelsea players! He was an inept and coward ref today.
    Arsenal had opportunities at 11 vs 11, but were unlucky. I’m sure the team will regroup and bounce right back until the end of the season.
    This team needs support from the fans to bounce back positively, not this negativism from the fans.
    The first 3 goals all due to individual errors. They’ll pick themselves up and will react to end the season.

    As for, why didn’t Arsene buy so and so crowd. Can you guys give it a break? Every team always complains they need 1 more player, Even that smug bastard Mourinho says his team needs 1 more striker (as spending over 400 million last 4 years wasn’t enough). If the players aren’t available like this winter, no point in screaming like little kids that we need a player.
    All of the PL striker transfers this winter:
    West Ham Marco Borriello (31 yo)
    Fulham – Mitroglou
    Newcastle Luuk de Jong
    Sunderland- Ignacio Scocco
    Hull – Jelavic & Shane Long

    None of those players would be considered good enough for this Arsenal team, so who exactly was Arsenal supposed to get? They can’t just create new strikers like in the football manager/playstation games

  • bob

    Jerry,
    The single-striker issue didn’t start in January.

  • Gianni Dioro

    The penalty and sending off incident was bizarre. It was bizarre because neither the ref nor the linesman seemed to have seen the infraction. It is more likely that Mourinho had the 4th official, Anthony Taylor, tell the ref, Andre Mariner, that it was a penalty and sending off.

  • Jerry

    @Bob, It kind of actually did start in January when Walcott got injured again after getting hurt in September. There is another good and complimentary striker to play alongside Giroud. You also remember Podolski is also there. Last season, 16 goals were scored each by Walcott (14 in PL) and Podolski (11 in PL). The problem we had was no ref protection resulting in Arsenal players getting kicked to bits until they get injured. None of these other title contenders have 3 great players hurt at the same time (Ramsey, Walcott, and Ozil). That is almost 1/3 of the expected starting lineup out. Maybe the refs just don’t like Arsene or Arsenal because they don’t pay for ref vacations like Mourinho did.

  • Linz

    How to batter Arsenal by Pellegrini,Rodgers and Mourinho.Press Arsenal high up the pitch and wait for them to give away the ball, which someone will inevitably do as Arsenal players are not as technically gifted as Wenger likes to think..Run in behind the defence which only has the snail like Arteta “protecting” it.The full backs will be half way up the pitch and the players on the flanks don’t bother tracking back so it is easy to get behind the lumbering Mertesacker and be one on one with the keeper.As Arsenal have no pace upfront or on the flanks there is no need to worry about a quick counter.Wenger will always set his team up like this being obsessed with the 2008 Barca passing game complete with midget midfielders,a style of play that is completely outdated.Result,a confidence boosting hammering of one of your supposed title rivals. One more thing.Why have Cazorla,Rosicky and Mertesacker been given new contracts? What exactly have they done to deserve a payrise? Ridiculous.Brenden Rodgers putting Wenger to shame with his brilliant exciting football.And they are not an oil club.What will you say if they win the league? I thought only sugardaddy clubs could win the Title?.

  • Persian Gunner

    Bob
    very true mate! live your last comment

  • Persian Gunner

    it’s the second day and it still hurts sooooooooo bad
    It’s the PTSD situation here, with flash backs of the nightmare

  • Rupert Cook

    pete
    March 22, 2014 at 10:17 pm
    It is absolutely critical for the club’s long term future that he signs.

    Why?

  • Brickfields Gunners

    There are very often many ‘Johnnys -come-latelys ‘ when we suffer a setback and the patten is repeated again here.
    I for one do not believe they are Arsenal fans .
    Probably of others clubs who have come here to just gloat and rub it in.
    Well , bad news guys – it ain’t working.
    We AKBs are in it for the long haul.And in case you don’t get it,
    we know that Arsenal Know Best as well !
    Thanks to John L and the other regulars who keep it real and give hope and solace to us all.You guys rock !
    I have moved on, after a good night’s sleep and am waiting for Tuesday’s game to set right yesterday’s bump .
    Up the Gunners !

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Why ? Why ? Tell me why?

    Why do we press harder on a remote control when we know the batteries are flat?

    Why do banks charge a fee on “insufficient funds” when they know there is not enough?

    Why does someone believe you when you say there are four billion stars, but check when you say the paint is wet?

    Why do Kamikaze pilots wear helmets?

    What is the speed of darkness?

    Are there specially reserved parking spaces for “normal” people at the Special Olympics?

    If it’s true that we are here to help others, what are the others doing here?

    Do married people live longer than single ones or does it only seem longer?

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Did you ever stop and wonder……

    Who was the first person to look at a cow and say, “I think I’ll squeeze these pink dangly things here, and drink whatever comes out?”

    Who was the first person to say, “See that chicken there… I’m gonna eat the next thing that comes outta it’s bum.”

    Why do people point to their wrist when asking for the time, but don’t point to their bum when they ask where the toilet is?

    Why does your Obstetrician, Gynaecologist or Proctologist leave the room when you get undressed if they are going to look up there anyway ?

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Simple questions for the AAAA –

    Do illiterate people get the full effect of Alphabet Soup?

    Does pushing the elevator button more than once make it arrive faster?

  • STEVE VALLINS

    I stopped watching after 10 minutes and had to endure a run of text messages for the rest of game.I know its not easy to forget what went on before the first 2 goals but were’nt they really well taken goals,very difficult to get back into the game at that point against any team but chelsea never

  • pete

    Jerry – I have not heard anywhere that Mourinho pays for ref vacations??

    Rupert – How long do you have?!

    A very few reasons why Wenger should sign a new contract:

    – He has consistently over-achieved against the benchmark of transfer fees/wages compared to other clubs and managers. Enormously so in the first half of his tenure with the doubles, unbeaten season. Less so in the second half – but still significantly over-achieved with no transfer budget, the advent of Chelsea and Man City etc.
    – This has allowed us to build and partially pay for our new stadium. Although the significant outstanding debt needs to be factored into any business plan. We are not out of the woods yet.
    – All the players are there because of him and are, presumably, personally loyal. Players at merry-go-round clubs are used to different faces in the dug out – not at Arsenal. This is particularly so for players who have come through the ranks.
    – There will be a significant attritional cost of change whoever comes in in terms of playing style, ethos, squad changes etc. See Man Utd.
    – Wenger is a man of integrity.
    – There is a high likelihood that whoever comes in will simply not be as good (see first point). Of the 150 (or whatever it is) managers that Wenger has played against in the PL I would really only rank Ferguson and Mourinho at or in excess of his level. You might be able to make a case for a couple more (Benitez? Ancelotti?) but not many. Look at the mess Tottenham keep getting themselves into!

    And, on a personal level, I enjoy watching the football that Wenger’s teams play.

  • para

    I would really like to get the frequency of the radios the refs use, maybe it should be open for everyone to hear if needed, like in this instance? Sometimes i get the impression that the real ruler of the game is not on the pitch at all, and instructions are sent by radio.

    This game was so irreal, i sat there watching in a daze, wondering if this was deja vu, and i was surprisingly calm after it finished, the kind of calm that is punching a hole in your chest.
    The ref situation is going from bad to worse, and i wonder how bad it needs to get in order for change to happen?

    One thing i can say now though, we have to be on TOP FORM to ride out the coming attacks in the run to the end of the season, for there is no way Arsenal is going to be allowed to win anything easy(as easy as the invincibles did) again.

    When the team finally shrugs off the disappointment that they are not playing on a level field, and turn that into energy for the battle, they will have turned another corner.

  • pete

    The other thing that annoys me is the focus on whatever is wrong – not what is right.

    Yes, we have collapsed away to the other top 3 clubs. But…

    – We have only conceded one goal IN TOTAL at home against Chelsea, Liverpool, Tottenham, Everton and Man Utd.

    – We have won all but one match against teams in the bottom half. That is a really incredible achievement!

    – We have won 18 of 20 times in matches where we scored the 1st goal. In fact, we have only NOT won having taken the lead, against Everton, Aston Villa and Southampton. Compared to the finger-nail biting of previous years that is amazing.

    So we have fixed several problems which Wenger-bashers have been moaning about for years. Against that, we have collapsed three times away to top rivals.

    The one problem we have NOT fixed is injuries. If you take Walcott, Ramsey, Ozil and Wilshere out of the equation struggle is inevitable.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Jose paying for Holidays for refs, here it is Pete

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/referee-mark-halsey-hits-back-following-criticism-over-autobiography-8822853.html

    Ok they guy and his wife had cancer, if Jose wanted to do something he should have given to a cancer charity. Like many things in the world of refs, the whole thing stinks

  • Kos

    Before they were down to ten men, they were losing by two goals and facing a penalty kick. The loss of a man was only mitigation for the margin of defeat, but not the performance, which smacked of an overpampered spiritless bunch that simply did not care. They should be ashamed of themselves and have a whip round to refund the price of the tickets for every away fan that was unfortunate enough to have witnessed that shocker.I perceive Arseblog as a fairly glass half full website, very forgiving of the board and the manager. However, here are some excerpts from the site’s liveblog on the game, I assume written by Arseblogger himself, Andrew Mangan (certainly the style looks like the great man):Giroud runs at the Chelsea defence, resembling a two legged zebra chasing after lions that have scoffed his hindquarters.He had all the grace and poise of a retarded dolphin on land who had just been given rohypnol down his blow spoutGiroud tries to chip Cech from halfway, but unlike his late night hotel room shenanigans, his effort is limp5-0Giroud felled, waggles his fingers as he tumbles like a giant oakActually, for Tuesday’s game, I’d think about playing a treeThere is literally nothing in the rules against itArsene could go down to the garden centre, pick out a cherry blossom or a japanese birch and stick it up front against Swansea.Chelsea 6-0.I don’t know what else to say hereunquestionably one of the worst performances and results everI wish this was just overEmbarrassing, pathetic displayGiroud loses it on halfway like a f***ing pub player

  • Mike T

    For obvious reasons I wont make a lot of comment about the game but having read all of the comments my gold star goes to Mandy because where we sit in SB she in effect was repeating what we were saying. That was that the 1000 game thing had been the focus as opposed to facing Chelsea.

    You were missing a significant number of first choice players. Having said that I did scratch my head a little when I saw the players AW started with. I scratched my head even more when AW used his last substitutes at half time. Ok it didn’t happen but had you had a further injury you would have been down to 9

    I don’t know whether to applaud or again scratch my head as to how you approached the game from 3 down. Was it a valiant attempt to salvage something out of the game or was it a naïve response? Most if not all clubs would have set up damage limitation tactics for the chances of you coming back from 3 down were slim.

    When the players shook hands before the game the difference between the players size was stark. We had at least 7 players over 6 foot whereas you didn’t. Your quality , skilful but small midfielders didn’t get started and that’s something you really cant afford to let happen again for looking at your run in you have some really hard games and although you probably have enough in the bank already Everton will fancy chasing you down for that CL place

  • bob

    pete,
    I love AW and do want him to stay. That said, I question two of your grounds for defending him as not being as potent as you do:
    1) “Although the significant outstanding debt needs to be factored into any business plan. We are not out of the woods yet.”
    pete, Do you know how much is still owed and its impact? If so, where’s the source? My point here is that you seem to be invoking an old mantra that the club itself has put in the past tense. Unless you do know otherwise, it seems to me that you are (for the sake of today’s argument) trying to have it both ways: we are rich, but we are poor compared to the really rich oilers. And therefore, can always be excused for losing a match to them. To me, pete, this means there is never accounta- bility. Never a flaw to recognize that AFC/AW can then correct. If you really believe this (the implications of your argument here), then it does not help us to develop further by addressing our flaws. That’s where tribalism (the perfect) gets in the way of improvement (the good). Loving this team is also loving it enough to ask and care for why/where/how to improve it. And I want it to happen under AW, as long as he wants the job. He didn’t appear at the press conference for the first time in his career with us, and I am beyond eager to hear his assessment, beyond his self- assessment of taking responsibility (according to some accounts) for the loss. It’s time to move on to Swansea, but not to care enough to simultaneously take stock (as AW is doing, and has been doing with the injury inquiry) is not helpful in my view.

    2) “- All the players are there because of him and are, presumably, personally loyal.”
    pete, this is a big presumption. How can we believe in today’s football that a contract is a contract and that all those whom we presumed were loyal – the ones AW nurtured and that we fans have loved – were actually loyal. This presumption is also tribalist and loyal to a fault. But one hardly has to re-cite the career moves of cesc, rvp, nasri, etc. etc. to punch a hole in your argument here. And, not (yet?) returning Sagna’s loyalty when we can afford to do so does not speak in superlatives about the club’s loyalty to our best players going beyond business decisions.

    pete, that’s about it. I have reasons to love and defend and want AW to be at the helm; but I don’t subscribe to a defense based on these two reasons that you invoke above. That said, I’m glued to the broadcast on Tuesday and cheering us on.

  • Micheal Ram

    If all of us agree on Arsene knows best, then these idiots have nothing to say. Clearly, the players shot themselves in the face with this type of performance. Ox was horrible in the first 15mins but fantastic for the next 20mins. But if Arsene picked Flamini and still lose, people will go haywire about Ox exclusion. Chelsea had a prefect game. Obviously, this game means more to Mourinho than anybody else as he went great lengths to achieve it. He played four aggresive central defenders in a home game for gods sake. Arteta needed more protection and Giroud wasnt ruthless enough. If you fellas think Arsene intended this, watch his reaction after Chelsea scored the second. He was so disgusted that he threw his water bottle away without any emotion. I have not seen him like this before. My heart just sank. Truly sad for him. Now, the players owe him big time and lets see how they are gonna repay him back. They better do. I have a very close friend in Barcelona and there is a strong rumour the Catalan club is gonna offer Arsene something very tempting next season. You fellas better be careful what you wish for, people.

  • Who gives a shit about what Wenger and his teams have ever achieved when they just lost 6-0 to Chelsea?

    My feelings are hurt by the loss and a couple more like that this season.

    Wenger needs to resign and NOW.

    (I can see why people post crap like this. It’s easy and self gratifying 🙂 )

  • Brickfields Gunners

    NO BOOTOOMEE , NOT YOU TOOOO !
    TIS THE END OF THE WORLD I SAY !
    GOD WHY DO YOU DO THIS TO ME ?
    ISN’T LIFE WRETCHED ENOUGH FOR ME , FOR YOU TO COMPOUND IT FURTHER ?
    WOE IS ME !

    Wow that really was good ! Is it the same at those AAAA websites ! They must have all creamed in their pants with all that wanking !
    How do they remove semen residue from computer screens ,keyboards , mouses and desks ? Is there a site dedicated for such advice and for FAQs ?
    Just asking out aloud .

  • pete

    Bob,

    Sorry about delay in replying – real life intruded…

    1. Outstanding stadium debt is over £200mm (Swiss Ramble). Cash reserves cover a fair chunk of this but still a way to go. I believe a chunk of the debt is tied up in long term bonds – so need to maintain a cash reserve to cover this. Sorry – haven’t got time to do proper analysis on the numbers. Our operating profit was approximately flat as of last season. As new deals kick in we should start to move in the right direction. So can expand expenditure on the football side (fees and wages). Which means we can improve the squad. But it is not to the level of the oilers. Maybe we can buy (net) one Ozil a year, not 2 or 3. So – yes – we can now start spending some money but still not to the same level as our immediate competition.

    I completely agree – and have said – that Saturday was a dreadful failure. And Wenger is accountable – probably for both poor tactics and for not addressing our injury problems leaving us undermanned at a critical time of the season. These are serious failings. However I still believe they are far more than outweighed by his strengths, principally player development and outperforming where we should be each season. Including, so far, this one.

    2. I shouldn’t generalise. But I believe our players are, on average, more loyal to the club and manager than, for most clubs – all else being equal. But they are not equal, we are deficient to several in the area of wages and trophies (related…). But a new manager doesn’t fix and may not fix the latter.

    Wenger is still – looking forwards – the best bet for me. By some margin.

  • Rupert Cook

    @Pete, Ok, thanks for that. I think you make some valid points. I have doubts about Wenger’s tactics and why he sometimes seems to ignore our needs like a better striker than Giroud and also why we apparently do have a good financial foundation and yet are reluctant to spend. I have heard from a reliable source that Wenger has very few targets and within that narrow span of targets he never ventures beyond it, rather no player if he can’t get the first, second or third choice. Maybe this isn’t terrible but perhaps it is a little limiting.

    Anyway a win over Swansea is essential to avoid our noses getting dipped in hot toffee!

  • Pete

    Rupert – thanks. We almost agree!

    The thing about not spending all available money immediately is strange to me. It is still there for following transfer windows! Wenger has a very long term outlook. Can be frustrating in the short term though…

    I think our friends down the road have demonstrated the folly of spending all your available funds immediately. I acknowledge that they are not in the more relatively comfortable position of occupying a CL place – but they have speculated to accumulate and failed spectacularly. But then most people with football knowledge could see that integrating 7 new players in one go is very hard. If MU go down the same route this summer they may struggle next season too (you read it here first)…

  • Rupert Cook

    @Pete, I think AW is secretly saving up to buy Messi!

  • Pete

    @Rupert – would be nice… although have heard his ego is the size of a planet (apparently even more so than for Ronaldo). Not the most popular player in the Barca changing room. Shows how appearances can be deceptive!

  • Nick Lee

    “..I have a very close friend in Barcelona and there is a strong rumour the Catalan club is gonna offer Arsene something very tempting next season. You fellas better be careful what you wish for, people.”

    What can Arsene bring to the table?
    Firstly, Barcelona live and breathe trophies, not 4th placing. Financials is secondary.

    Secondly, the players are all multiple trophy winners, league, CL, super club and for some, even world cup winners. Pep resign and went into hiatus for a year and came back as Bayern manager. In the interview on his Barca departure, he said he cannot motivate them anymore.
    And not forgetting Pep left on the high. So u folks think Arsene can motivate these players?

    Thirdly, the fans. Well they are definitely not Untold.

    Fourthly, Arsene will not get this grip and control on the club. And worst, he will be held accountable. Shit, that a sin to even suggest in Arsenal.

    Lastly, Arsene is shrewd. Why all this stress when he can have control, no accountability, Untold fans and more. Oh, and paid this ridiculously huge salary and play god.

  • Nick Lee,

    I reckon your only knowledge of football and its entire history is limited to happenings since 2006. It wasn’t Untold regulars who voted Arsene as the coach of the decade. It was his peers who I’m pretty sure are much more knowledgeable than you on footballing matters.

  • Nick Lee

    Bootoomee

    I live for the future. You are entitled to live in the past. To each his own.

  • Nick Lee,

    “I live for the future”

    And your have the nerve to call others deluded? Are those trophies that you were referring to on behalf of Barcelona and its players won in the future?

  • Damilare

    Yes, I knew it. Despite all the negativities spewed on here since the match ended, the Untold Arsenal site is still up and running.

    Please reserve the rest (mockery, destructive criticism, bile, abuses etc) untill the next Arsenal defeat.

    Afterall the man that is responsible has claimed it and rightly so. Arsene Wenger, I just love his personality.

    Thanks to all who support the team in bad times and thanks to ‘our friends, non existing part of our fans, the AAA and others like them’ for their ususal treat. As from today I like to refer to them as sand papers. They may bruise us painfully now and in the process we get smoother and when all is said and done, the sand papers are thrown out. I thank them.

    Focus on match 10001.

    COYG

  • Damilare

    And my thoughts and prayers go to the families and loved-ones of all on board the ill-fated Malaysian Airline flight 370. A few Arsenal fans may have been on board. Losing 6-0 to chelski is the least of their priorities now (if ever they would be aware).

    COYG

  • Asif

    Sorry old timers for my absence…am currently in the UK and if anything, blame it on me for bringing bad luck to the team. Could not be more hurt but then I am an Untolder and in times like these, my faith in the manager and the team gets reinforced as overcoming your worst failures is what sports teaches us and no one would have been feeling more hurt than AW himself…COYG…I am not giving up on the team yet…We just lost 3 points big deal! That smirk of Moaninho would be wiped for good sooner than later…!!!

  • James

    You said in your article that Torres cost more than the whole Arsenal team. That’s wrong, he cost £50m, but the Arsenal team cost £109,000,000. May I point out it’s difficult to trust the motive of a website that makes lazy and false statements instead of presenting the facts.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Thank you James. So as you know it better could you give us the amount for each player that started the match? After all you know it.

  • Walter,

    Hope you are not holding your breath.

  • Mike T

    Walter & Bootomee

    As James hasn’t replied

    Arsenals team , that started is reported to have cost £98,800,000

    Szczeney & Gibbs cost nothing.

    Mertasacker & Koscieiny each cost £10 million.

    Sagna £6 million.

    Rosicky £6,800,000.

    Poldolski & Poldolski each cost £11 million,

    Giroud £13 million

    Oxlaide-Chamberlain £12 million

    Cazorla £20 million

    The Cheslsea team that started cost £155,750,000 (remember Torres didn’t start)

  • Mike T

    Terry & Eto cost nothing

    Cahill, Azpilicueta & Cech cost £7 million each

    Ivanovic cost £9 million

    Schurle cost £18 million

    Matic ££22,700,000

    Oscar £25 million

    Luiz £26,000,000

    Hazard £32 million

  • James

    Szczesny £0
    Sagna £7,450,000
    Mertesacker £9,000,000
    Kos £8,450,000
    Gibbs £0
    Rosi £6,800,000
    Arteta £10,000,000
    Pod £10,900,000
    Alex £12,000,000
    Santi £17,300,000
    Giroud £13,000,000

    Fab £2,000,000
    Verm £10,000,000
    Jenk £1,000,000
    Flam £0
    Kalls £0
    Sano £500,000
    Gnab £100,000
    £108,500,000

  • WalterBroeckx

    Over to you MIke T as James calculated the bench in to his numbers 😉

    By the way amazing that our subs cost the combined sum of £13.600.000 as one sub of Chelsea cost £50.000.000

  • Mike T

    @ Walter

    Lampard £11 million
    Torres £50 million
    Mikel £16 million
    Ba £7,500,000
    Schwaer nil
    Kalas £5,200,000
    Salah £11 million
    £100,750,000