Arsenal News
Arsenal News & Transfers
As featured on NewsNow: Arsenal newsArsenal News 24/7

Arsenal News, Only Arsenal, Blogs, Transfer News

Archives

November 2017
M T W T F S S
« Oct    
 12345
6789101112
13141516171819
20212223242526
27282930  

Is Van the man worse than Moyes with the boys. And wither Arsenal?

By Tony Attwood

You have to feel sorry for Manchester United.

No, sorry, I’ll start again.  It is remarkably easy to laugh at Manchester United.  Since the 1950s they were the richest team in England, but could never quite match Arsenal’s longevity in the first division what with their little sojourn into division 2 in 1974/5.

Indeed it is interesting to remember the start to their life in the second division that season when their fans took the East End apart before during and after the match against Orient.

Today things are not quite so rosy, after what has of course been a stunning run of success.  And to think that Sir F Word was only half an hour from getting the sack at Man U on 7 January 1990, but a lucky turn around in a cup match saved him.  (He was indeed sacked by St Mirren previously which is why I’ve always quite liked the Buddies).

So they (Man U not St Mirren) have had their run and now they languish – at least for a little while – mid-table, and it is a reminder that success has to be earned.   Arsenal of course have been in even worse straits – flirting with relegation under Leslie Knighton and Bertie Mee and having our record run of seven consecutive defeats under Terry Neill (starting 12 February 1977) Although to be fair to him, Herbert Chapman took us through a run of six consecutive defeats, and we still quite relish his memory.

So as those people who don’t like Mr Wenger take breath ready for their next half-baked onslaught, we might wonder what on earth they might do if, when Mr Wenger finally does retire, we get another manager who instead of giving the dream of total supremacy (which the various clubs involved in the approach have funded by selling vampires, gas and oil) follow the Man U approach to managerial succession.

For as the newspapers are slowly understanding, thus far Van Gaal is proving to be both a less successful and more expensive manager than David Moyes.  Indeed after five games last year Moyes and the boys had seven points.  This season van the man has five.  So if that was doom and gloom then, what is it now?  If that was an adjustment this is reconstruction.  If that was remedial, this is open heart surgery.

The reason (and of course this is just my view as an eternal Arsenal supporter) that the club is in such a mess is that Sir F Word threw everything into that final championship, with no thought for the future beyond that.  And that I think is where Arsenal is so different.  As I suspect we shall see tonight, we have one of the strongest youth arrays coming through that we have had for years.

One interesting point is that although Arsenal have spent a fair chunk of money this summer, that is nothing like Van Gaal has spent.

Now I know that some anti-Wengerians suggested that he should have been booted out and vG should have been given the job, and allowed to spend, oh how much?, what shall we say? £160m to spend on on the “desperately needed” six new players.  And that was needed because after the summer transfers one year ago Moyes had spent £28m.  ( It was not until he paid £39m for Juan Mata that his spend went up.)

Over £230m spent in three transfer windows for a mid-table position.  Which suggests to me that spending is not the automatic answer.  You see, in my old fashioned way, I think you need to spend on the right people at the right time to fit in with the team.  But of course when it comes to nay-sayers, one should never let reality get in the way of prejudice.

Of course Tyler Blackett might be a great player in the future.  He has come up through the ranks having been at the club since the age of nine, and despite all the money he spent vG used him against Leicester, without much effect, one might say.  Maybe vG and Blackett were unlucky.  We’ll see.

And Man U need to see something – such as where the ball is – because so far they have let in 11 goals, including those involved in going out of the league cup at the first move.  Thus far under Moyes’ Boys they had let in four by this stage.

So what does vG do now – and I ask not because I am fixated on Man U (although someone is bound to write in and say I am, just as I am supposedly fixated on Tottenham, Liverpool, Man C, Everton….) but because I am fascinated in this attempt to put into practice what the AAA want done at Arsenal.

The next move could be to drop Rooney.   Van Persie (who has said once again that he was betrayed by Sir F who lied to him about the fact that he – Sir F – would not be resigning) is also wondering about his future.

But then it is also the defence that seems to be the problem.  “No leadership, no discipline, and no top-class players” as one reviewer wrote – and he was being positive.

Meanwhile the old blogs chug along, holding back fractionally for a day or so on their rampant anti-Wengerian jibes – which are hard to maintain in the face of being unbeaten in the last 10 league games, having the second best attack in the league, despite having a new line up, and despite being without Theo and losing our main striker, and having the fourth best defence in the league…

OK I know that is a cut and paste from a couple of articles ago, but I quite liked that set of stats  I can do them as bullet points too.  Look…

  • Unbeaten in the last 10 league games,
  • second best attack in the league,
  • fourth best defence in the league
  • despite being without Theo
  • despite not having our main striker,
  • and with the fourth best defence in the league

So the blogs go back to what they normally do.  The transfers.  Here are two headlines from this morning.

Arsenal have reportedly agreed a deal with Real Madrid to sign up Sami Khedira.

and

Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger has hinted at a stunning move for PSG star Edinson Cavani.

It’s almost as if the transfer window never closed.

Meanwhile tonight we might see some of the players that Arsenal has in reserve.

Final thought – if you ever take a gander at the home page of Untold you’ll know that we run the anniversaries section there each day.   There’s now over 5000 entries in our files – the biggest compilation of anniversaries ever accumulated for Arsenal.

But I’d like to highlight just a few from today, because today as we prepare to play a league cup match against Southampton, today is the anniversary of the match in 2008 when Arsenal’s youth team beat Sheffield Utd 6-0.

It is also the anniversary of the signing of Ian Wright and of the first goals for Bergkamp.

A large number of the anniversaries on the Untold Arsenal home page each day have links to detailed articles from the blog of the Arsenal History Society.

There is also the regular pre-match look back to other involvements with Southampton in the late summer

Hope you find it interesting.

If you have been, thanks for reading.

46 comments to Is Van the man worse than Moyes with the boys. And wither Arsenal?

  • Florian

    A saying from my country goes like this (in an approximate translation): “You sleep the way you get your bed ready”. The way I see it, there always comes a moment when payback is due. Even if it were only about the game 50, and it’s still worth it. I guess karma’s a bitch. Can’t wait for the moment our attack will tear them to shreds, and our defense rises a dam in front of the slipping ones. The broken legs deserve it.

  • A very enjoyable read. I love see in Manure wallow and I love your double summary of all that’s great about Arsenal at the moment.

  • WalterBroeckx

    I think that Wenger would never do what SAF did and put all his money on a final title and then leave the club in misery. I think Wenger is way to much a real gentleman to do this.
    I have the feeling that SAF wanted the managers that came behind him to fail to come out as an even bigger manager (look what I have achieved and the others couldn’t)

    I think Wenger would want the manager that comes behind him to succeed. Because for him it will be important to be able to say: look what a great squad and club I left behind.

  • apo Armani

    Great read!!!

    I will adopt your ‘Sir F Word’ and say not only did he go and leave the club who worshiped him deep in cr@p, he also took away all the sly/corrupt methods and pressures he put on various areas of the FA and Ref Association – something that I tried for several years to remind a few ManU buddies now, because I used to tell them; the day will come when he hangs up his bacon face and all that goes with it…shame on this Sir title!!!

  • apo Armani

    on BBS$ite: Phil Neville: ‘Manchester United are ‘£100m off winning title’ hahahahahahahahahaha

  • Yiannis

    Good post Tony. LvG was the man of the summer for BBC, Sky, Eurosport etc. They were praising him as if he was a God. So biased when it comes to ManU. There was a day that 5 out of the 10 top sports stories on Eurosport dealt with ManU. Pathetic!

    Today it’s an excellent opportunity for our young gunners! My hopes lie with Bellerin, Hayden and Coquelin in view of first team backline shortages.

  • colario

    It is I believe generally accepted that a player form another league needs a season to adjust to the Premier league. That being so why not for managers?

    Van Gaal himself has said it will take about 20 games to turn things round.

    I am glad manure I where they are and I hope they go further down.

    However I think it best to wait to the result of game 37 before commenting on manure.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    This article made me laugh and apo Armani’s comment about Neville’s statement , pushed me over the edge !
    Remember the old adage about keeping up with the Joneses ? Well here’s a tale where the both get fucked ! And for different reasons .

    Jones and his wife are having hard financial times, so they decide that she’ll become a hooker.

    She’s not quite sure what to do, so Jones says, ‘Stand in front of that bar and pick up a guy. Tell him a hundred bucks. If you’ve got a question, I’ll be parked around the corner.’

    She’s out there five minutes when a guy pulls up and asks, ‘How much?’

    She says, ‘A hundred dollars’.

    He says, ‘Sh*t. All I’ve got is thirty’.

    She says, ‘Hold on.’

    She runs back to Jones and says, ‘What can he get for thirty dollars?’ Jones says, ‘A hand job’.

    She runs back and tells the guy all he gets for thirty dollars is a hand job.

    He says, ‘Okay’.

    She gets in the car; he unzips his pants and out pops a simply HUGE male unit. She stares at it for a minute, and then says, ‘I’ll be right back.’

    She runs back around the corner and says breathlessly, ‘Jones, can you lend this guy seventy bucks?’

  • esxste

    Phil Neville: ‘Manchester United are ‘£100m off winning title’

    I think this just goes to show how much money has corrupted football. It’s not “Man Utd are 3 star players from the Title”… just money. Spend £100m to win. It’s not just idiotic bloggers and ‘fans’ that think spending some “f–king” money is all that’s required to bring success.

  • apo Armani

    @Brickfields Gunners
    September 23, 2014 at 10:27 am

    and I am now in stitches with that!!! hahahahahahahaha

  • Mandy Dodd

    Early days, but the signs not good for VG, wondering if he is sroting up more problems than he will be able to handle – and upsetting a few players as he goes along? Not all players have always taken to this manager.
    Think you are right about the short termism of Fergie, but all the support he got from elsewhere meant he didnt really have to build for the long term towards the end. Think they need Riley to step in!
    On what I have seen on AAA forums, there was a lot of love and envy over VG this summer. As there once was for Moyes, and even Arry when the Spuds had that whatever point lead over us. But, now all the AAA love seems directed at Chelsea. Nothing if not fickle , some of our supporters

  • nicky

    @apo Armani,
    Your 9.59 hit the nail right on the top of the head. A great summing up of the corruption and vicious intimidation that Ferguson employed to obtain success.
    It’s a pity that the law doesn’t allow the creep to be brought to justice.

  • Daniel

    Excellent post Tony
    I think we are in a world where things are not put in perspective,and people feel money is the solution to all problems.uniteds business in the last 2 transfer was a typical example of that.besides blind who the jury is still outbon, can’t really say the bought well.carvalho,man gala and a good winger would have improved them.

  • apo Armani

    @nicky
    September 23, 2014 at 10:38 am

    Thanks!!

    As for the law and on corruption in football; some of those ‘heavyweights’ at FIFA who were handing out other people money – didn’t quite expect or plan to have to deal with what they are going to have to do now!!!

    With enough evidence; it wouldn’t be too late for Sir F Word to go to the gallows!!

  • ARSENAL 13

    Herez the conv. I had with a friend, a ManUtd friend. After their 5-3.

    Me: ManUtd ditched continuity in search of 20th title, this was coming. Since 2009.
    SAF ignored it in hunt for glory.

    Him: Let’s not hurt the great man.
    He’s gone. He’s lead this team since god knows how long
    Kept em in line.

    Me: But no questions. He was a master tactician.

    Him: There was a diff aura around him.

    Me: He made Ashley Young look world class.
    Hahahahahahahaha

    Then came the silence.

    ManUtd fans don’t or will never accept that their lord put them in hell they are in now. Its all Moyes’s doing.

    Was wondering if ManUtd fail to qualify for the CL this season, will the Adidas deal stand?? There must be some clause hidden somewhere. Their summer spending suggests that there is much to lose for them if they fail to….

  • finsbury

    BBC Disinformation watch:

    What gibberish have the state broadcaster had to say about Arsenal Football Club today? Well take your pick, from Steve Claridge attempting to give Arsene Wenger coaching tips (don’t laugh, it’s cruel) to the following snippet which caught my eye:

    “16 March 2013. Over a year and a half ago.
    That was the last time Arsenal midfielder Abou Diaby appeared in a competitive game for the Gunners. The lesser-spotted Frenchman will however make his return against Southampton tonight…”

    So: not only is the “can’t beat big teams” meme an outright lie when we look at last season, as has been the “Wenger won’t spend” meme which they have pushed like some kind of, well, pusher, for years, but the above is also completely inaccurate. Because Diaby played at the end of last season.

    In their haste to heckle the club and attempt to ridicule this player who they refer to as “the Frenchman” (in case you had forgotten) they completely expose their bias, ignorance and xeno-centeric inspired stupidity. Alan Partdrige eat your heart out!

    No wonder the Bleeb plundit and failed coach Phil Neville and ex-Manc is advising a club to “Spend spend spend” whilst trying to keep it’s “British Core”, just a few dayside or weeks after they sold Welbeck to the Arsenal!

    Comedy. Gold.

  • Tom

    I think some people on here need to realize that Man U and LVG are only doing what a club in Man United’s position in a world football needs to be doing.

    Spending lots of money to get themselves to be competitive again is the quickest way to be successful , as their cross town rivals Man City have proved. And it’s their own money they are spending isn’t it ?
    Funds they have generated through their domestic and international success.

    ‘Spend only what you earn’ – isn’t it what’s been advertised on here ?

    You don’t really expect LVG to come in and start promoting from within United youth system , when their commercial operations bring in about £150 M more per season than ours, do you?

    Now I personally couldn’t care less if LVG succeeds or not as he has done nothing to hurt Arsenal which is the only club in England I care about , as opposed to Ferguson who manipulated the PGMOL for his and United’s gain.

    Only now we see what a better than average club can do when they don’t get a call or two, which was the norm under Ferguson’s reign.

    Yes, United have spent more than anyone else this season , but they still have glaring needs , especially on defense. They haven’t replaced players like Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra, who apart from Rooney were the heart and soul of their team.

    They have planty to offer going forward but they are top heavy and very thin on defense. In some ways kind of like Arsenal , many great attacking options going forward but lacking in some other areas.
    A team out of balance so to speak.

    Mr. Wenger made a comment that he had about ten players who’s prefered position was in the middle of the park and some thought it was funny, but it’s not really.

    LVG has been only in charge for one Transfer Window and as they say ‘Rome wasn’t built in a day’ , but I wonder what Arsenal’s excuse might be.

  • jayramfootball

    Tony, you can’t have it both ways. You have complained on one hand about City and Cheslea spending as the reason we can’t compete for the title and now are saying that spending is not the answer. I actually agree with your latest point – spending money does not guarantee success and it is completely possible to finish above a club who spends more. Tactics, teamwork, mentality the right players as opposed to the most expensive ones. These are the ingredients of a successful team, not the transfer fees or the wages. Of course there are different levels of investment that get a club into the top flight but after that I see no difference really in a player that costs £80m vs one that costs £15m. Most of the extra £65m is to do with PR and a short term run of form coupled with stupid money being involved in football.

    As for Utd – the elephant in the room that the media do not want to talk about is HOW Ferguson won all his trophies. Neither Moyes or LVG are getting the same decisions Ferguson teams got. We know that ‘Sir Alex’ had the mobile numbers of referees and exchanged texts, we know that referees went to him to sort out issues. I had a chuckle at the penalty conceded to Leicester… There is simply NO WAY that Utd would have conceded that had ferguson been in charge. It is my string belief that Utd would have won nothing – or very little – had Ferguson not been in charge.

  • apo Armani

    @Tom
    September 23, 2014 at 12:11 pm

    My general interpretation of whats been written here on Untold about MUs’ spending is that it has nothing to do with whether its within their means or not (which of course they may well be working within their generated income), but its to do with the general anti-Arsenal bleating of how if we (Arsenal) were to spend…we would have success!!! If MU have success with their last two summers’ spending…then please don’t mind if I keep what I have 🙂

    As for what you write about Ferguson: 100% SPOT ON!

  • menace

    @finsbury following Bricks wonderful Jones’s story from now on use the phrase ‘lend ’em 70 bucks’ when the likes of Claridge , Neville, Owen etc. spout their bile.

    In fact I think Walter could have a column where the crud could be listed under the title ‘Lend ’em $70′.

  • finsbury

    Marcus, I’ll have to go back and check that story!

  • bob mac

    Van Gaal and Moyes suffer from the same inability. That of being totally unable to count.

    It is surely reasonable, whatever tactics or formation is used, that you must have a numerical match up in your defensive organisation.

    Most teams are able to do this, but occasionally come unstuck against a fast counter attack.

    In Utd’s case they constantly play 4 players in MF (either a diamond or flat 4),their wide players do not tuck in to defend.

    Again, most modern teams use 3 central MF, all with a specific defensive responsibility.

    Hence Utd get over-run, especially against a good passing team.

    And they say Arsene Wenger does not do tactics/coaching.

    Get real.

  • ARSENAL 13

    Guys, can you suggest a good stream. Outside Europe ie. Want to watch the game…

  • Brickfields Gunners

    How to keep the lie going ….and damn the facts !

    http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2014-09-21/

  • jambug

    jayram

    I have seen that possible contradiction as well, but I think if you look deeper it is still credible.

    No, Spending enormous amounts of money doesn’t necessarily buy you instant success.

    This was proved by Spurs last year and may be re enforced by Liverpool and United this year.

    But what we are talking about in these cases is massive ‘short term’ spending.

    When it comes to the oilers we have a different scenario all together.

    These Clubs spent 100’s of millions over a period of 5 to 10 years at an average of a net spend of £50 Million per season. And that’s the difference.

    You mark my words if United spend another £50 Million on the defence in January and another £50 in the Summer they WILL get back to the top.

    The question though is will they? Can they?

    Same with Spurs. If they could of spent another 50/100 Million this Summer they almost certainly would be in a title fight.

    Liverpool? Another £100 Million in Jan/Summer?

    The point is money DOES buy you success but it has to either be spent well, or at least better than has been by the afore mentioned, or it has to be spent in VAST VAST quantities.

    That is why it is still going to be tough for us. Yes we have spent big but relative to City, Chelsea and United, not big at all.

  • colario

    Manure have the cash to splash. The Glaziers have seen to that. They can’t afford the team to fail on the pitch because if the team fails so do the Glaziers.

    When Sir F took over manure it was a midtable team going no where fast as we know. Who ever is the manager today can’t be given the ‘five year luxury’ that he was given back then.

    I think it is possible that LVG will turn things round and as I have said above perhaps best not to ‘point the finger of failure -scorn’ till after the result of game 37.

    If LVG is sacked for having failed this season, to whom do manure turn to?

  • JohnW

    Any way, for me Tony, I say may ManU’s problems continue. They made us suffer under Sir F, so may be its their turn. We will see. As for Southampton, 1-0 to Arsenal I will take. We need the cup atleast for now in order to keep our fringe players fit. Would like to see Akpom and Bellerin again.

  • apo Armani

    Some people would argue that breaking records when doing whatever they do is an achievement – I note both Moyes and even in his now short time at the same club VG; have managed to break a number of records!!

  • Pete

    As we all (should) know it takes time to integrate a number of new players. That, with a new manager and a new system mean that it may be a while before MU start to gel – but I am suspect they will do so at some point through the season. We just need to make sure that they are disappearing over the horizon from our rear view mirror.

  • jambug

    Writing Man Utds obituary is premature.

    They have got a decent set of players if not team at the moment, and okay they are short of quality defensively.

    But they will score plenty and they will get better defensively.

    So make no mistake they will be a threat to the top 4 this year. That being said I do believe there era of domination is well and truly over.

  • omgarsenal

    Tom……..Arsenal’s excuse for what?

  • omgarsenal

    Actually Arsenal are going through somewhat the same experience as United, we are integrating 4-5 new faces into a team that performed well last season and at the same time dealing with serious injuries to starting players. However, LVG is not familiar with the EPL and he is finding out what it is like to be screwed by the PGMOL,something we know all too well. I don’t believe for a minute that United will continue in this vein….wither they’ll get their act together or LVG will do a Moyes and lose his job before things get worse.
    Arsenal and Wenger have work to do BUT they also have a fair bit of leeway, United, after their big spend, don’t….but the major difference is that they’ll still be the darlings of the media and we will still be media targets, regardless of what happens on the field.

  • wengerson

    @ Tom (12:11)

    “I think some people on here need to realize that Man U and LVG are only doing what a club in Man United’s position in a world football needs to be doing.”
    Im sure that was the consensus in spurs boardrooms just before they splashed all that bale money…

    “Spending lots of money to get themselves to be competitive again is the quickest way to be successful , as their cross town rivals Man City have proved.”
    What exactly do you mean by “successful”? Is it the trophies? In that case, it would be interesting to see how much man city have spent, since the sheik money, against trophies won.

    “And it’s their own money they are spending isn’t it ?”
    You missed the point of the article completely!

    “You don’t really expect LVG to come in and start promoting from within United youth system…”
    No, but the foundation should have been laid by predecessors (ie fergurson), which is what this article is highlighting.

    Now I personally couldn’t care less if LVG succeeds or not as he has done nothing to hurt Arsenal which is the only club in England I care about , as opposed to Ferguson who manipulated the PGMOL for his and United’s gain.

    Only now we see what a better than average club can do when they don’t get a call or two, which was the norm under Ferguson’s reign.

    “They have planty to offer going forward but they are top heavy and very thin on defense. In some ways kind of like Arsenal…”
    Something tells me your whole comment was a built up to this

    “Mr. Wenger made a comment that he had about ten players who’s prefered position was in the middle of the park and some thought it was funny, but it’s not really.”
    I guess this is your proof that we are “a team out of balance”…

    “LVG has been only in charge for one Transfer Window and as they say ‘Rome wasn’t built in a day’ , but I wonder what Arsenal’s excuse might be.”
    I wonder what your excuse might be for posting on a pro Arsenal blog

  • @Tom September 23, 2014 at 12:11 pm
    LVG has been only in charge for one Transfer Window and as they say ‘Rome wasn’t built in a day’

    It was already Rome, ManU won 13/22 Barclays premier league title, are you saying Rome can be destroyed in one summer after its greatest emperor left.

    On What Arsenal would do If AW decides to call it a day, I hope we promote from within, considering the club structure allows all our teams from youth to first team play “the arsenal way”, someone from within can come in and take the team further for years.

  • soglorious

    Nice write up Tony. I just want Van Gaal to fail not because of his stupid formation but because it will prove that Moyes was not the reason for United’s downfall last season. I hate it when people blame Moyes for Ferguson’s actions.

  • mika

    The fact that the effin cheaters ended our unbeaten run I would be delighted if they sank into oblivion like Leeds. I have no sympathy for thier predicament and despite not being a massive wenger fan (lately) the way he was treated over there by their fans was scandalous. Bunch of overpaid primadonas led by their captain, who by the way gets his agent to get him a py rise when the going gets tough.

  • Tom

    Wengerson

    ‘ “I think some people on here need to realize that Man U and LVG are only doing what a club in Man United’s position in a world football needs to be doing.”
    Im sure that was the consensus in spurs boardrooms just before they splashed all that bale money…’

    Forgive me for not addressing your response to my post point by point because just on the bases of your first paragraph , I realize that would be a massive waste of my time.

    Man United have been the most successful club in the PL in the last 20 years or so, and they have been a money making juggernaut consistently placing in the top three richest clubs in the world, and you compare them to Tottenham?

  • apo Armani

    @Tom

    “Man United have been the most successful” CHEATING “club in the PL in the last 20 years or so” MORE LIKE IT!!! Give us a break!!!

  • apo Armani

    @Tom again,
    If you are going to blow MU’s TRUMPET here, then I don’t know who is a waste of time!

  • Tom

    apo Armani

    Relax my friend. I am not ‘ Blowing Man U’ s trumpet’ on here , and I agree with you completely that SAF had way too much influence on the English game, some of which might’ve been illegal if the allegations of his phoning PL referees are true.

    As I stated before I couldn’t care less what MU or LVG do or don’t do.
    The point of my original post was that spending big is the only thing a club like MU can do to get back to where they think they need to be.

    As a matter of fact one could make an argument that MU they failed to recognize early enough where they needed to spend even when SAF was still their manager, but as stated before because of all the PGMOL help he was getting , those deficiencies were not as glaring as they normally would’ve been.

    In a way his leaving the club was more detrimental to MU successful transition than any other manager leaving any other club.

    1. Ferguson was a special manager in his own right with great tactical and motivational skills.

    2. He was getting decisions no other club was getting.

    3.He was presiding over an aging team in a need of serious overhaul .

    4. His departure was not planned ( as far as I know) and it seems most of his players didn’t expect it.

    That’s a quadruple whammy!

    To compare, if Mr. Wenger decided to step down , Arsenal’s ‘luck’ with referees would probably only improve or stayed the same and Arsenal are only a player or two away( in my opinion) from amassing a real challenge for the title, whereas MU are miles away.

  • finsbury

    Whatever happened to that charming “turd” Oldgroaner? 😉

  • apo Armani

    Tom
    September 23, 2014 at 4:34 pm

    OMG…thanks for that mate…I was starting to look behind me 🙂 glad we are on the same page in most parts of what you write…especially your clarification on Sir F Word 🙂

  • Gunner6

    @ Tom

    Looks like you are more than prepared to give Manure the benefit of doubt and time to rise again. Whereas your tone is more along the lines of contempt towards Wenger. Why is that?

    You brought forward the excuse for manure that Rome wasn’t build in a day. Yet, sarcastically dismiss Arsenal who has been trying to build a team capable of qualifying for CL while servicing a huge loan in economically bleak time.

    I don’t remember the club using the debt as an excuse to not winning the EPL/CL. I believe this was more the more educated supporters argument. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong someone.

    Wenger have always kept faith in his squad publicly that they are good enough for challenge for EPL/CL. Privately, who knows. It could be that his realistic target is to maintain their top 4 position.

    Even if the debt was used by the club as an excuse, it is a tangible excuse. The future of the club eclipse all trophy in my eyes, not speaking for the other Gooners.

    Once you slip out of the top 4 it is not easy for the players as well as financially for the club. Look at clubs who have flirted in and out of the top 4. Liverpool is an example. They have admitted that the shorter resting period has done them in this time. And we haven’t even touch on the financial implications yet.

    I have no problems with how Arsenal were managed in the last 10 years or so. I wanted the 4th place trophy more than the two Cups. Yes, I celebrated every CL qualification like a trophy. And why not? I am sure Manure supporters would gladly accept this if they were handed 4th place now.

    The club has sailed through the tough times and hopefully into better times ahead. Supporters like you make me despair. Instead of trying to find excuse for other clubs, why don’t you support this club. Criticize if you have to, but please, don’t make excuses for the others.

    As I mentioned before, how can anyone think Wenger is clueless when he has consistently kept the club in the top 4. Once or twice you can call it fluke, but he has done it throughout his tenure, so give credit where credit is due. Support the players and the manager. Raise the optimism. What good is pessimism?

  • Wengerson

    @ Tom (13:24)

    “Forgive me for not addressing your response to my post point by point…”
    Apology not accepted

    ” … I realize that would be a massive waste of my time.”
    Yet you find time to defend man united!

    “Man United have been the most successful club in the PL in the last 20 years or so…”
    Even YOU agree their 20 year reign is tainted by the PGMOL influence

    “… and you compare them to Tottenham?”
    Yes I do! Context: they, like spurs, just spent sh*tloads of money on a lot of players, and expecting them to gel right away. I guess that’s your recipe for success

  • AB

    Finsbury he probably got fed up of being abused it’s a National curse and a crying shame .

  • Chapman's Ghost

    @Tom, decent post. I appreciate what you say about LVG and perhaps some should be careful about writing off Manu’s chances. There is unbalance in their team and I agree there is a little in ours too, though not glaringly like Manu.

    I’m not sure how anyone can seriously compare Tottenham to Manu. As Manu have shown if they want to get in the top four they can coax players of the calibre of Falcao and DiMaria to come to them even without CL football. They’ve spent well over 100 million, Tottenham couldn’t do that. And neither could Tottenham attract stars of that calibre because they have no CL pedigree. Yes they spent a lot of money but none of those players they bought last season was of the same calibre of Manu’s purchases.

    As for building Rome in a day I take Gunner 6’s point. We have had to pay off a stadium so the progress has been slow, the Coliseum has nearly been paid off and now we have to keep the vestal virgins happy (those fans who want us to win the CL). I’d like to have won a few more trophies, fourth be damned, but have to concede that if we hadn’t attained fourth or higher over the last ten seasons we might not be in the position we are now. I expect Wenger’s plans to come to fruition in the next two seasons, a CL or league trophy should be possible if all goes well, but nothing is definite in this world. Anyway I believe Wenger has a target for his final season and that’s CL success. Will he do it? I hope so.