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March 2018
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Asking for the Daniel Levy approach to management is a sign of insanity

By Tony Attwood

Steve McManaman is hardly a person who would make my Xmas card list but I have to say that his dealing of the banner that half a dozen AAA had brought with them and snuck into the WBA game, was very good.   He pointed out the sheer utter lunacy of what that bunch were doing very clearly, with heart-felt emotion, with honesty, (“As you know I am no Arsenal supporter…”) and for once I thought, here is a pundit who speaks out, analyses logically and is his own man.   If Keown had said it, we would have felt he was reflecting his natural Arsenal feelings.   McManaman saying it was a refreshing step.

“Arsène, thanks for the memories, but it’s time to say goodbye” was what it said,  Mr Wenger got it right too.  He said, “I don’t comment on that.”

Such an event overshadowed the key issue of the match – Monreal, Gibbs and the Ox all suffering further injuries.   Just how much more of this can we take?

The big plus was that Santi Cazorla has played himself back into form.  From a period when his shooting could end up here there and everywhere but the goal, suddenly he was back on target, playing the perfect passes and knowing that his is an utterly ambidextrous talent.  OK he’s still not scoring, but his passing is back and his shots are much more on target. It’s a great sign.

So what of the banner?

The notion that the Daniel Levy approach to dealing with managers is one that Arsenal should adopt could only have come from the AAA.   Let’s change because everything is not how we want it at the moment, without any thought of who might or might not come in instead and whether the process works.  Yes managers leave when they retire or have had enough, but just sacking them for winning the FA Cup and getting into the knock out stages of the CL for 15 years… no that is daft.

The fact that it fails has been shown by just how many times Levy has tried the trick and failed to get the result.  This earlier article gives a clue in case you have forgotten how often it has been tried.

But we don’t just have to look at the Tiny Totts.  Why not consider other clubs in the league, like Man U who chose exactly the man they wanted, placed him in the job, and then had to pay him a fortune to leave, and start all over again.   Of course the maniacs will say well yes, it worked, they are above us in the league, and they beat us, but if you are going to consider a manager based on the last few weeks, I would suggest we should part company here.

Or we might try to look at Liverpool with their arrogance, and willingness to buy any player going, and their almighty windfall of having Barcelona give them such a mega profit on Suarez.   Since 2010 it has been Benitez, Hodgson, Dalgleish and Rodgers, and a lot of talk of moving on Rodgers.

For Man C we have Pearce, Eriksson, Hughes, Mancini, Kidd, Pelligrini, plus for quite a bit of time all the money you can imagine and no FFP to stop you.  Yes they won the league, but with that much money so they should.

Chelsea have the same – all the money in the world and Grant, Scolari, Wilkins, Hiddink, Ancelloti, Villa-Boas, Di Matteo, Benitez, Mourinho.  OK they are flying away at the top of the league, but that ever revolving door has involved the club in pay out to ex-managers since Mourinho quit the first time which would eat up about a quarter of Arsenal’s budget for players.  And yes they have had success – but I would say that is the money, not the managerial revolving doors.  And if it is the revolving door that works, look how often they have to do it to get it right.

Money can buy a certain amount of success, true, but of course that is now getting much harder to organise since FFP came along.  The Premier League FFP seems to have gone quiet, but the European version affects the top five or six, so it is a restriction now.

There is also the fact that changing managers like this is not part of the Arsenal tradition, and I would argue that when you buy into Arsenal as a supporter you buy into tradition.  The issue with Rioch was an exception, not the rule – look at our managerial history and you will see.

Changing managers is not of itself a guaranteed way to get more success.   Indeed it is more likely to bring failure than success and to lead the board to become like drunken gamblers always having one more throw of the dice to try and find the lucky numbers.

At least 13 Premier League managers were sacked last season – I lost count part way through – and at the very least you can see at once that 12 of those sackings much have been failures.  Did it help them?

And all this is before we get to the issue of whether the man we want actually…

a) wants to leave his club

b) isn’t holding out for the unlimited offshore personal income that Real Mad, Barcelona, PSG, Monaco, Zenit, Man C and Chelsea could offer

c) fancies facing up to the AAA – something that is not experienced in most other clubs but has been part of Arsenal at least since 1930.

d) recognises that there are only three major competitions to win each year and there is no guarantee of winning any of them – and if they don’t the AAA will be onto them

e) there is the level of injuries caused by refs not stopping insane tackles and the extraordinary actions of the PGMO vis a vis Arsenal

f) doing better than 15 years in the knock out stages of the Champions League and winning the FA Cup is a starting point.

Quite simply, I can’t imagine who we are going to get when the time comes, which is why I am in favour of that time being now.

Untold Index



134 comments to Asking for the Daniel Levy approach to management is a sign of insanity

  • Philbet

    I am afraid I am in the “Wenger out” camp now, because the quicker he goes the quicker we can start a “next Arsenal manager out” campaign, Some will moan whatever, the rest of us just have to get on with being real supporters and doing our (little), bit to help.

  • JohnShaft

    Bt and Stevie Mac could have ignored i but they didnt, they pushed the message and it got through to its intended target, as well as every major news outlet, and you are dedicating an article about it here. So you would have to say successful initial campaign for the dissenters.

  • AB

    It’s academic as stated before he has a contract and he will see it out , I think he should, and then its decision time. Owner likes the money he makes , I doubt he has any great feelings for Arsenal

  • AB

    If form stays patchy and the number of dissenters on the terraces grows , different ball game

  • andy bishop

    Arsenal will never adopt the revolving door policy for managers. Should Wenger leave at the end of this year or his contract term its hardly “a quick turnover” is it. Nothing is forever. Wenger it seems in some quarters is a victim of his own success. Top four, knock out stages of the champions league and maybe a cup run is what you get. For the vast majority of clubs this is success big time. For whatever reasons he cannot take us back to the pinnacle he achieved in his first few years. The game has learnt from him and moved on.

  • Neal

    He’s taken us as far as he can.

  • franck

    Wenger Till he drops Dead……then we bury him at the clock end…….i dont want anyother Manager.

  • 4evered

    I was very saddened to see Arsene having to answer questions about the banner and although I have said previously that i think it may get to the stage where a change would be good for him as much as the club – I really believe our owner has a lot to answer for , he appears to have no sporting ambition for the club and does not understand (or does not care) about the unique circumstances and sporting traditions that exsist in Football .
    As he is not a fan he naturally only appears to look at the team in terms of a business proposition and the £3million he took out of the club for giving us “advice” did feel, although strictly legal a sign that he does not have the same motivation as a traditional fan/owner .
    I feel he has at times been happy to allow the manager to take all the flak for the perception that the club lacks ambition and by not coming out and explaining his position on certain issues he has played a large part in the current fan divisions .
    For me he does not feel part of the club , just someone who will make decisions based on a set of criteria which are not necessarily motivated by a desire for sporting success .

  • Will

    The problem is, these Anti-Wengerites are small picture thinkers.

    They don’t see that in his early days, Wenger went against one of the biggest and richest clubs in the world and raised the bar and they have not seen that he is going against two teams who can lose £100m a season in buying players and seeing if they work.

    It’s like mocking Jones the butcher for not selling as many pork chops as Tesco’s.

    What they need to see if, he has built a world class training ground that is constantly being updated and he has built for me, the premiser club ground in the country and one of the 10 ten sports grounds in the world. On top of that, he has qualified for the CL more times than any other manager and seen off how many?

    All while effectively having one hand tied behind his back by the financial dopers and let’s be honest, the FA and their minions.

    I asked a few days ago and didn’t get an answer. If not Wenger, then who?

  • bjtgooner

    A sensible article Tony.

    This morning I just had time to see a little of the Sunday Supplement – with the delightful Neil Ashton, Matt Dickinson (Times), Jeremy Wilson (Telegraph) and Antony Kastrinakis (Sun). I did not see all the discussion, but the references to Arsenal were once again designed to undermine and cause dissension among the fans – the main culprit being the unshaven scruffy Kastrinakis (who has anti Arsenal history):-

    The “gang of four” discussed yesterday’s AAAA banner – such unnecessary publicity will no doubt encourage more of the same. As we have concluded in earlier discussions, the media and their selective biased reporting are a major part of the part of the anti Arsenal movement. This morning’s distasteful program was just a small example of their antics.

  • I recall when the verdict was “Wenger will never win Arsenal another trophy”. Now, after winning 2 in a year, the goal post has been moved to “he cannot take us back to the pinnacle he achieved in his first few years”.

    All that I am grateful for is that his ACTUAL employers are not myopic emotion-driven men.

  • Jayramfootball

    I think Wenger will leave at the end of the year. It’s gone too far now. There are just too many that want change and short of winning the league or champions league I think it will be another season where the relationship between the fans and Wenger degrades further. Sad in many ways, but it is what it is.
    In terms of the banner I totally disagree with any fan bringing such a banner to the game. I fail to see how that in any way helps the team. I suspect the perps were in fact media plants and BT Sport were fully involved. They seemed to give more airtime to it than the match!

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    Untold Moan dukebox…

    Moan over darling (Doris Day)
    Moanin’ (Art Blakey)
    moaning on over (Hank Williams)
    I did it moan way (Frank Sinatra)
    Moanarchy for the UK (sex pistols)
    Moan Town ( the Specials)
    Dont moan back in angora ( Eddie Wood and the plan 9 sphyncter beings from outer space)
    Moaning and groaning (Duane Eddie)
    Suite moany blue eyes, (Crosby , Stills, Nash and Willie Young)
    Moaner from the black leather lagoon( the cramps)
    Moaning hell, its Fred Titmus( Half man Half Biscuit)

    + the whole back catalogue from the Smiths/ Morrissey.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Stick and stones , SI !
    Banners , black scarves , bulling posts and blogs, NON !

  • Will

    Also, we have moved from 9 years without a trophy to worst start in 32 years. They are a joke.

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    “Moanin dukebox” was supposed to go on the 0-1 WBA thread.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    When asked what Rodgers should do righten Liverpuddle , our ‘local’ pundit said , “He should spend more money !”,
    But added , “He should also sell those ‘deadwood’ players ,(all of whom that he bought !), in January !”

    My excuse for listening to this crap ? I was watching something else and just switch back on to be bushwhacked by this expert logic !
    MUTE – is my favourite button !

  • Jayramfootball,

    Nice to see you here again. Are you taking a break from posting comments wishing Arsenal heavy losses at other Internet sewers?

    “In terms of the banner I totally disagree with any fan bringing such a banner to the game. I fail to see how that in any way helps the team. I suspect the perps were in fact media plants and BT Sport were fully involved.”

    You are so full of shit dude. The people displaying banners demanding Wenger out are a million times better than weasels who post crap like this about their club:

    Jayramfootball: “…a meaningless victory giving Wenger another reason to believe his bs”

    jayramfootball: “We need to lose this game (v Dortmund at the Emirates)”

    We now know who you really are!

  • You can check see more from jayramfootball here:

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Man’s best friends –

  • ARSENAL 13

    what does this “sporting ambition” mean?

    Kroenke has invested in our club. Hez given us stability by having a majority. He has not tinkered with day to day running of the club. He has given enough powers to the CEO to make decisions for the better of the club. What else should he do???

    If doing a Roman/Levy is called an ambitious ownership, then lets have a un-ambitious owner.

    Banner holding Desperadoes. They are a waste of space within the stadium. There are many willing to take their space and support the players and the management staff. We should start a massive Wenger support group, in all major social media forums. Our voices should be louder. Should show our might…..

  • Those were from a game we won. I shudder at the thought of what he must have been posting as we lost Man United.

  • Alex

    Same here, I was saddened to see Wenger answer this question.

    The loss at the hands of the manure wasn’t an easy for many I guess and I don’t think going to be forgotten easily.

    Managerial change is inevitable. One way or another is going to happen. No one can stop that and please stop torturing the great old man.

    As it is inevitable the board has to take decisive steps in the interest of Wenger.
    Booing and gear and now banners.A bit to much I guess.

  • Nicky

    1.Arsene has never broken a contract in his life.
    2.The Arsenal Board have full confidence in him.
    3.If a review of his watch as Manager is necessary, it should be done in May, not now.

    I can’t recall any season’s end when Arsene’s head has been called for. It’s always early on when those of a fickle nature spout doom and gloom due to lack of faith and patience.

  • bjtgooner


    Your comments on another site show what a piece of trash you really are – I suggest you return to where you have shown that you really belong – the trash can.

    More generally, it is interesting that some of the AAAA sympathizers are attacking the owner – the ultimate target for an aggressive takeover.

  • Will

    Bottom line in my book is, nyone who wants Wengerout is a twat.

  • Nicky (@10.56am),

    Well said!

    The long running “Wenger out” campaign has now become a cliche for which other fans mock us (as a fickle bunch) when we are doing well. Especially on the Internet where there are no bigger set of cry baby football fans than Arsenal’s.

    I don’t think there is a more stupid comment on a thread like this than predictions of Arsene leaving at the end of this season. Who are the morons who write crap like this? Did they just started following Arsenal? Don’t they understand how the club runs its affairs? Is their hatred of Arsene Wenger so intense that it is blinding them to the man’s character and steadfastness?

  • dan

    Well sitting in wba m/c, none of us or others noticed the banner. Surprisingly BT wankfest made a big deal of it.

  • Gooner S

    “It’s gone too far now”. What has? The petulant, abusive, miss-guided moaning that has been going on for years? Born out of ignorance. The display of self entitlement, behaving like spoilt kids at Christmas? Throwing their toys out of the pram because we haven’t won the league or god forbid lose a game?

    The Arsenal board has to make a decision to save Wenger from himself? This wont happen.

    When Arsenal started the building of The Emirates I thought we would be 10 years struggling to compete, would be out of the top 4 and we wouldn’t get near a trophy. With that in mind I decided to support Arsenal through this time. I didn’t think we would end up with a baying mob of fans whose behaviour at times is disgraceful and doesn’t look at what has actually happened during that time.

  • jambug


    Good work my friend.

    The likes of jayramfootball are an embarrassment.

    Why come on here pretending to be against a banner he clearly supports?

    What is his aim?

    Well clearly it’s just to stir shit, and spread his negative agenda amongst those of us who have unshakable faith in the current manager and board.

    But what annoys me most about these people is they come here, an overtly pro Wenger site with the sole intention of being ‘antagonistic and offensive’ and then get all self righteous, when someone actually gets ‘antagonised and offended’ and tells them what they think of them.

    And lets not forgot these people happily inhabit places such as Le Grove, which is by all accounts, one of the most distasteful places you may find it your misfortune to come across.

    As I understand it the kind of language and personal abuse hurled at Wenger in places such as Le Grove would make a sewer rat blush, and yet they come here and expect to be treated with reverence, respect, and courtesy.

    A bunch of 2 faced hypocrites the lot of them.

  • Samuel Akinsola Adebosin

    For the needed orderliness of focusing very well on our season and not to be distracted by the intractable. The Gooners have to abate in marking any further trouble. One fact that can’t be argued is, the boss has not been a failure. Rather, he is a good success story at Arsenal. There is a local saying by the Yoruba tribe of Nigeria that says: “He who gives an Igbara man a cup of drinks to drink. Has ask him to speak a grammar to say give me another tumbler”. The boss has given good success to the Gooners. And after tasting it and discovered it is very sweat and desirous. They are now asking the boss to say, give me another success or else…… I think the boss and his entourage should be democratic and remain so. Let the hard-line Gooners, display any banners or flags of voice of dissent they wish to display in any Arsenal game. No problem. It is their rights. They can do that if they choose to do so, provided it is lawfully carried out. The stewards should not rip any banner out of the hands of the Gooners anymore. Even if they are displaying them at the Emirates. They should allow them to do it as long as they don’t disturb the peace or infringe on anybody’s right. When they have become tired, they will stop. Trying to stop them by force could lead to confrontations which could become messy. I think the ripping of the Gooners’ banners of voice of dissent last time at the Emirates Stadium by the stewards has led the Gooners to displayed other ones at the Hawthorns to indirectly tell the Gunners’ stewards to come and rip these ones out of their hands if they can. I think the boss should even not be making any serious statement over this kind of issue. If at all he commented, he should just say, the Gooners’ complains have been heard and are being looked into. Next time I will give my opinion on the Gunners tactics to be adopted to win our game with Southampton.

  • colario

    If the blurb had been ‘PMGOL OUT’ then it would have been serious.

  • Pete

    Banner was a disgrace. Also slightly disappointed that it wasn’t promptly taken down by neighbouring true supporters – perhaps they didn’t see it?

    If you hate Wenger – and you are entitled to your opinion even if it is wrong – then just go away until Wenger finally leaves. Which I hope won’t be for many more years. Please don’t spoil it for the rest of us who actually enjoy supporting the club.

  • Alex

    I was gutted to see Arsene questioned on the banner .This is what the media sniffs at.
    The boos are getting louder anyway.Wether one like it or not are facts.And now banners ?

    Immagine when the media start writing after any draw or loss followed by a boo:
    “Wenger dead man walking”

    Certainly is not what Wenger deserve and sensible people want to see.

  • Micheal Ram

    Arsene will fulfill his contract and I hope he signs again. By then, the policy of Arsenal FC for the past decade will take them over every team once he gets the right players. Kudos! As for this season, stop moaning and bitching, support the team like the way Dortmund fans!

  • Will

    On a seperate note, I would like to see Rosicky replace Ramsey for a few games.

  • Nicky

    As a slightly side issue but to emphasise the lack of control managers like Arsene have over the performance of players once they take to the field, I’ve just read on another site that Ozil is getting back with his ex-girlfriend.
    You could readily understand that his concentration might not be 100% on his duties during a game, yet Arsene would get the blame for a poor performance or selection.
    Just one example but there could be others at every game.

  • bob mac

    Excellent article.

    Get rid of Wenger……………..are stark raving bloody bonkers…………or what.

  • seamus

    A few, but not a lot, fans on here not happy with the wenger out banner. It’s a shame it’s come down to this especially since he is a legend at the club. Unforfortuanely this is what happens when the club doesn’t listen to the fans and I’m sorry to say it will only get worse. I remember when Terry Neil got sacked but then he didn’t have any control at the club whatsoever. I think Wenger will go but it will be a long long drawn out process.

  • seamus

    I think all are agreed that it’s madness to even contemplate changing a manager in mid- season and it will never happen here. Also, even Mr Toad is unavailable now as he’s managing Ghana! However, as I’ve said previously, Wenger does not think he’s done anything wrong and will not resign, even if we miss fourth place and the Board will allow him one “miss” as I’m sure Wenger will spin them a tale saying it’s all down to injuries. Additionally, he won’t give up on £16m and Silent Stan won’t want to pay that in compensation. Finally, it’s been well documented over the years that Wenger has total control of all things at the club- the directors, from the lame duck hooray henries, to the chief executive who was chosen by Wenger and Kroenke, know nothing about running a club in the Premiership, which was why Gazidis said Wenger is “irreplaceable.” So how can change be effected? I think, as you say, the banners yesterday have to be repeated at all away games and the penny might drop on those who choose to hear nothing, including the manager. Even an A4 size note saying “Wenger Out”is disallowed at the Emirates, so away fans have the chance to make a statement at every game from now on. Eventually, we have to hope the message gets through. We can but hope!

  • redanddread

    If Arsene got off his arse and sorted out the things that have been glaringly obviously wrong with our squad for a very long time now then maybe we would never be having this discussion and all would be harmonious in Goonerdom. But he hasn’t and deserves the crititicism. I understand the club will have to manage his departure carefully but that is still no reason for him not to be under any pressure regarding results and particularly his appalling recent record against the big teams.

  • jambug,

    I know right. Remember the unrighteous indignation from the previous thread?

  • Quincy

    Right, who do we want to win? Man City or Southampton?

    On the one hand, it would be great to see a club that’s properly run put one over the oil giants, on the other hand, Man City look like they have the best chance of knocking Mourinho off his smug perch.

    So who’s it going to be?

  • Quincy

    Does anyone have a link to what McManaman said?

  • TommieGun

    Bootoome, good you were the first to respond to the scene, yellow-taped it, bagged the evidence, case closed.

    I can’t say I get people who want Wenger to go. They remind me of the Queen from Alice in Wonderland stories: “Off with his head!”; so quickly, without remorse, not offering someone else to take control.


    However someone like Jayram – man … at least some of those douchebags come here and clearly say that they want Wenger out. Fair enough, some people believed the earth was flat, and in any event, UA is probably not the right place to do it (albeit my own reservations about the strict perspective but that’s for another post).

    But to speak in 2 voices like that is something that in the very basic sense, lacks good faith. BTW in my world, that’s not even the worst aspect – it’s being enough of an idiot to GET CAUGHT like that. Jeez, what a LOSER. Open up another account with another user name to slag Arsene off; it’s the equivalent of leaving your lovers pink panties in your glove compartment.

    Did I say LOSER?

  • N.T. Gruduah

    Come on guys, there is a lot of rubbish on this site in defence of Arsene Wenger — talk about defending the defenceless! For those forward-thinking true Arsenal supporters and those living in the past, together with Arsene, have a look at this: When we won the 2003-04 EPL title, Man U were only two titles ahead of us on 15, and Liverpool, 19. During the intervening years Man U have won five EPL titles and the Uefa Champions League, not to mention the League Cup, while we have stagnated at 13 for the most EPL titles won. During that time, under Arsene, we have been humiliated by our rivals time and again and made a laughing stock. At this rate, I am afraid, Man City and Chelsea will come from behind and overtake us! Much of Arsene’s early success can be attributed to David Dein, who helped cover the true, stingy and indecisive Arsene when it comes to transfer windows, as we have been witnessing after Dein left. And you call yourself an Arsenal supporter and accept such stagnation? I think all Arsene’s supporters should follow him out and stop holding our beloved club hostage!

  • jambug


    Yep, that was primarily what triggered what I said.

    But that was by no means the first occasion a single word has so enraged there sensibilities.

    And yes, I agree it was a distasteful word, but isn’t invoking such responses there aim?

    I mean, why else come to a staunch pro Wenger site spouting anti Wenger views?

    There aim is to incite, and when they do, they don’t like what they hear.

    Fine, then if they are so offended, why not stay at Le grove or one of the various other sites that would be only too pleased to hear there anti Wenger views?

    I’ll tell you why, because the truth is they come here spoiling for a fight, problem is, when they get one they start crying like babies.

    As I say, a bunch of 2 faced hypocrites.

  • jambug


    That must be one of the most ridiculous posts I have read on here.

    There is just so much wrong with it I wouldn’t know where to start to dismantle the garbage written.

    I’m sure someone will though.


  • seamus

    The feeling these days is that the club is just a couple of poor results away from the next wave of baying for the manager’s head. It’s far from a healthy state of affairs, although at the conclusion of the game, Arsenal moved into fourth place in the table. For a large number of supporters, that is not good enough, they want more. Are they being unrealistic?

  • blacksheep63

    I’ll have a go Jambug. N.T Gruduah talks about fans living in the past and then argues Wenger must go because our current ‘record’ of 13 EPL titles (which is wrong of course because it includes 1st division championships…), surely this all happened in the past?

    Wenger has overseen the move from Highbury to the Emirates and in doing so has cemented the future of Arsenal FC for decades to come. Who knows where we would be if we were still trying to play our matches in a declining stadium with a capacity almost half of that we have today? Would be we be able to afford to wages of Özil, Alexis and company?

    AW has also revolutionized the training centres at London Colney and Hale End and so further underpinned the clubs ability to compete in the future.

    As for the Dein quip well clearly mr (or mrs) Gruduah must be party to the psychology of Wenger in a way we mere mortals are not. Dein remains a Wenger supporter even if his son’s transfer dealing haven’t really made life easy for his dad’s friend. I don’t see AW as a ditherer, in fact quite the opposite. If he has a fault (and don’t we all?) then it is that he sticks to his convictions (not much of a fault) rather than panics.

    As a ‘true’ (whatever that means) ‘forward thinking’ Arsenal supporter I think Wenger will already be thinking about the hand over of the reins of power at the end of his contract. Unlike SAF at United Arsene will want to leave the club better than he found it and with a squad that allows his successor a fighting chance to succeed.

  • insideright

    The banner came at the end of a brief period in which Usmanov came up with his usual contradictory drivel; somebody fed Amy Lawrence a poorly thought out ‘Wenger out’ argument at an AST meeting and the aforesaid Amy (who, remember, has a book to sell)regurgitated it in a column in The Guardian.
    You could come up with an agenda driven conspiracy theory to explain the timing of the events or you could just come to the conclusion that those behind it have jumped on to a convenient bandwagon in order to get their own piece of the available publicity for their own personal ends.
    Certainly none of them have examined the circumstances behind some of the goals we’ve conceded recently (offsides, fouls) or have chosen to ignore them so that they wouldn’t get in the way of the story they wished to peddle.
    The sociological fact is that the bigger your tribe, the more likely it is to sub-divide into smaller tribes. That’s how people are.
    I’m part of a sub tribe which was disappointed that Wenger signed a three year contract in the summer. I rather wished it had been ten.

  • jambug


    Thank you sir. I shall add my 2 bobs worth.

    I had to admit this bit did make me laugh.

    “At this rate, I am afraid, Man City and Chelsea will come from behind and overtake us!”

    The truth is, in terms of ‘on field’ success over the 10 years that N.T. has focused on, they already have overtaken us !!! But it’s been at an average net spend of around £50 Million per season, with all proceeds being taken from a bottomless pit of oil money.

    At the same time we’ve had expenditure on the Training ground, Medical centre, and Stadium, in excess of £600 Million.

    I honestly don’t know what these people have for brains.

  • finsbury

    Chambers or Hayden


    The older more experienced Mendes mule Mangala (£32M)

    Or as Alan Sugar would say
    “Wenger knows the market”

  • Will

    They have crap Jambug.

    It is crazy they can’t see what we are battling against.

  • Below is a comment from an Arsenal fan on story on the notorious banner:

    “arsenalforce (Arsenal): ..The fans have been patient with Wenger since 2005, EXTREMELY PATIENT, more than any fan of any other club on the planet. But since 2005 they have been lied to, insulted by chairmans and had their opinions scoffed at by Wenger, all this while paying more than any other fan in Europe to watch Arsenal and all this while Wenger earns more than any other manager in the premiership. You can only treat the fans like idiots long enough till they finally had enough.”

    See the reply from a Man United fan:

    “evratime (Manchester United): “…more than any fan of any other club on the planet”. Jesus. How spoiled are you? Consistent Top 4 finishes and Champions League participation for well over a decade? Not to mention you won a major trophy last season. There are plenty of clubs in much, much worse positions than Arsenal, whose fans get put through the ringer, over and over. Plenty of them would kill to be in Arsenal’s position. Count yourself lucky for not being a Portsmouth fan, for a start. or Leeds United. Until you’ve seen your club on the brink of ceasing to exist, whilst lying to the people who directly support and invest in the business, then you haven’t really got much to complain about. Like me, you support a club who are an established elite football club who are very well run. We are very privileged to be a part of it. I’m not saying that you can’t be frustrated. Of course you can, but to make it seem like you are in a complete pit of despair, more so than any other football supporters, is just ridiculous.”

    And while I may be starting to sound like a self-0promoter, I must repost a comments 3 days ago on our pathetic cry-baby fans:

    “November 27, 2014 at 1:16 pm

    “Arsenal has been ridiculously steady since Arsene’s been our manager. The whiners can moan about 2 trophies in 10 years (current version of “no trophy in X years”) but stability is one thing that we have always enjoyed on his watch.

    “These days I am careful to not let people know that I am an Arsenal fan until I know them a little. I met a Liverpool fan last weekend and as we spoke he came across as a reasonable person so I opened up about by Goonership. Then, just as I had experienced on countless occasions, he started listing the number of things wrong with Arsenal. Yes, you are reading that right: A LIVERPOOL FAN IS LECTURING AN ARSENAL FAN ON WHAT IS WRONG WITH ARSENAL.

    “Apologies for shouting but this shit can’t be made up. Of course, and naturally, I went medieval on his ass and he succumbed by the time I finished summarising the history of the 2 clubs in the last decade.

    “The fella was reacting the way people react to Arsenal fans who usually encourage the nonsense with their own incessant whining. God, I hate Arsenal fans (you know the sort I’m talking about). My new acquaintance had every reason to be despondent about his club while I have very little reason to be about mine but guess who was expressing sympathy for the other. But can you blame him? He must have played the therapist to lots of cry-baby Gooners in the past who are always looking for avenues and listening hears to express the woes that Arsene Wenger not “winning trophies” or “beating the big teams” is bringing to their lives.

    “In summary, a Liverpool fan whose club is trying to but is no where near building a new stadium; have been out of CL for a while; royally fucked up a near certain PL win; are struggling in their CL group; haven’t won the league in the PL era – IS sympathising with me, a Gooner, whose club doesn’t have any of the listed problems AND it is because what other fans have learnt over the years from the media and our pathetic fans IS to be sorry for Arsenal.”

  • Th14thesecond

    2 things: I wonder how much better we will do if they ever implement video technology throughout a whole season. People forget we’ve been on the receiving end of some curios decisions over the years. The other thing was WHY DO OUR PLAYERS NOT WARM UP PROPERLY?? Please watch these guys warm up it’s a complete joke. Our bodies have to be completely warm and all joints loosened up by going through the necessary movements. These guys don’t even have a set routine before they come on. Too many times i’ve seen our players jump straight off the bench and onto the pitch as a substitute and i’ve thought to myself ‘no, it can’t be, not at this level’ but they really do this!

  • dan


    This seems to be common occurance with many LFC fans, its always the same. Worse than any other, they also are the most deluded of supporters.

  • jambug


    How sad is it that fans from other Clubs can see what so many of our cannot.

    What’s that saying:

    ‘Non so blind as those that cannot see’

    Slightly off topic, but have my eyes deceived me ,or has a team with the best defence in the Premier League and a much admired Coach just been embarrassed on the break whilst recklessly throwing everything at retrieving a one goal deficit ?

    No, this cannot be? Only a clueless Wenger team would do such a thing, surely !!

  • jambug


    One of the reasons they remain happily deluded is because the multitude of ex Liverpool players in the media are admirably loyal, and point blank refuse to trash and ridicule the Club they love.

    In total contradiction to our bunch of ex players that just cant wait to stick the knife.

    I know the likes of Hanson, Lawrenson etc. etc. can be extremely annoying but I must admit to having, if a little reluctantly, harboured a hint of jealousy that we didn’t have something similar fighting our corner in the media.

    The truth is so many of our lot are a fucking embarrassment.

  • dan,

    It is not peculiar to Liverpool fans. I am pretty sure of getting similar “oh you poor baby” reaction from fans of virtually any other club in the country when they learn I support Arsenal. Our fans are pathetic whiners, the very worst. The media know this and that is one of the reasons why they are always gleeful to highlight every tiny bit of problem with the club. The “X years without a trophy” line was made potent by our fans who latched unto it and used it a stick to beat our manager, the players and the board.

    While I agree with you that Liverpool fans are pretty deluded, I am more comfortable with an eternally optimistic set of fans over the sorry lot that think that because they “spend” on Arsenal and go to games, they must whine and whine like toddlers about the club ALL the time.

    Deluded they might be but Liverpool fans are head and shoulder above ours when it comes to believing in and supporting the team. After all, that is the only role that we have in the life of our clubs: supporting them!

  • jambug,

    Wow, 3 minutes apart and basically making the same point!

    You scare me sometimes 🙂

  • AB

    This site never fails to put a smile on my face , you guys should get paid for this . Better than I’m a Celebrity, keep it coming. Bonkers

  • SouthernGunner

    Something always overlooked by some sections of the media is how brilliant the manager has been with the way he’s handled all this criticism, warrented or not. He’s bitten back a few times but no where nearly as much as he could have. It’s the deliberate singling out of an obviously talented individual that is unfair & unwarrented.

    One criticism he gets is how he never admits mistakes (not sure how true that may be). Perhaps if the criticism of the manager was more fair, he’d be more forthcoming with any errors made on his part. Sections of the media & supporters are partly to blame.

    Whatever you think of Wenger, other world class managers like him haven’t taken things on the chin so well. Any criticism of him would be better considered if much of it didn’t become so nasty & personal at times.

    There was agreat quote from the Borussia Dortmand fans this week along the lines of “Klopp gave us success & good times, we’ll support him through the bad.”

    Maybe the English football sulture has a thing or two to learn from the Germans.

  • redanddread

    It’s be so easy for Asrene to placate the hoardes. Straighten out your defense, buy a world class DM/DLP and get some reinforcements at CB. Can everyone else be so wrong and Arsene so right. I’d say that our results against the better teams indicate that Arsene’s gotten it wrong and shown scant indication that he intends to sort out the issues affecting his squad. Fans would happily pay the highest prices in WORLD football to see a winning team. The trouble is most don’t think Arsene can do the business at the top end of the game and that is exactly where Arsenal need to be performing. If you honestly think Arsene can win the league again or the CL then fair enough. I’d love him to prove me so wrong but I just don’t see it happening and the growing feeling is that there are several others out there that might well be able to take us to the next level. What’s so wrong with that-last season’s FA Cup aside what recent evidence do we have that Arsene can win anything at Arsena; If you’re happy with 4th, losing to the big teams. hearing the usual excuses then be happy with Arsene. To me it looks more like “In Arsene we Rust” as horrible as it is to say that

  • jambug


    I know, it is spooky.

    Can someone tell me what AB is on about now?

  • AB

    Nice one Citeh thanks for softening the saints up for us , expect revenge for dumping us out of the Carling Cup whatever . What a goal Everton

  • AB

    We won’t win the league , ( obviously ) but my 4 th is looking very exciting , roll on weds

  • jambug,

    Who can tell what goes on in the head of the retarded weasel. Yes, I said it. Somebody get the fainting couch pronto.

  • AB

    Booty it’s a free country ( say what you like ) you only ever make me laugh.
    You need to get your blood pressure checked I think you might be in the danger Zone . Life must be pretty dire in Booty land

  • AB,

    You forgot to add that I am only an “armchair” fan who isn’t worthy of questioning ST holders like you.

    You are slipping dude.

  • AB

    Booty Arsenal’s greatest fan , saves up all year to go to the Emirates Cup with his pal Jambag , tight bastards !

  • AB

    Your right sorry !

  • OlegYch

    if you think Levy is dumb take a look at FC Kuban Krasnodar (they were playing with Swansea in 2013 Europa League)
    sacking five managers in three years, re-signing a manager who fled from the club for big bucks (and was later sacked there), openly calling protesting fans idiots

  • JohnShaft

    Boo boo . You are nothing, a casual fan, a beggar blow in who obviously knows nothing of any decency and our values, and not intelligent enough to adapt. You ought to consider the importance of traditional and historic ST holders- the people of Highbury and Islington, without whom there would be no Arsenal FC. While you move north to buy a house they make sacrifices and stay loyal. You are easily the most ignorant individual ive come across on the internet.

  • ob1977

    Another great article but there are only 2 recognised trophies to the AAA as the FA cup is clearly not big enough even alongside CL qualification, and a lot more than Maureen managed last year!

  • jambug

    From yesterday


    November 29, 2014 at 7:04 pm

    Boo boo. I wont be reading or answering your abusive comments anymore. If as it seems, you are incapable of debating like an adult in a civilised society without resorting to namecalling, you are not worth another breath of air or a second of my time.

    If only you’d kept to your word then I wouldn’t of wasted 30 seconds of my life reading your inane drivel.

  • jambug


    Are you for real? My god what a cry baby.

  • JohnShaft

    Jambug, i turned off the junk filter so got to read your post too. You are as interesting and varied as ever. Is that mrs jambug ironing your pyjamas behind you? Exciting stuff

  • Paul the gooner

    Just a thought.It would not surprise me if those supporters were paid by some media outlet.The banner was very professionally done.A total stupid thing to do.I hope this is the last we see of this.I fear not!!

  • jambug,

    I don’t know if you are familiar with the American Nobel prize winning economist Paul Krugman. Here is a timeless gem from him:

    “When the going gets tough, the people losing the argument start whining about civility.”

    I don’t give a flying fuck about civility but I care passionately about logic. What we have been reduced to is a society filled with people using the proper language while making blatantly false or outrightly moronic statements. That is why the TV bleeps “fuck” while allowing politicians to brazenly misinform the public.

    There is JohnShaft going on a self-righteous tirade against me while shamefully twisting my words to score cheap points DESPITE being a bigoted idiot. You know, the sort that make fun of names that sounds different from theirs in the name of ‘banter’.

    He and others who think like him might need to Google “The running Man: Arsenal fan” to see who the players and the club consider to be a great supporter. It might educate on the topic. I am not holding my breath though. Stupid is what Stupid does.

  • Mandy Dodd

    The banner was pathetic, says more about those who unfurled it than who it was aimed at. It appeared during a game. Which we won…unforgivable, the vast majority of other fans who support teams who have nothing like the success we have had under wenger must think the banner boys a precious, greedy, spoilt, out of touch bunch of tossers with a sense of entitlement they of all people do not deserve. The only clubs who have done consistently better than wengers Arsenal have done it on vastly different resources. A self sustained club cannot compete with a club whose owner pours a billion into it. A matter for debate, but cannot think of anyone who would have served us better than wenger in these difficult years.
    As for wengers future, cannot see him doing three years as planned, that would leave him a bit of a lame duck in the final year. Think he will either leave after two, or extend , depending on how things go.
    Some critics have said a under a new manager, we could finish first, or we could finish tenth. Luckily the club at the moment have no appetite to risk the latter

  • Tasos

    Jurgen Klopp’s Dotrmund now sit rock bottom of the Bundesliga after today’s 1-0 defeat at Frankfurt.

    However the Dortmund fans have shown fantastic togetherness & loyalty towards their manager, producing a banner saying words to the effect of ” you have won us trophies in the past, now we will help you through this crisis”.

    Thing is, why would a perfectly respectable managerial candidate like Klopp want to leave Dortmunds civilised fans and come to manage Arsenal with our moronic bunch of loonies?

  • JohnShaft

    Boo Boo. It shows how much of an actual boo boo you really are if you think the players and the club have one ounce of respect for someone who would chase like a teenage girl a bus for miles. Besides, you seem to be confused about what country you live in now. This is not the delta where the natives allow themselves to be shit on by their government and multinationals, this is the UK- a country where guidelines and policy are in place that looks after traditions, community and local stakeholders. Arsenal are fully aware of local and stakeholder engagement- whereas you would tell them to F-off if you cannot afford it. Its actually mental how simple you are, I reckon religion has damaged you worse than I thought. God help your wife and kids

  • AB

    Question should one protest if disgruntled
    If so where should one protest and at what time
    How should one protest is there any protocol
    Should the club address any such issues or just ignore
    Protests at an away game let me tell you these are in the main staunch dire hard fans
    The tide may be turning expect more turbulence ahead

  • AB

    Personally don’t like banners think there naff

  • “Besides, you seem to be confused about what country you live in now. This is not the delta where the natives allow themselves to be shit on by their government and multinationals, this is the UK”

    What the hell does this even mean other than a further display of xenophobic and racist bigotry?

  • Mandy Dodd

    Klopp and his Dortmund now sit bottom of the German league. Should be food for thought for some. Still think he is an ok manager, with some mitigating circumstances….but bottom of the league?
    Future Arsenal manager? The answer to all perceived issues? The jury is out and that is being kind to him at the moment.

  • AB

    Mandy it’s not who’s better so much as have we gone a bit stale ( bit like a marriage ) you know marry in a whirlwind etc then 18yrs down the line
    I think you know what I mean ( I’m 25 yrs ) poor cow and she still loves me

  • AB

    Booty go to bed your head is going to explode !

  • 4evered

    John Shaft and AB – dont you know that with these 2 bookburning hysterical teenagers can say what they like in defence of their deity ? they can throw the toys right out of the pram and use the most unacceptable language if they even get a hint that you might be suggesting change ! I mean this club didnt exist before the bloody EMS and sky did it ?
    Oh and whatever they say the people who run this site turn a blind eye to it – but don’t you dare go against the party line or your gone .

    I guess you will be dragging yourselves across london after work on Wednesday and SUPPORTING the club with your hard earned money whilst hoping for the best ? meanwhile these two little grey men will be having a nice nut cutlet and following the game on text because nanny won them watch tv .

  • bjtgooner


    I think it past time AB and JohnShaft were binned. They have nothing to contribute apart from distraction.

  • bjtgooner


    How could I forget the third troll – please include 4evered.

  • AB

    BJ ( unfortunate name) stop being such a cry baby and grow up .
    To demonstrate my love for all things UT I’d like to take you to a game in the near future.
    You can still call me names and the whole night will be on me . So what do you say ?

  • AB

    I’m a great judge of people here goes .

    Booty I’d say 40 ish married couple of kids young early teens maybe
    Works 40 hr week poss council or government -white collar
    Tight as a drum – hen pecked – but misery to live with
    Wife hates Arsenal thinks it’s his obsession
    High blood pressure
    Can count mates on one finger all think he’s a pain in the arse

  • bjtgooner


    You have shown yet again why you do not belong here.

  • AB

    Saw the running man outside Arsenal tube . So what cheap publicity stunt no one was impressed .
    Bet you didn’t

  • AB

    BJ got to ask are you a man or a lady , if latter I will moderate my tone ?

  • Mick

    A plea to Tony and Walter.
    I come on this site to engage with like minded folk on Arsenal/football related topics connected to the article concerned. I would guess that 50% of the comments today are mud slinging, nothing to do with the article and extremely boring. I agree with bjtgooner, ban the troublemakers he named who are only intent on disrupting things and let normality return.

  • AB

    Mick they are abusive and vulgar and you defend that .
    Free speech people fought for it and I for one will defend that right

  • JohnShaft

    Boo boo, whether you were white, black, yellow or red it does not change the fact you are an ignoramus. If you consider what I said racist go to the met- do let us know when they stop laughing at you. You should be ashamed of yourself playing the race card at any perceived insult. You are a disgrace to those who are really suffering from racism.

  • omgarsenal

    Jambug….here is my response to N.T.Gruduah’s ignorant post:

    Point 1)Never seen him or her on here before…..sure sign of an AAA entitled whiner!
    Point 2)His/her post reads like a true AAA afficianado whose anti-Wenger vitriol is rotting them from the inside out!

    Now,to respond to his shite point by point:

    *¨Come on guys, there is a lot of rubbish on this site in defence of Arsene Wenger SURPRISE N.T. but THIS IS A SITE CREATED TO PROMOTE THE TEAM AND MANAGER! Don’t like that…then go to LeGrove- suits your ¨style¨ a lot better.At the same time we’d flush a lot of rubbish like you as well.

    * ¨When we won the 2003-04 EPL title, … not to mention the League Cup, while we have stagnated at 13 for the most EPL titles won.¨ PLEASE COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES N.T. HAD WE HAD THE RESOURCES THESE GUYS HAVE enjoyed SINCE 2005, I HAVE NO DOUBT WE’D BE RIGHT THERE BESIDE THEM BUT WE DIDN’T….WE HAD A 600 MILLION STERLING DEBT yet we’re the only one of them that has been in the cl for 15 years and the only one of them never relegated!



    * ¨And you call yourself an Arsenal supporter and accept such stagnation? I think all Arsene’s supporters should follow him out and stop holding our beloved club hostage!¨ …YOU SIR/MADAM ARE A F**KING CRETINOUS, IGNORANT, IRRATIONAL, MORONIC,DEBILITATED AND DESPERATELY HOPELESS SIMPLETON….YOU ARE STAGNANT AND PUTRID AND SHOULD BE FLUSHED OUT OF THE GOONER’S UNIVERSE ALONG WITH THE REST OF YOUR BRAIN-DEAD COHORTS IN THE AAA.

    Sorry to my UA colleagues for the caps and this rant but fools like N.T. really get my goat!

  • bjtgooner


    Good rant!!

  • 4evered

    ban them – ban them – they are different – we dont like different – ban them – stone them – my goodness it’s like a clan rally in here .

  • WalterBroeckx

    Just like any other site Untold Arsenal editing team will decide who they ban or not. We can also put people in moderation who clearly are only out on trying to disturb our normal conversation.
    If you don’t like the rule or our normal conversation which is rather civilised as long as there are not moaners around then I suggest you look for other blogs where they like that kind of behaviour a lot.

    Some people will no longer see their comment appear immediately. This is down in order to bring back civilisation on to Untold as it usually is and was till some came along and brought their disruptive talk.

    No need to mention freedom of speech. We aren’t the government but a private blog.

    Behave and you can stay and get your comment published.

    Thank you for your interest in our affairs.


  • Pete

    Trying to be constructive, I think we need to think of ways we can publicly demonstrate our support for Arsene – a banner, a letter or whatever? Perhaps a concerted attempt to text BBC live text or any other media organisation doing vox pop?

    I abhor violence but I really hope that if that – or similar – banner ever reappears it is removed by proper supporters.

    I will certainly be participating in any pro-Arsene chants on Wednesday evening.

    Can you imagine how the Dortmund fans would react to the cancer within if anyone ever dared try a similar stunt over there?

  • 4evered:

    “it’s like a clan rally in here”

    Yet you keep hanging around. Still, here you are!

  • Mandy Dodd

    Just seen MOTD, Spurs second only to Chelsea on ref favours this year….and the pundits seem to be backing up the refs. Unless of course the refs on here disagree?

  • Mandy Dodd

    Pete, as we know, the stadium majority are pro wenger, unfortunately there are those on both sides who will use violence and if such banners appear it could incite problems.
    Wouldn’t be surprised if the people unfurling this banner are in the pay of the sun….or someone else.

  • 4evered

    thanks walter nice to see that you have no Interest in Bootoomee using the word retard – which is generally accepted as unacceptable except it seems on UA ?

  • Mandy Dodd

    Just a thought, if we go a season without being given a penalty by the pgmol, would that make their refs their equivalent of the Invincibles….in a ref context of course?

  • Pat

    Agreed Mandy. There’s nothing easier than paying somebody to stage a provocation.

    I saw the words stale and stagnant somewhere in the above discussion. Neither word is in any way appropriate for Arsene Wenger. His mind is alert, he deploys his years of experience, and he is always thinking of new ways to win matches in the face of new and old challenges and with different players.

    He is always on the training ground for practice. He considers the group, and he considers the individuals.

    When he told one of the press men that he questions himself every day and he hoped the gentleman of the press did the same, I have no doubt he was stating the simple truth.

    A letter in the press recently gave the opinion he was undoubtedly the best manager to come out of the Premiership and I agree. And we are so lucky that Arsenal have got him.

    It takes a very unusual person to achieve the consistency of 15 consecutive years in the Champions League. Nobody else has done it. And that’s not even taking into account all the problems he has had to deal with while achieving it.

  • Mandy Dodd

    So right Pat. Some are bored of a guy who has punched above his weight for so many years,they now tell us our wage bill is higher than Chelsea’s , as a stick to beat wenger with, forgetting what wenger has had to spend over the last ten years compared with Chelsea. Will be interesting to see what Vhelseas subsidised loans, and recent players salaries do to that wage comparison BTW.
    Do the bored want success, or do,they want the fear of genuine failure? Because some,of the names they put forward to replace wenger guarantee the latter.
    It has not all gone sterile at arsenal, nothing wrong that maybe a couple of signings, players coming back, less injuries wouldn’t cure.

  • greencardusa

    Tony and Walter
    From the incredulous attacks by AAAA in the last few weeks, it occur to me that it is not only Arsene that is attacked but untold itself. Most come to this site because of the level of sanity that prevails and the insights garnered. It is also the site without par when it comes to defending the club and its manager. Recently we learned that Untold is making an impact much further than just our supporters. From the low life comments and vitriol that has besmirched this site in recent days, it occurs to me that causing this site to decline into cesspool of slimy back and forth bickering is a sure way to diminish its attraction to its world-wide readers and supporters of the cllub. In light of this, all must be done to pre-empt the agent-provocateers from stirring unbecoming turmoil on this site. Please take steps to do what is necessaryt to presenve the standing and strength of this wonderful site≥

  • Gord

    This is nto about “Let’s sack the manager” approach to football, rather it visits what I believe Colario started about head/brain injuries, and helmets. That comment was in another thread, but activity stopped there a couple of days ago, and I am just back to the civilised world now.

    Helmets, Football and Brain Injuries

    Being a materials engineer, I can wear different hats. I put on my physics hat.

    There are 2 kinds of collisions: elastic and inelastic. In an elastic collision, all of the kinetic energy before the collision is seen in the bodies that collide after the collision. In an inelastic collision, some
    of the kinetic energy gets changed into energy to deform materials or into heat, light and sound.

    For the instances of football, no amount of energy in a collision gets turned into light. A miniscule amount gets turned into sound (we can hear there was a collision).

    Brickfields I believe is a doctor, I wouldn’t be surprised if there weren’t a few others with medical training kicking around Untold. I could be corrected.

    The skull is composed of many bones. Some of the bones “weld” together as we age. Whether mankind evolved to headbutt others or we got hit in the forehead a lot with sticks, bones and rocks, the bones making up our forehead usually stitch together and form a solid mass. The bones on the top of our head often don’t stitch, so the top of the skull doesn’t respond as a solid mass, whereas the forehead does.

    Inside the skull, the brain is nominally suspended in fluid surrounding the brain.

    End Part 1.

  • Gord

    Helmets, Football and Brain Injuries – Part 2

    There are 2 different situations (end points) as far as helmuts are concerned: one is to protect the brain, the other is to allow activities such as heading.

    This is about brain protection.

    The object of protecting the brain, is nominally about absorbing energy (turning it into heat and permanent deformation of materials), so that the brain is effected by less energy. For a collision arriving at the forehead directed backwards, the first collision the brain can experience, is the collision of the inside of the skull at the forehead to the front of the brain. If the initial collision involves a high enough energy, the brain can now accelerate (within the brain cavity) towards the rear of the skull, and at some point another collision can occur between the rear of the brain and the rear of the skull.

    I don’t believe sports like football can involve more than 2 brain/skull collisions in a straightline collision. If the blow has a sidewise component, we can get twisting of the skull and collisions on the side of the brain as well.

    Different kinds of processing happens in different parts of the brain, and just because something happens on the left side of the brain at a certain location, doesn’t necessarily mean something similar happens on the right side of the brain (at the symmetric location).

    I don’t remember all the rote about what happens where, but I believe optical processing (from the eyes) happens at the back of the brain. Does the left eye processing happen in the left hemisphere?

    It is possible to build a thin helmut which is good at absorbing kinetic energy. If a person went to head the ball using such a helmut, the ball would not travel very far or fast. Thud we be about all one would hear. At some point, the helmut will need to be replaced due to breakdown of materials. For athletes as expensive as EPL players, I would expect the helmut to be replaced on a regular basis on ability to pass some kind of test.

    I would not want to see fans accept a “failed” helmut from a player such as Petr Cech, and then use it in games. The helmut has failed, it is only meant to be looked at. It would probably be best if all the energy absorbing guts were ripped out, but that would decrease its value as a collectible.

    End Part 2.

  • Gord

    Helmets, Football and Brain Injuries – Part 3 – Heading

    That early footballers suffered brain injuries due to heading a ball far heavier than it should have been, should have been obvious before anyone ever tried it. All people knew that leather would absorb water, and become heavier. Modern footballs do not absorb much water, and likely could be designed to absorb less. There is a point of diminishing returns as far as how much water absorption is allowed.

    A helmut meant to allow heading the ball, will be designed to absorb as little energy as is possible. Concussion can still easily happen with a ball designed for heading.

    The human skull is not spherical, and is not of constant shape (however one describes its shape). To build a helmut meant for heading, can make heading in some directions more directable than others. A larger helmut will transfer larger twisting forces than a smaller helmut.

    End Part 3.

  • Gord

    Helmets, Football and Brain Injuries – Part 4 – Adaptive Helmuts

    Just considering a single technology here, but it is easily possible to get differences in viscosity in fluids on other order of 10,000,000 times by using ferrohydrodynamic fluids and magnetic fields.

    A player could have a helmut which could produce no bounce at all, or a bounce similar to bouncing off steel, with no apparent difference to opposition.

    I would think that would be very unfair.

    End Part 4.

  • Gord

    Helmets, Football and Brain Injuries – Part 5 – Arsenal versus WBA

    Looking at the report on the Arsenal versus WBA game, we see the only goal is headed.

    The picture I see, has Welbeck heading the ball, being played by #15 of WBA. Welbeck’s head is at least 2.5 feet higher than the WBA player, who is only making contact with Welbeck at the hip level.

    For me, the intent of the WBA player is to at best cause “submarine” our player, making it unlikely he will be able to get his feet underneath him. But it seems more likely that the WBA player intends to injure Welbeck. Get Welbeck spinning about his centre of mass, and it becomes possible that the end result is a neck dislocation when Welbeck comes back to contact the ground. Is the intent of the WBA player to kill Welbeck?

    For me, that picture has red card written all over it. No attempt to play the ball, making contact in a manner which can cause serious injury. And send the referee to jail at the same time, for allowing that to happen without disciplinary action.

    End Part 5.

  • Gord

    Re: Arsene’ Wenger’s interviews after the game.

    It would be nice to know who the boneheads asking questions are.

    >> on a banner in the crowd…

    > I don’t comment on that. Do I need to say it again? I don’t comment on your question.

    >> on whether he is the future of Arsenal…

    > You’re very good at insisting. The responsibility of everybody is to prepare for the future.

    It would be nice to identify the bonehead, who is insisting.

  • para

    Experience teaches me that NOTHING is innocent any more, there is ALWAYS an agenda, so I wonder if the AAA is nurtured by someone who wants to take over Arsenal?

    Truly, this is the nature of business wars, propaganda against the enemy until you wear them and public opinion down then you swoop in and take the prize.

    Who is so interested in Arsenal that would fit this profile?

  • Gord

    Goal of the year to a female?

    > Roche’s goal against Wexford Youths meant she made the 10-strong shortlist for the Puskas award along with the likes of Robin van Persie, Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Diego Costa.

    > Indeed, since the award was inaugurated in 2009, six women’s goals have been nominated but none has ever made the three-person shortlist.

    At some point, a female is going to get goal of the year. There is absolutely no reason why a female can’t get goal of the year. Is this the year?

    Of course, it would be better if Stephanie Roche played for Arsenal.

  • ARSENAL 13

    Posted on wrong place before…

    Stagnation. Hmmmmmm. Well, during that time which other teams stayed with us inside the top 4 constantly???……


    City have come up recently.
    Chelsea, remember 6th.
    Tiny tots, need I say.
    ManUtd, least season.
    Liverpool. Ppfff…

    None. Please define stagnation please.

  • 4evered – the moderation system on Untold is far from perfect. Moderating commentaries and deciding what is acceptable was not what we set up Untold for, and never imagined it would be such a problem when it all started.

    It is quite unreasonable however to blame Walter, whose native language is Flemish. I’ll take responsibility, and say that retard is an unacceptable word.


  • I am not going to go back and cut comments that have abuse in them… for a start I don’t have the time … but I am with Blacksheep on this – and I will try to stop posts in future that use such language. I accept the point that we need vigorous discussion, but my own view as publisher is that if we can’t rebut a comment we disagree with using civil language, then we don’t have much of an argument.

    My point on Untold is always the same – the articles we publish attempt to put forward a point of view backed up with reasoned argument and evidence. I would invite everyone who disagrees with an article or another comment to rebut the comment or article with reasoned argument and evidence.

    It is simply a more civilised approach.

    If there is anyone whose comments (from this point on, please don’t go back in time, because I just don’t have the hours in the day to deal with it) fall short of this ideal, email and I will try to deal with it.

  • 4evered

    Thank you Tony .

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Lost in the Translation

    In a hotel in Athens: “Visitors are expected to complain at the office between the hours of 9 and 11 A.M. daily.”

    In a Paris hotel elevator: “Please leave your values at the front desk.”

    In the lobby of a Moscow hotel across from a Russian Orthodox monastery: “You are welcome to visit the cemetery where famous Russian and Soviet composers, artists, and writers are buried daily except Thursday.”

    On the menu of a Swiss restaurant: “Our wines leave you nothing to hope for.”

    Outside a Hong Kong tailor shop: “Ladies may have a fit upstairs.”

    In a Bangkok dry cleaner’s: “Drop your trousers here for best results.”

    In a Rhodes tailor shop: “Order your summers suit. Because is big rush we will execute customers in strict rotation.”

    Similarly, from the Soviet Weekly: “There will be a Moscow Exhibition of Arts by 15,000 Soviet Republic painters and sculptors. These were executed over the past two years.”

    In a Rome laundry: “Ladies, leave your clothes here and spend the afternoon having a good time.”

    In a Copenhagen airline ticket office: “We take your bags and send them in all directions.”

    On the door of a Moscow hotel room: “If this is your first visit to the USSR, you are welcome to it.”

    In the office of a Roman doctor: “Specialist in women and other diseases.”

    In an Acapulco hotel: “The manager has personally passed all the water served here.”

    In a Tokyo shop: “Our nylons cost more than common, but you’ll find they are best in the long run.”

    Two signs from a Majorcan shop entrance: “English well talking.” “Here speeching American.”

    Sign in a hotel corridor in Istanbul: “Please to evacuate in hall especially which is accompanied by rude noises.”

    In a Tokyo bar: “Special cocktails for the ladies with nuts.”

    At a Budapest zoo: “Please do not feed the animals. If you have any suitable food, give it to the guard on duty.”

    In a Swiss mountain inn: “Special today — no ice cream.”

    Detour sign in Kyushi, Japan: “Stop: Drive Sideways.”

    On the faucet in a Finnish washroom: “To stop the drip, turn cock to right.”

    In the window of a Swedish furrier: “Fur coats made for the ladies from their own skin.”

    In a Czechoslovakian tourist agency: “Take on of our horse-driven city tours — we guarantee no miscarriages.”

    In a Vienna hotel: “In case of fire, do your utmost to alarm the hotel porter.”

    In a Japanese hotel: “You are invited to take advantage of the chambermaid.”

  • finsbury

    Reading the comments above I can see why the Groaner(s) comes here to “express an opinion”. A self-declared expert in PR no less:

    Read it and weep 🙂

  • finsbury

    Corr.; skimming past most of the comments above…

  • Tony,

    I will concede that retard is not a good word but how do you feel about your blog being likened to a clan rally?

    4evered may not be calling people retards but he brings worse disaffection to this site with his nicely worded but polarising comments. And he is always winding up regulars on tandem with other trouble makers.

    I come here as I have been doing for more than 5 years because of what the site is about and I have always enjoyed the company of like minded Gooners. People like 4evered have come and gone and soon we’ll not see him around here anymore. But it is not up to him to instigate censorship or complain about what is acceptable and what isn’t.

  • Menace

    I think that many feel they are better than Wenger at managing a football team built by him. These people are also better supporting some other team. Wenger is the best & will be manager at Arsenal till he decides to go. Those of you who support a banner that is pathetic in its thinking need to examine your understanding of football.

    Teams don’t exist for trophies. Trophies exist for teams to compete. Teams that have sold their soul win nothing as they effectively buy themselves glory.

    I love the football Wenger brought to Arsenal and I enjoy the game they play. I am an Arsenal supporter and will support them under Wenger. If Wenger is forced to go, I may go too. I will not stop supporting Arsenal but I will not stand or sit amongst idiots who do not appreciate good football.

  • bjtgooner

    Bootoomee @ 4.02pm

    I am fully with you on the views you expressed.

  • bjtgooner,

    Thanks pal. It is rich to hear complaints about civility from someone comparing Untold to the gathering of the KKK. But we have experienced this several times in the past, they come and go. Where is hissy Fitt, Matt and others today? Like a passing fad, 4evered and his ilk will soon go away to be replaced by another set. The whining about being picked on is not new either. It’s what they do: look for a fight and then play the victim when answered.

  • Gooneress No1

    I want Wenger to stay full stop; not even vaguely interested in the naysayers and the powerful with their agendas

    Like my grandfather used to say ‘when the powers hate you… you must be doing something right. When they love you…’