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Stoke – Arsenal: Keyboard managers exposed, bad start, great comeback till Taylor stepped in

By Walter Broeckx

I usually do my match report in a chronological way. But this time I will start with a message for those who will come on here to talk about how the manager should have put up his team and how tactical inept he is.

And to do that I will go back to the Swansea defeat. Because the same one that now will start to harp on about this I want to point at what they said after that match.

They said that Wenger should have taken off Monreal (he did this now because of Monreal being injured), put Chambers in the middle (he did this today forced because of Monreal being injured and Koscielny clearny not 100% fit) and put Bellerin at right back as he would deal with anything that was throwing at him. And no bigger Bellerin fan than me but I disagreed.

I disagreed at the time. Saying that doing that you would expose Bellerin to a possible bad day and kill some confidence. It would mean that Mertesacker had to play on the left side of central defence and that he then is not as good as on the right side. I was called all sorts of names and said that I was just defending the manager who couldn’t see what they all could see.

So Wenger did all that be it forced somehow on him. And boy did that work?

The first goal was down to one rule against Stoke (second goal also in fact): don’t allow them to cross to the big boys. And now the changes as the keyboard managers told Wenger to do and then  the problems I pointed at were clearly visible within the first minute. Gibbs allowing the cross as was somehow too advanced from the kick off, Per not being in his usual place as he had to cover for Gibbs, Chambers being lost somewhere in between and Bellerin not sharp enough from the start of the match.

You don’t want to go down at any ground so fast and certainly not at Stoke. As this gives them the opportunity to play their favourite tactics. Hoof it forward and count on that. Crouch manhandling Chambers but no yellow from the ref? Surely how is that possible? Right it’s Taylor.

Arsenal tried to do something in return but when Alexis was fouled the ref gave the foul against him. Ok, that made it clear from the start that he still is useless. Last match a Southampton player punching the ball away was no foul for the ref. Alexis taking the ball with him with his chest was a handball for Taylor this time.

We got a few half chances but Giroud completely missed his header and we couldn’t really get going. Maybe I missed something as my stream went down on more than one occasion. I didn’t miss the second Stoke goal. Again Gibbs allowed a cross from his flank and again where Koscielny would have been we saw no one. Bojan tapped it over the line.

The third goal was again a typical Stoke goal. A corner that was headed down and Walker could finish it from close range. 3-0 down at half time. But the good news for me was that at first sight no players were injured.

Welbeck came on at the start of the second half in the place of Bellerin. Oxlade-Chamberlain filling in at right back or was it Flamini. Sorry a real blurry stream. Was Bellerin injured or just to spare him from the critical fans? Did I speak too soon about no injuries? Crouch then finally got a yellow card. The wrong one as it was for the third time that I could see that he swung an arm in the face of an Arsenal defender. He should have been sent off for that in the first half. But well this is Taylor as we know him.

Alexis then with a golden chance dribbling pas all and everyone and then…he hit the post. That could have put us back in the match with more than half an hour to play. That would have been an amazing goal and solo effort.

Stoke then getting a corner for kicking the ball out over the goal line themselves? Another strange decision from Taylor.

Chambers getting a yellow for holding Crouch who had been throwing his arms in every Arsenal player on the pitch with only one yellow card to show for it?

After one hour Giroud came off and Podolski came on. Arsenal seemingly trying to press a bit more but then on an attack a low shot beat Martinez who didn’t look good at that. But the assistant signaled for an offside as a Stoke player was actually standing in front of Martinez when he took the shot.

And then Flamini went down after a challenge and I can’t be sure to be honest but the ref gave a penalty to Arsenal. I think the assistant actually signalled it maybe? And with the score of 3-0 even Taylor thought it didn’t matter that much. Write it down this date in history after 10 months we got a penalty again. Cazorla converted it.

A minute later Begovic had to be very alert when a shot from Welbeck almost went in. From the resulting corner Ramsey volleyed it in. 3-2 and still 20 minutes to go.

Ok Arsenal getting too close to a comeback so Taylor had to do something. After letting Crouch hit Arsenal players he booked Chambers for the second time for a small pulling foul in the middle of the field. Surely he couldn’t let Arsenal come back completely. Arsenal down to 10 man. This surely would have killed of any team.

Adams trying to separate the head of Alexis from his body only got a yellow for his failed attempt. But Arsenal pressing for a equalizer now even with a man down. Stoke even bringing on an extra defender for the final minutes. Taylor adding to stop Arsenal by calling a wrong throw. Taylor now giving us nothing any more. Much to the disbelief of Welbeck who asked him if he still knew him from Manchester United.

Campbell coming in the last minutes in the place of Gibbs. But the pressure with 10 man didn’t pay off. After a disastrous first half with Wenger having done what the keyboard managers had told him to do a few weeks earlier we fought bravely back but got nothing to show for it at the end.

One can wonder of course what would have happened if Taylor had sent off Crouch instead of Chambers…. Another disastrous performance from the ref as far as I could see on my blurry stream.

But one bit of good news came out of Newcastle. Arsenal still are the only real invincibles. That puts a bit of plaster on the dropped points today.

 

179 comments to Stoke – Arsenal: Keyboard managers exposed, bad start, great comeback till Taylor stepped in

  • Alex

    we will get better.
    thanks walter!

  • Andrew Crawshaw

    Just once I would love a referee to prove my preview wrong!

  • Horrible refereeing. He was giving us yellow cards for nothing. And not giving fouls against us. I normally raise my hands when we are beaten but there was way too many decisions going against us. Except for that off side for the 4th goal and a penalty which the referee on the side pointed out, we were being just thrown off the ball.

    Anways since most of our top teams dropped, we can be glad that we only will maximum lose one position if swansea wins against west ham.

  • Peter

    Good analysis regarding Gibbs and the referee. How Gibbs allowed the crosses for the first and second goals was amazing. Maybe one of the first things you teach a defender is to block the crosses. He was standing so close and could have raised his leg and yet just allowed the guy to cross. That was criminal “defending”. Can’t really blame Bellerin on the goals.

    There will be more of this whenever Taylor referees the matches.

  • Nishant

    Crouch should have been sent off in the first half. Would have changed the match.

  • Shakabula Gooner

    Great game for Stokes. Wished we had our stable back four for this game but that hadn’t been the case for a while now and it showed.
    Negative: Our hoodoo in Stoke extended.
    Positive: Ramsey ended his goals drought; and in Stoke.

  • ARSENAL 13

    Well, I call it a pipe dream Andrew.

    Keep on dreaming.

  • colario

    Wouldn’t we all Andrew. Wouldn’t we all.

  • Rantetta

    Andrew
    Thanks for doing the previews. Given the research undertaken to put the previews together, it might be “silly” to expect them to be wrong. Especially re: the usual suspects. All the same; hang in there, please.

    Thanks Walter. For the first time in awhile, I felt unable to watch the live action, so your summary made interesting reading. I had no idea anyone had been sent off, though, when I checked back into the game on 85mins, I saw Welbeck get kicked and our dear friend give the kick to Stoke, which is what I’d have expected to happen from minute one.

    Don’t be depressed, Arsenal supporters. The time will come when all this shitestuff that’s happening will come out, and we will still be up there and playing the best football and being the best team. And Arsenal still won’t be cheating.

    COYG

  • dan

    Well being short on defensive numbers is down to one man. Call me keyboard warrior, but, I believe this site already expected a negative outcome today, and our manager doesn’t fail to disappoint. We seem to have a hangover when playing certain teams !!

  • Khan

    We can give all the excuses we want, Walter. It just boils down to one thing. Paper thin defence options has done us in again today.Too many ifs & buts. We already knew Taylor is the ref officiating today & of course we have a history with him. Also with the Potters. So we should have been ready for all this. But the sheer manner in which we gave away the first goal was dastardly, to say the least! Add to that, no one was covering Bojan for the 2nd and the 3rd from Jonathan. That is clearly a lapse in strategy, new defenders or experienced! Also, we got 9 corners today!!! 9. And we converted 1, thanks to a moment of brilliance from Ramsey. We have had 115+ penalties this season. And this was just our second conversion.(Plus Giroud missing a sitter of a header, when we could not afford to miss one) Why isnt anyone talking about our setpieces??? Its easy to blame everything in the world but ourselves. But please, Walter. The sooner we realise our problems and genuinely sort them out, the better. We are also Arsenal fans. We are not AAAs here, but when there is a problem we have to point it out & look forward to sort it. Clearly too many problems for us. Professeur really has to look into this & sort it asap, instead of just saying we can beat Chelsea to the top spot. I still have faith in Wenger. Hope he looks into the problems & sorts it out instead of a bandaged approach. Please Arsene please…
    On the brightside, happy to see Aaron getting back at the Potters & score a brilliant one. Hope this is a start of great things from him! COYG…

  • Pete

    (Un?)fortunately, I missed the first goal due to streaming issues. The subsequent two were poor. I am sure Wenger desperately wanted to play Koscielny but the guy wasn’t fit enough. Losing Monreal too was a big blow as I think he has been very good playing at CB. Chambers and Mertesacker together didn’t work well at all. And losing Koscielny also negatively impacted us in the aerial duels. And Martinez, while not a nightmare, did show his inexperience – but he is #3 choice GK. Ditto Bellerin at RB.

    I also thought our defence gave the ball away in our own half far too often. Mertesacker 3 or 4 times – very uncharacteristic.

    1st half was really poor – but it has been a tough run of games – and less than 3 days since the last one. Stoke had a day more to prepare.

    I would advocate writing off the slim-to-none chance of topping the CL group and playing a complete set of reserves midweek – perhaps with Szcz, Debuchy and any other returning players if they need game time.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Thanks Walter, some great points as usual. This referee is a joke, expect to see him as many times as the pgmol can inflict on us this season. They are really going for us at the moment, they clearly smell blood. Mason against Liverpool?
    Still think the club need to do something about the standard of refereeing….just as wenger needs to do something about the standard of our defending at times. I cannot see any other top club putting up with this refereeing without at least doing a Rafa or Gary monk. Does Ivan really not mention all this when on his various committees, I really hope he is not letting all this go.
    But refs aside, we are worryingly dependant on some key players, namely Kos. We cannot afford to be so dependant on him at the moment, we need others in a position to really step up. The lapses in concentration are also worrying.

  • Yassin

    Well yes you did miss two things:

    1- penalty on Sanchez in the first half, surely no replay to it. Sanchez and the ball went back between two players, the ball passed and he didnt.
    2- That foul on Sanchez (where the heck is the yellow?), he played it fast ( there was to player standing in front of it not to let him play, but he did. Then it went to Giroud one on one (after enough time had Taylor wanted to get ot back). Then when he knew it was going to be dangerous, he stopped it.

    By the way, their disallowed goal and our penalty were signaled by assistants and not taylor.

    This is disgusting.

    The only way to stop Stoke, is by stop their crosses (you cant be sure they will not harm you when they cross that much). But that was impossible today, those little imaginary fouls he gave them, those fouls on us that he didnt gave.
    And by the way ,Walter, wasnt there a foul on Crouch on their third goal? He mept on climbing on our players back all day.

  • George

    We lost this game tactically. We all know that against Stoke you need fighters on the field. I am not convinced that the starting line up is the best against Stoke. The team that came out for the second half was much more balanced. Again our lack of depth was clearly evident, and all this can be traced to decisions made in the transfer window particularly regarding a centre back and a defensive midfielder. Having said that I should highlight and underscore that the spirit in the team should be commended.

  • bjtgooner

    Walter, I thought I would wait for your article before commenting. I fully agree with your match report.

    We did defend badly especially in the first half – I was not overly surprised as I felt we did not have enough tall players on the field and that we would struggle on set pieces.

    Second half – a great fight back, but overall a disappointing result in which Taylor the turd played a very major part.

    On the plus side – well done to our guys for showing great spirit in that fight back, also it was good to see Ramsey finding the net again – lets hope that starts him on a good run!

  • ARSENAL 13

    @khan.

    Let’s say you are right. Let’s agree with all you’ve said. We are paper thin in defense. We don’t have a dhee eehm. We don’t…. Crap. We are shit.

    Now what?
    Does that change anything?

    Your opinion, my opinion, Walters opinion means nothing to Arsenal.
    Its up to us. Its up to us, you support Arsenal then do it. Support. Our support means a lot to players.

    Go gunners. We support. In good or bad.

  • dan

    Mandy
    Manu are supposedly going through a transition, what is our excuse? We are poor, the refs are sad and we know that, but, we haven’t won at the Britannia stadium since 2010 and we .haven’t beaten the mancs since 2011

  • Mandy Dodd

    Good points Pete, Monreal has been a key player lately, a perfect storm of things going against us, but I guess at least we showed spirit in the second half. Agree also on Per and Cc, unfortunately they have yet to develop much of an understanding. Sadly, events have left us in a bad way defensively. Yes, we should have factored in the level of injuries we traditionally get and bought another defender in the summer…..four out and two in is not good mathematics. I do expect us to strengthen this Jan, Per is another worry, he must be into the redder than red zone.
    We need a much improved second half of the season, by whatever means needed to get it.

  • Yassin

    @khan?

    We should have been ready for this?
    this is injustice? Man up and defend your teams for once! What a damn excuse?

    How about I tie your hands and get you against a kid into a fight and when you lose I tell u, yeah you should have beem ready for this?

    Its your type (and yiu Dan) who keep those cheaters safe in their jobs! We played good or bad that was injustice. No way I can accept this no matter how bad we played, no matter. Get me a level field and then tell me its our mistake we lose.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    It was a game of two halves – Our defense was left ball watching in the first halft and the referee determined not to allow anything our way (except the bleedingly obvious) in the second. We can only blame ourselves for this defeat for being so inept in the first half. Something has to be said about our wasted chances today and Cazorla’s continued lack of shooting boots (not withstanding the penalty kick).

  • Pete

    Re defenders, I think Hayden might have done very well over the last few weeks… had he been fit. It is on things like that that top level careers succeed or fail. A big, strong boy – ideal against the likes of Stoke.

    As ever, the biggest issue is with the injuries. It is totally unrealistic to expect Arsenal to play consistently well when they are missing 8 or 9 1st team squad players. All the time (although the “who” obviously varies). Even when players come back they need games to get match sharp again.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Don’t know about excuses Dan, and yes, we were poor today, we put in too many repeat performances against usual suspects, but in mitigation, terrible refereeing, injuries to key players. Not sure what we can do about the refereeing, but injuries either need reducing by whatever means, or we need to be in a position whereby we have adequate cover, we have not always had adequate cover defensively, we have been playing rookies in defence and in goal. Talented rookies maybe, but such inexperience will lead to mistakes. Defending when Kos is not playing is something it would appear the manager…and coaches need to get to grips with or at least it seems that way on occasion.
    As for Utd, with what they have spent, they haven’t really got any excuses.

  • AL

    Perfect summary Walter, having people play in different positions caused the jitters in the first half. But boy what a fightback. This team is made of something else I tell you. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone looking dejected even in the face of some very obvious biased officiating. Just wait till we are able to field a full strength side.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Mandy Dodd – I agree but ManU are above us, beat us and starting to put in some solid performances. Injuries for us is nothing new (frankly tiresome) and yet we never address the lack of defensive depth of the squad. We have world-class to excellent attacking midfielders in spades but defensively 5 players who can cut the grade (even that is suspect). We simply do not address our defensive depth season after season.

  • dan

    Mandy
    sorry to put you on spot.

    We have coherent squad, allegedly. I’ve never seen us play such a flat game. This season may prove to be the worst.

  • Khan

    @ARSENAL 13

    Agree with what you have said. That’s why I mentioned in the end that Wenger should go for a proper solution than the bandaged approach we have been following for sometime now. I dont go out to all forums & lament about our team. Support doesn’t mean we turn a blind eye to everything. Just saying that there IS a problem & the sooner we realise & mend it the better for us. We are Gooners after all. We want our team to do well & reach the heights where we are meant to be. Frustrated that has not been happening!

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    I don’t think we’ve ever fielded a full-strength squad in consecutive games for yonks. Can only happen when we have some depth in defense.

  • Khan

    @ Yassin

    This is not the first time we have had referee issues. This forum itself has countless articles on the same. In fact, the preview for this match itself suggested things on those lines. You are unnecessarily getting aggressive with me when all of us know what I said is true & there is hardly most of us, including the Boss can do in this regards. Let alone criticise the said person publicly. So we can only do the next best thing possible. Be prepared for it & work our strategies accordingly. No point getting all hyper on me!

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Khan – I applaud you sir. This is nothing new and rather than just bury our heads in the sand in the hope that things will be put right in ref land we should be looking at an internal solution. It’s okay to complain about refs every time we lose but what are we doing about it?

  • Mandy Dodd

    But too many enforced changes at the back Dan, including players who for some reason do not play well together. Also issues with defending as a team, not every game, but especially prevalent when Kos and Arteta missing.
    Wengers way of playing generally needs a large degree of continuity, confidence ,trust and familiarity between players, despite squad looking strong, but ultimately, way way too many injuries, don’t have the stats, but I am guessing at unprecedented levels. And shit refs not helping in terms of decisions, and our players taking unnecessary kicks. I am amazed the club at least appear so accepting of some of the refereeing we are experiencing

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    Guess we should just chalk this up to bad refereeing and accept 4th place year after year. This is totally unacceptable and so the club either addresses this with the PGMOL or change tactics. I haven’t seen either in the last God knows how many years so something has to give and unfortunately that lies with the management of the club!

  • ARSENAL 13

    @khan.

    You don’t understand.

    YES it was poor defending. It was our doing and we rectified, to sunne extent, it within the game. We were stronger defending towards the end of the half and then in the second.

    BUT, then there was poor refereeing too. An external factor that can’t be ignored. Where is the level playing field??..

    To criticize a person, there has to be an objective analysis first. Without a level playing field, objective analysis cannot be had.

    Regarding the ‘blind eye’ thing. What makes you think Arsenal is not looking at it. If you can see it now, then the manager has seen it well in advance. And he has decided to let these things work itself out for the achievement of long term goal, rather mull over short term patch work.

  • dan

    Mandy
    It’s a worrying never ending trend, the club are accepting this level of mediocrity officiating. Also troublesome our generalisation that we fall foul of and never address the issues which cost us .

  • Yassin

    @Khan,

    Then fine if its how you see it.

    But me, If my son just scrapping the C grade in school, I will not accept any teacher to give him injustice and then when he fails, tells me he should have been ready for it and not score so low so that he fail when I take away marks for nothing!

    Its not about mistakes that cant be corrected. am sure those players know what the mistakes they are doing. but why do they do it again and again and again? is it the pressure? the lack of concentration? do they fear the pressure of the media and the fans when they lose?

    In addition, lets get back to the game, we are playing 4 defenders, Chambers and Bellerin not experienced enough? they are not long enough,and to play to Stoke and not concede, what should you do? defend the crosses or not let them cross in the first place? I say the second choice, then how you do that? hold the ball? don’t give it to them?let them stand on the back foot and hope for a counter? then tell me how can any player do that when he is being fouled and the fouls are given against him? how should this team take away pressure of these two kids and the kid GK behind, when those decisions are made by that ref? How could you ( through your supposed bias to Arsenal) still see those CHEATING in the second half when we were going for the equalizer, and still not get furious at the ref? just tell me how do you do it? I want to do it too!

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    Have to agree, if the level of refereeing is this bad then the club has to be brought into question for not being more proactive. If we have been penalised by the PGMOL for the last few (God knows how many) years then what are they doing about it? If nothing then how about we address it within the squad?

  • Mandy Dodd

    I would possibly go as far as suggesting the club are being negligent on this matter, apparent inaction is letting down players, supporters and ultimately, investors….unless of course they are trying to do something behind the scenes, and if they are, they are hiding it well.
    Many other managers and clubs have put direct and public pressure on mike Riley, if Gary Monk can do it, so can Arsenal.
    Untold are consistently predicting the performances of these officials, and increasingly which refs will do certain games. The club must be at least as aware of this as us humble Untolders.

  • Khan

    Anyways, these are external factors(Refs & fouls) and not much can be done about it. What can be done is getting back to full strength, reducing our injury lists & adding more spine to our team.
    Looking forward to AW finding a long term solution come January & our injured players showing our true potential once they are back. This match is done & dusted. Over to the next one, guys! COYG all…

  • TommieGun

    Not a fun game to watch. Awful decision making by the ref, and it was obvious that our players were really getting confused by the one sided decisions.

    But have to say that relatively speaking, for a Stoke WWE team, that plays both Shawcross and Adam (two thugs) they were less violent then their usual self. AND we got a penalty and a disallowed goal for Stoke which were, in my opinion, decisions that 95% of the time we don’t get (of course they were both justified I’m just saying usually we get those important decisions wrong, against us).

    Everybody is talking about our defense but I think that in the beginning of the seasons Chamo and BFG were paired together and it worked out very well, it was Gibbs and Bellerin that were at fault but generally I thought we just lost the aerial battles to Crouch and that’s a shame since it is expected that they will cross balls at his 8’4″ giraffe-like head. Anyway it was our attack that failed to deliver. We had 1 shot on target throughout the first half and it just doesn’t make any sense since our midfield is head and shoulders better than that bunch of carpenters. No creativity, no vision, nothing. A lot of selfish moves that ended up with nothing. It changed of course in the second half but was not enough in the end.

    Happy that both Santi and Rambo scored but overall a disappointing result especially when KGB lost and Manure are playing Southampton (so we could have made real great progress this weekend).

  • Yassin

    @5th Gen Gooner,

    What?

    “if the level of refereeing is this bad then the club has to be brought into question for not being more proactive.”

    what is that?
    so instead of you asking for the PGMOL to give us justice, instead of you asking for the PGMOL head? You are asking for the Arsenal Management head for not doing anything!!!???

    and what is your job then sir? as an Arsenal fans, what should you be doing on the media and blogs then? shouldn`t you push for a level field? shouldn`t you start doing something about the PGMOL? shouldn`t you be screaming high that this has to stop? But you still blame the victim?!

    You know then, by your logic, those women being hit by their husbands all the time, should have been thrown in jail for not stepping up, and lets forget about the criminal? those black people who suffered slavery and died under it, deserves it and lets forget again the criminal? what is this you said above man? really? aren`t you angry or raged about what you witnessed by the ref? what type of a fan are you then? I though fans were biased towards their club, not against it!

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Mandy Dodd – Totally agree we (the club) are being negligent because this is old news. If the standard of refereeing cannot be addressed then Arsenal need to adapt. After all we’re not the only club that suffers with this infliction unless we’re talking conspiracy. LOL!

  • TommieGun

    I fail to see how people fail to see that refs are biased against Arsenal.

    Really.

    To debate whether the ref “cost us the game” is a different debate but really to try and say the refs are fair, or that they don’t influence the game, talk about delusions, man. ..

    If it was just down to giving the advantage to home teams, fine – but we are getting screwed at the Ems as well.

  • Florian

    On a slightly different note, I was a bit expecting us to stutter in this match. I keep thinking about the upcoming Galata game, which if we win we have a shot at the first place in the CL group. Unlikely but still possible. My impression was that we played at half speed in the first half hoping to hold them to a manageable deficit, and give them a beating in the second half. And it almost happened.

    The plan didn’t work out because of the humongous amount of injuries to our defenders, which forced Wenger to throw 3 youngsters on the pitch in an area where experience counts the most. You can get away with mistakes in midfield and attack, but in defense they are costly. And I don’t mean this as a critique, there was little Wenger could have done about it. Blaming him for the defense woes is hindsight 20/20. This was a gamble that didn’t pay off. Bellerin didn’t stand a chance against the likes of Crouch, Walters and Diouf, each one of them about 10″ taller.

    The penalty, I could see Taylor reluctantly going to the assistant, who was waving his flag too vehemently to be ignored.

    Now, back to the positives, you could see what this goal meant to Ramsey. He struggled for confidence lately, and this well-taken goal will surely be a turning point for him. He’s not your explosive player, like Alexis for instance, his style is to grow with every game. Even after the goal, his work rate went up, his passing got better, and he covered the midfield in the absence of Flamini (deployed at right back) and Chambers, by dropping back alongside Per, after the useless Taylor sent him off for daring to touch a Stoke player with anything else than a feather.

    To close the circle, before the match, Wenger said even a draw would be a good result. I don’t think he meant that as a praise to Stoke’s quality, he was only implying that we’d be happy to get away without injuries, which we mostly did. I expect Kos to be back for Tuesday, having been spared for this atrocity of a match, and our forward line to rely more on bullying the Galata defenders, who have real trouble this season, so much that even an Italian can’t sort it out.

  • Hemm

    I wasn’t worried about our record, just media bullshit suggesting it could be broken is what works me up. And about Wenger this conversation has gone on long enough, I agree he doesn’t seem to be able to change things around atm. But 2 windows where he could spend and the team already looks much better. January is not far off let’s see what he does then (though I still find it incompetent we have to wait till January for a defender)

  • dan

    Yassin
    You can’t compare slavery and domestic violence with a lack of speach. Another thing many overlook even this blog predict the level bias one can expect with many of the official s
    .

  • Hemm

    The Jekyll and Hyde bullshit fucking attitude of this team is beyond a joke now. It’s not fair on the fans.
    To play like absolute shit in the first half only to come out firing in the second is just not good enough. The players should give half of their fuckin pay this week back to the club, they only worked 45/90.

    And Anthony Taylor. You fucking bald headed cheating prick, go die in a fire. Bullshit red card, WHO CALLS A FOUL THROW IN THE BPL?!? Nearly every throw is a foul throw but you call one to disrupt our momentum. Ridiculous calls all game. Do one you fucking arsehole.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Yassin – You are are a clown of the first order sir! Only the club can formerly complain. Do you think the PGMOL gives 2 sh!ts what you or I think? Get a life and a real perspective!

  • Jammy J

    Walter, i seem to agree with nearly everything you say regarding football, but in the instance of the Swansea game and using Chambers instead of Bellerin i cannot. I love Arsene Wenger and i hope that he stays at this club for as long as possible, but i feel that he did make a mistake there. I dont like to say it, but Chambers had a awful game. I dont hold this against him, because he is still very young and he was against a skilled opponent. There would have been nothing to loose using Bellerin instead as i think Chambers was beaten each and every single time that game. At the very least Bellerin could have matched the opponent for speed and in doing so, perhaps stopped a few crosses going in.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Yassin – Expect to hear the same diatribe from you in 10 years. Tw@t!

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    We have been complaining about the poor level of refereeing for years as well as Wengers tactics. Neither listen to us because why would they? Only the club can affect change so babbling on about slavery is just nonce.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Yassin I am furious about Taylors performance today but I cannot and will not excuse the defensive ineptitude in the first half of our team. Stop making excuses for the world being against us and start accepting we do hold some modicum of fate in our own hands. We simply weren’t good enough in the first half, accept it. Don’t blame everyone and their dog because we played like the Keystone cops in our own third! Yes the ref was a culprit but we allowed Stoke to put 3 past us!

  • Yassin

    @5th Gen Gooner,

    It is not the first time you reply to me with a clown, and taht twat is awesome. You know what I call those who answers that way on blogs away from real life? cowards!! I am sure you are more of a coward to say that in my face, or anyone face!!! calling people names on the net is just a cowardly thing, and you, sir, is the biggest of them all!!!

  • Tom

    So we go down 3:0 to Stoke with no goals attributed to wrong calls but it was Taylor who cost us the game?

    What cost us the game was lack of proper defending first and foremost.

    We can all bitch and moan about referees but until we address the issues within our own control, we will never improve enough to win the league.

    Let’s take for example the lackadaisical defending by Gibbs , who at times looks like a winger playing left back.
    There was a game last season against Everton at home if I remember correctly. Arsenal were up one nill late in the game, when the ball found its way to Gerard Deulofeu in our penalty area. Gibbs was marking him and failed to stick out his leg to block the Barcelona loanee’s strike.
    Szczesny had no chance. Final score 1:1.

    There were other instances where Gibbs and other Arsenal players failed to attempt to block crosses that resulted in goals costing us points.

    These are not mistakes , but rather examples of not enough effort put in by our players.

    Questions have to be asked of Arsen Wenger, if he holds his players accountable, or does he just ask them what they should have done in those situations after the game.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Yassin – Oh by the way, Arsenal has regularly (most home games some away) received money from me via the turnstiles for the last 30+ years. How much of yours do you give? I am a true supporter sir which allows me to give criticism (I would hope) when things are going good or bad!

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Yassin – Not really, would be glad to tell you to your face!

  • Yassin

    @Dan,

    am not comparing, am showing how justice has to be, whether that is slavery or a game between to children! and where was the lack of speech [resented in my comment anyway? please elaborate, I didnt get you

  • dan

    some of us are way to ready to praise and some are very ready to hate. Why not be fair? Let’s praise the management and board when it’s due and let’s critisise when called for.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    AW – “We did not do what we promised ourselves from the start of the game and that’s something that makes you angry.” and no mention of the standard of refereeing. Perhaps he’s too much of a gentleman to criticise the ref but if that’s the case then we should stop talking about official injustice when even the manager does not mention it!

  • Yassin

    @Tom,

    Two Points:

    1- Stoke are much better than our defense (youngsters) in defending crosses. That point can be denied ( and I think you love tactics) by holding the midfield and not let them have the ball. So how can some team, who are more reliant on that, make this when they can not hold the ball in midfield due to fouling ( while they cant foul back). In the same half, we were denied a penalty on Sanchez ( which everyone forgot about it), and a goal chance which Taylor stopped (according to the laws, the stoke players were near the ball and we could have restarted the game without waiting the whistle, remember the Henry quick freekicks).

    2-The game is 90min and not 45min.
    so if we could have got back, then we would have got 1pt or maybe 3? but then the ref stopped us, deliberately. this again made me believe it was him who cost us the match.

    By the way, whether it was our fault or not, I still believe you should be furious of what the ref made in the game, man it was obvious cheating! the red? the throw? what else do you want to see to get angry about it?

  • dan

    Yassin
    We have a board and people in right places within the setup, yet the lack anything vocal or questions confronting this matter have been heard.

  • Yassin

    @ 5th Gen Gooner,

    yes that is the way you see it then? money? so you measure it with money, I think you benefited Arsenal a lot by your money. but if you cheer them the same way you do here, I think you benefited them enough with you negativity too!!!

    And yes, you will be glad!

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Dan – You are a philosopher sir, I applaud you. We are more than aware of the faults within our game and the PGMOL. When is something going to change? We can all cry in our corn flakes about refereeing standards and poor defensive performances but only the club can do something about it.

  • Yassin

    @Dan,
    I believe you didnt get my point, its not that Arsenal management should not be doing anything? its not with you man, its with those who keeps all day saying we should not blame the ref, and then when they cant deny it, they just turn it to something else.

    Yes the management should do something, I ve said it before, Mandy always do.. Its just the way its been said. When me, you, and Mandy,… ask for PGMOL to stop this, and then ask Arsenal to do something, is different when someone comes here every single time and tell us we should stop blaming the ref, and them get with that sentence. Sorry but I cant accept that.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Yassin – Obviously a dodgy streaming supporter as you dodged my question! I support the team not just with my version 1.0 eyeballs but with my feet (hard earned wages) too. I have every right to say what I feel without being subjected to inept comparisons of wife beating and slavery by you. Your comments to Tom are bordering on the desperate ramblings of someone who just cannot accept being beaten. Yes the ref cost us but we wouldn’t need the ref to reverse his dodgy rulings if we didn’t gift Stoke 3 goals!

  • Nicky

    This inept or biased refereeing, match after match in which Arsenal is involved, is becoming quite ridiculous….if it wasn’t so serious.
    In every post mortem on these pages, the issue is the same. We were penalised unfairly, the opposition’s fouls went unpunished and the match official(s) cost us the dearly.
    I think we can rightly presume that the Arsenal governance feels the same way as the contributors to this site, so what are they doing about it?
    There is little point appealing to the PGMOL. Poachers won’t sort out fellow poachers.
    Try the FA? A weak body without the will to investigate what is clearly gravely wrong among the very officials who should be sacrosanct in controlling the sport on the field of play.
    The introduction of a video- assisted appeals procedure is now becoming a matter of urgency. If it is used in rugby and cricket, there is no reason why not in football. Matches would take longer to complete but that is the price to be paid for greater integrity. Those attending games would see 90 minutes of actual play…for a change.
    I believe there is an association of EPL Chairmen which, if it operates fairly, must have considerable weight in the sport. Let the Arsenal Board now lead the way in pressing for the necessary changes to put officialdom on an honest footing….at long last.
    The opportunity is there. Show us the will.

  • dan

    5th
    The club are heading towards a bright future, financially, our brand has truly rocketed, but the team hasn’t moved from the usual expectations of finishing in last CL spot.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Tom, I thought Wenger looked pretty pissed off after the game, he rarely has a go at players on public, but I can imagine he was far from happy with some of that in the privacy of the dressing room. He may not be a hair dryer merchant, but I would imagine he gets his point across, so I would imagine the players are accountable. Trouble is, with our injuries , namely in defensive positions, he cannot really drop, rotate or whatever you want to call it. It is now clear that a mistake , though I am sure an honest mistake has been made with defensive strength in depth, we have nowhere enough to get through three games a week. Per looks like he is approaching empty, hardly surprising, though he does perk up when his mate Kos is around. Kos has his own issues, Bellerin and Chambers are rookies, though the latter has players virtually every game. Not sure Gibbs is fully fit, but with Monreal out and Flam needed in MF, he virtually had to play. Not sure what has happened to Hayden, he has gone into a Gnabry like black hole…..a real shame.That , along with at times a lack of MF cover, and bent or incompetent officials is a recipe for problems in anyone’s book.
    Was Sanogo injured as well? He could have been useful out there?

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Yassin – Do you seriously believe that what is mentioned here affects how the Arsenal board address the PGMOL if they even do?

  • ThomB

    Its been a while since i witnessed this level of obvious bias from a referee. Disgusting enough to put you off watching football

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Mandy Dodd – I agree but our defense is ridiculously weak in cover and there is no excusing a management team that doesn’t at the very least double up in cover! It seems unless Per, Kos, Debauchy, Gibbs and Chambers is fit we’re bu@@ered!

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Dan – Yes I agree, we need to start raising the bar and not keep struggling across the line every year.

  • dan

    Mandy
    So very very true, many showed their concerns regarding our shallow defensive cover.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Yassin – Spoken like a true yellow belly. Past your bedtime?

  • Mandy Dodd

    Nicky, there is someone who should be able to help in these matters , our football CEO of the year, recognised as one of the smartest guys in the game….the link mentions his various roles, he really has quite a sphere of influence at home and abroad.
    http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/ivan-gazidis-appointed-to-key-european-roles
    Can only think highlighting certain issues may make things worse for the club in some way, we always finish in the top four, maybe some do not want to rock the boat?
    Actually, no, I remained baffled at the clubs inaction over the refs, especially as our players are getting injured because of it.
    If I could ask Ivan anything at one of his meetings,it would be along the lines of why don’t the club do something about bias and incompetence of officials we seem to face disproportionately. But something tells me such a question would not get through or would get a politicians answer.
    Or maybe those guys just know things we don’t?

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Mandy Dodd – Think it would be a PC answer.

  • Strus

    It was far better game than last 4 years in Stoke, but some defensive play (2 first goals) today was real shambles. If only Giroud and Sanchez finishes from big chances were better, Arsenal could still win this!
    The ref was a cheat, serious one. How is he still allowed to referee a match Of AFC?

    Arsenal has 7 less points than in last year in these fixtures, 3 less than in any one of last 5 seasons(in other 4 seasons has 26,32,28,30 pts).
    Last year was 20 goals for, 15 against(7 CS), this year is 23 for and 18(5 CS) against.
    Injuries don’t make any favour.

  • Yassin

    Really? dodged your question? of how much I spent on Arsenal so that you are awesome? past my bedtime? Clown? Tw@t?….
    Man is that all you can do, you dodged my first post with a clown comment! then you went to start your b*llshit talking. Which I had no interest in it. man you are the one who is talking like a “past his bedtime”!
    please talk some sense and stop this childish things!

  • Mandy Dodd

    Maybe 5 Gen, but really hope they are doing something behind the scenes at least. Just reading the official site, wenger pretty scathing on the Chambers red, when other players were putting elbows in faces but stayed on the pitch .but he also conceded we defended poorly and were slow at the back. Pretty sure we will see a new defender in Jan.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    We have had issues with the poor standard of refereeing for years but this season having the lowest points tally in decades can not all be attributed to the PGMOL.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Mandy Dodd – I really hope we address the defensive cover in Jan.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Yassin – No answer then? Thought so!

  • Mandy Dodd

    With Jack injured, and Arteta having real problems think we will get at least a loan Cm as well. Flam will not be able to play for the rest of the year. Hear there is quite a good CM in Paris who can’t get a game who would come in handy.

  • Yassin

    on not keeping a fourth consecutive clean sheet…
    That shows that in every single game you have to be committed and focused from the first minute onwards. We were a bit unlucky because the third goal was a foul on the corner. Still, we were defensively not good enough today.
    on the red card…
    It was a bad decision. If Chambers has to go off today, I can watch with you the game and I’ll find you five more players who should go.
    on whether he was made an example of unfairly…
    I don’t know. I don’t want to comment too much on the referee’s decision. Watch the game again and watch what happened on the pitch. I don’t think that Chambers deserved to be sent off if compared to some other people who put arms and elbows in faces.

    Just to put this here from Arsenal.com, 3rd goal, ref card.

  • Nicky

    @Mandy Dodd,
    You may well be right about the inaction to date.
    In my dotage, I naively forget that since professional football became big business, the pure financial aspect of the club’s business seems to take precedence.
    The attendance of 60,000 will never diminish, neither will sponsorship, shirt and kit sales or advertising. Our global support and reputation historically, are to high for that.
    Why bother too much about dodgy results?

  • Mandy Dodd

    Just read that, will rephrase, Flam not out for the rest of the year! Not yet at least… meant to say he will not be expected to play there all year without backup in the event of Artetas problems continuing

  • Gianni Dioro

    For their 3rd goal, there was a shove on Oxlade-Chamberlain by Shawcross that gave Crouch a ton of room to make a free header.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Nicky – Good point especially since Wenger himself raised that qualifying for the CL is worth 30 million but winning the FA cup is only worth 1.5 million. Seems economics is the name of the game here.

  • bob

    Here goes UpChuck at his customary un-redcarded ways, thanks to the miscreant Anthony Taylor. And Chambers gets sent off to kill our upsurge!!! View it and get out the red cards for Taylor’s next appearance. That poor excuse for spittle needs to be called out with an ocean of red cards pointed at him, next time he soils our pitch with his presence. Behold:
    http://www.caughtoffside.com/2014/12/06/video-charlie-adam-commits-horrific-choke-hold-on-arsenal-forward-alexis-sanchez/

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Gianni Dioro – Totally agree but then even by that exception we’d have been playing for a draw. Just not good enough for AFC.

  • gouresh

    We go banging about how stable our club is financially and how solid our foundations are. Which is excellent, don’t get me wrong. On the pitch what should be the solid foundation? The defence and GK, and this has been our problem for years which has never been addressed since the invincible years. The importance of the defence cannot be overlooked because thats where u start. Their training, the videos simple things that they should do or not to do. Now the team is coached by AW who gave us some fantastic solid defence and strong physical and skilled midfield. Where is all that gone? We require about 10 chances to get one goal. How many chances did stoke get?

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    Mandy, I thought from the post game interview AW knows exactly what happened today,no wonder he looked pissed off-his comments on Chambers being sent off were quite clear and he did say how soft we were in the first half.
    Im glad he acted quickly on Bellerin at HT, certainly we were much better with Flamini at RB.Pers utterly lost without Kos as the whole team is, something needs to be done about that.I’d like to see Per more commanding at the back.
    I thought Poldis presence made us seem stronger too.In hindsight its easy to say perhaps he should have started and OG come on later?Who knows maybe Poldi would have had another off days.
    Please Gibbs, hold your position!Too many times now.I hope Ramsey after his goal now gets his fire back.We need it.
    It would have been Rosicky’s moment this season what a time to become injured!Too many injuries at the club this season-too much negativity somewhere in the club?Groddeck thinks so, I phoned him and he said “ja zer ist”.
    To much fear of Stoke too.The fear situation has been Bunyanised.The Ramsey incident hangs around too much, yes it was really awful,really awful, but its created a block for us in every game.Its affected all the blogs, everyone gets scared and already writes about broken legs etc before the game.What must the team think? I would say those thoughts manifested at 0-3 at HT.Time to clear that crap, its time to move on(imo).
    So the old cliché of a game of two halves, speculative on my part but had Chambers stayed on, I think we would have done it.But thats pure speculation.
    The moment we have a full team where everyone’s available and they click together, then its going to be quite something.Lets hope it happens very soon.

  • Jammy J

    Hey i know that there are a lot of bad feeling after this match (and thats understandable) but keep your heads up; Arsenal is a team for the future and i for one am extremely excited about it! Maybe not next season, but the season after i feel we will have a team strong enough to compete with the best of the best.

  • dan

    Bob
    sickening, even worse we,’ve heard Shit from the media. why isn’t our club making an issue here, a red fungus once claimed “it could kill him”

  • bob

    Mandy,
    I agree, with great sorrow, on your thought that IF Irving and Arsene were to go public with a massive J’Accuse against PGMOL, the repercussions would guarantee a non-top 4 finish. I still have to believe that the top 4 finish is required in our business model; and until we are beyond that requirement, we will not be free of the massive chronic refshite. Surely our composition is now “English” enough to be treated fairly. So it’s not that. Something will someday come out and nail these cheating scum.

    This said, the self-inflicted wounding is really phenomenal and must be dealt with. The defensive lapse at the last transfer window is metastasizing. And, as I see it, while I have hopes for a Giroud-Welbeck tandem, I shudder to think of how each of them alone has so poor a conversion rate. Witness Giroud’s missing that opportunity: Arsene and Stevie B. both buried their heads in hand at that missed opportunity. Something there is really amiss, and questions need to be asked about the quality of our striking force, rather than assume that all’s well thereabouts and the only problems are with a wounded defense.

    That said, there’s real hope in our fighting spirit to come back, only to be royally screwed by yet another of the bald-headed minions, the killer dwarfs of the hives of riley.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Gouresh – Well said. Despite our defensive problems we can’t hit the target the other end either. Just look at the ManU game as an example!

  • khitb77

    Yes the ref made terrible, horrific decisions BUT we were 3-0 down before we started to play.

    I can commend the team for the spirit they showed in the 2nd half but this all goes back to Wenger’s ineptitude in the summer.

    It’s too easy to blame officials or rugby playing Stoke idiots but we also have to credit them for putting us to the sword in the 1st half.

    Lastly, why when we were chasing a point did Wenger wait until injury time to bring Campbell on? He’d been warmed up for about 10 minutes!

  • GoingGoingGooner

    A disappointing first 35 minutes to the game. The first seemed a bit lucky but the lack of tracking back on the second was obvious to all. The third goal was a bit of a shambles…Crouch had a clear header because Shawcross pushed the Ox off. That said the Ox was not in position to head it only get in the way of another’s clear header.

    The strangling of Sanchez was just crazy. Not only did Adams yank him back by the neck, but he rather threw him down at the end AND only a yellow?

    Every time Crouch went up he was throwing his arms in someone’s face or was on their shoulders.

    In the end, we didn’t do enough to win. Our defense was porous at the start. Our late push back was enough to earn a draw perhaps.

  • Jerry

    @Walter,
    Good match report as usual!
    1 point that you also forgot to mention, I remember Martinez got fouled when kicking the ball up, ball sol landed with Sanchez who would have been one on one with the keeper, but Taylor called it back and Martinez had to do a goal kick. I was livid done this wad after Chambers got two very soft yellows

  • Pat

    I didn’t see the match. I read Arsene Wenger’s post match press conference. He said he had to play an inexperienced defence. He said Chambers did not deserve to be sent off. If he did, there were five others who should have been sent off first for elbows and arms in faces. He said: I do not want to comment on the ref. Look at the match yourself.

    Everything he said tallies with Walter’s report. It is very heartening that we nearly made a come back in the second half.

    @AL – I am consoled to read from your comments that the players kept their heads up and kept battling despite being three goals down and despite the desperately poor and biased refereeing. Which was correctly predicted.

    I don’t think Arsene Wenger wanted to risk certain key players like Koscielny who has been so good since he came back in the face of the thugs of Stoke and their willing assistant Taylor.

    Hopefully the strong team spirit will help Bellerin get over what can’t have been an encouraging experience. Still, Stoke with Taylor as the referee is part of the English Premier League experience and he might as well get his first go at it now.

    Until the Premier League and the English FA sort out the situation with the PGMOL, these experiences will continue to occur.

    Up the Arsenal!

  • Pat

    Just to clarify what Arsene Wenger said about the defence; he said we were a bit inexperienced in defence – we couldn’t play Koscielny or Monreal and we had Debuchy out as well.

    How many teams can afford to have three experienced defenders injured? Players then have to play out of position and mistakes are more easily made.

    I say again, congratulations to the players for nearly coming back and equalising.

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    Rugby.Except that would be illegal in Rugby too.Pure bullsh#t.

  • Pat

    @Alex

    Thanks for that clip. Shocking!

  • Alex Dieuzeide

    Oops, sorry. I didn’t notice the video in Bob’s link up here. Well, it’s worth watching it twice 🙂

  • Mandy Dodd

    Sad if the senior management at the club won’t do the right thing and protect the players due to economic reasons, the fans are also being short changed by the pgmol. But being a business now, guess those at the top have to make decisions in a different way than a passionate justice seeking fan. If this really is the price for a place in the top four, almost tempted to find something else. Wonder if the club would act if we did fall out of the top four? They must have enough evidence by now
    But just wish we didn’t make it so easy for the pgmol at times, Wenger really….really needs to sort out defending once and for all, it looks to me that some, maybe all apart from Kos could do with specialist defensive coaching and drilling, I hope they are getting just that. Could do with a Keown as well, wherever such a player may be found.
    Hope Charlie Adam is charged retrospectively for his attempt to emulate the antics of a group of US police on the unfortunate Eric Garner.
    Hearing reports of fighting amongst our fans, not good at all,

  • Khan

    @ Alex Dieuzeide

    That tackle got him only a yellow card, although we think anywhere on Earth this should have been a red card.
    Looking at this discussion on the referees (un)fairness, what comes to my mind is how Adam Sandlers men give a job to the Ref for hauling them unfairly. What say Gooners? Tony Taylor deserves a similar treatment 😉 ???

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    the polemics at our club:

    http://youtu.be/Xw_fDrQvXZI

    Mandys right lot of twitters reports fighting after the game, Gooner versus Gooner.Sad times to see.

  • 4evered

    After a disastrous first half with Wenger having done what the keyboard managers had told him to do a few weeks earlier we fought bravely back but got nothing to show for it at the end.

    Walter I cant work out if your saying the manager got it wrong on not ?

    I was there today the ref was crap but that is not the story of the game Stoke the fucking vermin of the league did not even play their normal rough house style as i have seen in previous years and did not have to play that well to beat us – the kid Bojan stood out as the best technical player on the pitch and our famous Manager was so un moved by the efforts of the team that he didn’t even bother to get off his seat for the entire match – I cant believe I wasted my whole day making the effort when the players and the manager don’t – should have gone Christmas shopping like you lot .

  • Yassin

    @Kenneth,

    Thank you for the link above, and thank him for the words he said!

  • Mandy Dodd

    Interesting clips Kenneth. Sometimes wonder if the man himself might make a decision that he could do without it all and call it a day early, I hope not but do wonder.
    Fans fighting, constant injuries, the media, the refs….who needs it….
    Not sure about today, that is a ref with a serious problem with something to do with Arsenal, and he was selected accordingly. But I fear that the wider issue is all to do with the powers that be ensuring that Utd get a top four berth this season, that could go right up to Scudamore….Riley wouldn’t offer much resistance to that. The reason, influential Utd supporters, and EPL brand enhancement, we are perhaps the most direct threat and rival to Utd, working on the assumption held by many that the top two is sorted. I fear this extreme ref shite could go on until it is pretty certain Utd should make the top four, they might want Liverpool there as well.
    That’s why Arsenals apparent club inaction is not only irresponsible to players and dans, it is morally wrong, it is extremely risky.
    But defending like that weakens any case we could have against the refs unfortunately

  • Mandy Dodd

    Above…irresponsible to players and fans, sorry Dan!

  • Ok enough is enough tony and Walter you have for quite a few years now accused mike Riley and the pmgol of being biased against arsenal football club you have in publishing your evidence on this site acquired quite a few followers who believe without question this to be true therefore is now not the time to publish and be damned collate your evidence and send by way of an open letter to both mike Riley and arsenal football club if you are correct and there is corruption in the pmgol then you will be doing a great service to all football fans around the world I would also encourage all those of you on untold who agree with tony and Walter to help them to collate all the evidence to be presented to pmgol if however you decide not to present your evidence maybe it would be prudent to stop your accusations both before and after the match about the integrity of the refs as this is beginning to have a very negative affect on a site that likes to portray itself ( quite rightly ) as a positive site hope I have not offended anyone but I would really like to see this issue resolved

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    As you go through all the fan tv clips most points dealing with the club are covered.
    Its such a weird time.To see how pathetic we were in the first half, then coming back and probably( spec. as I said already but the psychological momentum was with us)about to equalise and maybe nick the game, and the ref( who was predicted to mess up the game)sends off Chambers.
    It was interesting also to hear one fan talking about Crounch’s usage of elbow etc going unseen.
    Wenger in Wenger or out we shouldn’t have been 0-3 down at HT, not for a club that has certain ambitions as we do.
    Mandy,I wondered if Wenger might walk too.Sure is sad to hear of Arsenal fighting each other,its bad enough seeing the extreme forms of verbal fighting.Too much debate, not enough discussion.
    The trouble is the whole in/out crap has now gathered so much momentum that unless we win the league, how can it stop?Everyone’s on board, everyone’s talking about it, so its under a microscope at a really wide level it cant take the pressure off of itself.AW and the club must have a really strong sense tonight of whats going on.
    Somehow it kind of feels like the Xfactor culture of sensationalist sh#t and greed and quick chas-head fix is about to win.Perhaps the old world goes.But that which replaces it should know: the cat shall mew and the dog have its day.All things change Kundun.Youre next.

    Money made football exciting but is really ruined it for me.

    Sure hasnt been a good day for AFC.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Yes Kenneth, it now seems all about the manager, not sure wenger would want it that way. I don’t actually think he would walk , just a niggling doubt, but if he acts to improve,results, that doubt can go,away.
    Just watching motd, no sign of the Charlie Adam strangulation attempt, no surprise there! Let’s the FA off the hook, and Bet365 Stoke.
    But the pundits are right wenger needs to sort out defensive issues. Even rookies should not be defending that badly. Defensive issues have been going on for too long, there are no excuses for these repeated defensive collapses, especially when we end up chasing the game. Very frustrating, and damaging to the manager, he needs to put this right even if it means sacrificing long held principles. We are losing to lesser teams, and our defending is worse than lesser teams at times, cannot think of anything to gain in continuing playing like this.

  • Pat

    What evidence is there that the Arsenal management is not complaining about the refereeing? If the corruption is as deep seated as we suspect, is it that easy to solve?

    I notice that Match of the Day has highlighted the questionable decisions in the Manchester City match, but has not mentioned any of the questionable decisions in the Arsenal match, or highlighted any of the blatant fouls by Stoke players, or questioned the sending off of Chambers. They have just taken the opportunity to have a go at Arsenal. What’s new?

    Come on, Arsenal fans, what’s the panic? We’ve lost to Stoke at Stoke with Taylor as a referee. It’s scarcely the biggest shock in the world. We will rise again.

    As to fans fighting, maybe it’s about time some of the anti-Arsene Wenger so-called fans got told where to get off.

    This is on the day that Chelsea’s bid for invincibility fell flat on its face after 14 matches. Who was the manager of the real Invincibles? Arsene Wenger. And we’ve still got him. Aren’t we lucky?

  • Well pat from what I can gather on this site the deep seated corruption goes back to around 2005 so if arsenal have been complaining behind closed doors they have had very little success as you all seem to think things are getting worse so I think the only forward really on that issue is for a public complaint backed up with evidence if Arsenal don’t do that then either they don’t beleive there is corruption or they are aware of it and don’t wish to tackle it why that would be I have know idea

  • Tom

    Yassin

    ‘By the way, whether it was our fault or not, I still believe you should be furious of what the ref made in the game, man it was obvious cheating! the red? the throw? what else do you want to see to get angry about it?’

    Yassin my friend , I’m not oblivious to all those calls going against us by Taylor or any other PL referee, but I refuse to spend any of my time to get worked up about them and I’ll give you the reason why.

    It is my opinion that there’s something going on within the PGMOL regarding Arsenal, but if the club itself takes no stand against it then why would I?

    Furthermore , it’s my opinion that Arsen Wenger hasn’t done a great job at addressing or even manipulating referees or reporters for that matter.

    There was a time when he complained during and after games indiscriminately about referees, thus earning ridicule from all around.

    Now his responses to referee mistakes ,wether intentional or not , are more measured but mostly weak and lame. There’s so much evidence Arsenal are not getting a fair treatment from the PGMOL and he’s taking it laying down.

    I’ve given examples of things he could’ve said in his presser before and I got ridiculed for it on here. These reporters aren’t the sharpest tacks in the box, and it would’ve been so easy to make them look stupid and or incompetent for someone of Wenger’s intelect , but he won’t do it.

    I gave this example last season after a controversial non call for a foul on Suarez By Ox in FA cup game against Liverpool, when Arsen was asked if he thought Liverpool should’ve had a penalty. Now the reporter clearly implied in his question that Liverpool were hard done by.

    Wenger’s response was ; ‘ perhaps, yes’

    I suggested what he should’ve said was ; Yes I thought it was a penalty , but where were you last week when an identical challenge from Willian on Walcott in the Chelsea game , didn’t even raise a question from the press?

    I can give you a dozen of examples like that one or more but what’s the point.

    So yes I’m angry, but there’s absolutely nothing I can do about so I won’t spend time getting wound up about it. Wether the club can do something about it is another question it but I wish they tried.

  • Vince

    Arsenal can’t really do anything about the refeering, if they were to complain publicly, it would only make things worse, the media and their anti-Arsenal agenda (the fact that MOTD didn’t show Crouch wrestling or even Adam assault tells it all…) will make us look like whiners instead of investigating the issue.

    However I really hope that Arsenal will lodge a complaint to the police about that Adam strangulation attempt. That’s a clear and dangerous agression, similar to the one that led to the death of a men from a policemen in New York City. Just watch the reaction from Stoke fans in the background, they were horrified by this assault

  • Ben

    Totally agree that the referee was poor but our team was even poorer,man city were denied 3 clear cut penalties against man u but no one is making an issue of it,and they still did the business. I don’t think u can find a team in this league that makes as much mistakes as our team, so many misplaced passes, weak tackles and so on,and it has been happening for ever.when our players gets to the opposition penalty area they simply stop moving.so it makes it difficult for the person with the ball to make a forward pass and easy to defend against.it takes our defence for ever to play the ball out from the back,per is the chief culprit. we don’t use or set pices well and so rarely scores from them while at our end we can’t defend. I still maintain that our injury problem is not at all a coincidence.its foolishness to do the same thing and expect a different result.Its unbelievable how u’ll blame anything or anyone but not urself. u guys dat make excuses for wenger and the team all the time and never blame wenger for anything are worse than those that never see anything good in arsenal or wenger.Wengers time is up,simple.

  • WalterBroeckx

    4evered,
    My point is simple I think.

    Wenger did now what the keyboard managers told that he should have done during a match after taking the lead at Swansea.

    He didn’t do it then and was crucified for not doing it.

    Now he had to make the changes before the match. Not from free will but because injuries forced him into it.
    If all our defenders would have been fit he would never have started with that team. Never.

    So Wenger did what he could with the players available and placed them like the key board managers told him to do it.

    It was not the best solution.

    So the key board managers got it wrong when blaming Wenger after Swansea.

    Wenger got it wrong now because….he had no other options.

    He changed the formation at half time and did this to protect Bellerin I think.
    By the way I think Flamini did a good job at right back. But imagine the uproar if he would have done this from the start?

  • WalterBroeckx

    If there is anyone around who can give me clips of the 3 assaults I noticed from Crouch on Mertesacker twice and Chambers once I would be very glad.
    Also the neck grabbing on Alexis would be fine.
    Also the two fouls from Chambers that lead to him being sent off would be great.

  • WalterBroeckx

    And don’t worry about the referee reviews.
    They will show up in the next weeks but do to some personal disruptions I can’t find the time for the moment to work on them.
    Sorry about that

  • Sammy The Snake

    I’m amazed to see everyone’s reaction, as if this our first “bad day at the office” game of the season.
    Let’s look at the big picture: 23 points from 15 games. Disaster!

  • Quincy

    This is unacceptable. How can any neutral person watch that game and not see how bent the referee was. It was blatant. I’m fed up with this now.

    If Taylor isn’t demoted to the Championship we need to riot. This has gone too far. So many inexplicable and atrocious decisions.

    It’s time we did something about this. What about the idea of man that video compilation? There’s more than enough evidence from this game alone. Enough is enough! We have to do something!

  • Quincy

    “Chambers getting a yellow for holding Crouch who had been throwing his arms in every Arsenal player on the pitch with only one yellow card to show for it?”

    Actually, they were both holding each other. Even the comemtators said it was six of one and half a dozen of the other, i.e. very little in it.

    “Adams trying to separate the head of Alexis from his body only got a yellow for his failed attempt.”

    Someone please explain how holding a player back, with both arms, around the throat, and for several seconds after the ball is gone, is anything less than a straight red? Even the commentators said he would have been sent off in rugby.

  • Quincy

    Just for fun, here are two Man City players kung fu kicking the shit out of Everton, and only one yellow whown between them.
    http://www.thescore.com/epl/news/650710

    The Premier League, the greatest league in the world!

    FFS.

  • Jerry

    @Sammy,
    Even bigger picture, that’s 10+ points that refs have cost us this year!

  • 4evered

    WalterBroeckx
    December 7, 2014 at 12:28 am
    4evered,
    My point is simple I think.

    Wenger did now what the keyboard managers told that he should have done during a match after taking the lead at Swansea.

    but Walter – your suggesting that the change the Keyboard Managers wanted at Swansea eg Belerin failed or was somehow responsible in part for our loss – When infact it was clear to see that all stokes goals came down our left side where Gibbs was ?

    On Another note Tom Quinn makes a great point about your corruption allegations re the ref’s so will UA put it’s money where its mouth is and make representations to the premier league etc ?

  • Mandy Dodd

    Tom, can see where you are coming from, if , as it appears, the club won’t do anything, it is maybe pointless us getting wound up about it. There was a time when there would have been five or six players in the face of the ref after some of these decisions but it seems no longer. Has wenger been told by his employers or someone else to put a lid on things? Seems someone has maybe calmed this just and passionate man. I miss the Keown Vieira presence, the bottle kicking, the players in the refs face, the digs at the pgmol in press conferences. It has all gone very quiet, too quiet.
    It is not just today, it seems our lot with the refs has seemed especially bad this season. A plan for Utd, anti arsenal bias, wenger over staying his welcome, old fashioned corruption in brown envelopes, who knows.
    Walter, agree wenger would never have chosen that defence, especially in this game. Three rookies in defence and as gk…a horrible situation, and one that seems to have got to Per for all his valiant efforts. We are under strength in several aspects of defence, this needs urgent attention.

  • ljb

    Linking refereeing performances to violence against women or slavery is crass I the extreme.Yet again why no mention of the Stoke disallowed goal that would have made it 4.0?Ordoes that not suit your agenda.

  • Quincy

    Man City should have had two players sent off for kung fu kicks on Everton players. But they didn’t. Commentators couldn’t stop crying over Man City’s injuries: Kompany, Silva, and Aguero, ONLY THREE PLAYERS!

    Chelsea get six minutes of Mourinho time. They also fall to pieces when they lose Matic, ONE PLAYER! Chelsea NEVER rotate, but of course, only Wenger does that.

    How many do we have out? Szczesny, Ospina, Debuchy, Koscielny, Monreal, Arteta, Wilshere, Walcott, Gnabry, Ozil, Diaby, all of whom could have started or come off the bench.

    For some reason injuries are an excuse for Liverpool, Manure, and Man City, but not for us, oddly enough.

    And let’s not get started on the performance from Taylor! A look at the media and they hardly mention the atrocious game he had. At the very most they mention Wengers comments about the red for Chambers being a bit soft, but nothing more! This is absurd!

    We need to start an electronic petition to get Taylor demoted to the Championship. That’s my suggestion, we need to do something about the horrendous refereeing!

  • Quincy

    The only reason Man City won is because of a soft penalty in the first place.

  • Quincy

    Absolutely disgraceful that assault like this can be allowed on a football field:
    https://vine.co/v/Or7VIlOp1Qr

  • Quincy

    Am I right in saying that because Charlie Adams has already recieved a yellow for that ‘challenge’ so there can’t be any retrospective punishment?

    If the FA were any good they’d give him a 5 game ban.

  • SA Gunner

    Just too many factors here. Yes, we had a very poor refereeing performance on the day and that requires a special inquest, but why oh why do we make it so easy for them as well with such a shocking display on the day.

    Im keen to see the referee report on this match and see where the refereeing bias against kicks in, I for one am quite confident its when we already losing the match.

    So much wrong at the moment, yes the manager must be given time, but I personally dont think he has that ability anymore. Its really sad to be convinced of this.

  • Menace

    Charlie Adams is a dirty cnut. He should have got a red for his throat grab on Alexis. The assistant should have insisted on a red card. He is equally culpable for the assault that should be reported to the police. Anthony Taylor should get removed from any position to referee. The FA are an abortion if they do not act on the violence in this game. It is unacceptable for kids to see.

    Wenger was right in his approach to the game and should have won it if our players were committed. Arsenal play football. Taylor cheats. Stoke are nothing other than an abortion of nastiness. They used their official well. Crouch held on to our defenders every moment he could & Taylor chose not to see any offence.

  • How to be a Happy Gunner?

    I developed a formula to be a Happy Gunner. Its Arsene’s Guide to a Happy Gunner

    1. Always live in the past

    2. Be deluded and think the squad is best. Be happy when other teams lose.

    3. Blame the referee and rest of the world for the defeat

    4. Always talk about FFP, Big spending Clubs, greedy players and young future stars.

    5. Celebrate Fourth Place Trophy

    Anybody in their right might will not question the Loyalty and contribution of Arsene Wenger to this football club. He brought most supporters into this club. Its sad that many of those supporters are turning against him.

  • para

    It is embarrassing that the PL, touted to be the “best in the world” can allow the PL to have such a match as today. I thought i had seen ref ineptability before, but this takes the cake.
    It is now plainly obvious to even the most “switched off” person. They are manipulating games for impact, just like they do to the fixtures.
    I don’t know how long Arsenal is going to put up with it, i really do not.
    It is now beyond any form of a joke.

    Did you hear the stoke fans? Emirates should be like that, hostile to ALL opposition(including ref) until the final whistle blows. It clearly disrupted our players at times.

  • apo Armani

    Walter you are again bang-on with your article!! No surprises there.

    There were also no surprises about some of our immediate competitors dropping points (see Chelsea) even though they seem to have replaced ManUre to the extreme of the new Marinhooo TIME (6 minutes!!!!! WTF…there was no need for all that time, anyone who watched the game will agree)!! As for Citehhh; THEY SHOULD have lost that game (meaning more dropped points!!

    But, as I wrote in an earlier post we will not be allowed by PGMOL to have any advantages on any given week, in fact we will be hamstrung by decisions and kicking till we are eventually out of top4 contention!!!

    I will say we should have taken better care in the first half though, and not allow such soft goals…NO ONE expected us to come back, not in the least that horrible man in black, so at 3-2…he HAD to act, and act he did with a terrible red card – reducing us to 10!!!

    The battle continues…

  • Will

    how was Adams not sent off?

  • Nick Lee

    Lets all blame the referee.Nothing to do with atrocious defending and no fight in the team.We have a paper thin defense,whose fault is that? .Who sends out the team that way??Who decides that we have 6 defenders in the squad at the start of the season ??whose fault is that? .Who decides that our defensive midfielder is flamini?But lets not worry as diaby will be back next week and will sign a new bumper deal and will be like our new signing in january.But lets all blame the refs and chelsea and city.You couldn’t make it up!!!!

  • Menace

    Nick Lee – Wenger built the team. He sends it how he wants. So shut the F up!!

    The ref was a cheat and if you don’t recognise that then get yourself checked up for mental incapacity. Arsenal are not your team, may be your club, but the team is Wengers and we on Untold support whatever he does because he knows better than any of us.

  • bob mac

    Please , please do not show your total lack of football knowledge by implying that Arsene Wenger is tactically inept.

    Nothing could be further from the truth, apart from any possibility of him being sacked or resigning. Thank god.

  • bob mac

    It would be nice if our banner holders could display one which said………..

    WE AS SICK OF THE PATHETIC STANDARD OF OFFICIATING IN EVERY PL GAME.

    Maybe a bit long for the media to report on.

  • Menace

    You want a banner?

    ‘PGMO – not fit for purpose.

    FA not fit for purpose.

    Time for change.’

  • WalterBroeckx

    Nick Lee,
    I wonder do you ever read an article?

  • Gooner forever

    Just before Chambers’s second yellow card did anyone notice Bojan waving the imaginary card at the ref (who duly obliged). I thought it may have been highlighted on MoD. Some hope.

  • Rich

    Lord knows why, but I’ve handled this defeat about a hundred times better than some previous ones.

    I’d love it to be because I’ve reached the point where I can watch and assess a game and the overall situation without thinking of media and fan reactions (though, alas for the most part, those things count as part of the overall situation), but it’s surely not that. If some of those fans were shouting abuse at the team after the game, and that sort of thing will run on and on uunless the team put together a brilliant long run, which won’t happen until at least another month or so, it can’t be that. It’s probably because I didn’t suffer through a rubbish feed, and waited until it was over to discover the score.

    What gets me is the attitude of total shock and surprise when something goes badly wrong at the moment, as though they’ve been promised something good is very likely to happen, or if bad, not very bad, and are then- ‘whoa, aaargh’- assaulted by something totally unexpected and unreasonable. This for me loud and crystal clear reveals them as someone who has not been watching us closely and or does not understand football itself. Someone who understands where the team is at and wider football issues should get that we have some large vulnerabilities still, or at least we certainly do with even a couple of first team players missing, let alone triple that and then some.

    It doesn’t mean it doesn’t pain me a lot when something goes badly wrong, nor does it mean I’m relatively happy with either not being as strong, at the moment, as other teams, nor with the extent of those vulnerabilities, but it doesn’t either make me an idiot or unambitious or any of that. It means that my opinion is the team are only a step or two from becoming formidable again, that the manager remains the best option for us and that, even if you were to think it should be over soon for Wenger, finishing now, mid-season, would be an absurdity, as well as an incredibly lousy way to treat a remarkable force for good in our club’s history.

    But, I can live with those who disagree. Who say ‘it is over, someone else would definitely improve our club’, so long as they are willing to actually put together arguments as to why that’s the case, and stay clear of abuse, I’ll listen to them, agreeing or nearly agreeing in places, and still keeping my opinion that they’re wrong.

    I respect those people more than those who are, one moment- normally after a win- among their cheering, emphasizing their respect for Wenger, perhaps even letting the impression stand that they fully support him, or at least making clear that- of course, of course- the end of the season is the absolute minimum and all else is unthinkable; but then, after a bad performance, switch into full-on shock, woe-filled awe and amazement; shifting the emphasis tremendously, perhaps without finding the courage to join the others in abuse or shouting ‘Go, now’, but all the same making it perfectly clear that they think that should happen.

    These people are, among other things, like inconstancy (and plain old being wrong), clearly incapable of reading where we currently stand as a team. Yep, we can show alarming weaknesses still, and without half the team the chances increase dramatically- but you must have known that last week, in victory or defeat.

    You should not, once past,say,16 (14, ideally) be jumping around from week to week dependent on what’s happening in the game. Or rather, it’s right to do that in terms of pure emotion as you experience a match; but the analysis of where the team actually stands and what’s right for it in the future should be a totally separate thing, determined largely by the cooler emotions and thoughts that come in the breaks between matches.

  • Will

    This is what I was saying last week. Don’t let this site become the EXACT opposite or Le Grove.

    Nick Lee
    December 7, 2014 at 9:36 am
    Lets all blame the referee.Nothing to do with atrocious defending and no fight in the team.We have a paper thin defense,whose fault is that? .Who sends out the team that way??Who decides that we have 6 defenders in the squad at the start of the season ??whose fault is that? .Who decides that our defensive midfielder is flamini?But lets not worry as diaby will be back next week and will sign a new bumper deal and will be like our new signing in january.But lets all blame the refs and chelsea and city.You couldn’t make it up!!!!

    avatarMenace
    December 7, 2014 at 10:10 am
    Nick Lee – Wenger built the team. He sends it how he wants. So shut the F up!!

    The ref was a cheat and if you don’t recognise that then get yourself checked up for mental incapacity. Arsenal are not your team, may be your club, but the team is Wengers and we on Untold support whatever he does because he knows better than any of us.

    People are allowed to say that Wenger messed up.

  • jayramfootball

    Chalk and Cheese between the first and second halves. I was also watching on a stream and it dropped a few times but managed to catch a lot of the replays. I really can’t believe the sending off. It reminds me of the days when Vieira and Petit were totally dominating the league from the midfield and the referees were given a clear agenda to stop them playing together. Petit or Vieira would get sent off regularly for two fouls – 1 foul = 1 yellow card. That was the rule it seemed (and often not even a foul resulted in a yellow). Vieira and Petit played in the same team far less that one might imagine because of this refereeing agenda. So it was yesterday – Chambers is sent off for two minor fouls – yet Stoke players were let off without even a booking for the same offences. The could by Charlie Adam was a complete joke. Perhaps he was trying to respond to the fans singing Swing Low Sweet Chariot? The fact it only resulted in a yellow card tells me the ref was worried that 10 vs 10 would result in an equaliser for Arsenal – or maybe even the bigger disaster of an Arsenal win.

    All that said – the first half defining by Arsenal was truly shocking. It had NOTHING to do with tactics, selections or anything else the manager could do. The truth is that the players failed to organise themselves on the pitch. The second (or was it the third?) goal was the most telling – FIVE Arsenal players jumped at the corner. They all went for the same ball and left the Stoke goalscorer unmarked just 3 yards out from goal. I really have no idea what they were trying to do, but I am quite sure it is not something they are told to do by the manager or any of the coaches.

    The players need to take responsibility for defending as a team and that starts with one basic thing – communication. We lack it on the pitch at the moment.

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    jayramfootball
    December 7, 2014 at 12:54 pm
    good points, I agree.

  • Quincy

    I think we even forgot to mention the one incident where Chambers was standing still with his arms held out, while Crouch wrestled him to the ground. It was blatantly obvious because it took the f*cker about ten seconds to wrestle Chambers to the ground. But of course Taylor gave nothing. NOTHING! For wrestling! Compare that to Chambers and Crouch both holding each other, but Chambers getting the yellow card!

    Honestly, I simply cannot believe that any neutral observer can possibly deny that Taylor was bent, at the very least hugely incompetent, in that match!

    TAYLOR OUT!!!
    DEAN OUT!!!
    PGMO OUT!!!

    Unacceptable!!! We must do something now!

  • Quincy

    Rich, I agree with you completely. That’s why I only read Untold and the Arsenal website these days. Everywhere else on the web seems to be filled with 12 year olds, or people with the intellects of 12 year olds, who can only remember as far back as the last game. What a relief to get the sensible, intelligent opinions on Untold.

    As an aside, I wonder where we’d be if we got the active assistant from the PGMO that Man City and Chelsea get. Man City get a soft penalty and should have had two players sent off. They go on to win. Chelsea get six minutes of Mourinho time. And let’s not forget the convenient blind eye the ref gave to all the dirty Mourinho tactics and fouls when they came to Ashburton Grove.

  • jayramfootball

    Yesterdays game was a PGMOL classic.

    I can quite imagine the sense of achievement and glee today – with drinks all round and Taylor being the toast of the PGMOL meeting room.
    The reason is that the game was perfect for them. The result is what was planned, an Arsenal defeat, with the bonus of an Arsenal player sent off. That is not what made it perfect though.

    The perfection came from the fact that Arsenal got a penalty (at 3-0 down), a Stoke goal was called offside (RIGHTLY) AND some Stoke players were booked. So how could there possibly be any bias British public?

    It was a brilliantly managed performance by the ref. Free kicks awarded to one team to help them defend and not awarded to the other to break up attacks and make it more difficult to defend. Those ‘small’ decisions in great numbers that can completely direct the flow of the game – punctuated with some big decisions evened out between the two teams. You see it is only ever the big decisions that get analysed.

    I think after that game, Taylor will be getting a promotion and will be doing far more Arsenal games. He might just have usurped Mike Dean as the go to man when Arsenal need to drop points.

  • Rich

    Quincy,

    Thanks. I guess I largely come here and,especially, write stuff here for catharsis, but it’s bloody nice and no denying to get a little bit of feedback and interaction with it.

    Jayramfootball,

    Bravo. Absolutely spot on. I spend a lot of time thinking about this game management aspect of it, and it is ,in my opinion, the true killer. It’s the difference between a swine of an aspiring politician who holds views which would make him unelectable, and has no ability to hide it, i.e not a big threat; and one who holds those views but is not a complete and utter imbecile and so disguises them, and is accordingly a threat or big threat.

    It was a near certainty that the next pen would come when we either had a game won- and 3-0 is about the point you think that- or lost- again, 3-0 – and it fitted perfectly that when-oh,oh- the game wasn’t in fact lost, bam, the first concievable chance to drastically reduce our hopes of winning was snatched upon.

    The truly incredible thing for me is that an actual flat out conspiracy is not necessary for any of this, and in fact I remain incredibly dubious that there could be one; instead, it seems much more likely to be the result of a strong or very strong dislike- one which the people involved could easily not even be properly aware of themselves, or not- among a few powerful actors, and their excessive influence among a hermetically sealed group, containing many more who may harbour this- fully conscious or not- bias/dislike.

    Or a least that’s what I tell myself when I’m not in the grip of ‘holy ****, this thing’s actually ******* rigged!’

    Bias, groupthink, a woefully imperfect system- these and things like them are much more likely to be the root of it all, as opposed to secret phone-calls and dark, despicable maneuverings. But the results are exactly the same as they would be if it was all plotted and choreographed with full intentions- and the system of selecting, marking, promoting, sidelining and demoting ensures that if the evil, so to speak, is in there, there is no chance whatsoever of any cure from within. The only hope is if it were a proper conspiracy, and football had it’s answer to the Hacking Scandal * and Nick Davies, and it were all blown sky high.

    * They went after footballers, the PFA chairman in a very big way, son it would make sense for them, or someone else, to go fishing with prominent refs also.

    Game management- in the long run it is even harder to overcome, unless you were staffed 1-11 with superb and often world class experienced players, who were clinical, smart, strong, savvy, who had about everything in fact. The best example of it-GM- probably comes from the most outrageous performance of all : game 50. Amongst all the terrible decisions, he no doubt applied himself fully to the task of giving us some decisions where he felt it was safe to do so.

    Riley pushed it to outrageous extremes, but there are outrageous extremes and then there are even more outrageous extremes, and there’s no reason to go to them unless you have to

  • jayramfootball

    @Rich, game 50 was an out and out effort to stop Arsenal, with no consideration on whether it was obvious or not. The FA and PL had become so desperate that they had to act regardless of the consequences and the obvious nature of the bias. It had no subtlety at all, whereas yesterday was quite brilliantly executed by Taylor – with enough meaningless decisions in Arsenal’s favour to be brought out at the slightest discussion of bias to counteract those claims. I like your political analogy – Taylor could well be running for prime minister when he leaves football if continues with those performances. Certainly the political career makers will have their eyes on him!

  • Quincy

    Something to brighten your day
    http://gfycat.com/SlimyIncompleteDassie#
    Or, possibly not.

  • Quincy

    That one’s for the ladies.

  • Menace

    Will – if one wants to say Wenger messed up then at least acknowledge the fact that PGMOL are cheating us of fair play. Don’t tell me that Charlie Adams should be allowed to play for the next 3 games because it is disgraceful what he did to Alexis. Nick Lee looks with 20/20 hindsight and spouts his disbelief like he could manage a piss up in a brewery. I’m not a diplomat nor do I tolerate idiots, particularly when Arsenal have been robbed by some 2 bit crap from Stoke.

  • Rich

    Jayramfootball,

    Yep, if I didn’t know better I’d think the more follicly-challenged (and weedy, apart from Webb) refs had something extra against Wenger and that luxurious mane of his.

    It’s looking like the baton Dean took from Riley is going to be placed flush in Taylor’s hands in due course

  • Nick Lee

    Menace..Your quote Wenger built the team. He sends it how he wants. So shut the F up!!

    The ref was a cheat and if you don’t recognise that then get yourself checked up for mental incapacity. Arsenal are not your team, may be your club, but the team is Wengers and we on Untold support whatever he does because he knows better than any of us.

    Ive played football for 20 years and had some good refs and bad ones also,but ive never come across a group of referees who together have a conspiracy to make sure one team looses games to stop them winning anything.We can all blame refs ,bad luck ,injuries but there’s one underlying factor in all this and that our club isn’t doing the best it can to be WINNERS.Our owners arent interested in winning trophys all they want is to keep making money that is why wenger is still in a job.We are one of the richest clubs in europe with 2 multi billionaire owners.We charge some of the highest prices in europe to watch the games.Surely for that we can employ one of the most astute managers in the world (8m)to get a team that can do what we were all promised when we left highbury and that was to compete with the best teams in the world.We have regressed and are struggling to be one of the top 4 in england.
    We all love the club but believe you me not many now believe in wenger to take us forward to the next level.and as the old saying goes “every dog has its day” and our manager has had his!!

  • G

    Does anyone have any idea why none of the former players ever come out and suggest the same as Untold continually suggest about the refereeing decisions?

    Are they silenced by the FA somehow?

    Why would Petit or Pires or Ljungberg not mention this when they watch the games? They have nothing to lose so why not say it?

  • Gianni Dioro

    Has anyone mentioned the incident in the 2nd minute when Bardsley slid studs first into Alexis, taking him out, but then Anthony Taylor decided that it was Alexis who committed the foul?

    That’s when I knew the match was fixed.

  • Gianni Dioro

    And remember Charlie Adam picked up a retrospective 3-match ban the last time Stoke played Arsenal for stamping on Giroud last March?

    The match officials didn’t see that one either. What a coincidence!

  • bob

    “It has all gone very quiet, too quiet.”
    Mandy,
    Try this:
    What I hypothesize (repeat hypothesize) is that there may well be a (season-performance-linked) clause in one/any of our biggest recent deals, which dramatically reduces the season’s payout IF the side fails to finish Top 4 (– thus, losing the sponsor any Champions League global visibility via Arsenal).

    As our being loud and publicly accusatory (however accurate) would result in a definite (PGMOL-engineered) loss of a top 4 perch (i.e, 4th place), the AFC brass takes the firm business decision not to protest (and therefore, to best protect the business).

    What AFC brass faces, however, is that the evident waves of refshite will result in so great a wave of losses as to drive away (rightly or wrongly) substantial numbers of the numerous softer fanbase – which, of course, will obviously be ruinous to the business as well.

    In my view, this is a possible Catch 22 that club management may well find itself in right now (or even over the last few seasons).

  • bob

    “That’s when I knew the match was fixed.”
    Gianni Dioro, Walter, Mandy,
    Stringing together the malfeasance by Adams and Crouch into a video that could go viral can put pressure on the PGMOL-medja cabal that – as Mandy rightly imo hypothesizes above – is likely protecting the return of post-Fungusson Manure to its rightful upper stenches of the League dungpile. Them boys don’t risk the loss of a huge legacy cash cow with (still) worldwide earning power to the likes of AFC (which are worth more to them as a national joke/whipping boy, than as a true competitor).

  • WalterBroeckx

    Bob
    I have tried to write such an article.
    It is in the drafts. But the software has some problems with uploading the video clips so I had to find a bypass.
    I think I found one so just hope it works and Tony can publish it tomorrow.

  • Gord

    Back in the land of technology.

    I think this follows on TommieGun’s article on perspective. Ars Technica has an article about how unpopular FACTS are perceived as opinion, so that they can be more easily ignored. I belive the article references the science article this popular article is based upon.

    http://arstechnica.com/science/2014/12/why-do-we-cling-to-beliefs-when-theyre-threatened-by-facts/

  • Menace

    Nick Lee – Just one point that you need to acknowledge – was Taylor selectively blind or do you think he was fair and made mistakes?

    Arsenal do not have ‘owners’ but shareholders – neither have loaned huge amounts if any amount to the club. They are no different to the holders of single shares as things stand. As for the club being in a winning position? I think this team is better than most but is being targetted by officials.

    Conspiracy is not the word but ‘corrupt practice’ is the way to describe the way the FA and PGMO operate. Why is the PGMO totally white in this day & age when there are players of all nationalities playing in the EPL? Why is the FA appointing a monopoly organisation to supply ‘racially chosen’ officials? There are no non ‘northern’ English officials in PGMO unless you consider links to one foreign nation as making it multinational.

    It is easy to point to paranoia but reality is there are too many Arsenal supporters on Untold with a like mind seeing ‘corrupt practice’. The city police together with Tax authorities should be investigating fraud in the EPL with checks on all money movements/transactions & will very quickly find the can of worms that is behind the cheating.

  • Nick Lee

    Walter Nick Lee,
    I wonder do you ever read an article?

    I dont tend to read many of yours walter.They are just biased rubbish.Bit like our manager at times.

  • Nick Lee

    Menace.
    Do you honestly believe in a conspiracy theory by referees or the league to stop us winning???
    Insane madness.If the refs were neutral do you think we would be in chelseas position in the league??And how are these referees hampering us in european games??Have they been got at also.Maybe thats why we squandered leads against anderlect and got battered by dortmund away.I think some of you have been brainwashed into thinking these things Blame anyone but our manager.

  • Gord

    There is no reason for you to be at this website Nick Lee.

  • Nick Lee

    Gord.When i finally understood what you had put i had to respond.Why should i not be able to post my views??Because they differ from yours.It doesn’t mean your right and im wrong.

  • DevilDriver

    wenger out

  • Gord

    Nick Lee, Devil Driver out