Arsenal News
Arsenal News & Transfers
As featured on NewsNow: Arsenal newsArsenal News 24/7

Arsenal News, Only Arsenal, Blogs, Transfer News

Archives

November 2017
M T W T F S S
« Oct    
 12345
6789101112
13141516171819
20212223242526
27282930  

Fa Cup : Mu – Arsenal 1-2, we are going to Wembley! Again

By Walter Broeckx

A lot of changes compared with the team that beat QPR last Wednesday.

Szczesny came in the place of Ospina and Koscielny and Monreal came in the place of Gabriel and Monreal. Oxlade-Chamberlain came in the palce of Rosicky and up front Welbeck came in the place of Giroud.

The starting line up was :

Szczesny, Bellerin, Mertesacker, Koscielny, Monreal, Coquelin, Cazorla, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Ozil, Alexis, Welbeck. On the bench we had : Martinez, Gibbs, Chambers, Ramsey, Giroud, Walcott, Akpom.

Alexis with a first shot that is smothered and ends up with De Gea.  Bellerin gets an early booking for a foul on Young that I missed. But nothing comes from the free kick as Welbeck heads it away. Some pressure from United but nothing really going dangerous in the direction of Szczesny.   Lots of midfield play in the opening 15 minutes.

Arsenal then coming a bit more forward but a good run from Bellerin sees a deflection going off Blind but the ref and assistant award no corner. Fellaini then with a lay off to Young but his shot goes well over. The same can be said of an attempt from Oxlade-Chamberlain who hesitated between a shot and a cross and then you usually get nothing.   Marcos Rojo stopping a great run from the Ox just outside the penalty area but the yellow card doesn’t come out this time.

Arsenal then with a good spell and moving the ball well from the left flank from Monreal to Özil who opens to the Ox who dribbles his was inside past 3 defenders and then gives it to Monreal who had followed up the attack and he finishes it as if he does it all day. 0-1 to The Arsenal after 26 minutes.

But the answer from United comes fast. Di Maria cuts inside and his cross goes just over Koscielny and finds Rooney completely free and he heads it past Szczesny. 1-1 after 28 minutes.

Welbeck goes in the penalty area and is pulled back just outside the penalty area but the ref lets it go. A minute later a header from Welbeck but De Gea can smother the ball.  At the other side Szczesny has to catch a cross in two times.  A foul from Herreira on Alexis earns him  a yellow card. Two United players hack him down in fact. A good stop from Monreal before Di Maria can get dangerous and the follow up shot is easy for Szczesny. A long ball to Di Maria who has a shot from a tight angle but Szczesny with a good block. A free kick from Cazorla but De Gea can save it. A low shot from Fellaini but straight at Szczesny after he had kicked the ball not far enough just before. 1-1 was the score at half time after a slow start but an energetic last half hour.

Oxlade-Chamberlain after 3 minutes in the second half seemed to have pulled his hamstring.  Ramsey comes in his place.  The first real chance was when Cazorla got away with the ball to Alexis but his shot was stopped by the leg of Valencia and De Gea could catch the ball.  Jones using his arm to take the ball away from Ramsey but the ref didn’t see it.

Fellaini making foul after foul after foul and finally getting a yellow card.  Young then hacking Welbeck down and the card comes out again. The first 15 minutes of the second half a bit of a copy of the first half: not much football chances and just on the hour a shot from Di Maria that went wide. Again Szczesny not putting enough power behind a kick. On the other side a back pass from Valencia to De Gea but Welbeck can get just in between and nicks the ball away in front of the keeper and coolly finishes it the empty net. 1-2 to Arsenal  after 62 minutes.

Cazorla was hacked down by Marcos Rojo the ref gave an advantage but it came to nothing. Bellerin making a foul on Yound and the crowd wants to see a second yellow. Rojo got his yellow card.  A corner to Arsenal and the ball is put over the cross bar by Smalling. Chambers comes in for Bellerin who you could feel would get sent off on the next occasion. Clever move by Wenger. Fellaini with a header but Szczesny gathers the ball. United pressing forward now as could be expected.

A free kick from Alexis but De Gea can stop it easy. Giroud came on in the place of Welbeck. And immediately a big chance for Arsenal but De Gea with an amazing stop after a shot from Cazorla. A great cross from Alexis. Di Maria witha  dive but the ref stood a few meters away and Di Maria is send off with a second yellow card?  Or was it a straight red? The replay showed that Di Maria pushed the ref in the back after his yellow card.  You cant touch the ref. Correct decision.

Januzai going past Monreal looking for the penalty but again the ref wants nothing of it and gives a yellow card. Another correct decision as could be seen in the replay!  Cazorla with a tame shot when he  was falling. Ramsey takes a card to stop Young going on a run.

Alexis on a counter but De Gea is first on the ball. Arsenal try to capitalise but  Özil was judged to have used his hand.  It was nail biting stuff of course and then a great counter Özil to Alexis but De Gea prevented the 1-3. A miserable last ball from United and Szczesny lets it run out.

And the match is over!!! Arsenal wins at Old Trafford after a match that was a great fighting performance. We might have killed them off after the 1-2 so now it stayed tense till the end. But Monreal and Welbeck the scorers finishing off a strong team performance!

WELL DONE BOYS!!!!!!!

WHOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Arsenal and Wenger create new football records with 6th round win

88 comments to Fa Cup : Mu – Arsenal 1-2, we are going to Wembley! Again

  • SouthernGunner

    YEEEEES! 😀

    Oh to be a Gooner!

  • Laughing Lizard

    So much for refs favouring anyone but us. Plenty of yellow cards for Manu and dives punished. A pretty good display from Oliver.

  • goonersince72

    YES!!!!!! Good tactics, good execution. COYG!

  • Oluwatoba

    Goes to show what Arsenal’s being robbed off from unfair refereeing.

  • Gord

    OT: Sexism

    I think Saturday was International Women’s Day. And what ends up in the news is The British Army in Cyprus are shouting sexist abuse at the Australian’s Women’s team in the Cyprus Cup. A little of that appears to have spilled over to Untold.

    But, England tied their game at Cyprus Cup today, to finish top of their group. Canada won their game to finish top of their group, so the final is probably Canada versus England.

    And in other news, the Women’s FA Cup final will be at Wembley.

    Now back to your regular celebrating.

  • I congratulate all gooners especially all AKBs. Much as we should unite in savouring this victory, I am imagining what we would be reading now if we lost.

    Man U is sh*t like I said yesterday, and they were lucky not to have been at the receiving end of a hiding tonight. Good work Arsene, thank you boys! You made my day. Go on and heap some more misery on all Wenger haters by winning the cup again. Scholes, Neville, Owen…anybody home?

  • Rich

    Normal refs, huh. They highlight impact of dodgy reffing better even than dodgy reffing does

  • WalterBroeckx

    Let me also congratulate captain Per who had a great match and who was together with Koscielny growing in stature the longer the match went on.

  • Jerry

    Great write up and great win! Felt the ref actually grew into the game as well, which was surprising to say the least!

  • WalterBroeckx

    For those who can’t get enough of it http://arsenalist.com/f/2014-15/manchester-united-vs-arsenal/post-match-scenes-from-old-trafford.html scenes at the final whistle.

    Look at that smile on the face of Wenger just before it ends! Made me feel soft and almost started to cry 🙂

  • jayramfootball

    Its been a long time since I saw such blatant diving and cheating as a consistent strategy right through the team as tonight with Utd. I would hope Di Maria, Januzai and especially Young are further punished for their cheating tonight. An absolute disgrace. So nice that their cheating did not pay dividends this time. Poor ref is going to suffer at the hand of Riley though.

  • jambug

    Thanks for that Walter.

  • Rantetta

    For me the ref was his usual self for much of the match. Was it 10 or eleven fouls from Fellani before he got a booking? Did he elbow Coq, causing his nose to bleed again? That was early on. Did Young conjour the foul that led to Bellerin being taken off (for his protection)? There was a Utd defender, Rojo?, who’d committed some terrible fouls.

    I believe I saw the Utd players crowding and harassing the ref so many times (as is their wont), that they completely pissed Oliver off. On this occasion they took it too, too far.

    I’ll eventually have a second look at this game, where I can watch without the massive stress of the live match.

    Danny Welbeck.
    By the time I worked out that Giroud hadn’t started, I was sure Danny’s contribution would be significant. I still think it was an act of courage coming to Arsenal, he having grown up North and being a Utd fan and player. Utd dissed him. When you see what Danny done at Sunderland whilst on loan, and the shifts he put in for Utd & England, at left midfield, and then he got left out of the team, and publicly slated by the new manager… Of course he celebrated. He’d come from a team that got so many dodgy decisions, and he must’ve known he wouldn’t get that at Arsenal. Yet he came.

    Thank you Danny. Thank you Arsenal.

  • Well done Walter – and well done The Arsenal. Brilliant stuff.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Superb performance. Many of our players were immense, coq, Monreal, per, Kos, Ox while he was on, Santi….what a performance. But motm must go to de gea, or Michael Oliver, the ref was not perfect, but he firmly put a stop to the Utd OT cheating and diving. Yes, he was slow to card Fellaini but he seemed fit enough to keep up with play and see their diving for what it was. I await the ref review, but Utd players and fans looked in culture shock at the refs performance this evening. And well done Danny Welbeck. And well done arsene wenger, for the performance, tactics, and getting bellerin off the field before the cheats got him a red.
    Great evening, another monkey off the back in Manchester. Great to see Phil Neville looking absolutely gutted in the interview after the game

  • Rantetta

    Walter
    Thanks for the article and also the post-match video.
    That is soooo good to watch.

  • Dieter

    Cheers, finally a result from OT. And what a classy performance from Michael Oliver as well. Hardly a single call went against us.

  • Pat

    Ditto for the post match video.
    What a treat!

  • Al

    Well done Arsenal! I didn’t watch as I anticipated another robbery tonight, sounds like utd tried it on but it didn’t work. Getting the feeling the ref was ok, but could have punished utd more as I saw a stat on the BBC site saying only Akinfenwa had committed more fouls in a single match (against Liverpool) than fellaini.

    Not really surprising reading some comments from the aaa scum like shoot and lizard; not a word of congratulations to the team, but having a pop at those who complain about refs. You can’t even enjoy an Arsenal win? Shame on you. Well done done again Arsenal!

  • Menace

    Rantetta
    March 9, 2015 at 10:58 pm

    Shoot – read this and weep.

    The Ox had so many tackles from behind that a knee in the thigh early doors could have caused the muscle spasm. I tore a muscle in the thigh a few days ago and though there was no pain, I felt the tear. It took 2 days before the hemorrhage appeared. I expect it will take a long time to recover fully.

  • Sleekwhale

    I can excuse the ref today – he stood his ground and saw the match through. Did it the Arsenal way again! COYG

  • Brickfis Gunners

    Did Danny boy kiss the badge ? Just asking , you know !

  • Horsham Gooner

    My fears about another home referee at OT started when Bellerin was yellow carded for his first foul on Young early in the game. Yet again, I thought, an Arsenal defender playing under pressure. But what a performance of courage from Michael Oliver.
    He resisted the constant questioning of Rooney at every decision he made against United. He didn’t allow anybody to go unpunished for simulation. And he certainly didn’t allow Di Maria to touch him.
    Oliver has set a good precedent. I hope other referees will copy his example at all matches whatever teams are involved.
    Got a feeling though that Riley will get some revenge on him.

  • Good Morning fellow Gooners, its times like this, that we take the good and the not so good. How anyone can say Arsene doesn’t do TACTICS, or has no plan B, is beyond me. Like anything in life worthwhile, it takes time to develope with foresight and patients is a must ingredient. I can see this Team developing into an excellent consistent side.

    jayramfootball.
    Poor ref is going to suffer at the hands of Riley though. (LOL)
    I think the reply to that comment is Oliver will sleep well and be protected by Usmonov’s personel Body Guards for Life.

    COYG’s !!!!!!!!

  • @Swales1968

    After a nights happy sleep I’ve been thinking about this.

    Why are we celebrating a referee for doing his job properly. No in fact why are we celebrating a referee who still made errors? My timeline on Facebook and Twitter after the 1st half was full of condemnation for Oliver, moaning about Fellaini not being booked after continuous fouling and for Young going down far to easily to get freekicks. The booking for Bellerin was correct but Oliver missed at least one if not two challenges from other United players that were just a cynical and mistimed. If a pull is a foul anywhere else on then pitch then why isn’t it a foul in the penalty box?

    The second half was not really any better Rojo’s foul on Cazorla should of been a straight red and Youngs theatrical falling over Bellerins leg was laughable, yes it was a foul but his over exaggerating of the foul was laughable, it was a deliberate attempt to get the young full back sent off.

    The three decisions that everyone is congratulating Oliver on are decisions that referees should be making, the dives were clear and the pulling of the shirt deliberate all three yellow card offences.

    Have we as fans been so poorly treated to proper refereeing performances that when one official gets some (not all I add) decisions correct we celebrate it as a great performance from him.

    Oliver’s performance last night should be the minimum standard of refereeing in England, that performance should be what we see week in week out from what are called the best in this country. If Arsenal had of drawn or lost that game in the last minutes then the attitude to the officials would be totally different today. There would be questions about the Welbeck non penalty, the freedom Fellaini had to foul at will and the Rojo foul on Cazorla.

  • Al

    Swales
    Exactly my thoughts too. I didn’t watch but seems like the ref,while he got two or three key decisions correct also missed a similar number of key decisions. I noticed that too when dean gave us a penalty for the first time in years, followed by Taylor recently. Some wanted to heap praise on them, but like you say, if they still had an incident or two wrong then that’s still not good enough. I think like you say, we’re so used to blatant robbery every day that in a game where the ref will make one or two decisions correctly we tend to look at that as a brilliant performance. We should not, that should be the standard on a daily basis.

  • blackfoox

    @swales
    honestly i doubt rojo will receive a straight red for the tackle, a definite yellow to me~ what people is happy about is the fact that oliver, despite constant harassment by united players, stood up against them and made the right calls… 😀

  • @swales,

    As one of those hailing Oliver’s performance, I have to say that I agree with you. However that was the best deal we’ve got from a referee against Man United in over a decade and I was totally surprised to be honest. Considering that he could have sent Bellerin off and he booked every simulation from United which they used to beat us in the past, I must say that I am very pleased with his performance even if it isn’t perfect like most things in life.

  • Menace

    The Bellerin booking was because of Young simulation. There are several instances of his diving to gain advantage followed by Shrek in ear of the 99% PGMoron. I will not accept any incorrect decision from a professional referee in radio contact with 2 assistants & an additional one near the dug outs. Rojo should have been booked for his foul on Ox. He should have had a straight red for his lunge on Santi. Lets not talk about the MF who fouled for fun (Marouane Fellaini). Every time an Arsenal player got a pass with his back to an opponent, he was fouled by immediate impact some of which caused Ox injury. The PGMO little boy Oliver ignored all such impact fouls.

    I am not going to praise a paid professional for getting some obvious decisions right when he got just as many wrong.

    One needs to keep up with changes in the Laws of the Game and understand that ‘entertainment’ should not sway decision making. Contact with an opponent when playing the ball is not a foul unless the contact was excessive & could cause injury. Bellerin was booked for contact when playing the ball due to simulation making the contact look worse than it was. A good official would have given the foul and warned Young.

    Captains do not have the right to solicit decisions from officials nor the right to question decisions apart from asking what the stoppage was for. In the QPR match everyone elses Friend lectured Santi on exactly that when Gibbs was pushed & Santi appealed.

    Olivers performance was better than most PGMorons 99% geniuses. There is still no excuse for ignoring the impact in the back of players receiving a pass.

  • Laughing Lizard

    @Al, the team did well and the ref did well too. You didn’t even watch the game so I’m not sure how you’ve got the right to make snide comments. And mate perhaps you ought to rein in the insults, calling people scum, fellow Arsenal supporters at that, is not very classy.

  • M18CTID

    Morning Gooners – congratulations on making my Monday evening and beating that lot last night. About time you bagged a win up there and how surreal and refreshing to see Oliver growing some balls at last with 2 United players booked for diving on their own pitch. I bet if Ferguson had still been in charge it may well have been a different story on that score. Oh, and Welbeck celebrating his goal – that was the icing on the cake 😉

  • Laughing Lizard

    @Menace, Young didn’t really have any option to fall over seeing as Bellerin took his legs away. I’d like to see you stay on your feet when someone slides in and takes your legs away.

    The ref wasn’t perfect, are they ever? But if you want to follow the letter of the law Bellerin was lucky to stay on, due to the ref’s leniency. Fellaini should have been booked earlier but then Coquelin got away with a few dodgy tackles too.

  • Tasos

    How many times have Arsenal been on the wrong end of refereeing decisions at Old Trafford? Too many to care to remember.

    Justice was done tonight but it still feels minuscule in comparison to what the ref’s have done to Arsenal down the years.

    No win in Manchester for years and then two come along at once, just like London buses.

  • Rich

    @swales – is there a danger of people, me included, going overboard? Certainly, but it’s also very valid to compare the ref’s performance to typical displays at Old Trafford, and therefore to feel uncommonly grateful for how he performed and want to praise him accordingly.

    Relief, realism, sheer joy, the normal desperate desire for Arsenal to win, the fact they did win- these things are also in the mix, and act as obstacles perhaps to our judging perfectly every decision in the match.

    However, the fact is, first, he was so,so much better than what we’re accustomed to- he had the opportunity to strike us a grievous blow, and didn’t take it; and, second, he took a big stand against United’s antics (and resisted another opportunity to do us in, with a pen for that Janujaz bull), which was the even more unusual thing.

    Finally, had he given the performance you want in the match, it would have been counter-productive for us in the long run, about as unhealthy as a twenty-a-day smoker running a marathon without any training, or a severe alcoholic stopping on the spot.

    Had he been very strict on United from the off, strict in the way we’re used to seeing refs be with us, it would have led not to the generally positive media response to his performance, but a storm of criticism for him. United would have an excuse, their sympathisers would pile on the pressure. Oliver would have to shape up. United would get better decisions in the coming weeks, us worse. It seemed to work out, as far as you can tell with these things, nearly ideally.

    There even seems a chance united may have to rein in their nonsense a little and, even better, that people could start calling them for their endemic poor sportsmanship and attempts to cheat. Result!

  • jambug

    Rich

    Very well made points as usual, especially:

    “……..is there a danger of people, me included, going overboard? Certainly, but it’s also very valid to compare the ref’s performance to typical displays at Old Trafford, and therefore to feel uncommonly grateful for how he performed and want to praise him accordingly.”

  • jambug

    M18CTID

    “I bet if Ferguson had still been in charge it may well have been a different story on that score.”

    Without doubt. I made that very point elsewhere.

  • TailGunner

    Yellow cards: United 7-1 Arsenal.
    Heart in mouth moment was when I thought Bellerin was about to get a second, and Oliver took his card out & then booked Herrera for a much earlier foul on Santi.
    Like the rest of you I was surprised at the laxity shown to Fellaini. Did he deliberately elbow Coq early on?

  • Al

    Context is everything, and reading the comments from the reasonable contributors here I can see why many are happy with oliver’s performance last night. And I agree. OT is not the sort of place any team expects such decisions as the ones Oliver penalised utd for last night. So well done ref, pity about the one or two decisions he didn’t get right but hey we can live with that 🙂

  • Al

    Lizard
    I didn’t comment on the performance of the team as I didn’t watch. But I commented on the ref as I had read on many different platforms the decisions he’d made for and against us. And if you read my comment (know you did as that’s where you’d have found out that I didn’t watch) I said the ref was ok. So I didn’t criticise him. I criticised you and your fellow because I didn’t see nor detect any tone of congratulatory messages from both of you. Rather you were having a go at the people who have questioned refs, and questioned them with justification too(the ref didn’t deliver a flawless performances so one can understand those not happy with him still). It’s not rocket science to see that you have very little time for saying anything positive about the team, and you choose to find the tiniest bit of any anything negative to say about the team even where there is a myriad of positive stuff to talk about. You seem to thrive on the negativity stuff.

  • Laughing Lizard

    @TailGunner, difficult call on that Fellaini elbow on Coq. Was it deliberate? I don’t think so but I wouldn’t have disagreed with the ref if he’d have given him a yellow. But for that most of Fellaini’s fouls were tepid in the first half but if they’d happened within a minute of each other he’d probably have been booked but they were all several minutes apart. When Fellaini finally got booked it was because he committed two fouls within a minute.

    Possibly Bellerin didn’t get a second yellow because of Rojos’ initial foul and the ref should have blown for a free kick then and countered his error by not booking Bellerin a second time.

    Rojos should have had a red.

  • Laughing Lizard

    @Al no I don’t thrive on negativity, I embrace objectivity; something I’ve noticed you regard as an enemy.

  • Rantetta

    Menace,
    Thanks for both your comments. Indeed, I feel like weeping re the Ox.

    I’ve only read your comments at 10:30, but at the time Ox left the field and right up until now I was praying that Ox had a dead leg from that last tackle, and he’d be OK with a couple days rest, despite the way he held the back of his thigh before leaving the pitch.

    This is devastating news. I seem to remember commentators talking shite about Ox’s injuries. Of course, they saw what was going on throughout the match but spoke relatively little about it in terms of CHEATING. I’ll have to look again to see just how many times Utd players talked shit to the ref, and surrounded him.

    A step/word/punch/kick too far!

  • ZOON

    AL

    Moaning about the AAA not being able to enjoy a good victory. You didn’t even watch the game for fear of us being robbed by the ref. It might be you that doesn’t enjoy the games or football in general i think.

    The hypocrisy of some of the posters on here is unbelievable.

  • Dieter

    Menace; the Bellerin booking was because he clearly fouled Young and actually hurt him a bit. Just take a good look at the incident again. A stonewall yellow.

    @Swales1968; may I kindly suggest that you go back to sleep? Because it seems you’re hallucinating.

    Al; You really are something special. “I didn’t watch the game, but exactly my thoughts too…” Please, man.

    Laughing Lizard & Rich; the two of You make much sense. So why do I get the feeling You are not the most popular individuals around here?

    Tony Attwood; I admire You for what You’ve created. And having been an Arsenal supporter for well over 40 myself I can certainly see where You’re coming from. However, for the sake of site-credibility it probably wouldn’t hurt anyone if more neutral views were allowed without instantly labelling the contributors as “aaa” or “children”.

    I’m sorry to say, but some (too many) of the comments here are appallingly biased and therefore hardly likely to be in the best interests of our beloved club.

  • Yassin

    Dont talk about the ref. dont give me your thoughts. you are here because you have the same mentality and thinking of the blog owner, then shut up, fo watch woman football. Just wake up or go to sleep. But by the way, Tony, you should really stop those regulars attacking other people with different views…. 😉

  • TailGunner

    Dieter

    Well said, it’s good to see someone commenting with no fear of the regular UA trolls who read their comments with a finger hovering over the a key, but you are now in deep, deep ( UA) shit.

  • @Swales1968

    @Dieter why am I hallucinating?

  • jambug

    Dieter

    “…..some (too many) of the comments here are appallingly biased”

    Which, in your unbiased opinion are the opinions you deem so appalling?

  • Rantetta

    Yes, it’s necessary to talk about refs whether they perform well or not and whether we’ve won or not, due to the history of what has happened over the last years.

    This subject isn’t limited to Arsenal. A few articles back Walter wrote about the FA Cup weekend, remember?
    All week long (and pre-match on BBC), the slagging off of all things Arsenal has been relentless. The glee espoused by the “knowledgable ones” relating to the 50th game and the ’99 fa cup tie is never balanced with the fact that THAT 50th game was a complete farce!

    Mr Wenger recently told of how that 50th game still hurts. I’m so glad, because it still hurts me, and I can’t be alone?

    On another day we could’ve lost this quarter final – simply due to the early refereeing. It took no time to book Bellerin, and yet – how often do you see Arsenal’s players taken out throughout a first half of play, without the offenders being booked? (Fellani was outrageous by any standards. There wasn’t even a replay of him targeting Coq’s nose). There are some on here who would’ve been very happy if that had happened. Oh yes.

    How many of Arsenal’s players were injured by Utd last night?

    I really appreciate Al’s comments, because without them (and those of many others), the detractors would simply spread the full-on negativity spawned by the media’s perennial destabilisation attempts.

    Well done Al.

    Well done Untold.

    Well done Arsenal.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Well not everyone enjoyed our win… 😉

  • jambug

    I lost count of how many times the BBC showed Keowns jump at RVN, but:

    How many times did they show RVN’s ‘Off the Ball’ stamp on Keown?

    How many times did they show RVN’s ‘Off the Ball’ punch on Freddie?

    How many times did they show RVN’s potential ‘Leg breaker’ on Ashley Cole?

    How many times did they show Rio’s ‘Professional’ foul on Freddie?

    How many times did the show a close up of Rooney’s dive?

    I certainly didn’t see any of those shown once. I stand to be corrected.

  • Jerry

    @Dieter, how is ridiculing fellow Arsenal supporters and ignoring the years of ref bias shown with evidence by this site in the best interests of the club?

    Did the ref have a great overall performance? Probably not. Did he have a good performance for a match at Old Trafford? Yes he did.

    Oliver’s performance was a tale of two halves. The first half, maybe due to nerves, he was missing little fouls here and there, which was rather frustrating to watch. He, however, grew into the match and had a great 2nd half spotting the dives by Di Maria and Januzaj. United got 7 yellow cards, but 6 were in the 2nd half. United got called for 20 fouls, but only received 4 yellow cards (the other 3 were for dives/pulling the ref). Fellaini committed almost as many fouls (8) as the whole Arsenal team (9), which received 2 cards. It’s a case of “it doesn’t matter how you start, it’s how you finish.” The ref finished very well and that’s why many people feel he did good in the circumstances.

  • Rich

    Dieter, you’ll make me paranoid man!

    In all seriousness, I’m more than happy to find a place with many Arsenal voices which resonate with my own thoughts, where there is an open admittance of our own biases (you really are more than halfway there when you get that) alongside the passionate and largely reasonable discussion of the biases of others, and where there is enough disagreement to ensure real debate takes place.

    That said, there are plenty of times I see positivity taken too far, or which is out of step with my own or something i don’t agree with at all, but I don’t see any big problem with that and it can even be a help in ensuring I don’t get too carried away myself. Easy to do given the emotion involved and, more importantly, the abundance of genuine grievances (for instance, any time I watch the Riley video or think about the broken legs I’m about ready to claim it goes all the way to the president)

    As for shooting down dissenters, and particularly launching into abuse of them, I’d rather there was a bit less of that. Occasionally very strong responses are richly deserved, quite often not.

    I’d say the context the site exists in – all that other terrible rubbish out there with all those horrible people talking utter c**p about the club, players and the manager- excuses a lot of it.

    Still, I have this naive unjustifiable belief that there is some possibility of changing minds through reasoning and debate, but only if you don’t two-foot someone in the argument. If someone does it first, you may as well fire back in kind with the best you’ve got, is my take. But often if you can just give it a few minutes you can find yourself thinking maybe you don’t have to and maybe it doesn’t deserve as much hostility from you.

    Also it’s never proved anything like as satisfying to me, tearing into someone with words, after pressing send as it can be in the writing.

  • jambug

    Rich

    “I’d say the context the site exists in – all that other terrible rubbish out there with all those horrible people talking utter c**p about the club, players and the manager- excuses a lot of it.”

    Exactly. This site was set up in part to counter the seemingly endless negativity spewed out by the media, day after day after day.

    The opening banner is very clear in it’s description of the sites aims in SUPPORTING THE CLUB, THE PLAYERS AND THE MANAGER, so it’s hardly surprising that a vast majority of it’s subscribers are by nature very ‘pro’ Arsenal.

    Yes, at times posters may seem to err towards plain old bias, especially to those with completely opposed views, but given the torrent of negativity we are up against that is hardly a surprising reaction.

    Look, if I was to ever venture to La Grove with my very pro Wenger/Arsenal rhetoric would I expect to be embraced with love and cordiality? No. I know the exact reception I would get.

    So why do those with there very obvious dislike of Arsenal, and Wenger in particular, come to this site and expect to be embraced like a long lost friend?

    I don’t get it. If you don’t like our ‘bias’ or the ‘abuse’ you get, go debate where you’ll get the love and respect you seem to feel you deserve.

  • Al read my comments again of course I congratulated the team , it was a fine performance as was the refs . Shame you missed it all can’t believe you chose not to watch ithe game !

  • Dieter

    @Swales; I don’t know why you are hallucinating. How could I, possibly? I merely wish you weren’t.

    Ok, enough with the “witty” stuff. It’s just a harmless figure of speech commonly used (at least in my home country) when someone’s drifted too far off the planet earth.

    I really can’t see the “we” who are “celebrating the referee” here. For me and a few others here it appeared to have been a job well done. And btw the vast majority of the footballing world seemed to be missing your streams of consciousness by heaping praise on Oliver. Shame on the lot.

    But why did You have to sleep overnight (happily) before realising that Oliver was no good? Were you so exhausted after the game that you just couldn’t make up any refereeing errors (against us) no matter how hard you tried? How tragic is that… Has anyone ever mentioned you might be slightly difficult to please?

    You see, the more you sleep the more you come up with valid viewpoints of incapaple officials and other dark forces trying to destroy us. So that’s why I encouraged you to go back to bed.

    (Sorry, this reply will definitely not be online and I can’t post anything at the time being but could be back later. If I haven’t been banned by then, you never know. In case of that I want to point out that I didn’t drop by for casual insults. If I sound too harsh it’s because in my world we fight bloody badly amongst our own but no grudges afterwards. That’s regarding Arsenal FC…)

  • jambug

    Dieter

    Personally I hope you are not banned, then perhaps you can answer the question I posed to you earlier which was:

    Which, in your unbiased opinion are the opinions you deem so appalling?

  • There’s more depressed miserable moaning characters on Untold than
    you’ll ever find on Le Grove . How depressing is that !

  • jambug

    Shoot

    Of course there are.

  • TommieGun

    First of all – thanks for the report.

    My thoughts –

    1. WOW ! I forgot it felt so good to fuck up the cunts in their own home. Came back from an excruciating negotiations session that went sour, just on time to watch the 2nd half. Boy, did that win make my day or what…

    2. I don’t know if it was good refereeing or not – but for sure, Oliver was not set on letting the cunts win. To his credit – it wasn’t an easy match to ref, the cunning dives and attempted cheats by the cunts were constant and he called them out right. Also I must commend the delayed yellow to Rojo – many refs would have let that go.

    I wish that I could say that about most matches involving Arsenal.

    3. Per is back. I am willing to bet on it. But he is. It wasn’t a great game by Kos, I thought he was out there dreaming for a few instances, but Per was back at his great self – not being fast or strong, just being smarter, reading the game, being in the correct space at the right time, making the right decisions. I was so happy for him, and for us.

    4. Ozil is just growing from match to match.

    5. So is Le Coq. If this persists, we would evolve from active disruption of opponents (tackling/intercepting), to reactive disruption (i.e. opponents would change their game plan or pass pattern just because they don’t want to be near him).

    6. Alexis is tired.

    7. What the fuck is going on with Theo? Is there something wrong? What am I missing?

    8. Di Maria was abducted by aliens and replaced by a shit doppelganger who has the footballing brain of a slug.

    9. Without De Gea the cunts would be around 12th place.

  • WalterBroeckx

    TommieGun,
    your 7. I think Theo was unlucky last night with the injury to the Ox. I think I saw him already half undressed but the Wenger rightly opted to bring on Ramsey. I think Theo would have come on if we hadn’t scored the second goal. But that goal meant that we had to make sure our players were focused on defending and Walcott is our least defensive player. So unlucky again.

  • Rich

    Jambug, no arguments here on your general stance.

    I suppose some of the people who seem pretty unhappy with the way of things here, and yet keep returning could be no weirder than me with my occasional Dail Mail habit. I go there, it infuriates or flat out disgusts me; I feel the need to comment; but it surely does no good (and in fact is exactly what the Mail wants, people clicking on their diabolical rubbish); and yet I keep returning. Mind you, that’s behaviour from me I know isn’t very rational and which it would be better if i cut out (Durham, though! Durham!)

    Hard to wrap the old head around- because i think I’m mostly right in both places- but that might be how it is for some of those who p*** you off so much here.

    Plus, I never expect anything other than what I see there, and there’s never any surprise to go with the dismay or anger. It is madness for anyone with a dislike of Wenger to be posting here and not be prepared for a lot of hostility, and then some, in return.

    Again though I reckon it’s healthy for people to be continually questioning whether the likes of the sites authors, you, me and anyone else go too far in our conviction of the rottenness of ref Denmark over the last decade.

    Bring it on. I’m ready to listen to them and challenge myself continually, and I know if ever I’m not up for the fight on any particular issue someone else will carry it to them.

    As for Dieter, it’s you and his business if you’re getting into a bit of a scrap there, but unless i’ve missed something it seems like you two are in broad agreement about last night – ref was good- and about the need to fight your corner,too.

  • @Swales1968

    https://twitter.com/swales1968/status/575302746502533120

    Where were the constant replays, where are the pictures on the back pages, why no mention on the radio. Where are the calls for the FA to look into this?

  • @Swales1968

    Does that link work?

  • jambug

    Rich

    “It is madness for anyone with a dislike of Wenger to be posting here and not be prepared for a lot of hostility, and then some, in return.”

    That’s the point. If you want to come here with completely contrary views to that of the consensus then you must surely expect a rough ride.

    I would if I went to La Grove, but I wouldn’t go there in the first place.

  • GoingGoingGooner

    The Guardian is still the Manchester Guardian. There coverage is all about how dire Manchester are with the only Arsenal coverage focused on Danny. Oh and a rant about how we shouldn’t talk about the refs so much.

  • GoingGoingGooner

    Their coverage

  • Gord

    Anybody reading the London Economic, looking for refereeing articles? I wasn’t either.

    http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/2015/03/10/imperfections-within-beautiful-game-referee-dilemma/

    A different idea on how to fix PGMO, but it does advocate for getting rid of the Select Group.

  • bjtgooner

    A nice write up Walter.

    It was a very enjoyable match and an extremely enjoyable result!

    Oliver had a reasonable game, certainly not a perfect performance, but, for a PGMO ref at the Old Toilet he did re-markedly well – remembering also we are comparing him to the travesties that have gone before.

    I was proud of our team last night, they kept cool and disciplined and resisted the temptation to “mix it” when the Manures tried blatant thuggery as a last resort to snatch an undeserved result.

    I was very impressed with le Coq – he curtailed the influence of the arch thug Fellaini, showed courage and no little skill in helping control the midfield.

    And how the Manures have fallen from the hopes and ideals of many years ago – from the Busby Babes – to the effective but unsporting collection of thugs, the granny shagger, the drug user and the sister in law shagger of the Red Nose years (propped up by the PGMO)- now they are further reduced to the granny shagger looking to Fellaini to knock down long balls. The deterioration is symptomatic of years of corruption.

    But, very well played Arsenal, a memorable win, now having enjoyed the win and celebration we need to settle down and prepare well for WH!!

  • Gord

    Fixture pileup.

    April 18 game versus Sunderland will be moved.

  • Gord

    Danny got a racist twit from a racist twit in Manchester, and some death threats via twitter.

    http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/danny-welbeck-racist-tweet-arsenal-8811393

  • Dieter

    @Jambug; Sorry for not replying sooner but I was kept busy with non-football-related matters for a few hours, which is always frustrating.:D

    As for Your question (and concerning only this topic); those opinions referring to Michael Oliver not being up to the task last night are the ones, @Swales nicking the 1st prize with flying colours. I mean; can any of us seriously expect that this young lad could – or should – even out all the injustice of the past 15 years in one single FA Cup match? I DON’T think so and that’s why I consider those comments appalling, yes indeed. And I don’t mind being called biased for that.

    @Jerry; As Rich aptly stated somewhere above: “Had he (Oliver) given the performance you (@Swales) want in the match, it would have been counter-productive for us in the long run…” And so on (it was posted at 9:35 am, so you can take it from there). Very well reasoned. As for ridiculing people, I’m willing to give and take and let go, but in this case I think @Swales did it all by himself when placing the sins of Mike Riley, Steve Bennett, Rob Styles and other retired idiots at Oliver’s doorstep.

    @Rich: Ta, mate.

  • jambug

    Dieter

    “those opinions referring to Michael Oliver not being up to the task last night are the ones,”

    Why is that being “appallingly biased”

    Given our treatment at OT over the years, I was, as where many others, extremely worried as to what to expect from the Referee. I think that was a perfectly reasonable worry, and has absolutely no basis in ‘bias’ what so ever.

    As it transpired, I believe the referee gave a very good performance, but to call the fear and expectation that he may not ‘appalling bias’ is well wide of the mark.

  • Rich

    Lo, the Telegraph have only gone and done an article giving Rooney and United a bit of stick. True, there’s plenty of ‘it’s not only Utd’, etc, and it doesn’t go far enough, but it’s pretty welcome stuff all the same.

    I’m just thankful Mourinho didn’t get his wish and take over from Fergie. He’d have done a better job, success wise, than Moyes or Van Gaal, the media would eat it up, and it would likely have all continued there, only a little worse (if that’s possible)

    Still think he’ll jump at chance to go there and that it’ll probably happen, but the longer it takes for that to occur, the more toxicity is likely to drain from there and the less easy it will be to pump it up again and get away with it.

    He could’ve stepped smoothly into Fergie’s shoes, and it’s pretty amusing to think the thing that may have prevented it was United believing their own lies that they were an honest, noble bunch.

    @Dieter, no probs. Good contribution to today’s debating.

  • jambug

    Dieter

    If you mean the guys that still think he was biased I concede I don’t necessarily agree but the fact is he still wasn’t perfect.

    -Booking Bellerin for his first foul. Yes, a bookable foul but just how often do we get a booking for our first transgression, when others seem to get away with it?

    -We should of had a penalty.

    -Fellani was getting away with murder.

    Yes, overall I thought Oliver did have a good game, but I understand why some people are so pissed off with the diabolical treatment we get so often from Referees that perhaps it takes more than just one ‘fair’ refereeing performance to get them as forgiving as perhaps I and a few others have been.

    All things considered I think even in this case, calling it ‘appalling bias’ is very harsh.

  • @Swales1968

    That performance last night should be the minimum performance from any official officiating a game. His decision making during the first half was poor, I do not think my link worked to my twitter account but on there is a video of the Felaini elbow to Coquelin’s face, how was that not called by an official who was having a great game? The only reason the media and fans are saying he had a great game was because of the bookings for diving and having his shirt pulled. The rest of the game he was decidedly average, missing foul after foul by MF, should Arsenal of had a penalty depends on the interpretation of the ref but it should of been called a foul.

    Yes I will be critical of officials even when the majority think he has had a good game because for me too many games are being affected by the officials and their poor decision making. Being an Arsenal fan who goes to every home game and watches every away game he can either on sky etc or on a stream. I base my views on what I see and not what the media decide to tell or show us. The elbow last night why was that not replayed by the BBC? They discussed the incident briefly but the Bellerin booking happened about a minute later and they decided to not to go back to it. No mention of the elbow at half time or full time, no reports (from what I have seen) in the papers and Drivetime on talksport only mentioned it briefly.

    Are we meant to look at that performance and say “everything is right in football?” no of course not, I say again if Arsenal had drawn or lost that game then the reaction towards the ref even if he did book the players for diving and shirt pulling would of been different. I am not placing the sins of previous officials at the door of Oliver I am looking at his performance last night and his performance was okay if you do compare it to other refs of years gone by, but, has he set the standard we want from the officials in games then no he is still a long way off the mark.

  • Dieter

    @Jambug, Yes to your latter post. There’s nothing wrong with having reservations on appropriate basis. But when someone is all prepared to have a go at the ref and then finds out there’s no actual ground yet still decides “what the hell, I’ll do it anyway” – that’s harsh for me.

    While many here are – reluctantly or even not – conceding that Oliver did pretty well, the bold statements of “hey, he was not perfect” still stand out. As if you’d see a “perfect” ref performance anywhere in the world these days…

    Bellerin’s slide on Young merited a yellow even if it was 2 seconds after kick-off. The game is best played by the rules as we know only too well.

    And the penalty claim; what would you honestly say if it was Dive Maria vs Kos at the other end? Never mind that, we could have had a double-soft pen as my eyesight told me Rojo released his arm before Danny got in the box. I believe Ian Wright said “that’s not a penalty” in the BBC studio. That’s not for granted though, it might have been Shearer as well or both of them. Doesn’t really make a different cos I wouldn’t be the first to dispute their position.

    Fellaini should have been booked earlier than after six fouls and based on the director’s actions I got the impression he could’ve been responsible for Coquelin’s bleeding nose. I despise Fellaini. He’s not the dirtiest player in classic United fashion, but all arms and elbows all the time. His antics are something PGMOL absolutely should look into. So I guess case Fellaini is to be considered “one of the KEY decisions Oliver got wrong”.

    Yes, we may agree to disagree completely but I respect your views and appreciate your ability to present them in a professional manner. I’m afraid the same doesn’t apply to me. In addition to that; as English (pretty obviously, eh) is not my native language, I tend to mess things up (grammar, adjectives, prepositions etc.). But rest assured I’m not intentionally insulting anyone. There’s definitely nothing personal in my posts, “harsh” as they may appear. Please feel free to punch me back where it hurts.

    @Swales; Don’t get me wrong, but it can’t be good for your mental health to follow your favourite team the way you do. My dad used to be exactly like you. Thank God he lost all interest in football ages ago. He was not a Gooner, he was nothing but just adamant that every single referee had an agenda while most of them were plainly bribed. And it wasn’t traumatising, it was simply annoying.

    I see you downgraded your rating on Oliver’s display to “poor/average”. Good for you, that’s what I call progression. Just wondering what the score will be come tomorrow…

    You apparently saw the Fellaini elbow incident live, so why do you have to rely on twitter and other sources to get MORE evidence? Just tell us what happened instead of being devastated no-one bothered to render replays or condemn Fellaini. It must have been blatant, so please enlighten us.

    @Rich; Thanks, but nothing compared to Your contribution. Always a pleasure to discover a “soul-mate”.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    After a great win , with the faithful in a very upbeat mood , some of ‘them’ still choose to come on here and try (try , but ,it doesn’t work !), to piss on our parade . Sad , really .
    And with that , ladies and gentlemen , I give you ……

    LOVE YOUR HUSBAND –

    When he orders you to make him tea or coffee,
    he wants to feel fresh to listen to your nonstop talks.

    Love him if he looks at all the beautiful females ,
    he is just checking that you are still the best .

    Love him if he criticises your cooking ,
    he is still improving his taste.

    Love him if he snores at night and disturbs your sleep ,
    he is trying to prove that he is the most relaxed person after being married to you.

    Love him if he forgets to give you a gift on your birthday ,
    he is saving money for your future.

    Love him because you don’t have a choice ,
    and killing is a legal offence !

    ( We AKBs though have the choice of not giving a shit and ignoring ‘them ‘ and their crap !)

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Newly married husband puts a notice in front of his residence :

    FOR SALE –
    Computer and Encyclopedia , both in good condition .
    Reason for selling : no longer needed . Got married . Wife knows EVERYTHING !
    ..with backup server called ….MOTHER IN LAW !

    ( Does this sound familiar ? I thought so too !)

  • jambug

    Dieter

    @Swales1968 describes perfectly why he has his opinion and, whether you agree or not, why that opinion can in no way be described as ‘appalling’ bias.

    You, even I, may still be able to see past the obvious points of contention raised by @swales1968 but I certainly can see where he’s coming from.

    By and large we are in accord that Oliver ‘over all’ had a good game, but at the risk of repeating myself, to suggest anyone who still thinks the Refs performance fell short of the standards ‘they’ expect is showing ‘appalling bias’, is out of order.

    Just seeing it differently to you (or me) doesn’t automatically make him (them) appallingly biased.

    So apart from this different interpretation of Olivers performance where are all the other ‘appallingly biased’ posters?

  • dieter

    @Jambug; What @Swales describes perfectly is he that had made his mind up before the game and eventually stuck to his opinion that the referee is somewhere between poor and average no matter how he performs. Let’s forget all about “appalling” and call it “dubious” instead. Is that better?

    The other suspicious poster is in no doubt Al, who didn’t watch the game yet “knows” everything about it. There’s not much more to mention since I’m fully aware of the “spirit” of UA. I wouldn’t go as far as some of us – or you – do, so I’ll accept that I’m an AAA and a 57 yo child. Regardless I think this forum is fascinating to say the least.

    And btw what are your honest thoughts of the penalty scenario? I’d like to hear them after all.

    @Brickfields Gunners; After a great win, why do some of ‘us’ still choose to make a point that “we won despite of a poor/average referee”?

  • jambug

    dieter

    Fair enough.

    I just think your broad accusation that there are ‘some, too many, appallingly biased posters’ here on Untold was a gross misrepresentation of the general tone expressed by this site.

    Yes, we are generally positive and supportive and see the ‘glass half full’ but that is a lot different to being ‘appallingly biased’

  • jambug

    dieter

    Having this debate with you has got me thinking.

    It got me asking myself, why?

    Why is it that some of the guys are still not happy with Olivers performance, at least not as happy as me, or you, or many others, and this is what I’ve come up with, and it’s pretty simple really.

    If I was doing the Referee review what would I find?

    Well, I would find that the Referee did not make ONE decision in Arsenals favour that he shouldn’t of done.

    -There was nobody not booked that should of been.

    -There was no dodgy off sides that we got the benefit of.

    -No goals allowed that shouldn’t of been.

    -I don’t think we got away with one foul that should of been given.

    -No possible penalties for united that could/should of been given.

    -All Uniteds yellows and reds where justified.

    Where as United.

    -Should of given away a penalty.

    -Had Fellani booked way before he was for consistent fouling, even possibly sent off for an elbow.

    So not that many mistakes, but the ones that where, where arguably quite big, important, possibly game changing ones, and ALL went in Uniteds favour.

    Just a thought.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Some nice quotes-

    No matter how educated, talented, rich or cool you believe you are, how you treat people ultimately tells all. Integrity is everything.

    The first recipe for happiness is: avoid too lengthy meditation on the past.
    – Andre Maurois .

  • Dieter

    Jambug

    It’s just never happened to me. I mean watching a game of football and getting the impression that the ref did well. Then going to sleep and waking up in the morning and having second thoughts. Then having a cup of coffee, running through match reports and discussion boards and coming to the final conclusion that the ref was average at the highest, no, come to think of it he was poor. I find this kind of procedure somewhat confusing.

    Here we can see photos showing Coq having a taste of Fellaini (and vice versa):

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2987010/Arsenal-midfield-general-Francis-Coquelin-wars-clash-Marouane-Fellaini-FA-Cup-tie-Manchester-United.html

    And a rather inconclusive video clip (MF’s arm swinging at 0:29):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EOOB3MCUL4

    While it’s definitely not an elbow I would have loved to see The Afro being given his marching orders. Not many excuses taking his windmill features into account. Anyway it appeared that the two players battled on and bruised eacother in good terms as the game went on so I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of accidental contact. However Fellaini is unconditionally someone to keep a CLOSE eye on, not closed or blind as the officials have done so far.

    Three wise men (Wrighty, Shearer and Keane) agreed in the studio that the alleged penalty was not a penalty. While Keane’s opinion is less significant I think the other two have enough credentials. So all the more I’d like to know your sincere views had the penalty incident taken place at the other end. I don’t insist, but I’m a bit curious.

    Thanks for your participation in this debate. Still hope you don’t feel offended.