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Why Wenger must go: the bluffers’ guide

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It is easy to argue that Wenger should go by taking one issue and shouting it, without any backup argument.

But it is harder to construct the logic over a larger number of issues.

In fact I have never seen it done with any of the debate and logic that is brought into the pro-Wenger arguments.  But that doesn’t mean it is not worth trying.

So, if you want to come onto this site and place a few we designed anti-Wenger arguments before the readership fine, but please don’t take the short cut by running one argument without the back up.  You should be answering four or five of the points below in depth, not just because that’s what this site does on the pro-side (and you will look awfully silly if you just take one diddly widdly point) but also because the world is inter-connected.

Just go and look outside for a moment, and you’ll see.

1.  Denilson is rubbish.

Stats help with an argument like this.  Comparisons of intercepts, passes, tackles with other players in similar positions.

2.  The players are in revolt.

The argument is that Arshavin is always slagging off everyone.  To show how true this is just take any article in its original language – normally Russian – and get it translated by an independent bi-lingual person, and then compare the comments with what Arshavin says on his own web site.

3.  Cesc is going to leave and everyone else is following.

A tape of the original interview in which Cesc says this, with a translator at hand would be good, plus a logical debate as to why the article from the paper is believed over what the player himself says.   Also an analysis of why this statement turned out not to be true last time.  And the time before.

4.  There are five players in the team who are not good enough and who should be chucked out now.

Aside from the stats mentioned in point one, it is good to show that better replacements are available, that the club is willing to sell, and that the price is not put into the stratosphere to ward off buyers, and that they are not demanding as part of their transfer to be paid the highest wages in the club.

5.  The performance against Wigan/Tottenham/ anyone else was unacceptable.

Include here an analysis of our injury situation, why we get so many injuries and the quality of our reserve team.  If more players should be in the reserves then explain also how we keep them happy when they only play a few games if the top man is ok.  Then compare with any displays this season  that you think were rather good.  Everton 1 Arsenal 6 is a starting point.  (And if you say that you can’t judge the club by a handful of results, then that applies to your own argument as well as the counter argument).  Oh yes and also explain how a run that has lasted 10 years could be kept going forever.

6.  We need to spend.

It is helpful to start off this article by explaining…

a) How we avoid being like Real Madrid who have spent more than anyone and are not certain of winning the league

b) How we avoid being like Man City who have spent more than anyone in this country and who certainly won’t win the league

c) How we avoid being like Chelsea who have spent billions and failed to win the league for the last three years

d) How we avoid getting into the mess of Man U and Liverpool where the only way out is find someone, anyone who will buy.  And to explain how it is that a club as successful as Liverpool can end up with a reserve and youth system so awful that even their Academy coach says it is all useless.

7.  Wenger’s transfers are a disgrace – he sells brilliant players and buys ordinary players.

Here you need to quote the actual stats for Flamini, Hleb, Toure, Adebayor, Henry, Vieira and anyone else you want to focus on – looking at how many games they have played and how things have gone generally since leaving.  There was a comment here recently that said selling Hleb was a disgrace and how brilliant he had been since.   The story of Hleb at Barca should be included at this point I feel – just to get the facts right.  It is also important to engage in the debate in terms of players over time.  Flamini had two average seasons and a good season – why is the good season taken to be “the real Flamini”?  It is worth arguing through.  And also how come we got Nasri.

8.  The youth project is a failure – we can see that because we haven’t won the league for five years.

To make this argument work you have to look at when the project started, and how old those players are now.  If you really think that the bunch of players brought together at the age of 11 who are now 17/18 should all be in the first team, otherwise the youth project is a failure, well, fine, make the argument.  But not just the headline.  Playing a bunch of 17 and 18 year olds in the EPL would certainly be a radical approach.



9. We can’t even win the Cups any more.

Here it is good to consider the youth project at the same time, since we play the reserves and youth players in the cup games.  Liverpool, Chelsea and to a large degree, Man U, don’t play the youth team in the cups.  But that’s because they don’t have a youth team like ours.  So, are you suggesting that the youth team don’t get any league outings.  If so, please also consider point 8 above, and then explain how they get games and how we see how they are going.

10. We haven’t won, we won’t win.

Anyone putting a sensible argument together here will incorporate the financial advantages of Chelsea and Man C, and will also consider what is happening with the league rules next season with the 25 rule and the Uefa financial rule the following season.   You might consider how other teams will cope with them.  And yes there is the argument that Chelsea etc will find a way around the rule – but it does seem that the 25 rule is being implemented next season.   But if you feel that some clubs will be able to bribe Uefa to change the rule, then how do you propose Arsenal should deal with that?  Should we be bribing too?   If you think so, come out and say it.

———————————

Preview of the game against Bleach Rovers

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Eat more chips

138 comments to Why Wenger must go: the bluffers’ guide

  • walter

    Tony,
    If I look at some of the things some “supporters” say about our players and our manager I bet they can’t even count to 10.

    Great article.

  • LRV

    Tony, don’t bother yourself with these Customers that masqurade as supporters. I don’t even give them the time of day. They are incapable of constructive argument or forming their own opinion. They just regurgitate diatribes picked up from idle minds of iZombies.

  • Sergio

    I think ever since Football Manager came out, people have been saying ‘we should get xxx’ or ‘chuck wenger because he hasn’t won anything and I’ve swept all in the past five seasons’

    They are armchair managers who are useless. Go support another team if it bothers you so much, we Arsenal Faithful certainly won’t miss you. They moan more than a Spuds fan

  • lp

    Nice post Tony.
    dont worry about those so called “fan” who think winning a trophy is everything. they’re probably on the bandwagon with chavski or manu whoever win the league this w/end so they can celebrate and get drunk.

  • george

    Tony,how can you expect any anti Wenger (i hesitate to say fan)fan,to construct a reasoned arguement .Unfortunatly they seem to be unable to grasp the concept of logic.

  • Richard B

    Sadly I know a number of people who most certainly can count to ten and who still come out with this ‘it would all be better if it wasn’t for Wenger’ claptrap.
    The fact is that the effects of any change in how the Club is run (or by whom)is total conjecture. Chelsea have proved that over and over again both on the field and off it. And so, for that matter, have the Tiny Totts. If you keep having to make changes because you keep getting it wrong it says more about those making those changes than it says about anyone else. The only difference with Chelsea is that, up to now, they have been willing to take the financial hit of sacking people and to disregard the dents that it puts in their reputation as loyal employers. The loyalty and faith that Wenger has shown in the likes of Eboue, Song, Bendtner and several others is already reaping its rewards. And because they are young enough to still be playing for us in (in some cases at least) six or seven years time those rewards can continue.
    The 25 rule and the Uefa strictures will both benefit us greatly and to get that benefit from the baseline of where we are now should be very interesting!
    If Arsene didn’t know best why is it that so many things are happening to force everyone else to operate more like us?

  • Tohellwithfrenchie

    Typical Wenger Fanboy!
    Question Wenger and you are not a real supporter!…
    Bah…
    Wenger Sell more players then improving the squad
    And did not find proper replacement
    Over trust those over rated over payed young players
    Keep playing them even though they make the most basic
    The most stupid mistake that cost Arsenal
    Till their head gets bigger and bigger and wont realize their mistake

    If he keep doing the same method next season i’m not surprise
    Another trophy less season
    Then this Denilson Hugger will keep sprouting the same shit over and over again

    Anyway what is it whit you “True Wenger” i mean “True Gooner” for people having the idea of improvement in the squad?
    What is wrong with it?

    Blind Faith is dangerous!
    That is why terorist are everywhere nowadays

    I hope next season will be Wenger last

    I think it’s time for over 60 policy
    Don’t you think?

  • joe71

    1. Where are your stats on Denilson ? – he has been awful this season.

    2. I do not believe the players are in revolt, but dont forget in the Jan window,Arshavin said we need to buy good experienced players to win the title, Wenger said we can win without spending as Bendtner will be like a new signing, we did not win anything so who was right?

    3. I do not think this time around our major players will leave, but over the past 5 -6 seasons in a row they have been, but never that adequately replaced.

    4. Silvestre, Senderos, Denilson (loaned), Bendtner and Fabianski – there you go thats 5.

    5. YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE ABSOLUTELY RUBBISH, EVEN WENGER HIMSELF SAID, “WHEN YOU ARE 2-0 UP AGAINST WIGAN AND TO SHIP 3 IN THE LAST 10 MINS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH INJURIES”. AS FOR TINY TOTTS SEE NO.4 REGARDING BENDTNER IN THAT MATCH – HE WAS CRAP, nothing to do with injuries, and the tiny totts were lucky, there goalie had an amazing game and the first goal, pure fluke, the second, offside – nothing to do with injuries.

    6. Arshavin and TV represents good sensible buys, but we have not done enough of this. Let me take you back to Jan 2010 ” we have the money but we wont spend it, I believe in the squad we have at present” – Arsene Wenger. 6(c)As I said we should not spend like Chelsea and Manu, but between them they have won the title over the last 6 seasons – including this season! even though they bought it, but you have to buy to win things, otherwise stop saying we are going to win it when in reality, Arsenal remains a work in progress.

    7. Wenger’ transfers are at times bewildering : Stepanovs, Cygan, Amoury Bischoff, (and Wenger knew he was injured before he came), Silvestre (instead of Kompany)etc. Who replaced Toure and Adebayor? – no one.

    8. Project youth started in 1998: Anelka, Vieira, Richard Hughes, Stephen Hughes, Manninger, Upson, Boa Morte, Wreh, Grondin etc – all in one year. Only the first 2 were good enough, only one stayed (Vieira). Proving that very few youngsters actually make it, unless they are very very good, nothing to do with Wenger’s ability to manage them.

    9. That is not my argument – as I believe just as Wenger that the champions league and premiership shouls be our ambition, but the problem is we are decieved into believing Arsenal are better than what they really are. Even so, we cannot win the small cups any way becuase along the line we will have to face our masters (Chelsea and Manu). When was the last time we beat them in the little cups? Yes it was a long time ago.

    10. We will not win anything if Wenger continues to be stingy in the transfer market. Currently, he says we only need 2 maximum (if Gallas stays). But we need 3 minimum. A top defender (even if Gallas stays – he is no longer fit enough to last the full season), a goalkeeper (becuase the options we have at the moment are awful), and may be Chamakh is here already, otherwise a striker (VPersie has never proved to be fit enough for a full season, and as I said earlier, Bendtner is not good enough, neither is Eduardo, the injury broke the poor man).

    THERE YOU HAVE IT, 10 GOOD REASONS WHY WENGER IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH, “IN ARSENAL WE TRUST”

  • Paul C.

    Joe – you realy do come off like an absolute idiot with those arguments. Tony is probably too polite to say that but you sound like a 10 year old crying as you write. Maybe you are 10 years old. That would explain a lot.

    You have proved all of Tony’s points in one post. Your lack of knowledge about Arsenal is quite staggering. You say ridiculous things like “Project Youth started in 1998” which is one of the more humorous things one is likely to find written on the blogosphere. Even the hard-core doom and gloomers wouldnt try to convince people of that, and yet there you are saying things like that without even thinking about it.

    Another ridiculous thing you say is the old “over the past 5 -6 seasons in a row (our major players) have….never (been) adequately replaced”. Well considering in the last year of the Invincibles we finished 4th, barely making the CL on the final day of the season, and this season we finished 3rd, then that is obviously an incorrect statement. In fact it is a downright lie.

    Then you say things like “but you have to buy to win things” without even realising the irnoic nature of that statement. Do you realise the nature of that statement? Are you smart enough to realise what you have said there?

    And then that “we are decieved into believing Arsenal are better than what they really are” crap which would be funny if so many fans didnt spout the lie. Who decieves you into believing Arsenal are better than they are? AW certainly didnt. The board certainly didnt. They both are very honest about our chances. Yes, it is YOU that decieves yourself into believing Arsenal are better than what they really are, and the realisation of that makes you angry, so you come onto posts like this and spout your idiotic delusions and make yourself look absolutely ridiculous. The saddest thing is that you probably actually believe in the things you are writing, and cannot see the contradictions and fallacies in your text. That is tragic.

    We really do feel for you as a fellow Arsenal fan. We really do. None of us despise you or think you are a bad person. We just think you are an idiot when it comes to Arsenal. And you may be really smart otherwise, but when it comes to Arsenal you are dumb. What other expalanation could there be for a post that proves all of Tony’s points in one easy sweep, and yet ends with you thinking that you actually made any kind of logical and intelligent points?

  • Pat

    Haha wow! Well, I sure long to see the day Murray takes pride in being the youngest also-ran at an Open. Or maybe, the now crap Ferrari prides itself in having the safest balance sheet in F1, after losing a 3rd straight title. Hey, maybe we’ll see Capello get praise for not going over hotel budgets, possibly bringing back a surplus, even though we get raped in the second round?

    Wenger is the brains behind one of the most elaborate brainwashes in sport yet seen. Look around – people consider the F.A Cup useless now? Hahaha. What an evil genius that man is.

  • Aniruddh

    Get your Facts straight
    Stephen and Richard Hughes came into the arsenal squad long before wenger did and definitely not in 1998
    Upson had to go due to injuries and manninger was too good to be a number two
    Anelka as you said was top class but had his head turned so wasn’t a flop

  • tim

    Regarding transfers, I just came across this. I think it’s pretty amazing:

    http://www.transferleague.co.uk/index.php

    From 2004-2009, Arsenal’s net spending was the lowest out of ANY club. Yet we have continued to challenge for all honors.

    Of course, there will always be whiners complaining about “what if Wenger bought X, Y, or Z player,” but these are hard statistics that show AW’s genius.

    You’ll see that money almost always leads to success. Except there’s no accounting for Arsene Wenger (pun intended).

  • tim

    BTW — knowing this site, I’m sure someone has already posted the above link. Apologies if so.

    @Pat — You are moron.

    @Joe — You, too.

  • tim

    A statistic for those who think AW is not spending money on purpose (also from the above site):

    Arsenal Comparisons:
    Before Move to the Emirates
    Players In Players Out Net Spend Per Season

    £199,290,000 £132,274,000 £67,016,000 £4,786,857

    After Move to the Emirates
    £70,650,000 £105,300,000 -£34,650,000 -£8,662,500

  • Tohellwithfrenchie

    ^

    See what i mean by Blind Faith?
    Of those Wenger Fanboy

    Here joe makes an interesting points
    some of them are fact

    And Paul C a wenger hunter calls him an idiot

    ckckckck

    Bunch of low expectation Wenger Lover Fanboys

  • Paul C.

    Tohellwithfrenchie – my goodness, they are all coming out of the woodwork now. So because we are realists, understand the finances of football, realise what it takes to build a new stadium, and consider 3rd place acceptable (though by no means glorious) given the restrictions AW was under, we have blind faith.

    Meanwhile, those who expect Arsenal to be able to win trophies consistently through a period in which we had ZERO money, were spending 350million on a new stadium, and in which Chelsea and Utd were outspending everyone, are the realists? We have blind faith, but you are a visionary? Your expectations are valid?

    Dude, Joe’s points were idiotic. Go back and look at them. They are full of assumption, personal opinion and unrealistic expectations. There is not one fact in there. A few of the statements are just wrong (7-9 are just incorrect. I can provide plenty of documentation and evidence to support that). Point 10 that he makes is one that everyone on here would agree with. That is what we are all saying as well. Point 10 is not an argument against stuff we are saying, it supports everything we are saying.

    People like you and Joe are saying “everything AW has been doing is wrong, he needs to change, we have been terrible, it is a disgrace, we need to get rid of X,Y, and Z.”

    We say “we’ve had no money and kept our CL status, we have loads of terrific young players, the last thing we want to do is get rid of current squad members, we have a few key weaknesses still to address, we finally are coming into a summer when we actually have money to spend (How nice is that? For the first time in 6 years we go into a summer with money to spend!!!!!), we finished in 3rd, we are close”.

    But we have blind faith? We are delusional? Come on man, wake up. It is a nice world out here in reality.

  • Paul C.

    Pat – the only brainwashing going on is the brainwashing of people like you with the idea that Arsenal could have continued to win trophies consistently while building the new stadium. The board and AW both said “the next five years will be tough, we just want to remain competitive in those years, not go further in debt, and you can start to judge us again in 5 years”. That is what they said at the time. It was very clear and obvious and you can go onto the Arsenal.com website, look at the old accounts and see those statements very clearly. It is now 5 years later and we should start to judge the side again. Were we able to remain competitive for the past 5 years? Yes. Is The Emirates starting to produce large revenue and profits? Yes. Were the other property developments the club engaged in profitable? Yes. Do we have a squad that the club can move forward with, with necessary improvements along the way? Yes.

    So who is brainwashed? Where is the failure?

  • amit

    what big a proof we want when our manager is going to make flopianksi as a number 1 goalie next season..i think this argument suffices…

    as usual the fanboys will turn a blind eye and will hope that arsenal will win da league…arsenal is not even close to united and chelsea…we saw it this year…light years away from barca, we are just da barca wannabe’s…

    i m saying a big bye bye to nxt season as well, if flopianski n almunia stay…

    infact tony the post that i hav just written we shall analyze it next year in may and then we shall c who is correct and who is wrong!!!

  • sad

    @Amit… i think Tottenham is a good team to support. You get to hate Wenger and cheere for a good club at the same time. They got a manager that is not afraid of spending money and that wants to buy your pure fulblooded british players only. Sounds right up your alley!

    the best of it all is that you get to hate wenger and yell peadophile to him while throwing your fist in the air and drinking beer at the same time!! Can it be any better?
    Seriousley man, with all your anger towards Arsenal i would recomend my remedy. Im sure it will give you a better way to vent your anger. Im sure tottenham blogs would love to read some of your arsenal/wenger rants to.
    It will feel like coming home.. trust me…

  • Are you forgetting Wenger’s display at old traford when he was sent off. Just shows the sheer class of the man. The injuries we had to so many players this year took their toll in the last few games.

  • gs

    It’s amazing how some people refuse to see reason and judge things by their immediate effects – but then again, this IS the internet isn’t it? Perhaps the most damning aspect of our age is to see the beginnings of a merge between the virtal world and reality.

    Life isn’t a computer game. You can’t play it like there aren’t any consequences, or that you can save and load once something doesn’t go your way. Similarly, managing a football club has long-standing responsibilities as well. Why should a club have one season of glory, only to go into debt that it can’t pay off in the future? As far as games such as football maanger go, you can play for 1, 2, or even 10-15 seasons if you’re really bored. How many of us can say we’ve consistently won titles in those games from the first season while ensuring the club doesn’t go bust?

    For those that don’t believe that long-term stability is more beneficial than short-term, are you really supporters of the club or trophy hunters? While you might not decide to switch clubs either, why do you insist on such a pessimistic outlook? Are you reading articles written by bloggers with nothing but pure speculation and selective bias, with a hint of an ‘inside source’? Why do we accept that as truth but flame Tony, Walter and the many other authors who write here as biased?

    At times I feel sorry for Tony to have to put up with all these misinterpretations of his articles. Just looking at the prior comments shows a lack of comprehension or even relevance to the article (i.e. the 10 points listed). It’s perfectly fine to state one’s opinion – it is our right – but to disguise it as an argument without reason and insist we accept it as truth is not. What Tony is trying to say perhaps is: ‘State your argument and support it with valid reasons’. (Unless I’m misinterpreting you Tony, in which case I apologise for my ignorance)

    Valid reasons do not include the following:

    1) Denilson is rubbish because he’s rubbish (circular arguments)
    2) Players are in revolt because the headlines say so (but the actual quotes are contradictory – exaggerated journalism)
    3) see (2)
    4) 5 players are good enough and we need to buy X, Y, Z because everyone says they’re fantastic (2nd/3rd/4th/nth hand sources)
    5) Wigan and Tottenham were disgraceful so our season is disgraceful (over-generalization)
    6) We need to spend because everyone is doing it and winning titles (no, everyone is spending but only 1 team will win the EPL this season – failure to infer?)
    7) Wenger’s transfer policy is a failure because of players like Stepanovs, Cygan, Almunia, etc. (Where then did he get the entire invincibles team? Cesc? RVP? TV? Nasri? – bias?)
    8)Youth project is a failure because we haven’t won trophies (actually this is rather acceptable, as we haven’t won trophies – but is it enough to discard the long-term future of the club now? – short-sightedness)
    9) + 10) We won’t win under Wenger and his precious foreign kids (well, how about when those kids grow up? – stereotyping? short-sightedness?)

    As an Arsenal supporter, I suppose we have to see ourselves in a unique position. Wenger is more than just a manager for the club, owing to his knowledge of economics – it’s more like he runs the club as both CEO and coach. It’s rare to have a manager who has such a keen understanding of economics and actually have the intelligence and concern for the club to keep it afloat.

    Some accuse Wenger of having too much power, and being too stubborn, unwilling to give up on his youth project. That is true to an extent – he holds unprecedented power in terms of a manager. However, to see him as a stubborn dictator is pushing things a little too far. How can we complain that he brings in profits to the club to pay off debts (considering the annual interest rates) while remaining competitive? It’s not as though he’s siphoning the transfer money into his own coffers but rather paying off the debt (unless someone can prove otherwise). I personally believe we should hold off complaining about a lack of spending until the club is debt free and making profits once again. Only then should we start questioning his policies.

    Thus, the question really is: Who has the rose tinted glasses? Wenger? Or everyone else? After reading all the reports of clubs in debt amidst calls for greater spending by fans, one has to question who really lives in the real world. In what kind of world do people spend more than they have?

    Let us judge Wenger by his work with the club as a whole and not just the teams he has put forth, keeping in mind that the so-called ‘best managers’ in English football have all ran their clubs into debt in their pursuit of success (eg. Brian Clough, Alex Ferguson, Harry Redknapp, etc.). Name one manager who has left a longstanding legacy of excellence that lasts to this day, rather than one run of success that is lost after he has left?

    Maybe it’s never been blind faith that we see in those banners across Highbury and the Emirates, but reason and logic. For those who aren’t familiar with the phrase on those banners, let me say it again:

    In Arsene we trust.

  • prites

    avid dunne….1-1…..Idiot bouncing around corner no one clears

  • amit

    WAT SAY U!!
    now wat you guys say..da idiot flopianski did it again…n still after da match wenger will say “i zstill believe in zat keeper…he is zstill very youngg…”…wat a joker fabianski is, pity that he is still keeping our posts…

    @sad: as usual a sad reply….which is xpected when v criticize..

  • amit

    FLOPI-ANSKI – FLAPI-ANSKI – FALLING-ANSKI – HOP-IANSKI – FUmBL-IANSKI

  • gs

    @amit

    How can you blame Fabianski for that? How is it his fault that the goal was conceded? Admittedly it wasn’t good defending, but you can’t blame the goalkeeper for every goal conceded. In this case, whoever was marking Dunn must be responsible.

  • prites

    blame the idiotic defence

  • prites

    I’m getting bored of this arsenal, so predictable, glad this season is nearly over. Disappointed with Diaby Traore and Vela in particular. Why can’t we pass the ball to Theo. Whatever happened to our counter attack. I know it’s the end of the season, but these players aren’t even trying.

  • sad

    @prtites amit blames everything on fabianski and arsene. without them we would have won the pl.. and with a new manager we would have spent 100M and bought ronaldo and kaka and lloris and rooney. do you guys not see that? Aw is the reason we did not buy all those players mentioned over.

    If we all did like Amit and hated a bit more we would win the league! its a fact.. ask anyone….

  • barry

    @ prites: Why? Are you expecting next seasonto be different?

  • barry

    good going wenger lets try next season with the same team yeh – hmm trust in AW – more like losing the plot fool

  • barry

    Same old story- PISS OFF WENGER

  • barry

    David Dunn isnt trying to play the ball, all he is doing in pushing Sol back into Flappy. Every corner they have put two players on the keeper and they do the same thing everytim

  • prites

    wankers the lot of them

    i hate silvestre, laughs when he nearly scores an own goal and they all giving him high fucking fives, then let in a goal from the following corner, c**t.

  • barry

    Embarrasing, again.

  • barry

    Wenger wants our trust but it’s hard to trust anyone who has failed to fix major cracks in the last five years, a man that is either covering for the board or completely lost the plot, it’s just a shame that the season ticket renewals are requested well before the season starts otherwise I wouldn’t have renewed some years ago, we get the same stories year after year just before the renewal letters are sent out to encourage supporters to cough up well early, if this was outside football Hill-Wood and Wenger would be in prison now for obtaining money by deception.

  • prites

    87 mins gone and diaby,nasri and arsha are still just idling along….youd think we were 2-1 up. No urgency its infuriating…….no pride. Sick and tired of these gutless, one paced displays.
    Just now; sylvestre to traore,traore to campbell,campbell to diaby were out of our half,,,,yipppeeee….oh no, wait diabys sledgehammer touch concedes possession in the centre circle….game over.
    For the last twenty mins of that game neither their defence or keeper were tested in the slightest….. absolute disgrace.
    You can say this lad or that lad were missing but none of those out there today were bothered and its just not good enough anymore…Wenger said this team would fight til the end of the season…..another whopper there then. Sorry for the fans who travelled.

  • Tohellwithfrenchie

    Hey Wenger fanboys
    We just lost to Blackburn
    That’s three in a row

    Well that is fine
    All Ezz wellzz

  • walter

    I really think the rules are different in the EPL than in the rest of the world. The tactics Blackburn use every corner is just against the rules.
    The first goal: the Blackburn players is holding Fabianski with his harm so he can not run properly. ALWAYS A FOUL. Look it up in the rule and instruction book.

    Second goal: the same thing. The blackburn players just push their opponents so they can not play the ball. ALWAYS A FOUL.

    The strange thing is the ref in the first half hour was giving those fouls like the rule book tell he should do. And suddenly he stops and let them do whatever they want.

    For the rest, yes we played bad. We had 2 starting players from our best 11 left. No team can overcome this.

  • prites

    i hope the spuds end up 3rd above us infact if we didnt qualify for c,league it would be even better cuz that bunch of pre madonna pricks dont deserve it and maybe then the board might actually realise that there is something badly wrong with wenger and his fucked up brain picking that bunch of shite something has to be done wenger is finished end of

  • barry

    s there really any point? Have we not already said it all over the last few years? Wenger is not going to do anything with this team. He will not spend any decent money this summer, he won’t get a decent, star player and we will have another Spring like this again next year.

    I have stood by him and the club for too long, I have tried to find excuses but the last few years have been an embarrasment for Arsenal, Wenger and most of the players.

    Wenger will have another year and if it’s like this again, then we need new ideas. I don’t know how long we will be in the top few teams each year. Chavs and Manure will spend money and Man City will splash it about like water this summer. We will be an also-ran by Feb/ March unless the obvious areas are fixed and Wenger gets a rocket up his arse, telling him to win a decent trophy or find a new job, next May.

  • barry

    Tohellwithfrenchie
    May 3rd, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    Better not say that too loud here otherwise we’ll be called the doom n gloomers. We cant question wenger you see!

  • prites

    What i cant understand, is that when Asnl have the ball in the final third for 20min or 100 passes the front 2 or 3 just stand there not coming short or going long. What is Wenger telling them in the dressing room. No matter what appens just keep the ball and make sure you go from left to right and then from right to left and back again and back again and again and again and again then give it to theo in a tight position in order for his cross to strike the first player in the backside. Next win the ball and do it all over again. What the fuck is going on with that man. Why cant he change it just a little bit. Its not working for fuck sake.

  • Rhys Jaggar

    A few opinions to put into the ether:

    1. Anyone who has done R+D in Unis or industry know that you back early-stage projects which fail. The key issue is the ‘churn rate’ i.e. the number of early projects you need to back to get a sustainable pipeline of successes. Reality is: in pharma only 1 in 13 projects which start Phase I clinical trials come to market. So if Arsene does 2 in 5, he’s doing quite well……..
    2. Within that framework, the best companies are those which, better than others, recognise earliest which projects will succeed and which will fail. In football that is true also, as in general then you don’t pay years of high wages finding out someone isn’t good enough. Arsene doesn’t seem to keep too many duds past 21 years of age, does he?
    3. In e.g. Pharmaceuticals, the big boys like GSK etc increasingly were eschewing early stage research (aka youth projects in football terms) and in-licensing (aka ‘buying players’) at late-stage (i.e. ready for champions League). The early stage stuff was being done in biotechs, the best of whom make money from licensing (‘being a selling club’). The ones that succeed do well, the rest go bust. Sounds like football, doesn’t it?
    4. Usually pharma companies build ‘franchises’ in particular disease areas. Examples are/were Roche in cancer, AZ in anti-ulcers etc. You see similar things in football with e.g. Arsene hiring from France, Man Utd now doing a deal with Brazil about bringing in youngsters etc.
    5. The key issue for companies is how they manage ‘customer expectations’ (aka shareholder expectations in big plcs). If you sell the customers on the fact that you’ll win the EPL, but don’t, they will get miffed. If you sell that you’ll do OK in the champions league, but you won’t be good enough to win it, then you probably need to charge lower prices to sell out.

    So my take is this: if an argument against Wenger is to be made, it is that he focuses too much on shareholder performance, which has been superb, and charges the fans a bit too much for not winning trophies any more.

    The likely outcome of that, taken to its conclusion is this: ‘traditional fans’ get pissed off and start to disappear. More affluent folks on the waiting list and/or those on a weekend trip from europe will take up the slack so the stadium will still stay full. But the atmosphere may slowly die.

    Those are, I think, the arguments which are playing out, although their manifestations may or may not be quite couched in those terms.

    I do think though that if you pay the highest prices in the League that it’s a good idea not to possess some of the worst keepers in the League.

    I think it’s tricky to sell loads of season tickets to English fans and simply fail to bring through English talent for a decade.

    And I think it’s not a good idea to refuse to buy a striker in the window then see the team fall to bits in the run-in. Particularly when the money was there to be spent.

    I think it’s tricky to claim Spurs are financial disasters when their wages:income ratio has been healthy for a decade, although they may need to adjust their squad a bit if they don’t make 4th this year. Their increases in sponsorship in the past decade has been huge…..

  • barry

    Wenger Interview Prediction: Excuses…

    – Foulling the keeper
    – Injuries
    – Tiredness in the squad
    – Blackburn were overly physical
    – The spirit was good
    – Apart from the goals Flapianski was mentally strong
    …………..

    Just fucking leave you prick.

  • prites

    But yet the wengerites will tell you that we are in a better condition this year than we were last year Rolling Eyes One win in 8, more defeats than last season, more goals conceded than last season, worst run since 1980 and a team representing us that are gutless, brainless and totally devoid of passion and commitment to our club. We rightly slated greedybayor for his lack of effort and workrate to justify his wages in the last season with our club but these mercenary c**ts are no fcuking better Evil or Very Mad

    How many clubs have we heard of compensating their travelling fans after inept performances like that and yet our team does it consistantly with no appreciation from wenger, the players or the club in general. Mind you the fans have an awful lot to answer for as well – I am sick of them singing about arsene wenger at every game (inc todays) and constantly feeding the mans already inflated ego. Keep bending over and you will get screwed by all those c**ts at the club and your financial commitment wont matter a fcuking jot

  • Dimitrij

    Sorry,
    I like your “always” positive energy, when required, but I thing you are going too far. I understand the idea with “project youth”, but I don’t buy the idea of raising share value with expense of not winning today, but maybe tomorrow.. You know who Myles P. is, his website is just an opposite of yours, but in my opinion both of you doesn’t deserve any credit for your writing because both have no objective thoughts about team’s achievements.., Your version is = We are winners tomorrow, Myles version is that once we was winners. I think that true is somewhere in between..,
    /Dimitrij

  • goonergerry

    Allardyce really is the king of anti football. Only one team trying to play football-Blackburn Rovers are an alehouse team of runners, kickers and cloggers. Feel sorry for Fabianski-he probably thought he was playing a football match-he should now realise that the Northern English have adapted the rules of the game to include pushing and backing in on goalkeepers. Martin Atkinson is quite simply inadequate-the only thing consistent about his favouring of the home team.

  • joe71

    I MADE MY POINT A COUPLE OF HOURS AGO AND WAS CALLED AN IDIOT BY PAUL.C. WHAT I PRESENTED ARE SHEER FACTS, AND VINDICATED BY ANOTHER DEFEAT. WENGER HAS MONEY AND REFUSED TO SPEND IT. HE SAID SO HIMSELF. WHEN WILL FANS STOP LOVING WENEGER AND START LOVING ARSENAL. IS IT WHEN WE LOSE OUR 4TH SPOT TO TINY TOTTS AND MAN CITY ?

    IF WE HAVE NOT GOT MUCH MONEY, WE CAN BID FOR JOE COLE (SUPPORTED ARSENAL AS A KID) AND METZINGER FOR FREE, BECAUSE THEIR ARE ENOUGH OVER PAID PLAYERS AT ARSENAL THAT CAN MAKE WAY. WENEGER IS A MAN NOT A GOD, HE HAS DONE HIS BIT FOR US WHICH WE ARE GRATEFUL, NOW HE SHOULD DO AWAY WITH THIS YOUTH POLICY OR LEAVE. PROVE HE IS STILL A GOOD COACH BY MOTIVATING HIS PLAYERS, AND UNDERSTAND THAT FOOTBALL INCLUDES DEFENDING. ALAS, THEY SAY YOU CANT TEACH AN OLD DOG NEW TRICKS!

  • Joe

    Anti-football indeed. Football is about exploiting an oponents weakness and relying on your own strengths to gain 3 points. You just don’t see that do you?
    This is why Barcelona battered you at Camp Nou yet had no reply to Inter.
    You played your pretty game and got nowhere, Inter played football (defence-attack) and sent you aspirational leaders packing, with minimal stress and 10 men for a large period.
    Surely you see that no matter how much you insist others are anti-football, this doesn’t affect results. You lost because you had no reply to Blackburns game, the onus is not on them to match you.

    WAKE UP GOONS, GONNA BE HARDER NEXT YEAR WITH CITY IN THE MIX FOR REAL EVEN WORSE IF THE sPUDS GET THAT 4TH SPOT.

  • Jonny

    My we really have attracted some sad and unpleasant people today. The one thing I would have thought that is beyond all doubt is that Wenger cares hugely and works tirelessly for this club.
    he certainly doesn’t get everything right but his commitment, hunger and belief are all too evident.

    Why then should he have to suffer such deplorable insults and abuse from imbeciles like Barry, Prites et al?

    It’s as though he has given the club nothing and that is truly pathetic. Moreover it is a damning condemnation of your small-minded, self-centred egos.

  • Joe

    By the way, Joe Cole has loyalty and ambition by the bucket load. He will not join Arse.

    You heard it here.

  • prites

    That post match interview was a joke, instead of moaning and complaining about teams being physical against us come up with a fucking plan B and play them at their own game.

    I have had enough of this now. i was one of the arsene knows brigade but now he is ruining the club. How can he say flappy wasnt at fualt for the two goal, blackburn are hardly going to make it easy for him are they?! its just excuse after excuse after excuse. its never the players fault its always the aint football brigades fault. to physical blah blah blah blah blah, im sick of it. Im not sure i even want to give him the summer to sort out the mess, coz this wenger wont fix anything. The only reason he is saying we will buy now is for ppl to renew their season tickets, come aug 31st when the window closes we will have signed no one of any great quality, and will still be playing with the mugs of diaby, flappy, almunia, tweety, denilson ect. im sick of it.

    WENGER SORT IT OUT OR FUCK OFF! STOP RUINING OUR CLUB

  • barry

    Well absolutely – the post match interviews are becoming a farce aren’t they. He should do what Sir Rednose does and send someone else out to speak in the face of defeat if he can’t come out with some decent, honest analysis.

    I’ve watched a re-run of their second goal several times. Fabianski is not touched by one of their players, so what’s his point about the goals being “not regular”.

    I’m no Craig Burley fan but I think he summed up what many of us feel in one comment

    “I’m sorry but if Arsene Wenger thinks that he doesn’t need a GK to challenge Man United and Chelsea then he is in denial”

    Fat Sam goes on to confirm that they knew Fabianski was weak and targetted him…..and what does Wenger come up with….oh yeah, lets blame the ref and the fact it was a “poor football match”. Fucking right it was poor and do you know what Arsene – as much of it was down to us. What football there was in the 2nd half was Blackburn’s and we did not have one player on the field who showed the craft of David Dunn. So get off the moral high horse, actually watch the game again, act like a man and do what most managers do i.e. detailed preparation and start targetting the weakness of others

  • canton7a

    hi all first time poster. some very annoyed arsenal fans and rightly so…i mean im not sure what has happened to the great and mighty arsenal. wenger is surely on his last legs now – its obvious he cant match us or chelsea, and next season will certainly be the nail in the coffin for the once great man. I was just wondering, does Arsene Wenger have something that prevents him from ever being criticised. His team have not won a trophy or been in many finals for 4/5 years and tbh have not really contested the premiership either (if you look its the same every year, competing till january/feb then fall away to 3rd/4th, so you cant really count that as competing). Yet you never hear the media or anyone say he is doing a bad job. Yes Arsenal do play nice football, and Arsene may have done this on a shoe string budget(although whether out of choice or out of stubborness who knows), but its the same story each year, i,e blame it on bad luck, youthful inexperience and injuries. I only say this as I kinda miss the days when Arsenal were actually a team you had to worry about for the title and the domestic cups. Hopefully Wenger does get them back to the 1998/99 and invincibles days but I honestly dont think he will! Just wondering how long till the fans get frustrated…

  • Mike

    I was pretty depressed when I started reading but I’ve got to admit “pre madonna” (prites 7.14 pm) cheered me up. Tony – you’re asking them to form a coherent argument when they don’t even understand what the words they’re using mean. I think some of them are typing by punching the keyboard.
    So, still a bit depressed but with a smug sense of intellectual superiority.

  • El Bone of the Yard

    They both looked like fouls to me and if they had been on Van Der Saar for example would have been given I reckon.

    What worried me more was why Fabianski didn’t push them out of the way before the kick was taken and then shouted at the ref. Can you imagine Lehmann putting up with that treatment?

    Again, no leaders today, no-one to take control of midfield. Could Diaby be less bothered?

    And if Fiorentina offer us £7M for Eboue again bite their hand off.

  • El Bone of the Yard

    They both looked like fouls to me and if they had been on Van Der Saar for example would have been given I reckon.

    What worried me more was why Fabianski didn’t push them out of the way before the kick was taken and then shouted at the ref. Can you imagine Lehman putting up with that treatment?

    Again, no leaders today, no-one to take control of midfield. Could Diaby be less bothered?

    And if Fiorentina offer us £7M for Eboue again bite their hand off.

  • Joe

    David Dunn, now that’s realistic. Joe Cole indeed, you might get him from us in another 3-4 years when he’s Sylvestre/Campbells age.

  • pramos12

    What troubled me today, and has troubled me for a bit, is not so much the actual individual players.

    We have not had the big bucks to get a team of top level players, we all know some of them are below par, and that we had a lot of injuries.

    What really troubled me was two main things:

    1.) The way we can put out a goalkeeper and team who are clearly not trained properly in how to act at set pieces.

    That is the fault of the coaching staff.

    That is not down to big bucks.

    That is a matter of getting in Keown or Dixon as defensive coach on £250,000 a year for five days a week. Four days with the first team, and perhaps a day working with the reserves too.

    2.) The formation and substitutions were not designed to get the best out of the players available.

    That is Wenger’s fault.

    Why was Diaby so deep? He is not good enough, yet if he plays at least have him further forward where he can run with the ball towards the penalty area, which he is not bad at.

    Why have Vela wide? What does he contribute?

    Why not bring Walcott in to the middle with Van Persie? At least Walcott was running at them, he might be small compared to Samba but his pace could have caused Samba to foul him and give away free kicks in vital areas.

    Why sub Eboue? He was working his socks off? Was he injured and we were not told?

    Rant over.

  • pramos12

    @walter – Actually if you watched it you would see that Dunn was being marked by Ccampbell and backed into him pushing Campbell into Fabianski

  • barry

    Am just gutted.
    Of the whole squad that togged tonight do you think that, besides sol and RvP, any of those gutless shapers feel half as dissapointed as us tonight?
    Do i think that Nasri,Diaby or Walcot will miss any sleep tonight?
    Ferguson got rid of Cantona, Keane, Beckham, Van Nistlerooy and co when they couldnt reach the standards he had set…..yet we still have guys like Diaby and Nasri who havnt even been dropped or taken off when performing so lazily and without any gusto….
    I never thought id say this but if Wenger truly believes that Fabianski was blame free tonight, that Nasri can be a Pires and that Diaby is a footballer then he really should move on because his obsession is ruining the club.
    9 losses this season…..where was this improvement hes been talking about????
    ‘Judge me in May’…ok Arsene I will…youv lost the plot…big time and your stubborness and shocking post match interviews are ruining the integrity of the club

  • DEJEct

    I can’t believe what I am seeing!

    Just what is happening at our football club?

    A few games ago we were fighting for the Premiership title but now we are looking nervously over our shoulders in case we finish below the likes of Manchester City or, dare I say it, Spurs.

    Luckily for us there is a lack of games remaining and they both face each other so third place is in our hands.

    For this I’m thankful because I dread to think what would have happened had there been five games to go with us in this type of form.

    Lately we have been nothing short of a disgrace and in total honesty a lot of these players do not deserve to wear the Arsenal shirt.

    It pains me to say that.

    I can accept defeat but only if the players wearing the Red and White of Arsenal have given everything. In recent games we have given nothing.

    It has been embarrassing.

    Barely a handful of players can hold their heads up after this dismal run. The main man has been Sol Campbell. And to think people doubted him re-signing.

    At the moment I wish we had eleven Sol Campbell’s on the pitch. The geezer has been fantastic and I’m gutted that he influence isn’t rubbing off on this side as much as it should be.

    He gives everything and wears the Arsenal shirt with pride. He knows what it means to wear the Cannon on his chest.

    I don’t want to single out any Arsenal players for criticism. We all know who isn’t pulling their weight but I don’t think that they either care or are bothered that we, the fans, are pulling our hair out at what we are seeing at the moment.

    Too many of our players have got too much to say and they don’t back it up. To be honest I’m beginning to become sick of it.

    All season-long I’ve backed this Arsenal squad and I feel like a big of a mug. Like Arsene Wenger I’ve shown my faith in the players and that faith has smashed me back hard in the mouth.

    I don’t entirely blame Wenger for this disgusting run of games but he has to shoulder some of it. He can only motivate as much as he can but its up to the players when they cross that white-line to perform for Arsenal Football Club. For us, the supporters.

    To be frank the players have acted as though the season ended the night we lost in Barcelona. What a liberty.

    Where is the pride? Where is the passion? Why haven’t we seen the season out in a proper fashion?

    I think a shake-up is in order. We need to mix it up a bit. I’d keep the majority of this squad but adding to it is essential.

    Marouane Chamakh is said to be a done deal and as we all know Wenger loves a bargain. I’d get Joe Cole from Chelsea. Available on a free, a winner and a player who would fit in Arsenal’s style of play.

    A new keeper is a must. Its a shame to say but our keepers at present have become diabolical liabilities. Signing Cole and Chamakh on free transfers gives Arsene more spending power.

    Get Joe Hart. I’m pretty sure he would jump at the chance to join us.

    I’d keep Sol Campbell for another year but I’d sign a top quality centre-back too. I hate to say it but I reckon William Gallas is off and Silvestre is on his toes.

    A new injection of talent will give us the kick up the arse we need. I think we have become complacent and the recent run of form could back that up.

    Arsene Wenger has proved in the past he can be ruthless with his players. We need to see that ruthlessness again. I just hope Wenger hasn’t become complacent himself.

    Us, the Gooners, would sweat blood for the Arsenal shirt. We haven’t been privileged enough to have the talent that our players have been bestowed with. That may well be the case but I guarantee I’d put in more effort than most of this lot have in recent games.

    How sad is that?

  • Paul C.

    Yeah, the crazies are really out in force. We have people saying that Metzinger and Joe Cole are what we need, people who think Diaby “isnt a footballer” and people who think they, of course, are better managers than the professionals. Wow, what a tornado of intelligent, measured, and supported arguments.

    It makes you so glad that we have intelligent people running Arsenal Football Club, doesnt it?

  • barry

    Paul C.
    May 3rd, 2010 at 9:20 pm
    hmmm what intelligent people are you talking about? those that are happy to fill their pocekts and a clueless manager who is happy to settle for fourth – blinded by his own past glories, keeps playing players who dodnt give a shit about the club and you say they are intelligent?

    Could have fooled me.

  • pramos12

    The buck has to stop with Wenger and him alone. I don’t particularly like saying I told you so but is there anyone who didn’t see this coming a mile off?

    It has only been a big drop in the Prem League overall standard that has seen us get away with it this season.

    The thing that pains me is that I have been saying the same thing for a few seasons now. The club has clearly got weaker and yet everyone, especially Wenger buries their head in the sand.

    It is now time for action. I was laughed at and mocked when at the beginning of Jan said please let us sign Hangaland (DC), Gordon (GK), Parker (MC) and Huntelaar (FC on loan). All could have been snapped up for around £20M. Today I sit here and think yet those four might well bring us the title. And if you don’t fancy Gordon then I’m sure Hart will more than do.

    The GK situation has made Wenger a laughing stock. Everyone can see it except him. Yet he comes out and blames the ‘over physical’ approach and it seems his attitude has rubbed off on our players.

    Playing Silveste and Campbell as centre back together – are you have a fckin laugh Wenger? I mean even choosing Silvestre to play away in the Nou Camp. Fck off. It makes me fckin mad.

    Arsenal nowdays remind me of a political party rather than a football club. All spin and no action substance. The new Arsenal type fan is equally as bad – more interested in balancing the books, more interested in watching the game whilst sitting on their hands.

    FFS. We even play in white with dark shorts when away from home yet the new fans runs out to buy the shirt. Are they really happy for us to look like Spurs? It makes me wonder.

  • pramos12

    Great result at Wigan….and Spurs….and great result at Blackburn as well.

    We’ll still end up finishing 3rd, which is exactly where we would have been if we’d won all three games – but at least Wenger can’t now ignore the obvious frailties in the squad…..

    Just a pity that thousands of gooners have had two horrible journeys to the north west – and across North London – to see them!!

  • barry

    It just shows that Wenger has instilled in the team that winning that C/L spot is success,so forget about titles or cups as long as you get that C/L spot that’s peachy.It will get you a lucrative contract,keep the board happy and keep me in a job and so pursue a fantasy.

    WENGER YOU ARE A FUCKING WANKER,THE BOARD ARE FULL OF SHIT.We are seeing the worst dramatic fall of a great club since the british empire all because of greed and a one man’s vision of fantasy which in reality will never prevail.Our great team is guided by a man who has tunnel vision,can’t motivate a team,won’t listen to reason or take advice,surrounds himself with yes men and has the ability to spot players of a blind man.

    I can’t understand that this season we have had to chances to snatch the P/L and every time we played like that we mid-table team on the last game of the season.So Wenger fuck off and take your pathetic philosophy with you and you can take your 2 bob players as well,you deluded prick.

    Stick your ”financial” stability up your arse,if we were worried about finance we should have stayed at THE HIGHBURY which funny enough wenger won all our trophies Confused No it’s all bollocks and we been played for c**ts and the only people winning are greedy c**ts like fizman,and average players not good enough to wear the famous red and white.

    I’m having a break coz i’m so fucked off and i don’t give 2 fucks if anyone disagrees with me but my answer to you people is FUCK OFF YOU DELUDED c**ts!!!!.i see you all later.MORE BEER PLZ.

  • Q Sola

    I see, you guys can now talk, those of you that kept saying in Wenger we trust, i said it last time that we can not win anything with wenger, i swear, even if he stays next season, we are not going to win nothing, because he is not going to do something special.

    For a manager to be supporting Fiabanski or what is it called, diaby, denilson, silvester, almunia, vela. Men Wenger should go or if he refuse to go he should do something different, he should sell all the dead woods, all the sluggards players among the team and he should start buying players right away, if not we going to loose all our top players this time, because if i were FABRIGAS, i will leave, because wenger is a shit manager, and he is bad manger, mind you, even if he buy six players, trust me he would not win nothing, because he is out of idea, he would start playing them out of positions, he should go, he has spoilt our club for us, shame on you wenegr, and also to those fools that kept saying in wenger we trust. I think enough is enough, Wenger, no more gamble, you are a gambler and a looser, off you go, or change for better, and when you are leaving, make sure you pack all your stupid players you so much trust with you. We are a big club before, but not anymore, you this stubborn man.

    God save you i am not in that stadium today, you could’ve been dead asshole.

  • dy

    if Wenger wants to gamble the future of Arsenal with this current team, I bet there’ll be lots of fans turning away. After watching the Blackburn game, just feel so irritated by the fact that Wenger just said awhile ago Arsenal doesn’t need to strengthen midfield, what is he thinking ?
    Diaby Nasri and Eboue in mid means disaster. Never mind the defence back because it doesn’t exist and where is the offence/attack ? This isn’t about being near the end of the season, it’s about how the team approaches the game each and every time.

  • Q Sola

    Barry, good talk, anyone that has somehting to say let them, because they are asshole like Wneger, i am still sick, now compare our team with spurs team, do we near them at all, i don’t think so, now they would loose their next match and drop from third to fifth, shameless Man, excuses over excuses, fools.

    He should go, he is prick. And any of you that would come out and disagree with this point should go to hole, WENGER WENGER WENGER WENGER IS A LOOOOOOOOOOOOOSER, HE HAS FAILED US,

  • goonergerry

    Joe-Joe Cole is a joke- a Chelsea reserve-loyalty and ambition ho ho-he is looking elsewhere because you wont pay him what he thinks he’s worth-no other reason. No he wont join Arsenal-more like Man City-.I should look out yourself-that ageing team of mercenaries you have will not last much longer.

  • Tohellwithfrenchie

    I think Wenger needs to re-sign with dignity
    His taken us far but i dont think he can further more
    Most fan are afraid of changes
    Wenger has build enough
    It is sad if he will be the one who destroys it

    I’m guessing after the lost to Blackburn

    Tony Attwood will write another blog contains “FINANCIAL PRUDENCE” (LOL)

  • hartwick89

    What’s funny to me is all of you so-called Arsenal fans who have the gall to come on this website and spouting your hatred?

    Read the directions for posting…

    The reason why most Arsenal fans don’t go to the other sites anymore is because we left due to comments like Barry, Pramos12, prites, Joe71, wehatefrenchie, amit

  • hartwick89

    To the idiot with the ludicrous name the hell with you and your comments…

    It is impossible that you are an Arsenal supporter…

    You probably support MANIOU…I can smell you from afar… ANd you don’t smell good.

  • Finsbury

    Barry is Barbados AKA H*ward from ACLF.

    Just a troll.

  • Tohellwithfrenchie

    Why because i support Arsenal FC rather than Arsene FC?…

    So be it

    Enjoy your man crush

    Remember blind faith will do horrible things

    Tata

  • walter

    Pramos you said:
    “@walter – Actually if you watched it you would see that Dunn was being marked by Ccampbell and backed into him pushing Campbell into Fabianski”

    Let me explain the rulebook a bit but in fact the answer is right under your nose but you didn’t see it: Like you said: Dunn is PUSHING Campbell into Fabianski.

    Pushin an opponent=FOUL. And you can push with every part of the body. Mostly you can see a push with the hands or an arm. But backing in to a player is also a foul. The only time you can back in to a player without making a foul is when you are in control of the ball.

    But in this case the ball was in the air, not in control of Dunn so he was not allowed to run in to another opponent. He wasn’t going for the ball, he was going into an opponent.

    In fact you can also call it obstruction from Dunn. If you stand still you don’t have to go out of the way for an opponent (except if you obstruct the keeper) but because he was backing into Campbell Dunn was not standing stil and he obstructed Campbell.

    The ref had two ways of giving a foul against Blackburn: pushing and obstruction.

  • walter

    And with the first goal the Blackburn player put his arm out and touched Fabianski who was going for the ball. How on earth a ref does not punish this is beyond me.

    In fact if I see a team using that tactic I call to the players before the corner is given that if they touch the keeper or stand in his way, I will give a foul. And when they do I just have to do this 2 times and they stop with this as they know by then I don’t allow such things on my field, as any ref should do. That is refs who come on the field in order to follow the rules that is.

  • walter

    If you have any further questions about the rules, just ask but don’t make up your own rules. You just look stupid like those pundits mostly do on MOTD or some other programms where they think they know a thing about the rules because they kicked against a ball at some stage in their live.

  • hartwick89

    @ridiculous name- you are entitled to support Arsenal however you wish….

    Just don’t do it here…

    Remember I said we left your bogous websites a long time ago…

    Don’t come in here…

    Go home….

  • Matthew B

    ‘WENGER YOU ARE A FUCKING WANKER,THE BOARD ARE FULL OF SHIT’

    You know… with all the wankers and c**ts football is rife with, it makes my fucking blood boil when idiots like you call Arsene Wenger a wanker.

    What have you ever done for my club? Who are you to call Arsene Wenger a wanker?

    You are a know-nothing and a foul mouthed little man. Arsenal are not being run to your satisfaction?

    Piss off and support Spurs.

  • walter

    And you know what : I still love my Arsenal, I still love my players, I still love our manager.

    Rome wasn’t build in one day.

    Our first succesful team wasn’t build in 5 years. It took even Chapmann around 7 years (5 years for one cup) to have his team in good shape.

    Those who really cant wait to win something: you have 5 days left to make up your mind. Go to Chelsea or to Utd.

    I will come to the Emirates on Sunday to SUPPORT my cub, our players and our manager.
    It’s so easy to support your team when you win, but supporting your team is what you must do when we face defeat. Then you can show if you are a real supporter.

    I really wonder what age some of those guys have. Some of them really sound like spoilt children.

  • Matthew B

    I’m sure everyone’s had a moan about the team, players, tactics and the manager from time to time. But to call Arsene a ‘w**ker’ and a ‘prick’ is just the wrong side of enough for me.

    It’s just so bloody wrong to abuse a man who’s poured his heart and soul into this club. He’s revolutionised the club (and the entire league!), given us glorious football and principals we can be proud of.

    We’re Arsenal. We’re not some new money oik of a team that’s bought it’s way to glory, so why start now?

    We have a rich history and a tradition all the fans can be proud of. We play beautiful football (when we can) and most of the time that works out pretty well for us.

    So we’ve had a few barren years? Support the team! They’ve been good to you, now you return the favour.

  • Alcovinco

    Que sera sera
    Whatever will be will be
    We always love Arsenal
    Que sera sera

  • Pete The First

    A bit of balance?

    I don’t think he deserves the abuse, but Arsene does need to look at the team.

    Something seems a little rotten in the team at the moment. Some positions need re-enforcement, starting with the keeper.

    It’s easy to criticise the referee, but when we make Blackburn’s job easy with comical defending it seems that we hiding behind excuses.

    All those that travelled to the game should be refunded the price of the ticket, because they did not get value.

  • Adeyemi

    A true arsenal fan supports arsenal with passion and critisize with facts and not their stupid thoughts,,,,,I have also been feeling bad after todays match but to now call Arsene all kinds of name for giving the so called unworthy arsenal players a chance to play and keep the club in the same top four is rather outrageous.Totts have spent aout thrice what arsenal have spent and they ant certain of top four yet,,,,Liverpool have always been spending and are now in shakles,,,,Man utd spends and today they are contesting for the premier league crown at the expense of a debt Arsene would never coach a club for,,and Chelsea,,,,,you all know the league is theirs but what would you say about the finance and risk of losing abrahmovich in one Night,,,,I enjoy reading this fans when they post all sort of shit whenever the result aint great cos it really tells me Why i would b a Nigerian arsenal Supporter,Dont you all know about Finances and dont you know the meaning of being in a better financial state than the rest of the world.

  • hartwick89

    Here is a solution….

    We buy Cesc Fabregas….

    Alex Song…

    Manny Almunia…

    Thomas Vermalean….

    William Gallas….

    Aaron Ramsay….

    Gael Clichy…

    Have Van-Persie all season…

    So whilst you catastrophists claim the indecencies of Wenger and indecencies of the youth you overlook the obvious…

    As the broken record keeps stating this over and over again… You keep up with your broken record again and again and again….

    You catastrophists

  • BlindFaith

    Geez chill out hartwick89

    Okay we got it your a True Gooner
    And we the ones who speaks our mind is plastic

    We have injuries problem for three season
    Is it wrong to question why is it not solved?
    Is it wrong to question why there is not any improvement in key areas?
    I agree insulting Wenger is not the right thing to do
    But one thing for sure he is not as perfect and God-like as most of you say he is
    Like any man he has flaws
    And that is costing Arsenal

    So if wanting Arsenal to challenge for tittle is called a “Trophy Hunter”
    Than why the hell the club bother competing?

  • woodpile blackie

    CAN WE GET THE BANDWAGON ROLLING THAT WE MUST MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO SIGN STEPHEN IRELAND FROM citeh….
    CAN WE GET THE BANDWAGON ROLLING THAT WE MUST MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO SIGN STEPHEN IRELAND FROM citeh….

  • hey Toni

    What are you going to do with the propergander machine now.

    Black 2 Arsenal 1

    I told youmonths ago. Hes Delusional.

    We need 1 World class goalkeeper

    2 Worldclass centre backs.

    1 Defensive midfielder hench man

    1/2 World class strikers.

    He wont do it Toni.

    He cant admit he was wrong with some of his players.

    I teel you Toni he has a bad start to next Season and they will run him out of town.

    The thing is the A K BEST brigade are so fearfull they wont know what to do.

    His squad is being caught up by numerouse clubs.

    If he doesnt buy, and buy big. Hes done.

    Stu

  • Stats do not help with Denilson.

    It does not show when he has no pace to chase players down and just stops running.

    Or positional sense

  • This end of season collapse is on and underway.

  • Zul

    dear Walter..
    yes,we can say that the ref was poor,
    or we lost lots of players due to injuries,
    blah,blah..
    but it was a football game,11 against 11,
    can’t you see how lazy diaby and nasri was?
    where was the fighting spirit,the pride of wearing the cannon on their chest?
    forget about silves who still can laughing after almost scored an own goal..
    soooo disgrace to play for this team..

  • tim

    If there’s one thing AW should take from this, it’s that he cannot trust referees alone. The “policing” has to be done ourselves.

    I can’t stand it when Allardyce openly brags about his anti-football. So next season, I think we need to have the mentality that when teams like Blackburn and Stoke play rugby, we will be punch them in the face, like they deserve. An eye for an eye.

    It’s very cynical, yes, but I think it’s time.

  • hartwick89

    Stubby spelled backwards ybbuts is what you r….

    nuf said!

  • @Walter – The crux of the issue lies in this comment from Fat Sam

    “You can’t give everything as a foul on the goalkeeper and he certainly gave his fair share.”

    The simple point is that he knows no ref in England has the courage to call foul every single time even if he knows it’s a foul, just like no ref has the courage to award many penalties that we deserve, or to book people consistently for cynical fouls. This is rationalized by stupid statements like the second half of that quote which says he gave his fair share. What does it even mean!?

    Once you know that it’s just a percentage game. if you have about 15 set-pieces in the whole game, and you foul on all of them, chances are the ref will call 8 or so. 5 or 6 will be handled by the keeper and the defence and 1-2 you will score, albeit on the back of a foul. If the defenders foul you back chances are you will get a penalty. That’s enough to get a result.

    A bit off topic but since Walter was discussing the ref issue that others had raised, I thought I’d chip in.

  • amit

    i hope at least now we should have fans who will go to the arsenal stadium for the last match with banners and boards that will plea wenger to sign a goalkeeper…

    i m not askin da manager to leave, that is not the solution…the fans should come out in the stadium and make wenger know that enough is enough…NOW BUY SOME PLAYERS….

    5 years in a row n da guy still says the same things all over again…that we have risen as a team der has been development…as the season draws to a close i still feel we have gone a step below from last season…

    bring in a goalie akinfeev please….bring a defender at least 1…and please bring a striker atleast being chamakh…i m not asking to spend a 100 million…but spend something and buy these 3 players…

    and walter i hope you start getting critical from now on..and no we wont think your pride & principles are broken…but you have to concede your faith now just a bit!!!

  • gs

    For one, I’m desperately disappointed with the way the game played out yesterday. Arsenal barely created anything and didn’t seem to have any urgency – this is one issue that has to be addressed. For some reason, blackburn, wigan and even spurs were much sharper than arsenal, and these are the small things that are the difference between sides.

    Why then, are our players so sluggish? You can tell that their game has slowed down considerably and they’re always cautious with the ball. Like every other fan, I was tearing my hair out when we went 2-1 down and barely made any in-roads toward their goal and kept passing back to Campbell. Something has to be done, someone has to take charge and make a difference in the team when cesc isn’t around. Unfortunately, there’s no excuse for their performance this time round – players like Vela, Walcott, Traore are fresh, having played little this season, so perhaps they could have done more. This is one issue that has to be addressed.

    However, to denounce the season as a dismal failure after these defeats is a kneejerk reaction and simply dismissing the efforts of the team over the entire season and unfairly classifying this last month of poor form as symptomatic of the season when it clearly hasn’t been. Admittedly, there are many areas that should be worked on that have been present for much of the season (apparent lack of fitness/sharpness/committment) but results have generally been good over the course of the season.

    I believe Wenger wants his team to play fair and open football, making the team vulnerable to opponents who would pull all sorts of tricks out just to win. In a sense, that is an admirable quality, but it gives the team a lack of edge in the eyes of fans. However, if we consider the history and spirit of sport, isn’t the most important quality sportsmanship?

    ‘Citius, Altius, Fortius’ (faster, higher, stronger)

    This is the Olmypic motto. Notice how it doesn’t say ‘win, win, win at all costs’. How many times have we derided cheats in sport? From drug doping to gender tests etc. It’s strange that we don’t see the same sportsmanship in football, as we’re fine with players who consistently foul to win a game and ‘take a yellow card for the team’ when it’s obviously against the rules.

    Some may say it’s ‘part of the game’ and we shouldn’t be naive, but I say it’s sportsmanship. Play the game according to it’s rules and principles, not just to win. Sure, fight as hard as you can against a better team, but do it fairly instead of committing cynical fouls when your team is threatened and justify it with ‘but they got a freekick so it’s fair’. It still goes against the principle of sportsmanship, and should be worth a thought even if we are not in a position to change it.

    Stats do not tell the entire story – maybe Walter or Tony could do an article examining the areas and manner in which Arsenal is fouled versus the manner in which our players refuse to take a player our without going for the ball. I think it would make for interesting reading, and maybe let us see beyond the ‘if players a blocking a goalkeeper he should push and do anything he can to get them out of his way’ that I heard on the commentary. Isn’t pushing illegal in the game? So are we suggesting that in order to compete, our team has to sink to their level? Thus, it’s always ironic to see/hear the old adage ‘Same old Arsenal, always cheating’ when we’re the cleanest side in the league. Even Eboue has cut out his diving.

    Maybe that’s not what other fans want, but I’m proud that we’re playing fair. Accuse me of taking the moral high ground, but I’d rather support a side that has these principles than one which won by unsportsmanlike behaviour.

    That being said, as much as sportsmanship is important, so is committment, and committment was severely lacking yesterday in a lot of the players. As far as we can admire our side for sticking to its principles, they still need to give 100% in their games and not capitulate in the manner that they have in this last month of games.

    Let’s hope that our team will prevail next season with these issues addressed without compromising on our principles. For now, I believe the season has already ended, not just for the fans but the players as well.

  • Gf60

    So many sad, imbecilic comments coming out of the woodwork. What I’m seeing is a side that is close to a World War 1 brigade having massive casualties, no reinforcements, running low on ammo and being shelled non stop…often by their own side. “Friendly” fire it’s called. Just as damaging as hostile fire. The result? Combat stress reaction: The most common symptoms are fatigue, slower reaction times, indecision, disconnection from one’s surroundings, and inability to prioritize. Recognise the symptoms?

  • tim

    @GS — Nice comments. Very admirable and well said.

    The team has faced an inordinate amount of adversity, and has rallied back so many times. But with trophies out of reach, and South Africa beckoning, it’s entirely understandable why certain players seem less than 100% committed.

    But at this level, it is inexcusable.

    It’s the mentality that makes the difference. It’s why in his interviews, Wenger stresses “mental strength” above all else, and probably the reason why he sold Adebayor.

    Our team needs to end the season strong, and to give the fans a good show against Fulham next Sunday. They need to show some heart and desire.

    If they don’t, well, I think the D&Gers will have more than enough momentum heading into the off season…there’s nothing more dangerous than a rabid mob calling for peoples’ heads…

  • tim

    @Gf60 — Excellent metaphor. Entirely right.

    Unbridled negativity only hurts when the team is already down.

  • walter

    Desigunner you said:
    @Walter – The crux of the issue lies in this comment from Fat Sam

    “You can’t give everything as a foul on the goalkeeper and he certainly gave his fair share.”

    The way you describe it is the way it went. At first the ref did his duty and punished the fouls on the keeper. But then he stopped doing this. Why? Only he will know.

    But in fact this makes it even worse. The ref clearly knew the rules in the first part of the game and did make the correct calls. So I think it should be worth investigating why he stopped making those calls. In fact he stopped making those calls from the moment we had taken the lead.

    Was it intentional? Or was it just the ref losing it (once again) after some time in the game?

    Like you said Desi, from anti football points of view it is worht taking the gamble. No ref will give a yellow card for pushing the keeper so you can repeat this over and over again till the ref closes his eyes and you can sore from it.

    Every team can chose its tactics to win a game but when it comes to a deliberate fouling tactic of the keeper then we go further down the wrong road.

  • walter

    In fact to stop this tactics there is one thing you can do.
    In fact you should get the defenders out of the way and only leave the strikers surrounding the keeper.
    And when the corner is given the keeper should take a few steps as if he is going for the ball, should run against an attacker and go down.
    If the ref doesn’t give a foul there are only 3 options : complete incompetent, blind or bent.
    We can all assume that most refs don’t need a blind dog to walk on the streets so it should be 1 or 3 or both 1 and 3.

  • cape gooner

    @desigunner – good post. Not surprising, yours is the only other blog I read.

    @Walter. Walter, you say earlier and then repeat at 7:33 that a player has the obligation to get out of the way of the goalkeeper except when he is in control of the ball. Have I understood correctly? If so, please you give me the rule number where it says this so that I may be able to quote it.

  • Joe

    I AM DISGUSTED.

    I CAME HERE FOR THIS MORNINGS FUNNIES AND ALL I FIND IS THE SAME LAME ASS STORIES FROM YESTERDAY, JUST WITH A FEW MORE REGURGITATED WENGER QUOTES THROWN IN.

    What are you all saying about the absolute zero contact on Papianksi for the second goal?

    The more deluded the answer the better please.

    Help to keep Untold the NUMBER 1 spot for a window into the minds of the tiniest minority of fans with the strangest views in football.

    YOU ROCK OUR WORLD X X X

  • walter

    Joe the answer is written over here about the second goal. There was a foul on Campbell.

  • walter

    Cape Gooner;
    From the fifa rules page 113 (115 on my computer):

    It is an offence to restrict the movement of the goalkeeper by unfairly impeding him, e.g. at the taking of a corner kick.

    Every season we get a few things that are put under extra attention and this was 2 seasons ago if I remember correct. They showed video evidence on this and guess what… they showed images, among others, of Bolton – Arsenal to show how the ref got it wrong and what should be banned from the games.
    Remember the Bolton manager in those days?

    So the instruction on how the rules should be applied in that summer course was clear: every attempt to obstruct the goalkeeper in his movements should be given as a foul.

    On the other hand in those days they instructed us to give more fouls against defenders that are haning on their attackers also to keep the balance between defenders and attackers as much as can.

  • walter

    last sentence should have been defenders holding the attackers so they can not run freely should be given as a penalty.

  • When did Untold Arsenal become Le Grove? I’d strongly recommend moderation of comments really Tony.

    Oh and I think we ought to sell Cesc. The boy is useless. Anyone agree with me?

  • walter

    And in those days (Bolton days) the goalkeeper was Lehman.Even he couldn’t do anything about those things. When a keeper is fouled there is not much more you can do. You can only hope for a good ref.

  • Joe

    Every team we come up against does the same to Cech after his dodgy spell, Arsenal included.

    Hypocrites!

  • Joe

    Also, forgive me for being so bold, Wenger said in his post match moan that Fabianski was fouled, you must be mistaken Walter, or maybe you need to read the smallprint under ‘.

  • Joe

    Untold Arsenal:Arsenal News.

    It would seem you are at odds with the speaker of all truths?

  • Joe

    He did say for both goals didn’t he?

    Oh yes, so he did!

  • walter

    I don’t care what Wenger has said or not Joe. My comments on the fouls were on this site (and other sites) before the interview with Wenger came on arsenal.com.

    And yes because of the push on Campbell(=foul) who was pushed against Fabianski it was the goalkeeper that suffered from the initial foul.

    And unless you can give me the changed version of the rules where it is printed: you can push defenders or you can obstruct goalkeepers I would advice you to read the rule book and the instructions. It’s only a few hundred pages. Maybe you have something interesting to tell after that. Please also take the course to become a ref and a whole world will go open before your eyes.

  • walter

    And Joe if the other teams do the same against Cech than this also is a foul. But forgive us for sticking to our own team on this site.

  • Joe

    You don’t care what Wenger has said? This obviously is turning into Le Grove.

    Yes Walter, we all know you were a ref. Well done mate.

    We also know from here all refs are bent right. Figure that one out.

    Once again I should not be listening to the media/press/my own two eyes but to an extremely biased fan site run by a dodgy ex-ref and a super-fan. Makes perfect sense really.

    I think not but good try!

  • Joe

    You should listen to the poster who suggested moderating posts here, you could truly have the floor then and just censor those who disagree 🙂

  • Joe

    As for sticking to your own team? LOL. I do read this site quite often you know (usually between squinted eyes and tears of laughter). Man iou, Chav scum, tiny tots, fat slugs. You can’t leave it alone can you.

    Seriously, this is the sort of talk I’d expect in my 4 year olds nursery class!

  • walter

    Joe, I am a ref. I have never said all refs are bent. But I know enough to know that some of them are.

    You don’t have to believe me when I say things about the rules. Just go to fifa.com look for the rules of the game, read them and try to understand them.

    To understand the rules completely you must also know the instructions that are being given to the refs every year. Because they tell us how you must give interpretation to the rules on the playing field.

    Joe as you mention Le Grove and censorship : that is the place to be. Like Tony said he allows everything as long as it doesn’t get him in to jail or trouble.

    I think you misunderstood me as I was saying that when I write articles it is always in relation with Arsenal itself. I think everyone can come over here but I don’t think you can expect from me (or Tony) to write an article about: “Blackburn’s tactics against Chelsea”. I think there will be enough blogs from Chelsea fans who can do this job. You might like that over here but I think that 99,9% or our readers would not like it. So there was no need to call me hypocrite.

    And now I will set myself to write an article upon the rules. If you allow me. 😉

  • Abhishek Kumar

    Hey Joe

    I fail to understand that do you love or hate Arsenal. And why. All you have is critisicm. How can a team which reached QF in champions league and 3rd in PL be so bad.

    Even if we draw our next match we will be third. Why not enjoy our season and see these matches like Carling Cup matches. Not much left to win or lose.

  • Joe

    Abhishek – I don’t love Arsenal but the only man on the planet I HATE is the tax man. I came here once for a bit of sensible debate but was met with rudeness, name calling and downright propaganda about your club. Now I just come to laugh after defeats or when Wenger spills his sour guts to the press about how hard done by he is.

    Walter, the rules really don’t come into it here, well only those about 50/50’s in the box. Campbell was stationary in amongst a battle for a ball. Fabianski gave no warning, no shout to his own team he was coming and jumps into Sol, Sol was not pushed unfairly. At 6 foot whatever he is and the weight he carries (he’s certainly not fat but a big man nonetheless) should he really be being bullied in the area at all by players who certainly make no illegal contact, moreso should he not have actually jumped for the ball anyway? At least this would have seen him up-ended IF there was a foul. Should he not be holding players off defending his keeper?

    As mentioned earlier, this is a tactic seen against us many times so it’s something we have dealt with ourselves most weeks, yet never a free kick awarded to us?

    I have seen replays of many angles and find that behind the goal to the left is a good one.

  • walter

    Sorry Joe, but since when do the rules dont come in to it when we talk about fouls?
    The thing you drag in to the discussion like Sol is “6foot” that is totally besides the issue. There is nowhere in the rule book a line that is saying: if the opponent is 6foot you are allowed to push him or obstruct him.

    In my opinion there are two fouls made on Campbell: pushing and obstruction or impeding the progress of an opponent: rulebook:

    “Impeding the progress of an opponent means moving into the path of the opponent to obstruct, block, slow down or force a change of direction by an opponent WHEN THE BALL IS NOT WITHING PLAYING DISTANCE OF EITHER PLAYER.
    All players have a right to their position on the field of play, being in the way of an opponent is not the same as MOVING IN TO THE WAY of an opponent.
    Shielding the ball is permitted. A player who places himself between an opponent and the ball for tactical reasons has not committed an offence as long as the ball is kept within playing distance and the player does not hold off
    the opponent with his arms or body. If the ball is within playing distance, the player may be fairly charged by an opponent.”

    Dunn was backing in on Sol and pushing him backwards. If Dunn would have stand still like a pilar he would not have commited a foul. But because he moved in to the path and blocked Campbell it was a foul.

    What is your next argument : the weightof Campbell. Oh no you used that already. Sorry but the only weight that is mentioned in the rule book is the weight of the ball. And that has to be between 410g and 450g.

  • Joe

    You can laugh off my argument all you want but just like yours, it is purely opinion.

    Only difference being your opinion differs to most of the modern world other than a select bunch of Arsenal fans.

    Campbells weight wasn’t the issue, but you knew that. It was the ease with which such a big man was negated by opposing players but that is Arsenal all over. Expecting the nice men to play your way and not push or harry us on corners.

  • Joe

    You could also answer why Sol wasn’t aware of Fabianski. Was there no shout?

    Poor defending+terrible keeping=bent ref

    I know your equations now!

  • Joe

    Finally (I’ll leave you till end of season now).

    I refuse to look at rules because there is no point if we cannot agree what we are seeing on the footage.

    At least I hope you can agree with the sentiment in this!

  • amit

    as a critic and yes i m..and bfore ppl start yelling at me, yes i love arsenal!! 🙂

    the point is walter, tony and other critics and fanboy’s..dont you all agree that WE NEED A GOAL KEEPER????????????

    JUST A PLAIN QUESTION….GIVE A ANSWER DO WE NOT NEED A KEEPER FOR CHRIST SAKES???????????????

    DO ALL DA FANBOY’S JUST FOR THE SAKE OF PRIDE LIKE WENGER BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD GO WITH FLOPIANSKI???

  • cape gooner

    @Joe

    I think the footage is clear. Dunn vigerously backed into Campbell, who barged Fabianski. Even the Sky commentator, when he saw the replay for the third time, said in a high pitched voice “You can’t do that”. Makes you wonder what he was doing when the replay was shown the first two times!

  • walter

    Joe or whoever,

    what would have happened if Sol would push Dunn back? Dunn would have gone done and shout for a penalty.
    As a defender it is tricky to push an attacker because there is a severe penalty, penalty and if you are unlucky you can get a yellow or red card.

    As an attacker you can push all the opponents and abd the keerp and if you are unlucky the ref gives a freekick.

    So what should Campbell have done? Risk a penalty? Push Dunn to the ground so that Fabianski could have a free run to the ball? And see the ref give a penalty against Arsenal?

  • walter

    Joe, if you refuse to look at rules then why are you watching football? The game can only be played properly thanks to those rules. And the rules must be applied to play it in a correct way.

    Why not go even further and attack the keeper even when he has the ball in his hands like in the old days? Why not allow the players to kick the ball out of the keepers hands like in the old days? What if a team starts this tactic and a ref let it go? Should we then just say: Oh yeah great way to play football? Were do you stop crossing the line?

    Why not take the refs away and end up with something that could be called free style football where you can kick, break legs, hit the opponents as much as you like.

    The rule book is the basic where football is built upon. If you don’t want to look at the rules then why even bother to look at football?

    And you can say you don’t like a certain rule and that is fine with me but all people who come on a field should know the rules and should try to play it according to the rules.
    Yes I am an idealist maybe and that will be one of the reasons I became a ref: just to make sure that the rules are followed as much as possibly can.

  • RedGun

    I think the defenders did not do enough to protect fabianski in fact the whole team didnt. I can not remeber Adams and Keown and the team standing watching while the opposition bullied our keepers they would have shoved them back out of the way.

    Yeah it happened with lehman also but our team had changed and yes we would have recieved an odd red card when they went down maybe …. but back then we recieved double maybe even treble the ammount of red cards we do now. However we were winning trophies by fighting for eachother.

  • goonerwife

    @tim I agree that we need to sort out this situation. As much as love the arsenal turning the other cheek. I think we should kick back. Whats a 3 game ban to show these teams that bullying will not work here. You cant play a gentlmanly game with touts.

    I think the players could have done better and i think the fans have let themselves and their team down. Make no mistake, the lousy fans have a hand in all this. You didnt do your best either. The players have let you( arsenal fans) down and you have let them down.

    @Tony the miserable sad people have found you and seem to have a problem with you deciding to support arsenal and Wenger. Why they feel its necessary to make you as miserable as they are is beyond me but they are bringing me down. they are ruining our little respite from the crazy.

    @ the negaholics
    Look, its up to you if you choose to drive yourself mad over football, take out your life issues on websites that promote positivity for the club. After all the reality of the situation is it doesn’t remove a hair from you body when arsenal loose. So, It probabaly time to grow up or at least spread your misery where you are wanted. NOT HERE!

  • The miserable and sad people are having a go at Untold I think because we do have a big audience (if it were just you, me, Walter and Phil they wouldn’t bother!)

    But I think they are also annoyed in that the site is resolute – we openly declare on the home page where we stand in a way that annoys them.

    However I find it very interesting. The email today for example where the writer said that Wenger was the worst manager ever, if we just took the last five years, was really interesting, because it reminded me to think about Wenger and Chapman.

    Both transformed a club going nowhere, and both had difficult times. These people would have seen Chapman off without any feeling of guilt, and then we would have had no club at all.

    It just shows that the great thinkers and and reformers are way above the capacity of many to understand what they are doing.

    Wenger, Chapman, Norris – I think it is an interesting theme to develop – and it has arisen because of comments on this site.

  • Joe

    If Blackburn put 2 men on the keeper then you put 2 men on them and tell your keeper not to stand stationary in the centre of the goal allowing them to dictate his position(like Fabianski).

    I mention tyhat this tactic has been used on Chelsea many times recently. Just you look how we deal with it. Cech is in motion, moving the blockers with him, JT and whoever is partnering him will then block in return (unlike Sol) freeing Cech, usually ending in a pile on the floor, a free kick to the defending team and everyone on here, on monday morning claiming that JT cheated and the ref helped him when what in fact happened was called defending against a physical attack and is an integral part of football.

    I know you don’t see this a lot at the Fly Emirates Stadium other than in your opponents as they dispatch you.

    That is why I feel there is no need for discussing the rules here, none have been broken. YOUR interpretation of them is your own undoing here I think Watty.

  • Joe

    Walter, in reply to your post at 3:06 :So what should Campbell have done? Risk a penalty? Push Dunn to the ground so that Fabianski could have a free run to the ball? And see the ref give a penalty against Arsenal?

    Campbell should have defended yes. Fabianski should have commanded his area, shouted at Sol to move and claim the ball. If Sol moved then I agree that the Blackburn players momentum could well have up-ended Fabianski and you might have got the decision you think you automatically deserve because the nasty man got too close.

  • Joe

    You seen to know all abbout the rules but not how to play the game itself. Shocking.

  • @ Cape Gooner: Thanks.

    @ Walter:

    I agree some teams going down the wrong road, or should I say some managers just live down the wrong road. That’s all they know. It’s a genuine problem but the other side is that we must be prepared to counter it.

    We do need someone in the team constantly talking to the ref, telling him about the problem, putting pressure on him to act. We also need our defenders to do better. Forget the second goal for a minute, for the first we left the goal scorer and the guy with the cross completely free inside our own box. We also allowed the ball to go between 6-7 players and reach the back post. Surely, this is in our hands and we must do better than that. After all, we know how the opposition will play and that the ref will bottle it. It’s not really a surprise.

  • Joe

    I was chatting with a colleague from occupational therapy (Lens fan, french) and he believes that Wenger needs more pressure to work and that he has suffered immensely since he became ‘The Genius’, in fact the new breed of fan who place him in as high a position as the club itself have ruined him.

    Now that is funny.