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It’s time to ask the doubters… Why are you an Arsenal Fan?



Great Expectations – Why are you an Arsenal Fan?

Guo Sheng Lee

I’ve been putting off writing this piece for quite a while now, as work has limited the time I have to write for Untold. However, after reading the piece on Le Grove and actually visiting the blog for the first time, I felt it was time to write about the expectations of our fans and ask what supporting the Arsenal really means to us.

In this piece, I will not try to tell others what to do as supporters as I believe everyone has their right to their own opinion, but I will definitely question certain preconceptions of entitlement that most fans seem to have with regards to their club.

For starters, we should ask ourselves – why do we support Arsenal? What made us truly want to be involved with this club? Was it the influence of family? The style of football that is played? Or is it success?

I believe that we should ask ourselves what really made us supporters, as I’m certain most of us never truly thought about it, despite it being absolutely fundamental. This is a question we have to ask ourselves and find the answer to before we can continue with the next round of questioning. I’m not going to try to offer any broad categories of support, as I believe the experience of being a fan is a very personal one, and you really have to put it in your own words to achieve self-actualization.

What I’ll do though, is briefly share what made me an Arsenal supporter. I’m a late supporter of the club, as I only began watching Arsenal in 2001. I set out watching football to socialize with my friends, and never intended to support a club, but as the years went by, I gradually became a supporter of Arsenal because I enjoyed the stylish football being played that simply wasn’t available anywhere else.

I suppose that was the first level of support, and it’s only been recently that I’ve grown to want the best for the club and admire its principles away from the field. Thus, you could say that I support the club because I enjoy the style of football being played and the decency of the club that I’ve witnessed over the last few years.

As a fan, I’d say I have a stake in the club in terms of passion and commitment, but much less so in terms of actually being a shareholder or a season ticket holder, due to the fact that I live in Singapore.

However, I believe that does not give me less of a stake in the club, as it is an emotional investment – it’s pretty terrible staying up for a Champions League match at 3 in the morning only to see the club get hammered by Barca, so much so that it affects me for the next few days, but I’m still happy to be a supporter of the club.

I don’t feel that it was a waste of time as it’s unrealistic to expect one’s club to win every single game. However, that being said, I do feel for the away fans that paid good money and took the time to go to the Nou Camp to cheer the club on. It’s something I don’t think I’m able to comprehend due to a lack of experience, but on the face of it I have to say I admire them, and if they have any complaints, I’d totally understand.

However, complaining is one thing, but when it reaches the point where it results in calls for the sackings of the board, manager and players, and descends into a cloud of negativity, I really do believe that we have crossed the line. As supporters, we have a choice to either support the club or not support the club, and it’s entirely up to us to choose.

It’s not as though it’s the government and we have no choice but to pay taxes, but it’s simply optional when it comes to supporting the Arsenal. We are not citizens of Arsenal, we are but supporters who willingly invest our time and money to support the club, and let’s be honest, the club is a business and we are its consumers.

While the club may often portray itself as a community, and attempt to draw in fans, it is still a business after all.

As consumers, for example, we don’t buy branded goods simply because our parents have done the same, and we don’t ask to sack the board of Calvin Klein for shoddy, expensive briefs. We have other options and we know that, but we don’t seem to see the parallel in football. If you don’t support Arsenal’s board, manager and players, what exactly are you supporting the club for?

Too often I read comments by Arsenal fans on sites such as Sky Sports or the Sun saying that they support the club but not its current management, and call for change. Quite frankly I find that ridiculous as it means that one supported the club in the past but not now because of change. Change is inevitable, and once it happens you have a choice once more to support the club or not to. I suppose it depends on what we are focused on – what we want, or what is best for the club.

Thus, is it too far-fetched to say that some fans have lost perspective? I believe that when we’re discussing matters of the club, we have to consider all the other fans as well. For some reason, those who continue with their negativity don’t really seem to be supporting the club, but are rather under the illusion that they are doing what is best for the club.

From what I’ve read, they believe that failure to win trophies for 5 years means that the manager is past it and it’s time for revolution. While revolution has indeed had historical precedents in providing progress such as in the case of the French Revolution, it has also brought misery as witnessed by the Russian Revolution. Great changes result in short term turmoil without any certainty of progress, and affect the stability of the club.

Unless those who call for the heads of our present leaders are willing to step up and assume responsibility for the club while guaranteeing that we win all our games, I really do not see the appeal or validity of their words.

True, the team does have its weaknesses and tickets are expensive, but is it really in the interest of the club to abandon its financially prudent approach at the moment when it has consistently remained competitive? Is it best for the club to introduce instability and take a risk by replacing everyone and spending beyond our means?

No, I don’t believe it is, and I can’t seem to find any argument that says it’s in the interest of the club. Therefore, I have to say that it seems more like self-interest of individuals. Individuals who just want their money’s worth, or their team to win at any cost for whatever reason. These are the same people who view the end as the most important rather than the process and claim it’s for the good of the club to keep winning. I struggle to understand that line of argument, as I would rather watch the team stick to its principles and fight for the title while entertaining us fans rather than employ Stoke tactics and win the league.

In the end, football is part of the entertainment industry, and what does it mean to win when you’re not entertained? Can we really be happy if season after season we see defensive football and long ball tactics once again? Wouldn’t that simply be regression to a time when the EPL wasn’t popular at all, and lead the league into a similar fate to Serie A? A

As a consumer I’d seriously reconsider watching the team if that was to happen. For some reason, winning has become the most important thing these days, and anyone who thinks otherwise is seen as a loser. Football may well be a zero-sum game, but do we really need the success of a club to make us winners as opposed to losers?

I believe it would be a sad day when we depend on the club’s success to define ourselves as winners when we can simply be content with other aspects of the game and still be happy in our lives. Of course, we want the team to win, but it’s most definitely not the end of the world when it doesn’t.

Every season is a gamble. No one knows who is going to win the league, the cups, and much less any game. Upsets happen, but they do not make a team a losing one overnight. This season, we have won more games than we have lost, so why isn’t the team still a winner?

I don’t believe it is reasonable to expect a team to win a trophy every year considering all the factors in the game, and that there really isn’t any rational alternative to simply hoping things go our way that year. However, if anyone out there is confident enough to say that he can guarantee success and be a greater manager than Wenger, I’d really like to see him substantiate that claim, but I won’t do it by risking the club. It’s great if the club can help fulfil our own interests as supporters, such as winning trophies, but the reality is that it does what is best and most prudent for the club.

In conclusion, everyone has their right to an opinion when they support a club, but we need to ask ourselves what exactly we are trying to achieve, and whether it’s really for the good of the club, or more specifically, Arsenal.

I personally believe in the work done here in Untold by Tony, Phil and Walter by trying to keep the spirits up, as I believe that fans can be the (pardon the cliché) 12th man. On the other hand, I don’t enjoy reading about others trying to incite discontent and much less organize it, as I don’t see what purpose it serves other than the self-interests of a few that is twisted as being for the good of the club. They may continue doing as they wish, as it’s a free world, but I’d question how productive such things really are, and why they support the club.

Why do you support the Arsenal?

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64 comments to It’s time to ask the doubters… Why are you an Arsenal Fan?

  • walter

    Mr. Lee,
    Great article!

    But be aware that you will be called a loser or someone with a loser philosophy after this article. BUT not by me because my feelings are very similar to yours. Which makes me also a loser off course 😉

    Maybe some people should look at themselves and wonder why they still pretend to be Arsenal fans and what they are trying to do?

  • lp

    well done mate.

  • kc

    I’m not sure I agree with you, but I understand why you feel this way. The D&G crowd can get to be too much sometimes. But I believe that no one man is bigger than the team no matter whether its a player, manager, or board member. Without the fans there would be no club at all. If someone has the opinion that they love the club, but don’t like a manager or player on that club, that doesn’t make them not a loyal supporter. If anything the ones who react so over the top are most of the time the biggest fans around.

  • Gooneraside

    Well said, Guo Sheng Lee, well said.

    I’ve been fortunate (although it hasn’t always seemed that way) to have been an Arsenal supporter longer than you and have been so through some tremendous and some dire seasons.

    During my time, there have been good and bad managers (and I should imagine other admin. staff weren’t exactly blameless either), but The Arsenal survived.

    The point is that I believe that real fans didn’t and shouldn’t barrack the manager (even though there have always been a few LeGroaners). Most oof us left barracking our managers to opposing fans and generally just shrugged and waited for one of their managers to be bad. Even Billy Wright (a brilliant footballer and captain, but a shit manager) was supported – until his ineptitode was clear even to himself and he quit.

    The press – ah, there’s a different kettle of fish. As you know, they are there only to sell papers and nobody wants to buy papers without news. So they often need to overstress points or embellish on rumours or simply tell lies. And too many people are willing to believe everything they read – “It’s there in black and white, so must be true.”

    To be a true fan, I believe that you follow your team through thick and thin and do what you can to help them improve. I realise that many believe that they are doing that by slagging the manager, but I simply doubt they do anything but harm that way.

    Like you, I live too far away to support the lads live as often as I would like, but I do see nearly all games thanks to the wonder of internet, and when I do get the opportunity to attend the HOF, I’m one of those who shakes his head at bad play or shouts “Come on!” or some such if I think a player isn’t giving his all. I believe that’s more supportive that all the booing and jeering that some believe helps.

    Anyway, enough of my thoughts. I really only commented to say that it’s great to read such good comments from a relatively new fan. Keep the faith.

  • I agree with the sentiments behind the post but some of the analogies in my opinion are wrong.

    If I were using CK underwear for more than a decade and all that time they gave me brilliant comfortable underwear but suddenly off late all their briefs gave me the rashes, I’d be majorly pissed and I’d sue them for sure. I’m not certain you can exactly compare the Arsenal to branded Consumer products.

    Two, A season is NOT a gamble, if it were any Tom Dick and Harry could be out there running the club. It’s more akin to a business, where you have quality input in terms of monetary investment, human resource and infrastructure and you expect an output which is reasonable when your input is considered. Ergo it is reasonable to expect a club of the stature of the Arsenal to win atleast one trophy every season. The reason why we have been so disappointed over the last few is the fact that we haven’t won anything.

    However, clearly, like you mentioned there have been some factors and circumstances which have resulted in us not winning and I am able to (after a week of sorrow and heartbreak) sit down and reason it out and accept the fact that the people running the club just want what’s best for the club, and by extension us fans. And of course I worship Arsene Wenger’s philosophy. That is what the D&G club hasn’t been able to do. We’re working within our means and I respect that.

    The rest of it is spot on though 🙂

  • EAC3

    There are supporters that remain loyal over a lifetime watching their team win and lose…and there are noveau supporters who jump on a bandwagon of success where their support of a successful team is almost a fashion item.. like a designer label..to have an Arsenal season ticket gives you an air of success a bit like a Rolex watch. The websites that give voice to these people when their team isnt winning a prize every season are symptomatic of this new floating supporter. When I first started my love affair with the Arse there were supporters that fluctuated from Arsenal to Spurs (or any other club) that was winning trophys …the barren years from 1954 to 1970 was a true test of a fans loyalty(and love) for the Arse but in those days we had no websites to express our frustration and criticism…thats progress? There have always been moaners and groaners but their griping and sniping at the team and the management and the Board was only heard on the terraces. Lets hope that when we next win a trophy (as we willquite soon) this type of supporter will switch their brand of small minded and illogical ranting to some other club.

  • Viza

    Well put Lee

    Am a supporter in Africa and you wouldn’t imagine what I had to go through to watch a game on TV in the early 2000’s.

    I love the club coz of how they play and what they stand for.

    Give me 5 more years of no trophies and i’ll give you 5 more years of loyalty.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Nice article young man , I have to agree with your you points and arguments.Ditto with Walter’s observation – I would not be bothered in the least to considered a ‘ loser’ by those whose opinions I don’t care for.As a 40th season veteran ,I ‘ ve heard them all.
    Most of the naysayers are young ,immature and illinformed but assume that only their opinions are correct.They demand sucess now without thinking long term.Ah the foolishness of youth !
    Reminds me of an old saying-” a young man is apt to think himself wise
    as a drunken man is apt to think himself sober”.

  • I support Arsenal since 1996.
    Almost never failed to catch 3am matches.
    High point of last season: The win against stoke was like an orgasm and I would like to have that feeling again with Arsenal.

    Whether win,lose or draw, I’m a gooner till I die.

    and I’m from Malaysia.

  • Rhys Jaggar

    I disagree with you Walter it is NOT a great article. It is an article which makes serious misjudgements about what football in England is about. As a person who hates the English but wants to turn the EPL into your plaything for whom you think you are some kind of moral arbiter, you might like to think about that…………

    ‘the club is a business and we are its consumers’ is the single statement which shows that this person does NOT understand the nature of English football AT ALL.

    Football as a consumer? If I don’t like your product I’ll go and buy someone else’s next season?? Get real. It’s nothing like that at all.

    Clubs in England, be that a professional football club, the local cricket club etc etc are part of the SOCIAL FABRIC OF ENGLAND. As such, whilst you are not required by law to be wedded to them for life, the decision to join or go elsewhere is not something you take each year. I know, for example, of an Oxford consultant doctor who needed to make a weighty decision about which golf club to join as it might affect his career progression. Joining some clubs is by referral only. It’s a badge of acceptability.

    In general, supporting a football club is a statement of personal beliefs, although for some, they are the beliefs handed down in the family, not to be challenged. They are predicated on your belief as to what the club actually is which may or may not be the actuality, as you don’t see what truly goes on behind the scenes in the main.

    So for some, if they thought their club (in this case Arsenal) represented one thing and now it clearly doesn’t, they either fight that or go. You are saying that as a paying customer you cannot fight, you can only go. Despite the raiders being foreigners and you being from the area where the club was founded. That is your opinion. One of someone who is clearly both anti-democratic and intrinsically aligned to a power base. That is your choice, but it is not one most would adhere to….

    For example, it would be a criminally racist act of Arsene Wenger to deliberately set up Arsenal in reality to discriminate against English players and to consider French and black Africans as intrinsically superior, to the cause of promoting the old French power axes at the expense of the English ones. It should be a sine qua non that, no matter how Belgians are treated, that Arsene Wenger should be blackballed for life from football in England, if not Europe, IF he acts in that manner. No matter what he has done in the game. Because that is beyond unacceptable, against the law of the land and quite simply scum. IF he has done that deliberately. And if you, Walter Broeckx, think otherwise, your refereeing career should be at an end…….IF he has done that.

    It is also a matter of principle that IF Arsene Wenger lets fans buy tickets for FA Cup games 200 miles away from London, then deliberately picks a team to be slaughtered, he is committing fraud on his ‘customers’, for which he should be sacked. Furthermore, he is obliged to pick his strongest side for an FA Cup semi-final if he sells tickets to fans at £80 a head on the dream of reaching the final in May. And he should be sacked if he doesn’t highlight to fans that he will pick a weakened side BEFORE they buy tickets, not once their money is spent. Particularly if he does not pick his latest signing who is Russian when he is playing a team owned by a Russian emigre Godfather. I repeat: he should be banned for bringing the game into disrepute. And if you, Walter Broeckx, think otherwise, your refereeing career should be at an end. Particularly after all your self-appointed pulpitry of the past 12 months………..

    It is a further matter of principle that IF you intend not competing for trophies for 4 years, yet charge the highest prices in the land whilst claiming that you are so close to Champions League glory, then you are engaged in a sophisticated deceit which is treating your paying customers with contempt. Now IF they were to simply say: ‘well screw you, I’m off to watch West Ham (or Chelsea or someone else)’, the concept of a club, a fan base and an enduring culture would disappear off the radar tomorrow. And the Board of Directors of Arsenal know it. So there are strong reasons for saying that managers who deliberately make misleading statements to elicit money from ‘fans’ are acting in a manner which would, in the financial world, lead to criminal charges of mis-selling. Think about that…………

    Where I think we can say we are is this: English clubs were bought by foreign interests who wish to break the local links by making the clubs a franchise, building foreign supporter groups who see the club as a business.

    Perhaps you, Walter Broeckx might enjoy greater authority as a moral arbiter if your writings in the past 12 months exuded principle, not personal self-aggandisement in doing your benefactors’ will??

  • Cujo

    Nice article.I agree,no man is bigger than the club,but u cant sack the coach when he’s doing the right thing.Its more important that the club survive in the long term than to win trophies by plunging themselves into debt.I know people are calling for top class signings,then suggest every tom dick n harry available, but what if Arsene doesnt rate these players highly?Then immediately people claim he doesnt want to spend the money.I support the club, the club is heading in the right direction, im happy 🙂

  • DSCH

    Because of Brian Yershon and Arsene Wenger in equal measure.

    Brian, for his enthusiasm; Wenger for his intelligence, and both for their humanity.

  • Cujo

    @Rhys Jagger: can you really blame Wenger for not having that English players in his squad? There isnt a big pool of talent to choose from, now is there? Just taking a look at the English world cup squad should tell you all you need to know. Have a good day all.

  • Richard B

    As someone who was born within half-an-hour’s walk of the ground and who has stayed loyal for over 50 years I can only emphasise the point made about the impact of the internet. In ‘the old days’ the only place that you’d pick up on the views of other fans was in the pub before the game or at the ground itself. As 90% of us were standing on the terraces (often in crowds bigger than The Emirates can take nowadays) if you found yourself standing next to a ‘moaner’ you’d probably have a conversation with him whether you agreed or disagreed or you’d move away and stand somewhere else.
    There have always been moaners and they seem to me to be united by their ignorance and shortsightedness.
    Now they can give vent to their feelings (and gain some notoriety in the process)via their blogs. Nothing has changed except the means by which those feelings and opinions are ‘broadcast’.
    The solution is the same as well – walk away and don’t give them any thought. But it’s not easy because, just as they are evangelical in their attitude so are those who view things differently. Both ‘sides’ dearly wish that they could reason with the other and win them over to their way of thinking.
    I would always argue that the ‘Untold’ view is far more based on fact and the opposite view almost wholly based on conjecture – ‘it’s obvious that we would be better off with anyone else as manager’. Unprovable tosh.
    Read it, if you must, but take it with a pinch of salt. And enjoy the fact that you are an optimist and that you get joy from supporting your club – and that you can share that joy with like minded souls by just standing in a different place on the terrace.

  • Umer46

    Gr8 artical Lee:D
    This is the my first comment on this blog being a regular reader but this artical just touched my heart:p
    I support Arsenal because of there style to rip apart any opposition with there flowing football. I live in pakistan where the football culture is rather new n u will find 90% of the people supporting MAN IOU n that is just bcuz there winning run lately or chelski due to there bought trophies. You can imagine what happens when u are the only supporter of arsenal n all ur friends are supporting man iou. Its horrible…..
    But i never watched them open there mouth when Sir TH14 was with us 😀 I get sleepless when my club loses but next day bring me more passion to support my culb arsenal. I do want trophies but in the right way not paying for it n i am sure wenger can dilever us that…..:D A bright saeason is infront of us so let the party start now till then cheers mate.

    Umer46

  • Dark Prince

    Well, everyone has a different opinion on this. And it would be wrong to classify others. Everyone is an arsenal fan over here, and everyone has different expectations from it. Some may not like that arsenal moved away from highbury, some may not like wenger, some may not like fabregas, some may not like our chairman. But Arsenal is not a single one of this. All these are just a part of Arsenal. And there might be things that we may not like or we may disagree with but eventually its Arsenal as a whole that we love. Nothing in this world is perfect, Not even football clubs. So we all love Arsenal as a whole. And just because some people have different opinions on certain things, doesn’t mean they are less of a a supporter.

  • walter

    Sorry to go off topic a bit but I think I must have stepped on someones foot during the last year without me knowing it. And by the look of it, it still is hurting in someway and is not forgiven. So now I just want to appologise if that has been the case and hope that we can continue our lives in some way, without turning it in to some kind of obsession.

    On topic: liked the old saying Brickfield Gunners 😉

  • gooner80

    I think being of arsenal is more like falling in love and getting married. You know they are the one for you,in a marriage there is going to be good times and bad. The difference with a marriage is that is virtually unheard of for a fan to get a divorce and dont know anyone who stops supporting a team, you cant just walk away.

    When things are not going well you can raise questions and doubts you can still love the person but know one is perfect and sometimes like with AW they can be blinded by their own passion.

    All those that keep talking about arsenal as a business are having a laugh, football hits our deeper nature, we are not consumers, my whole week, month even sometimes year can be affected by how well arsenal do.It is sad but they are in my blood.

    Frankly I dont believe everything Arsene says, I dont have rose tinted glasses, I do also know it is not all doom and gloom. Everyone has a right to an opinion and the first thing that comes out of peoples mouths is go support someone else when you criticize like you have just touched a nerve. On these blogs if you dont agree with the general consensus you get driven out of town, life aint black and white but a shade of grey. The truth IMO is somethings are not right because AW hasnt delivered and as supporters people have become divided personally I wouldnt give AW more than two more seasons if he cant do it within the next two I dont think he will ever do it there is only so long we can put up with the excuses and believe me I have heard them all so there is no reason to voice them, I support AW but the honey moon period is over

  • Ceeleo

    Mr. Lee I’d have to say that your article hit the nail right in the center of the head. Though i put it to you that show me an arsenal fan that doesn’t want to win at least a cup every year and i’ll show a cannon that’s about to backfire. Truth be said even you would cherish winning a cup and after seeing some of wengers youth being man-handled by the like of Chelsea and Man utd, we all know that we have enough of youths we need some generals.

    We all know that arsenal is encountering lesser funds than normal due to the repayments of loans and no-one is doubting the experience, tactics and knowledge of le prof, but the president cannot be saying one thing, whereas the manager says something else. I’m reffering back to when Mr. Gazidis said that we have funds to spend to buy players and Mr. Wenger comes up and says that we don’t have the funds…this is truly nerve racking as we as fans would love to have an experienced squad and rule the premier league like it was not to far ago with te invincibles.

    The invincibles themselves were proof that clubs need a mixture of experience and youth to move forward. We are not far from that all we require is a proven Keeper, two rocks at the back CB’s and a midfielder…and should Cesc leave(which will be inevitable eventually) we need to fill his position with a proven attcking midfielder as well.

    I have to say though that through all our problems we’ve experienced there’s no way that i’ll ever cease supporting the club that i have supported for 26 odd years…Go Gunners Go!!!

  • Geezer

    Great article! Being a fan for me is sticking with the club through thick and think, highs and lows, win or lose. I do find it ridiculous that there are fans who have no feeling for the history of the club and dont appreciate what arsene has done in his time here, we improved massively on last season, and people still calling for their heads?

  • Guo Sheng

    Hi Rhys,

    It was never my intention to force my views upon anyone, and it is merely my opinion that football these days is a business. I’m no great thinker or anywhere close to being an expert in these matters, so I accept that my judgement could be fundamentally flawed.

    I’ve read of the history of English football, and basically any sporting franchise, and I agree that it’s an integral part of the social fabric. However, I believe things have changed in recent years and it’s not possible to look at these clubs as anything other than businesses considering the vast amounts of money being spent, and the fact that it has now become a professional game geared towards international audiences.

    It’s inevitable that foreign investment is all around us these days – look around the world and we will see how it permeates the social fabric. Cosmopolitanism seems to be the key these days, and I suppose it’s only natural for traditionalists to want to reassert their identity, which is why we see ethnic cleansing and riots throughout the world. Now, I’m not saying that football is anywhere near as severe as ethnic conflict, but at times it would seem that the basis is almost the same if we read what the papers would have to say, and it makes people write and fight for a cause.

    I’m of the opinion however that there really isn’t a need to fight the way we do as fans, but anyone’s welcome to disagree. I am still young, and but a student of life, so I entirely respect your opinions. That’s why I started the piece saying that it is necessary to know the reasons for supporting the club, and I’m definitely not advocating my views over others.

    What I hoped to do was rather encourage discussion and hopefully have a meaningful debate as friends in a similar community and reach a common ground. All too often we see things as Good vs Evil, or Untold vs Le Grove (which works either way of course), but I believe we can come to a compromise as fans if we really thought about it, as it would be for the best of the club.

    We all have different reasons for supporting the club, and none of them are wrong. I’m not seeking to argue for any specific cause in this article, and perhaps that makes it a weak one, and I accept that. I just hope that it would act as a bridge between fans, by acknowledging our differences and thinking critically rather than stubbornly holding on to our beliefs for the sake of being right when it is actually to the detriment of the club.

    The body is made weaker when it battles itself. Balance is an important aspect, and with the internet I’m sure we can find common ground amongst us and keep the community united and strong.

  • Aatifmadre

    @Rhys jaggar. i understand your feeling of having to pay 80£ for a match and not getting the result you want but that’s part and parcel of the game. even barcelona went two season without trophies. liverpool is without trophies since 2006. but the difference is that we built a new stadium, have a very efficient youth system and yet compete for trophies. its like boxing with both hands behind your back. just think you just lost your job have to pay the house installments children’s school fees wife’s whims children’s fancies and top of that your chance to give the community dinner is on the corner so at that time you cannot buy a ferrari. this is the similar condition faced by arsenal and it prevailed and is not in a mess like manu or liverpool. so think before you take a swipe at others.

  • Marko

    Just one thing, you allways say that we don’t want our club to go back to long balls, and that kind of stuff, and to even win the league with that kind of play, but you forgot that current champions scored over 100 goals this season. So, it is possible to play attacking football and to win the league, we did it several times under Wenger, so it is possible even these days, not just 10 years ago, and we cant do it.
    That’s hurting me.
    I dont agree with this article at all, that kind of thinking to go and support another football club is simply not acceptable for a football fan.
    Will you stop support our club if we finally buy some decent players, try for one summer not to sell our best players and win something?
    Of course not, whole Asia will hear you singing and cheering!

  • BOOZY

    I all always come here to crappy articles by walter and his cohorts. This is the only site where being worried about your club’s lack of success, is seen as an act of betrayal.

    SINCE WE HAVE ALL CHOSEN TO BE BLIND.. the next time your kid, has a very low grade in school, or beats up a neighborhood kid, or get caught stealing candy in a store, or come back home 1.00 am, just dont do anything about it, after all you are meant to love and support them no matter what.

  • Richard B

    @BOOZY
    ‘Success’ is relative and, relatively speaking, Arsenal are more successful than 99.9% of clubs in Europe. The only clubs that are consistently more successful have achieved it at great cost and now face ripping up their business plans and long term strategies. They face far less certain futures that Arsenal does and their fans may end up paying far bigger prices (both financial and emotional) than the ‘blindly’ supportive elements on this blog.
    As the old saying goes – There are none so blind as those who will not see. And if you didn’t study the DNA of Arsenal before you started to be a fan then you missed a trick. The club, through Wenger, is merely continuing the policies that were in place decades ago. Not going into debt, developing your own players and being prudent with the money that you do spend has always, in the 50 years that I’ve supported them, been the foundations of how the club is run. It may not suit the short termists but for those of us who see beyond the end our nose it’s extremely reassuring.

  • Bart

    Funnily Boozy, yes, if one of my daughters came home with bad school results, was caught stealing sweets or came home late I’d still love her, even if she ended up a druggy living rough she’d be welcomed home anytime; she’s my daughter! Unconditional love and all that.

    Regarding blindness, maybe, just maybe you’re the one who is blind.

  • Arsefactor

    I support the current manager and board and have faith in them to provide success soon but I have to say I find this article very arrogant.
    You say that you don’t want to force your opinions on anyone else but then call into question other supporters loyalty if they don’t support the manager and board.
    I hate this whole ‘their not *real* supporters’ crap.
    I see no problem with a supporter wanting to sack the current manager, board or players if that is their opinion.
    It does not invalidate their loyalty as a supporter, it just means they have a different view on how Arsenal should be run.
    YOU may not like having them as fellow supporters but personally I do since to me one of the great things about football is being able to argue over differing opinions.

  • gunner 71

    Why am Im an Arsenal fan?

    I started supporting Arsenal at age 9, July 1970, 40 years ago. It was summer, no school, and I had nothing better to do but wait for those Littlewoods coupon that just kept coming through the post. I decided to join the first red team I saw, becuase my favourite colour was red (the kind of thing you would do when you are a kid). I could have joined Aldershot or Aston Villa, but the first red team was Arsenal. Little did I know I was about to support a great club, that went on to do the double that same season. I continued to support Arsenal unflinchingly through good and bad, even through the so-called days of “boring, boring Arsenal.”

    My issue against Walter and Lee, is I do not need to be told by you guys whether I am a true supporter or not, neither do you have the right to define who a true supporter is, when your own arguments simply follow the PR party line (AS YOU HAD ALREADY ADMITTED). I reserve the right to critisise my club when I feel they are not doing the right thing. For instance, I feel the club pays far more attention to its shareholders than the paying fans – who want us to be a bit more ambitious in the transfer market so that we have a fighting chance of winning at least one major trophy. I feel this is the crux of the matter that divides Arsenal fans – it is not whether we have the money or not (as we do have the money) but how this money is being utilised.

    Another unfortunately judgemental article by this website.

  • Koen

    You don`t actually choose to be a fan right? At least I didn`t. I live in Holland but the Arsenal magic has reached me anyways:D

  • Arsefactor

    Let me put it another way.
    If someone lived in Belgium but disagreed with the way it was run by the current Belgium government then you could call them ‘doubters’.
    Would you then feel it is fair to suggest that they shouldn’t live in belgium or even question whether they are *real* belgians?

  • gunner 71

    Arsefactor – I did not see your response before I wrote mine. I think you have put it more succintly than I did, thanks.

  • Guo Sheng

    @Arsefactor and gunner71

    Actually I’m not judging people and saying it’s the absolute truth. I’m offering my point of view of things with what I feel is a rational argument. I’m definitely not asking people not to have an opinion, and I’m not defining what a supporter is. I’m asking YOU to tell me what a supporter is, if you read the beginning paragraphs of the article.

    It was never my intention to slag anyone off, and much less tell people what to think, and if that came off as the crux of my article, I sincerely apologise for my lack of eloquence and poor writing.

    What I’d like to see though, is an argument as to why it’s good to be negative, and what good it can bring if we ourselves do not have the answers. Personally I won’t dare judge the manager or the team as I don’t believe I’m capable of doing better. It’s something left for better minds to debate, and I respect your opinions with regards to that, as I don’t believe I’m amongst such exalted company.

  • walter

    Funny you put it that way Arsefactor. About Belgium and sorry but I really didn’t bring it up and to mention intern politics from Belgium, but here is your answer.

    Well in fact people in Belgium who doubt the way the country currently is being runned are not called doubters. They are mostly called separatist or followers of the confederation between Flanders and Wallonia. Both of them actually want the country Belgium to split up in two now countries. And those people actually reached +40% of the voting results in the last elections in Belgium held on Sunday.

    In fact a lot of those people actually don’t want to live in Belgium but in a state called Flanders.

    And in fact a lot of those people actually detest the fact that they are named Belgians and would love to have their passports changed from Belgian to Flemish.

    And once again sorry for bringing politics in this blog.

  • walter

    Mmm, if we follow the Belgian path I think the doubters should form their own very succesfull footballclub. 😉

    Sorry Guo Sheng, I think we are messing up your article now with this politics.

  • Arsefactor

    Well unfortunately the very title of your article is suggestive and to my mind implies that you are criticizing the ‘doubters’ loyalty as supporters.

    However since this was not your intention I can offer a view as to why it is important to have doubters.
    Most fans (myself included) will be quite blind to viewpoints on their club that differ from their own.
    For example, someone might believe that it is perfectly acceptable for Wenger to continue to manage the club even if we fail to win any success for another 10 years.
    If there were no doubters and this was the only opinion allowed then i’m quite sure the club would not be best served.

    The point is that everyone has their cut off point where failure is no longer acceptable and for some that is sooner than others.
    It is the balance of these cut off points that provide some stability to a club and for every ‘doubter’ you can be sure there will be a ‘fanboy’ to balance it out.
    If we insist that doubters should not be supporters then I believe we destabilize the club as a whole.

    The thing that unites supporters is that they all want success for their club. If someone wants the club to fail for their own personal reasons or to prove a point then I believe you can call into question their loyalty as supporters.

  • Arsefactor

    ah Walter I knew I was making a mistake using Belgium as the example! Doh! 🙂

  • walter

    It can happen to the best Arsefactor…. Never use Belgium as an example because it is the most bizar (surrealist?) country in the world I think.
    Even I after been born there and living in it for some 48 years, I still can be amazed on many occasion.

  • stuart

    Ive supported them since 70/71.

  • stuart

    The reason I support Arsenal is because I went to a home game and that was that. I couldnt be swayed. It was Arsenal for life.
    But what Wenger has done is all his own doing. He built the super high expectations. Then moved to the Emirates changed his philosophy and lost his way. Theres no hate no dropping off of my love for Arsenal just a shift away from Wenger.

    Project youth is done and if he doesnt change gears this summer hes done. Fact. The thing is hes full of pride and it shows.
    But hes a great man and has been a great manager.

  • stuart

    I will still thank him for what hes done but hes past his sell buy date. No manager should have the power he has. Hes now the polymath.

  • stuart

    Wenger has some strange flaws. One is he doesnt trust the English players work ethic and life style.

    Thats why even now he will not do with wilshire what Everton did with Rooney. He should be playing now from the off and growing into the superstar he is . But mark my words Wenger wont do it.

    Le grove is a haven for AKB Scorners, but if you follow it like I do they all love Arsenal.

    Its my favourite site with this and Goonerholic and Arseblog from Dublin.

  • Hypern0vae

    Great article Mr. Lee – I echo your sentiments completely.

    Crikey – what a reaction from Rhys Jaggar though… Whilst I do understand where you’re coming from, personally I think you have to appreciate that, like it or not, all top clubs are run as businesses these days. As such Arsene’s (and the board’s) job is to make short and long term decisions based upon the best interests of the club, not (and here’s the controversial bit) necessarily the best interests of the fans. Of course these decisions need to be made without affecting the fans perception of what is ‘Arsenal’ (or, in business terms, our USP) – which ranges from the way the club communicates to the media, to our kit, crest and ultimately (from a fan’s perspective) our free-flowing attractive football and continued ‘success’ on the field. Of course the difficulty is that ‘success’ means different things to different people – some are happy to point to a decade of Champs League qualification, intermittent title challenges, and our enviable financial position, whilst to others our lack of silverware for 5 years is unforgiveable.

    My own personal opinion is that, as a fan since the ’89 victory at Anfield (when I was an impressionable 10 year old), I realise I’ve been fortunate enough to support the club though their most succesful period (and through the birth and growth of the Premier League). As such I suppose I’m more tolerant of the fact that football is fundamentally different to 20 years ago – the amount of money in the game means that failure can now result in ruin for clubs. I’m therefore not worried by a few lean years (after all, there’s no divine right to trophies) as I understand we’re trying to build a club that is self-sustainable for the future – something which seems to be unique amongst many of our competitors. However, I also realise that for many fans who’ve supported Arsenal for far longer than I, the ‘commercialisation’ that is slowly pricing them out of what they perceived to be ‘their’ game and club, is just too much to bear. In contrast, for many younger fans who were entranced during the early Wenger years, the nuances of a self sustaining business model are lost in the need for immediate and continued success at all costs – which is I guess a reflection of modern culture.

  • stuart

    Al AKB dislikers have as far as I can see only 3 major pet dislikes with Arsene.
    1 He pushed project youth to far when it was obviouse it was failing. 2 Not getting goalkeeping replacements when it was so onviouse we needed them 3 Thowing games that fans want to win IE FA cups and there you have it in a nutshell.

  • TheSKAGooner

    Rhys – I often am left wondering what, exactly, you DO like about Arsenal. You seem to hate that we have a foreign manager, hate that we have foreign players and hate that the Club have foreign supporters (on the ridiculous assumption that they can’t “understand” that football is part of the social fabric of England). What is it about Arsenal that you to like?

    Stuart – As Tony is fond of pointing out, adding “Fact” at the end of a statement does not actually make that statement a fact. It’s often the case that when reading “Fact” at the end of a statement, it indicates that the statement is nowhere near being a fact. Such is the case of your assertion that project youth is done and if AW doesn’t change gears this summer “he’s done”. That is not a fact. It’s not even within spitting distance of being a fact. What it is though, is your opinion. And that, my friend IS a fact. Now, it’s true that AW might very well hand over the reigns at the end of the coming season. He may do so for any number of reasons, and yes, perhaps even one of them might be that the young players simply have not progressed or have the potential to win either the League or CL. But until AW actually does leave, your assertion remains an opinion.

  • munaf

    Guo Sheng Lee; I am a devout Arsenal fan, and will be forever, but there is something unparalleled in the expectation of the globe’s festival of football. Though I would take an Arsenal title (maybe even a Carling Cup at this point) over an England World Cup final victory any day of the week, and many of the players that will don the white shirt are amongst my least favourite – John Terry is the benchmark to which all other footballing scumbags aspire in my mind, and we’ve all run out of adjectives for Cashley – I will be on tenterhooks for the duration of the national team’s involvement in South Africa, and take more than a passing interest in the fortunes of all thirty-one other teams, especially Holland, Spain and Argentina. But that’s the joy out of the way. The impending start of the World Cup leaves Arsenal fans with a major question to ask: where are the signings? As is dreadfully predictable with Arsenal, the summer is more about who is leaving than who is coming in. Cesc’s future is the most important bit of business to tie up between now and August, but the question of new arrivals is massive and, indeed, possibly has major implications for the captain’s career plans. Wenger talked of making moves in the transfer market at the end of the season and there is no doubt that Arsenal have had a far more prominent role in this summer’s rumour mill. Previous experience tells us that, while there is plenty of fantasy in stories linking Chelsea, United and Man City with players, the rule for Arsenal has been that there’s no smoke without fire. We should assume therefore that two likely additions to the squad would be Mark Schwarzer and Laurent Koscielny, with Joe Cole most probably a target to boot. Which would leave Arsenal where, exactly? Even if we were to bag Cole and the other two, to add to Chamakh, many Arsenal fans would be left disappointed. Wenger has made it clear that he wants to do his wheeler-dealing early, before the World Cup, while Fabregas has been rumoured to want a statement of intent from the club. These signings would not be that statement and would most likely leave Cesc (and quite possibly van Persie) and the fans extremely underwhelmed. It must be hoped that the boss is hard at work on deals that are so far slipping under the radar, most importantly on at least one, possibly two more defenders and arguably a tough, driving midfielder to bring out the competitive streak in Denilson and Diaby. The club has the money, the fans deserve the intent, now the board and the manager must deliver.

  • Hartwick89

    Rhys,

    Your mentality is not consistent with the new wave which the EPL has forsaken from its origination. The symbolism of loyalty as you portray came and went when Everton sold Rooney to ManIOU and then turn around and complain about not having resources to support a top 4 finish. You see your perception of loyalty or “English” honor has got to be consistent with reality. And, by the sounds of perception you can turn it on and off on a flick of a shilling.

    My point to you is there are supporters who are outside the UK. You need to accept them as you accept Arsenal supporters inside the UK. Mr. Lee has his story, I have mine, and you have yours. You need to allow for differences and come together with the one similarity the love and passion for Arsenal. We can disagree if it makes sense to. But, overall there is no commonsense with the current discontent with management and the board. Get over your nationalism Rhys it makes you sound polarizing and at points insane.

  • gunner 71

    No Guo Sheng – I think you and I make ourselves perfectly clear. You think I am negative for critisisng the club. You are wrong. Have you heard of social science or social engineering ? One of its basic logic is that you have to be critical to move things forward for the general good. That means when you feel things are not right you need to say why, and how this can be remedied. This does not make you negative. In fact you are the negative one for not realising there is an issue at Arsenal (and with the manager)that needs to be debated.

    An idiot talked about “better minds.” Just because someone is manager of Arsenal or someone has loads of money does not make them the fountain of knowledge. One of the reasons we have a democracy is the recognition that even a “lesser mind” may have a good contribution to make.

  • LRV

    Tony: I am not happy at all that you allow Rhys Nonsense to keep on attacking Walter in this way without a proper explanation as to why.

    Hartwick89: I quite like your response there; especially the last bit – “Get over your nationalism Rhys it makes you sound polarizing and at points insane.” However, I feel that ‘nationalism’ is quite too mild.

    Guo Sheng Lee: Make no apologies for your opinion and belief. Everyone needs to question why they what they do from time to time. If I ever find myself hating Arsenal in the guise of ‘doubting’ (not ever likely to happen), I’ll simply give up my support rather than constitute an anti-support.

  • Tim

    This argument, again?

    I’m actually more tired of this argument than I am of hearing Barcelona players talk about how much they would love to play with Cesc.

    It’s almost as if you’re trying to convince each other to change your minds. Do you really think that you can win this battle? Why would you want to waste your time arguing with someone like Gunner 71 who bloviates on “Democracy” and “social science” in order to support his simplistic moaning world view?

    Ignore people like him and Le Grove and they will go away.

    Now, if you don’t mind, there are interesting things going on in the football world that aren’t about what makes someone a good fan or a real fan or whatever.

  • walter

    LRV, It should have been him on who’s foot I stepped accidently at my last visit in the Emirates, I think. 😉 Maybe I didn’t apologised properly enough? But I did now, so I think it should be okay from now on.
    The one thing that I have developed as a ref is that I can take a lot and don’t take it personal.

  • Cosmojon

    I hate this scenario(happened last night)…
    Come home after a busy day at work. Put my feet up, fire up Fifa 10(Arsenal of course 😉 )…the missus asks, ‘Why do you love me’.
    I panic with the reply, ‘Let me finish this game first’.
    ..series of events..well, at least the dogs enjoyed my company downstairs last night!
    Why I support/love this club is as hard as answering my girlfriend last night. Its something I’ve definitely needed time to think about.
    I was a little kid, my mate supported Arsenal, I knew nothing about football, so I followed. Don’t think it was love at first sight though as I was young and more into martial arts at the time.
    Became obsessed with Bergkamp and Arsenal, think that is when I fell in love with the club. Everything started to fall into place. I understood and appreciated football better,due to my age and through playing. Highlight of my week was watching the team play.
    Now, despite no trophy for however many years, I still love the club.
    I can never imagine supporting another club, it would be just wrong. I know this sounds sad but, when I was younger and used to play PES master league with a custom team – I dreaded playing Arsenal, felt so bad if I ever won against them… I am such a geek…

  • geoge

    We should not say that”le grove” and their like are not true supporters ,they could well be ,its just that they are a bit stupid! That is why there is little point trying to make them understand .They simply cant

  • munaf

    Some people will bury their heads in the sand deeper day by day. Now, we have had people saying “Cesc hasn’t asked to leave”… i.e. it’s all paper talk! Unadulterated rubbish- why has he for the first time in years said “I want my future sorted out before the World Cup” some weeks ago? Why did have the conversation with Wenger before the WC? Why has his Father come out with statements that he wants to go now- do you think these statements weren’t sanctioned by his son? Can anybody be so stupid to suggest that he really wants to stay? He was always going to go eventually, but we all hoped we’d get at least one more season out of him. He wants to go now because he sees himself surrounded by average players and no likelihood of silverware with the current squad, tactics and lack of commitment and nous in the games that really matter. Anyone who saw his face after the defeats by United and Chelsea will know what he was thinking. We cannot hope to keep any player who really wants to go. Given Barcelona’s current suggested spending plans, we might keep him for another season. However,it’s more than likely that he’ll go before the end of next month for around £35-40m, which will be a disgraceful caving in by the Board and Wenger. Wenger said after the French game that Diaby was the key man for us next season- God help us all if we are to rely on that lazy, uncommitted, one good game in five, midfielde

  • geoge

    @munaf.point made i think

  • Guo Sheng

    @gunner71

    To be honest, the title of this article was not written by me – I submitted the title in bold just above my name. Tony may have misinterpreted my intent in this article, and perhaps it’s my fault for not being clear enough in my writing. I still thank him for this vehicle in which to post my thoughts, and will strive to prevent miscommunications.

    Regarding social engineering and democracy, I for one certainly do not believe that it is the best system and that it’s infallible, but it’s certainly proven that it has the least ills of the other systems. If you juxtapose the period in which Arsenal is experiencing, I suppose you could say the team does have it’s faults. Personally I’d like to see AW teach his team to defend, or study their opponents so we can win, but it’s tempered by the otherwise excellent entertainment throughout most of the season.

    I will admit that I am one of a lesser mind, and i’ll never have the footballing nous of an Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger, Jose Mourinho or Fabio Capello. As such, I believe my opinion is simply that – an opinion. I will not advocate it as the course of action by any means, as I do not wish to upset what is currently in place.

    Agreed, everything is not perfect. Nothing ever is, but is what we’re doing as supporters really productive? I mean, I’d like to see certain changes definitely, but I doubt that the board, manager and team are happy with not winning. However, what can they do except try harder?

    Maybe as supporters we could spam the Arsenal players with video analysis of our next opponents until they have no other choice but to view them. This would undoubtedly show that we care, and we are willing them on to win. Perhaps it’s less about changing an entire system but rather trying to tweak the little details within? Just like how you wouldn’t change democracy as a system but debate over policy issues within.

    It’s always useful to have a naysmith or a devil’s advocate to provide counter points to those in power, as they are then able to make further changes. That would be what I feel the club needs, but it really must come in a constructive form. After watching the AGM 2 seasons ago, it’s not surprising AW has become less tolerant of criticism, as the thought of having things screamed at you and insults thrown does not reek of constructive criticism. If change must be made from fan opinion, let us come together and find avenues to try to offer help that would hopefully be noticed by the club.

  • gunner 71

    Thank you Guo Sheng – at last someone at Untold Arsenal that listens. I now respect your views because you respect mine, and you are honest with it: even though we may not necessarily agree.

    As I said I have supported Arsenal for 40 years and some of it was through dire times, yet I was happy cheering the boys on the Highbury stands. So what makes this one different? It is diffeent because I believe we can change our team’s prospects without spending more than £40 million (on the right players identified by the manager) in this transfer window (if we keep Cesc). Do I believe this will happen ? no. I and many Arsenal fans I know believe that the situation we are in now is a combination of clever Mr. Wenger concentrating on his youth project, while still being able to make money for the shareholders. The team suffers as a result.

    This website has refused to see that Fabregas might have actually said he is leaving because the players around him are simply not good enough, and may be aware that the club are not ready to make the required changes to make us great again eg should we really be going for that unknown L’Orient defender or should it be Cheilleni ? even if he was the only defender bought I will be very happy.

    Guo Sheng, I was banned from this website for being critical of Wenger – the moderator told me that this is a pro-Wenger website to counter balance other anti Wenger sentiments, and I should carry my opinions elsewhere. My grouse is that we do not fight fire with fire by merely becoming spin doctors for the Arsenal heirarchy eg saying things are fine and the young boys will win this and that when clearly they are incapable.

    If other “Untold” writers can be as honest as you, then this can be the best forum for a proper debate which will improve our beloved club.

  • Andrew

    I’ve long thought about what is “supporting a team”. Fandom is almost always fickle and unjustified. I’m 23 and at five or six years of age, through mainly school friends, the lovable Ian Wright, club iconography and club locality, the movements of “Arsenal FC” had become personalised. Arsenal was and still is apart of my identity. Over the last maybe 6 years, things have changed, despite the warmth I feel for the club there is something that transcends it and perhaps legitimizes support. It is Wengerism. A progressive philosophy that sets the club apart from generality and most often changes it for the better.

  • Adam

    This article has got under my skin, why do you need to justify your choices, However thank-you Lee for letting us know why you choose the Arsenal. It is thanks to a certain Mr Wenger that the club has attracted more global support. for myself its more of a family thing, we just are supporters of the Arsenal, its where im from, my support or rather fanatical obssession is non negotiable. If some one had told me in the eighties that we would have a new stadium, continually top end of the league playing every year in europe, new training ground, youth academy status Id have packed them off to the funny farm. However Wenger cannot take all the credit for the direction of the club but ,for sure that is one man who has and will leave his mark on our club, team game on the feild, team game off it. we all have a vision about how the game should be played, Wenger has come close to how i see football being played although im more of a full court press(basketball term) advocate, The current squad does need to learn the collective pressing game.

  • sad

    @gunner 71 question is: When cesc is sold and we are in Championship will you still support Arsenal? If your asnwear is now you have and will never ever become a true arsenal fan.

  • KL Gooner

    Like Nick Hornsby’s character in Fever Pitch, I fell in love with Arsenal after attending my first home game. In my first season supporting Arsenal, we won the Double (’71, the first time around). Now, tell me if that doesn’t raise expectations for the coming seasons! In the next decade, we lost four finals (3 FA Cups, 1 Cup winners Cup) and won the FA Cup once. The next time we were to lift a trophy was in ’87 when we won the League Cup for the first time. In between we were most of the time mediocre and mid-table at best. Highlights then were the North London derbies and being Liverpool’s bogey team. God, we were easily pleased back then!

    The loss to Luton in the League Cup in ’88 was as painful as any of the disappointments that were to come but was more than made up for in ’89. Things looked bright as we won the league again in ’91 and then the Cup double in ’93. Then followed 4 barren seasons. Rioch’s appointment after GG’s sacking was uninspiring I thought but I still harboured hopes especially with the coming of DB10. We finished high enough to qualify for UEFA and I was a bit surprised when Rioch was sacked and AW appointed. Weren’t we making progress, I asked myself. And who the hell is Arsene Wenger? The internet was still in its early days, but I remember a few on-line discussions questioning the wisdom of appointing Wenger.

    We had three trophy-less seasons after AW’s first double and yes we had the doubters then too. Many were saying the double was a fluke, with AW inheriting arguably the best back four the league had ever seen. That was put to rest with a couple more Premier league titles and three FA Cups, which of course included the unbeaten season.

    Another 5 barren seasons since the ’05 FA Cup but heck, given the previous experience, I know we’ll win something again eventually, with or without Wenger. Regardless, I’ll still be there.

    As the say, in life there are two certainties – death and taxes. For me I’d add supporting Arsenal to that. Arsenal till I die.

  • walter

    Munaf, just pulling my head out of the sand and what I can remember from our games against MU and Chelsea this season is that we played our best match at OT and lost very unfortunate and with many thanks (sarcastic mode) to ref Dean. And you know what: no cesc in the team that day. And we outplayed them on the day. In the other games Cesc was on the field but we lost. Maybe we should sell him. 😉
    About the why questions no one can answer them except the people who came out with those statements. But no one has been present at the conversation between Wenger and Cesc and knows what has been said so your guess is as good as mine and some 10.000.000 other guesses.
    The reason you give for Cesc leaving is doing what I have told many of us do: pretending to be able to read other peoples mind. You say it is the reason you give. I could say that it is because he doesn’t want his leg chopped in pieces like he has seen so many players around him (and against Birmingham they managed to crack his leg a bit) and the lack of protection skilful players get from referees. Again this reason is just my opinion but I could pretend it is Cesc’s reason. But I don’t because I cannot read minds. But did you see him after the Hull game? Did you see his face and his expression? And he said ‘he had enough of it’ (or something in that style).

    The only thing we can be sure off is that we don’t know what the truth is.

    The father thing : he just wants his son to play for his own team he supports. Maybe natural thing and maybe his father also doesn’t want his son being kicked to pieces?

  • summitgunner

    well aw says he hopes to sign a defender before the wc ends.well thats different as he stated at the end of the season that he wanted his team rebuilding finished before the wc started. one defender how will that improve the defence which he identified 12 months too late was not good enough. i do not believe aw will address our weaknesses he hasnt for the past 5yrs why would he change now,he will continue with players he should sell but then again who would buy almunia,fabs,denilson,edwardo etc etc. we need a gk,we need 2 defenders and then there is an extreme doubt over the future of our capt.i said on here before if wenger wanted cesc to stay he should have been more ambitious in the tfr market because thats the only resaon cesc wants to go now he as seem we have not progressed and he obviously knows that situation wont change.cesc is different to henry he was 31 and wanted to win things cesc is 23 and as plenty of time to return to is homeland,no he is fed up with the gap between us and the big clubs. our cbs situation is a disgrace,silvestre s/be gone,gallas wont get what he wants,let him go and sol is 36 and of course there is djourou who is never fit. i have said before that i have been fed up with aw but if he finally recognised we need at least 3 new playes i would support him but this aint going to happen.

  • summitgunner

    @Walter – sorry to intercept your convo with Munaf but No one knows anything. Its not worth commenting or making an opinion of what we here reported (often accurate) or can see before our eyes on the pitch. Only the “Lord” Wenger knows whats going on. Walter, where you from North Korea? You sound brain washed! ED As Walter and others constantly repeat none of us are worthy to discuss or pass comment on anything. I suggest you close the site as soon as possible. Some posters use this smokescreen to detract from a real debate about our club.

  • walter

    Summit, I’m not saying that we cannot talk about it but we cannot talk in terms as ‘this is a fact”. That is what I mean. We can only guess. Note that I don’t put my thoughts down as a fact as some others do and that is the difference. I tell that it is a possibility but I never will say that it is a fact.