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Clattenburg leaves the PL and the PGMO has almost no refs left now

By Walter Broeckx

What was a rumour for a few days now is looking to be real: Mark Clattenburg is quitting his job as a Premier League official to become Saudi Arabia’s new head of referees. He will be the new man after Howard Webb has resigned from this function some 11 days ago. I didn’t even know that Webb was head of the referees over there to be honest. As he seemed to be involved in the PGMO up to a while ago. It looks as if the PGMO is more like a pigeonry then anything else. With referees flying from left to right, in and out on their way to whatever direction they go.

It might be that his last match in charge of a PL fixture was Arsenal – Hull. Still a review of him to go.

If we look back at his career he looked to be one of the few honest referees when he came in to the PL. There was a time we were lucky to have him as that would mean no real bias against us. This all changed when Clattenburg broke the instructions of the refs to go to an Ed Sheeran concert after a match. Instead of being banned he got rewarded. But it looked that he had to give up his honesty for a part. And his bias against Arsenal reached heights only seen by refs like Taylor, Dean and other Atkinsons.

And to reward him the PGMO lobbied to get him some big finals including the Euro 2016 final, the Champions League final and the FA Cup final last season.

His new post will involve working with Saudi referees to improve performance and professionalise the set-up, while he will also take charge of some league games.

The Premier League’s referee body, Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL) said he had been “a great asset” and “an inspiration to those who want to get into refereeing. We understand this is an exciting opportunity for Mark, and it further underlines the high esteem for English match officials throughout the world game.”

So buy Clattenburg I do think you had it in you to be a great ref but unfortunately you fell to the PGMO disease over time.

But what does this means for the PL and the PGMO? Well…. it means that we have one referee less. One of the referees who does a lot of matches even.

So instead of having the 24 referees they promised us when they started with professional referees we only have around half of them full time in the PL. 12 referees for 10 matches each weekend? And then European matches on top. And FA cup matches. And midweek matches….

As I said in an earlier article the PGMO managed to get only 7 full time referees to do more than  10 matches. And now one of them is leaving.

If it wouldn’t be so sad it would be funny. But Clattenburg leaving will mean that we will have Dean and Atkinson even more than before.

My big advice to anyone who thinks of taking up refereeing: don’t hesitate. By the shortage the PGMO has created I think you could do your first PL match somewhere by the end of April.

Seriously now, this just shows once again how utterly useless the PGMO are when it comes to delivering referees for the PL.

Not 24 refs as promised. Only 7 who do more than 10 matches after some 15 matches and some of the 17 who had done matches only with one or two matches. This is incredibly low. An all time low in fact. And then the PGMO poster boy leaves the PGMO in the mess they have created.

I can’t read minds but I wouldn’t be surprised if Clattenburg has had enough of what he had to do in the last years in order to get his finals. Based on what I have heard from people who know him in person he was obsessed with improving his game.

I can now tell that Clattenburg was one of the refs who has been reading the Untold Referee reviews in the past. I don’t know he still does now but I know for sure he did it when we started all those years ago. He even used our reviews to improve his game. Yes I know he compared his own matches with our reviews I have been told by a person I trust as I know that this person knows him in person as I got details of certain things I couldn’t and can’t repeat as that would give away the identity of that person and I promised not to do this.

But knowing what I know about him I think it must have hurt him over the last seasons that he had to go against his nature in order to get his finals. Now he had what he wanted… he walks away from the PGMO. Is it sticking out a finger to the PGMO and their chief Riley? And leaving the PGMO further in the shit they have created.

So Clattenburg goes to earn a lot of money probably and the PGMO… well they continue in their secret ways and are now at rock bottom on having enough referees to do matches in the PL. The PGMO now looks even more terrible than the way Italian football and refereeing was organised in the calciopoli years in Italy. Yet no newspaper or news channel is asking them where the 24 refs are they promised when they turned the refs professionals. Just Untold is asking this very important question.  If we continue like this each ref will have to do each time around 7 to 8 times in a season. That is an involvement of almost 25 points in a season…. this is beyond ridiculous. This is near to criminal. As criminal as Calciopoli was in Italy. How long will the rest of the media accept this and stay silent? Or are they in agreement with this? Well it wouldn’t surprise me if I look at the way they talk about referees….

 

 

66 comments to Clattenburg leaves the PL and the PGMO has almost no refs left now

  • Gord

    I too missed Webb being in Saudi.

    In reading about Clattenburg leaving, I thought I read that it was Collina that was pushing for Clattenburg to get the big games, and that it was some FA people that were trying to stop this. But, no references, so just hearsay.

  • Andy L

    I heard on the radio the other day that the referee ladder is supported by 18 further professional referees operating at Championship level . I can’t remember who said this , unfortunately , as I am not so sure that this is credible but presumably it would be a simple matter of promoting the best of those , or in particular the ones who are easily manipulated.

  • Mike T

    Walter
    As things stand PGMO employ 29 full time referees before Clattenburg resigned it was 30.There are now 17 in the Select group and from the start of this season PGMOL employ another 12 full time referees in what’s called select group 2 in addition they employ another 6 part time.
    In relation to Asstistans appointed by PGMOL there are 63 in total. 27 in the select group and another 36 in select group 2
    Where so many make the basic mistake is thinking that the PGMO is only about officials in the PL ,it’s not .

  • Norman14

    I just hope he didn’t take their bribe to keep his mouth shut.
    BOOK, BOOK, BOOK!

  • Norman14

    True to form, PGMOL put out a “statement”.
    No “Head on a stick” or “Voice of..”
    If it was Riley was Kim Jong-un, we’d be assuming he was dead.
    Hmmm

  • Chris

    Walter,

    I don’t knowe if this information is public, but I imagine the PGMO must have some sort of contract with the PL
    And in the contract there must be some clauses which specify number of referees, etc, etc, i mean some sort of terms and conditions that frame the ‘service’, ‘quality of service’ (yeah I know…no comment), frameset, etc. etc.

    Wonder if there is some point at which these guys would be liable to someone by not fullfilling their part of the deal ?

    The PL is in fact the clubs, is it not ? I do not understand why they do not start looking into it.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Mike T,
    the last time we did an analysis on how many matches they do we only found 7 or so who did more than 10 matches. And lots of them only doing 1 or 2 matches. For some reason they seem not to be trusted to do much matches and a very small select group get the majority of the matches. Now it might be that this has changed since then (I think after some 15 matches we counted them) but I don’t know.

    If I can take doing one match with a top division in Belgium as being a top referee…. well I am one. I have never considered it that I was one (and never claimed I was btw) for that one match. I just have done matches with teams involved from all the local and national divisions in Belgium included a Jupiler team league. But by the way the PGMO presents their numbers I would have been counted a few years ago as one of the boys. 🙂 Mmmm come to think of it… maybe I should claim to have been one of the boys…. (you should hear me laughing now…. )NOT!

  • Menace

    Clatternburg – off to Saudi! He left after booking Alexis & Theo for being fouled & after playing advantage didn’t go back to book the Hull player trying to make uncouth advances on the Ox. Theo did throw the ball toward the corner but it seems ball throwing is more serious than stepping on the feet of an opponent or kicking the opponent when he is down.

    Riley old chap you have trained this boy to make his Mark. Lets hope he retains his limbs because Saudi has some strange customs.

  • bjtgooner

    Damn good riddance!! A pity Riley, Dean, Atkinson, Taylor etc were not going with him!!

    But, it is one additional ex ref outside the clutches of the PGMO – was he offered & did he take the separation (silencing) payment?

  • Menace

    Walter – I was watching the Ludogrets game on TV & the referee sent off a player (2nd Yellow) for kicking the ball away in the last minutes of injury time. Where is this game going with stupid cards for cosmetic fouls & nothing for body injury tackles? Have the officiating controllers lost their marbles?

    I really feel cheated of sport when I see such pathetic cards.

  • Leon

    This looks to be a pretty good move for Clattenburg who’s been in conflict with PGMO, The FA, Mourinho & his wife in recent times, and being relatively young should have a lucrative few years ahead of him.
    I doubt that he has much to reveal about the inner workings of Rileyland TBH.
    Best of luck Mark.

  • Samuel Akinsola Adebosin

    Hmmn. Referee goes referee comes, but the Pgmol remains. But since Mr Mark Clattenburg has taken a U turn from being the fair referee he was known for to join the anti-Arsenal referees brigade who have ever since been deliberately causing Arsenal to lose points in their Premier League campaigns, we of the Arsenal supporters will nor miss the absence of Mr Mark Clattenburg. But we will thank God for his departure which will Lessing one problem out the many Arsenal are having with the Pgmol officials.

    The media people have in the press conference Le Prof had with them today asked him questions on his managerial job continuity at Arsenal. And as he was being pressurised to answer their questions, he unwillingly revealed some personal matters that concerned him to them. Which ordinarily he wouldn’t have revealed.

    Let me make this true revelation clear and known to the media, the football pundits as well the anti- Wenger brigade that, the pressure they’ve subjected Le Prof to after Arsenal Ucl match lose away to Bayern Munich last Wednesday night will dissipate into the air and disappeared and will not be heard of again this season. Because Arsenal will beat Sutton Utd, Liverpool, knockout Bayern Munich and also beat Leicester City in a four game winning run to ease off any pressure being subjected on Le Prof to leave Arsenal sooner than he has planned to leave but will take the 2-3 year contract extension offer on the table at Arsenal offered to him and he’ll sign it around the months of March – April this year to remain at Arsenal.

  • Mike T

    Walter at this point in time there have been 250 games in the PL season
    Two refs have done 21 games each
    Two have done 19
    Four have done 18
    One has done 16
    Two have done 15
    Two have done 14
    The other 18 games are spread between 4 referees who have officiated 7,6,6 and 5 games. Three of these refs are the newest refs to be appointed to the elite list ( Tierney Attwell in 2016 & Scott in 2015) so it’s fully understandable as to why they have not as yet been appointed to as many games the other is Roger East and I guess he is probably struggling to remain on the elite panel

  • Norman14

    Being a bit lazy here, but have we had any of Tierney Attwell or Scott this season.

    Make Sian Massey-Ellis up – she’s the best PGMOL official by far.

  • dan

    Chaps, has anyone come across this
    https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=Lu2_U-r1–Q

    Is this correct?

  • Only a complete nutter would want to become a ref ……. explains a lot i suppose

  • Freddy Uzambiana

    doing nothing to help wenger now – just silly articles about ref going to SA. we will not forget

  • Freddy Uzambiana

    we will beat sutton

  • Ando

    Freddie Uzambiana 5.45
    Harsh man – harsh
    5.47
    COYG!

  • para

    I keep wondering why there are no referee leagues, like the UK football leagues.

    This would allow the refs to gain PL based on performance, just like the teams, refs go up and down.

    Of course this would mean having enough refs, and those who reach Pl, the top 3-4 go to Europe like the teams.

  • finsbury

    Clettenburg another one who is following in the footsteps of Don Revie.
    The very same Don in regards to whom the RICO enterprise admiring Henry Winter failed to revise. I guess that makes AFCs earnest critic some kind of failure?

    Given the admiration of these great souls for their Don I think I am beginning to understand and indeed appreciate why the greatest football manager in English football (that would be the blessed Clough) had to hit the bottle!

  • Andrew Crawshaw

    @Norman14

    No we haven’t yet had any of Anthony Taylor, Stuart Attwell, Paul Tierney or Graham Scott.

    I suspect that Anthony Taylor will be on hand a number of times between now and the end of the season, probably starting with Liverpool. When we start playing well again and are winning games we may well see one or more of the other three but I can’t see that happening in the next few weeks.

    As you know I’m a massive fan of Sian Massey-Ellis and would welcome her being promoted to full refereeing duties.

    My great friend who has been a Fulham fan since he was knee high to a grasshopper regularly tells me that the refereeing at Championship level is far worse than in the PL so we shouldn’t expect newly promoted referees to be any improvement on what we currently have.

  • Pat

    According to the Telegraph, David Elleray, who is referees’ chairman at the FA, did not want Clattenburg to referee the 2014 Super cup final and Collina insisted. The FA denies that Elleray did not want Clattenburg allocated.

    To me this is interesting. I did not even know there was someone responsible for refs at the FA or that it is David Elleray. Has this got any significance for the dire situation of refs in the premier league?

    I still feel it is interesting that Clattenburg has suddenly left in the middle of the season. And I feel if he wrote an honest book it would be very revealing. But I fear he will not dare to.

  • Pat

    Great article, by the way, Walter. I had a good laugh in places.

  • Gord

    Pat.

    Also interesting, is that David Elleray is from Kent, I believe.

  • Jammy J

    Mike T – I those 4 referees who have been in charge of only 7 games are less aren’t apparently ready to officiate any more games (in your opinion), then they shouldn’t be allowed to officiate any games at all. Period. Either you’re ready to do the job that you’ve trained years and years to do, or you aren’t. The logic that they are only capable of officiating only up to 7 games is extremely flawed.

  • Jammy J

    *If those

  • Jammy J

    Also, did any see the news that apparently 5000 Chileans are marching to protest against Sanchez playing for Arsenal, because they don’t like the fact that he is supposedly carrying the whole team? Sort of like what he does for Chile? I donno. Just seems extremely suspect to me and I can’t quite believe it.

  • Andrew Crawshaw

    The last time I did an analysis of the individual numbers from our comprehensive referee reviews there was no significant difference in the performance of any of the referees in the select group. The average is that they all got two big decisions wrong in every game and something like 1.5 correct per game. The best average 1 wrong decision per game and the worst 3. In any individual week there is normally between 1 and 3 referees who make no major wrong calls and one or two who get 4 or more decisions wrong. I think from memory the highest number this year has been 8.

    It is far more worrying that some teams have already had 4 or 5 visits from an individual referee. This simply isn’t healthy and I fail to see how any referee can completely forget how a player has behaved in previous games when they are seeing them every 4 or 5 games.

    The PGMO is completely unfit for purpose and like FIFA and the FA should be wound up for the benefit of the game.

    I would rather us revert to having a much larger group of referees to cover both the PL, Championship and the Football league, say 120 in total to cover both referee and fourth official duties and then a random allocation to games across the leagues, if you referee one week then you act as fourth official the next. With those numbers you would be unlikely to see any referee more than once a season.

    I don’t buy the notion that you need more elite refereeing in the PL than in the lower echelons of the football league. All should be to a similar standard of accuracy. Who knows if the right kinds of skills are encouraged through a proper application of the rules maybe the overall standards of play in the country might improve and eventually we might have national teams that are better than jokes.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Mike T,
    so that is 13 refs who do lots of matches.
    4 other refs makes 17.

    When refs turned professional they promised that there would be 24 refs at the top level an 48 assistants.

    24 promised and at best 13 full times and trusted and if you really want to count them all 17.

    That is still 7 refs missing if I can still count correct. And now 8 refs missing with Clattenburg gone.

    13 “full time refs” and 4 part time refs. The ideal scenario if you want to produce a Calciopoli scenario….
    Any ref will agree that doing a team more than twice in a season is difficult and can cause trouble when you do them more.

    In other articles we have shown that some teams have done 4-5 matches already in a season with the same refs. This is very unhealty as this ref (if he had a bias in favour or against) can make a difference of 12-15 points in the final league table. And this was calculated after some 20 matches with still 18 to go.
    So at the end we might see a team getting the same ref around 8-10 times in a season. That is a possible drop or raise of 24-30 points. If you think one person can be allowed to have so much influence on one team…. this is truly bad. And should never be allowed to happen. Yet it is happening in the PL.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Andrew beat me to it 😉

  • Mandy Dodd

    Time for a few foreign refs……not steeped in the north south divide,
    Refs ….not the sort who come from Manchester yet referee Utd games,
    Let’s be rid of refs who claim to support tramnere , yet actually support Liverpool, hate Arsenal, yet for some strange reason, have Tottenham sympathies.
    Let’s see refs doing Chelsea games that don’t have suspicious records in favour of this team.

  • ossasa

    Let’s see Arsenal win the PL again.

  • Menace

    Mandy – isn’t it strange that we have players from all over the world & despite the EU none of the EPL referees are from the neighbouring continental EU countries. Stinks of corruption & closed shop.

  • Jerry

    @Walter,
    Excellent article! I am actually disappointed in Clattenburg leaving, because he was one of the few refs we actually had a chance to get a proper penalty called with.

    @mikeT,
    You might have missed the article series over the summer that I, Tony, Andrew, and Walter wrote in regards to the number of full time PL referees compared to other top European leagues. The referee match distribution of the PL was significantly different than Spain, Italy, and Germany! Here is a link to my part of that series if you want to take a look:

    http://untold-arsenal.com/archives/53174

    For example, you listed 13 refs who have done >14 matches spread out between 14-21 matches each.

    In Spain, there have been 218 matches, but they 20 Referees who have done between 9 and 13 matches, with 13 being the highest number. Much more even distribution than the PL.

    In Italy, during their 241 matches, they have had 22 refs do between 8-12 matches (12 highest). Italy even had 8 referees do between 1-2 matches.

  • Mike T

    Walter

    The PGMO is not exclusive to the PL. They have more full time referees than they initaly committed to having.
    I get it that that you don’t like the PGMO model but it’s odd from such a small pool of refs we have more on the with the UEFA/FIFA list than most if not all of the other supposed top leagues.
    Jerry
    I did read you article when first published and yes the numbers are interesting but in terms of competence or performancie they don’t prove anything nor indeed,more crucially do they back up any claims of corruption all they do is show that the pool of refs is greater elsewhere .
    I am far from an advocate of PGMOL but it’s internal structure, support mechanisms are far more advanced than those employed in other leagues.The fact that all the referees in the two elite groups receive a basic salary to be full time as opposed to all other top leagues where they just get paid on a match to match basis, enables then to be truly full time .
    For me the issues are more about individuals not structure .

  • Mike T,

    Good post.
    Certainly you would hope that the structures and mechanisms work. That they are paid full-time by the PGMOL means that the pipers play the tune.

    An independent source of salary perhaps?

  • Robido

    It may be that there are very few people capable of refereeing in the premiership that are actually willing to do so for the rewards being offered compared with the vilification they routinely receive from all quarters.

    They are human and even with the best will will be inconsistent. The fewer there are they less inconsistency there should be and whilst more open to corruption if we had the same ref each week who we felt was fair and accurate I’d be happy.

    We may disagree with handball (which imho they are applying consistently to their interpretation) and fouls (which they are not) we can then focus on whether our players should take more responsibility for their actions or lack of. We know the puppeteers (TV,FA) prefer action packed full contact with winning penalties being eulagised and controversy encouraged but there are times we don’t help ourselves.

    The Bellerin Alonso incident could have been avoided had Theo not made a bad decision, I would suggest Alonso didn’t need a stiff elbow to score. Walter, you mentioned a meeting refs coming up when such situations would be discussed and wondered if this was raised. With the current focus on head injuries surely such gratuitous violence cannot be excused even though it so thrills the Nevilles of this world.

  • Norman14

    Leon
    If Oliver goes as well, then PGMOL will be able to progress it’s cause unimpeded.

    I suspect that if the MLS is recruiting, then a lot of our better Assistants will go as well.

    My draft letter to Damian Collins is getting longer by the hour 😉

  • finsbury

    Poor effort Robido,

    Unless your asking football fans to believe that no referee from the south east of the uk the region that produces the most players, most refs, most clubs, and has the most people in he he uk by a significant margin have been incapable of producing between them just one ref good enough to meet the PGMOBs criteria this past decade.

    Surely no one would ask or imply that the vast majority of football fans in here uk who do not respect the PGMOB or the FA are so dumb that we can’t read a map? Unless, that is, they are not so smart themselves?

    🙂

  • finsbury

    To conclude: if the officials job is so hard then why is football three decades behind contemporary sports in providing said aid?

    It’s a simple question.

    And as can be observed in the weak and useless efforts above there is not one rational or reasonable explanation that can be contrstructed in order to attempt to even explain this absurdity. Not one!

  • Menace

    Robido – ‘ I would suggest Alonso didn’t need a stiff elbow to score’. That is bollocks if ever written. If he didn’t need it there is more reason to red card the evil bastard.

    He almost decapitated Hector. It was reckless to a fault. Walter is diplomatic when he says it was reckless. The man took a run towards the area where the ball was coming down & without a second thought for the wellbeing of his opponent raised his arm with his elbow pointed at Hectors neck & went in. It was vicious & totally uncalled for. Knowing that he contacted Hectors neck below the jaw, he didn’t stop to check but went off celebrating a goal.

    The FA & all their geriatric buffoons did nothing subsequently. If any of them had been hit with half the force they would be in a coffin.

    ‘suggest’ you dim unseeing idiot.

  • Menace

    Just so you know – Hector was unconscious before Alonso headed the ball.

  • Norman14

    Menace:

    He was too, you can tell from the eyes.
    Unfortunately, we sometimes have to deal with morons who have no knowledge of the laws of football, any more than they do of human anatomy.

  • Jerry

    @miket,

    If you read the article, it said that article was not claiming any corruption, but for the improvement of the league, PGMO should hire more full time officials with an equal distribution of matches similar to other top leagues. There is no point in claiming to have 2 Select Group officials (1 for PL and #2 for the Championship) if many are not being promoted or in some cases even used enough.

    In my opinion, the difference in structure and utilization of refs compared to other top leagues needs to be questioned because it only benefits a select few. The full time contacts provide a base salary, but they also get paid per match as well similar to other leagues so you are wrong in that regard. The current structure is a waste of resources, because the officials who do more games, get more money because of their match fee, but also more likely to make errors due to being overworked compared to other leagues.

    The refs doing only few matches, get the base salary due to the full time contract, but earn significantly less than their counterparts. I believe an article I read last year said the match fee was around 1500, so you can do the math comparing 33 matches to 6-10 matches for some.

    PGMO/FA is wasting money giving full time contacts to officials they are not using.

  • Robido

    Menace
    I am say that what Alonso did was gratuitous and unnecessary violence. So many commentators said the raised elbow was “natural”. I suggest not. I call it gratuitous violence.

    Which bit do you disagree with so vehemently to resort to insult?

  • Robido

    Finsbury
    You make a good point.
    I agree that there should be no reason that the elite should be so restricted. It reeks of jobs for the boys who will follow the puppeteers requirements.

    I would not discriminate against refs from any part of the country or world for that matter But would say their status and pay should be much more than it is now.

    The reluctance to use the technology other sports have embraced is not just here. La liga apparently will not do goal line technology.

  • Menace

    Robido – read my comment. ‘suggest’ is making a statement. It is suggestion that I take umbrage against. Your last paragraph was unacceptable to my view of Alonso’s approach. He would not have scored if he hadn’t taken out the defender. The official & the protagonist would have been beheaded in Saudi had Bellerin not been fit enough to survive the blow.

  • Norman14

    Just in case there was a danger of lower league referees getting promoted, the FA have apparently told up and comers that if they want to get on, don’t grow a beard.

    Fascism alive and well in the UK government, and now in sport.

  • Mike T

    Jerry

    My point about corruption is that many of the posters on here thrive on anything that remotely puts into question the basic integrity of the referees and your article would have done nothing other than to full that view.
    Everything I have read suggests that referees in the other main Eureopean leagues don’t receive a basic salary. The match fees received on top of that salary in England is small by comparison to leagues elsewhere meaning that referees in say Spain who get around €6000 a match aren’t full time or put another way professional.
    Interestingly The Spanish elite list this year appears to be made up of 20 referees. At this point ( including domestic cup games)
    1 has done 21
    2 have 20
    1 has done 19
    2 have 18
    1 has had 16
    3 have had 15
    3 have had 14
    6 have had 13
    1 has had 12

    Based on the fact that the majority have had to work elsewhere to earn is that a better model?

  • Jerry

    @MikeT,
    In regards to salary, only Spain’s match fee is that extreme:

    http://www.totalsportek.com/money/english-premier-league-referee-salaries/

    When I was talking about the match fees above, I was talking about the difference in the PL refs. For example, Dean did 33 matches which is 38610 in match fees, where Kevin Friend did only 18-20 matches, a difference of £13-15,000 for the year

  • Mike T

    Jerry

    If your going to quote match fees received you need to factor in the number of times these individuals were appointed as 4th officials for they to are paid a sizeable fee. I haven’t got the latest % but if the FA cup is anything to go by a 4th official gets 80% of the fee

  • Jerry

    @mike t,

    The link I posted has approximate salaries for the refs, which I believe includes as 4th official, Atkinson up to 120,000 with Taylor at 12th getting around 65000.

    A big discrepancy in salaries. I’ll continue our conversation in more recent articles if you want to continue this discussion.

  • Mike T

    Jerry
    The article is all over the place as the£65 k is reported as now being basic retainer.

  • Jerry

    @MikeT,
    Not sure what your problem is with the basic retainer fee around £65K. Another article by the Daily Mail, also says the same thing now that a basic retainer fee is around £65K.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2909239/Top-Premier-League-referees-earn-FIVE-TIMES-Football-League-officials.html

    The total sportek link was trying to list approximate yearly incomes with the 65K + match fees. Obviously the elite panel and more experienced refs will make more more (i.e. Atkinson and Clattenburg (formerly) are in elite panel so able to get €4800-5400 for Champions League matches. Even more for Euros and World Cups.

    And you are steering the conversation away from the original point which was that the matches are not distributed evenly among the refs similar to other leagues. If you can think of a legitimate reason why PL refs should have such a large discrepancy in the number of matches they officiate compared to other leagues, I would like to hear it.

    For example, in one of your original posts, you listed 13 officials who did between 14 and 21 matches. I countered with Spain (20 refs) and Italy (22 refs) having only a match distribution of only 4 matches (9-13 and 8-12 matches respectively).

    And the point about the Spanish refs doing also doing domestic cups, etc is pointless because the PL Select Group officials also do the equivalent English domestic cups. I only compared league games for each of the ref leagues so you can compare them equally (apples to apples, not apples to apples AND oranges like you are doing adding the domestic cup games only for the Spanish officials but not for the PL refs).

    To keep on track- the debate is about the variance in match distribution in the PL compared to other top European League refs (i.e. Primera Division, Serie A, Bundesliga)

  • Mike T

    Jerry

    It’s a bit like asking why certain squad members at a PL club get more games than others. It’s simply down to ability and experience.

    Like it or not the likes of Dean and Clattenburg receive far higher ratings from the internal assessor and indeed in terms of game mamangement so the PGMOL model is that the higher profile and highest number of games are handed to the more experienced referees

    There are clearly two distinct operating models being used no where other than individuals offering up opinions do I see hard facts as to one being more robust or indeed better than the other but the fact that the referees in the EPL are full time professionals means that they are able to dedicate all their energies to refereering, developing and indeed recovering would suggest that The top rated officials are able to undertake more games that seems sound but alas the consequence is that those lower rated referees miss out
    The irony of all this is that the PGMOL model is held up as an example of best practise, and yes I found that hard to take in,

    Last point regarding the £65 k you and indeed the article suggested that the sum was all that Taylor Would earn when of course that mean he wouldn’t have involvement in any game whatsoever.

  • Mike T

    Jerry

    As you mention the Spanish model worth reading this article

    http://www.football-espana.net/62769/refereeing-pain-spain-still-dominates

  • ob1977

    I think Clattenberg was a good ref, and wanted to be a good ref, but realised he had to sell his soul to the PGMO devil to get where he has wanted to be, he now realised that instead he can break away from them and have a far more lucrative career…

  • Mike T

    So now we know that he isn’t leaving till the summer so will still ref games between now and May in England . Is that the actions of someone that can’t wait to get away?
    Or is the reason he is leaving the fact he will earn £500k a year tax free?

  • Jerry

    @MikeT,
    Interesting article, but that article was primarily questioning 2 bad calls in the Barcelona-Athletic Madrid Copa Del Rey match.

    That is actually a positive, because at least they are able to have public discussions/articles about a ref error. You hardly ever see similar articles in England questioning the ref decisions and both sides were left aggrieved with the decisions which would lean toward human error more than any type of bias.

    The ref for that match, Jesus Gil Manzano, is actually one of the more worked refs in Spain (23 in all competitions, league, cups, world cup quals for 2016-17). In fact he was the ref, just 2 days before in a La Liga match, so fatigue may have had something to do with his errors. Overworked refs are more prone to make errors, distributing the matches more evenly helps reduce that.

    Manzano is making errors after 22 matches (everything), now compare with some of the PL refs Taylor (31), Oliver (30), Atkinson (28), Marriner (28), Clattenburg (27), Dean (23), etc.. it’s easy to see a possible cause for the high amount of errors

  • Jerry

    @Mike T,
    The reason is most likely financial for Clattenburg to leave, but you also can’t put a price on peace of mind. No one knows for sure, except for Clattenburg, but wish him the best since I thought he was one of the better referees.

  • Jerry

    Also, my reply about your article in regards to the Spanish referee link is awaiting moderation.

  • Mike T

    Jerry

    He was one of our better referees. But let’s not forget he was suspended for what was it 8 months and in effect was sacked but re instated on appeal
    As for the point about fatigue that’s a very valid point.That fatigue comes of course from numbers of matches officiated in but also lack of recovery time and of course the distance traveled to and from games.Theres all sorts of factors and when you think that Sunderland to Bournemouth, which I suspect is the greatest distance between clubs is still less than Madrid to Barcelona and when you consider they have to travel to Gran Canaria which from some La Liga grounds is about 6 times the distance and yes I know that’s not where the refs are based but it does indicate the greater distances the refs travel

  • John L.

    1 wish a few more refs would p… off to Saudi

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