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Arsenal beat Tottenham in U23s; Klopp v Rodgers, today’s teams and hiding behind the sofa or crowing with delight.

By Bulldog Drummond

As so, our little series of no less than six articles about the Liverpool Arsenal game comes to an end with our inevitably wrong team sheet and list of players larking around on the beach.

But first, the under 23s game: Yaya Sanogo and Reiss Nelson scored as we beat the Tinies 2-0.  The team was

Martinez

Jenkinson  Shefa    Debuchy  Bramall

McGuane  Dragonmir Nelson  

Malen Sanogo Willock

On to today.   In the build up we have noted that Liverpool! are the great contradictionaries (there is no such word, but don’t worry about it) only arranging two wins in 12 games in all competitions in 2017 while remaining unbeaten in all 12 league matches this season against opponents currently in the top half of the table (W7, D5).

So, as you would expect they are top of the “top six” league and we are bottom.  But they have not gone two games in a row without letting in a goal since… wait for it, December 2014.

And here is something I only just found out.   The Jolly Jurgen has exactly the same record as Liverpool manager after 56 league games as Brendan Rodgers: 27 wins, 16 draws and 13 defeats.  There were quite a few AAAs of both variety (anti-fans and negative journalists) who thought Arsenal would improve with a Kloppian input.  I wonder if they still think that.

We have lost four of the last ten PL games and only won one of the last five away matches in the league, and only had one game without conceding in the last eight.  Not so good.

But there is always a cloud in the silver lining (or should that be the other way around).  Alexis has been involved in 25 league goals this season (17 goals, 8 assists), four more than any other player.

Worse still Liverpool! are one of only a handful of teams who have done better against us than we have against them.  We have won 78 against them, they have won 84 against us across all history since the Bronze Age.    But in the last six it is one win for them, three draws, and two wins for us.

As for the team, the questions are…

Having given Danny a run out in the previous u-23 game, will we finally see him start?  Laurent Koscielny has recovered, but has he recovered enough or will he be saved for Bayern Munich? Aaron Ramsey is also back but will he play in this, or the Bayern game, or get a game against Lincoln?   Mesut Ozil went home sick in the week, but could be better for today, or again might be saved for Bayern?

Liverpool meanwhile are celebrating record breaking accounts – they lost £19.8m last year.   Actually the record breaking bit is the revenue of over £300m.  That is just £50,000,000 behind Arsenal.  We made a profit of £2m.

Even Jamie Carragher has given up trying to make excuses for Liverpool saying that he thought Everton could finish above them in the league.  The issue of Everton/Liverpool of course is not so long running as Tottenham/Arsenal.  While the Tinies last finished above us during the era of Cro-Magnon man, Everton did it over Liverpool in 2012/13.  Which in terms of Merseyside is, now I think of it, actually Cro-Magnon.

But our record against the recently constituted “Big Six” is poor, and this is the biggest worry.  However just as we hope all positive runs will continue for ever, so all negative runs can come to an end sometime.  They always do.

On such matters Mr Wenger said, “We lost at Everton and Manchester City after being 1-0 up and it was because we were not proactive after we went ahead – we were too passive.  After that, we lost at Chelsea under special circumstances a little bit but I agree that we didn’t look like we played with enough freedom or the belief that we would just turn up and do it.

“That is what we want to add to our game. What is most important for me now is the attitude to just go for it – to go and take. What is linked many times with belief is a passive mode and not enough proactivity. You have to make things happen. It is always a mindset. How do I bring it out in the players? By making them conscious of it.”

He has also stressed the need for defensive solidity while players are still expressing themselves with confidence.  As everyone involved in the arts knows only too well, confidence is everything.  Without it you retreat into the tried and tested.  With confidence you push forwards into the new world.

Mr Wenger also said, “Özil has suffered a lot from the loss of Cazorla.  Cazorla can get out of pressure in deep midfield; he gets the ball played through to a player who is higher up and then Özil, with the ball at the right moment, can always do damage. But I don’t want to make this a debate about one player. It’s not Özil alone who will win us the game.”

Cech

Bellerin Mustafi Koscielny Monreal

The Ox Coquelin Xhaka

Welbeck Alexis Ozil

OK, that is a bit of a gamble, it could be

Cech

Bellerin Mustafi Gabriel Monreal

Coquelin Iwobi Xhaka

Welbeck Alexis Theo

Or any combination thereof.   And this means the beach is even more uncertain, but it could contain some of the following people, none of whom will be forced to enter the polluted waters of the River Mersey.

Try this, and then laugh at me for getting it wrong.  A selection from…

Ospina, Mertesacker, Gabriel*, Holding, Gibbs, Ramsey, Maitland-Niles, Iwobi*, Reine-Adélaïde, Walcott*, Pérez, Giroud

*Could start as opposed to being beached.

Confusing isn’t it?  That’s the problem.  We just don’t have enough players injured.

As for the follow up, Walter has important family commitments (in Belgium), and Tony has important dancing commitments (in Radcliffe on Trent), so neither will be providing the after-match summary.  Sorry about that.  We will be back tomorrow however, either crowing with delight, or hiding behind the sofa.

Liverpool v Arsenal the full story.

171 comments to Arsenal beat Tottenham in U23s; Klopp v Rodgers, today’s teams and hiding behind the sofa or crowing with delight.

  • Andrew Crawshaw

    Bulldog,

    The U18s also played Spurs this morning at Colney. It ended in a goalless draw. No details whatsoever on the Arsenal Twitter account, I’ll have to wait for Jeorge Bird for further information. We therefore finished in second place in the Southern group on 41 points, well behind Chelsea on 52.. I’ll do an update article later in the week.

  • JimB

    U18’s v Spurs wasn’t goalless.

    Spurs won 2-1.

  • Andrew Crawshaw

    The 0-0 was posted on the Arsenal.com website. If you have any further details please post them.

  • JimB

    Tottenham twitter.

  • SamuelAkinsolaAdebosin

    The Gunners are not a doubt but an assurance to beat the scousers to the collection of all the 3 points at stake this evening at Anfield if the good fortunes set for us correctly in the match. And I think and believe the good fortunes in this match will correctly set for Arsenal to collect all points and they’ll collect them to ease the pressure on them not to fallout from the title race but to remain it as Chelsea are not guaranteed the PL title until they are guaranteed.

    While I was watching the Leicester vs Hull game, I switched to the Elbar vs Real Madrid match out of curiosity to see if RM are faltering again or not but they weren’t as I watched them scored all the 3 goals they got by the time I switched back to the Leicester game. But I was surprised to see part of the Bernabeu’s field looking bad as if it has previously been waterlogged.

  • para

    Thinking it will be a fight, for both teams and a draw seems likely, but of course something inside me wants Arsenal to win it good, score plenty goals for the “feel good feeling”.

  • para

    Surprise team eh?

  • ARSENAL 13

    Hahahahahahahaha…

    Gooner world meltdown happening as we speak….

    Hahahahahahahaha

  • para

    Team makes sense if one wants to win at Bayern. 🙂

  • Gord

    From the twit thing.

    XI: Cech, Bellerin, Mustafi, Koscielny, Monreal, Coquelin, Xhaka, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Iwobi, Welbeck, Giroud

    Beach: Ooooooospina, Gibbs, Gabriel, Ramsey, Walcott, Alexis, Lucas

  • Gord

    Bummer, I was hoping for a Hull win.

    And true to predictions, Mesut isn’t well enough. Get well soon!

    Okay Giroud, how about a first half hat trick?

    COYG!

  • ARSENAL 13

    Are we playing 2 strikers??

    Come.on Gunners….

  • Polo

    Big call on benching Alexis, let hope it’s not confirmation that he’s leaving after this season but a tactical change.
    Mane vs Monreal please not let it be a repeat from the first match. I’m praying the team can get the win otherwise the relentless attack on AW will go through the roof from the media and WOBs.

  • Damilare

    Looking forward to an interesting match. I’m sure Liverpool must have spent a good part of their preps on how to stop Alexis and Ozil. Let’s hope this element of surprise disorientate them, Arsenal capitalizing on it and get 3 points.

    COYG

  • David seimann

    Clear foul in build up. Ref allowed it and media doesn’t mention it. Surprised?

  • David seimann

    This is 12 V 11 due to the ref. He’s been bought. Might go to the pub cos I can see what’s going on here LOL

  • ARSENAL 13

    Nice run Ox…More of it…

    Come on Gunners

  • David seimann

    It seems the media plan to destabilise the arsenal team by talking about Sanchez leaving has worked. The media loves Liverpool and hates arsenal.

    Never forget this

  • David seimann

    Coquelin and Xhaka midfield could be world class.. if referees allow it. Big if

  • Menace

    Amazing the pundit wanted the offside player to be called onside with a passion. So glad the PGMOL rep behaved honestly for a change.

  • ARSENAL 13

    Giroud has pulled up something…

  • David seimann

    Iwobi looking V threatening. Media hasn’t mentioned him yet

  • David seimann

    Foul for the goal. Foul on Giroud that goes unpunished. Arsenal dominating but how do we compete against this lads?

  • David seimann

    Cow dominating midfield so he has to be booked. You couldn’t make this stuff up

  • gouresh

    We need,to pass,the ball faster, they aren’t giving us any time. I see another goal coming.

  • David seimann

    Coq not cow. The browser is like the ref – hates aesenal

  • para

    Was that not a shoulder charge?

  • David seimann

    We pass the ball well it’s just the ref gouresh. Makes it difficult. We are actually dominating

  • para

    bad defending.

  • Leon

    If this is “Arsenal dominating” I can’t imagine what it will be like when the other side start playing.

  • David seimann

    Looked like another foul. The ref is a joke. Trying to kill off Iwobi and coq

  • Mike T

    David semiann

    Really not quite sure what game you are watching it pains me to say but Liverpool are battling Arsenal. The only player that I can see that deserves credit is Oxlaide.
    There’s no effect press from Arsenal, themidfield is fragmented and when Liverpool go wide as opposed to setting off runners from midfield there is no cover. The second goal sums it up

  • para

    Come on, that surely a foul?

  • Mike T

    battering

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    Dominating??? The way it’s going we’ll be lucky not to concede another!

  • David seimann

    Yes it was a shoulder charge. Noone else watching this and thinking arsenal would be winning 2-0 if it wasn’t for the cheating ref. Not just me

  • Leon

    Yes, just you!

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    Thought the ref wasn’t doing too bad a job. Have we even tested Mignolet?

  • para

    So, a game of two halves anyone?

  • David seimann

    Wenger right to leave Sanchez out cos of Bayern and cos the media has destabilised him by saying he should leave. Media knows nothing about football

  • Sheworeayellowribbon

    Guys don’t rise to it. He is a spurs or Liverpool fan (or even an AAA) trying to wind you up.

  • para

    David seimann
    Oh, the goals would still have been as Arsenal slipped up both times, but fair reffing is what we crave.

  • Jammy J

    David seimann is clearly a troll, taking the piss. Don’t bother responding, just feel bad for him that his existence is that pathetic and unfulfilled, that he feels the need to troll.

  • Jammy J

    Can someone please just ban this dickhead.

  • Menace

    I hate the PGMOL but this pillock seimann is really something else.

  • gouresh

    28% and dominating?? Is that a new definition? We are not in the game. I cannot see any reaction from any players. God help us in the second half if we continue like this. Looks like a slow death for the team and the manager.

  • David seimann

    You are the troll.

    If you think we’d be losing if the ref was fair you are not an arsenal supporter

  • Sid

    Seimann ? More like semen with those comments …

  • ARSENAL 13

    Come on ARSENAL…We are better than this….Lightyears better.

  • Tom

    david seimann
    Couldn’t agree more.
    The only thing you missed was the red card for a Liverpool player for getting kicked in the head by Coquelin.

  • David seimann

    You’re meant to SUPPORT the team. Criticising players is not cool

  • Polo

    @ David, please calm down, as much as we all love Arsenal, the team is way way below par, nothing to do with the ref. The team look like has no confidence. AW look like a broken man. Not looking good at all.

    Praying for a turn around and somehow win this match.

  • Menace

    Ref has been half decent. Calls the fouls doesn’t over react & has been more than fair with Coquelin.

  • David seimann

    Thanks Tom. Some sense

  • dan

    How poor was the football to get behind us!

  • Jammy J

    He is so clearly a troll taking the piss out of all the regulars on here. Just stop replying to the lowly little maggot, with nothing better to do with his life/time.

  • Scuba

    More like David Semen, amiright?

  • ARSENAL 13

    Come on Girouooooo

  • Leon

    David seimann
    Are you so thick that you can’t see that Tom is taking the piss?

  • gouresh

    This is better, why was this in the 1st half?

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    Looking better this half but still being cut open when the scousers break.

  • Scuba

    gouresh

    On the bench

  • para

    I dont mind talking to idiots, they might learn something. 🙂

  • ARSENAL 13

    Yyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhhhhh cooooommmmeeeee ooooooonnnnn BNN

    Yyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhhhhh

    Dany buoyo Dany buoy

  • para

    one down 2 more to go. 🙂

  • ARSENAL 13

    Come.on ARSENAL
    Come on ARSENAL
    Come on ARSENAL
    Come on ARSENAL

  • ARSENAL 13

    Ooooooo….come on

  • Leon

    I thought Danny’s touch had let him down when he took that pass from Alexis, but he recovered well & took his goal superbly. We should get something from this game.

  • Menace

    Amazing simulation by some of the pool but no cards yet.

    Pundits taking the credit for Alexis assist – they called for him on the field. Wenger didn’t know what he was doing. LOL

  • Gord

    Only 2 Para? Hopefully more than 2.

    How to go Danny and Alexis!

    COYG!

  • Leon

    Looks like seimann’s gone down the pub like he threatened to much earlier

  • ARSENAL 13

    That’s rightly done referee….Yellow for can

  • ARSENAL 13

    That was a dive…. Effing diver Mane

  • Leon

    Welbeck off? I know he misplaced a pass earlier but he’s been good Is he injured?

  • Leon

    I think Can got away with one there

  • ARSENAL 13

    Hahahahahahahaha hahaha Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha HahahHaha

    Xhaka booked for what!!!!!

  • Leon

    Booked for mouthing off. He should shut his mouth even when he’s right

  • Scuba

    Leon

    Have to think match fitness is probably the reason. I actually agree with taking it easy on a guy with his history.

  • Leon

    Scuba
    Yeah! I guess so

  • ARSENAL 13

    Milner is a classic case…. Everytime someone touches him….It’s a foul!!

  • Sammy The Snake

    It’s going to be really hard to defend AW and his team’s performance I. The first half, and the rest of the game as well.

  • Menace

    Diving lesson for all cheats to follow. What a pathetic bit of officiating. If the player dives book the twat.

  • Menace

    What a clear off side!”!!

  • dan

    Iwobi just shoot first time, Shit result, call it a day, no Kore excuses

  • Scuba

    Leaving Alexis on the bench for a big match, which is followed by a basically meaningless match against Bayern and a home match against a non-league side is probably a sackable offense on its own. There’s just no excuse for it. None. Pull the contract offer immediately, and hire someone else.

  • David seimann

    Arsenal deserved the win. Don’t pay attention to the anti Wenger trolls guys

  • dan

    Lost to a long ball team

  • para

    Ah well, another day at the office.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    Same old same old. The boss fails to prepare the team mentally and spends half time correcting the problems. Based on our second half performances we’d be challenging Chelsea right now!

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    Will these Ground hog seasons ever end?????

  • dan

    Start with your best player, Fucking joke

  • dan

    2 weeks rest and hardly prepared, really this is the end.

  • Menace

    Fuck of Scuba & take seimann with you. Both need care in the community.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    Surely we can do better than Iwobi playing as our number 10????

  • Sid

    Can should have gone for 2 yellows, no arguments. Liverpool 3rd goal just a shade offside but we would have still lost 2 1. Coming to this late but why the hell was Sanchez on the bench ? Please ?

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    FA cup it is then guys. COYG!!!!

  • Menace

    Even the pundits realised that the 3rd goal was off side initially but use the term ‘marginally’. There is no justice for Arsenal with poor officials.

  • dan

    We will be mentally prepared for Lincoln.

  • Jai

    Seriously where was Sanchez, Lucas and Theo? Shocking selection

  • Jai

    Oh give it a rest about officials.

  • David seimann

    Can should have been sent off and the third was offside. Arsenal dominated but the sheep on here thinks there’s a crisis because the media tells them so.

    We might not knock out Bayern but we can beat them.. and still you guys will complain. Can see us thrashing Lincoln TBH. We’d be too if it wasn’t for cheating referees

  • ARSENAL 13

    Alexis was on the bench today cos we haven’t given up on Bayern yet….We are not quitters….

  • David seimann

    Jai.. it’s the cheating officials that stop arsenal winning the league. Look at the stats on this site

  • Jammy J

    In this particular match, Arsenal certainly didn’t loose because of the ref, but I did notice that those last 10 minutes, Liverpool seemed to be getting so many soft fouls; practically whenever an Arsenal player even touched them. Also, only 3 minutes of added on time? No way was that only 3 additional minutes. Usually when the shoe is on the other foot, the opposition get an obligatory 5 minutes.

    Finally, that first half was an absolute embarrassment and a team of Arsenals stature should never be made to look like a team that plays in the Conference.

  • dan

    Menace

    Yes the official bottled it and yes he was off side, but no excuses for the 1st half performance, why the fuck do we give ourselves a mountain to climb?

  • Scuba

    Fuck you too, Menace. Conspiracy theorist piece of shit. Nothing is ever the manager’s fault, he’s never made a mistake in his life. What’s the excuse this time? The non-red for Can? Must be 100% on that, playing his best players certainly couldn’t have helped.

  • Vince

    @Sid : You might argue about that challenge on Walcott (in my opinion the contact with Matip probably made it look worse that it was)

    But what is absolutely unbelievable is that it took 3 counter-attack stopping fouls for him to actually get the first yellow. To add insult to injury, on the second one he also prevent Sanchez from taking quickly the free kick.
    It was three obvious yellows, had Madley done his job, Can would have been off the field way before the Walcott incident.
    By the way, on the other side, Coquelin was immediately booked when he pulled Lallana shirt. Nothing surprising there…

  • David seimann

    These are facts. We would have won the league every season for last 5 if the referees didn’t cheat against arsenal like today

  • Josif

    Terrible performance. We should wait until May for the final verdict on the team and the manager but all of them have failed & ran out of excuses. We still have twelve league games to go but given our big game performances in the last 14 months (one victory in seventeen games would be an appalling record for a mid-table team) and that we are yet to play against both Manchester clubs, Spuds and Everton, I think we are closer to seventh place than to a Champions League place. Liverpool had won one in nine matches before this game, had a game on Monday night while our boys had 12 days to recuperate and prepare for this game. We didn’t do it properly and Liverpool got what they absolutely deserve.

    A major overhaul is needed next summer and if there is going to be a managerial change, the new guy should bring a huge stick with him because our players have had too much of a carrot.

  • David seimann

    Why isn’t the pundits talking about the referee. He lost us the game

  • ARSENAL 13

    Can rolled around for 3 mins…..And got Xhaka booked…..Look on Xhakas face at the end said it all….

    This is why we don’t gangup on referees….We get carded for that.

  • dan

    David Seaman

    Get real, you moron!

  • David seimann

    Don’t feed the anti Wenger trolls guys.

    If you ain’t realising it’s the ref that we lost then you should be banned from here

  • Menace

    Surprise surprise the analysis machine does not show the 3rd goal!!! It was off side. Not that it would make a difference. The reality is that our finishing is not sufficiently quick. We do not take the ball into the box & dive like the other teams. It may not get us a pen but it will upset the balance to allow us a chance of a clear shot.

  • dan

    David Seimann

    Your a spud.

  • Jai

    Even being ardent Wenger fan I feel it’s time to send the man on garden leave now. We’ve looked pants for so long now.
    Not sure if anything will change with stan at the helm.

  • Jai

    @He should go today. No finishing the season. It’s over. They dont believe in him. We don’t believe him. Give us a little to be hopeful about going forward.

    He will be remembered as a legend whether or not he keeps bleeding us for 2 more months or not. He should go so that we can maybe salvage fourth again and then we can give him a nice send off before the start of next year. But he’s done. There’s no dignity in allowing him to fumble through two more months.

  • Equalizer

    Great game from a neutral point of view. Ref was certainly kinder to Liverpool but they could have been out if sight by halftime and deserved the points in my opinion. Two wins out of 23 games against top 6 opponents tells it’s own story. Arsenal always look nervous in big games. Always.

  • Tommo

    So Ramsey says in the week its the players letting Wenger down. Well that first half was a disgrace, with or without Sanchez, and those players have to take the blame.

    A totally different 2nd half. Do we really need to depend on Sanchez that much? Are we a one one man team?

    Too many games this season before we wake up, but the damage is already done. Might be able to pull 3 goals back against bournemouth, but we shouldn’t need a wake up call.

    You can whinge on all night about the ref (and I’m sure people will), but not red carding Can or an offside goal in injury time isn’t why we lost tonight. If people want to take solace in that, then so be it.

    Anyway, we move on. That was Liverpool’s cup final. We have bigger fish to fry on Tuesday.

    And by the way, wasn’t the Man Utd ref today, total pants!

  • dan

    Tommo
    Tuesday is a dead match, really we can’t change the outcome, Wenger has done is well, this season has really highlighted our short comings.

  • Tommo

    Dan, so why rest Sanchez? Can only be for Tuesday?
    He will go all guns blazing for it on Tuesday. I guarantee it.

  • dan

    Tommo
    With all due respect, we are not over turning that tie.

  • Scuba

    That’s the point, Tommo. Why rest Sanchez for Tuesday? Are we going to beat Barca 4-0? Not a chance. We can certainly win it, but we’re out of that tie 999 times out of 1000. Not worth damaging our chances at qualifying next year to give it the old college try on Tuesday. It’s idiocy.

  • Scuba

    And by Barca, I meant Bayern, obviously.

  • Tommo

    Dan\scuba. Hard to disagree with you. But Wenger still has the Bayern game at the back of his mind. Hence no sanchez or ozil tonight. Why else leave sanchez out after 2 weeks with no game? Both will start on Tuesday, I’m pretty sure.

    And I expect us to start the game like the first 5 minutes of tonight’s 2nd half, not the first 5 minutes of the 1st half.

    Then again, God knows. It might be like the first 5 minutes of the first half?

  • gouresh

    After pool lost last week, everyone one that they would react today… Were we prepared???? Hell no. Any reaction from our players? No, its just seems that we are going though the motion and no one seems accountable anymore. This is a slow death till the end of the season.

  • dan

    Tommo

    Exactly, our record against the top teams has been atrocious, the CL is full of the elite therefore beyond us at this point. I think Winger knows his been beat and the possibility of him stepping down is more of a realisation.

  • Top Guns

    Anyone on here still defending Wenger is not an Arsenal fan.
    He has been a great manager for Arsenal but he has to go now or he risks tarnishing his legacy. I really do not want that to happen.

  • How come no match report . Well pissed off went down my local pub and they put Geordies game on . Hindsight probably did me a favour , to be honest wasn’t feeling that optimistic .

  • Alex Dieuzeide

    Here we are. 5th place. I’m disappointed. I’m sad. As much as you are I guess.
    Yes, of course, if we played in the first half like we played in the second one, the Gunners would have had a chance to win … And I think I have a right to say it, because I keep on supporting the boys. And I keep on supporting Wenger … Perhaps there were a better option in starting Alexis, Theo, and Perez while placing The Ox in the middle. Maybe. Maybe not. It’s so easy to criticize, eh seimann, eh Scuba and the others…

    Some guys come here trolling, moaning groaning and crying as always. I don’t care about their opinion any more.
    When the team wins, I do not see these guys coming on Untold to say how much they are glad taht the boys played well. Never.
    I do not see them coming and congratulate Theo, Alexis, Ozil, Giroud, Xhaka Kos or Mustaphi when the players have an exceptional game. I do not see messages saying “Wenger is really good!” when we win tough games against big teams, or when Arsenal stands in the table first place.

    They have no idea about what is happening before a game nor why Arsène decides this or that. THEY know what would be good and the others are wrong, to start with the Boss. How can they think they would do better than a guy like Wenger who certainly knows football far better than themselves and who has been living and bleeding Arsenal for 20 years … This is atrocious pretentiousness. And thinking that Arsène would not see what they can see is the pinnacle of stupidity!

    Anybody is entitled to an opinion of course… Provided that this opinion do not take into account only the negatives facts. This guys only come here to criticize, cry and despise the players, the manager and the team. They never talk about the positive. For me, they are obviously not supporters! They can only support their ego.
    I no longer read their messages, they do not deserve to be read. When they’ll come to celebrate the victories, rejoy themselves and congratulate the players, then yes, they will be allowed to give their opinion about an Arsenal bad match and about the boss. Otherwise, they are not real supporters and do not deserve to be listened to. Full stop.

    Yes, I am disappointed. Yes I’m really eager to see the lads reconnect with victory and confidence. Something went wrong, obviously. And maybe Wenger made some bad choices. But I’ll never cry “Wenger out”. Because he can do right choices too. Just for the record, MU couldn’t win today at Old Trafford… against Bournemouth. They are 6th. With such a “skill strategist manager”, stars and billions! Guardiola and Klopp, weeks in weeks out navigate between the 3rd and 7th. And Ranieri, last year title winner was fired recently because Leicester is nearly relegable. Just think about these facts.

    Obviously we miss Santi. We also missed Ozil today. Since several weeks we are lacking a playmaker even if Alexis, thank to his tremendous will to win, sometimes succeed in this role. But even when they play badly, the players will pull out their guts far more than the sad characters who come on Untold to spit out their contempt for the team and manager.

    So I do not believe systematic criticism serves any purpose. My son, another big fan of the gunners, once said to me on some defeat day “One is always disappointed when one is supporting a team. But you know dad, I think the players and the coach are much more disappointed then we are. So what’s the use laying it on thick?” He was seventeen. And yet apparently his mental age was already superior then the one of some whiners here.

    COYG!

    (Sorry for my not so good english, I would love to be from Islington, really, but I’m just a french Gooners fan 🙂 )

  • The road is long

    Really really difficult night! Wenger is a true legend however I feel the years have caught up with him and he perhaps needs a new challenge and Arsenal need a fresh manager with new ideas. Alexis and Ozil look likely to leave and we should maximise the monetary potential of both so we can rebuild. It’s sad to see Wenger like this however with all due respect to the man, he needs to depart and the fans will always remember him positively

  • Gooneress No1

    Top Guns – you’re being rather silly.

  • Jammy J

    “Anyone on here still defending Wenger is not an Arsenal fan” Well, I can assure you that the regulars on this website are not going to suddenly start berating Wenger and stop getting behind him, so I guess that means you probably wouldn’t want to read and contribute to this site anymore, considering it is written by, as well as the majority of it’s members being, non-Arsenal fans?

  • Have to say regulars conspicuous by their absence .

  • GoingGoingGooner

    Regulars can’t be bothered with your vitriol. The sun will rise tomorrow.

  • Was at the game today, can anyone explain why Sanchez was on the bench. WTF, maybevglame Brexit, Trumph

  • Got what we deserved today, I FU@king hate the scousers, better than us today, keeping Sanchez for the big Luncoln game, wtf

  • Leon

    Pre season most of the more sensible commenters here forecast that the FA cup was our most likely trophy, and so it remains. I’ll be OK with that.
    This is the level of our incompetence.

  • Be interested to see how the blog spins this result, referee, statistics, anything but Arsene……

  • Real Madrid want wenger, read that somewhere, Tony Blair spin doctor, wenger’s record is second to none…..ermmm, pigs can fly.

  • Polo

    Interesting fact: Klopp is the first manager to do a double over Arsenal since 1999/2000 season in the EPL, some records can’t last forever I guess.

    Whenever Arsenal lose it’s a full blown crisis even though the team is only 3 points from second spot at the moment. Funny comment, you are not ‘an Arsenal fan’ if you support AW, is that a 12 year old mentality or somebody watched to many AFTV?

    Please AW signed that contract (if true) to end the speculations and uncertainties.

  • Arsene knows best,!!! (Exclamation Mark notted) ,Should do on 6 Million a year. Built the stadium with his bear hands don’t you know…

  • Polio, 3 points from second, the new first then, emm, how far behind Chelsea then

  • Bring George Graham back, better record and manager that Wenger,,, fact

  • So many posts without getting banned, ,,, blog police asleep (like Arsene), I’m off to bed, blame the ref in the morning…

  • Vanya Dickens

    Guy’s stick together and continue to support the team, that’s what fan’s do. It’s a game and we all take it badly when we lose but these things happen.
    COYG
    GODSPEED ARSENE WENGER – LEGEND

  • Polo

    @ Klis, you are right it is a divine right that Arsenal win the league every year, ignore the fact that other top clubs having the same ambition. So I guess if the team can’t get first let go down fighting in the relegation zone? And explain how many teams over the life of the EPL has won the league? Not many I assume.

    Why is ManU, ManC, Spurs, and Liverpool still fighting to get the CL spot? Why all not pack up and play the kids?

    Here we go again, GG is better blah blah blah and it’s a fact when evidence suggest otherwise.

  • para

    Fact is, the whole Arsenal “team” is under performing. At half time i was looking for a better performance, alas it was not to be.

  • ARSENAL 13

    So the ‘irregulars’ are here on a full swing….

    We can turn around the first leg deficit against Bayern or not, going out without a fight is not ARSENAL. So people who have given up on Bayern game, please don’t come here with your intellectual analysis which we simpletons can’t understand….

  • Florian

    para,

    Underperforming by what standards? Those insanely high that plastics like you expect every given day from a team that’s constantly subject to negativity from the press and kicking from the opponents, under the watchful eye of the pigmob representatives, who couldn’t be bothered to care for their mothers to be stretchered off from under a car?

    Yes we are aunderperforming, we don’t win every match by 5-0, finish the season with 104 points, win the UCL final by 3-0 and the International Champions Cup by 10-0. That’s what the level of expectation is like, and makes everything but a clear win look like a catastrophic defeat, and the only solution that’s left is to bring in a new manager and kick the players’ a**es until they die of heart attack on the field, or end up concussed the Bellerin style. It’s a wonder that boy is still playing. Ever being concussed yourself? I bet not, otherwise you would know what it’s like and wouldn’t write like the stupid things you do.

    And now you and all the haters, let me tell you a secret: It’s very easy to sit on your butt and talk, but when push comes to shove it’s the manager and the players’ that put their jobs on the line. It’s very easy to criticize, but much harder to actually go out and do something coherent and constructive. It’s very easy to destroy, and very hard to build something that lasts. Arsenal have to cover their ears to be able to carry on their quest for growth, because if it were by idiots like you, the club would be playing in the fourth division with the kind of “knowledge” you claim to have. Let the pros do their job, and if you can’t support them, as any fan worth his salt should, at least have the decency to shut up and not add to the people’s misery. Because if you think they feel good about losing the match, or any match for that matter, it means you have no idea what a professional attitude is like. Ok, back under your stone now.

  • Florian

    Sorry for the misspellings. I’m mad.

  • Menace

    Wenger is manager for the simple reason that he knows more than Klis, Shoot, Scuba & any other WOB put together & multiplied by Wenger’s millions. His decision to leave Alexis on the bench was novel & didn’t really make a difference as the weakness was our defensive positioning. Our game still lacks that ‘cheating’ mentality that seems to be successful in today’s game. It is a pathetic display, not dissimilar to Bayern’s (Klopp being a student of that diving style) in Germany.

    I cannot see Wenger adapting to cheating as he has always taken the high moral ground. Xhaka was carded by the referee for conversation – not dissent – probably a Riley instruction.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    We were very poor in the first half . Much better showing in the second , but a mountain to climb . The players should have done much better ,but occassionally seem rudderless .

    A few good crosses from the right in the second half , that should have been converted into chances , but were sadly not taken, and players not pressing enough . Did not win much of the first ball nor the second ball.

    And their players falling over all too easily at the slightest touch late in the second half upset us . We should have known better . With us pushing forward there always was the chance of them sucker punching us on the breakaway .

    Another bad day at the office , but hope bounce back . That’s what a true Arsenal fan would hope and expect .
    Up the Gunners !

  • Top Guns

    Brick fields – I can only assume that you work for the club.
    Any true fan would expect changes to be made after yesterday, not just to say you hope for better in future.

  • dan

    Usual paper bullshit Max Allegri has agreed to take over.

  • Pat

    Pity to see all the anti Arsenites turning up in force on the Untold site. Pity, but expected.

    Since none of them were with Arsene on the training pitch, I don’t see where the comment that we were ‘poorly prepared’ comes from.

    I don’t know why we were slow out of the blocks in the first half. Obviously Liverpool weren’t. As predicted, their recent pitiful loss, and the prospect of facing Arsenal, had fired them up. Early first goal obviously made a lot of difference.

    But we were much better in the second half – and here’s where the ref comes in. Not giving Can another yellow card – and being late in the first place in giving him the first one – and then to add insult to injury giving Xhaka a yellow card, could obviously have made a vital difference in giving us a fair chance to get a draw.

    Arsene looked angry at the end.

  • Pat

    I suggest all the ‘experts’ who have been thrashing Arsene in the above debate do what I just did and watch his post match interview on Arsenal.com. Here he gives a complete explanation of his tactical approach in choosing the players he chose to play against this particular team, Liverpool.

    He puts the slow start down to recent lack of competition. Sounds rational to me. He says we took the direct approach – the goalie playing straight to the strikers – and put two big men up front. We did not make enough of our opportunities on the corners where Liverpool is vulnerable. So there was a weakness in collective performance in the first half, not in the tactics decided on.

    He points out we were much better in the second half and could have got a draw and it is quite clear he thinks Can should have been sent off, even though he does not say so but advises the journos to speak to the referee. He himself says he will not speak to the referee because what is the point, what’s done is done. In general he says we were unlucky, including in some decisions.

    So, trolls, what’s your answer?

  • Top Guns

    Pat – isnt it about time you considered why Arsenal no longer win matches against the top sides?

    It is always if if if – wake up!!!

  • Hi Berry

    Anyone wondering why we started so slow should read Bellerin’s very revealing post-match comments. For Wenger to suggest it was lack of recent competition is spin-doctoring of the highest order….if we had played last week it would have been ‘the players are jaded’…the excuses just keep on coming and are designed to absolve him of any blame for the current rinse, repeat state of affairs that so many seem quite happy to lap up season after season.

    How on earth can it be right that the Board are waiting for Wenger’s decision on whether he will carry on next season? In what other business, large or small, does the employer have the power to tell his employers such a thing? The club is weak-willed from the very top all the way down…too much ‘top four will do’ mentality instead of reaching for the biggest prizes.

    Arsenal are adrift and rudderless – too many players are indulged, overpaid and too comfortable to put in the extra effort required at this level.

  • tom

    We just simply werent at the races today.We regroup and carry on

  • Polo

    Surprises me some people just follow the media narrative without thinking when expressing this type of nonsense ‘too much ‘top four will do’ mentality ‘. I thought 1st place is included in the ‘top 4’? It’s ridiculous to suggest teams don’t aim to win the League at the start of each season but only aim to finish outside 1st place, it’s only logical if you fail to win the competition than you try to get the highest position still available. Luckily, most managers are not stupid enough to think that if 1st place is unachievable during the season then the team should just give up and stop playing and just go mid-table or into relegation zone.

  • Hi Berry

    Sorry. Polo, but I disagree….Arsenal give every indication of being quite happy to secure a CL berth without having to take that extra step that a creditable tilt at the league title would take. Keeping faith with Wenger year after year rather than looking to bring in someone who might shake the players out of their comfort-zone is testament to this. In Wenger’s own words ‘I would be happy to finish second for twenty years’ says it all and it is this kind of thinking that now pervades every brick and fibre of the money-making machine that Arsenal have become. It is blatantly obvious that if Wenger couldn’t lift the title in a gift of a season last year he never will again and his record of no European successes in thirty odd years of management in Europe is about as poor as it gets amongst the higher echelons of great managers.

    Cast your mind back to the announcement of the need to move to a larger stadium to compete with Europe’s best and ask yourself whether we are or not. History suggests we are no more than a decent third tier ‘European power’ despite the revenues generated by the outstanding business model and Wenger does not have the wherewithal to change that. One day the move and the revenues we generate might change all that, but sad to say it won’t be with Wenger at the helm even if he stayed for another twenty years.

  • Not afraid gunner

    When will the sheep admit that the game is up? Wenger had 12 days to prepare his team for this match. 12 days! Liverpool had 5!

    Wenger had never been a top manager. The early success was partly due to top players and a monopoly of French talent. Now he has normal players he appears lost. Every analytical mind can see the problem he has in the midfield. Coq cannot endure pressing, he is not good with ball, yet he plays him. He has M-Niles as a better option, but he hasn’t seen that yet or he doesn’t think highly of him.

    Liverpool like most other teams need good wing play to be lethal. To stop that, it is important to cut out crosses and have a tight midfield. We had none of that. Same with Bayern, and a long list of teams.

    Why start Giroud, when he is better towards the end of the match against tiring defences? We lost yesterday because if the manager. The problem is that the guy blames everything but himself. Inwardly, he knows he is past it. He must be having echoes of Monaco on his mind. Monaco is playing out right before us.

    My team for Liverpool

    Czech

    Bell Must Kos Mon
    Xhaka
    M-Niles. Coq

    Perez. Sanchez. Wellbeck

    This team would have won or at least drawn at Liverpool.

  • Alex Dieuzeide

    You really made me laugh and made my day!
    If we still needed to show that some fans confuse their desires with reality, that’s done!
    Wenger has never been good? So all fans were wrong when they cheered for his victories? (All fans except you of course) All the “best manager awards” he has collected all these years have been granted by idiots? And why do you never come and tell us how bad is Wenger when the team wins and stands top of the table? Maybe you think your “selling point” would be a little bit less obvious, don’t you?
    I suggest that you postulate its succession since in 10 lines you are able to do much better than he did (and better than dozens of other managers did too, btw). You change 2 players and swap 2 positions in the team HE built and hop, we are winner! Let me remind you of what we are talking about. Beat Liverpool. Beat Liverpool at Anfield Road. Beat the Klopp’s Liverpool to Anfield Road. Maybe on the planet where you’re from, it’s soooo easy. Not here. Let’s be a little serious and realistic! Or go back to FIFA15.
    (and again, btw, who built the team you are pretending able to win against Liverpool with -including M.Niles?
    And let’s leave apart what is the definition of a “good” manager for a club… this is a debate you could fail to understand.)

  • Alex Dieuzeide

    Sorry, should have mentioned. My above post is an answer to the “Not afraid gunner” one.

  • Polo

    @ Hi Berry, ‘In Wenger’s own words ‘I would be happy to finish second for twenty years’ after reading the article it seem to me AW words were twisted, he was referring to the 2011 Arsenal team that if they came second he would sign for another 20 years, no where he said he was happy finishing second. These are his words ‘The Arsenal boss said: “As long as you are second in the league, I am ready to sign for the next 20 years.’ ‘But he added: “I am only very proud of what this team has done.”’

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/football/479338/arsene-is-happy-to-be-2nd-rate/

    On your point ‘It is blatantly obvious that if Wenger couldn’t lift the title in a gift of a season last year he never will again’ you do realize that Leicester only lost 3 matches for the season, and two of those lost was against Arsenal. This season so far Chelsea lost 3 matches and they are in 1st place, is this season should be a gift as well?

    ‘his record of no European successes in thirty odd years of management in Europe is about as poor as it gets amongst the higher echelons of great managers.’ There are plenty of great managers who never won the European Cup/Champions League such as Bobby Robson and Bill Shankly.

    ‘compete with Europe’s best and ask yourself whether we are or not.’ If Arsenal didn’t make the move to The Emirates would Arsenal be even competing in Europe?

  • Alex Dieuzeide

    Polo, very good point and well said!

  • Hi Berry

    Polo, you can put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig. It really is laughable the way you cling to any passing piece of driftwood in defence of Wenger. No mention in there of Leicester’s wage bill or cost in assembling that team and to cite managers like Shankly and Robson is scraping the barrel somewhat…Shankly retired in 1974 when the European Cup was a proper competition for Champions only. He had one stab at winning it and got to the semi-finals losing 4-3 on agg to Inter Milan.

    Here are some other statistics for you…Bob Paisley was manager of Liverpool between 1974 and 1983 and in that time he won the European Cup three times and got to the quarter finals twice in eight attempts. Joe Fagan was Liverpool manager for two years and won it in his first year and was a losing finalist the following (the infamous Heysel final).

    Brian Clough had one stab at the European Cup with Derby getting to the semi-final and won it twice with Nottingham Forest in three attempts. Even Tony Barton (who???) won the damn thing with Aston Villa with two attempts.

    Robson might not have won the European Cup/CL but did lift the UEFA cup with mighty Ipswich(!!!) in 81 before being sidelined from club football for eight years by being England manager (World Cup s/final 1990). Upon his return to club football he had a glittering career winning four league titles in six years at PSV and Porto and the Cup Winners Cup with Barcelona.

    George Graham wasn’t given the opportunity to compete in the European Cup due to the ban after Heysel. In one attempt at the Cup Winners Cup in 93/4 he won it.

    Now compare all that with Wenger’s record if you will..twenty odd attempts with Arsenal and one CL final and one UEFA Cup Final (losing to Galatasary having been dumped out of the CL at the group stage) with a team that should have swept all before it…and the above is just a comparison with English club managers not including Busby and Ferguson . Try looking up the numerous foreign managers who have lifted the Europen Cup/CL and compare their statistics as well.

    Your question regarding whether we would be competing in Europe had we not made the move to the Emirates is irrelevant. We are only in it for the money with ritual hammerings at the last 16 stage by Europe’s best…you know, the ones we were supposed to be competing with. Well, if you think 5-1 defeats by Bayern is competing I feel sorry for you.

  • Not afraid gunner

    Hi Berry

    They have their heads firmly buried in sand. They fail to understand that the manager is NOT the club.

    I still maintain that Wenger is an average manager. He is not a top manager. No top club will employ him if he leaves Arsenal. All the top teams in the EPL want him to remain at Arsenal to guarantee easy victory against us. The guy is clueless. Very clueless.

  • Not afraid gunner

    This “good” manager scouted Xhaka , a guy who lacks pace and who cannot keep the ball when harried. This excellent manager keeps playing Coq despite his limitations. This fine manager keeps playing OX on the wings , when his best games have always been in the middle. This fantastic manager cannot drop Ozil, no matter how lazy he plays. This wonderful manager did not start Sanchez his best player in a crunch game.

    This wonderful manager, persisted with injury plagued Diaby, slow Song, inept Dennilson, Senderous and the broken back player.

    This superfluous manager started SANOGOAL against Bayern.

    All the early trophies were down to very good players he had. And free reign over pipeline of excellent players from the French league one.