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What is the most effective way of bringing about change at Arsenal?

By Tony Attwood

OK so you don’t want Mr Wenger to continue in his job.  Maybe you want Ivan Gazidis to go as well.  Perhaps you want Silent Stan to sell – he’s got Mr Usmanov always waiting in the wings so why not.

Which raises the question, what are you going to do about it?   Or put another way, what is the most effective way of influencing the club so that it changes, as you want it to?

It is a question that has been faced by many supporters in many different clubs, but it is interesting that although we must all have seen protests at numerous clubs in recent years, we have not seen many debates about what is the most effective method of achieving change.   Nor indeed what approaches to achieving change that might be adopted can have unexpected consequences.

There are, as far as I can see, three approaches that are being used at the moment: by protesting at matches, by creating blogs that point out the perceived failures of the club, and by supporting the national media which has an agenda (for their own benefit) of giving publicity to those who are against the current regime.

Given that these have been going on for quite a while one might say that they have not been very successful.  The first criticisms of Arsene Wenger from the media and the supporters that followw them, came in his first couple of seasons with attacks on the number of yellow and red cards the club got.   The numbers turned out to be completely false, as well as meaningless (since no comparisons were ever made with the number of cards gained by other clubs) but the attack was a unifying feature for the media and those who didn’t want a foreign manager for a while.

The first “x years since a trophy” occurred I think, around 2010, and built up slowly after that.  After Arsenal won the FA Cup in 2014 it was changed to “x years since we won the league”.  It, like the discipline commentary before it, started in the mass media and was soon picked up by disaffected fans.

But the fact that this commentary has been going on for about seven years suggests that by itself it is not very successful in bringing about change.   This is, of course, completely fine by the media, because the longer the issue remains the more they will get an audience when they highlight it, and it is a message that can be delivered without any cost in terms of research and without the need to think of any new stories to run.

However Mr Wenger and his team are still there, after maybe seven years of protest – which again suggests the approach of chanting, banners, blogs and readily going onto phone-ins isn’t actually very effective.

Now we often have people who write in and claim that Einstein said that the definition of madness is doing something that fails and then doing it again and again.  I got fed up with asking writers to justify the notion that Einstein ever said that (although I must admit I only asked because I am fairly familiar with the great man’s pronouncements of a non-mathematical nature so I was always fairly certain he never did say such a thing) so now I just don’t publish them.

But irrespective of whoever did create the saying, it does seem that those who are against Mr Wenger and other senior staff at the club, are tending to use the same methodology over and over again – and yet he is still there.  Why are they just doing something that fails?

About five or six years ago there was much talk of the fact that the waiting list for season tickets, silver membership and travel club membership had vanished, and the Telegraph has been a great exponent of the notion that the numbers attending matches has fallen.  Unfortunately speaking to those on the waiting lists for such memberships confirms that the waiting lists appear to be there, and I can say from experience that something as simple as seeking to change where I sit in the ground took years to achieve.

Equally unfortunately for those who seek a media message that will help bring down Mr Wenger and his colleagues within the club, the Telegraph’s campaign showing an apparently empty stadium during a match was taken at a game in which Arsenal were not even playing, and the one picture they had where the crowd was low was taken shortly after kick off on an evening when there was disruption of the underground system. Fifteen minutes later the ground was as full as normal.

And yet given the failure of the protests within and without the ground and the vast amount of articles on blogs and commentaries within the mass media to the effect that Mr Wenger must go, nothing has changed.  Is continuing the campaign in its current form, truly a sign of madness, as so many correspondents have said?

The media love the approach because it makes for cheap copy that gets big audiences – that is always their motive.  But in terms of change, there is an approach that would probably stand a much better chance of achieving its aim of removing Mr Wenger, and it is interesting that it is seemingly not being adopted.

That approach is, of course, not going to games and not watching the club on TV.   It is often claimed (both by correspondents to Untold and on other forums) that huge numbers of Arsenal supporters are against Mr Wenger.   If that is so, if they simply banded together and refused to use their red, silver or gold memberships, and then at the end of the season did not renew, while writing to the club to say why, I am sure the effect would be rapid.

As I have noted above I am often told this is about to happen, and I am sure we will get the same message this year, but so far none of these promises of action has ever happened.  Instead all we get are the protests and the moaning from the anti-Wengerians, and the usual arrogance, amnesia and assumptions as the mainstream fare from the media who find this a wonderful space filler to keep running over and over.

As long as the only approach is to claim that most fans want Mr Wenger out, while we see the number of tickets sold remaining high and there still be a waiting list for silver and gold membership, the only real conclusion that we can reach is not that this is a sign of madness (one would need some other factors within the equation to make this a valid judgement) but rather that people protest as they do, even though they know their protest has had no effect for years, because it makes them feel good.

And that is probably what it is all about.   The regular protesters who are now being picked up by the mass media get the publicity, and love it.  The rest… well social psychologists will tell you that feeling that you are part of a movement can be very reassuring.  Even if the movement is an absolute failure in terms of achieving its aims.

So that’s it in the end.  The protests at the moment are mostly about seeking reassurance and feeling good.  If they were not, then at some stage over the last seven or so years the protesters would have said, “hang on, this isn’t working – maybe we should stop coming to games and stop watching Arsenal on TV.”

There is one other point however: protesting against the Arsenal is part of a grand tradition that goes way back – at least to the time of Herbert Chapman, who called the protesters the “boo-boys”.  So I guess the protesters could say they are part of a tradition over 85 years long.  If that is so, I look forward to reading a book on the History of Moaning about Arsenal.  Could be an interesting read.

If no one else writes it, I might have a go myself.

Arsenal History Books on Kindle

The novel “Making the Arsenal” by Tony Attwood which describes the events of 1910, which created the modern Arsenal FC, is now available for the first time on Kindle.  Full details are here.

Also available on Kindle, “Woolwich Arsenal: the club that changed football” the only comprehensive history of the rise of Arsenal as a league club, and the attempts to destroy the club, from within and without.   For full details please see here.

Both books are also available as paperbacks.  Please see here.

54 comments to What is the most effective way of bringing about change at Arsenal?

  • Mike T

    Historically we have heard chants at grounds about sacking the board but I am struggling to recall any club( other than Chelsea when the fans didn’t want Benitez anywhere near the club and that was nothing to do with what was happening on the pitch it was regarding his comments about Chelsea when he was at Liverpool) , where the supporters have demonstrated against the manager.
    I have no doubt that the press are bugging up the demonstrations but they do seem to be gaining momentumfrom a footballing perspective it’s a sad state of affairs.

  • tom

    Tony i think you will find that the protests will work eventually and get to Wenger,Gazidis and silent stan.There are more protests being organised and as they get more publicity you will find more and more joining them especially if the manager keeps the club in limbo to the end of the season.If he does take the 20 million and sign on for another 2 years ,that is when you will see toxicity the likes of never before at arsenal.The ammount of real fans that have become disalusioned not just by the manager but also by the regime, is growing daily and this is being shown by how many tickets are being resold to the tourist fans in the exchange.
    We are already the laughing stock of european football and the press can you imagine if he signed on again for 10 million a year after what we have all witnessed especially the last two season.How can you reward someone for failure.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    After AW is finally driven out , I suppose that the press will then revert attention to more pressing issues that may or may not plague the nation. All football related news will only be positive .
    I mean everything is fine and dandy with the FA , EPL , UEFA , FIFA , the BIGMOB , the national team . It only going to get boring with no new axes to grind.
    Till then it’ll be overdrive on Arsenal. Yawn !

  • Ben

    One thought that i had was, if some supporters are not happy with the board etc how come they did not go and create their own team like the United of Manchester?

    Is it because it is easier to whinge?

  • Pat

    How can you reward someone for failure?

    This final comment by tom says it all. Anyone who can describe Arsenal’s last twenty years – or even last ten years or last three years – as a failure has lost all sense of perspective. Nuts!

    But anyway, tom, at least you realised you were one of the targets of Tony’s article.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    FAKE NEWS ?

    Zinedine Zidane has opened up why he headbutted Marco Materazzi during the 2006 World Cup Final.
    Zidane… “He dragged my shirt, I ignored him, He called my mother a whore,
    I ignored him…He called my father a terrorist, I also ignored that “.
    Then I lost my temper when he told me, ‘Go and join Arsenal’.”

  • I think I speak for a large number of Arsenal fans who, despite our gratitude to the greatest manager in the club’s history, feel it is time for a change. I’m also bemused to hear certain players express remorse that their manager is taking all the flak when they seem incapable (or willing?) to perform for him on the field.
    Whatever your job there comes a point when your ability to carry it out at the highest level and our great manager has reached this stage in his career.
    The best case scenario for the club is that this group of players somehow win three FA Cup games allowing Arsene to walk away to the cheers of the fans and allow a new manager to sort out this underperforming bunch of players next season.
    I, like a lot of supporters, have seen much worse situations at the Arsenal and can only hope that the next manager has half the success and brings us a fraction of the memories that Arsene has achieved in his 20 years at the club.

  • Jai

    Great read. I think Arsenal need a reset and we may need a few years in mid-table obscurity until we have a solid structure both at the top and also in the middle. Have a look at Sanzhez’s stats – he runsa less than Ozil! I think both may go and if that happens so be it. Get players in who want to play for the badge – the reality is we are punching above our weight. When we get a board who are progressive and want to invest in the longevity of the club, and a coach who can adapt to the changing modern game, we will see Arsenal come back. The next five years or so won’t be pretty but then mid-90’s, although relatively trophy laden domestically cally and Europe, were also tough. It is going to be an interesting summer. I think this season is the season where we may fall away from the top four and maybe that’s just what we need – the business philosophy of the owners would have failed and therefore they will need a Plan B if they want to pick up their gold-plated pay envelopes!

  • Jai

    Arsene Wenger says that protests over his future will play a part in the decision he makes at the end of this season.

    This is it guys, let’s make the protest mass in size, he needs to know this is unacceptable and I hope he is gone by the end of the season.

  • tom

    Pat
    Can i ask you why chelsea fans sang during our recent loss to them that they want Wenger to stay at arsenal???Was it because they recognise that he is one of the best managers in the world or is it because they know that whilst he is still our manager we are no threat to them winning the league??

  • gouresh

    Hi Jai, AW said it wont.

  • ossasa

    Just to reiterate that the Barca coach is to go due to pressure at the season’s end. He and his team have just pulled off the greatest comeback in Euro football and yet they want to go further. Remarkable and truly awesome. Arsene seems to crumble under pressure with all the wrong body language now that is on the Untold agenda. Say what you will of GG but he went to Anfield and pulled off the impossible. If Arsenal had done the same to BM the ref would not get a mention except in a joking fashion. That my friends is football. I know a few staunch Wenger supporters who are taking a walk outside the temple to test the air. They are still breathing. Do not be afraid.

  • Bobome

    Tony thanks for re-asserting once again the wrong premise the WOB and aaa are basing their call for the dismissal of Arsene as manager of AFC. The Club itself has never once disavowed the manager, on the contrary we hear that they are offering him a 2 years extension to his stay. What that tells me is that they absolutely approve of his tenure as it accords with what they want.

    An adjunct to that is that Arsene is also a good poster ‘boy’ for the club’s ethos and approach to footballing. Which to me also means that AFC will not change that culture it has devolved all these years overnight even when Arsene goes. The AFC culture is its anchor to the changes in the football world and they are most unlikely to depart from it. That is what gives the Club it’s uniqueness and football style. They would not cut deals nor condone unsportsmanlike behavior by their footballers on the field of play.

    You may succeed in forcing a change of manager but the opposers would have a hard time in changing the AFC culture. That is where the conundrum will persist for them (WOBs and aaa) when to their chagrin the new manager upholds what Arsene had always upheld at grave costs to his well being. It is my view that AFC will continue to be robbed by the establishment for their ethos no matter who the manager is and for as long as they remain unchanged.

    The solution lies in a recalibration of how football is financed, administered and umpired. For as long as cheating and skulduggery remains part and parcel of soccer so long with it clash with AFC’s culture and leave us all frustrated and angry with Arsenal players for not winning matches at all costs. Win at all costs? No not for me. We just have to win in spite of the obstacles these establishments present in a superior manner, the Arsenal way.

  • That is fine Mike, were it not for the fact that there is no guarantee that another manager would do better. Indeed when you look at what has happened to other clubs in the top six who have replaced their managers what you find is by and large a failure to do any better. Liverpool have regularly had replacements, Man U have had problems in replacing Ferguson (now on their third attempt), Man City will all the money in the world can’t deliver what correspondents here want (winning or challenging up to the last couple of weeks, in every season), Tottenham went through about 15 managers before they found one who could challenge, and he can’t keep them in the Europa League… Chelsea is the one exception, and that level of money simply isn’t available to Arsenal.

  • ARSENAL 13

    So, people want a few seasons of “midfield obscurity” to build on from there. Yet consider top 4 finish as a failure. Hypocrisy of the highest order.

    Also Barca going through is considered as “greatest” ????….They dived/playacted their way into next round. Pathetic. I dont want ARSENAL to progress like that….

  • Bobome

    I am also mindful of the possibility of many ‘Game 50s’ being engineered against us no matter how good we are. The real AFC supporters better hold on to that as a fact of life or jump ship and go to some other Club. I can live with it, my life does not depend on it. It is only a form of entertainment trophies or not. Let the media say what it will “….zillion years without winning the Guba Cup…” it is their opinion and it will not define my reality.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Very true, if you believe Stan is part of a problem, a man like him isn’t going to change anything while the cash flows in.
    I assuming they want Mr Wenger to stay, perhaps they could alter the structure a little to help him out a bit more, and a structure that allows for succession planning which seems to be missing.
    Personally,,I don’t think Stan is the worst owner, he lets the manager get on with it, or appears to, with minimum interference…..we all see in the wider game what CAN happen when an owner interferes. But , that said, Stan doesn’t seem the type to wish to turn Arsenal into a ruthless winning machine that some believed we would become after Highbury.
    But, the true measure of this board and owner may be revealed after Mr Wenger departs, fans might end up assured, or they could end up really angry
    There may …or may not be change this summer, but even if there is will probably result in no change, even if Wenger departs, Stan seems wedded to his ways and I doubt if he is for change

  • tom

    Arsenal 13 You probably would rather get beat 10-2 by bayern over 2 legs than go through like barcelona did last night.Quite pathetic really.I bet you stopped watching the Arsenal when Pires and Eboue regularly dived for penaltys .And couldnt watch when viera bullied his way through midfielders..Those where the days!!

  • Not afraid gunner

    The club has come out to deny statements that they have given Wenger a contract. They have said that any new contract will be by mutual agreement. Guess the pressure is getting to even the sterile board.

  • Jai

    Gouresh, did you watch Wenger’s press conference? He said that a part of his decision is going to be influenced by the fans.

    His time is coming to a end.

  • Nitram

    “I bet you stopped watching the Arsenal when Pires and Eboue regularly dived for penaltys.”

    Depends what you call ‘Regularly’ I suppose.

    Now this is what I call ‘regularly’.

    The following are little collections of Wayne Rooney and Steven Gerrards contributions. The sheer quality and quantity to be found, especially regarding Gerrard, is pretty impressive.

    http://footballburp.com/lists/top-10-wayne-rooney-dives/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mca4jt-mnkE

    Following Pires dive against Portsmouth he was never allowed to forget it, yet there where, and still are, far far worse culprits who hardly get a mention, Gerrard and Rooney included.

    Yes, there are 2 or 3 Pires dives that I could find on utube but there is nothing like the sheer quality or quantity of those 2. In fact a couple are pretty desperate accusations.

    I doubt there’s an attacking playing in existence that hasn’t on occasion, gone down too easily, and Pires is no exception. But to label him a ‘diver’, or as Danny Mills did “The player that brought diving to the Premiership” is simply not true.

    Pires spent 6 fantastic years at Arsenal and was never, in my opinion, the habitual diver the media made him out to be.

    If someone can find me a montage of Pires dives that anywhere near matches those 2 above I will apologise, but honestly, I never saw Pires as an habitual diver.

    I may be wrong.

  • Nitram

    Here’s another few gems from Rooney:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMwkNcLFL0c

    If anyone can find me something even close to this for Pires I’ll be surprised. I stand to be corrected.

  • insideright

    Tony – you are absolutely correct and so are those who are quoting today’s press conference regarding the influence of fans.
    Supporters have always moaned at matches but the only way that they can influence change and have their opinion heard is actually to not renew their season tickets – and to do so in sufficient numbers to bring down paying crowds by a significant amount.
    Given that the Club is in a situation of zero net debt that revenue reduction would have to be really significant to impact on the Clubs ability to meet its commitments and would therefore hit the transfer fund first and hardest.
    This would deter any incoming manager from accepting the job unless he was confident that the existing squad plus emerging youngsters were strong enough to give him confidence in the future.
    In the absence of such a top level (fan acceptable) replacement there would only be one option. Reappoint Wenger, potentially lose some fans disaffected by that decision and rebuild from within. The resultant improvement in atmosphere at the stadium due to the absence of some of the moaners would be a bonus and encourage those of us who would renew anyway to do so with even more enthusiasm.
    When the ‘time for change’ protests were brought into the stadium last season they were roundly booed by the vast majority there and the following week Stan Kroenke bought more shares and strengthened his position yet further.
    Go for it Stan – call their bluff!

  • Jai

    I do agree with you Tony that merely getting rid of Wenger will not necessarily resolve things long term. If we look at our inept board and an owner who has absolutely no interest in the club than these are two other areas which are probably more important than just hiring and firing the manager. That’s not to say I think Wenger should stay. He is delivering what he is supposed to – a top 4 finish and hopeful cup along the way – if that happens.

    How do the board react? Well we have just seen the club release a statement which is basically another hiding behind the scenes nonsense. I think that this season however will see Tottenham finish above us which will add to the howls for him to go. The successor to Wenger will have to make genuine progress by winning trophies and attracting sound marketing investments which will pay the bills. Yes we need cash and whether we like it or not as money is the root of all evil in professional football.

    Whilst the world economy lurches from boom to bust, the finances of football still buck the trend. The Chinese super league now think that they can buy their way to credibility by buying legends. Broadcasting deals from BT and BSkyB have ensured that the greed of players will not be satisfied anytime soon. The Arsenal wages structure is in dire need of reform. Wenger’s left wing ideological system based upon low differentials between players has not worked and has only served to reward ineptitude and lack of desire.

    The Leicester success last season demonstrates that you don’t need a team of highly paid world class stars to win the league if the team spirit and effort is right. Equally, young potential stars need to understand that fame does not come just through earning £90k a week aged 20 years old. Claudio Ranieri arguably lost his players because of money rather than the lack of it. One could argue that the alleged Leicester player conspiracy to oust this great man was fuelled by greed, but when all is said and done, true team spirit is motivated by ambition, and if you are showered with riches, then the ambition to work hard for the club and the fans is simply diminished.

    Gooners have marched to show their disgust, they are left this season with the likelihood of a FA cup semi-final berth by beating Lincoln City (assuming no giant killing performance). This will only delay the pain and when we finally face Manchester City, the outcome of that game might leave us well outside the top five if Manchester United makes up the points deficit.

    The Sanchez row has only highlighted the failure of this squad to build team spirit and cement a pride of what it means to play for your club. Arsenal has often been described as punching above its weight, and the AKB’s would have you believe that the club only came to prominence after Arsène Wenger’s appointment. This is a cruel lie and airbrushes out the real historical facts of Arsenal’s dominance in top flight English football in past decades which was “The Arsenal Way” and it’s subsequent success was borne out of the family ownership of Arsenal football club by true fans for fans, and having visionaries like Herbert Chapman.

    It takes shrewd investment decisions to buy or develop players that will not break the bank, mixed with a number of established veterans who will give a hundred percent on the field. Sounds familiar? Arsène Wenger once did this. However he could not have achieved this without the defensive back four courtesy of George Graham. Arsène Wenger has to be thanked for his innovation during the first ten years of his tenure. However he now has to be condemned for his dictatorial arrogance that has blighted the club over the last five seasons. He has destroyed part of his own legacy, aided and abetted by Stan Kroenke. If Kroenke remains as the club’s owner then I believe that we may not appoint the calibre of new manager that will give us the real Champions League success that we crave.

    The new manager will need to spend the club’s money, as this would require Kroenke having to invest in The Arsenal. I can’t see Kroenke putting in that kind of money. The chatter about Massimiliano Allegri’s prospective appointment when Wenger leaves seems hopeful. He is a protégé of Antonio Conte and having an Italian mindset will be crucial to aid our defensive frailties. However it seems that it will be a short tenure as in 2012, Allegri stated that he intends to coach for only 10 more years and plans to retire at the age of 55 due to the fact that coaching contains a high level of stress and anxiety. He also said that he hopes to coach the Italian national side before he retires. This clearly would not leave much time to manage The Arsenal. Media reports suggest that he has already entered into a pre-contractual agreement with the club.

    If you look at the history of our great club, Arsenal FC knew the importance of buying the best players who would improve the chances of collecting honours. Arsenal used to regularly break transfer records, but now we can only stand on the sidelines as billionaires change the face of football for the worse. Recall that Chelsea had no history until Abramovich arrived. Manchester City similarly bought success with the same philosophy. So forget about Wenger, and even if Allegri arrives at the club in the summer, there is no prospect of Arsenal sitting at the top table of football clubs, whose eligibility is measured by the number of Champions League successes. If Arsenal is not to decline and suffer a period in the wilderness, then we have to turn up the heat on Stan Kroenke. He has shown no desire to intervene, so he is not fit to be our owner.

  • ARSENAL 13

    @tom,

    Not would, we did get beat. And if the game was refereed fairly, the result could’ve been different.

    I probably will not stop watching ARSENAL. But would be ashamed to call it a greatest comeback victory ever. Dishonesty is never great…..

  • Nitram

    jai

    “If Arsenal is not to decline and suffer a period in the wilderness, then we have to turn up the heat on Stan Kreonke”

    You seem to be making the assumption everyone wants the club funded by a ‘sugar daddy’.

    I for one do not.

    And surely, given the amount of disenchantment you seem to feel towards Arsenal and Wenger, you consider we already are in the “wilderness”, or did I miss something in the tone of your post?

    I have absolutely no doubt that Both Chelsea and Manchester City fans enjoy there success, but they are welcome to it.

    My absolute belief is that there trophies are worthless.

    I get constant derision from the Chelsea fans I know for saying that, with accusations of jealousy and bitterness, but I can assure you . Despite our trials and tribulations I am deeply proud of my football Club and am 100% behind there self sustaining business model. I understand how incredibly difficult it is to out perform clubs with such superior wealth, but I can live with that.

    I find it much more difficult to live with the abuse my Club and manager receive, but that’s love for you.

    But back to my point, if it was Evertons door at which RA arrived, then it would be they and not Chelsea that would of been transformed into a championship winning side.

    If it had been Spurs door at which the Abu Dhabi United Group had arrived then it would be them whom where turned into a title winning side.

    Would you deny that?

    I suggest not, so where is the glory or achievement in that, when literally ANY club with those finances would win what they have?

    No, not for me thanks, but everyone to there own I suppose.

  • Nitram

    Corr:

    I get constant derision from the Chelsea fans I know for saying that, with accusations of jealousy and bitterness, but I can assure you…..that that is far from the case .

  • Mandy Dodd

    Jai, please stop this tactic of putting a paragraph or two of your own words, than an uncredited cut and paste from online Gooner.
    If people want to read Online Gooner, I am sure they are perfectly able to find it

  • Myron C.

    As an Arsenal fan from the US, I can assure you that what attracted me to Arsenal was their (1) fair play and (2) success. That’s also what continues to keep me a fan. Success is wonderful, but not at the expense of cheating.

    If you watch many EPL and European Football matches today, you see (largely) one continuous stream of deception, cheating, exaggeration and stretching of the rules. Every throw-in, contact between players, every time the ball goes over the line players are trying to deceive the referee causing him to give the decision their team’s way. No matter how clear it is that the real (fair) decision should go the other way. This to me is destroying football as a source of satisfying entertainment.

    Arsenal do not play this way. They adhere to the rules (most of the time, there are exceptions, involving individual players) and try to play the game according to the rules. I personally cannot support a team who’s strategy is to bully their way through an opposing team or deceive the referee and gain an advantage.

    I will always support a team that recognizes the value of sportsmanship and fair play. If a team cannot win fairly, then of what value is the win? Really? I hope that Arsenal never gives up their ‘Arsenal way’ winning, but winning fairly. I believe that this is what Arsene Wenger is all about and I personally place great value on that ethic.

  • Menace

    tom – the difference between you & Arsenal 13 is class. Arsenal 13 has class you on the other hand are a classless glory hunter devoid of anything sporting. ossasa is in a similar class to you. He also admires the nasty tackle & the destruction of sport through cheating like the Suarez, Lewandowski & Robben dives.

    I have seen the effects of classless change in sport. Just watch hockey in the 1960s & watch it today. The European could not cope with the brilliance of the Asian wrist work with the hockey stick so they changed the rules & the game to suit their physique & physical superiority. They have been successful thus far but the Asians are adapting to the physical & gradually coming back – before the rules change again………

  • Hunter13

    Hehe well said. I have heard claude and mr hudson claim on live television 4 years ago that theyre done and wont come back….ehhm.

    you dont like it stay home, dont buy shit..its not taxes , nothing mandatory.

    But its the fear of missing out when it all clicks..thats why they wont give a way their tickets or stick to their word. wheres my bayern i was promised…all it takes is a stadium and 10 year patience..i read so in the ‘how to become elite football club for dummies’

    and after reading this paragraph i ahve decided i can not take arsenal fans seriously anymore. such delusion :

    ‘This is a cruel lie and airbrushes out the real historical facts of Arsenal’s dominance in top flight English football in past decades which was “The Arsenal Way” and it’s subsequent success was borne out of the family ownership of Arsenal football club by true fans for fans, and having visionaries like Herbert Chapman.

    what arsenal way? lol ..with 4 champion titles in 4 decades (53,71,89, 91) ?? big my ass…

    or the latest graham revisionism ..as if tony adams was matthias samemr and baresi in disguise… get real please a bunch of cloggers going for the 1-0? the arsenal way? the only one who gave any ‘wy’ to arsenal is wenger.

    strong economy, upgrade in facilities multi million global fan base…share prices rising 1000% (maybe more)… and in all that 3 titles in one decade plus the solitary champions leageu final and f.a cups

    when the hell did arsenal enjoy a healthier period? losers with your bullshit nostalgia…

  • Hunter13

    picture this….. justin bieber lecturing the pink floyd in bass synthesizers.

    thats how i feel when i see various ‘gurus’ of football management in sofa tvs like alan shearer and pub-troll channels ‘criticising’ Le Boss

    waters wtf you doing man..thats a crap song you cant make music no more get out …let me show you…love/justin

  • Hunter, why you slashing off Tony Adams……

  • Is this blog must be funded by Arsene. Sanchez gives it all on the pitch, we all know what side John Cross breads buttered on, still the ministry of lies has its work to do.

    BTW, afternoon Menace, at what point do we finally get rid of a failing manager?

  • Hunter13

    not slagging my friend..but equally cant agree to this re-writing of history and perceptions…

    why are you slagging off Arsene Wenger? did he steal your food or something?

  • Hunter, no but he’s ruining my football team, managers come and go, so what, he’s been well rewarded. Move on, or is Arsene more important than the club?

  • tom

    Menace
    I suggest you stick to watching asian hockey from your asian home.You will most definitely have more of an understanding of that game than the nonesense you spout on here about the game of football.You are a bully who will back your cult members on here but outside your little bubble would be laughed at for the fool you are .At least in india nobody will be able to understand your inane ramblings .Goodnight.
    Watch me either get banned or put in moderation for going against U.A s bullyboy!!

  • Hunter13

    ruining your football team? such drama…can you please clarify what you mean ? because as per historical records i dont see any other period better than the last 20 years…

    sorry he cant put you no.1 when owners ask him to run it like a business …he keeps you at no.2 no.3 no. 4…hang him…he is ruining your team obviously

    for this club..the way its set up and in this particular moment in time yes he is very important to the club structures and organisation.

    sack him all you want but i will be the first to taunt you later when youre fighting with everton for 7th and dont moan about it please because you will have deserved it with your hubris.

  • porter

    And then came the second half of his tenure.– Also remember how the traditional families sold out and pocketed the Yankee dollar.Didn’t reinvest took the money and ran .Albeit not so far as they kept,their feet on the boarroom carpet.Wenger’s early period was exceptional as was Graham’s but listening to the same rhetoric for so long is doomed to fail just ask the sales forces of the myriad of ex market leaders that have fallen by the wayside.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Hunter13,
    some very wise comments. Thank you.

  • Hunter your comments suggest you care more about Arsene than Arsenal, why wouldn’t you want a new manager to succeed. Taunt me if the next manager fails, why, will you not be supporting Arsenal after Wenger?

  • Zuruvi

    Tony said, “that level of money simply isn’t available to Arsenal.”

    This is by choice. Our two main shareholders have jointly almost twice the riches of Chelsea’s Abramovitch.

    The Arsenal board has chosen a financial model which makes it very difficult to get the top talent. And it seems Wenger has agreed to this model.
    The consequence is we have players that are very average and the team fails to compete in the big matches.
    It’s really sad to see Arsenal being made into a joke.
    It’s sad that our great manager is now the subject of silly jokes.
    Arsenal has indeed been reduced to a joke.
    And it hurts me when I see Wenger’s pained face after these embarrassing defeats. He deserves better. Maybe if we had BOUGHT better players we wouldn’t be in this turmoil because we all know Wenger is a brilliant manager.

  • Zuruvi

    Tony said, “that level of money simply isn’t available to Arsenal.”

    This is by choice. Our two main shareholders have jointly almost twice the riches of Chelsea’s Abramovitch.

    The Arsenal board has chosen a financial model which makes it very difficult to get the top talent. And it seems Wenger has agreed to this model.
    The consequence is we have players that are very average and the team fails to compete in the big matches.
    It’s really sad to see Arsenal being made into a joke.
    It’s sad that our great manager is now the subject of silly jokes.
    Arsenal has indeed been reduced to a joke.
    And it hurts me when I see Wenger’s pained face after these embarrassing defeats. He deserves better. Maybe if we had BOUGHT better players we wouldn’t be in this turmoil because we all know Wenger is a brilliant manager.

  • Zuruvi

    Anyone who thinks the tide against Wenger is failing might just be wrong.
    I love Arsene Wenger but I am not blind to what is happening.
    It may have taken 7 years but the haters seem to have gathered a strong momentum now. The weakness (in terms of skill) of our players relative to the other big teams results in Arsenal getting walloped too frequently and this is giving the haters some tailwind.
    We are in trouble guys. Our manager is under fire.
    Unfortunately, the Arsenal board and some fans have favoured this financial strategy of keeping lots of money in the bank and not buying more players of the calibre of Alexis or Harzard or top, top strikers. A top chef buys the best ingredients to make a quality plate of food. Wenger is a top manager if he has top quality players he will beat Bayern, he will win the league, he will compete better in Europe.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    The future is this ?

    Young Trump Girl: “We’re going to build a wall, and Mexico will pay for it.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gZro-uEJ48

  • Hunter13

    correct Zuruvi. the owners have chosen to run it like a business. obviously under this parameter arsenal can not expect to be the equals of a bayern or a barca… we are one click below certainly, maybe two…before wenger though we were 7-10 clicks below.

    from losing 5-2 from spartacs..we lose 5-1 to bayerns…

    and even the 5-1 bayern loses …are plasmatic and not an actual reflection…

    if you want the biggest mistake was not keeping liutenandts ..but then they couldnt pay vieiera 150k a week when repaying a stadium… its a tough one.

    imo arsenal was always going to struggle after moving grounds…10-15 years minimum… and imo if the toughest transition in club histroy resulted in ‘only’ getting top4…i can accept it. they have russians and arabs here pumping billions and ours ask wenger to squeeze juice from rocks.

    others get out of top4 without having stadiums to repay…

  • Menace

    Hunter13 – The wobs don’t care about stadia or infrastructure. ‘Where are the trophies?’ they scream. They have no sense of business or commerce. Theirs is the banter in the pubs where at the moment they are absolutely screwed with ’10 -2 & SAME OLD ARSENAL’. They do not have the intelligence to ask who finished above them last year or who is above them this year; & if not above them how much better are they in terms of points, history or any of the other measures. It is time to realise that the only measure is financial. The whole damned game is measured by financial position. Trophies are secondary or primary if the owners subscribe to corruption with oil wealth.

    The coaching needs to be with a martial arts leaning rather than football. How to destroy you opponent with sleight of limb & retain the ball! Or perhaps retain the big ball & damage the two small ones…..

  • Hisham

    Why do I support the Arsenal? I have been since the 1960s. My decision then was the fact that it was near where my grandmother stayed (Hempstead) and I liked the name!

    Since then I grew to love the team, the club, its history. It was like an irreversible marriage. I’ve been through the emotional highs and lows with this club. It forms part of the way I lead my life. Got the wife and kids to be Gooners too. It’s who we are. Players and managers come and go. Shareholders too. But I’m still a Gooner. This is my life; the way I choose it.

  • Hunter13

    haha… business and commerce sense? they cant even write their names…..

    my analogy is apt…justin biebers telling the floyd what music is all about…

    comedy.

    wenger should sign, board to back him ..and the 200 morons who dont like it to have their money refunded and get them the fuck out of our stadium.

  • Menace

    I’m with you Hunter13 all the way!!

  • Nitram

    Zuruvi

    “And it hurts me when I see Wenger’s pained face after these embarrassing defeats.”

    I really am getting fed up with this ’embarrassment’ crap.

    It’s only ’embarrassing’ if you want it to be ’embarrassing.

    As I pointed out on the Alexis thread:

    -Spurs league performances over the last 50 years?

    Now that’s embarrassing. But I’ve never heard it called that.

    -Spurs performances in the far easier Europa League competition?

    Now that’s embarrassing. But I’ve never heard it called that.

    -Liverpool’s league performances over the last near 30 years?

    Now that’s embarrassing. But I’ve never heard it called that.

    -Man United spending over the last 5 years in excess of £352 Million (That’s over £70 Million per season) net, to regress to league finishes of 7th 4th and 5th?

    Now that’s embarrassing. But I’ve never heard it called that.

    -Man City spending over the last 5 years in excess of £400 Million (That’s over £80 Million per season) net, basically in an effort to win the CL, when the fact is the closest they’ve managed is one semi final. The previous 4 seasons they exited in the round of 16 twice, and twice at the group stage.

    Now that’s embarrassing. But I’ve never heard it called that.

    Now lets have a look at what’s been happening spend and trophy wise these last 5years:

    MAN CITY.

    Net spend £402 Million or £80+ per season.

    Won: 1 PL, 2 LC’s, 1 CS’s.

    Last 4 League finishes: 2-1-2-4: This season? Top 4 likely.

    MAN UTD

    Net spend £352 Million or £70+ per season.

    Won: 1 PL, 1 FAC, 2 CS’s,

    League finishes: 1-7-4-5: This season? Top 4 possible.

    ARSENAL

    Net spend £206 Million or £40+ per season.

    Won: 2 FAC’s, 2 CS’s

    League finishes: 4-4-3-2: This season? Top 4 possible.

    CHELSEA

    Net spend £186 Million or £37+ per season.

    Won: 1 PL, 1 LC, 1 EC.

    League finishes: 3-3-1-10: This season? Likely Champions.

    Okay, some points to note:

    First the spending.

    Despite us spending more we still have a net spend about 50% that of Man City.

    Despite us spending more we still have a net spend about 60% that of Man United.

    Chelsea on the face of it have cut back on there spending, and with a net spend of £186 Million have actually spent £20 Million less than us. But lets not forget that that £186 million is building on a net spend of £135 Million over the previous 5 seasons. A period over which Arsenal actually achieved a £30 Million net profit.

    Also of course, City and United’s last 5 years spending is on top of similar amounts spent over the previous 5 seasons.

    What this shows is that despite our relative increase in spending we are still not in the same league as those 3, and are actually playing a massive game of catch up, in which those 3 have at least a one lap head start, and we have one hand tied behind our back.

    So given the still massive difference in financial power, what the figures above show is that our over all performance over the last 5 years stacks up pretty well, when compared to the 3 financial juggernauts whom against we are always judged, despite still not being anywhere near in the same financial league.

    And yes I know all about Leicester City, but I think events this year have only gone to confirm the utter freak that that was.

    As a foot note I also feel it’s only fair to mention Spurs. Over the last 5 years there net spend is just £200,000. Personally I think they are actually punching above there weight in the PL, and despite there poor European and domestic cup performances, that has to be acknowledged. But having said that, the point is they still haven’t won anything, which, going on how we where judged when spending those levels of money, means they are still shit. Oh well, sorry lads, I still believe you are doing very well and could well finish runners up.

    Anyway, all that was to make a point about whether or not we are ’embarrassing’.

    Well if we are then so are so many others.

    But you’ll never hear it from the media. You’ll never hear it from there own ex players. You’ll seldom hear it from there fans, at least not in the vitriolic, abusive and never ending way we do.

    The media and our ex players make me sick, but it’s our own fans who have turned on one of, if not the greatest manager we have ever had, in such a disgraceful way.

    Contempt is probably the politest way to describe how I feel about them.

  • Nitram

    “I bet you stopped watching the Arsenal when Pires and Eboue regularly dived for penaltys.”

    Specifically:

    “……Pires and Eboue regularly dived for penalties”

    I’m still waiting for evidence of this.

    Not holding my breath because making statements without any evidence to back it up is what some people are good at.

  • Not afraid gunner

    Again, you have wrongly assumed that the club needs intervention to succeed. It does not. The club can live within her means and be successful. That us where a sound manager comes in. That manager is clearly not Wenger.

    You can’t blame Kronke when our wage bill is not far off from City or Chelsea.It’s the manager, no one else, Mr.

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