By Bulldog Drummond
And thus slowly does the world wake up. Even the Telegraph now has a graphic that just how much of a long ball team Leicester is. I know Untold will come back to that later, but it is remarkable just how long it has taken for the media to catch up on what we are seeing.
The problem of course is that clubs copy clubs – indeed there are some Arsenal fans who would like it if Arsenal copied Leicester’s long ball tactics just as there are many that would scoff when Mr Wenger said in his press conference this week, “That Carroll stays on the pitch is absolutely scandalous.”
Just to give the full comment, he said, “The first foul [that was the horror show on Laurent Koscielny] was a straight red. Watch it 10 times: it’s unbelievable he stays on the pitch, but nobody speaks about that. [Actually Mr W, I think we did quite a bit, but I get your point]. In the second half he makes three fouls without getting a second yellow. If you’re allowed absolutely everything on the football pitch, it’s easy to be physical because you’re not punished.”
And so we today we will have another nasty piece of work: Adebayor, whose stamp on the face of RVP you may recall. Another sending off after 18 minutes would be pretty much par for the course.
But he will start today, because that is the sort of thing Crystal Palace do. For we not only have the entity known as Adebayor but also the curious case of the Pardew, the man of whom even the arch villain Sir Alex F Word said, “Alan Pardew is the worst at haranguing referees with his whole staff every week”.
But that of course is just the start of it. As he himself said, putting a legal exposition of what his teams do to the press,“We will put pressure on their centre-halves every opportunity we have.”
Pardew, let us never forget, was the man who was incredibly lucky only to get a three-game total stadium ban followed by a four-match touchline ban after he head butted Hull City’s David Meyler. That was just over two years ago, just after a two match ban for pushing an assistant referee. It might be a good idea to keep an eye on him, as well as on the players who receive instructions from him. Safety gear for those near him might be advisable.
Palace are on a bit of an upturn having got more points in the last three games than they managed to stack up in the whole of the previous 13. In the last six they have lost to Liverpool!, lost to Leicester, drawn with West Ham, beaten Norwich and drawn with Everton in their last six.
They will come out and play defensive, defensive, defensive football, seeking a long ball break. And indeed as with Wimbledon when they were in the top division, everyone will ignore the impact Leicester’s style is starting to have on other clubs – until it is too late.
“I don’t think you can pretend to be a big club and say we only want to defend,” said Mr Wenger developing his press conference theme. “We have that responsibility and we have to stand up for that and continue to develop the quality of our game. It doesn’t mean we have to change our style. It means we have to be better in the style we play.
“As long as the team sits back and waits for you to come out and you do not score they never come out. The defensive quality of the teams has become more efficient. Look at Manchester City , they take the game the opponent. So do Chelsea , but they all drop points by doing that. When we felt we were less under pressure we dropped more points against teams in the second half of the table than the top half.”
On the injury front we have Santi Caz and the Ox out of it. Wilshere and Rosicky are still making their way back to fitness. Here is the table from Physioroom, just for journalists who still insist that Arsenal have more injuries than everyone else.
| # | TEAM | TOTAL INJURIES |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Everton | 7 |
| 2 | Newcastle United | 7 |
| 3 | Stoke City | 7 |
| 4 | Bournemouth | 6 |
| 5 | Crystal Palace | 6 |
| 6 | Liverpool | 6 |
| 7 | Manchester United | 5 |
| 8 | Chelsea | 4 |
| 9 | Manchester City | 3 |
| 10 | Southampton | 3 |
| 11 | Tottenham Hotspur | 3 |
| 12 | West Bromwich Albion | 3 |
| 13 | West Ham United | 3 |
| 14 | Arsenal | 2 |
| 15 | Aston Villa | 2 |
| 16 | Norwich City | 2 |
| 17 | Watford | 2 |
| 18 | Leicester City | 0 |
| 19 | Sunderland | 0 |
| 20 | Swansea City | 0 |
Arsenal discipline record is 35 yellows and four reds. Palace have 52 yellows and two reds.
We have won 10 and lost one of the 13 Premier League games against Crystal Palace, including winning the last six in a row but we have won none of the three London derbies at home in the Premier League this season (which is why media attention has drifted away from games between the top four or top six and instead suddenly developed an interest in London matches).
But since that is now where they are, we can say Crystal Palace have taken fewer points in London derbies than any other London team. And they have won none of the last seven away league games. A defeat today for Palace will mean that Arsenal have won 500 league games in the PL. Only Man U have won more.
The Whoscored.com forecasts are…
- Arsenal will score a long shot
- Arsenal will score as a result of a through ball
- Crystal Palace will be shown a high number of card
- Crystal Palace will stray offside often
- Arsenal will dominate possession
In terms of our top players this season we have Ozil on 7.67, Alexis on 7.63 and Koscielny on 7.46. The top Palace player is Cabaye on 7.28. Their top assistant is Delaney on 3, along with Puncheon and Wickham.
——–
- We cannot have a situation like the Summer of 2015
- Arsenal v Crystal Palace Sunday 17 April 2016 – The Match Officials. Arsenal achieve the 1 in 2 billion chance.
- Are Arsenal fans the only fans who are endlessly miserable? It seems not.
- PGMO admits Untold Arsenal was right
- Forget the training and the preparation. Get these two things right and you will win the league.
Untold Arsenal has published five books on Arsenal – all are available as paperback and three are now available on Kindle. The books are
- The Arsenal Yankee by Danny Karbassiyoon with a foreword by Arsene Wenger.
- Arsenal: the long sleep 1953 – 1970; a view from the terrace. By John Sowman with an introduction by Bob Wilson.
- Woolwich Arsenal: The club that changed football. By Tony Attwood, Andy Kelly and Mark Andrews.
- Making the Arsenal: a novel by Tony Attwood.
- The Crowd at Woolwich Arsenal by Mark Andrews.
You can find details of all five on our new Arsenal Books page
Emirates victory 500! That will be a welcome milestone achieved. As you say, Palace aren’t in the greatest form so I’d expect a comfortable win. They’ll bring a good support, so keep them quiet with a couple of early goals.
Just a warning: as I have a board meeting from my supporters club I will not be at home to see the match but will watch it in the pub with my fellow board members. But alas no possibility to do my live match report of course.
When I was in the TV studio the Dutch pundit Jan Mulder was absolutely no fan of Leicester and because of the way they played. But he is Dutch and they tend to find it important that you play football based on skill and passing.
Really glad to hear Wenger’s take on Carroll. As per usual, he concisely got to the heart of it.
I’ve been following football/ Arsenal news as much as ever (too much) this week, and not heard a word of that until now.
Don’t want to go too over the top but I find it pretty hideous to see how reality can be denied in such a fashion and how over time that can warp minds.
I’d guess that by now vast numbers of people can look at the Carroll challenge or similar against our players and not see a red, while against any other teams players, let alone their own, they would be in little doubt that it is a red. Some of our own damn fans are the same.
When my dissatisfaction with these refs is at its worst, it feels like our situation is a bit like that of a boxer with a hand tied behind his back facing an opponent with loaded gloves.
Onto the football. It’s not that bad- Rileyball- after all, apart from when it is, and more often than not the crap we have to put up with isn’t fatal within a game.
Meanwhile, I’ll be left wondering till the end of my days how Wenger can put up with essentially the same thing happening endlessly for a decade without being driven away in disgust and while, publicly at least, defending referees and their integrity.
Just a reminder that the Palace game this afternoon is the second game featuring an Arsenal team.. I’m off to Borehamwood in a few minutes for the Ladies FA Cup semi final against Sunderland ladies which kicks off at 14:00. My son is going to the Palace game.
Not sure if there is any TV coverage of the ladies. Live Twitter updates via the Arsenal Twitter account, link via the .com home page
I’ll try and post updates at intervals.
COYLG and COYG
Bit childish but, after winding myself up thinking about last week’s game, couldn’t resist a little post on The mail’s website on a Carroll (not) for England article.
‘Silly decision. Unplayable in the air and continental defenders will hate an early ankle smasher and solid forearm to the chops. Could easily lead to a defender giving him a push afterwards and getting a deserved sending off for it. Blew it a bit by toning down his aggression against Utd so much, but Roy should at least watch him in the remaining games to see if he can ramp up the physicality again.’
Andrew,
A timely reminder that Arsenal FC doesn’t only consist of the male sexual grouping.
In fact, our fair ones seem to do better year by year.
And not only in the kitchen. 😉
Nicky,
Only a few years ago our Ladies were dominant domestically on the football field. The last couple we have been behind Chelsea and City who beat us becoming fully professional. This season I don’t think there is much between those two and us. Sunderland who we play today and Liverpool are the two teams closest to us. An interesting season between now and November.
Permit me Mr. Drummond to make a few changes to your starts which I believe may not be too different from that of the Boss.
Here they are:
Ospina.
BellerinDeAbreuKoscielnyMonreal.
ElnenyCoquelin.
AlexisOzilIwobi.
Walcott.
Bench:
CechChambersRhino’GibbsFlaminiGiroudCampbell.
These are the starts and bench that will beat C Palace this afternoon at the Ems on these my bellow 11 conditions even if the Boss starts a different starts from yours and mine.
Kun Aguero took Chelsea by the neck late yesterday and put them to the sword. Thus, making Man City to leapfrogged Arsenal in the table. But thank God, we have a game in hand today to leapfrog them too.
Consequently, the Gunners MUST be very careful not to profligate in front of Crystal Palace goalmouth this afternoon.
The Gunners MUST play to hit the back of the net of Palace’s goalkeeper severally. The Gunners should not play to the gallery, shoot wide off the target, shoot over the bar, hit the side netting, miss narrowly to the right or to the left sides of the goal, miss a sitter, miss a Pen, hit the woodwork, fail to pass the ball in time in front of goal, fail to release their shots in time in front of goal and not shoot to Palace goalie’s hands to save easily. Needles should I say the Gunners should not be caught in off-side positions.
AFC 4-0 CPFC:@full-time 90m +.
@SamuelAkinsolaAdebosin
I would be very surprised if Walcott starts. I also think Cech will be back in the team.
Samuel,
Dean took great care yesterday to ensure that City retained all 11 players on the pitch and took the easy and obvious chance to send off Courtois. It looked to me like one of the City goals was offside from the MOTD highlights.
I am still expecting rotten decision making this afternoon to ensure that Spurs gain a further two or three points advantage. Dean is fourth official both today and tomorrow evening to Spurs. Don’t be surprised at another referee induced draw this afternoon, no guarantee of a win I’m afraid.
Normally i would not even be worried of the game vs Cryatal Palace, but things are not normal at all.
We have no protection against refs except to play so good that their attempts become futile. Sadly it seems to be hit and miss when Arsenal plays supremely well nowadays.
Would love a goal feast from Arsenal today, as our GD is pityful(for Arsenal) this season.
Walcott should not start. This would be bad for the players who are playing well.
I was thinking what will happen to the Leicester fans next year. Surely the PGMO will not be on there side next time.From champions to bottom table side again.
You read it first here.
Rich
I had posted the below after 9am on another thread before seeing this article, but think it supports what Wenger and you say and fits here nicely;
“AKBs, like Arsenal players, are finding there’s no room for error. We see players from other teams kicking, tripping, elbowing or whatever else, and still they stay on the pitch (Andy Carroll being the most recent example). It barely gets a mention in the media, if at all. But should an Arsenal player commit a simple offence such as a shirt tug and not get punished for it, there is a huge uproar up and down the land, and the ref might even get ‘punished’ for it. The Coq incident is a good example of this in recent times. But one that probably stands out for me was the incident involving Sagna and Matt Jarvis when we played w/ham at the end of 2013/14 season. Sagna made very minimal contact and Jarvis stayed on his feet, but what follows in the media was staggering. Jarvis was blasted all round for not diving, please note they were unashamedly using the words ‘not diving’, coz that’s what it would have been; the contact was that minimal. G Neville even sarcastically said Jarvis would get a pat on the back from his nan when he got home, instead of winning his team a penalty. The point here is the whole nation united to condone one of the worst things blighting our game; diving, simply because it would have undone Arsenal. It was OK to dive, so long as it’s against Arsenal….”
Andrew,
I think I made a post last week that once first and second places are more or less settled, we will start seeing increased fortunes for City with regards to refereeing for them. I went on to say I expected to see city get a penalty or two between last week and end of season, while we won’t get any. And going by what you say went on yesterday this is what’s happening now.
Pgmol machinations are so bloody obvious that for anyone to fail to see this i have no doubt they’ll either be very thick or have their own agenda. As pointed earlier on other threads, dean being given roles to play in three kry matches this weekend just shows the pgmob aren’t done yet, there’s still more influencing and reshuffling of league positions ahead.
I also want to point out, while searching for any evidence to show there had been a ‘flood of complaints’ as reported by the media which resulted in Friend being switched from the Stoke fixture with spurs, I happened to come across a spuds forum. And they were rejoicing at the news of the switch, and a few even went on to say the pgmob could have gone one better and appoint dean to do all their remaining five games! They made it absolutely clear dean is to them what Webb was to Utd.
So as Finsbury said, that reassignment may have been made to look as an attempt to eliminate a potential conflict of interest in a key game (a notion which was shot down by the appointment of taylor to do a utd game, yet again, yesterday in a do or die encounter for Villa – a result that relegated villa) when really the idea was to ensure spurs don’t drop points and risk being overtaken by some clubs who shall remain nameless. As Menace says, Riley should be jailed for impersonating an official 🙂
P/s I didn’t find any evidence suggesting there had been a huge outcry that resulted in Friend being moved.
Correction; just read that Taylor was removed from the Utd game on Friday following pressure after the Friend fiasco (I didn’t watch so was unaware of the change). It now seems Everton also want him removed from their FA cup semi final. The question now is when they make these appointments initially, wouldn’t the responsible people be aware of this?
Anyway, it seems a good thing that the re-appointment of friend opened a can of worms. We should also complain if Taylor or Mason is made ref for our visit to City
Al
Excellent post. Strongly agree.
Slim pickings in terms of journalists or commentators who don’t relish seeing us lose.
Pretty shocking that an ex-Spud ,Jenas, seems to be one of the most fair-minded out there in general.
Interesting to see him clash somewhat with Trevor Sinclair on Motd last night. Sinclair argued, brainlessly, that football was in danger of ceasing to be a contact sport if you penalise challenges like Wisdom’s for the pen. Pure nonsense and Jenas showed him up well for it.
Jenas is very much in the minority in arguing well, sensibly and, it seems, fairly.
Andrew Crenshaw
You are kidding ? Man city needed no help at all to beat Chelsea you can’t be serious saying they won because of the ref ?
Al
Are you saying that the pen given against Chelsea was not a pen but the ref was cheating ?
@ Gooner S and @ A Crawshaw.
The last time Walcott played at the Ems in the League, he scored off Campbell’s assist in the Watford game. The duo should be played today for a repeat performance of their feast against still relegation threatened Palace who may fight with nails and tooth in this macth to unlikely get at least a point.
Arsenal can play this afternoon to score 4 undisputable goals and not cnncede any to ovecome Mike Dean’s anti-Arsenal whispering to the ears of the 3 match officials who’ll officiate our today’s match against Palace.
I’ve comeback on the site to follow live, the Leicester vs West Ham match and be commentting on it as the game progresses. The match is like the Normandy D-Day landing story to me. But it’s Leicester 1-0 West Ham after 43′. I hope West Ham will become traitors.
We are approaching half time in the ladies game (I slept in). The roster:
XI: van Veenendaal, Mitchell, Stoney, Losada, Pablos Sanchon, Nobbs, Carter, Corredera, Janssen, Rose, cen de Donk
Beach: Byrne, Williams, Smith, Williamson, McCabe
No score yet.
COYLG!
Beautiful Vardy dive
I just said a moment ago hope vardy gets another yellow, and wow, he did. 🙂
haha
Asleep at the wheel in the Ladies game. We are either in extra time, or at half time. Not long ago, we scored to lead 1-0. The entry after that (in the twit feed) is:
> It’s been a great response from the home side since going down to 10. 1-0. 43′
Nowhere in the twit feed, did they say anything about a second yellow or a red that I can see.
Oh well, hoping for the win.
COYLG!
Come on WH, dont waste this chance!
Funny you say that Al and out petition to remove a bellend of a ref goes unnoticed?!
WRT playing a player short with the Ladies. The only “strangeness” in the twit feed, is the mentioning that Williamson came on for Losada at 35 minutes. Which is rather early for a substitution. No mention of injury. So, whatever this card incident was, it was before 35 minutes.
Maybe Andrew can fill us in later?
I do wish Arsenal.com would go back to putting in the link to the Ladies twit feed for the games. It is a little annoying to have to go to Google to get it (only one of my computers is allowed to receive twitter).
COYLG!
Arsenal ladies one up at half time but down to ten players. Emma Mitchell sent off for two yellow cards in quick succession. The first was very harsh, the second a little tug on an opponents shirt an open invitation for the referee which was duly taken. The goal came in the 39 th minute Danielle van de Donk bundling the ball over the line from a couple of yards following a cross from the left.
COYLG
Gord,
The sending off was in min32 or thereabouts. Referee allowing Sunderland more leeway than Arsenal – no surprise there. A big cheer in the stands to an announcement that Vardy had a straight red and three match ban!
Thanks for the report Andrew.
Come on WHam!
COYLG!
Yeaaaah
O man i’m cheering a WH goal.
Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
So, it had only taken 30 odd games….yeah 1-2 West Ham…for people to figure out the cheating Leicester team.
Dan Carter makes it two nil to the Arsenal
It’s like watching professional wrestling on ever corner.
I meant to write, I hope West Ham will not become traitors. But if at the end of this game, West Ham failed to equalise or even beat 10 man West Ham, one may be tempted to say, West Ham deliberately played to become traitors to betray Arsenal.
@87minutes, it’s Leicester 1-1 West Ham. I think West Ham should go ahead and take all 3 points to sink Leicester.
fuck Leicester penalty…
After public pressure as to why decisions always in favour of Leicester, today the pgmo tries to make amend
The fix is still on…VERY dodgy penalty
GoingGoingGooner
Very dodgy indeed.
At long last, it’s hilarious! Leicester 1-2 West Ham. I don’t care if Vardy sending off is responsible for this Leicester lose. Afterall, Mertesacker or should I say Rhinosacker was sent off at the Ems in Chelsea match and we lost 0-1.
LCFC’s penalty differential remains an outlier given the overall drop in penalties awarded this season (so far, can we except a late flourish?) relative to the past ten years. In other words: remarkable.
Tom Quinn
You missing the point. I didn’t watch City (nor any football at all this weekend) so I couldn’t tell you if they were helped or not. But I was pointing out something I said last week that city will start getting penalties again, whether deserved or not is another matter. Maybe yesterday’s penalty was a penalty indeed, but the pgmob rep wouldn’t have given it under different circumstances; i.e. say City were still threatening to pip the Leicester or Tottenham to the title.
Also there’s mention of an offside goal being allowed to stand. Again, they would not be getting those should the scenario above be prevailing. And how can we discount the offside goal swinging momentum city’s way anyway. The point is, refereeing decisions in the PL seem to favour certain agendas and are thus predictable.
2-2. And it wasn’t a straight red for vardy. It’s 2 yellows, the second for a dive
worst refereeing ever?
Attendance for the ladies game was announced, 902. And we know the 2 are Andrew and his wife. So, 900 others there. Nicky is one of them?
Thank you to all 902!
COYLG!
Al_The_Gunner
no worse than other times, that’s PL reffing, always with the agenda.
My God! Leicester have come back to draw 2-2 @ 90’+5 through Ulloa. One of their last season top scorer. But the big question is, are West Ham sleeping to have allowed him to equalised?
Let’s focus now on own match of today and let the Gunners collect all 3 points to keep our title hopes alive.
Game ver here three nil Farah Williams penalty and Sunderland down to ten. No way we are losing this one now. We are going to Wembley. Now it’s four nil!
Leicester may appeal vardy’s sending off
Dodgy? Dennis Skinner got ejected from the house for calling the PM dodgy Dave. It was a standard PGMO CHEAT for Leicester.
Discussion of ref moss’s performance in the studio. Verdict: liecester was hard done by. Penalty against them debatable, vardy’s sending off wrong. Liecester penalty too soft, the ref trying to atone for not calling a penalty on their behalf when huth was felled by ogbonna.
My verdict: atrocious referring all round.
We want six rings out here after Nobbs makes it five nil in the 86 th minute. Danielle van de Donk duly obliged to complete here hat trick!
Al
Well if you watched the game be easy to see mate and I don’t see your point at all it was a pen and was given but Chelsea were were well beaten by that stage like I say watch the game no ref help given or required man city won because they deserved to
Mature post match comments by ranieri
Congratulations to the Ladies, 6-0 (more?). I gather Dannielle Carter was announced WOM.
COYLG!
@tom
Totally agree. Ref spot on with courtois red. No debate
Injury time here at Borehamwood Wood and we are now SEVEN nil up. Danielle Carter with her second of the game. That’s it game over. Now for Wembley on the 15th May!
I gather our WOM has scored in extra time! 7-0!
We’re off to Wemberley. Can a person hope for 10k fans for that?
COYLG!
What a total and utter disgrace to English football that Leicester v West Ham game truly was. I feel as though I’m watching right in front of my eye’s the last stages of the English game becoming a laughing stock around the world.
The worst of it is I knew with that feeling you get that you can’t shake of that Leicester would get a point. Never in a million bloody years was that a pen but oh how happy the ref was to get that chance to blow that whistle to even things things up.
I really don’t know weather to laugh or cry. It’s so blaent and in your face and what I hate most of all is the fact that they don’t care. Until the PMGO are outed for what they really are along with the men and women who are raking in billions on the back of a sport that was once along time ago noble, then we as supporters count for absolutely nothing no matter how much we shout and sing and are there right with our team and kicking every ball with them.
They have us because our love of Arsenal pull’s at the core of your being and tugs your heart strings. They have us because they know we will still go to every game we can and if we are not lucky enough to be able to do so we pay through the nose to watch games on TV.
We will buy, the merchandise and all that goes along with following our team and hope against hope that someone inside the rotten core will break and let the floodgates open for the game of football to be cleanse as much as is possible. I believe that day may not be to far off as questions are now been asked more and more but meanwhile watching this is breaking my heart.
in the men’s pl it seems clearer and clearer that agenda’s of some sort are being followed by the media/authority figures with regard to keeping our hands of the pl trophy
I just wonder how much money is involved in scams
ps.. it would make me sick but i have a suspicion that spurs will win the pl
pss… go leicester go leicester
Gabby needs to be stronger on the challenge.
Well done to the girls. I hope oshoala scored
To be fair to moss, the penalty against liecester shouldn’t have been given. Vardy shouldn’t have been sent off and liecester should have gotten a penalty earlier when Huth was pulled down by ogbonna
jake
They know the ultimate disgrace for Arsenal, and that is, to let Spuds win it.
I actually thought that Leicester downfall would start today.
Possession; arsenal 86% palace 14%
delaney trying to take Kos’s head off.
OK.
He “brushed Sanchez aside” said the commentator(5 live). How is that different from other fouls given for that same sort of thing?
Para
Ultimate disgrace? Are you sure there is nothing worse?
I seen a couple minutes early, that one pass from Ozil almost sent Welbeck through. What a pass!
COYG!
Tom Quinn
How do you want me to explain this?? I didn’t say it was not a penalty did I. I said, if city bad been a point behind Leicester or the spuds it’s highly unlikely they would have got it, even if it was a stonewaller. That IS the point.
Someone said on here, a few weeks back, that they believed the title was going to be given to the spuds, and Leicester were being used as a decoy. Will they step forward please, whoever it was that said that 🙂
So far we have been pretty ineffective really, not good for a team of our calibre.
There is something wrong with the “Arsenal way” of playing football.
We are not direct enough, and taking too many passes to get to goal.
The women have shown us how to do it, maybe the women should play in PL instead. 🙂
so vardy sent off pen given to West Ham but it’s plain for all to see the ref clearly wanted Leicester to win surely some one should do something about this blatant cheating from the ref on top of which man city get a pen against Chelsea how much longer can we tolerate such behaviour
Go away, tom Quinn.
Gord
Well it is for some fans.
Personaly i would prefer spuds to win it than Leicester, Leicester winning it is an even bigger disgrace, us having beaten them both times this season, what no one else has done.
Hah!
Physio comes on for Palace to look at Dann (?). Starts examining the wrong foot.
COYG!
Any person with half a brain can see that the officiating we see in the PL appears to be premeditated. We are not psychics who can guess why this or that ref is doing this or that strange behaviour. We can only speculate based on the strange behaviour what their motives are.
The ref was roundly booed by the liecester crowd throughout the match, the same ref some are saying gave liecester the match. Hmmmmmnn
The disgraceful team just scored a beautiful goal 🙂
Saaaaannnnnchez
upp
The Leicester fans booing the ref doesn’t change his intentions or motives. Maybe they’re just idiots like some regulars here, who can’t see the obvious in front of them.
Jedinakinho trying to be clever when a straight forward clearance would have done. Arsenal said thanks!
@al
Yeah, maybe. But I’m sure the insult was unnecessary
what a beautiful little chip to Sanchez
Ai
No the point is you predict a pen for man city trying to prove some conspiracy theory they got a pen because it was a pen and what ? Now because Leicester got no help at all today you suddenly shift the conspiracy theory to spuds that’s the trouble the whole refs are bent thing is built on sand and changes from week to week with 4 games to go you are still changing your minds laughable
🙂
bugger how do you a smiley?
Not going anywhere Al
Quinn
With all due respect I’ll start engaging people with brains around here.
upp
From where I’m sitting the insult was very necessary. Leicester fans are stupid to boo a ref who just gave them a point.
Still trying to digest the Leicester match. The Vardy dive was a yellow. The first WH penalty was a penalty but the first half Huth business should have been,too. The last penalty for Leicester shouldn’t have been but a few minutes before that the WH defenders were strangling the Leicester forwards on a corner. What to think!
I was talking to my brother who prefers eggball and one thing that we talked about was the lack of progressive discipline in football. Rugby has instituted the sin bin and it seems to have worked. In football, it seems to be all or nothing. A lot of talkings-to and but the awarding of yellows and reds seem capricious at best. As for penalties, after watching the wrestling matches at both ends of the pitch in the Leicester/West Ham bout, why don’t they just award all of the penalties and let teams win 7-6?
ok tom i can’t do a smiley but i like to think i have a mind.
( opps got it first time)
leicester got no help today ( debatable) but over the season vardy has dived more times than luiz teeth Squarez and got most of them .
same for kane and much of his teammates behaviour has been little short of gbh but not punished .
would you care to share the team you support it may make interesting reading and perhaps give a foundation to start a debate
jake
use a colon and right bracket for smile
colon and left bracket for frown.
The only reason I mentioned someone thinking Leicester were being used as a decoy was because until today Leicester had had a 100% record under Moss till today. From what I hear moss seemed unsure of what he wanted to do, which appears like he wasn’t sure whether West ham should take all three points or what. What’s clear is he made some puzzling decisions throughout. Are we about to see a change in fortunes for Leicester? I don’t know.
Pretty goal by Sanchez! Nice chip.
COYG!
—
Seen some Leicester highlights (shut up Dobson/Dichio/Forrest!).
Many sports say no contact (and yet, there is still contact). Football has a very specific kind of allowed contact. It is pretty easy to set a dividing line between foul and no foul in either circumstance. With England ignoring the IFAB, where do you draw the line? It just makes referee manipulation of the game so easy.
Vardy. WHam players reaches out (that should be a foul), and tugs a little (and I seen the ref talk to Bellerin about a similar thing in our game early). Vardy decides to move towards the WHam player, so that their legs become entangled. Then he does the swan dive. That was all orchestrated by Vardy.
Leicester penalty, well the incident was in the box. Beyond that, I’ll leave it to Walter.
With respect don’t talk to yourself then al, upp nice to know you have the brains you so lucky al will talk to you
Nice work by Iwobi to get between CPal player and ball, and gets hauled down. Ref gives us the foul.
And then we get the stupid ref show again.
CPal players move back form the ball the required 10 yard/meter. Free kick still not taken. Iwobi comes back towards the ball. CPal player comes into the 10 yard/meter area, and gets within 1 yard of the ball. That should be a yellow. Once he was out of the 10, he had no business following Iwobi in or getting that close to the ball.
COYG!
But surely there was contact sufficient to fell vardy. The debate isn’t whether it’s a penalty or not, but whether it was a dive. For me their legs got tangled, both fell, no penalty, no dive. Goal kick. I don’t know any human being who could have remained standing after such a clash of legs. Even the West Ham defender went down
Adebayor on
upp I think there was contact but the 1/2 turn in mid-air was unbelievable
Shit! !!!! What a shot from bolasie
Assist adebayor
Typical Arsenal, again.
Our football is just not great anymore, it’s just below good, at least the way we play.
ok clearly no debate to be had with tom, may ask if your surname is sawyer or perhaps twain?
@ggg,
Half turn? Reeeeeaaaaaaaallllllyyyyyy???
Elneny off and Walcott on?
Names there for all to see jake what would you like to debate ?
4mins added time
Zaha lets arsenal off the hook
So, anyone still disagree with me?
Arsenal just put another nail in their coffin.
Full Time, boos ring out
@tom
my apologies bit frustrated watching the game .
ok would you say there has been an odd 20 or maybe 50 decisions in the pl this season and the pl seems somewhat tailored this season ? like back in the days when reyes got the shit kicked out of him
The tie is disappointing, we should have had quite a few goals. It is wonderful to watch Ozil and Sanchez on the pitch. I think Cech was lucky not to give up fouls for pushing a couple of times (maybe he was doing that all game?).
Completely ineffective team at the moment.
No urgency, no passion, it just looks to me like they are automats running on prescribed paths, which looks good if it comes off, but looks silly when not.
Oh Arsenal, oh Arsenal, woe is Arsenal, again…….
Unbeeleevable.
Sorry jakes didn’t see your earlier post just don’t subscribe to the refs are corrupt theory at all have watched Leicester few times this season I see a team full of running and desire again today wouldn’t give up and got rewarded I think it’s unfair for posters on here to call them cheats I think give credit where’s it’s due and they are due it in droves oh and I support Arsenal
I have watched the replay several times and still trying to work out how the PGMOL cheats engineered Palaces goal. Has anyone spotted it yet. K can’t believe it was simply bad defending.
Jake
Understand your frustration mate feeling the same here, yes there have been some terrible decisions this season but for me the reason is poor referring not corruption there is massive room for improvement in the way the game is reffed and untold have come up with some sensible suggestions where I disagree is that there is a bias against Arsenal in every game and that the refs have decided that Leicester will win the prem before a ball was kicked
Yellow Ribbon
Nobody is saying that Ref for Arsenal match waz biased.
But everyone is saying that Moss was poor.Even the whole media is saying.
Grow up. Leicester penalty was a gift.The same story we have seen whole season.
Actually the only really consistent theory for the referring this season that I can see is some form of organised betting scandal. It could explain the referees display today at Leicester – just think how much money you could have made on the Asian spot betting markets if you knew how the referee was going to act today. For those claiming it is bias against if for certain teams the inconsistency today – taking the game away from Leicester then giving it back makes no sense.
And of course Leicestervare owned by a Thai billionaire ….
tom quinn
” I see a team full of running and desire again today wouldn’t give up”
You said it, i watched the Lei v WH game too, and was impressed by their energy chasing down the opposition, but not so impressed by their rough tactics, maybe they go together though?
So, a message to all those POSITIVES.
Tell me what positives you get from the last two games? Go on, tell me, i’m listening.
Arsenal is falling deeper and deeper into a pit of their own digging, and there is no one to get them out of it. Arsenal is pretty sometimes, but the foodball strategem is sorely missing from the team.
Strategem – a plan or scheme, especially one used to outwit an opponent or achieve an end.
What on earth happened there? A game we had wrapped up ended in another disappointing draw. Palace had just the one shot on target and scored.
Can’t blame the officials this time though.
Congrats to the referee from the area of England that is “too far West to be relevant”
Well done Roger East. Can we have you back next week?
Disappointing draw especially when CP didn’t do much throughout the match. The team need to learn to accept a 1-0 win and not try to be fancy and score more especially with 14 minutes to go, they should have defended and try keep the 1-0 lead. Bellerin and Monreal need to stay back and cover their space instead of going forward when the match near its conclusion.
Overall, you can’t fault the teams effort and determination in the match. We were a bit unlucky especially with Ozils free kick and Sanchez header that narrowly just went wide. The booing from the fans after the match is disgraceful, it is not like the team lack passion or determination, they tried and fell just short.
Polo well said.But i disagree that Bellerin n Monreal should have stayed back.Cos at 1 nil it cud have easily been a draw which it was eventually.
should have 2 goal cushion to stay back.Imo.
I think Palace sat back too deep and defended well.
Our boys played very well but Palace cleared there lines well.
No Gut, no grit since the turn of the year. Seems we can only put in one half of a decent season. We either start poorly or end it horribly.
On to fighting for 4th place!
Fans that boo are not supporters. They think they know better with hindsight. We were not consistent, & lost the ball with fancy stuff. Sad result for a skillful team with a lack of intelligence.
Save if an unlikely mighty miracle happened for us, Our title dreams can be said to be all but over. Enh?
The wrong Boss’ starts and substitutes today for our today’s match agaist Crystal Palace team at the Ems in my own opinion, played to their billing of not to be trusted to win a game when their most needed to win it as they allowed Crystal Palace to equalised their slender 1 goal lead. And thereby forfeited their chance to remain in the title race and stay confidently in contention for a Champions League spot. The spot is now in danger of not picking it should the if happened.
The question I ask myself after today’s disappointing outing by the Gunners against a Crystal Palace side the Gunners should at least have beaten 4-0 is, can the Boss put together a title winning Gunners team again since he last did in 2004?
This manager the sooner he leave the better.
It is not about money anymore.Simply when the team loose it from winnning position several the mental strength bullshit that he talks about is clear to everyone is empty talk.
Still the so called genius manager tried for a decade to convince us a 100m sprinter is a footballer.Sigh……
He has to go .
But Mr. Stan money matters and be prepared in order to keep safe his money he will come up with what it matter to him.
Sad days .
I’m really,really looking forward to tonights MOTD to see what they make of the Leicester/West Ham game and hoping that someone sensible like Jermaine Jenas is on the team.
@serge
No sane person watches MOTD, Lord know I don’t even bother since the turn of the year.
I thought we played ok very wasteful in front their goal, we switch off at the wron g times, hat has been our downfall this season.
dan
No, really I’m looking forward to it.
There’s no way they can fanny their way out of commenting on Moss’ performance today.
You see Polo that’s where the disagreement comes in .Perhaps individually players were putting in effort but there was little or no real drive to take Palace apart.Pardew knew at 1 nil he would get a chance and that they would most likely take it. We I am afraid instead of going for their throats allowed them to get back in it and in fact we nearly gave them the game. Until we realise that there is a need to be more direct when we have the ascendency we will continue to drop points in this type of game.
This idea that Arsenal finishing below the spuds is the ULTIMATE horror is just stupid.
Let’s present a scenario. A person is bound up, and is being lowered from a hoist into an industrial meat grinder, being turned into hamburger while still alive.
Nobody in their right mind, would choose being turned into hamburger over having their favorite sports team finish below a rival team at the end of the season.
It is just dumb to even suggest such a trivial thing like sports team relative standings is an ULTIMATE horror.
Dan,
Of course Han can and will!
Sorry, bloody autocorrect. I meant to say that of course the MOTD pundits can and will twist anything to suit their own agenda. Don’t expect anything like enalysis.
I was at the match and I didn’t hear boos ring out.
We are a team that takes the initiative, tries to create, but that needs technique, confidence and a bit more clinical finishing than this team have exhibited in 2016.
In contrast, increasing numbers of teams just sit back, and let teams like us take the initiative, but make the mistakes, and get punished when we don’t score enough goals. This tactic is proving far too effective against us. I don’t expect the next opponents to try and do anything different.
There are still games to go, we need a strong finish, but this has an air of a can do much better this season for referees, some of our players and yes, probably the coaching staff as well. Too many leads have slipped
2016 so far has largely been a poor year for Arsenal, however one looks at it.
upp,
The second Vardy yellow was for a dive as obvious as one can be. Even Moss seemed embarrassed. Vardy attempted to take a page out of Hazard’s book and tangle his feet with the defender’s running alongside him. What he actually did was to spin in the air and throw both his feet among the defender’s feet, which made them take a jump of which Michael Phelps would have been proud. So, it was Vardy that fouled the defender, not the other way around.
For me, the Lei pen was suspect to say the least. Carroll shouldered the Lei player, but the question is, why did he choose the exact moment when they were both in the corner of the box, running pretty much through the box and away from it. The Lei player (sorry don’t remember who he was, not sure if Kante) was almost 1 foot shorter, hence threw himself at the ground with ease, making it look worse than it actually was. Moss couldn’t wait to give the pen though.
So the Match of the Day staff are now openly talking about the ref “evening things up”. That’s very different to “it all evens out in the end”.
Right now we are behind three teams that have players with over 20 league goals.
Cech conceded a soft goal, another goal conceded from outside of the box against Palace. Coquelin didn’t close Bolasie well and his closing down was the real issue against West Ham as well. I rate both of them but…
I don’t think we should have sit back and keep the 1:0 scoreline. We should have slaughtered them but we don’t have a killer striker that could reach 20 goals in the league. Wenger will have to change that next summer.
Also, a top class defender is needed, someone who will command. Koscielny is excellent defender but doesn’t have Per’s mental qualities. He almost gave all three points to Palace.
That being said, this team needs support in the last five matches of the season, more than ever before. Booing them is idiotic way to express discontent and I don’t know what those people who come to the stadium think about.
I was at the match also & the boos were at the end of the game. I was disappointed with the number of poor tackles & lack of urgency in defence from Arsenal. They kept playing the short pass out of defence when long ball was more appropriate. Some of the running with the ball was unnecessary as a pass would ensure possession. However, it is what it is.
Andrew Crawshaw
MOTD were pretty good on their assessment of Moss.
@ Rosicky and Porter, I understand that we shouldn’t start playing defensive if there was a lot of time left but with 14 minutes to go surely we should start playing more defensively and counter when the chance arrive, we normally do this when playing big teams.
@ Florian, the penalty at the end for Leicester was not a penalty but it was made up for the foul on Huth a few minutes back where one of the WHU player had his arm around Huth and dragged him down in the WHU penalty area, which clearly should have been a penalty for Leicester.
The funny thing is all season we see Arsenal players get man-handled in the penalty area but never received any penalties but for some reason the ref decided to award WHU and Leicester, pure inconsistency and incompetent in my opinion.
Polo,
Re Huth: He was pulling the shoulder of the defender in front of him while jumping for the ball. That’s probably the excuse for Moss not to award the penalty. But yes, we see that pretty much every time with Giroud et comp, so agree with you about the double standards.
I’ve been doing work around the farm, and never looked sooner. But, the game report for the Ladies game is up at Arsenal.com.
There is no mention anywhere in the report, of someone named Andrew causing a raucous. 🙂
They sort of describe the happenings leading to the expulsion of Mitchell, but not really. In terms of the page at Arsenal.com, I think they need to change their graphics a little. There is a difference between getting a yellow and then a straight red, and getting a yellow and a second yellow/which means the red has to be issued.
But, congratulations to the Ladies. I hope they do another 7-0 to Chelsea at the final! Realistically, a good game would be nice. And fair referees. It sounds like the officiating left something to be desired, which is sad for a FA Cup semifinal. It seems that having 😈 Mike Riley in the vicinity seems to corrupt everything.
The FA should do something, to get a good turn out for the Women’s FA Cup final. I suspect they will do nothing but go feed at the trough. Can Arsenal get 10k (more?) fans out? It sure would be nice.
Oh, thanks to Andrew for reports of the game!
@pat, really? You didn’t hear the boos? These TV stations must have added that then, because they were quite loud in my TV.
@florian, whether vardy fouled the defender or was fouled, there’s no way way a human being is gonna keep his balance after such a tangling of legs. So whether the ref decides to give a foul either way or not to give the foul,he had no business booking vardy for a dive
I am beginning to suspect that in order to not lose players every summer like before, AW tells the players to knock a bit off their performance so that the board does not get the idea to sell them.
Help, i’m pulling straws here, but maybe this is why i say this team has not even got out of the starting blocks yet.
//
5 live radio (my ears)were saying there were a lot of empty seats at Emirates? Official figures tickets sold 59.000 and some, but they said no way was that amount of people in the stadium.
I could not see as the TV stream (my eyes) did not pan over the crowd.
upp,
yes he could book Vardy for his foul. Because his foul was made in order to deceive the ref. Or to con the ref. Or however you want to put it. And Vardy clearly tried to con the ref as he immediately was claiming a penalty. And it was him who threw his legs between the West Ham player.
And trying to con the ref should be punished with a yellow card. It is the same (and not completely the same) as a dive.
It is called cheating (diving and trying to win a penalty by making a foul yourself and then claiming to being fouled) and cheating should be punished with a yellow card.
upp
He tried the same trick which worked against us- knock the ball one direction then run in the other direction to get in the path of the defender. (with Monreal he had a near static ‘target’, this time he had to get himself into the path of the defender chasing the ball)
Ref looked perfectly positioned to see what he’d done. It’s as blatant an act of cheating as any dive without contact.
What else can it possibly be when the ball is there for you to pursue but you ignore it to seek contact in the hopes of gaining a massive advantage for your team by tricking a ref into thinking a foul took place in the box?
Throwing you legs between an opponents to induce contact or going down theatrically is one thing, and can be difficult to judge, but an attacker has no business ignoring the ball and running in a path instead to create contact with a player who is honestly pursuing the ball.
It’s very easy to spot from the right position, and can leave a ref in no doubt as to what happened and that a booking is fully deserved.
You’d almost think they had actually done their job and properly studied controversial incidents involving Vardy and so were fully prepared to do the right thing if he tried it again.
It’s PGMOL, so I doubt that’s the case, but that yellow was spot on and richly deserved
This is something I don’t understand, why do Arsenal fans boo our ex-players? I mean they use to play for the club so should have some respect towards them even if the way they left was not right. Also by booing them, wouldn’t that only incite them to play better? I can’t see any logic in booing the ex-players.
Para The Arsenal always report the tickets sold so a season ticket is counted whether the seat is used or not. Actual attendance is always a lot lower as there are always empty seats clearly visible.
Only right after all my referee attention (and hate) to note I thought East was good yesterday.
Says something about our normal refereeing that it felt so remarkable to see a ref showing pretty good judgement of what is and isn’t a foul in one of our games.
My brain is very well trained at this point to spot opportunities for refs to let things go against us or wrongly stop our momentum, i.e. for pgmol tricks, but he kept passing up those chances and making the right call. A glaring one was the tussle for the ball immediately before our goal.
I even felt at one point he was slightly, slightly favouring us. Which felt exceptionally weird.
Yesterday was purely on the team and the inability to convert so many good situations into a second goal.
Also highlighted that if you aren’t to play cynically your job is harder than all teams who do and therefore you need to be better. Nasty case of deja vu in the position Adebayor picked the ball up and moved forward.
Contrast with how Dann was having none of Welbeck going past him out wide
I still thought the referee was ignoring a lot of fouls committed against us. And I don’t agree that our players sat back after scoring the goal. In fact we tried desperately to score a second which is probably one reason why they managed to score against us. Crystal Palace’s defensive play made it hard to get through them. At one point there was an offside near the half way line.
I think we all know where the problems are.
It is a frustrating time, some of these issues would initially appear to be recurring, self inflicted and unnecessary, but we do not know what goes on behind the scenes… for now, lets just back who we have , then let Wenger take care of a few issues after that, as I am sure he will.
It seems apathy is now the watchword amongst the critics…many supporters, and their media/Manc/Spud/Chav sleeper allies seem to want us out of the top four…some in the hope that will bring about change, but,even in that event, unlikely wenger will leave, nor will he be sacked, but I can assume it will make them more cautious on spending, and maybe make our star players think twice about new deals
Crucial weeks ahead, all concerned, including fans in the stadium need to get their act together.
Upp.
Vardy was a clear dive and a booking. He has been doing this all season and the refs are now aware of it. Similar to the one he won at our place. What he tries to do is create contact yesterday he three his legs between the defenders. What he did then was dive and you can see him twist in the air. He could be wearing a superman costume and it would be no less obvious. It’s the classical dive routine, Hazard is similar. He’s a great player but he needs to stop cheating. 11 penalties Leicester this season and I don’t know how many Huth and Morgan shoukd get against them. You can tell and Italian coaches them.
Simple truth is Vardy is a cheat. He has been allowed to cheat so many fouls & penalties. He is arrogant with it like Moss should accept his finger pointing dissent. Riley will ignore the rugby because iit’s a northern accepted tackle in PGMOs laws…..includes choke holds.
@Mandy dodd 10:43 pm
This is true and we’ll said.
We leave too much space behind our full backs leaving us open to these counters. Happens so many times. If we took more of the chances we create, 20 again, it wouldn’t matter so much. Our achilles heel.
Para – I estimate crowd of 30k. Many paid for empty seats.
Pat you are right about ref not giving Arsenal many fouls & letting CP gain momentum with pseudo fouls. It is also evident that rugby by opponents in Arsenals box is allowed. Where as kos had a red in the past for holding in the box.
@vinnie as you say they don’t even out, that is ex players speak to defend cheating. Leicester remind me of Wimbledon back in the day. Someone was talking about how Leicester had lower pass completion than even Villa. Defensively Huth is a thug, he always has been. He gets away with it because it’s Leicester in my opinion. Morgan is the same. All teams seem to do it but Leicester are the worst in our league. I think referees are getting wise to it just like their diving. But its taken too long. Not good for English football despite what our journalists are printing. The Europeans will think we have regressed 30 years. The ex referees on here should review Leicester games to see how much they have been getting away with.
I think the refs were aware Vardy was cheating all season. It’s not hard to spot for those who have eyes to see. They have been ignoring it and going along with this season’s story for whatever reason.
We still beat them twice, the only team that has.
Walter
I don’t know if you are able to watch a replay of the Vardy play in slow motion but if you were, you could clearly see Ogbonna grabbing Vardy’s right forearm to pull him back and not letting go until Vardy decides to throw his legs into the defender’s legs.
My question to you is this; doesn’t the fact Ogbonna commits the initial foul, and it is a foul even though most players get away with arm grabbing during games, prevent or at least should prevent Vardy from getting a yellow for simulation?
Shouldn’t the call have been a no penalty and no card.
Btw, it was Ogbonna again later in the game choke holding Huth for what should’ve been a penalty for Leicester.
Re those pointing towards some kind of double standard of arsenal players getting manhandled in the box, to me a more appropriate view is that blocking, pulling, tugging or tripping happens virtually multiple times a game on set pieces, in every single premier league game and goes uncalled. It not an anti-arsenal thing, it’s just bad inconsistent refereeing that happens ever single game for ever single team. I think if we are honest, we all know this.
Re vardy – the Leicester defender clearly, and i mean clearly,tugs his right shoulder and doesn’t let go for a few yards before Vardy goes down. Why is this not mentioned? Vardy was ahead of him through on goal and clearly gets fouled first. I’ve seen it said multiple times including on here, that until refs have the courage to call penalties where players don’t go down, then the onus will continue to be for them to go down. A great example was a Loic Remy incident earlier this season when after being hacked in the box he tried to keep his feet and screwed up his goal scoring chance. Over-simplifying this problem as just cheating doesn’t help, refs also have a responsibility to call fouls where there is no falling. Just as with not calling grabs in the box on practically every corner they similarly don’t call pens, when players are fouled and try to keep their feet. This again affects all teams not just us.
So back to the incident, Vardy was clearly fouled first, and tumbles willfully or perhaps at that speed it doesn’t take much contact (and the replays surely showed there was contact) for someone to legitimately fall. I’m not sure if this was the case here, but really illustrating this incident was not as black and white as being painted here.
Also this notion that you constantly here when watching matches that it’s either a foul or a dive is nonsense. In a high speed, unclear incident like this there’s a very legitimate third option – no foul either way.
Not all contact is a foul – especially when both players make contact – it’s a contact sport after all…sheesh.
And also re the ref, literally a few mins after Vardy’s “dive” Payet on yellow also “dives” with much less ambiguity. No mention of that.
The ref was poor and inconsistent throughout (example the inconsistency on box handling on set pieces) but he was poor for both teams and was not favoring Leicester. Which brings me to my last point, in a thread about Arsenal and Palace …why the obsession with Leicester?
Actually second last point, there are charts and data out there that show Leicester is by far and away the most direct team for scoring goals, they do so in the least amount of passes to score and with the ball travelling the greatest distance (i.e. long or through balls), in other words …their tactic is to quickly and very quickly counter and use their pace and run onto long passes, (getting in behind) therefore these situations obviously lead to more defences out of place and playing catching up and increases the chances for fouling.
On the flip side, Arsenal on their goals take the most passes to score and pass over very short distances (the most) around the box..so our style of play is far more slow and patient and probing – i.e. defences are generally in shape against us and less prone to being caught out and fouling.
Not everything is a conspiracy.
There are many more questionable factors about the rapid rise of Leicester which have bee outlined on this site and in other places.
The most obvious one is that they were allowed an unfair financial advantage when they were in the championship.
This is not the tiny team it is often described as. When my son was in Bangkok two years ago he had the surreal (at the time) experience of seeing Leicester City merchandise on sale everywhere. The shape of things to come.
There is a lot of money invested in this team.
Jojo
Good post
I don’t blame Moss for not spotting the Ogbonna tug on Vardy since his angle of viewing the play makes it virtually impossible to see that, but like yourself, I’m surprised no one has mentioned the initial foul upon reviewing the play.
What Moss sees from his position on the pitch, is Vardy throwing his legs into the path of Ogbonna thus initiating contact.
Many pundits go with referee’s decision and if Moss had ruled the play in favor of Vardy – a penalty and a possible red card for Ogbonna, I think they would’ve justified it by claiming Vardy was being tugged on the play and the fact he went to ground too easily would’ve been deemed inconsequential.
If Vardy’s incident is not a dive, then there is no such thing as a dive in football, but then again ‘dives’ are only applicable to foreigners such as South American players right?
Polo, it’s only that black and white if you want it to be. Vardy was clearly fouled before he went to ground. That’s clear as day. Unti penalties are called when players stay on their feet(something that has been mentioned on this site repeatedly) there’s no incentive not to go down. So yeah I think after he’s pulled back he tries to sell it – though anyone who’s played football knows that high speed contact doesn’t often need much to make players legitimately fall.
It’s the easiest way out to say Vardy cheated but honestly it isn’t as clear an incident as being made out here. And overall the ref had a poor game where both teams could feel legitimately hard done by through his inconsistency ..especially with diving (see Payet on a yellow) and grappling in the box (see Huth).
By the way some comments above attempt to say Huth was also handling just before he got pulled down..but curiously there’s not any mention of a clear tug back on Vardy before he goes down.
Tom that’s a great point, if the ref had called the foul on the defender for his pullback on Vardy..it would have 100% been the right call and the fall as you said would have been inconsequential.
Arsenal current form (last 12 all competitions) W3 D4 L5.
Swansea current form (last 12 all competitions) W5 D3 L4.
On a positive note, they have a better last 12 than Villa, Newcastle, Sunderland or Norwich, so not quite ‘relegation form’.
Walter
Also, how is Vardy/ Ogbonna incident any different from the Arteta/ Chamakh one, when Arteta was sent off at Crystal Palace in 2013 for bringing down Chamakh near the halfway line, when it was Chamakh who clearly initiated contact with Arteta.
Your opinion at the time was – a correct red card for Arteta, and you justified it by saying that the attacking player has the right to protect the ball with his body, and since Chamakh was in control of the ball ,it didn’t matter that he had veered off his path and into Arteta’s. An opinion I strongly disagreed with at the time btw.
Tom, Wasn’t that in the season refs who supported other clubs did the reviews?
If not… we surely weren’t biased in favour of Arsenal then 😉
I don’t see the images clear in my head (Chamakh/Arteta) but I have seen one angle from Vardy where he ‘jumped’ his legs in to the WH player but I didn’t look at the ball and if it was “in his control” or not.
And I don’t know if I have some images on my hard disk but when I have time I will try to look at it.
Now I watched it from a distance in the pub where we had our board meeting and was more interested in our board meeting to be honest
Walter, straightforward question. Did Ogbonna pull/grab Vardy on his right shoulder/upper forearm before Vardy went to ground?
I’ll be happy to send the stills by the way.
here: http://media.balls.ie/uploads/2016/04/17151552/Vardy-Dive-1.png
And there are much better views from the side angle which showed he was being grabbed when he entered the box and for a few yards well into the box before he goes to ground/dives whatever.
If this was our player we would find that pull back entirely relevant.
and here: http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/leicester-citys-english-striker-jamie-vardy-runs-for-the-ball-before-picture-id521841280
Walter
Point taken , although you know what they say about one swallow and the spring 🙂
If I recall, Arteta was our deepest defender from a corner, back when he was still considered quick enough.
Chamakh received the ball around a halfway line from Jedinak, took a typically heavy touch, the ball went to the right of him and Chamakh barged into Arteta to his left.
The lino waved his flag like he was on fire and Arteta was deemed to have fouled Chamakh and prevented a clear goal scoring opportunity, which it wasn’t.
The crux of the play, however, imo was the fact that Arteta did nothing to instigate the contact, yet, you thought Chamakh had every right to do what he did.
Why couldn’t Vardy do likewise ?
Especially when he’s already being fouled on the play?
Mind you, I couldn’t give two shits about Vardy’s plight , or how it effects Leicester City, but how many on here would ignore s clear pullback on a Sanchez for example even if he dived afterwards? Not many, that I can bet my house on.
Jojo – There is nowhere in the Laws where it states that football is a contact sport. It is implied by the law that states if contact is made with an opponent before the ball, it is a foul.
Incidentally the holding & hugging in the penalty area does not occur when Arsenal defend because they do not man mark.
The truth is why Drinkwater hasn’t seen red for the number of foul bookable tackles per match he commits is proof that the PGMO are not fit for purpose.
Menance, all contact isn’t automatically a foul. We can just agree to disagree here.
But in any case – by your cited definition: “if contact is made with any opponent before the ball, it is foul” then clearly Vardy was fouled well before he went to ground correct?
And this wasn’t even incidental contact, but a clear grab of a player ahead of the defender.
Eagerly awaiting your answer.
The images are pretty easy to find.
an* opponent
@Jojo, agree with you if a player get tugged or shirt pull then it should be a foul but this occurs in many matches and the offending players rarely get punished especially inside the penalty area. Now would Vardy had look for a foul or easily go down if the incident was far from the penalty area? I highly doubt it. I think he would have stayed on his feet and try to outrun the defender and then have a shot a goal. I see many time players go at full speed dribbling the ball down the flanks passing defenders who either shirt pull or tugged them and they don’t go down unless they see that they lost control of the ball or the offending player is ahead of them.
In today’s Telegraph Alan Smith gives following interpretation – Vardy feels himself being touched and decides to make it a penalty instead of – as our players do – fighting to stay upright and try to score. His following actions are the same as he has been doing all season – he deliberately tangles or runs into another player and goes down.
I wonder why a couple of contributors to this discussion are spending so much time and effort contesting this particular decision?
What about the later decision to award Leicester the equalising penalty when Carroll and the Leicester player appeared to do no more than mutually brush against each other’s shoulders?
What about Huth and his fellow Leicester defender strong arming opponents with impunity all season?
@ Pat, and the handball in penalty area Leicester get away with. 1 match it could be considered accidental, two match hmm what’s going on? But 3 or more matches then something is seriously wrong.
@ Polo, you’re interpretation could be correct, but it’s a lot of supposition. The point is he was tugged with ogbonna clearly having a grip on him arm as Vardy is ahead of him. Anything beyond that is what ifs.
I don’t like Vardy either, however, this incident is simply not the black and white incident as being made out.
@ Pat – the answer as to why contesting it, is simply because I don’t think it’s as black and white as being made out to be, so I’m giving my opinion on the incident. Why shouldn’t someone contest it, when it’s clear that there was a lot of relevant info before Vardy went to ground? Why ignore that, based on whatever stuff you believe happened in the season?
Also “touched”? The still shots are easily available, Ogbonna has a clear and full GRIP on his forearm not an incidental touch as I think you’re inferring by citing that.
And what about the later Carroll decision? I think it was the wrong one, but even on replay while I don’t think it’s a clear foul, Carroll is a little clumsy with the challenge there.
Also with regards to other incidents in the game, Payet looked to have dived when on a second yellow, why is this not being discussed – is it that it doesn’t fit a narrative that Leicester, Leicester, have cheated their way to the summit of the premier league?
Huth etc. stong arming with impunity all season? If that bothers you that much, it is easy, and i mean easy to spot literally dozens if not hundreds of examples, every match week of players grappling in the box on corners and set pieces affecting all teams – getting outraged at Leicester players specifically for this (incidentally Huth didn’t get what seemed a clear call based on what the ref had previously called) seems really narrowly focused, and only so, based on their relevant position to us. I don’t think you’d care otherwise, as this problem is nothing new.
It’s hard to believe you’re genuinely concerned about this widespread problem, because again, this literally happens to some degree on every single corner taken in every single game.
The reality is ALL clubs and their fans feel hard done by by refereeing and can put forth examples as to why, this is not a unique. The standard of refereeing is poor and inconsistent across the board – as it was in the Leicester/WHU game and affected both teams (negatively and positively) equally.
Pat
I’ll answer for myself.
What you want from refs is consistency. The penalty on Carroll is laughable. Having said that, you can’t call a pen for wrestling at one end of the pitch ( Morgan) , and not give one for practically the same at the other end of it.
People who deny the pen on Huth for Ogbonna choke hold are not serious.
Also, if you look at the Leicester season and conclude they have got the better of ref decisions – fair enough, but don’t ignore an obvious foul on Vardy by Ogbonna because you are still pissed off he earned a dodgy pen against Montral.
And no ,it’s not a touch, as Smith claims. It’s way more than that.
This is a site that makes a living at trying to expose the double standards in refereeing when it comes to Arsenal versus other clubs in the league, yet the same people who were screaming their collective heads off when Sanchez was put in a choke hold by Stoke, or Ozil by a Swansea player, will deny the same to Huth because …… he’s a physical defender who might’ve done similar in the past?
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Next time Huth puts someone in a choke hold I’ll be asking for a pen , and this you can be sure of.
So yes, I think Vardy did dive but he also was fouled which should’ve been taken into account, at least in the aftermath.
Pat
‘There’s an air of apathy around the club…., there should be an inquest at the end of the season..’
This is also what Alain Smith said in the media. I wander if you agree with either?
Jojo,
If it were a tug, Vardy would lean in the direction of the defender. Instead Vardy leaves his legs behind and throws them towards the defender, which provokes the accident. The defender grabbed Vardy’s shoulder but didn’t impede him from playing the ball.
@tom and jojo
Kudos to you two, I couldn’t say it better. I ain’t a liecester fan and I think the penalty they got was laughable. However, I won’t also be a sore whining loser and try to discredit a hard working champion team because of envy.
Florian
Actually, no.
Ogbonna tugs on Vardy’s arm, that’s beyond dispute, but also, if you slow the play down you could clearly see that as he is pulling him back, his elbow( Ogbonna’s) makes contact with Vardy’s back, while he is still holding Vardy’s arm. So in effect ,there are two forces aplyed; one – a pullback, and second – an elbow push into Vardy’s back.
So no , he wouldn’t be leaning towards the defender.
You got the legs part correct.
It’s too obvious and that’s what Moss sees.
So in short,
So in short, Moss got to see only one half of the play.
Kudos to all who seen with their own eyes what went on at the Leicester Wesh Ham match.
John Wayne would have given Vardy a part in one of his film’s if the big man was still alive for the acting in the Pentaly Area.
I don’t know what is going on at Arsenal but something needs to change very quick before the last game of this season.
We need to learn how to defend till the final whistle goes for a start.
It seems at times in the final third we are to congested, that the play needs to spread and we are going to have to mix it up because teams know exactly what we are going to do and the same thing keeps happening.
No matter what it maybe I know we need to get behind this team in every game and give them and AWenger are full support now much more than ever.
Linda
You got it spot on that it seems in the final third we’re too congested. I have observed the same thing with Barcelona this season; when faced with teams who monopolise possession like us or Barcelona teams just refuse to come out and park the bus. They only come out on a counter, set-piece or corner. As a result you find negativity is overcoming the good football. Just take a look at Barcelona’s recent games, they’re losing to teams who will have had something like 22% possession and 3 shots on target. The same thing is happening to us too, teams are congesting their defence and yesterday I think we were above 80% possession for most of the match and had over 20 shots.
When these same teams play other sides who don’t hog the ball like us they come out as they believe they’re in with a chance to, and leave themselves open at the back. So what I’m saying is a team like West brom has a better chance of beating a team like crystal palace than we have at the moment. It’s sad, but it is what is; negative football rules.
Tom,
Put a slo-mo on the shirt tug. There are a few element there:
– The tug starts outside the box. Vardy takes 2 more steps, with his left and right feet, before entering the box.
– The moment Vardy enters the box, he starts tumbling. That for me is an indication that the tug wasn’t strong enough to keep him from running.
– Ogbonna stops pulling Vardy’s arm before his elbow touches Vardy’s back. The touch is the result of 2 movements: Vardy’s back arching up, and Ogbonna’s arm coming down. I can only conclude that Vardy took the jump as soon as he could after feeling Ogbonnna’s hand on his arm. Had Vardy attempted to keep his run, there is every chance he could have kept going for at least a few more steps before crashing to the ground as a result of losing his balance.
So yes, I can see Ogbonna’s attempt to foul Vardy, however that occurred outside the box, and Vardy embellished it unnecessarily. Ironically, making it so spectacular detracted from Ogbonna’s action, and going forward this is one more carte blanche for defenders to chicane the attackers.
There are 2 incidents which relate to this:
– Last year, Zabaleta was denied a penalty for embellishing, although he was legitimately tripped into the box. He fell down on the defender’s feet although the defender was blocking his way to the ball making no attempt to play the ball himself. Don’t remember if Zabaleta got carded, but I clearly remember there was no penalty.
– Alexis vs Everton got tripped and pushed in the box. He clearly attempted to keep going as far as he could before collapsing and going down. Clattenburg didn’t even flinch.
One more proof that the law is being bent at will by the PiGMOB’s representatives.
Btw, anyone noticed Schlupp from Leicester grabbed the shoulder of the referee while the latter was showing the red to Vardy? That should have been a red card in itself. Walter’s video of Thiago Silva being sent off for less comes to mind.
I mean, Barcelona have the world’s most lethal strike force, but they’re getting beat by teams like Sociedad and even a team near the relegation zone like Valencia, and at home too. So should Barca spend some f*cking money and get a world class striker? Who will they buy who can improve their strike force? Noone. Not from this planet anyway. As long as teams see that you can park the bus for 80 minutes then do a smash and grab, sides that play attacking football are in for a very difficult time.
The solution would be to start parking the bus as well. But then that’ll be the death of football. I don’t think Allardyce realised this would his legacy when he started parking the bus with his Boltons and Blackburns.
Linda , that was a pretty odd match.but in the end, Leicester and their penalties!
To quote positively arsenal Twitter feed, it seems we have only been fouled in the box twice this season, and not at all in 2016. A 550% variation compared with LcFC it seems.
Agree Al, negative football is very successful here at the moment. It seems we are going to have to find a way to be a lot more clinical, and a bit better in defence as well. Wenger will find a way….he needs to !
The problem is, Allardyce didn’t care. He was not bothered what kind of football he played. Do you remember Stoke under Pulis? He didn’t care either. But what is it like to watch football like that week after week? Surely there must be a better way?
You are right, Mandy, if anybody can find a way, Arsene can. Fingers crossed for the rest of the season. If not, all the rest of our matches could be like Crystal Palace, because all those clubs are likely to come and park the bus. Let’s hope at the end of a long hard season our players can summon up the resilience, but also the stroke of genius, that gets us through.
Al
I was watching the Barcelona match last night and the same thing went through my own mind. Just like us in the final third and easy to pick of in the break. It seems as if they get in each other’s way and to much passing which can be easily picked of. I would love to see more shots from in or around the eighteen yard line just to add another dimension to our game.
Your 100% right you say about the Strikers, if it can happen to them with the best in the world up front then it can happen to anyone.
Football is the loser in all of this and the park the bus is now the norm.
It’s the kind of football I detest and Allardyce should hang his head in shame along with Moaning One.
Yet again the Arsenal fan base are been talked about among other clubs and while this support remains fractured this team do not get our full support.
A house divided cannot stand, I hope we all learn this sooner rather than later for everyone who loves this football.
Think they will Pat, but could do with Caz or…and Jack back, even if that happens, not sure how effective they will be at this stage.
I also wonder if it is worth considering both OG and DW for these type of teams……yes, that may contradict Linda’s congestion theory I know.
There is a lot at stake,
Linda, think our fanbase will be fractured for a long time, or at least while Wenger is here, and will be very delicate for a while after that.
Things could peak very soon, should Spurs win the league, and we finish 4th or heaven forbid , 5th can see media and celebrity superfan assisted meltdown.
On a positive note, Alexis’s goal was exactly one of those strokes of genius. We just needed one more to make us safe!
Just when you thought things couldn’t get any worse…..Mike Dean against Sunderland.
But remember Mike, if refs cost us a top four place, the club and their influential CEO may stop their policy of passive silence over the refereeing….erm…..inconsistencies we face…..a fine balance there.
Yes Mandy
I get the overwhelming feeling that should those things happen the certain supporters would just love it.
The pen’s are nothing less than a joke and a sick one at that.
Even if A Wenger goes you can bet your mortgage sooner or later it will happen and keep happening with this fan base .
Some of these supporters are rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of letting loose with the spew and venom that is going to be aimed at the players and of course Wenger who once again will be seen as the central character in all of this. For me the board need to stand up and be counted in this also but I do not know what is going on there nor do I know what is been said to the players or to A Wenger.
We have to change it up a it and tighten up at the back without doubt but something is not right at all and I pray it’s been addressed even as we type or we are going to be in for one hells summer.
I believe we need to buy but only 2-3 players at most but I’m hoping against hope that come Thursday we finally get it right and win the last of our games, if Sunday has not been a lesson learned then I can see us finishing out of the top four .
I’m an optimist and with every fibre of my being they will have my support every ticking second of that old clock and long after that again.
I don’t really understand the argument that if Arsene Wenger wasn’t there the fans would be more positive. Only Arsene Wenger has kept us in the top four all these years despite everything he has had against him.
I cannot see any other person having been able to accomplish what he has done despite all the odds. In our corrupt and money ridden league, I doubt very much whether his successor will be able to do the same. It really has been a titanic achievement.
Why would our fickle, unappreciative and glory hunting fans be better to someone else? It seems he only got general praise in the short but brilliant era of the Invincibles and our league and cup wins round that period.
Even the achievement of a record breaking two cup wins in a row was not enough for our fans once more to chant ‘One Arsene Wenger’.
To be honest, the whole thing makes me sick.
Linda, those fans will be extremely excited by their beloved Spurs tonite.
Think we will finish in the top four, but they cannot be complacent in their current form, and finishing fourth has its dangers.
Agree, there won’t be a buying spree this summer, maybe three or four, with the odd departure….maybe the threat of departure is hindering the form of some? On the departures, I really hope arteta is kept on as a coach, and for the future, think him going ….as reported to Spurs or city would send a message that they are not moving forward on the coaching …Or perhaps even succession front…..but what do I know?
On refs, just get a gut feeling we will get a better time of it when Wenger has gone, but cannot be sure.
Pat, it is sickening, but we have a bit of a perfect storm, poor form in 2016, a missed title challenge blamed on Wenger, lesser resources….and local rivals fighting for the title.
This one could end badly, just hope we can finish as high as possible, get this …non vintage season out of the way…..and start again in the summer with hopefully renewed purpose and optimism.
Yes Mandy Pat it looks like they may get just what they want and they have the bare.faced cheek to call themselves supporters. Oh how they have been waiting for this and you can here the sharing of the knives already
Arteta I hope also will stay on in a coaching roll as he seems to have the players support in this.
On the ref front I’m not to sure if it will change when he goes but I think it run’s far deeper than we may think in this EPL. Don’t trust them at all after what I have seen this year never mind years past.
Sometimes when I read the vile abuse I feel ashamed to be an aArsenal supporter and then it makes me burn inside at the injustice of it all put on a man’s shoulders who’s crime is his love for this club and wanting to play football the right way. I really don’t understand it and I’m glad I don’t because if I did I would just be like them and I thank God that I’m not.
I truly fear for him and his players have let him down also and I think they also know that, more than even that they have let themselves down by not shutting up shop time and time again.
We are human beings who will always make mistakes but it’s how we learn from them that set’s us up on the right road.
They need us behind them 100% but I bet there are even more little banners out in force and the name calling will get worse and what player would want to give there all for this support out on that pitch yet those morons screaming abuse think that those same players should, that’s how messed up this is. I despair for our club when I listen to all this and it seems to be sinking further and further down and I fell totally helpless.
Florian, Ogbonna grabs vardy’s arm and does not let go well into the box, he contacts vardy first , vardy is ahead of him and the ball is in front of Vardy..it’s a foul all day everyday.
We can debate the physics of the fall til the end of the time, but it’s pointless because no one is disputing that Vardy tried to over sell it, that however, in no way invalidates that he was clearly fouled before tumbling. CLEARLY. I mean what is there to even dispute? There’s ample available photos and footage of the incident floating around. It’s crystal clear.
Now think about this..you can say it’s a small tug/grab, though all the stills show ogbonna has a complete grip of Vardy’s arm, but that is easily enough to change a clear goal scoring chance into a very difficult half chance, remember we are dealing with split second margins at very high speed – it really doesn’t take much. So that grab arguably changed the entire dynamic of that situation as Vardy was already ahead of ogbonna, and easily has the pace to outpace him.
And again, we have seen it time and time again and it’s been mentioned here on this site several times, that until refs start calling these fouls when players don’t go down, then there’s no onus for them to stay on their feet.
By all means, feel free to lambaste Vardy for embellishing his fall, I won’t fight you on that, but don’t deny he was clearly fouled first when through on goal. It shouldn’t matter what type of person Vardy is, and how many times one thinks Leicester has gotten unfair calls in their favour, if one really genuinely cares about these things being called right as most on this site claim, then it’s transparent when most didn’t even mention the incident in its entirety but chose to only focus on one aspect.
And also whether the tug started outside of the box is immaterial for 2 reasons:
1: if the hold starts outside the box and continues into the box (which you’re not denying) it’s a penalty. Also if you say he starts holding outside the box and the stills show Vardy being held several yards inside the penalty area it kind of rubbishes the claim that this was some kind of incidental “touch”.
2- Vardy is ahead of Ogbonna when the hold starts and is between Ogbonna and the ball, with nothing in front of him but the keeper and the goal. So even if it’s outside the box one can make a very reasonable argument that he is being denied a clear goal scoring opportunity. That Ogbonna and Vardy (who is one of the fastest players in the league) then more or less end up parallel where Vardy can then fall and throw his legs into him, is precisely because he was being held back and slowed down.
I actually don’t even blame the ref here, because from his angle it looked like he may not have been able to see the grab, but rather only Vardy’s embellished fall which was the culmination of him actually being fouled.
Vardy is an idiot for chastising the ref, and therefore has little recouse now to make a case.
Referees are always right. Even when they are wrong, they are right. Football is fixed. Just enjoy whatever is excites you.
For me, Wenger ball is quality.
Jojo,
If you cared to read the rules of the game you would know that the foul happens on the point where the contact is initiated, not where it finishes.
And btw, I’m not lambasting Vardy more than usual, and Ogbonna was indeed close to being sent off. But maybe the good outcome of that is that indeed the strikers will stop diving and the defenders will start being sent off for lesser contact than today. One can dream.