A perfect example of a game played under two different sets of rules

Posted on by WalterBroeckx

By Walter Broeckx

Two gooners meet in the pub last Sunday. One is a WOB.(Wenger Out Brigade). The other is a reader of Untold and called an AKB. I therefore put the W in front of the WOB and the A in front of the parts being said by the AKB.

WOB: It clearly is all Wenger’s fault. He should be kicked out after this.

A: Maybe the ref had some influence on the final result? Maybe the ref should have been kicked out?

W: No, you idiot it is all Wenger’s fault.

A: But look at the images of the foul on Per Mertesacker in the first minutes of the game. The Villa player clearly jumped in his back. Look.  (He grabs his laptop, links into the wireless connection kindly provided by the public house and types in https://hotfile.com/dl/240387805/b493f66/BFG_pen.avi.html) That is a clear foul and would have been given everywhere on the field. The ref punished Giroud every time he went in to a duel like that.

W: Okay, you might have a point but apart from that mistake what did Anthony Taylor do wrong that changed the result? Nah, mate I tell you it is all Wenger’s fault.

A: But what about the kicking against the ankles that Taylor almost never punished. Look at the game again.   It led to some injured Arsenal player after a while, which hardly helped us.  Look at it again.

W: Okay, you might have a point but apart from that mistake with the not given penalty for the foul on Mertesacker and the dozen of kicking against ankles that went unpunished you couldn’t say that the ref impacted the result. Nah, I tell you mate it is all Wenger’s fault.

A: But what about the wrongly awarded penalty on Koscielny who played the ball? Look at the replay.

W: Okay you might have a point, he did play the ball so it shouldn’t have been a penalty. But apart from the not given penalty for the foul on Mertesacker and the continuing  kicking against ankles of Arsenal players that went unpunished, the wrongly awarded penalty against Koscielny you couldn’t say the ref had an impact on the result. I tell you mate it is Wenger’s fault.

A: But what about the wrongly awarded yellow card against Koscielny at the penalty incident? That had an impact on the game! If the tackle was correct he shouldn’t have been booked.

W: Okay you might have a point. But  apart from the not given penalty for the foul on Mertesacker and the dozen of kicking against ankles that went unpunished, the wrongly awarded penalty against Koscielny, the wrongly given first yellow card against Koscielny, you couldn’t say the ref had an impact on the result. I tell you mate it is Wenger’s fault.

A: But what about the second yellow card against Koscielny? When minutes later he refused to give Vlaar a second yellow card for a more blatant foul on Rosicky? Look at the replays, look at the game.

W: Okay you might have a point. But  apart from the not given penalty for the foul on Mertesacker and the dozen of kicking against ankles that went unpunished, the wrongly awarded penalty against Koscielny, the wrongly given first yellow card against Koscielny, the wrongly given second yellow card and consequent red card you couldn’t say the ref had an impact on the result. I tell you mate it is Wenger’s fault.

A: And what about Agbonlahor?  He tripped Ramsey without any chance of getting the ball leading to him having an ankle injury without being booked and then later on got booked and this should have been a second yellow card.

W: Yeah all right that was a very cynical kick and should have been a yellow card. But  apart from the not given penalty for the foul on Mertesacker and the dozen of kicks against ankles that went unpunished, the wrongly awarded penalty against Koscielny, the wrongly given first yellow card against Koscielny, the wrongly given second yellow card and consequent red card, the not giving Agbonlahor a yellow and leading to him being sent off,  you couldn’t say the ref had an impact on the result. I tell you mate it is Wenger’s fault.

A: And what about the not given penalty for a foul on Wilshere? Vlaar clearly stuck out his arms to stop the run from Wilshere and brought him down in the penalty area. Look at the replay again.

W: Okay you might have a point. But  apart from the not given penalty for the foul on Mertesacker and the dozen of kicks against ankles that went unpunished, the wrongly awarded penalty against Koscielny, the wrongly given first yellow card against Koscielny, the wrongly given second yellow card and consequent red card, and the not given penalty for the foul on Wilshere you couldn’t say the ref had an impact on the result. I tell you mate it is Wenger’s fault.

A: So you agree with me now that Arsenal should have had 2 penalties, got a wrongly awarded penalty given against them, got a player wrongly sent off, had at least two Villa player not sent off with two yellow cards, got kicked off the pitch and the ref allowing it all and still you say the ref had no impact on the outcome of the game?

W: Of course mate, we all know everything is Wenger’s fault. No matter what the ref does or doesn’t do it is all down to Wenger. And it’s about time you realise it and wake up.

A: sigh….

A left the pub after that. Went home and looked at this video that he found on the internet. Judge yourself. A must see.  A perfect example of using two different sets of rules.

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175 Replies to “A perfect example of a game played under two different sets of rules”

  1. The media and the pundits all shout the mantra about bad decisions. ‘It all evens out in the end’. With out any evidence for the claim. But the mantra as some how become fact, When there isn’t any evidence for it.

    The media want us to believe and (many do) that their chosen ex player who is their mouth piece is an expert simply because he has played the game. Most players barely know the laws, never mind the problems of the manager etc.

    To objectively report on the refs on all a season’s league matches is a huge task but it is the only way to prove the mantra is no more than a myth.

    When you look at the map that locates EPL refs and see that there is none from London and South East and only one south of Birmingham. Do you say ‘Oh well it all evens out in the end’?

    When you take into account that refs are not allowed to explain decisions. Do you say ‘Oh well it all evens out in the end’?

    That at first the PGMOL’s website was an open site but now is closed. Do you say ‘Oh well it all evens out in the end’?

    When you follow the career of a ref who has refereed a Man U home game and Man U have lost and find that his career takes a downer. Do you say ‘Oh well it all evens out in the end’?

    When you see one team being kicked of the park while yellow cards handed out to the other team for the lightest of touches do you say? ‘Oh well it all evens out in the end’.

    Referees Decisions, is the start to end the myth.

  2. The ref had a shocker.

    Our squad is still in a shambles.

    Not sure how you don’t see that.

  3. so true, have had a conversation along these lines myself. Reminds me of a famous Monty Python sketch:

    REG: All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?

  4. First of all NO! Listening to commentator is not enough (on Koscienly conceding penalty). If you look carefully then you’ll noticed that kos’s right knee connects to agbonlawhores’ trailing leg before he makes contact with the ball. I think 2nd penalty was correct. The first one is debatable since i am not aware how giving advantage works when the foul is made in the box (blow the whistle and give penalty FFS). But it was foul nonetheless.
    We got agitated played bad and referee was an ass-hat as well. Not Wenger’s fault when your 7 first team players are injured.

  5. I suppose the ref whispered in our defenders ears, “Agbonlahor is Moses” and they all parted like the Red Sea.

    The game’s over so get over it. The ref was crap, we all know. Now unless the ref effects transfers for us I think he maybe devoid of blame for the threadbare nature of our squad.

  6. u r forgettin that shezny would have been redcarded for his tackle on agbonlahorr?as usual u fail to see!what about the thin bench we had?wenger is much to blame as the referee!being the gd person that u are u should also tell us where the ref got it wrong on villas side,u don just give for arsenal!i really pity us,and especially the majority of us who still think that everything is alright!personally i do not see us winning anything again with wenger!personalities aside!club is bigger than anybody!the next two weeks will be operation panic buy!he has already started with cabaye!the funny part is,still wenger is fronting derisory bids?he thinks he can get cabaye for ten mil,this is after newcastle had already stated he might go for over 20m!i respect wenger,but i think he has run out of ideas!it happens to everybody!

  7. Walter
    Again, we are back there. the Ref and their mistakes.
    Why not write about the mistakes of wenger concerning that match or maybe he does not have one. I dont see any difference between AKB and AAA. AKB blames outsiders for everything while AAA blames arsenal for everything. It is only arsenal fans that believe that ref are out to wicked and rob them. why i agree with some inconsistencies on ref part, our failure is not because of ref, look at the board and manager. What i want you to do is to look at our summer so far and tell us whether it has been a success or not. Why we are unable to recruit players. Let us leave ref for some time and discus what has gone wrong in arsenal. Why players shun us and leave us. Van Persie, Adebayor, Kolo Toure, Nasri, Clichy, Flamini, Hleb all left and won something whether on bench or in the field. Discus arsenal, leave ref for sometime now

  8. Now you’ve resorted to straw-man arguments. Just when I think you lot can’t get any more ridiculous, you do. Bravo.

    Look, I can do it too!

    I had a conversation with an AKB in a bar yesterday. He said Abou Diaby is nearly fit and would come save our season, just like Arsene planned. I said, hopefully Diaby can stay fit, but we really need at least one more defender, a defensive midfielder, at least one wide player, and one more striker to cover for our injuries and to keep up with the clubs around us. The AKB then accused me of trying to undermine the club and said I was an AAA. Sigh…

    See, pretty simple.

    The ref was horrible, agreed. The players we had on the pitch should have been able to win that game, agreed. Neither of those two things changes the fact that we only have 9 fit first-team players to play in the CL qualifier – two of whom are goalies. Wenger has made an absolute mess of this transfer window, and we are now scrambling to just fill the squad sheet, let alone trying to improve the team.

    But please Walter, continue posting your straw-man arguments.

  9. Results count! How they are achieved doesn’t, many managers have got the sack because of poor run of games(often with shocking refereeing thrown in)

    Wenger gets results or he gets the sack I support arsenal and if that means wenger stays and gets results I will be exstatic

  10. To the above posters,
    I don’t think anyone is denying the squad is thin (I haven’t seen anyone mention that anyway) but you can’t relate a thin squad to being the cause of very bad refereeing.

  11. Rupert Cook, actually the issue was not with the defenders but too big of a gap between the mid and the back 4. However, only one correct goal came from this parting.

    Transfer talk is some cheap cop out, as if that is the reason for the loss. That was irrelevant. Instead of blasting the ref, opportunistic Arsenal supporters turned on their team.

    No, It was not a correct penalty.

  12. Walter the game has passed mate. Whether you are right or wrong about the decisions frankly is irrelevant as we lost. It is Wenger’s decisions between now and Sept 2nd that will shape our season and, probably, his own future at the club.

  14. Canadian goober, no one can account for a host of injured players at the beginning of the season, that is not the reason you add players early out. That actually is a straw man argument you are making. Saying the ref impacted the game big time is not.

  16. The reason why the reffin in the PL does not change is due the attitude like those of GoonerDog. This is not something you just move on from because people just want big money signings. The integrity or supposed integrity of the game is more important. I say keep bringing it up.

  17. @sadshit – the way I saw that incident was that Koscielny got to the ball first i.e. he was in control of the ball – it was his ball as Agbonlahor had lost control of it.

    It was close and there was contact between the two players but contact does not automatically equate to a foul no matter what Alan Shearer on match of the day might tell you.

  18. Walter,

    The game was crap, our game was crap, the ref was crap, our luck was crap. Let’s get over it before you have to change the name of your blog to “Untold Excuses”!

  19. W.T.F. is an A.K.B. and a A.A.A. not to mention an F.F.S? Maybe I`m a geek or a nerd or simply an old bloke who is watching his Arsenal self destruct after sixty six years?

  20. Paul N – big money signings? Being able to field a proper defence this weekend would be nice and having a competent squad of 25 players. Harping on about ref decisions is frankly a red-herring to our fundamental problems.

  21. Many have said it already but while the referee was awful on Saturday he didn’t make huge mistakes other than not giving Wilshere a penalty in the second half or sending off Vlaar. You really have o look at the bigger picture and the stance of this website is becoming increasingly untenable as you defend the indefensible. While your loyalty to AW is laudable in one sense,in another it is the reason we are in this mess which is a result of pure and utter mismanagement by Arsenal and particularly Wenger.
    Please look at the bigger picture and stop trying to find examples of bias and prejudice which give you the impression of zealots and loonies.

  22. @Paul N, nobody’s denying there is poor refereeing in the league, it happens to lots of teams, not just ours. There is the usual concerted cry of conspiracies against Arsenal as if for some reason, unknown to all it seems, the whole league and every ref has got it in for us. I’m not suggesting you’re one of the barking mad brigade who imagines a whole team of men in a darkened room plotting the downfall of Arsenal, maybe you are, but we have to look beyond this game now, we can’t reclaim the 3 pts we lost, no matter how wrongly we’ve been done by.

    The issue is why have we got a skeleton squad when it’s plainly obvious that we have important matches in the first weeks of the season and very little back up when injuries happen, which they nearly always do.

    We’ve had plenty of articles explaining how hard it is for us to recruit players but none explaining how easy it is for Spuds to recruit them and they finished fifth. I’m beginning to wish we had, it might have spurred the club into action earlier.

  23. I still haven’t watched the game again. I will today. But I just saw the BFG video. That was a 100% penalty.

    And anyone saying Koscielny’s tackle was a penalty is just plain wrong. There is some level of contact in all tackles. Not all contact equals a foul (and there can be a foul without there being contact as well) That was a superb tackle, and the penalty was the wrong decision.

  24. @Auusie Jack, I suspect you’re kidding as you seem to know WTF stands for but in case you don’t know: AKB stands for Arsene Knows Best and AAA stands for Anti Arsenal Arsenal (don’t ask).

    There’s a new one I use, AGE, Arsene Great Economist.

    I love the argument that because Wenger got an economics degree he’s some genius at financial matters. Many of my friends got an English degree, it doesn’t mean they can write like Franz Kafka.

    And who do you think ran all those banks that got us in the economic mess we’re in? People who may have better economic qualifications than Wenger and yet they still cocked up.

  25. As you can see Agbonlahor was at it but I didn’t see any of our players to had a go at him. As much as I question the man in black I do feel from our side a lack of leader in the pitch.

    Do you think at Man u Agbonlahor will have the same stamina?
    Do you think Man u players will allow him to build that run of confidence ? No.
    Wenger can’t say anything meaningful after or during the game. Any thought of that is just reckless as the output is fine and warning for his future conduct.
    The likes of Ferdinand and Terry are not in their squad for football physical or technical side that side is past long time ago but they are still good to keep at bay malicious refs .

    Question is who do we got for that role.None.

  26. Rupert

    Whether it happens to just Arsenal, or other teams as well, is irrelevant. Even if it didn’t happen to Arsenal, it would still be wrong.

    you say the issue is the skeleton squad. But it isn’t THE issue. It is simply a issue. If you’d rather focus on that, that’s fine, but don’t go on about how it isn’t important to talk about football being ruined through the actions of the referee. I want to watch two teams play each other. Once the referee starts deciding results, it stops being a game of football. The game has always included refereeing errors because it is inescapable (and even when it is escapable, it is made so). But a performance like that should never be passed off as one of those things, as part of the game. It isn’t. It is a completely different game.

  27. I am missing something again only an idiot would think we are not going to sign players so after wenger signs 4-5 players will the wob suddenly say what a great manager he is because that seems To be the main stay of contention no they will say its panic buys he does not know what he is doing
    COME ON. LETS HAVE A DEAL IF WENGER BUYS. NO”ONE I will become a wob but if he buys players which is what your screaming for you become Akb. No I did not think so Its just a witch hunt by prats who do not have any success in there private lives listen to talk sport to make up for there Failings in the bedroom oh and I predict we are going to smash the Turks and qualify for the champs league FOR THE SEVENTEENTH SEASON ON THE. TROT YOU DECIDE WHO’S THE IDIOT

  28. @Shard, I meant the most important issue at this present moment. Ref performances will always be an issue as long as every decision is not decided by outside influences such as cameras and if that happened the game would take half a day to complete.

    We have two very important games against Fenerbache and that is the main issue. And from that comes the worry over our threadbare squad. I’m sure there’ll be more questionable ref decisions on the night but until then we have to hope the club gets a few players in soon.

    @The Font, I think you’re an idiot predicting any game of football. I thought we’d beat Bradford and Blackburn and we didn’t. Unexpected outcomes make football interesting. I still find it hard to believe we lost to Wrexham all those years ago.

  29. goonerdog, again, no expects a host of injuries and for that matter bogus red cards being handed out. However, the point is people are bitching because of the loss as if a lack of players was the problem when it was not.

    If you want to talk about a lack of signings so be it, but lets us not overlook a crap ref. I wonder, would there be as much complaining had we won the game? I say no. Which is back to my main contention that the loss and signings were lumped together. Which is bogus.

  30. The font

    Absolutely true. Arsenal will be criticised no matter what they do.

    If we bought the players Spurs bought, we’d be told that they aren’t good enough. Soldado is no Cavani. Why didn’t we buy Suarez etc etc.
    If we wait to buy better players late (CL is a factor that might decide if better players will move to us) we’ve failed in the window already. No matter who we get.
    If we do buy slightly lesser players, they will be panic buys.
    If we have to spend more money (not necessarily true) to buy players late in the window, that shows Arsenal are bad, when they are simply showing then that they don’t care about the money, rather about getting their targets. Which was apparently also bad.

    The only thing that might satisfy people is, if we’d bought all the best players (though whoever we buy will never be considered in that category) early, at a reasonable price. In other words, perfection. It doesn’t matter that other clubs and players have their own agendas. It doesn’t matter what Arsenal’s compulsions are. No.. Arsenal aren’t perfect, equals Arsenal are incompetent. Arsenal have flaws, equals Arsenal have failed.

  31. Rupert Cook, bad calls is one thing but when it seems that a ref has an agenda that is on a different level. And it does not even out.

  32. Also, if bids were accepted there would have been signings. The current meme seems to forget that. United cannot even buy one central mid, mind you.

  33. EVERYONE here is debating, at present all we know is nothing has gone done to plan.

    Yes the ref is crap.
    Yes the squad is thin.
    Yes the lack of signings is disheartening fans.

    Let’s see what happens Wednesday.

  34. “Ref performances will always be an issue as long as every decision is not decided by outside influences such as cameras and if that happened the game would take half a day to complete.”

    False, false, and false

    Ref performances are not always an issue even now. I watched Liverpool-Stoke (although while doing other things)and though there might have been some debatable, or even wrong decisions that the referee took, that is not the same thing as a referee’s performance in a game. There’s decisions, such as who a throw in should be awarded to, whether the player was offside by a few inches, and then there’s decisions like penalties, red cards. And don’t tell me it’ll take half a day to play the game. That’s scare mongering without basis because it hasn’t been tried to be done, in any format yet.

    Then there is a referee performance where one team is entirely cramped by the referee’s handling of the game. Where the flexibility of the interpretation of the laws accorded to the referee is abused in favour of one team. This has nothing to do with football. It isn’t a sport that we know at this point. It is corruption. Whether that involves money or not. Once the subconscious bias (which might exist) enters the realm of conscious decision making it is 100% corruption. Motivation doesn’t matter. If a referee knowingly tilts the pitch, he is corrupt. And that deserves much more of a mention than some stupid transfer rumours.

  35. @Paul N. I never said it evened out. Never believed it did. The ref’s inability to do a decent job maybe prior to him having an agenda.

    And you have to make sensible bids. Now apparently we bid 10 million for Cabaye. Seriously does anyone believe Newcastle won’t sell one of their better players for that piddling amount. You always make a low bid but that’s just ridiculous and if we’ve been playing that game with other bids then we’ll get nowhere. Just conjecture. I have no idea what goes on when we try to buy players.

  36. Rupert, if the ref is no good then why is he in the league?

    What are sensible bids? Actually, I think buying players has been messed up by a few idiotic teams. 10 mil is a good starting point. It’s not like teams are knocking down newcastles door for the player.

  38. Rupert

    Once again, you are willing to criticise Arsenal without knowing any pertinent facts. First, you don’t know that the bid is for 10m. Let’s say it is. You don’t know what Newcastle want for him. Is it your contention we go in for an offer which is immediately acceptable? And do you think even if that happens, Newcastle will accept it and not ask for more?

    Let’s face it. None of us know the facts behind the case. None have experience of regularly conducting multi million pound negotiations. Only some of us are willing to always criticise Arsenal for something that is entirely unknown. ‘If we don’t know, it must be Arsenal’s fault. If it isn’t Arsenal’s fault, prove me wrong.’

    And if the bid was that ridiculous so as to not even be worthy of consideration, would Cabaye have been left out? Perhaps.

    But like I said, we know nothing of what is happening. Stop blaming Arsenal for your ignorance in these matters. It’s annoying.

  39. So does anyone have any proof about : it all evens out?

    The season before last season we did our reviews and we found…that it DIDN’T EVEN OUT!

    Last season we did our reviews and I don’t want to give anything away yet but I can tell you that once again for Arsenal it didn’t even out!

    Those who say “it does even out” are just poor souls who believe the mantra sang to them by the media. I have evidence of the contrary. NOBODY and I challenge all and everyone to prove us wrong has evidence that it evens out!

  40. @The font
    People like you are the reason why we have declined from the Invincibles to also rans.. danger of falling even further behind… You are happy with mediocrity.. Qualified for champs league!!!! give me a break, we are ARSENAL, we always go for trophies.. well at least in my mind we always do…

    Dont give me examples of Spuds or Liverpool or any other club and how happy they will be in our position… they should not be our competition… that should be Manu U , City and Chelsea.. U know.. if we really wanna progress….

    I dont live in UK, and I dont invest in Season tickets and yet I am pissed.. just think of the guys who fork out hard earned cash to watch this dross…. every single year..

    FFS, this was the seaso when no one left (I mean the ones that matter).. we knwe we had Champs League qualification.. we knew Chelsea under Mourinho will be out of the blocks in a flash.. there was no SAF… City had a new manager.. we finished above supds to grab a champs league spot, which should have given us access to better players… yet what happened…
    It is not about being an AKB or AAA or whatever you wanna call, it’s about thinking about your club and sad to say, we are plummeting at the moment.. and it was avoidable, these points are undeniable…

  41. @Rupert Cook,
    One day, but not in my lifetime, there will be technical assistance so as to ensure fairness in football. But as far as Arsenal FC is concerned, there will always be the defeats clutched from the jaws of victory and vice versa.
    Going back to when I was 10 and Walsall beat us in the FA Cup. We then went on to win the 1st Division Championship 4 months later!

  43. The ref might have been shit. He might have cost us the game. We might have lost anyway. Who knows for sure?

    All that matters now is that Wenger invests in the squad. I hope it’s not a case of too little too late, and we crash out of CL and ruin our season. Let’s pray that doesn’t happen. If it does not work out in the next few days naturally there’s only one person who can be held responsible.

  44. Walter, now that the ref has been dropped by the PGMOL for this week’s matches and assuming that that is in response to the recognition of his criminal performance, do we have any chance in having Kos’s red rescinded? In my view we also are within our rights to have the match replayed, but I cannot see the FA allowing that – but surely the Kos decision can be re-examined.

  46. Walter, it sure like you think there’s a ref conspiracy against us. Aided by the media?

    Do you have any evidence? Or it just a speculative theory? If it’s the former can i strongly recommend that you take it to the police, football authorities and media. Maybe the international media if that’s safer.

    I’m pretty sure it’s an explosive story.

  47. @Shard, perhaps if you weren’t so blinded with rage at my posts you might have read the rest of it. I said it’s all conjecture as is nearly everything posted on this blog. I usually accept that the majority of what I write and what you and many others write is conjecture, no matter how well argued the point maybe.

    @Paul N. I don’t know what I’d pay for Cabaye but I suspect that as Newcastle think he’s one of their best players, and this the EPL where so many player’s prices are inflated, they’d want at least twice that. Also they know we’re desperate for players so they’ll squeeze the most out of us.

  48. @Shard, when I said ref issues will always be an issue I meant on this site. Sorry I didn’t make that clear. Sorry you wasted your time responding to something I didn’t clarify.

  49. @ Walter
    Why don’t we do our part by having players who can win the game and leave the other part of the game which don’t have control over? How long will we keep up with the nonsense of crying over the referees decisions or are u intending to sue the referee or PMOL?
    Bad calls from referees or not, results is what counts and i can recall Arsenal used to win many matches even with a 1 player red carded! We have to just admit that Wenger & the Board are perfectly setting our once great club to fail and the writings are already there for all to see. For few who are still deluded like you can continue keeping the faith but the truth is soon coming out unless something serious is done to save the face.

  50. The topic here is the referee Anthony Taylor and his highly dubious performance on Saturday.

    Walter I’m surprised you haven’t gone back and looked at our previous with this Official in order to ascertain a pattern.

    If I remember correctly Arsenal’s first encounter with Anthony Taylor came against Birmingham in January 2011.

    Anthony Taylor was then the 4th official when Lee Bowyer disgracefully stamped on Bacary Sagna’ leg, right in front of Mr Taylor’s position by the halfway line.

    http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/9968/comment-page-1#comments

    Some 2 months later and once again Arsenal have the misfortune to encounter the delights of Mr Taylor. This time he takes full control of our match; Arsenal V Sunderland March 5th 2011.

    Arsenal were challenging for the title during this period and this match was played before Man Utd’s game this particular weekend, 3 points were vital for Arsenal.

    During the match and 0-0 at the time, Arshavin is clearly pushed from behind inside the penalty area by Sunderland’s Titus Bramble but Mr Taylor refuses to award Arsenal the penalty kick.

    http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/11265/comment-page-1#comments

  51. My dad always used to say, ‘son, never worry about the things you can’t do anything about, concentrate your efforts on the things you can do something about.’

    Arsenal have very little control on the behaviour of refs, but are completely in control of their own transfer business. This is the bottom line.

    Walter, you need to understand this point. Please tell me, in retrospect, was it sensible for the club to leave the transfer business till now when you consider we have a qualifier tomorrow and a pretty threadbare squad? Please answer and show some sort of sense of a balanced argument!!

  52. @Nicky, yes but when you were 10 we had no qualms about buying the best players at premium prices. Those days are long gone, it seems. Some people on here have no sense of history and think Wenger made Arsenal a big club. Chapman did that years ago and built a far better stadium too. Since then we’ve abdicated from our commitment to battle out at the top level on numerous occasions, let’s hope that’s not the case now.

  53. Accepting that there were numerous poor refereeing made that affected the outcome of the game we still made plenty of mistakes and were sloppy in possession, too many passes went astray and there were some bad tactical decisions made by Wenger – Cazorla coming on when clearly not fit, while Podolski sat on the bench?!?

    You only have to look at the current fit bodies in the first team ahead of a Champions League qualifier to see that Wenger and the club have been negligent in their approach to transfers.

    Once again as in 2011 we are being reactive to a situation brought about by a manager who has lost the plot.

    Einstein defined insanity very well, he said it was “doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”.

    If we lose the Fenerbahce games then there will be no one to blame but Wenger. How you do not see that he is responsible for the mess we are in amazes me.

  54. Rupert

    It’s not rage, it’s annoyance and exasperation. It doesn’t matter if you said it’s all conjecture at the end. You are displaying a starting point of blaming Arsenal. Regardless of what is known, you, and many others, will make, and propound the assumption that Arsenal don’t know what they are doing. Some, like you, qualify that assumption at the end. But that assumption still stands, and that is what annoys me. Because if Arsenal fans themselves always start abusing their club in this way, without evidence, without reason, then what chance does the club have in the media? Or maybe I’m mixing up the action and reaction there.

    And if you think the media image doesn’t matter, think again. It affects very widely the perception of the club, which in turn affects the club in their efforts. On the field, the perception of Arsenal being soft helps referees get away with allowing Arsenal to be kicked. The perception that Arsenal are in crisis makes it harder for Arsenal to negotiate deals because other clubs feel that Arsenal’s need is greater than theirs. Players will feel inclined to demand more from Arsenal because they feel they can. And yes, this is also the club’s fault. They should have paid more attention to the loss of image, and perhaps done more to counter it, despite having limited options in that regard. But it isn’t entirely down to them either. And even if it were (which it isn’t) why would you want to add to Arsenal’s woes by being a party to it. It’s not constructive, and most likely is not even true. An incompetent organisation does not finish in the top 20% of a competitive league, does not manage to build and move stadium on time and on budget, and does not manage to sign multimillion endorsement deals. And yet, you want to assume so and add to that perception? Why? Why is that your ‘belief’?

  55. The Arsenal fans that are upset are not just upset at this game, it’s the continual denial that something needs to be done for 8 years.

    The penny pinching, putting up season tickets by 6.5% and not spending the extra on new players,£160 million in the bank,the poor tactics etc etc…….

    Jamie Carragher had it right las tnight when he said the only people paying over the odds at Arsenal are teh fans who buy tickets.

  56. Chapman built a stadium??

    and if referee performances will always be an issue on this site, then I’m glad. Someone needs to talk about it rather than turn a blind eye to it. It’s beyond Arsenal and Arsenal’s failings.

  58. @ Shard

    These perceptions have not started with the Arsenal fans though. They have been built up over years and at teh time they were conceived ther were probably true.

    We finish in the top 20% of a competitive league but we are in heh top 2% of clubs in europe in terms of turnover so is that rerally a great achievement?

    In terms of turnover we are the same size as Bayern Munich. Do we behave like a club of Bayern’s size? Something is not quite right at the club a blind man acn see that.

    Should we still support the club? Absoloutely yes. Should we hold teh club accountable for what’s going on at the moment? Definately.

  59. MOW,
    do I have any evidence?

    I have facts. Facts gathered over the years.

    But unlike in Italy (FFS) where the police and justice department is willing to dig in to these matters the English system is not interested at all.

  60. I love coming on here for a lively debate and exchange of ideas ,and I understand there’s always two sides to every argument. Having said that,Walter you have to say something negative about Wenger if you want to be taken seriously by anyone anymore, anything really . I know you love and idolize the guy so I’m not asking for much. Never mind Wenger not spending a single penny so far in the TW ,thus practically guaranteeing having to pay over the adds for any new player now.Never mind his ridiculous press conference comments e.g something about throwing money from the Eiffel Tower , or asking reporters for names of players who might be available. Never mind …well, we all know the list of gripes against Wenger , no need to recite . How about.. his coat is too long!, can you give me this much, please! @Shard. Referee was terrible , incompetent and without any feel for the game. Was he biased, or crooked ? I don’t know, I’m not inside his head. I do know however that too many rules are wooly enough to call any potential foul any given way e.g getting a touch on the ball doesn’t always equal to a clean tackle. There are other factors involved. Just us bringing down a player in the penalty box doesn’t always equal a penalty e.g. If a player brought down is deemed to have lost control of the ball by kicking it out of play before contact. What shouldn’t be open for debate anymore is that Arsenal squad are too thin ( I’m sorry Walter I meant streamlined), they lack debt and quality(sorry again Walter I meant to say Wenger is promoting the future stars from within the ranks), and as the Squad stands , they have absolutely no chance to win a title( I mean they are title contenders). Keep up the good work Walter ! Can’t wait to read your next post , you crack me up!!!!

  62. Matt

    We are similar in terms of turnover only this year, not for 8 years. Not even close. We have more financial commitments from our income, and unlike Bayern, we compete with artifically fuelled teams in our domestic league which restricts the pool of players available to us.

    The perceptions have been created through the media, where they have forced it down people’s throats that a lack of trophies indicates definite failure, and that transfer spending equals ambition. Once those premises are accepted, people just use every little flaw of Arsenal to reinforce the perception of failure. And the successes don’t matter anymore. It is something Arsenal can have little control over. If people decide to follow the media narrative as they see them as a more unbiased source, that’s on them.

    Something is not right. This is always true of every organisation in the world. There is no organisation that runs perfectly. But because the media has succeeded in getting people to turn a microscope onto the club, these ‘wrongs’ are blown out of all proportion and supposed to be proof of failure.

  63. @Shard, I don’t think Arsenal is incompetent. When it comes to business deals we seem ok. And again that’s conjecture too because none of us know if we couldn’t have got better deals. But those we did get seem extremely good.

    I’m sure Kronke is extremely happy. Arsenal don’t have to spend much money and the money keeps flooding in. Or do you think he’s really upset we lost to Villa? Maybe he is. Who knows? Yet we don’t hear much from him. We try to buy Suarez and ol’ J W Henry wonders what Wenger’s smoking. Does Kronke respond? No, not a peep. So the image the media have, and the fans too, is we have an owner who couldn’t care less as long as he’s seeing profits. Is this a fair assessment? Possibly.

    And when were we in crisis? Not this summer. We’ve been bragging to the media and the fans about how much money we’ve got to spend and the media have hardly called us a club in crisis. That started at the final whistle on saturday afternoon.

    You’re right, there is a perception of Arsenal that is built up by the media, much of it without a lot of foundation, but some of it may not be wide of the mark. The club has to take some responsibility which even you admit.

    I don’t add anything to Arsenal’s woes by questioning what goes on at the club. I mean I respect your high opinion of me but what I say disappears into the cyber ether as quickly as I click on post comment.

    If I had started a blog where I slagged off everything Arsenal did maybe I would be part of the problem but I haven’t and I also don’t think everything the club does is bad. It’s not black and white which so many people on here think it is, with the exception of yourself and a few others .

  64. @Shard, that Chapman built a stadium was aimed at all those that say Wenger built a stadium. He didn’t build it with his bare hands. It was Chapman’s vision that saw Arsenal build Highbury and get the underground to rename Gillespie Road to Arsenal.

  66. Shard, if you listen to many of the upset fans you’ll hear a lot of articulate and reasonable arguments explaining their issues and providing reasonable arguments why the club’s leadership should be held accountable for what they perceive as its shortcomings. These arguments have gathered momentum over the years with both ordinary loyal Gooners and some sections of the media precisely because they are both reasonable AND compelling. Rather than get frustrated with any sort of criticism directed at the club wouldn’t it be more enlightening to listen to the more reasonable and articulate arguments made and try and understand them?

  67. Rupert

    Arsenal was playing at Highbury well before Chapman came on the scene.

    Wenger didn’t build the Grove with his bare hands, but he was involved in the planning processes, and his achievements on the field have allowed the transition to take place as smoothly as it’s done. There is no need to try and belittle a truly amazing achievement. Chapman was a brilliant manager whose light shines through through all these years. There is no reason to compare them anyway, although I understood why you were doing it, but for all Chapman’s contributions to Arsenal, the building of Highbury is not among them.

  68. Rupert cook if you think I am a idiot for predicting a football match would you think I am a genius if we do beat the Turks no I did not think so. Just like the wob . Cheap remark you win if iam wrong you win if iam right Be careful that fence is starting to wobble

  69. @MoW

    My impression is that Shard is one of the most logical of thinkers and equally has the ability to articulate logically, sequentially and accurately. I am not sure what your gripe with him is.

    Should your advice to listen to the arguments of others be equally applied to those who debate with him? If so, why did you not make that point – or have you a closed mind?

    Anyway, Shard is more than capable of responding himself.

  70. @Shard . So according to you if Wenger bought the best players available ,somehow people would say those players weren’t best at all just because it was him who bought them?. I think your frustration from trying to defend indefensible is making you irrational now. Stop it ! You’re just being silly now. Wenger’s transfer failings have less to do with not being able to identify the right targets but rather with not being able to close the deal , no matter the price range. Here’s some examples from most to least expensive.1 Suarez’ Liverpool evaluation at 55> million- Wenger bid 40 million. 2. Higuain was sold for 34 and change- Wenger’s bid 23million. 3 Gustavo went for 20million- Wenger’s bid 14 million. Gary Cahill went to Chelsea for about 7 million- Wenger’s bid just over 4million. So you see no matter the price range , Wenger’s low baling potential targets by about 30 % below market value is what makes him a failure in the market , not the pundits or fans’ opinion.

  71. Great to see the insight of some people who said that Chapman was the creator of Highbury.

    Oh Tony, you better stop the history blog by now… You have been wasting your time by saying it was Norris who build it… Ok I admit not with his own hands 😉

  72. One things for sure this morning, is that the club are getting a pasting in the media, I havent seen such mass hysteria before. Pardew reckons that its our fault that the Toon got a thrashing last night(!).
    Now theres the revelations about the Oxs contract clauses with Southampton-although how can anyone ever trust the Daily Mail after their shady historical political line? This is just building up and up, and the chas-head hacks wont be satisfied until Wengers out-a major scalp this season!
    Looking at the speculative team list, I personally reckon we can beat Fenerbahce who are being hyped up too much whilst we are being beaten down.
    Again I feel sorry for the players who need our support and who aren’t getting it.Booing at half time against Villa was pathetic. Spoilt kids, spoilt by the Wenger years,ironically.I just hope we beat Fenerbahce in both legs and buy some players and everyone calms down so we can get on with the season!
    COYG!
    Amen.

  73. MoW

    When did I refuse to listen to reasonable arguments? I agree they are there, and I don’t deny Arsenal’s flaws anyway. But do feel that the negativity created from outside the club, has led to a sense of proportion being lost. Flaws and mistakes are a part of any club’s working. At Arsenal these mistakes are highlighted, dissected, and theorised over endlessly. This in turn creates it’s own perceptions, including myths, lies and half truths. Arsenal make mistakes. Mistakes do not equal failure. If the club are a laughing stock (as some fans seem to feel) we should also be questioning our role in it as fans because objectively, building a new stadium, finishing in top 4 every year, despite the lack of trophies, should not qualify as a joke. Even if you take into account the not spending money (which has stadium as a reason behind it, at least to a large extent) I don’t see why it should make Arsenal subjected to a microscopic analysis. Especially a malicious one. Which it is, sadly without most of the people doing it even realising it.

  74. Tom

    If Wenger (assuming he does the bidding)ALWAYS underbids from the required price, then how have Arsenal managed to buy any players at all? There goes your entire post out the window right there. And that’s even taking your figures at face value. You have zero idea how negotiations are conducted. Just because Liverpool say 55m doesn’t mean you give it to them. Although yes, sometimes, maybe it does. This probably wasn’t one of those times, or we didn’t have the budget to go that far. It needs more analysis to look at something like this beyond, Wenger always bids 30% under the asking price.

  77. To be fair though if you were really trying to buy Suarez you wouldn’t have bid £40million plus £1. This was always going to upset Liverpool and make them dig there heels in.

    When looking at our 1st team squad everyone can see we are short on numbers as a bare minimum. When you compare the squads of Arsenal and heh other big clubs in the PL we look behind in terms of quality also.It’s undeniable.

    After all the Gazidis bluster in June we actually have a weaker squad than last year and that is frustrating for the fans who finally thought this year would be a turning point.

  78. Walter – you merely have an opinion, just like the rest of us, not facts.

    Paul N – injuries and red cards are not beyond the realms of impossibility so a manager should have a team and a bench to reasonably cater for such possibilities – unless you have ours!

    “Man U cant even sign a midfielder” – they are the champions and just stuffed a good Swansea side 4-1 away. Last time I checked they were some 20pts better than us last season. With or without an extra midfielder they will compete, regrettably (although i would love to be proven wrong) at present we won’t.

  79. MoW

    Basically, I think it is legitimate to want some answers from the club and to see what some structural problems might be. But that has to be divorced from the frustrations of the results (no trophies, transfer market etc) Because without that level of semi-detachment, the demand is really only about the results, and the search for answers becomes only about scapegoating, rather than a constructive exercise.

  80. Matt

    Why is that being fair? Who is that being fair to? When have you known any club to be criticised for making a bid matching the clause? The one pound on top was because Suarez’s contract stated bids above 40m as the figure. Not 40m. But sure, if Arsenal had thrown in a couple of million as a freebie, liverpool would definitely have been much happier. They wouldn’t have felt any more generous or kindly disposed towards Arsenal though. They would still have negotiated to the hilt.

  81. @Matt

    It’s very brave of Jamie Carragher to have a pop at Arsenal in the current climate, isn’t it? I bet you’ll never hear him say anything remotely like that about his beloved Liverpool regardless of what comes there way this season. Their recent history of mismanagement is far, far worse than ours, as have their results, but he’ll never come up with gibes like this one.

    All it means is that he’s joined the club of Arsenal haters in the media like Hanson and Shearer. At least Neville can be critically objective without taking cheap shots.

  82. Shard. Thanks for your engagement. I didn’t mean to do you a disservice. Clearly you listen. I’m on a rickety old train in the Hungarian countryside. I just lost my last lengthy response. Debate is tricky for me now. I’ll try and come back later.

  83. I disagree that was not a bid designed to sign the player. Of course they would have negotiated but wouldn’t have felt we had taken the piss. Add the fact that his contract didn’t state that and the whole thing becomes embarrasing.

    I like what you say in your next post though about detatching the debate about what needs doing from transfers and trophies to get to the bottom of the problems though. This is a debate the club and fans need to have to try and get us all pulling in teh same direction again.

  84. Just because you get the ball it doesn’t mean it is not a penalty.Koz fouled Gabby,it was a penalty.You don’t understand the laws of the game.What about the two yellow cards Rosicky should have been given,by the letter of the law in the first half? No.lets ignore that because it doesn’t suit our agenda.Tell you what,why don’t you do something useful and write an article about the debacle of the Arsenal academy? How they haven’t won a game this season, even losing to a Colchester Youth team.Colchester? How the coaches are incompetent .But no,because Arsenal have bought a few youths from other clubs like Zelalem,lets pretend the Arsenal youth set up is brillant.Dan Crowley is a mug coming here from Villa.The club is a mess,but lets stick our heads in the sand and blame refs,the media,Chelsea,everyone but Arsene bloody Wenger,Stan bloody Kroenke and Ivan the lying snake.PATHETIC.

  85. @ Stroller

    Who else does pay top dollar at the club for anything then?
    I dont care about Liverpool’s mismangement just what is going on at Arsenal.

  86. Although Matt, I do agree with you that the squad needs more additions. Apart from a striker, we don’t really need first choice players (although they would be welcome. I’m talking about need) Our first 11 is quite good. But we need bench strength that can maintain that quality.

    So we’re short of players. We both agree. Do you think Arsene Wenger wouldn’t agree? In fact, he already does. He’s said so. So, it’s obviously not out of choice. Ideally, Wenger, like the fans, would want the players to have come in early.

    So the question is why haven’t they. The CL qualification issue could be a complication especially to buy players from other CL clubs. The fact that this is a world cup year could be an issue with players reluctant to move to be a backup. Money might well be an issue too, although I’m not sure it’s as much of an issue anymore.

    If the club has certain targets, who will only come after we qualify for CL (if we do) would you want the club to keep pursuing them, or go for maybe lesser targets who can be bought before the start of the season? There’s no right or wrong answer here. But you can bet that whichever choice Arsenal make (seems like they’ve made the first) will be called a bad one.

    Or you can believe Arsenal don’t intend to get anyone in, and that the squad clearout was for nothing other than to save money. We’ll find out, but that would be saying Wenger is willingly sabotaging the club (and his reputation) Think about that before you say YES HE IS. That is a bigger ‘conspiracy theory’ than any put on this site. And yet, it doesn’t seem implausible. Right? Why is that? Because it’s been repeated so often in the media (in tone, if not in words) that it seems less outlandish than it should. (The converse is true of the referees)

  87. Walter. I’ll keep it short. Do your facts add up to irrefutable evidence? Or at least extremely compelling? If so I’d urge you to share and attempt to expose. And persuade. Starting with ordinary Arsenal fans.

  88. Goonerdog,
    at least my opinion is based on facts.

    I think by now I have supervised/reviewed more than 400 games in total in the last seasons. And the numbers tell their story.
    That is if you want to read.

    And upon those +400 games I can say that I have facts.

  89. “Same stuff, different season”

    I’m struggling to think of a criticism, other than that we don’t seem to be able to cope without Arteta (who is one of the finest central midfielders in Europe, £10m) – we got an early goal but were too open through the centre once again. Tactically, with a one goal lead we should change our way of playing to balance offence and defence, we didn’t and the referee punished us. Therein lies the problem, to buy another Arteta in the current market requires spending £25m at least on a player who will be a deputy.

    If you don’t rate Arteta, I’m sorry for you, help is available,

  90. Go to Arsenal much the Font?Tell you what,meet me at the bear roundabout before the Tottenham game and i will show you what a prat i am.

  91. @Shard . You presume to know something about my negotiation skills even though you haven’t got a clue as to who I am and what I do for a living.Whoever does negotiating for Arsenal does so with Wenger’s full knowledge and approval ( if its not Wenger himself) . There could be many reasons for Arsenal having managed to sign players in the past. Good scouting, good timing and lack of interest from other clubs . That’s not the point. No one is saying you should pay asking prices if don’t want to. I would never pay 55 million for Suarez anyway. The point is you can’t come out guns blazing Gazidis style how no player is beyond our reach and whimper out at the first sign of competition and price escalation. It’s simply being inconsistent. The examples I gave you were not of asking prices(except Suarez’) but rather of selling prices. Everyone knows its a sellers market and in such market you won’t be able to get marque signings at 30% discount .

  92. Yes Walter, what you claim to be facts though are based on your opinions of descisions so they are not facts.

  93. Mow, Goonerdog,

    are you new to this site?

    If not then you are of bad will. If yes I suggest you click on a few links on the main page where the words “review” are mentioned.

    Read, learn, and then come back. And you can be critical.

    But over the years we have examined + 40.000 (forty thousand) decisions of referees. All in the open and where anyone has and had the possibility to challenge any of our calls on those decisions.

    I suggest you go over them like I and our reviewing team have done of the years and then come back and tell us where we were wrong.

  94. Matt

    You can’t have it both ways with Suarez’s contract. Either it was a bid designed to trigger a clause (and hence buy the player) or else it isn’t embarrassing about the clause because it was simply a negotiation tactic.

    There quite clearly is a clause in Liverpool’s contract that said bids ABOVE 40m. Arsenal were led to believe that it was a release clause and they acted accordingly. And in the process they might have lost out on Higuain. Not good at all, and we won’t be making an error like that again, but if you believed Suarez was better than Higuain, and that he was available for MORE money than Higuain, what would you do? You could either get Higuain and be happy you got a very good player. Or you could be willing to spend more money and get what you thought was a better player. The actions turned out wrong, and for that Arsenal deserve some criticism. But the intention was to spend more money, and to go for a better player. Can’t criticise that.

  95. Well Matt, care to give your “opinion” on the decisions?

    Let us take an example. Germany – England WC 2010

    A shot from Lampard crosses the line but no goal is given.
    Did the ball cross the line? For me: yes.

    Now is that a fact? Or is this an opinion?

  96. Tom

    I said what I did based on what you displayed. Even so, I might have jumped the gun on that, so I apologise. However, I also did not say asking price. I said required price.

    About Gazidis’ statements. I agree, to some extent. However two things. Firstly, and this is big…The transfer window hasn’t shut. So to pass judgments in that regard is premature, and something that the whole Arsenal blogosphere seems to be doing following the referee inspired result on Saturday.

    Secondly, Gazidis’s statements weren’t made on the spur of the moment or in isolation. They were reacting to a certain environment being built up around the club. I thought it was to do with the fans earlier, and while that might be true as well, I have now come to change my thinking and feel that Gazidis was speaking to players’ agents at that point. It was like a message to all agents, even those representing players at the elite level, to keep us in mind and keep us informed when looking for buyers. The football transfer market apparently is driven more by agents than is generally thought, and this was an invitation to Arsenal’s house warming party in the posh neighbourhood.

  97. That’s a fact. Kosielny fouls Agbonlahor for the 2nd penalty
    You decide no penalty. Fact or Opinion?

  98. I get the sentiments of the post and I sympathise with Walter’s POV but this post doesn’t really change or add to the argument.

    We should have won the game. We didn’t.
    We didn’t deserve to lose but we did.
    Aston Villa played well. Good luck to them
    The ref had a shocker.
    Defensively ARsenal were poor.

    Now for the other issues. It is not all down to Wenger. I dont believe all this gumph that he runs everything. Gazidis and his teamare or should be responsible for closing out transfers. If they are not then they should be. End of. I agree the transfer window to date has been poor but that is an all round AFC management team failing not just Wenger but includes Wenger. They are all collectively to blame.

    It makes no sense replacing the manager in August or September. If it was going to be done it should have be done in MAy…again a board decision. I want him to stay and stick it to those that are throwing vile abuse and insults at him.

    We did not play with a recognised defensive midfield player on Saturday and it showed.

    @Matt cut out the 8 years rubbish We built a great big new stadium. That is a long term plan. Yes we have money now. We should spend it. Wisely. Yes we pay a lot. Yes I agree the club should be managing themselves better.

  99. Matt

    Very clever. But you miss the point.

    What Walter holds are facts. They are facts of a study. If you feel that the findings in that study were misrepresented, you are free to pore through them and put out points of disagreements over the little factoids in there. In the end, we will see if your version of facts, holds up well against Walter’s version of facts. If not, then we can say there are conflicting set of facts and evaluate accordingly, or perhaps change the methodology. But until you do that, you are just amusing yourself and nothing more.

  101. Watching that video the thing that stood out the most for me was how he gave kos to yellow cards for NOTHING, at the most one yellow, and failed to give villa players yellow cards for worse offences. That performance wasn’t incompetence, it was simply BENT.

  102. Also Matt. Walter’s study is in a sense also in response to figures, which he refused to accept. The figure of 50-50 split in bad decisions popularised by the media “it all evens out in the end”. The figure of 96% (or some such insane number) accuracy in decisions put out by the referees chiefs. They might be absolutely correct, but their methodology is under lock and key. Their findings are under lock and key except the final figure that they reveal. If you have a problem with Walter’s study, perhaps, in the interest of fairness, you might demand, as a start, the same standards of transparency from the PGMOL? I mean, if you care enough to show up Walter as wrong, surely you care enough about the truth?

  103. Ahh..Stop playing the fool Matt. It’s not clever.

    They are facts. Unless you challenge the basis on which they stand, which is what you did. I simply didn’t say that is wrong, because it isn’t. But your challenge is hollow without an alternate theory.

    Is it a fact that 2+2=4?

    Only if you accept the number system for what it is. But if you don’t, to have an opinion on the matter at all, you need to devise a new branch of mathematics which makes the reliance on the axiom of 2+2=4 redundant.

  104. @Matt

    I’m not defending ticket prices, but let’s not pretend that they are anything other than a business decision for the club. If you can fill a stadium and still have a season ticket waiting list, then whether we win or lose they are set right.

    There is no moral tariff that links prices with results. Fans see it differently, but that’s the way it is. And it’s no different for other clubs whether they charge more or less than we do. That’s how football is run these days – everywhere, including Jamie’s Liverpool.

  105. @Matt

    I would further add that it delusional to think that what we pay for tickets is directly related to what we spend in the transfer market. That’s an emotional comparison, maybe understandable, but not based on reality.

  106. Well even Graham Poll says he wouldn’t have awarded Villa’s second penalty, and certainly not awarded a yellow card to Kos because his contact with Agbonlahor was not reckless in going for the ball.

    Having been at the game I would summarize it this way. We may not have been good enough to win it, but Taylor made sure that we lost it.

  107. Mark Kitching – I think your post would be slightly more believable if you gave a source for the quote from Einstein. A where, or when, or in what context. After all you have pumped up the quote by saying he made the point “very well”. So tell us where and when and the context.

  108. Walter – not new, I often come to this site when I need a good laugh.

    You personally can review a million decisions and just because you personally do not agree with them this does not constitute a fact. Sorry if that deflates your high self-esteem.

  109. Analysing the game and the decisions over and over again will never excuse the fact that our squad was so thin that we had to:

    1) Introduce a Right Back and an up and coming Right Back into a Left Back position during a critical point of the game.
    2) That Ramsey had to step into a Centre Back position,there are plenty of true DM’s who can cover CB and LB and similar, if we had signed one to maybe cover TV’s absence and possibly an injury to our glass legged Gibbs or aging Arteta we may have stood a chance.
    3) The fact that we had to bring on Santi Cazorla who had just returned from a flight around the globe.
    4) We didn’t bring on Podolski earlier, a proven German cap.

    No argument will paper over the simple fact that our squad is too thin, exceptionally light on quality and that we have screwed it up.

    No argument will brook the fact that clubs without Champions League football have made huge and significant signings, and Spurs still are with bids in for Willian and potentially Countrao coming as well.

  110. Tony.

    I’ve never really checked up on it, but your comment prompted me to go look. There is some confusion over whether Einstein even said that about insanity. But in looking it up, I found some other quotes attributed to Einstein

    The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.

    – Einstein’s take on the question of Arsenal’s ambition

    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.
    – Einstein in his treatise “The Great Wengerian Tragedy”

    Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain too little falls into lazy habits of thinking.
    -Einstein on the Daily Mail syndrome

  111. Walter. Yes I am new.

    Maybe our wires crossed. I asked if you had facts which amounted to evidence. I’m not contesting your assessment of the matches, or arguing whether facts are opinions. I’m interested to know whether there’s a credible argument thats supports a conspriacy theory againt our club. If so then I’d urge you to present that argument since it’s explosive and shocking.

  112. And Einstein from his heavenly abode sent us a timely specimen to better understand his quotes as well. Can’t ask for more than that Tony.

  113. Goonerdog,
    The rules make the decisions right or wrong factually and this is what the ref reviews have done – also, these are not solely Walters decisions (in fact none of he Arsenal games are).

  115. I’ve visited this blog a few times, and am always amused how Walter’s opinion is presented as fact.

    Discounting clear line calls (which will generally be accepted as fact), the laws of the game use the phrase ‘in the opinion of the referee’ at least 20 times, as well as phrases such as ‘this is entirely a matter of judgment’, ‘in the view of the referee’ etc.

    Given this, there is no way anyones individual assessment of a game based on the laws could be considered fact – particularly someone with a clear bias and agenda such as Walter. At best (leaving issues of bias aside) you could consider it an informed/considered opinion.

  116. @Shard, Highbury was renovated and the legendary art deco building came about during the Chapman era. The idea was to build a stadium to rival Villa Park.

  118. Rupert

    After I sent that comment, I remembered something about the Art Deco stands being made in the 20s. Turns out it was in the 30s. That’s another feather in Chapman’s cap then, although I haven’t read anything about him in this regard. Any further details would be welcome.

  119. Thanks Stuart. Looks very interesting. A lot of energy and structure by the look of it. I started to flick through. There’s a bunch of refs (lower leagues I guess?) who analyse a bunch of fixtures. Sounds like a good start. However I couldn’t find anything that summaried the findings our attempted to draw a conclusion. I kept finding stuff written by Walter, and links to this site. Some pointers would be helpful.

  121. Gus I think you should read the Referee Decisions web site. Also you should note that what we are questioning is the opinion of the referees – exactly as you said.

  122. Sharpehunter… “glass legged Gibbs”.

    That’s interesting. It used to be glass legged Van Persie, until he decided to leave the club, then it was the club’s fault for not doing more to keep him.

  123. This site is a bit of an old boys club. The same crowd defending each other and there views and trying to belittle anybody who has a view that differs.

    Walter putting together a list of statistics that he believes are correct are not fact. They are as subjective as the original descisions. He is as suceptible to make a mistake or be biased as anybody else.

  124. Hi Matt,

    You are welcome to question any reviewed decision that you feel is incorrect – they are all documented.

    Please provide a list.

    Many thanks

  126. Tony as someone who has bought quite a few of your rather splendid books I am usually an advocate of your views and opinions and if you took the time to review my blog (which is nowhere near as prolific as Untold Arsenal of course) you would find a constant staunch support of all things Arsene, The Club’s long term strategy and our policy for the future as whole.

    However nothing can excuse the fact that Clubs without our financial power, our history, without Champions League football, without a World Class staduim and without one of the most admired managers in the world have strengthened and strengthened significantly.

    I hate to say this but Spurs are making a mockery of us. They have spent circa £56m on players that could (because no player carries guarantees) make an impact on almost any team in Soldado, Capoue and Paulihno, Chadli was an unknown to me but looked composed on the ball from what I have seen. Now it transpires they are in for Willian and have potential secured Coentroa and possibly are also in for Lamela and also are possibly in for Iker Casillas. The really annoying this is that thus far almost all (I think there has been one exception)of Spurs targets rumoured or not have actually come to fruition with no fuss, no rants, no arguments, no silly bid stories. So pray tell me what the hell is going on?

    I don’t seek platitudes or excuses. I think fans regardless of whether like us they pay a fortune in tickets and travel to attend games or not deserve an explanation, some honesty and down right transparency not shallow attempts to justify a sum total of nothing. Yes, NOTHING!

    As for Gibbs, as phenomenal as his potential may or may not be we don’t need potential right now. We need ability, we need proven talent. Which is what Spurs, Man City and Chelsea have bought. I mean come on, we couldn’t even secure the signature of Wilfried Bony and any half witted idiot who only watched him play a handful of games in the Eridervesie could tell you he has bundles of ability. You don’t need scouts.

    Check out my blog before you judge me – http://wp.me/2sRsI

  127. Matt.

    Since you are so hung up on that word, please look at the definition of the word ‘fact’.

    Noun
    1.A thing that is indisputably the case.
    2.Information used as evidence or as part of a report or news article.

    Walter’s statistics may not fit into the first definition of it (yet – all of what you might call ‘facts’, start out as ‘opinion’ as you might say, and many which are considered indisputable facts, are proven wrong), but it indisputably comes under the second definition. Making it a fact that Walter’s statistics are facts.

  128. And please don’t argue how it not being an indisputable fact makes it any less valuable or ‘correct’. You are disputing it, but you are disputing it without any facts (as in evidence) of your own. Meaning, your dispute of it is worth nothing. That is how facts become indisputable you know. By everyone’s inability to credibly dispute them. Walter has already issues that challenge.

  129. @ Tony Attwood

    In 2011 we were forced into panic buys following our mauling at Old Trafford. Now as a result of the defeat to Villa and the subsequent injuries, the small squad due to the sheer volume of “deadwood” that has been shipped out and Wenger’s confusing lack of transfer activity we are being forced into more panic buys.

    My point about the Einstein quote is that Wenger year after years acts in the same manner ie. he fails to strengthen sufficiently while those around us do. This repetitive behaviour never gives us a chance of winning a trophy, yet year on year he talks about challenging for honours.

    Surely the quote is still valid regardless of whether Einstein said it or a dinner lady? It still holds true whatever the source.

    In case you care, I’ve attached a link to a website that has that and other quotes attributed to Einstein, please feel free to have a look.

    http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/a/albert_einstein.html

    It seems pointless discussing the source of a quote when it’s meaning is the important part. I can see now that I shouldn’t have mentioned Einstein, regardless of whether he did or didn’t make the statement himself.

    The real issue is our clubs abject failure to sign the players we all know are desperately needed to even achieve 4th this season.

  131. I personally don’t like it when people introduce facts into the conversation…. No need whatsoever. But even more so when the only clear fact that we have to hand is the ‘fact’ that not one of us has a bloody clue what is going on internally at The Emirates or at Arsenal PLC. Not one of us. I would however hazard an educated guess that almost 99% of the supposed facts presented by our very own media are nothing more than speculation and loosely acquired gossip. Nothing more nothing less. I have for example been advised that the whole £40m + £1 thing is totally incorrect. It was in fact legally worded as £40m + £1 do distiguish between the infamous ‘clause’ but then went on to offer substantially more in terms of appearances, bonuses and so forth actually taking the bid to closer to £46m. But we will never know just like we will never know if there has been an immense level of activity or a total lack of it.

    Facts – Bah!

  132. huh? Shouting? I thought that needed CAPITAL LETTERS!!

    What you believe is irrelevant and incorrect. You were the one going on about the word FACT endlessly. It is a fact that you have been factually proven incorrect about whether Walter’s work is comprised of facts. Don’t like that word much now do you?

    Unless you want to redefine the English language you have no way other than to accept that your opinion (which has been credibly disputed by the Oxford dictionary) is incorrect. That is assuming you are being reasonable.

  133. Since I am in a “surrealistic” era of my cultural and entertainment life, I will do this one the “Academy Award” way (can’t say Oscar, I am not a Chav):
    And the nominees are:
    -Luis Bunuel for “Un Chien Andalou”
    -Andre Breton for “Nadja”
    -Salvador Dali for “The Persistence of Memory”
    -Anthony Taylor for “Arsenal vs. Aston Villa”
    -Kurt Weill for “The Threepenny Opera”

  135. And the lolden digdo (typo / spoonism intended) goes to:
    Anthony Taylor for “Arsenal vs. Aston Villa”

  137. Thanks Walter. Looks fascinating, I will have a good look. Is there a third year link missing?

  138. GoonerDog, so you just want to win the argument at any cost. Yes, injuries are a part of it but you dont expect to have a host of injuries and strange sendings off in the first match of the season. With that the transfer window is still open so it is plausible to think that we had enough players to go through a couple of weeks, no?

    United being champions or challenging has nothing to do with it the point I made, nothing at all. Thee point is that they have more money and clout than Arsenal but are not having an easy time of buying a player.

  139. Mark Kitching, pray tell, how do you know that signings have been panic buys? and that they were due to 8-2 maulings and so forth?

  140. Most people on this site spend there time trying to defend outrageous statements against employees
    I:E wenger/ gazidis of arsenal football club . Becouse we support the club not the short term lunacy
    That ruined Leeds u.t.d we feel that at the moment wenger is the best way forward . I do not believe there is one person on u.a that thinks that everything that arsene does is correct he has made mistakes many but we believe at this time he is the best option and as we are the majority feel that any negativity at games . Does more harm to the team than good . And most believe that what arsene has achieved at the club on and off the field has been instrumental in arsenals rise in status and revenue to one of the top clubs in the world and respect should be shown . Even if wenger leaves and we get kurgan fancy pants who wins 8 consecutive trebles still we should be thankful for what arsene has achieved . If he stays or goes he has done more for this club than anyone in the history of AFC

  141. Sewer rats will always be sewer rats. Wait when we beat Fenerbahce you will see them no more but if we lose ohh my gash they will be all-over.
    So morons are morons, but who gives a tosh we will be the Arsenal today and Tomorrow so morons what ever you say what ever you play for us will come to pass.
    And we will overcome.

  142. Aha!
    The PGMOL has selected Webb for our next game.
    Webb is the kind of guy that can screw a team while smiling in a very friendly way when explaining his decisions to the players of the said team. I hope he will be truly unbiased.

  143. Tony

    I accept that you are questioning the opinion of the referee, which is perfectly valid and justified. But to position your own counter-opinion as fact is simply incorrect, given the subjective nature of the laws of the game.

    And just to clarify, does Walter (or another Arsneal supporter) still review Arsenal games, even though you now have a panel of ‘independent’ reviewers? If so, does that not largely invalidate any conclusions, due to clear bias and conflict of interest concerns?

  144. Thanks Gus, that’s what i have been saying also but Shard wont have it. So keep your guard up he will be after you soon.

  146. @Shard
    Re the Stadium development in the ’30s. I think you’ll find that the credit mostly goes to Samuel Hill-Wood our previous Chairman’s father. This of course doesn’t diminish Chapman’s footballing achievements over the same period.

  147. A sad indictment of the drossy EPL.

    We earnestly await the dissolution of the EPL as bankruptcies ravage the teams, and the formulation of a new super league of solvent clubs.

    It will be a largely Germanic League I suspect, with Arsenal in there, challenging to win it I suspect.

    Most dodgy deals take place in backrooms somewhere; what is unique with the EPL is that it is in yer face really.

  148. Mark Kitching,
    These so called Panic buys are no such thing, it is more coincidental. Transfers can’t be completed overnight and offers can’t be made subject to a medical. Negotiations with club, negotiations with player, medicals, physical assessments, psychometric tests, all has to have taken place already before an off put in place. If you make an offer and then the player fails the medical, it’s your player so your problem.

  149. Paul N – A competent squad ready for the start of the season would cater for such eventualities. Yes maybe you may have an inferior player replacing a superior one but at least the position would be covered. Starting a season with, for example, only two centre backs and not expecting sending offs or injuries is naive to say the least. To end the game having to play a striker and a midfielder in the defence is negligent.

    Man U do not need players to the degree we clearly do, but lets not kid ourselves if United wanted a player they would get one irrespective of price. Last year you may remember they desperately wanted a striker to take them up a level and got him – ours!!

  150. GoonerDog, no, there is never a case when you say, yes, lets have a deep squad to deal with 5 injuries and a red card on the same day and you know that. A deep squad if for the duration of the season. No one looks at squad depth in terms of the first game of the season.

    Again, whether United need a player as bad as us is also irrelevant. The point is it is not so easy as you believe it is, especially if you are dealing with specifics and other clubs with greater spending power than you have. If you just want to blow some money on any old player, I am sure we would have had a host of players in.

  152. It is just way too easy to sit on our backsides at home and declare that there is negligence going on. That people believe there is something willful being done, from within, to hamper Arsenal, is mind boggling.

  153. Paul N

    It isn’t that mind boggling as such, but what is interesting is that this isn’t cast as a ‘conspiracy theory’. Why? Because it has been repeated a zillion times, including (at least indirectly) in the mainstream media.

  154. @ Paul N

    You ask me how I know we made panic buys after losing 8-2 to Man Utd on 28 August 2011?

    Well what would you call five signings on the last day of the transfer window (31 August 2011)? When in the preceding 2 months no signings were made.

    Mikel Arteta, Per Mertesacker, Andre Santos and Park on permanent deals, while Benayoun’s transfer was a season long loan all signed in one day, which leads me nicely on to…

    @ Stuart

    You said transfers can’t be completed in a day when it is abundantly obvious that they can (although it shouldn’t happen with proper planning and sensible, realistic negotiations), you only need look to the fact that we signed Arteta after only contacting Everton at 3pm of the deadline day.

    Also this summer’s transfer window opened on 1 July, it’s 20 August now and the window shuts on 2 September. Almost every other club has made more than one signing this summer that would have involved negotiating teams, agents and of course the player. That player as you point out goes for medicals, agrees terms etc etc.

    WHY didn’t we sign players a month ago and give them a chance to integrate with the squad in a sensible, logical manner rather than now face paying a premium because every club knows we are desperate!

    I always used to defend Wenger but you can’t defend him anymore, he has lost his grip on reality if he thinks his actions are in the best interest of the club. The board and Kroenke are colluding in such a manner to bleed the fans dry with the highest prices in the league while offering nothing but lies in return.

    Major signings now will do little to make up for the negligence shown over the summer in the transfer market, unless they have Premier League experience, or hit the ground running.

    Basically without major changes we are screwed for another season at least!

  155. I don’t know the answers to your questions but I can assure you that a player can’t be signed in a day, the ball would have already been rolling or at least moved some what. There are several articles written by one of the contributors to Untold where he explains the process.

  156. Paul N – There is always a case for a complete squad period and we do not have one – unless you believe we do? The season starts on day one not at the end of the transfer window. Even more so if your squad, as ours is, is depleted – which it was prior to Villa. I remind you we had two centre-backs for Villa and at present one for Fulham.

    Gazidis stated that we have huge spending power did he not? Even if his figures are inflated we surely must have more resource than Tottenham, Southampton, Liverpool? And Tottenham have found it very hard bringing in an impressive array of players even without Champs League.

  157. Mark

    There was something else that happened a few days before the ManU game (It was before right?) We beat Udinese to enter the CL proper. This assured us of about 30m in funds, and meant we could offer players CL, so that they would be more willing to come to us. Do you think Arteta and Mertesacker would have moved to us if we were not in the CL?

  158. Goonerdog

    You find Tottenham’s players impressive only because we didn;t buy them. If we’d got Soldado while Suarez was still on the market, you’d say he’s not good enough. If we bought Chadli you’d say Chadli who? If w bought Paulinho you’d question the need for a young midfielder who doesn’t know the league and that we should have got Fellaini instead.

    If you want to criticise, you’ll always find a way.

    Our first 11 is still better than Tottenham’s (without Bale who will be sold) Although I admit we need some more fleshing out of the squad. Not as many as you think though, and not all need to be absolute top class players.

    the season starts when it does. he transfer window ends later. Because it is open, negotiations will drag on. If you had to choose between waiting to get the players you want, or walking away and picking up alternate, inferior players, which option would you choose? And this is keeping in mind that it might not even be a question of money. simply about qualifying for the CL.

  159. Shard – how can you possibly know what I think?

    Are you not slightly concerned about the quality of tottenhams purchases and their obvious sign of intent?

    You ask me about waiting or buying inferior as if they are the only choices open. We didn’t wait to buy vermalen or Santi or Poldi or Giroud. We moved to get the players before the season started.

    Two years ago we waited and bought Park and Santos. I was hoping we would have learnt our lesson.

  160. As I’ve just said on the other thread (How Arsenal’s failure…), and also above, 2 years ago we didn’t have CL football confirmed, and we lost Fabregas and Nasri very late (Aug 15 and Aug 24 apparently)

    Last year we had CL football so could sign Giroud and Cazorla (from CL clubs) early. Podolski joined even earlier but from a club headed for relegation.

    This year, we don’t have CL. If you think there is no correlation between waiting to buy and CL qualification, that’s fine. I think there is. And that this isn’t necessarily about money. It certainly isn;t only about money. Cazorla would never have joined us if we weren’t in the CL. Probably neither would Giroud. If we’re looking at Cazorla calibre players, I’d rather wait.

  161. as to knowing what you think, I don’t. I’m just using a stereotype to show how perceptions about arsenal generally start from the negative. But the truth is, even you don’t know how you’d feel if we’d signed tottenham;s players. Because it is a hypothetical. I know I wasn’t enthused about Soldado, but hey, what do I know anyway. Maybe if he joined us I would have felt super happy.

    I’m not concerned about Tottenham. I am concerned about Arsenal.

  162. Thanks for the article Walter.

    I had to laugh because it is so realistic.

    Very good link to the video clip of the ref’s terrible decisions. When I looked at it, so had 10,000 other people.

    Hopefully the word will spread.

  163. That was a fantastic article Walter and gave me a good laugh as well. Keep up the good work.

  164. I cannot understand why any Arsenal fan (AAA or AKB or anywhere in between) would argue that Villa’s second penalty was correct, yet Arsenal’s two equally (if not more valid claims) were not.

    It’s pretty obvious the refereeing cost us this particular game whether you agree or disagree with anything else this site says, dislike Wenger and the board or not. As an Arsenal fan you should be complaining as loudly and widely as possible so that referees know that they cannot ref our team like this without getting widespread coverage and ridicule.

  165. Shard – Tottenham do not have Champions League football and it hasn’t stopped them from acting decisively?

  166. GoonerDog – We might have Champions League football, we might not – if I were a player, I’d wait to see, wouldn’t you?

  168. Stuart – You are assuming we have players ‘waiting.’ The Totts DON’T have Champions League – they are not waiting for anything but are making a statement of intent.

  169. Funny how failure to keep hold of your best player (Gareth Bale) is now construed as good business, or acting decisively.

  170. Tasos

    When Arsenal did the same thing with Van Persie last season, including spending the proceeds early, we were the worst in the transfer market. Spurs are the best.

  171. GoonerDog,
    Exactly, the Totts don’t have champions league football so they know which targets to go for, they know which players are interested to go to a Premier League team without Champions League football (their agents tell them). They would likely have approached different players if they had Champions League football.

  172. I don’t know about having players ‘waiting’ but we would have a list of potential targets 100+ players long with fact finding enquiries made on several of them. If you was a player wanting to play Champions League football for a Premier League team and Arsenal enquired, you would say, ‘I want Champions League football so I’ll hang on for now and see what happens’.

  173. @Tasos

    “Funny how failure to keep hold of your best player (Gareth Bale) is now construed as good business, or acting decisively.”

    There’s a war going on, a war for your minds – Alex Jones, Infowars

  174. Mark K……..you have totally misunderstood the TW process and assumed (incorrectly) that a transfer can be done in less than a few weeks. The actual signing of the transfer can happen anytime, including up to the last minute, and we are not the only Club to do that BUT the process of organizing the transfer,negotiating with the player,selling club and agent HAS to start weeks in advance.
    If you ever bought a house, you know that it is a long and protracted process with visits, agents and financing discussions taking weeks if not months. It is similar to Transfers and your oversimplification and misunderstanding of this process only serves to discredit your entire post.

  175. I watched the entire match from the word go and I found the refereeing horrible. The ref had gone bonkers. The only plausible reasoning some WOB’s can come out is may be Chezzer would have been sent out. Well really? Don’t know!!! May be he might have been. I have seen the same kind of contentious decisions handled the same way in other matches with the same yellow card. What really comes to my mind is Almunia and Rooney’s dive. Was Almunia sent off? Don’t think so. How different is that from this one is for WOB’s to answer to start with.

    I really wished at least some part of the media spoke about the refereeing or hte lack of it in the last game but then they were happy to go about clawing Wenger’s back on various things like signings, splashing out money or throwing out money, famed players blah blah blah.

    At the end of the day I believe this is the right time to step up the chase on bad refereeing and take it up to the next levels. Start of the new season and a right push will lead to more changes.

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