Ref Review : Liverpool – Arsenal and the push in the back

43 Replies to “Ref Review : Liverpool – Arsenal and the push in the back”

1. That’s what happens when a home fan refs the game…

2. I’ve received several comments from readers who have stated that the analysis is completely wrong etc etc. It’s clear that the writers haven’t had a look at the normal rules of commentary on the site, so I thought I’d write out one point here.

   We’re very happy to publish contrary views but if you want to be published here you need to provide some evidence as to why your view is right and the writer’s view is wrong. Not too sure why today’s little flurry of comments occurred suddenly but we’ve been here doing reviews for the past six years, having our work discussed by the BBC, pushing the PGMO very slowly towards change, and getting 6 million page views in the last year along the way etc etc, but still, nice that you’ve found us eventually.

   On the other hand the notion that one might write into a site, call the writers various names, and then expect that the publisher would actually publish the comment, is so bizarre it does give us an occasional laugh. But we’ve got to get back to work now.

3. Another disaster from the pigmob representatives. Emre Can looks like a thug, he could fit into the Stoke team seamlessly. The two reviews we have seen this week are a disaster, and I’m sure the Stoke review will just be the same if not worse. That we have managed 5 points out of a possible 9 from these is testimony to how strong this current team is mentally. Nobody, and I mean nobody, gets fouled in this league as much as Giroud but you don’t see any sulking in him. He doesn’t get any penalties either. He just gets on with the job.

   Just seen a headline on the daily wail saying the Giroud/Ozil partnership is only second to Neymar/Suarez in Europe. I recall Bootoomee highlighting this stat about a month or so ago, and I concurred that you wouldn’t know it if you relied on what you read in the media. The only partnership that was the flavour of the month then was the Mahrez/Vardy one. But on this list in the daily wail that partnership is placed a distant 6th (even worse than Lukaku/Deulofeu [3] or Ighalo/Deeney[5]). How many knew that the Leicester duo were that low?? Supports the article by Tony yesterday that the football world that is reported in the media is totally different to the one we fans experience.

4. AI,

   Giroud is not the most fouled player, he is the second most fouled. Guess who’s the most fouled player. 🙂

5. You do appear to have missed Can hacking Theo which resulted in him losing the ball and Liverpoo scoring the 1st goal…..

6. Andy,

   Emre Can didn’t make any foul contact on Walcott in the buildup to the first goal. Emre Can tried to tackle Walcott from behind but missed and then Walcott miscontrolled the ball and lost his footing.

7. Usama,
   I’m inclined to think it could be either Ozil or Sanchez then? Could be wrong.., but sure the answer will be an interesting one if neither of these two 🙂

8. In the last 3 games Giroud has been fouled around 9-10 times.

   Meanwhile Joel Campbell has been fouled around 19 times in last 3 games!

9. Ah yes, Joel Campbell 🙂 I thought so but then thought he hasn’t played that many games.. But agree 100%, I commented during the game with Stoke that I’d lost count of number of times he’d been bundled over. I’m sure if someone did an analysis of most fouled players in PL they could find that the top five could be all from Arsenal.

10. This is an outrage only traceable to the pigmob. As for Joel Campbell, I only wish they don’t break his leg.

11. Although the stats might be distorted due to the fact that what will be deemed a foul will be when the ref blows his whistle, which doesn’t happen that often when it’s an Arsenal player concerned…

12. OT

    In the blog about ‘stadium saga’ I referred to Mr Kronke owner of American Football team (not soccer) Missouri Rams. He is moving the team out of Missouri to Los Angeles.

    Here is a link with more info on this.

    Note the use of the phrase ‘ruthless Mr Kronke’ and ‘Clever Mr Kronke.’

    Which I wonder is the more important question?

    ‘What do we know about Mr Kronke?’

    or

    ‘What don’t we know about Mr Kronke?’

    So far the only certainty we have is that he has taken £6 million out of the club for ‘advice’!

13. Sorry I forgot to click for the link!!

    a.curbed.com/archives/2016/01/nfl_stadium_inglewood_los_angeles_rams.php

14. Yes ot but dont be making any remarks about our billionaire owner on here.Its only the cheating referees were allowed to debate.

15. Usama, look at http://arsenalist.com/f/2015-16/arsenal-vs-sunderland-fa-cup/liverpool-goal-1-0-walcott-giveaway.html and it’s clear that Can did make contact with Theo.

16. @John

    I am in full agreement with Untold’s stand against bad refereeing in the Premier League.
    The media’s cry is ‘It all evens out in the end’. There is no evidence for this.

    In Chelski’s last weekend game against West Brom in extra time chelski scored making the score 3-3. Nothing wrong with chelski scoring except that in this case a chelski player was not two centimetres off side but two meters off side but the goal was given. As a result of ‘bad refereeing or what? West Brom were robbed of two points, That has happened to them before at Chelski.

    The FA do absolutely nothing about the poor refereeing that we witness game after game.

    The media tell us the Premier league is the best league in the world what they don’t say and if they have a gram of integrity in their observations, reporting and comments is something like this.

    ‘The Premier League is the best league in the world but the standard of refereeing is not second to none but rather second to everyone. It’s appalling.’

17. Andy,

    I have another replay of that from the side, where its clear that Can didn’t make foul contact with Theo. But I am not sure about posting it here.

18. @Walter and Usama,
    Excellent work as usual! Sad if the officiating was anywhere near even, Arsenal would be run away leaders right now (4 points between the Liveerpool games + 1-3 from the Chelsea games, etc..)

    @colario,
    The fear of Stan is a little over the top because of him moving the St. Louis Rams NFL team. The Rams originally played in Los Angeles from 1946 until 1994 when they were forced to move due to lack of support from the local government to build a modern stadium. Stan Kroenke is essentially moving the team back to where they came from.

19. Usama, you can see where the contact by Can knocks Theos right leg into his left leg which causes the stumble and loss of the ball. He didn’t lose his footing, he was knocked off his stride (a bit like a rugby ‘tap tackle’).

20. Usama the contact happens at 8.57

21. Pushing in the back seems to be the foul of choice aT the moment. It’s rarely penalised because defenders often raise their hands to suggest they couldn’t stop. Even if the ref spots it and gives advantage the attacker is on the floor so out of the game.
    We did indeed see much of the same tactic from the Orcs of Mordor. What can be done about this? We have experienced two serious injuries – Debuchy and Alexis – from pushes like this.

    The other foul that is hardly ever penalised is when defenders physically manhandle forwards in the box at corners. You see one or two of these in every game
    COYG

22. Another excellent analysis, you guys are really working very hard at these. The accuracy and detail is really appreciated.

    As for Mr Jones – another Riley clone not fit for purpose.

    As for the Dippers – they were certainly up for the match – fouled us from the start of the match and then the whole way through – and thanks to the sympathetic PGMO plonker robbed us of two points – AGAIN!

    I had hoped Klopp would straighted the Dippers out and steer them towards attractive football and away from the thuggery and diving of their past – obviously that is not yet on his agenda.

23. Andy,

    I got it, after a long half hour search, I somehow stumbled upon this clip on the net. This clip is not affiliated with Untold Arsenal or with me in any way, it is just a link I found on the internet.

    http://gfycat.com/UnsungOpulentFawn

24. Usama and Andy,
    The gfycat clip is reasonably conclusive but with the linesman being on the opposite side of the pitch, he could hardly be expected to see the foul which was really quite clever. The only real clue for the referee was in Can having his arms wide in one of the classic “not me gov” postures, Whenever a player holds his arms to say he didn’t commit a foul he always has made one!

25. John….and your point is what? Is Stan Kroenke now refereeing EPL games?

26. My typing is getting worse: – straighten not straighted!

27. Usama, Yes that shows the foul quite clearly as well..

28. John – Happy to debate any subject related to Arsenal. Re Stan Kroenke – what would you like to debate?

29. Andy,

    Hmm, well after this discussion it looks that it might have been a foul. We need expert opinion on this one. Walter and Don “Where Art Thou?” 🙂

30. Oh silly me, it looks like the Edexcel Literature books taught us wrong in school. I thought “Where Art Thou?” means “where are you?” I just learned that it means it “why are you?”

31. @Jerry

    I don’t understand why you wrote this:
    ‘ The Rams originally played in Los Angeles from 1946 until 1994 when they were forced to move due to lack of support from the local government to build a modern stadium’

    You can’t read anything about the Rams without reading that. So why write what we know?

    Your point of just moving the Rams back home is true. But again we know this.

    Why is he doing it? This we don’t know. As eggs are eggs it wont be for philanthropic reasons.

    He is doing it at a profit to himself and loss to others.

    My suspicion is that whatever he does with Arsenal, when it comes to the crunch it will be at a profit to himself and at a loss to others. In this case ‘the others’ could be us.

    How much of the £6 million we paid him was for his trousers/pants pockets?

    How long before a trickle becomes a stream a stream becomes a river and a river becomes a flood? That’s what I want to know.

32. @Colario,
    The reason I included that part was because in your post you highlighted the lack of loyalty by American football teams and today highlighted phrases of the link such as ‘ruthless Mr Kronke’ and ‘Clever Mr Kronke.’ and then asked the questions:

    ‘What do we know about Mr Kronke?’

    or

    ‘What don’t we know about Mr Kronke?’

    I chose to highlight the appropriate history of St. Louis Rams (formerly and now future L.A. Rams, never Missouri Rams 🙂 )

    You asked “Why is he doing it?” It is a 100% a business decision to move to a larger city with a better stadium and marketing. He is not disrespecting the history of the Rams by going to a random city, but actually going back to where they spent most of their time in the NFL. It makes sense from an economic and club perspective.

    St. Louis did not support the Rams ambitions for a new stadium and their attendance was the worst in the NFL! http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance

    Stan Kroenke is from the State of Missouri (St. Louis the city is about 2 hrs from where he was born). If the state that he was from, is not going to support his team, why shouldn’t he move it?

    The history of many teams in England have moved also- Arsenal, Manchester United, Wimbledon.

    The club felt this was the best route to go for ownership. Why worry? He moved 1 team back to their historical roots, but all of his other sports teams have not moved anywhere (Denver Nuggets (NBA), Colorado Avalanche (NHL), Colorado Rapids (MLS)). He also owns the stadiums where those teams play like he will now with the Rams. If anything it just shows, he prefers to have total control of all aspects of the team than anything else.

33. Usama and Andy,
    I would say Can made contact; the direction of his swing and Walcott’s stumble are so synchronised that it can only mean thing. It’s like the foul on Giroud when he was about to pull the trigger in the box a few weeks ago which generated a lot of debate. Granted some of these things are difficult to pick up in real time…

34. It really irritates me when the cameras focus on the managers or some “celeb” in the crowd for too long while the game is playing making us miss that part of the game. And the fact that only “selected” replays are shown but not the relevant ones, especially the ones that show the ref has made a mistake.

    There is an air of “what ever the ref decides is right” type commentary and no one questions the ref in any way at all. Because they are all doing this it is clear that this is something official.

35. Usama, I’m really surprised you didn’t pick up on the Can/Theo foul live.
    Theos body movement is all wrong for it to be a slip…

36. Usama, where art thou does mean where are you. Your only mistake was that thou can only refer to one person. Great ref review again!

37. Cute picture in the news, of Mohammed Elneny’s son Malik wearing an Arsenal jersey. I guess it was first sent to Mohammed’s instagram account.

    I still haven’t seen which Otis the hamster (Zelalem) is named after. I am still guessing Redding (which would make Zelalem a blues fan).

38. Soul Gord Soul! Otis Redding was the King of Soul.

39. Colario – Kronke is majority share holder not owner of Arsenal. He might want to take every penny he can but it can be challenged if any shareholder feels it is wrong.

    Arsenal comes under company law & has some shareholder protection. The movement of a club in US is easier than in UK. Wimbledon was moved to Milton Keynes in a similar way to the Rams but I believe again that it was wholly owned.

40. Outrageous stats against the PigMOB…simply OUTRAGEOUS.

    Who the hell do they think they are!!

41. Menace , whilst it is true that Kroenke can be challenged by the rest of the board in all fairness they are unlikely to do so. Most if not all made a fair amount when he took over and then retained their positions in the club . They are unlikely to bite the hand that fed them.

42. And the Wimbledon/MK Dons situation reverberates to this day with MK more or less ostracised by the fan movements. Winkelman is a hated figure.

43. Menace

    Sole? We couldn’t say that Otis Redding was singing Blues for the halibut?