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October 2016
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The price of players has just gone up and the chances of signing them has just gone down.

By Tony Attwood

Overnight the value of the pound fell.  And then fell some more.  And then more.   And then…

As most Untold readers recognised a long time ago I am not a clairvoyant so I don’t know what happens next, although I can look back to 11 September 2001 and 15 September 2008 when the markets did much the same sort of thing.  And those are not my best memories of a lifetime running businesses in Britain.

What it means for football in England is that today the cost of a player, currently playing with an English club, and who is wanted by a club elsewhere in the world, has gone down.  A lot.  Something between 10% and 20%.

This is nothing to do with the EU, but to do with the reaction of the international markets to the EU referendum in Britain.  The markets have reacted and the pound has gone way, way, way, way down.

Arsenal, being a UK company, has bank accounts holding its money in pounds.  And when it trades with other UK companies, and mere mortals like me who pay for tickets to the game, it deals in pounds.  When it buys players from overseas it pays in the currency of that country.   When they buy from Arsenal the deal gets translated into pounds.  (For Arsenal to overcome this by holding the registration of players in another country would be illegal).

Overnight players of any nationality in an English club have potentially become a lot cheaper buy for the rest of the world.  Players of any nationality playing for a club outside the UK, will still be quoted in overseas currencies and will be a lot more expensive if a UK club wants to buy.  At the moment of writing about 15% more expensive, but that could change.

Of course clubs can change the prices of players to accommodate the new situation.   Arsenal could put up the price of its players when selling to clubs outside the UK – but they have to find buyers.  They could quote prices in Euros, and hold the money in a Euro account and use that for trading (which is what I expect they will do) but with the UK outside the EU I suspect the government will quickly move to stop that, since the impact would probably be to make the pound even weaker.

But with the pound dropping fast in value, it does mean that the assets of the club are liable to plundering.

Of course the Bank of England will be trying to calm the markets down – although since their experts were endlessly showing the risks of voting to leave, they are now in a position of great weakness vis a vis the rest of the world.  Many financiers said this would be a disaster, so it is hard to pretend otherwise.

So, players with English clubs (not English players I stress, but players with English clubs) have become a lot cheaper overnight when sold outside of the UK.   Players currently playing outside the UK have become a lot more expensive for clubs within the UK.

On the other hand Scotland voted decisively for remain, while England outside of London voted for leave. That must mean another independence for Scotland referendum which I suspect would now be won, and Scotland would then stay in the EU.  It would almost certainly uncouple itself from the pound and go for the now much stronger Euro, and in footballing terms certainly rise up the ladder.

What we will lose completely in the next two years is the freedom of movement that allows all of us in the UK to travel, live and work without a permit anywhere in the EU.  (A bit tough if you’ve just moved to Spain to retire, and sorry Walter but you’ll have to show your passport.  And since the central focus of the Leave campaign was to make it harder for non-UK nationals to get into Britain I suspect you will need a visa too).

The UK’s Home Office requires non-EU players to have played in a certain percentage of their national team’s matches, before getting a transfer.  Although there are ways around this (Gabriel was an example) the FA (that has now taken over the running of the football immigration system from the UK government) is tightening the rules dramatically.  Over 100 current Premier League players would not be in the UK without a work permit, and given the mood of the country in voting yesterday to leave the EU, it would seem bizarre if the government then suddenly relaxed the rules and went the other way.

In particular we will not only lose out on the players who use the laws in Spain and Portugal which allow them to gain EU citizenship quickly, even though they were born in South America, but also French and German players.

All of which is why Richard Scudamore, the Premier League executive chairman and all 20 Premier League clubs publically supported staying in Europe.

Dr Babatunde Buraimo, senior lecturer in sports economics at the University of Liverpool, recently said, “Clubs will be limited to hiring higher-calibre players from highly Fifa-ranked EU countries.  If the Premier League is limited to these players, this will increase the values, in terms of transfer fees and wages, of acquiring proven and established EU players. Missing out on rising talent  will be one of the drawbacks.”

And that was said before the pound collapsed against the Euro and the stock market went into free fall.

It is also possible that the FA which has long campaigned for more British players in English teams, will now put quotas on who can play in FA Cup matches – something it was not able to do until now.  I really am not sure what the Premier League, so totally opposed to leaving the EU, will do now.

Certainly the Cotonou Agreement and the Kolpak Ruling in 2003, which means sportsmen from Africa, Caribbean and Pacific Group of States (ACP) enjoy the same rights as EU players will crumble as well as the free movement of players from Europe.

As Christian Abt, a director at the Essentially sports management group, “The Premiership will suffer as a result because it has such a cosmopolitan flavour to it which makes it such attractive to viewers and sponsors.  As a product the best model is having international players playing alongside local and homegrown players.”

Patsalos also believes the vote yesterday endangers London’s status.  “The way the NFL view it is that London is a gateway to Europe,” Patsalos said. “My view is that as we pull out of Europe then they will reconsider that deal.”  That might not be the best news for Tottenham, for whom having an NFL team playing at its stadium, is part of its financial package that it has put to the banks.

In practical terms for Arsenal had we not been in the EU in the past it would have meant Thierry Henry would not have got the right to play for Arsenal.  He had not played enough games for France when he joined from Juventus, and although Mr Wenger saw his potential, virtually no one else did.

Finally there is the issue of players who are looking to join us now from other countries.  They will know that after a couple of years in England they will want to return to Europe, and they will know that their salaries are now worth a lot less in European terms.  So they too will want more.

The renegotiation of Vardy’s contract by Leicester, following the triggering of the buy out clause, will cost Leicester around £40m extra if, as is reported, it is part of a deal within Leicester to secure three or four players in the same way.  If any of those players are not British, their agent is now going to want an awful lot more to compensate for the decline of the pound.

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57 comments to The price of players has just gone up and the chances of signing them has just gone down.

  • As a PS, five minutes after I finished writing the article it was announced that the UK is to lose it AAA credit rating. It’s a technical thing, but if you know what that rating is, you’ll know what that means.

  • WalterBroeckx

    We had to show our passports even now when entering the UK so that will not change that much. A visa would be not that funny but still wouldn’t hold me back from coming to London.
    But The people has spoken not much to do but to accept it.

    As you say what will Scotland do now? If England can leave the EU then Scotland could leave the English Union also if they vote to do so. No way England can stop them from leaving.

    As for disliking Brussels and as a result voting out… I can understand. Hell, we all (well most of the people I know) in Flanders dislike Brussels and would get rid of it if they could. The only problem is that Brussels is completely surrounded by Flanders territory and we can’t really dig up the ground, make it an island and put it somewhere in the North Sea. LOL. Imagine the island of Brussels drifting in the North Sea and then floating towards England.
    But disliking Brussels is not just an English thing. I dislike Brussels and hate going there to be honest and it is in my own country. So people from outside… I can understand them. I might even vote to get rid of Brussels if it would come to a vote in my country… oh well…

    Oh and don’t worry, I still like London and of course Arsenal as much as I did before.

  • Arthur


    Calm down. There are many ways they can fix it so that the referendum vote does not matter. After all the Greeks voted to leave and look what happened to them!

    Now that the vote is in, I fully expect all the other liars, notably French president Francois Hollande and German Chancellor Angela Merkel to propose a second vote with added sweeteners.

    Also note the Brexit vote is not legally binding. Cameron could easily resign, leaving this up to the next parliament to decide.

    Either of those is arguably more likely than straight-up leave negotiations.

    And we have yet to hear from European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker who no doubt will promise (lie) anything and everything to get another vote.

  • markyb

    I have worked in the Insurance industry and that is not a good thing

  • Jambug

    Irrespective of the repercussions for Arsenal FC, I am gutted with this vote.

    The EU is not perfect. The World is not perfect. But what in life is?

    What I do know is, to change something, you have to be in it.

    Because the World isn’t perfect, would we next, given the chance, ‘vote to leave’ Earth and move to Mars?

    I’ve always believed that working together in a united Europe, in a united world, is the best and only way, to bring into being, a more equal and peaceful world.

    Division just brings discord and disharmony, which to my mind can only be a bad thing.

    I respect peoples points of view on this, and I do understand a lot of concerns people had, but surely staying within the EU in order to help bring about the necessary changes, no matter how difficult that might be, is surely a better option than isolating yourself, and just hoping that others will sort the problems out for you, because rest assured the problems of unrest, social and economic displacement, migration and immigration, will not go away, or cease to affect us, just because we’ve decided to leave the EU.

    The truth is, as bad is this could possibly be for Arsenal, it’s a mere inconvenience as compared to what I believe will be the catastrophic impact it could have on the UK as a whole.

    I hope I’m wrong. It certainly wont be the first time.

  • bjtgooner

    Tony, without entering the remain/leave argument too much we need to remember that the the UK entered the Common Market on rather unfavourable terms, and year by year the terms deteriorated – we paid more, lost our ability to control our affairs etc – the pressure pot of dissatisfaction has been growing for years.

    Some of the legistation comming out of Brussels has been totally stupid – the REACH legisation imposed on us is a typical example.

    Had the politicians of all parties listened properly to their constituents and had the EU, as it has now become, not been run in such a distant, inefficient, wasteful and arrogant manner yesterday’s vote would have been very different – or indeed, it may never have been called.

    So be of courage Tony, we were a great nation before joining the CM/EU – and will be again.
    How the change will affect our football remains to be seen – but football and our beloved Arsenal will happily survive.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Tony if you as other celebrities how said they want to leave the UK after the vote I offer you asylum in my part of the world. But maybe you have to hurry up before the border doors get slammed shut (like the transfer window) 😉
    And as I know you like hats I can tell you we even have a hat shop in my local community. 🙂

    Oh well better try to laugh it off a bit I would suggest.

  • Chris

    Welcome outide of Europe !
    Us Swiss have refused to get in and paid dearly in terms of exonomics.
    You are going to have to go through one hell of a messy divorce.
    I just bet it is not going to be long that newspapers will tell the story of how Europe is bad and mean and sending the UK to ruin.
    And come screaming that losing the advantages you willingly decided to ignore is not fair.

    Why should they not have a field day with an issue like that. Blame it all on Brussels will continue.

    Here is a piece of reading that has been forgotten

    As for AFC, see, I have trust that Le Prof will be finding solutions better than all his competitors
    Are was that Brexit thing just a conspiration to get him thrown out of the country ?!?!

    Egoïstically, going on a holiday in England, which was planned, just got cheaper….



  • Porter

    Last word from me on this because the die is cast.The thought that staying in would change the E.u is fanciful to say the least. Their aim to get an all powerful control over the running of the continent was never going to change. No matter what they promised they are all politicians and they are not known for their veracity.

  • Menace

    Oh Dear! The value of the pound is no different than any time recently. It is the traders trying to make a buck. When you feel that shares prices are low, it is time to buy. When they are high, it is time to sell. The value of any currency is tainted by the greed of traders. The pound will come back higher than ever because it is free from the burden of a failing EU. My view is that it will double within 6-10 months. I have put in a buy for some bank shares but my Halifax traders seem to be asleep.

  • Menace

    Let us also look at the bright side of the money launderers. They buy clubs in UK so that they can wash their dirt in sterling. They will now start to fear British Law & no hiding place under the EU umbrella. The likes of Manchesters clubs & Chelsea as less secure than ever.

    The freedoms that being out of the EU bring are immeasurable. The EU will have to change drastically in order to keep other countries from leaving. Gone are the unelected appointed Commissioners of the EU raping the democratic voice of The Palace of Westminster. As for players from the EU coming to UK, it is not an issue. The visa will be easily given on a sporting basis.

    The fear of currency fluctuation is a man made gamble & not a commercial based consideration.

    The future for Arsenal & for the UK is bright.

  • Usama Zaka

    I remember in 2008 when the new Government came in to power in Pakistan, the Pakistani Rupee (PKR) fell to an all time low and has been tumbling down ever since, getting weaker and weaker. Pakistan’s economical and financial growth went in to reverse gear.

    I don’t know much of a positive change the Brexit and the new Brexit Government might bring to UK, but football wise England better brace itself for hard times.

  • Highbury Exile

    Bit of a knee jerk reaction, the pound is already rallying as is the stock market.
    The euro was 1.09 two years ago.
    It will be a short term event we have a strong economy and the Euro is weak, that wont change.
    In the long term it must be good for football, especially in the football league where there are many very sub standard European footballers preventing home grown talent coming through.
    Onwards and upwards.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Scotland voted to stay, so did Northern Ireland, so did London.
    So dont despair Arsenal….and erm Tottenham
    What we need is a Peoples Republic of London…..ok….maybe it would actually be a Banks Republic of London

  • Highbury Exile I have seen this argument elsewhere…

    many very sub standard European footballers preventing home grown talent coming through.

    But why would managers buy very sub standard European footballers. They might buy substandard footballers to save money – but why specifically European substandard footballers?

  • markyb

    Must mean the home grown talent is sub sub standard then

  • Dec

    I suspect not very many of the 18million or so who voted to leave the EU did so after giving in depth analysis of the potential vagaries of the financial markets. This vote was unquestionably driven by two linked issues – immigration and the resentment at the perception of being told what to do by ‘foreigners’. In a word ‘nationalism’.
    Mathematical logic, even if it were clear, would not trump such an emotion. Ironically it may transpire that this very action will be the very thing that finally breaks up the ‘united’ kingdom. The people of Scotland may soon rediscover their national identity and the return of border controls along the Irish border may even prove too much of an irritant for those who live there.
    Of course on the upside President Trump might be able to offer some advice to Prime Minister Johnston on how to build walls around Englandwales.

  • Goonermikey

    I can’t think of anything better than losing the AAA…………..

  • bjtgooner

    On further reflection, it is really too early to speculate on how leaving the EU will affect every aspect of modern living, including our all important football.

    We need sensible thoughts and strategies from both sides of the divide in moving forward in the most beneficial way.

    There is widespread dissatisfaction within the EU, so it is not impossible that further changes could occur that may well change the outlook to the EU within the UK. It will be interesting to see how some of this plays out.

    However, some things irritate me. We have the opportunist “lady” Sturgeon wanting a new referendum for Scotland. Well, if the “lady” is so pro European, why has her government consistently failed to comply with the Marine Strategy Framework Directive – which requires the Scottish government to put measures in place to protect wild salmonids from the threat of sea lice from fish farms. Her government’s lack of action (competence?) on this matter is the subject of a formal complaint to the European Commission.

    Further, we had the head of Nato advising us to vote remain, I wouldn’t mind that as a stand alone issue, but this is the same Nato that has turned a very blind eye to Turkey’s presence on Cyprus and worryingly, the horrific destruction of Kurdish cities and people in SE Turkey.

    So, if we are going to move forward, lets be sensible about it.

  • Josif


    Which substandard European players block which talented English players? How English full-backs will learn from their Spanish peers if the latter are not allowed to play in England? How can Sterling become more than just an overpaid one-season wonder if players like Silva and De Bruyne are foreigners?

    To stretch it further: will English managers become more capable after Brexit (btw, it sounds like a name of a villain from Superman’s planet)? Leicester won it with the Italian, we have been around the top for 20 years with the Frenchman, City had had the Chilean who was replaced with the Spaniard, Tottenham have the Argentinian, United replaced the Dutchman with the Portuguese, the Croat is on the West Ham’s bench etc. In top half of the table there was a single British manager, Mark Hughes of Wales.

  • Jambug


    As much as it seems my overall view differs from yours I do enjoy reading, and more importantly I do take on board both sides of the debate.

    The fact is nobody knows what will happen.

    I just think, on balance, and as a working Class man, that leaving the EU is going to put myself, and following generations of working class people, in an exceptionally vulnerable position when it comes to the political machinations of the likes of Boris Johnson and his like, which is frankly a nightmare.

    Never the less I still feel it is important to hear all sides.

  • Jambug

    Hi Kenneth

    Hope you are well my friend and thanks for the link.

    Trying to do but having trouble.

  • Menace

    The difference between UK & Pakistan is democracy. Pakistan is not stable & has military rule spoiling for control. UK has a strong economy that was weakened by selloff during Thatchers spell. Football in UK has blossomed following Wenger’s arrival and oil money made it richer & more tempting for investors.

    The stock market will return to its glowing state within 6 weeks. It is so sad to see stupidity doing post mortems of each areas voting when both loss & victory is to be celebrated. Democracy does not have a reverse gear. The winners are the majority who know why they won. Accept it.

    FFS we accept PGMO each week knowing that they cheat us of success! What is an exit from an unelected EU that over rules our democratic laws, going to do apart from give us control.

    There will not be hard times. This is the time to enjoy freedom from having to pay for poor neighbours & bad weather.

  • Menace

    London is the center of the Time Zone & English is the language of the world.

  • Jambug

    One thing.

    The ‘Majority’ of the voting population did NOT vote to leave the EU.

    Just saying.

    64% in fact.

  • bjtgooner

    Hi Jambug

    You and I usually agree on most things Arsenal, so I am unhappy about us having any difference of opinion – and I respect your views.

    If the Common Market was just that, the vote would have been different yesterday, also if the EU had been well run, again the vote would probably have been different.

    Lets hope the future is secure for all – esp the Arsenal fans!

  • Jambug


    Indeed we do my friend.

    Look, whatever anybody feels, and whichever way they voted, I truly believe they did it with a clear conscience.

    They may of had there own best interests at heart

    They may of done it with there families best interests at heart,

    They may of done it with the Countries best Interest at heart.

    They may of done it with Europe’s, or the Worlds best interest at heart.

    They may even, miracle upon miracles, of voted with the best interest of ‘others’ at heart.

    We all have our reasons, and can only answer to ourselves.

    Personally, as I intimated, as a working Class man, I think we, the working class, are now in big big trouble.

    But hey, as long as Wenger signs an extension, and Sanchez and Ozil extend, and we win the PL, and or CL, who gives a shit !!!

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    Hi Jambug,
    Its up again now.Not really -I live in the Euro zone, so feel pretty shocked and facked off and pretty insecure how that will eventually leave me-despite the Vienna treaty of 1969.
    Seems a lot of people are really angry and upset about whats happened. As you said earlier today its going to cause a lot of division.
    Cheers for asking though mate, hope youre doing OK?

  • Jambug

    Hi Again Kenneth.

    Worrying times indeed for some, but for others a time of excitement, whatever, the Untold Arsenal family will stay united.

    -Keeps urging me to sign the email link, but I have received no such link.

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    Howdy Jambug-perhaps they are still having a few tech problems, but it is working as the number keeps going up!

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    My partners just told me thats its reported here that London wants to be part of the EU too a a separate place! Passport to Pimlico!

  • Pat

    Calm down everyone! David Cameron is not leaving his post for three months and will not start the two year exit process until then. Who knows what that exit process will be like – if some very powerful people who want us to stay in the EU get their way it may never even happen.

    I don’t think we should make assumptions about why people voted to leave – probably different reasons for different people. But as to what the unelected and undemocratic EU has brought to the majority of people inside it – look at Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal and the whole of Eastern Europe. Whole economies have been destroyed. Why did the people of Wales vote to leave? Probably because they have got no industry and no jobs. This is not entirely down to the EU of course, but many of its rulings have helped this process along the way.

    I’m on the side of the ordinary people of the EU countries who are being shafted by a small clique at the top.

    By the way, before we were in the EU, loads of people from this country lived and worked in other European countries. No reason why it should ‘t happen again.

    But anyway, Tony, I hope your business is not badly affected. This is the problem with having an economy run on totally irrational lines, where rumours can cause its currency to devalue. And where unprincipled people can take advantage of it to make a packet. Read ‘The Big Short’.

  • Jambug


    Certainly we in London voted Remain, but given the cosmopolitan nature of our great City that is hardly surprising.

    Perversely, it’s London’s great diversity, and it’s success, that makes it both revered, and more so hated, by the rest of the Country.

    I Honestly believe the ‘leave’ vote, so pronounced throughout the rest of the UK, was a ‘fuck you’, not to the EU, not even to the politicians, but to London, for it’s perceived governance over the rest of the UK, to it’s detriment.

    United states of London ?

    Has a ring to it but alas divisions upon divisions. Not good.

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    I agree about divisions being a problem-but Ive often wondered if its truly possible to have unity due to our egos perceiving the world and “others” as a threat.

  • Dreadnoughts FC

    What would the rules for EU and non-EU managers be? There seems to only be talk of players. And 52 to 48 percent does not seem like a proper victory, more like a draw, so neither side should win. For such a BIG divisive vote it should require at least 66.69% to be legitimate.

  • The people have chosen and that is that. I’m glad we are out and it looks like we are not the only nation to have wanted out either. The EU has been failing for sometime and why should faceless bureaucratic men and women in Brussels decide our laws and trading. We have gotten back our right to govern ourselves and that is how it should be. Yes it’s going to take time and it’s going to be tough but I believe the right decision was made and Cameron lost this vote by his Tory party and how the old sick, disabled and working class were treated. In a country like Britain we have people living on the poverty line with homeless people through no fault of their own on the streets. In Belfast we have had three deaths recently with these poor people found dead on our streets. It’s a time to come together for the good of our country and try to work together for a better chance to be able to make our own laws and trading because the EU is unraveling slowly but surely and it looks like the Greeks may need bailing out yet again. I wish the EU well but I will say this that I was appalled at one senior Polish MEP that has the bloody nerve to say that as his father was a pilot in the Second WW here in Britain if Britain ever went to War again he would make sure that they we never had Polish pilots again and he regretted his father fighting. He seems to have forgotten that it was British men and women who fought not just for ourselves but for his country also and war was declared when Germany marched into Poland by the British. My grandfathers fought also in that war and one came back traumatic and was never again the same man who fought on the Normandy beaches.

  • Dreadnoughts FC

    I personally don’t feel as though football should be a major part of any discussion connected to the Brexit results, but let’s take a closer look at how it affects managers in the top tier of English football. In the teams qualified for the 2016/17 campaign, 14 managers are from EU states, 1 from Scotland, 1 from Wales. Erm, leaving four English managers. Now, assuming overnight Scotland decides to have another referendum for independence and Article 50 were enacted with immediate effect, that would leave only three English managers in the EPL. Of course, the next step would be to look deeply into whether English/British managers are more successful than EU and non-EU managers in the EPL. I suppose the lower down the leagues you go, the more the ratio shifts towards local managers, but I think it is interesting that this debate has not yet been taken up by the press. I wonder what the criteria for all these ‘foreigners’ will be to get valid work permits and visas etc.

  • Dreadnoughts FC

    Will the term ‘homegrown’ cease to exist for non-British players? How will it affect the academies? Will the homegrown rules have to change?

  • Pat

    I bet that Polish MEP doesn’t speak for most of the Polish people, Linda. I expect a lot of them regret being in the EU as well. It has done them no good. Their economy is shot. That’s why so many come here to work.

  • I understand Pat but their was no need to come out with something that many men from different nations all over the world fought and died for and he should have realised as he spoke that those men had families. My youngest daughter who is sitting her A Levels at the minute has a best friend who is Polish and I treat her as I treat my girl because she is lovely and she calls me Mama McNeilly. Her parents are hard working people and I cannot see any reason why they and those working in Britain should have any reason to go back to Poland, only if it was what they wanted.poland is in a bad way as are others in the EU and I really believe they will start to call for a referendum in their homelands.

  • Pat

    I hope they do, Linda. I agree, I know some Polish people too, and they are lovely and hard working people.

  • Andy Mack

    Tony, I’m pretty certain AFC have Bank accounts for £Sterling, US$ and €uro (Maybe Japanese Yen as well), just like they do in every other large international trade businesses based in London. That won’t change.

  • Menace

    I have a lot of empathy with the Poles. They went through some tough times in history & I have seen some nasty racists there (nasties get everywhere). There is nothing evil about walking away from a corrupt European Union. Overpaid appointed officials overruling democracy is not my idea of government.

    London will survive & blossom like it has in the past. Europe will be at the door wanting as usual. Arsenal will profit from the independence & all of its classic business practice.

    The sad thing is the PM took it personally & resigned. Shame Sturgeon didn’t do it as well. She is truly vile (in my opinion).

    We have lost big market & gained the whole world. There are several countries wanting to follow the UK example – true democracy. Just like all those football clubs wanting Arsene Wenger style moral fiber & stylish football.

    Rock on tomorrow & next week.

  • Dec

    ‘Fog on the channel, Europe stranded!!!!!’
    The empire’s gone children, wise up. The world’s moved on and the United Kingdom (or Disunited Kingdom) has today just become an isolated island in the North Atlantic. Soon to be two thirds of an isolated island, after the Scots say bye bye.

    As for football, German, Spanish and Italian clubs can’t believe their luck today.

  • Leon

    With Boris about to become PM & Trump the Prez we’ll probably get to be the 51st state.

  • Florian

    From the other side of the pond, the exit seems much more like a matter of uninformed opinion. I was stunned to find out that hours after the “incident”, the second most frequent search phrase on Google was “what is EU?”. I will not talk about the demographic splits, but suffice to say the whole situation could have been avoided.

    Granted, the EU is far from perfect, and the Daily Fail never lets us forget that. I had the chance to live in a country that joined the EU, and was able to experience first-hand both the good and the bad of being “in”.

    That being said, I believe it’s a matter of attitude. Some throw tantrums, take their toys and leave. Others stick together and work out their differences. It’s so ironic that we have such a great example of leader in Arsene Wenger, who favored the team spirit above everything else, and made it a key ingredient of our success and re-rise to the top. And, it’s true that anyone who was irremediably unhappy and wanted to leave was allowed to leave. But my point is, united they stand, divided they fall. With all its shortcomings, EU is a progressive construction. Maybe, this will be the warning to the leaders that they need to work harder to fix what’s broken. As far as Arsenal is concerned, I really hope our players stay, and we get the players Wenger wants. Oh, and win the damn EPL.

  • Jambug


    “The EU has been failing for sometime and why should faceless bureaucratic men and women in Brussels decide our laws and trading. We have gotten back our right to govern ourselves and that is how it should be.”

    You and I agree on many many things, and I very much enjoy your posts.

    They are usually heartfelt and show clearly how your take on things is always with a sense of fair play and humanity, so I know that your views on ‘Brexit’ are with the best of intentions and come from a good place, I just feel that on this particular occasion you are wrong, and this is why.

    Failing or not. Faceless or not, I, a simple working class man, would be far worse off without them.

    Literally thousands of laws, many of which come from Brussels, benefit and protect the working man and his ‘rights’. They will now be in jeopardy. Please read this from the TUC regarding ‘PROTECTING WORKERS RIGHTS’ it is very enlightening:

    “Many vital rights at work in the UK are derived from EU law, guaranteeing things like paid leave entitlements, protections from being forced to work excessive hours, discrimination protections and rights for working mums-to-be.

    Following the UK vote to leave the European Union, we now have to decide what happens to these rights. As the official Leave campaign’s plan for managing Brexit said:

    “Parliament will decide carefully which areas of existing EU law should a) be kept, b) be amended and c) be removed.”

    Prominent leave campaigners have called for a halving of regulations derived from EU law, or flexibility in interpreting rights, claiming that British business would benefit from a reduction in “red tape”.

    What they call “red tape” is really rights and protections that are valued by millions of working people. Attempts to cut these rights, or to limit the range of workers they apply to (for example exempting staff of small businesses or temporary workers), would cause great harm to fairness at work and to working people’s living standards.

    We need to keep a close eye on our MPs as they start to debate what happens to our rights at work, and hold them to account, whether they backed leave or remain. They must not cut or water down any of the rights that working people and their unions fought so hard to win.”

    —Linda, I know Unions are not ‘fashionable’ but mark my words, the workers with the best pay and working conditions usual have the benefit of a Union to fight for and protect there rights. Those without, as per Mrs Jambug, are, for want of a better word, abused.

    In the UK there is currently a determined effort to ‘destroy’ the Unions (there words), and as a result the working man/women, and now with the added loss of protection from EU legislation that job has just become a lot easier.

    Do you really think that placing all these laws in the laps of the likes of Boris Johnson, is, under any circumstances, a good thing?

    If you take nothing else from all this just remember this one vital phrase:


    Sorry for the political rant, but I feel strongly that people should know the real depth of problems this Country, and the working man in particular, is now about to face, following our exit from the EU.

  • Jambug

    By the way, is not the ‘House of Lords’ who ratify our laws, a bunch of un elected, faceless bureaucrats. ?

  • Menace

    Jambug – The Lords is an appointed house some of which are faceless. They have not done a bad job, but should be replaced by proportional representation of election results. Within that house there are representatives of the clergy that also have a part to play.

    I am a retired ex Union member & I understand your fears. There should not be any because we had a strong workers mandate before the EC & subsequent EU. It is the media (News International) that we should fear because they bend the thinking of the commoner to elect the likes of Boris & Thatcher. Amazing how a little porn wins votes. This is the same media that allows PGMO & the likes to get away with close to murder.

    There is no doubt that left wing politics are damned before a finger is raised against the right wing.

    Kudos to our PM for feeling personally responsible for a democratic loss. Shame that Nicola Sturgeon has lost 2 referendums & has not resigned.

    The days will be just as beautiful in or out & the pound will be the envy of the EU.

  • Josif

    Petr Čech has expressed his discontent with the fact that the campaign for the biggest decision in Britain’s history was based on a lie. Maybe he’s over-reacting but I can see his point of view. His debut in English football was delayed by the fact Czech Republic hadn’t been member of EU back then.

    As someone who was born in a country which had had a lot of similarities with EU before crumbling into ashes in blood and hate, I can assure you that leaving multiethnic, multireligious and multilingual (con)federations in order to (re)gain economical independence and stop the terror of bureaucrats doesn’t end up well.

    As Tony pointed out, with Great Britain out of EU, British authorities will be free to do whatever they want without any supervision from EU bodies. You won’t have to worry about the European bureaucrats that suck money out of Great Britain – now you will have bureacrats of your own to deal with it.

    Back in time of Yugoslavia, Croats (and Slovenians but they are less important in this story) were claiming that their money went to Bruxelles…sorry, I mean, to Belgrade. “A Croatian wallet in a Croatian pocket” was one of the mottos of the discontent voices in Croatia back then. In Bosnia, the politicians literally promised golden spoons for the citizens (except they obviously forget to promise and provide something to eat with those spoons that the Bosnians are yet to get). In Serbia… Well, the Serbian politicians had their own vision of isolation from the rest of the world which was sublimed in a sentence: “If necessary, we will eat the roots of the plants but we won’t give up on sovereignty.” Bureaucrats, corruption, ineffective and massive administration… Well, those problems from the days of Yugoslavia haven’t been cured in the respective countries. They have been transferred to the new masters of the local origin. The Dalmatians now look at Zagreb with the same disdain they had for Belgrade. There are millions of divisions between the citizens of Bosnia and Herzegovina. To the lesser extent, same thing happens in Serbia.

    In all these countries there is something I call a hijacked democracy (I claim copyright on this coin and I sometimes use an intercepted democracy as a synonym). In normal democracy, you choose your representatives in all bodies (local authorities, parliament, mid-level authorities if there is such thing) and they are responsible to you which means if they don’t keep their promise, they leave their well-paid post to someone else. In a hijacked/intercepted democracy, the responsibility of the representatives is hijacked/intercepted by the third party (circles of power who financed their campaign).

    Pardon my French, but in the Yugoslavian case impotence wasn’t cured by the amputation of penis. Yes, Yugoslavia had a lot of problems back then (inflation; criminal; bureaucrats; lack of basic products such as a detergent for laundry; “odd-even” policy to deal with the oil crisis which meant if you had a car which licence plate ended up with an odd number, you could drive it on, say, Monday, Wednesday and Friday while the one with even-numbered plate could drive on, say, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday) but those problems didn’t end by disolution even if the campaign that included shauvinist messages against Others (Serbs, Croats, Muslims, Slovenians…you name it) had promised otherwise. It doesn’t make things better if money from that proverbial Croatian wallet in a Croatian pocket is taken from the bureaucratic beast from Belgrade or the one from Zagreb. When my father’s car was stolen from the police station parking, we weren’t comforted by the fact the criminal was probably of our own ethnic background.

  • Jambug


    The pound may well be the envy of the EU, it’s just a shame the working man wont have quite so many in his pocket for them to be envious of !

  • Pat

    The EU is not the great protector it is pretending to be.

    Since the Czech Republic joined the EU, tenants have lost the remaining protection they had from the constitution they had when they were Czechoslovakia.

    The EU gives finance for regeneration projects that cleanse city centres of their inhabitants, but gives nothing for building rented housing people can actually afford.

    It’s no use pretending you are protecting workers’ rights when your policies are actually leading to the destruction of industry and agriculture in many of your member countries. That’s the reality of the EU.

    Far from being a happy cooperative body of nations, it is an organization where might is right.

    Workers have always had to join in trade unions to protect their wages and working conditions. That is as true inside the EU as outside it.

  • Jambug


    “Workers have always had to join in trade unions to protect their wages and working conditions. That is as true inside the EU as outside it.”

    Did you not read what the TUC have said?

    They cannot protect the working man when there hands are tied with legislation.

    The current legislation in the UK severely restricts the Unions ability to protect there members pay and working conditions. As I said earlier, there is currently a concerted effort to ‘destroy’ (As I said, their words) the Unions and they are using said legislation to that end.

    Without the protection of certain legislation that comes from the EU, as highlighted in the TUC brief I reproduced on here, the ‘destruction’ of the Unions, and with it the working mans pay and conditions, will be impossible to resist.

    These fears are echoed across the UK.

    Plaid Cymru’s Leanne Wood said “Wales, it’s economy and communities will be at the mercy of the Westminster elite”

    And with this in mind Margaret Thomas of Unison Cymru, had simple advice for workers across Wales. She said it is “essential” to join a trade Union.

    It may well be, but that’s assuming there is still a trade Union to join.

  • Gord

    The first adult quality I displayed as a child, was the ability to cook starting at age 5. I was cooking recipes that neither parent could do.

    Close on the heels of that, was I became a space nut. Some of the space race predates my birth, and Mom didn’t follow space before I was born.

    I eventually ended up in engineering, where I have been allowed to rot by society because it is too easy to not properly consider autistic engineers.

    The start of the space race should have been the signal to engineering worldwide, that unification needed to start. Some countries (like Canada) have engineering in a situation where right to title is in place. You cannot practice engineering in location A, without being a member of the engineering association governing location A. But in Canada, there is not 1 engineering association, there are many as this is typically deemed a “provincial jurisdiciton”. Hogwash! The USA also has state level engineering associations, but doesn’t have right to title. And it is going to be the 800 pound gorilla in this note.

    We should have started negotiating to unification in Canada in the early 1960’s. Just last year, APEGA (for Alberta) was congratulating itself on the wonderful work it was doing to unify engineering across Canada. For a few years, I was a member at large for the Peace Region local executive of APEGA. At one annual meeting, I brought up the issue ofunifying engineering across all of mankind, not just Canada. They all thought I was nuts.

    But, some place between landing the first objects on Mars and now (because plans to put manned outpost on the Moon and to put man on Mars have been made), engineering within countries should have been united and the effort to unify engineering across all countries should have started. And we find subcountry level organizations patting themselves on the back for attempting to unify across the country they are part of.

    Snowdon has shown that Five Eyes (USA, Canada, England, New Zealand, Australia) are more than comfortable doing the political task of spying on anybody and everybody for just about any reason. And if local laws seem to prevent spying on local citizens, they will either do it and lie or they will get another of the Five Eyes to do it (and collect the resutls, just as if they did it themselves).

    Brexit has shown that England hasn’t the stomach to work for the common good, or rather that it can’t be counted on to work to the common good. Sometimes it will, and sometimes it won’t. And nobody is going to be able to predict when that will happen.

    As a result, the “currency” of being English (or British) has fallen. And it takes many generations for this kind of currency to change in a positive way. Just like the aaa, negative changes in valuation will happen quickly.

  • Menace

    Gord – space is more active in the heads of those looking outwards. Our oceans have much more gifts than anything in space. These need to be protected from mankind because of our ignorance more than space needs to be explored. What good is it knowing the sky when the earth below us disappears? As for your Five Eyes you missed the earth worm that appears in every country to fortify the soil making Levis, Bagels & saltbeef. You also underestimate the innovation of the British. The discoveries in the garden shed & the robbery of invention by the US as payment for assistance in the Liberation of Europe.

    Jambug – there is no limit to what a working man can achieve if he has hunger for success. If you do not search for a goal no one will give you a clue as to where it is. You must learn the ways of success from those who are successful.

  • Jambug
    Sorry but I believe with my heart and soul that Britain in the long run will be better of out of the EU. It’s up to the British people to keep a close eye as you say as to what is going on in the Parliament and I believe that they will. In this Nation today we have had many people who’s vote was also a vote against the Government because of the way that our old sick, disabled and people living in poverty. Working class people living on the breadline and having to use food banks. This Government now knows that the people of Britain have had enough and when we cannot house our people and they live on the streets and die there something had to give and I believe this was the result on the 23rd June. I would rather be under our own laws that that of. Brussels.
    This will take time and I agree a very close eye needs to be kept as for the House of Lords I agree with Meance that they have been of some use but it needs to be replaced. These men and women in the Lords are appointed by the Government at least. I believe in my Country deeply and we will be better of though it may take time but I would rather work towards knowing we live or fall by our own hands than that which is making our decision’s and laws in another Country and is starting to fall itself. The idea was a good one at the time to help keep peace in Europe and we went into a single market but gradually we became more and more over took and it has went on long enough. We have faced worse in our history and have come through and I’m proud to be a British citizen.
    Nicola Sturgeon makes my skin crawl, this woman knew there was going to be a vote on the EU when Scotland’s referendum was on the go and Scotland voted to remain in the UK. The Scottish people are sick of referendum’s so good luck to her. The decision has been made and it’s time to get on with it now and be the nation we know we can be and will be.