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Pundit talk: Intention and only eye for the ball. What say the laws of the game?

By Walter Broeckx

I have to come back to the first goal from Chelsea. A lof of things have been said about the Alonso-Bellerin assault that went unpunished by the ref. And a lot of rubbish has been said.

Now before I come to the point of this article I will start with  a few things. People who say we only moan because we lost should visit our site a bit more and then they will find out that even when we win we mostly have a lot of things to say about the referee. Winning or losing we analyse him. And we tell it as we have seen it on the images and with the laws of the game in hand.

Laws of the game that can be found here : http://www.fifa.com/mm/Document/FootballDevelopment/Refereeing/02/79/92/44/Laws.of.the.Game.2016.2017_Neutral.pdf

Now at first people said things like: Alonso had no intention to elbow Bellerin so it wasn’t a foul.  People who say such things only prove that they have no real knowledge of the laws of the game. The word intentional foul has been scrapped from the laws. Why? Simply because a referee can’t look inside the head of a player and read his mind. Now the word intentional is mentioned a few times in the laws of the game. But not with what we are dealing here.

On page 92 you can find:
If a player, while correctly taking a free kick, intentionally kicks the ball at  an opponent in order to play the ball again but not in a careless or reckless manner or using excessive force, the referee allows play to continue.

On page 99 you can find:
If a player, while correctly taking a throw-in, intentionally throws the ball at an opponent in order to play the ball again but neither in a careless nor a reckless manner or using excessive force, the referee allows play to continue.

On page 108 you can find:
If a player, while correctly taking a corner kick, intentionally kicks the ball  at an opponent in order to play the ball again but not in a careless or reckless manner or using excessive force, the referee allows play to continue.

On page 164 you can find:

Intentional:  A deliberate action (not an accident)

And this refers to the text I have shown on page 92, 99 and 108. So nowhere in the laws of the game it is written that a ref has to judge if a foul has been made with a certain intention. This criteria to judge fouls has been removed. Anyone still quoting it is showing his lack of knowledge.

Let us look at the “he had his eye on the ball” talk.  If we check the word eye (as that is vital in this) we find 12 hits in the laws of the game. And all 12 of them refer to eye contact between the officials on the field. Nowhere is there written in the laws of the game that a ref should take notice of the eyes of a player. Simply because a referee can’t look in the eyes of a player when he makes a foul.

Did Alonso only look at the ball? Who says so? Didn’t he see Bellerin? Who proves this? Yes sometimes a player can’t see an opponent when he makes a foul. When a player jumps in from behind this can be seen as a softening circumstance in the punishment. Not in the foul itself but it can be used to determine the card.

But in this case Alonso had Bellerin in front of him. And was Bellerin in his visual field?  I’m not a doctor but if I take Wikipedia: “The normal (monocular) human visual field extends to approximately 60 degrees nasally (toward the nose, or inward) from the vertical meridian in each eye, to 107 degrees temporally (away from the nose, or outwards) from the vertical meridian, and approximately 70 degrees above and 80 below the horizontal meridian.[2][3][4]

then I think he should have been in the visual field of Alonso. Which makes using the elbow worse of course. And the visual field is the field you have without moving the eyes. And nobody can say if Alonso didn’t move his eyes for a split second from the ball. The fact that he came in with an arm raised seems to imply he did know somebody might be there.

But a ref can’t see or judge this. So refs don’t have to judge it at all and people who do this are talking bullshit as they simply cannot know if Alonso “only had eye for the ball” I think we can move our eyes around in multiple directions within split seconds (again I am not a doctor but from own testing just now). The only one who can know it is Alonso. And thus a referee has to make no decision on ‘did he have only eye for the ball”. That can only be used to determine if a red card should be given or a yellow card.

What is then important on judging a foul or not? In this case the fact that one player comes in from a distance with his arm leading towards the head of an opponent. That alone is enough to call a foul as attacking the head of an opponent with the arm or elbow is dangerous. And dangerous play is a foul. Period. No discussion. The fact that Alonso first made contact with the head of Bellerin before heading the ball makes the foul even clearer. For those who want to see.  So you can come up with all kinds of pundit talk (pundits who know nothing about the laws of the game by the way) it was a foul.

Now the card. As Bellerin was in front of Alonso that is an aggravating circumstance.  This means that Alonzo neglected the caring part of his job. Yes players are responsible and have to take care of the well being of their opponents. Being careless is always a foul. But it is not a yellow card foul. Just another part of why it was a foul.

But then we have to judge if it was reckless. Because a reckless foul is a foul that should be yellow carded. And we can say that jumping with the arm towards the face of an opponent and hitting him is reckless. Because a smack to the head can cause a serious injury. So the least card is a yellow card. In fact that is the least punishment that a ref should always give when an arm is swung against the head of an opponent.

And then we have to come to the was it using excessive force.  Because that is something we can judge as a ref with no problems. Even not being a doctor. If you see a bone sticking out of the leg of a fouled player you can safely conclude that the offender used a bit of excessive force. And send him off.  If the smacking arm/elbow (the same for the laws of the game) knocks a player unconscious you know that excessive force was used. And then you can only send him off. Keep in mind that Bellerin didn’t roll around on the floor as some other players do. No he fell flat on the floor and just lay there clearly not knowing what hit him (the elbow of Alonso, Hector) and was completely out of this world.  And for those who think it wasn’t that bad lets take a look at knocked out Bellerin

So the only conclusion can be: excessive force was used because otherwise he wouldn’t have been knocked out.

Now you can of course debunk this and come up with pundit talk, its no use and not important. The laws of the game and the instructions are what matter. Not what Murphy, Shearer or Henry is saying. Because they are not referees and to tell the truth the knowledge of the laws of the game with players is very low. Frightening low in fact…

 

PS : a late addition to this article as still people claim that Bellerin used his arms. Look at it, just look at it

Next up a first view at the new U23 team

128 comments to Pundit talk: Intention and only eye for the ball. What say the laws of the game?

  • MickHazel

    Thanks Walter, you have made it absolutely clear, the wording of the law is explicit and cannot be manipulated to suit anyone’s own agenda.
    It is impossible for anyone to even attempt to logically dispute your explanation but I am absolutely sure a few of the usual suspects will try.

  • Michael Anderson

    Sky’s puppet ex-referee has now said that it is not a foul and he would be astounded to have seen it given.

    This just goes to prove that the incompetence in refereeing is not new.

  • OlegYch

    alonso used his hands to gain advantage without regard for the health of the opponent
    pretty sure the laws say you can’t handle other players, so there is no way that could have been allowed if laws were applied properly

    the ref should also ensure no injuries occur on the field, hence the understandable red card for Xhaka
    after that red card i’ve seen Giroud and Ox pull out at the last moment to avoid any hint of contact
    it looks like pl refs only care about non-Arsenal players health so far

  • alladin

    Actually what I saw is this
    1. Both Alonso and Bellerin jumped with their elbows leading
    2. Bellerin jumps leaning into Alonso
    3. Alonso being taller and having jumped earlier had the height advantage
    4. Because of points2 &3 above, bellerin jumps into Alonso’s elbow
    5. Based on 2,3&4 above, if I were the ref, I would consider it unfair to deny Chelsea the goal. However, if Chelsea were already 3goals up, I would disallow the goal simply on compassionate (don’t kick a man when he’s already down) grounds.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Alladin, so a decision has to be made based on the score of the match …. this is excactly what I mean with pundit talk. Incidents have to be viewed based on the law of the game. Not based on the scoreline. But if pundits do this often enough people take that this is how it should be…

  • WalterBroeckx

    Alladin, just look at the link I have added. How on earth can you say that Bellerin was leading with his elbow????? https://www.facebook.com/TrollFootballVideos/videos/806862492785929/ Here it is again…

    Bellerin used his arms to lift himself and then lowered his arms as it should be. No way he was leading with an elbow towards an opponent.

  • WalterBroeckx

    As I just read in the comment section: none more blind than those who don’t want to see…..

  • WalterBroeckx

    LOL it should have been a red card against Bellerin for headbutting the elbow of poor Alonso…..

  • alladin

    @walter
    That’s funny right? Same thing I thought when I read Menace’s comment on an occasion when it was an arsenal players elbow to the opponents head
    2. I think its obvious in the video bellerin jumps with his elbows out. How did u put it? None more blind…

  • Al_The_Gunner

    alladin
    what a bull…
    here’s video of posted by Walter of “Both Alonso and Bellerin jumped with their elbows leading”
    https://www.facebook.com/TrollFootballVideos/videos/806862492785929/

    theres only one man jumped with elbow towards the other players chin

    i’ve just have a talk this another ‘alladin’, there’s no point to waist a second with all that beggars

  • MickHazel

    I don’t normally call people names and try not to be rude but on this occasion I am making an exception.
    Alladin you are an idiotic p***t.

  • Al_The_Gunner

    alladin
    last try
    here’s your ‘obvious in the video bellerin jumps with his elbows out’
    the moment of contact
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8r_wRNDlzHpZV90aXdyX01vWDA

  • OlegYch

    Alladin, alonso jumps first and yet Bellerin is the one who lowers his arms first…
    alonso didn’t lower his exactly because he wanted to kick Bellerin
    he might have kicked Bellerin in the body and that would have been a simple foul, but since he ended up kicking him in the head and knocking unconcious – it’s a red

  • Jimbo

    We still have two big trophies to play for plus champions league qualification.We need to get behind the team otherwise we become pathetic whingers just like the plastics on the Online Gooner.

  • OlegYch

    alladin, Bellerin lowers his hands after that… and alonso doesn’t – that the difference
    i’m sure you’ll see it if you scroll the video a few milliseconds further

  • Usama Zaka

    Explained it well, loud and clear Walter, as it should be done, unlike the medjia who have brushed it under carpet as always.

    ….

    El Nenny had a top game yesterday at AFCON Cup Final, coming back from injury playing full 90 mins and scoring a nice goal. But Egypt lost 2-1 to Cameroon. Given El Nenny arrives match fit and arrives tommorrow in London he should start straight in our first 11, with Ramsey injured, Xhaka suspended and Coquelin out of form. El Nenny and Ox for Hull in my opinion.

  • Usama Zaka

    Nearly everyone raises their hands to make a jump for a header, but the difference in between a foul or serious foul is maintaining the raised/swung arms in to contact. Which in this case only Alonso was guilty off.

  • bjtgooner

    Thank you Walter for this further explanation. When I was reading through it I was tempted to think that even the most stupid aaaa types will at last start to understand – but there is always one…..

  • alladin

    @oleg
    Lol, really? He got his hands down in milliseconds?
    Walter u see what I mean? People do say the darndest things on this blog, like an opponent headbutting an arsenal players elbow according to menace.
    Anyway even you can’t deny anymore that bellerin jumps with his elbows up

  • OlegYch

    alladin, normally people use their hands for lift off while jumping, and then they lower their hands
    try it

  • alladin

    @Usama, @least you agree he jumps with elbow leading? If you @least accept that, then we have made a bit of progress

  • OlegYch

    alladin, though i can understand the confusion if magic carpets are your thing 😉

  • The most absolute clutching at straws I have ever seen .
    Firstly the first goal should not even be an incident .
    Bellerin should have made sure he knocked the bastard out the way end of
    In the event of the goal being disallowed we still would have lost because we were second best .
    Wengers own words Quote ” I’m not happy with the performance ”

    Which I think means we were shit / not good enough to win

  • History will never ever record one word or review by Untold . Your wasting your time and effort take my advice spend that time with your family life is to short , and they are far more important .

  • alladin

    @oleg, all, usama etc
    My point is simple, u saw what you saw, the ref saw what he saw. No point whining 3days after. Arsenal can hardly complain about ref decisions this season, off the top of my head I can mention at least 5occasions I believe we’ve had the rub of the green even though walter would like to put a spin on it
    1. Koscielnys basketball goal against Burnley after expiry of added time
    2. 3players offside when we score against Tottenham
    3. Last minute penalty against Southampton for a phantom foul
    4. Offside penalty against Burnley
    5. Ruled out goal against Bournemouth when it was obvious ball to hand as against koscielnys hand to ball
    And the ones that didn’t fetch us extra points like chambers offside goal against Liverpool

  • Scuba

    If the ref had done his job and blown the play dead after Bellerin shoved Costa while shooting, we aren’t wasting our time trying to make a foul on a 50/50 ball into a red card offense. Consistency here is the key, for me, and had Costa been Giroud and Bellerin been Azpilicueta, this blog would be bitching about the stonewall penalty that Arsenal were denied. Had Bellerin been Azpilicueta and Alonso been Monreal, this blog would probably see it as a simple foul and no more.

    The reason you guys end up getting so many comments about the tinfoil hats and so forth is because you’re showing real bias in these reviews. They’re a brilliant idea, but you can’t have a fan of one side or the other writing them, and then expect them to be bias-free. It’s like watching Cory Lewandowski on CNN during the US presidential election…the guy had deep ties with one side and a clear agenda, and it made his punditry hard to take seriously.

  • Scuba

    And by the way, that wasn’t a penalty for me at all. I’m just making the point that if the teams were reversed here, we’d see people crying for that to have been called based on past ref reviews.

  • Usama Zaka

    What I said was raising hands not elbow while jumping, again nearly everyone does that.

    According to that picture above Bellerin’s full arm is straight and stretched forward taking his elbow well out of the question. Alonso on the other hand has a nearly 90 degree arm angle causing the elbow to extend right in the direction of Bellerin’s face.

    Again there is nothing wrong/foul in raising hands when jumping. What is wrong is maintaining that raised/swung arm the moment you attempt that header.

    The very simple fact about headers is when we use the word “challenge” it clearly means that there is 1 other player or more than that for the header. That is the reason when you “challenge” you know that you should not maintain the raised/swung arm because there is also someone else jumping up with his head.

    An example below, look at Ronaldo, he jump raising his hands and straightens it nicely the moment he makes a header.

    https://youtu.be/at_jeLqBTJk

  • Gord

    There is another place where “intent” can be read into an action.

    If a player (say perhaps 8 years old) is being taught to defend against a corner kick made by the opposing team, or to attack a corner kick made by his/her team; and is being told by the coach to get their arms up, keep their elbows out or many other things, it is the _INTENT_ of the coach to teach the player a dangerous act of play which is illegal.

    The player could blindly go through an entire career, doing that same thing over and over. Or in the case of how these players learn this in the first place, go on to become a coach themselves and now teach that to players.

    But the _intent_ was from the first coach that started this. Teaching a player to do something illegal in a particular circumstance.

    Why is it illegal? Because a player can get hurt from contact which often results from this kind of play.

    Many players claim to be intelligent, and yet they still perform these kinds of actions. Why? Do they not ever think about what they are doing? Probably not. It has been coached into them, so that it becomes instinct and is no longer an act of conscious thought.

    Which has nothing to do with it being an illegal tactic.

  • OlegYch

    alladin, your points are rubbish i must say
    the first three are plain wrong, the others i agree but if you put things into perspective and count the decisions that went against Arsenal in those games you’ll see that they are just paper over cracks
    you can revisit the reviews or ask specific questions about them, perhaps someone would be willing to show you the relevant parts of the laws

  • Andrew Crawshaw

    In case anyone thought that the continuing assault on Arsenal by the referees would end now that we are out of the title race think again – Here are the officials for Hull on Saturday:-
    Referee: Mark Clattenburg
    Assistants: J Collin, A Holmes
    Fourth official: R East

  • Usama Zaka

    Think, read, write what you want you think is best, alladin, Shoot, Scuba. No one is forcing anyone here. Its normal nature for anyone to agree/disagree. An insult/abuse/accusation free argument provides for a healthy debate. Thanks for reading UA.

    =============================

    All the decisions from the league this season have been well covered with complete and clear video footage for single one of them possible, and backed up by laws of the game.

    Here are the links if in case the search bar doesn’t work.

    https://justpaste.it/137rk

  • OlegYch

    alladin, not sure how your pictures are relevant…
    the first one is from CL game, the second one is a penalty against Arsenal, the third one is from another era

  • Scuba

    Glad I’m now having comments moderated because I have the audacity to disagree with the writer, and offer constructive criticisms. No reason to debate the point, just erase the other viewpoint.

  • Menace

    alladin – you make more magic rubbing your lamp ( perhaps it is something more modern) than the fable. You obviously don’t have a sense of humour either.

  • JimB

    Walter – you may indeed know a fair amount about refereeing. But you are not, in any respect, an expert on physiology. And that is the problem with much of your argument. You are basing it on a woefully incomplete understanding of the body.

    You claim that, because Alonso was facing Bellerin, he must therefore have known exactly where Bellerin was in relation to his trajectory.
    And sure, you are correct to say that Bellerin was well within Alonso’s field of vision. However, the brain is a fantastic editor. It ignores and deletes a good 95% of what the eye sees. Especially so when it perceives there to be a subject of particular importance upon which to focus (In this instance, the ball, of course). So while Alonso would indeed have been aware that Bellerin was in the vicinity, it is highly unlikely that he would have had a precise mark on him our his movements.

    He wouldn’t have known until the last moment whether or not Bellerin was also taking a running jump. He wouldn’t have known until the last moment whether Bellerin was jumping higher or lower than him.

    You also appear to be unaware that it is nigh on impossible for any normal human being to jump without using their arms as leverage. You will notice that Bellerin too uses his arms. And the reason why Bellerin gets hurt by Alonso – and not vice versa – is simply that Alonso jumps much higher and his arms therefore remain up for longer.

    Lastly, with regard to the body, it isn’t actually necessary for there to be excessive force to cause a concussion. It can, on occasion, be caused by an innocuous impact. On other occasions, the head can sustain what appears to be a heavy knock without any resultant concussion.

    All of which is to say that, whether or not Atkinson should have blown for a foul, it most certainly shouldn’t have been a red card. And certainly not on the basis of your amateur assertions about the human body.

    For you persistently to describe the incident as an “assault” is mere confirmation bias , hyperbole, and a priori fallacy – far too common traits on this site, alas – all while innocently claiming disinterested objectivity.

  • alladin

    @oleg
    I read the reviews, im sorry walter and usama, but frankly I think they’re not worth the paper they’re written on(figuratively).
    I like the new reviews with video evidence but more often than not I find I agree with the decisions of the ref on the pitch than those of the reviews. Of course you don’t agree but that’s how life is, we agree to disagree

  • Usama Zaka

    Andrew,

    I am seeing a dangerous pattern here now.

    Last season in Nov-Dec first it was Clattenburg for West Brom we lost after lots and lots of decisions against us. The very next fixture against Spuds was Atkinson, we drew, again with penalties and red card against us.

    This season in first it was Clattenburg for Everton, we lost, after penalty, wrong goal and red card against us. The very next fixture against City was Atkinson, we lost, with red cards and wrong goal against us.

    Now again against Chelsea was Atkinson, we lost, after a red card and wrong goal against us. The very next fixture against Hull is Clattenburg…..

    Here are the links.

    https://justpaste.it/1382d

  • alladin

    @menace, I laughed when u suggested Joe Allen (I believe) headbutted xhaka’s (I believe) elbow
    @oleg
    The pics are not supposed to be a point for discussion, just saying I don’t remember untold telling us much when they happened. I’m certain most regulars on untold denied xhaka’s elbow being a penalty. Walter in the reviews called it soft and said he wud have been comfortable with it only if similar events went our way

  • OlegYch

    you might agree or not with refs decisions, but you probably notice that they are not consistent, that’s the main point
    eg an elbow by Xhaka is a penalty, an elbow by Alonso is not a foul
    a two footed tackle by Roho is not a red, a two footed tackle by Xhaka is red
    a push by Fraser is not a foul, a push by Xhaka is a penalty
    an offside by Mkhitaryan/Ibra/Kane/Sane is a goal, an goal by Ramsey is offside (okay Chambers was an offside but that’s the only one in several years)

  • Gord

    We get a constant supply of people to Untold, suggesting that it is impossible for Walter to review Arsenal games. These people have obviously never had the pleasure of meeting a “professional”. I am not speaking of someone paid to play football. I am speaking of someone who works in a profession, and has a professional attitude towards the task at hand. Doctors, lawyers and engineers are examples of professionals working in a profession.

    Not every game shows examples, but it is not hard to find examples. But if you never look, it is easy to believe that it must be true.

    REF REVIEW BOURNEMOUTH – ARSENAL
    http://untold-arsenal.com/archives/59458

    19:08 the Xhaka penalty

    14:33 Ramsey offside

    48:11 Sanchez call for penalty

    76:31 Mustafi persistent infringement

  • OlegYch

    alladin, Untold doesn’t do reviews for CL or 10-year old games, and all Xhaka penalties were admitted as correct on Untold

  • alladin

    @oleg
    You’re right about inconsistencies in the ref decisions, I agree. Just like the reviews here are inconsistent. When xhaka elbows, its a soft touch, headbutt to the elbow. When Alonso elbows its GBH, lock him up.
    My point is there are factors that may lead to such inconsistencies, and in my opinion we’ve had our fair share of it favoring us this season. Let’s just allow the refs do their jobs please.
    You may not rate the refs in the EPL, but obviously the rest of the world do, except you’re suggesting the pgmo has been bribing FIFA, uefa etc to land high profile matches

  • OlegYch

    just remembered that someone was also offside vs WHU
    as you rightly pointed out both offsides only affected scoreline but not the flow of the match or result

  • ossasa

    Bellerin led with a limp wrist but if we look at the attempt just before which hit the bar and the lead up we see Chelsea man for man are physically more determined and as a consequence Bellerin was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He is not at his best defending in the middle and really is a frustrated midfielder. He went for the challenge in the fashion of a slight attacking midfielder. Sounds familiar.

  • Andrew Crawshaw

    We currently have 7 wrong Important Decisions favouring Arsenal this season from the games where we have published referee reviews.
    1 Arsenal v Burnley – Giroud should have had a red card in Min82for a high foot on Tarkowski
    2 & 3 Arsenal v Burnley wrongly awarded penalty and goal in Min 90+6 (Koscielny was offside)
    4 Arsenal v Bournemouthh – Alexis should have had a red card in Min 62 for studs up challenge on Arter
    5 Arsenal v Borneouth – Bournemouth should have had a penalty in Min 73 (Montreal handball)
    6 Arsenal v Liverpool Chambers goal in Min 75 was wrongly given (he was offside)
    7 West Ham v Arsenal Min 86 Alexis hat-trick goal should not have counted as he was offside.

    We also have recorded 46 wrong Important Decisions against Arsenal, 13 second yellow cards, 19 red cards, 10 penalties and 4 goals.

    All of these are backed up by video clips of the incidents from as many angles as we could find and I am confident that the decisions are as free from bias as it is possible to get. They also clearly state which laws of the game we believe to have been broken.

  • alladin

    @oleg
    Have a nice evening bro. We disagree on several issues, but we support our arsenal in our own way.
    Wishing the boys best of luck for the rest of the season

  • alladin

    @andrew
    As long as you’re aware those numbers are your opinions.

  • OlegYch

    alladin, Bellerin was knocked unconcious yet Welsh Xavi easily continued the match, do you see why they should have been treated differently yet? if not please consult the laws
    PL refs are the only that are consistently ‘different’ from other refs, every commentator i’ve seen admits that

    though some refs come pretty close, eg http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/3029872/Korean-miracle-spoilt-by-refereeing-farce.html https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EyGBN5weFg
    notice how telegraph uses very similar rhetoric to Untold
    it took more than 10 years to uncover the limits of corruption in Fifa, who knows how much time it will take to do the same in the money cow that is PL

  • Al_The_Gunner

    stop feeding the troll

    no arguments, no thoughts
    just trolling

  • Nate

    100% true Walter. Thank you! People confuse supporting a team for having a narrow minded bias, but you prove this wrong every single day, pure fact. I’m sure then, you will get thousands of people screaming hate in your direction. You are a supporter worth having on one’s side Walter.

  • Ben

    I was thinking more of the long term effects on people saying that this is ok. Eg. If the same player tries this in the Champions league or even an international tournament and realises it is not acceptable he will only be letting his team down.
    If the pundits and media say it is ok then really they should not be surprised if an England player is sent off for the same thing because the player reads and hears it is ok to do that.

  • Al_The_Gunner

    there’s no such thing as neutrality in stats and facts
    there was no elbowing from bellerin, and was dangerous play from chlenski player with REAL danger
    yes, arsenal players use elbow as well nobody said they’re not (in case of Paulista it was a foul, but no real danger) and booked or penalize for this (it is exactly what this site about about THE RULES and following them)

  • Tom

    Walter
    I’ve seen this play now on three different feeds from three different sources and not one commentator gave a hint of a foul play before seeing different slow motion replays , including the guy on arsenalplayer.com.

    Like I said before I have no problem with you or anyone else calling it a foul, but to say the ref missed it because he is biased or has an agenda, is in this particular instance wrong.
    First rule of refereeing- you can’t give what you don’t see, and the fact no Arsenal player objected to the ruling says it all really. In the real time it didn’t look a foul.

    Also , you can point out any number of decisions during any game where two or more referees will disagree with a call and it doesn’t mean one is better than others – hence the phrase ” not for me” or ” seen them given” .

    This game wasn’t stolen from us , nor was the season. Arsenal haven’t been good enough and that’s the truth.
    We are an elite club with certain shortcomings throughout the whole organization and if you accept this as I have, you’ll save yourself a lot of aggravation.

  • OlegYch

    Tom, the ref is on the field (instead of on the stands or watching tv) exactly because he is better positioned to see incidents this way
    sure, a slow-mo replay is way better than seeing it live on pitch, but live tv action is way worse than on-field view
    not to mention that none of the people you mentioned are qualified referees

  • WalterBroeckx

    A nice example of what we have to read behind the fence of the public and closed side of the website:
    “Non more deluded than those who can’t handle the truth alonso did nothing wrong!! Deal with it!” and the next one is even nicer: “Walter your a rank amateur Sunday morning pub ref at best! You don’t even have the right to clean the refs boots in the premiership! So take your shit opinions and shove them up your Belgium Arse! Your an embarrassment to the Arsenal! And will do anything to try and make people see the truth! You are Walter Sean spicer! Full of shit”

    Thanks for the compliments mr. Stephen Smith. If that is your real name of course.

    Oh yeah he wanted to see his comments published under the nickname ‘Walter is a prick’

    oh well.
    And using different mail addresses also… and then you go crying to Le Groan that you are banned on Untold ?

  • Menace

    alladin – the ref did give the foul. Strange how the select officials select what they see. Must be something in the northern water.

  • Menace

    Walter – just remember there are thousands who love your reviews & millions who read Untold. The good thing that these idiots do & don’t know they are doing is increasing the click count & increasing revenue for Untold. It all stems from the fact that they are illiterate & cannot understand the title of this blog.

  • Al_The_Gunner

    Tom
    the fact that no Arsenal player objected to that didn’t mean anything first of all.
    and you know that even if all arsenal players start shouting at refs face that won’t change a thing, except some can be booked
    and if you really want to argue with Walters analysis just write your refs review with argument and rule explanations
    that will be something
    but ‘i don’t think so’ or ‘it is your opinion’ is just your opinion
    take any Walters game review or all of then and explain where Walter was wrong and why

  • WalterBroeckx

    alladin did you have a look at the moving images I gave. If you did you would see that Bellerin lowered his arms when he was clasched against his head.
    And was Bellerin drunk when on the floor or knocked unconscious? For the umpteenth time : a concussion is a serious injury. And cannot be taken lightly.

    You say we are wrong as it just our opinion.
    Why is your opinion better than ours? I really would like to know.

    I must say you seem to have been digging very deep to find pictures of Fabregas in an Arsenal shirt…

  • Jerry

    @alladin,

    Your argument is pretty flawed. In 2 of the pictures you highlighted, if you follow the links associated with the images, fouls were called against Arsenal (Xhaka (penalty) + Fabregas) which is exactly what Untold has been saying:

    The fouls are being called when an Arsenal player commits the offense, but not when the Arsenal player is the victim.

    For example, instances where opponents got away with fouling Arsenal players and nothing was called:
    Alonso elbowing Bellerin yesterday
    Charlie Adam putting Sanchez in a chokehold,
    Cahill flying in on Sanchez while Ivanovic elbows Ozil in the face
    Ivanovic literally kicking Ozil in the face on a throw in
    Norwich player pushing Sanchez into the camera pit
    Arnoutovic pushing Debuchy into the hoardings
    and many many more

  • WalterBroeckx

    Menace, as a referee we are used to some name calling. 🙂

  • Usama Zaka

    Walter,

    The best part about those comments is that they bother reading and viewing this site again and again, just to throw abuse.

    Moderating comments is a rough job.

  • Gord

    We have 2 teams playing each other, not on neutral grounds. One team is home and the other is away.

    The home team scores a goal at 12 minutes.

    The away team is issued a yellow card at 18 minutes.

    The home team is issued a yellow card at 23 minutes.

    The home team is issued a yellow card at 38 minutes.

    Half time.

    The home team is issued a yellow card at 46 minutes, right after restart.

    The home team scores a second goal.

    The home team is issued yet another yellow card at 56 minutes.

    The home team is issued still another yellow card at 72 minutes. In fact, the player receiving this yellow is one of the goal scorers.

    The referee gives a penalty to the away team at 73 minutes, which is converted.

    The home team receives the final yellow of the game at 90 minutes.

    Is the home team stupid? Getting 2 yellow cards to one for the away team might be close to normal, but don’t you think the home team would have learned by the third or fourth yellow card, that they needed to stop fouling? And yet, by the end of the game the home team has been given 6 yellow cards and had a penalty given against it. You can be darned sure that the home fans were not calling for the referee to hand out all this advantage to the away team.

  • Rosicky@Arsenal

    Andrew Crashaw at 4:28
    Hope people can see UA openly admits favourable decisions for Arsenal as well.

    But i am afraid the non believers will not agree anf keep on criticising UA.

    Keep up the good work.

  • alladin

    @jerry, like I said earlier those pics were not meant to be taken seriously, I did not post those links to try to argue the point in question, it was meant as a light hearted way to say untold did not tell us much when those events occurred.
    To more important points;
    1. Walter says my opinion is not more valid than his, my point exactly. Its neither our jobs to ref the matches, there are refs paid for that. Yeah bellerins arms were down when the collision occurs, that usually happens I believe after you’ve propelled yourself as much as you can when you jump. It will also interest you to see that Alonso’s arms were in a downward direction too
    2. @oleg, I think we can just agree to disagree. No point in endless repetitions.

  • WalterBroeckx

    What I do find strange however is that they claim to be Arsenal supporters. Okay fine I am willing to accept this.
    But then why they hate us? I don’t hate other Arsenal supporters who have a different opinion. But they insult us, threaten us, yet we are just Arsenal supporters with a different opinion…. That is something I can’t get in my head.

  • alladin

    @jerry
    A few points bro
    1. I believe Adams was yellow carded for the Sanchez choke hold
    2. I believe in the match Cahill escaped a red for the foul on Sanchez, welbeck also escaped same for a similar foul on fabregas
    Also do your many more calls include
    a. Giroud given a penalty against Southampton for a non foul(of course when arsenal benefit its always a foul according to UA)
    b. Bournmouths Francis getting a red card for what exactly?
    c. I mentioned @least 5 debatable decisions that went in arsenal’s favor earlier
    d. That’s before I go back to decisions like cazorlas and Eduardo’s penalty dives against westbrom and Celtic

    But at the end of the day, many of these calls are judgement calls. Entirely in the realm of the refs interpretation of what he sees in the moment. No point crying for 3days over spilt milk, especially when you weren’t really good enough to begin with

  • WalterBroeckx

    alladin I am a referee with some 16 years experience. Judging your comments I hope you are not a referee….

  • alladin

    @walter
    Supporting arsenal is not the same thing as creating alternative facts in arsenal’s favor. I doubt it makes anyone a bad supporter to own up to his team not being good enough on the night

  • WalterBroeckx

    Alladin,
    Adams should have received a red card.
    If Cahill would have been given a red card, Welbeck would not have done the same thing later in the match

    wow 5 decisions according to you that went in our favour…. wow… yeah we are the referees favourite team in the PL. Hurraaaayyyyyy!!!!

  • alladin

    @walter
    Some people doubt your statement. And what difference does that make seeing as you’ve been trying to let us see that people like Riley who probably have more than 16years experience are no good?

  • Norman14

    Regarding the visualisation raised by Walter, this suggests then that Alonso MUST have had Hector within his line of sight because he was between himself, the ball and his target (the goal).

    People saying otherwise are suggesting that it was a “blind” header that luckily found it’s way into the goal.

    Lots of pink pigs floating around then – must’ve blocked everybody else’s sight!

  • WalterBroeckx

    Because I base my statements on the laws of the game and the naysayers base it on what the pundits in MOTD say.
    Have you used the laws of the game to show when a review was wrong? If not, I will no longer waste my time on you as you don’t bring anything important to the discussion.

    LOL based on your arguments at least you agree that there is something seriously wrong with the PL referees.

    What is your opinion on the lies that have been told by the FA, PL, PGMO that they would make sure 24 full time referees would be available to do the PL matches. And now we see only 14 full time referees in the PL.

  • alladin

    @walter
    “If Cahill would have been given a red card, welbeck would not have done the same thing later..”
    Lol, this Is hilarious. Coming from the man who’s always bashing the press for having the audacity to infer what arsenal fans are thinking, this is the most ‘omniscient’ statement ever. Seriously? You were inside of welbz brain?

  • WalterBroeckx

    No I wasn’t in his head but those things happen when players get frustrated by the behaviour of the referee. That was the only time Welbeck ever made such a tackle that I can remember. So maybe he was being a bit frustrated by the treatment of the ref?

    I admit that I should have used the word ‘might’ but that happens with those pesky foreigners who don’t have English as their mother language. They sometimes us the wrong words.

  • WalterBroeckx

    And now I have answered you, could you answer to my question please?

  • MickHazel

    Alladin
    Walter has justified his argument by using the laws of the game.
    Now can you justify your alternative view using the laws of the game?

  • alladin

    @walter
    1. U base your judgements on your *INTERPRETATION* of the laws of celebration the game Walter. The same way all the other referees and commenters do
    2. Its also your opinion what I do or don’t bring to the discussion. You’re perfectly entitled to them
    3. My opinion on the pgmo not having 24 full time refs? I can’t say its lies until I have more info. For all we know, the pgmo may not trust more than the number they have right now to do the job, they may not have the funds needed, they may be working towards that target or may have down the line found out that they can do a satisfactory job with the number they have right now. Either way, I think you have provided insufficient info to arrive at the conclusion that lies is at the bottom of this

  • Leon

    I don’t know why this is still such a big issue.
    Two guys both intent on heading the same ball at the same time. There was only ever going to be one outcome there. The little guy would get poleaxed by the big fellow.
    There will not be universal agreement on this. Was it deliberate? I doubt it, but definitely card worthy.
    Don’t know why there has to be so much unpleasantness over it.
    Well I do actually, this is so typical of UA.

  • WalterBroeckx

    alladin, search this website and read the dozens of articles I wrote about it. I have given the info a few weeks ago even. Complete with links to the original articles that appeared on the BBC website. If you don’t take the trouble to do this there is no need to talk to you further.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Come to think of it, to not spoil this site for the regular readers I will hold you in moderation till you have read those articles and till you have come up with reviews using the laws of the game. You can post your comment still but they will only appear when you have done this so we can discuss this based on facts and evidence.

  • Leon

    Walter

    Please don’t hold Alladin in moderation. He’s a breath of fresh air amongst the general stench this match has generated.

  • Leon

    God almighty, now I’m being held in moderation.

  • Anon

    I think the best way to resolve the Alonso elbow debate is to for you to do a running jump and mime heading a ball, do it twice; once as naturally as possible and the second time keeping your arms raised 90-ish the whole time and see which feels more natural.

    In general I think English refereeing sets a poor standard, the consistently ignore(don’t punish with yellow cards early enough)persistent fouling, time wasting and professional fouls deep in the opponents half. This kills the tempo of the games and causes the ref to lose control of the game. I was watching Juve vs Inter yesterday and the ref punished a professional foul deep in Juve’s half which prevented a counter with a yellow. He set a standard and the game retained its high tempo. Jon Moss and Mike Dean are both terrible at controlling games in any match i’ve seen them in not just Arsenal matches.

  • bjtgooner

    Walter, well done, you have kept your cool and out-debated “alladin”. A long spell in moderation pending his response is better than deserves.

    Leon – I am not sure if you are being held in moderation or not, but if so, your contributions will not be missed!

  • Leon

    Neville wants to go on Arsenal FanTV. Have Sky sacked him then?

  • Anon

    While this site is inherently biased it does highlight important points and constructively criticises referee performances. English referees are protected by this falsehood that they are infallible and should be “given a break” but they aren’t looking to improve. You have to be able to highlight their flaws so that they can work on them.

    In the MLS they can retroactively punish dangerous tackles regardless of what the referee gave or saw at the time. In Scotland they can retroactively punish diving. In the Netherlands they are conducting trials with video refereeing.

    Of equal importance is the fact that the Netherlands now allow their referees to explain their decisions(although I can’t find anything about this in British media, I would appreciate it if a Dutch fan could confirm this). This communication is the remedy to the increasing violence and aggression towards referees as it allows people to understand and sympathise with them, not just judge them (it was introduced in the Netherlands after the murder of a referee).

  • Mac

    Thats it Walter put everyone in moderation who doesnt agree with your views and dare criticise your posts validity on the decision for the first goal.That way your dozen or so followers can pat you on the back and say what a brilliant asessment of the decisions and rules of the chelsea game.You are as biassed one way as some of le-grove postersare as biased the other and your last 2 blogs dont show you in a good light.You even had the temerity to say that it was a pretty even game.Quite scary really and anyone with an ounce of a football brain could see that that wasnt the case. Hardly any mention has been of the way Arsenal have capitulated once again and our lack of leadership and fight for the big games..This trait and our tactical nievity is something that has run through our club for years and sadly until the manager leaves we will continue to just make up the numbers .The club is in a comfort zone,the manager is in a comfort zone and our players are in a comfort zone and that is not a good thing.Change needs to happen and i hope Arsene realises this for the good of Arsenal Football Club

  • finsbury

    Some guidelines for disingenious idiots:

    Rugby Football:
    Elbow in the face = red card

    Association Football
    Elbow in the face = red card

    pgMOB Rules (OK?) ‘Foot’ball
    Elbow in the face = depends upon who is playing

  • finsbury

    English Football before Riley:

    Beating Holland, Argentina, the odd slump, a normal football team

    English Football after Riley:

    Ecuador, Costa Rica, Iceland

    Read it and weep trolls
    ROFL!

  • WalterBroeckx

    Mac, he was trolling the site and this is against the house rules.

  • WalterBroeckx

    alladin do you mean that because I am not an English resident I have no right to criticise the PGMO?

    by the way anyone using the word alladin is now held in moderation because that is how the software works.
    So have to clear my own post

  • WalterBroeckx

    Alladin, And to answer you question : yes I indirectly pay for the PGMO. Because I pay for my sports channel I donate money to the PL and the PGMO.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Leon, sorry someone ignoring the images and saying that Bellerin also used his elbow is enough to lose any credibility. If you call that a breath of fresh air…
    His pictures were called fouls and punished by the referees.
    He didn’t use a word that can be found in the laws of the game.
    One can have a different opinion but when it is based on distorting what we can see, those who want to see of course… If he wants to he can write an article based on facts about referees.

    The fact that he claims he has read all I have written about the PGMO but doesn’t answer my point about the referees not being with the promised 24 shows that he is not interested in a fair debate but just want to smother a debate. Or he lies by saying he has read everything (I wonder how on earth he managed to stay silent all those years if it was that bad all those years) and is making things up as he writes.

    If he had commented on the reviews in the past then he should have given evidence, but I haven’t seen him. Only since the Chelsea match he has come on this site or commented. I think this is strange for someone who claims our reviews have been rubbish all the time. If so, why did he stay silent all the time?

  • Aki

    A great philosopher* once said that nothing is truly lost until you stop looking for it. Is this where Arsenal are currently?

    There seems to have been several instances over the 13 years since the last title where they have genuinely been one or two players away from the title. It was proven goal scorer at one point and at another it was a defensive midfielder. I may be imagining it but there was a season about six/ seven years ago when they just seemed to be a keeper away from the title and were linked with Mark Schwarzer but Wenger wouldn’t pay the fee. Schwarzer now has two Premier League winners medals.

    Wenger is a brilliant manager, there can be no doubt of that. To be in charge of a massive club for more than 20 years is outstanding. To qualify year, after year, after year for the knock-outs of the Champions League is unprecedented, even by Fergie. However, the difference between Fergie (and others) and Wenger is the killer instinct. Other managers look at their squad, identify the weaknesses and seek to resolve, either internally or externally. To me, Wenger has lost sight of the title, lost sight of winning the Champions League. He is happy to be there or there abouts. He is happy to live a lifetime as a domestic cat rather than an hour as tiger.

  • Leon

    Thanks for releasing me from mods Walter.
    I’m sure bjtgooner will be thrilled. 😈
    There was a funny “lightbulb” joke about UA commenters on LG earlier.
    I’m sure you’d love it (being an ex LG commenter)

  • Rich

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsR8BvXuFQI

    Wanting it more,eh. Fools in Spain sent him off for it. Other bloke probably hurt himself landing awkwardly.

  • bjtgooner

    Rich

    Good link!

  • Polo

    Half-time: Chelsea 1 Arsenal 0
    An absorbing first half draws to a close and Chelsea lead thanks to that Marcos Alonso header after 13 minutes. Arsenal haven’t done a lot wrong and they’ve had good chances, but Chelsea really have them rattled on the counter-attack and have that all-important lead.

    As things stand, the Blues are moving 12 points clear at the top.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4190804/Chelsea-v-Arsenal-LIVE-score-Follow-EPL-action.html

  • para

    Completely agree. A foul should be a foul regardless.
    Personally i think it was a deliberate arm to Hector’s head, but regardless it should be a foul as Walter mentioned above.

  • ARSENAL 13

    hahhahhahhahhahaha…Alladin sends stills, when we present him the full video.

    I want to see Alladin jump.

  • gouresh

    Bloody hell, so much energy wasted debating an elbow. If the players had spent half as much on the pitch, we could have won the match.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Walter , I do admire your calm patience and commitment in the face of such imbecility shown here . Thank you for keeping us sane with your measured replies and appropriate pointers . Thank you .

    As for me ,the stupidity displayed by ‘them ‘ on here was so repetitive and inane and reminded me of this clip .

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQkSMJFJu4g

  • ClockEndRider

    Some of the early commenters in this thread have moved from the jesuitical to the downright disingenuous without passing go. Unbelievable that despite the clearest of video evidence people can still make a case for it not being a foul.
    IHowever, stupid people are more to be pitied than bland. They are simply following the media which they rely on the provide their opinions, not having sufficiently developed critical faculties to do the work themselves.
    No, for me the blame falls squarely on the Sky platform and Henry in particular. Nobody would expect an animal like Sourness to side with anyone other than the transgressor, given his history as both player and manager. But Henry was a total disgrace. I have list all respect for him. He us now just another former player much like, say, Stewart Robson, with an agenda and an utter lack of humility.

  • ClockEndRider

    – bland
    + blamed.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Rich, thanks for that link.
    But we should sent alladin to Spain to make an end to such nonsense. But then again what was the score of the time of the incident? Was it 0-0 then it shouldn’t be a foul or a red card, let alone a yellow card. However if it was 1-0 a foul might be given and a yellow card. But if the score was 2 or 3-0 a foul and a red card can be given. That is how he judges referee decisions. My god, looking back at thar first post I should have removed it but I wanted it to be published in order to show what ridiculous ways of juding referee decisions people use….

  • gouresh

    LK is questioning AWs selection, so does that mean he is part of the AAA?

  • ob1977

    To anyone being stupid enough to say that Alonso wasn’t aware of Bellerin please ask yourself two simple questions (but please don’t bother replying);
    1. Did Alonso get hurt in the collision, be it as a cause of the collision, or on landing, or any part.
    2. Why did he not get injured?

    He didn’t get injured because he had seen Bellerin, put his arms up to make sure he didn’t get hit in the face, prepared himself for the collision, had his expected collision, and then landed accordingly, the run, the jump, positioning of his arm and body, the collision, and subsequent landing, everything happened as he wanted and expected, now compare that to Bellerin’s challenge for the header…

    Of course it was a foul, and serious foul play…
    And as for shearer, referees, the FA, well he (along with the FA and employed puppets) found nothing wrong with kicking a player in the face who was laying on the floor so…

  • ob1977

    If anything I generally find that Walter and the review team are harsh on arsenal to show no arsenal favouritism, much like your Sunday league manager refereeing a match and scr*wing you over to show fairness… 😊

  • bjtgooner

    It may be slightly premature, but the statue of Henry could be removed if his pundrity remains anti Arsenal.

  • Mandy Dodd

    This is all just a part of the most vicious media campaign to have Wenger removed so others can get in the top four, as Wenger said, of course it was a foul.
    Any ex Arsenal player, especially one who owes much of his career to Wenger, as opposed to bitter players Wenger got rid of, should be ashamed of themselves to be going along with the media driven narrative which is out to harm the club and manager.
    this is proof as t why it is so easy for the pgmol to cause such harm to the club

  • MickHazel

    Walter, you will love this, Mark Halsey gives his opinion on the Alonso goal at….

    https://you-are-the-ref.com/ref-show-6th-february-2017/

    In my opinion Halsey makes a quite pathetic attempt to justify his opinion of there having been no foul committed by Alonso.
    Talking about the Mata challenge he correctly analyses it with reference to the laws of the game as Walter does.
    When it comes to the Alonso incident he does not refer to the laws at all, he simply says a collision as a result of two players going for the same space, Alonso gets there first (not according to the clip I saw, Bellerin was there first) using his arms for elevation etc. He even compares it to the Cahill/Mason clash of heads, in other words just one of those things that happen in a challenge.

  • MickHazel

    The frightening thing is that even if we have video technology we could still be screwed if Halsey and his ilk are reviewing the incidents,

  • Menace

    The FA used video in the past to review incidents & deemed that Bergkamp deliberately elbowed an opponent. They use deliberate when it suits. There is nothing they will stop at to continue their corrupt agenda.

    The whole control of the game from the media to the FA to the officials are in this mix of corruption. I do not see anything major changing, just like the 96 poor Hillsboro souls vilified by the Sun, Government & Police, the search for the truth will go on for years.

  • Polo

    I wonder if there any complaints about the Llorente flying arm on Kolorov which was given as a foul? Seem like everybody accept it’s a foul but not Alonso’s, strange.

  • finsbury

    https://www.balls.ie/football/hector-bellerin-concussion-358444

    As the article outlines, there a few deluded people out here at best, but we know they are as evidenced above by the cowardly liars:

    You know. The kind of people that would celebrate elbowing a blindsided opponent in the back of the head. In their own words!

    It’s too funny.

  • Rich

    Walter

    Cheers. Was actually a struggle to find any clips which were in any way similar, then I found that which I think is extremely similar.

    I didn’t find much in general searching for elbow reds or elbow knockout. Most, however, were for players who are on the ground, running or stationary. Amusingly, we featured quite prominently. There was the Campbell Utd one, which was justified for me.

    Then there was, of course, one involving Viera. Hazy, hazy memories but it rung a bell. He was sent off for elbowing Redfern who had apparently been hacking him all game. Main prob was Redfern was clutching his face when the contact was apparently with his shoulder. Wenger accused him of cheating by feigning injury. Curbishley, coming over like a dishonest cry-baby twat, cried about that to FA who, of course, backed his view

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/1999/jan/05/newsstory.sport2

    “Vieira was the one who was cheating because he was breaking football laws by using violent conduct. He raised an elbow with intent to injure Neil and the fact the elbow did not connect with his face is irrelevant.”

    ———-

  • Rich

    I should admit here that I caught people hard with an elbow at least three times when I played. Once on a high header, twice while on ground, shielding once and looking to teach someone a lesson the other.

    Each time the player was behind me and each time I could not have complained if punished. I knew someone was behind me, if not precisely where, and for one reason or another i was not playing as I normally did. At best I was fired up into being reckless or careless; at worst, at least once, I had a bad intention and wanted to hit the opposition.

    The one for the high header came, i think, when I was in a battle or frustrated about something and I remember having a mad desire to win the ball and used the elbow to make sure if anyone tried beating me from behind they’d have to get past the elbow. i pretended otherwise to the furious bloke who got caught with it, but I presume what I describe there is 100% a foul and a bookable offence.

    100% Alonso had an extremely good, probably perfect, idea about Bellerin’s position. Amazed anyone who played even a little bit could suggest otherwise. As an amateur, I felt i had a high level of co-ordiantion and a very strong sense of what was safe or not; the pro’s must have that to an immense degree.

    Even though I absolutely loved the experience of making a strong challenge, situations often arise when you think ‘no, don’t know about that’ or ‘no, not safe’. Others of course don’t care about that, or actually believe the manly, the British thing to do is fly in anyway. And that is where the laws of the game are meant to step in and deal with those who get it wrong.

    Or not amazed. I’d be amazed if I knew they were honest people with any experience doing so.

    It’s also a funny thing about the talk of Theo holding off : he may, I don’t know, have been at fault for not smelling danger and positioning himself in front of Alonso (thought the ball doesn’t bounce off the bar like that often), but after that the only way he, Theo, could have won the header, with the ball coming down directly above Bellerin and him rising to meet it…is by using an elbow to batter Bellerin out of the way!

  • Jammy J

    I just want to chime in and give my support for Walter and the rest of the ref reviewing team. After every loss, but specifically the last one, this website seems to attract a lot of dickheads, who clearly have absolutely no real knowledge of the laws of the game, beyond what they are told by pundits and commentators, who are almost equally as ignorant.

    The fact that these newer posters think they have the know-how to completely discredit the ref reviews (which are done by real, trained referees, as well as having video evidence to back-up the claims), is honestly quite astounding. But then again, it always seems that when idiots are the most ignorant about subject, they also become extremely arrogant and for some reason seem to think that their views are 100% factual correct, even though they clearly know absolutely nothing about the subject.

  • Flares

    Good gracious, all this talk of a contentious foul yet nothing about the standard of play in conceding the other two goals. More to the point…

    1. Why was Bellerin defending a high ball directly in front of the goalmouth? He’s a wing back with significant pace – he might have been positioned wider to take advantage of a possible fast break down, you know, the wings. We have six foot plus centre backs and defensive mids to deal with those situations. Why weren’t they doing so?

    2. Plenty of talk about Walcott ambling around near the touchline instead of getting involved. Why should he? I don’t want him standing near the goal line unless he’s designated the defence of a post at a corner. Only criticism is I’d have wanted him tucked in and further up the pitch to take advantage of possession conversion. He should have been more alert and mobile, but only in readiness for attack. Other wise, leave him be for same reasons as above.#

    3. Why did we lose to Watford? It’s the refs fault. It’s the linesman’s fault. It’s the pitch’s fault. It’s your Mum’s fault. The performance at Chelsea would have likely got us a comfortable victory if replicated against the Hornets. Despite the absolute drivel trotted out by pundits, it doesn’t matter who you lose to, just don’t lose games. One minute it’s ‘you have to perform against the top teams if you want to win the title’, then swiftly moving on to ‘you can’t lose matches to teams like Watford if you want to win the title’. It’s irrelevant. Arsenal picking up four points from these last two matches, in whatever order, would have kept us in the hunt. Two losses at this stage – it could have been to Shrewsbury and Jossy’s Giants for all it matters – is debilitating to the confidence of the team.

    4. Overall mentality is not comparable to situational mentality, that being one’s attitude in a particular moment or response to that moment. Arsenal were imperious in whipping the same Chelsea team at the Emirates earlier. Chelsea’s formation may have been unsatisfactory, but the same players simply didn’t turn up. They had an off day against us, we had one against them. It happens. The defeat against Watford is still the elephant in the room.

  • Dave Ingram

    Ok swop it around Bellerin Elbows Alsonso , is it a Penalty? Card?

  • Menace

    Flares – it’s in the title.

    Write a whole post & send it to Tony if you want to discuss Watford or the miss kicked clearance that allowed Fabregas to score.

    It is never the refs fault but it is the way the ref manages the game. Traffic lights are consistent. Traffic cops aren’t. It’s this human thing.