Chelsea v Arsenal and how Arsenal helped Chelsea overcome Tottenham and enter the League.

Posted on by Tony Attwood

By Billy the Dog McGraw

Celebrations of Herbert Chapman day yesterday went on way into the early hours so we are very late with the Chelsea v Arsenal article, but here it is finally.

The allotment at Enfield is under 16 feet of snow, and Dennis B is sitting in the potting shed looking glum, pondering his pint of Ponder Rosa Pink.   But I still managed to get a word or two.

Chelsea’s origins in 1905 are well known.  A coal tip for the railways was turned into an athletics track, but the idea then came up that it could be a football ground.   So work started and it was named Stamford Bridge with the notion that a non-existent team could be invented to play there.

The name “Chelsea” was chosen, and they applied for a place in the Southern League Division 2.  Tottenham Hotspur objected to another club in London (even though it was Fulham who would be threatened by the arrival of a new club in a new stadium) and the Southern League dutifully did Tottenham’s bidding and rejected the non-existent (as in no players, no fans, and only a half-built ground).

Chelsea then, noting that Woolwich Arsenal were in the Football League, applied for a spot there, and got in, interestingly with Woolwich Arsenal voting and speaking in favour of the new club.

So Chelsea was formed and elected to the league thanks to the forward thinking vision of one club and the backward looks of another.

So to today.  We might expect to see

Szczesny;

Sagna, Koscielny, Vermaeln, Gibbs;

Diaby, Cazorla

Wilshere

Oxlade-Chamberlain, Walcott, Podolski

Arteta and Rosicky still have calf problems, Gervinho is in Africa, and  Fabianski is ready to start full training on Monday.  The ref is Martin Atkinson.

As for the other team, Terry could start, Cole might fire an air rifle, Rafael Benitez wants to manage Real Madrid, John Obi Mikel and Victor Moses are in Africa.

We looked at Chelsea’s home record yesterday, noting how home fans turning against a team can make life very difficult.  Since Roberto Di Matteo went, Chelsea have won once at home.  As for past results at Stamford B. they are 25 wins for us 25 wins for them and 25 draws.  But our current form shows WWWW in the last four games.

Sitting and getting cold we could have any of these:

Mannone, Martínez, Giroud, Jenkinson, Yennaris, Mert, Gnabry, Squillaci, André Santos, Arshavin, Ramsey, Coquelin,

I thought Coquelin did very well mid-week, so we could well see him come on at some stage.

And that’s about that I guess.  With the road out of my village just about impassable, I’m stuck at home with Sky.  Good luck to those who actually have made it to the ground.

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244 Replies to “Chelsea v Arsenal and how Arsenal helped Chelsea overcome Tottenham and enter the League.”

  1. Thanks Billy,we need to take these points but if it comes to sharing them why not, but we can not afford to lose all the three.For a while we have been in a good environment and i hope we stay like that for a while as the polluters are sound asleep. Lets go Gunners

  2. News from Talkshite that Ox and Pod are both not in squad. Illness I think. Terry and Ba not starting for Chelski.

  4. Predict Ba will come on and score. We need three points. Got to beat one of the big three this season.

  14. Need to see the replay again but thought there was no contact on Ramirez from Chez. Need to see it again I said.

  18. Utter rubbish. And Wenger believes this squad is good enough. He didn’t qualify that though by saying exactly what they were good enough for.

  20. First goal Ramirez plants his studs on Coquelin and not foul given.
    Second goal Ramirez slips and falls on Szczesny who just spread himself

    But for some the ref will never play a part of course.

    2 errors from the ref and two goals for chelsea. Of course it then gets a bit easy for one team and a mountain to climb for the other team.

  22. Poor, but they were certainly given a helping hand at the start, that goal should not have stood. We just had to get Atkinson at Stamford Bridge – seem to remember SAF himself implying a bit of bias there! That aside We seem very slow out of the blocks these days. I do look at some of these performances and wonder if we give ourselves enough leeway to rotate when the games come thick and fast. Wenger says 2 players per position is enough, where some clubs opt for 3 or 4. Some of them look knackered, Diaby understandable, and Santi looks like he could do with a break, but we have no replacement for him.
    We need a much improved second half.

  23. @Walter just admit it, we look inferior and FFS stop blaming refs. This team is really average. Still we might do a Southampton.

  24. Yeah Rupert lets bring in Adams.
    He would bring us success like at all the teams he managed before.

  26. We seem to get Atkinson against Chelsea, Dean against the Spuds and Webb against Utd. Hmmm……

  27. F**cking dive! From a player who may have not been on the pitch after a horrible stamp on our player. We get robbed, again!

  28. Our bench isn’t blessed either, this season really does have it for us. I think today we’ve learned the refs hates our guts and doing everything to ensure a failure.

  29. Rupert you are such a bore off I sometimes wonder if you are not a spurs fan in disguise.
    Even the knobs at Sky say that referee got both decisions wrong yet you can’t see it.
    Suppose you are one of the knobs who like arsenal to lose so it proves your agenda .
    Why don’t you go to a site where people might appreciate you like le grove or Dr Mr levy ,your
    Constant moaning and bile shouldn’t be on this site.

  31. I think its official now, Rupert is a troll. Are there any policies to ban trolls? If not can we come up with one please, can’t take much more of this.

  33. I’ve just realized that reading the blog comments on the game is way more exciting than watching the actual match.

    Will Rupert Cook appear?
    Will Walter throw some ice water on proceedings?
    Will Shard take the conversation to the next level?
    and so on…

  34. Atkinson the ref awarding ghost goals to Chelsea against the spuds in the semi final last season in his eager to help them.
    Atkinson, the ref even daring to upset SAF when MU play Chelsea in 2 consecutive seasons. Making them lose on both occasions.

  35. Just hope Wenger reacts against those two decisions as Fergie would, yes, he will get called a French whinger or whatever but after those decisions, so what! What next – red card for Jack?

  36. So the ref got the decisions wrong according to everyone, even the media you all despise. But I’m afraid it’s not the ref’s fault Arsenal are playing poorly.

  37. Two dangerous tackles in the first seconds of the second half but is there a yellow against Chelsea ? No, not even a word

  40. If people could personalize the comments more then I think the spectacle itself would be dead.

    Had a shit week, run out of milk and can’t get down to the shops, the cat has puked on the rug, and Ramires and Atkinson seem very pally

  41. @ Al and Mick, etc. don’t take your frustrations with Arsenal out on me. Aim your ire at the right target.

  42. Rupert, did you ever see a team playing poorly but still end up winning? Well it does exist you know.
    Playing poor or good gives you no points. Wrong given goals do

  47. Unbelievable – Ramires – can see someone like Jack reacting, and you know what will happen then.

  48. Walter – that’s what championship teams do… not this Arsenal side. We never seem to play badly and win any more. When we play badly we usually get royally dicked!

  52. Chelsea steal 10 meter at a throw. Ref blows his whistle tells him to go back. Chelsea players takes the throw where he stands and the ref…. does nothing. Poor

  53. @Walter, I have indeed. Us, quite a few times but bit difficult when you’re 2-0 down and are being outplayed.

  55. C’mon Arsenal!!! Lets sort out this mess! Go on Walcott…. GOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

  57. Are you still watching rupert? I think we played Chelsea off the pitch so far in the second half.

    But of course the goals given by the ref are still there

  60. Now we need to get on the front foot and put them under some pressure…. squeaky bum time for the blues

  64. Atkinson now completely helping them out again. Each Arsenal contact is a foul, Chelsea make no fouls.

  66. Ref blows any time a Chelsea player goes over, it’s not just Chelsea we’re up against today

  67. Rupert,
    Try this for a micro-sequence within 1 minute:
    Our Theo scores.
    Your (non factor) ref yellow cards Sagna on nothing.
    Your (non factor) ref gives no card for bringing down Theo.

  72. Walter, you need to drop the ref thing. It’s part of football and doesn’t justify why we played so poorly in the first 45.

  73. @bob, cause and effect is a lot deeper than the simple understanding you have of it. I’ve already argued this before and am not going to waste time on it again.

  74. @Alan, well said. Now we’re improving but why we have to be so slow out of the blocks is worrying.

  76. @Walter, no because you have no idea what would have transpired. It doesn’t work like that as you well know. If it had been 0-0 at ht we might have played as poorly as we did in the first half.

  78. May I remind some that the first chance of the game was for Arsenal. In fact we played rather well till the first ref mistake/goal for Chelsea

  79. @Kampala Gun,just because Adams wasn’t a great coach doesn’t mean his opinion is worthless. Certainly worth more than yours or mine so stfu idiot.

  80. Another excuse from Rupert.why can’t you get it in your thick skull that arsenal were cheated by the referee for both goals.
    What is do hard to understand about that ????

  82. Refshite in action:
    There’s a head injury to Wilshere and play goes on because Chelsea’s in possession. Then we get back possession on that same head injury stops our forward play.

  85. And sorry, but (on the business side):
    why do they have Demba Ba to bring on and we do not have him (needing a clinical striker just now). Was he out of reach?

  86. Alan,
    Why should the players be slaughtered for going down to two dubious goals? Ok, suppose they were better in first, we are better in the second, how does that make them better than us overall?

  87. No Kampala think he should go for the top job with the referees as he thinks they aren’t bias against Arsenal so he would be really suitable

  91. Al – when have I slaughtered the players or claimed Chelski are better than us. I’ve said neither of those things. I said we played poorly in the first half and that Sagna has looked poor again – hardly slaughtering them is it?

  92. @Kampala Gun, I suggest you actually develop an argument or two to back up your imbecilic ramblings.

    @Highamsparkgunner, nothing. But that’s no excuse for the poor first half display.

  95. How the hell can Ramires be man of the match c@@t of the match more like.
    But then again that prick Niall Quinn picked it

  102. @Dan, if totts lose tonight & we win against west ham, there will be only 3 points between us & fourth spot.

  103. Blame the refs all you like but this team is not good enough. The best reaction from Wenger would be to go out and spend that 35 million Gazidis says he’s got.

  104. I cant believe people are blaming the ref for thw ahocling firar half display.another loss, liverpool coming up right behind the arse….thats what you get whn u try and balance the fuckin books

  105. Giroud puts in massive effort but he is not clinical. We “passed” on Ba (humbug) because we already had one of him in Giroud (right, FunGunner?) Anyway, thrilling second half on our part, but digging the holes in the first half is becoming chronic.

  107. Rupert,
    do you mean we have to buy the refs with that money? 35M is a bit much. I think you should get the whole PGMOL for that money but still. I rather would want us to win fair and not by cheating too much you know

  109. Who’s this guy interviewing Mata & ramirez, doesn’t even ask about the penalty incident.

  110. I note that Ramires was man of the match – the same Ramires that fouled Coquelin in the build up to the first goal, back elbowed Wilshere and possibly dived for the second goal – justice?

    Our team fought to the last whistle and had Chel$ki on the rack – I am proud of the way they fought – and I resent scum like Rupert running the team down at every opportunity. If you can do better Rupert – get out there and perform – otherwise shut thre f*** up!

  111. Hi Walter I saw the foul on Verm not dissimilar to Kos last week but nothing mentioned on sky.
    Would also like to know how many fouls by cole before he got carded.

  112. Interesting how again its all the refs fault. In truth there should have been a penalty to Chelsea in the first minute. The foul by Ramierz fair enough should have been given. The penalty is one that could go ever way but once given the keeper should have gone.
    Arsenal were ripped to pieces in the first half the two full backs being so far forward invites teams on.
    Chec had a couple of bread and butter saves to make but in truth Arsenal dont have a cutting edge and it shows.

  113. Frustrating match to watch. I can take losing to another team, but losing to a ref is impossible to accept. Too many incidents, great and small, incorrectly judged by the ref and time and time again Chelsea benefited.

    As for the teams, I think Arsenal played well, in particular later on in the first half and in the second half. With a fair ref we most like would have won the game.

  114. That must be a dozen games this season alone where we only start playing when we’ve been abysmal in the first 45 minutes. Against certain teams you might get away with that still being 0-0 or only a goal down but roll up at Stamford Bridge and OT playing like that and you’re deadNo doubt Lord Wenger will bark on about showing great spirit in the second half – whatever.We have a mixture of players who are either not good enough or can only be arsed when the game is up. What I will say for once is fair play to Aaron Ramsey – at least he looked fucking bothered when he came on. The truth is that the game was similar to last season – the key difference was Van Rapist rather than Le Chapman…..and before his fan club get all excited, I’m not directly comparing the two. If we’d signed Ba, Huntelaar or a number of PL standard strikers they would have buried that chance when the game was 0-0. Fine margins. One player will make all the difference between 4th and 7th. I am completely convinced that Spuds, Everton and Liverpool will all finish above us because the difference is that they have fellas that don’t miss chances like that. Defoe, Jelavic or Suarez would have buried that. Instead Luc Skylooker from Montpellier pulls it wide when the goal was at his mercy.

  115. Highmansparkgunner,
    committed fouls or punished fouls? There was a big difference today

  116. Walter, we’re all kept in the dark, but to my lights there’s more than the 35M that Mr. Gazidis admits to. There’s the massive Television deal yet to come in June and it never gets mentioned. It will cost AFC for a true difference-maker in this window and that is a major divide to cross. It’s both the Refshite and the X-factor that is preventing a major splash when it is needed, and humor about it won’t dilute the problem (now grown to 24 points from the top and let’s see how many from 4th place now).

  117. Mike T,
    first of all Ramirez just slipped but then made sure he fell on Szczesny.
    Ramirez dribbled away from goal so a yellow card would have been the correct card. Of course in this case as there was no foul it should have been no card

  118. p.s. and passing on Demba Ba because we have Giroud there is another blunder. There’d be too much quality depth there at striker? Are you kidding?

  119. As for the penalty “earned” by Ramires, have a good look at the movement of his right leg. He completely stretches it all the way to the left across his body so he can make contact with Szczesny whose leg is pretty much motionless at the moment of contact. Yes, there is contact, but contact does not necessarily mean there is a foul.

  120. It seems for us to win an effort of 100% alone isn’t going to be enough, must be soul draining for the players and I sympathize.

    Sky let ramirez off lightly, that was a dive all day long and should have been put under more scrutiny. I detest suarez but feel had it been him we would be hearing more about this. Why are there so many inconsistencies in the media, refs, FA,etc.

  121. Walter

    As I said could have gone either way but sorry once it was given as a penalty a red card was the correct card . Could be argued Atkinson handed Arsenal a massive advantage
    But how about the penalty that should have been given in the first minute?

  122. Yes, saw the foul on TV that would’ve been a certain penalty in dean’s book had it been committed by one of our players. Did I mention the AAA too being in the inconsistent bracket? I would expect them to be on here blasting the ref for not awarding a penalty and a sending off for that foul on TV, just like they blasted Kos for being stupid and praised dean. Or is that criticism only warranted if its us getting penalized?

  123. The one question now is how do we qualify for 4th place. Forget Gazidis and PHW’s saying it is affordable because there is an emergency fund – their Plan B. No, the fans need a Plan B on the pitch and that so-called emergency fund needs to be tapped now. Then again, with 4th place at risk, would a high level player rush to our side? Then again, can the top 3 actually sign everyone who would make a difference for us? I don’t think so. It’s past high time to risk by spending; not risk by not spending.

  124. We played very poorly in the first half without doubt. Apart from the 2 goals gifted by the ref (even Neville and Redknappsaid that), however, our goal was not seriously threatened.

    In second half we were dominant, but even then it was clear we were up against 12 men, with a large number of small decisions against us, eg advantage or not / offside or not / foul or not. On at least one occasion Giroud was grabbed and held in penalty area, ie the sort of incident that is a penalty and red card against Arsenal.

    No doubt that yet again the refereeing determined the result.

  125. Mike T,
    do you mean the incident when Diaby played the ball forward with his left leg?

  127. Walter not sure it was Diaby but where the player wrapped both arms around Oscar in the box.

  128. Mike T,
    And you can always try to convince me why a red card should have been given.

  129. watching us toil under stamford bridges wintery grey skies,hopelessly striving for an equaliser with little or no quality on the pitch and being completely fucked over in the first half by the worst chelsea team in recent years i cant help but feel that another little peice of Arsenal died today,the fire is gradually being extinguished,nobody fears us anymore,we are deadwood heading into oblivion.the howe and neil days are well and truly back with us,and i cant quite believe it,its been 30 years since ive felt like this,watching us haplessly flapping about in the mud being turned over by mediocre competition has become the norm.THOSE PLAYERS ARENT FIT TO WEAR THE RED AND WHITE.WE ARE A FUCKING JOKE,BELEIVE IT!! 

  130. Also need to send the best vibes and prayers out to the football gods that Diaby – thrice used in one week after being out so long – hasn’t already picked up a knock (in training this week). Do you think that having had quality depth in rotation at midfield would have exposed him to this amount of stress? Song should not have been allowed to leave or like-for-like should have been acquired. But the bean counters rule and we get to jollify about a zero net transfer window and their christmas bonuses. If we had quality depth in the midfield – and yes, Ramsey cares and is well worth keeping, but is a sheer drop in quality there – then Diaby won’t have been subject to this scary gamble. My fingers and toes are crossed that the lad’s awright. But, again, this window needs to see a post-Song DM purchased, as well as the clinical striker. One hopes we haven’t dug too deep a hole to attract a willing difference-maker.

  131. @ Mike T
    As you are so keen to see penalties awarded for the opposition you will have wanted at least 2 for Arsenal when Chelsea arms were round Arsenal players at a couple (at least) of our corners. But of course to mention those would not suit your very obvious agenda. You and Rupert should start your own blog.

  132. Roger Federer said he watched the first 5 minutes of the Lance Armstrong interview and stopped because he knew what was coming, and that it made him feel very sad for ALL sports.

    Sadly that is the world’s top professional, and surely (hopefully) an honest one, giving a damning verdict on professional sport these days.

    It saddens me that sport is so corrupt, and it pains me that so many people invest so much energy in it, when all the while the future is being pissed up against the wall by politicians.

    Sorry to sound sanctimonious, but football is just a medium sized cog in a huge wheel.

  133. Indeed I will. As they say football is all about opinions.

    The reality however is had you had RVP playing today the score would in all probability been much akin to last seasons.

    Even for the most ardent Arsenal supporter surely there must be concern as to CL qualification for isnt that AW suggests consitutes a good season?

    Although still a lot of games to go the gap between Arsenal and 33rd place is growing and between fourth will be all about can Spurs keep their run going.

    Chelsea were the better team in the first half and that was where the game was won. Its all very well saying how well things went in the 2nd half but sureley the bigger point of discussion should be why didnt Arsenal turn up in the first half!

  135. Nannu,
    do you know how much money that worst Chelsea team has cost? Do you know how much money their team cost just this summer.
    Do you know how much money the Russian billionaire has spent on that team?

    Pay a little respect to spending money

  137. Mike T,
    the penalty given on Ramirez was it a foul?

    The studs on the foot of Ramirez on Coquelin was it a foul?

  138. Walter

    Questionable indeed but as I say once the ref gave it a red card should have followed
    Yes before the first goal there was a foul on Coquelin

  140. Arteta,Rosicky,The ox and Poldolski out and the bench was pathetically weak.Agree with Bob,signings MUST be made.And RVP has just scored,what joy(bangs head against table in frustration)

  141. not accepted when the referee.blow your match away, that people.as usual come out here and start talking s*** about the team, 2 goals ref mistake, cole should have yhought twice before that foul on sagna ( which was a great threat btw) if he already had a well deserved yellow 3 times b4, AAA want to protest, well start with pgmol 1st, not acceptable.and no matter who Wenger buys, we wont win until the ref stop tbe double standards when we play….

  142. I’m sorry but if you spotted the dive by Ramires in real time and on FIRST viewing with NO REPLAY you must have super eyesight as i thought, until G Nev pointed it out, that it was a clear pen and the GK lucky not to get sent off.I was wrong,but if i had been the ref i would have given a pen.Instead of accusing refs of corruption(whose paying them NOW,as we are so far behind the usual suspect of Fergie that we are not even on his radar) why don’t you advocate video technology as i do?

  143. yassin,
    Please, mate. It’s not one or the other. BOTH buying right (and right now) AND protesting the run-amok Refshite are necessary. Reasserting ourselves as a real force is a two-front campaign. Both count.

  144. True Yassin. In 08 we were well primed for the title but we know what happened. I think this time they want to ensure we don’t qualify for the champions league, coz surely we don’t pose a threat to united but they still rob us; 2 games 1 red & 2 penalties against us, one very debatable and another not even a pen.

  145. well @Linz
    1st goal no foul
    2nd goal, we isually dont get penalties when we deserve, when someone us tackled from up front his upper body goes down 1st, plus tjat is still a mistake nd diving shall be stopped
    giroud header, foul by ivanovic, penalty
    cole, about 3 to 4 yellow cards, one given, even more from ramirez and still nothing
    last atyack by arsenal the chelsea player held gibbs and went up for the ball, nothing given in pen.area
    less than 1 min later giroud do same foul straight given fir chelsea.

    Now do.u need super eye sight for this

  146. Mike T,
    why should he give a red card to Szczesny?
    According to the rules and instructions and not “because I say so”

  147. @ Bob am not saying we must not buy, i am saying even if we did, we still wont win
    from reading on other sites, giroud is the next ramsey to be destroyed.

    btw @linz
    atkinson is a chelsea fan and everyone on facebook nd twitter knows that

  148. Linz, I had seen that it was probably a dive even before the replays, and I don’t have super eyesight. The body movement wasn’t natural, the way he fell was not consistent with the way his body was moving. It was kind of similar to the ashley young dives, where a gentle touch(not even a shirt tug), would ‘send’ him leaping into air & crashing to the ground as if shot.

  149. Walter

    As I say once the pealty was given the keeper should have gone.

    The rules say a sending off is appropriate when
    denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick
    Note there is no mention about being the last man or players covering

  150. funny parr is that torres dived before ramirez, as if Benitez told his players to dive cause he knows we are always on the bad side of referimg mistskes, or shall I say deliberate mistakes

  151. Mike T,

    this is the sentence : “moving towards the player’s goal ”

    Ramirez pushed the ball backwards.

    Look at it again

  152. @ mikeT
    yes saying he thought it was a foul by sczesney
    1st, he was not last defender, the defence.could interfere.
    2nd he wasnt going to the goal, he was not facing it so by the rules no redcard
    3rd he should be controllung the ball, which he was, but that shows u that the kosienly red was not red cause dzeko was not controlling the ball

  153. A|,
    Appears that in on-the-pitch terms, Mr. Gazidis having been elevated to the FA ranks does not cut it with the PGMOL mob. And only a few weeks ago, people were saying what a better time of it we’ve been having from the referees. So perhaps the CL position has now become a political football and the fix is in (perhaps not so much to keep us out as to usher in a more “worthy” occupant). The position is worth 35M by all accounts, right? Not exactly chump change in this economy.

  154. Mike T
    That penalty was a mistake, so why go on about what color card should’ve been shown. As it stands that yellow is incorrect. Or is your argument being that chelsea should’ve gained from an incorrect decision? Well, they did from the goal so let’s leave it at that.

    I hope Cocquelin’s injury isn’t too bad, I thought he really stood out for us even though he took a few kicks.

  155. Okay West-ham,Liverpool,Stoke we need all the 9 points but with Giroud missing sitters and General Artea AWOL we are in a lot of problems,we need to settle down quick.

  156. kampala gun,
    so, do we spend in the transfer window or just “settle down” quick as we are?

  157. Wenger need to get a forward just to tkae off the.pressure on Giroud, they are starting to Ramsey him….
    Every fan is always biased towards his yeam except the AAA is always biased against their team

  158. yassin,
    do you think, then, that there is an active “fix” going on for the 4th place (35M) payoff? I do.

  159. Ok l

    Lets deal with the points being made

    Walter. The ball was going backwards but the player wasnt. The reason the rule doesnt mention the ball is that a player can be fouled even though he isnt doesnt have control of the ball

    Al

    I agree that the penalty was quesionable but once it was given then ,in my opinion, a red card should have followed.

    Yassin

    1)The rule about being the last defender was changed a while ago so quite simply even if there were 8 defenders between the attacker and the goal if an obvious goal scoring opportunity exists then its a seding off
    2) He was going toward goal. I agree not running straight on but none the less he was
    3)See my comment to walter above

  160. @bob i think we need a striker to take off Giroud the pressure as yassin says but on top of that we need a striker who we can use in all the tournaments we are participating in who is not cup tied here and there and to get a good striker is not easy but for sure we need one.Probably Arsene have got one and he is going to surprise us . How soon GOD knows but we need one now.

  161. @mikeT
    if what u say about the first rule was right, and from ur point of view for the second, yes it should have been a red, but then that leads to why didnt atkinson give it, maybe because he thought it was not a penalty

    @Bob
    Arsenal are going to be the best team in the world, but not now, its the future Wenger want to leave the team at and.maybe retire then (hope he.wont but his age), Arsenal.are nearing a commercial funds which well.make a threat specially when ffp is in
    2nd being in CL.not only make.Arsenal lose that 35 million, but lose all.the commercial deals funds we expect them.to get, CL is the reason why we got the emirates last deal in the first place…
    so yes agree there is a ploy ir something

  162. Yassin

    I would hate to try and second guess any ref but what you say wouldnt suprise me at all but if thats right then football stands no chance.

    pus have just equalised and thats another point ahead of yourselves. The team that played for you today did well in the second half but dont let that mask how poor you were in the first half when the real business was done.

  164. So, that leaves us with 7 points deficit to cover, with a game in hand and a +3 goal difference better than them. In our remaining fixtures, there can’t be any excuses for dropping a single point except the Man U game for if you want to finish fourth, you must beat the teams below you.
    So, let’s take a brief look at how can we achieve this. Can we do it our current squad, to be honest, it looks like a no to me. We need a striker to take off the pressure from Giroud & need a backup DM. This isn’t anything new but has been repeated time and time again by the likes of Bob and others.

    @ Bob,
    do you think, then, that there is an active “fix” going on for the 4th place (35M) payoff? I do
    Fix or no fix, we can’t afford to lose the fourth spot. Well, for an answer, yes I do.

    I will put down the reason for us turning after 45 minutes against the top teams to be the lack of confidence among the squad. Unfortunately, it is happening too much in crunch matches.
    And I will quote Bob to end this comment:“It’s the time to take a risk by spending, not by not spending.”

  165. Yes, there’s a fix to knock us out of the top 4. Other teams like Chelsea usually only get robbed by refs when they play manure, but with us it seems its against everybody. Fix for sure

  166. Maybe the ref falling for the dive is payback for the Cazorla dive against West Brom which ,as i recall the reaction on here was “about time we got a decision” Yassin,what is said on twitter is a load of bollocks;According to twitter we are signing Cavani and Villa,Wengers going to PSG and Mourinho is coming to Arsenal.God,why are Arsenal such victims? If you are not getting the rub of the green,DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT,don’t just whinge.Poor old Martin Atkinson is about the least likely corrupt official i have ever seen;he made a mistake,shit happens.The bottom line is this is the worse Arsenal squad in over 20 yrs.Whose fault is that?The Referees? Or the management who put profit above trophies, arrogantly assuming we will always be top 4?

  167. You can’t beat the best teams in the EPL when you waste positions. If we don’t get production or any contribution from an entire position we are letting our foot off of the throat of the opposition.

    Cazorla on the wing was a good idea, I thought it would work too, but it just hasn’t worked out and that’s unlucky for Wenger. Podolski is just as ineffective on the wing. Yes, he has goals, but he doesn’t affect the game as a winger. He gets dirty goals in the box, that’s not what we need in our system. Watch Lennon and Bale. Watch Valencia and Nani. Watch Sterling. These players may not score too often (except Bale), but they are always putting pressure and getting in behind the full backs, forcing either a defensive mid or centre back to cover and creating space for the easy pass and shot on goal.

    Mertesacker getting left in the dust on every through ball is also getting a bit old. I officially miss Djourou, who has a bit of an unfair reputation. He just has one of those faces where if something goes wrong it’s easy to pile on him, but lets be honest Vermaelen has had plenty of shockers too, but because he looks steely no one seems to remember them.

    That’s two positions that for 90+ minutes we had to compensate for. Sagna can’t go forward at all when Mertesacker is playing RCB and Giroud can’t get any room in the box because the left winger can’t draw out the right centre back or defensive midfielder. To me, left wing is our most pressing concern. There is just no one who can play that position well for us.

  168. WalterBroeckx
    January 20, 2013 at 4:30 pm
    Rupert,
    do you mean we have to buy the refs with that money? 35M is a bit much. I think you should get the whole PGMOL for that money but still. I rather would want us to win fair and not by cheating too much you know

    ———————————————————-
    Walter i thought it was against the policy of this site not to post anything that can’t be proved so as to avoid a libel suit or does that theory only work when Wenger is accused?

  169. The difference is confidence if giroud scores first I am sure we would have won the game. They got a bit of luck with the foul on coqelin and the rest is history coq for me was. Fantastic. Diaby went missing jack was great sagna mind elsewhere bfg brilliant santi is everyone’s darling and I agree when he is on his game he is a class act. But too many days when he is not at the races we need a world class striker like higuain or benzema. And Ericsson or goetze 60 million for two players and we would be ready to challange anybody

  170. Ok, some more on “whether” we were jobbed or not:
    From the Guardian, who usually won’t give AW the time of day, we get this: “Wenger had justifiable complaints over both goals, with Ramires’s foul on Francis Coquelin going unnoticed ahead of Juan Mata’s opener and the Brazilian tumbling eagerly over Wojciech Szczesny’s challenge to earn a penalty moments later. “The referee gave a lot of free-kicks and some for much less than the Coquelin one,” he said.”

    And from goal.com/quoting Sky, they report this from (perpetrator) Ramires himself: “Yeah, it was a foul,” he told Sky Sports. “[But] the win has much importance for us. In the last three games we had one win, one loss and a draw so it was important for us to win today.”
    Nuff said?

  171. So, if most people, all neutrals, and the perpetrator Ramires himself say/s that it was a penalty, how can there be no recourse to appeal – no penalty to be leveled against the referee – no nothing? Of course the answer is because, well, ahhhh, mmmmm, duuuuhhhh….

  172. nothing much to say about arsenal performance. we have only won one match against last year’s top 4. we are short on our squad after loaning djourou & chamack. we are 7 pts adrift of the coveted 4th place. besides there are 5 teams in contention for the last CL place. we had RvP to rescue us last year but none this year. our players lack inspiration.
    I don’t feel positive on the transfer front as well as we are approaching the last week before the transfer deadline. even if we sign a player, he certainly will take some time to assimilate and provide a meaningful impact.
    its too early to write-off arsenal for CL spot next year. yet we have to take some strides in order to catch up. first we need to lower the gap spu*s are enjoying. for this to happen we need to win against all the teams below and around us.

  173. I apologies for not reading this article or comments,

    This comment is directed solely at Mr Broeckx or other qualified referees.

    It would appear to me yet again that Arsenal have to start putting in perfect performances to nullify the referee, is this even possible? Do we have the quality to overcome shoddy or biased officiating? And at what cost to us, can we maintain perfection time and again.

    Can a team perform to such a high standard that it will render a referee and his assistants null and void for huge sections of time during a match.

  174. Walter,
    So the ref got two decisions right today in blowing his whistle for the start of each half. Apart from that he gave everything to Chelsea, at least that was what I saw. Ramirez should have been booked first for the foul on Coq which led to the first goal, for a second time for the dive over Szcz which led to their second goal and a third time for the elbow into the face of one of our players (sorry cant remember which). Based on the refereeing rules from last Weekend we should have had two penalties at least for bear hugs on our attackers in the penalty area each of which should also have been regarded as red card offences. They could have ended up with eight players on the pitch given consistency of refereeing. Why didn’t this happen? Oh yes the unwritten sub clause 8b to every rule in the book – unless an Arsenal player is concerned!
    I’m afraid that we are not going to get fourth place this year. We are fighting too many referees! I wouldn’t blame Wenger if he takes the money on offer from PSG and leaves at the end of the season, the man must be so frustrated at the injustices meeted out to our team on a weekly basis.

  175. Giroud needs to get his act together, too many floppy fucking misses and looking messy.

    Arsenal 1st half performance was poor but that cunt ref did his best to fuck us over, 2nd half we raised our game but subs were poor highlighting Arshavin.

    Wenger needs to get real, the squad is poor we need reinforcements and claiming these boys are as good as the invicibles does not automatically mean they are. If we have money then it’s no good sitting in the bank, we need something right now, no good talking about it.

  176. I am upset and disappointed as anyone when we lose. I recognise that, however talented, our players are human and can make mistakes and suffer a loss of confidence. I can also believe the evidence of my own eyes over several seasons in recognising that adverse referee decisions do not “even themselves out” and I know a pattern when I see it.

    However, I do not feel compelled to condemn the manager, nor to blame the players for not being perfect 100% of the time, nor to compare our team unfavourably with everyone else. Chelsea fans did not get on Ba’s back when he failed to score in an open goal.

  177. Adam & UA loyalists

    I was at the game today & none of our fans felt hard done by with their penalty, so I suppose it any over exaggeration by Ramires may have been missed by Atkinson.

    I certainly thought at the time there was a foul on Le Coq.

    It’s all very well coming up with nonsense that we have to play against the ref, but none of you have mentioned that Atkinson could have given a penalty against ‘he’s like a new signing’ Dimwit Diaby in the first 45 seconds when he tried copying Koscielny hauling down one of their players in the box.

    Face facts, we are a team with a past his sell by date manager going places. Out the top four.

  180. All this could have been resolved with on the spot reviews. It would have taken as long as 30 seconds to resolve those incidents.

  181. Typical head in the sand mentality. When Arsenal loses, its the Ref, the money bags, the ‘AAA’ but when we win Wenger is a genius.
    Wenger is past it and the sooner most people realise this especially Wenger himself, the better for Arsenal Football Club

  182. Eurosport has the match stats, which demonstrate that Chelsea were hardly the better team. Here’s a few figures:

    CHE – ARS:
    Posession: 50.2% – 49.8%
    Duels won: 53.1% – 46.9%
    Aerial Duels Won: 48.6% – 51.4%
    Interceptions: 16 – 24
    Total passes: 415 – 395
    Passing accuracy: 78.8% – 81.3%
    Shot accuracy: 58.3% – 60%

    The full stats are available here:

    http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/premier-league/2012-2013/chelsea-arsenal-515716.html

    Maybe we were not entitled to a win, but a draw seems a much more equitable result.

    And btw, these stats are not taking into account the ref’s bias;)

  183. @Florian,ah yes stats, they help soothe the savage breast. Unfortunately the only stat that matters is the one involving goals scored.

    But I agree we probably deserved a draw.

    Anyway we lost and we surely need to sign some players now though we could do as Walter suggests and spend the 35 million on bribing officials.

  184. how rude is it for someone to come here and say we deserved.tje loss, or that the team is not good emough, bla bla bla,.. if u cant see what the ref has done then u r one of those:
    either blind, or didnt see the game, or. u r really an AAA and all u care about is moaning
    we need to stregnthem yes, but the team is not that bad, so stop.for once blaming the team amd start suppirting by blaming the ref,pgmol, and the FA for doing nothing about it.

  185. “the team is not that bad”? Can you quantify that for us Yassin? No, Arsenal are not in the relegation zone so we’re not THAT bad, but we are not in the top four at the moment so we are THAT bad.

  186. The first half performance was a fucking disgrace.Up there with the Utd Norwich and Southampton.Yes we dominated possession in the 2nd half who fucking cares.How many real saves did Cech make in the last 30 minutes You cant give teams a 2 goal startChelsea were on the ropes at home having lost to QPR and drawn having throw away a 2 goal lead v Saints yet we turned up in the first half with no passion no fight no guts.How many times was Jack shouting at his team mates to close Chelsea down.As for the bench it doesnt get any worse.When you are bring in Ramsey and Arshavin what chance have we gotTo see some blame the ref is just deflecting the blame from the manager.We deserved nothing after that 1st half performance

  187. yassin:

    Whats is rude stating the obvious ? !

    Did you see the ref not book or give a penalty against that idiot Diaby in the 1st minute, or do you have selective memory syndrome.

    I actual wonder about some fans, it’s like they are part of a mad religious cult and being totally subservient never to question their sociopathic leader.

  188. @Yassin

    Good comments. Its strange the way the AAA scum insist on coming onto this site to run down the team but can’t see anything wrong with the ref – yet again.

  189. @DG, You label me without discussion, I learn more about you all the time. It looks as if Ramires slipped, but can forgive the ref for that. As stated above TV replays would solve these issues and its about time they separated the amateur and professional game with regards to instant replays. Yes Chelsea were on top throughout the first half, they found it easy to find one another. Our movement or lack of it was shocking and I class that as amateurishness to say the least. So many times I have witnessed our players surrounded and out-numbered due to a lack of options from team mates. Even the pace of our passing allowed the opposition to close us down too quickly.

    Now that I have given you a bit of info, How would you address these issues? I’m waiting.

  190. You can always tell at the moment when Arsenal has had a run of poor results

    The stories about Wegner to PSG always appear when Arsenal are poor, if you didn’t know any better you would think Arsene’s agent planted them.

  191. You can always tell at the moment when Arsenal has had a run of poor results

    All the AAA pricks take over the site.

  192. I clicked on a match review of the swansea game and read the comments. mostly it was positive. many praised the effort shown by jack and how he perceived himself as a leader. there were 22 comments in total.
    here I am reading a match PREVIEW before the chelsea game and mostly its negative. this is not a surprising thing. the surprise is how some of the so-called anti-arsenal have crept out from their hiding. these people did sense some opportunity to spew their negativity. now these people hate the term AAA but are liberal in calling arsenal player(s) dimwit, deadwood, un-arsenal, etc.

  193. hi americangooner i was on here whilst match was going on and although the 2 goals were scored in very controversial circumstances , the AAA brigade were out in full completely overlooking the fact that yet again we had been robbed by extremely dodgy/bent refereeing decisions and calling for the managers head.shocking but as a season ticket holder at the emirates something i am used to . it seems they enjoy it more when arsenal lose than if they win.Completely brainless in my opinion.

  194. Doublegooner – Your comment about selective memory would be fine if you included the bear hug at the end that should have been a penalty for Arsenal, but… Selective memory I guess.

  195. Hello,
    According to Sky, goal.com and elsewhere, Ramires has admitted that he committed the foul. It is borderline vicious to act as if this changes nothing in the so-called (but evidence-free) debate about this game. It’s not either the side needs work or the refs are incompetent to destructive. It’s both. And it’s amusing to shocking to watch as the destroyers are in such denial that this referee jobbed us, whilst the perpetrator openly admits he committed the foul that cost us the first goal. Equally, to maintain that we have enough striker power on the evidence at hand today is bollocks; and backed into a corner (that we never should have been backed into), it is high time to spend to meet a glaring need. As for the argument that it takes time for a new striker of quality to really bed in, well, look at Ba’s scoring from his first game on at Chelsea. In fact, look at Chemakh’s amazing run when he first started with us, only to implode as RVP came back and retook the position and the rest of the league caught on to Chamakh’s mode of playing, both of which left him shell-shocked. Aside from what actually happened there, my point is that a new quality striker does not automatically mean there can’t be a boost in either morale and/or immediate goals scored on the pitch.

  196. I don’t deny we need a striker. but the hard thing is to get a striker that suits our style. torres was a prolific striker at pool and Atletico. what happened after joining chelsea despite playing in the PL? despite having the support of drogba, lampard and mata. something in him didn’t click. on the contrary, michu and RvP needed less time to gel with their team mates. isn’t it because the teams the two joined suited their style. its partly down to player quality and partly to the support from their teammates. is theo helping giroud’s cause by his stubbornness to play centre? he sure is given freedom to drift but isn’t mindful of the fact that he’s leaving huge swaths of open greenery on the right side. I think a striker who suits our style and imposes his authority at the centre is a must. whether it happens this jan or coming august is to be seen. but I’m sensing its imminent.

  197. its all very nice to sit and discuss the ref’s decison, or what Remires say or did not say. or the how the world is out to screw us so that we are out the CL etc, etc, etc.
    My question to all of you……we are supposed to have quality players, so where were they in the 1st 45 mins? in bed? how can you play so pooerly and allow a mountain to climb? surely AW and Bouldy uncle need to prepare them better, or if they have, what happend? Back in my playing days, i remember even now, the words of my manager and the senior players in my ears. “The 1st 20 mins of every half is very very important. keep is simple, no fancy footwork or no unnessary risk. !![this was specially meant for our defence and midfield].

  198. Gouresh,

    I think we should have opened the score while you claim we still were in bed. Remember Giroud shooting wide?
    Remember Carzorla forcing a save from Cech?
    If Theo would have timed his runs a bit better or the ball aimed at him being played a bit more accurate we could have well had a few more chances.

    Of course when the ref gives the other team 2 goals it looks a bit different.

    But the players were out there, trying to overcome 12 men. We did that better in the second half I admit. Maybe because at 2-0 in the second half the ref tried to be a bit more fair for Arsenal. Not yet complete there but well it was an improvement compared to the first half.
    And then we were the better team, scored and…the ref went back to helping Chelsea.
    What did your manager say when such a thing happened?

  199. @highamsparkgunner talk about the pricks they are all over when ever we lose and seen no where when we win!!So really what do human-beings want? Mike dean for West-Ham and Dowd for Liverpool

  200. How can a team play so poorly is usually down to a few cumulated factors (even from my experience as a professional in a field that has nothing to do with football), not from one big single cause. There are internal factors (lack of confidence, improper team dynamics, players unavailable through injury, fatigue, etc.) and external factors (biased referees, opponents kicking us off the park from the first moment). I can see 2 points here:

    1. The team can only have control over its internal mechanics. This means working to implement the playing strategy and style, ironing out their imperfections, recovering from injury, getting back into the right frame of mind, and everything else that is humanly possible to get to the required level. I don’t believe for a moment that they spend the days sitting around and playing poker. Whether they need new signing(s), it is a separate debate, as adding a new team member has usually the short-term effect of worsening the team dynamics, as the newcomers are getting integrated into the team. I believe examples like Ba or Michu are exceptions to the rule. For one thing we had Arshavin too. But this is an entirely different thing.

    2. No matter how good they are (and we all know that they are very good, even if some of us are in chronical denial about this statement), the players will never be able to overcome an opponent when the external factors are so much against them. At this level, the difference is made by the number of errors, and, while today (like many other times) there was a noticeable amount of unforced errors, the number of forced errors was imho decissive, as it helped just enough to bend the balance the wrong way.

  201. MIke T, if you are still with us

    So when a player cuts the ball back isn’t he supposed to follow the ball in order to have a chance to score?

    So when Ramirez played the ball away from goal wasn’t he supposed to also run away from goal?

    Mind you I’m not even suggesting that Ramirez dived. I will have another look of course but I really think that because of him cutting the ball back, he slipped on the slippery surface and then when in the air made sure he would make contact with the keeper.

    And just having looked back at it: Ramirez positioned his body to run away from the goal.

  202. Our win rate is 41%. I’m not sure how the squad is good enough with that statistic. If I were working for a company getting 7 million a year I think they’d have every right to sack me.

    Our bizarre manager comes out with conflicting statements every week. One minute we are looking to strengthen, the next the squad is good enough, which I think most of us agree that it isn’t, the results prove that, and then we might strengthen in one or two areas, then we have two or three players for every position and we are not close to signing anyone.

    If we did intend to sign someone I’m sure we must have had targets before the window opened, so maybe we had none, which really beggars belief because who in their right mind believes this team is going to win the CL, never mind any lesser trophy?

  203. I wouldn’t mind the transfer inaction if we had no money but Gazidis says we have 35 million to spend so what the bloody hell are we doing?

  204. Field day for the AAA to come out and play ( but they don’t exists, of cause ?)and make hay – you need a lot of hay to produce bullshit ! Happy crapping !
    Me ? I have a condition called Selective Hearing( reading) , so if I don’t respond to you (and your taunts ),its because my medical condition filters out bullshit and insane comments !

  205. Yes Brickfields they are enjoying it when we lose.

    After all, they are the real “supporters”.

    My contribution to the English language is this new word: suphaters. That is what they are.

  206. Arsenal fans aren’t enjoying it at all. If you think they are then your deluded. If Wenger buys nobody in this window I think he’s lost his way. If he thinks this team is going to deliver anything except further frustration then he’s even more deluded than some on here. We need a DM and a striker seeing as we only have one and he barely functions.

    Oh and did you notice Manu had what looked like a certain penalty not given? Seems they get decisions against them too.

  207. @Brickfields, what are these insane comments my good man? Are you referring to my statistic about our win rate? It’s pretty insane isn’t it and yet we have a good squad.

    All the best Bricky, your comments still make me chuckle.

  208. Don’t forget Rupert, all those openly claiming they want us to lose. Deluded as they are in thinking it will bring change to Arsenal. Change of manager, change of buying players.
    If you hope that we lose in order to bring change, that is what I call being deluded.

    But when we lose they sure look happy to come out and pat themselves on the back. That looks like enjoyment to me

  209. Morning Walter

    I am not sure that Ramiers meant to play the ball the way it went but I take your point

    Interesting you say about slipping because having watched match of the day thats the way it looked to me more than a foul.

    I know that you all feel “cheated” but dare I suggest that many of you Gooners are retreating into an almost everyone is against us mentality when, you need to be more open to where your team is.

    I try not to wind people up on here but I guess being a Chelsea supporter I always will but I thought we would at best get a draw yesterday but even when you scored I didnt see an Arsenal team that had the cutting edge, the desire or indeed quality save two or three of your players the only area where you have players that would be challenging for a place at the very top table are Carzola and Wiltshire.

    The greater of your problems are your back four. Yesterday every time your two full backs became advanced you were wide open on the flanks. In truth we werent able to expose that weakness much in the secons half because of the way your midfield pressed but even then there were a couple of occasions where we were able to pull your two central defenders wide and they were exposed for pace.

    We arent playing well at the moment , I accept that, but the crazy thing is had we beaten Southampton and QPR at home, which we should have,we would be just one point off second.

    Hey as they say time to move on. For us its Swansea which will be interesting but I see that you have West Ham midweek they will cause you all sorts of problems but one thing is for certain you cant afford to drop any points.

    Hey onwards and upwards!

  210. Au contraire Rupert !I don’t ‘engage ‘ nor put down most people or their comments ,unless I either see a funny angle to it or it’s so stupid that I take a sideswipe at it .I’ve occassionally have hit it out of the park or at the very least sixes !
    I , like most am not happy but choose to support the Arsenal
    nonetheless without asigning blame to all and sundry .For now I’ll exit with this quote .
    “I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everbody.” Bill Cosby .

  211. @Walter, no the glee is in proving everyone on here wrong. Mostly directed at the rude comments certain people direct at those who dare to question Wenger. And because despite evidence to the contrary there are still some who think this squad is good. I actually don’t think it’s a bad squad, probably capable of snatching fourth but that isn’t really the point. The fact is that we’ve sunk so low, expectations have been decimated and we can’t even get a few decent players in when we needed them at the beginning of January.

    It doesn’t help when Wenger says we’ve been looking everywhere for replacements that are better than what we’ve got and you look at Giroud, Ramsey, Gervinho, Santos and to a certain extent Sagna based on recent form and you wonder what the hell he’s talking about. And then he comes out with his desire to build the team around Diaby. I mean is the man obsessed with him. I think Diaby is a good player but can you seriously rely on him to see out a season? It worked with RVP but he doesn’t play in such an injury prone position.

    And after that first half performance you really could find more effort from the likes of Bradford. With the exception of Wilshire the team appears to lack pride, passion and guts far too frequently.

    Too many people are in denial. Wenger has certainly earned himself some time with his previous great achievements but if we don’t secure fourth considering the money we have stashed away then someone should be accountable. Personally I’d like to see Gazidis gone but he doesn’t pick the players.

    We should win the next three games if this squad is as good as Wenger believes. If we don’t then fourth maybe a bridge too far. Then will we spend all that money we have put aside or will we have to sell Wilshire because after all that’s what a self-sustaining model is all about? Oh and by the way if we continue along that path, selling the RVPs and replacing them with inferior players we’ll be winning nothing for years. You don’t build a stable team following the crazy model we’ve adopted.

  213. @Brickfields, mine represents all the knock outs I deliver to my detractors on here. I sometimes feel ashamed because it’s so easy to defeat those who argue with me. It helps of course that Arsenal are so calamitous.

  215. I haven’t seen the match yet. Just saw some of the highlights yesterday, and I’ve read the comments. From what I can gather, we had a shocking first half, added to by the ref’s poor decisions. Sadly, both those factors are not unexpected. We do tend to start games too slowly, and the refs…well..

    I can understand people being disappointed. Both at the result, and at least half of the performance. What I don’t understand is why every fucking result which doesn’t go our way, leads to cries of outrage, and how we’re mediocre, and how we’re doomed if Wenger stays, or if Usmanov doesn’t come in..blah blah fuckin blah.. It’s annoying, and this is not what football is supposed to be like.

    I agree that we need to spend, but let’s say we don’t. I’d still wish we can finish top 4, so we get more funds into the club, and then I can hope we can spend in the transfer market again. Why will it ever change? Because there is going to be more money coming in. The TV deals (which won’t give us an edge over English sides, but will in Europe) and our new commercial deals (which will give us an edge over other PL clubs) But those commercial deals don’t start till 2014, although some money has been brought forward to next summer. And the new TV deals likewise, next summer. Can we afford to wait til then to buy, especially if our primary targets are only available then? Tough call. I’m inclined to say no, but either way, I’ll be backing the club to finish in the top 4. We’re good enough to do that, though we’ll need some luck along the way too.

    Rupert,

    When did Gazidis say 35m? Maybe I missed it, but quantifying how much money we have to spend would be a huge change of club policy. My guess is that you pulled that figure out of thin air.

    Also, gleefully jumping on one example of ManU not getting a decision their way, is the sort of behaviour exhibited by ManU’s idiot fans. Like they claimed ATkinson lost them the match against Chelsea, when they benefited equally from some crap refereeing (including a handball goal) What happened after that? Atkinson didnt get a ManU game for 11 months. Likewise with Clattenburg after the 6-1 drubbing by ManCity. Following which he handed ManU the match against Chelsea when he got to do a game for them again.

    No..ManU don’t get ref favours at all. That’s just what jealous fans of other teams say. Rupert, if all fans are so tribal that they just feel that way, then why don’t you? Are you not a fan? Or do all fans not feel that way without cause?

  216. You know what makes me laugh the most? A lot of gunners when diaby was injured kept talking up the guy like his absence was the cause of our demise, using the liverpool match as evidence. It always made me laugh, diaby has had extended runs of playing time at arsenal and frankly he’s had more bad games than good. The matches against man utd wen he scored an own goal, the 4-4 against newcastle, the 0-1 loss to chelsea in 2007 spring to mind. What is worse is when I hear we want to play him in the viera role, I chuckle. Diaby is one of the most indisciplined players I’ve seen. I’ve never seen a player who’s tried to dribble inside the 18yard box when his team is under pressure, as many times as diaby, and he failed to make a succesful dribble most of those times, yet will do it again and again. I pray he’s fit and plays, so he won’t be used as an excuse for the poverty of the squad. If rooney is injured man utd can attribute poor form to his absence, but certainly not so if it were anderson

  217. Fascinating insight into your thought process rupert cook, with your post at 9.54.. Not only do you assume your victory(which makes the assumption that this is a contest), you enjoy putting other people down more than Arsenal winning. And now you’ll argue you didn’t say that, but yes, you did. I can also say something without saying it. I can say I don’t think you are a depressive sewer rat, and that I totally disagree with bjtgooner when he says that. I’m done feeding the troll. Spreading lies, half truths, and revelling in spreading negativity, behind a veneer of civility. I can deal with the first bits because that is what trolls do. But the last bit is what is so annoying about you. You are hypocritical. Always being insulting (either of people’s intelligence, or their views), always complaining about people insulting you, and always claiming you are being respectful simply because you select your words very carefully. I too am selecting my words very carefully here when I say, FUCK RIGHT OFF. You deserve no debate. At best, you deserve ridicule.

  218. uk

    Diaby actually had a good game against Newcastle. It was when we lost him that we started to struggle. Diaby has had more than a few poor games. You are right about that. But he does offer us something very valuable. He is very good at holding the ball (sometimes he does it for too long), and he’s good at driving us forward. Can he be disciplined in when to sit and when to break forward? I think he can, and can be a very important player for us..IF..and that’s the big IF..he can stay fit. If he plays a number of games in a row, he’ll become more consistent, and poor games should get lesser in number.

  219. Just thought I’d share something that happened on way to dropping my 5yr old to school this morning. He’s an Arsenal fan(taken him to watch a few games, & his favorite player is Theo). So he goes, ‘dad I don’t know what we can do about these referees, they don’t like Arsenal. Everytime a Chelsea player fell down they gave Chelsea a penalty, but when an Arsenal player fell over they just gave a free kick. They did that again last week against Manchester.’

    I tried to quote what he said here. Now, I have not told him what I think about the refs, and think I only had a little rant when Kos was sent off(I didn’t even watch yesterday’s game with him). Something might have influenced him to think that, not sure what, but I was just gobsmacked he came up with that. Didn’t know what to say. I didn’t think a 5year old had the capacity to think there could be favoritism in sport. Maybe my little rant played a part? Its disturbing if he’s going to grow up thinking there’s no fairness at all in sport. These refs should realize they’re role models to millions of kids out there, and they shouldn’t be seen to be ‘cheating’ or rewarding cheats.

  220. @Shard – well said mate!

    @Rupert – somewhere you have also mentioned ‘savage breast’ – go find some and come back only once you have found one!!! You filthy swine…sick of your moronic jibes.

  221. Shard two things
    1) What made diaby’s performance against newcastle bad was the needless sending off. If it hurt the team that badly, I think we can agree that it was a bad day for him.
    2)I believe when you say holding the ball too long, u mean holding onto the the ball to the point of eventually losing it and putting the team under pressure, or to the point where it kills a potentially good attacking move. Fabregas and pirlo are good at holding onto the ball for long periods(even longer than diaby) but we all celebrate them, why? Because they hardly lose it to the opposition and they usually use the time to conjure something good attacking-wise.
    So in all I think u and I agree on those points that diaby had a bad day at newcastle and negatively holds on to the ball too long. I do agree wit u dat diaby has had great games where his ability to make those drives was a joy to watch eg liverpool/porstmouth 2009/3rd goal vs aston villa 08/09 and even for france @2010 wc wher I thought he was the best french player. But the point is, 1) if diaby has had an impact for arsenal, its been in fits and spurts, so its funny to hear people say, if diaby was around we wouldn’t have been in this dump. And I repeat, diaby, to me, has had more poor games than good.
    2) The times diaby has had positive impact for us hav been when he played a more attacking role. So depending on diaby, with his indiscipline and tendency to “hold d ball too long” in the dm role is quite frankly laughable. You can say, he could make the transition and be a sucess, many have done it, kolo toure started as a striker, joseph yobo did, but are more renowned as defenders. But that is an “if” the answer being in the future in diaby’s case. So it won’t be out of place to hear an arsenal fan say “I hope diaby can become our viera”. But its funny when they attribute arsenal’s form now,to diaby
    And please leave rupert alone, he’s done nothing to you, how he thinks or not shouldn’t be your concern, all that bile just because of a little comment?

  222. @al
    Please don’t take this wrongly mate, but I seriously doubt you’re telling the truth about what happened wit your kid

  225. No George Graham is another person who doesn’t live in today’s reality.

    The answer is in the article you link to, Doublegooner. Just look for it and find it.

  226. Its the truth, why would I lie about that? He has above average intelligence too, and asks some very difficult questions, which aren’t relevant to this discussion, but that may explain part of why he asked me that this morning.

  227. @Shard, Gazidis said we have 35 million available for Wenger to spend. I’m rather disappointed in you that you’d think I’d make some figure up.

    I’m not tribal. I’ve grown out of that. I try to be as objective as possible. It really isn’t my fault that Arsenal are so haphazard, though judging by some of the opprobrium I receive you’d think it was.

    I pointed out that Manu non penalty incident yesterday because I was met with a hail of abuse when I suggested that Manu get harsh decisions too. Going by the logic of many on here, most of it embarrassingly flawed, if Manu had got the penalty they’d have won. Nonsense of course because the game was far from over but that random logic is applied when similar happens to Arsenal.

    @Asif, why be angry with me? I’m not the one letting you down frequently.

  228. @al, well if your kid has above average intelligence he’ll soon be a member of the mythical AAA. Only joking so don’t get all in a tizz.

    As to the refs being cheats I think you need to go and report them or something as you obviously have incontrovertible evidence. Or it could be that they’re just not very good.

  229. Doublegooner
    You will be hearing from my missus about that:)

    Ok, enough about my boy, I think Diaby is quite good. When Wilshere came back from his long lay off he didn’t just start by running the midfield, it takes a while to get over the rustiness. Rosicky was like that too. As a plplayer who’s been out injured more often than when fit, he’s had more hurdles to overcome than the other two, just hope he stays fit till end of season.

  230. @Shard, I just read your rather odd outburst. It’s a blog mate, calm down. It’s a joke, a little bit of harmless repartee. I may disagree with you but you make very pertinent arguments on the whole and the comment was certainly not aimed at you anyway.

  231. uk

    Diaby’s sending off was needless but was brought on by Barton’s assault on him. I don’t know if you’ve seen it, but Diaby’s leg bends quite unbelievbly there and was close to breaking point I would argue. His reaction, while stupid in the context of the game, was justified. Especially considering the injury hell he’s been through. You can’t say you want players with fire in their belly and not accept those sort of reactions as collateral. The real villain that day was Dowd, and if he had provided protection to the players, Diaby wouldn’t have had to take matters into his own hand.
    Secondly, I thought I said that the reason Diaby’s impact has been in fit and starts is because he’s only ever been able to play in fits and starts. Given more game time, he should be more decisive. I think he can make the transition because though he was rusty against Swansea, he did show better discipline, and a definite improvement over the City game.

    However, I agree with your overall point that Diaby’s absence shouldn’t be any sort of excuse for our form. Yes, we need a Diaby type of player and he would definitely help us. But as of now, Diaby not being fit is to be expected, and we should have a replacement for him in the squad.

    If how rupert thinks is of no concern to me, why is it of any concern to you what I say to him?

  232. @ Walter: we should have scored but did not. They did. be it a poor decision or not. We were not in the game for the 1st 45 mins and if you are focused, you will let in goals / defence make silly challanges, etc. If we played with the same intensity as the 2nd half, we could have won the game.
    As for what my manager told me [we had a few funny ref]. “dont give them the chance”. when i became a senior player, I would tell my team . “you score 2, 3, 4, the ref cannot do anything. he may give 1 or 2 decisions against.”

  233. rupert

    A link showing where and when Gazidis said 35m is available would make your stand more believable. I am not saying we won’t have access to 35m, or even more if required. I’m just saying it hasn’t been Arsenal’s policy to disclose transfer budgets. So, Gazidis saying what you say he said, would be a reversal of policy. For which I’d like some proof.

  235. Gouresh,

    but what if those 2 decisions cost you 2 goals… then it gets a bit more complicated of course.

  236. uk,
    now, don’t take this wrong mate, but were you mistreated as a youth? how dare you turn on a man who cites his kid and asks for advice? do you think in your massive cynicism that people will resort to trawling their children, or any children, in order to win a football debate? If you do, you have an unhealed wound and shouldn’t air it in public by assailing a man who cites children as an object lesson. And hey, mate, don’t worry, this is only a football blog. Be happy.

  237. rupert and Shard,
    I don’t think rupert can come up with that link and support his claim to 35M. i’d be happy to find that out of the horse’s (oh sorry, Mr. Gazidis’s) mouth.

    That said, I’d agree with what I think is your drift, Shard, that there might indeed be more than 35M, but we don’t know anything for sure, by design. I’d have to say that, from what’s available – including club voices saying there is money to spend and no problem, all of which statements are well known at this point – then we can each/all reach a guesstimate based on known and expectable revenues: TV deals this summer of 2013 I think, but correct me if it’s 2014; CL qualifier from last season; real estate deal consummated; zero transfer balance achieved; big money made on sales of cesc, nasri, song, rvp; ticket sales; merchandise; strategic partnerships starting with the Emirates deal. Of course there’s overhead including the stadium payout which is not eternal. Now, what mostly worries me is that with 4th place by no means secure (or near to secure?), that this insecure position will itself be used as an excuse to justify an alleged “need” NOT to spend, so that we can save for a rainy day. However, IF this because an excuse or rationalization not to spend in this transfer window, then I hope that people will remember all Gazidis and PHW’s blather about there being a Plan B, so no worries if we do not make the CL this (any given) season. I remember this and will not accept our precarious position as a reason not to spend now; but must join the many who say and feel in their hearts that this precarious position means spend now and save the season. If we do not, then we will be sailing toward a Liverpudlian fate. If that’s the case, the Emirates contract will fall to its lower end and help cement that fate. In that case, if the current ownership hasn’t already decided to sell off and be gone, then scenarios like trawling the likes of Jack to shore up the ship will, imo, be massively tempting to them. In which case we will lose half the fan base out of sheer disgust and take years to recover from an epic collapse. Now I say all this because, even if my logic is faulty, I think it is time to grasp the depth of this moment and to advocate as strongly as possible for major expenditures on major pieces and take those risks; because the risks of not spending are even greater (if any of this nightmare of mine unfolds).

  239. Does anyone have hard figures on what the TV deal amounts to? what it will mean to AFC? Does every team have an equal share in that deal, or is there a sliding scale or range? Is this deal a secret? Are there no trade/industry analyses of its magnitude and breakdown? There’s got to be in the business press. And if anyone can find it, knowing any of this, or at least a sound guesstimate, would help put our analyses and debates about what’s affordable and splashable on much firmer ground for us all. Perhaps someone of all readers has a link or two to provide toward such an analysis. It would provide at least one ray of light in the darkness that surrounds each club’s finances; even as football (like cricket in India) is, in fact, a very public pastime (even as it is privately trawled like chum to the fish).

  242. Shard,
    Many thanks for the link. It looks jam-packed with lots of data and breakdowns of the outlays by finishing position. I’ll get to reading it within a couple of days. Hopefully it will shed some light and we can discuss further. Cheers 🙂

  243. always blaming wenger, diaby ramsey the defence, why cant you blame the refs to just for.once.
    @ rupert
    it doesnt need a smart mind to realize that refs are always biased against us
    it doesnt need smart mind to realize that the team is not motivated due to negative supporters and media
    it doesnt need smart mind to realize that a fan should first do his job by supporting from min. 1 to 90 and then he can blame players for not producing…
    its a shame that we have a stadium called a library, and that we boo our players, destroy them and them.blame wenger for makjng arshavin what he is, oh come on be a fan for once, and by this i mean all arsenal fans, be biased towards ur team for once,…

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