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Everton and a bit of Chelsea – Arsenal 3-0

By Walter Broeckx

We will see some happy faces trying to come around at Untold in the next days. Those who want us to do bad. So they can say told you so. Well it wasn’t the best performance of the season. That is for sure. But I will take a few talking points that I think need to be mentioned.

The perversity of some loans was obviously visible today. Lukaku who is a Chelsea player playing for Everton did us over in the first half. First of all he was the player that gave the assist for the first goal and then he scored the second. Problem is that when Everton play Chelsea they cannot play him. But he can play against us and take points away from us.

Monreal just back from injury had a difficult afternoon against Lukaku. I had the impression that Vermaelen could have done better with the cross that lead to the first goal. I had the impression that he could have stopped it but he let it fly past him.

The second Everton goal was all about having the luck of the bounce. A first shot/cross aimed at Lukaku hit Arteta and could have gone anywhere. It fell kindly for Everton and at the second attempt it reached Lukaku. My friend from the Benelux supporters will be very unhappy about the defending after that. We know that Lukaku goes for his left foot 99,99% of the times but they didn’t cut it out. Both Monreal and Vermaelen didn’t make sure he couldn’t get his shot away.

Everton was the better team in the first half. And they had the better chances.   Arsenal mostly was dangerous after a few attempts from Podolski. It  was a bit of a surprise that we had most of the possession when the stats came on my screen. We didn’t do enough with the ball and Everton looked sharper on the break.

Let us have a few talking points about the ref in the first half. He did well to book Coleman for his reckless tackle on Sagna. That should have set the tone for the rest of the match. Alas he then allowed Naysmith a late tackle on Arteta without a card. Then he allowed Baines to fly in dangerously against Cazorla and the only thing he produced was a little finger.

This is bad refereeing as he has set the standard and then let it go suddenly when the same team made the same dangerous tackles. Of course Flamini didn’t get any sympathy when he made a foul. His first foul. And then the card came out. It’s such things that makes a people sad. Why can’t a ref be consistent for both teams?

The second half again Arsenal with most of the ball and Everton sitting deep and trying to counter. They got successful in this.We had a few half chances but it wasn’t to be.

Naysmith was stopped by Szczesny but the ball fell towards Mirallas and Arteta. And it looked as if Arteta pushed the ball over our own goal line. Game over.

Arsenal then brought on Ramsey and Oxlade-Chamberlain. And it was good to see Ramsey back on the field. He was very lively when he came on the field but he couldn’t help us to an early goal. But he had a good half hour of match competition and this will surely help him in the next weeks.

The best spell for Arsenal was in the last 15 minutes. Oxlade-Chamberlain with a shot that hit the crossbar deserved a goal. A goal that was scored in the extra time. But then again the assistant let us down. Sanogo was level with the last defender when the pass was made but the assistant didn’t want us to score. Not that it would have mattered for who would get the points but decisions should be correct and this is now the second time with Atkinson in charge that offside decisions go very much against us. And it might have given Sanogo a big boost to have scored his first goal in the PL.

The first time I asked myself if he gave such an instruction to his assistants before the match to be very strict for Arsenal with offsides. ? Now I think he does.

Talking about the ref. What was he doing in the last 10 minutes one could ask. Arteta disposed Barkley from the ball and Barkley just went after Arteta and pushed him with both hands to the ground. I remember Arsenal players being sent off for such things. The only thing Atkinson produced was a yellow card for … Arteta.  Not a good way to give the impression that you are completely impartial of course.

Not that I blame Atkinson for our defeat but even then we can at least ask that the ref does his job in a proper way. And would allow our goal to stand. And would send off players from other teams for things we usually are seeing red cards for and to be consistent when yellow cards should be given.

We now have 5 matches in the PL to go and a semi final for the FA cup the next weekend.  I think from now on we should win all the points from the remaining fixtures. And then we will finish fourth. As I am certain that Everton will drop points in their fixtures.  And if you think that is not a trophy you should read the words of an Everton player before the match. He said something along the lines that getting 4th place would be massive. Maybe even better than getting past us in the FA cup.

But we still have got a lot of work to do. And it is up to the players and the manager to find the right answers in the next weeks.  Let us hope that this match is the turning point. In a way it looked a turning point when we won at Spurs for the 3rd time this season. Since then the team has lost their rhythm.  Time to find it back as soon as possible.

Come on you Gunners!

218 comments to Everton and a bit of Chelsea – Arsenal 3-0

  • Jefferson Davis

    Bloody awful if you ask me.

    But we still have a point lead….

    COYG.

  • Robert

    You’re deluded. Did you watch the match?? Arsenal played terribly. Absolutely no sense of urgency
    and fight in the team. No pace. No dangerous chances created. Defensively disorganized. Very little
    game plan.

    And you can’t be serious in comparing Arsenal and Everton’s fight for 4th spot? Yes of course 4th spot
    would be massive for Everton – they are a poor club with little money! But Arsenal are one of the world’s
    richest clubs. Yet we’re no longer one of the world’s best clubs.

    Wenger has got to go. He has no plan B, no adaptability to diverse tactics. Arsenal are predictable and
    are so easily bullied of the ball in midfield. He has failed to strengthen in the 2 areas most needed this
    season: 1) a solid, strong and fast DM. Clearly Arteta isn’t good enough. 2) a world-class striker. Giroud
    would be ok for West Ham, not Arsenal.

    Your blog is way too naively optimistic.

    A tactically adept manager capable of truly motivating players would extract a very different team
    from the current squad.

  • bob mac

    Good article, and probably better than my cynics’ view.

    Was the second goal offside (naismith unsights the keeper)

    Was the third not a foul on Sagna on the half-way line.

    And not a bad performance with 6 first choice players missing, and at least 4 of those our most effective creative players!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I think Arsene is going to go with a false 9 next season and either sell Giroud (retaining Sagano as a covering option) or retain Giroud but not as the focal point of the attacking shape.

    I would be interested on other Untold’s views on this, as I am sure we have a forward thinking leader in Arsene.

  • AL

    Fair analysis Walter. I don’t think we did enough to win, maybe enough to draw without the comical reffing decisions. But some don’t want us to mention the ref. Thought Sanogo was on by half a yard by the way, but it shouldn’t matter anyway as his effort was still disallowed.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    We were quite poor today – lacking pace and very slow in the counterattack .They took their chances well while we had very few.
    Glad to see Ramsey back .With him on and the OX we were a lot better .Lets get this out of our systems and look forward to next week .
    Up the Gunners !

  • Macduff

    yet again Broeckx tries to polish a turd. Another day closer to Wenger out. Moderate that CUNT

  • SA Gunner

    Why dont we look at the actual tactics on display today.

    I would like Untold to ask why we have now been humiliated for a fourth time in a season.

    Is it the refereeing?

    Is it the injuries?

    Is it one of those off days?

    What is it Walter? Tony?

  • Why are you tryimg to divide the fanbase, it should be us against Wenger not fan against fan.

  • @bob mac naysmith was exactly blocking our keeper and was no goal but with the Arsenal all is ok fuck them up and you are good shit holes.

  • Mandy Dodd

    We have been very good flat track bullies this season. Time to get back to just that, then the manager and club need to seriously get to work over the summer. Some of these performances have been unacceptable, in terms of their lack of quality, and these days, their frequency. We are having an injury review, we also need a review of appalling away performances against EPL rivals

  • DistraughtGunner

    Sorry Walter, but I disagree with you. Whereas the ref was poor, our play was worse! There is something clearly wrong with the squad; it is lacking in quality… It must be or else more of the younger players would be playing! The front three all look tired and dispirited really from the start. As I stated on an alternative post, sticking with players when they are not performing is not a sign of strength. If the rest of the players in the first team squad are not ready or good enough then they should be in the reserves or out the club. The squad is too weak and the failure to strengthen not only last summer but also in January has come to haunt AW.
    Today I thought we were tactically poor; our midfield was overrun at will and really why was Kallstrom not brought on to strengthen this key area? Tactically we are predictable and poor. Time for a change sadly.

  • WalterBroeckx

    macduff,
    No I wont. I will just block you.

  • Mike T

    @Walter

    There is a whole debate as to loan players but if the clubs didn’t want them then they could vote against them allowing them. Because Arsenal don’t agree with the principal that doesn’t make it wrong indeed if it is so wrong then why do Arsenal bring loan players themselves?

    As Lukaku then the first game against Chelsea you are right he couldn’t play but Everton went on to win 1-0. When Chelsea won 1-0 Lukaku probably would not have played as he was coming back from injury.

    Having said all that why was it perverse today as he was eligible to play

    You were subject to two very bad decisions many others, like the but the result wasn’t a fluke Everton were the better team

  • BigNoseGooner

    Are you insane ?? Oh right let’s hope Arsenal get beaten 3-0 without a whimper so we can all call ourselves AKBs or AAAs

  • Brickfields Gunners

    It’ll probably a long night ,guys. Keep the faith and your cool ,and DON’T feed the trolls !
    Since so much crap is being spewed on this site ,I stick to the facts ….

    http://education.sulekha.com/50-interesting-and-informative-facts-50-interesting-and-informative-facts_91537_blog

    9. Laughing lowers levels of stress hormones and strengthens the immune system. Six-year-olds laugh an average of 300 times a day. Adults only laugh 15 to 100 times a day.

    17.Roosters cannot crow if they cannot extend their necks.

    19.Every time you sneeze some of your brain cells die.

    26.Google is actually the common name for a number with a million zeros.

    40.The only 2 animals that can see behind itself without turning its head are the rabbit and the parrot

    41.Intelligent people have more zinc and copper in their hair

    42. The average person laughs 13 times a day.

    48.Two animal rights protesters were protesting at the cruelty of sending pigs to a slaughterhouse in Bonn. Suddenly the pigs, all two thousand of them, escaped through a broken fence and stampeded, trampling the two hapless protesters to death

  • Brickfields Gunners

    There is something to be learned here ,I’ll leave it to you to find out.
    Goodnight !

  • Sod Gunner

    Just leaving Liverpool after another poor showing. Another bad day in a big game against a team near the top. Dissapointed with some fans booing Giroud today. Yeah some décisions went against us but to start making excuses about the officials is only masking the obvious limitations with the squad, we were just Not Good enough. Onto Wembley next

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    Yet another average display, when will we finally stop playing in a predictable fashion? We lack imagination and are quick to blame the ref and/or injuries which we incur every single year. Is it the refs, medical staff or just the short-sightedness of Le Prof?

  • Uzochukwu

    When people who call themselves arsenal supporters close their eyes to our obvious failures, words simply fail me. How on earth are you looking all over the place, looking for ehom to blame for our disgraceful performance, while the idealess Wenger is right before you? You are simply a true reflection of the saying “ARSENAL FANS’ VE GOT WHAT THEY DESERVE”. I even think Wenger himself knows that he is currently clueless, so save your breath. Before I forget, you can ban be if it catches your fancy, as Im sure it would.

  • i wish the sewer rats could see two penalties awarded to liverfall and only then could they vomit out that what we talk is nothing are you rats watching liverfall game against west ham??? For christ’s sake why didn’t we get that penalty??

  • Gf60

    I fear we got very much what we deserved today. Poor reffing would be irrelevant if we played as we did last week. Injuries or no, the squad was embarrassing today.

    Compared with Anthony Taylor, Atkinson is Pierluigi Collina! But at least Taylor (when not reffing Arsenal) is fair with both L’pool and Wham getting dreadful decisions.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @KampalaGun – Sewer rats? Have you had to travel back from Manchester, Liverpool and Chelsea after the no-show of AFC? Armchair fan no doubt!

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    I have no time for so-called fans who spend every year blaming our failures on referees. Do you think as long as we play tippy-toe football we’re above everybody else because the refs can’t handle it and judge against us? Very sad!

  • WalterBroeckx

    GF60, you have a point about that. I am watching that game and Taylor is an absolute disgrace.

  • WalterBroeckx

    5th Gen Gooner,
    then why are you still here?

  • WalterBroeckx

    And by the way I blame injuries most and for all for us falling behind.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Walter – Because I support the team week in and week out but surely I’m allowed to voice my opinion?

  • WalterBroeckx

    so are we. But discarding any ref influence from football is stupid.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Walter – Injuries are not a new thing to us. Why is it every year they cause us to fall at the final hurdle? Surely Wenger should be able to manage this situation just as all the other teams seem to do so well?

  • WalterBroeckx

    5th Gen Gooner,
    why? Refs for about 50%.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Walter – You cannot blame the ref every week. Every team in the PL has the same complaint, do you seriously think there is a conspiracy against AFC?

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Walter – Forgetting the bad decisions and what might have been. The key is ‘what might have been’, still no guarantee. Skill is all that counts and by the poor ref argument surely we should have adapted to not relying on refs by now?

  • Richard

    +Arsenal WILL get 4th spot – Everton have a tougher run in than us.
    +We will win the FA Cup (thanks partly to the fact that we are the only top side left in the competition) and end the trophy drought
    +Gazidis and Kroenke will beg him to stay and keep his ‘job for life’
    +Wenger will sign a much improved new contract and take home big wonga.
    +Gazidis will again tell everybody we will have money to spend (before season ticket renewal deadline)
    +Arsene will still get several ‘Sanogos’ hellbent on unearthing the next superstar that will go to INSERT AMBITIOUS CLUB NAME HERE and make the Arsenal a fortune
    +Arsene will still moan about financial doping of Chelsea ManCity (while watching Arsenals bank balance soar to £200m)
    +Arsene will do the customary trolley dash on the last day of the transfer window in the hope of saving a few pounds

    And all the Arsene apologists masturbate in unison :barscarf:

  • WalterBroeckx

    5th gen,
    You ask wy we get these injuries. It is because of refs not protecting our players enough. Look at the contact injuries we suffer from year after year.
    If refs by poor performances are responsible for 50% of our injuries then why aren’t we allowed to talk about them?

  • Richard

    @walter… its justified abuse. Wenger thinks its ok to earn 7.5 million a year, and constantly lie to, and belittle the fans. He complains about everything, but accepts no responsibility, and if anyone dares to criticise him, he throws the toys out of the pram. He is such a wanker, that he redefined what success is, because he is no longer capable of achieving actual success. The fact that he might sign a new contract, despite losing 6-3, 5-1, 6-0, 3-0 in big games this season, says it all about him, he has no class at all.

    Any manager with a sense of honour would have fucked off after the shambles against, I cant even think now there’s been so many but oh no he stays on and we get dicking after dicking after dicking and still he stays, him and the board deserve ALL the hate and abuse until both fuck off and rid us of this cancer that is Wenkers Arsenal.

    Brings in a Swedish crock on loan. Brings in an Italian keeper on loan. Tries to bring in ba from the chav on loan. Wenker doesn’t do hypocrisy does he ? 🙄 😳
    I know that some will say that our loans are from foreign clubs, but I don’t think that any club with our resources should be “borrowing” players at all 🙄

  • Doanythingformoney

    Lousy ref, lousy linos and lousy team selection.After Pool, Chelsea and Stoke- how could you go away to a difficult venue with Art, Santi, Giroud and Pod in the same team? They can’t run or tackle. Would his madness at Chelsea play any of them? Would Rodgers? Would Pellegrini?

    What is AW trying to prove? If I was Tomas or Flamini I would be disgusted at having to play with them.

    Bench these four and bring them on when the opponents are knackered and down to their pace. We pay without tactics- which is absolutely great, provides pro-football and exciting games- but you have to be fifty per cent better to do that. These players- away in the Prem to the good teams-are worse than their opposites. Certain failure.

    Is AW trying to make a point here- otherwise why does he keep doing it?

  • Richard

    @walter ..don’t give me that crap about injuries every frickin time we get caned. Every season it’s more or less the same :
    We start off with a full squad and do reasonably well
    Then we lose a couple of big games
    Players drop mentally
    At least half of starting line up gets injured
    We have a free fall in form
    Don’t bye anyone in January ( bar Arshavin )
    And come towards the season players are back and scraping what is left to scrape for.
    It’s getting ridicilous

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Walter – It’s the same for every team and not targeted at us. I too hate to admit out short falling but Wenger should be able to combat what seems to happen every year. We are simply not prepared and that falls on Wenger.

  • Richard

    I have never in my life seen a team at this level game in and game out completely isolate a single player on an entire side of the pitch by himself. I cannot believe that bloke doesn’t get caught on the ball more which shows everything about his quality and heart. I hope Sagna finds a club that pays him what he is worth. Dead on his feet at the end.

    Other than that, 6′s and 7′s in midfield, at the back, and obviously up front.

    This record….it’s broken. And stuck on repeat.

    The manager has no answers. It is time to get a new record.

    Fucking traveshamockery, the whole damn thing….Same shite different year. when sanogo is your option on the bench you know you are in trouble. this is aw’s doing. we will do nothing in the league til major changes are made and that includes wenger. but i dont think silent stan cares. i feel sorry for those who spent money to watch this lot.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    We simply have no clue how to change our game when things are not working and that comes down to the manager. We can argue about injuries and the officials but that does not resolve the position we find ourselves in every year. Seriously do you think Wenger is going to pull a rabbit out of his coat this season, next season or any other? He’s certainly failed for the last 9 years!

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    Wow, goes quiet when a sensible perspective is submitted!

  • Richard

    So much early promise in the season. Completely out fought today. Everton showed more desire, better movement and pace. We just never got going. The first half was painful.

    Giroud looks isolated, exhausted and when he cannot hold the ball up and there are no runners it makes no sense him playing.

    To see a young guy with zero goals in his career come on to try and change things shows an embarrassingly thin squad.

    We are plummeting down the league now as other teams are hitting form. At this rate bloody United might catch us.

    Feel miserable. The promise of a trip to Wembley now just feels like another chance to fuck it up, but hey you can be sure to find an article not berating the performance but blaming the size of the grass or some other crap…Get a grip please. You’re making yourselves look sillier by the minute.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Richard – Amen brother!

  • Richard

    @5th Gen Gooner: It’s because they’re only viewing through the rose tinted glasses. Not sure how but they would have defended wenger even if we lost by 20 goals. A club like Arsenal, the prestige, the honour it’s been shot to pieces but there are some on here who don’t give a toss about that. As long as the dictator is not taken away everything is fine. They don’t realise he’s past his sell by date years ago.

  • Richard

    When Arsene made his first substitutions when we were 3 down I finally realized that he has completely and utterly lost his plot. I wasn’t very happy up to this point, naturally, but this for me was the final nail in the coffin.
    Thank you for many amazing years and after that not so amazing but difficult because of financial restrictions and let’s be fair, it was a success in a way to reach CL every year despite budget restrictions, but now, I think, is time that we go our separate ways. I simply cannot see how we can make steps forward at this point.

    It goes to show you…You got beaten 3-0 and you still have some stupid players smiling. Wenger has lost it; this guys are useless and don’t deserve a cent of their wages. We have a useless fucker like Giroud as our first choice striker….what has he done to earn his wages?? 2 reasons why we failed to win the league- Wenger and FUCKING GIROUD. Absolute disgrace…no heart, nothing!!!

    PS Did you see when the two managers shook hands at the end Martinez said to Wenger ” if you could be out by the end of May that would be great as I am having the decorators in”.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Richard – At last a true fan! I’m tired of coughing up week in week out to see a team that just does enough to appease a select few of the fans. Christ ManU stumble and they’re up in arms but AFC just keeps plodding along and making out that CL qualification is like winning a trophy. This is Arsenal Football Club and we shouldn’t be blaming everyone and their dog for the fact that we just simply are not good enough. Giroud is a good striker but he’s not world class and unless we wake up it will be more the same next season. 🙁

  • Richard

    I think being 1st on new year’s day was a bit flattering, but still, considering where we were to be hanging on and hoping for fourth now means questions HAVE to be asked of the manager. Yes we’ve had injuries, but they wouldn’t have had such an impact if we’ve done more to build a deeper, better squad. So again, the blame for that has to come back to the manager. According to him the money has always been there, so why let the squad dwindle down to the 15 or so players we have now?

    I’m pretty sure (at least, have to pretend to be) that Everton won’t finish in fourth with the games they still have to play. But what we do this summer will signal if this club really wants to challenge consistently and win regularly, or is it just content with being in the Champion’s League and keeping the bank balance healthy? Are we really going to move on (with or without Wenger) in the next few years or just keeping fighting off the Evertons of this world?

    Wenger has a lot of work to do this summer. We may have to buy a striker (I’d prefer two, but this is Arsene Wenger we’re talking about), and replace a right back, a back up keeper and a central defender (if Thomas take to make us challengers again. But if he’s not willing to, please, bring in someone who will. This slow, Vermaelen leaves). That’s 4 players just to replace natural wastage; we haven’t even come to squad building yet. Every transfer window we’ve been scouring the world and not come up with much (As great a deal Ozil was, no one believes he was part of any kinds of strategic grand plan). In a world cup summer when players will be sought after and at inflated prices, I don’t have a great deal of confidence in Wenger to do what it will painful death of my club by a thousand poor performances is killing me.

    Once, it was an accident. Twice is a little worrying. Three times is shameful. What is the fourth time? This Arsenal team is flooded with cowards. Not competitors. When the times are good, everyone is enjoying himself, but when the going gets tough, they show there cowardice attributes. Pathetic.

    Rant over.

  • @walter cat you get rid of these two pricks we tired with their deluded minds.

  • Richard

    @5th Gen…I can assure you the Man U hierarchy wouldn’t have settled for it. Even if they did the fans would have been in uproar. Man U are on the upward trend mate and if we’re not careful we’ll be in a dogfight with them for 5th. Just imagine that. A team that was top on new years day now fighting for 5th. Wenger said a team is a reflection of the managers ability….eerrmm Well Wenger what have you got to say about this – you muppet!

  • Richard

    @Kampalagun..I notice how you have not answered a single question from any of my posts. Care to elaborate a little? Or, do you want to run away like the manager does?

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    Amen brother – Giroud is average at best, we need a couple of world class strikers not Bendtner or Sanogo! Martinez in and Wenger upstairs – said it before and got berated!

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @KampulaGun – Truth hurt? Hurts me buddy but at least some of us have the balls to stand up!

  • Richard

    @5th Gen: it’s not Giroud’s fault he’s not good enough. It’s Wenger’s fault we haven’t supplemented our attack (and defensive midfield to be honest). He had summer and winter to remedy that. Only the most fortuitous of circumstances allowed us to swoop for Ozil. Instead, all Wenger can muster are late bids for Papiss Cisse, Miroslav Klose and Solamon Kalou!

    We can’t keep trotting out the same mantra about limited finances any more. Limited finances aren’t the reason we lose to Everton, Stoke, Man United, Chelsea (6-0), Liverpool (5-1). What excuse will Wenger deliver if Liverpool win the league, or Everton finish in the top four? We’ve twice the finances of these clubs! It was very interesting when Wenger reacted testily to questions about Liverpool’s title prospects. Their success would make him look the eternal fool. Almost some part of me wants City or Chelsea to finish above Liverpool to save Arsene the embarrassment!

    Our form is in the toilet, our players are mentally knackered. We didn’t show any fight all day but when that 3rd goal went in, the players gave up. That’s the most alarming part for me. Our lineup worried me from the offing. It was almost too experienced! Chamberlain starts for me over Podolski any day. And why did it take a 3rd concession for Arsene to make a change! Make a change at half-time when you’re 2-0 down, Ramsey and Chamberlain tried to make more happen in 20 minutes than the rest of the team combined. And why not not take off the ineffectual Giroud and try Podolski more centrally?

    Mentally, physically, tactically, collectively, individually one of the worst games under Arsene’s reign and I’m just not sure whether he’s the right man any more.

    An alienated yet still faintly hopeful Arsenal fan.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Richard – Dunno about you mate but I’m finding the sand hurts every time I try to put my head in it! 🙂

  • Mick

    There was a time when Untold was the only sane and reasonable place for me to meet and talk to like minded folk, ie proper supporters who support the club, manager and players through thick and thin without having the arrogance to think they know all the answers and could do a better than the people running the club at present. I used to enjoy my time on this blog but it is becoming increasingly difficult to distinguish it from other less pro Wenger sites. I appreciate we do not all agree with the aims of this blog and do not approve of the way the club is run but why do the likes of 5th Gen, Richard etc have to pollute Untold with their opinions which they know full well are not in sync with the majority of Untold regulars. Why do they only show up when we are having a bad run? Please do us a favour, leave us poor deluded fools in peace and depart to Le Grove where you will find lots of like minded people prepared to agree with you.

  • Richard

    @Mick, What, so just because we don’t buy into this pro wenger bollox we should go elsewhere? Democracy a new word for you maybe>? With fans like you and kampla Maureen is starting to look justified with his “Specialist in failure” comment

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Mick – So as Arsenal fans who regularly line the coffers of our club we are not allowed to voice our opinions? So what you are saying is Untold Arsenal is deluded and we’re not welcome unless we say ‘praise be Wenger?’

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Richard – Guess we’re not allowed to speak unless Wenger is the new (sorry old) Messiah?

  • JJ

    Well said, Mick. I like reading different views and arguments but when it descends into the realms of abuse then these individuals should find another place to voice their filth regardless of how valid their point may be.

  • @Mick thanks, those rats run away from fire n shows their ass when it rains@Richard what questions do you want me to answer you are telling us to let wenger go and all the prayers. leicester city is promoted why don’t you go and support them.@5thGen rat arm chair fan as you said but not a fanatic like your ass. You only appear during bad days why don’t you show your ass when we win

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    Well I guess if everyone who thinks Wenger is passed his sell-by-date should move ‘Le Grove’ from this site then democracy just went out the window and ‘Untold’ is has become a dictatorship. Good luck blinkered followers!

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @KampalaGun – I don’t need to blow my own trumpet. This is AFC we should always expect to win!

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    Guess being an Arsenal support by the ‘Untold’ banner is breeding a load of sheep!

  • WalterBroeckx

    If you don’t mind I do have to take care of my wife at times. Do some cooking so we can keep ourselves alive.
    So forgive me for taking care of that and not answering your ‘questions’.
    You have said on a few occasions that you don’t have time for us yet keep spending your time on us.
    As the dictators at Le Grove have banned me for asking one question once you can count yourself lucky that we don’t do it like that. Or use their other ‘tactics’

  • WalterBroeckx

    Give me the answer to the question: what is the difference between the Arsenal that has been top of the league for most of the games this season and the one of the last weeks.
    Answer that and you know the reason why. And no the manager is not different from those days. 😉

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    Perhaps the difference is between playing the top echelons of the game?

  • Max

    The injuries is the answer Walte. OObviously but fault lies solely at the manager for not strengthening effectively in the Jan window. I am sorry all we needed was one decent striker. I’m inclined to agree with a lot of what Richard and fifth gen have said.

  • WalterBroeckx

    No we have been top till 03 February and after playing 24 matches including all the top teams. so that can’t be it

  • Mick

    Richard
    Lets call a spade a spade, forget all that democracy shit. On the previous thread you called Arsene Wenger a ‘French p*ick’ and that offended me and probably lots of other Untold regulars. That sort of language should be enough to get you banned in my opinion but Walter is obviously a lot more tolerant than I am. On the basis of that one comment alone I call you out as a despicable, racist, xenophobic ignorant breed of scumbag and it would make me very happy if you just fucked off. Is that plain enough for you to understand?
    5th Gen Gooner
    Your language isn’t so offensive but you are still an annoying shit so you fuck off as well.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Max,
    could you name me the decent striker and please give me one that has been on the market? In other words a striker that another team was wanting to let go.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Thanks for pointing that out Mick. I missed that part as I just skipped the comments 😉

  • WalterBroeckx

    Clean it up, clean it up. anyone else noticed something racist today, just let me know.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Walter – And what is different from the last 9 years? Nothing perhaps that’s the answer you’re looking for?

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    The position we find ourselves in today is the same one as all the other years. Time for a change?

  • Rupert Cook

    Simply Arsenal can’t hack it against pacy teams and are so slow and addicted to this pointless sideways passing that unless Wenger decides to change the playing style we’ll never progress. 20 goals conceded away from home to our major rivals for a CL spot. It’s utterly appalling. Some of our players look completely disinterested at times as if they don’t believe in what they’re doing. The utter absurdity of going into the season with one cf, and not a particularly good one, shows a disturbing lack of perception. Unless we buy some pacy strong players expect the same next year. And please Wenger buy a world class striker.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Mick – You’re an offensive little f*ck!

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Rupert Cook – A world class striker and a decent DM too!

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Mick – Contribute something positive or keep it to yourself okay!

  • Max

    Seems like people want to hide behind probables and what ifs… The fact is mournho was right Wenger is a special one in failure. No doubting that comment one b it

  • Ken

    1. Take away 5 of your first eleven of any team bar Chelsea and city the team will suffer.

    2. 4 of them were our main creativity source and the other one a heart beat of our defense it really does have a lot of effect on the teams quality. But it proof our squad was week.

    3. Technically Wenger pick the right team to not to lose. But did not manage to keep the players just to do counter. Instead they attack as usual and let the other team high pressing, took the ball then counter us. Can’t blame Wenger on this.

    4. When two nill down at half time, we desperately need change and most importantly pace. Wenger waited until the third goal then make the changes. I really blame him for that, I can’t understand this decision.

    5. Not buying in January, who can predict all the creative players break down in the same time? But if he had already decided not to use the big Dane at that time, he really should have sign a cover for our forward line and it have come back haunt him now

    6. I think we all used to the special treatment from ref. Just check how many pk we have this years compare to our title rivals. Or may be look ManU without fergie, the city offside goal yesterday or Liverpool pk decisions today…. They do alter the result of games. But we also have to look at our team performance, which is poor especially the first half today.

    7. Anyway, hope now Ramsey is back we can hold the ball better in the middle of the park and add more creativity back to the team.

    8. We all love the team. Let’s get together and support the team. Win the FA cup and secure fourth is still achievable. COYG!!!!

  • Max

    At the Emirates what do theysing aabout pe? The bbig effing German…. That’s not racist is it mick?

  • WalterBroeckx

    No Max as it is meant in a positive way. I doubt that the word prick, twat or cunt is usually meant in a positive way.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    Seems unless you tow the party line that Wenger is a ‘Demigod’ then you have no right to speak! I am an Arsenal supporter of over 40 years and I have a right to say what I think. Let’s hear what you have to say should we have another failure of a season come next month!

  • WalterBroeckx

    the how many years argument is worth nothing 5th gen Gooner. So does that make you a better supporter than someone who is 30 years? 20 years?

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Walter – We (Arsenal supporters) are not happy and sometimes articulation is not what it should be but lets accept it for what is – honest criticism!

  • Rupert Cook

    @5th Gen Gooner, yes a great DM too. I am baffled by Wenger’s persistence in this pedestrian style of football that has yielded no success for nigh on ten years when he had a decent blueprint for success in his first seven years at Arsenal. He looks like a dinosaur compared to young managers like Martinez and Rogers. His time is probably up but he’ll decide when he goes as nobody at the club has the balls to sack him.

  • Uzochukwu

    @Kampala gun, you better trek back to Kampala where they groom dictators. @Richard, Podolski can do a job for arsenal, if only Wenger can think beyond his nose. Try him on the right wing, and his lethal left feet becomes useful, like Robben and Bale (when he was at Spurs). Iam even begining to think that Wenger no longer inspires anything positive in the players. Do not forget that a lot of these players were very good before they got to Arsenal. It beats me why you have to wait till the 65th minute to make a change when a supposed lesser team is running rings round your team. And he sat throughout, meaning that all was well with his soul.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Walter – It doesn’t but it shows that I am a true fan and not a fly-by-night as suggested by KampalaGun. It does however suggest that I have been through some very dark days as an Arsenal fan and can speak from experience other that some of these newbies!

  • Arsenal have been playing drab football all season.
    Against the top 7 sides in the league Arsenal have picked up13 out of a possible 36 points.
    Arsenal are flat track bully specialists.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Yes 5th gen gooner, and in those dark days there weren’t even oil money teams we had to compete with.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Rupert Cook – Baffles me too mate, can’t believe in January we signed a loaned crock to cover Ramsey!

  • bjtgooner

    @Mick @6.32 pm etc

    Well said Mick, I fully agree with your sentiments. It is strange that self appointed long term “gooners” that we have previously never or only occasionally heard of come to a pro Wenger site to mouth off with anti Wenger bile – unfortunately this happens every time we have a bad result, almost as if UA is being deliberately targeted.

    Strangely this is not the first time one of the prominent anti Wenger ranters has displayed chronic diarrhoea of the mouth – must have caught something nasty down the sewers.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Thanks for the interesting comment Ken.
    It almost got lost

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Walter – Poor excuse because we have had the cash recently and in those days we never accepted 8-2, 6-0 and 6-3 drubbings!

  • WalterBroeckx

    because we were boring 🙂

    Mind you we do have spend some cash last summer. Didn’t help much…

  • Mick

    @5th Gen Gooner
    Apologies for my outburst toward you, it was Richard who infuriated me with his disgusting Wenger comment and I am afraid you got the backlash as well.

  • Max

    It looks like today was the last straw for some of the die hard Wengerites. I know people are emotional after games like this but a quick scan of the pro-Wenger blogs shows most want Wenger out. I just don’t see how it can go on, really. Especially with these away humiliations. The away support has always been the cream of Arsenal supporters and to have the team shame them so many times in away games is unacceptable. Something has to change. But don’t be surprised if it doesn’t. As a stateside fan I can guarantee you Stan Kroenke will not care ONE BIT if we miss out on top four, continue to be humiliated, or never challenge for another title. He is not like John Henry in the slightest and he will actually try quite hard to get Wenger to stay because Wenger runs the team on the cheap. Kroenke has no plans on competing with the Chelseas and Citys of the EPL

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @bjtgooner – Happy with how we are playing? Happy with the results? Happy with the squad? Happy with Wenger’s tactics? No? LOL!

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Walter – Boring and success is acceptable. Exciting and consistent failure (bit like Spurs) is not. Mick – It’s okay, not an easy time right now mate, no worries!

  • Why are you pro Wenger you should be pro Arsenal.
    The club is to big to handle for such a limited manager as Wenger.

  • Pat

    Blimey, I listen to Arsene Wenger’s press conference where he speaks in a manner eminently sane, not pretending he understands all the factors in our performance but suggesting a few that sound likely, saying he will look to improve our performance so that we achieve fourth place, thinking lack of confidence must be a factor. Of course he’s not allowed to mention referees or injuries because that might suggest he doesn’t have confidence in the players on the pitch, or lay him open to all the usual attacks.

    Then I read Walter’s eminently sane article where he also mulls rationally on factors in our performance.

    Then I turn to the eighty odd contributions to the debate. Who are these new people? Who is 5th Gen Gooner? Who is Richard? Why have they suddenly come on our site because we’ve lost again? And Rupert of course.

    Anyway I didn’t read all the contributions because I have better things to do. Sorry you had to, Walter.

    Roll on next weekend. Hopefully Ramsey will be ready to go. Maybe Gibbs will be back. Obviously we really miss Koscielny. We must trust our coaching team to get us in shape for the match. And trust the players – they can’t have all gone from good to useless. Manchester City second half was one match ago – and that was assessed by various journalists and pundits as our best performance all season.

    Up the Gunners!

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    Wenger has an amazing talent for spotting new and exciting players but recently has shown a void in team tactics. Can’t help thinking his innovation to the game has been adopted by every team in the PL and he’s now run out of advantages to Arsenal to set us apart from everybody else. We seriously need a new tactical manager at the helm.

  • andy1886

    I’m not here to abuse AW or the players, but it was a poor performance an one that is unfortunately becoming the norm in the past few weeks. As much as anything else it seems that the change in playing style that we’ve persisted with since the side was originally built around Cesc has really proven ill suited to the PL and the players that we have available. All the best teams under AW where characterised by pace and power – AFC were never bullied by anyone, remember all the press bleating about red cards under AW? Did we care? Nope, not a bit.

    We really do need to see a return to the strong spine we used to have pre-Cesc. We’re too easy to counter and there really is no one that can take a game by the scruff of the neck. In the past we had players who could drag us through a bad performance so that we’d come out with a point, or even all three. Too often these days heads drop and we capitulate when the going gets tough. Arsene values technical ability above all else, but you also need some steel to give yourself a chance to express that ability.

  • bjtgooner

    An excellent comment Pat. It is always interesting that some of the anti Wenger new guys always latch onto the rupert, almost as if they had some sort of previous.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    @Pat – Isn’t that the same press conference we heard after the Liverpool drubbing and the Chelsea one also? Enough is enough!

  • Mick

    @5th Gen Gooner
    As for having anything positive to contribute, if I have helped get Richard banned by pointing out his racist remark then that is positive enough for me.
    Further to that my thoughts are that there are four things which are responsible for our present lack of confidence and self belief.

    1… Constant media (and some supporters) negativity toward the club and manager.
    Negative discrimination has probably caused the players to doubt their abilities as footballers. Tell people they are failures for years on end and they will likely start to believe it and that’s how our squad look to me, totally bereft of confidence. I fear for next Saturday.

    2… Refereeing bias.
    See Walters extensive work over the last couple of years and the work done by the independant of Arsenal site Debatable Decisions, who’s conclusions agreed with Walters.

    3… Injuries.
    Self evident whatever the cause but probably related to refereeing, 5 first choice players missing today plus a couple more just back from injury.

    4… Sugar daddy/oily clubs distorting the wage/transfer market.
    The top players are largely beyond our reach now, even our better current financial position pales into insignificance against the Chelseas of this world.

    There are probably other less important factors but that is how I see it.

  • 5th Gen Gooner

    In Wenger we flounder – Sorry had to be said. 🙁

  • Goonergerry

    Failing in big games is now the norm.

    All of the ingredients in this failure were there in our first failure this season away to Man City where both Ramsey and Walcott were playing.
    Our approach, type of players, playing style, defensive organisation is just no longer effective against top sides away from home.
    Our midfield is not up to the physical challenge of the EPL over the season.

    Face the truth Wenger lovers-this is not going to be put right by a few signings or injured players manifesting the same psychological weaknesses as their team mates, coming back.

    It is clear that a different playing direction is needed

  • Wenger’s a guru who should easily combat the force of Chelsea and Man City with his mental strength, technical quslity, focus, desire, belief and fighting spirit.

  • andy1886

    Pat, this isn’t a recent decline – look at our form over the last couple of months and it’s poor. One good half at home to City isn’t much of a highlight (and although we did pretty well it wasn’t our best performance by a long chalk either). One worrying factor is as you say that AW doesn’t seem to either know why this has happened (okay he can make a few guesses by so could any of us) and he seems unable to address the problems that he can see. I’m not sure which is worse, not knowing or not being able to do anything about it? The managers job is to analyse what went well, what went badly, and then remedy the latter. If he is unable to do either of these then there is no logical reason to expect an improvement in performances.

  • Jax

    The pro-Wengerism on this site (to which I generally subscribe) is in danger of becoming blind faith, and people are taking exception to constructive criticism. It’s no good getting abusive to someone who doesn’t share your opinion. Personally I think Arsene needs help which will have to come from outside the club. Whether that means he will have to step down or move sideways remains to be seen, but whatever course is taken I’m sure it will be handled with dignity. I see David Dein was at the match today. Is that significant? He may of course been there just as a supporter, but there might be something going on in the background that involves him.

  • Steve0

    The fact that you support the idea of allowing loaned players to face their parent clubs strikes me as very, very odd based on some of the other writing here. On the front page right now you’ve got an article talking about match fixing, and you clearly believe there’s some sort of anti-Arsenal agenda with the officiating. Do you really thinks it’s in the best interests of fair competition to have players under contract with Chelsea or Man City allowed to take part in matches against their clubs? At the moment, City are still paying a large portion of Gareth Barry’s wage. That’s a pretty massive conflict of interest for the player, especially as his future is largely in the hands of the loaning club.

  • WalterBroeckx

    SteveO, no loans in the same league would be the best of course. No conflicts and all clubs face the same possible starting line up

  • WalterBroeckx

    Jax,
    maybe to sort out the refereeing? 😉

  • dan

    Walter

    Everybody are calling us bottlers. The whole system is against us, Wenger is playing straight into their hands.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Do wonder if Wenger not signing is starting to at times have a bit of an unsettling effect on the players, on top of other issues. That is assuming of course the players do not know something we don’t. If they believe for instance, they are playing for the future of the clubs most successful manager, and having witnessed difficulties involving Moyes, wonder if this is adding to pressure? Not the whole story by any means, but maybe a small part of it. We have seen some odd performances lately, some looking as if they are playing with fear, in contrast to most of the last year or so. A new manager would bring huge uncertainty, some thrive on that, others do not. I am sure wenger has his reasons for delaying signing, possibly even a motivational tool, but this could backfire.

  • bob

    ” trust the players – they can’t have all gone from good to useless. Manchester City second half was one match ago – and that was assessed by various journalists and pundits as our best performance all season.”
    Pat, very true; but our inconsistency seems very real — and perhaps it’s down to a big fall-off to a (worrisome) non-quality bench – with Monreal and TV on the left vs the formidable (reverse positioning) of Lukaku and Naysmith, rather than having Kos and Gibbs. Is there too much of a drop-off in quality, or not enough playing time or training time together? Clearly that was a major fly in the ointment today. Is it avoidable tomorrow?

  • bob

    Ken,
    I enjoyed your thoughtful list and agree with all points save this:
    “5. Not buying in January, who can predict all the creative players break down in the same time?”
    They didn’t break down all at the same time – that is all at once. Some of us argued since the summer that one striker wouldn’t be enough, and we got slammed for being naysayers. There’s no joy in being right about this. But is seemed as obvious then as it is now, that one central striker was inviting trouble. Then nothing again in January because the top-top-top were not available; as if quality that was less that that wouldn’t have helped to complement and give a spell to Giroud (who stupidly went public in asking AW not to purchase another striker!) One more thing, I’m sorry but for all the “Mikel Arteta is a different type of midfielder” so no worries, the fact is we have not replaced Alex Song.

  • Mark

    The argument surrounding loan players is irrelevant and an excuse for the poor performance. There is nothing to stop us playing loan players. If Viviano came on and saved a penalty we we be saying ‘that’s not fair on Everton’ – of course we wouldn’t. Just accept that we are not the team we once were and haven’t been for a while.

  • bob

    sorry, should read: “as if quality that was less than that…”

  • Mandy Dodd

    There is hope on the horizon, Ramsey, Kos, Jack , Ozil…..and hopefully a bit more of Ox. But still baffled by today. What was really strange was the lack of help Bac was getting,on that side, none of the MF really took responsibility on that front. Have seen recent poor performances whereby Gibbs, and Monreal were getting equally exposed from MFs. Do not want to reopen the wenger bould thing, but some,games, our defence looks quite solid, today, they did not look like bould had been within a million miles of them.
    Today was disturbing, we made it far too easy for Everton, as we have with other teams.
    Some players are clearly running on empty, we need our top boys back. And when the dust settles, and it will, we must ensure we never again go a season with such a small squad of trusted players, nor should we ever again underestimate the impact of injuries. It happens every year. We need to think about the way we play, it is clear refs are going to continue allowing rotational fouling,if we cannot stop it, we must find a way to counter it, and that means a big MF of a midfielder for some games.

  • dan

    Mandy

    Very true, but, it seems the management or the board are non too concerned. This has been going on for too long, come summer I’m sure we will wait to the very end to sign players. We gamble too much, sooner or later we will pay the price.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Have always agreed with you on Song Bob, after all, if he is good enough for Barca, he is good enough for us. When the going is good, other MFs we have are effective, but they do not seem good shutting up shop against the better teams
    Someone like Song, could help in such a role.
    Still cannot believe we played the kamikaze high line again in such a game, that did not help today…at all.

  • bob

    “we must ensure we never again go a season with such a small squad of trusted players, nor should we ever again underestimate the impact of injuries. It happens every year. We need to think about the way we play, it is clear refs are going to continue allowing rotational fouling,if we cannot stop it, we must find a way to counter it, and that means a big MF of a midfielder for some games.”
    Mandy Dodd,
    Yes, totally sound. Lessons are here to be learned. In fact were there to be learned since the summer; but what matters beyond all things is that they surely are clearer now.

  • Damilare

    Evidently we played poorly today. Blame anybody you want. Im sure AW has never exonerated himself from any defeat.

    The sandpapers want AW out because he is no longer good enough for the club. That’s ok, but you have come to the wrong place with your ‘right’ opinions.

    Coming here to rub it in our faces everytime we play poorly is also understood. Having said that, now go back and tell Le Grove that after all been said, In Arsene We Still Trust today until you guys install your new manager.

    Off topic: I have been away for a while. My wife delivered a baby boy 9 days ago and I have been very busy. I wish I could share this good news earlier than now.

    COYG

  • andy1886

    Well, although we should take at least 13 points from the next five games there are no guarantees. WHam are in form, we should take 3pts but then again the same could have been said for Swansea. Hull have had some good results (including beating ‘Pool at home and sticking six past Fulham), we should beat Newcastle and WBrom, but Norwich could need something to avoid relegation on the last day. One thing is for sure, we need to improve on today’s performance or our minimum goal of 4th is gone.

  • Dave C

    Lots of ‘real’ supporters here today. Where do the less angry ones go for solace when Untold is saturated with negativity?

  • dan

    Does Wenger still have faith in our forever injured Diaby? He is one player I would love to see back, but for how many games?

  • Pat

    Mandy, I think next season we will have a stronger squad. Arsene Wenger has already talked about strengthening. Weirdly, I think we have made it more difficult for ourselves by being so unexpectedly good for the early part of the season. Being top for 17 weeks or whatever it was was such a wonderful feeling for us all – including the players, I’m sure. I honestly think the injuries are the difference at the moment and that has knocked the confidence of the ones who are left. And it was an early away match again – what is it about those matches?

    You are right – we will have players back soon and I reckon that will make a big difference.

    What annoys me most at the moment is we didn’t get any credit when we were top all that time and now the detractors don’t even mention it. But Liverpool are top for one week and it’s like they are the bees’ knees.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Think that is certainly wengers modus operandi Dan at times, but wonder if this will be another issue to be up for review if it is deemed as harming the team. Any area where we are underperforming needs looking at , I don’t buy all these stories about wenger being completely resistant to change, but if there is even a hint of such things going on, there needs to be stipulations in any new deal. If we fail to reach the CL this year, it will cost 30m plus….and all that will entail, if we fail to qualify next year, it will be double that. Sponsors are paying us good money, there will be serious penalties for failing to reach the top four. A well meaning desire for our manager to wait, play poker to get the best deals may well be deemed …..how shall I put it…..an unnecessary corporate risk not to be tolerated. A lot of Things will change this summer. We need to just back the team to get into the top four , hopefully with an FA Cup, and for me at least, get wengers signature…and let the club do some work this summer, have a feeling we may be surprised

  • Pat

    Damilare – congratulations!

  • Pat

    Yes we may indeed be surprised this summer. The pundits never predicted Ozil, did they?

  • Mandy Dodd

    Agree Pat, confidence has been knocked… but as for Liverpool , there has always been a media love in with them. Looks like the refs have taken note of the stick Howard Webb took when he failed to award Liverpool a pen against us in the cup tie, I have never seen a team get so many dodgy pens, and that includes even Utd. We will NEVER get the favours Liverpool are now getting from all quarters while Wenger remains unfortunately.
    We are in a bit of a perfect storm, we are having one of our worst runs for a while, but teams that have been around us, Liverpool and Everton both having their best ever runs in the EPL

  • Mandy Dodd

    Yes, second that, congratulations Damilare, hope all goes very well….good to hear someone at least has some good news!

  • GoonerInNY

    Walter, do you really sit and think about your comments? Is there actual thought involved? Because anyone who is a doctrinaire ideologue about anything isn’t thinking.

    First, your opening line is, frankly, insulting: “We will see some happy faces trying to come around at Untold in the next days. Those who want us to do bad.” You reduce every Arsenal fan into two categories: real fans who support the clubs’ decisions no mater what, and fake fans who have the nerve to question how things are won. That is not only overly rigid, it doesn’t make much sense.

    There are a TON of Arsenal supporters who love the club, want the club to do well every week, but feel like the owner and manager are not doing all they can within their means to make the club better. That doesn’t make someone AAA. It doesn’t mean we enjoy losses (I was gutted watching that disgraceful performance today). It means that we disagree with your the-manager-is-always-right-and-it’s-never-his-fault approach to commentary.

    A few points:

    – You say 50 percent of the loss is the refs. Blaming the referee for results in sport is the last refuge of someone who has run out of ideas. Over the course of a season, reffing evens out. If you are only looking for bad calls against your team, that’s all you see.

    – You say injuries are the main reason. Of course they are. But when the owner and manager refuses to build a proper squad, and the manager refuses to rotate players, year after year, of course players get hurt, year after year. It’s not tough to understand. The people who don’t want to accept this are just not being realistic. And blaming injuries on the refs is just straight wrong. Was it a crazy challenge that brought down Walcott? No. He was barely touched. Ramsey? Nope. Ozil? Nope. Not one injured player this year came from a bad tackle. Not one. And, of course, when the squad isn’t equipped to handle injuries, the injury situation is made worse.

    – You say it’s the same manager’s tactics that had the club on top of the league that has presided over this collapse. But some things didn’t change throughout the season. Against the top five teams in the table not called Arsenal, Arsenal is 0 wins 5 losses 0 draws on the road with, with 3 goals for (all in one game) and 21 goals against, including losses of 6-0, 5-0, 6-3, 3-0 and 1-0. At home, Arsenal is 1 win and 4 draws against the clubs. So yes, the manager has been outmaganed consistently all season.

    What I just don’t understand is how any fan who sees what Arsenal’s financial situation is, what the wage bill is, what tickets cost at the Emirates, etc. can defend the roster construction. How can you go two years without a backup striker at top-of-the-table EPL level? When Theo went down, how was no attacking player brought in in January? How has the team been set up with no legitimate wingers (Walcott is out), no pace to hit teams on the counter, and no power in the middle of the pitch? It’s not a surprise Arsenal got smashed 21-3 to the top five teams on the road. It was easy. Press the midfield with no fear of being hit on the counter. Done and done. Four of the five games essentially settled by halftime.

    Here’s the thing: If someone wants to argue that despite Wenger’s flaws, he is still the man for the job, I can understand the argument. I don’t agree with it, but I understand it. But the Baghdad Bob-level 100 percent refusal to see the obvious flaws at the club is just crazy. In life, things are rarely black or white. They are usually some shade of grey. All folks who think the owner and manager are hurting the club are not AAA. And defending the manager 100 percent and blaming losses on referees and injuries (as if he has NO role in them) is equally silly.

    Try thinking. It’s a good thing.

  • bob

    This doesn’t mean much in itself, but Dein, Sr., was shown at today’s match at Goodison. I would wish and do think that he and Arsene will be having a very honest post-game analytic session on what needs to be done at many levels.

  • Yassin

    Congrats Damilaire, great news in a really sad times, that will take the sadness away a bit. Raise him/her to become the next Gooner. Congrats again.

  • Pat

    Mandy, didn’t realise that about Everton and Liverpool having their best ever runs in the PL. That IS bad luck!

  • Damilare

    Thanks Pat and Mandy. Yeah mother, baby and father are all ok. Btw I missed UA.

    Bring on the next match on Saturday. And if the wishes of our ‘true’ fans come to pass by losing to the giant-killing wigan, they will rush on here to say ‘we told you so, wenger out etc’, I will be here to say bring on the next match. But if we beat wigan…the sandpapers will be very sad. Good for them

    COYG

  • Damilare

    Thanks Yassin. Gonner indeed he is. Don’t worry too much about the sad times because good times are just around the corner for our club. Atlthough it won’t stop the sandpapers from negativities.

    COYG

  • bjtgooner

    Congratulations Damilare, some good news on an otherwise bad day.

  • HOME AND AWAY

    Another bad day at the office ? LOL one of you actually said that – Well I had a bad day at the office driving 12 hours round trip to watch Arsene’s squad,tactics,selection and motivation of a group of players who clearly don’t believe in his legend in the way you wacko’s do LOL
    It’s like one flew over the cuckoo’s nest in here but god bless all you nut-cases because it’s endless entertainment unlike the garbage being served up by your Guru Swami W at the moment .

  • Micheal Ram

    Walter,

    Please block these idiots. These morons dont know a pint about this blog, dont know a shit about Arsenal FC and certainly dont know a damn about football. Just stop wasting your time.

  • Natanael

    Walter,

    I agree with you. Loans in the same league shouldn’t be allowed. Unfortunately, bad refereeing is a big problem here in Brazil too. Despite all the adversities, I keep having faith in Arsenal’s recovery.

  • Jesse Sapolu

    We were a full bag of shit today…..

    No point in barbing the players…..they need us to stick with them

    When season ends then we can have the post mortems and accountability debates.

    One thing…I hope that THEO, OZIL and RAMSEY are ready for the EPl in Auguest…

    COYG!

  • Duane Fowler

    Man Alive!

    Please admit that the players no longer have the hunger to play for Le Boss.

    If we win the FACUP, it will be like that tosser Sherwood said “papering over the cracks”.

    I think Le Boss will walk away after this season. And the new guy (whoever he is) will spalsh the cash mindlessly and throw away the legacy of Le Boss. What a waste.

    In Arsene I Trust

    Duane

  • Gord

    OT:

    What might be a good thing to acquire, is some kind of index (statistic) about referee complaints for each game. Is there a difference in referee complaints in the news, about games over the season. For example, if at the 3/4 mark pundits (a different way to spell idiot) suddenly lose the ability to complain about referees involving the top 2 teams from northern England.

    I’m disappointed about the loss. I can’t stand the AAA presence in that kind of situation, so I am gone for a while. I am all for doing better the next game. And I didn’t see indications of Arsenal injuries today, so hopefully we are stronger for the next game.

    COYG!

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Damilare – Congratulations on the new arrival and best wishes .

  • Brickfields Gunners

    This is an old one which is quite funny and true ; but it becomes even funnier when you change the people mentioned here with the AAAA ,dickheads ,arseholes ,know-it-alls and smart alecks that are trolling on this site .
    Try it , its hilarious !

    The Mathematics of Life

    http://www.ba-bamail.com/Content.aspx?emailid=9371&memberid=763708#.U0ISu6K6ETE

    In school, we learn a lot of useless math. However, in the school of life, there are some formulas that may hold true! So here are some interesting mathematical formulas from the school of life!
    ROMANCE MATHEMATICS

    Smart man + Smart woman = Romance
    Smart man + Dumb woman = Affair
    Dumb man + Smart woman = Marriage
    Dumb man + Dumb woman = Pregnancy

    OFFICE ARITHMETIC

    Smart boss + Smart employee = Profit
    Smart boss + Dumb employee = Production
    Dumb boss + Smart employee = Promotion
    Dumb boss + Dumb employee = Overtime

    SHOPPING MATH

    A man will pay $2 for a $1 item he needs.
    A woman will pay $1 for a $2 item that she doesn’t need.

    General Formulas:

    HAPPINESS

    To be happy with a man, you must understand him a lot and love him a little.
    To be happy with a woman, you must love her a lot and not try to understand her at all.

    LONGEVITY

    Married men live longer than single men,
    but married men are a lot more willing to die.

    PROPENSITY TO CHANGE

    A woman marries a man expecting he will change,
    but he doesn’t.
    A man marries a woman expecting that she won’t change,
    but she does.

    GENERAL EQUATIONS & STATISTICS

    A woman worries about the future until she gets a husband.
    (Then she worries about the husband…)
    A man never worries about the future until he gets a wife.

    A successful man is one who makes more money than his wife can spend.
    A successful woman is one who finds such a man.

    DISCUSSION TECHNIQUE

    A woman has the last word in any argument.
    Anything a man says after that is the beginning of a new argument.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Make Your Influence Positive – children see , children do..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOrGsB4qG_w

  • Arvind

    HaHa thanks Brickfields – those were some nice quotes : ). As for the game, the comments on this thread are terrible (sadly) and I , much like Gord will just steer clear for a while. Anyway..I havent yet seen the game – I hardly have watched anything in the last 2 years… apart from the ones I reviewed : (

  • chibyke-nija

    Wow…. No matter how bad @untold will still somehow dredge up positivity. Its a skill like no other I tell ya. On why people visit her after a defeat? Ur posts after a defeat are d exact of Wenger’s post match conferences”we f#*%ked up but we move on to the next game” I believe u have a philosophy to uphold here cos I don’t believe u believe what u spew here somethings. But then again say something over and over and u may believe it. I look fwd to what u will blog when Wenger finally leaves.

  • WalterBroeckx

    GoonerInNY,

    a few answers. You have misread my words or misinterpreted them. I don’t blame 50% of the losses on the refs. could be more also 😉 No I blamed 50% of the injuries on the refs.
    And that comes from the statistics I have got and have written articles about in the last weeks over the last 10 years.

    Walcott: I think you missed the unpunished kicking he got just before he went down.

    Name me any striker that can replace Walcott and lets go for him. I don’t know any to be honest. Walcott is Walcott and there is no second like him. And besides if there was a second one: was his club willing to let him go?
    Maybe we asked around but got a no as answer. We could hijack a player of course but I don’t think the authorities will agree with that way of doing.

    Mind you I do agree with the need for speed in our attack. But the only speedy front players that are good enough I know are playing for Liverpool and City. So you think they would have let them go (Pool) and you think we would have the money to buy/pay them? (City?)

  • WalterBroeckx

    Congratulations Damilare!!

  • Brickfields Gunners

    I had been curiously depressed all day. In the night I wakened.
    First precise thought: I know why I’m depressed–nothing inspired is going on.
    Second: I demand that life be inspired every moment. Third: the only way to guarantee this is to have inspired conversation every moment.
    Fourth: most people never get so far as conversation; they haven’t the stamina, and there is no time.
    Fifth: if I had a magazine I could spend my time filling it up with the best conversation the world has to offer. Sixth: marvelous idea–salvation.
    Seventh: decision to do it.
    Deep sleep.

    Margaret Anderson

  • Rupert Cook

    Berbatov, back up striker was available for little money in January and just as good as Giroud.

    Give Liverpool 60 million for Suarez last summer instead of buying Ozil. We’d probably not be in this situation yet again and Liverpool certainly wouldn’t be top of the league.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Today’s word is ‘ wallow ‘.

    wal·low

    verb (used without object)

    1. to roll about or lie in water, snow, mud, dust, or the like, as for refreshment: Goats wallowed in the dust.
    2.to live self-indulgently; luxuriate; revel: to wallow in luxury; to wallow in sentimentality.
    3.to flounder about; move along or proceed clumsily or with difficulty: A gunboat wallowed toward port.
    4.to surge up or billow forth, as smoke or heat: Waves of black smoke wallowed into the room.

    noun

    5.an act or instance of wallowing.
    6. a place in which animals wallow: hog wallow; an elephant wallow.
    7. the indentation produced by animals wallowing: a series of wallows across the farmyard.

    Synonyms –
    stagger
    blunder
    delight
    immerse
    stumble
    pamper
    relish

    Matching Quote
    “It is the mark of a mean, vulgar and ignoble spirit to dwell on the thought of food before meal times or worse to dwell on it afterwards, to discuss it and wallow in the remembered pleasures of every mouthful. Those whose minds dwell before dinner on the spit, and after on the dishes, are fit only to be scullions.”
    -Francis De Sales, Saint

  • SurferX

    This comment is not being published, as explained below.

    —————————-

    Surfer: thank you for another long piece.

    I know it is tough keeping track of what one has said, and the mind does decay somewhat as one gets old. Goodness me I know that, for as I have occasionally confessed I have been watching Arsenal since the late 1950s.

    But even so, I think if one is going to post a comment one ought to remember what one said in the last comment. If I may remind you…

    Im going to leave Untold now- I shan’t darken the doors again.

    Tony.

  • WalterBroeckx

    By the way I like the ‘humour’ of Arsenal.com

    The link to the highlights of the match is usually filled with a freeze frame. They left it black this time. (or at least for the moment)

  • Rupert Cook

    Poor old Surfer X. I guess he imagined that in a democracy people were allowed to change their minds. Not on here mate, it’s rigidity personified.

  • Damilare

    Bjtgooner, Brickfields Gunners and Walter – thanks a lot. And Brickfields Gunners thanks again for the equations.

    COYG

  • WalterBroeckx

    Rupert,
    There is no democracy on the internet.

    Untold Arsenal is written for a certain audience. And when those responsible for chasing away that audience are banned then this is to make sure that our audience will feel at home here and will feel at home in the future.
    This site was set up to counter the negativity around Arsenal and Wenger. This is clear for all.
    So no need to disrupt this.
    I don’t go to Le Grove and post comments over there. And most of our readers don’t. As most of them have been banned there. So they found our site as a new home until “they” came along and tried to make Untold to a light Le Grove.

    So forgive us for not letting it come that far.

  • Shard

    Well, I stayed away from the blogs yesterday and it certainly helps to do that. Because you already know the comments that will follow. It isn’t an observation with them, it is a campaign. ‘Don’t know what our problems are, don’t know why we get injuries, don’t know anything in-depth, but I know the solution. Sack Wenger!. That should work.’.

    As for the game, we were terrible. Arteta and Flamini had poor games. Monreal, although good in his positioning, was sometimes too easy to get past. Everton had everything go their way as well. Whether it be just pure dumb luck in where the ball bounced for them, or it be getting away with countless fouls. We couldn’t get anything to get us going. No piece of luck, no wrong call in our favour (quite the opposite) and no piece of inspiration from any player.

    We are clearly a team shorn of confidence. Injuries have played their part, but we are not as bad as we are constantly made to feel. How long are the players expected to keep fighting against being told they are ‘shit’? The manager can combat it with feeding them positive messages, but then when it doesn’t work he is also expected to get tough.

    This is not an excuse. The team have to cope with whatever pressure is put on them, no matter how unreasonable. But surely as fans we have to show the same fortitude. After every loss this season, we’ve either been subjected to remarks about how useless we are, or when we were doing well, how the title is gone now. And of course the standard line of Wenger out when things don’t go exactly as hoped. Does this atmosphere of negativity help the team? And yet, if the team wins, excuses are made to explain how they just got lucky.

    Anyway.. I’m not following the negative nellies down their rabbit hole of misery. All the same, we need the team to show some spark. And quickly. We’ve had a very poor run of form, but we need to find ourselves, because we are better than this. Fight for every ball, every header, every tackle, every goal. Forget injuries, forget the negativity, forget the fear of an unfavourable outcome Even forget the referee. Let him do something drastic to stop us if it comes to it, and still beat him. Just. Go. Win.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Job well Tony , thanks for keeping those ‘sane’ types out . Just cannot understand why some of these posters keep coming here again and again (especially after losses ) to preach to us .
    They already know that most of us are insane ,deluded and most probably beyond redemption .as to our support for AW and Arsenal !
    Save yourselves by not coming here ,unless you want in into what we are smoking!
    Who ever heard of ‘sane’ people trying to break in into an asylum ?

  • Jax

    It’s a shame that SurferX made that parting statement, as he was one of the few (literate posters) who challenged the party line on UA. Give him another chance please Tony.

  • Shard

    Jax

    Nothing against having different views, (although there is no one party line on untold. They get challenged even by the regulars. Just not disrespected) and I wouldn’t be against even Surfer X being brought back. I don’t read his comments anymore. Because I don’t believe he was genuine in his desire to discuss. He kept twisting my words in an attempt to discredit me, and would ignore any fact (or more likely laugh at you for bringing it up) that didn’t go with his narrative. To me, he was a literate, but determined troll and nothing else.

  • Shard

    Oh and forgot to say this… Martin Atkinson does not deserve to be a referee.

  • Max

    Bring that suffer X back.. Now

  • Shard

    You forgot to add EIE… 😛

    Also, suffer X is strangely apt 🙂

  • Mandy Dodd

    You are right Shard, there is a campaign out there. Think we might be surprised if we ever found out some behind it, but then again, maybe not. There are times we get bad decisions, injuries, and lately in several games, just don’t get the friggin bounce of the ball. There are times we don’t help ourselves, we have played much too open formations in some of these games, we seems to have lost our defensive solidity at times. We don’t fully know the reasons, nor do we know a fraction of what goes on, but just got to back to team, players are coming back who will add fresh energy and drive to a bunch of players who have basically run out of gas.
    Blame, if there is any, solutions, and there will be, and all these things can wait until the summer. Not to heap pressure on him, but the likes of Ramsey, if he stays fit can save the latter part of the season, we saw evidence of that yesterday.
    The campaign will get worse, they scent blood now.

  • Shard

    Mandy

    More than them, I worry about the referees. I mean, firstly, the team need to perform well.. That is a given.. But sometimes, even that doesn’t prove enough. referees are one such factor not in our control.

    If Arsenal win all their remaining games, I reckon their campaign will not be very effective. For that, we need to play well, and referees need to not screw us over. But like I said before. We just need to win. Every game, every moment in every game. If the players want the manager to stay they have to go out and fight for him and for each other.

  • Rupert Cook

    @Walter, no democracy, of course not, but you could be a shining example of largesse. As it is it seems all Surfer X said was he wouldn’t darken this site again. Hardly insulting is it? But I suspect his logical arguments disturbed some. And the fact that he made Shard angry.

    I expect he was angry with our capitulation. Wenger is a spent force, he just can’t outwit any decent team that turns up with a plan. Of the teams in the top half of the table we have only beaten two of them. 7 pts out of a possible twenty seven. And that’s nothing to do with Wenger? Of course not, it’s just an accident. Out of the top six the only one we’ve beaten at home is Liverpool. Is this progress?

    When Ian Wright played for Arsenal he said Wenger said very little to the players in the dressing room and he didn’t concentrate on tactics. So what the hell did he do? According to Wright he just let the players get on with it which is fine when you’ve got a team of fighters and a leader or two but this team seems to have neither. The only time they look assured is when they’re playing teams in the bottom half of the table.

    During a game Wenger just sits there as if he’s in a trance. He might occasionally remonstrate with an official but he seems at a loss what to do when the team is up against it.

  • Rupert Cook

    Of the teams in the top half at home we have only beaten two of them, i meant.

  • Shard

    Yes Rupert X

    It doesn’t matter that Nigel Winterburn and Ray Parlour talked about when tactics would be discussed, how the build up to games would be precise. No, Wenger doesn’t do tactics, is an easy mantra. Also, we’d be much better off employing someone who shows PASSHUN..like Tim Sherwood. He is a Gooner after all.

    Ok..Forgetting the sarcasm (Some parts of your post deserved it). The away losses to the better teams have been worrying. I am struggling to understand it because we are better than what we’ve shown then. ManCity, we had less recovery time, and I thought we still played well, except making some stupid defensive errors at just the wrong times. Liverpool, we conceded very early (slightly unlucky) but then showed no organisation to keep the score manageable enough to make a comeback. The Chelsea away game was just completely useless. And now yesterday.

    Let’s be clear, this is not the same. Everton are a form team flying high, with fewer injuries than us, playing at home. Sure, we should be better than we were. Not arguing there. But a loss to them is not a terribly unexpected result if you look at the qualities of the two teams, and the way they got the rub of the green. So, the result in itself isn’t all that worrying. The performance however, is.

    One factor, which needs further exploration, is th kick-off time (Don’t roll your eyes) We’ve played all the top 5 away from home in an early kickoff. Again reverting to the Ray Parlour and Winterburn interview, they talked about how everything including meals were at specific times for a 3PM kickoff. Perhaps it really isn’t easy to manage it properly for an early kickoff. A look at seasons past might explain whether there is any effect. Certainly no other team has played all their tough away games at early kick off times.

    Be that is it may. I agree it is a worry. I disagree with your completely confident assertion that Wenger’s ‘a spent force’.

    – With utmost sincerity and regret for having had your friend Surfer Cook banned.
    The Evil Shard.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    AAAA : Doctor, I get the feeling that people don’t give a hoot about anything I say.
    Psychiatrist: So?

    Three patients in a mental institution prepare for an examination given by the head psychiatrist. If the patients pass the exam, they will be free to leave the hospital. However, if they fail, the institution will detain them for five years.

    The doctor takes the three patients to the top of a diving board looking over an empty swimming pool, and asks the first patient to jump.

    The first patient jumps head first into the pool and breaks both arms.

    Then the second patient jumps and breaks both legs.

    The third patient looks over the side and refuses to jump. “Congratulations! You’re a free man. Just tell me why didn’t you jump?” asked the doctor.

    To which the third patient answered, “Well Doc, I can’t swim!”

  • WalterBroeckx

    Rupert,
    I was banned from Le Grove for asking people to not resort to name calling of our own players.
    I think we have been very liberal about our own ‘laws’ on the site.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Missing something ?

    There were two guys working for the city. One would dig a hole — he would dig, dig, dig.
    The other would come behind him and fill the hole — fill, fill, fill. These two men worked furiously; one digging a hole, the other filling it up again.
    A man was watching from the sidewalk and couldn’t believe how hard these men were working, but couldn’t understand what they were doing. Finally he had to ask them.
    He said to the hole digger, “I appreciate how hard you work, but what are you doing? You dig a hole and your partner comes behind you and fills it up again!”
    The hole digger replied, “Oh yeah, must look funny, but the guy who plants the trees is sick today.”

  • Brickfields Gunners

    QUESTION: Why does the town idiot take his bedroom door off the hinges and put it to the side every night when he goes to sleep?
    ANSWER: Because he’s afraid someone would look through the keyhole.

    A man enters a barber shop for a shave. While the barber is foaming him up, he mentions the problems he has getting a close shave around the cheeks.

    “I have just the thing,” says the barber taking a small wooden ball from a nearby drawer. “Just place this between your cheek and gum.”

    The client places the ball in his mouth and the barber proceeds with the closest shave the man has ever experienced. After a few strokes the client asks in garbled speech.

    “And what if I swallow it?”

    “No problem,” says the barber. “Just bring it back tomorrow like everyone else does.”

  • para

    Everyone mentions Arsenal’s playing style.
    Well, for me Arsenal’s playing style was a good way of playing, but that style is non-existent today, at least at Arsenal. All(most) of the other teams now play like Arsenal did, what Arsenal is doing now, i really do not know.
    People talk about our speed, well Everton and others showed us that we are a tortoise (this season) at the moment.
    Watching Arsenal over the last 5 seasons is embarrassing and anyone who denies this is deluding themselves.

    With all this said, (i could say more, but most already said), Arsenal is now firmly at the crossroads, and there is no where else to go until decisions are made. I’m sure they are aware of that.

    Arsene Wenger, i think, will leave Arsenal or move up at the end of this season if we lose out in the FA Cup, on the other hand, if we manage to win it, he will stay at Arsenal.

    I do not want Arsene Wenger out at all, but i think now that if he loves Arsenal like i think he does, he will stay at Arsenal, BUT he will move up to a different position in the club. Why not some economic type job, for this is his strength.

    For Arsenal to move forward, we now need a new coach, who is going to bring new ideas and purpose to Arsenal to move us forward. Sadly i cannot see any one taking the job if Arsene Wenger is still at Arsenal, they will be too in fear of not having complete control of the team.

    BUT, what ever happens, Arsenal is still my team.
    I hope to live to see (and be able to enjoy) Arsenal make their place as one of the top teams in football again.

    This is my last dream (besides world peace, that is, ha).

  • Rupert Cook

    @Walter, well seeing as there seems to be a remarkable amount of abuse of all and sundry on Le Grove I find it hard to believe they ban anyone. They probably got tired of your positivity!

    @Shard, I’m afraid I really think Wenger needs to move on. We’ve had this season after season of squeezing by. It was understandable when we were behind the money teams but now we have Pool leaving us behind and Everton quite possibly finishing above us. There seems to be a complete lack of spark and imagination in our team. The manager seems to think that passing the ball sideways and waiting patiently for opponents to crumble is the way to win games. In too many important games the team has looked devoid of ideas. The fight has vanished from some players. Ramsey makes a difference when he comes on but it’s not good when your younger players seem to be the only ones with any definite purpose.

    There is a distinct lack of pace and very little grit. Watching the team you actually wonder if the players believe in what they’re doing or maybe their confidence is shot. That’s not surprising after being thrashed by Pool and Chelsea. What’s disturbing is that similar tactics are employed as if nothing has been learned. I wonder if Wenger thinks the players are better than they really are and expects them to just come good eventually. I am beyond understanding Wenger or many of our players. I can’t recall watching an Arsenal team with so little fight, even when we were stuffed with average players in the 80’s there was a lot more passion in the team.

    I didn’t expect us to beat Everton, I was hoping for a draw at least but suspected we’d lose. I can see these sort of results becoming more regular as long as Wenger stays and he sticks with his Barca lite football. Someone should send him a video of the 98 team to remind him just how great a team could be under his management.

    And Wenger looks increasingly startled when we get trounced as if he hasn’t a solution. If he hasn’t then why is he still manager?

    I imagine even if we finish fifth and we don’t win the FA Cup Wenger will still be here but unless he starts spending money on better players, whoever heard of a team with our pedigree with one so so striker?, then support for him will continue to dwindle. One Ozil does not make a title challenging team.

    So bring on Wigan, let’s see if this team can pick itself up.

  • para

    Sorry, forgot this:

    Forced positivity is just as dangerous as continued negativity.
    OR put in another way:
    Forced happiness is just as bad as continued unhappiness.

    We have to learn to swim between the two poles without getting stuck at one or the other, for when we get stuck, there is a loss of BALANCE and the ability to swim through our emotions like we are supposed to do, we get STUCK in a groove, like a needle on a turntable record.

    So if you happy, be happy til it goes.
    If you sad be sad til it goes.

    I’m SAD right now and will be until it goes.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Rupert,
    Well I had hardly commented 3 times before I asked them not to do the name calling. And the people that were in the line of fire were Fabregas and Van Persie. That was in 2008 by the way.

  • Shard

    Rupert Cook

    Don’t disagree with a lot of what you say. I believe we’re seeing a team which is almost close to being the team Wenger wants them to be (Yes, One Ozil is not enough) and next year is when it gets there. We know he wanted a top striker ( Suarez- easy to say in hindsight to spend 60m. The reason no one like Chelsea or Real Madrid came in for him even at 40m is that it was a major gamble that only Arsenal were willing to take) And we know he tried to sign a defensive midfielder. Bender and Gustavo. Wenger paid 13m for Sylvain Wiltord. He paid 10.5 m for Henry (in the days when that was big money) He’s not afraid to spend. He’s been cautious of it do to the stadium spend (and not wanting to have more ‘deadwood’ at the club anymore. We’re shopping at a different level now.)

    Next season is when the stadium starts paying off. All the commercial deals online. More to follow.

    Also, I think the examples of Liverpool and Everton are misplaced. They have nothing to hang on to. They’ve been aiming to get the spot we already occupy. Arsenal need to hang on to that, as well as progress. So we can’t make radical changes because they can go either way. Liverpool and Everton can. (and hope that it pays off) because they have nothing to lose.

    These issues, doing everything the same way, I see it as a function of that. We can’t risk the unknown, and we expect to be much better next season and need to have an established plan to build on rather than just switch things about.

    However, the players do need to show a response. So does the manager. And Wigan is an absolute must win. It’s been a weird season. One of undeniable progress. And yet, the feeling of decline. (mostly due to a few heavy defeats) It can only be judged once it’s over. An FA Cup win and a top 4 would be progress in my opinion, and something to build on. But before we think of that, it’s one game at a time and the team to show some fight.

  • Mick

    @Shard 8.28am
    I fully agree with your comments especially regarding the team being dragged down by negative influence from media etc. I posted similar sentiments (Mick
    April 6, 2014 at 8:04 pm) myself. If you keep telling a child he is useless he will begin to believe it and act accordingly, it’s a well known and accepted fact. Imagine what it is like for a group of players (some not much older than kids) who are, both collectively and individually, being humiliated, insulted and rubbished on a daily basis and in the public domain as on Talk sport to give one glaring example. Negative reinforcement is a powerful weapon and difficult to fight against but somehow we must help the team overcome and counteract it by giving full support wherever possible, and that includes right here in the blogosphere.
    Sadly, the only good thing that would come from Arsene Wenger leaving the club would be the end of the negativity as I think it is directed more at him than the club itself. Could you imagine Redknapp and his players for example being treated the same way if he was at Arsenal.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Anyone else think, that if Wenger is staying, he may as well just come out and say it and be damned ..and damned he will be…it may settle players who could have concerns on their future? They really did not look right yesterday on a number of levels, that was a serious underperformance full of uncertainty, almost as if the teams are conspiring to do the PGMOLs dirty work for them!
    Of course if Wenger has elected not to stay, another matter completely, that in itself could be putting a lot of pressure on them, depending on what they do or dont know.
    Uncertainty can be unsettling, and many sportsmen dont like being unsettled, some may subconsciously use it as an excuse.
    That, and some have run out of gas

  • bjtgooner

    When the results are not going well that’s when it is important for the fans to stick by the team & manager, to show confidence and support and by so doing help them turn it around. This is not forced positivity – it is standing by your club.

    To back-stab the team and manager shows either a very weak character or an opportunistic deliberate undermining of the club.

    It would appear that the crescendo of anti team, manager & owner comments that have come out of the underworld are part of a major effort to remove our manager – before additional money becomes available to strengthen the team – because once that happens this still very good team will be at the top of the EPL almost continuously. Lets remember our team needs to good enough to beat the opposition and their twelfth man. (The invinciples 50 could failed to beat Riley and the manures!)

    I welcome the disappearance of SurferX, one of the most arrogant of the AAA types. It is strange since the demise of the Surfer the rupert has become much more vociferous – just to make sure the AAA get their negative fix? Or a substitute?

    When there is too much negativity & nastiness coming through from the ruperts and others of similar ilk it makes very difficult for everyone else to concentrate and debate problems – e.g. if a comment is made (in innocence) about a player not marking properly, that comment would be seized on by the AAA and exploited.

    @brickfields, thanks for the jokes this morning, they help everyone to keep their spirits up! But I have learned from a previous mistake – made sure the breakfast was well down before reading!

  • Edu

    last season i’d predicted things would turn ugly for wenger if he remained complacent to happenings at arsenal.his performances ,that of the squad,the clubs hierarchy are wanting to say the least.no more excuses can one come up with no matter how loyal you are in support of the club or in the case of this site ,the manager.
    wenger has shown an immense desire in the clubs finances which i think is his downfall because his first job is that of football coach.his economics background is blurring his football acumen.
    reasons of referees,injuries etc,etc have been bandied around for years now and one natural asks themselves why do this supposed only happen to arsenal.
    wenger is an institution within an institution,there lies another conundrum.
    with utmost respect to wenger its time to allow a fresh start for arsenal.it would be hard for some in particular to swallow but its neccesary for arsenals future.

  • Shard

    Mick

    I think I disagree with that. Redknapp wouldn’t be subjected to that because he’s one of those that toe the line. Also, he’s never going to be good enough to make Arsenal into a force.

    With Wenger and Arsenal, many reasons have been given such as being a southern club, more traditionally hated as the first truly successful southern club, Wenger’s nationality etc. All of these might play a part, but I don’t think I have ever believed it is down to these factors. At least not what we’ve been seeing these past few years.

    I think I am in closer agreement with bjtgooner when he says removing Wenger is just the first step in a campaign affecting Arsenal’s future. It seems to have reduced to some extent now (because they don’t need it) but there really was an aspect of Arsenal being bullied by referees and the media about not spending big etc. and Wenger being stubborn. Although recently the media is admitting Wenger had very little money to spend in the past, but in the backstage somewhere, there still is a takeover battle going on. I think it is more to do with that than anything else (unless the league’s corruption is also a factor)

  • Rupert Cook

    @Shard, I can’t fathom what’ll happen next. In theory we’ve got an easier run in than Everton but I can’t see where the goals we need will come from. Maybe Ramsey if he can keep fit for the rest of the season. All our home games should be victories but then I thought we’d beat Swansea. The toughest away game is Hull who we shouldn’t underestimate but hopefully they’ll be safe from relegation and saving themselves for the cup final, if they beat Sheffield Utd.

    It could all go down to the last game of the season against Norwich. A team beginning with N again to decide if we get the CL next year. Not the easiest place to go despite how poor Norwich are.

    As for Wigan in the cup, how crazy to feel worried about facing a championship team. If you’re superstitious we have had some terrible results against dreadful teams beginning with W, Walsall and Wrexham. Nicky might remember the first.

  • Shard

    Rupert

    None of that superstitious poppycock..

    We Worry Way too much With Wegards to Wigan, Wrexham and Walsall.. We Were Woolwich at one point of time. We left the W’s behind. 🙂

    I don’t think I’m worried per se about Wigan. It’s illuminating that these days I am more worried about the inevitable reaction to anything that goes against Arsenal, leave alone a loss.

    However, I want us to win, and to play well. I am worried because we look a team short on confidence. We might take the FA Cup as added pressure or a welcome release from the league form and a chance to win a trophy. You are right to worry about goals, but I am more concerned about our lack of defensive discipline recently. We need to defend better because we aren’t the free flowing team we sometimes pretend to be. Not with the injuries we’ve had. And if we concede first, we often tend to panic (probably because we know we find it tough to score right now)

    But a focused committed performance from every player should be enough to see us through.

  • Jax

    Rupert & Shard

    I’m worried about Wigan. Very worried in fact. They’ll have seen how we caved in against the likes of Liverpool, Southampton & Everton and just come at with speed right from the off. Not sure though if they’re capable of doing this as I haven’t seen them this season, but am sure that will be a tactic they’ll consider. Glad Ramsey’s back though. He’ll be a big influence as he slotted in perfectly yesterday.

  • bjtgooner

    Come on Jax, keep your pecker up. We can win this.

    We have gone through a difficult patch with too many injuries to key players and other players needing a rest, but with the return of some walking wounded our team morale and confidence will improve. We will play well next w/e.

    Wigan will try to be very physical and the fans must get on Oliver’s back from the off & let him think he is at the Emirates!

  • para

    Mandy Dodd says:
    ” A lot of Things will change this summer. We need to just back the team to get into the top four , hopefully with an FA Cup, and for me at least, get wengers signature…and let the club do some work this summer, have a feeling we may be surprised”.

    This i agree with wholeheartedly at least up to getting Wengers’ signature. At this time i am unsure as to why he is stalling. If he loves Arsenal, (i’m sure he does) then why stall? Sign the thing and go forward. The stalling really irritates me.

    This summer market looks like it is going to be the last one for Arsene Wenger if the club does not move forward in transfers, changes and making our team as good as the other top teams when it comes to class, ability and multi-dimensionality.

    What i would really like to see, is that we manage (?) to win the FA cup, bring players in to build the squad ability and incentive up, and (i really think this next part) move Wenger up to deal with the Arsenal economics and get a new coach for the team.

    On the last part of Mandy’s post, that we are all going to be surprised, this is agree with, what ever happens, there must be CHANGES this summer, and these changes are going to surprise us.

    //
    On another matter, I have a fear of ARSENAL moving to the USA, their football is growing fast, they are doing much to encourage it and make it a bigger sport in USA. I don’t know where this thought came from, but it appeared in my head a few days ago. It may seem silly right now, but it is not an improbable scenario.

  • AL

    Mandy,
    Not sure what thread this was but don’t know if you recall me (I ask you because we briefly discussed this last week after the City match) saying the stage is set, and to expect Steven Gerard to score another 6 or 7 goals(all penalties) till the end of the season? I think in the same post I also stated those with influence now wanted Liverpool to win and Everton to knock us out of the top 4. I’m standing by that; yesterday he scored two controversial penalties to give Liverpool the win they needed to go back top. And I’m willing to bet my last penny he will get another 4 before May 11, and I’m not psychic.

    Why can’t people see these fixes from a mile away?

  • TommieGun

    Tony/Walter,

    I think that Untold is a point of light in all the cyber-darkness around us.

    It gives perspective, when much needed, and usually some very original thinking.

    It is written and maintained by people who care a lot about AFC, and invest tons of time in research (which was not done by anyone else).

    So in light of the very positive foregoing, I personally find it disturbing that there are a few individuals who post here regularly, who behave like bullies.

    I thought, that Untold was not Le Grove – not just the content, but the way.

    And I am sad to say it deteriorates. Mind you, it is NOT ok to call people who think differntly then you, “rats”. It is not ok to use Stalinstic narratives. It is not ok to use Goebbles-like language.

    I am reading BJT’s post of 10:35, and I am saddened. I am saddened, that nobody here, not a single poster, let alone Tony or Walter, tell this guy that he had crossed the line (and in my humble opinion, quite some time ago).

    Tony/Walter – don’t let a bully do the dirty work for you. There is a right way to do things, and you know it. The end does not justify the means and even if you have a point to prove (which you do) and even if you are generally against the world (which you are). I really thought that this site was better in that sense.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Al,
    Yesterday I left the TV on and started watching WHU-Liverpool.
    My conclusion is that the PL (Scudamore words in my head) wants to do all they can to set up a grand finale.
    By the absence of MU, the PL favourites, sorry people’s favourite (cough, cough) they want to make sure that there will be 3 teams who can take it on the last day of the season.
    And then it will be up to the teams on the last day to do it. That is of course if non of them suddenly hits a patch of bad form. And even then they will do all they can to make sure it happens like that.

    And who the hell has given Anthony Taylor a fifa badge? And Probert? Only an imbecile can be responsible for that. Oh that’s right it should be Mr. Riley head of the PGMOL who did this… of course….

  • bjtgooner

    @TommieGun

    Are you sure you are not the bully? You seem quite happy with the negative and nasty comments against our manager and team, but only object when the negative contributors are called out. Are you inflicted with partiality?

    Further, I don’t think I used the term “rat” in my post @ 10.35 this morning, nor did I use any Satanic or Gobbles like expressions, but, as you have previously advised us that you are an excellent attorney and as such consider yourself superior to everyone else, I will be happy to view your corrections.

  • AL

    Walter
    That’s certainly possible, given their (the PL people) recent comments bemoaning the demise of United as having the potential to hurt the PL brand, letting it go to the wire will certainly create huge interest and be good for the brand.

    I feel while Liverpool have been in good form recently, they’re about to hit a bad patch and they’ll probably be carried towards or over the line by the officials, perhaps to keep things exciting as you say. They didn’t deserve 3 points from yesterday’s game definitely. And I expect, if they’re still in it, they’ll get more favorable decisions when they meet City and Chelsea just to keep it going. And I agree the standard of refereeing on show yesterday was comical to say the least.

  • Rupert Cook

    @Jax, that Wigan manager Rosler seems quite good. Did well at Brentford and seems to be doing well at Wigan. Sometimes think we have a psychological problem against the better teams. This shouldn’t apply to Wigan.

    @Shard, well the defence is a worry too and you’re right we’re certainly not very free flowing. I’d like to see a start like the one against Bayern when we flew at them and took them by surprise.

    The only W I want is the one that stands for WON. We’ve had enough D’s and L’s lately.

    Must admit I’m excited about us being in an FA Cup semi final again. I used to take FA Cup Final appearances for granted in the early 2000’s, it’d be good to feel that way again in the next few years.

  • Gooner S

    Most of the time, when you are beaten, you take it on the chin, keep quiet, regroup and come again the following week. So that’s what I’m doing. Bemoaning the performance of a referee, however right or wrong, just looks like sour grapes immediately after a 3 – 0 loss. Arsenal were poor.Beaten by the better team.

  • TommieGun

    @ BJT I am not happy at any comments, and as I know you, you would have quickly pointed out to any comment made by me which might suggest otherwise.

    I hope you are not contending that you did not use the term “rat” in the past, as clearly I was not contending that your 10:35 post is your only offensive, KGB style, Stalinstic (and not Satanic) post.

    My profession is of course irrelvant to this discussion, and I think it would be appropriate that you disclose yours, if you think otherwise.

    Please remind me where I wrote that I was superior to anyone.

    I think that you know very well that I comment whenever I think people are out of line. Actually, I think that I comment more when people talk negative nonsense like Giroud is shit”, but never make comments like “wenger out”, “we need to sign X”, etc. On the contrary. I would be happy if you find anything of that sort.

    However, I do believe in freedom of expression, and I do believe that the vast majority of the people here are true Arsenal supporters, which see things differently. They are not here to “backstab” the club, nor the manager. Some of them support the club for a very long time. Some of them hold season tickets for a very long time. Some of them know a thing or two about football. When they express themselves in an intelligent way, I want to hear them. I want to hear them HERE, not on Le Grove.

    Mind you – this site is supposed to be BETTER. Your kind of people are making it as bad as the other one sided sites.

  • Max

    Arsenal’s performances this season have largely been unconvincing. There have of course been a few games where we’ve been superb (the 2-0 wins over Napoli and Liverpool spring to mind) but by and large we’ve flattered to deceive, and have mostly gotten by on a solid defence and strong individual performances. When one or the other, or recently both, desert us, we find ourselves at sea and unable to cope with anyone. There just seems to be a complete lack of identity at Arsenal.Looking at the relative successes of Everton and Liverpool this season, it’s easy to see why they have been successful. Martinez and Rodgers have communicated a way they want their team to play, and they’ve done so excellently. To put it quite simply, Wenger hasn’t. We’re a team without the pace to counter-attack, without the creativity or the movement to open teams up, and without the runners to even effectively utilise a target man. Instead, we’ve got some of each and not enough of any, and it’s part of why we’ve suffered so much without Ramsey – he’s versatile enough to make up for a lot of the shortcomings in Arsenal’s play.This lack of identity isn’t an accident either, and is an inevitable consequence of Arsenal’s recent activity in the transfer market. Arteta and Mertesacker were signed after the 8-2 thrashing (lest we not forget alongside Park, Santos and Benayoun). Cazorla and Monreal were signed because they could be acquired cheaply from a financially struggling Malaga. Podolski was signed from a recently relegated Koln, and Giroud after one strong season at Montpellier. This season, Flamini was signed on a free having trained with us to improve his fitness whilst he looked for a new club, and Ozil was signed on deadline day after being discarded by Madrid. To suggest that these were signed as part of an overall strategy is ludicrous. Wenger’s cardinal sin however was not in signing these players, but in misusing them. Too stubborn and inflexible to alter the way he wants to play, we’re now asking Giroud, Podolski and Cazorla to make runs in behind for Ozil, one of Flamini or Arteta to play as box-to-box players, and for Cazorla or Rosicky to stay out wide and help Sagna defend the entire right flank. It’s not surprising we’re so unconvincing, particularly against the best, when a lot of the players are so ill-suited to what Wenger asks of them.

     

    It is damning reading whichever spin you want to put on it

  • finsbury

    Btjgooner

    Do you think TommieGun’s legal skills include the ability to read the header at the top of every single page on the website?

  • TommieGun

    @ Finsbury – my legal skills failed to see the header which apparently must say something in the spirit of –

    “the players always play perfectly, Arsene Wenger never makes mistakes, whenever Arsenal win it’s due to ability and guile, whenever they lose it’s due to referees’ errors and/or injuries and/or Force Majeure”.

    Jeez, must’ve missed that.

    However, if you meant the header that says “Supporting the club, the players and the manager” – then you are more than invited to (maybe BLT can do it for you) look through my past comments, and see that I follow it to a T.

    Additionaly, you would also see that I believe that people can express their support in different ways, and that nobody can tell me (and I can’t tell anyone) that my support is better than theirs. The fact that I want Wenger to stay, don’t think we need any major new signing, and believe in this team – is irrelevant to the fact that some other fans think differently.

  • Menace

    Most of all I love the passion of you guys. I am not against any Arsenal supporter. Song went because of his agent. Incidentally several players went because of the same agent.

    Some of Arsenals players are not quick enough to be called EPL quality. We need pace in the team now. We have it in our kids and Gnabry, Bellarin amongst others should be playing. Poldi should have stayed on and Giroud should be rested. His position as a foil up front is not sufficient. He should be taught to turn with the ball and to shoot correctly. Players are paid money that is obscene and some can’t kick a dead ball!!

    Wenger is not being ‘fresh’. His style is poor and needs updating.

    I am available for free to teach technique. Kicking technique – how to kick a ball and protect oneself.

  • finsbury

    That would be a No then.

    So, in order to avoid telling others how to support Untold needs to listen to those constantly telling others how to support as has been recorded in the evidence of the disingenuous I.P. hopping trolls. On various blogs e.g ArsenalVision. Right.

    Glad we cleared that up then.

  • Max

    No points from the five away games against the top six in the Premier League; fifteen points dropped which have strengthened the position of teams around us. More damning than any statistic is the fact that we have not looked like taking any points in any of those fixtures. At least Arsenal were consistent in that respect at Goodison Park.

    How on earth has it come to this? The only thing that changed from Anfield, from Stamford Bridge, is the scoreline. The collapse may not have been as deep, quick or severe but it was as damaging.

     

    It’s ludicrous to claim the players are not playing for the manager but they don’t seem to be invigorated by him or the staff. Is that fed in part by their own interpretation of the uncertainty over the future? Perhaps but it strikes me that the issue of confidence is much more deep-rooted and I don’t think Arsène can solve the problems on his own. I don’t think that he can resolve the issues, full stop. I don’t think it is fair on him, however, to draw a contrast on managerial posture beside the pitch. Of course Roberto Martinez was full of life, the Spaniard was exuberant watching his team dismantle a team above them. If that display doesn’t charge you with energy, nothing will. Of course Arsène was muted by contrast, how can you be perky with another defeat staring you in the face. The problem was not beside the pitch, the problem was how easily Arsène was outwitted by another younger manager.

     

  • Hi Berry

    Honestly, some of the excuses and conspiracy theories put forward on this site are laughable and in the realms of paranoia. There’s no conspiracy by the Premier League, the referees association or Uncle Tom Cobley and all.

    Berry I have cut the rest of your comment because it is the same as we have had a thousand times here and it is, quite frankly, boring.

    This site has put together over 1000 articles which contain evidence of suspicious circumstances within football matches, and suspicious actions by organisations.

    What you have done is dismiss this as nonsense, but put forward no evidence to counter what we have proposed.

    Not only is it not a debate, but just a diatribe by you, it is also just a repetition of what has been said by others, and therefore is getting a bit boring. What we require is evidence on a large scale, not assertion.

  • Menace

    @Walter FIFA badge comes with 2 humps of a Quatari camel.

  • leany

    Can’t believe someone could have such patience and such big time of his own to continuously write one (long) post after another about something or someone he is fed up with. At least, you are not having a face-to-face conversation, so why bother to react that much?

    Frankly enough, Arsenal’problems are absolutely not your family problems, close friends’ problems or such kind. No way you couldn’t get yourself out of these painful and same old bad things, right?

    Cannot desert family, cannot leave friends in all that troulbe BUT YOU CAN DO THAT WITH Arsenal. It’s been a long time for you suffering so much, why not try forgetting Arsenal and enjoying your life now? You deserve it, don’t you?

  • Tom

    I won’t comment on the Everton game as there’s nothing to say that hasn’t been said over and over before and I won’t be calling for Wenger’s head either seeing there is a fair number of people doing it already but I will say this much. For all the seasons we have failed to win any trophies , there has always been one constant we Arsenal fans were able to fall back on and wear it as a badge of honor. It was the fact that Arsenal played the most attractive football in the leage and perhaps in Europe but this is no longer true.

    There are at least three clubs in the EPL and perhaps even four who have taken that distinction from us and two of them have done it on a shoe string budget.

    I watched Southampton dominate Man City and their star studded squad at Etihad for the majority of the game , only to succumb in the end to City’s superior finishing and bad refereeing. Southampton’s young and energetic team, led by equally young and energetic manager , play without fear and inhibitions. They lost their star player Rodriguez early in the game ,to what looked like a season ending knee injury and another ,virtually unknown player came on without the team missing a beat.

    Everton and Liverpool are the other two clubs playing the type of football Arsenal used to be famous for. While you could make the case that Liverpool have spent a lot to be where they’re at, though nothing Arsenal couldn’t easily do if we wanted to, you couldn’t say the same about Everton who when compared to Arsenal, are a relatively small club.

    One thing those aforementioned clubs have in common is a young manager with a vision and a plan his players can believe and buy into.
    Can the same be said about Arsenal and Wenger any more? I’m not so sure. A lot has been said in the media about Arsen loosing the players.
    I don’t think that’s true at all. Not in the sense it’s being mentioned anyways. They still respect him and want to play for him to be sure but wether they believe in the system is another matter entirely.

    The reason Ferguson was able to stay on top for so long was because he was able to evolve and adapt to League’s ever changing conditions, whereas Wenger has been trying to change the league to suit Arsenal instead. Criticizing January TW instead taking advantage of it , especially when our squad has been decimated by injuries , is simply foolish at best and negligent at worst. Speaking out against existing player loan system over and over instead of trying to use it to our advantage is faulty idealism and amateur like approach in a cut throat professional business of EPL.

    You don’t like the rules and you want to see them changed?, fine . Try to build the consensus and the coalition of the like minded people in the off season but once the season starts , be ruthless to use and exploit all those existing rules to your advantage and the advantage of your club. That’s your responsibility as a manager to the fans , players and share holders .If you think playing by certain rules is immoral and unfair then perhaps you should walk away from the league that supports those rules.

    Criticizing league’s physical style of football when the most successful Arsenal side in history of the club and built by and large by Wenger boasted players like Keown , Adams and Vieira , is peculiar to say the least. Arsen invented the blueprint for success in PL and then for some reason has abandoned it. Maybe he got distracted by the business side of running the club and who could blame him, that’s a lot for one person to stay on top of. Platini said in an interview once that Wenger stopped being a top manager when he became a top businessman . I think it’s time he stopped being a businessman .

  • Gunz

    @Walter,Tony,Untolders…
    Just so you can conserve your energy and time.

    Max:bear: is a troll!

    Max – April 6, 2014 at 7:42 pm
    pasted from
    (http://le-grove.co.uk/2014/04/06/replica-shirts-grow-up/comment-page-8/)

    Max – April 7, 2014 at 1:30 pm
    pasted from
    (http://www.football365.com/mailbox/9253941/A-Happy-Canary-After-Hughton-Is-Sacked)

    Max – April 7, 2014 at 3:02 pm
    pasted from
    (http://www.aclfarsenal.co.uk/2014/04/07/same-lessons-not-learned-as-arsenal-come-unstuck/)

    COYG!

  • Mandy Dodd

    Al @11.49, remember it well.
    Apparently, they have a record number of pens for this stage in the season, beating even Utd!

  • Mandy Dodd

    agree on the stalling issue Para, I am sure Wenger has his reasons…assuming he is going to sign, but not sure this stalling is helping anyone, least of all the players.
    Wenger would get a lot of stick if he signed now, so would the club, but they could spin it if it was accompanied with various assurances.
    For all we know, the players believe he is going, have no idea who is coming in and worry about futures

  • AL

    You’re absolutely right, Mandy. They have been awarded 12 in the league and one in the FA cup so far. They conceded 4. United never got more than 11 in any one season. Their nearest challengers are City and Chelsea with 7 each, who conceded 1 and zero respectively. Curiously, United were awarded 4, conceding 3.

    I don’t think it’s coincidence that the penalty league table almost mirrors the actual standings in the league. Another interesting thing is Anthony Taylor and Clattenburg are the refs that awarded Liverpool the most penalties, 4 and 3 respectively. And Clattenburg has been made ref for their match v City this weekend. Would be interesting to see if Taylor gets any of their remaining games, and which one that’ll be. Chelsea maybe? We shall see.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Tom, dont think anyone could see certain games this season and not think there are areas for improvement.
    You are correct about the young managers, some of them seem to have it all, but sometimes, young managers , like young players can be a bit of a flash in the pan, not saying these guys will be, but they need to stand the test of time. The likes of Rogers has done a great job, but rarely have I seen such a fair wind blowing a team along as with Liverpool this season, everything is going right for them, some of it planned, and due to their undoubted skill, but they are also getting things going their way that Arsenal will never get under Wenger. 12 pens so far and counting, Wenger will never get that. Not that I intend to diminish their achievements.
    Maybe these young managers have more energy, more adaptability, are more receptive to learning, or changing their methods when required. In fact the very opposite of what is being aimed at Wenger. Maybe our players , as some are saying, want the obsessive planning against opponents that Pep, Jose or these newish guys carry out, as opposed to Wengers approach, which appears to be give them the tools, make them fit…ok, know what I just wrote there… and send them out as free spirits allowing to think for themselves, and learn from mistakes. Maybe some of them are not quite good enough for such an approach that worked so well with TH, DB, RP, PV et al.
    I do not know if any of this is true. Maybe Wenger is more suited to either youngsters, or the elite of players, not guys lacking confidence that may appreciate the security of a second by second rehearsed to perfection game plan that Jose is famous for. Again I dont know.
    But I do know what Wenger can do. If there really are flaws in his management,and yes, he is human so there will be flaws..if he really can improve tactics or preparation, if he needs a couple beasts to cope with rotational fouling… if he is too fixated with the financials as some suggest,too conservative with transfers a new contract is the time to put this right and ensure his complete focus on the team. If our medics really are lacking, the answer is obvious. If he really needs help, now is the time to ensure he avails of it with a new deal.A top four place, an FA Cup, and the club and Wenger signing up to work to the very best practices available at all levels of running a club would do nicely.
    Might not happen that way of course….rarely does!

  • bjtgooner

    @Tommygun

    ref you comments: –

    ” I was not contending that your 10:35 post is your only offensive, KGB style, Stalinstic (and not Satanic) post.”

    By implication you are stating that my post was offensive, KGB style, Stalinist (perhaps better than Stalinstic.) I don’t think that post was, certainly not KGB style or Stalinist. But if you think is was, I do not not care & I will explain why.

    Lets look at another line: –

    “I think that you know very well that I comment whenever I think people are out of line.”

    What I have yet to notice is you pulling up one of the negative contributors when they malign, the team, manager, owner etc, or even on occasions Walter.

    You appear to be the apologist and self appointed defender of some of those negative contributors & you have done so by calling the club defenders “KGB type”. So you appear to express partiality in favor of the anti Wenger brigade – yet take the “holier than thou” attitude as expressed in the line above. If you commented evenhandedly I would have no problem with you statement – but you don’t appear to comment evenhandedly – therefore you appear hypocritical.

    Additionally, to call someone a KGB type or Stalinist is a much more derogatory term than a rat? I don’t care what you call me, but I make the point to illustrate your double standards.

    Reading further into this comment – you have decided to take it upon yourself to: – “comment whenever I think people are out of line.” So suddenly you are the self appointed saviour of all perceived unfairness – an ego and superiority complex? 🙂

    One final comment. To revisit that line: –

    “I comment whenever I think people are out of line.”

    No you don’t. You do not comment here regularly. There have many obnoxious contributors here over the last couple of weeks – any one of them you could have replied to – you did not. Looks like you are being, as once said in court, “economical with the truth”.

  • Mandy Dodd

    sorry, off topic, but “pundit” Stan Colleymore has spent the day going on about Evertons “good old fashioned English physicality” being used to bully soft Arsenal.
    If you want to upset this oaf, just tweet the words “Ulrika Jonsson” at him should you hear him mention words such as physicality and bullying. The word “physicality” being a recurring theme with this idiot
    Spiteful and below the belt, but such things have caused him a radio and twitter meltdown on several occasions! he often bites!
    If you dont know what I am talking about, just google this womans name alongside our stan.