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Arsenal first XI beat Man C reserves (apparently)

By Tony Attwood

In the build up to the Ems Cup I had a couple of rants against the pay TV channel BT Sport over their status as Arsenal’s media partner, which sat uneasily with their overtly anti-Arsenal broadcasting policy, as witnessed since the channel started..

Yesterday they had the rights to the Uncharitable Shield (so called because of the way the FA failed to hand out money to charities properly in its past incarnation) and just as with the first day of the Ems Cup this year, I thought they did quite well – by which I mean quite well for a TV station.

Did Untold have anything to do with this dramatic reversal of approach?  Who knows, but it would be nice to think an Arsenal exec saw the campaign and reminded the Sprout that in the end, it is the piper who calls the tune.   Without us, there is no show.

Sadly the same drift towards reality can’t be seen in the the rest of the media.   The dominant headline story in the UK after the game was that Man C “with over half their first team missing” were beaten by Arsenal.

Everyone admitted Arsenal played well, but that phrase turns up again and again in written and broadcast media.  It is as if the pressmen, pundits and the rest of the horde agreed on their anti-Arsenal line they would take, even before kick off.

Surely not!

It is a typical bit of media misleading.  I am sure that Man C did have six players not there who might be expected to play when all is fit (although including the free transfer Sagna in the six is a bit of a push, given he’s never played for the club).  But consider Arsenal.   Arsenal played without Ozil, Mertersacker, Podolski, Walcott and Giroud in the first half – five of the players we might expect to start if all were available.

But still, “Man C with just over half their first team missing lose to Arsenal with just under half their first team missing” doesn’t really have the ring.   Or the rampant bias.

The other line repeated (and BT Sport became BT Sprout again over this one) was “After nine years without a trophy Arsène Wenger now has two in two games.”  Yes, well, 0 out of 10 for imagination but you hit 85% on the cheesyness barometer.

And of course we got “the first time Arsenal have won the shield in a decade” plus measurement in days between the last cup win and this most recent one, and all that.  I wonder why they keep saying it.  Not to bring in readers and viewers, most certainly.  Maybe it is laziness.  Lazy journalists?  Surely not.

But Arsenal won, so the competition must be denigrated, and fast.  The Guardian had it as “little more than a semi-contest for a semi-trophy that fades from the memory come the first whistle of the season proper”   They go on to remind us that “Twelve months ago victory in the Community Shield was hailed as the first step in the David Moyes Revolution at Manchester United”.  It is thus clearly downhill all the way for Arsenal from now on.

Laughably that sentence is followed by…

“This is not to belittle Arsenal’s achievement in beating the champions convincingly…”

Yes it is guys.  And I think you know it.

Yes it is, Barney Ronay who we are helpfully told in the paper was “at Wembley” (although given his report it is hard to believe – maybe he got locked in the bar).

What we did learn is that Mathieu Debuchy has replaced Bacary Sagna perfectly and is set to reign in that position, and he is the perfect full back to have behind Sanchez.

We also learned that even without the master centre backs of Kos and Mert we can still control the game – although of course we’d all prefer Kos and Mert.

And we learned that after all his summer outbursts about birthday cakes and the like Yaya Touré is the one thing that holds Man C together.

So, should one feel sorry for Sagna, choosing to leave Arsenal for a highly lucrative long-term contract just when Man C look a muddle and Arsenal seem to be showing exactly why they were at the top of the table last season more than any other team?

No, not really.  You sign the deal, and live by your decision.  And besides the fact that Arsenal were at the top of the league last season longer than any other team is something YOU MUST NEVER MENTION.  Apparently it was agreed thus in the journalists’ bar.

But what we should do is recognise just how much of a squad we have.  We took this game to City and for half an hour they could hardly get a touch.  Yes they had players missing, but as I suggested above, so did we.  Including two of our triumvirate of Ozil Theo Ramsey.   We have backup.

And just as last season we saw Ramsey transmute himself into dominant player, so I think we were looking at a big step in that direction for Jack Wilshere.  Let’s hope so.  A Jack at his full potential alongside Theo Ozil and Ramsey would be awesome indeed.

What is a “triumvirate” when it becomes a foursome?

Anyway, maybe there is more to come.  Another transfer out there?  That would be interesting, but even if not, this looks good.  And besides, when the media make themselves look as daft as they have done with their reports of yesterday’s game, it is always a nice way to start the day.

———
 Today’s anniversaries are on the Untold Homepage.

The books

The complete Arsenal Anniversary series is to be found on the Arsenal History Society site.

106 comments to Arsenal first XI beat Man C reserves (apparently)

  • oldgroover

    The pundits are not professional journalists, so “lazy” is appropriate, and there’s only so much that can be said about a match which is nothing more than another pre season friendly, albeit one with a trophy. The newspaper writers should be a bit more creative, but it’s not yet the first week of the season.
    In fact other than the respective fans, who or what can generate any enthusiasm for it. Too bad we didn’t win the Emirates Cup, then they could have said we’d done a triple.
    However, I enjoyed it and think if it’s an indication of how we’ll perform this coming season, it’s a good one.

  • HR

    You lost me at “sprout”. #credibility #sighs #wontletitgo

  • Good article. One of the regrets I have being able to understand English is listening to and reading the English press.

  • oldgroover

    Also regarding the so called “seven missing” City players, I see no reason why Kompany or Sagna couldn’t be in the squad.

  • shaz

    I was really sick of all the chat about City having fielded a B-Team, just like us they were missing 3-4 key players. The difference was how we played. We played like everyone’s been in the same team for years. Everyone knew where to pass, what runs to look for. Essentially we played like a well oiled machine. City on the other hand looked like a team of assembled stars- which is actually unlike them.

    For the first time in a long time, we not only have a first 11 to match any in the Premiership but we have depth to supplement it. When you have Ox, Cazorla, Campbell on the bench you have players that can be introduced to change a game.

    The future is bright this year- I dont know if we’ll win it- we’ll push them damn close though.

    P.s is anyone else getting annoyed at Fabregas scoring at Chelski 🙁

  • Yiannis

    What’s wrong between the English press and Arsenal? BBC sport and Sky sport treated our win almost as inferior to ManU’s friendly win over Real Madrid…

  • jambug

    Tony

    As you may be aware, except when I have to (for the racing on Saturdays and ‘big’ meetings)I don’t buy papers, but your overview of there take on yesterdays events is hardly a surprise.

    I have said a few times that I think it will only get worse this year.

    Apart from the usual, general, anti Arsenal theme that runs throughout the media, throughout the year, there is one particular aspect of it this year that I find particularly worrying, and it is this relentless campaign against Jack Wilshere.

    Over the weekend we had our ‘Tone’ pouring his particular brand of self righteous, hypocritical, fuel on to the flames.

    Yeah, thanks Tone. Another ex Gooner shamefully feeding the anti Arsenal media machine.

    I said a few weeks ago that this particular campaign is all aimed at paving the way for a season of Wishere bashing, both verbal, and more importantly, and worryingly, physical.

    And yesterday Keown, meekly, sadly, and oh so predictably fell straight into line.

    Following yet another foul on Wilshere, what do we get from Keown?

    “Wilshere tends to draw these fouls out of opponents. He’s very late releasing the ball, that’s why he’s got so many injuries over the years.”

    So Keown concedes Jack constantly gets fouled, and that’s why he gets so many injuries.

    In which case you would think grounds for condemning the Referees for an obvious dereliction of duty in protecting him from illegal (fouls) physical assaults.

    Nope, not a bit of it. The inference is it’s all ‘his own fault’ for being “late releasing the ball”

    Yeah, thanks Martin.

    So there you have it, kicking Jack up in the air is now an accepted, legitimate past time because it’s all his own fault.

    The groundwork has been done, the seeds have been sown, now it’s down to you boys. Do your worst.

    Jack may as well be running around with a target on his back.

    I fear for his safety this year I really do. Out before November.

  • Shard

    What is a “triumvirate” when it becomes a foursome?

    Quadrumvirate

    Though I believe the answer you are looking for is ‘Wengerball’. 🙂

  • the mickster

    On BBC breakfast news this morning, Girouds goal was reported as deflected !!!!!!!!!!!!

  • goonergerry

    Football is a fairly simple game- you only have to beat the opposition this one included Dzeko, Toure, Navas, Nasri,Clichy, Fernando, Jovetic, Kolarov and Silva- despite the centreback the rest of the team could hardly be considered as “reserve”by anybodies standards. They cant blame lack of match practice either having just returned from the US tour.

    A win against the EPL Champs in a prestige friendly is always worth having and in patches Arsenal played very well indeed and when we didn’t have the ball we covered very well. Hope we can continue to play with the same fluency and confidence.

    Who is Barney Ronay anyway?

  • bjtgooner

    I am still enjoying the feel good factor following the earlier FA Cup win and now the Uncharitable Shield rout.

    The media headlines would have been quite damning had we lost, there would have been no excuses made for Arsenal – one of the Man City excuses was that they were “rusty”. I have not followed their build up for the season, but this year our preparation has, by necessity, been very disjointed.

    When the media have a story that they don’t want to run they try to submerge it with alternate news quickly, my impression of Sky Sports this morning is that they are doing just that – eulogising about the Manures (potential transfers), Chelski & Diverpool matches and minimal, if any, comment about Arsenal’s win.

  • micro

    You also need to remind them that the overall cost of that man city reserve team was still higher than any team Arsenal can assemble. From what I saw there were only two reserves, Boyata and Caballero. Arsenal also had Chambers, Sanogo who could qualify to be reserves. The truth with city is that if Yaya gets lost then there is no team and I think age is starting to tell, they should be in for surprises this season.

  • GunnerPete`

    It is a sad fact that as you highlighted so well, our ‘press’ is so northern biased it is unreadable sometimes. As for TV, the BBC have to replace the Liverpool old aged pundits with Ferdinand ex Man U and know anti Arsenal, Shearer (say no more) and a Neville (manure). These are added to a Leicester ex Spud who has made his anti AFC views well known. I noted that BT tried to give us an AFC opinion with Wrighty but come on, Pulis? It has been the same since I was a kid and I am now 72 ! If AFC got the same brown nosing press as Manure, City, The Pool and Chelski I think I would be sick.

  • jambug

    It’s hardly a surprise is it.

    Arsenal win the Community Shield. The Community Shield becomes a non event, barely worthy of a mention.

    I seem to remember the same thing happening to the FA Cup back in May.

    If by some chance we manage to win the Premiership fuck knows how they’ll denigrate that but mark my words they will, after all, many commentators somehow manage to scoff at the invincibles.

    I can see it now splashed across the back pages:

    ARSENAL WIN WORTHLESS PREMIERSHIP UNDERMINED BY SEASON OF TRANSITION FOR MAN CITY, CHELSEA, MAN UTD, LIVERPOOL, SPURS, EVERTON, VILLA, STOKE,…………

  • Rupert Cook

    @Jambug Keown’s not legitimizing Wilshire being fouled, he’s simply stating a fact. Wilshire lingers on the ball a little too long sometimes and he does get fouled, though he’s hardly kicked up in the air, as you so colourfully put it. What Wilshire tends to do is fall over easily and lie on the floor as if he’s been shot at the merest touch. There is still a certain amount of contact allowed in football and Wilshire loves to draw a free kick whenever he can. Of course fouling is wrong but it happens often and no teams get given free kicks every time, though they should.

  • Sammy The Snake

    Let it go lads, and just enjoy the win!

    Let’s start the season with a good feeling, and no expectations… And then we’ll see how we progress.

  • jambug

    Rupert Cook

    As usual you are talking nonsense.

  • finsbury

    “What’s wrong between the English press and Arsenal?”

    So, listening to the BBC5Live commentary the Tottenham player (Friedal) attempts to brand Alexis Sanchez a diver in his first game and declares that the “refs will have taken note”, and the main presenter announces to his audience with scientific certainty that Jack Wilshere has picked up injuries not because, say, he went in to a challenge and had a toe injured like City’s Negredo who is out injured but “because he bruises easily”.

    I kid ye not.

    Transparent and strange plunditry. There is no excusing it. It is what it is.
    Can we order some Kevlar socks for little Jack Wilshere? He’s gonna need ’em!

  • Micheal Ram

    Oh god, there we go again… As long as such media coverage exists in this world, Arsene and Arsenal will never gain the proper recognition they deserve.

  • bjtgooner

    @jambug @ 10.46am

    Agreed and seconded!

    Trolls do not seem to enjoy our team enjoy winning, their loss, their sadness!

  • bjtgooner

    “our team winning”

  • jambug

    bjtgooner

    I see our friend Rupert agrees that it’s all Jacks own fault.

    He’s as predictable as he is stupid.

  • Charlie

    I know that this site will appreciate a comparison of the costs of the starting lineups on Sunday. Arsenal weighed in with a cost of £108m for the price of their apparently complete squad. On the other hand the Man City “reserves” cost a princely £175m. Excuse me for being a bit confused by the statement that Man City were fielding a reserve team.

  • wengerson

    @ AAA cook (10:28 am)

    Oh how we wish YOU would “..fall over easily and lie on the floor” of a sewer, away from UA. I notice you are the type who “…loves to draw a free kick (to your nuts) whenever he can”.

  • finsbury

    “What’s wrong between the English press and Arsenal?” Part II

    “Far sterner tests await, though, than this weakened City, who had 58% possession and more shots on goal overall but still looked like a team simply stretching their legs”

    Barney Ronay, The Guardian Monday 11 August 2014

    City squad inc. bench yesterday = Approx. £240M
    Arsenal squad inc. bench yesterday = Approx. £130M*

    I kid ye not, though I wish I was. Who do they think they are kidding?

    *Not very accurate figures, I think we all get the idea. Poor old “weakened City”, eh? Just don’t mention the Wonga/gravy train!

    So there we have it, in their own words and quotes. Bias. Clear and present. Anyone who attempts to deny it will only make themselves look as much a ninny as those making the above quotes.

  • jambug

    Come on Rupert give us some more pearls of wisdom. I need a good laugh before I set off for work.

  • shaz

    @Rupert Cook It’s Wilshere, Wilshire is a place in England

  • TruthSpud

    The Media were disappointed.
    They all had bets on Shity,
    They wanted to see Shity trash you, and then report on you lot leaving the ground and going into meltdown, like last year…..LOL

  • Th14thesecond

    ”..the fact that Arsenal were at the top of the league last season longer than any other team is something YOU MUST NEVER MENTION. Apparently it was agreed thus in the journalists’ bar”

    As I read this I said to myself ‘that is so true’. It’s incredible how absolutely nobody mentions it.

    Really good writing on this blog, it’s slowly becoming my favourite Arsenal blog. I love the sharp-style of it as well. Pointing out some of these anti-Arsenal things are very important.

    I wonder why there is so much bias against us though? Very intriguing.

  • musad

    I am still at the peak of my celebration. Don’t have much time for those f*****g pundits. The more the negative pundistry the more Arsenal will prosper

  • nicky

    Can’t understand what all the fuss is about the spoken word via BT.
    So far I’ve watched three of their Arsenal games, two at the Emirates and one at Wembley.
    Camera work excellent.
    Didn’t hear a single word of commentary or analysis.
    Strongly recommend the procedure to others.

  • Ray from Norfolk, Virginia

    I think the press meant “cash reserves” when they said “reserves” about Man City’s squad.
    But, seriously, did any of you shed a tear when Nasri announced his retirement from the French national team? Are you all inconsolable about this, especially if, like me, you support les Bleus… I am already preparing Nasri’s epitaph: “not only was he really overrated, he was also really overpriced” and belligerent about it.

  • Mick

    @Rupert Cook
    Lets have some examples to support your argument. From the fouls committed on Wilshere yesterday can you tell us which ones were caused by him lingering on the ball too long? Also which were the fouls where he fell over too easily at the merest touch as though he had been shot?

  • oldgroover

    I’m surprised nobodies showing any concern that we might be even more depleted on Saturday with a possible Achilles injury to Kos, and we know how long they can take to heal. Personally I wouldn’t like to see us starting against Palace & Besiktas with just Chambers & Monreal in the centre of defence. The signings we’re linked with (Hummels & Agger) are not fit to play, so we’ll be in a bit of a mess if he’s out for long.

  • DevilDriver

    Now that Tommy Verm has left for Barca; does that mean we are in teh market for a defender or are we going to promote one of the youth?

    I ask, as last season i thought we were short even with Tommy Verm.

    DD….the fury of our makers hand

  • Ollie Hackney

    Although I never agree with your views Rupert, there’s truth in Wilshere goes down too easily sometimes. Regardless of this isn’t he still fouled? That being the main point? He does get kicked non stop.

  • H Bo

    @jambug you should be a preacher you said how it is.
    @nicky agreed camera on BT was a joke but what do you expect.
    @oldgroover I’m with you very worried about Kos and not sure about Gibbs, oh and does anyone no where Diaby is he can’t be injured it must be companionate leave or something cause there has been no mention or question by journo’s although that would mean they actually need to think about about what to ask

  • oldgroover

    H Bo

    Diaby has a hip injury, so it’s travelling up his body now. You couldn’t make it up!

  • If only the English media know the irreparable damage they are doing to themselves and Every English player. It is hardly surprising why England keeps underperforming in major competitions. But does the FA and their partner in crime, the ever anti-Arsenal media give a toss?

  • oldgroover

    Stan The Man
    The English media many be responsible for a lot of bad things, but I don’t think under performing English footballers is one of them.
    Are you suggesting that if the media were to say nice things about our footballers they would win the world cup?
    And what does the FA have to do with anti Arsenal media? I don’t see a connection.

  • Gerry

    I must admit I was amused by HR’s comment, and I think you have as much chance in thinking you have changed BT policy as I have in thinking my input had anything to do with calling a halt to your anti BT Sport campaign? It was always going to be temporary thing with the adverts as they tried to attract new viewers. As someone else said, by showing what they had that Sky didn’t?
    My real objection however, was you suggesting that BT were the worst sports broadcasters. I for one enjoyed my afternoon and evening viewing, which spilled over with a breakfast recording this morning.
    It began with the Community Shield, which today’s headlines were somewhat missing the point regards Man City. Not so much as ‘half their players missing’, more a case of half the team that played went missing? But we could only beat what team was out there, but not one to draw too many conclusions from?
    I had already engaged the recorder for the earlier part of Moto GP, but was was able the watch the bulk of Moto GP2 soon after the trophy was lifted. This was followed by the top of the bill, Moto GP, and the triple M – ‘Marvellous Marc Marques’ – who, having won the all 9 races in the first half of the season, matched Mick Doohan’s record of 10 in a row with this latest victory. Not bad for a very likeable 21 year old? Check him out at Silverstone, August 31st.
    Finally, the evening football concluded with Monaco v Lorient. The former hardly advertised our form in the Emirates Cup, as they lost at home 1-2. Booed off at half time, levelled it with a Falcao penalty, but conceded an 87th minute winner. In their post-Rodrigues period they look like they are destined to struggle for anything more than a mid table slot on this showing?
    Over breakfast I watched the GP3 race recording, and as per usual, it produced the most exciting race of the day, with 7 riders all in with a chance of winning with 6 laps to go. The strong headwind in the finishing straight meant the lead changed hands on almost every lap because of the slip-stream effect. Indeed the winner only got there in the final 100yds, and it went to Vasques, who won his first Moto GP race in over 100 previous tries.
    Not a bad 10 hours of viewing from the ‘worst sports broadcasters’, eh?

  • finsbury

    oldgroover

    What exactly is travelling up Diaby’s leg?
    The consequence of an Achilles injury which on earlier times would’ve ended his career? In case you are confused please refer to Homer: The Iliad, the bit that involves the Demi-god Achilles for a description of the impact such injuries can have upon an athlete. Thanks.

    Fortunately as can been seen with Rosicky’s recent comments, we support a sporting institution which adheres to the Corinthian spirit. Which is what these football clubs are all about? Right?

  • finsbury

    Thought the referee had a decent game yesterday.
    I was half expecting the opening goal to be ruled off by the Lino for offside. Well done the ref for knowing and applying the rules!!!!

    We saw more then a few of those in City games last term.
    Shame the Lino missed the ball go out of play!

  • finsbury

    Kosciely’s tendon injuries were a problem at the World Cup.

    It is a worry. If it’s serious the only cure is prolonged rest. So, Tommy’s departure couldn’t have happened at a worse time. However after he himself has lost years through injury, asking him to stay another season on the bench would’ve retarded his own ‘rehab’. Tommy hasn’t had a consistent long spell of games since he returned, which he needs like Ramsey needed them, as Wilshere is getting them.

    What do people think of Hayden. Can play CB and CDM.
    Played well against Gazprom-upon-Fulham last year.
    I hope he makes it at Arsenal.

  • andy bishop

    ” Its Wilshere..Wilshire is a place in England” WTF!!!!

  • oldgroover

    finsbury

    Although I didn’t mention an Achilles injury in reference to Diaby (has he had one?), I was unkindly making light of the fact that his injuries have taken over the whole of his legs and are now travelling up his body. I wish him well, but really don’t expect him to play a role in our team before his contract expires next year.
    Whatever I say doesn’t alter the situation that he’s a liability to our finances.
    “Corinthian spirit?” Doesn’t that apply to amateur sports people? We don’t have any of those at Arsenal (other than in the academy).

    http://www.joe.ie/football/football-news/an-incredible-list-of-all-abou-diabys-injuries-at-arsenal/

  • oldgroover

    Andy Bishop
    Wilshire isn’t a place in England, but Wiltshire is.

  • finsbury

    Old groover

    If you don’t know Diaby’s injury history, if you can’t or won’t accept the consequence of his original injury upon his unfortunate career then perhaps then you shouldn’t pass comment upon him? This only reflects poorly upon yourself. Whilst Arsenal’s conduct toward this player and their other charges, such as Ramsey, only reflects well upon the club. The Egomaniac who wanted to dictate transfer policy to the clubs coaches wanted shot of Ramsey as he attempted his rehab. He was shown the door.

    Football clubs have historically had a charitable/community tax status in the UK, one reason they are so appealing to “investors”. Others know more about this then me, fair to say that there is nothing amateur about this traditional role of professional football clubs over the last one hundred years plus, evidenced by the invitation to the local boy Pat Rice to hand out medals at Wembley at the former “Charity Shield”. It’s why City have tried to make such a song and dance about regeneration in Manchester. Their words, not mine.

    Comments by Rosicky and Ramsey on the support given to them when their careers were endangered are self-explanatory. You can’t ignore them no matter how hard you try.

  • Dante

    Untold Should Write An Article On Wilshere’s Game….Those Allegations By Keown Might Be True…..He Does Get A lot Of Fouls Though…..

  • wengerson

    @ Finsbury 2:08 pm

    Well said!

    And how long was van persie on the medic table?

  • Mike

    A football writer from the Times was asked on Radio 5 whether Arsenal could challenge for the title this year. His answer was that we are short in attack and defence!! He went on to say that if Arsenal wanted to win a “major, major trophy”…….. WTF!

    Last year it was “Arsenal who hadn’t won a major trophy for 9 years”. Now apparently a “major trophy” is no good, it has to be a “major, major trophy”. And if we do the domestic treble there will no doubt be a need for “major, major, major trophies …………..and you can bet you’re butt that if we were to win the Champions League we’d simply be “Arsenal, who’ve only won the Champions League once in their history” or “Arsenal who failed to reatin the Champions League”.

    Still for now we have to live with being Arsenal, “who’ve won only one major trophy in 10 years”. God, they make me vomit.

  • finsbury

    Wengerson

    It is strange to me that someone would attempt to comment on the career of Diaby whilst ignoring the infamous Call Centre Massacre.

    But if you want to go down that path, and you are an Expert, then how can you ignore that Alex Song leant more then half of what he knew on the training ground off Diaby? From that holding off technique through to the lofted assists, it is reasonable to see that Diaby’s “coaching” learnt the club a hefty chunk of that fee received for the poorly tempered Song. He’s covered his wages I think! Hehe.

    When you hear players like Gnabry, who Jogi Lowe was thinking of taking to the World Cup before injury, praise what they learn from Diaby in training, well, I’ve got more time for comments from the likes of Gnabbers, Jogi Lowe, Deschamps, Blanc and all the rest on the value of Diaby then some inaccurate and ill-considered commentary.
    The Boreham Wood skipper, like ALL of the other footballers or coaches who have played with or against Diaby, he praised the player.

  • oldgroover

    Finsbury
    A) I’m well aware of Diaby’s injury history…it’s all in the URL I thoughtfully provided for you.
    B) I was only referring to Diaby and not any other Arsenal footballer e.g. Rosicky or Ramsey who don’t have the catalogue of injuries that he has had. You brought them in, not me.
    C) I don’t need you to tell me who to pass comment on. I’ve read the rules and can recite the mission statement which qualifies me to comment any subject I care to.

  • Nelson Wong

    Its so funny… during the so called “trophy drought” they were saying the team wins nothing and this includes the shield.

    Now that Arsenal wins the shield, the say its nothing.

    Ok, we understand its not a major competition and teams are usually not in their best form but still you can’t take double standards like that.

    As Tony points out, Arsenal are missing quite a number of players. Last year, when they talk about the “down fall” of Arsenal in the middle of the season, they talk about the bench and Man City is suppose to have a “bench as good as first team”.

    Then all of a sudden “bench as good as first team” becomes only a reserve… not really first team.

    I read somewhere on-line that they Man City spend 1/3 or 1/4 more to assemble their “B team” compare to the team put out by Wenger yesterday.

    If Arsenal won lucky or with one goal on a wrong ref decision, you can say it really counts for nothing.

    Problem is its a Man City B… that to be objective means a team at least better than a mid ranking team.

    Even Arsenal can now put out a non- first team that can beat a mid table team. ( You make a list. Every position except CB are filled with another equally capable player… scary)

    To me. If Arsenal can lower their player injury time by 1/4 or even 1/5, and they can do as well as they did last year, they can win EPL.

    If other teams perform badly, they can win it with a significant margin.

    You may check their performace too. Arsenal have been up one year down one year for many years.

    Last year was a DOWN year. So they should go UP this year. That means they should at least remain 4th and get FA again.
    (FA and Shield… better than last year).

    We certainly want much more… may be something unthinkable? CL?

  • Mick

    Ollie Hackney
    ‘Although I never agree with your views Rupert, there’s truth in Wilshere goes down too easily sometimes.’
    Are you saying he dives? Or are you saying he is not strong enough? What do you and Rupert mean by ‘he goes down too easily’.
    There are certain players, Drogba and Ashley Young for example, who obviously fall over at the slightest touch. I do not see that in Wilshere so explain what you mean.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    The AAAAs, media and muckrakers vs the Awesome AKBs !

  • Brickfields Gunners

    There was a transient disturbance in the force , but I still have a good feeling about this !

    http://www.dilbert.com/2014-08-10/

  • oldgroover

    Jokerboy
    I’m surprised you’re not in some dark corner hanging your head in shame after that disgraceful post when you USED THE C WORD IN AN AGGRESSIVE MANNER.
    Suggest you stick to your silly jokes & cartoons, they tell so much about you.

  • finsbury

    *coughs*

    “Although I didn’t mention an Achilles injury in reference to Diaby (has he had one?)”.

    You were simply referred to the ancient legend of Achilles the Demi-God and the consequence of serious ankle injuries for athletes. It’s really not that hard a link to make. And if pedantry is an excuse then anyone who thinks the tendon wasn’t affected by that original injury (erm, a reconstructed ankle?) would be best advised to think again, if possible.

    From the link:
    “Ankle/foot injury 2006.”

    Nice try. Better luck next time. Again.

  • wengerson

    @ Finsbury

    Remember when Wenger said that the French national team manager/s told(tell) him that if Diaby is fit, he would be first choice midfield for France.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    God , this guy ( Scott Adams ) is good ! Today’s post sounds just like an on going ..err..debate (?) on here .
    AAAA – ” I have the right to express my shit opinion here – and you (AKBs) must respect and honour that right .”
    AKBs – ” Fuck you !”.
    AHHHHHH…

    http://www.dilbert.com/2014-08-11/

  • Brickfields Gunners

    BINGO !!!!

  • finsbury

    “I was only referring to Diaby and not any other Arsenal footballer e.g. Rosicky or Ramsey”

    Both players have expressed appreciation of the support through career threatening injuries. Same as Diaby has. I sorry mention of this offends you but this was mentioned because this is the club’s policy. It is not my opinion. A policy that I and most other Arsenal fans respect and admire.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    And…..it gets creepier !

    http://www.dilbert.com/2014-08-08/

  • oldgroover

    Finsbury
    Now you’re telling lies aren’t you?
    If you go back to my post which offended you so much you’ll see that I was answering another poster who asked what was going on with Diaby. I was unkind it’s true, but I did not say a word about any Achilles injury either by metaphor or otherwise.
    I did however mention the possible Achilles injury to Kos in a completely different post earlier, so perhaps that’s confusing you.
    If you want to go down the classical period road that’s you prerogative, but please don’t associate me with your silly ramblings.
    So just leave it alone now will you!

  • wengerson

    @ oldgroover (1:20 pm)

    ‘ The English media many be responsible for a lot of bad things, but I don’t think under performing English footballers is one of them.”
    How about overrating players? Carol? Cleverly? etc?
    Or underrating players? Gibbs/Walcott? Left out of WC 2010/2014 respectively!

    “Are you suggesting that if the media were to say nice things about our footballers they would win the world cup?”
    No. They should just report the truth, and maybe, just maybe, England (FA) might realize that there is a lot of work that needs to be done

  • finsbury

    Wengerson
    It was Blanc, current manager of PSG,who made those comments. Deschamps the other world cup winning French coach would pick him if fit there is no doubt.

  • oldgroover

    jokerboy

    There’s no AAA v AKB thing going on here, just a disagreement between two usually very sensible pro Arsenal commenters.
    But incase you’ve forgotten, here’s something you might like to revisit
    http://untold-arsenal.com/archives/36981
    Just go to 4.53pm and explain or joke your way out of that.

  • oldgroover

    Wengerson

    All footballers get equal treatment and ours don’t get any worse than those from the rest of the world.
    Think: Balotelli, Tevez, Surez, Ya Ya, Bendtner, Ribery, Van Persie, Bosnich, and it hasn’t seemed to make them any less as players.
    English footballers, like their overseas colleagues probably get the press that they deserve.
    If anybody suffered unfairly from the media I’d say Gazza did, but can’t think of any one else.

  • finsbury

    Old groover

    The only lie above is the one that attempted to make light of the original injury upon Diaby’s career.

    There’s nothing to be offended about. You can’t ignore that original injury. Hence the reference to, you know, the Demi-God! And the Call Centre Massacre.

    You know full well that the players career as a first team squad player has been over for years. He might still make it as a squad player. Maybe. This is not news.

    The club will support him, because it’s what they do. This observation is not an insult. It is an observation of the record of the club’s policy.

    I can guarantee to you that a number of physios will have highlighted the long term damage that Diaby is doing to his body by attempting to have some kind of career. And they would have advised him to retire. All because of the consequences of that original injury. Which brings us full circle and back to where this tangent began:

    It’s not rocket science, it’s anatomy. HTH.

  • BigV

    Was there a couple sneaky BT sport staff coments posted up on this thred? Not that I didn’t want to know how good there GP coverage is.

  • oldgroover

    Finsbury
    One last word from me on this as it’s getting ridiculous.
    I didn’t attempt to make light of Diaby’s injuries, I definitely did deliberately make light of them to my shame. But I’ve already put my hand up to that.
    One other thing, you mentioned he has a coaching role, well that’s good as I’m sure he has plenty to offer in that respect.

  • finsbury

    To conclude:

    Anyone who considers the clubs support of Diaby, Rosicky or Ramsey and now Wilshere and the departing Vermaelan* as a “liability” does not understand or accept the values of Arsenal Football Club.

    *Essentially two years of injury horrors. To complete his “rehab” he has to play long runs of games now, like Wilshee which is why, you know, I tried to mention these examples for the Expert above. The club let Tommy go after he was happy to spend a year in the bench because it is their policy to support their athletes! That old “amateur” Corinthian Spirit which is at the heart of every football club in the land! Which is one reason why Arsenal Football Club is by far the greatest team the world has ever seen.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    http://www.matthewhunt.com/cunt/
    ‘Cunt’ has been succinctly defined as “the bottom half of a woman or a very despicable person.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Or… take you pick –

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cunt
    a. Offensive Used as a disparaging term for a woman.
    b. Used as a disparaging term for a person one dislikes or finds extremely disagreeable.

    NB – I love women !

  • bjtgooner

    Wow! One would think we had lost yesterday! The debate has really soured – totally without justification – although the appearance of the troll never helps a reasoned debate.

    Oldgroover – you gotta have a sense of humour man – if not a blog site will always be a difficult place for you – people might think you are a grumpy git.

    Also – you are backing a loser if you are trying to defend the UK sports media.

    And – making light of a player’s injury is a very poor show.

    Why don’t you take your own advice: –

    http://untold-arsenal.com/archives/36981

    See comment at 6.13pm – applies to you more than anyone else!

  • wengerson

    @ oldgroover

    “All footballers get equal treatment…”
    No, they dont! (go into UA archives)

    “English footballers, like their overseas colleagues probably get the press that they deserve.”
    No, they dont! (go into UA archives)

    “If anybody suffered unfairly from the media I’d say Gazza did, but can’t think of any one else.”
    It’s fine if you cant think of any one else. But Arsenal as a Club/Team has suffered unfairly from the media.

  • oldgroover

    finsbury

    One final, final word

    I did not bring Ramsey, Wilshere, Rosicky or Vermaelen into this. That was your doing. I have not mentioned their injury records.
    And to apply Corinthian values to millionaire footballers is completely bonkers.

  • Mick

    Brickfields Gunners
    I will always regard ‘cunt’ as the word that perfectly described my maths teacher at school. It could easily have been invented just for him.

  • oldgroover

    Wengerson

    Well Ok then, but if a footballer ( or otherwise ) of any nationality lets negative media reports affect him so badly that he’s not good enough to play for his country (which is what this is about) he must be a pretty shallow person.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    @ Mick – He he he !
    Here’s my last for the night – I think I’ll call it as the worm turns …
    http://jokideo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/417700_362740043799136_1268472845_n.jpg

  • wengerson

    @ oldgroover

    You see the negative reports alone arent the problem. It’s the environment that is cultivated by this negativity, and before you know it the Referees, Shawcross, etc, tow the line.

  • oldgroover

    bjtgooner

    I think it’s my (sick) humour that’s the problem.
    Where am I defending the UK media? If it’s because of my debate with Wengerman you’ll see I made the point that they’re no harsher on Brits than Johnny Foreigner.
    I see you opened the link to jokerboys C word rant. Have any views on that? Or is that acceptable? I say this as you seem to give him plenty of support.

  • Josif

    Whilst some coaches suggest their players to release the ball quicker in order to keep their ankles from the butchers, there is only one problem in Wilshere’s case and that is the fact he gets no protection from the referees. When I say protection, I don’t mean he should be watched more carefully because he is a talented player unlike talentless morons that are trying to cripple him but because there are those things FIFA, UEFA and FA usually don’t give a crap about called RULES.

    Anthony Taylor has a special boner when it comes to Wilshere and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him giving a yellow card for THAT infamous cigarette just before the start of the first Arsenal game in which Taylor will be officiating. I just hope we won’t get Taylor for Crystal Pulis match.

  • GoingGoingGooner

    For once I have to partially agree with Rupert Cook. Partially. Wilshere does get fouled. And fouled a lot. But it does look like he goes down rather easily. Half the battle is convincing the referee that you have been fouled. Might be better to try to stay on his feet more saving the dirty knees for when we really need it.

  • AL

    It’s obvious the English media hamper England’s chances;

    1. They pick the manager, and the team.

    2. They let the refs award phantom penalties and free kicks to the likes of Gerrard, Rooney, etc., giving the impression they’re world beaters. The players don’t work hard as half their job gets done for them by the refs. Other thugs such as Ramires are allowed to hack our players with impunity. But when they turn up at a major tournament such as the WC and expect to behave the way they do in the premiership they find that there is no preferential treatment. They are stunned when players from small nations like Chile, Costa Rica, Algeria, etc outperform them. But that is reality.

    3. They over-hype English talent, when most of the players in England are mediocre at best. This pushes the players’ prices up; Luke Shaw £32m, Sanchez £30m, anyone???

    4. Did I mention they pick the team? I rest my case.

  • AL

    As for the bullshit that we played a city missing key players thats absolute nonsense. Their defence had 3 regulars (Clichy, Nastasic, and kolarov), all their midfielders were available. And they had Dzeko upfront. I saw that those in the media were counting the likes of lampard and Sagna as ‘the missing key’, laughable given the two have never kicked a ball for City. And why would Sagna and Kompany not be available anyway? They left the WC at the same time as our French contingent…

    Also, I never had the media try to explain our ‘poor’ run in March/April last season as being due to the fact we had six of our key players out for more than two months. The English media makes me sick, but not as much as anyone that purports to support Arsenal who tries to defend them.

  • Mick

    GoingGoingGooner
    I have asked Rupert and Ollie Hackney what they mean by ‘going down too easily’ but they have not replied, maybe you will. You admit he is fouled, but then seem to imply that he should try to stay on his feet. I have looked at the fouls that were committed on him yesterday and don’t see how or why he could have tried to remain upright in any of them. Other players were fouled as well and they all went down, why are you picking out Jack. Furthermore he gets fouled more than anyone else, a lot of which are from behind and usually round his ankles and not given by the ref.

  • para

    All right. We all need to moan a little, and even after beating a Manc team that finsbury says: “looked like a team simply stretching their legs” (which i also thought they looked like, as if they couldn’t be bothered at all).

    We played well, against the opponent on the field, won and we are all happy, really.

    I think 2 more players will come, one to replace Verminator(dare i call him that now?) and another one, that is if AW gets who he wants.

    I enjoyed the game, and the team selection(s), shows we have different layers of players to use. Cool.

    Will be a good season.

  • finsbury

    Oldgroover @ 3.45

    “One final, final word
    I did not bring Ramsey, Wilshere, Rosicky or Vermaelen into this. That was your doing. I have not mentioned their injury records.”

    Yes dear. As clearly explained above this was done in order to explain to you that the use of the word “liability” has been applied to what in this instance is in fact a clear and identifiable policy which many agree with and support.

    I would helpfully suggest that the next time you want to express a disagreement with an obvious policy of Arsenal Football Club, one that most fans are aware of and admire, that you do not brand an unfortunate athlete as a liability. If you don’t agree with what a football club is, fine, don’t agree.

    Most people in the the world, even Tony Poolis, praise the values of Arsenal Football club. With good reason.
    To repeat, for now the second or third time: I would appreciate it if those who do not agree with the values or conduct of Arsenal football club showed the footballs to critique the clubs policies directly, and not attempt to brand an unfortunate as a “liability.” Thanks.

  • finsbury

    “Untold Arsenal was set up by Tony Attwood in February 2008 as a mechanism for countering the eternally negative comments of other bloggers.”

    I guess that this upset a few people!

  • oldgroover

    finsbury
    Get real.
    The “unfortunate athlete” is a millionaire FFS! I wish I was that unfortunate.
    He’ll probably announce his retirement in a years time and take some cushy job in France, we’ll all say “such a shame, what a career he could have had”, and some enterprising soul might work out exactly how much this “unfortunate athlete” has cost Arsenal.
    Yeah, I’m sorry for his situation, he could have made a difference, but I’m not getting all misty eyed over Diaby. He’s stinking rich, he must be the wealthiest non playing footballer in the world.
    Sorry, but I’ll never agree with you on this, and in case you use the old mantra, this is definitely not an AAA thing as the idiot boy earlier suggested.

  • finsbury

    “Get real?”

    I am not the one making a public Arsenal hole of myself whilst attempting as in failing to argue with people who have clearly explained a policy to me.

    If you do not agree with the policy of the club, write them a letter.

    Good luck.

  • oldgroover

    finsbury
    You mean the policy of continuing to pay and support injured players?
    That support? If so I’m very much in favour of that, and including Diaby’s continuing rehab. Not his fault, good luck to him, hope he does recover and play successfully for us.
    Like I said I know the mission statement.

  • Ollie Hackney

    Mick. He gets fouled but sometimes has the opportunity to carry on as he has ridden the challenge, but just looks for the free kick.

  • Mandy Dodd

    A notoriously critical blog ran an article saying exactly that, ie Ivan took BT to task! Strange, Ivan is becoming a bit of a hero with some of the critics, one ultra critical blog stating that he alone persuaded Stan to drop the season ticket increase down from eight percent to three last season!
    Other articles suggesting he is countering wengers alleged dithering on transfers, and they Ivan has also been behind the injury review. Busy guy!
    True or otherwise, good to see some positivity towards the club from some unlikely sources

  • Mick

    Ollie Hackney
    So you are saying he deliberately goes down rather than carry on. Why would he do that?

  • andy bishop

    @ oldgroover…..I think everyone knows that Wilshire is not a place in England and that it is not the way to spell Jack’s surname. But thanks for bringing me up to speed. I had to laugh at the thread correcting Rupert for spelling Jack’s surname incorrectly for the corrector to get it wrong himself. I guess you got that.

  • oldgroover

    andy
    You wouldn’t believe it, but it’s actually a place in LA. Even the Yanks get the spelling wrong.

  • Nelson Wong

    AL,

    Your view about the media is right.

    1) I think the way they spread rumors and talk about news causes managers to look elsewhere. With the current media attention and the inability of FA to protect the team, its not an attractive job.

    2) Its not just phantom free kicks. Its their failure to use a modern standard to report things happening. If they really care, they should stop spreading the so called English Way of play. Parking the bus, knocking people over and breaking player’s leg. Do you see Germany and Spain do that? They are the leader of modern football. Do you see France (they played alright in this World Cup) do that?

    Who did that? Brazil did that. Netherland did that (also last WC… Kung Fu kick, remember). This style is not liked by the fans. Probably the worst game in the FC was the Brazil VS Columbia. I’d rather watch Rugby (which is a lot of fun) than Rugby style football.

    Football will always be physical when you allow them to contest the ball but it shouldn’t be a prefer tactic.

    3) of course some teams get way more free kicks and penalties than they should and they seem to be good. Look at result in CL and World Cup. English football is not as good as the media thinks. The British Empire spread the English language all over the world so they have a much bigger global reach. English media are more influencial. With more fans around, they seem to think they play better football.

  • para

    We can only push for the change of football to better rules and hope they are implemented “cos they make sense”.
    At least they have sorted the problem of players moving the ball and moving to less than the allotted distance at a free kick, all hail the “disappearing spray” now.

    Many UK teams are already changing their style from the UK style to actually playing football, i suppose only the die-hards will try to continue as long as they get support from the media and others, but it will not be long now and everyone will be playing skilled football.

  • jambug

    @AL 4.49pm 4.54pm

    100% agree, Very well put.

    @Ollie Hackney 7.06

    You said:

    “He gets fouled but sometimes has the opportunity to carry on as he has ridden the challenge, but just looks for the free kick.”

    That may or may not be true, but either way it would be no different to what EVERY and I mean EVERY other player on the planet does ‘sometimes’.

    So to even consider using that in your argument is to be frank, pathetic.

    Every time Wilshere takes the field he is targeted. He is constantly fouled from the outset.

    He is plagued with ‘shoves’ and ‘tugs’, my guess is with a view to incite a reaction from him, as well as the more damaging assaults on his ankles.

    As said earlier:

    It’s bad enough it happens.

    It’s bad enough the referees fail to offer him any protection.

    It’s bad enough the Media are trying to blame Jack himself.

    But what really irks are the supposed Arsenal fans that join in with this bullshit.

    Some of you are a disgrace, and when Jack gets assaulted out of the game for another 6 months you should hang your heads in shame.

    We have enough issues from our detractors outside the Club without our own fans somehow, unbelievably, trying to justify the coordinate attack on one of our own players.

  • TommieGun

    @ Jambug: following your great comment that in the end of the year, it will be written how “Arsenal did not ‘deserve’ the title” – how about something that will actually top that:

    “Arsenal did not deserve the title, due to huge help received from referees”.

    I Could imgaine Robin Williams doing that as a line, too bad he left us all too soon.

  • jambug

    TommieGun

    If we did triumph they’d find something that’s for sure.

    “Arsenal did not deserve the title, due to huge help received from referees”.

    An ironic germ of truth in your scenario when you consider how BT Sport laughably tried to suggest we where ‘lucky’ to win the FA Cup due to one dodgy corner decision, yet somehow managed to dismiss out of hand our SIX strong penalty claims.

    Yes, very sad news about Robin Williams and indeed the family he leaves behind. RIP.

  • TommieGun

    I would have wrote that I’m kindov waiting to read what the scholar, noble prize candidate and world-wide known genious, Michael Owen, will write, after we win the title.

    But that would be a lie.

    I don’t give a rat’s ass about what he’s going to write, because he’s a fuckin retard (and I apologize to all mentally challenged people for this non-politically correct rant), and I’m already tired of reading all those “pundits” opinions.

    BTW did anybody read any tweets from our famous supporter (I mean, professional whiner) P. Morgan lately? I haven’t…

  • Untold!!after bt next AAA Mission possible