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October 2016
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Afterthoughts on Chelsea – Tottenham. What would have happened to Arsenal, if they’d played like this?

By Walter Broeckx

As you have probably seen the special on request ref review of the match between Chelsea and Tottenham was published earlier today.

Looking back at this all some questions can be asked. Questions about the standard of the PGMO refereeing in the PL but also about being consistent.

This really is a fine (sic) example to what PGMO officiating can lead. PGMO officiating means letting as much go as possibly can and hand out as few yellow or red cards as can. As a result a referee who tries to do this and bumps in two two teams who are out to kick each other then you get this …. I don’t know what to call it but surely not a football match.

If Clattenburg had stamped his authority on the match from the first minutes and got out his cards from the start and with the first serious foul all this probably wouldn’t have happened.  Put this match in the hands of a Spanish or Italian referee (just to give an example) and the cards would have come out in the first 15 minutes and players would have known that they had to stop acting in this way or get sent off. Most intelligent footballers know what is the best way to act then (stop doing it).

But Clattenburg was afraid(?) or ordered (by whom?) to be lenient in line with the PGMO guidelines. And then we got this. I have a double feeling about Clattenburg whom I have seen do excellent matches in the CL where he did pull out the yellow cards when needed and kept the game in control. Now he completely failed to do this in this fight. Different instructions? Different interpretation?

In a way it was Clattenburg on the field doing a miserable job… but he was only the straw man for the person really responsible for this wrong behaviour when it comes to applying  the laws of the game.

That person was once again out of the firing line during and after the match. That person is the head of the PGMO who is responsible in the end when his refs screw up badly as Clattenburg did. He is the one that should make sure that refs in the PL act according to the instructions world wide and not use a own version of the laws of the game because it is the PL.

This was a disgusting performance from the PGMO ref on the field who allowed two teams to behave in the most disgraceful manner I have seen for a long long time.

Thug football is a phrase that is more than appropriate to describe it. And thug football has been banned in the rest of the world for a while now but if the PGMO keeps on doing like they are doing we will see more and more of it.  If you compare Clattenburg who was rightfully very strict in applying the laws of the game when sending off Mertesacker against Chelsea and then compare him with the one of the Chelsea-Tottenham match you can only start to wonder what and why there is such a difference in applying the laws of the game?

We all want consistency from the referees. Meaning they all should take the same actions when similar things happen. We know we don’t get this. Anyone who has a closer look can tell you that. The Coquelin sending off for a second yellow card (correct) and Dier not being send off for a second yellow card (not correct) in the same match by the same ref shows that there is too much inconsistency from the refs.

Clattenburg was clearly very strict in the application of the laws when sending of Mertesacker but now he just almost everything go in the Chelsea – Tottenham match. How can a ref be so different? It is the same ref (or was it a clone?) and as far as I know the laws of the game haven’t been changed halfway the season. And the difference in leniency between those two matches is extra ordinary.

I might see it from an Arsenal point of view and notice that there is no leniency for any Arsenal player and that other teams can get away with almost all they want.  But how can such a match with so many violent fouls not see someone getting sent off??? I really cannot understand it. If you compare this with the treatment Arsenal players usually face… they only have to breath to get a yellow card at times.

And then people ask us to behave as Tottenham players do. With the difference we notice in how the referees act towards Arsenal players as opposed to other players we can be sure that if Arsenal would have played like that we would be down to seven man before we would realise it. Compare the way two of our players were sent off at Chelsea earlier this season to what happened in the Chelsea – Tottenham match!

Compare this and then tell me with a straight face there is no difference. There is a difference in how we are treated. All reviews indicate that there is this inexplicable difference.

And maybe instead of calling for the manager’s head, Gazidis head, Kroenke’s head and dividing our fan base it might be better to stop the infighting and look at the real enemy. The enemy outside the gates of the Emirates! How can Arsenal fight against teams who are allowed to do 10 times the things we aren’t allowed to do? So instead of asking change of the manager, board we should ask for change for something that is far more important: the referees.

But I’m not holding my breath… in fact the hate against Wenger/Gazidis/Kroenke is so big that most involved in it don’t even want to consider the difference we see in refereeing standards.  While we are infighting we forget who the real enemy is. I will not judge Wenger as long as I notice that there is not a level playing field. Once our reviews show that there is no bias against Arsenal at all over a whole season, then I will judge him. But you as well as I know that if that level playing field would occur… we would win the league.

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73 comments to Afterthoughts on Chelsea – Tottenham. What would have happened to Arsenal, if they’d played like this?

  • After the under 21 game at the Ems last night, I watched the latter part of the WHU v Man U game, and although it wasn’t nearly as frightful at the Chelsea Tottenham affair, it certainly involved huge amounts of activity that was much closer to rugby than football.

    It appears that referees are, for some teams, letting the game get utterly out of control.

  • Andrew Crawshaw


    I’ve just finished transferring this data to my referees spreadsheet. I can’t ever remember one taking as long. What really struck me though was that although this was a truly appalling piece of refereeing, it only ranks as the third worst we have analysed this year. It does earn Clattenburg a third entry on the Wall of Shame and probably catapults him into bottom place in the referee of the year rankings but as you say he is only following orders.

    The sooner the whole of the PGMO edifice is abandoned the better.

  • Robert

    And this is the ref chosen for both the FA Cup final and the Champions League final.

  • Porter

    Champions league final will see the true Clattenburg so Simone and Atletico better watch out as the strolling Senors retake the trophy that Eufa most probably want them to.

  • colario

    When the time comes, will Mr Clattenburg accept the £50 000 silence is golden handshake from the PGMO?

  • Mandy Dodd

    Seems, based on this season, Clatts quite likes Spurs…he gifted them a win at City as well.
    Wenger has taken a clear stand against the traditional game, and he and his players pay for it.
    If Arsenal played like these two teams, there would be a WOB/Media outcry, several reds to our players on the pitch, probably more retrospective bans, a massive fine, and I would imagine a points ban. As well as an after effect in the refereeing against us in the next few games.
    Unfortunately, the haters will never see the true enemy, as they see only one thing.
    As for Kroenke/Wenger/Gazidis….not calling for any heads, and will leave the first two out of this, but surely Ivan should be using his position and influence to do more

  • Leon


    I’d have thought that Clattenburg would be the one to step out of line and not take the hush money. He’s had a few issues with PGMO, but it’s along way off, so who knows what will happen before he hangs up his whistle.

  • Leon


    Re your last paragraph. Ivan’s a bit of a let down in this respect. Could you imagine Karren Brady putting up with some of the PGMO performances we’ve had to?

  • Mandy Dodd

    Leon…..maybe the “word let” down a bit harsh, but cannot for the life of me imagine why someone with the power and influence he does would put up with something that is now a level playing field for his team.
    Maybe, there is just nothing he can do about it, or maybe, he thinks his intervention would make things worse.
    His predecessor, Mr Dein was reportedly very vocal at the powers that be over injustices, real or perceived affecting the team. Maybe he has done some lasting damage?
    Maybe Stan doesnt care. Maybe, there is an incentive to keep quiet.
    Maybe they feel sorry for Mike Riley…or think Atkinson is a fine and fair referee, perhaps they secretly admire English kick, hoof and rush…
    Who knows….but it is a bit annoying…

  • Mandy Dodd

    ^ put up with something that is NOT a level playing field for his team…..

  • Rich

    Tony, Andrew

    Just me, or did you think the ref for last night’s youth game was lousy first half and then very decent in the second?

    First half he seemed to favour them a lot; second he did his job pretty well and maybe, maybe favoured us by a tiny margin. Or maybe being fairly normal is so rare it just felt like that.

    I try my best not to even pay attention to the refs for the youth games (thinking mainly about credibility issues if I bash them as well), but more often than not find I fail at it.

    Looked to me like someone had a word with him at half time.

    A side note: we’re being linked with this Bolton lad, Holding, and it got me thinking about who our last Northern player was.

    Jeffers aside, have there been any since days of Dixon and Bould?

    Maybe a Northerner or two could help when taking on pgmol rules.

  • Leon


    Not forgetting Danny Welbeck of course.

  • para

    They seem to have the idea that keeping cards in the pocket early in the game allows the game to flow.
    This is nonsence and only allows, as you so rightly point out, players to get away with too much.

    What is the difference between a foul in the first 15 mins and a similiar foul in the 2nd half? They are both the same and should have the same punishment.

    A totally unfair practice and Arsenal is usually on the receiving end of the unfairness.

  • Gord

    OT: Corruption

    WorldFootball has a short report mostly about illegal gambling in football. It is the result of a OECD Task Force report being published. The WorldFootball report does not provide any URL, but I am guessing:

    __OECD Task Force on Countering Illicit Trade

    Near the top of the article at OECD, are 2 links, I am guessing it is the first one.

    __Illicit Trade – Converging Criminal Networks

    This is not a free document, you need to purchase it.

    There is a section in the report on sports gambling (apparently).

  • Neil

    As a Spurs supporter, I could not understand how Dier managed to stay on the pitch against arsenal and chelsea, although by the letter of the law, your rb Bellerin? should also have gone for a 2nd bookable offence at WHL, which seems to have been forgotten about. Spurs lost their heads at the bridge, but it was a London derby and as a supporter, you want to see some passion from your team in such a match, even if does over step the mark. I’m not sure if the refs had a different approach, you would win the league , strange comment, or whatever you think you deserve. As with most things, if you worry about everybody else and you take your eye of your own game, you go nowhere, arsenal always have had a strong defence with strong characters, that has not been the case for about 7/8 years and long may it continue, just my thoughts.

  • Leon

    Completely OT (sorry), but Danny Welbeck’s had an operation on his knee and will be out for nine months. That’s mid Feb. He doesn’t have much luck does he!

  • Gord

    OT: Welbeck has it top of the page, so no need to read medja lies and other fabricated content. Welbeck has had surgery on his right knee, and rehab is anticipated to be 9 months.

    Good luck with the rehab Danny!

  • Gord

    Oops, sorry Leon.

  • Andy Mack

    Mandy, I gather that each team (manager?) gives a brief written report after each game (not sure if it goes to the PL, FA or PGMO) and maybe we’re in payback for a bad report some years back, or alternatively the club could be making representations to the PGMO on a weekly basis. We just don’t know.
    We pretty much never hear about any other club doing this, but I’m sure they do as well. However it’s all done behind closed doors, which is probably a PL/FA/PGMO requirement.

    The PGMO are more secretive than MI5 and weald immense power that only some seriously consistent bad publicity would break.
    As long as they keep the TV and main media on their side then they can do whatever they want, whether it’s arranging certain leniencies for favoured teams or completely arranging the top 4s finishing positions a year in advance.

  • Tom

    Why is it mutually exclusive to be able to admit there’s an anti-Arsenal referee bias ,but still be able to judge Arsene Wenger based on his, or his players performance ?

    Show me one example of a game when Arsenal failed to show up , the referee didn’t cost us the game , and you in your game report put the blame squarely on the players and the manager.
    It simply hasn’t happened once.
    You simply refuse to judge the manager at all , which is fine, but don’t use the referees as an excuse for doing so.
    It’s a cop out.

    Just remember this though, praising someone will carry a lot more weight behind it, if you are able to criticize them fairly every now and then, otherwise it’s just sycophancy.

  • colario

    A referee report is about the referee of the game. Not the players, not the manager, not the fans of the taste and cost of the pies.

    Get it Tom. A report on the referee is about the referee, no one else and nothing else. Just the referee.

    Walter’s report on the game is a report on the game and all who took in it on the pitch, the players of both teams and the officials.

    Hope we have resolved that one for you.

  • Rich


    Totally forgot about Welbeck. Daft of me.

    As it happens, he copes with pgmol rules better than most.

    Absolutely gutted about his injury. Night off from football for me now so I don’t dwell on it.

  • Tom

    Thanks, what would I ever do without you explaining things to me?

    Here’s a line from Walter’s last paragraph :
    “I will not judge Wenger as long as I notice that there’s no level playing field”, which is what my post was directed to.

  • Florian


    As painful as it is, the most recent Chelsea match at the Ems is such an example. Per was rightly sent off, and they weren’t awarded a penalty when Kos clattered into Fabregas, and still we missed a lot of chances that could have brought us at least a draw.

  • norman14

    We need to sign a striker now that Welbz is out for so long again. Maybe Sturridge? do a swap for Theo!

  • colario

    If there isn’t a level playing field, how can you make a level judgement?

  • Neil I think you have the disadvantage of not having seen our regular reviews of matches by referees; the comment you find strange comes from our analyses which have been going on now for many years. But I do appreciate your moderate approach to a rivals’ site. If only all fans of a rival club could be as measured in their comments – and that includes many Arsenal fans on other teams’ sites – and come to that a lot of Arsenal fans on our site.

  • Rosicky@Arsenal

    Tom and the AAAAS N Wobs

    I hope the double standard of refreeing in Chelsea and Totts match should be an eye opener for the people who think there is no bias refreeing against Arsenal.

  • mojola

    @Tom, I think one of the game the ref had a score of about89% was a match arsenal lost against chelsea at the emirate.”it has simply not happen once” that’s one example for you,can’t provide the link,but the referee wasn’t blamed as far as I can remember.

  • Don’t hold your breath Rosicky@Arsenal,
    That game was one of the worst I have ever witnessed and how Spurs kept all their players on the pitch I will never ever know.You can have a London derby without the leg breaking tackles and eyes been poked at. If that had have been Arsenal we would have been crucified and Wenger would have been given a ban for coming on the pitch. Points would have been docked and those crooked B******S that are called the PMGO would have been rubbing there hands with glee.

  • norman14


    Don’t forget who is actually running our game..


    Everybody else works for them!

  • mojola @ tom that is the link to the ref report of the said match,d ref score was actually 75.7%.there was no where in the article the ref was blamed for the loss.

  • Norman 14
    Your right and what a bloody mess.

  • jake

    I think clatternburk would make more money from a book than 50K for keeping silent.

    or maybe refs from pgmo honor contacts unlike certain club owners

  • Gord

    Congratulations to Newcastle and Norwich. You are joining AVilla in the Championship next year.

    Jake, is the pay for doing the UEFA-CL and FA Cup final something small? Maybe Clatt gets 50k for each of those games, as well as the shut up payment from PGMO?

  • JamesO

    Wenger got sent to the stands for kicking a water bottle at the theatre of dreams. I think he then got a further touchline ban for a couple of games after that? All for kicking a water bottle… Double standards?

  • Pete

    Norman – I think you meant to write “ruining” rather than “running”.

  • goonerwin

    Arsenal didn’t win the league this year because we just wasn’t good enough! stop looking for scapegoats! It just wasn’t our season, we lacked a killer edge and didn’t convert enough chances, our defence wasn’t good enough, the standard of refereeing in this Country is appalling and something needs to be done about it! and every fan of every club will say the same thing! its not Anti Arsenal its poor refereeing! we will still finish at least 3rd maybe even second and for me that is ok! Chelsea, Man U and even Man City (if Liverpool win the Cup) will not be in the Champions League next year, yet Arsenal again will be there and that is an achievement I can live with and be happy with! we didn’t win the league because Leicester were more consistent and that it! no other reason

  • Mandy Dodd

    Maybe Newcastle fans especially, …..and other clubs fans might think the consequences on fans driving out managers, doesn’t always have the desired effect.
    The Newcastle fans, if not the players , it could be said they get what they deserve.

  • Tom

    Mojola, Florian and others

    There’s no ambiguity in my post ,I don’t believe, yet everyone seems to miss what I said.

    Show me one example of an Arsenal game when referee wasn’t to blame , Arsenal players didn’t perform , and Walter laid the blame at the feet of players and The MANAGER in his game report.

    Show me any example when Walter criticized Arsene Wenger for any reason whatsoever and I’ll withdraw my original post.

    When he says he will not judge Arsene Wenger until there’s is a level playing field, he doesn’t really mean it does he.
    Praising someone is in itself a form of a judgment, except when it’s all you ever do ,sooner or later people begin to question your judgment.

  • Tom

    For the umpteenth time, yes there’s is an anti -Arsenal bias in the PL, the media and the punditry, and I have held this belief for years.
    I really try my level best to be polite to everyone on here, but some seem to have a memory of a fruit fly..

  • Matthew

    @Mandy Dodd: So you’re saying we might go the same way as Newcastle if Wenger is “driven out”? Really? Is that how little you think of our prospects?

  • Mark

    Whenever I read your posts, it generally leads to you picking a fight with someone on here. Ever wonder why?

  • Jerry

    Excellent article highlighting the different ref treatment for Arsenal and other teams.

    Flipping your question back at you: Show me one example of a game when Arsenal didn’t play well, lost/draw a game, and you put the blame on anyone but the manager?

    It simply hasn’t happened once.

    You simply only judge the manager, which is not fine, but refuse to acknowledge the many questionable decisions that go against the team.
    It’s an inappropriate fixation.

    Just remember this though, praising someone will carry a lot more weight behind it if you actually do it once in a while, or else all you are doing is criticizing them unfairly every time, otherwise it’s just bunkum.

  • Tom


    I don’t have to wonder why, because I know why.
    I don’t care for agenda driven bs and even though I agree with most on here about main issues, I don’t care about forging alliances or making friends with anyone at a cost of not being honest with myself.

  • Matthew reducing complex issues to one line comments never gets us anywhere. If Wenger were to be driven out, it would proclaim to world football who was in control of the club – obviously the people who drove Wenger out. Thus existing and new players would consider whether they wished to work for a club that had these people (the ones who drove Wenger out) as the powerhouse within the club. Even if those who run the club now, still ran the club, they would have shown that their views can be overthrown and set aside.

    Obviously I know nothing of you, but many people do consider who their employer is and whether they want to work for that employer or take employment elsewhere, and in a situation like this, there could be great difficulty in recruiting and retaining staff.

  • Tom

    There have been too many games to list on here when Arsenal played poorly and I didn’t think Arsene Wenger was to blame.

    Most notably against Chelsea at the Bridge where Dean cost us the game to a certain extent by sending off the wrong player, even though our defending for the Costa goal was shambolic.

    Another game might’ve been against Monaco at home , where our players , and Ox in particular lost the ball in dangerous areas which lead to Monaco’s goals.

    Bayern 5:1 away, another one I didn’t blame the manager for .
    Swansea at home and United away , both costing us dearly in the title race this season. Players underperformed badly and I didn’t blame the manager.

    You really should make it more challenging unless you’re trolling me in which case , well done 🙂

  • Leon

    Loving the exchanges between Tom & Jerry. Keep it up chaps, they might make a TV…………oh!

  • WalterBroeckx

    Can you believe our “luck” as it is Clattenburg for our final match of the season….

    Which ref will we see? The European Clattenburg or the PL one?

  • Al

    Tom represents the worst I hate about people who are always moaning about Wenger. Give him 20 facts, he will ignore those 20 facts and pick on one tiny insignificant detail [such as “couldn’t you have chosen a better title for your report”] and use that to try and discredit what you’re saying. In his world he expects, and demands, nothing but an absolutely perfect delivery, whatever it is. Just wonder if he gets it 100% correct 100% of the times, whatever it is he does.

    Each time I read a comment from him I get depressed. Fortunately he usually doesn’t go over 3 posts at a time, so a lot easier to avoid his posts, but today he seems to be uncharacteristically enthusiastic to respond to any comment on this forum. It becomes very difficult to ignore what he’s saying when he’s trying to engage everyone on this thread. Guys, if you dont mind, can you please try and ignore him 🙂 The sooner he goes away the better. I can’t stand the negativity and arrogance any longer.

  • Al

    I think being given instructions as to what to go and achieve in a match messes these refs up. They should be making decisions based on their first instincts. But if one has to ignore that and think “ok I’m meant to be ensuring team A wins so in order not to upset so and so let me do this or that..” it’s going to be very difficult. And that is why they end up making baffling decisions such as we have seen from the likes of moss and clattenburg this season. As someone [Rich?] pointed out yesterday these guys aren’t that bad, if you look at their CL performances, but in the PL they look terrible as they’re trying to follow a script.

    Mason appeared to be acting for the cameras when he did our match v Southampton; the way he walked 10 yards to go and move the ball back by one inch before Ozil could take a free kick, then point at his whistle while shaking his head and casually strolling back.. Or standing with the ball clutched under his arm, sipping lucozade water and chatting to the physio for a Southampton player being treated for four minutes less than a yard from the touchline, displayed shocking levels of arrogance from an official and it appeared he was trying to impress someone. Just two stand out moments for me but there were plenty in that match.

    On a different note, am I correct that Arsenal are the only side to have played a match with 10 men in the top four mini league table? And still top it?

  • Tom

    You really are the last person to be talking about facts on here.
    “Couldn’t you have chosen a better title for your report” is definitely NOT something I have ever said but nice try regardless:)

    Also, if someone responds to my original post ,which was directed to Walter, then it’s them engaging me and not the other way around.
    Shouldn’t the norm be to answer their posts in return?

    I remember ignoring some posts in the past when I didn’t think it was worth it to rebuke them, only to be accused of running and hiding from the likes of you and others.

    Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

    And finally, if my posts depress you , don’t read them. How hard can it be?

  • Gord

    Here’s the whole list Walter. As mentioned at ZetasBoards, it is likely that all of the officials for our game will be the officials for the FA Cup game. Furthermore, by assigning the Clatt to our game, PGMO are expecting our game to be low key.

    Sunday 15 May 2016
    K.O. _MATCHES _ _ _ _ REFEREE _ _ _ ASST. REF. 1 _ _ASST. REF. 2 _ _4TH OFFICIAL
    15:00 Arsenal – Aston Villa _ _ _ _Mark Clattenburg J Brooks _ _A Halliday R East
    15:00 Chelsea – Leicester _ _ _ _ _Craig Pawson _ _ M McDonough D Bryan _ _T Harrington
    15:00 Everton – Norwich _ _ _ _ _ _Lee Mason _ _ _ _A Garratt _ D Eaton _ _S Attwell
    15:00 Man Utd – Bournemouth _ _ _ _Jonathan Moss _ _A Holmes _ _H Lennard _G Scott
    15:00 Newcastle – Spurs _ _ _ _ _ _Anthony Taylor _ M Mullarkey S Child _ _N Swarbrick
    15:00 Southampton – Crystal Palace Michael Oliver _ G Beswick _ L Betts _ _K Stroud
    15:00 Stoke – West Ham _ _ _ _ _ _ Mike Jones _ _ _ M Perry _ _ M Scholes _G Eltringham
    15:00 Swansea – Man City _ _ _ _ _ Mike Dean _ _ _ _J Collin _ _S Long _ _ A Marriner
    15:00 Watford – Sunderland _ _ _ _ Kevin Friend _ _ M Salisbury A Fox _ _ _D Deadman
    15:00 West Brom – Liverpool _ _ _ _Robert Madley _ _S Bennett _ P Kirkup _ A Davies

  • WalterBroeckx

    If you would have read(understood) I was in that paragraph talking about referee decisions evening out over a whole season. I was not talking about single matches.
    I try also not to judge a player/manager yes even a referee on a single match. I try to judge them over seasons.
    And as I haven’t found a level playing field in any of the seasons I have been reviewing Arsenal matches I wait for calling for someone’s head till that moment arrives.
    But since 2008 I am waiting for that moment to arrive….

  • Jerry

    The Chelsea game at the Bridge, you did blame Dean initially saying that all Arsenal fans should unite behind the club and Wenger, but then switch your tone during the ref reviews:

    “I think the problem you and everyone else who believes Walter’s ref reviews to be like some sort of gospel run into , is the fact that most challenges and would be fouls can be interpreted in more than one way.”

    Then went on to type different scenarios where you thought Walter would say something for Arsenal and for other teams.

    In the Monaco game, you said the players are not good enough and then criticized Wenger’s record in the CL saying it does not bode well for our future.

    Even the matches you mentioned you switch the tone to attack the ref reviews or the manager.

  • Al

    You can see my two posts above were not directed to you, so I wasn’t actually expecting you to respond addressing me..

    And you say;
    “And finally, if my posts depress you , don’t read them. How hard can it be?”

    I do ignore you, a lot. Instead, you keep addressing me, forcing me to respond to you, because you’re thick that you fail to get the message that I don’t want to speak with you! Last time I mentioned I skip your posts for obvious reasons, and yet today you ask me to skip them! I also mentioned in my post today that I don’t read your posts, but was finding it difficult to navigate around these as you were engaging everyone on this thread, meaning I would inadvertently end up reading about your thoughts from other commenters who were responding to you. See, you’re forcing me to address you directly again, to explain the obvious.

    I don’t wish to speak with you, Tom. Just go away. And I said the last three words through clenched teeth. Got that?

  • Leon

    I’ve only been on this blog a couple of weeks (although read it for longer), but I’ve already sussed who the blog head case is. Wow!

  • jake

    walter i’d still like to call for dean’s head tbh:)

  • WalterBroeckx

    Based on a few dozens ref reviews…. so would I 😉

  • Al

    I am willing to bet my last penny that you have been here much much longer (reading and posting) than you want us believe. The rate at which you’re posting your opinion about everything on each and every thread is just not consistent with someone who has been observing things passively all this time.

    As Mick said the other day, you reminded him of Rupert. And I agreed then and still agree now. There is always someone who “springs” out of nowhere and starts posting on anything and everything, before they’re usually found out to be using fake or multiple identies. And when they are rumbled they disappear, only to be replaced by another ‘newbie’ who will go on posting at the same rate. The newbie almost always appears after the fake personality disappears… strange that, ain’t it. I have to say you fit in this mould, too bad I can’t access the IP logs or I’d be saying someone who was known as such and such used to post here from this newbie’s IP address.

  • Leon


    Sorry I don’t conform to your blueprint for commenting on football blogs, but have you considered that I might have nothing better to do with my time than hang around Untold Arsenal all day.
    As for accessing my IP. Take it up with the blogger, I’m sure he’ll provide you with any of my personal info you require. You both have my complete permission to do so.

  • Al

    I post here quite regularly, but I also have a professional job, and family to look after. So there’s no assumption there that only those who post with regularity have nothing to do. I’m glad to hear you say your IP address won’t be linked with any previously disgraced posters; original and genuine posters are always welcome here, not copy and paste merchants.

    By the way, ‘accessing your IP’ kind of infers doing something illegal, and I don’t think anyone does that sort of thing here. Rather, I’d call it comparing. Sorry if I mistook you for one of the disgraced posters, it just might be coincidence, but serge also used to like phrases such as “sussed”, “rotational fouling”, etc.. Anyway, happy posting, and verbal sparring 🙂

  • Leon

    serge? I thought you said I was Rupert. Not that I’m bothered.
    Yes, happy posting etc.

  • Top Guns

    @Tony Attwood I agree with your comments about how people consider who their employer is and whether they want to work for that employer. Certainly this is what Mesut Ozil and Alexis Sanchez need to think about this summer.

    What does that say about their current employer though if they decide that they would like to work for another employer?

  • Tom

    Who’s calling for anyone’s head , or who’s asking you to do so?
    Certainly not me, and certainly not Wenger’s head.
    I have stated numerous times on here that Wenger should be able to honor his contract , as he hasn’t done anything close to warrant its termination.

    As for judging players and the manager over the seasons instead of game by game – perfect , I say. How about Arsenal players and Wenger’s performance in Europe then.
    The sample should be large enough.

  • Tom

    Moving the goal posts I see.
    I wasn’t expecting anything else from you tbh.
    I give you the perfect example ( among others) of a game against Chelsea, when Arsenal played poorly, I blamed someone and it wasn’t Wenger, and you dismiss it because later on I disagreed with Walter’s interpretation of rules.
    That wasn’t part of the criteria you specified.


  • Tom

    When you reference my name in your post then you are addressing me, although indirectly, and you best expect a response ,Jack.

    Also , I’m not forcing you to do anything ,let alone to respond to me ( talk about thick)
    I think you must have me confused with yourself, since it was you demanding a response from me a while back when you got all giddy thinking one of your half baked ideas had proved me wrong.

    Get a grip and stop embarrassing yourself. I’m not going anywhere 🙂

  • Jerry

    I highlighted exactly what you said. You said all Arsenal fans should unite behind the club and manager, but when the ref review of the game came out, you criticize the ref review defending the ref.

    That’s called flip flopping and tbh it’s not surprising coming from you.

    Do you have any examples of praising the manager since that was mentioned in my initial post also.

  • Rantetta

    Good article Walter.

    I think we’ll get the same Clatters as ever. (The stamp on the face, the broken knee, the non sending off of opposition thugs, and the assured smile/shake of head as the mind adjusts for the tilt).

    It’s a lovely idea – that the refs behave on international duty, but it’s not borne out by what I’ve seen. King webby set the precedent in WC2010 final, remember?

    Al. Thanks as always for your contributions. Rhys Jagger, Mike T, Rupert, and many more, they’re all there, and they’re not Arsenal fans.

  • Tom

    Again, your requirements were clear.
    The example of Chelsea game fulfilled the requirements you had put forth.
    Simple as.

    After proved wrong , you decide to add new requirements in a typical fashion of someone who hates to be proved wrong , no problem I say.

    I knew this would be the case from our earlier exchanges ,for example when you claimed Arsenal physio assessed knee ligaments injuries on a pitch on a player by player case, when it’s clear to anyone with two eyes that the SOP has always been to let the players try to continue and see how it goes.

    Even Welbeck, who is going to be out for nine months, was asked to give it a go but couldn’t.

    As to your new inquiry, sure, I have praised Arsene plenty of times and not just when he was winning the league, but also recently.
    Away to Man City last season comes to mind,when he changed the team tactics and sat back a bit to absorb the pressure, which I thought was smart and surprising.

  • Jerry


    I don’t remember this exchange, but for anyone with a medical background, your statement in regards to the physio assessment of a knee ligament is completely wrong. A player gets injured and the job of the physio is to assess the player.

    If the player has a serious ligament injury, the physio is not going to allow them to continue. For example, no physio will allow players to continue if they assess an ACL (anterior cruciate ligament) or PCL (posterior cruciate ligament) injury.

    But fine, you’re right, you’re allowed to flip flop your opinions, it’s your right.

  • Jerry

    And I’ll admit when I’m wrong, you did praise Wenger for the Man City away game, it was only 16 months ago.

  • Jerry

    And apparently, there were two Toms writing on Untold back then (seen clearly in the Man C v Arsenal. The silence of the sheep article. So hopefully, you’re being truthful and that was you also with some of the positive comments you claimed above.