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Ref Review: Hull – Arsenal. An extraordinary performance by the referee.

By Usama and Walter

HULL CITY vs. ARSENAL

  • COMPETITION: English Premier League
  • MATCH NO. 5
  • DATE: 17th September 2016
  • VENUE: KCOM Stadium (Hull, England)

MATCH OFFICIALS:

REFEREE: Roger East
1st LINESMAN: Darren Cann
2nd LINESMAN: Matthew Wilkes
4th OFFICIAL: Paul Tierney

First Half

Fouls, Advantages, Cards, and Penalties

Time Foul by Foul For Description & Decision Points
00:10 Tom Huddlestone (Hull) Francis Coquelin (Arsenal) Huddlestone tripped Coquelin from behind.

CORRECT FOUL FOR ARSENAL.

1 (FOUL)
09:56 Abel Hernandez (Hull) Petr Cech (Arsenal) Cech came out of goal and cleared the ball when Hernandez momentum carried on to Cech and brought him down.

CORRECT FOUL FOR ARSENAL.

1 (FOUL)
12:39 Francis Coquelin (Arsenal) Robert Snodgrass (Hull) Coquelin charged in to Snodgrass from behind.

CORRECT FOUL FOR HULL CITY.

1 (FOUL)
15:44 Abel Hernandez (Hull) Shkodran Mustafi (Arsenal) Hernandez pushed and tripped slightly Mustafi from the side.

CORRECT FOUL FOR ARSENAL.

1 (FOUL)
22:14 Robert Snodgrass (Hull) Nacho Monreal (Arsenal) Snodgrass tripped Monreal from behind.

CORRECT FOUL FOR ARSENAL.

1 (FOUL)
33:06 Santi Cazorla (Arsenal) Ahmed El Mohamady (Hull) Cazorla went in late sliding recklessly and brought down El Mohamady. Clear reckless foul.

CORRECT FOUL FOR HULL CITY.

CORRECT YELLOW CARD AGAINST CAZORLA.

1 (FOUL)

2 (YELLOW CARD)

39:12 Jake Livermore (Hull) Walcott played in a cross and Coquelin took a shot at goal which was going on target. Livermore stretched out and moved his left hand in the direction of the ball and stopped the shot on goal.

 

12.11 Page 146

“Where a player denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a deliberate handball offence the player is sent off wherever the offence occurs.”

 

“When a DOGSO offence is committed by a defender in the penalty area, the penalty kick effectively restores the goal-scoring opportunity so the punishment for the player should be less strong (a YC) than when the offence is committed outside the penalty area. However, where the offence is handball or clearly not a genuine attempt to play or challenge for the ball (as defined in the wording) the player will be sent off.”

 

CORRECT PENALTY FOR ARSENAL.

CORRECT RED CARD AGAINST LIVERMORE.

3 (PENALTY)

3 (RED CARD)

40:10     A minute earlier Arsenal were awarded a penalty and Livermore was sent off by the referee. Livermore was asked to leave the field. Livermore was walking, trying to leave the field of play when the restarted the play with a penalty kick. The referee and his assistants failed to restart the play without the sent off player on the pitch.

 

The play must not have restarted with the sent off player still on the pitch. Hence the restart of play which is the penalty kick must have been retaken.

 

12.3 Page 84

“Once the referee has decided to caution or send off a player, play must not be restarted until the sanction has been administered.”

 

NO PENALTY RETAKE FOR ARSENAL.

-3 (PENALTY RETAKE)

 

42:15 Alexis Sanchez (Arsenal) Harry Maguire (Hull) Slight mis-kick from behind on Maguire.

CORRECT FOUL FOR HULL CITY.

1 (FOUL)
43:28 Andrew Robertson (Hull) Alexis Sanchez (Arsenal) Robertson slightly tripped Sanchez from behind, but Sanchez kept moving forward. Only a second later Robertson came from behind and dispossessed Sanchez off the ball. The ref converted the advantage in to a foul correctly.

CORRECT ADVANTAGE PLAYED FOR ARSENAL.

CORRECT FOUL FOR ARSENAL.

1 (ADVANTAGE)

1 (FOUL)

46:57 Santi Cazorla (Arsenal) Andrew Robertson (Hull) Cazorla clearly blocks the ball and doesn’t move with Robertson falls down by running in to him. This should not have been a foul against Arsenal but was given.

WRONG FOUL AGAINST ARSENAL.

-1 (FOUL)
   
Number of Correct Fouls for Arsenal – 5

Number of Correct Fouls for Hull City – 3

Total Number of Correct Fouls – 8 [8 points]

 

Number of Incorrect Fouls against Arsenal – 1

Number of Incorrect Fouls against Hull City – 0

Total Number of Incorrect Fouls – 1 [1 points]

 

Number of Correct Advantages for Arsenal – 1

Number of Correct Advantages for Hull City – 0

Total Number of Correct Advantages – 1 [1 points]

 

Number of Incorrect Advantages against Arsenal – 0

Number of Incorrect Advantages against Hull City – 0

Total Number of Incorrect Advantages – 0

Number of Correct Yellow Cards for Arsenal – 0

Number of Correct Yellow Cards for Hull City – 1

Total Number of Correct Yellow Cards – 1 [2 points]

Number of Incorrect Yellow Cards against Arsenal – 0

Number of Incorrect Yellow Cards against Hull City – 0

Total Number of Incorrect Yellow Cards – 0

 

Number of Correct Red Cards for Arsenal – 1

Number of Correct Red Cards for Hull City – 0

Total Number of Correct Red Cards – 1 [3 points]

 

Number of Incorrect Red Cards against Arsenal – 0

Number of Incorrect Red Cards against Hull City – 0

Total Number of Incorrect Red Cards – 0

Number of Correct Penalties for Arsenal – 1

Number of Correct Penalties for Hull City – 0

Total Number of Correct Penalties – 1 [3 points]

 

Number of Incorrect Penalties against Arsenal – 1

Number of Incorrect Penalties against Hull City – 0

Total Number of Incorrect Penalties – 1 [3 points]

Offsides

Time Player Offside Defending Player Description & Decision Points

Goals

Time Goal Scorer Description & Decision Points
16:33 Alexis Sanchez (Arsenal) Clean goal.

CORRECT GOAL FOR ARSENAL.

3 (GOAL)
Number of Correct Goals for Arsenal – 1

Number of Correct Goals for Hull City – 0

Total Number of Correct Goals – 1 [3 points]

Number of Incorrect Goals against Arsenal – 0

Number of Incorrect Goals against Hull City – 0

Total Number of Incorrect Goals – 0

Goal Kicks, Corners, and Throw-ins

Time Type Last Touch OFF Description & Decision

Other

Time Type Description & Decision Points
28:28 Head Collison Mustafi and Diomande jumped together at the same time, resulting in both heading each other. Both players went down holding their heads. The ball in an open position in the right side of field. The ref looked twice and made the decision to stop play for treatment for both players.

CORRECT DECISION TO STOP PLAY FOR TREATMENT.

1 (INJURY)

1 (INJURY)

Number of Other Incorrect Decisions against Arsenal – 1

Number of Other Incorrect Decisions against Hull City – 1

Total Number of Other Incorrect Decisions – 2 [2 points]

First Half Referee Report

Total Number of Correct Decisions for Arsenal – 5+1+1+1+1+1 = 10

Total Number of Correct Decisions for Hull City – 3+1+1 = 5

Total Number of Correct Decisions = 10 + 5 = 15

 

AFTER POINTS HAVE BEEN WEIGHTED

 

Total Number of Correct Decisions (Weighted) for Arsenal – 5+1+3+3+1+1 = 14

Total Number of Correct Decisions (Weighted) for Hull City – 3+2+1 = 6

Total Number of Correct Decisions (Weighted) = 14 + 6 = 20

 

Total Number of Incorrect Decisions against Arsenal – 1+1 = 2

Total Number of Incorrect Decisions against Hull City – 0

Total Number of Incorrect Decisions = 2 + 0 = 2

 

AFTER POINTS HAVE BEEN WEIGHTED

 

Total Number of Incorrect Decisions (Weighted) against Arsenal – 1+3 = 4

Total Number of Incorrect Decisions (Weighted) against Hull City –  0

Total Number of Incorrect Decisions (Weighted) = 4 + 0 = 4

 

 

 

First Half Correct Decision Percentage = Total Correct Decisions / Total Decisions (Correct + Incorrect) = 15/(15+2) = 88.2%

 

 

First Half Correct Decision Percentage (WEIGHTED) = Total Correct Decisions / Total Decisions (Correct + Incorrect) = 20/(20+4) = 83.3%

 

Second Half

Fouls, Advantages, Cards, and Penalties

Time Foul by Foul For Description & Decision Points
45:29 Tom Huddlestone (Hull) Alexis Sanchez (Arsenal) Huddlestone tripped down Sanchez from behind.

CORRECT FOUL FOR ARSENAL.

1 (FOUL)
46:21 Santi Cazorla (Arsenal) Robert Snodgrass (Hull) Cazorla slightly tripped Snodgrass, but Snodgrass kept moving forward only to lose the ball. The ref correctly turned the advantage in to a foul.

CORRECT ADVANTAGE PLAYED FOR HULL CITY.

CORRECT FOUL FOR HULL CITY.

1 (ADVANTAGE)

1 (FOUL)

50:21 Sam Clucas (Hull) Alex Iwobi (Arsenal) Clucas was trying pull Iwobi from the shoulders and arm. This should have been a foul for Arsenal but was not given.

NO FOUL FOR ARSENAL.

-1 (FOUL)
51:07 Shkodran Mustafi (Arsenal) David Meyler (Hull) Mustafi went in with slow sliding tackle from the side and brought down Meyler. This should have been a foul for Hull but was not given.

NO FOUL FOR HULL CITY.

-1 (FOUL)

 

56:30 Nacho Monreal (Arsenal) Robert Snodgrass (Hull) Slightly high foot by Monreal. Nothing dangerous, but careless.

CORRECT FOUL FOR HULL CITY.

1 (FOUL)
64:18 Alexis Sanchez (Arsenal) Harry Maguire (Hull) Slightly high leg by Sanchez made little contact in the waist of Maguire.

CORRECT FOUL FOR HULL CITY.

1 (FOUL)
71:23 Laurent Koscienly (Arsenal) Robert Snodgrass (Hull) Koscienly slightly pushed Snodgrass in the back.

CORRECT ADVANTAGE PLAYED FOR HULL CITY.

1 (ADVANTAGE)
75:01 Francis Coquelin (Arsenal) Robert Snodgrass (Hull) Coquelin slightly tripped Snodgrass.

CORRECT ADVANTAGE PLAYED FOR HULL CITY.

1 (ADVANTAGE)
75:13 David Meyler (Hull) Theo Walcott (Arsenal) Meyler tripped Walcott from behind.

CORRECT FOUL FOR ARSENAL.

1 (FOUL)
77:10 Petr Cech (Arsenal) Dieumerci Mbokani (Hull) A whipped in cross was delivered in the Arsenal’s box. Mbokani made slight touch to the ball and Cech who charged out to clear the ball missed it and brought down Mbokani late in the penalty box. The referee initially waved no penalty but 3-4 seconds while the ball was still in play to change his decision to a penalty. The referee made the correct decision to change his decision.

 

5.2 Page 45

“The referee may not change a decision on realising that it is incorrect or on the advice of another match official if play has restarted or the referee has signaled the end of the first or second”

 

12.11 Page 146

“Where a player commits an offence against an opponent within their own penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offending player is cautioned…”

 

“When a DOGSO offence is committed by a defender in the penalty area, the penalty kick effectively restores the goal-scoring opportunity so the punishment for the player should be less strong (a YC) than when the offence is committed outside the penalty area. However, where the offence is handball or clearly not a genuine attempt to play or challenge for the ball (as defined in the wording) the player will be sent off.”

 

CORRECT PENALTY FOR HULL CITY.

CORRECT YELLOW CARD AGAINST CECH.

3 (PENALTY)

2 (YELLOW CARD)

81:09 Shkodran Mustafi (Arsenal) Dieumerci Mbokani (Hull) Mustafi jumped in the back of Mbokani.

CORRECT FOUL FOR HULL CITY.

1 (FOUL)
92:43 Dieumerci Mbokani (Hull) Nacho Monreal (Arsenal) Mbokani pulled back Monreal from behind.

CORRECT FOUL FOR ARSENAL.

1 (FOUL)
 
Number of Correct Fouls for Arsenal – 3

Number of Correct Fouls for Hull City – 4

Total Number of Correct Fouls – 7 [7 points]

 

Number of Incorrect Fouls against Arsenal – 1

Number of Incorrect Fouls against Hull City – 1

Total Number of Incorrect Fouls – 2 [2 points]

 

Number of Correct Advantages for Arsenal – 0

Number of Correct Advantages for Hull City – 3

Total Number of Correct Advantages – 3 [3 points]

 

Number of Incorrect Advantages against Arsenal – 0

Number of Incorrect Advantages against Hull City – 0

Total Number of Incorrect Advantages – 0

Number of Correct Yellow Cards for Arsenal – 0

Number of Correct Yellow Cards for Hull City – 1

Total Number of Correct Yellow Cards – 1 [2 points]

Number of Incorrect Yellow Cards against Arsenal – 0

Number of Incorrect Yellow Cards against Hull City – 0

Total Number of Incorrect Yellow Cards – 0

 

Number of Correct Penalties for Arsenal – 0

Number of Correct Penalties for Hull City – 1

Total Number of Correct Penalties – 1 [3 points]

 

Number of Incorrect Penalties against Arsenal – 0

Number of Incorrect Penalties against Hull City – 0

Total Number of Incorrect Penalties – 0

Offsides

Time Player Offside Defending Player Description & Decision Points
55:29 Abel Hernandez (Hull) Laurent Koscienly (Arsenal) No replay or correct angle shown. Assumed correct. Assistant Ref Darren Cann made the correct call.

CORRECT OFFSIDE FOR ARSENAL.

1 (OFFSIDE)
61:09 Abel Hernandez (Hull) Laurent Koscienly (Arsenal) No replay or correct angle shown. Assumed correct. Assistant Ref Darren Cann made the correct call.

CORRECT OFFSIDE FOR ARSENAL.

1 (OFFSIDE)
65:25 Abel Hernandez (Hull) Nacho Monreal (Arsenal) Hernandez was in an offside position. Assistant Ref Darren Cann made the correct call.

CORRECT OFFSIDE FOR ARSENAL.

1 (OFFSIDE)
Number of Correct Offsides for Arsenal – 3

Number of Correct Offsides for Hull City – 0

Total Number of Correct Offsides – 3 [3 points]

Number of Incorrect Offsides against Arsenal – 0

Number of Incorrect Offsides against Hull City –  0

Total Number of Incorrect Offsides – 0

Goals

Time Goal Scorer Description & Decision Points
54:09 Theo Walcott (Arsenal) Clean goal.

CORRECT GOAL FOR ARSENAL.

3 (GOAL)
78:12 Robert Snodgrass (Hull) Clean goal.

CORRECT GOAL FOR HULL CITY.

3 (GOAL)
82:02 Alexis Sanchez (Arsenal) Clean goal.

CORRECT GOAL FOR ARSENAL.

3 (GOAL)
91:37 Granit Xhaka (Arsenal) Clean goal.

CORRECT GOAL FOR ARSENAL.

3 (GOAL)
Number of Correct Goals for Arsenal – 3

Number of Correct Goals for Hull City – 1

Total Number of Correct Goals – 4 [12 points]

Number of Incorrect Goals against Arsenal – 0

Number of Incorrect Goals against Hull City – 0

Total Number of Incorrect Goals – 0

Goal Kicks, Corners, and Throw-ins

Time Type Last Touch OFF Description & Decision

Other

Time Type Description & Decision Points

Second Half Referee Report

Total Number of Correct Decisions for Arsenal – 3+3+3 = 9

Total Number of Correct Decisions for Hull City – 4+3+1+1+1 = 10

Total Number of Correct Decisions = 9 + 10 = 19

 

AFTER POINTS HAVE BEEN WEIGHTED

 

Total Number of Correct Decisions (Weighted) for Arsenal – 3+3+9 = 15

Total Number of Correct Decisions (Weighted) for Hull City – 4+3+2+3+3 = 15

Total Number of Correct Decisions (Weighted) = 15 + 15 = 30

 

Total Number of Incorrect Decisions against Arsenal – 1

Total Number of Incorrect Decisions against Hull City –  1

Total Number of Incorrect Decisions = 1 + 1 = 2

 

AFTER POINTS HAVE BEEN WEIGHTED

 

Total Number of Incorrect Decisions (Weighted) against Arsenal – 1

Total Number of Incorrect Decisions (Weighted) against Hull City – 1

Total Number of Incorrect Decisions (Weighted) = 1 + 1 = 2

 

 

 

Second Half Correct Decision Percentage = Total Correct Decisions / Total Decisions (Correct + Incorrect) = 19/(19+2) = 90.4%

 

 

Second Half Correct Decision Percentage (WEIGHTED) = Total Correct Decisions / Total Decisions (Correct + Incorrect) = 30/(30+2) = 93.7%

 

 

Full Time (1st Half + 2nd Half) Referee Report

Total Number of Correct Decisions for Arsenal – 10+9 = 19

Total Number of Correct Decisions for Hull City – 5+10 = 15

Total Number of Correct Decisions = 19 + 15 = 34

 

AFTER POINTS HAVE BEEN WEIGHTED

 

Total Number of Correct Decisions (Weighted) for Arsenal – 11+15 = 26

Total Number of Correct Decisions (Weighted) for Hull City – 6+15 = 21

Total Number of Correct Decisions (Weighted) = 26 + 21 = 47

 

Total Number of Incorrect Decisions against Arsenal – 2+1 = 3

Total Number of Incorrect Decisions against Hull City – 0+1 =1

Total Number of Incorrect Decisions = 3 + 1 = 4

 

AFTER POINTS HAVE BEEN WEIGHTED

 

Total Number of Incorrect Decisions (Weighted) against Arsenal – 4+1 = 5

Total Number of Incorrect Decisions (Weighted) against Hull City – 0+1 = 1

Total Number of Incorrect Decisions (Weighted) = 5 + 1 = 6

 

 

 

Full Match Correct Decision Percentage = Total Correct Decisions / Total Decisions (Correct + Incorrect) = 34/(34+4) = 89.4%

 

 

Full Match Correct Decision Percentage (WEIGHTED) = Total Correct Decisions / Total Decisions (Correct + Incorrect) = 47/(47+6) = 88.6%

 

APPENDIX

Key Decisions in the Match Points
Advantage 1
Foul 1
Incorrect Corner 1
Incorrect Goal Kick 1
Incorrect Throw-in 1
Other (Ref Positioning, Injuries, Time Wasting, etc.) 1
Offside 1
Yellow Card 2
Red Card 3
Goal 3
Penalty 3

 

NOTE: FOR ANY WRONG DECISION MADE THERE WILL BE NEGATIVE POINTS AWARDED FOR THAT SPECIFIC KIND OF EVENT.

NOTE: ANY INCORRECT OR WRONG DECISION/NON-DECISION WILL BE HIGHLIGHTED WITH A RED COLOUR.

NOTE: ANY DECISION THAT INVOLVES DOUBT IS HIGHLIGHTED AS BLUE IN COLOR.

NOTE: The word ‘FOR’ is used to show IN FAVOR OF.

NOTE: All the Laws Of The Game used are referenced directly from the following link. “LAWS OF THE GAME 2016-2017”

http://static-3eb8.kxcdn.com/documents/60/Laws%20of%20the%20Game_16-17_Digital_Eng.pdf

More of this please!

A great match from the ref with only a few big talking points. In fact if all reviews would be like this… I think our referee reviewing team would be out of a job by the end of the season…. And you know what? I wish we were to be out of a job by the end of the season. But somehow I doubt this…

Let me start with the first half score. A first half score non weighted of 88,2%. That is almost as good as it can get. Almost a PGMO Mike Riley score one could say.

If we put weight on those decisions the score drops to 83.3%. And that is because the ref made one big and very unusual mistake. A mistake that I must admit have never seen before in the PL.

When he correctly awarded a penalty against Hull for handball and gave the player from Hull a correct red card… he then forgot one basic part of the laws. I must admit that I didn’t see it at the time but that is why we work in a team to help each other and that is why video evidence to help the referees on the field is oh so important!

If a player gets a red card he has to leave the field and also go into the dressing room or at least go and stay away from viewing distance of the pitch. If he wants to stand in the tunnel to the dressing room is no problem. But he cannot be near the pitch. And certainly not on the pitch.

And that is exact where Livermore was when Alexis missed his penalty: he was ON THE FIELD!  So he wasn’t even off the field at the moment the penalty was given.

Now I know that Alexis missing the penalty had nothing to do with Livermore still being on the field or not. But we judge the ref here and the rules are clear about this: you don’t restart the match till that player has left the field and is out of sight.  So I must say and it pains me but that was a big technical error from the referee.

The only noteworthy mistake he made was when he punished Cazorla who blocked the ball and then was run over by the Hull player and he got a foul against him. Completely out of line with the rest of his first half performance.

On to the second half: around his birthday minutes he also was a bit missing as he missed a clear foul from Clucas on Iwobi and seconds later made up for it by missing a clear foul from Mustafi.  But that were his only mistakes in the second half. Giving him a score of 90,4% not weighted and even a score of 93,7% weighted!!!!

About the penalty for Hull I must say that I was bewildered at first why he didn’t give it immediately. Cech committed himself and went for the ball, missed it and then Mbokani went over Cech. I know Mbokani could have jumped over Cech without making contact but Cech was there throwing himself as a waiting opportunity to get a penalty for Hull and Mbokani grabbed it with both feet.

The ref first waved it away but then changed his mind and I think that was down to something said in his ears by one of the assistants. His score would have been lower if he hadn’t given the penalty. The yellow card was also correct as Cech clearly tried to play the ball but didn’t get to it and with Mbokani going away from the goal it would have been a yellow card even in the old system.

The final score over the whole 90 minutes was 89,4%. And with weight on it the score is 88,6%. So a very high and impressive score. If only he had paid a bit more attention to Livermore his total score would have been above 90%.

Total number of incorrect decisions was 4 in total!! And 3 of them were against Arsenal and one of them was the Livermore incident so take that away and we have a 2/1 bias with just 3 in field incidents being wrong.

As I said at the start: more of this please!

Recent Posts

From days gone by

21 September 2003:  After a 0-0 draw at Manchester United, Arsenal players were fined by FA for their part in a “mass brawl” after the match.  The 6th league match of the unbeaten season.

You can find 5000 Arsenal anniversaries arranged day by day on the Arsenal History Society site.

 

 

26 comments to Ref Review: Hull – Arsenal. An extraordinary performance by the referee.

  • Rich

    I know I’m too much of an idealist on this issue but I don’t think it was strange at all that East wasn’t going to give Hull the pen. Not in the context of an individual decision, anyway.

    One of the replays- front on to the incident, similar to refs view- made it so clear that Mbokani had done that unnatural Rooneyesque tip forward while running at speed, point your feet and drag them against the player in front of you (suppose I should just call it a Roon special) to make contact.

    I know it’s not that simple an issue, with a good example of why coming when Remy hurdled a flying keeper, lost his balance and mucked up his shot (but that should have been solved anyway by the ref in awarding the pen after Remy had jumped and stumbled *).

    Still, though…I love it that a ref was prepared to call a dive a dive in that situation, as i think he was.

    For me, anytime you can avoid contact you do, and it’s as natural (until pro coaches and pressures are involved at least) on the field as breathing, whereas doing a Roon special always looks and is completely unnatural, based as it is upon the idea of what it would look like if someone clattered into you and you couldn’t avoid it, instead of being the real thing, which can’t quite be faked or replicated, as it involves laws of gravity and suchlike.

    Anyway, I know I’m unrealistic but still… can’t help dreaming, and it was as though East provided a glimpse of how the game could be but, alas, won’t be.

    He’s got one of the most inscrutable faces I’ve ever seen on a ref; would be great if behind it there’s a bit of a hero, instead of just another pgmol man who had an oddly excellent day.

    * I’m assuming that’s possible Walter as the shot he took was compromised by his loss of balance having hurdled a foul challenge.

  • Jambug

    A truly remarkable performance in the context of years gone by.

    I and a couple of others have said that on a superficial level, you know, just watching in real time, things have seemed much better this year. The fact that under the spotlight this feeling isn’t born out to quite the same extent doesn’t stop me from feeling just a tad optimistic as to what might happen for the rest of the season.

    Again, as I have said elsewhere a couple of times already, how the referee performs this weekend will be a big test as to where we really stand.

  • Max Kerr

    While watching, I thought he was having a good game – glad to have it borne out by you excellent reviewers!

    This weekend: – a) Martin Atkinson b) Anthony Taylor or c) Mike Dean

    I think Riley has been saving them serially for the tough games. If it’s someone else, I’ll begin to believe this might be our year…

  • MickHazel

    Walter
    Here is Mark Halsey’s verdict on the Livermore red card, he doesn’t see it the same way as you (and me).

    ‘Mark Halsey’s Verdict
    Roger is correct to give the penalty but I believe he’s wrong in law on two counts. Has Livermore denied a goal or a goal scoring opportunity? There has to be doubt there because the goalkeeper was there and he had every chance of saving the shot. So in my opinion Livermore hasn’t denied a goal scoring opportunity so in law that decision is incorrect.’

    I disagree with Halsey’s assessment on the grounds that the fact the goalie MAY have saved the shot is irrelevant according to the wording of the law.
    Surely the handball denied the obvious chance of it being a goal scoring opportunity, therefore the red card was correct. I do not see where Halsey is coming from.

  • Gord

    The Hull penalty could have been an instance of both Cech and Mbokani being shown a yellow. If Cech doesn’t contact Mbokani, there would be no card to Cech. At the point of contact, Mbokani is already in the act of diving. So the dive would be the first foul, the contact by Cech the second foul.

    But, I can live with what Walter suggests. If nothing else he has way more experience than me, and at higher levels. I am more pedantic than Walter.

    And Halsey and Walter are allowed to differ on opinion. The way the law is worded, it is possible for both people to be correct in some circumstances.

  • Excellent work guys. You have covered yourselves in glory with this one. PGMOL could use your skill, but I doubt if they will ever think of availing themselves of this excellent opportunity.

  • Jambug

    MickHazel

    “I disagree with Halsey’s assessment on the grounds that the fact the goalie MAY have saved the shot is irrelevant according to the wording of the law.”

    Exactly.

    Under any other circumstances once a player is through one on one with the keeper it is deemed a goal scoring opportunity.

    In cases where the player has only got the goalkeeper to beat there is never any consideration given to whether he may save it or not is there, so why should there be any given in this case ?

  • Pete

    Max – it is Michael Oliver. Could have been a lot worse…

  • Jambug

    Pete

    Agree

    I really like Mr Oliver.

    Seeing him as the referee I am now pretty confident we will win.

    I will be truly gutted if he stitches us up.

  • Gord

    OT: Corruption News

    There has been another data leak of financial records (like Panama). This time from the Bahamas. Will more football personalities be tripped up?

  • Jambug

    EFL draw selected ties.

    Arsenal v Reading

    Man City v Man Utd

    Liverpool v Spurs

    West Ham V Chelsea

  • Jambug

    Sorry

    Man Utd are at home, not that it will make any difference.

  • Pat

    This is wonderful – wonderful! Please, referees, more of the same!

  • Gord

    Okay Jambug, who is going to referee Man vs Man? Which Man is going to pay the referee more?

    There were two news articles I seen this morning about potential referee corruption in Asia. Neither article mentioned any involvement of PGMO in training referees in that area. Hopefully it stays that way, we don’t need PGMO ruining football worldwide.

  • omgarsenal

    The interpretation of a hand ball, in the penalty area, or elsewhere is always the same:

    1) Was the hand moved to the ball in order to stop,redirect or slow it down,voluntarily?
    2) Was the player handling the ball so close to the shooter that he had no chance to move his hand out of the way, even if he moved it to the ball?
    3) Did the ball hit an immobile hand that was in an ordinary playing position or placed to protect the opponent from injury? Here the Law stipulates different areas that can legitimately be protected for men and women, but does not allow either to move the hand to the ball!
    4) Did the handball stop a clear goal scoring opportunity?
    5) Were there any fouls committed before the handball by either side?
    6) In the rare case where advantage is given because the goal is almost certain to be scored due to the deflection of the ball by the defender, then the foul can be delayed but the caution must be given, regardless.
    7) Keep in mind that the hand includes every moveable part of the arm, including the shoulder joint….thus making a simple call more difficult.

    I used to joke with players when there was a handball that I felt did not meet the criteria above…… I’d say that I hadn’t called the foul because the player only used one hand! I stopped doing that after I found that some players entirely lacked a sense of humour as .did some coaches and managers!
    The best handball expert I ever refereed was Beckenbauer. He would trap the ball on his shoulder joint and pop it over the opponent’s head, then running on to it after it landed a few feet away…..the League finally caught on and he got carded a few times…so he soon modified his technique!

  • AllanC

    This is an amazing score for Roger East considering the usual scores. However, there was a Hull fan on 606 on Saturday slating the ref something awful and saying that Hull never get the decisions against the big teams. Maybe a case of see what you want to see ?

  • Robido

    I fear that the establishment including former English referees do not agree with your assessment. The “you are the ref” site that is normally insightful slates Mr East’s performance. Their match analysis is hardly complimentary. The discussion is only bearable due to the subtitles and the hackett article sums it up.
    http://you-are-the-ref.com/hacketts-blog-roger-east-needed-help-not-exposure/

  • Jambug

    Allan C

    With regards to this, it is no surprise a Hull City fan may have this view. There is no doubt some Arsenal fans will still think the Referee had a bad game. Every Club has fans who will just see what they want.

    That is human nature.

    The problem is the BBC saw it fit to air such an obviously distorted view.

    Another example of there biased agenda against Arsenal and I say this even with the possibility, as I didn’t hear it, that they put him right, which I very much doubt.

  • MickHazel

    Robido
    Interesting to see Hacketts assessment.
    He says
    “It was not a denial of an obvious goal so should not have resulted in a sending off.”
    He has left out the
    “obvious goal scoring opportunity” which Walter uses and merely says “obvious goal”, which is not the same thing.
    I am now left somewhat confused as to which is the correct interpretation. Walter help please.

  • Jambug

    Robido

    Thanks for the link…..I think ?

    Just been and had a look. What an absolute joke.

    All this goes to show is just how much the media are hating how Arsenal are seeming to get a fairer crack of the whip from the Referees.

    Stopping the ball heading for goal with the hand IS without any doubt the denial of a clear goal scoring opportunity.

    It’s a ‘one-on-one’ ball versus goalie in the same way a player through on goal is a ‘one-on-one’ player and ball versus goalie. The fact the keeper may or may not have saved it, is equally irrelevant in both cases.

    To suggest that East got this so catastrophically wrong as to suggest he needs suspending is utter bollocks:

    “I felt for Roger East last weekend because you could see that his confidence was low. For his own sake, as much as anyone else’s, he needed to take a break.”

    He got it right FFS.

    Okay he made a technical error with the player exiting the pitch. An poor miss no doubt but hardly a hanging offence. One thing I’m sure of is, had he spotted it and allowed a retake from which we scored, he would of got stick for that.

    He didn’t get the penalty call initially correct, who knows why, but the team of officials got it right in the end, surely a reason for at least a little praise.

    What Mr East has to realise is that whatever he does, when it comes to doing anything that favours Arsenal, he will never be right.

    The thing is I have seen far far worse performances from Clattenberg and was rewarded with FA and European Cup finals.

    But the difference was the mistakes where in favour of Manchester United, therefore just part and parcel of the refereeing landscape we are all expected to embrace.

    All we can do is hope the referees are starting to referee as per the rules of the game rather than as per the wishes of these numb sculls in the media, but it seems the pressure on them is being cranked up and up and up, on a daily basis.

  • MickHazel

    Jambug
    Good post and I agree but Hackett didn’t use the phrase “obvious goal scoring opportunity” he said “obvious goal”.
    So is Hackett re-writing the relevant law to suit his own (or someone else’s) agenda because I have never heard “obvious goal” used before, have you?

  • Jambug

    MickHazel

    No I haven’t. I believe you have asked Walter for clarification on this. I will be very interested to see what he says.

    As I said, it seems to me the media are getting themselves in a right old pickle. They are seeing Arsenal get a fair shake from the refs and realise just how positively it impacts on our results, and they hate it.

    The penalties alone, all of which are 100% correct, have earned us points, and could of earned us more had the one against Liverpool been converted.

    As I have said a few times, this weekend will be a big indicator as to where we stand.

    If Oliver puts in the decent performance I hope, and fully expect him to do, I think we will win, but more than that I will be at least hopeful for the future.

  • omgarsenal

    Mike Hazel and Jambug- here is a clarification about denying an obvious or clear goal scoring opportunity as per my point 4 in my earlier response:

    1) Since NO goal scoring opportunity is 100% certain in Football, the Laws use the word opportunity rather than certainty.

    2) Basically the Law envisions a situation where a player would be denied a clear and almost certain goal because of an adversary(other than the keeper in his penalty area) voluntarily or inappropriately blocking the ball with his hand,arm etc.

    3) The problems with interpretation come from what represents a CLEAR goal scoring opportunity. However, that does not affect the handball decision but is rather used to determine if the player is cautioned and the freekick(penalty) awarded.

    4) Most officials are told to initially ignore where the handball occurred but rather to decide quickly whether it was in fact a foul, based on the 7 points in my previous post. IF the official decides that all the criteria are met, then he or she has to award a direct free kick if outside the penalty area or a penalty, if the offense was committed by a defender(other than the keeper) in his or her penalty area AND caution the player as well..

  • MickHazel

    Thanks omgarsenal
    Having reread the rule quotes in the review and your clarification I can see no evidence to support Hackett’s and Mark Halseys interpretation that East was wrong by issuing a red card.

  • Jambug

    omgarsenal

    As I thought, it’s utter bollocks.

    It’s actually quite funny seeing what a tizzy they’re all getting themselves in over this.

  • omgarsenal

    I guess if it had been united or the other big Clubs…then nothing would have been said!

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