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Man C v Arsenal: the commentary

  • Arsenal XI:

    Cech, Bellerin, Gabriel, Koscielny, Monreal, Coquelin, Xhaka, Walcott, Ozil, Iwobi, Alexis

  • Subs on the beach

    Ospina, Holding, Gibbs, Elneny, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Lucas, Giroud

     

By Tony Attwood

Walter is having another of his Arsenal Belgium sessions so I’ve been roped in for this one.

Only one team change from Bulldog’s predictions – Iwobi starts and the Ox on the beach.  No sign of Jenkinson still, and Ramsey obviously still not ready after his latest injury.  Arsenal fans can be heard on the Sky feed  as Arsenal kick off.

Bits and pieces at the start as ball goes back and forth with no one getting very far and possession move from one team to another.  Fair number of empty seats in the stadium; bet the Telegraph does not mention that, or photoshops the pic, and pretends its the Ems.

2nd minute City on the attack, City player by the corner flag falls over and crowd demand punishment for Theo.  30 seconds later same again for Gabriel.  Shame they don’t have their equivalent of our team of referees and consultants .

Then a beautiful move on four minutes as Cech to Bellerin to Alexis to Theo who dummies the keeper and slots it in.  His 11th of the season.  I wonder if the Guardian will be doing their “Arsenal have only two players with goals in double figures” gibberish at the end of the season.

Six minutes City come close.  Sterling receives the ball and heads it wide.  A let off for Arsenal to be fair.

City raise another attack on 7 minutes but get themselves in a muddle but for a moment they are dominating particularly on the right.  This looks like the counter attacking game as Iwobi nearly makes the break through to Alexis.

I’ll be interested to see the stats on possession but it looks mostly City.   Arsenal need to hold onto this lead.  Kos looks late with a challenge – he just didn’t get there on time and he and the ref share a little joke as the free kick is given.   It is central, 28 yards out for City, but as they take it City is offside to the galloping forwards.

Arsenal pumping long balls forward, City trying all the time to get Stirling away.   Arsenal not looking too secure, and although I can see the value of counter attacking this is making me nervous.   13 minutes another shot saved, Cech waves the team up.    Only 10% of the game played in the City defensive areas.

Toure falls over but Arsenal get the ball and on 15 mins go for the first major attack since the goal.  .But City come back and Arsenal break it up through Iwobi and he starts the counter attack.  It breaks down but Arsenal get the board back.  It is that sort of game, we have a go, you have a go, now our turn.

16 mins Arsenal go forward again but it breaks down (told you so) City come back but now there is a bit more space.  Alexis on the right across the whole pitch to Theo.  Arsenal fans can be heard clearly.  City fans seem to be very quiet indeed.   17 mins and the commentators have given up on the game and are debating whether Ozil and Alexis will stay, probably because Arsenal have the upper hand tactically and TV doesn’t do tactics (too complex for the viewers).

18 mins and it has slowed down, Arsenal still conceding possession.  Iwobi again gets the ball from a broken Man C attack, but can’t get the pass across to Alexis   And again Arsenal retreat.  Man City try new tactics of playing on their half way line.  Alexis forces them back.

21 mins and it is happening again and again but the game has got slower and slower. City get a shot,  Oh and Burnley are winning against the very tiny totts.

23 mins crowd silent, except Arsenal fans.  Arsenal just waiting and taking their time City players going slow, Alexis giving advice to anyone and everyone.  Lovely TV pic of a throw in that could go either way it goes to Arsenal and a man in the stands opposite leaps up and rushes forwards gesticulating wildly at the ref.  All over a throw in.

Possession all City, but Alexis on his own keeping them in their half.   1 v XI.  Not bad

26 mins City get run an attack and a corner.  TV has the opportunity to blame Kos.  And oh what a shame Tinies have equalised.  Still 90% City.  173 passes to Arsenal’s 68.  Another attack breaks down.  It”s being played at the speed of an end of season match between two mid table teams who can’t go up or down.   Mr Wenger goes on the prowl

I think Arsenal are waiting for City to get frustrated.

Then suddenly Gabriel clears but it hits Bellerin on the head and Cech saves – the nearest City have come to a goal for 25 minutes.

31 mins a rare Arsenal attack, ball comes across to Theo who has his back to goal and tries an over the shoulder shot but it is wide.

32 mins Alexis tries to take on the entire game early makes it but it is a bit much.  City attack break dow again and Arsenal once more defending although they are defending a bit higher now I think but Wenger waves them back.   I wonder if I could get backing for a movie called “The Silence of the Airport.”

TV is now giving a list of players that have left AFC  and gone to Arsenal; they are getting anxious.  There is an Man C attack but it breaks down and Arsenal counter.  It comes to Ozil and he gets a corner.  Eventually header comes to Xhaka and his header is wide.Man City has had 5 attempts to Arsenal’s three but the only attempt on target was the goal.

City are still dangerous however but their own ineptness and their fouling is causing them problems.  Silva get a yellow right in front of the ref.  TV critical of Arsenal not pushing forwards enough when a six man Arsenal attack ends with a Bellerin shot over the bar.   City slowing the game down but allowing Arsenal to intercept.  But we could do with two more goals.

The level of fouling by City is getting ludicrous with 40 mins gone and City now attacking on the half way line and taking a long time to get forwards.  But they have obviously made an appeal to the ref as Arsenal breathing is being penalised.

The free kick leads to a close chance which goes behind for a City corner.   Arsenal defend it.  But we are told over and over this is when Arsenal are vulnerable, before half time.  Alexis however breaks away for a counter.  It comes to nothing and City try counter attacking since it works for Arsenal.  A City corner.  Alexis is hobbling bady.  the corner ends up with Cech.

43 mins beautiful counter attack ends up with the ball in the net but is ruled offside.

Nearly half time and City get another corner with 1 minute of added time.  A free kick inside the centre centre and the minute is up and the ref blows.   The City manager complains to the fourth official.   1-0 to the Untold Predictors.  We’re playing counter attacking but not perfectly, and I am not convinced.

Sagna on for the second half.  City kick off and go on the attack, but it goes out for an Arsenal throw City get it back but then a pass from the half way line goes right through for an Arsenal kick.  Then another City attack goes the same way.   But the third time City find a way through as Arsenal defence seems to melt away, Sane scores.  Looking at it again it really looks like the defence not coming out focused.  Goal was fractionally offside but really the defence should have been much more on top of that.

Now suddenly City have woken up and the crowd certainly have.   Monreal goes down with a head injury.  Arsenal really really really need to wake up.  Yaya Toure screams at the linesman and gets a yellow for so doing.  Coquelin down with an injury but looks like he can run it off.  We really need to get hold of this game now to be able to re-establish the counter attack game.

Iwobi looking lively, Bellerin has a chance and shoots rather than passes it.  Mr Wenger frowns.

Game looks different as if both sides want to play counter attacking, with no real urgency but on 54 mins and Arsenal cannot clear it.  Crowd is getting noisy again and this doesn’t look so smooth for Arsenal.   Yaya Toure puts a pass through which splits the defence.  Unfortunately for him it splits the attack too and goes out for a goal kick.

City attacking one side then the other and Arsenal are just waiting which surely can’t be the best ploy.  And when they do get the ball back they don’t seem to have the right counter attacking game plan.  57 mins a rare sortie into the City half breaks down and then again we are just onto City all the way.   When Arsenal get the ball they are trying dinky passes to get out of their own penalty area and it doesn’t work.

Sagna does sign language to suggest the linesman has mental health issues but gets away with the awful insult.

The hour is up and Alexis at last gets the ball but can’t get far beyond the half way line.  City come back but Cech is alert and cuts out the ball for a corner.   Another City attack, more Arsenal hesitant defensiveness and another City shot just wide.

62 mins another City attack just breaks down Arsenal proceed slowly which is not right for this stage of the game.    Over about eight passes Arsenal give it to City four times and they reciprocate in equal measure.

But City again come away with it, and are totally in charge.  They are now taking pot shots, it bounces back each time and they have another go.

65 minutes the Ox comes on for Iwobi but immediately we have more of the same, City attacking and the counter attack breaks down so quickly,

66 mins a rare Arsenal attack with the Ox but it breaks down yet again and City counter, that breaks down and Arsenal are for a second time in the City half.

68 mins a slight change, and a coherent Arsenal attack.  Have we seen the problems through, and can now do proper counter attacking?  I’m not convinced.   City come back but are moving more slowly.   Another muddle in the middle and Cech saves a deflected shot.

Horrible mess in defence means Cech to the rescue but there is a little more Arsenal coherence in coming forwards.  Not enough to make me relax but a bit.   But then Sterling gets an amazing cross field ball from within his own half which lands perfectly he cuts inside and scores.  Oh dear.

Now presumably we ought to see a different game although for the moment Arsenal have not changed.

74 mins Giroud comes on and Coquelin goes off, so we have the change.  Can Arsenal change their style immediately – that is the question.  Ozil needs to get in the game.   But still City are getting away with it and hit the outside of the post.

Elneny gets ready to come on as the news comes through that Tottenham are ahead.  Can’t even rely on them.  The Ox goes off – appears he is injured.

City now looking very much as if they want more.  That looks dangerous.  On the attacking front Theo seems to have vanished.  De Bruyne commits a nasty foul on Gabriel.

Ten minutes to go and we need to see Arsenal playing a different game, playing to their strengths.  We do get an attack involving Ozil and Theo so that is better but we need more.

Elneny is playing further forwards, and playing well in that position.   There is more here now and the possession is mostly Arsenal.  Five minutes to go; Ozil is fouled ten yards out. to the left. He takes the free kick.  Ball is punched out by the keeper and Arsenal keep possession but are forced back.  Xhaka makes a mess of a pass and Elneny gets a yellow which aggrieves him deeply.  There’s a delay while the City player gets treatment.

Free kick is aimless, but the ball pings back and forth.  Nothing happening with just one minute to go in normal time.   Ball goes out and City ballboy refuses to throw it back to Arsenal until ordered by the ref.

4 minutes added time.

City attack, Cech saves Arsenal attack but give it away again, City free kick on their right and try for a scrum by the corner rather than trying to attack.   Arsenal play themselves out of trouble, back into it, and out again but only 2 minutes left and Arsenal can’t get going.

Cech has the ball 90 seconds to go, but it breaks down.  Gabriel gets a yellow for a foul on the halfway line.

Times up, Arsenal start to attack but Bellerin pulled back.  Ozil tries to take it from the wrong place, Cech rushes up and takes it to Ozil to force him to speed up but the whistle goes.  We’ve lost.

The opening tactics were right in my opinion, but when the game changed we needed a very swift change of tactics, but couldn’t do it.

So it goes.

 

 

 

 

 

99 comments to Man C v Arsenal: the commentary

  • Josif

    We are now nine points behind the leaders and I think the title bid is pretty much over. Yes, everything is possible but I don’t think we have 9 points more than Chelsea in the tank, especially not with this sort of fatigue and lack of inspiration across all lines of our team. We have dropped 11 points this season from winning positions, coincidentally all in big matches against the teams that are expected to finish in Top 7 (Liverpool, Spuds, Everton, Man City). Two exceptions were a home match against Chelsea where we thrashed them to bits and the one against Manchester United where we scored a late equalizer.

    In 70th minute Čech had completed more passes than Xhaka. That says it all about our game today.

    Sadly, it seems that we had another point taken away from us by the referee as Sterling’s goal should have been chalked off as Silva interfered from the offside position.

    We have two home matches before the end of the first half of the season – The Boxing Day match against Tony Pulis’ West Brom and Alan Pardew’s Crystal Palace in the first day of 2017. Six points in those two matches are imperative now that Manchester United on 5th position have cut the gap between us to just four points.

    COYG!

  • porter

    You could argue that the first was offside and the second had a man in front of the keeper , but really that would have put a gloss on a very insipid performance. Once City upped the tempo we slipped into a kind of stupor and gave no impression that we were likely to get back into the match. If they are as tired as they look , you have to ask why.

  • omgarsenal

    OH Thank God another defeat for the aaa and whiners to celebrate!

  • Polo

    The team need to re-group and re-focus and get back to basics, it seem the players are trying to many fancy moves and they are making way to many passing and dribbling mistakes, especially when the opposition assert pressure.

    Another goal from Monreal’s side, maybe it’s time to give Gibbs a chance.

  • porter

    No celebration here , totally gutted and extremely frustrated.

  • Mandy Dodd

    All in all just a pretty poor week. Not helped bury other results ALL going against us, and even youth teams getting in on the act.
    Looks like two goals offside, but fractions, and poor defending, as with the Defending with the Everton goals.
    They need to see this as a wake up call, not just the players, think the coaches and manager need to I still a bit more ability to hang onto a lead, and to maybe switch things around a little when under pressure.
    Having said that, the players looked fatigued in the last two second halfs.
    Improvements needed, think we really need Mustafis organisational skills back, though Gab seems to have played ok

  • Tom

    Yosif
    First , your pick for the title looks better and better by the minute, kudos.

    The NBC crew drew the line across Arsenal back line and Sane was even with Kos.
    On the second goal Cech said he was unsighted by his defenders and saw the ball very late. When asked if Silve was in his line of sight, he wasn’t sure.
    That , and the replays suggest he wasn’t .

    Both calls were very close but upon reviews I can’t have much of a problem with either.

  • Norman14

    The Sane goal and the one that Iwobi had disallowed at the end of the first half were identical, yet one was offside and one wasn’t. If we’d gone in 2-0 up at half time, the 2nd half would have been a lot different.

    As well as that, Atkinson let them waste time really badly when they went in front. Ball boys not giving us the ball, their players kicking the ball away at our fee kicks (well, at the two he gave us). Maybe we need to learn these dirty tactics and use them at The Ems. Perhaps that is what PGMOL want.

    If you can’t beat them, join them.

  • Norman14

    Tom,
    on Sky when they drew the line Sane WAS offside. Cech said he saw someone out of his eye corner but didn’t know who it was. Strangely, Souness said he was interfering but Thierry said he wasn’t.

    Seems like we have very few friends in the FA, PGMOL or indeed, in the media!

  • Steve Vallins

    First half just before halftime Monreal offside by a leg Sane goal possibly the same linesman offside more than Monreal but not called it’s strange how fine margins Arsenal are judged
    The studio all agree Monreal is offside but no comment on there first goal just Arsenal’s bad defending
    Was I am I seeing this with red tinted eyes what do you reckon thanks , of my chest

  • Zedsaunt

    Fatigue, lack of intensity, six points lost. Long stretches in the last two games where the team hasn’t been there. Re-focus is needed. Still more than half the season left. Recreating a team capable of winning without the input of Santi appears to be momentarily stymied.

    Much for Mr Wenger to consider. He’ll, without a doubt, be greatly assisted. COYG.

  • Josif

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXz2fJrJ8kU

    The Monreal situation at 6:17. He was clearly ahead of the last defender in the moment of the pass.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Norman14, trouble is, we cannot join them, our players will not get away with it.
    Sadly, think this will continue as long as Mr Wenger Is manager, and am starting to get the impression he is realising it. Not really referring to the fractional decisions today, but those in the last couple of months, or indeed whenever a Wenger team threatens for the title during Mike Riley’s tenure in the pgmol.
    I wonder if some of our fortunes with refs would change if……say Eddie Howe was in charge, not wishing that for a moment, but just wondering……

  • Alex

    Same …same …same for 13 years.The only thing that is not changed is one man throughout all this time and lets try to change that.

    Before it was the money issue and now that he has spent to the tune of 90 mil what excuse has he got.

  • Florian

    Their central midfield pressed ours continuously, and broke down our transitions. We could never get our passing going, and that’s why Cech had to resort to long balls, effectively handing over the possession. I’m not sure about their second goal, but the first was fractionally offside, only for the linesman to trot back some 10m behind the play. Make of that what you will. Ozil was also pressurized, setting him back in areas where he couldn’t be effective, so, no wonder he disappeared from the game and our offensive play suffered. And when I say pressurized, I mean roughed up. Twatkinson at his best (or worst). Oh well. We will likely see normal service resumed with our next game. I refuse to believe we are out of the title race, but yes, it’s becoming difficult. But as long as we have a chance we have to keep going.

  • Zuruvi

    I’m disappointed after another defeat.
    I’m even more disappointed by Thierry Henry and his stupid punditry.

    Thierry Henry very much sounds like the bitter and twisted Ian Wright or that boy called Paul Merson.

    Ian Wright is Paul Merson Lite.

    And Thierry is Ian Wright Lite.

    Today we once again lost because two offside goals were allowed to stand by the referees.
    If such decisions were happening to the media’s favourite teams like ManUre and the Poo the FA and the Premier League would have taken action against the Pigmob.

  • Zuruvi

    Thierry was today defending the refs and saying they were not offside.
    What a fool!!!.

  • Josif

    If the referees are the main reason for most of our bad results in the last eight years, why The Board don’t try to stop that discrimination against Arsenal?

    That is my question I have asked number of times, especially during last season Riley’s campaign “Let’s make Leicester champions only to frustrate Arsenal”.

    Mr Wenger is left out to fight against the windmills all by himself (especially on days like this when most of our players don’t turn up for 45 or 90 minutes). Arsenal FC act like Stockholm’s Syndrome FC by not making any actions against PGMO and FA for the damage Arsenal FC have been suffering due to poor decisions from the refs. We are talking about millions of pounds of the merit money (each position is worth around 1.28 million pounds) over the years.

    Why are you silent, Stan?

  • Polo

    Sane’s goal was just a whisker offside but that was way to close to call so in my opinion ref was correct to give benefit of the doubt. However, the second goal I think shouldn’t stand as Silva was offside and made an attempt at the ball in front of Cech, surely it would have distracted Cech for a split second but either way it was another poor performance after our first goal.

    9 points behind is tough but not impossible, Chelsea was way behind before their defeat to us and then after they went on a winning streak. It’s still a long way to go, and teams will have injuries to key players and the dynamics will change.

    One thing I like changed is for our defenders to use their body to charge and block the ball instead of turning their body away from the ball. I think had Kos didn’t turn and he use his body to block, the second goal wouldn’t have occurred. Anyway, I’m frustrated and disappointed but I still believe and support the team and manager. Let get back on track and be more ruthless.

  • porter

    Strange that Tom because Sky showed it as off and then made up a story about Kos playing it onside because of a deflection . I don’t think the law has changed about ” offside as the ball is kicked “.

  • Al

    Predictably blind Tom is trying to spin that both city goals were legitimate. Well here is a quote from the Evening Standard;

    “But both goals saw marginal offside decisions go against Arsenal, first as Sane was deemed onside when Silva played his through ball though replays suggested part of his foot may have been past Laurent Koscielny. The Spanish midfielder intervened in controversial fashion for City’s winner as well, seemingly running in front of Cech and attempting to divert Sterling’s shot.”

    And in case you are thinking the standard are being biased towards Arsenal, if you read the whole report they’re scathing about our play, so they would hardly say city goals were offside without reason. We can’t comment on your channel as noone really knows if what you say is what happened, but it’s immaterial anyway, those that care in the UK media picked it up that both goals were offside.

    Here is the thing; I find a man who denies and refuses to acknowledge any injustices they can see being done against someone, so that they can justify attacking them, as being spineless and cowardly. And Tom, you have a lot of form in this regard. I’m not attacking you, just making obvious observations (today being a good case in point).

    City scored two illegal goals from an offside position, that’s what we should be talking about here.

  • Al

    Zuruvi,
    I wrote Thierry off a long time ago. In fact I deliberately lower the volume or change channels when he’s on. He’s a Judas of the highest order.

  • porter

    I don’t listen to pundits in fact much to Tony’s chagrin I use my eyes to form my opinions.

  • Al

    Josif
    Agree. Wenger coming out with “enough is enough” is as clearest a sign as we’ll ever see that this has been boiling inside for far too long. Why don’t the board support him? And those in the equally complicit and spineless media? Is it because he’s a Frenchman?

    Look, the man is getting robbed blind and we can’t continue pretending nothing is wrong. To hell with political correctness when people are cheating blatantly like this. Why is it most of our defeats have a whiff of controversy? I don’t mind losing fair and square, but like this? There’s serious rot at play here, which is plain obvious to see, but people want to turn a blind eye and victimise Wenger. He’s left to fight the pgmob machinations by himself. He’ll most likely get banned now, but I fully support his coming out today with that statement. It had to be said. Unfortunately the media will only ridicule him, instead of examining his comments.

  • Tom

    Al
    Having my eye sight and integrity questioned by you is a complement of sorts.
    Coming from someone who’s never disliked any wrong call that went Arsenal way and even used a Nixonian argument ( if the president does it than its not illegal ) to defend Coquelin bad tackles in the past.

    Al, you are the gift that keeps on giving 🙂

  • Al

    Tom
    Were today’s goals onside or not? You site NBC showing a line that didn’t suggest any offside, but sky showed an offside… And I quoted the standard saying both goals were offside too.., why don’t you address that? Because it doesn’t suit your agenda. You’d rather talk about comments I made about Coq a year or two ago…please.

    Can you be honest for once and call it like it is.

  • Al

    I’m not going to allow you to sidetrack me into a supposedly nixonian quote I might have made or not, did city profit from two illegal goals? Address that or shut up.

  • MickHazel

    Here is my two penny’s worth for what it’s worth.
    Regardless of the rights or wrongs of the two possible offsides, we were absolutely terrible, especially in the second half. First half we were OK, not brilliant but OK. But we just didn’t show up at all after the break, worse than the Everton game.
    I do not blame the officials, I blame us. We got what we deserved. Nothing.
    We have hit a run of really bad form. It happens.

  • Florian

    Al,

    NBC pushed the offside line as far as they could, and still Sane’s foot was ahead of Kos. We had 2 goals chalked off in that 6-3 defeat for this exact reason – that Giroud and Bendtner were a few inches offside.

  • SamuelAkinsolaAdebosin

    Our suffered 2-1 away defeat to Man City today was not what we had bargained for. At least a draw would have been acceptable by us than a defeat.

    When I read on the net that the majority of the Gunners went partying just after they’ve lost to Everton, I was taken a back. And I asked myself, why that happiness and joy up to the extend of partying? Ahead of a crucial big game, I think that was a show of wrong mentality by the partying Gunners. They should not repeat that kind of a thing.

    I think Le Prof should have rejuvinated his team that started our match at the Etihad today with some changes done to the team that started the Everton match and see what will happen. But rather, Le Prof largely went ahead to start the same stale team that started our lose match to Everton in our away game today against Man City. I think this singular overlook by Le Prof has led to us to come out of this match with no point.

    Understand, the OX is hamstrung but why his inclusion in our match day squad by Le Prof? But Gibbs should have been preferred to start ahead of Monreal and Holding at CB while Paulista is moved to RB and Perez starts at LW instead of Iwobi. Bellerin on the bench should have been made to come on for the underperformer Walcott in the 2nd half despite his conversion Alexis’ assist.

    We are not out of the title as been insunuated in some quarters. We are still very much in it but on the condition of, if Arsenal will put their apt together to win our next 2 matches against WBA and C Palace. Then and then only we’ll be back into contention for the title at the halfway mark of the season.

  • Tom

    Al
    Quoting sources using wards like ” may have been ” and “seemingly ”
    Is hardly an example of a water tight case Al, but in the world of innuendos, wher you make your living ,these are probably as concrete as can get 🙂

  • Al

    Tom,
    And what are your reliable sources? Sky, the standard (for your info the standard was the first article I read, sure there’s more), and everyone else here agrees both calls were off, apart from only you.

    Your comments that NBC showed a line showing the player to be onside is a blatant lie, coz sky (who apparently had the rights so had control of the footage) drew a line showing Sane to be offside. You lie, Tom. Why? Just because you hate Wenger? Just be open and admit you hate Wenger, you might get more respect than being a closet hater.

    You are appearing like the type of person who will let an innocent man go to jail, even though you will be knowing they’re not guilty, but you won’t come forward to say so because you hate them. Evil.

  • Norman14

    Mandy:

    I think Arsene did a deal with the devil asking for “The Invincibles” season. What the devil didn’t tell him was that you will never win another title Mr Wenger and I’ve put Mike Riley in charge of PGMOL to make sure you don’t.

  • SamuelAkinsolaAdebosin

    The Sane goal was a clear offside. Even a blind man can see it was. But I didn’t notice seen any Gunner or seeing some Gunners raising his hand or their hands in protest of the Sane’s offside goal to Martin Atkinson. Why?

  • Alex

    @SamuelAkinsolaAdebosin

    Rest assured Le Prof will come up with the same failure as usual and i can put my money confidently simply because is the same man with the same approach.
    It is 13 years for Christ sake …..

  • Tom

    Al
    I did address it already, something you might’ve noticed if you weren’t too busy slandering me.
    If the British media show a different line than my state-side network, then I can’t be responsible for any discrepancies.
    Also, if Sane was inches off then it falls into each leagues jurisdiction how to make these calls. Many FA’s give advantage to attackers to make the game more exciting.

    The second case is more of a judgment call . From Cech’s reactions in real time he wasn’t unsighted , or his professionalism should be questioned for not protesting vigorously to the match officials.

    And finally, If I wanted to be negative in my comments, there was planty to pick from as this was a very poor performance by Arsenal.
    I didn’t .
    If you and others want to attribute this loss to the refs, go ahead, I don’t care.
    I’ve been on board against refs many times on here but not today, sorry.

  • Al

    With regards to my comments about you having form; show me one quote where you have agreed, just agreeing, with Walter on this site. Just once….

    Walter and co spend a lot of time gathering and putting up tonnes and tonnes of evidence here but you just come on here to nitpick through the swathes of evidence and look for the tiniest error to discredit all the hard work the team does. I’m pretty sure when you fail to find anything to criticise you don’t surface, only to pop up when you think ‘aha! ive got you’ on this..

    I’m going to ask you to provide a link or footage countering the standard’s article or sky’s footage, the onus is on you to back your statement up. I’ve provided mine to back my views the goals were offside. If you can’t do that then I respectfully ask you, again, to shut up.

  • Al

    Tom
    So in your view the onus is on the player to vigorously protest that a decision is incorrect?? And you say you played at professional level?

    You choosing not to criticise the team is neither here nor there. It’d be your opinion at the end of the day. I blame the ref and only the refs. Doesn’t matter how we might have given possession away or not, Leicester won there last week with only 22% possession, did they not get their three points because they didn’t play attractive football?

  • Al

    Tom
    Anyway I’m going to wait for you to provide a link to footage supporting your view. We can’t argue about what was shown on your TV in the states where I’m not (even though I’d like to think the footage these TV channels get will be the same as the broadcaster with the rights; curious how NBC would have had different footage, but that’s an argument for people who understand copyright laws better than me). I am confident you’ll not provide such evidence. Why? Coz it doesn’t exist.

  • Tom

    Al
    I can see you are taking it very badly so I will allow you let off some steam at my expense. Hate to see anyone suffer this much so have at it. I hope it helps.

  • Al

    Tom
    Don’t you worry about how I’m feeling, can you just present your evidence that both goals weren’t offside please.

  • Al

    ..and should it be surprising if I’m taking being cheated badly? That’s how every true supporter should feel, fyi.

  • bjtgooner

    I am not sure about the second Oilers goal, would need to see it again, but the first was clearly offside – (I was very surprised that it was not called) – only the disingenuous, the partly sighted, the corrupt or the imbecilic would postulate otherwise.

    Having said that, I was not happy with our performance – plenty of runnung around to no purpose – effort from some players – but not an overall team performance.

  • Josif

    Tom, AI

    I will wait for Walter’s final word on goals as I trust his sight on this matter more than to my own as he is a referee.

    However, in my opinion:

    1) the Monreal incident – a good call from the referee as Nacho was ahead of the last defender with almost whole body (I put a link to a video somewhere here);

    2) the Sane incident – the player was ahead of the last defender with his boot; now, in a way, both of you are correct on this matter: if we had the video referee, he would have signaled offside but any linesman in the real time would struggle to see that sort of offside and there is an instruction to the referees that they give an advantage to an attacker;

    3) the Silva incident – the player was ahead of the last defender in the moment Sterling made a shot; Silva tried to challenge the ball from the offside position – an offside goal that shouldn’t have stood.

    Oh, there was one more Silva incident – in the first half, I think he made two bookable offences. He wasn’t booked for the first but did get a yellow for his second offence.

    When it comes to those guilty for a defeat… I could live with that 8:2 defeat at Old Trafford but I was devastated with the 2:1 defeat in 2012-13 because I had thought we would defeat United. Same goes for two different defeats against City. I could live with 6:3 defeat knowing we were done by the refs all day long but the narrow defeat from today’s game hurts me a lot because I didn’t see passion, guts, desire in our game. We are supposed to be a positive football team and our goalkeeper had more passes than any other outfield player by 70th minute.

    (Speaking of the goalkeeper, I would like to see Ospina between the sticks in the forthcoming weeks. Not that Čech did anything wrong, it’s just I have a feeling Ospina would inject that energy of his to our team.)

  • bjtgooner

    @Josif

    I don’t like disagreeing with you – but in this instance it appeared that Sane was very obviously offside – not just by a boot – although in reality a boot should be enough for a call to be made. I could look at it again (I have watched that incident three times), but just now I am too pissed off to re-watch it.

  • Al

    Josif
    Fair enough. I can live with at least one of their goals being chalked off.

    There may be something to debate about the Sane goal, but if there’s history it becomes difficult. When we look at the 6-3 defeat where a similar thing happened, with the same ref, and if we throw in that Nacho was correctly called off today for a similar incident that Sane wasn’t, a worrying pattern starts developing and we might come to the conclusion there is a problem.

    I trust Walter’s judgement too when it comes to these matters, and like you will eagerly wait for his thoughts/views. But sure we all find it a little worrying, should he conclude sane’s call to be tight, that we never get that sort of benefit of the doubt. In fact, it’s like there’s a rule saying should there be a mistake it has to go against us..

    With regards to how the team played, I hear we played well in the first half. The fact we conceded soon after the break (to a controversial goal) might have set the tone for the rest of that half. The worst times to concede a goal historically, are usually the opening minutes, the last minute before half time, or just at the restart. Can affect performance. I understand the anger/disappointment at the lackluster performance, but also it’s important to note had there been no illegal goal/s awarded to city today we’d most likely not be be having this conversation.

  • Usama Zaka

    Yesterday i wrote that the cards and the whistle need to develop conciousness of their own, if anything is to be fair…… only today to realise that I forgot to include the flags of linesmen.

    Last week I was reading Goonerholic (terrifc man and blog check it out.) He said one very eye opening line. “With so many wrong decisons being given and not given, I better hope that these referees are incompetent, because if they are not… then football is fucked.”

  • WalterBroeckx

    That is if you want to follow my link and look at the picture. Not only his foot was offside but also his body was offside.

  • Al

    Thanks Walter. As they say, picture is worth a thousand words..

  • Robido

    Hate to say that in real time without frames before and after contact with the ball and with players, lino, and everything moving and recourse to freeze frames then this would probably go down as “on field call”? Ie it might be “wrong” but not an obvious mistake. It might be a tight call for the video ref.

    Some might argue that the line shown does not appear parrellel to the cut of the grass.

  • Florian

    Robido,

    These are legitimate concerns, but, this is surely not the first time an offside line is being electronically drawn across the field. If the line were not parallel, someone would have noticed in a previous occasion and gotten it fixed.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Thanks Walter.
    As for wengers clear exasperation at ref decisions this year, and the likes of Josif, who like myself wonders why the board, and in particular, the influential Ivan Gazidis don’t try and ensure a level playing field, perhaps what Wenger said today…..enough is enough ….is a shot across the bows at his board? Who knows, he is clearly pretty pissed off.
    I can see a clear correlation in our refereeing from when the FA were courting Wenger for the England job…..and then afterwards.
    I also see a correlation in losing the likes of Mustafi and Cazorla and performances, if not results….but don’t have the stats to back it up.
    If Wenger and the club believe, as many on here do that things are tilted against the team, the execs really should be speaking out. I suspect they fear making things worse, but maybe now is the time?
    But, that aside, we have been exceptionally poor in the second half in the last two games, the team may need to look closer to home at that.

  • Al

    Bushido
    Think that image might look a little skewed due to blowing it up to make it a little clearer, but you can see the line is clearly parallel to the cut in the grass in these two links below (the other even has video);

    http://metro.co.uk/2016/12/18/does-this-picture-prove-leroy-sane-was-offside-for-manchester-city-equaliser-v-arsenal-6331151/

    http://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/two-goals-that-shouldve-been-called-offside-boosts-manchester-city-past-arsenal/

    With regards to the call being tight, yes it may have been tight. But we had Nacho called off for a similar offence, showing the ability to call these things correctly is there. Why do we never get that kind of luck?

  • Tom

    Upon reviewing British media stills of the Sane goal I agree with the consensus that it was more than just few inches off side.
    I don’t know why NBC line showed a different picture.

  • Josif

    Thanks Walter! That settles the debate I guess.

    @Mandy Dodd

    Arsenal without Mustafi: W1D1L3. Granted, those four no-victories were against Liverpool, Leicester, Everton and Man City, four teams that would be difficult to beat even with Mustafi in team.

    With Mustafi: W9D3L0 (with a note that he was out v Stoke at 0:0)

    Arsenal with Cazorla in the starting line up: W6D1L0

    Without Cazorla in the starting line-up: W4D3L3 (he came on at 1:4 v Liverpool and created a goal in our almost come-back to 3:4)

    And, yes, when Mr Wenger was considered for the England job, we had a lighter approach from the refs. Once that story was over, it was same old, same old.

    Mind you that we don’t create as many chances as we used to last season.

  • Al

    Bushido,
    I posted a post a short while ago with links to the offside from the same angle as Walter’s, the post went into moderation due to links… I think the image is slightly skewed due to stretching of the image when enlarging it, but in the links you can see the lines are perfectly parallel.

    To everyone,
    It may seem like I’m trying to hijack this thread but I get worked up when posters come here manufacturing evidence, or claiming to have evidence, to undermine the club and push their own agenda (just to be clear this is in no way aimed at Bushido, look at my earlier posts to see who). Not calling out such people gives credence to their falsehoods, so doing nothing about it isn’t an option. They need to be challenged.

    p/s I have just seen both city goals again on cnn while composing this post; there was nothing difficult about both calls actually. Shocker…

  • Al

    I was toying with the idea of moving to the US but nah, think I’ll stay put. Why go somewhere where they show different images of what’s going on live on TV? Thought that only happened in North Korea? Shocked to hear it goes on in the states too…

  • Al

    Meant to address Robido in my 9:36 post…not Bushido.

  • Al

    Tom,
    Glad to see you agreeing that Sane was offside. Shall we also agree from today going forwards we should take your views with a grain of salt, since your TV shows crooked images/footage? Think it follows naturally that inaccurate footage=inaccurate conclusions.

  • nicky

    Let no-one be misled. This was an abysmal performance by Arsenal for 85 of the 90 minutes played.
    Even a draw would have been unjust to Citeh, who dominated us in all departments except perhaps goalkeeping.
    And the perennial delay in bringing on fresh legs didn’t help.
    For the first time this season, I have misgivings about the team selection and tactics being employed at Arsenal FC.
    In the past, when losing, Arsene Wenger has tended to bring on strikers.
    Today he introduced Giroud at a time when our high crosses were virtually non-existent. And a ballplayer like Perez was left on the beach.
    Very depressing. 😉

  • Tom

    Al
    “to everyone”???
    Ha ha ha.
    Who died and made you the King ? – might be a valid question.

    “Manufacturing evidence to undermine the club”?

    You crack me up 🙂

    As far as I’m concerned you can treat my posts any way you like it – don’t care.
    As for moving to the States – don’t . There are already enough nutters around here to last ten lifetimes.

  • Top Guns

    Same old same old
    It’s not just this season, it is every season

    Anyway on a positive note we are 4th place for Christmas so not too bad

  • Mandy Dodd

    Josif, get the impression Wenger was leading the FA a merry dance , perhaps to get some decent treatment at least for a while, he would never want the England job.
    I do not want Wenger gone, his replacement will be a lesser manager, but we may only get better treatment from referees when he departs, reasons unknow.
    A couple weeks ago, I was pretty certain Wenger would stay, with his comments this eve, I am not so sure. He has openly criticised refs on English and French TV, That sounds a last resort, unless Ivan backs him, he is a highly intelligent, measured man who chooses his words carefully, he knows what he is saying, and what the potential consequences are, yet he said them anyway. Don’t want to go too far into wengers quotes this eve, Untold may do a better job on this than I can , but I believe they are highly significant rather than an emotive reaction.in that either he is challenging his board to help him, or perhaps challenging the FA/PGMOL/EPL , and if it’s the latter, I believe he would only risk that if he had something tangible on them.

  • Pat

    It doesn’t matter how we played – if one or even two goals were allowed to our opponents when they were offside, it unfairly tilts the field against us. And poor refereeing has now cost us two matches running. This is serious.

  • Al

    Tom,
    I am not going to stoop to your level of name-calling, etc., to deflect attention from the lies you told about NBC showing different footage. It just shows you have no clue how broadcasting works, or maybe you just learned from trump the mastery of deflecting attention from embarrassing situations. You lied, and now trying to laugh about it, trying to trivialise your lies….

    I told you at 8:02pm I was confident you could never produce any evidence NBC had shown that footage because it didn’t exist. I was that confident you were lying, for me to make such a bold statement. You now claim that British stills show the goal was offside…. British stills? Whatever is that supposed to mean? Are there US stills (or Asian or African stills, for that matter) showing otherwise? Does the internet have boundaries now; the British internet vs the US internet? Or you just couldn’t bring yourself to say the images posted on UA show this was offside? Instead you refer to them as British stills….

    Owning up to being wrong is a sign of strength and it earns you respect, but you chose to keep digging your hole deeper. Now there are supposed to be British stills, versus… the rest of the world stills? …smh.

    You’re a phony, Tom. You visit UA for one thing; to push your agenda of trying to discredit everything this site stands for, and Wenger. Well the irony is that you’re the one that’s been discredited. Caught lying. I’m going to remind everyone of the lies you told today whenever I find you posting here, regardless of what ever the subject matter on the day may be. OK, lying Tom, I’m going to attend to other stuff now, lost enough time already as it were engaging liars.

  • Al

    Pat
    Exactly. I find it difficult to understand acknowledging the goals being wrong and at the same time slate the team for not playing well. The two don’t go hand in hand. For that to be possible the players would have to be some kind of emotionless robots that can just carry on as they were previously, without being affected by what is going on around them.

    They’re human. They respond to injustice, whether positively or negatively.. It’s no coincidence the poor shape started in the second half when the rot kicked in.. Six points stolen from us in a space of five days..

  • Robido

    Al

    I am gutted that we lost and shouted that both of their goals were blatant offsides. I wish they were and I could say we were robbed. In the first, having gone through it frame by framone frame or two earlier and it’s onside. (I’ll call off offside though). Its one that without Hawkeye and spot on video you have to go with the lino’s call and hope he’s honest(?!) with him running to catch up and spot when the ball was played the margin of error could be quite large so it could have gone either way and both would be debated.

    We were so good before half time but with 20% pass fail in our half something was not working.

    Maybe I am grouchy that in two games we were 1-0 up and lost. We are still in the mix but could be so much closer to Chelsea. Coyg.

  • GoingGoingGooner

    With regards to Thierry Henry…He has moved on from his time at Arsenal. In his mind it is more important to be a pundit than to be an Arsenal man…He has moved on and so should we; He will never be the Arsenal manager.

  • Robido

    Of course I would agree that if that goal had been disallowed which it could have been, I would be likely to be drinking happier beer than I am now. The call by the lino will have affected our players, and may in part have lead to that lack of surety with the ball compared with the first half.

    Hopefully now that Arsene has raised it he will continue to do so and this will help get video assistance.

  • Zedsaunt

    ”the referees are protected very well like the lions in the zoo”

    Brilliant phrasing from Mr Wenger. Protected like lions, allowed to maul on behalf of their masters.

    The zoo. In one area the organisation runs the sport for paedophiles, in the next enclosure games are run for the benefits of referees.

    The species of animal that runs the zoo has not yet been classified. No known animal species has hitherto displayed the venality that constitutes the bloodstream of those responsible for running the zoo. Only the flaccid need apply.

  • Gooner forever

    Sad to see refs are sabotaging Arsenal’s title bid this shows that they are afraid of the mighty Arsenal winning the leauge. There also seems to be an issue players seem fatigued with the sheer amount of games being played

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Forwarding this fine message as received .

    A young lady sat in a bus. At the next stop a loud and grumpy old lady came and sat by her. She squeezed into the seat and bumped her with her numerous bags.

    The person sitting on the other side of the young lady got upset, asked her why she did not speak up and say something.

    The young lady responded with a smile: “It is not necessary to be rude or argue over something so insignificant, the journey together is so short. I get off at the next stop.”

    This response deserves to be written in golden letters:

    “It is not necessary to argue over something so insignificant, our journey together is so short”

    If each one of us realized that our time here is so short; that to darken it with quarrels, futile arguments, not forgiving others, discontentment and a fault finding attitude would be a waste of time and energy.

    Did someone break your heart?
    Be calm, the journey is so short.

    Did someone betray, bully, cheat or humiliate you?
    Be calm, forgive, the journey is so short.

    Whatever troubles anyone brings us, let us remember that our journey together is so short.

    No one knows the duration of this journey. No one knows when their stop will come. Our journey together is so short.

    Let us cherish friends and family. Let us be respectful, kind and forgiving to each other. Let us be filled with gratitude and gladness.

    If I have ever hurt you, I ask for your forgiveness. If you have ever hurt me, you already have my forgiveness.

    After all, our journey together is so short!

    Since the ongoing year 2016 is at the verge of its ending so I take the opportunity to pay my heartiest thanks to each and all for every thing.

    I pray to god for well being of all my best friends in the coming year 2017 and shower all happiness to all of them.
    God bless.

  • Tom

    Al
    You are absolutely right. I apologize.
    Calling you a nutter was wrong and an insult……….. to all nutters 🙂

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Another forwarded message –

    How To Live and Die – By the late Khushwant Singh .

    I’ve often thought about what it is that makes people happy—what one has to do in order to achieve happiness.

    1- First and foremost is good health. If you do not enjoy good health, you can never be happy. Any ailment, however trivial, will deduct something from your happiness.

    2- Second, a healthy bank balance. It need not run into millions , but it should be enough to provide for comforts, and there should be something to spare for recreation—eating out, going to the movies, travel and holidays in the hills or by the sea. Shortage of money can be demoralising. Living on credit or borrowing is demeaning and lowers one in one’s own eyes.

    3- Third, your own home. Rented places can never give you the comfort or security of a home that is yours for keeps. If it has garden space, all the better. Plant your own trees and flowers, see them grow and blossom, and cultivate a sense of kinship with them.

    4- Fourth, an understanding companion, be it your spouse or a girlfriend or a best friend. If you have too many misunderstandings, it robs you of your peace of mind. It is better to accept the differences than to be quarreling all the time.

    5- Fifth, stop envying those who have done better than you in life—risen higher, made more money, or earned more fame. Envy can be corroding; avoid comparing yourself with others.

    6- Sixth, do not allow people to descend on you for gossip. By the time you get rid of them, you will feel exhausted and poisoned by their gossip-mongering.

    7- Seventh, cultivate a hobby or two that will fulfill you—gardening, reading, writing, painting, playing or listening to music. Going to clubs or parties to get free drinks, or to meet celebrities, is a criminal waste of time. It’s important to concentrate on something that keeps you occupied meaningfully.

    8- Eighth, every morning and evening devote 20 minutes to meditation or introspection. In the mornings, 10 minutes should be spent in keeping the mind absolutely still, and five listing the things you have to do that day. In the evenings, five minutes should be set aside to keep the mind still and 10 to go over the tasks you had intended to do.

    9- Ninth, don’t lose your temper. Try not to be short-tempered, or vengeful. Even when a friend has been rude, just move on.

    10- Above all, when the time comes to go, one should go like a Person without any regret or grievance against anyone.

  • colario

    @ Brickfields Gunners
    19/12/2016 at 5:16 am

    Well said.

  • Leon

    I didn’t see the game but I have seen all the goals including the graphics and it seems quite clear that Mane was offside by at least his foot (maybe even his lower leg), and Silva looked to have made a play for the ball as Sterling scored which under the recent new rules made that also offside. I’ve not seen Iwobi’s effort which was ruled out, but it’s claimed here that it was at least equal to Mane’s.

  • Leon

    Not Iwobi, but Monreal apparently.

  • Leon

    ……and Sane, not Mane……I’ll get me coat.

  • pop

    A lot of angry people leaving messages. Can’t say I’m happy, getting sick of defeats or draws with the top teams. Even if we win our games at Christmas it should just be a matter of fact so the care factor is low. Want Arsenal to perform at the top level but tactically we seem unable for many years now. It’s disappointing that nothing is changing.

  • Mike T

    Without doubt the first goal was offside, the irony was in real time it looked from Sky’s coverage more obvious than the reality. Although not apparently applied consistently the FA directive on this is unless their a clear view the attacker has to be given the benefit unless there is clear daylight.
    The second is far from as clear as some suggest. Silva wasn’t in the direct line of sight other than the players (I think Montreal and Sterling) Cech had a clear view. For me the only question revolves around Silvas movement and just because he was in an offside position doesn’t mean him swinging toward the ball makes him active for the ball has to be close to him. That’s the debate . My understanding of close in this context is could he have played the ball.

  • Al

    Tom,
    I’ve been showing restraint all along, why are you continuing with your insults calling me a nutter? You need to stop with the insults henceforth.

    Why would anyone calling themselves an Arsenal fan (or anyone else for that matter) come here and claim to have seen footage showing Sane to be onside when the ball was played, something that has been universally shown to be false?

  • Leon

    Tom
    Silva looked to be making an attempt at playing the ball. Doesn’t this activate the new rule?

  • Al

    Mike T
    I said similar in my response to Robido yesterday that in real-time it actually looks more obvious than tight. Looking at the footage it definitely looks easier to give it than not to give it, so only the lino will know why he chose not to.

  • Al

    With regards to Silva he made a swing as if to hit the ball, certainly that’s interfering with play, as it has the effect of making a dummy? An attempt to play the ball was made, and that makes him active and interfering, IMO.

  • Yommex

    The surprising thing is that the same lino correctly called off Nacho’s run for Iwobi’s goal that was chalked off. Nacho too was marginally offiside. He chose to see one and let the other go. Tell me what bias is or what fairness is not if there is selective vision.

    Pathetically, the so called pundits (excluding Graeme Sounness) were justifying the wrong calls without making reference to the earlier call by the lino. Sounness to me looked genuinely sad at the development, probably having been a manager himself, he understood how it feels better than the others in the studio with him.

  • Mike T

    Al

    On the face of it an attempt to play the ball made him active but that’s not the wording of the law as the word close is included and elsewhere within the laws Close means within playing distance.

  • WalterBroeckx

    I have less problem with the second goal to be honest. The first goal killed us.
    In the first half City were running nowhere. They couldn’t make big chances.
    and at the start of the seconde half their attacking looked even more pathetich with two balls being played out from the halfway line. They looked clueless against our organisation.

    Came the first offside goal and they suddenly were on the upper hand and we suddenly lost our composure completely.
    The first wrongly given goal turned the match completely.

  • para

    After the performance and body language of our players some 15 mins in the game i stopped watching. I KNEW we would lose it. It’s always the same kind of body language on the players when we do except when the team is truly better than us.

    The whole thing is, if Arsenal wanted to win the game, those “offsides” would not even have happened. We would have been in different positions and closing down earlier so the situations would not have happened.

    Norman14 🙂

    Well i’ll be keeping an eye out at the game on Saturday 1st April 2017. Pep owes us one big time.
    Thats all i have to say.

  • Al

    Mike T
    I still think he was in Petr Cech’s line of vision, hence was close to the ball. Naturally a player wouldn’t attempt a kick on a ball that’s too far out, I don’t think there’s any point in doing so. Cech confirmed it anyway, that some players were blocking his vision that he didn’t see the shot. In the heat of the moment he couldn’t see who it was, but with the benefit of replays we can see it’s Silva.

    But agree at least one of their goals should not have stood, and that would be the first one. And the same official had correctly flagged Monreal off in similar circumstances. Arsenal should have come out with, at the very least, 1 point out of this.

    Para
    Why do you always seem to want to demand superhuman effort from the team? They did enough to take some points back home in both matches, and what happened was out of their hands.

  • Gord

    In the article, Tony was looking for the possession statistics.

    Arsenal possession
    _5 44
    10 34
    15 32
    20 33
    25 33
    30 31
    35 34
    40 36
    45 35
    45+2 36
    50 36
    55 37
    60 37
    65 33
    70 34
    75 34
    80 34
    85 36
    90 39
    90+5 39

  • MickHazel

    Al
    We should not be mislead by this ‘not in his line of vision’ nonsense. Our actions and reactions are also very much affected by what information reaches the brain via our peripheral vision. The idiot Dermot Gallagher can claim Silva’s movement toward the ball didn’t affect Cech all he likes because he was not ‘in Cech’s line of vision’ but the fact remains Peter Cech’s reactions will have been influenced by Silva’s movement in some way, of that there can be no doubt, and in that case is therefore interfering with play. Silva didn’t just move toward the ball he stuck his foot out in an attempt to divert it away from Cech for goodness sake. I can see absolutely zero grounds for ruling that goal legal.

  • MickHazel

    Mike T
    I don’t get this ‘close’ thing. How close is close and what is within playing distance.
    How many times do we see a player in an offside position make a move toward the ball even though it may be yards away from them and immediately get flagged.

  • Mike T

    Al

    My understanding is of line of vision is the direct line from, in this instance Cech and Sterling and Montreal . There is no doubt that Silva was in Cech perrifal vision but I think it would be hard to argue that at any time before the ball was passed Cech that Silva wandered into the direct line of sight. We could argue all day about the impact of Silva being in Cechs prriferal vision but the laws as they don’t define that as interfering with play.
    Cech did indeed say players were in front of him but I took that as being Montreal and Sterling .
    As for being close their is no strict definition in the context of offside but as I said elsewhere in the laws close means within playing distance now the question is despite Silvas movement could he have played the ball
    Mick
    The interpretation of offside and interfering with play in this context is uniquely when the situation involves the keeper.
    Hey for me it’s a rule that is asking for trouble but as I said in my first posting the debate around was it or wasn’t offside revolves purely around Silvas movement toward the ball not where he was in relation to Cechs view of the shot from Sterling

  • Alex

    When one looses in a big game like the one of yesterday i think it is normal to moan and groan about ref.Not for 13 years.

    Arsene does not understand the fitness level required and tactical know how of the 21st century premiership level.

    Good to manage the books but not football.

    Add to the squad Messi Suarez Ronaldo and Wenger will still loose and moan and moan.

    Second half is Arteta that but us not the mighty Guardiola…me think

  • MickHazel

    Mike T
    Thanks for trying to explain it to me. It’s all perfectly clear now!!!!
    Can’t we go back to the good old days when offside was offside and that was the end of it. It was a lot easier then for us poor supporters, and I guess the refs as well.

  • Mike T

    Mick

    Amen to that. Every time they muck around , sorry update, the laws or shall I say put a modern update all they do is add to the confusion, etc

  • Menace

    Both City goals were off side & the assistant should have flagged both. It is not his call whether it is interfering with play.

    The line that Walters link shows is earlier than the position when the ball is kicked. The goalkeepers line of vision must include peripheral vision (PGMOL selectively do not have either). There is absolute certainty that the officiating was corrupt as the off side flag did not go up for the second goal, as the player was clearly offside & in my view active.

    Wenger said enough is enough but that is not the end of corruption. No matter how many pundits & ex referees comment on the match, only one makes the decision. That one needs to be seen to be honest & have integrity. There isn’t a single official from PGMOL that commands that accolade.

  • markyb

    Alex, do us all a favour and take your Anti Wenger tosh to a forum that will rejoice in your output and agree with you.

    How long since Liverpool won the league? Tottenham?

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