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Steve Bould’s managerial career begins with a victory

“I didn’t see Arsene Wenger sent off”

“Neither did he”.

By the front row, Block 110, and the Untold Team

Hysteria and humour seemed to be the main response to yesterday’s game.  Humour with the comments and headlines above, and hysteria of such proportions from the Telegraph that one begins to fear for the well-being of their commentators.

We are of course used to the authorities making up new punishments to hurt Arsenal as matters proceed.  The sudden invention of the notion that two points could be deducted from Arsenal in 1990 because of a “mass brawl” (which it clearly wasn’t) in a match against Manchester Ferguson (which shamefully the directors of Arsenal did not appeal, the 12 match ban for Mr Wenger in October 2000 for indulging in “violent or threatening behaviour against Mr Taylor, the fourth official at a game at Sunderland,” in August that year, which was reduced to a reprimand on appeal after the panel of enquiry recognised that the referee had lied in his evidence.

In that case also there were aftershocks when Referee Taylor himself was subsequently charged with misconduct for insulting comments to Notts County’s Sean Farrell during the game against Wigan on October 14.  That was heard on 6 February 2001 one month after Mr Wenger’s appeal and was found to be “not proven” after a four hour secret hearing.

Now Keith Hackett, writing in the Telegraph, is out for retribution for Mr Wenger’s victory in 2000/2001 which have long festered in the refereeing community and PGMO.

“For the sake of every official at every level of the game the FA must throw the book at Arsene Wenger after his disgraceful behaviour on Sunday,” he screaches in the paper.  “They need to send out a strong, clear message – officials are sacrosanct and if you lay hands on them you will pay a heavy price.

“A one or two match touchline ban just won’t cut it on this occasion. A slap on the wrist would tell every Sunday morning player that it’s OK to abuse or physically assault officials.

“What I would like to see as an absolute minimum is a six-game ban – but a far more severe punishment than simply being banished from the touchline. Instead, I would like to see Wenger barred from any contact with his team once inside the stadium. Uefa regularly impose this sanction and I feel it has far more impact than a manager simply being unable to stand in the technical area.”

(We may perhaps pause here just to ask for the justification of the word “regularly” in the previous sentence.  But going on with the tirade…)

“The reason I say that is a touchline ban often makes very little difference. In that scenario the manager sits up in the stands – often with a better view of the action – and communicates with his bench via mobile phone or messenger. They can go into the dressing room at half time and make the key decisions. Under the Uefa regulations you sit alongside a delegate and can have no contact once the players are off the team coach. You are powerless from that moment on. Managers hate it, but it acts as an effective deterrent.

“If the FA do take appropriate action of that nature – and I would like to see an extended touchline ban if the FA do go for that option – then this incident could be good for the game as a whole. The Telegraph reported last week on how 800 referees planned to strike this weekend over the threat of verbal and physical abuse, and it was no surprise to me we had reached such a tipping point. That strike was eventually called off, but decisive action is required and this could be a good start.”

The commentary will undoubtedly be seized upon by PGMO, and Jose Mourinho who endlessly endlessly suggests that Mr Wenger is treated too leniently by the FA.   However it makes no sense at all to suggest that inaction by the authorities over the long deteriorating situation in amateur football, which is entirely the fault of the FA and its abject refusal to deal with the treatment of referees at that level, is linked in any way with a situation involving a man who has been involved in football at the highest level for 20 years.

You simply cannot excuse the utter failure of the FA to deal with one matter, by then persecuting someone else.

All the wild ravings of the Telegraph seem to suggest, and in a totally wacky vision, is that by punishing Mr Wenger in a way that no manager has ever been punished before at Premier League level, one can make up for 20 years of zero response to a declining situation at the amateur level.  That somehow spectators at amateur games, plus unpaid amateur managers will look at a long ban for Mr Wenger and then think, “oh, woops, that might be me.  Better stop the abuse and harassment.”  How likely is that?  About minus 50 on a scale of one to ten.

Of course the FA and PGMO will seize on this because they will see it as a way of excusing their ineptitude over all this period, and of course as a way of knocking Arsenal, as they have done so often before.

It is of course also possible that there will be an attempt to take points away from Arsenal.  After all it has been done before in 1990, and with the mass support of the media at the time, they got away with it.

Equally to be expected there was widespread pointing out of the fact that Koscielny was offside when he headed the Burnley player’s boot.  Since he made no contact with the ball it was a correct decision, as has been pointed out on Untold, that there could be no flag.   But there will be, and probably has been, a lot of screaming that Arsenal were lucky to get the penalty.

Again the issue of context arises.  Just how many “goals” do Arsenal have to have against them which are offside before the historical issues replace the hysterical issues?

The problem here was revealed the previous evening on TalkSprout, whose commentary on the Manchester City / Tottenham game.  The commentator was screaming for a penalty and unable to believe that the referee had missed it, in that game.

But, of course, he was trapped.  For the long running abject refusal of the Sprout and its Sun paymasters to ask why referees make “mistakes” and their complete inability to look at any context beyond the last 10 seconds, means they cannot ever reach a true understanding of what is going on.  If they were historians they would probably record that Britain declared war on Germany on 3 September 1939 because it was time for Neville Chamberlain to declare war on Germany to show them that Britain could declare war on Germany.

Context is out, hysteria is all.

Here’s how the Telegraph and PGMO would like the table to look

*10 points deducted because it is Arsenal.

Arsenal v Burnley

And elsewhere

From the History Society

The picture above is of The Untold Arsenal Banner is on permanent display inside the Emirates Stadium

 

67 comments to Steve Bould’s managerial career begins with a victory

  • Nik

    I stopped reading when i got to this load of nonesense..There is blind biassed but this well.”Equally to be expected there was widespread pointing out of the fact that Koscielny was offside when he headed the Burnley player’s boot. Since he made no contact with the ball it was a correct decision, as has been pointed out on Untold, that there could be no flag. But there will be, and probably has been, a lot of screaming that Arsenal were lucky to get the penalty”.

  • WalterBroeckx

    There are two unwritten rules :
    1. a player or manager cannot touch a referee
    2. a referee cannot touch a player

    It works both ways.
    The only way a referee can make contact with a player is when he wants to seperate them if they are squaring up to each other. And even then they tell us to keep out from it to avoid any possible further violence. If they really want to fight, just let them and then send them off.

    Now I didn’t see any video from the incident but it will be of the highest importance to know who made contact first with his hands. If it was Taylor and Wenger then pushed his hands away I see no real reason for Wenger being punished. Unless he bundled him over.

    I wonder if Keith Hackett has also been asking 6 weeks bans for all the players that have touched referees over the last seasons? I missed it. Untold not by the way. As we have reported on such incidents (Rooney for example, Van Persie for example when playing for United). But then he remained silent I think. Why?

  • para

    They could not manage to stop us Sunday, this is the backlash.
    We can be sure that their attempts will be increasing now and we will have to be on the look out even more verbal attacks as well as in game decisions by the ref.

    Arsenal needs to bite their pride when on the field, do not give them any too easy (Xhaka wake up, Coq be carefull) chance to disrupt the team.

    We’ve got big things to do in this season.

  • MickHazel

    Wakter, I think it was Raheem Sterling who pushed Howard Webb a few years back and got away without any punishment. Webb just gave Sterling a talking too and the media all agreed he dealt withe situation sensibly. In fact the media treated it very much as a David v Goliath joke thing.
    Imagine the media reaction had it been say Jack Wilshere who had done the same.

  • Mike T

    Congratulations Tony on another clever piece that quite simply distorts the truth
    To suggest that there wasn’t a mass brawl is just deny the facts. The reason no appeal followed tells it own story
    I can’t help but feel that there is mischief behind you not mentioning the fact that the Mr Taylor involved in 2000 and the Mr Taylor involved yesterday were two different people.
    As for the commission in 2000 lied that was not the case what the appeal ruled was the contact was minimal
    Having been around for 20 odd years it’s pretty obvious Wenger would have been the subject of the odd FA charge and lets face it he has been seen to push other managers but yesterday he clearly went too far and there is no doubt a charge will and indeed should be made

  • Leon

    Walter
    Taylor made the first “touch” in attempting to guide Wenger towards the Tunnel corridor, and Wenger justifiably reacted, more in annoyance than anger. He appeared to say “don’t touch me” as he brushed Taylor away. I doubt if the FA will make much of this, but will probably give some sort of penalty based on what he said to get himself sent off in the first place.
    I’ve always had a lot of time for Hackett, but he’s now gone right down,down, down to the bottom.

  • Leon

    nik
    You never seem to get much joy here, so I can’t see why you bother. I personally don’t agree with all I read from articles & comments, and have fallen out with a number of people over this, but you seem determined to find fault and disagree with just about everything.
    You’re doing yourself no credit by just criticisms and are attracting the kind of unpleasant trolling that occurred around 10.30pm last night.

  • Alex

    It was not a push per se.It was Taylor that raised his hand pointing to move up and Wenger reacted by raising his hands.

    Hence the contact/brawl/fight………who cares 3 point in the bag

  • Norman14

    The fact that there was so much 2 facedness from the officials make this quite disgusting.

    Mustafi, elbowed in the face (twice) – yellow card for telling the linesman off for not looking properly. Compare this to the actions of the Burnley player who gets right into the face of Moss when he gave us our penalty – no card given.

    Dyche, who must have said “f^*K at least 30 times to Taylor during the match, but Wenger gets banished for saying “something” twice.

    I also said at the time that Wenger appeared to tell Taylor “don’t touch me” suggesting that the 4th official made first contact.

    There is graphic and video evidence of all these incidents, and if Wenger is charged, he should be busy gathering them up to use in his defence.

    Unfortunately, the government enquiry into corruption in football in this country appears to have stalled. Perhaps it’s too late!

  • Gooneress No1

    Excellent article. Last night TalkShit were making much ado about Arsenal’s penalty – Koscielny was offside they screamed, the fact that he didn’t touch the ball… none of them had the testicular fortitude to mention. Ahhh journalist… they’re becoming more and more irrelevant as each minute passes.

  • bjtgooner

    Perhaps Mike T can confirm that before he wrote the comment above, where he accused Tony distorting the truth, he wrote to the papers and media on the basis that they continually distort the truth – in fact the truth rarely has much to do with their articles. If MT can confirm he has done so, perhaps he could provide references.

    I can understand Wenger being frustrated, not just with Moss – but with the whole plethora of refereeing “errors” most of which seem to be designed to compromise our best efforts.

    Tony – I will make this request one last time – send the excellent reviews from Walter/Usama to each and every MP – bypass the media who contribute to unfair play by protecting the PGMO – deny the MPs and the Minister of Sport the comfort of plausible deniability. The farce that is the PGMO is long past its sell by date.

  • Mike T

    Gooneress 1.

    The reason they didn’t mention it was in that situation the fact that he didn’t touch the ball is irrelevant. It’s nothing like the circumstances when Sterling scored and Silva was in an offside position but deemed not to be interfering with play.
    You were beneficiaries of an incorrect decision but it happens

  • Rich

    Hell of a low act from Hackett to try create a strong link between Wenger’s actions and the ills, including violence, faced by refs at grassroots.

    This is the guy who was general manager of pgmol when Riley was selected for game 50,though. For that and other reasons, I never thought him remotely trustworthy.

    Our best hope of Wenger not getting serious punishment is probably if there were any other camera crews around. It was footage from ESPN Brazil that the club used to get Gabriel’s ban overturned last year. It showed his foot didn’t make any contact with Costa and wasn’t shown on British tv.

    Unfortunately our own camera crew wouldn’t be there and if we have any fixed cameras they’re unlikely to have a view of who touched who first, especially as the tunnel was jam packed.

    Taylor was miked up as well, so that would probably have picked up if Wenger said ‘don’t touch me’, but I expect they’ll only use that if it captured something incriminating.

    Whatever, it’s still so dishonest not to make a distinction between moving forward to push someone and pushing, without any real force, someone away who is getting in your space.

    Hell of a shame he got himself into this bother, the provocation was extreme, with the action of the day only a small part of it, but still, the golden rule has to be give them nothing, no opportunity to screw you.

    A heavy punishment would be bad news, and equally so it’s unpleasant to think of the way Jose and friends will milk this.

    Can see on Hackett’s wiki by the way he was actually the ref for that brawl at Old Trafford, and the eventual punishments were decided after a three hour consultation with him and his officials.

    The coup de grace is Hackett’s turning to Uefa for precedents. The same Uefa whose precedents for serious fouls have been explicitly and sometimes directly ignored.

    He wants much more serious punishment for Wenger than he would ever ask for in the case of a hideous foul which mangles a player’s leg and jeopardises their future. He’s an absolute c***, in other words.

  • Gooneress No1

    Well said Rich.

  • Mike T

    bjt
    I have no doubt that the press distort matters. But for Tony to suggest that there wasn’t a mass brawl during which 21 of the 22 players who were on the field were involved and the fact that 3 or 4 Arsenal players and George Graham were fined by the club,not the FA , suggests to me unless you are in complete denial it happened
    As it happens and if I remember didn’t Hackett award a controversial goal to Arsenal in what turned out to be 1 nil win?

  • Rich

    Mike T

    Not sure football really does brawls, apart from in South America occasionally.

    Barca Bilbao, when Diego got his revenge on the Butcher, now that was a brawl!

    I think a brawl needs at least one real punch in it, and I’m not sure there were any at old Trafford that time, just a lot of shoving from the only pictures I recall.

    If it mostly is shoving, there’s not exactly anything more heinous about 10 blokes shoving each other than twenty. In other words there’s no real reason for that to have been the only incident of its kind to result in a points deduction.

    In fairness, this is a different era. The scrutiny on and money in the game are incomparable.

    We’ve seen with Chelsea and player indiscipline, (or maybe it was Spurs; same approach now) that after saying ‘fines aren’t enough; next time it’ll have to be something else’, they won’t follow through with something else after the next incident. Too big a deal these days and presumably a lot more lawyer firepower.

  • Mandy Dodd

    I am sure the club will have ample evidence from cameras, and stewards as to what actually happened, and prepare their case accordingly.
    Or, at least I hope so, as mentioned in the lead article, our past directors maybe did not do enough to back Wenger, I hope the current bunch change that should Wenger face anything unreasonable, but not holding my breath on that one

  • Leon

    Mike T
    Well remembered about the LImpar goal in 1990, where goal line tech would have confirmed it.
    I’m not surprised that Arsenal didn’t contest the two points deduction (for their part in the “mass brawl” which gets exaggerated with each telling) as in the event they would have gambled on getting one or two more in a losing appeal.

  • Mark

    At this rate let Bouldy have the reigns because I do not trust aw one bit.

    Wenger likes his stat­s and one thing I’ve ­found over a decade o­f talking to his disc­iples is they too lov­e a stat. “Our most s­uccessful manager”, “­20 years of qualifyin­g for the Champions L­eague”, “Ozil has the­ most assists”, etc. ­I’ve never been a lov­er of stats. Criticis­ing Ozil a few season­s ago about him being­ lazy I was countered­ with “he actually co­vers more ground than­ any other player” st­at. I don’t know whet­her this stat was/is ­true but I’ve seen en­ough of him to know h­is heart really isn’t­ in it irrespective o­f his distance runnin­g capabilities. Wenge­r, we are told, relie­s heavily on assessin­g his players via the­ wealth of stats avai­lable to such an exte­nt the club purchased­ StatDNA (a US-based ­football data analyti­cs company) back in 2­012. As Wenger contem­plates his future may­be he should analyse ­his managerial stats.

    * 33 years in managem­ent – 4 League titles
    * In 20 years at Ars­enal – won 57.28% of ­our games. Won 9 trop­hies at an average of­ 127.44 games per tro­phy.
    Now stats don’t mean ­anything until you co­mpare like with like. ­
    * Ferguson – won 59.­67% of games. Games p­er trophy 45.45. ­
    * Mourinho (with Che­lsea) – won 66% of ga­mes. Games per trophy­ 46. ­
    * George Graham – wo­n 49.02% of games. Ga­mes per trophy 76.83.
    We can go on Paisley,­ Dalglish, Shankly, K­endall from years pas­t all have much bette­r stats than Wenger. ­Of recent league winn­ers Pellegrini and Ma­ncini easily outperfo­rm Wenger. Ranieri is­ currently at 72 game­s with Leicester for ­his 1 trophy, you can­ bet he’s pensioned o­ff before the club le­t him get to 127.

    The point is Wenger i­s statistically not a­ top manager. He’s a ­good manager but ther­e is a whole level of­ managers above him. ­Wenger’s record is se­cond rate compared to­ his contemporaries. ­The younger breed tha­t we’ve missed out on­ such as Pep, Klopp a­nd Conte have all out­performed Wenger. Tho­se still linked – Sim­eone and Allegri – ha­ve similarly left him­ behind. So be carefu­l what you wish for m­y arse!

  • bjtgooner

    MT

    As usual you circumnavigate the point but to you, so I will repeat the question.

    Have you written to the press/media complaining about their distortion of the truth – or have you just decided to make an accusation against Tony – if so, why are you so selective?

  • Samuel Akinsola Adebosin

    I didn’t know that Koscielny wasn’t offside as was severally shown on the TV screen during the live telecast of the match as I thought the linesman missed the offside, until Untold Arsenal has now educated me on another aspect of the offside rules which I haven’t known before.

    So Koscielny was in the offside position when the ball came to his path but he didn’t make contact with the ball. Hence, he wasn’t offside but was onside when his face was being hit by a Burnley player claiming to be defending but instead gave away a penalty to Arsenal which Sanchez graciously converted to collect all the three points at stake in the game for us. Wow!

    But what beat me first is, has Sean Dyche the Burnley manager with all his knowledge of the rules of game came out to make a pronouncement in his press conference after the match saying, Arsenal’s match winning penalty goal should not have been given by the match referee because Koscielny was offside when the ball was played in. Has he intentionally said this to back the media outcry that Arsenal’s winning goal in the match was offside? Whereas it wasn’t but onside. Secondly, I think some journalists who are supposed to educate football fans of the offside rules correctly don’t known the rules correctly themselves. And as a result of this, they’ve been causing controversies in the game. I think they should go back to school to learn properly. Finally we must give credit to the match referee’s assistant for not wrongly flagged Koscielny offside. My Kudos to him.

  • Dammy

    This is nothing short of abuse of privilege. An ex ref with a column in one of the leading dailies using his position to attempt to sway the FA. If he feels that strongly, he should write a letter to the FA. If that was how criminality and sentencing worked in this country- the streets will be empty and the prisons overflowing into other countries!
    Wenger has many flaws, but his history with match officials in 20 years is exemplary! Did he step out of line? Yes- were his actions extreme? no. He refused a directive to leave and shoved the fourth official around as the match had begun and he (the official) actually had a job to do. It’s inexcusable but to call for the hanging of a pickpocket is draconian!

  • bjtgooner

    The Wenger/Oliver confrontation appeared a very minor one, but siezed upon by the scandal seeking media and the anti Wenger brigade – it was really nothing more than a small storm in a tea cup.

    Lets not forget that Oliver was not entirely innocent – being part of the PGMO presence that showed everyone how not to referee a match.

  • Samuel Akinsola Adebosin

    I didn’t know that Koscielny wasn’t offside as was severally shown on the TV screen during the live telecast of the match as I thought the linesman missed the offside, until Untold Arsenal has now educated me on another aspect of the offside rules which I haven’t known before.

    So Koscielny was in the offside position when the ball came to his path but he didn’t make contact with the ball. Hence, he wasn’t offside but was onside when his face was being hit by a Burnley player claiming to be defending but instead gave away a penalty to Arsenal which Sanchez graciously converted to collect all the three points at stake in the game for us. Wow!

    But what beat me first is, why has Sean Dyche the Burnley manager with all his knowledge of the rules of game came out to make a pronouncement in his press conference after the match saying, Arsenal’s match winning penalty goal should not have been given by the match referee because Koscielny was offside when the ball was played in. Has he intentionally said this to back the media outcry that Arsenal’s winning goal in the match was offside? Whereas it wasn’t but onside. Secondly, I think some journalists who are supposed to educate football fans of the offside rules correctly don’t known the rules correctly themselves. And as a result of this, they’ve been causing controversies in the game. I think they should go back to school to learn properly. Finally we must give credit to the match referee’s assistant for not wrongly flagged Koscielny offside. My Kudos to him.

  • Samuel Akinsola Adebosin

    I didn’t know that Koscielny wasn’t offside as was severally shown on the TV screen during the live telecast of the match as I thought the linesman missed the offside, until Untold Arsenal has now educated me on another aspect of the offside rules which I haven’t known before.

    So Koscielny was in the offside position when the ball came to his path but he didn’t make contact with the ball. Hence, he wasn’t offside but was onside when his face was being hit by a Burnley player claiming to be defending but instead gave away a penalty to Arsenal which Sanchez graciously converted to collect all the three points at stake in the game for us. Wow!

    But what beat me first is, why has Sean Dyche the Burnley manager with all his knowledge of the rules of game came out to make a pronouncement in his press conference after the match saying, Arsenal’s match winning penalty goal should not have been given by the match referee because Koscielny was offside when the ball was played in? Has he intentionally said this to back the media outcry that Arsenal’s winning goal in the match was offside? Whereas it wasn’t but onside. Secondly, I think some journalists who are supposed to educate football fans of the offside rules correctly don’t known the rules correctly themselves. And as a result of this, they’ve been causing controversies in the game. I think they should go back to school to learn properly. Finally we must give credit to the match referee’s assistant for not wrongly flagged Koscielny offside. My Kudos to him.

  • Mike T

    bjt

    You don’t half ask some pathetic questions . But just to shut you up

    I have written to the Daily Mail on two separate occastions on certain matters , which had nothing to do with football.

    Leon

    Probably would have been given but if Hackett really did on that day have an agenda he would have not given the goal and there wouldn’t have been any eveidence to prove it wrong.

    Samuel . He was offside but it wasn’t given as I say that happens.

  • Mark – agree you have to compare like with like, which means including the amount of money available by Arsenal and other clubs, as well as the statistics you quote. And then how much weight you put on the rise and fall of the club – such as the position that we were left in when Graham left. And of course issues of legality. Quite a complex task really.

  • bjtgooner

    So MT – thank you for confirming that, in respect of football matters, you have been selective when accusing Tony of distorting the truth – and ignoring the ongoing blatant distortion, misrepresentation and hiding of truth in the media.

    The question then is – why?

  • Mike T

    BJT
    The facts as they are speak for the self.

    Enjoy your day

  • Gooner S

    @Mark
    I see where you are coming from but you cannot ignore the fact that Arsenal were hit for 10 years paying for a stadium when those that you compare him to weren’t hampered by such an activity.

    Wenger is Arsenal’s most successful manager. It’s churlish to argue otherwise.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Hackett really going for this one- years of bitterness spilling out now he has his chance.
    He was a weak official, and a supine administrator, his words should carry little weight.
    Sadly, I fear this type of thing will stay with the club as long as wenger does, could not see Eddie Howe for instance getting the treatment Wenger gets

  • Gooneress No1

    Mike T – I’m on Planet Earth – where are you?

  • Mike T

    Goonereress No 1

    I,m here !

    Every punit, ex referee etc that has commented on this to date has pointed out the offside. Moss was correct in his descion but the assistant was not with his

    It will be extremely interesting to see what your guys when they do the review say

  • Tom

    “What I would like to see as an absolute minimum is a six-game ban – but a far more severe punishment than simply being banished from the touchline. Instead, I would like to see Wenger barred from any contact with his team once inside the stadium. Uefa regularly impose this sanction and I feel it has far more impact than a manager simply being unable to stand in the technical area.”

    That’s right , throw the book at him because when I think of football being brought into disrepute, I immediately think Wenger.
    Perhaps a six week house arrest with an ankle bracelet and no access to tv or internet might be more appropriate

    Walter
    Taylor showed Wenger down the tunnel with his arm and Arsene pushed his arm away and than pushed Taylor away.
    Depending on what was said in the process I expect a one or two match ban.

    Tony
    Talking about hysteria?
    Nobody does hysteria quite like Untold and its comment section:)
    Debating fouls and decisions can get tricky but time added on shouldn’t.

    3 minutes for Burnley player injury, 1 minute 50s for Xhaka red card, 1 minute 30s for two elbows on Mustafi and five substitutions at 30 seconds each works out to about 9 minutes of extra time .
    So 7 minutes added on shouldn’t even raise an eyebrow let alone create the mass hysteria it did in the comments yesterday 🙂

  • Rosicky@Arsenal

    Surprisingly some people here are making fun of Arsenal being lucky getting a few decisions in there favour but fail to admit United and Spurs getting a chunk of biased refs decision for almost a decade.
    Leicester was the chief beneficiary last year.
    Even yesterday Arsenal were unlucky that Xhaka was shown a straight red for a lunge which could have been a yellow on a fair scale.People here are quick to point out Kos last minute penalty but keep quiet on Mustafi penalty and harsh challenges on Mustafi n Ozil which were clearly red.

    As Usama pointed out on last thread that Arsenal would have won 3 – 1 had ref been fair to charge Burnley players for harsh tackling and the issue of Kos penalty would have been irrelevant.

  • Zedsaunt

    Bottom of the barrel stuff from Hackett. The faces of the stewards in the tunnel are so blank either they are in a deep state of shock and require immediate counselling, or nothing much was happening. Taylor didn’t move.

    Compare to the aggro on the field, players around the referee, the English national team captain jabbing his finger in the face of the ref.

    As for Kos, yes offside, but these things even out, so they tell me.

    What took my breath away – the blatant use of the elbow. How is this allowed?

    All in all, another gaudy, blatant, advertisement for a so-called sport that has absolutely everything to do with a circus marooned in a field and not much else, except a few examples of sublime skill.

    One final point – if the FA do go for Mr Wenger on this, then Arsenal the football club should seriously defend him.

  • Tom

    “people here are quick to point out Kos last minute penalty but keep quiet on Mustafi penalty and harsh challenges on Mustafi n Ozil which were clearly red.”

    Clearly!
    Unless you are a Burnley fan, in which case the Mustafi pen is more of a 50/50 boot to boot, loose ball challenge rather than a stone cold pen for Arsenal.
    And both games ended with a controversial call against the ” small” team,
    with Kos pushing the ball over the line with his hand in first and getting a pen while being in the offside position in second game.

    Clearly! 🙂

    Just for fun I visited a Tottenham blog the other day just to see what was their fans’ take on some of the referee decisions and low and behold the prevailing sentiment was the refs, the league and the pundits were all against them.

    When I laughingly pointed out to them that they are on a 62 game red card free run, they were stunned at first and then said it didn’t matter.
    They know what they know.

  • Rosicky@Arsenal

    Tom

    Fair enough but what about the harsh tackles on Mustafi and Ozil?

    For me they were clear red cards.

    You may have your own opinion no problems.

    Re Kos hand ball at turf moor it was a clean goal even acknowledged by various bpundits.So you lose there atleast.

    Re spuds thinking they are the most hit by refs but the stats speak for themselves.

    Arsenal getting 4 penalties against them with 3 ted cards in the last 5 home games
    And spurs getting 4 penalties in there home games (Dele Ali admitting a dive) and no reds since 62 games.
    What a co incidence!!!

    Leister getting 10+ penaltiez in one season and Arsenal had to wait for 3 seasons combined to chalk up 10.+

  • Tom

    The same ex ref who didn’t have a problem with Kos scoring with his hand at Burnley is now asking for at least six game ban for Arsene Wnger.

    I suppose you agree with him on this one as well.

  • WalterBroeckx

    The foul on Mustafi was one of those fouls where if it would have been in the Arsenal penalty area and an Arsenal player making contact from behind on an attacker it would have been given as a penalty. I know it. You know it. Hell I think even Tom knows it 😉
    An arm in the back (A Bournemouth penalty), a knee against the leg of Mustafi (was it also against Bournemouth at home? – lost count) and then finally some contact with the foot from behind. We’ve seen them given. But only against Arsenal it seems…

  • Usama Zaka

    Spot on Walter, far softer ones (but correct ones) went against us (at home) like Wilson-Monreal against Bournemouth and Dembele-Koscienly against Spuds. Its almost as if someone handed out two rulebooks (one for Arsenal and one standard).

  • Tom

    “an Arsenal player making contact from behind on an attacker it would have been given as a penalty. I know it. You know it. Hell I think even Tom knows it 😉”
    Walter

    Maybe.
    Although when Bellerin did to Leicester’s Musa what you just described , Clattenburg’s decision was to play on.
    Wasn’t there another challange by Kos on Drinkwater in the same game that could’ve resulted in a pen if what you say were true?

    Now since I don’t read ref reviews anymore, would you mind telling me what your verdict was in both cases.
    I’d venture a bet of no pen 🙂

  • Usama Zaka

    Tom,

    Here is small link package for you,

    https://justpaste.it/12px7

  • Usama Zaka

    Tom,

    Edited the link-note to include more clips.

  • Rosicky@Arsenal

    Usama

    Even a blind mam can see kos cleared the nall before contact with Drinkwater.But i am sure Tom wont agree.

    Kindly give your opinion on Burnley player challenge on Ozil.He was only shown a yellow. I think it was more harsh than Xhaka challenge.pls comment.

  • goonersince72

    Mark @ 11:34 am

    “I’ve seen enough of him to know his heart really isn’t in it”. Your qualifications to make this assessment? Former manager of Real? Germany? Arsenal? And Psychology and Psychiatry honours from which Universities?

  • Tom

    Xhaka red was harsh I thought.
    Mustafi pen shout was a pen I thought, although not open and shut case as many on here stated.
    Koscielny on Drinkwater I only remember vaguely so no opinion on that one , but Bellerin on Musa probably a pen.

    Any of my opinions are just that I wouldn’t presume to call anyone who disagrees whith me on them being wrong.

    But to say something was “clearly” one way or another in a game of football, other than some offside calls” is perhaps an overreach.

  • Ryan

    @Mark – What f**king stats – some made up gibberish? What is meant by – “Ranieri is currently at 72 games with Leicester for his 1 trophy” Ranieri has been manager of Chelsea also, so why are those stats ignored. And you are comparing Moaninho in his Abramavich doped period to Wenger. In the last 3 years, he has 1 league, 1 carling cup, 1 community shield. And he left Chelsea in 18th place. And still he is GOD. Hallelujah.

  • Usama Zaka

    Rosicky@Arsenal,

    My personal view when viewing live was it was a straight red card

    1. Marney made a lunge-jump mixed from behind, and completely missing the ball, and fouling Ozil well above knee. (falls in to serious foul play)
    2. Ozil was partly through on a possible goal creating opportunity, the fact that Marney chased back was because Burnley’s defense was way high up the pitch and had been beaten by Ozil’s run.
    3. If you compare it with Xhaka.vs.Swansea (plus new ruling by refs only to be applied against us) this falls straight into that category.
    4. Showing a yellow for similar incident is sign double standards by the same ref.

  • Stevo

    With many people on this site, the main issue apart from what should be the “sentence” for AW is the Koscielny offside for the penalty incident. Can anybody clarify what the penalty was given for, if. It was for kicking Kozza in the head , then why wasn’t there a red card for the offender as it seemed to me to be wreckless behaviour, or is it ok to kick anybody in the head and only get a free kick against for this offence. Did the offender receive a yellow in this case? If he did then the referee has a poor judgement of what can be allowed for this type of offence.

  • Rosicky@Arsenal

    Tks Usama.
    I had a similar reaction when Marney hit Ozil from behind.It was more violent than Xhakas.

    Unfortunately the AAA will never open thier eyes.

  • GoingGoingGooner

    Most football supporters feel that their club is hard done by the referees. We are no different but we do try to get to the bottom of the matter by hypothesizing on why this is and doing some research. Perhaps Wenger deserves to be banned. Koscielny was offside and perhaps Xhaka deserved a red. Our intellect wars with our emotion. We can be equitable but we feel this never seems to be extended to us. I think that most on this site are prepared to take our lumps in a fair and open system. Unfortunately, the Premier League as it is presently constituted patently is not. There seems to be less secrecy at Guantanamo Bay than the inner workings of the PGMO.

    It is sad that some supporters of other clubs feel the need to come and troll us when in fact in this struggle to improve our game, they are our natural allies. Most sportsmen simply want a chance to compete on an even playing field. I don’t think the financially smaller clubs really believe that over 38 matches they can really compete with the richer clubs, but I think they believe, as I do, that on any given Saturday any Premier league team can beat another. That’s all they and we want without any refereeing shenanigans getting in the way. The Burnley players are not as skilled as the Arsenal players but they are elite ATHLETES and they deserve our respect. Their supporters are us but dressed in odd colours.

  • Gooneress No1

    Well said GoingGoingGooner.

  • MickHazel

    Jim White, Harry Redknapp and Matt Scott today on Talk Sport falling over themselves to excuse Wayne Rooneys frequent unpunished disrespectful swearing tirades directed at referees. They all agreed you wouldn’t want him to change because he wouldn’t be the same player if he wasn’t like he is, it’s understandable because of his passion, because of his upbringing etc etc.
    Five minutes later castigating Wenger for his spat with Taylor and Moss which according to them showed total lack of respect for officials. Throw the book at him they agreed.
    One rule for Rooney, another for Wenger.
    Two faced wankers.

  • Stevo

    I see that Mee never had a card of any colour. How can that be?

  • Menace

    Mark
    23/01/2017 at 11:34 am
    What a load of bollocks. Who are your trophies going to feed when there is no infrastructure to train?

    Wenger won more in terms of honest financial success than any manager of any club. Manchester United made their money from the historical support of government & media (Murdoch press – the same cunts who accused Liverpool fans at Hillsboro) following the ‘air disaster’. Bobby Charlton, George Best & Eric Cantona.

    The PGMOL attack on Arsenal is totally corrupt & selectively blind like many of those who sing the praise of ‘success without creation’. Xhaka was kicked by Defours & then pushed but Moss saw fit to allow all the red card offence to go unpunished. The rest is just a continuation of corrupt officiating.

  • Menace

    Stevo
    23/01/2017 at 4:27 pm Spot on! The cunt Moss prooved beyond doubt that he was corrupt. Like the wankers on Talk Sprout -mouth of Kung Fu Murdoch & Fuck Hall.

  • Menace

    GoingGoingGooner
    23/01/2017 at 4:49 pm

    I’m np diplomat. Calling Joey Barton deserving of respect is pretending that shit does not stink. The Burnley players were deliberately kicking our elite players. Xhaka, Ozil, Alexis all had their legs kicked without any attempt to get the ball. Get real these bastards do not deserve to be called sporting. The manager Duche bag talks about off side following a prompt but ignores his coached gbh morons. Watch the game carefully & you will see how bad this FA / PGMOL /media agenda is.

  • Menace

    As regards Wenger, his actions were fully justified & the PGMOL dildo tried to behave like a boarder collie & shepherd Wenger into the tunnel. Wenger has the right to stand where ever he likes. The PGOL & FA can then do what they have to. These uneducated morons selected by Riley try to bring the game into disrepute by childish action against a senior.

    I hope Wenger & Arsenal take this whole game & its officiating to the Court for arbitration of Sport. It was biased & totally a shameful example of shameless corrupt behaviour.

  • Vince

    Funny that the FA was so quick to charge Wenger (rightly or not that is not the point) for a slight push, but failed to do anything about the 2 assaults from Pogba on Allen and Henderson…

  • omgarsenal

    For those claiming that Kos was offside, that is incorrect – he was in an offside position but NOT given offside, because he did not interfere with play (too busy having his face scraped off by a boot) and was not taking advantage of his position nor interfering with an opponent or gaining an advantage by being in that position. Those of you who claim to be experts on the Laws should review Law 11: He was parallel with the second to last defender when the ball was played AND the keeper was on his line, so between Kos and the goal. That is why the linesman (who was positioned correctly) never flagged for offside.

    Xhaka’s two-footed lunge would be punished by most officials I know with a red card, as I also would have done. it was serious foul play and totally irresponsible!

    Did Wenger abuse (verbally or physically) an official. If YES, then he deserves all he gets…you won’t hear me defending anyone who assaults an official. However, if it was a tempest in a teapot and Taylor actually started by touching Arsene, then that is a horse of a different colour. As Walter correctly states, officials are warned NEVER to touch players or managers,even fans etc. because then we have little in our defense IF things go wrong. We are told NOT to try and break up brawls, not to seperate bettling players, not to prevent fans from entering the field or managers, etc. These people are out of control and we are NOT policemen….just ordinary citizens whose role is to avoid dangerous situations for players and ourselves.

  • finsbury

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts OMG as always!

    You almost ruined the party for these same sick trolls than completely failed in that attempt to troll yet succeeded at the same time in humiliating themselves upon a public forum.

    Nevermind, till next time eh?

  • Pat

    Menace – I like that bit about the official being a border collie! Nice one! It’s good to have a laugh, even while being furious about our unfair treatment – as usual.

  • GoingGoingGooner

    @Menace…Agreed…Joey Barton definitely is the exception that proves (tests) the rule.

  • Menace

    As regards the referee & touching, he walked out for the second half with a Burnley players arm around his shoulders. Two good friends out for a Sunday stroll. Taylor was goading Wenger & caused the physical confrontation knowing that his mate Moss was being selective visioned.

    Xhaka did not go in 2 footed but actually went in right foot first with a bent left knee. A proper ‘robust’ challenge for the ball, unlike the swipe kick that he was given earlier (first half) by Defour (no attempt to play the ball) followed by a clear push that Moss & his assistants didn’t deem to be worthy of a card.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    OLD CHINESE Wisdom: A moral story

    A farmer in ancient China had a neighbour who was a hunter, and who owned ferocious and poorly trained hunting dogs.

    They jumped over the fence frequently and chased the farmer’s lambs.

    The farmer asked his neighbour to keep his dogs in check, but this fell on deaf ears.

    One day the dogs again jumped the fence, attacked and severely injured several of the lambs.

    The farmer had had enough, and went to town to consult a judge who listened carefully to the story and said: “I could punish the hunter and instruct him to keep his dogs chained or lock them up. But you would lose a friend and gain an enemy. Which would you rather have, friend or foe for a neighbour?”

    The farmer replied that he preferred a friend.

    “Alright, I will offer you a solution that keeps your lambs safe, and which will keep your a neighbour a friend.”

    Having heard the judge’s solution, the farmer agreed.

    Once at home, the farmer immediately put the judge’s suggestions to the test.

    He took three of his best lambs and presented them to his neighbour’s three small sons, who were beside themselves with joy and began to play with them.

    To protect his son’s newly acquired playthings, the hunter built a strong kennel for his dogs.

    Since then, the dogs never again bothered the farmer’s lambs.

    Out of gratitude for the farmer’s generosity toward his sons, the hunter often shared the game he had hunted with the farmer.

    The farmer reciprocated by sending the hunter the cheese he had made.

    Within a short time the neighbours became good friends.

    A saying in old China went something like this,

    “One can win over and influence people the best with gestures of kindness and compassion.”

    A similar Western saying: “One catches more flies with honey than with vinegar.”

    Let us make an effort to make a pact that we will be polite when we speak and not make rude and sarcastic remarks at every opportunity we get, especially with our families, friends and colleagues.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    But when confronted with unmitigated stupidity , unrepentant liars and obnoxious persons , do your best to educate them . Even if it means having to kick them up their arses .

    As was done by the regulars in the comments above . I’m sure that they have tried their best to educate the fools , but some still just don’t get it !

    But keep on educating them anyway .

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