Chelsea v Arsenal: the supporters and the team; the injuries and the discipline.

Posted on by Tony Attwood

By Bulldog Drummond

To start with an admin note: you may have seen that pages on Untold suddenly reduce in size to allow extra advertising.  This normally works with the text but screws up our tables.  I’m talking with our ad agency about this, but if you do find it affects your reading just click refresh (F5) and that normally clears the problem.

Right, on with the show…

It has been well said that an Arsenal supporter who goes to Chelsea and expects a warm and civilised welcome is rather like a man who goes to the top of the White Cliffs of Dover, drops a rose petal down over the edge and waits to hear the echo.

So we travel without such expectation, at least on that front.

Regarding the immediate past Mr Wenger said, “I believe we had a bad performance at Liverpool, I never deny that, it should be an even greater motivation for us to turn up with an even better performance on Sunday. We’ve analysed Liverpool well, we know what we missed there, it’s important we correct it.

“Basically, in the last few years, Chelsea has had great teams so it was always difficult to win there but our record against Chelsea has been good, we won here last year, we won the FA Cup final, on penalties in the Community Shield, so let’s focus on the quality of our game and not too much on where we play.”

Antonio Conte has been doing some blaming too: he blamed the air conditioning for his throat infection and has been on antibiotics since Thursday and as one journalist put it “he is in a race against time to recover his fitness.”  Nice one.

It is a topic that has exercised journalists of late, along with the fact that Arsenal have a record at Stamford Bridge a bit like a Viking army having a fight with King Harold (a reference you will only get if you know what happened before the Battle of Hastings, which of course should be called the Battle of Battle).

Anyway Arsenal has not won at Chelsea for six years.  You can read that in every paper so there is not much point picking up any of them.  On the other hand Arsenal have played Conte’s Chelsea four times and Arsenal have won three of those.  Unfortunately two of those now not only don’t count as trophies they also don’t count as matches it seems.

As for today’s game Conte said, “I hope to finish the game with 11 players,” which makes sense.  “In the last two games against Arsenal, I think you have to see very well if there was the red card or no,” which doesn’t.   Moses dived, and that surely was that.   Gary Cahill and Cesc Fàbregas have been sent off for them this season; there seems to be a pattern which now counters the earlier pattern of Gabriel and others being penalised for crimes not committed.

In fact that reminds me we haven’t done a discipline table for quite a while, so maybe we ought to bring that back to these previews.   There are lots of ways of running such a table – here’s one that gives one point for a yellow and three for a red…

Pos Team Yel Red Points
1 Manchester City 9 2 15
Newcastle United 12 1 15
3 Crystal Palace 14 0 14
Chelsea 8 2 14
5 West Ham United 9 1 12
Liverpool 9 1 12
7 Everton 8 1 11
8 West Bromwich Albion 7 1 10
9 Huddersfield Town 9 0 9
10 Watford 5 1 8
Tottenham Hotspur 8 0 8
AFC Bournemouth 8 0 8
Swansea City 8 0 8
14 Burnley 7 0 7
15 Leicester City 6 0 6
16 Southampton 5 0 5
17 Manchester United 4 0 4
Arsenal 4 0 4
Stoke City 4 0 4
20 Brighton & Hove Albion 3 0 3

Interesting to see Stoke down at the bottom but also interesting to see how the Tiny Totts have picked up an awful lot of yellows this season.

On the injury front Arsenal remain stuck in the bottom half of the physioroom league table which now means many commentators are now searching for other sources of injury data.  But sticking with the one we’ve used for several years here is the list

Pos Club Men down Last man out What happened
12 Crystal Palace 3 P Souare Fitness
13 Swansea City 3 K Bartley Knee Ligament
14 Newcastle United 3 M Haidara Knee Injury
15 Leicester City 3 J Vardy Groin Injury
16 Arsenal 2 F Coquelin Hamstring
17 West Bromwich 2 O Burke Tight Hamstring
18 Manchester City 1 V Kompany Calf Injury
19 Chelsea 1 D Drinkwater Calf Strain
20 Southampton 1 C Austin Knock

So nothing much there we didn’t know.  Top of the league are Brighton and Watford with six players out.

However the Metro seems to have injury intelligence all of its own saying, “On Friday, Arsene Wenger admitted that Ozil and Aaron Ramsey were both doubts for Sunday’s clash at Stamford Bridge but was optimistic that they would be available.”

In terms of home and away games the issue is interesting.  Here is the league table counting home matches only

Pos Team Pld W D L F A GD Pts
1 Liverpool 3 2 1 0 6 1 5 7
2 Manchester United 2 2 0 0 6 0 6 6
3 Arsenal 2 2 0 0 7 3 4 6
4 Newcastle United 3 2 0 1 5 3 2 6
5 Huddersfield Town 3 1 2 0 2 1 1 5
6 West Bromwich Albion 3 1 2 0 2 1 1 5
7 Manchester City 2 1 1 0 6 1 5 4
8 Stoke City 2 1 1 0 3 2 1 4
9 Southampton 3 1 1 1 3 4 -1 4
10 West Ham United 1 1 0 0 2 0 2 3
11 Chelsea 2 1 0 1 4 3 1 3
12 Leicester City 2 1 0 1 3 2 1 3
13 Brighton and Hove Albion 2 1 0 1 3 3 0 3
14 Burnley 2 1 0 1 1 1 0 3
15 AFC Bournemouth 3 1 0 2 3 5 -2 3
16 Everton 2 1 0 1 1 3 -2 3
17 Tottenham Hotspur 3 0 2 1 2 3 -1 2
18 Watford 3 0 2 1 3 9 -6 2
19 Swansea City 2 0 0 2 0 5 -5 0
20 Crystal Palace 3 0 0 3 0 6 -6 0

I’ve given the full table to show the Tiny Totts lurking in 17th.  There was much derisive laughter from some quarters when Untold suggested that Tottenham might have a difficulty or two playing at Wembley, and after their home win in the week in Europe there was much rebuffing of that suggestion because they won.   However it was back to old times yesterday, and three home games in the league have produced no wins thus far.   Chelsea as we can see are 11th in the home table.

Unfortunately at the moment, laughter at the fate of Tottenham at home has to be balanced against our fate away from home where we are tragically bottom of the league…

Pos Team P W D L F A GD Pts
10 Newcastle United 2 1 0 1 1 1 0 3
11 West Bromwich Albion 2 1 0 1 2 3 -1 3
12 Stoke City 3 0 1 2 2 4 -2 1
13 Everton 2 0 1 1 1 3 -2 1
14 Leicester City 3 0 1 2 4 7 -3 1
15 Brighton and Hove Albion 3 0 1 2 1 4 -3 1
16 Liverpool 2 0 1 1 3 8 -5 1
17 West Ham United 4 0 1 3 2 10 -8 1
18 Crystal Palace 2 0 0 2 0 2 -2 0
19 AFC Bournemouth 2 0 0 2 0 4 -4 0
20 Arsenal 2 0 0 2 0 5 -5 0

This is something we do need to put right quickly.

We do have the chance to do this by swapping from three at the back to four at the back, without telling Chelsea what is happening but I’m not sure how that will go.  Up front we could have a forward line of Welbeck Lacazette and Alexis but I suspect that would be too much for an away game at Battle.  Sorry Stamford Bridge.

So, assuming it is a three at the back we could have

Alexis Lacazette Ozil

Xhaka Ramsey

Kolasinac                              Bellerin

Monreal Koscielny Mustafi

Cech

Beached we might find…

Ospina, Holding, Mertesacker, Elneny, Walcott, Welbeck, Giroud,

Other odds and sods

Henry Norris at the Arsenal

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103 Replies to “Chelsea v Arsenal: the supporters and the team; the injuries and the discipline.”

  1. Re your first paragraph. Are you having any other issues with your web site? The reason I ask is because I’ve notice a ‘Not Secure’ alert in my URL bar (on Chrome) at the beginning of your web address. On further investigation I get a whole load of other security warnings. Did you know about this?

  2. I am hoping for a rare Arsene Wenger masterclass in tactical supremacy today(he usually relies on the players themselves more).
    But the players must know that this is a defining game too.

    Anyway i would play:

    Ospina
    Bel Mus Kos Kolas
    Xhaka
    Nelson Elneny Ramsey/Wiltshire Danny/Alexis
    Laca/Giroud

    The ones behind the /are posible subs providing we do not need any subs before through injury. Of course this all gets messed up if we get a red, as any formation would do.

    Team needs a little shaking up and stirred right now, but what do i know?

  3. …………………..cech…………………….
    bellerin……koscielny……must/monr…….kolasinac
    …………………..xhaka……………………
    …………….jack……….elneny…………….
    lacazett………….giroud………………sanchez

    ozil ramsey giroud to come on if the game needs it.

  6. If as suspected Ozil will not be available for Chelsea this afternoon, I think Le Prof will consider starting Ramsey who trained on Saturday in this match in place of Welbeck who I’ve started in midfield. Then move Welbeck who have to start to the right side of the front three. He can be interchanging positions during play with Lacazette and Sanchez.

    My rearranged 3-4-3 Arsenal starts and bench for Chelsea.

    Cech
    Koscielny Mustafi Monreal
    Bellerin Ramsey Xhaka Kolasinac
    Welbeck Lacazette Sanchez.

    Bench:
    Ospina Holding Chambers BFG Wilshere Walcott Giroud.

    If Ramsey can’t start, then Wilshere should start in his place. And I think Koscielny and Mustafi can be inter switching positions during play when necessary and when it’s comfortable for them.

  7. Para

    “I am hoping for a rare Arsene Wenger masterclass in tactical supremacy today”

    Do you have to have a dig, no matter how subtle, whenever you post?

    As I said to you yesterday….give it a rest.

  8. Nitram
    What do you mean a dig?
    I can only speak what i think.
    If one is willing to cover up truth as one sees it, then one is surely willing to speak lies too. Think about that.

  9. Just reading ghe Guardian’s presentation of the game.
    Can’t beat them on negativity and BS

    Among all that :

    “The malcontent Chilean, who scored a stunner in that quiet affair against FC Koln on Thursday, is on the bench, Arsene Wenger clearly deciding he isn’t fit enough to start yet.”

    Wonder who told them Alexis was malcontent ?!?!? Any interview ? Twitter ?

    They just present it one way. Can’t stop themselves. Just hope we fare well without Ozil and shut them up…. Not that I am feeling too positive either. At least we’ve got our best backline again lined up.

  11. Arsenal: Cech; Mustafi, Koscielny, Monreal; Bellerin, Xhaka, Ramsey, Kolasinac; Lacazette, Welbeck, Iwobi.

    Subs: Ospina, Mertesacker, Maitland-Niles, Elneny, Sanchez, Walcott, Giroud.

  13. I’ve missed out on Le Prof’s starts and bench by 1 & 2 for our Chelsea match. Le Prof has shown to preferred Iwobi to start ahead of Sanchez who I’ve started for the match. And among the 7 he has on his bench, Maitland-Niles and Elneny are not included on my own bench but Chambers & Wilshere are on it alongside the other 5 Le Prof has on his own bench who I also have on my own bench.

    Notwithstanding my 3 missed out on Le Prof’s starts & bench, Arsenal will beat Chelsea to win the match.

  14. Personally I think it’s time to ditch the three at the back.

    However, whichever formation wenger opts for , what’s important today is for arsenal to put in a disciplined, professional performance with some kind of sensible, tactically practical plan in place.

    In other words, the opposite of the Liverpool game.

  15. Tony Attwood
    Is that the real line up? If so, not bad. Hope Iwobi drops off alongside Xhaka and Ramsey for a midfield 3.

  16. ARSENAL ARSENAL ARSENAL ARSENAL ARSENAL ARSENAL ARSENAL ARSENAL ARSENAL ARSENAL ARSENAL ARSENAL ARSENAL ARSENAL ARSENAL ARSENAL ARSENAL ARSENAL ARSENAL

  31. Good game decent reffing no silly bookings pretty clean all round , no moaning on the blog my word I think I’ll have to pinch myself

  33. No praise for Arsenal performance from the commentator, seem as if they were expecting Chelsea to dominate. Come on Arsenal.

  36. Well….over commentary team showed their bias early on….when Pedro went clear. He says he was all ready to shout goal….

  37. Commentator say, reason for Arsenal strong performance is because of no Ozil. They always find a way to have a dig.

    Let hope the team can keep this performance in the second half.

  44. Well…when their players dive to get our players booked….we can’t complain about genuine no calls!!!!!!!…..

  49. These offsides against us, requiring freeze frame to be conclusive… How come we never get the benefit of doubt??

  57. Super performance….

    The people who expected a hiding (blogettas and the media)… now go on a hiding please.

  59. Wo…..shearer and Schmielcel say they don’t know what rules are now…..

    And they are Pundits!!!!!!!

    Seriously!!!!!!!!!!?……

  60. Interesting that LiveScore comments on Kolasinac and Bellerin cards of
    “After a tactical foul, XX is lucky to only receive a yellow card”.

    (Arsenal:Chelsea)
    Shots on target 2:4
    _off target 5:4
    Corners 1:5
    Offsides 2:4
    Fouls 15:11
    Yellow 3:2
    Red 0:1
    Goal kicks 8:9
    Treatments 7:6

    % Arsenal Possession
    _5 56
    10 46
    15 50
    20 46
    25 48
    30 48
    35 45
    40 46
    45 46
    45+3 46

    50 50
    55 49
    60 50
    65 48
    70 47
    75 48
    80 48
    85 49
    90 48
    90+5 49

  61. A Chelsea player’s upper body was leaning in reducing the gap. I’ve seen bigger margins of offside goals allowed to stand this season, so eff off.

  62. A very good point. Well played. clean sheet against the defenders at Stamford Bridge.
    To those who will start the criticism: get stuffed!

  66. The Guardian said it was a ‘desperately poor’ ‘low quality’ match. Not my opinion but hey they know their readers.

  67. Those groin injuries take lots of TLC. He usually gets injured in his brave attempts to win the ball. Last time it was against Man City, with a challenge on Sagna. No exception this time.

  68. There’s no way I can accept the PGMOL officiating as fair.
    The cards dished out to Arsenal & the usual shit chat with Arsenals protagonists shows the trained bias. There were several high foot fouls not called and explaining to Conte why his team were reduced to 10 men was out of order. Conte should have been sent off just as Fabregas & Willian should have been booked for dissent & trying to get a fellow professional carded.

    The offside call is questionable as yet again the official must have been prompted by bias rather than actual sight.

  69. I thought we were slightly unlucky not winning that game, as Ramsay shot hit the post, then marginal offside, but a draw is fair enough, we dominate first half and Chelsea came back second half.
    Good performance from a team who I’m told are not playing for the manager anymore.

    Let’s hope Danny’s injury is not serious, feel for him, each time his performance is picking up, he gets injured, so unlucky.

  70. A good game by the team….good performance…. How I wish Lacazette scored that goal or Ramsey’s shot was just a few inches towards the goal – that would have made a great performance.

    The players were definitely up for the fight and Wenger was spot on with his selection. Sanchez on the bench – that was some statement of intent.

    Couldn’t watch the match – just in from church – but reading the updates and comments I can tell it was satisfactory.
    I finally think the officiating is getting closer to what it should be.

    Now let’s climb up the table. I know these guys have it in them to hold their own on any given day. 2 down, 3 of the top 6 to go. With this attitude, we can beat any of them.

    I hope Welbeck is OK, don’t want him out for some length – he’s been good since the season kicked off. Welldone guys, you’ve really tried.

    My weekend is almost perfect – Arsenal played well, Hamilton won the almost impossible at a Marina bay but DTigers lost at Afrobasket.

  72. Menace why did you never become a ref . Now let’s see maybe it’s because you’d be fecking hopeless incredibly biased and make yourself look a complete tool . But please keep up the good work your keeping us all amused

  73. @ Menace, it was definitely offside for Mustafi’s goal. I thought the ref was lenient on both team. He could have given a penalty to Chelsea for Xhaka bear hugging Luis in the box, preventing him from going for the ball. Anyway, the team gave their all and that’s all I could ask of them. On to the next match.

  74. Menace
    The only question about the offside was; could Mustafi have been any more offside and not been back at the Emirates?
    Which ‘high foot fouls’ were you referring to? The only one I could think of was by Moses on Lacazzette early in the game.

  75. Much better from arsenal today.

    We kept our shape and played with discipline. We threatened and should have really nicked it, but defensively we were a world away from the Liverpool game and other games this season.

    I thought Ramsay was excellent. He defended well when he had to and made surging runs at the right time.That’s how he should play in future.

    Also, it seems clear to me that we are better off without Ozil at the moment.

  77. Although it would be somewhat churlish to criticise Arsenal after such a fighting display this afternoon, I cannot forget the indiscipline of Mustafi in being offside when completing a disallowed goal.
    There can be no excuse for any player remaining in an offside position in a set-piece. They have ample time, as a rule, to check that they are onside.
    A schoolboy error which should not have occurred. 😉

  78. Hannibal
    Do you enjoy wading through countless negative posts even when Arsenal produce a good performance like that? I don’t. It’s the same old negative agenda and it’s tedious. Especially on this site. It’s the old ‘some people are never satisfied’.

  79. Para

    “If one is willing to cover up truth as one sees it, then one is surely willing to speak lies too. Think about that.”

    Bloody hell, I didn’t realize I was addressing Confucius himself.

    Still that’s probably due to the time of Month.

    As for the match. Great point from the lads today thanks to yet another ‘Arsene Wenger masterclass in tactical supremacy’.

    I always knew he had it in him.

    Or perhaps, as some would have us believe, Wenger just told the lads to ‘go out there and make it up as you go along’.

    Also, another good performance from Michael Oliver. No, he wasn’t perfect and made mistakes in favour of, and against both sides, but the offside was correct, as was the sending off.

    Whatever the mistakes I just feel that with Oliver he is trying to be balanced. And that is the most important thing.

    Well played lads.

  80. Hang on no one is moaning . It’s a great lovely sunny day , big smiles from everyone not only did we a get a point away to quality side we played well .I thought this site was positive , so let’s promote positivity

  82. Jax
    Menace is probably referring to the overhead kick by Luiz in a packed penalty area that nearly decapitated Kos. He got a yellow card but it warranted red I thought, given the one Mane got last week.

  83. Am with Menace; those offsides, even though on replays prove correct, the fact they are so wafer-thin suggests refs are prompted by bias rather than sight. If their sight is so sharp how did Marriner fail to spot Bellerin being upended 5 yards from where he was standing? Or the two clearer offside goals city scored at Watford yesterday? Or Manchester united a couple of weeks back. Had that been at the other end I’ve no doubt in my mind that Kolasinac goal would have stood.

    City scored two goals against us last season and we get told it’s difficult to see these things in real time. Point is there’s a pattern here; for us it’s easy to disallow a goal for offside, but easy to allow our opponents offside goal to stand against us and argue they’re hard to spot in real time. I am happy that the Kolasinac goal was offside and was ruled out, but would also like to see the next offside goal we concede ruled out for the same reason. Somehow I doubt this will be the case, we’ll hear the usual talk of how the game is faster these days, how difficult it is for officials to pick these things up in real time, blah blah blah. And therein lies the problem.

  84. Hannibal

    Are you being serious? Do you actually read your own posts?

    Anyway, it was an attempt at humour actually. I thought that’s why you were here?

    Sorry if it went over your head.

  87. Here we go: from the Independent.

    ‘Sure, Alvaro Morata headed wide when in front of goal and Pedro squandered a one-on-one, but those misses still weren’t as stunning as Alexandre Lacazette’s. The French striker somehow put the ball over the bar from just four yards out, after Aaron Ramsey bundled through the Chelsea box to hit the post. Danny Welbeck had earlier headed wide from a similarly close position, if not so presentable an opportunity, and it summed up the generally low technical quality of the game up to then.’

    Ramsay ‘bundled through the Chelsea box’ but if that was Hazard it probably be ‘world class Hazard took apart shambolic Arsenal defending’.

  89. MickHazel
    Yes, that was a might hight high.
    I thought there was a hand ball by Moses in the first half also, but nobody has mentioned it, so must have been wrong.
    Somebody is claiming a Kolasinac goal offside. Something else I must have missed.

  92. Al
    It was Mustafi who scored the offside goal.
    It would have been fine had it been scored by Man City.

  93. Hannibal

    Did I upset you in a past life or something? Or was it just a past thread?

    Nitram

    10/09/2017 at 5:26 pm

    Hannibal

    Untold Arsenal: Arsenal News; Supporting the club, the players and the manager

    “I believe the target of anything in life should be to do it so well that it becomes an art.” A Wenger

    That is what is emblazoned across the top of this site. It is there for a reason. It is there to attract supporters of a like mind.

    That is why I come here.

    You are not of a like mind, yet you cant keep away. Why is that?

    This is not to say you haven’t got the ‘right’ to post here.

    This doesn’t mean your point of view is wrong even.

    It’s just I cant figure out for the life of me why you would want to express it on this site, a site that you clearly don’t have any affinity with. A site full of posters such as me, that you fundamentally disagree with ?

    It’s like an opera fan going to a rock concert and then doing nothing but moan about the music.

    I just find it very strange.

    Dwain Kaye

    10/09/2017 at 5:30 pm

    Lol Nitram, all over his face

    …….Sorry if I touched a nerve.

  94. Mick
    Thanks for the correction, knew it was Mustafi but somehow kept typing Kolasinac.. guess am getting used to Kola scoring too much ?

  95. You know the ref bashing here is getting ridiculous when we’re finding ‘bias’ in correctly disallowed goals because they weren’t that blatantly offside. Oliver had a decent game, Arsenal played reasonably well away from home against tough opposition. Let’s not try to blame the refs for not giving us incorrect goals.

  96. No-one is blaming refs for not giving us incorrect goals, it’s for allowing other teams’ incorrect goals against us to stand. Thought I made that very clear, but with some human beings you have to go back and spell it all out again. Urgh.

  97. I comment because it is relevant. Oliver talking to Conte on the side line during a professional game makes the whole extra (4th) official an overkill. If it were Wenger it would have been accompanied by a huge media fest & a sending off to the stands. The FA has to respond to Chelsea with regard to the constant harping on his 10 men ending to games against Arsenal. He & his club need to address the crude play of his arrogant team.

  98. Jax fax wax or whatever, you say no-one mentioned Moses’s handball, did you even read the comment at 1:57pm? Don’t say no-one did when it’s you that isn’t paying attention.

    You and your lot are clearly disappointed with the result today, hence you feel the need to pick arguments with other posters here. What the hell is wrong with you people?? If you can’t be happy with an Arsenal performance why even bother support them??

  99. MickHazel 4:46pm
    Yes, the BBC website report is also questioning why that was deemed yellow only, and they also make comparisons with Mane’s red last week.

    So for those having a go at us it’s not just Arsenal fans that pick these inconsistencies up.

  100. ‘A Chelsea player’s upper body was leaning in reducing the gap. I’ve seen bigger margins of offside goals allowed to stand this season, so eff off’
    There was no ‘leaning in’ Chelsea player at all. Almost the whole of Mustafi’s body was clear of the nearest defender. Just his left foot was level. I’m not interested in what would have been or not given in other matches. Couldn’t care less. That’s a useless argument trolled on this blog ad finem.
    There were actually two Arsenal players off side at that free kick, although I doubt if the most forward of them (Kolasinac) would have been considered active.
    I’ll note your ‘eff off’ for future reference.

  101. ….and I was satisfied with the result. Not pleased, but a point a Stamford Bridge is something to cherish. No complaints from me.

  103. How ironic being informed that I’m inattentive by a complete fool who misidentifies Arsenal players.

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