More grey, less black and white please

51 Replies to “More grey, less black and white please”

1. I am afraid you too have gobbly gooked by Mr Wenger

2. Just came in: Vermaelen will not play for Belgium this midweek because of his injury. Something that the Belgium manager seemed to know already last week as he had called up another defender to cover up for Vermaelen if he would not be fit enough. He did play on Saturday for Arsenal. Not very good but well you know the reason now.

3. What load of bollocks Arsenals team are not a good team playing poorly but a bad team with nondescript players playing to there poor level A product of wengers terrible transfer deals in recent years

4. great article and i feel the same way, lets support our players
   instead of putting them down let any critisism be constructive
   rather than badmouthing individuals its good to come to Untold Arsenal to read a decent column, dont want to grovel to much but thanks.

5. You are correct, we need more grey.

   I think people are just frustrated with the attitude at the moment. Most of the players are high quality, but are being let down by either tactics or application. I trust it to come good, but we will need a change of attitude or tactics. Man u look far more committed to the cause than our guys at the moment. I cannot understand why. Possibly tiredness or lack of genuine competition. Irrespective I am seeing a darker shade of grey at the moment. Hope it comes good soon.

6. Vermaelen is not the 1st player to play with an injury and would not be the last.
   Just like Wenger, you are making excuses. When is that going to stop?

   If you bought something from tesco and it’s bad, you would not say “well the last thing i bought from tesco is fine so i’ll manage”. Those guys are paid huge sums to play. Its their job and they should do it well.

   People get fired everyday from their jobs for less than the excuses you and Wenger put up for this players.

   Oh by the way, isn’t it ironic that you write about how the economy of football doesn’t reflect the current economic realities and yet don’t want to use that measure for the players?

7. Agreed. One of the biggest issues we have at the moment is fragile confidence. And it can’t help with the over-reaction of the crowd at any setback. (Away fans aside).

8. Asd,
   since when is supporting Arsenal the same as buying something in Tesco?

9. A lot of truth in there, and you confirm what I have suspected about tommy for a few weeks. Similar rumours about Poldi. Maybe tommy should be rested for a week or two to get over his injury, if it is that simple, but tommy is certainly not rubbish. I can understand frustrations, I feel them at times but no point in taking things out on players. If there are problems, it is not with the players. I feel that for whatever reason, and maybe very good reasons, the squad has been left a bit light after the summer, and the p,ayers are suffering. The endless internationals are not helping problems with our squad , this is where the bigger squads have the advantage. Now, lots of talk about the board, manager….and I am as guilty as most, however a few good results and many…if not all will stop even thinking about the role of Ivan or phw in the grander scheme of things. Adams is a club great, but at times, like some other ex arsenal players, he really can talk a load of self serving shite. Although he is entitled to his opinion of course! Tony, you did not get the job, even if allegedly rvp wanted you in, get over it! If you believe Stewart Robson, wenger would have constantly undermined you even if you had become our number two anyway!

10. Since footballers started earning crazy salaries

11. Is there a season Arsenal as a club would not find something to blame and the board and Wenger would man up and say yes we messed up?

12. Asc,
    So you are a bit jealous?
    Mind you I agree with them earning crazy wages…..

    Hmmm but wait a minute…isn’t the Arsenal board one of the clubs who tries to not go over board on paying too much money????? And that is part of the things you blame them for not keeping their best players who wants to earn crazy salaries??

    So if we would pay them all 10.000 a week (still crazy wages imo) you would feel better? Do you know any players apart from maybe Frimpong who want to play for that kind of money?

13. And Asd, I am not blaming anyone. I’m trying to add some colour.

14. Walter, you have spent a lot of time on this article.
    But I am wondering who is reading it.
    Last season Untold’s discussions were dominated by people who were contributing to the web site because they were in sympathy with its aims.
    This season we seem to have a lot of new contributors who do not. So in order to get to the reasonable contributions I find I have to plough through a lot of rubbish.
    I don’t know why this is.
    Anyway, I enjoyed the article and the arguments presented in it.
    The trouble is, tomorrow or the next day there will be a new set of illogical anti-Arsenal features in the press.
    It becomes a full time job to combat them.
    Anyway, I will carry on looking on Untold for articles like this one.

15. Walter, thank you for bringing sanity back to this quarter!

    I assume Tony was ditched that “night”, so joining the OMG daytrippers?

    The only people who can change the tune, are those training at London Colney. The average supporter knows he has no control over the weather, so he accepts that he has no control over The Arsenal. Tony, get other the rebuff, that is life!

    Rupert Cook is a fiction writer.

    COYG

16. Walter
    Footballers are on crazy wages and there is nothing i can do about that. Just do your job and do it well.
    I’m pretty sure most of the so called “AAA’s” which i belong to know its not our God given right to win a trophy but the display’s against UTD and Norwich are unforgivable.
    Before we blamed youth for those kind of performances but now we have lots of players in their mid 20’s and above.
    Did i want the club to give RVP 200k? Yes because he delivered last season.
    I’m not an advocate of the socialist wage structure we currently have. CJ just got a new deal, for what exactly if i may ask? Yes he has improved over time but what has he achieved?
    I’m more pissed off with Wenger and Ivan than the players.

17. You are right its not black and White or even the 50 shades in between it is simply reality, our team is about the 4th-5th best in the EPL,It simply is not as strong as either Manchester sides or Chelsea,hence we have been beaten twice and drawn the other game, On paper its a close thing between us and Spurs for the 5th spot,All this does not mean we cant beat a side that on paper looks stronger nor does it mean we are guaranteed to beat the Evertons,Fulhams or Stokes of this world, just that we are more likely to,by the same process the teams above us are not certain to beat us but over the course of a season the best will rise to the top and we will find a leval,Everton and West Brom/Ham will slip. Liverpool will crawl back into 7th and we will have a glorious victory over a top Three side and an ignominious defeat by a side in the bottom three.All in all its best not to kid oneself but to be realistic, If Podolski and Gervinho had taken off, Giroud had Hit the ground running and Santi Cazorla had somehow been missed by all the opposition managers,(because they have to a degree nullified him by denying him space recently),we could have flattered a little in the early season.We have however somewhat predictably beaten or nearly beaten all the side we have been expected to beat and lost or drawn with all the sides who look to be superior to us. Just to remind you all that Fulham have in fact the same number of points as Arsenal and we had a last minute penalty to win the game!!!

18. Since we’re talking colours Walter, the fact of the matter is that no matter the colour you use to paint the picture, it’s still gonna come out ugly. There’s absolutely no excuse acceptable for Santos’ behavior, not even if Van Persie were his brother. He gave the impression he was more concerned with the shirt than the game. Believe me Walter, if he took the jersey after the match, none of us would have raised any eyebrows.

    As for Vermaelen, his dip in form started towsrds the end of last season, he had no ankle injury then. That said, we can grope at different excuses and reasons and deny the facts, but the facts will remain.

    I’m no moaner or AAA, I can even call myself an AKB, but facts are facts. We have coaching problems along with management problems and the sooner we faced them, the better. Making lame excuses definitely won’t help.

    I sure love Vermaelen and Santos, and Wenger and all the rest of them, but we are all frustrated and the three of them stand out.

19. The truth is always more grey than black or white, but football is all about emotion.

    Rational debate and lucid reasoning after a defeat or a poor game is not reasonable to expect – it makes sense to me that reaction is often coloured to the extremes.

20. This article reads like a rebuttal, a reaction to widely held comments, as a way of having a dig at those who have criticised Santos, as being anti-Arsenal. I have read this blog for a while and have grown tired of the unquestioning support of “Arsenal/Arsene Wenger” whatever happens. These are grown men, paid a fabulous salary, Wenger especially, to produce results and results are not being produced. My first sport is rugby union and I despaired during the 80s when England failed despite their resources. Then came Geoff Cooke and Clive Woodward who got rid of the old excuses. In future England players would be given the absolute best but, in return, would not be indulged if they did not give of their best. Sadly, I think Arsenal players are not supported properly and, when they fail, as they do often, are indulged. Arsenal really seems in a mess to me and it is hard to see how to stop this.

21. Fact is for some unknown reason the entire squad is not performing. The team look disjointed.To throw away a two goals lead twice in a short period of time It is not acceptable by any fan.

    If you look the Man U team there is nothing either in the midfield or defence that scares opponents.One thing they have is insatiable appetite for a fight. Everton they stand on their face and beat them on their ground.Not that they are equipped with better players than us or Chelsea but clearly the players stand for the cause.Where our team got nothing to show.

    In such situation for a fan is a bit of ask.I believe we have to admit what we see and not negate the fact that are unveiling in our eyes.

    Not that i am defending the boo guys but reality is reality.

    I guess is better to focus on the inner negativity of the team rather its surrounding as the main cause of the surrounding negativity is the team and its management.This is not an Arsenal team.
    Vermalen might have some knock and is not at his best but the fact remain the goals that concided are not excusable to the fact he got injury.

    Tell me what has to do the first goal that gifted Manure with knock or injury ?Had he been bitten on a run or any physical challenge I will buy your argument.
    He is becoming very erratic, unstable.He lost hi coolness.

    Santos is not blessed with pace therefore has become a target mainly from all oppositions.THIS WHERE WE HAVE TO FOCUS FIRST.THE BOOING ISSUE SECOND.

    I am not slaughtering Santos as he has other quality.More of left midfielder than a defender as i rate him high technically.He Uses his body seamlessly to dispossess the ball from others.But he is a culprit for not showing fighting attitude and footballing anger.He can be friend with whom so ever he want this not issue for the fan.At half time to swap a shirt while not showing any of this is a murder specially when you are playing against our sworn enemy .
    So please don’t lump it all to the fans.Look carefully at HIS attitude as well.

22. Off topic, but Webb against the spuds. Guess even the pgmol could not give us dean again for that fixture

23. 50 plus years and I have never or will never boo or hate an Arsenal player. I envy that they can play even one game in the shirt.

24. “Sadly I think that Arsenal players are not supported properly” says pliget and how right he is. Over the past decade, following the heady days of Arsene’s beginning, the fickleness of the modern Gooner has come to the fore. Players have been singled out for exasperated groans for the odd mistake, resulting in more mistakes, resulting in outright booing and abuse. All this in the crazy belief by some that an improvement in performance will result.
    The saddest thing of all is that most of this lack of support originates at the Emirates, a place which should at all times resound with 100% backing for whoever wears the shirt.
    I get the impression now that many Gooners simply have to have a scapegoat on whom to direct their displeasure.
    Whether this is because of a lack of perceived success in recent years or envy of the bought success of rival clubs I do not know.
    The fact remains that if we are to return to the glory days, these fainthearted supporters must change their attitude, stop the nitpicking and support the team at all times.
    If they can’t do this, their so-called following of our great club will continue to do more harm than good.

25. @Nicky
    Ask yourself what changed from Arsenal fans cooing at everything Wenger and the players did to being openly critical and fed up…
    It did not happen overnight. It has taken years of the same errors and under performance. This is not an issue with the fans – I actually think fans have been very patient. The issue lies with the club, manager, and players.
    Arsenal continue to get great support but they are not repaying that support at the moment (indeed not for a while)

26. Nicky, I think things are even worse than you say with some so called fans, I have been on forums whereby they actually want the team to lose to further their agendas……..sayings like things have to get worse before they get better……..and these people are not all spuds sleepers or trolls.
    Not unique to Arsenal though…..seems to be the way of the world, instant success, instant failure, instant judgement

27. Walter this is a good article and you are correct in drawing attention to the need for all fans to show some old fashioned respect to the team and manager.

    However, part of the disrespect seems to be a deliberate campaign and quite well organized, this is hard to change and it is very hard to reason with those involved.

    Even here on UA we seem to get a series of the doom and gloom merchants back stabbing the team and manager – they are especially joyful and vocal if the team does not perform well. These back stabbers seem to operate on a rotational basis – as soon as one is embarrassed and heads off for a rest or change of identity another appears. We need to think through a more appropriate response to these characters.

    Just on the subject of attacks – do we know who was responsible for the recent cyber attack on UA – are we in a position to name and shame?

28. Walter good article. Far too much doom and gloomers around just now unfortunately!

    @asd
    You’re a joke!
    You write that you’re part of the “AAA” yet you still come on to a pro Arsene/Arsenal site and attempt to argue your points?
    RVP should have got 200k? After last season? That was only one decent season out of eight. According your other comments every football player for Arsenal should have been giving his all? Again RVP one in eight where does that leave him in your thinking. Very much like most of your comments you’re cluless.
    Ever think that RVP already had his new deal in place before annoucing to the world he wouldn’t be re-signing? He was neevr going to re sign.
    I think you belong with the other C***S at Le Grove.
    Gooner for life!

29. To win the League Cup, the FA Cup or even the EPL, is nominally competing against the same philosophy. That philosophy seems to be: hit them early and hit them often. What that has to do with soccer/football, I don’t know And football is not (supposed to be) part of that. Study the laws. Hitting players is not supposed to be part of the game.

    Referees in the UK may tire from calling common illegalities, that does not make the actions legal. Referees should call whatever it is they see. Regardless of who is home or away. To do otherwise is going to place UK teams at odds in International Friendlies, UEFA competitions or FIFA competitions.

    Officiating mistakes should not determine UEFA or FIFA rankings. If the FA wants to allow bonehead mistakes to determine who wins and loses in the EPL, there is nothing UEFA or FIFA can do.

    But the AAA doesn’t care. No matter what happens, Wenger is wrong.

    Gord

30. It does seem increasingly difficult to keep rational in this increasingly irrational world. Some have even invented justifications for that. Remember only that it’s reasoning that sets us apart from animals.

31. the definition of a supporter is that he/she is behind the team ;that he/she backs the team despite the circumstances. so as a fan one goes to watch matches so as to back your team. of course you want some entertainment too but obviously the prime objective is to back your team. the only thing a supporter is in control is his/her body/speech. what happens on the pitch is beyond a single individual’s control but collectively many individuals can effect a change. so when individuals come together to effect a change it clearly shows on the pitch, examples are AFC vs MANC and AFC vs AC Milan. in both these cases supporting really effected a change, although the odds were stacked against arsenal winning said games. so what happens if individuals collectively spew negativity, obviously the effecr is going to be negative. I think the fans reaction to santos is the prime reason why arsene wenger dropped him and not his form. if form was to be so all of starting XI should have been dropped. poldi should not have been playing nor should have been vermaelen or cazorla, if form is the only criteria.
    all this frustration is mere psychological. human nature is such that it faults uncontrollable situations for their personal miseries like the rain; the fortune; the black cat crossing; or the time.all these circumstances are out of our control. so I think all these AAA sprouting negativity is down to their own personal miseries. what these AAA think is that they somehow are obligated by arsenal and its player to make them feel better. so what they do when they dont feel better…. they dump it on the players and the manager and the board. they have a sense of entitlement that only arsenal can provide.
    all these demand to buy £30 million A-lister is not because they want to see a sustained arsenal but to make themselves feel better that arsenal bought the said A-lister. the only solution to make AAA an endangered species is to inundate their “gooblydock” cycled garbage with some aggressive supporting from true supporters.

32. Wow, so the club selling its captain and best player for the second year running, suffering the same defensive weaknesses for 5 years running, being charged the highest ticket prices for 9 years running, pinning our hopes on notoriously injured players being fit 5 years running, and being Made to believe a top4 finish and domestic cannot co-exist for 3 years running Is a result of “doom&gloom merchants” and poor support? Quite how that works is beyond me. Fans have been extremely patiently and are not disloyal for being fed up of suffering the same fate season after season. Pathetic article from pathetic so called gooners who think they are more loyal because they accept being pissed on and told its rain. You actually tried to excuse Santos’ unproffesional behaviour! He is not the reason we lost but epitomises the lack of focus in the squad. Would a player do that under fergie? The team reflects the manager!! Wenger and the board must go! Not one without the other. But that is highly unlikely so expect more of the same. There has been absolutely NO reason to suggest otherwise. Blind faith IS NEGLECTFUL and COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE!!!!!

33. Really good article. If the AAA had any shame they would hide their faces, after reading your superb piece.

    Agree with bjtgooner, its an organised AAA campaign through media and blogs to ‘influence’ fickle or unwary supporters.

34. I only watch on television, but support during some of the Cup matches seem to be a lot better than most of the league matches. I have heard that this is because certain supporters have been priced out of attending, the sort of supporters who sing and shout, etc. Do you guys think there is a way to bring these supporters back to the stadium, in terms pricing and/or attendance schemes?

35. And just to clarify, I’ve been to every home game since we moved to the Emirates, never boo’d any arsenal player in my life, even at home! Going and cheering the team on no matter what is the job of a true supporter. Not accepting the crap that’s going on and keeping stum so I’m not told to eff off and support spurs! So that bollox about sprouting negativity- as though our unhappiness magically makes the team play bad- is exactly that…bollox! Because what is said in the blogs, pubs, work canteens and living rooms remains there come match day, you cheer and chant and banter the oppositions fans like your life depends on it!
    But I will be just as loud during the black scarf movement with other gooners that actually care about Arsenal and act as though its our club, not accept what we’re fed. Peter Hill Wood loves you submissive lot. He hates fans like us because we all know Arsenal without the fans would be nothing! It’s not his club its OURS!

36. Your definitely right there Sav! The only time you hear a collective roar is when we score, but it dulls down after the game kicks off again. I went to the carling cup game at Coventry, much much louder but the depressing thing was that outside the stadium before the game arsenal fans taunted other arsenal fans with chants such as ” you only came cos its £10″ and ” cheap family day out, it’s just a cheap family day out”! Vile! I wish those fans were that created towards away teams!!

37. There’s a great deal of truth in what you say Walter but there’s also the fact that many fans are disappointed at what is seen as lack of effort. I’m pissed off and I’m certainly no newbie…65 years of supporting through thick and thin (and believe me some of those “thins” still make today’s side look like world beaters!) But as said elsewhere, when you’ve been used to having caviar and cream it’s very difficult to switch to the sea biscuit and brak water diet which has been served up for the last month or so.

    And on the subject of the last month or so…this is off topic but there doesn’t seem to be anywhere more appropriate, is what is happening (or not happening) with the ref revues? We’ve played 5 games since the last Arsenal review and whilst I know that the objective is to cover all games, holding up the Arsenal games really isn’t on. By the time the game review gets published, many of the details will be faded from the memory. Whilst say QPR v Reading is important for the overall stats, perhaps the average Gooner doesn’t give a stuff? I want the Arsenal info and ideally, no later than 1 week after the game. It’s getting to be a case of “Arsenal Untold” and I don’t think anyone wants that.

38. where i come from there is a saying once bitten twice shy!for how long will it take for arsenal to be shy?last season was the worst start in 50yrs the media said,this season is worse than last year,the trend continues,seriously where are we going!no one is bigger than the club,,and that includes wenger,rvp,gazidis the moron hill wood!we have to correct the situation.why do we increase gazidis salary and yet refuse to do so to good players.what has gazidis done?When teams like fulham/schalke come to the emirates knowing they are going to take a point(s) something is wrong.you do not have to be an AAA or a magician to know that!I urge wenger to reconsider what he is doing,coz it seems it is not working for arsenal.he should try something else.remember it took him 6yrs to realize project youth is not working.by the way i am not AAA, in fact where i come from we love arsenal but facts are facts!we are becoming another liverpool

39. Walter how can you say in one breathe it”s despicable to boo
    and yet hate players even ex is ok, i think RVP deserves better than that .

40. @Jayramfootball.
    Which came first my friend, the chicken or the egg.

41. Everyone with some intelligence knows nothing is black and white.

    Americangooner, I think some fans are miserable because they spend a lot of money at Arsenal and wonder why when they commit so much financially the team can’t expend the energy to match that.

    It’s coming to the point where some people are blaming the fans for Arsenal’s poor performances. It’s not the fans who built this team.

    You must support your team whatever, that’s what some believe. Well I would NEVER boo players, once they’re on the field you give them 100% encouragement. But as for the attitude of the club, well when do you say enough is enough? When ticket prices exceed £100 and yet the team is still looking average? Fans are always the easy mark because people like Gazidis and Kroenke can walk away whenever they feel like it; I doubt they have much emotional attachment to Arsenal, but fans are there for life. Some would go hungry just to watch Arsenal, would anyone on the board?

    Put it this way, if you went to the theatre, paid for premium tickets and half the cast didn’t turn up you’d be a little aggrieved.

    And no I couldn’t care less how much a player cost if he gave his all. But quality usually costs money unfortunately. Buying a 30 million pound striker won’t make me feel better unless he delivers. My happiness is not connected to Arsenal’s success either. I have a great life, I won’t boast about it because I don’t like to make others envious.

    Mandy claimed people wanted instant success. There’s nothing instant in wanting your team to win anything after seven years.

    Even Tony has got the glooms. Maybe that’s because he failed to pick up a Solvenian ( I think he means Slovenian or maybe Sylvanian, which would be just odd).

    I’m more interested in hearing about Tony’s ongoing exploits at various dances around the country than reading about tedious old Arsenal. Give us more Tony and I hope you have more success next time.

42. @Notoverthehill, thanks for the factual statement. Working on a novel now.

    I’m not sure why so many of you are crying out for my attention though.

43. good one Walter…..

    @Sav….Nice catch. The Fulham game……It took 2 goals for the crowd to start off. Before that, I heard only Fulham guys screaming.

44. And Sav from Australia, there is no AAA campaign organized by anyone. If you read Arsenal blogs over the last three years you’ll have seen the mood change. There are not three or four people in a dingy backroom huddled over computers plotting the downfall of Wenger.

    The fact that football fans can be so organized and focused is laughable in itself.

45. @ Rupert Cook,
    I enjoyed and agreed with your 9.10 a.m. very much. Not all of it but most of it.
    I too would like a bit more catering review in order to counter balance the serious stuff from time to time.

46. @ Nicky, all of us want the best for the club. I think sometimes the anger directed at people who have different views obscures this fact.

47. In the days of Capello at Madrid, the fans were waving white handkerchiefs, I’ve watched San siro fans boo their teams so this idea that it’s a lack of support from fans that is affecting the team is pure BS.
    Its only Arsenal that finds an excuse for its players when the perform badly.

48. Unfortunately much of the backlash against certain players has come from a general frustration with the direction the club is going.

    Home games are simply painful now – regardless of the result the ground is almost completely devoid of any positivity.

    There have always been players that the fans have rolled there eyes at, and thats the same even at the most successful of clubs but lets now stepped up because its easier to have a go at them as opposed to the directors who are a step removed from the average fan.

    Very few fans expect or even demand trophies – most are just demanding that we compete for them given the financial health of the club and the assurances from management.

    Being out of the title by November and being knocked out of cup competitions by the first difficult away tie we get, is not competing.

49. asd,
    At the rate you people are deriding players, how many would you fire? Remember most of you said Clichy was not good enough, but now when he plays, you see he was a good player. At one time Song was considered a bad player, but Barcelona came for him. Yes, at the moment neither TV5 nor Santos are playing very well, but they are what we have. Who ever thought we would miss Gibbs?

50. there is still some 15-16 matches left before something drastic happens(if it ever happens). and even if we buy someone in january it will only be an addition, a reinforcement. so we are left with the current squad whose form is erratic. so there is no point in bashing any particular player. everyone from the VC to the forward to wenger concur that defensively we need to find our footing. but unless SCSZ and gibbs come back there is no point in reaching rash conclusion. we were doing well during the first few matches. no one was complaining then. the team is going through a tough period and I am pretty sure we will come out with flying colors in the days to come. However, I seriously doubt that the supposed protests will do any good. those protesting are only a reactionary bunch not able to coming to grips with the reality. i am hoping that the protest do not stifle the players.
    sane people will know that players dont go into the field to disappoint the fans. this arsenal team is pretty much different than last year’s. so obviously its difficult to find some rhythm. but as the season gets older we are going to bounce back.
    on the topic of ticket prices, i think its just a hyperbole created by the media. the issues about ticket prices at Emirates are covered well in UA. doing some research will tell you that arsenal season ticket gives fans more value monetarily than for example spuds. so I dont think anyone should be fretting about ticketing.

51. “..Santos who hardly speaks English and has no clue about the football culture in England could have been saved by his former friend. Just saying : I will give it inside would have been enough. Van Persie chose to do it in front of the cameras. Knowing Santos would be dead after that. Maybe NOW Santos can have a reason to hate Van Persie.”

    I’m color-blind. But to conjure an excuse for Santos’ wooha, and in the same breathe theorised RVP’s evil intention to setup Santos really takes the cake.