The AAA is working their socks off to create more negativity.

90 Replies to “The AAA is working their socks off to create more negativity.”

1. WoW!!! That is crazy, I often find it too m uch effort to comment even once let alone 3 times under various aliases!

   I need to adopt this pproach to my defense of Gervinho. At least then I would have some support but may as well put it in here- He scored 2 last night and Hazard says he is the best he has ever played with but samll wonder he battles at the emirates when fans feel fit to boo him!

2. I’m fairly sure I know who Steve O is as a guy with the same name posts on Online Gooner. In fact his comments you posted are exactly what he posted on the Online Gooner forum. Must admit his call on some of the performances wasn’t far wrong but I think he overdoes it on the foul language. The players can be decidedly average at times, just like most players, but to dismiss them with such colourful hyperbole is unfair.

   As for wanting Arsenal to drop out of the top four it’s not such an uncommon view as some think that’ll force Wenger out. There was even Wenger out graffiti at the Emirates. If only the problems at AFC were as simple as poor managing. Doubts should be growing over the stewardship of Kronke and the role of Gazidis. We don’t want Kronke to be a Randy Lerner.

   As for this AAA thing, there is no body of people under this banner. There’s never any mention of some murky AAA movement on any other blog.

   And believe it or not some believe that once Wenger’s gone the club will finally move forward. Not sure that’ll be the case.

   And anyway even if Arsenal finish 7th I doubt Wenger will go or be sacked.

3. I think you will find there is nobody working harder than Wenger right now when it comes to creating negativity!

4. Well said Rupert. Is this the best you can blog about? Surely there are better things about Arsenal to discuss than a single person putting over his view more often than you fancy.
   There’s even transfer speculation to discuss or that Dick Law is in the USA when the transfer window is open. Is that a clear signal that we will not sign anyone or will Wenger negotiate the contract too?
   Something more interesting than this.

5. For me it is simple.
   From the moment on you wish your team to lose a game you stop being a real supporter.

   A real supporter wants his team to win all the games they play.

   A sensible supporter knows that you cannot win each game.

   I like to be a real sensible supporter 😉

6. GoonerDog – I think you won’t.

   So where has that exchange got us? Where is the evidence? Where is the development of the debate?

7. It’s obviously a slow news day at UA HQ.

   I think the AAA has been mentioned in nearly every recent article. I wonder if this is to deflect from the rather too frequent anonymous performances of AFC.

8. He also pasted the same comment on 7am Kickoff!

9. Here is that comment:- http://www.7amkickoff.com/2013/robin-gives-arsenal-the-finger-wenger-gets-blame/comment-page-1/#comments

10. lets get this straight. No true arsenal fan wants us to finish outside the top four…but…if this is the only way it can force the board to improve the squad then so be it. We cant go on aiming to finish fourth as that demonstrates lack of ambition. AW has had several years to bring players through but he either hasnt or he has fail to secure their services on a rolling program. You dont see other teams have this problem and its left us being a selling club of under performers. watching arsenal over the season has left me shaking me head at the lack of depth and strength throughout. We are loosing midfield battles and not supplying the front men. The defense has been poor and not given enough protection. Why sell song and not replace….
    like I said something needs to be done to turn the negative comments around but all the while we sit and wait, we can all have a say as that what we pay our money for.

11. People often ask me why i remain so positive about Arsenal.
    Simple….if i was as negative as some, i would throw myself over a cliff!!
    A the end of the day, and no matter what ANYONE tells you, football is a game.
    If Arsenal losing is the worst thing that happens this week, then i can sleep well at night.
    Arsenal is my outlet, my time to forget all the shit in the world and enjoy.
    Why the hell would i be negative about it??
    If i do not like a movie, i turn it off.
    If following Arsenal made me feel the way some do, i would simply stop watching.
    People like Steveo should be humanely put down to end his suffering!!

12. Pal, finishing outside the top 4 wold mean less revenue, there fore even less money for Wenger to spend.
    Stan is an investor.
    His measure of success are his profits, not where Arsenal finish.

13. Sorry, Paul….

14. What needs to be addressed is the negative vibe coming from a few idiots at the emirates which effects everyone around them they are a detriment to our team continually slating certain players there is a child who sits nearby with gervino on his shirt who is reduced to tears by the derogatory remarks made by these fake arsenal fans

15. Tony I’m a real fan and want the best for Arsenal but simply wishing it doesn’t make it a reality.

    The reality is the team is playing very poor we are not creating and scoring enough goals the attack seems disjointed and we give away goals for fun.

    I’m all about given players chances but if they are not performing then they should be proper competition for places yes we have players but they are not of the require level to push first teamers to perform imo.

    The club has sold its best players year on year players for different reasons but mainly to create profits to cover the stadium outlay. Looking at it the previous shareholders made a killing selling there shares they should have been ask to inject money into the club like other shareholders do to fund the emirates project its been a anchor dragging us down since.

    We were the invinibles at one stage better than Utd did we push on your this position grow our revenue streams no we have gone backwards and instead of investing which would have creating better commerical deals we have made a right pigs ear of it.

    Wenger is unable to admit he is wrong a huge charactor flaw I really think he should go he has kept faith in players who are not good enough to deliver silverware.

16. @Walter, I always want Arsenal to win. But then when we got hammered 8-2 I noticed that Wenger wasn’t slow in getting in some players. Maybe without those transfers we wouldn’t have claimed third spot.

    Now it’s fairly obvious we need some new blood but our manager appears to be dithering and making claims about Arteta being irreplaceable. Plenty of blogs have proved this to be a nonsense and only yesterday I linked to a list of ten available players. Maybe Wenger is on the ball and doesn’t want to give too much away, fair enough.

    But will it take a hammering by Chelsea to make Wenger act? That 8-2 defeat, painful as it was, turned out to be a wake up call. So sometimes a loss can have a good effect.

17. In relation to what we publish, and how often we talk about the AAA, there have been long periods when we have not mentioned them at all. At the moment however they are getting very active, and it does seem to me to be a major issue, worth covering.

    But in case you feel this is all too much, then you might like to note that today marks another particular day in the history of Arsenal 100 years ago – our last season at Plumstead on http://www.blog.woolwicharsenal.co.uk

    The last article before this one on Untold was about the efforts of four clubs to get a new financial agreement in the Premier League http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/26764

    Before that we had a piece on the tactical approaches to refs http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/26752

    And so on. It has become commonplace to try and knock individual articles or the whole site just by sending in comments like “Boring”, or “Haven’t you got anything else to write about” – it is just another phase I guess.

    I am always ready to receive articles for Untold. Just email me Tony.Attwood@aisa.org with the article as an attached word file, with your name as you wish it to appear on the site, at the top of the article.

    There’s no guarantee that every article will be published, and we don’t publish abusive, homophobic, racist, anti-manager and anti-board or anti-player articles, because there are hundreds of other sites that do that. And of course we don’t publish articles that have been or will be published elsewhere.

    But if you have an article that you think will fit into the Untold ethos I will always have a read, and a lot of articles submitted to Untold from supporters who have not written for us before, do get published.

18. Why is there so much negativity? Because Arsenal are stuck in a cycle year after year. Best players sold, replaced by inferior ones. Not good enough to win anything. I think we can all except this for a few years but when it’s going on eight and we have a manager of Wenger’s stature at the helm and nothing changes then negativity is the likely outcome.

19. The problem for Wenger is that he is making a rod for his own back here.

    We are 15 days into January. We have drawn 2 and lost 1 game. Theo Walcott is still not signed. No new players have come in despite a poor start to the season. Other clubs have strengthened.

    There seems to be no urgency at Arsenal at all – maybe they know something we as fans do not. Maybe they are working like crazy to strengthen the squad, but this is a results business – judgement cannot be based on some hope of the unknown.

    I don’t agree with comments in the article – nor do I agree with spamming a site with the same opinion under different user names – but I do understand the pure frustration clearly coming through in the post.

    Whether you are a AFBA – Anyone’s Fault But Arsene’s – or an AAA, or somewhere in between it really doesn’t matter. I think if we are honest we are all worried and confused by the clubs approach at the moment.

20. @Jayramfootball
    Yup you are right, even Arseblog is getting downbeat.

21. Every article which comes out attracts (and is attacked by )the AAA (yes ,they who are figments of our imagaination) just like the bell attracted Pavlov’s dog !

    Down doggy ! Sit doggy ! Stay doggy !Play dead doggies !

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_conditioning#Pavlov.27s_experiment

22. I want Arsenal to win each game but I do think it is unfair to say as soon as you want us to loose you stop being a fan.

    The Logic can be followed- Fan A is unhappy that the team is in its current position- The status quo has been maintained for 7 years without change. Fan A concludes Change may be needed or the Status Quo will endure.

    What is most likely to lead to change? Either Good or Bad results but performance mirroring those of the past 7 years will make no change at all.

    Fan A must therefore hope for better performances however after his hopes are extinguished, and lets be honest they have been, he is forced to option B hoping for a Short period of failure that MAY(however unlikely) lead to future Success.

    I am a Wenger fan so hope he does turn it around but he is accountable and If he fails it is Because I am an ARSENAL fan that I want him to be replaced, (after his contract expires in 2014, as he has earned that respect)

23. as much as its dumb to post multiple posts as that guy did and i don’t support that, you’re completely refuses to acknowledge the thought process in him wanting arsenal to lose games

    he wants arsenal to lose BECAUSE that’s what it will take to wake the club up, stop being so complacent and realise that it cant sit around and assume 4th place is there for the taking. every time we stumble over the finish line we get told ‘pretty good, next year even better!’. it’s a cycle of lack of ambition and underachievement and so long as we scrape 4th place all is great for arsene because ‘its a trophy’ dont forget!

    as for how us losing the CL money would be bad for arsenal. why would it? we don’t spend it anyway. the only way the club will take itself more seriously is when it takes a hit int he one thing it cares about – money. until then its bumbling along as usual. just like someone else said, it took a rout from utd last year and a predictably rubbish start to the season to get wenger to make a few serious signings and this is apparently the only way arsenal are likely to do so again (without selling our best players to fund it as we did with rvp and song in the summer of course).

    what these fans want is a jolt in the neck for the club to wake up and realise the fans aren’t happy, the club isnt good enough and expecting to casually stroll to 4th place each year as a strategy ISNT good. if they think arsenal losing is the only way to achieve that then fair enough. personally i just boycott all merchandise and matches and only watch them on tv. at the end of the day you say they’re not a real arsenal fan but if they werent a real arsenal fan they wouldnt be coming online every fucking day upset about how things are going wrong for arsenal. if they weren’t an arsenal fan THEY WOULDNT CARE. when liverpool have problems you dont see people like me on liverpool blogs crying that things need to change, i couldn’t give a flying fuck. you need to keep that in perspective rather than just labelling people as not being fans just because they subscribe to a fundamentally different belief in what will solve the mess this club is in.

24. Ryan, prove beyond doubt losing will assist Arsenal.
    All it wll do is cut the spending on transfers even more.
    Thought process….what thought process??

25. If wenger is really doing as much harm to the team as some say, if there really is large sums available that he refuses to avail himself of ….as Ivan has stated, then the board really must have a word with him this summer. Stan has invested a lot of money in a club he believes is under marketed. If it really is being run by a megalomaniac only interested in proving his point to the world, then I would be amazed if stan let’s it go on that way, finishing out of the top four for any amount of time will cost him. I do think some of our problems are self inflicted….yes, song. We do need strengthening, some of the tactics may need a closer look , i am not stewart robson by any means but even i do wonder if bould is being used to the full extent of his capabilities……and results are not good enough. Wengers version of football nirvana takes a while to create, and this team are clearly not balanced enough, or yet ready to play like teams past. Some performances make them, look worse than they actually are, this creates its own problems.But if the things being levelled at wenger were true, he would never have achieved what he has, in the more extreme examples, he would have been in a care home long ago.
    As for your mystery poster, pretty sure I have seen his work on several sites, and yes, he is nothing other than prolific……and clearly not a very busy character.

26. Ryan, would you seek to deny that there are some spud fans out there who would love to feel part of any destabilisation and infighting within this club? They could have the most to gain from such activity

27. Far too much publicity is being awarded to the socalled AAa these days. It’s hardly rocket science for genuine Gooners to identify comments originating from that bigoted source and mentally consign them to the refuse bin.

28. GOD AKA Dennis Bergkamp talking on Arsenal’s future.

    http://youtu.be/NaOACsCDJRI

29. Arsenal 2 – 0 Swansea

30. Scott please prove beyond doubt that nothing changing will help the team! If you agree that change is necessary then let us know what your proposals are as I am fairly sure we can all agree that the team losing is likely to bring about change, whether change is going to be for the better ?)

31. I am real Arsenal supporter and for once (or more), i wish Arsenal finnish outside the top four if it will teach the board and Wenger how to reason like Sir Fergie et al.
    How long are we gonna put up with this weak team. Can you compare them with the Invincibles?
    Alll we get is an excuse every match. If had the mind of every fan of arsenal,I WILL BOYCOTT THE STADIUM and watch from the TV sets at home till further notice.
    You parade a team without winning spirit and no striker or defensive midfielder in the EPL! That could work out in Spain not here if the name of your club is Barcelona.
    What annoys me most is that he says a top four finnish is as good as a trophy! Thats your world class coach. Balderdash!
    Let jose Mourinho teach him that even second place is no good.
    And let no one tell me its becos of the new stadium, QUALITY PLAYERS dont cost much. Ask Laudrup about Michu.
    This transfer window is half way done and he is still rumoured to be haggling over Zaha, a player untested in the big waters and who has no real impact to make at Arsenal in the next few years before he is sold.
    If there was a RUMOUR LEAGUE Arsenal would been champions over the last six sesaons.
    They help other clubs to scout for players. They are linked with every good player but never buy any.
    Honestly your coach needs to be in the stock exchange not on the bench anymore. His first few years fine but now…
    Hit me back.

32. Stan needs to go before anything will happen.
    They can sack Wenger and half the playing staff, but until Stan leaves we will remain as stagnate, and best.
    Byron, i never suggested nothing changing would help the team, so do not load your questions!!

33. Slag off other gooners as much as you like- its not them that selects players, decides tactics and organises the defence, sell our players, decides that we don’t need to replace Alex Song etc.
    Some fans have worked out that the only thing that will result in a turnaround of fortunes on the field is a change of manager-and to get that the team has to keep losing. Short-term pain for long term gain.

    I have to ask what would it take for you to see that this Arsene Wenger run set up is not working on the field ?- because it seems that abject performances like the losses to Swansea or Bradford, or the embarrassing ease in which a weakened City side and Chelsea beat us at home do not appear to make any difference to your perception that a failing manager should be unconditionally supported by fans. This is not a sudden drop in standards this year- this is a very predictable decline following the sale and non-replacement of our best players over 5 or more years.
    Its not big money which is beating us now- it is teams like Swansea-and Norwich with a fraction of our budget. We are shocking.

34. Who has been asking for TV5 to not be captain?

35. Re Paul @ 9.27am
    One of our aims is to qualify for champions league, this doesn’t make it our sole aim. I’ve tried discussing previously on how any organisation would set more than one target, (it’s usually three). You have a best, a desired and an essential.

    Best would be to win all competitions you enter.
    Desired would be to win the league or a cup.
    Essential would be to qualify for champions league.

    This is standard planning practice for any organisation, even Man Utd do this.

36. @Scott

    I do apologize that it was a loaded question but the truth is the vast majority of fans want change and I will back anyone who will try and bring it about at the moment and I do believe a loosing run will force change I wont claim to know whether it will be for the better. We will loose some revenue yes but as we apparently can’t find any good players (see Wengers recent January excuse)the lack of money wont make any differece.

    Out of interest what will years of medicority do to our Global marketability?

    I am sure Stan is lining his pockets but the lack of success pre- dates his ownership and he will not likely go anytime soon.

37. I feel there is an AAA in the sense of a larger Alliance that has various strands of interest, and is not a monolith and when blood is in the water, it goes into hyperdrive. Much of the press/media aspect of the AAAlliance was exposed and discussed hereabouts on UA when it went openly viral/toxic in the Arsene Out Campaign of the summer of Cesc two summers ago. The venom toward AW was in full effect and on full display. I won’t rehash but many links could be made to those articles and debates in the comments, plus first-rate articles from Anne to help expose the malfeasance. I don’t know if we have the stamina or acumen to ferret out the dimensions of this round of Arsenal/Arsene bashing, but I’ve no doubt there’s both honest feeling/thought which is, in part but far from wholly co-opted by a variety of those several factions who, for different if overlapping reasons, are lusting for AW’s scalp.

    What equally bothers me is that the side has been clearly weakened and, in my view, been undergoing asset-stripping by the current ownership regime, losing our best, not replacing like for like, valuing net zero transfer balances over quality pitch performers, etc. How much is AW’s doing is easy to guess but, at the moment, impossible to prove, and, in this vacuum, whether he is victim of the board or ruler of the board or loyal servant reduced to playing a rearguard defense of the possible, all impossible to prove on the lack of transparency.

    What is not conjecture is something that struck me from Desi Gunner’s research about our prolific goal scoring: “Did you realize the Gunners have scored 57.5 percent of their goals in 20 percent of their games. Big scores against Reading, Newcastle, Tottenham, and Southampton have contributed 23 goals to the Arsenal tally. That means they’ve only scored 42.5 percent of their goals in the remaining 80 percent of their games. 17 goals in 16 games makes it barely over 1 goal per game.” Desi, who loves the side, has brought out the burning need to bolster the offense. Imo (and many others) there must be a quality purchase. To lament in advance that we – who have been touting our unmatched scouting network and available funds for transfers – cannot match the petro-boys is partly true but will prove ruinously misguided. We will continue down the current spiral if a difference maker or higher quality is not purchased for the striking, and for the midfield service and to bolster the inadequate back line. But the touting of how many goals we have scored, so we’re really alright, must come to an end. And it does a disservice to fans and the club’s prospect when we find ways – like some postings on UA in recent weeks – to pretend that the offense has made up in names and total goals scored what it has lost in consistency and distribution of total goals that went away with the likes of our best and world class difference makers. (And that one was sold directly to Don Fungus is a self-inflicted wound that has bred much of the toxicity that engulfs, rightly and wrongly, much of the fanbase.) The January window has two weeks to run and one lives in hopes that AW will right the ship and achieve 4th place. Imo, that is not a source of pride anymore; but the minimal standard of achievement for our club. If we get there and win the Bean Counters Trophy, well then, bully for their next Christmas bonuses. This year’s “great turnaround” needs to begin in this transfer window, even if we pay, affordably – yes affordably – over market value to boost our morale and address some of the gaping wounds in our play, both with quality. Start with the offense because the string of names is not doing the job; and fix the predictably distressed post-Song midfield. And stop saying who’s out there, ffs, as talents like Ba and Diame are landed by our competition. What is the money being saved for? For you? For the next summer and the next january? Are we truly flush with cash or is there a leech or parasite or business plan sucking it away from football interests on the pitch? The world class medical facility is all well and good, I’m told, but who is being patched up is another matter. We’ll see if Arteta returns after 3 weeks (like Diaby?) and the money-medical nexus can perform at least that much. BUt in the meantime, we have so many games in so short a period of time that, I fear, people will start to use “the schedule” itself as an self-deceiving excuse to defend and deny the club’s failures to have maintained and acquired the quality that has seduced our love.

38. I think like most on this blog, I’ll accept an Arsenal win even if it’s off a miskick that goes in off someone’s backside.
    I know we can’t win every game (much as I’d like it!) but I fear that as much as we owe AW for what he did for us…and it was oh so much, perhaps the time has come to start wondering?
    Let’s face it, we want a Ferrari, we’d settle for a BMW 7, we’re getting a plastic tricycle. But we’re making a profit lads and lasses and, we, the meek shall after all, inherit a stadium and the earth upon which it stands. Unlike others, though, not the mineral rights.

    Just to appease my masochistic side and totally waste a chunk of time that would otherwise be spent crying, I looked at the “won nowt” squad of 1999/2000, the Invincibles of 2003/4 and the current squad.

    Don’t get me wrong…I love my Gooners even Chamakh and Squillaci. But there are times when I really do want to throw my toys out of the cot. And when I look at the players we’ve sold, the players we’ve not bought when we seemed to be favorites to buy them and what we have left, it is more than a bit depressing.

    Top 15 appearances… includes 2 goalkeepers regardless of appearances:

    99/00 Seaman, Manninger, Dixon, Silvinho, Winterburn, Vieira, Keown, Adams, Parlour, Petit, Henry, Bergkamp, Ljungberg, Overmars, Kanu

    03/04 Lehmann, Stack, Lauren, Cole, Vieira, Campbell, Keown, Toure, Parlour, Wiltord/Reyes, Henry, Begkamp, Ljungberg, Pires, Silva

    12/13 Ches, Fabianski, Sagna, Jenkinson, Vermeulen, BFG, Kos, Gibbs, Cazorla, Wilshere, Giroud, Ox, Walcott, Podolski, Arteta.

    Based on Sunday, somehow, I’d have to find a place for Jack, even in the Invincibles squad but at whose expense? Ches maybe as backup, but would the rest even make either bench?

    Like several “wrinklies” here, who go back many years in their support, I’ve almost forgotten the days of “out of the league by November and the Cup by Feb”, which, mercifully have disappeared in recent years. I’d hate to see them returning.

39. You raise some very valid points bob. We certainly need another forward and mf. Lb worries me should Gibbs get injured, and we have just let a cd go, another is suspended. We could quickly find ourselves short on numbers at the back, let alone anywhere else. I think the summer of cesc and the rvp sale, rightly or wrongly have raised the dissent against wenger, have led to so many interpreting what may…or may not be going on inside the club. Not a healthy place to be in in so many ways. But I just cannot get people who want us to drop out of the top four. Like him ….or not, wenger is highly likely to see out his contract. We also know he is financially cautious, maybe even relatively averse to buying in players unless he really….really has to and he is convinced…rightly or wrongly of their abilities. So, a cautious manager, and lack of a top four place, presumably that will seriously hinder his spending in the summer, and all that would entail. During the summer of cesc, it looked like wenger…or someone refused to spend until it was certain cesc and nasri were going….and we had disposed of undine. A repeat of that surely in the interest of nobody who supports this club.

40. Byron, the truth is none of us really know what it will take to turn the club around.
    My opinion is it will take one act, and one alone….Stan leaving.
    What brings about this change is beyond me.
    He seems quite content sitting back watching his stocks rise, with no real care or empathy to the plight of Gooners.
    Maybe it is just my opinion, but i really think a losing run makes him tighten the purse strings even more.

41. Byron, the truth is none of us really know what it will take to turn the club around.
    My opinion is it will take one act, and one alone….Stan leaving.
    What brings about this change is beyond me.
    He seems quite content sitting back watching his stocks rise, with no real care or empathy to the plight of Gooners.
    Maybe it is just my opinion, but i really think a losing run makes him tighten the purse strings even more.
    Admin….i did forward this post, but had an incorrect email address…a missing letter……it is admin, but please deltet it.
    Thanks,

42. Interesting stat on goals scored v numbers played.
    I have had a little ongoing discussion with a few over Theo.
    My issue is he always scores when we score multiple goals, but hardly ever when we need 1-0 winner.
    Maybe he is a true representation of AFC.

43. Walter this is a good article and you are quite right to draw attention to the the antics of the AAA. The AAA do exist even if they are in public denial.

    Initially I believe the term AAA was used to categorize those who described themselves as Gooners but in reality back-stabbed the club, team and manager every chance they got. At this stage they were a collection of individuals, but not a group and not organised.

    From this beginning, these people who claim they do not exist, have organised protests, adopted black scarves and indulged in vicious propaganda campaigns against the manager, club and team. There seems to be a further development in that the AAA viewpoint is published in some elements of the press.

    The presence of the fat Russian and the unproven hope that he will put money into the club seems to have stimulated the AAA and their press contacts to new levels of activity.

    I am not surprised that one member of the AAA tried to post under four different names – I suspect this behaviour is encouraged on one particular site where certain posters repeatedly post using a variety of names and continually agree with themselves – and usually each other.

    There are other posters, who seem to use just one name, some of whom post on UA and are consistent in their anti-Wenger, anti-team and anti-board comments. Why on earth do they do so on this site – are they part of the propaganda campaign, or, are they paid to write such comments and if so, by whom?

44. Tony – are you genuinely looking for a debate? It does not matter what ‘evidence’ is put to you either written or played out at the Emirates or Norwich, Southampton etc you will continue to find excuses for Wenger or ‘positives’ from every embarressing result that become more regular as every barren seasons passes. Your defence of Wenger is admirable but wholly misplaced. I have no doubt you are a genuine Arsenal fan and that it pains you just as much me and other Arsenal fans to see Arsenal’s decline but, despite Wengers success in the past, he is not Arsenal. Over the years more and more fans can no longer accept this decline and Wengers inability to accept that he needs to change to have any chance of reversing this decline. More and more fans no longer accept the same language he repeats year on year, transfer window on transfer window, that we are in the market for super-quality and no desperately needed reinforcements arrive. More and more fans no longer accept that selling our best players year on year is somehow ‘sustainable.’ Wenger has been given the benefit of the doubt so many times by so many fans, myself included, desperate to see the Wenger of old but, alas, we have all realised that these days have gone and for the sake of Arsenal we must move on as sad as that is.

45. @bjtgooner

    As you prove (black scarves etc.) there is an organised campaign against Arsene Wenger at the moment.

    Those who deny it are either ignoring the evidence or trying to pull the wool over everybody else’s eyes.

    I sometimes wonder if the critics actually listen to Arsene Wenger’s interviews and press conferences.

    If they did, they would find he offers plenty of worth while information and analysis, and very little empty phraseology like some others we might mention.

46. bjt,your ignorance astounds me.The Black Scarf Movement has never been an “undermine” Wenger campaign as you claim with such authority.Nor is it funded by Usmanov.It is a movement concerned with the ever spiralling cost of watching Arsenal that is pricing out many locals and storing up a host of problems in the future as a whole generation of fans is being lost to other clubs.There are issues surrounding the increasingly corporate nature of the club with old traditions being replaced for no apparent reason.For example ,Arsenal always played away in yellow and blue;now its purple,burgundy,in fact any colour that the marketing team has decided will prove most popular in Asia.However, this has backfired with this seasons purple kit selling poorly.Now none of these things may be important to you bjt,but they are to me.The founders of this club,a bunch of factory workers, must be turning in their graves at the thought that their modern counterparts cannot afford to watch the Arsenal any more.Even worse is the fact that the supposed custodians of this club used the stadium move as an excuse to flog their shares and make themselves even more wealthy.They chose to sell to an American with no love for the game;whose American franchises have mostly,with the exception of a MLS cup won a couple of yrs ago,declined under his ownership,who thinks there is nothing wrong with owners taking money out of clubs.If you are happy having such a person owning this club,fine,but some people are not prepared to sit idly by watching the yanks ruin this club like they have done to Liverpool and Villa.If that makes one an AAA in your book thats your prerogative,but in my book the BSM are true Arsenal fans prepared to stand up for what they believe.And btw i don’t want Usmanov either.

47. Linz, i do not see an issue with Stan taking money out of the club, because he is an investor, and never suggested to anyone he is an Arsenal supporter, nor a football fan.
    I have an issue with the muppets that allowed him in the front door of the place.
    Let us get something straight as well….Ibramovich has “given” Chelsea nothing.
    Every cent he has put into the club has been a loan, and some day, he will be calling it up.
    Even the alleged sugar daddies are not what they appear.

48. @Linz

    I’m glad you do not want Usmanov as a future club owner, to go down that route looks like a bad mistake, remember Usmanov wanted a dividend and Stan refused. So far, I don’t think Stan has taken money out of the club – if I am wrong in this please advise.

    If you read my previous post carefully, you will see I did not accuse Usmanov of funding the BSM, however, that is an interesting concept.

    The trouble with self appointed pressure movements like the BSM is that there is always a public agenda and then an additional agenda – which is the real one, most of the support will only know the public agenda – if the real agenda was revealed many would think twice before being involved. I have seen this sort of thing more than once.

    I agree about the away strip, I much prefer the yellow away strip to the purple/blue – although I have no information for or against the purple/blue being stipulated by far Eastern marketing; I would have thought that the yellow strip would provide a better TV contrast.

49. everyone loves to talk about crisis. although there is none at arsenal, many would not shy from creating one. the media have been banging the drum of the so called triple A. from ticket prices, FFP, transfers, refrees, red card, 4th position; its all arsenal. arsenal here, arsenal there. but none are positively put. I wonder how much or how many times are arsenal mentioned. what is the total weightage in creating news relating to arsenal?
    I don’t understand why would a fan wish arsenal would finish less than fourth. the misconception here is that some seismic change will be witnessed if arsenal fail to achieve CL spot. how? its not made absolutely clear by these ill-wishers. I don’t think AW will leave before 2014, when his contract ends. the ineptness at the board-level suggests there aren’t anyone in their mind to replace AW should he choose to leave.

50. americangooner, Walter,
    No fan would wish ill or a sub-four finish. Isn’t it obvious? Is it one fan, one reporter, a bloc of fans, a petition in circulation? How extensive is this wish, really? Are we honestly busy looking for and naming who exactly wishes this calamity on Arsenal and outing them; or are we creating here a boogey man to bash like a pinata as a way to not scrutinize what we could do to help ourselves on the pitch, including ways of widely exposing the likes of what The Dean does in his 17-1 record of malfeasance against AFC. Oh no, that would be close to internet activism, wouldn’t it? No, can’t have that. Instead, let’s just expend our energies on flogging the one or handful of miscreants who, purportedly and publicly declare they wish a fourth place finish. So safe and boring. Demanding and advocating better for your side is something different altogether. And we could start with how – if research bears it out – The Dean has officiated at multiple leg-breakings of Bacary Sagna, including another near miss at the studs of the merciless Van Persie (as Mandy Dodd provided in another amazing posting). The Dean will be there, on bended knee, flanking Don Fungus (with the Webbmaster on the other side) as the great one steps up to the throne to accept his deferred anointment as Lord Football at the business end of this woeful season. And, under Rednose’s robes, will be Divemaster Rooney and Robin Van Ruthless, giving service to their master. Pornographic? ya think? Well, the reality is far more hard-core than anything my words could possibly suggest.

51. Good morning Gooners!
    While you were asleep, Mandy Dodd unearthed this link for me, and I offer it up for your use in the most constructive of ways. It seems that RVP has fully ingested the spirit of the Old Toilet crime scene (as our mugging there amidst the ruins of our undefeated streak continue to infest that bog). Have you seen and considered that The Dean did not flag RVP’s attack on Sagna:
    http://footyroom.com/forum/off-topic/rvp-foul-on-sagna-39136
    And, as research may confirm, that The Dean may well have officiated the Sagna leg-breaking at WHL. And The Dean is the very officious cunt who would not report his Don for the sulfurous outburst he visited on the officials just a week or so ago. A laundry list of The Dean’s pro-Manure defecations could be paired with his near-lawbreaking malfeasance toward AFC (over the 17-1 record-setting disservice) and either exposed widely or offered straight out to the PGMOL as a resume to award him (rather than Howard Webb) the throne when Micky R – the architect of our mugging at the OT crime scene – finally steps down to enjoy his largesse.

52. U can call me AAA, I don’t mind. I’l just call u an AKB. I don’t care much about arsenal results anymore. Infact, it amuses when I see koscielny trying to rape dzeko in broad daylight. I’l keep arsenal somewher in ma heart cos I believe there’s hope for my arsenal wen wenger leaves. In the meantime discussing the clubs issues seems to be a good substitute for d emotional investment that goes wit being a supporter.
    Btw, I agree wit the commenter that says you’d be hard pressed to find anyone working as hard to perpetuate this negativity as wenger and the club’s management. If spreading negativity about the club were their job, they couldn’t do it any better.

53. Yea bob, so wat are u gonna do?

54. uk,
    wrong question. it’s what we are going to do, because one person can’t, as you well know (united k). too bad your response is so negative. were you offended by having the questions raised? why would that be, uk?

55. uk,
    do you ever use or respond to specific arguments, or do you just like to have an opinion that you can spit out like a drive-by? anyone can say an opinion. this blog, as you know, has a large number of people who actually give and respond to reasons, and some of the reasons go beyond one thought, as if, from a script. i mean beyond the two postings just above, that wouldn’t be you, would it?

56. They could work harder to get a brain ,or two !

    http://www.funpic.hu/en/categories/gary-larson/6545_picture?mode=category&categoryId=12&position=293

57. Yes, admit its been getting worse lately. What these Wenger-bashers dont realise is as long as we dont have an oligarch or sheikh(which I’m absolutely against), then we cant compete with these rich clubs. The united way is also not an ideal model to follow, what with those huge debts creating all this uncertainty. Also I firmly believe united would be struggling to stay in touch with City & Chelsea if they didn’t get gifted at least 12 points every season by weak/compromised refs. We are punching above our weight that we are always in the mix with the top 3 at the end of the season, without the help of bent refs.

    One just needs to look at Liverpool; how many times have they chopped and changed managers, or purchased players worth over 30 million quid, but where are they? When were they in the top 4 last? Or the champions league? It seems they are struggling to stay in the top 10 even. So there’s evidence right there that buying expensive players or changing managers every season is not going to make us suddenly compete with the likes of City or Chelsea. Wenger is doing extremely well with the resources he has, given the way his players have been raided year after year by these rich clubs its nothing short of a miracle we are still able to compete. Just look at how Ajax ‘folded’ when their players were raided in the 90s, they haven’t been a major force since. Likewise, if a club such as spuds or liverpool were to lose their players at the rate we have been they would be in serious trouble right now. Those wishing Wenger out will only realise – assuming they’re smart enough to ever realise it – how valuable he was after he’s gone.

58. @Al, I don’t think Wenger’s punching above his weight at all. When you consider our resources we’re exactly where we should be. Fourth is where we should finish. We got lucky last year and stole third as WBA had a keeper who supported Arsenal,we had RVP, Spuds blew it and Chelsea directed their attention to the CL. There’s no miracle unless you believe the alignment of all four happening in one season justifies the claim of some higher force interfering in Earthly affairs.

    The disappointing thing is that if we’d bought a few 25 million pound players over the last few seasons we might have won something. Conjecture of course, we’ll never know but throwing Pool’s poor purchases into the mix as a reason against being a little more courageous financially in the market is disingenuous. After all they don’t have Wenger as a manager whom I’m reminded constantly is a genius. Also Pool have Suarez, second only to RVP as a striker, and I don’t see why we couldn’t have got him.

    The club is not on poverty row and Wenger has at least 35 million to spend, some say a lot more, so why we’re dithering in this transfer window when it was quite obvious we needed at least two quality players to have a chance of winning the CL is unfathomable. Targets should have been established months ago so the hesitation suggests that it’s not an imperative to improve the squad. I think we’ll buy someone but why we haven’t already done so beggars belief.

    Also Manu achieve what they achieve because they do have a genius of a manager. I don’t think refs gift them 12 points a season; plucking a random number from the air is fun but there’s no proof. Also I’m sure some refs may even be biased against Manu, believe it or not. The fact is that success breeds success, Manu players have a winning mentality fostered by the strange concept that winning trophies is important. I’m sure if we won something our players would have a new self-belief, at the moment they’re merely tagged as chokers.

59. It’s amazing to suggest that MU don’t gain points from referees. It has been demonstrated beyond doubt over a number of years by independent observers. This is not from a pro-Arsenal perspective and it is well understood by fans of most clubs.

    Too many examples to recall, but their games at Chelsea this season (Clattenburg) and last season (Webb, 2 penalties) stand out.

    Never mind the various games against us (Dean giving Rooney a penalty and denying Arshavin one, and Riley ensuring the end of our unbeaten run)

    12 points per season seems a conservative figure

60. Also MU’s manager is more effective as a bully than as a genius

61. rupert

    Spending money on players does not necessarily reflect ambition. Let’s say Arsenal have 50mil. Leave alone the fact that 50mil doesn’t go very far these days (accounting for salaries and the like), but let’s just say I agree we have money to spend. Partly, this money is there also because we’ve saved it up over a few years.

    However, Arsenal have spent a lot of money in the last 2 summers actually. 40m this summer, and supposedly 55million last summer. Yes, not as much as we’ve recovered from player sales, but then we’ve also increased the wage bill. SO it’s a myth that Arsenal don’t spend. Our problem is retention. Which we can’t do much about till our revenues go up, allowing us to pay more to players.

    Now, back to the money we still have. Sure, there are players who can improve our squad. Maybe we could have bought Cabaye, or someone of that sort. But the judgment that has to be made is that whether these players would push us a level higher. Would someone like that have pushed us to title winners? Or would we spend money on transfer and wages, and then still ended up 3rd or 4th, and could just have felt better about ourselves since we had new signings even if not new trophies.

    We have resources, but considering that we have a negative transfer outlay over the years, and that our wage bill reflects 16 years of CL football, plus the lack of continuity in our squad as it is decimated by the oil clubs (they dont do that Spurs cos our players are better.) Wenger has overachieved. I don’t think any manager could have kept us in the top 4 for so long.

    And no. We did not get LUCKY with getting 3rd. We’ve hardly ever had any luck with referee decisions. If anyone got lucky last season, it was Chelsea. But that won’t sit well with you having to give credit to Arsenal for anything that we achieved in such a hard fought manner. No, we can;t have that.

62. I think with better referees Arsenal would have some 10 points more per season in the last couple of years.

    Certainly in the 2007/2008 season the refs robbed us from the title.
    Dean at Birmingham
    dunnowho in a home game at the Emirates that we couldn’t win because the ref ruling out a valid goal for offside when a defender played a backpass that came to Adebayor but was given an offside.

    That alone is 4 points. The points we missed that season to win the league.

    And there were more of such strange decisions going Arsenal in the follow up of the Birmingham daylight robbery

63. Walter,

    And who knows what the auxiliary effects of winning the title then would have been? Flamini and Hleb might not have left, Cesc, Nasri, even RVP, wouldn’t have had the excuse of Arsenal not winning trophies in their time here as an excuse to up and leave. Other teams would have been forced to have more respect for Arsenal (and not just feel it alright to kick us to bits) and for the way we run our business.

    It’s not just that title they robbed us of. Not winning that title provided them the justification to villify all things Arsenal.

64. @John, just because someone is a bully doesn’t preclude him from being a genius. There have been plenty of games where Manu have had decisions go against them but have you bothered to check them.

    @Shard, all clubs have a certain amount of luck every season. How can you measure whom has the most? Not really possible. We’ve debated this ref stuff before and I have to agree to disagree. A good team will nullify poor ref decisions anyway and I don’t believe there’s any bias against us.

    Sure we’ve increased the wage bill and we all know how crazy that is, rewarding average players far too much money due to some socialist ethic that Wenger supports meaning we have some dross on the books we can’t shift.

    The squad has only been decimated by the oil clubs for the last three seasons. The fact is that players of the ilk of Cabaye have not been bought so we’ll never know whether they would have made a difference. Just because some clubs have more money to spend doesn’t mean we have to curtail our spending.

    Your last sentence is a bitter little comment. Arsenal have achieved no more, no less, than a club in their position should do. In fact why we’ve had to virtually give up on cups in recent years shows how we’ve under performed. Why we have to sacrifice one in order to finish fourth is a travesty.

    @Walter, if it only were that simple but you know it isn’t. Unless a ref makes a decision that is virtually the final kick of the game nobody can foretell what impact a decision has on a game. I’ve already made this point already and don’t want to rehash it.

65. Plus it wasn’t just the league that year. Liverpool only beat us in the CL cos of the referee’s decisions going against us. We were a team on fire that season. A young team, set to dominate over the next decade (there was no ManCity then). The way we were stopped from winning the title (which was subsequently handed over to ManU, Chelsea deserved it more) and everything that’s followed, from the media coverage, to referees, to the players’ legs being broken, to players leaving and criticisng the club, all infuriates me when I think about it. What’s worse is that some of our own ‘fans’ are only too eager to pull down everything the club has achieved despite all the obstacles put in its path.

66. rupert

    That’s just it.It can;t be quantified. Doesn;t mean its not a factor. Bullshit to any good team can always overcome a ref’s impact. Dowd can manufacture two penalties out of nowhere, give us a red card while allowing the opposition to kick us all over the place, but no. Arsenal weren;t good enough. It is bitter. I am bitter. and that’s the reason I havent been on this forum for so long. I am sick of people who call themselves Arsenal fans not acknowledging the role played by factors outside the clubs control in what has transpired. The club can do better. Of course. But that is a;ways true of everyone and everything. But the club have done massively better than any other club which has ever been in the same position as us, building and paying for their own stadium. All the increased wealth that some folks are so unhappy about us not spending has come from our move, and from Wenger’s ability to spot talent. It’s not his fault that some of them just want to up sticks and quit on the team. Vieira told us that Nasri was in negotiation with City 6 months before he engineered a move. Alex Ferguson let slip that he was in touch with RVP for 4 months.

    ANyway. I’m sick of going aroun in circles.

67. @Rupert

    Please give examples of decisions against MU which have cost them points. I can’t think of any.

    Maybe being able to get away with a public slagging of Dean on the pitch is a sign of genius.

68. @Rupert
    That united get points they don’t deserve every season is public knowledge and universally accepted at other clubs bar united themselves. Ask any fan who doesn’t support united, so this is nothing to do with us. So you say they get robbed too, any examples please. I think you will struggle to come up with more than two, if you can even get that far. Forget Arsenal, chelsea, as already pointed out have had something like 9 points stolen from them from this and last seasons games. I remember Liverpool conceding a penalty (and a red card?) in the first minute, when Webb was ref. In fact Webb I would want to know the stats of Liverpool v united games when Webb was ref. Even lesser clubs get robbed against united, you may want to include spuds in that list too.
    But I would want to conclude by saying whatever ‘good luck’ united gets with refs appears to mirror inversely the ‘bad luck’ Arsenal has with refs, its the exact opposite. If united is not being gifted points by refs, it’ll be other managers doing that(Wolves fielded a b-side one time, any side managed by allardyce knows they only contest 36 games per season, etc). We start the season with a deficit, while united will have more than 10points even before the community shield. I subscribe to the thought that had we not been robbed of the title in 08 the story would be very different today. Probably the same goes for our appearance in the champions league final in 06, but let’s just stick to the robbery in the league.

    As an afterthought Rupert, I know its healthy to have & respect different opinions in an argument, but why do you always appear to defend any other team apart from Arsenal? It could be just coincidence that all your posts I have read appear that way, and please forgive me if I’m wrong.

69. Everyone,
    I wouldn’t take any notice of what Red Rupert the Cook writes as he has ulterior motives. Reading what he says is pretty much like absorbing what the general media say/believe. I just skip his posts now and read the rest.
    Shard @ 11:58
    I totally agree with you, Arsenal did have a side setup to dominate for the next 10 years or more and if we hadn’t been stopped by these ridiculous decisions from refs, aided and abetted by the media and even now our own fans, Wenger would have gone on to totally overshadow Fergie’s achievements and I don’t think most people in this country could abide all that coming from a Frenchman/Arsenal.

70. Agree with your view Micko, not only was it NOT a coincidence that it was against Ferguson’s side that the unbeaten run was controversially ‘ended’, but a worrying pattern of teams kicking us off the park while the refs watched also started that day. And when it seemed Wenger had assembled a side that was about to embark on a decent run again a few years later we started ‘attracting’ all kinds of bad luck/stuff; broken legs, dubious penalties & red cards, negative & unsettling articles in the media, etc. That old fool fungusbum has a lot to do with this, because he didn’t want his achievements to be dwarfed by those of a Frenchman who had spent less than a 3rd of what he spent himself.

    In fungusbum’s mind his biggest rival is Wenger, regardless of how much money flows into the coffers at either city or chelsea or who’s managing them. That also explains why he sought to be all pally with Mourinho, despite that Jose’s ambitions were to dethrone fungusbum. If Wenger hadn’t been around fungusbum & mourinho would’ve been instant enemies, given their similarities in manipulating the media & their dishonesty. But they came together because of a common enemy; Wenger. Because united were struggling around 2004, fungusbum saw an ally in mourinho’s arrival with the billions at his disposal. The theme was, and still is, stop Wenger, which is why there’s a concerted effort to get Wenger sacked. Why fungusbum should be allowed so much power to the point of ruining football for everyone in England apart from his team is beyond me.

71. Al, January 18, 2013 at 7:49 pm. Spot on Al. In my view SAF is the master on and off the pitch, catching up with and breaking up that strong 2003-05 squad was critical to his legacy and to his competitive nature – he saw the threat and worked out what to do about it. You can just imagine how SAF got his team up for the Oct 2004 game. (ManC coming to the fore with their targeting of players helped post Summer 2009 – although Utd lost Tevez they’ve managed to compete – wonder where Rooney might have gone in Aug 2010 .. oh yeah. SAF dealt with that one well – btw I wondered whether AW had steered a want away RVP to MU rather than ManC).

    Anyhow, back to 2004ish, there was that story, no idea whether there was any truth in it – could easily be misinformation, that Vieira had signed a pre-contract agt with MU (I repeat I don’t know if that was true). AFC have been rubbish at defending their image in the Media post departure of Dein (early 2007). AW needed to take a break from the mic … Gazidis not turning up until late ’08 (and taking time to get up to speed / build credibility) did n’t help. To illustrate … Dein over the last day or so has just come out defending AW … how good that read. I have n’t checked arsenal.com today, but guess there will be a “meet the Kentucky gooners” or something (and no offense there you Bluegrass boys). Like others have said in many ways the media are stirring it and having stirred it are loving Arsenal fans having a go at it. I listened to Talksport tonite and that, I thought, was the angle – the disharmony between Arsenal fans. Back to SAF .. there’s an interesting book called “the 48 laws of power” have a gander … I’d suggest he has n’t be allowed too much power: rather his will and relentless effort have enabled him to take it and keep it.

72. @Shard

    That was an interesting comment about Red Nose being in contact with RVP for 4 months – I assume 4 months before the transfer. I didn’t know that, unlike the Nasri situation which was more widely known.

    One thing I did notice with RVP was a change of attitude. At the end of last season RVP received 3 awards, at each he was interviewed and asked about his contract – on the last occasion his attitude was totally different, I felt at time he had decided to go – this was probably mid-late May.

    @Al

    It is no coincidence that the Rupert is totally negative towards the club – it is hard to recall any post from him that is not negative, sarcastic, divisive and depressive – the question is – why does he bother – would he not be happier with the Spuds – or is there another purpose to his rants?

73. @Shard, I don’t mind you thinking what you think and you’ve always made a fair fist of debating sensibly with me so I try to respect your views but I can’t agree with the league being taken from us that year we crumbled or the fact that there was a young team about to dominate for a decade. This is pure supposition and do you think while we were dominating for a decade that our rivals would just sit by and let us win everything. Manu have always spent big when they thought it essential and Chelsea have huge resources so even City had not shown up with all their riches I think it a bit rich to think we’d be all alone walking off with trophies every year.

    As for ref decisions it seems easy to blame all our ills on refs. Smacks of sour grapes to me. Believe it or not Manu have had decisions go against them but I don’t log every incident. Do any of you if it doesn’t concern Arsenal?

74. @Micko, I don’t have any ulterior motive. This is a blog where views that dare to challenge the unthinking few are quickly labelled as some sort of propaganda. I feel sorry for you and your limited outlook.

75. @Rupert

    “Arsenal have achieved no more, no less, than a club in their position should do”

    English Premier league Clubs Net Spend since the arrival of Roman Abramovich in 2003 until the start of the 2012/13 season.
    (Not including January 2013)

    1- Chelsea + £524,500,000
    2- Manchester City + £434,820,000
    3- Liverpool + £168,800,000
    4- Manchester United + £123,400,000
    5- Aston Villa + £106,475,000
    6- Tottenham + £100,850,000
    7- Stoke City + £73,075,000
    8- Sunderland + £71,830,000
    9- QPR + £58,700,000
    10- West Ham + £35,655,000
    11- WBA + £29,495,000
    12- Fulham + £17,085,000
    15- Norwich City + £10,940,000
    14- Everton + £5,634,500
    15- Swansea + £2,145,000
    16- Newcastle + £1,900,000
    17- Wigan – £135,000
    18- Southampton – £7,385,000
    19- Reading – £21,020,000
    20- ARSENAL – £23,570,000

76. Yes Tasos I know. I’ve seen the figures before and it frustrates me to think that we’ve been so obsessed with balancing the books that we’ve forgotten about our on field performance.

    Wenger has bought some good players to offset those figures. Up to I’d say 2010 we’ve had a capable squad but in the last few years the squad has not been up to scratch. We’ve bought some duds in the last few years and one man rescued us from the Europa League last year and we know who that was.

    Another manager would probably have increased our net spend and we may well have won something but sadly we’ll never know.

    Also you have to consider that some of the teams that spent more did so out of desperation. We were quite happy, it seems, to consolidate fourth and go no further.

77. Yes Tasos I know. I’ve seen the figures before and it frustrates me to think that we’ve been so obsessed with balancing the books that we’ve forgotten about our on field performance.

    Wenger has bought some good players to offset those figures. Up to I’d say 2010 we’ve had a capable squad but in the last few years the squad has not been up to scratch. We’ve bought some duds in the last few years and one man rescued us from the Europa League last year and we know who that was.

    Another manager would probably have increased our net spend and we may well have won something but sadly we’ll never know.

    Also you have to consider that some of the teams that spent more did so out of desperation. We were quite happy, it seems, to consolidate fourth and go no further.

78. Hopefully, Ivan is correct in his words – he clearly indicates that the days of fiscal over-caution are coming to an end. The amount we have in the bank, with clever investment, the interest alone should go some way to paying for the stadium mortgage, our bottom line is about to increase significantly and the high earners that do not play will soon be off our books.

79. Obsessed with balancing the books or financially restricted due to our plush 60,000 seater stadium repayments?

    Unlike Man City our stadium wasn’t given to us.

    The Transfer League table I displayed contradicts your accusation. I notice you failed to disappoint in your disregard for such proof and merely offer “probabilities” in return.

80. @Tasos

    The rupert was indeed a bit short of ideas this time – he had to offer the same negativity twice – I’m sure Oscar Wilde would have had a funny comeback.

    Perhaps we should make some allowance for the rupert, maybe he came out of hibernation too soon.

81. rupert

    You seem to have an aversion to suppositions except when you make them. I seem to remember you arguing in the aftermath of the ManCity game that the red card made little difference because we wouldn’t have scored anyway. That is a supposition with less basis than most I’ve made. I never said we would dominate for a decade. Merely that we were set up to dominate, ie, were good enough to. Doing it is a whole different issue. I don’t care that we didn’t win. I care that we were, and since then, have routinely been, robbed off a chance to do so.

    Also, I have stated many many many many times, that I don’t pass off referee nonsense as the reason for ALL our ills (such as they are) You on the other hand, discount that as a factor entirely, in the belief that any team worth its salt would be good enough to overcome any ‘bad luck’. Nor do you admit to any sort of bias in press reporting. Both those factors are acknowledged by other bloggers who have nothing to do with this site, and indeed even view it as a conspiracy site. So don’t tell me about being blind to certain aspects when you are guilty of the same. The only difference being that you only use the aspects or suppositions which show Arsenal in a poor light.

82. bjtgooner

    It was in one press conference recently where Ferguson said something about how they’d worked on the deal for over 4 months because they really wanted Van Persie. I don’t remember whether he straight off said that they were in touch with RVP (I wouldnt put it past him being that brazen), but that was the implication nonetheless, and that is how I recall it.

83. Rupert,
    Going back to the Transfer league provided by Tasos. Who would you have spent the £2.6 Million per season on?

84. @Shard, I doubt I made any such claim about us not scoring with ten man against City. I watched the game and it’s true we never looked like scoring but I always allow for the unexpected. The wife will testify to this as I refused to leave the pub at half time telling her that things could change in the second half.

    I don’t discount ref bias completely but I believe it has a very small impact. Very occasionally a good team will be defeated by ref bias, I don’t really think this applies to Arsenal very often. And again media bias? Is that why we don’t win anything? Since when has the media orchestrated results. I’ve read several reports on here about tv commentators showing a bias against Arsenal and myself and others have logically destroyed the rather hysterical claims by the writers of said pieces.

    As for the papers, who is so naive as to believe everything they write? Most people in this day and age are media savvy. I’m sure you can see through much of the nonsense that is printed, for and against Arsenal. I sometimes think people on here want an army of sycophants to report on Wenger who will bow down at his every utterance, no matter how ludicrous it maybe.

    How have we been robbed of a chance to dominate? Who’s robbed us but clubs that spend more money than us? The robbing has been done a little closer to home.

    @Tasos, as I’ve said the majority of those teams who spent more had relegation battles to deal with or they had to consolidate themselves in the EPL or they were just more ambitious. We had a good foundation of players, in other words we had a head start on those teams outside of the top three, yes thanks to Wenger, up to around 2010 and really didn’t need to spend a lot to improve, perhaps the purchase of a couple of world class players around 2010 with an outlay of roughly 50 million would have made us more competitive but we let that opportunity slip. And that would have put roughly 25 million in the red. I think we could manage that. So I answered your question.

    @Stuart, not sure why you mention that figure but I guess good players can be found for roughly that price, Michu for example.

85. rupert

    The linesman telling City players to go applaud their fans because they paid 62 pounds. exhibits that the media line does has an effect on officials.. How often have they proclaimed ‘Arsenal don’t like it up ’em’? Do you think it’s possible that that line of thinking percolates down to the referees and leads to them allowing more and more physicality against Arsenal? Don’t discount the media’s effect in anything. Whether you believe them or not, they have a way of distorting and hijacking the terms of any debate.

86. @Shard, but do Arsenal really not “like it up ’em” as you put it or is that just a media-fueled fallacy? As for this percolating down to refs perhaps it affects them, perhaps it even makes them more harsh on teams who are more physical against Arsenal. Or not.

    I don’t discount the media’s effect on people’s thinking because plenty of people can’t think for themselves.

87. Nobody likes it up ’em. (as long as we’re talking about football at least :)) You kick any team and they’ll suffer. And that isn’t how I put it. That is how the media put it. As for your supposition, perhaps, but there is virtually zero evidence to support that supposition, and there is a LOT of evidence to support the one I made. A simple example would be the fact that no other team has had as many leg breaks in as short a time as we’ve had. Mind, I don’t think it’s JUST the media that is the reason for it, but it is certainly an abettor and enabler in it.

88. @Rupert (still the depressive AAA sewer rat)

    Ref your comment about the City match: –

    “I watched the game and it’s true we never looked like scoring but I always allow for the unexpected.”

    – that’s why Lescott had to clear off the line?

    Either you were drinking too much in the pub and couldn’t see the screen, or you are making your story up. I suspect the latter as you seem to regurgitate the nonsense from the AAA sites. Your continued efforts to bring sarcastic negativity to this site are boring.

89. Rupert,
    Your denial of refshite making a difference against us and favoritism for Manure is multi-syllabic horseshit. Your willful blindness (or is it silence) to what Walter and Dogface’s contribution over the last two seasons on UA, and continuing on the sister Ref Decisions website is stunning. The compilation of evidence that has steadily gone on there re. Arsenal. That everyone in football outside of you and the Nuremburg rally at Old Toilet knows that refs have favored Manure. The ref assignments and records of Fungus’s flunkies to their games. The Dean’s record against AFC. And the clearcut, massive Arsene Out Campaign that was well-documented here two summers ago when your voice (unless under another alias) was not in evidence, when combined with the Refshite nearly helped to relegate this franchise.

    Now the other foot. I refuse to spend time re-compiling and summarizing for you the massive amount of [still] gathering detail over two years of Walter/Dogface/RefReviewers efforts on UA that I referred to above. To be ethical, go look for yourself, on your time, and sift what’s been done here, instead of nimbly sneering it away. That said, my own position here has been – and it applies to you – that it is humanly possible to hold two thoughts in mind at the same time. In this case: (1) there is documented Refshite by Walter/Dogface/RefReviers that has cost points for AFC over the last 2-3 seasons whilst ManUre receiving the benefit of RefFavor, both out of proportion to most other teams – in short, that the Ref calls and non-calls do NOT even out (your tacit assumption, though unstated) over the course of a season; and (2) that AFC have made, imo, serious blunders in allowing/not forcing some of its well-known best players into staying on (RVP and Song), even when having a strong enough financial position to do so; and, in so doing, have not replaced like with like, and thereby have contributed to the lower pitch quality and inadequate rotational quality that together have cost us points. (I’ve gone over my second point, which at times has concurred with yours and others, ad nauseum and won’t rehash again for you, as you might well have read the postings over the last few months.) So, Refshite and club fiscal policy have combined to cost us points. That would be two simultaneous problems. I don’t have many in agreement with me here on point 2, but I stick to it and believe it has amounted to a form of asset-stripping by the current ownership/board/management regime. Whatever. But on point 1, you seem unable to grant the obvious and, when it comes up, switch the game to point 2 (mine, our, and/or your own laments) and say that it (namely, AFC policy, AW decisions) is the real reason. Again, in my view (what else) there are two intersecting sets of issues that have been at work. And whenever the Refshite is raised (and many old timers here have it as our backdrop and don’t feel nor ought to feel the need to cite it chapter and verse because you show up and act like it doesn’t), you say no, no, it’s our only own house that needs sorting out and any good team worth its salt could do so. Well, Mr. Tough Love, it’s not just our house that needs sorting; but it’s also the shitsty of the PGMOL/EPL (add your favorite initials) as well and the non-FFC regulated petroballing (point 3) that TOGETHER have COMBINED to obstruct our progress. So, when you consider keeping at least two points in play, you will have moved closer toward an actual analysis, instead of the (in the end) one-note argument that all that ails us is ultimately (if not always) of our own doing.

    To me, that’s why you are starting to sound like johnny one-note, or worser, chalk on a blackboard – strident. Believe me, I know what it is to sound strident – I do it too much. But it takes one to know one and you are strident. It would be better, were you to take the time you spend on so many postings (and I have agreed with a fair number of your criticisms) to put the pique and badinage aside for a while, read through Walter’s summaries and ref critiques, re-view the travesty at the Old Toilet crime scene of 2004, take to heart the UNCARDED leg-breaking against this side, and, by COMBINING said elements, actually rise to a higher level of analysis – yes, analysis – than variations on a tired one-dimensional theme that Arsenal is solely responsible for its own faulty performance. To me, it is co-responsible, and that is a huge difference.

    I can well appreciate that there will be readers here who will react to this critique of your contribution and cast a plague on both our houses. That’s fine. It’s impossible to argue with tribalism because it’s an evidence-free zone. But you do know the difference and do marshall evidence, but you do it while going – willfully or craftily or unknowingly – blind to some actual and documented anti-AFC/AW forces that have succeeded in costing us disproportionately on the pitch whilst rewarding Manure disproportionately on the pitch. And, in the interest of full disclosure, while hating Petro-Shitty, I hold my nose and wish them a repeat championship this year: because, then, the bully-in-chief will have been denied his ill-begotten gains, two seasons in a row, and fall short of seizing the Precious – the Rednose XX; and we, that is, AFC owner/board/management will not have been the Enabling ones to have (cruelest of ironies) GIFTED him (get it yet, FunGunner?) the golden foot (formerly the glass ankle) that will otherwise kick him into his Valhalla — to be anointed as Lord Football (whilst Micky R, The Dean and The Webmaster continue to do his bidding under the purple robes).

90. With the refs, I am not sure if they are in some way supportive of SAF, or just terrified as to what getting on the wrong side of him can do for their respective careers. Graham Poll, Jeff Winter and others have documented how upsetting SAF would mean no games involving Utd for a couple of years, by definition, some of these would be big games. This is far too close to the Italian situation for comfort. Mike Riley is far too tainted to take this on, if indeed that is his remit. How can he bring to an account a ref showing favours to Utd with any credibility, especially with what he allowed to happen at OT to the Invincibles, and Reyes in particular. Riley should be answerable to someone truely independant. As for the media, wait and see how they react when inevitably one day, the season comes when there is no St Totts day. They are building up to a collective media orgasm I can assure you, they have only been quiet so far this season on this front as they were made to look rather silly last season. But they are desperate to declare a power shift, and when that happens, the revisionists in the media will write all Wenger has done out of the fabric of the Universe, despite, as one blogger has recently said, Ray Parlour has more titles than the Spuds, and we have actually clinched more titles at WHL than they have! Another thing about the media, how come they give Liverpool a much easier ride than us? Bigger brand, spent much more money, similar trophy drought, not consistantly in the top 4. Not that we should really care as many in the sports media are below contempt and working to clear agendas anyway, (eg compare and contrast John Cross in the Daily Mirror to the same jourlalist away from the shackles of editorial policy) but just to highlight the many forces Arsenal, and especially their manager are up against.