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The nine players Arsenal have looked at, and chances of the transfers happening.

Ever since I once cracked a joke about Mr Wenger signing Peter Crouch and then finding the story written up in the next day’s newspaper gossip columns I’ve been extra careful in what I say about transfers.

But even so, throwing caution to the wind for once, here’s a list of the players that Arsenal are, might be, or won’t be signing with a note about  the likelihood in each case.

However one thing to remember is the complexity of all these trasnfer issues.  For a player to come to Arsenal the following all have to be in place:

1.  Arsenal want the player

2.  The player wants Arsenal and believes he will make a breakthrough into the first team.

3.  The club he currently plays for wants to sell him, or finds they can’t hold him because the player wants to leave.

4.  The price for the player is agreed.

5.  The buying club can agree terms with the player

6.  Someone can work out who the **** the player’s agent is.

7.  The agent’s personal demands are met

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8.  N0 other club jumps in at the last minute saying, “if Arsenal want him, he must be good, we’ll offer an extra million and a special deal for the player and his agent.”

9.  There are no passport problems.

10.  Arsenal continue their interest – remembering that Arsenal always have two or three players lined up to buy for each position, so that they can play one deal against the other if they think they are getting ripped off.

So bearing those ten points in mind, here we go…

1:  Yaya Sanogo.   Chance of signing: 99.5%

99.5% because basically the deal has been done and only something quite odd will now stop it.  Mr Wenger has agreed, Auxerre have agreed, the player has agreed – the four year deal is done.

He played in Ligue 2 last season, had 13 games and knocked in 10 goals.  He’s had to deal with a broken leg, but has come back to play for France under 21s, and he has been followed around the country by none other than our old pal Gilles Grimandi who knows a thing or two about persuading Frenchmen to come to the Ems.  Just as with Clichy all those years back, Mr Wenger went across in person to meet the player and put the family’s mind at rest over what Arsenal would do with the player.

2:  Gonzalo Higuaín.  Chance of signing, 99%

I’ve done my story, the player has agreed terms, and all that is holding us back is that Real Mad have no manager.  But Zidane seems to know all about it, and it is hard to see how Real Mad are going to back out of this one.  And even if they do, I can’t see how Higuaín is going to be happy to return  to the club.  Time to move on, and the Ems is the destination.

3:  Daniel Crowley.  Chance of signing: 99%

Some are saying this deal is already done – quite possibly it is and not for the first time I am behind the times.  He’s an England Under 17 international and called in some of the sillier newspaper columns, the  ‘Next Jack Wilshere’ (largely because they can’t think of anything else to say.)

He is with Villa, he is 15, and Villa don’t want to lose him.  But then, if you were a 15 year old midfielder where would you sooner play?  Villa or Ems.  Hmmm.

4:  Marouane Fellaini.  Chance of signing: 50%

The problem with the Everton midfielder is the price: £23 million via a release fee clause in the contract.  He’s a Belgium international and he has the ability to play as a striker as well as in midfield.

It might just happen, but something tells me to be cautious.
5:  Tin Jedvaj.   Chances of signing: 70%

£6m for another wonderkid?  Well, maybe.  He plays for Dinamo Zagreb and Roma have just failed in a bid to get him.  He’s 17, he’s Croatian and he plays in midfield, and is already being considered for the national team.  (But then Scotland beat Croatia so maybe that is not saying much).

6:   Victor Wanyama plays for Celtic and the stories about him to Arsenal have been going round and round for months.  Celtic however are said to have agreed a £10 million fee with Southampton.  Liverpool and Inter Milan are said to be interested.   But most damning of all, the Daily Mail is following the story, which suggests it probably won’t happen.  Chances of signing  43%

7:  Ashley Williams.  Chances of signing 40%

Williams, a centre half from Swansea has been about to arrive for three months, and Swansea have been saying they have not talked to Arsenal for just as long.  What is against him is that he is 29, which makes the price look high, and the fact is that although Mr Wenger is no longer tagged with the story that he kicks players out at 30 (one of the Sun’s inventions) he still looks a trifle on the old side.  Arsenal mould players, by and large, so that could be a no.

8:  Julio Cesar.  Chances of signing: 20%

Everything depends on whether you think Arsenal need another keeper and one from QPR at that.  We have three who have played in the first team, and a young Argentine man who is said to be the biggest goal keeping sensation on the planet.

Personally I don’t think we will replace any of the keepers.

9:  Wayne Rooney.  Chances of signing: 5%

I don’t see this.  I don’t think he is that good any more.  I think other teams will be far more interested.  I think Higuaín is much better, and I can’t see how Wayne fits into our system.  Besides he still has another six episodes of his autobiog to finish yet.

And one more sale

Eintracht Frankfurt are thinking about taking Nicklas Bendtner with serious talks going on.

Who have I missed?

23 June Anniversaries

The books…

The sites from the same team…

112 comments to The nine players Arsenal have looked at, and chances of the transfers happening.

  • Ong Bing

    I can’t see Rooney comes to Arsenal, his wages too high for us.

    Our no 1 is better than Julio Cesar, forget it.

  • adam t

    The one player I would like to see is Micah Richards as a back CB and RB. He loves the club and is the old sort of player Wenger used to buy

  • adam t

    Should of read back-up player opps

  • americangooner

    Higuain and a Creative midfielder would do wonders for Arsenal.

  • Paul

    You forgot to include the rumours about Fabregas returning

  • Zé Günner

    Some good notes…but once again, Tony, your arrogance rears it’s head…were you quoted by that paper with regards to the Crouch story??

    And where did the arbitrary numbers come from? Top of your head? I mean, I understand the 99.5% and 99% (and why they’re differentiated) but 43%?! Seems…well…a bit too random as to have any meaning…!

  • Mandy Dodd

    Really hope higuain happens for many reasons guess alternatives such as villa and jovetic will be pretty pissed of with our pursuit of him rather than them as first option. But until it is official there is always the fear another club could stop in cannot see us getting into a bidding war. Still think there could be a below the radar German or spaniard to surprise us all. Hope ches stays as number one but maybe a tad more coaching in certain areas? Cannot see Fellaini or Rooney coming not sure we really need any more defenders as long as mr bould given the influence some say he had close season. Our mf could get quite crowded assuming jack is back.

  • Zé Günner

    Mandy – agreed, there have been a few comments about the quality of GK coaching at Arsenal…not that I’d completely take it at face value…also looks like Mannone to Sunderland is happening. Think César to Arsenal is more like 69% done. 😉

    Higuáin / Fellaini are dream signings for me…don’t see Rooney coming or us going for him. Red herring.

  • LRV

    What’s with you and his arrogance theory, Zé Günner? You don’t have to read what Tony writes you know! So get off your high horse and spare the rest of us your stale theory.

  • JohnW

    Ze Gunner,
    You should let a man indulge himself. Besides, he’s not saying he’s God to know everything about the transfers. For me I don’t see what Wanyama adds to our midfield, Rooney may be good but not that special, his goal-scoring record is not extra-ordinary, and will be so arrogant, Julio is a good goal keeper, but I don’t thinki he will sit on the bench in a World Cup year, if he starts Czczcz will want to leave because of the same reason. Better to stay with our own .

  • The font

    Ze gunner the only arrogance I can see is is your response to a perfectly good and entertaining blog To pick someone up in the manor that you do is rude and unnecessary

  • Michael

    Arsenal have also looked at Grenier at Lyons, this new Spanish kid Illaramendi (I think that’s how you spell it) who plays for Real Sociedad, and Capoue the DM we apparently wanted in January. The Spanish kid and Capoue would cost less than Fellaini.
    I wouldn’t mind it if Wenger took a late run at Thiago Alcantara, the Barcelona kid that ManU want, if just to drive up the price. Another one to consider is Ajax’s Christian Eriksen, who could add some creativity to our attack.

  • Dec

    One of the unintended consequences of the transfer window system is the arrival in recent years of the Summer ‘sport’ of transfer speculation.
    Creation and propagation of rumours and fantasy stories by everybody from media to agents/players to clubs and probably mostly, bored fans.
    In the absence of real football it’s the closest we can get to club activity during the warm rain season.
    Certainly beats cricket or watching who can score the most against Tahiti.
    Perhaps we need a name for it?
    Just to throw in a new wish/hope for cover all down the right side, couldn’t do better than Seamus Coleman of Everton. Quick, clever, skilful and young, Arsene’s dream player one would think. Especially with Mons. Sagna looking to Paris for a last payday.

  • bc

    Well, if you are including Daniel Crowley then you need to include:
    Ryan Huddart
    Gedian Zelalem
    Ainsley Maitland-Niles
    Tafari Moore
    Renny Smith
    Stefan O’Connor
    Elliot Wright
    Julio Pleguezuelo
    Jamaal Raage
    Ok the first 7 have already played for Arsenal, but all have now signed scholarship terms with us. The latter 2 are joining from Barcelona and IF Brommapojkar.

    For me the biggest 2 signings we could make is rooney and fellaini. not that I don’t rate higuain, but the signing of rooney and fellaini would be such a statement. similarly the re-signing of cesc would be awesome. If we are to sign a keeper I would prefer it to be someone better than szczesney, which I don’t think cesar is. In fact there are not many that are, neuer, casillas, begovic, cech, handanovic, and may be vorm, hart & lloris. I am sure that buffon, cesar, reina, mignolet, valdes, krul, stekelenberg, al-habsi, schwarzer, given and howard are not better than wojech. However, should we be looking to improve upon fabianski and mannone then anyone of the keepers mentioned are better than mannone, and most likely fabianski too, signing anyone or two of them would would improve our squad.

  • Zé Günner

    That’d be “manner” I take it? Not that I and my grocers apostrophe can talk…

    The “arrogance” comes from the assumption that this website has influence on the press, PGMO or anyone bar the zealots that tend to congregate here and that because you refuse to critique our playing staff and management that you’re therefore “better” than Arsenal fans who do. Granted – there are those zealots on the other side of the coin…we know who they are, too, with their nefarious shouts of “AKB”…however…pretending that your cries of “AAA” are any different or somehow more correct than those of whom you decry. Even those who try to engage constructively are dismissed as AAA purely because they refuse to kowtow to the Scientonyists and prostrate themselves at the altar of your Lord Wenger. You treat the opinions of opposition fans who disagree with with greater respect than paying fans of the club you profess to love. That, too, can be construed as arrogance.

    Look – I get that it’s your little corner of the internet, you’re free to write, feel and emabarass yorselves in any way you see fit. As am I…and I frequently do…and, while I rarely agree with the unquestioning devotion you guys exhibit here (preferring to believe that challenging your assumptions and being open to change can only lead to positive evolution in the main), I do appreciate the effort y’all go to to maintain the blog, and respect the nobility of your intentions with Ref Watch.

    If not the paranoia. :-p

  • bc

    oh also forgot rui patricio in that first list. apparently we had a bid turned down for him last season

  • Zé Günner

    “…of whom you decry are badly misjudged”…goshdarn it…must learn to be bothered to proof read…

  • gouresh

    you’ve missed Ronaldo and Messi. wonder why the media have not linked with them to us. don’t they want to sell more and more papers?

  • Roman

    I would like to see us sign Higauin, Irllmendi, Thiago, Wanyama, Telleo, Sangogo, and a young high quality CB (not sure about the Greek from Shalke).

    At he same time see Bendtner, Santos, Djourou, Manonne, Frimpong, Conquelin, Park, Chamackh, and possibly Rosicky and Gervinho leave.

    This could raise up to £40m which would see a net spend of around £35m but a wage reduction of £10m a season by the time we inc Squillaci Arshavin and Denilson.

    This would add high quality depth as well as improve the first 11. Higauin as the starting striker, Wanyama along side Artetabin the holding role, Illremendi learning from Arteta, Thiago, Wilshere and Cazorla as the creatives, Telleo adding pace and width with a good left foot.

  • bjtgooner

    A timely article Tony.

    I do hope Higuain signs for us, but I won’t be pulling a cork until I see the announcement on Arsenal.com.

    I am not sure about Rooney, does he have only two years left on his contract & if so is the present hype because he is looking for a pay rise? I don’t like the on field and off field baggage which Rooney brings with him, further I may be wrong about this, but is Rooney a declining force?

    The other type of player I expected AW to seek out was a DM. I have not seen enough of Wanyama to make a judgment and Fellaini can play DM, but seems more comfortable further forward. I suspect an AW surprise if he does purchase a DM.

  • Mick

    @Zé Günner
    ‘but 43%?! Seems…well…a bit too random as to have any meaning…!’
    and later…
    ‘Think César to Arsenal is more like 69% done.’
    Seems…well…a bit too random as well doesn’t it?

  • Rupert Cook

    I can’t see Rooney coming. I always presumed that was a rather fanciful story dreamed up by someone. I don’t think Manu are going to sell a high profile player to league rivals unless they know something about Rooney we don’t and as much as he’s been rather ordinary of late I’d still rate him highly.

  • John

    I think Strootman and Thiago for 15m and 17m are steals two players are already great talents and will be around for a long time.

    Not so sure about Higuaín is he a team player do he get back and help with the dirty stuff ??? Yes he is a excellent goalscorer but how will be settle.

    I’d prefer Benteke we need a strong quick target man who can hold up the ball and convert the many chances we create I really hope I’m wrong and he bangs in a ton of goals if he signs.

  • Zé Günner

    Mick look again…just after what you quoted. “Winky face” that didn’t quite come off. May have been a gag…sorry it wasn’t obvious enough.

  • colario

    The normal summer patten of Arsenal transfers is: all and sundry declare Arsenal are going to buy this or that player.

    It can hit the extreme with one ‘reliable source’ claiming we are going to buy ‘the wonder player or ‘the wonder kid’ and on the same day from ‘another reliable source’ Arsenal are not going to buy the player or the kid.

    The web abounds with blogs from experts and fans informing us why Arsene should buy their preferred player or commenting on what former player has said in the media about who should or not be bought.

    Who also get media and blogs jibe at Arsene because he doesn’t or wont ‘spend the money’.

    The only voice that doesn’t speak on the subject is the Arsenal website – the only voice that can be believed on the subject!

    Summer closes in on autumn and the silence on the Arsenal website is deafening or even frightening.

    Then the Arsenal website welcomes new players to the club, usually but not always players no one thought to mention.

    The critics shout ‘panic buys again’ The rest of us being supporters hope the newbies succeed – usually they do.

    The certainty is that the season is under way (apart from the interruption of annoying international matches) and this summer of boring media and blogs is over until the next summer.

  • Matt

    Ze Gunner

    Thanks for saying so eloquently what I also think about thi blog.

  • Ruud Van Tanda

    viktor fischer, enough said……..

  • Ben

    On a separate note has anyone seen this funny video?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB_hEX5LefA

  • Pat

    That was a laugh Ben!

  • Stuart

    Zé Günner
    Tony did not claim the newspaper had quoted him!

  • Stuart

    And Ze Gunner,
    I rather feel you are the paranoid one, I quote:-

    “pretending that your cries of “AAA” are any different or somehow more correct than those of whom you decry”

    No one pretends they are any different, infact, it is detailed in the glossary section of the blog that it is intended as a response to the term AKB.

    It’s only in your paranoid little mind that this is all on way.

  • Zé Günner

    Who says I’m paranoid? I’m not paranoid…only CRAZY people are paranoid…I’ll find out who’s saying that I’m paranoid and remove their tongues like the US government removes the tongues of whistleblowers…

    Firstly…Iasked him if he was quoted so he justify his ridiculous “post hoc ergo propter hoc” claim that his joke about us signing Crouch had anything to do with the piece in the paper. Arrogantly assumptive if it is, as I admittedly assume, unprovable.

    By the by…i reject both AKB and AAA, as detailed. Response or not…two wrongs making a right is something we’re meant to learn at young age doesn’t happen. And people here DO pretend AAA is more valid. My point could have been further illustrated: a fan of a rival team coming on here and engaging with you is welcomed and debated with. Any Arsenal fan who tries to do the same is shouted down as AAA, the vast majority (I acknowledge not all) refusing to acknowledge any criticism of the players / manager of Arsenal as having any merit. Ridiculous. In fact, you, Stuart, are a famtastic example of what I mean: rather than trying to look at what I wrote as a whole, you’ve pulled apart one word. ONE WORD. Also (a minor point), you fail to explain how I’m paranoid. I mean TOTALLY fail to demonstrate one iota of having a point. I could be WRONG…I can admit that and will happily change my mind if you can show me how and why I’m wrong (as I have you, I feel)…but It boggles my tiny mind how you’ve interpreted what I’ve written as “paranoid”.

    If you need it, I have a pound coin here you can have. You can use it buy yourself a clue…better yet, I’ll give you a tenner…you can buy yourself a dictionary and look up the definition of “paranoid”…

  • Zé Günner

    Also…this isn’t my ride on this particular rollercoaster…

  • Zé Günner

    First ride…ah, forget it…lol…

  • Adam

    First of all, people on this site do criticize the players and question the club, but in a way that doesn’t come across as, “I alone have the answers”, or being overly negative.

    Plus, generally we don’t start a comment by stating “Your arrogance rears it’s head”, that’s a personal attack and uncalled for.

    Everyone has the right to question what they don’t understand or ask a person to clarify their position, but you have the choice in how you go about that, it seems you may have upset some people.

    Your original comment comes across as aggressive.

    Could you please clarify your position, so that I can understand why this seems so.

  • J

    The Rooney story is just too out-landish! A news story breaks that Arsenal can now spend x amount of money and because Arsene once said he is a great player and that anyone would be interested (with a traditional Wenger wink and smile) the papers print that we are. The guy would cost a massive amount in wages, a sizeable transfer fee and what’s more, why would he leave a club consistently winning trophies to come to us? I love the club to bits, but lets be honest, we are not challenging for trophies. A far more likely scenario is we get Yaya Sanogo … Sigh of relief, the world is back to normal, Sanogo is a def Wenger type buy.
    Back go Rooney leaving … Is he really going to have a hissy fit and leave United to come to Arsenal … I would give that a 0% chance.

    Higuain* would be a great signing… but I just do not see it! Yep, I am being sceptical, but why would we buy Sanogo? We have got Podolski, Walcott and Giroud … Chamakh and Bender are still Arsenal players and it looks like we are keeping Gervinho (Would love to see him go!!) Where does Higuain* fit in? So Pod stays on the wing, Theo stays on the wing, Giroud is second string, gervinho an impact sub along with the ox? I just get the feeling there is disappointment ahead for Arsenal this summer.

  • Adam

    Wow, alot of negativity towards some of our current squad.

    I see things differently.

    A settling defence, some experience in midfield to steady the younger players who also have plenty of premier league experience but less life experience.

    A forward who wants to succeed and progress, another maybe on the way.

    A manager who has beaten most top managers and clubs in recent seasons working within a budget that would have sent most clubs spiraling.

    I feel positive and am looking forward to the coming season, World cup seasons usually have a higher quality to them with players wanting to play and impress.

  • Zé Günner

    Absolutely, and a fair request.

    I’m a long time reader and a sometime commenter. My experience over the years has been mixed.

    This blog has many good points – both in terms of contributors, commenters and ambition.

    It also has many, many negatives – chief amongst them the arrogance and paranoia as detailed above. I’ve posted here, in peace, and found that opposing views are not welcome, attacked (AAA used as a catch-all term for those who disagree with the UA stance – rarely constructive debate). I’ve also seen Tony’s ego start to run amok. It’s funny, and my commentary on it isn’t supposed to offend (though I can see why it does), only to temper such rampant egotism.

    As for the paranoia? The thought that Ref Watch, noble as it’s aim is, carries any weight is ridonkadonk. Your results are the opinion of one man (the reviewer) vs another man (the ref), which is then backed as absolute by the community here. Again I may be wrong…but opinions, including the hundreds of different interpretations of an incident in a football match,are subjective and all the merry gang do is prove the concept of confirmation bias. PROFESSIONAL refs and footballers struggle to agree as to how the laes of the game should be applied yet your version is the right one? Not drinking that kool-aid, sir, no-sir…leaving to Tony “Jim Jones” Attwood and his lap dog(face)…although, to be fair, I like and respect Dogfaces opinion, it’s just the joke was better wi that in there…lol…

    As for the conspiracy theory propogated by UA in terms of some wide-reaching PGMO / Media anti-Arsenal agenda? No evidence yet accepted here as fact. The very definition of paranoia.

    I criticise this site for the same reason I do most things I like…including the Gooners…I think it has the potential to be better if it’s shortcomings are accepted. I’m happy to be proved wrong in any way and made better myself too. I feel we have a duty to challenge each other, constructively if possible, to make ourselves the best “we” we can be!

    Lofty ambition? Absolutely. As hysterically naïve as some of the output here? Aw hells yes. Offensive? Occasionally…and I do apologise, but my previous experiences here have taught that automatic defensive posture is best.

    Anyhoo…the gauntlet’s laid. Prove me wrong.

  • bjtgooner

    @Ze Gunner

    Can you remind me when you previously posted on this site?

  • Zé Günner

    Different name. Same result. Last summer.

  • Adam

    I think personal expectation levels are just that, personal. It’s O.K to critique, but why must a team or organisation conform to your expectation levels, I ask this as Im intrigued as to what the answer is.

    Im no expert on this AAA or any other abbreviation of supporting faction.

    I believe the information out there in the media is poor, TV punditry is shocking with very little solid, honest, correct information. Most is biased, but expected.

    I have my own opinions on the officials but listen or read carefully what Walter has to say.

    I believe there is mismanagement in the management of officials training all the way back to county FA’s, also seems an organisation that is run on a need to know basis.

    Im interested in the background rules of the sport and can confidently state that football is in a mess and needs cleaning up and standardising.

  • Zé Günner

    Adam – there is not one thing you’ve said there that I disagree with and I appreciate your need to understand the root of the games issues.

    For your first statement…I don’t think it’s about conformity, and anyone who thinks their gun is packing the magic bullet is…confused…to say the least, arrogant at worst. I think the vitriol comes from two things: a desire to be right and an inability to accept when you’re not.

    For me, the first thing I think would have a real impact at a grass-roots level is to take away the focus from WINNING in the kids game – focus on technique and teaching them how to play the game. Better players playing with better technique will lead to better teams playing better games!

    Secondly…ALL PE teachers / coaches of football teams should pass a refereeing course at ALL levels. Refereeing should be taught as a sports skill – and from the same point as you teach kicks to first kick a ball. It’s great for inclusivity, too. You know that kid who can’t the ball strait? My money’s on him being able to blow a whistle…

  • Zé Günner

    Sorry – the only thing I’d challenge is the quality of punditry – I think there are some fantastic voices out…none of which are on MotD…lol…and I really don’t believe in any orchestrated vendetta against the Arsenal, either. Think there are some tools on panels who who do hate us…normally the Shearers of the world who, for all of their talent, had Arsenal standing in the way of winning medals. Understandable in its way! And natural bias…which we all have…is never dishonest, it comes from a good place…

  • Linz

    Who is this goalkeeping sensation? Surely you can’t be talking about Martinez,as he has not impressed so far.The best young goalkeeper on the planet is Courtois;in fact he is rapidly becoming one of THE best goalkeepers in the world and he is out on loan! Crazy!Chelsea have had players out on loan who would walk into our first team;Lukaku,Courtois and De Bruyn.Sigh.Higuains father has said that they have agreed personal terms with Juventus AND Arsenal,so it is down to the clubs now as to who offers the most money i guess. So,its Sanogo up front next season i guess!

  • Unbelievable belief

    Ze
    Read your post of 11:46pm again.
    I don’t see anyone on this blog having a go at you, but your terms of reference to people, is quite plainly disrespectful.

  • Zé Günner

    Unbelievable…read it again yourself..! My opinion hasn’t been based on this single thread but one built up over an extended period of time. Was that not clear? Apologies if not.

  • Zé Günner

    That wasn’t meant to come across as aggressively as it does. Sorry.

  • ARSENAL 13

    Has Tony opened his shit bag again???….. (oopppssss, I meant Tony Adams). He wants to be the Chairman now. At this rate, he will register a claim to be the next “Queen of England”.

  • Rupert Cook

    @Shard, let me know if you want to meet up tomorrow morning.

    After some of the above comments I think the chance of signing Higuain may have dropped to 87%.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Zé Gunner,
    you said : “As for the paranoia? The thought that Ref Watch, noble as it’s aim is, carries any weight is ridonkadonk.”

    I know that some PL referees followed our series with great interest.

    So if it doesn’t carry any weight then why would they talk about us when they see each other?

    During the years we have done our work on referees we have been contacted by people behind the scenes. People in the referee world. Former PL referees, assessors, people who work in the referee world.

    Mind you no direct contact has been made by PL referees or active refs. And I wouldn’t want it any other way unless they want to become the one that wants to clean up the PGMO. 😉

    So I do know that we do have an impact. But I cannot prove it unless I uncover my sources. And that is the last thing I will do.

    So you can think that what we do is “ridonkadonk” (I couldn’t refuse to use it), I know better.

    This will probably sound arrogant to you but I know what I know. And that is much more than I can tell on Untold.

  • americangooner

    ze gunner, you can believe or say whatever you want but i have a objection with regards to PGMOL. As you know the PGMO is headed by Mike Riley. The same Mike who gave dubious penalty against us in ‘The 50th match’. He had already awarded 7 penalties to MANUre that season and the rooney one was the eighth. Plus he had numerous uncalled fouls against Arsenal in that match.

    PGMOL had a website too but since riley it was closed.
    The refrees performance aren’t properly scrutinized and the assesors report are not published. basically there’s no transparency.

    What refree decisions does is scrutinize the performance of the ref.What is so conspiratorial to scrutinize ref performance? Its actually done by former refs themselves who know the rules. Obviously you haven’t examined Ref Decisions. if you had problems with ref decisions why don’t you give them feedback. Ref Decisions site is not paranoia, but an performance evaluation and examination.

    Have you ever thought why we get Mike Dean as ref regularly? I don’t think so he is sent to disrupt our game with silly decisions. But why does he get to ref Arsenal match so many times? Why can’t PGMOL answer such questions?

  • Ze Gunner, sound familiar ain’t you one of the sewer rats let loose this time aerier? Keep on posting we would love to know you plans next season,but remember as always you will not gain anythin but moaning i pity your soul magwampa.

  • Zé Günner

    Sweet Jesus! Does anyone actually read what I’ve written? I have no problem with Ref Watch – I’ve said repeatedly that I think it’s ambitions are noble. The conspiracy comes from the fact that it has been stated on more than occasion that the PGMO perpetuates some sort of Anti-Arsenal agenda – as you yourself have highlighted.

    Kampala, my Ugandan friend, I may well have been one of those “sewer rats let loose this time aerier”(?), still…my soul appreciates your thoughts, if not your pity. Lastly – can tell me what magwampa means? If it’s an insult it’s a great one and I wouldn’t be comfortable using it without knowing what it means.

    Walter – i can only comment on what I know, and, not knowing any refs, lack your inside track. I will, however take your word for it – you seem too old to be too dishonest or that delusional… 😉

    I suppose my real itch with Ref Watch, and this is just a query, I’m not having a go here, is why you think quantitative analysis is possible when dealing with referee decisions…refereeing itself is acknowledged as being qualitative analysis, and therefore fallible?

  • WalterBroeckx

    Ze Gunner,

    Of course it can be judged to both quality and quantity.

    A decision is right or wrong. As I ref I know this all too well. We have to make our decision on the field in a split second. But a ref should be aware that he can be wrong.
    So what we do is in the first place look at the decision as a black/white decision. Correct, no problem. Not correct: should do better.
    Now of course you could argue that some decisions are difficult to see for the ref. And they are. But that still doesn’t mean that they can be wrong (or right of course). But that “difficult to see” is only to indicate how difficult it is for the ref on the field. And why getting him some help might not be a bad idea.

    But if all refs would be honest and if we count all their mistakes we should see a kind of level end score. We didn’t find it last season and the season before. For the season just finished we still are counting so I don’t know if we will see the same trends or not. I’m as curious as the rest for the moment and haven’t got a clue.

    And the more reviews we have, the more indications you have that some refs might not be completely unbiased when doing some teams.

    And in a way we are doing what that PGMO is doing themselves. If they think it can be done, why can’t we? 😉

  • Zé Günner

    Your last point is very, very valid – i’d love to see some transparency and independence brought in to “watch the watchmen”.

    There is a natural bias to every thought we have – I agree that refs can biased, in the same way that your love of Arsenal will…WILL…lead to a natural bias towards 50:50 decisions going our way. There’s nothing sinister or bad about that, it’s just human nature. Ask 5 refs to ref the same match and you’ll get 5 different reports because, being the sum of our own individual experiences, we have different values, biases and opinions. This is why a quant screen on refs is a tough sell to me.

    Lastly – there’s a constant mention of Mike Dean and Mike Riley on here…would you acknowledge that the animosity felt towards them is likely to lead to a negative bias when evaluating their actions or comments?

    Thanks, by the way, for having a sense of humour and engaging sensibly.

  • Zé Günner

    Also – I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on my response to Adam earlier, particularly the second one about teaching ref’ing to kids from a young age and ensuring all coaches/PE teachers are also qualified refs…

  • @Ze Gunner, Magwampa was a king(in the 10 century) in Amudat present day Karamoja who had almost everything but he never ever appreciated what he had. One day there was a kill(Hunters)a big Impala, the king had all the meat but he wanted the Impala too on his way he hard that Grasshoppers (nsenene) a delicacy for most Africans as prawns are to most Europeans, where in the surroundings so he decided that he would go for both,walking majestically he spread his legs i want the nsenene i want the meat so he was spread into two and died. His grave is still there up to today. MAGWAMPIKI CHARACTER.

  • Zé Günner

    Kampala…that is both a cool story and a cool insult. Kudos.

  • bjtgooner

    @Ze Gunner

    What name did you use last summer?

  • Zé Günner

    My real name, which is quite rare (nicely, it’s also a Phillipino girls name…something my dad didn’t know in’76 and remained blissfully unaware of until I hundreds of friend requests from fans of a popular singer with the same name). A mistake I won’t be repeating as some of your more “Jehadi” type Scientonyists managed to get my e-mail address and bombarded with some very nice e-mails for a day or two.

  • bjtgooner

    ‘Ze Gunner

    You must have insulted a lot of fans last summer; lets see how you might have done so: –

    at 8.53am you posted “not knowing any refs”

    at 9.23am you posted “Lastly – there’s a constant mention of Mike Dean and Mike Riley on here…would you acknowledge that the animosity felt towards them is likely to lead to a negative bias when evaluating their actions or comments?”

    If you don’t know the refs are you in a position to question the views of those who have studied the performance of these and other refs in detail?

    The next question is do you watch Arsenal matches? You would not be the first person to post on this site about the Arsenal without watching the matches.

    If you do watch the matches why do you not know anything about the refs? If you do not watch the matches, what is your motivation?

  • Zé Günner

    Dear Lord…let me qualify the first statement:

    I do not know any professional referees PERSONALLY. Hope that clears that up…

    Yes, I’m Stoke Newington born and have been going to Arsenal since I was 4 years old. I’m a season ticket holder and have been known to exchange the odd peaceful word with Dogface in the ground over a beer (near Block 13, by the way…).

  • bjtgooner

    @Ze Guner

    OK, assuming you attend the matches regularly, why are you not aware of the shortcomings of Riley & Dean and why are you trying to suggest that UA is not totally subjective when evaluating ref performance.

  • Zé Günner

    I’m aware that all men are capable of errors and some are downright incompetent…I do not, however, stoop to unproveable accusations of colusion against our football club.

    I do think UA is totally subjective…and therein lies the problem…it’s the lack of objectivity which is the problem and is something unobtainable as they are naturally biased, as fans, in favour of Arsenal and against the likes of Dean & Riley.

    And you don’t need to assume. Have only missed a handful of home games in 13 years…and all due to kids or work. I go, I cheer, I support the team. You?

  • Stuart

    Ze Gunner,
    You are definitely paranoid.

  • Zé Günner

    Stuart. You fail at wind-ups. Try harder.

  • Stuart

    I’m not trying to wind you up, just stating things as I see them.

    You clearly stated Tony had claimed the newspaper were quoting him when that is not the case.

    You are misrepresenting the facts and making up truths and to be honest, it’s not on.

    With regard to AAA and AKB, I too feel awkward about these, they are too pigeon holed for my liking however they can be turned into describing a point of view (which is all they are really) instead of being used in the aggressive / abusive manner they usually are.

  • Zé Günner

    No I didn’t. Try again. I asked him if he was quoted so he could prove that the piece in the paper was connected to him in any whatsoever. Notice the question mark? That’d be a QUESTION rather than a STATEMENT.

    As I’ve said (repeatedly) if could tell me why or how I’m paranoid, or how I’m “misrepresenting the facts and making up truths” I’ll happily apologise, change my mind – I’m not ashamed of being wrong on occasion.

    Just saying random things without backing up your claims is a bit…y’know…pointless…

  • bjtgooner

    @Ze Gunner

    “it’s the lack of objectivity which is the problem and is something unobtainable as they are naturally biased, as fans, in favour of Arsenal and against the likes of Dean & Riley.”

    So UA show a lack of objectivity?

    I agree that Arsenal fans will be sympathetic towards the club, but does that make them lose objectivity? Can you prove that the fans view of Dean and Riley is held because of lack of objectivity, or would you concede that the past performance of these two gentlemen has a major influence on their reputation?

  • Zé Günner

    I don’t have to concede anything…you’ve made my point for me. Their “past performance having a major influence on their reputation” and consequently how they’re actions are reviewed / interpreted is exactly why it’s impossible to retain objectivity – reputation is a point of view, not a fact. A subjective judgement.

    So…in summary…you’re wrong.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Ze Gunner,
    If we would be subjective how come we have given Dean a perfect score this season in our reviews? A review done by an Arsenal supporting ref and a 100% score.
    Surely if we went by his reputation we would have found something.
    Well at least I think I remember a 100% score of Dean in one of his game last season 😉

  • Zé Günner

    The Wigan game by any chance? I honestly wouldn’t know….but that’d be my guess for obvious reasons. Now…have you ever given a ref 100% in a game Arsenal lost on more than a handful of occasions? That’d be more credible…though…as I say…you could pretty much say what you’d like here and I’d have to believe you, but hey ho…

  • bjtgooner

    @Ze Gunner

    “reputation is a point of view, not a fact.”

    There is a vast volume of evidence (facts) in the history of Dean and Riley. Are you aware of it?

    Are you sure you watch Arsenal matches?

  • Zé Günner

    No…as far as referees are concerned there can only ever be opinion when it comes to interpreting the more…nebulous…incidents. That’s why even referees disagree over the application of the rules at times. I’m not saying these guys are infallible, I’m not saying there’s not merit and an awful lot right about Ref Watch…what I am saying is that there is no underlying plot against the arsenal from the PGMO, and the subject reviews suffer from three things…natural bias (as does the ref), confirmation bias and a lack objectivity.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    George Bernard shaw -football critic –

    People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

    The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.

    A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.

  • Zé Günner

    Bjt…provide me with some of these “facts”. Convince me of all the intrigues currently being against us. Or keep on saying nothing but “you’re wrong” without backing up why. That’d be the SMART move…

  • Brickfields Gunners

    George ,again –

    No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says: He is always convinced that it says what he means.

  • americangooner

    Dont understand why the ref should be given a 100% in a game Arsenal lost in order to forcibly prove credibility of Refree Decisions. I think an score of 85%+ would be more than sufficient in that particular circumstance.

  • Zé Günner

    Brickfields…that quote is exactly what I mean…! Lol…first one was a cracker, though, and makes a good point. i’ll get me coat…

  • Brickfields Gunners

    She isn’t monkeying around !

    I think we’re still in a muddle with our language, because once you get words and a spoken language it gets harder to communicate.
    Jane Goodall

  • Brickfields Gunners

    More critics

    Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
    Mark Twain

    If the facts don’t fit the theory, change the facts.
    Albert Einstein

    I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me.
    Fred Allen

  • bjtgooner

    @Ze Gunner

    If you frequently watch Arsenal matches you would not have to ask for any facts regarding Dean and Riley.

    The fact that you ask that question suggests that you are full of bluster.

    You do indeed remind me of someone who did post previously on this site, but the name used then was not that of a Filipino girl. I suspect you are a liar – not just about your name, but also wrt your pretence about being an Arsenal fan.

  • Zé Günner

    Bjt – more meaningless drivel, mate…ask Dogface where he drinks….guaranteebat times it’s near my block. If you want…next season, I’ll meet you for a beer to prove it! Likelihood is I’ve forgotten more aboutbthe Arsenal than you’ll ever know, and been to more home games than you’ll ever watch.

    What was the name, by the by? Calling me a liar with no basis to is a bit of a shitty move…

  • bjtgooner

    @Ze Gunner

    Not just a liar but an arrogant one too.

  • Stuart

    Ze Gunner
    Don’t try and worm your way out of it now. I quote you below where you ask Tony whilst at the same time suggesting he made the claim.

    “but once again, Tony, your arrogance rears it’s head…were you quoted by that paper with regards to the Crouch story??”

  • Stuart

    Ze Gunner,
    I disagree with you on the matter that ref decisions can only be a matter of opinion as the things that happen on the pitch are quantifiable occurrences in as much as they either do happen or they don’t happen. It is 100% possible to judge that a ref failed to award a penalty or a goal etc just as it is so to establish that the ref awarded a foul that didn’t occur. The

  • Zé Günner

    Starts with “Were you quoted, finish with question marks = question. Obviously a question to anyone who’s read ANY European-derived language due it’s USE OF A QUESTION MARK! Lol…I cannot fathom how you can’t understand that. No need to “worm my way out” of anything…ask your English teacher…lol…

    Bjt…again, you’re illustrating my point for me. Anyone who’s treated me with respect has been treated with respect in return. You were the one who started with the bullshit, petulant, no point and no proof arguments. Everything I’ve said I’ve backed with pretty solid reasons as to why I feel like that…you don’t have to agree with me, I admit I can be wrong…but if you’re going to dig me out bring a better game than that. As I’ve said…because I disagree and will argue my point with (I hope) a modicum of thought going into my responses I get attacked. Not that I can’t admit that my problem with Tony’s ill checked ego isn’t the most passive thing I’ve done…but none of you…NONE…have given me any case to change my mind. About anything. But…y’know…feel free to leave me here on the moral high ground. 😉

  • bjtgooner

    @Ze Gunner

    You really do love yourself!

    From your first post on this thread, when you accuse Tony of being arrogant – it is quite clear that you are the arrogant one, you are the one without substantivity and you are trying to bullshit and bluster when you are called to account.

    You do not have any moral high ground, only a piece of gutter close to the AAA sewer.

  • Stuart

    Not at all, you intended it as an accusation, a rhetorical question.

  • Stuart

    Did you say you used a different alias in the past? Was it Rhys Jagger by any chance?

  • Zé Günner

    Bjt…you keep telling yourself that. I have no idea why you’re getting so het up…you can’t take your lack of a point out on me (or your lack of intellect…lol).

    Feel free to think of me what you will based on our limited exchanges here…and I’ll continue to think that Tony is arrogant (and demonstrate why) from my “gutter close to the AAA sewer”.

    You win, mate, incidentally – you were the first to resort to using AAA before I went for AKB (not that I would which is kind of the point). Well done. I’ll take that moral high ground up a notch, thanks. 😀

  • Zé Günner

    No mate. Rhys Jaggar is an arse. One of very few people in this world worthy of your cretinous AAA badge.

  • Zé Günner

    Stuart…it certainly was NOT rhetorical! How can you claim to read between non-existent lines when the truth is right in front of you is nothing short of AMAZING mental gymnastics…

  • Zé Günner

    Look…let me spell it out for you as I clearly need too…You’ve all had a pop at this little word or that part of sentence and called me wrong without backing it up – and in Stuarts case just plain inventing things. All I ask is, if you’re going to call me wrong PROVE me wrong…

  • Stuart

    I stand by what i said, you are worming your way out of it.

  • Zé Günner

    And it’s your right to do so, Stuart, regardless of how obstinate it makes you look…

  • bjtgooner

    Ze Gunner

    You have not substantiated your allegations and accusations. Yet you accuse others of not backing up their points. Your ego and arrogance clouds what little grey matter you have.

    And don’t kid yourself on having any moral high ground, in your efforts to come on here and insult UA you have made a fool of yourself.

    Stuart is right, you are trying to worm your way out of the arrogance and foolishness you have displayed, but too late.

  • Zé Günner

    Yes…yes I have. Backed it up quite reasonably, too. Which is why you can’t find an argument to beat me, preferring to resort to name calling, insults and vague statements of ill intent without any merit or supporting evidence. Crack on…it’s certainly making me look foolish…

    As for “insulting ” UA ? Think, if you read back, that I’ve said as many positive things aboutnthe site as negative and backed up all of my accusations with evidence. Oh, and I SUPPOSE I insulted Tony, too…but even with his ego I think he’d deny that he is UA…

    In fact…my main complaint is about how the commenters on here treat fellow Arsenal fans who disagree with them worse than they do opposing fans who disagree with them. Way to prove me wrong, gents…

    Read back…you’ll be surprised…

  • bjtgooner

    @Ze Gunner

    Have you ever had mental problems – I mean before today?

  • Gunz

    @Zé Günner

    Have you ever posted as SteveO,Nieni,Vuneet or Swean?

  • Zé Günner

    No…posted under my real name. Fr about a week. Was more reactive and brought SOME of the reaction I received upon myself, I can admit that. This time? Read back…you decide…

    As for mental illness, BJT? Wow…way to mock the afflicted…lol…

    Anyhoo…I’m not mad. My mum had me tested.

  • bjtgooner

    @Ze Gunner

    Perhaps a second opinion would be helpful?

  • Zé Günner

    It’d have to be someone impartial..lol…or, obviously, you could just one of your pals…

    Look…it means more to you…do what makes you feel happy…

  • bjtgooner

    @Ze Gunner

    OK, we will try to get a specialist who is neither AAA nor AKB and not a Spurs fan, someone with a good bedside manner so that you will enjoy being committed.

  • Zé Günner

    Well I got the wrong end of the stick…didn’t think think you’d persist with the insults and name calling…but you crack on. Get it out of your system.whatever you do…don’t stop making me RIGHT…

  • bjtgooner

    @Ze Gunner

    Do remember the first step on the road to recovery is admitting the problem!

  • Zé Günner

    You spend an awful lot of your time and many, many wordssaying nothing, sir, if you have a point I’d appreciate it if you’d get to it…for both our sakes…why don’t you take a time out, go get Shard and ask him, nicely, how to play nice with your betters. He’s a good lad. Should be able to point you in the right direction…

  • bjtgooner

    @Ze Gunner

    Why don’t you take your own advice? I suppose by arguing and blustering you try to distract everyone from the point you started with – your allegation that Tony was arrogant – which you cannot substantiate.

    All your subsequent allegations that others are not backing up their points is nothing but a smokescreen.

    If you come on this site and attack – be prepared to get as good in return.

  • Zé Günner

    Read back. Did substantiate it. No one’s made me reconsider my opinion, though, because it seems peeps…maybe…can’t argue with an opinion that’s….I don’t know…RIGHT?

    Read back Bjt…it’ll hopefully give you the sliver of self awareness required to recognise you’re MAKING MY POINT FOR ME. But…honestly…I hope you’re enjoying yourself. I mean…I’m in hospital for a lobotomy and have nothing else to do…but you? Man…you’re a regular Tom Cruise. If Tony’s David Miscavige, I mean…

  • bjtgooner

    @Ze Gunner

    Perhaps a double lobotomy would cure your delusions.

  • Zé Günner

    More words, more nothing. More lack of self awareness. Seriously cool gag, though, how you took what I already said and just DOUBLED IT!!! That was just amazeballs ridonkadonk. No one saw it coming…you just dropped some REAL, OLD-SKOOL SCIENCE on my chastened soul. Whatever next ?! A TRIPLE LOBOTOMY?! Say it ain’t so!

    I never thought I’d miss the dazzling wit of Scott from Oz…