Me and Ivan Gazidis: we meet at last

By Tony Attwood

Ivan Gazidis is the chief executive of Arsenal FC.  I’m, well, the editor of Untold Arsenal, and the Arsenal History site, and I write books and adverts.

And we met, Mr Gazidis and I, in an office in Highbury House (which if you are not able to get to the matches I should explain, is the office block which was built at the same time as the Ems, about half way between the stadium and the old ground – you walk underneath them if you go up the steps at the north bridge.)

I would like to say that Mr Gazidis called me in for me to advise him on some of the finer points of running the club, but the truth of it is that I was there as part of the regular meetings held between committee members of Arsenal Independent Supporters Association, and the top echelon at Arsenal.

On this occasion there were three people from AISA, Mr Gazidis, and Arsenal’s head of communications.   It is the first of these meetings that I have attended, and I used the occasion to talk about the Arsenal History project that is (as you may know if you have been paying attention so far) very dear to my heart.

It would not be appropriate for me to talk about what was said in the meeting, because the whole point of it is that it is an informal way in which AISA can relay to the club at the highest level what is going on in supporters’ minds, and for AISA to get feedback from the club on its new projects.  And part of that informality is that confidences are respected.

But the fact that this liaison exists is the key thing – because it shows that there is a desire within the club to hear the views of supporters.

It’s not the only way in which this liaison works – the club also has meetings with representatives of Silver Membership, Red Membership, Arsenal Supporters Trust and Red Action, through a supporters’ panel, but this meeting is a chance for AISA to put across its own members views.

If you are a member of AISA (and if not why not? you should be!) the news about this sort of work will get through to you that way, but there are few bits and pieces I can reveal…

There are terrific plans for expansion of Arsenalisation into the upper level concourses and spaces – we saw the photos of what is planned to put on the walls during the early part of the season, and it will make the spaces look much more exciting.

And within my own area of interest, there is a real enthusiasm within the club for a development of the Arsenal History project.  I believe I’ve mentioned before that I’ve done a piece for the Arsenal in the Community book on fans and their experiences, and this has led on to talk about a definitive Woolwich Arsenal book.  I believe that Arsenal FC really want to take this development of historical awareness further, and to explore ways of taking this awareness of our club’s past beyond the Arsenalisation project itself.

At this stage I can’t really say any more about AISA’s Arsenal History project, basically because it is now up to me to start putting clear proposals to Mr Gazidis for ideas and ways in which Arsenal’s history can be celebrated more fully – and certainly if you have any ideas and want to feed them to me please do.  Once the AISA plans have been submitted to Arsenal, and Arsenal has made a response, I ought to be able to start writing it up on the Arsenal History site.

but let me say that one of the starting points that I presented is perhaps the most obvious of ideas – and one that has been floated around on the Arsenal History site, that we have a large statue of Herbert Chapman somewhere outside the ground, so that his presence is recorded for everyone – not just those who enter via the Director’s entrance, or who go on the stadium tour, or indeed who dine in the newly re-worked restaurants at club level.

I can’t say this will happen – this was after all just a preliminary meeting, and there are a million practical issues to be considered.  But my point is that through the good offices of AISA I personally had the opportunity to put this idea, and a few others, to the chief exec of the club – and I do personally believe that as a result some of these projects will happen in the future.

The three of us from AISA also had a tour, to look at the changes in club level and I must say I am green with envy of everyone who has a club level ticket.  I am, even as I write, working out if I could go and get a fourth mortgage on Untold Apartments so I can afford a ticket there.  Having done that I wouldn’t be able to afford to eat or drink there, but it would still be worth it.

There is one part of Club Level where the walls are decorated as a series of comic strips relaying magic moments from the past.  That must sound very naff the way I have said it – so I won’t try and describe what else has been done, but if you have a club level ticket you’ll know, if not, go on the tour when you get the chance.

So that was it.  Me and Mr Gazidis.  Close as… well, across the desk.  And I shook hands with him.  And I gave him a copy of “Making the Arsenal” – so if you want to be seen reading the same book as the Chief Executive of Arsenal FC, you know what book you need.

Overall, the fact that AISA can set up these meetings speaks volumes for AISA and I would strongly recommend membership.  Of course I would, because I am now on the committee of AISA, but I started out as a regular member, believing it was right to support the club through the Association.  And having seen the sort of contact that the Association has with the club, I am really impressed.

Sorry, I know this was not a regular Untold Arsenal sort of post, analysing finances, predicting the demise of most of the second division, and considering the tactics of our midfield.  But it was, for me, a great morning, and I hope I can repay everyone who asked me to be involved, by coming up with some worthwhile ideas on how we can celebrate Arsenal’s history.

Untold’s normal service is here

And the Arsenal History site is here

And I am somewhere up on the ceiling.

38 Replies to “Me and Ivan Gazidis: we meet at last”

  1. while we can cherish the history, its way more important to look for the present and the future of the club..

    i hope uve told him about the need for us to buy new players (established player, rather than more younger players) in order to add maturity and experience into the team, as well as to imporve confidence among the supporters and finally, to end the trophy draught (i hope they dont consider emirates cup as something to be celebrated)

  2. Apek – I don’t think you quite get this site. The banner headline says, “Supporting Lord Wenger”, and that is what this site is about. Supporting the club in its current mode, not trying to tell Arsene Wenger how to do things.

    I agree totally with the approach of the club at the moment, and I do not agree that we need to start buying lots of experienced players just as the youth team we have been nurturing for the past 7 years since they were 11 years old, is just coming to fruition.

    Besides which it would have been completely rude and out of place for me to say such a thing, even if I had believed it, which I don’t.

  3. Excellent, Tony. Remembering, maintaining and passing on the history of Arsenal is vital. It’s the very heart of who we are as a Club and is the shared common bond we all have as supporters.

  4. off topic, londoners need to show fabregase more love than catalans, i request all the emirates faithful to win fab by love and plz don’t hold grudges against him as this will only fuel his desire to move to barcalooney town…battle of fab can only be won with love and not hatred or stupid rants…

  5. Tony…an idea for furthering Arsenalisation…now that you and Ivan are so close please pass it on….the giant legends that are now wrapped around the stadium exterior walls have an unnamed player in the centre of each group…every fan would love to have his or her name on the shirt for a whole season ….so as part of the money raising effort for the AFC chosen charity why not sell “a raffle ticket” on line for say £1. a go throughout the season with no restriction on how many or how few one can purchase. The proceeds will swell the charity coffers and make one fan very happy. The draw should be made to coincide with the last day of the season when we are presented with the Premiership trophy!!

  6. Typical isn’t it Tony?

    You provide us with an excellent article that puts over the sheer class of our club, the reason why most of us love it, & yet your first comment goes back to the usual childish theme.

    Our club is different. Why not enjoy it or there are many other clubs out there that have the player turnover, which seems to be all some of you crave.

  7. Also off topic Tony; I suggest that we all (but especially people like you) mount pressure upon Goonernews to delist blogs like Le Grove. To my mind, the blog was insituted to misinform Arsenal supporters as well as render them disenfranchised. Its so awful they even disallow positive comments. Its that bad. I hope others who feel this way will do something.

  8. i agree wit critic. let us show d bark-a-loan-us scum, that thier plot make us hate our captain was fruitless by making a banner of love 4 him. no boos please, he is no adeba-whore!

  9. I hope you can address the issue of increasing the capacity of Emirates Stadium. We have a big waiting list. We should increase our revenue from bigger capacity as well. Also if possible ask him whether we can re-negotiate our sponsorship deals with Emirates, because we seem to be laggin behind in terms of sponsorship revenue as compared to United, Liverpool or Chelsea.

  10. Sounds like a brilliant day out. So glad people like you get to meet Mr G rather that the likes of your first poster.

  11. ‘supporting the lord wenger in all he does’. Whatever happened to supporting Arsenal?! God help us. ‘in arsene we rust’.

  12. A post on le grove informed us that Emir Spanic was on arsenal’s radar. We were duly informed that the player has averaged less than 18 games per season since 2006. What was carefully omited was that the player was out of action for 2 of the 4 seasons since then, he only returned last season where he started 34 games for Montepelier, and almost captained Bosnia to world cup qualification. I used to think the guys were just your everyday pessimists, now I am beginning to suspect foulplay….

  13. That is the trouble with some of the new fans (post#1). Our club has a fabulous history and all he can post is about new signings.

    Enjoyed the book by the way Tony. Very different to normal history books.

  14. I have been in Club Level many times as, although a season ticket holder myself in ‘penny stinker’ level, I also had access to four Club Level tickets with my last job and hob-knobbed it many a time with the likes of Tamsin Outhwaite and Dara O’Brian in the 49ers bar whilst consuming as many free pints as possible in the half time interval (that’s right Tony, the beer is free up there so you WILL be able to afford that drink). Interestingly the beer is also free and flowing during Champions League fixtures – which is more than can be said for the poor sods in the upper/lower echelons of the Erimatas… but I digress. I would say that the atmosphere and ‘fan base’ in club level stinks so the ‘Arsenalisation’ of that level will be wasted on a significant % who, like me, picked up some spare business tickets for the less glamorous fixtures but unlike me only went to see what this football thing was all about and have a free beer. During the more glam ‘A’ games the level is strewn with away supporters on a corporate jolly chatting on their phones and cheering on the team that they currently believe they support… don’t get me wrong – there are some proper shouty passionate fans up there too – but they are in the minority and glared at disapprovingly should they call the referee a bastard.

    Anyhoo – myself and a group of friends got seats in Club Level for the Emirates cup and the atmosphere up there was as-per-usual non existant; now this is certainly NOT helped by the fact that we, as a group, were asked not to sing by a steward on the grounds that we might offend some people – indeed we would be ‘Removed from the stadium’ if any strong language was heard from our direction again.
    Apparently ‘bastard’ is an unacceptable word to be chanted at those who hail from ‘up north’… I argued this point and informed the steward that ‘bastard’ was in fact used in an episode of The Simpsons shown at 18:30 on BBC2 so it must be therefore acceptable for the stadia of a working man’s sport.

    Alas my words like silent raindrops fell…

    We of course found a loophole and, with the aid of a few brews, decided to go with the singing but substitute a few of the more colourful adjectives with something more acceptable to delicate ears – for anyone who finds themselves in the same situation then may I suggest you do the same, altogether now:

    The Tottenham Hotspur rotters went to Rome to see the Pope,
    The Tottenham Hotspur rotters went to Rome to see the Pope,
    The Tottenham Hotspur rotters went to Rome to see the Pope,
    And this is what he said: GO AWAY!
    Who’s that team we call the Arsenal?
    Who’s that team we all adore?
    We’re the boys in red and white and we’re flipping dynamite!
    And Harry Redknapps mother is a lady of the night!

    You get the picture – come half time we had great fun asking a rather ‘less than impressed’ steward where the bar was… geddit?

    Any chance you could raise some of my observations at the next meeting? Maybe a pamphlet could be produced with regards to how we, as fans, should give our support to the team other than singing ‘the wonder of you’ prior to kick off?


  15. Here we are living in another fantasy world. Just because someone isn’t pro wenger it don’t mean he is childish. We seem too keen on other clubs finances and so on. I have said it before but I will say it again….it’s time to sell him now In the same way that the club is bigger and more important than wenger so too does that apply to cesc. If we had of brought in some quality players then I think that cesc would have accepted wenger’s stance and stayed another season but that hasnt been the case and now we see the very real possibility of having a very unhappy cesc leading us this season I dont blame the guy for wanting to leave and in fact if I was in his shoes I would want away this summer too but tbh the whole saga is beginning to leave a sour taste in the mouth now – I can understand him saying fcuk all while the move looked a possibility but to say nothing then and to choose to come out with comments like he did yesterday when the move has been ruled out is annoying me and can only destabilise the club further

  16. Another day closer to the end of the transfer window and relief for Wenger and still we are apparently not close to signing anyone. Wenger seems to wait until the deadline day. What if he miss as previous times? What excuses will he tell us?? Coz I’m sure this squad will be affected by injuries due to our style of play,the question is who’ll cover those injuries? No wonder he’ll play Eboue as backup center back..Oooh God!!! So much pressure on us!!  The only transfer in sight is a possible move for Jay Simpson to Hull for the paltry sum of £1.25million (this is what I am talking about Jeff) another homegrown English player who has not been given a chance gets bombed out. No doubt he has to help fund another cheapo signing from the French League. When will this farce end?According to reports Torres has confirmed his intention to remain at Liverpool. At the same time Fabregas has said……….well nothing other than “I hope to see all of you more often and closer”. to a group of Barcelona supporters at his home town. Wenger has said it’s time for Fabregas to pledge his future to Arsenal, he has had months to do it. Doesn’t seem to me he is as committed as Wenger keeps telling us he is.Wenger has stated repeatedly in the last few days that Fabregas is staying and is committed. Unfortunately Fabregas has not said the same thing. I am surprised you have not read/seen these reports. The problem is Wenger could have prevented this had he done his job properly over the last 6years. Fabregas is drawn towards Barca for a variety of reasons but he would not be looking to leave now if he thought there was a chance of Arsenal winning trophies. Obviously he doesn’t think that’s likely and he doesn’t want to wait around any longer. Wenger is culpable as the person with overall responsibility and it’s about time he carried the can instead of blaming everyone else. 

  17. Well im absolutely thrilled to see the arsenalisation of the Emirates is set to continue! After all im sure im not the only one that goes week in, week out to see all the lovely pictures on the wall and ignoring the piss poor performances from our useless, talentless goalkeepers.

    Perhaps the next stage could be a small shrine to Bob Wilson and David Seaman that Arsenal fans can go to and cry, when they witness Almunia cock it all up again.

    Money well spent Ivan – good job

  18. Iceman – I think in writing as you do, on a web site that is fully pro-Wenger is a little odd. But you can do it. However if you want to comment again could I ask three things…

    First, could you write in relation to the article that has been published. My fellow writers and I do spend quite a bit of time gathering information and writing up the articles, and for you to talk about a totally different subject is disrespectful. It does say this on several different places on this site.

    Second, could you please say something new. If you look around this site you will find your arguments have been explored many times, and countered fully, so something that incorporates the full debate would be helpful.

    Finally, could you acknowledge that if the situation were reversed, and one of us who is pro-Wenger were to write a pro-Wenger piece on some of the anti-Wenger sites, our post would be removed or worse, tampered with. It would a courtesy to note that.

  19. I just had an idea!

    It’s slightly radical – but that’s how I roll – how about several dedicated graffiti walls inside the stadium where fans can write their immediate thoughts/feelings? A bit like Lennon’s wall in Prague… it would grow/mature over the years and give a good reflection of fan opinion etc?

    It wouldn’t have to be very big and with a few clearly posted disclaimers and guidlines Arsneal could avoid legal responsibility for moronic and/or libelous comment that would no doubt crop up from time to time… might give a sense of ownership to the fans who leave messages, etc?

  20. radical idea, however the emirates is a familly environment and im not sure alot of the langauge that most fans would use can be classed as familly orientated.

  21. LOL… yes – well – I’m yet to see the family that can afford 4.2 season tickets and all sit together!

    Although Bergkamp used to bring his kids when he had a box above the old orange quardrant…

    It’s a good point though and this would no doubt have to be covered in the ‘guidelines’ – as a new form of expression for the fans that can’t be classed as ‘heat of the moment’ or ‘traditional’ I would probably accept the fact that offensive graffiti could be outlawed.

    Saying that – I doubt that I would be able to stop myself scrawling “Mike Dean is a ‘C U Next Tuesday'” in massive letters whenever he graces us with his presence – although I believe that this is valid comment that every child should read and understand.

  22. Im not sure which is more offending, ‘C-U-Nxt-Tues’ or ‘Mike Dean’ – they should publish a health warning in the programme when he is refereeing.

    Agree that children should be education from an early age, so perhaps on this occasion it would be acceptable 😛

  23. I think it is a well deserved thing that Tony has got the chance to meet Gazidis and exchange thoughts about Arsenal and the supporters.
    Great job Tony and I hope that the history of Arsenal gets what it deserves. And for those who are not interested in the history of Arsenal I can only tell them that it is like when you get married. You have to take your partner with the good things but also with the bad things, with his/her present, past and future. I take the Arsenal with all this in good and bad times. And my support doesn’t turn bigger when we win trophies or when we don’t win them.

  24. and off topic: Lanz and 9jagunner, I also read the post on Le Grove on Spahic and this was what you could call a typical form of desinformation from their part.
    I have checked the French internet sites and they were full of praise for him. I then checked my contact in Bosnia and in Bosnia Spahic is regarded as the most important player in the Bosnian team (mr. 50 %) and the fact that they did not get to the world cup was because of the fact that Spahic was banned from playing and so they lost it against Portugal at the end.

  25. Did Mr. Gazidis say anything about the new season, his expectations??? I like this kind of interaction, it forms a bond between the people who run the club n those who support it!!

  26. It seems to me that there are two types of Arsenal supporter:

    1) Those that lived Fever Pitch

    2) Those that were born post-Fever Pitch

    I fall into category 1 and remember when we didn’t win things for years on end and climbing to 13th in the table made me wet my pants with excitement. I also learned how to swear (and with some venom) at a young age thanks to football.

    One of the main problems with Wenger is that he has brought a lot of success to the club and the younger fans have grown to expect trophy after trophy and a couple of “world class” signings each season. Personally, I don’t want this. I want us to have a few lean years so that when we win something it is memorable. A Chelsea supporting friend has given up his season ticket because he is fed up with expectation of the team having to win each game otherwise it is the biggest disaster the club has ever faced.

    Wenger has also suffered with not being able to replace The Invincibles. That team was a one-off. You can’t keep churning out teams like that. Alex Ferguson’s youth policy has been fabled for many years. BUT when you look at it, he had two years when the youth team produced about 5 or 6 great players but nothing since.

    Sometimes things get skewed by the media and people’s perception. This is real life, not Championship Manager 2011.

    Finally, a question for those questioning Jay Simpson possibly leaving when he hasn’t been given a chance. How many other English players in a similar situation have gone on to set the Premier League on fire? If he ain’t good enough he ain’t good enough.

  27. Hi all,

    You wont find a more optimistic Gooner than me. End of. I welcome the approach Mr Gazidis has take both in making the club more accessible to the supporters through meetings mentioned here as well as properly commercialising the asset the club holds in its brand. Visit anywhere in the world and you will see our shirt. We need to more profoundly capitalise on this and I am confident that Gazidis and co are on the road to doing this very well.

    That said, I think we are a little harsh on Apek here. It is absolutely fair to say that building the Emirates affecting the club on/off the pitch and compelled Arsene trust in younger players. We are now at the end of that process where I believe that we will see the fruits of his labours arrive in the form of trophies.

    What Apek said is actually what Wenger largely thinks too. Our recent signings Arshavin, Vermaelen, Chamakh and Koscielny show that the club is now moving into the stage where the young talent (Clichy, Cesc, Song, Diaby, Nasri, Bendtner) is complemented proven mid-career footballers who can offer something new. Indeed, in losing Silvestre, Gallas, Senderos and Campbell it is a very fair argument that A) Arsenal actually got a lot younger this summer and B) We may need to address lost experience.

    I cant stand the doomers. I spotted the nonsense about Saphic on Le Grove too. That lot are much too ready to listen and follow the anti-Arsenal media (Sly Sports, BBC hotsp*r). I really appreciate a considered blog like this one, a blog prepared to champion the frankly fantastic stewardship of our great club.

    But perhaps we are also too quick to attack when we sense a doomer perspective?

  28. Good to be a goonah – you are absolutely right. The two sides, optimistic and pessimistic, have become terribly isolated of one another. It is a real problem with the information age. One can see it in politics and almost every other area as well. Modern technology has provided so many avenues for people to spout opinion (and we must all remember that it is only opinion, it is not informed or intelligent comment most of the time, merely opinion) and yet people tend to follow the “herd” mentality, choosing to gravitate towards one extreme or another rather than hanging out in the middle, choosing neither one extreme nor the other.

    The fact is that any extreme is bad, and is also wrong 99% of the time. The only reason I prefer hanging out in the optimist extreme (I always try to be a moderate and realist in everything I do) is that the optimists at least tend to have a sense of humour about things and tend to accept that IT IS ONLY FOOTBALL FOR GODS SAKE!!!!!! It is not the end of the world or a personal insult if Arsenal dont win, something that the pessimists tend to forget most of the time. The optimists also tend to remember that no team can win all the time, and that there is no “Championship Manager”-type solution to winning. It just tends to be much more pleasant and agreeable.

    But you are still right, we should ALL be more accepting of one another, but when you see the same old argument (we need to buy, buy, buy “world-class” players or This is Arsenal, we deserve better) spouted again and again even when the thread has nothing to with that topic, then it does become highly irritating and I think most of us have at one time or another unloaded on someone who regurgitated the same old, unoriginal party-line. I just wish more people would think for themselves and present original comment rather than the same old-same old.

  29. Paul C – I think the issue has one other element. When certain web sites started to change readers comments, and to delete any comments that did not agree with their standard view, it changed the world of debate. When some supporters of the anti-Arsenal views started to bombard sites such as ours with posts that were copies of posts on other sites, and when they set up debates with themselves (the same person posting several times over under different names, commenting on his own earlier posts) that changes it again.

    How are we to deal with that? Do we adopt the methodology of the anti-Arsenal sites just to protect ourselves? Does that not reduce us to their level?

  30. Tony – I think you handle it the right way. Let people post whatever they want and leave it to the “regulars” to handle the debate. Personally I find the presence of the occasional “rant” very amusing when it is interspersed with much of the very intelligent and insightful comment on this blog. It just brings the lack of originality and perspective of the “rants” so much more to the fore.

    By the way, earlier this summer I called you out on a couple of occasions about Barca’s debt. I didnt want to see you report something that had not been verified, and at that time something that was actually negated by Barca’s accounts. I honestly didnt think Barca would fudge their accounts to that extent. I really didnt.

    I was wrong. Badly wrong. I admit that. Nothing Barca do would surprise me anymore. They are completely devoid of class and principles.

  31. I have a large scale expensive idea for the ‘Arsenalisation’ of Ashburton Grove. Have you ever seen the artists impressions of the Roman collesium with the statues of Emperors and gladiators wrapped around the outside why dont we do something similar? If you look at the stadium the level with the Emirates stadium lettering looks suitable(it might not be im not an architect or engineer) if we bult housing units for a series of trophies instead of just 1 or 3 as is often suggested we could have a very high number of statues including key figures in the club from every era from Danskin to Wenger and also some key players record holders like David O Leary and Thierry Henry. It could end up being very cheesy but if designed correctly and with fan input on who should be immortalised it could be a very unique and inspiring feature. It could be done over a number oy years as it would be a huge project. I also like EAC3’s raffle prize idea I would certainly buy a ticket for that

  32. Hi Tony,
    About making the Emirates a better place. Why don’t we have a gold plated cannon inside the stadium? I mean a big, mean looking, shiny cannon. Just to let the away supporters know that they are inside the home of the Arsenal. It could also become iconic for our players when they score a goal. It should be kept in one of the corners consisting of the home supporters. It could have a small platform below it where plays can climb unto the platform after scoring a goal. I know this sounds outlandish but these images have been flashing inside my head. I may also have not been able to portray what my image looks like but English is not my first language and I can’t find better words to explain how the thing is.
    And I don’t think it would cost a lot because after all it won’t be 24carats gold. Just gold plated which the club can surely afford.
    I hope I have been able to make sense of what I thought would look smashing. And it would surely be an icon within the stadium.

  33. Tony – Please do me a favour next time you meet with Ivan. Point out to him that Arsenal are losing a fortune in Beverage sales. They are simply to slow in serving people. I sat in club level for both days of the Emirates cup and it was shocking how long it took to serve people. It’s much the same during league matches in the upper and lower tiers. At half time you have 15 minutes to use the gents, buy a drink and or food and consume them. Unless you leave your seat early, and no one wants that you have no chance unless you miss the start of the 2nd half. There is constant criticism of empty seats 5 minutes before and after half time, these people are easy to find they’re stuck in a queue for a beer and a hot dog.

  34. I am glad that the club are reaching out and listening to sensible voices. I like the Arsenalisation project proposals and plan to make time to do the tour soon.

    Aq187 and Iceman pessimistic comments are completely boring and don’t really add anything in terms of debate. How inappropriate on a scale of 1 -10 would it be to help them get a grip of reality like this?

  35. Marc. Absolutely spot on. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to down my beer in a 30 second frenzy having waiting the WHOLE 15 minutes to buy one.

    Its really quite simple. Dozens of huge buckets of ice. Beer. Attendants. Easy access to change. Done

  36. In club level they spend the entire first half pouring beer and set them up on tables – you just run in and help yourself… when the second half whistle blows they pour what’s left over down the sink.

    Alas they didn’t do this for the Emirates Cup – which was a shame.

    How the other half live eh!

    I’ll second that – the queue to get a brew at half time in the basement is terrible… not so bad in the upper levels – I sometimes run up the stairs to get served quicker.

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