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It’s been a whole day since Arsenal won anything, surely it’s time for Wenger to go

By Tony Attwood

For those of us with the good fortune to be there, it was something special, and by and large the day was a fair example of just where football support has got to

On Saturday morning I turned on BBC Five Live – nothing something I do often at the weekend as I do find there is something quite scarily odd about the way they are treating football at the moment.

But it was Cup Final Day, so I tried them again.  And what did I find?  An interview with some Hull fans getting ready to travel to London.  Fair enough.  And then the announcement came “well, we had better put some Arsenal balance into this…” and on comes one of the AST hierarchy whose main point seemed to be that if Arsenal were to lose today Wenger had to go.  Negative, negative, negative.

And, apart from the obvious fact that this was not a balancing interview, there was the wonderment that I had as to whether AST and their fellow-travellers had been saying that before the games with Liverpool, Tottenham and Everton in the FA Cup.  Were they, round by round, demanding Wenger should leave if we didn’t progress?

It is the ultimate “one defeat and you are out” approach.

I don’t know if that’s where they are because I stopped following their strange attitude a year or more back, but it makes you think.  (About what I am not sure, but it does make me think about something).

Yesterday itself was of course glorious, although the fact that the Arsenal nominated pubs were charging us £5 each to go in (and that’s before we ordered a round) was annoying in the extreme.  We went to Watkin’s Folly, and it is a pub utterly and totally to be avoided at all costs.

But it did have one wonderful moment.  We had the rather silly, “Stand up if you hate Tottenham” song, and lots of people did as they were told (although not the Untold section of the pub) but then there was a second verse, “Sit down if you hate Tottenham” and those without seats sat on the floor.  A nice moment which got a long round of applause.

As for Arsenal – quite rightly, the biggest cheers of all as far as I heard, were for Arsene Wenger (a massive cheer for him – and an extra one when the players threw him up in the air), Aaron Ramsey and the pairing of Koscielny and Mert got the other biggest cheers at the end.   Those last two look so happy to be playing alongside each other it reminds us all surely of other pairings in the past.  A shame that Sagna doesn’t want to be part of the defence any more but I would think most full backs in the country would want to be part of this team.

And the fans?

After the game, of course, everyone was really having a wonderful time, and that long interrupted trudge up Wembley Way to the underground station had all the songs.  Three of us even did the Kos song – (“He wants his own song, he wants his own song, Laurent Koscielny, he wants his own song”) but I think we have to do some more educating on that for it to take off.

But the Arsenal support between the first goal for Hull and the Cazorla free kick was terrible.  There was moaning, abuse, derision, etc etc – at least in the £80 seats.  OK, no one got up and walked out – but at the time when our team needed its support, it got precious little.  Maybe it was different behind the goal, but above the half way line, no, it was awful.

Support to me is not what you give when your team has given you something.  it is what you give all the time, unconditionally.  But not, it seems, with part of Arsenal.

As it was, Arsenal lifted themselves, we didn’t do it – and that lift came from Santi’s free kick.  From that moment on, the psychological position was reversed.  It felt that we were in the ascendency even though we were a goal down.  And gradually the game changed – or that’s how it seemed.

The AAA have already prepared the ground for this unwanted eventuality however.  “Is the FA Cup really all we should be challenging for?” I have already heard their spokes-beings ask on radio phone ins.  Well, as Lois (chair of AISA) said on Five Live last night, we were the best team in 2013, in terms of points, and now all we have to do is replicate that through next season, rather than a calender year.

So where are we now?

Arsenal and Man U have both won the Cup 11 times.  The difference is, we last won it in 2014.  The last won it in 2004.  We’ve both been runners’ up 7 times – making 18 cup finals each – way ahead of the chasing pack.

George Ramsey is the manager who has won the FA Cup the most – six times with Villa between 1887 and 1920.  On five times there are two names, Arsene Wenger and Alex F Word.  Mr Wenger is the only (yes the only) Arsenal manager to have won the cup more than once.  Indeed in the whole history of the cup only 19 managers have won it more than once.

One of those was not Terry Neill, who won it once with Arsenal, and gave a disgraceful interview at half time.  This is the Terry Neill who holds the record as a manager for the most consecutive league defeats of an Arsenal team ever, and losing Cup Finals to such luminaries as Ipswich Town and WHU.  Still he did lead us to a win over Man U 3-2 with a goal in the last couple of minutes, so maybe he can be partially forgiven.

Andrew, Drew and I, three of your correspondents on this site, left the ground happy, and Drew even started to reconsider his determination not to come to the Community Shield match as we drove back to Northampton.  Walter showed in his texts to the three of us that his knowledge of the vernacular is improving, although I am not sure the ability to swear in five languages should be on one’s CV.

We had fun, we supported, we did our bit, we shared in the joy.   It’s going to take a while to come down.

Our Cup Final posts

 

 

104 comments to It’s been a whole day since Arsenal won anything, surely it’s time for Wenger to go

  • jambug

    Tony,

    Glad you had a great day.

    Shame about the Pub and the fans behind you but alas that is what has happened to so many of our once wonderful fans. Sad, because as you rightly say it’s easy to be a ‘Fan’ when things go well but what you really need are ‘Supporters’ when things aren’t going so well.

  • Rupert Cook

    Terry Neil was an average manager although I’m sure you were supporting him at the time.:)

    But knocking that Ipswich team is a bit poor. They were quite good back then. Shouldn’t have lost to Wham though.

    Glad you enjoyed the win Tony despite the fact you were so scathing about the FA Cup a few months back. Strange how a trophy changes things.

  • dan

    @tony

    So very true, however, I’m hearing the brewing of the new monkey we could carry if it should catch wind, “1 trophy in 9 years.”

  • malaysiangooner

    espn piece sums up how media have been treating arsenal, even when we win. http://www.espnfc.com/blog/_/name/thematch/id/2934?cc=4716

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    “Specialist in failure, we know what we are!we know what we are!..specialists in failure we know what we are”!
    Average Wenger out! Stewart Robson and the Gunnersaurus in!
    COYG!Aha and Amen!

  • Wengerson

    @ AAA Cook

    A few months ago you were scathing about Arsene, and that he should leave if he doesn’t win a trophy this season. Well he won. What are you still doing here?

    Strange how a trophy doesn’t change anything.

  • jambug

    Wengerson

    Thanks for saving me the bother 🙂

  • Sammy The Snake

    Nice to see you had a great day Tony, I think all Gooners had a wonderful & exciting time yesterday.

    And thank you for reminding me of the community shield! That’s an added bonus.

  • Sir Cecil

    Congratulations to Arsenal! For their first trophy in nine years, they have taken over from WIGAN as FA Cup holders. A truly glorious achievement.
    It was odd though, to see Mr. Wenger dancing about, wallowing in champagne. After all, hasn’t he always said, after thrashings by Manchester City and Chelsea, that the playing field isn’t level and that the superior spending power of the other clubs is an excuse Arsenal’s failings?
    Yet when Arsenal’s wealth is pitted against the relative paupers of Hull, we hear no wailing from the losers about the fact Arsenal has spent huge amounts more on players. In Wenger’s eyes, the trophy he’s eventually won is not belittled by the fact that he can buy £40m players and Hull can’t. He seemed quite happy about playing paupers at Wembley. Reveling in it! Sad hypocrite.

  • jambug

    Sir Cecil

    What are you on about?

  • bjtgooner

    Tony, I agree with you about the media coverage pre match yesterday, it was openly biased against Arsenal – and not just the BBC.

    But there was one pleasant aspect of yesterday morning for some gooners who could not get to Wembley/Emirates – as many of us took our wives around the supermarkets to assist with w/e shopping – those wearing Arsenal shirts, identifying their allegiance, made a lot of new friends – hopefully many of these friendships will be maintained.

  • Rupert Cook

    @Wengerson, again you talk crap. I said I thought it was time for a new manager. I never said anything about him having to win a trophy. Go away Spurs troll.

  • Shard

    Interesting about the fans moaning, because while watching it seemed that although the Arsenal fans quietened down a bit after the second goal, they were cheering again in a few minutes. It’s not normal for TV to enhance Arsenal fans’ volume, so maybe it was just where you were sitting Tony?

    The Media narrative is just so predictable. Oh Arsenal struggled to beat Hull and got lucky with the corner. No mention of 4… that’s 4… penalties not awarded to Arsenal. And what can you say about people who are so entrenched in being negative while claiming to be Arsenal fans that they’ve changed their tune from ‘trroooowwwfeeeess’ to, ‘FA Cup only papers over the cracks’, ‘it’s been an average season’ etc etc.

    Fuck them. I’m not even sorry for the language.

    This is Arsenal’s moment. It was our destiny, our time to win that cup. Not even the referee could stop us there. We are going to enjoy this.

    And well done to Arsene Wenger. He was brilliant yesterday. Got his substitutions spot on. Knew just what to say to the team at half time, and for all he has given to us and yet is unfairly subjected to, he absolutely deserved the triumph.

  • bjtgooner

    Another YAAAP from the BBCC (boring boring corrosive cook).

  • Sir Cecil

    I don’t know anyone who even watched the FA Cup Final. The Barcelona v Athletico game was the one everyone I know was watching, myself included. I mean seriously folks, do you believe anyone with more than a passing interest in football would prefer to watch a team playing Hull, rather than Barca v Athletico? To be honest, Arsenal’s win was of zero interest to the world beyond the confines of Wembley.

  • bjtgooner

    Cecil.

    If the Arsenal match is of no interest – and you didn’t watch it – why the fuck are you here?

  • Shard

    bjtgooner

    He’s already answered that in the first four words of his 8.50..

    He doesn’t know anyone..Poor thing.

  • Sammy The Snake

    Interestingly, no one is talking about the missed penalties in the game, but Metro has an article on:

    Arsenal ‘get away with murder’ to draw level in the cup final
    Laurent Koscielny dragged Arsenal level from a corner that should never have been in the FA Cup final at Wembley this afternoon…

    What mother f#@%&*#@!!!

  • bjtgooner

    For all those who cannot get to the Emirates this morning, the victory parade is being shown on Arsenal Player.

  • Tony Attwood

    Sir Cecil

    Arsenal’s wealth has come about from their own business activity – not from the donations of another at least since 1910.

    In 1910 the club went bust, and Henry Norris paid off all the debts before risking much of his own wealth in building the Highbury stadium – money that he then recovered from the loan he gave to the club.

    Since then Arsenal have been self-sustaining, and through their own economic industry have got to the position financially which allows them to buy.

    Your comments have no relationship to reality.
    But I do note that in your earlier comment you said that you were not watching the cup final, and seemingly you and your friends have no interest in Arsenal, so at least we won’t be bothered by your ill informed commentary from now on.

  • Shard

    Just checking out all the post match interviews with the players, and they all look so tired. I’m so proud of the effort, both physical and mental, they put in to win that trophy. Well done guys. Thank you.

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    I say, theres clucking and feathers from the Coop over here this morning.Begone ye chickens!

  • bc

    Arsenal wenger to sign a new contract as director of football with Frank De boer and Dennis bergkamp coming in. The non flying dutchman will also manage the under 21s. Thierry Henry and Jens lehmann will also join, whilst Marc Overmars will replace David court and work alongside Andreas jonker.

    Wenger has seen the need for new young coaches with fresh ideas.

  • nicky

    When, on paper, there is a wide gulf between teams, you will never see a classic contest. And that is what happened yesterday.
    The Charity Shield could be a real showpiece. City will be away and Arsenal’s record away from the Emirates is one to be feared.

  • Shard

    bc

    Did your vision also happen to mention the year this happens in? Because it’s not going to be 2014.

  • Jax

    Tony & Walter
    You were correct in your reservations about Probert. Two technical errors (which led to goals), although the linesman on that side was also to blame on these, and at least four penalty calls of which two were certainties. Also slow to bring out the cards. He said on Fridays BBC Points West that he wanted to handle this like a normal Saturday or Tuesday night league match. Not sure what he had in mind.

  • AL

    Some people really are tw*ts, you know who you are.

    The media are trying to find ways of painting this as an unjustified win by Arsenal, well who cares what the fuckwits think. They should all be ashamed of not rounding on one of the worst refereeing performances that’s been witnessed on a football pitch in memory. To fail to award one penalty is forgivable, two perhaps one could say the official is having a bad day, three you’ve got to be joking, but four? I mean four (4)??? Is that even possible? I didn’t think it was but it happened yesterday, and at least 3 were stonewallers. I got a text from a colleague in Africa saying everyone who was where they were watching from couldn’t believe what they were all seeing. And the media don’t even find it worth mentioning. Choosing instead to focus on a wrongly awarded corner, they should all hang their heads in shame.

  • Shard

    Hahaha..Wenger’s reaction post match..

    One of the questions asked was.

    “And in terms of the wait for a trophy. There’s been so much talk about that, it’s gone on for so long, it’s lovely to put that to bed.”

    Wenger: (With a smile) “It’s lovely to force people to be a bit more creative now, but I trust they will be.”

  • jambug

    Rupert Cook

    “Glad you enjoyed the win Tony despite the fact you were so scathing about the FA Cup a few months back. Strange how a trophy changes things.”

    Post match interview with Tom Huddlestone

    “……..our main priority was staying in the Premier League….when we look back at this season in a few days time I’m sure we will see it as a success…”

    And that is the reality of modern football, for the players and the Club at least.

    You don’t get a ‘Trophy’ for staying up in the same way you don’t get a ‘Trophy’ for finishing fourth.

    My point is, as much as I, and Tony, and Millions of other Gooners where jumping around like headless chickens yesterday. As much as we will still be buzzing this morning. The fact that we will still be buzzing tomorrow, indeed for the foreseeable, my opinion has not changed…SECURING CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FOOTBALL IS/WAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE MORE INPORTANT.

    The only thing that made winning the FA Cup this year particularly important was the ‘nine years’ monkey on the back issue.

    But now that has gone, make no mistake the priorities next season will again be:

    Premiership

    Champions League

    TOP FOUR

    FA Cup

    C1C

    I wasn’t ‘scathing’ about the FA Cup a few Months ago and I doubt Tony was either.

    Just knowledgeable enough to understand the realities, and more importantly, the priorities of the modern game.

    But despite all that it doesn’t lessen the elation of celebrating a ‘real’ Trophy as opposed to that phony fourth place one I’m usually celebrating at this time of the year 😉

  • Shard,

    One of the many reasons why I love that man. He is a masterful and quick witted speaker. Great response!

    Of course, the rat bastards (a.k.a. the moronic media) will find other creative ways to carry on the stupid talking point.

  • Rupert Cook

    @jambug, Tony didn’t seem to care less about the cup, that’s what he wrote on here. Still let him be happy. We all are.

    I don’t know why it has to be a choice anyway, fourth or FA Cup. The minimum to be expected should be both. (Not expecting to win the cup every year obviously).

    As for Huddlestone. what do you think he’d say? He’d remember a cup final win all his life. Staying up with Hull doesn’t compare. It’s not as if they were going down anyway. Those are face-saving comments. If I were a Wigan fan I’d take that FA Cup win last year over staying up.

    Can you seriously tell me you celebrated fourth as much as winning the cup? Just bizarre. And before you go on about CL (the bloated version of the UEFA Cup) I’m not bothered about fourth, I want first!! 🙂

    What a great year so far: A bearded woman wins Eurovision, Athletico and St. Johnstone win trophies and ARSENAL WIN THE FA CUP.

  • jambug

    The Mail on Sunday

    Chief football writer, Rob Draper:

    In a 2 page spread this is all we get relating to 4 disgraceful penalty decisions.

    “……penalty appeals came and went….”

    And that was it.

    Can you imagine the outrage if it was the other way round. Doesn’t bear thinking about.

  • nicky

    @Jambug,
    Agree entirely.
    Despite the euphoria over winning the FA Cup, Arsenal’s real achievement was qualifying for the CL next season.
    The only betterment would be finishing 3rd or 2nd or winning the EPL itself.
    Your order of precedence is Arsene’s own 😉

  • Jax

    A bit scary in those last few minutes. Aluko’s big sister could show him how to score those angled goals (as she did last week against Ukraine). Very good tactically to hold Jack & Rosicky back ’till late in extra time.

  • Rupert Cook

    @nicky, I despair.

  • Rupert Cook

    @jax where did you see the final?
    Remember those old times in your flat watching finals?

  • jambug,

    I frequently talk about intellectual midgets coming on here to play the “only adult in the room” and apart from Tom, none other does it more that Rupert. His reasoning for questioning why Tony is happy after saying the FA is not what it used to be and hence comes 4th behind the PL, CL and 4th place is disingenuous bull shit and verbose semantics at its worst. I care very little about the League Cup other than seeing our youngsters thrive in it but it will be idiotic for anyone to question my celebration if Arsenal win it.

    If a man will save his child first in a fire before saving his wife, does that mean that the man does not care about his wife? And if the wife also gets saved after the child has been saved, would the man deserve no praise and neither should he be joyful that his family is saved?

    Like you, next season the priorities for me will be:

    PL
    CL
    CL Qualification
    FA cup
    League cup

    And yes, if we only win the League cup and miss out on my more preferred 4, it will still be idiotic for anyone to question my celebration.

  • Jax

    Rupert
    I was at home, but regularly pestered by a West Ham supporting neighbour who kept phoning me with “did you see that” stuff. The problem was that I’d been using the pause button so was watching delayed play & he already new the result. Wanker (not you, him). Yeah those cup finals were good. I celebrated with Spurs, West Ham & QPR fans at my club last night.

  • Rupert Cook

    @Jax, I notice the usual morons have surfaced. I wound them up with mentioning our false corner and they bit. We should have had three penalties but that’s ok, didn’t need them anyway.

    I was at James Hunt’s old house in Wimbledon. Our friends moved in last month. Massive place with a vast garden. Not one Arsenal fan there but a Liverpool fan was very nice and was genuinely happy I was so pleased with our triumph. Kudos to him. I wonder if James Hunt supported Arsenal.

  • nicky

    @Rupert Cook,
    In total amazement, I note your surprise that any Arsenal supporter could prefer qualifying for the CL over winning the FA Cup.
    Think about it just for a moment. Over 38 games home and away, in probably the toughest league in the World, you have to finish 4th or better.
    In the FA Cup, the luck of the draw is paramount. Arsenal were drawn at home in the early stages and throughout the competition never had to leave London.
    The financial benefits of playing in the CL are considerable and have a direct influence on signings and therefore the future prosperity of our great Club.
    Meanwhile, at the Emirates my Gran (who cleans there) has an extra piece of silverware to polish.

  • Jax

    Rupert, people get so pumped up with righteous indignation that they’re likely to self explode.

  • Jax

    Rupert, there’s enough James Hunt’s on here already without adding to them

  • Gooner S

    @Tony

    And that is why I would never join the AST. Tim Payton erks me. I question his motives.

    Until we scored our first, in the block where is was sitting, I didn’t hear any major moaning,the opposite actually, in fact there was quite a few (me included) up on our feet cheering the team on. That said I do have a hearing problem (I’m not joking) where in crowds I lose the definition on sound so I couldn’t hear properly Terry Neil at half time. I’m guessing I wouldn’t have wanted to hear it anyway.

    I’m looking forward to @Walters referee report. Some of the decisions looked very poor to me. I’m not sure if they showed it on TV but after Hull City’s second goal Steve Bould was down by the linesman giving him a piece of his mind and had to be shown back to his seat by the fourth official.

    Anyway, I have a big grin on my face today. Nothing can upset me today.

  • Rupert Cook

    @nicky, I’m not impressed with finishing fourth though I understand your reasoning. First is what counts. In the league we should be finishing fourth at a minimum with our resources. Yes Chelsea and City have more financial power, probably Manu too but after those teams we have no financial equals.

  • finsbury

    There’s a reason why up until the early hours Arsenal fans were singing

    “There were ten Tottenham points in the gap…”

    And repeat.

    Again.

    And again.

    I don’t think the disingenuous and proven liars above would like to admit that on cup final day the arsenal fans were singing songs celebrating coming fourth. A couple of years ago. Then again, Richmond is down near that bus stop Fulham isn’t it?

    You are not going to be able hear the Blackstock Rd from the depths of your Arsenal.

  • Gooner S

    @Shard @8.42

    You are spot on. The Arsenal crowd, on the whole, were brilliant yesterday including when we went 0 -2 down.

  • Gooner S

    I would like to add in what is a World Cup year Laurent Koscielny was fantastic yesterday but in particular, for his goal, he had no thoughts of the World Cup and of not getting injured. He could quite easily have been injured by the challenge from the Hull goalkeeper. Thank you Laurent.

  • finsbury

    Wonderful to walk around the new Arsenal Stadium after the return from Wemberlee last night.
    People in great spirits. A community out celebrating. Thank god the club never moved to Wembley.

    Probably the only people who had bad days were the Hull fans, the AAA, and perhaps the Arsenal groundsman. Alas he wouldn’t of been happy about the pitch invasion in N5 🙂

    Great pictures.

  • Rupert Cook

    @Jax, very good, ha,ha.

    @Nicky, also winning trophies is what players want. It’s something they aspire to, be it league or cups. It raises the profile of the club, it gains new supporters and gives belief to young supporters who are drawn to successful teams. No player is going to be celebrating a career where his team finished fourth every year and won nothing, that’s why players leave. The FA Cup final is a huge worldwide draw, nobody outside England gives two hoots about a team finishing fourth. Similarly a team that crumbles every year in the CL is soon forgotten, it’s winners that are remembered, feted and gain more fans and more financial muscle through advertising deals etc.

    Also winning an actual trophy gives some players a belief they hitherto lacked. Trophies are vital to a club of Arsenal’s stature, you only have to witness the negative media when we don’t win trophies, that maybe fine for a team like Stoke but not Arsenal where expectations are higher due to our celebrated history.

  • Shard

    Rupert

    We may not have needed the penalties in the end, but if we did, would you and others like you have conceded that those decisions had an effect on the result? I doubt it. You would mention it of course but brush it aside by saying what the REAL issue is the poor goals we conceded.

    And now who’s building up a false choice? If someone contends that 4th is more important they are correct. You might prefer to be Wigan and be relegated and win a trophy which you are then even more unlikely to win again. Some others might have the sense to realise that while a trophy would be good, getting relegated (from 4th) for a chance at winning it, is likely to result in less happiness in the medium run. You don’t have to agree, and no one celebrates fourth the same way as a trophy anyway. SO I don’t know why you’re coming up with this now.

    Anyway. Parade time.

  • There it is, I’ve got it. Jax is not sentient. He is Rupert Cook’s ventriloquist dummy that would often go rogue when his master is not around by posting sensible and non-inflammatory comments. But as soon as Rupert Cook gets here, Jax, who was getting along fine with everyone, suddenly starts parroting his master.

    Jax, the ventriloquist’s dummy!

  • Shard

    ALso, while players might love winning, they love getting paid even more. No CL, stadium debt, means less ability to pay. Hence players more likely to leave. However, with increased income that becomes less crucial. Still important though.

  • WalterBroeckx

    We moan to live, we live to moan.
    Well that goes for some.

    I live to celebrate, I celebrate live

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    Well said Walter, Im with you mate!

  • WalterBroeckx

    oh and you will have to wait a bit on my reports. I have been awake for 24 hours, slept 2,5 hours now, have to go to the house warming party of one of my sons very soon and will be falling asleep before it is over I’m afraid. 😉

    But man I feel great… 🙂

  • g

    It’s time for Arsene to go because he has had a great career as arsenal manager but he is now at a stage where he is no longer a long term prospect as manager for the club due to his age, the club have gone through a very difficult period and he has provided stability and this has lead us to where we are today, the FA CUP.

    Now, with the FA Cup victory it provides Arsene the chance to leave as a winner the way everyone wanted to remember him, and provides the initial stepping stone for a new manager coming in.

    Arsenal is a club that is stable and doesn’t change our manager every season (and thank god for that) so we need to continue this ethos and plan long term with our next manager, ensure a smooth transition and allow the next manager to plan for the next 5 years. In 5 years time Arsene will almost 70!

    Personally I think it is the right time to leave for Arsene and the right time for Arsenal. That doesn’t mean he wouldn’t do a reasonable job if he stayed but I personally think this is the time to start the next chapter which unfortunately Arsene can’t be part of long term.

    Perhaps Arsene should stay on next season on a rolling contract while the club find his long term replacement taking as long as they need to find them, Arsene can then step aside next season with everything perfectly in place.

  • Far East Gooner

    G

    So who replace arsene? David moyes?

    Who replace success with uncertainty ? Probably you are first one that I have known on earth!

  • bjtgooner

    Only imbecilic trolls BBCC (boring boring corrosive cook) and his Jaxie could be miserable today – only they could not celebrate – only they will not rejoice in our win.

  • Rupert Cook

    @Shard, really, you know that players love being paid more over trophies? What every single one? Whilst I contend that some do there are many that may put trophies before money. You have no idea.

    I wouldn’t brush the penalties aside because I think we should have had at least three, possibly four. Obviously that will have an effect on the game.

    I’ve stated quite logical reasons why fourth is not more important. Fact is you can’t really say what is more positive. If we win the league next year and the players say winning the FA Cup gave them the belief they hitherto lacked because it broke the trophy hoodoo you might feel differently.

  • Rupert Cook

    @bjtgooner, you’re an idiot. I’m very happy we won. I’ve said it on here. What I’m debating has got nothing to do about my levels of happiness.

  • bjtgooner

    @BBCC (boring boring corrosive cook)

    You sound bloody unhappy – but maybe assholes like you have to moan to be in your comfort zone.

  • Archie Andrews

    btjgooner
    I should explain that as I’ve been compared to a ventriloquists dummy (10.59) I’m reverting to type. Hope to return as the real Jax(i.e.)

  • Shard

    Rupert

    Of course it gives the players a lift and belief.. That is well established. What is also well established (maybe even more well established) is that the richest sides win more trophies. Why do you think that is? WHy do the highest paying clubs attract the best players?

    Give it up Rupert. No one is denying the absolute joy of victory just because they recognise that something else is more important for the club, especially during a certain period.

    Wigan did not win the league the next year did they? Arsenal might well go on and win the league next year, but it would have been a lot harder if it was without the CL money. What a trophy does is give tangible belief to what Wenger has been saying all along. That the team is good enough and has the strength to get over the line. Unlike what you seem to suggest, the trophy does not dismiss Wenger’s way of doing things. It is proof of concept and vindication for him. Hopefully it will give the players and new players more belief that the plan works because now there is tangible proof.

  • jax

    btjgooner
    Read my posts, I’ve been celebrating, said as much. Even took time to criticise Probert. In your usual way you just find negativity in the most positive places. Just read the posts old boy.

  • bjtgooner

    @Jax

    You have been encouraging your depressive pal in his efforts to dampen celebrations and indeed enjoying his confessed wind up.

    But, that will not work – everyone else is too happy to let you two trolls successfully spread your misery.

    Sometimes Jax you can produce reasonable comments, but when the BBCC turns up you resort to being his suppository.

  • Steve Vallins

    A friend of mine was at the game ( not going to name drop he ran Charlton and is now with Coventry ) he contacted me by text because he thought i was at the game he said the atmosphere at the Arsenal end was fantastic and he is a neutral

  • jax

    Come on bjt, we both know that Rupert needs no encouragement at all. He’s a wind up merchant all on his own, because he knows (like me) that he’s a magnate to you & maybe four or five others who will be on his case no matter what his opinion on anything Arsenal. You all just decided to target him (and to a lesser extent me). So he (and me) sling shit back and you all lose sight of the original (often harmless) comments, (look at my tin helmet one on the other thread) and do your “you said this and then you said that so you must be a troll who hates Arsenal” It never fails and you get your pyrrhic victories. The thing is you’re probably all quite sensible decent blokes (perhaps not all), but seem to get off on your collective bullying.

  • Alex

    Just awaken from a wild party.Thanks Arsene thanks the team without you i could not have such a lovely moment with friends.

    Unfortunately our discussion was dominated by the ref.

    I cannot believe what would be saying had we lost the game .
    Four clear penalities denied and no one here is saying anything or as much as should be discussed.
    I believe when things start settling a bit something has to be done clearly wth this kind of reffing.It doesn`t matter what sort of players will add on the coming months if the ref is hell bent to castigate us.

    Pathetic it is time the club has to do something meaningful about it.

  • jax

    Alex
    About the ref, read my comment at 9.25.am. I think that’s saying something, although I didn’t call him bent or anything.

  • bjtgooner

    @Jax

    I note you admit the BBCC is a wind up merchant – yet you still aid and abet him. A bit hypocritical there?

    Cut the crap about the BBCC being targeted or bullied – he is deliberately disruptive – you have admitted that – but you align yourself with him & then when it suits you try to pretend others are at fault for calling him out – you more than anyone need to “come on” – separate you comments from those of your depressive pal.

  • bjtgooner

    On a happier note than that provided by our resident wind up merchant, I have just been watching the reception the team received this morning – absolutely magnificent – the fans were great & everyone really enjoyed the occasion.

  • GoingGoingGooner

    optimist – We won the Cup…onwards and upwards!
    pessimist – We won the Cup…we should have won the league

    optimist – We finished 4th…now to build on this with the money we shall receive
    pessimist – We finished 4th…It’s not a trophy

    optimist – We have a new stadium and new commercial deals…fantastic achievement, now to start competing regularly with the rich boys
    pessimist – We have a new stadium and new commercial deals…Spend the F***ing money

    optimist – Arsene Wenger is our manager…best manager in our history, won so many trophies, can’t wait for next year
    pessimist – Arsene Wenger is our manager…(crickets)

  • jax

    bjtgooner
    You’ll notice that I rarely support any of Rupert’s posts, as I mostly don’t agree with him (he’ll tell you himself) and he doesn’t need my support anyway. What I usually do, and I’ve done it with other commenters on here also, is make a joke about the shit he’s getting slung his way. This is what really pisses you and to an even greater extent bootoomee. Just go back over the last few days & take a look. Have a look at the other thread and see how you came in to support Bootoomee when he completely misunderstood the harmless tin helmet joke & covered up by getting abusive. Why do you think he did that? Because he’s a big Untold insider bully boy and you do what you’re accusing me of by supporting hime. By the way, neither of us are complaining that we’re being bullied, but I see it for what it is.

  • bob

    The sight of his players, our lads, tossing Arsene up and up with such joy, soaking in champagne, shirt out of pants as he walks to shake the hands of those “betters” who don’t hold a candle to him; so truly deserved after so much struggle and soooo much stick, it all has still taken my breath away with tears of joy. Truly moving and truly deserved. Joy to this world of gooners of all stripes 🙂

  • bjtgooner

    @Jax

    Why don’t you make a joke about the shit the BBCC is slinging in the first place – rather than supporting him with your jokes and then pretending you are misunderstood?

  • AL

    jambug 9:57
    Spot on. Imagine, Matt Jarvis gets the slightest of touches from Sagna and doesn’t go down, and we hear about it for weeks. We are denied four clear penalties in a cup final, and hardly a mention.

  • Yassin

    @Al,

    Again had to be said, total respect and fair play to Jarvis, for not cheating and going down, although no one would have known he was diving had he went down. Those players should be put on headlines as one of the most honest players to follow by the kids, not the ones already there.

  • AL

    Absolutely true that, Yassin. Yet he was castigated for his honesty by ex professionals like Gary Neville, Jamie redknap, etc. Shocking.

  • LRV

    Common everyone; Untolders and wind up merchants alike. Let’s enjoy for now. Keep the wind up until Monday at least. We are entitled to some respite and moments of joy at least; one that is free of any pessimism or negativity.

    Did anyone notice what was revealed from the parade coverage today? Arsene had done his home work on the Hull goalkeeper and advised Cazorla to play the free kick to the goalkeepers left because he (the goalkeeper) is not so good diving to his left as he is diving to the right. How can some people claim that Arsene doesn’t do tactics?

  • Gord

    It looks like Jenkinson missed the parade. He went to Wales to play for U21’s.

    http://www.thefa.com/news/england/under-21/2014/may/carl-jenkinson-joins-under-21s-squad-180514

    > “Of course it meant missing the victory parade, but hopefully there will be plenty more of those to come in the future.

  • Gord

    No articles admitting to incompetent officiating at the final.

    Maybe later today?

    COYG!

  • TommieGun

    Rupert,

    Well I’ll tell you how it looks like from here (from someone who stood up for freedom of speech, for people who did not always went with the usual line, including you) – you are out of line.

    It’s one thing to have a different opinion, and to express it. I’m all for that.

    It’s completly different to make provocative posts just to get a reaction. There is no “opinion” here, you are just trying to get attention (at best). What’s your point?

    And it’s a whole new level of being a DICK to do it after the team winning the FA cup. It’s like going to someone’s house after their parent had died of cancer and tell a cancer joke. Gee, great timing shitforbrains.

    To be honest, I don’t believe you when you said you were just “winding us up”, but I can’t prove it so tough shit for me.

    However, it shows that your “opinion” is not important. You are a little attention whore, and guess what: you won. You got your attention.

    You can rejoice in that, we shall rejoice in WINNING THE FA CUP !!!!!

  • sven

    Why do it the easy way when you can give everyone a heart attack en route. Hull turned up yesterday and meant business, it’s a pity some of the Arsenal players didn’t. Having said that we wouldn’t have it any other way and this is the reason we love the club. I’m chuffed to bits to finally break this 9 year bollocks. We now need to go have a good transfer window and can start by offering Sagna the money and contract he deserves! Losing him would be a step backwards. For now I need to get rid of this hangover, as I suppose most of us do this morning. Up the Gunners!

  • menace

    While queuing to enter the Emirates I met an AAA who preferred to have a debt ridden club with trophies rather than a stable club with 4th places. He was happy to sit a paid for stadium but wanted Wenger out. I’m sorry but I told him to support Manchester City or the FA because they buy and run trophies respectively. Arsenal play to win in spite of unfair bias. I hope the AAA saw the penalties that were ignored by the PGMOL excuse for sighted professional officials.

    It is sad when the likes of cook vomit their opinions without any real insight of the real playing field.

  • Wengerson

    @ AAA Cook

    “…winning trophies is what players want.”
    – There I was, thinking they want more money…

    “It raises the profile of the club, it gains new supporters and gives belief to young supporters who are drawn to successful teams.”
    – Actually, Arsenal is a successful club, and its profile is quite high. But you can believe what you want.

    “… No player is going to be celebrating a career where his team finished fourth every year and won nothing, that’s why players leave.”
    – I guess there won’t be any player leaving us this season then… Oh, and Ozil joined us, as trophy-less as we were!

    “The FA Cup final is a huge worldwide draw, nobody outside England gives two hoots about a team finishing fourth.”
    – I do not reside in England, or Europe for that matter, and I give a lot of hoots about this club.

    “… it’s winners that are remembered, feted and gain more fans and more financial muscle through advertising deals etc.”
    – I guess Puma must have predicted that we will win this trophy, with the new “deal”?

    “…winning an actual trophy gives some players a belief they hitherto lacked.”
    – Everyone in the current squad has never won a trophy at Arsenal. So where did they get the belief to actually come back from 2 goals down, and win it?

    “… you only have to witness the negative media when we don’t win trophies,”
    – The media(and you!) is still negative after last night’s victory! Claiming we got away with murder with the corner…

  • finsbury

    Menace:

    “Untold Arsenal: Arsenal News; Supporting the club, the players and the manager”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

    “In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.”

    Or, we could just use our sense of smell.

  • GoingGoingGooner

    Apparently Mark Halsey (in the Sun) thinks Probert did a good job…scandalous.

  • menace

    Mark Halsey bless you and may your understanding of officiating improve as you grow older. You do ot understand the simple language in which the Laws of this game is written. Probert is a cheat. He cheated the beautiful game of honesty and unbiased officiating.

    I challenge the FA to allow Managers to question officials 48 hours after the game in public with access to match replays. It will make for additional revenue on commercial TV and open up this can of worms called PGMOL.

  • menace

    ‘do ot’ do not

  • Gord

    I was getting Mark Halsey mixed up with Keith Hackett, who was the referee assignor before Mike Riley 😈 . Apparently Philip Don was the first assignor of referees in the EPL.

  • jambug

    During commentary even Andy Townsend said he would probably have given all 4 of the penalty appeals. Which is all fine and dandy, except despite this they didn’t mention one of them after the game or during the highlights show.

    An utter disgrace and embarrassment and absolute proof positive of media bias to back up refereeing bias.

    Having read on here the even more scandalous BT coverage I wouldn’t even watch it.

    As for Halsey saying Probert had a good game….Beyond shameful.

    But I knew it would happen.

    My wife reads the mail on Sunday and said they called us lucky.

    I pretty much know all the papers and radio shows today and tomorrow will call us lucky and completely ignore the penalties.

    Bumped into 2 neighbours today. Both congratulated me. Both called us lucky, citing the ‘dodgey’ corner. I just thanked them and walked on, my blood was boiling but I don’t want to fall out with neighbours over football, but it just shows how blind people can be when given the right encouragement.

    Honestly it is beyond belief that a refereeing performance that bad can not only be ignored but praised.

  • jambug

    Going by what others are saying it seems ITV where pretty fair in comparison. And to be honest during the game they where.

    As I say, calling all the penalty appeals pretty much as we do, and they didn’t make too much of a fuss about the corner.

    It was like, okay the ref missed it but it took them 4 replays to clear it up so they said it was an understandable mistake.

    BT sports, The BBC, as well as Talkshite and nearly all the papers.

    Shameful shameful shameful

  • bjtgooner

    I watched and recorded the match on ITV, but today watched the highlights on BT. The commentary on BT was very biased – they tried to smear us almost continuously.

    Unfortunately it looks as if the anti Arsenal media campaign is co-ordinated. If so that implies a lot of effort and money is involved.

  • dan

    jambug & bjtgooner

    Grand coming from the BBC, self imposed corporate tax bully’s pedophile haven covering up their sickening acts.

    Talkshite hired two sexiest twats whom were fired from sky, S. Collymore does one need to say anymore!

    BT sports, choker block of Z grade muggsmasher ex sport personalities just look at the panel, oh and they are choosey when it come to commemorating tragedies, demand justice for the Hillsborough victims but never mention Heysel.

  • Gunnerjoe

    Hugh mcllvanney in the Sunday times agreed in an artual that Arsenal should have had 3 penalties. Some journalist are doing there jobs and others just take the money from who ever pays them the most.

  • Gord

    It seems we are playing tag GGG.

    Some non-believer at the Daily Mail, actually wrote a reasonable article on the game. Wenger said quite a while ago (6 weeks?), that he would sign, but until pen is on paper, this twit doesn’t believe. Ignore the odd bit of non-belief, the article does a good job of describing the substitutions at half time of extra time.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2632173/Arsene-Wenger-reminded-genius-Wembley-vital-extra-time-substitution.html

    Martin Samuel is the clown writing. Maybe he will believe some time.

  • Gord

    @GGG

    Very nice article to read. From what I remember of historical football statistics, 2-0 is the most dangerous lead in football. Of the various descriptions of the game I’ve read via Google News or at Untold Arsenal, I would think people at Arsenal should read this one.

    “Ready to go underhand”, is he saying that Arsenal players would start diving?

    I never had a problem with Steve Bruce (father) having a player that was his son, Alex Bruce. Maybe it was because my own father was such a jerk.

    I didn’t think Podolski was rubbish.

    Koscielny’s ankle was trapped between the legs of the goaltender. I seen no planning for this, but that is what I think hurt Koscielny, not a crack on the shin.

    The author doesn’t understand Mertesacker’s stumble any better than I do. The author has never been a goaltender, and doesn’t understand that Fabianski HAD to come out. It was off by a small angle, but not inches. More than 1 foot.

    Arsenal has no grace?

    Wilshere is the 7th best midfielder for England going to Brazil? I presume 7th means last. Hull hates Wilshere for some reason.

    Hull has always played physical, and may probably for the unforseen future. The writer has no clue as to what is actually allowed in the game, and what is typically assumed in various places. Fair enough. Hull fans don’t like the kind of football Arsenal play.

    Ramsey not even a candidate for MoM? No explanation for why, or who was better.

  • NW

    PPl are playing down the FA cup achievement…

    I think they should stop insulting Arsenal and all the teams who played hard trying to get it back to their stadium.

    There are several cup matches but none as prestigious as FA cup. Why is it at the biggest stadium? Why do they put it on the last day of the whole season?

    When people talk about winning doubles, they only use it for CL+ EPL or EPL+ FA seldom other cups

    Before this victory many AAA or other fans were saying Arsenal should have gotten other cups then all of a sudden anything other than EPL or CL are failures.

    Stop moving the goalposts.

    This is the third biggest trophy for an English club behind CL and EPL. Done and settled.

  • Double canister

    Too many people share Rupert C’s ludicrous thinking that Arsenal didn’t need the penalties to be given, because we won anyway.
    1there were only 11 minutes of the 2nd period of extra time left!
    Most of us thought it was going to a shoot out.
    Probert is paid to do his job – apply the rules, not this shite game management the PGMOL this is their new remit for ‘brand England’ football.
    Probert made mistakes in our home game to Swansea, that went our way that night- so perhaps he was over-compensating on Saturday.

    Conceding 2 goals early should be the real concern, as there is a worrying pattern to it.

  • Micheal Ram

    After watching the game, I humped Madam Cecil. She was inept as Barcelona at home…

  • Micheal Ram

    After the GAME, I humped Madam Cecil at her place. She was inept as Barcelona at home. Damn, waste of s****

  • Gord

    The CBC (Canadian “equivalent” of BBC) is running an article, which summarises an analysis of player performance in ice hockey done by a group at UBC. There appears to be a link within that article, to the UBC research.

    Analysis When NHL players peak: Hockey metrics

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/when-nhl-players-peak-hockey-metrics-1.2646054

  • Micko

    I was in block 536, behind the goal in the corner, and I didn’t hear any negativity from the Arsenal fans even after going 2 goals down. My seat was a £65 one though so maybe you get more moaners in the expensive seats 

    Five pounds just to get into an Arsenal allocated pub is definitely a bit steep. I went to the Green Man though and it cost £2 to get ‘in’ and that included live music from the away boyz.

    Why doesn’t everyone on here just ignore Red Rupert, surely no-one actually believes he is an Arsenal fan!