Ref Review : Arsenal – Watford, a game of two halves…

32 Replies to “Ref Review : Arsenal – Watford, a game of two halves…”

1. Your conclusion makes perfect sense. I couldn’t agree more.

2. Walter,

   As you say a textbook example of the sort of refereeing to expect should the ‘mythical type 3’ match fixing actually occur. For another example I would refer to Mike Dean a few years ago when he was in charge of our 5-2 win over Spurs. From dancing a jig on their second goal to being scrupulously fair in the latter stages. (Mind you, I think that was about the only time in recent seasons he was remotely fair).

3. Here is a bizarre data:

   the last time Arsenal got a penalty at the Emirates, it was given by Anthony Taylor in a match Mrs Broeckx was our lucky charm for the first time (Aston Villa 5:0). That means we haven’t had a penalty at home for over a year.

4. I just want give a news update.

   Firstly, the review for the game against West Ham will take more time than usual due to the high number of debatable incidents. Just to make sure the report is published in a well reasoned manner, it will take more time.

   Secondly, as most of you remember, I wrote at least a month back about planning to review nearly all the EPL 2015-16 games in the summer break, well I have to slightly back out on this one because of some reasons. 1. There has been a major rescheduling at my work place. 2. I might have to go back to my home country due to family reasons.

   But with the start of the new season I might be able execute this plan efficiently. I think this allow for more fans of other clubs to discuss and debate from their perspective on the refs and incidents in the game (As long as they comment in a reasonable manner unlike the aaa). Note: it is still a plan. Its no where near execution. Any ideas, tips, or improvements are welcomed.

5. Josif,
   I think someone from the PGMO has hit the dislike button. Or is it because he dislikes us not getting a penalty for more than a year? LOL
   However you turn and twist this is completely ridiculous that we didn’t get a penalty for more than a year at home.

   But hey ho, nothing wrong with referees in the PL of course. Hush hush move on, nothing to see here…

6. Usama, don’t worry about the changes in plans forced upon you.
   We will see what we can do in the future. If it works, fine. If not also fine.

7. This is obviously a big issue on this site but it needs fleshing out. Either all the refs are rubbish or bent in which case it must be the same across the league and therefore its sort of irrelevant to whether we win or lose or there is a definite anti- Arsenal bias which is my sense of what the stats claim to show. If its the latter then what needs explaining is why the refs are anti-Arsenal. I havent a clue. We are not a dirty side by any means, we dont usually harass refs and we dont win anything so its hard to see what the downer on Arsenal is all about. Over to you Eds on this one.

8. Thanks Walter. Its the support from you and everyone at Untold, the love for Arsenal and fair football that drives us to uncover the truth on refereeing. And I always keep thinking to myself that; reviewing Arsenal’s matches fits certain pieces of puzzle, but by reviewing every single league in the season we will be able to see the whole picture.

9. ***every single league match in the premier league.

10. Usama, family comes first for all of us Arsenal whilst a passion for most of us here must always come second or it becomes an obsession which is never healthy.

11. An excellent review.

    Looks like once the match was beyond Watford, Mr Taylor saw no point in further attempts to tilt the playing field!

12. Usama,
    Far more important for it to be right than fast!

13. Referees announced for next week- very interesting but strange.

    Mike Dean gets Chelsea v City on Saturday
    Roger East for out game v Palace but with Mike Dean Whispering
    Moss gets Leicester v West Ham
    Friend on Monday for Stoke v Spurs again with Mike Dean whispering
    Dean on Wednesday for West Ham v Watford
    Moss for our game on Thursday 21April

    So Dean gets a say in the games featuring teams in positions 2, 3, 4 and 6 all in one week!

14. Very true Andrew, and thanks for the advice and yes my passion for Arsenal is healthy enough for it not to become an obsession 😀

    I am still 22-years old and learn something new everyday. I always have my family and work as top priorities. Walter and your advice are always welcomed. 🙂

15. More referee appointments are out, with some postponed games in here.

    Sunday April 17, we have the late game with Roger East in the middle and Mike Dean whispering. Thursday April 21, we are home to WBA. Jonathan Moss in the middle, M Jones whispering.

    Wednesday 13 April 2016
    K.O. _MATCHES _ _ _ _ REFEREE _ _ _ ASST. REF. 1 _ _ASST. REF. 2 _ _4TH OFFICIAL
    20:00 Crystal Palace – Everton Mike Jones _ _ M Perry _ _ H Lennard P Tierney
    Saturday 16 April 2016
    K.O. _MATCHES _ _ _ _ REFEREE _ _ _ ASST. REF. 1 _ _ASST. REF. 2 _ _4TH OFFICIAL
    17:30 Chelsea – Man City _ _ _ Mike Dean _ _ _S Burt _ _ _J Collin _P Bankes
    15:00 Everton – Southampton _ _Craig Pawson _ D Bryan _ _ S Beck _ _T Harrington
    15:00 Man Utd – Aston Villa _ _Anthony Taylor L Betts _ _ D Cann _ _D Webb
    15:00 Newcastle – Swansea _ _ _Lee Mason _ _ _S Bennett _ M Wilkes _P Gibbs
    12:45 Norwich – Sunderland _ _ Andre Marriner S Ledger _ _S Child _ N Swarbrick
    15:00 West Brom – Watford _ _ _Michael Oliver G Beswick _ D Eaton _ N Miller
    Sunday 17 April 2016
    K.O. _MATCHES _ _ _ _ REFEREE _ _ _ ASST. REF. 1 _ _ASST. REF. 2 _ _4TH OFFICIAL
    16:00 Arsenal – Crystal Palace Roger East _ _ R West _ _ _M Scholes M Dean
    13:30 Bournemouth – Liverpool _Mike Jones _ _ A Garratt _ A Holmes _G Scott
    13:30 Leicester – West Ham _ _ Jonathan Moss _A Halliday _H Lennard R Madley
    Monday 18 April 2016
    K.O. _MATCHES _ _ _ _ REFEREE _ _ _ ASST. REF. 1 _ _ASST. REF. 2 _ _4TH OFFICIAL
    20:00 Stoke – Spurs _ _ _ _ _ _Kevin Friend _ M McDonough M Perry _ M Dean
    Tuesday 19 April 2016
    K.O. _MATCHES _ _ _ _ REFEREE _ _ _ ASST. REF. 1 _ _ASST. REF. 2 _ _4TH OFFICIAL
    19:45 Newcastle – Man City _ _ Neil Swarbrick D Bryan _ _ L Betts _ K Friend
    Wednesday 20 April 2016
    K.O. _MATCHES _ _ _ _ REFEREE _ _ _ ASST. REF. 1 _ _ASST. REF. 2 _ _4TH OFFICIAL
    20:00 Liverpool – Everton _ _ _Robert Madley _D Cann _ _ _P Kirkup _R East
    20:00 Man Utd – Crystal Palace Lee Mason _ _ _M Salisbury S Long _ _M Jones
    19:45 West Ham – Watford _ _ _ Mike Dean _ _ _J Brooks _ _M Wilkes _G Scott
    Thursday 21 April 2016
    K.O. _MATCHES _ _ _ _ REFEREE _ _ _ ASST. REF. 1 _ _ASST. REF. 2 _ _4TH OFFICIAL
    19:45 Arsenal – West Brom _ _ _Jonathan Moss _A Halliday _S Bennett M Jones

16. Sorry Andrew, I didn’t see you had a summary up before me.

17. Gord,

    No problem, your list is complete, I had looked earlier to complete another article and spotted those I highlighted. Gives me something to talk about for the weekend preview!

18. Been looking at the other side of the coin today.

    When crazy folk like us allege bias, some, though not often (they don’t like stats), could produce stats which don’t look absurdly weird. Red card stats, pen stats,etc.

    But what you don’t see is the context in which the decisions we get and don’t get occurs. That context is obviously vital,though.

    Anyway, I put up some stats earlier for three seasons of red cards, I’ve now looked at another two.

    One of the standout things was how many times the red cards for opposition players against us come very late in games.

    This is the updated list for double yellows. 8 in total over 5 years.

    (Arsenal opponents)
    90
    87
    90
    89
    90
    84
    90
    54

    Drinkwater’s was even rarer than we thought,folks. The first double yellow in 5 years before the 84th minute!

    Into the record books those sendings off go, evidence things aren’t too fishy or one-sided.

    And yet we gained virtually nil from them. Drinkwater’s aside (which we used so well) we gained a grand total of 10 regulation minutes with an extra player. In 5 years.

    Our 2nd yellows over the years follow a totally different pattern. Normally occurring with at least twenty minutes left and almost never very late in a game (why waste a red on us then, eh?)

    It’s all coincidence, folks, all coincidence.

19. Our U21s have just finished their game away at Derby with a two one victory. Our midfielder Sheaf was sent off at the end of the first half with the score at one all. Following the Arsenal Twitter comments on the game it would seem that his two yellows were both down to his stupidity, the first for kicking the ball away, the second for arguing with the referee. If Sheaf and the rest of the squad learn from this experience then it will have have been a valuable lesson. Referees can, will and do send off Arsenal players at every opportunity!

20. Rich

    You probably meant to refer to Simpson rather than Drinkwater (no big deal; a Danny is a Danny).

    Anyway those stats are rare and quite intriguing. Yet I fail to see the agenda – or the need for sarcasm – as there are no other teams in comparison. I could join in and do ManC and Chelski, as long as only EPL games are concerned, right?

21. Another review on its way.

    State aid United are to give all details of their agreement on the Olympic Stadium to the public. Perhaps there will be some questions asked about why such a deal was struck without full transparency.

22. It is quite amazing that Rileys trusted cheats are always involved with the top of the league. It is certainly proving to be controlled evolution from Chelsea to the selection of the Frauds.

23. Whispering Dean is everywhere!

24. Interesting review.
    Astounding Josif, an attacking team, a year without a penalty at home? Is there any precedent for this?
    But as soon as The chosen team have won the league, and we are three nil up against somebody, we,will get that elusive penalty at home, just stats to make the PGMOL look like they are not cheats.

25. Dean – the “ball whisperer” ?

    I suppose they think that all is cool when they have an “experienced” ref to guide the new refs, and it does make sense, BUT why is it Dean so often? Is he the only experienced (read trusted) ref in the PL?

    It’s really time for the PGMO/refs to get sorted, another season nearly gone and still the wrong decisions pile up against us.

26. Mandy
    Well said. We only get fair refreeing once the PGMO realise the match is out of there hands.

27. Bard I would refer you to all our articles on Type III match fixing to explain the issue. Or read up the history of match fixing in Italy where the process was perfected.

28. Mandy

    And to think Utd at one stage got 10 penalties at Old Trafford in 14 games from a referee called…Mike Riley .

    7 in 5 games in 2002-3 alone. 4 of them for shirt tugs. Well, there was a title to be reclaimed,after all.

    Interesting to ponder how feasible it would be for a ref to rack up those figures for us under Riley’s charge. One, when it mattered, would lead to serious questions and maybe some time off; two, if you did it again when given another test and it’d be championship and league 1 ahoy; three and…no you probably wouldn’t get another game there for at least a year and might even have been driven out by then.

    But could it even come to that? Could a ref get to the top if he was capable of that sort of shit?

    http://www.theguardian.com/football/2004/nov/03/theknowledge.sport

    What are the odds,eh? Utd’s opponents must have been so dirty, clumsy and desperate in their defending while our opponents must be so damn clean.

    Or maybe Mike’s opinions about the threshold for a pen have changed enormously by now?

    Or we don’t have any threatening attacks?

    Or it’s all just darn luck and coincidence?

    But,yeah, they might just find one or two in the remaining games after this weekend, unless Utd are in with a squeak of 4th.

    If so, they’ll have to let it carry over to next year, when we’ll get a few to make the figures look less suspect, against smaller teams, preferably when the games done already.

    Couple of double yellows around the 85-90 mark, too, just to make things look better on that front.

    The guy at the weekend, East, strikes me as someone who makes Dean and Atkinson look like subtle masters of their trade, so that’s a bad combo with Dean whispering and I think we can expect some crude dangerous stuff to be permitted.

29. Dieter

    Yep, Simpson. Cheers for correction. Think I’ve written it as Drinkwater in about three posts so far.

    You’re right other teams needed to give a better picture. Was thinking of that yesterday as I did ours.

    Would be good to have an average time of reds for each club over the course of 5 years (though i’d have to relearn how to work out averages, unfortunately!). No reason they shouldn’t be close over a sample of that size but I reckon there’ll be huge disparity between us and them.

    Took me a bit longer than I thought but I’ll do it in next few days if you haven’t already.

    Prem games only. Relatively easy to check on that site I gave the link to. only danger is including a cup match by mistake.

30. Dieter

    Only looked at first year so far- 2011-12.

    Oppositon 2nd yellows for us that year were (90, 87,90) 3 mins regulation time total

    Opposition 2nd yellows for Utd that year (77, 79,66, 39) 99 mins regulation time total.

    More details below. (bit messy and some difficulties nailing down best way to describe ‘for’, ‘against’ etc, but hopefully makes sense)

    2011-12

    Arsenal.

    13 Aug , Newc (a) d 0-0; (gervinho, straight red 76) Walton; 0-0 at red * Song also handed 3-match ban for stamp on barton

    20 Aug Liv (h) L 0-2 (Frimpong 2nd yellow 70) ; Atkinson ; 0-0 at red

    28 Aug Utd (a) L 8-2 (Jenkinson 2 yellow 77) Webb ; 6-2 at red

    24 Sep Bolton (h) w 3-0 (Wheater red 55) Clattenberg ; 2-0 at red

    21 Dec Villa (a) w 2-1 (hutton 2 yellow 90) ; 2-1 at red

    27 Dec Wolved (a) d 1-1 (Miljas 75 red) ; 1-1 at red; Atwell

    2nd Jan Fulham (a) L 2-1 (Djourou 2 yellow 78); 1-0 up at red Probert

    4th Feb Blackburn (h) w 7-1 (Givet s/o 43) ; Marriner; 3-1 up at red

    26 Feb Spurs (h) w5-2 (Parker 87 2 yellows); Dean ; 5-2 up at red

    8 April Man city (h) w 1-0; Ballotelli (2 yellows 90); Atkinson ; 1-0 up at red

    11 April Wolves (a) w 3-0 Bassong (red 8) Swarbrick : 0-0 at red

    Reds for (Arsenal players) 4 (+ retrospective red for Song) ; Against (opp players) 7

    Straight reds for 1 (76); Against 4 (55, 75 43, 8)

    2nd yellows for 3 (70,77,78) against 3 (90.87.90)

    ——————————-

    Our stats ended up being unusually good (for the 5 years in question) that year, after a woeful beginning, but I think it’s only really one of them- a straight red for a Wolves player before ten mins which was an absolute game changer (i.e there was a lot of time left and we didn’t already have a two-goal lead. The other Wolves sending off- with 15 mins left- also represented a good chance to turn a draw into a win).

    I expect that to be the pattern throughout, with virtually every early red in our favour occurring against a minnow- Bolton, Blackburn, Wolves, Wolves, this time-, and any reds we get in big games coming very late.

    I’ll look through the other years but that first one does fit the bill of things easing up for us decision wise if/ once we are no longer in title contention. In Utd’s case the big calls seem to increase for them at the critical time of title race.

    —————————–
    Man Utd

    Against .28 Aug, Arsenal (h) W8-2 (Jenkinson 2 yellow); Webb ; 6-2 at red

    For. 23 Oct (h) Man City L 6-1 (Evans red 47); Clattenberg ; 1-0 down at red

    Against 26 Nov (h) Newc D 1-1 (Gutierrez 2 yellow) 79; Mike Jones ; 1-1 at red

    Against 26 Dec (h) Wigan W 5-0 (Sammon (red 40); Webb; 1-0 at red

    Against 11 March West from W 2-0 (Olsson 2 yellow 66) ; Probert; 1-0 up at red

    Against 18 march Wolves (a)W 5-0 (Zubar 2 yellow 39) Taylor ; 1-0 up at red

    Against 8 April QPR (H) W 2-0 (red Derry 14) ; Mason ; 0-0 at red

    Reds for 1; Against 6

    Straight reds for 1 (47); Against 2 (40,14)

    2nd yellows for (0) ; Against (4) (77, 79,66, 39)

31. @ Rich

    My recollection was that in one season Riley refereed 49 games. 41 didn’t involve Man U and he awarded just one penalty in those games. The 8 that involved Man U involved 9 penalties…….all in favour of Man U. If those stats are wrong then it’s only slight. Even if its more than slight it is still hugely damning of a bloke who’s supposed to be the epitome of neutrality.

32. @Goonermikey

    Those figures sound preposterous, but I can well believe Riley was capable of that.

    It wouldn’t and couldn’t happen in our favour, of course, but I’m sure the media would make quite a lot of it if some ref gave us, say, 3 or 4 in 8 games.

    Mason came back after his extended break for the crime of not sending off Coquelin, and they’d have had plenty to say if he’d given us even 1 penalty.

    It stinks.