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October 2016
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Arsenal – Swansea 3-2, good play, nasty tackle and character shown

By Walter Broeckx

No changes to the starting line up compared to the team that won at Burnley. Mesut Özil celebrating his birthday today so let’s hope he can make a very happy day of it. Also Cech celebrating his 50th appearance for Arsenal.

On the bench a few changes. Coquelin back on the bench and also Spanish striker Lucas was amongst the substitutes. Both missed the Burnley match because of injury.

The team that started was:  Cech, Bellerin, Mustafi, Koscielny, Monreal, Cazorla, Xhaka, Walcott, Ozil, Iwobi, Alexis.

On the beach: Ospina, Gabriel, Gibbs, Coquelin, Elneny, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Lucas.

A first chance but too many Swansea defenders so Arsenal couldn’t come to a shot. Arsenal attacking from the first minute against Swansea. Özil with a corner and Mustafi heads against the crossbar.  Arsenal break almost again but Alexis couldn’t finish the move as a defender got in the way. A bit later a free kick is cleard and Iwobi has a shot but that went well wide. No score in the first fifteen minutes.

Swansea trying to defend and hit Arsenal on a counter. Fer had a chance to shoot from the edge of the penalty area but it went well over. At the other end both Alexis and Cazorla just couldn’t come to a shot and Swansea defenders could clear. An attempt from Xhaka is also blocked by a defender after a quick Arsenal attack. Cazorla being tackled from behind but Moss lets it go. Xhaka to Walcott who plays it to Alexis in the middle. Alexis immediately plays it to Bellerin on the overlap who heads it to the middle of the goal. A Swansea defender tries to control the ball and Walcott sneaks in in between and puts it over the goal line! GOAL!!! 1-0 to The Arsenal after 26 minutes.

Xhaka with a lovely ball over the top to Alexis who tries to lob Fabianski but it goes wide and the flag went up anyway. But what a lovely ball. Another lovely attack from Arsenal ends with Özil bringin Bellerin but a great save from Fabianski only gives Arsenal a corner. Corner is swung in by Santi and the ball bounces between two Swansea defenders and falls in front of the feet of Walcott who just has to turn and shoot from 5 meters out. GOAL!!!! 2-0 to The Arsenal after 32 minutes. Another goal from Theo!

Moss then gives Swansea a goal kick when Özil won another corner. Moss then warns a Swansea player for haning around the neck of Santi for a long time when he gave an advantage.

Cech showing he was awake on a rare long ball from Swansea. But then Xhaka lost the ball just outside the penalty area and Sigurdson finished it in the top corner. 2-1 after 38 minutes. Cech then with a poor clearance on a back pass but this time Koscielny can stop Swansea from becoming dangerous. Sigurdson again in a dangerous position but this time shoots wide. Walcott being pulled back when he chases a long ball but Moss again seeing nothing. The Swansea player clearly using his hand and poking in the eye of Walcott who even needs treatment. Swansea get a free kick at the last seconds of extra time but Cech can stop the header. 2-1 after the first half.

Walcott going down after an elbow in the back but again Moss saw nothing. Özil being brought down by Taylor and if Walcott hadn’t been offfside Moss might have let it go. But then he came back to the foul and even gave a yellow card against the Swansea defender.

Some technical problems then for a few minutes but finally was back on line with the score still 2-1. Iwobi with an amazing dribble the cross was cut out, put back in front of goal by Özil to Walcott whose shot was stop by Fabianski. But Arsenal kept on pushing forward. A cross from Alexis to the second post to birthday boy Özil who finishes it off with a smashing volley. GOAL!!! 3-1 to The Arsenal after 57 minutes.  Alexis and Iwobi with a misunderstanding when the first stopped and the other expected a run and Fabianski could pick up the ball. Seconds later Özil with a shot from distance but the ball went wide.

Arsenal then again being careless at the back but lucky the Swansea striker was offside this time. Let’s not play around at the back too much will we. Moss does know when it is a foul when a defender jumps in the back of a striker. Maybe the fact it was an Arsenal defender helped. Barron escapes on the flank and brings a low cross in front of goal and Swansea score. 3-2 after 66 minutes.

Iwobi goes off and Coquelin comes on after 67 minutes. Xhaka takes a card for a nasty tackle on Barron. And Moss gives a red card! Well you know it wouldn’t have been given if it would have been a Swansea player. Arsenal have to play with 10 man for the last 20 minutes. No chance of playing the ball so the ref was right but the way he let things go on Arsenal players raises questions again.

Alexis with a chance to start counter but completely misses his pass. Walcott called back for offside as he was going on goal. Moss then calls play back when Arsenal played a free kick quickly and Özil was on his way to goal. It was not taken from the correct place but would it have been called the other way? And refs should give advantage when they can to the fouled team.

Swansea going forward but the header is saved by Cech. Sigurdson with a shot that went over from a promising position. Alexis goes off after 81 minutes and Oxlade-Chamberlain comes on. Also Özil goes off and Gibbs comes on.

More problems with my stream make me miss a few minutes. Fer with a header but Cech can save. Arsenal hanging on now as can be expected. 4 minutes of extra time. Another header but again Cech with good save. Bellerin with a great run but Fabianski can stop his shot. Already in extra time. Theo almost at the end of a long ball. The Ox with a great run to Theo who misses in front of an empty goal.

A shaky end to a match we should have won more comfortably. In the end a deserved 3-2 win based on good play and great character. With other results going our way a bit Arsenal now level on points with league leader Manchester City.

123 comments to Arsenal – Swansea 3-2, good play, nasty tackle and character shown

  • GoingGoingGooner

    Xhaka clearly a professional foul but the winger was way out on the wing almost 50 yards from goal, with a couple other men to beat. I have never seen that called on an opposition defender.

  • Polo

    Phew good win and good game. It was another edge of the seat match in the end, so emotionally draining. Arsenal should have put this game to bed, somehow we keep letting the opposition back in the match but I can’t complain, the game had everything, skills, luck, unlucky, mistakes, and fortitude. If only Theo scored that last chance, Arsenal would have been top of the league.

  • Usama Zaka

    Good performance overall, very much draining the team.

    As for the refereeing, it was a fine bent piece of performance, double standards by Moss. Fouls and cards not given to them but to us for similar incidents.

    Remember the Type III match fixing scenarios??

    Just have a glance at this.

    Min 69 Arsenal 3- Swnansea 2
    Min 69 Man City 0 – Everton 1

    Min 70 Arsenal 3 – Swansea 2 (Xhaka red card)
    Min 70 Man City 0 – Everton 1 (City awarded a second penalty and missed)


  • Polo

    @GGG, I didn’t understand why Xhaka had a straight red, it was a professional foul. Hmm a bit of conspiracy theory, could the tide turning against Arsenal after AW confirm not taking the England job?

  • Leon

    I was looking at the BBC stats and Swans had two per cent more posession, equal number of shots on target, one more corner and significantly gave away three more fouls. The sending off really stretched us and it was a bad challenge as Xhaka stood no chance of winning the ball, so probably correct, but two early challenges on Theo were also card worthy, so what was Moss (the dross) up to here.

  • Leon

    So we’ve made up for the poor start to the season and sit at the top (almost) where we rightfully should be

  • Usama Zaka

    As I said yesterday the league is full of bent refs and their bosses, we need to kill off the oppositions chance when we get the best chance, otherwise the refs get a chance to mess up.

    Today we were cruising 2-nil when we shot ourselves in the foot. And as soon as it was 2-1 refereeing became shaky.

    3-1 up we were back on top, and we made another mistake by taking a nap, 3-2 the score and ref has got the game by its horns.

  • Leon

    Are you suggesting the referees at the two games were in contact?
    That’s a bit far fetched I think.

  • Usama Zaka


    I not suggesting anything, but placing a very surprising piece of info that I came across. Match-fixing or not, I remember seeing similar pieces of data in the Serie A 2004-2005 Calciopoli reports years back.

  • Gord

    The 4th officials of the two games, could easily be in contact.

    Whether they were or not, I have no idea.

  • Leon

    With the game poised at 3-2, Swansea really going for it and just a few minutes of normal time left, Clock End supporters were leaving. Are they mad? I could never do such a thing and remember this happening once at Highbury when we achieved a rare double over over Man U. with two very, very late goals after being one nil down.

  • Gord

    Medja claiming they LEARNED something.

    Daily Star – 5
    TheExpress – 5
    WalesOnline – 5

    OptaJoe via Metro:
    > 30 – Arsenal are the only team to have won (30) more Premier League games than they’ve lost (26) when having a player sent off. Adversity.

  • Leon

    Don’t forget to put this in your match review.

  • Gunnerjoe

    Master class by Moss on how to fix a game he stank all game.

  • Leon

    We used to be the best ten man side in the Premier League. Seriously! I mean we had to be in those early Wenger seasons.

  • Gunnerjoe

    Gord I think they call that fortitude and class

  • Gunnerjoe

    Even being down to ten men we made the better chances hope we appeal that dreadful red card.

  • GoingGoingGooner


    I remember those early years of Wenger’s tenure. Vieira in particular stands out for his red cards but to be honest I didn’t care because even while he was learning to not get wound up by other players he was figuring out how to intimidate others and take over the middle of the pitch. No one trifled with us. They knew that for every kick we got, they got the same with knobs on.

  • GoingGoingGooner

    As for Xhaka’s foul…I can’t understand why some Gooners are so upset at him. I was not happy with his play on Swansea’s first goal but his foul was a professional foul not a rash nor stupid foul. He assumed that he would get a yellow…Sadly, he is learning what PGMO referees are like. He will come good in time.

  • bjtgooner

    Nice write up Walter.

    I missed quite a lot of the game due to a poor stream which eventually failed and had to resort to listening on Arsenal player.

    But what I did see was the Bandit in Black trying very hard to tilt the game. Well done the team for hanging in there & securing a valuable three points.

    I suspect any optimism that the refs will treat us fairly this season is badly misplaced.

  • Mandy Dodd

    FIF has some very interesting things to say about Mr Moss. He has not had a great season so far by all accounts. Today, he looked either incompetent, or bent. Glad the crowd ….from what I could hear at least…..stayed with the team, and put Moss under some pressure, as they did on Atkinson against Leicester last year.
    But, everything about this game was a potential banana skin. Tired players coming back from the most boring of interlulls, them maybe having a new manager bounce, and then, the refereeing.
    In years gone by, we may have fallen at this hurdle, but credit to the team for keeping going. But, ultimately, we need to kill off these games to nullify poor refs, or those with an agenda. We should have been out of site, and could easily have scored two or three more.
    A valuable lesson for Xhaka, when a ref wants to do a team, they will find a way.
    But, what really matters, three points.

  • Damilare

    Playing 10 men with 20 minutes to go, we showed strength of character. Way to go boys.


  • Mandy Dodd

    Whisper it quietly, but does anyone else get the feeling we are very soon going to absolutely batter some unfortunate team?

  • Andrew crawshaw

    Mandy, I hope we save that for Spurs and Manure

  • Usama Zaka

    Meanwhile in an other league full of corruption, the vamp is now practicing boxing. No red card. A punch in the back of the head

  • Menace

    Leon – you must be seeing a different game to the one I was at. Moss was cheating all game as was his assistant on the East bank (closer one to the North Bank). He saw clear fouls by Swansea but ignored them all first half. He then saw off sides galore when we got the ball when clear on goal. The foul throw ins from Swansea were ignored, but then again the FIFA approved PGMO are qualified to ignore corruption.

    Moss was ignoring fouls on Alexis & Cazorla as though they were meant to be kicked. His red card to Xhaka was wrong. At worst it should have been a yellow as it was a trip not a kick, and he wasn’t last man.

    Our football was enchanting but we missed a whole bunch of chances because we weren’t on the same page or on Theos part just unlucky.

    There is still no excuse for this select group of white northern cheats to be running a monopoly officiating a multi million pound entity without any recourse to English Law. The FA & PGMO are corrupt in the extreme. Big Sam was caught by a sting, these swine need a Royal investigation for fraud.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Hope so Andrew, and if the pgmol going to give out red cards like that, can we assume Spurs will left with about two or three players on the pitch?

  • Gunnerjoe

    As we all know Moss also did the Southampton game last season.

  • Zuruvi

    I agree with Arsene Wenger, this is a game we should have won comfortably but we got ourselves in an uncomfortable situation.

    But let’s celebrate the 3 points that take us up to joint top of the league table with Man City.

    I now hope that the Poo-Manure game on Monday night ends as a draw.
    Both teams should drop 2 points.

  • bushido

    @Usama Zaka, thanks for the link. that was clearly a violent conduct from the Uruguayan vamp. how some players keeps getting away with that kind of behavior is just crazy

  • Mandy Dodd

    Moss strikes me as a ref whose stock is low in all quarters, so is going out of his way to impress someone.
    Surprised Wenger is not appealing that red?
    Think our manager needs to try harder in feigning interest in the England job, or else we know who we will be getting for the Utd and Spurs games

  • Al

    So Jagielka tripped and hacked and gave away two penalties, yet finished the match and didn’t get even a yellow card. Meanwhile Xhaka tripped a player when he wasn’t even last man and got sent off…some consistency there from these refs.

  • Al

    Moss is quickly overtaking Atkinson as the worst ref in this league; he’s crap.

  • Leon

    I think I made it quite clear what I thought of Moss in my post at 5.15 and on the other thread during the game.

  • Gord

    In second place on goal difference is wonderful. Liverpool could make things interesting on Monday. It is still early days and foolish to extrapolate to a season.

    But, Leicester is about where they historically have been. Statistics doesn’t say where outliers come from, but it is looking more likely that last season was an outlier for Leicester (and Chelsea, not necessarily for the same or even related reasons).

    I don’t think anyone got injured.

    Anyone want some snow? 🙂 I’m on the second snowfall of winter already, trying out the new snowblower.

  • oduli benard

    Xhaka is slow, expect more of those cards

  • Gunnerjoe

    No snow thanks the country will come to a standstill

  • bushido

    just to many bullshit decisions from the crap guy in black in today’s match. it’s pain me to talk about it and just drained my energy to keep thinking about the unfair treatment that Arsenal players receive from the biased pgmol. i thought it’s already stop based on their performance during the Arsenal match this season but it start to happen again. Thank God we won this match, I’ll sleep a lot easier tonight.

  • omgarsenal

    A nervy test of character and defensive nous in the last 20 minutes, yet we still had chances to add another goal! There is a new confidence about the Arsenal this year but I can see the dark clouds of the PIGMOB beginning to roll in from the North as we get closer to the top…..can’t have that happen now can we!

  • Josif

    Here is a red card for the Hertha player against Borussia Dortmund. He made a reckless tackle at the center of the pitch. It was a clear red. It looked to me that Xhaka’s one was also clear. After all, Mr Wenger has already said he won’t appeal. I agree that we are very unlikely to see a red card like that one shown to the opponents though.

    Here is fascinating statistic: we have created as few as 89 chances so far and scored 19 goals. Last season we had 125 chances created and just 13 goals scored after 8 league matches. So, it took us almost ten chances to score at this stage of the season and now we score with almost every fourth chance we create.

  • Bloggs

    Menace: White northern cheats? Racism rearing it’s ugly head ( and I imagine yours really ugly ) again! Do you actually watch/enjoy the game? Is your sole purpose in life to look for conspiracies? You really are comical please carry on with your racist rants! We are watching.

  • Pete

    By not appealing the red Wenger seems to be opting for the “not rocking the boat approach”. Hmm.

  • Vince

    Are you seriously comparing the Xhaka red card to this challenge? The Hertha player threw himself to the ground studs up, while Xhaka only barely clipped his opponent feet.

    One is an awful and dangerous challenge, the other a classic deliberate counter-attack stopping/yellow card deserving foul like we see every week…

  • Walter

    No chance to play the ball, ball meters in front of Swansea player. Came in from behind in a reckless way, could (did) cause serious injurry: correct red card

  • John L

    There would be no point appealing the red, even though it was patently unfair. The stiff-arm on Theo’s face in the first half should have been a red, as with the foul which could have shattered Ozil’s leg in the second. The first not even penalised and the second only a yellow.

    For all of us who wondered whether the PGMO agenda had changed this season, Moss has proved clear evidence that it is still the same.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Will bow to your superior knowledge here Walter, but hope we will in the future see our opponents similarly punished when they use the same tactic, and worse…..but won’t be holding my breath.

  • Vince

    No offense Walter, but I don’t see how a clip can be considered as a reckless or possible injury-provoking challenge. Taylor tackle on Ozil was (and should have been a red card imo), not this one

  • MickHazel

    Interesting to see that all those teams with world class ’20 goal a season’ strikers have the same (Man C) or less (Man U, Totts, Chelsea, Everton, Leicester) goals than us so far this season.

  • gouresh

    Bloggs.,they are white, they are northern and they are,CHEATS….where did racism come into the mix?

  • Andy Mack

    I won’t ‘bow’ to walters knowledge on the card, because he’s clearly wrong.
    It was ‘a stone wall’ yellow. More so in the context of all the other fouls committed (and not carded) in the game.

  • Gord

    Oh Bloggs, 😈 Mike Riley is white, northern and a cheat as well.

  • Andy Mack

    The race of Mike Riley and his followers is irrelevant.

  • Leon

    Whether the “white northern cheats” is racist or not is a moot point, but didn’t need to be said, especially as menace by his own admission is not white.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Just seen it again on MOTD Andy Mack, have to say, it does look the classic yellow. May be some technical reason it could in theory be a red….don’t know,, that’s where I would trust Walters knowledge but cannot recall many reds being actually given in that circumstance. Just looked like a sort of tap trip rather than anything excessively violent, though the swans player appeared to make the most of it.
    If it is a genuine red, and they give them consistently, there are going to be a lot of reds in the future.

  • bushido

    @Gouresh, that’s why Bloggs hold a special title here at Untold. it’s a bit like Donald Trump type.(i know words, i had the best words) but when it’s time for them to use their brain to think, they fail miserably.

  • WalterBroeckx

    The Xhaka tackle is one that they show to refs to instruct us when to give a red card. I’ve seen such clips 3 times already this season in our courses. It’s not because it is an Arsenal player that it will change my mind.

    Of course I would love to see it been given when an opponent makes such a challenge. But then again it is not because they don’t give them against other players that makes any difference. Such cynical and dangerous and injury causing tackles should be banned from football. Arsenal player or not.

  • WalterBroeckx

    If I may add the fact that Barrow who was fouled was on fire and was taken off because of an injury is confirming that the ref had it right on that moment. Fouls that can cause serious injury should be red carded.

    Why would Swansea take off Barrow if he wasn’t injured from the foul? He was the player that we had trouble to stop. In fact once he went off I found that Swansea wasn’t that dangerous anymore.

    And yes I live for the day they do the same to our opponents. But let us not use this as an excuse.

  • Mandy Dodd

    If you believe the refs are less than honest…..well, the vast majority are white and northern. Whether that is relevant or needs saying is another matter, but Menace has pretty much summed up much ofthe demographic and ethnic group of elite level English referees. Don’t like mentioning race, as there shouldn’t really be any such thing.
    But, Would be good to see a bit more diversity…regional for starters..and then you might not have a ref from Greater Manchester refereeing a Liverpool Utd game…..and who knows, maybe even a Utd vs Arsenal game coming up.
    Being white or northern of course does not in any way make you inherently a cheat or dishonest ….must be added, being a white person with some pretty serious northern roots.

  • Josif

    Walter, thanks for clarification. That’s what I would say if I had the referee knowledge myself. Personally, I was a great fan of that “every tackle from behind is a red card”-rule a decade or so ago. It was a proper protection for attacking players with pace and knowledge to win space for themselves. For me, Xhaka’s tackle was a clear red card. Why PGMO employees decide against giving red cards for dangerous tackles on Arsenal players (Vardy on Monreal anyone?) is a different topic.

    Speaking of red cards given and not given, I have to say Moss’ decision on Theo’s injured eye in the first half was a real sh!t of the day. The very same moron who fouled Özil in March before Swansea’s equalizer could have made a serious injury to Theo’s eye. We could even argue if that eye-poke caused problems to Theo with his second-half chances. Moss saw the state of Theo’s eye and should have reacted according to that.

  • bjtgooner

    Are the refs all white – yes?

    Are the refs cheats – certainly they have shown a repeated anti Arsenal bias week by week and year by year – it would be hard for anyone to claim they were not cheats.

    Are they substantially from the north of England – yes?

    Looks to me that the description used by Menace is factually correct.

    By the way – I am a white Brit & I take no offence at Menace’s comment – I support it.

    But lets not miss the point – as a couple of boneheads have – the PGMO is a closed shop – a clique consisting of a select few – that few having been chosen carefully (selection criteria chosen cannot include integrity or ability!)- but in these days of supposed political correctness the EPL ref body should be much more representative of the nation (regionally, racially and also by gender) as a whole – why is it not?

  • Mandy Dodd

    Thanks Walter for the clarification.
    But it is a source of frustration this law only seems to apply to our players in their games.
    Think there must be some sort of Dier Exemption to this ruling in this league.
    But, ultimately, red or no red, has been a pretty good day……and perhaps a fast track education for Xhaka

  • Gord

    OT: Cech (10 years ago)

    Bleacher Report has a page on the Cech injury (yesterday).

    About 1/3 of the way in, is:

    > “I thought he went in to make contact. He didn’t mean to hurt him but definitely to make contact.”

    A bit before that is the typical:

    > … Hunt says. “I don’t know what Sid told them, but it wouldn’t have been that bad, and it would have helped. They knew I wasn’t that type of player.

    And a bit before that is:

    > “Do I regret [the tackle]?” he says. “No. Because I don’t feel I did anything to regret.

    The article talks about intent as well.

    I can easily believe that Hunt had no intent to injure Cech in this collision.

    The problem with that statement, is that whoever taught Hunt to play that way, DID HAVE INTENT!

    The laws of the game only allow contact in very specific circumstances. To approach a potential collision with the goal of making contact is wrong.

    Yes, the game has all kinds of contact outside of what is specifically allowed. And that is a problem. Improperly trained athletes can act in a manner with a high probablity of causing injury without ever forming intent to injure. Athletes are not supposed to be automatons bereft of intelligence. They should think about what they have been taught, and what they are being taught.

    And they really should give up on this “I’m not that kind of player” crap, because it is irrelevent. If you go into a situation in a manner likely to injure, you should suffer the consequences. Even if that means being banned from football for life.

    And it further strengthens Tony’s argument that there are not enough qualified coaches in the game.

    Does this situation apply to Xhaka’s red? I have no idea, I only read commentaries.

  • Menace

    It is time you realised that white is not a race. It is a colour or perhaps colourless description of a group of officials. The group & you idiots who think it is racist to describe the make up of the group refer to themselves as ‘select’. This incidentally was how South Africa controlled apartheid. When you find a non white PGMO official or a southern PGMO official please publish their names.

    I know what racism is. I have lived through it in London so please don’t try to take the high ground.

    Bloggs – you know you have reached your pinnacle – you can read.

  • Bloggs

    Gord and Gouresh just to educate muppets (again ) like yourselves; by mentioning the ethnicity of someone or the region they live in ( something you don’t comprehend ) and then assume ( without the evidence you hold with such benevolence ) that they are by your definition, obviously distasteful and unequal to yourself . This is called prejudice but because you are not British I will allow this slight indiscretion!

  • Bloggs

    Menace so easy!!!! eie muppet

  • Polo

    Anyone notice Arsenal concedes a lot of goals on the left side? It seem as if our defenders such as Monreal struggle with pacy dribbling wingers like Mane (Liverpool), Kurzawa (PSG) or in this match Barrow (Swansea). Hopefully this could be address soon.

  • Gord


    Could you put some numbers on that?

  • Gord

    About that tidbit from Metro:

    > OptaJoe via Metro:
    >> 30 – Arsenal are the only team to have won (30) more Premier League games than they’ve lost (26) when having a player sent off. Adversity.

    I would be inclined to think that as a variable drawn from some random distribution, these number of games won (30) or lost (26) when a man down are Poisson deviates.

    We were not given how many games ended in a tie. But, I would suggest that 26 and 30 are both different realisations of the same number (28). As the mean equals the variance of a Poisson deviate, we would expect 28 to have a standard deviation of 5.3. As both 26 and 30 are within 1 standard deviation of our chosen mean (28), it is hard to justify saying that either number is significantly different from 28.

    Hence, Arsenal apparently wins as many games as it loses when a man down is a better justified statement than what OptaJoe gave to Metro.

    I suspect many (most?) of the other teams they have looked at have similar statements.

  • para

    Sometimes i wonder if AW does not like high scores anymore. Or does he take pity on these “young” managers? 🙂

    Imagine a 6 or 7 0 beating and surely the new manager would have been sacked tomorrow?

  • Gord

    I think Wenger likes efficiency. There is no bonus paid (extra points) for scoring a lot of goals (unlike rugby). A player puts their fitness on the line to score goals on many (most?) occasions. To run up the score is to invite injuries.

  • Josif


    Yes, you are not alone in that opinion. My view on that is that Nacho has been struggling with a new partner on his wing. Iwobi is a great talent but still has to learn how to help Nacho in the defence. When Alexis was playing there, Nacho was easily the best left full-back in the league.

    Two out of three goals from an open play against Liverpool were created down the right flank of the opponents (which is the left side of our defence), one came down the left wing and there was a free-kick down the middle (that shouldn’t have been given).

    That goal against Watford was a pinball thing in the middle of our defence. It should have been cleared a few times before Pereyra scored. Xhaka was too soft in the duel.

    The Sunderland free-kick was conceded by Nacho.

    The Hull City penalty was conceded by Čech after Mbokani had received a cross from the right wing of the opponents.

    Swansea scored two goals – the first one after Xhaka lost the ball too close to our goal and the second one after Barrow made a low cross from their right wing for Borja who was completely free for some reason.

    Also, Cavani scored the opener for PSG after the cross from the right wing.


    -we have conceded ten goals in 11 games in all competitions,

    -half of those came either through our left flank or after a foul made by our left full-back.

    I think Mr Wenger is aware of that issue and that’s why we have seen the Monreal-Gibbs combination in a few occasions. Also, it’s not all down to Nacho and Iwobi – our central defenders and central midfielders have been excellent so far but sometimes they don’t react quickly enough and the opponents seize their opportunity. Swansea had a few shots going over the bar today, all from the central position. Most of the time those chances were created from their right wing (in fact, six of their nine chances were created from their right wing).

  • nacho has a tendency to come in too close to his center halves, leaving the winger about 8 or so yards away. i have noticed a long ball overhead to the winger usually leaves nacho struggling to get across, for which he doesn’t have the pace. the same seldom happens on the right side. his positioning has been noticed by PSG and a few other teams.

  • Gord

    Lots of articles mentioning Jack Wilshere in Bournemouth’s thrashing of Hull. In a sense, probably similar to when Ozl first came to Arsenal, lots of people liking what they see, but the medja isn’t seeing it and his name isn’t showing up on the goalsheet. And he has yet to complete a game. This was 79 minutes I believe, so getting close.

    Nothing to say about Calum Chambers at Middlesbrough, as his game is Sunday.

  • Gord

    If you are dissecting 10 goals, with 5 goals coming down Nacho’s side, I presume that means 2 or 3 goals coming down the other side and 3 or 2 coming down the middle.

    Comparing 5 to 2 or 3 is not going to result in you finding statistical significance. This is not to say you haven’t noticed something, but you won’t be able to show it statistically.

  • Arvind

    I’ve watched the tackle now, why is that a red Walter? Is it because it is a kick on the back of the heel where (I think) the Achilles is? Or is it just to discourage tackling from behind? If its either, and they are consistent, I’m happy to see a red for that. But really, as Mandy Dodd says – it is almost always a clear yellow card for that foul. Hell, even those awful scissor tackles only get yellows most times. This is just a little nick. Would appreciate an explanation. Thanks.

  • Pete

    Re Nacho. I think it is largely down to Iwobi not offering enough cover. He will learn – there were signs of greater diligence yesterday. Unfortunately, Barrow had a great game – and credit to him. As noted above, Swansea became less threatening after he went off.

    Re Nacho’s starting position, Arsenal always set up defensively with (both) full backs narrow. I think that is coaching orthodoxy these days. As for midfield cover, it was clear yesterday that the likes of Santi were covering more to the left than they might otherwise do (a heat map would hopefully show this).

  • Leon

    The Xhaka red card tackle wasn’t a tackle at all, but a deliberate (successful) attempt at bringing down a man who had skinned him. He made no play at the ball but on Barrow’s foot and injured him to the extent that he had to eventually be substituted.
    Repeat: it was deliberate and I revise my former opinion that it was probably a red to definitely, and if this had happened to one of ours Menace etc would be screaming blue murder.
    And I agree again that Moss was inconsistent and as I mentioned before “dross”

  • ARSENAL 13

    I can understand why Xhaka was given a red. And hope it will be given to our opponents as well when they do it… As Mr Wenger said, dark yellow.

    Speaking of yellow, tiny totts soooo much want to emulate us that they even copied our away kit!!!

  • WalterBroeckx

    Arvind, look at the position (distance) between the ball and the place where Xhaka attacks Barrow. And then tell me if Xhaka “was going for the ball”. You cannot go for the ball when it is meters out of reach. Xhaka only had one thing in mind: bring down that player. Without any chance of even getting near to the ball.
    With the ball that far away you could even speak about an assault. The fact that he went in from behind on a player at full speed adds to the possible risk of causing serious injury.
    And he caused an injury. As Barrow had to be taken off a few minutes later. And he was their most dangerous player.
    If someone would take out Alexis or Theo like that and the ref would not give a red card (Moss probably wouldn’t have given the foul if it was the other way as he was biased all match) I would write 10 articles to aks the removal of the ref from a football field for forever and 10 days.

    In fact it is by giving this red card that Moss showed up his bias completely. If he was just rubbish then he would have given a yellow card. But now he saw a terrible stupid tackle and realised that this was a decision on which his points would be made for the PGMO report so he acted as a ref. For once. So he knows the laws but just only applied them to one team.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    WOO HOO , HOO ! Well done boys ! Great stuff !

    50 up for Cech , sorry it was not another clean sheet.
    28th Birthday best wishes Mesut , what a goal to win it !
    21 more points and we’ll starve off relegation !
    19 points and sitting pretty .
    6 wins in a row .
    3 hard fought points.
    2 good goals from Theo , more to come .
    2nd in the table , probably till next week ?
    1st red card of the season , hopefully the last.

    Up the Gunners !

  • Brickfields Gunners


    A businessman was getting ready to go on a long business trip, so he thought he’d buy his wife something to keep her occupied. He went to a sex shop and explained his situation.

    The man there said, ‘Well, I don’t know that I have anything that will keep her occupied for so many weeks, except… the Voodoo Penis!’

    The husband said ‘The what’?
    The man repeated ‘ The Voodoo Penis’ and pulled out what seemed to be an ordinary dildo.
    The husband laughed,
    and said, ‘It looks like a dildo!’

    The man then pointed to the door and said, ‘Voodoo Penis, door!’

    The penis rose out of its box, darted over to the door and started pounding the keyhole. The whole door shook wildly with vibrations, so much that a crack began to form down the middle.

    Then the man said ‘Voodoo Penis, return to box!’ and the penis stopped and returned to the box.

    The husband bought it. He took it home to his wife, and after the husband had been gone a few days, the wife remembered the Voodoo Penis. She undressed, opened the box and said
    ‘Voodoo Penis, my cunt’. The penis shot to her crotch.

    It was absolutely incredible!!

    After three mind shattering orgasms, she became very exhausted and decided she’d had enough. She tried to pull it out, but it was stuck. Her husband had neglected to tell her how to turn it off. So she put her clothes on, got in her car and started for the hospital.

    On the way, another incredibly intense orgasm made her swerve over the road. A police officer saw this and immediately pulled her over. He asked for her license, and then asked how much she’d had to drink.

    Gasping and twitching, the woman said ‘I haven’t had anything to drink officer. You see, I’ve got this Voodoo Penis thing stuck in my crotch and it won’t stop screwing me…’

    The officer looked at her for a second, shook his head and replied , ‘Yeah right…
    Voodoo Penis, my ass…!’

    The rest, as they say, is history.

    ( I’m sure you regulars know to whom on here I would like to ‘send’ it to !)

  • Brickfields Gunners

    This says it all for me . Really !

  • Re the argument on what racism is, or is not, this site takes the view as laid down by Citizens Advice Bureau in the UK.

    A racial group means a group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality or ethnic or national origin. This includes:

    Gypsies and Travellers
    refugees and asylum seekers
    Jews and Sikhs.

    Thus today in the UK racism does not just mean discrimination against or abuse against a race but also against other nominated groups.

    Likewise a religious group in UK law is not deemed to include people with no religious belief at all.

    I would be obliged if everyone on this site could bear this in mind when commenting

  • Lizzy

    I thought the sending off of xhaka was right as the swansea player was going away from him and had no chance of winning the ball

  • Bloggs

    Many thanks Tony as I am a ‘ White northerner ‘ and there are many other northerners who support Arsenal which includes non white people

  • Pat

    Well, Walter, you have given such a complete analysis of the foul by Xhaka that you have convinced me. Thanks for going into such detail, especially as on the surface of it the foul looked so slight.

    Very disappointed that our hopes about improved refereeing are already being shattered. However, again the increased resilience and maturity of the team gave us the three points. And Wenger and the team say there are things to improve and more to come. So I am very optimistic about this season.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Interesting Walter. He certainly seemed pretty biased.
    But , we have a good record with him overall, so he is not even very good at being biased against us.
    Welcome to the Premier league Xhaka.
    Have a feeling we will be seeing even worse than Moss in big games coming up as the pgmol throw their big guns our way, especially if we are top, or near top of the league. We haven’t seen the pgmol trinity at all yet, I am sure they are being stored up . Dean vs Sputrs, Taylor vs Utd anyone?
    And there is always Atkinson.

  • Markyb

    Bollocks mate, absolute bollocks

  • Markyb

    There was a more obvious professional foul in the Palace West Ham game described by Hargreaves as ‘ a brilliant foul, taking one for the team’ double standards methinks

  • Robido

    I have just seen on Goals on Sunday Chris Kamara say that this year the instruction is that “a deliberate foul with no chance of getting the ball is a sending off” they all agree therefore it was the right decision, last year it would not have been. The Ox as guest then says to be fair it was explained to them.

    I don’t know if this is correct but if so there is no doubt and any arguments about kick v trip are rather irrelevant.

    We will have to keep an eye out for other instances where players blatantly “take one for the team”.


  • Markyb

    Ok so where was the red for the Burnley player who took out Alexis off the ball? Ref plays advantage and didn’t even book him. Another rule only applied to teams from London who wear red

  • Andy Mack

    you seem to be suggesting that a player can’t be injured without it being a foul.
    You must have played the game, so you know that’s wrong!
    How does a player get injured in a ‘warm-up’ with no contact.

  • Lizzy

    I see menace gets away with his usual babbling again this time with racism thrown in.wonder how he would react if he was called a black india loving loon ball? Would that be racist beacuse he is black ,lives in india and is a loonball??just wondering

  • Polo

    Watching Middlesbrough vs Watford and Baragan did similar to Xhaka and no second yellow, the inconsistency is outrages.

  • Leon

    Actually Menace lives in London, but comes from Mozambique. I think he travels to Goa a bit also. But he is racist to a small extent and justifies it by saying he comes from Portuguese East Africa which makes it OK.

  • Richard morgan

    Nice piece Walter, for me though card was a yellow.yes it was cynical it was late but it was in swanseas half and there were covering defenders so for me only a yellow, only a yellow because there are plenty of other incidents that players in similar positions only get yellows. Was it dangerous reckless or careless not in my opinion and xhaka was taking one for the team. Should have been a yellow especially on the refereeing standard through the game.

  • Lizzy

    No wonder menace gets confused about refereeing decisions .Im surprised he knows where he is from being an english mozambiquian indian portugese east african.Its enough to confuse anyone with half a brain cell.

  • Richard morgan

    Also it’s good to see that we can get results in games that in past we would have drawn or lost. Seems they have progressed and learnt. With Xhaka he has shown he is willing to
    Be dirty for the sake of the team and that’s nice to have a bit of that in their. My only criticism would be maybe Wenger should have reacted slightly earlier and removed iwobi for Gibbs to give monreal a bit more protection once it became obvious barrow had the beating of monreal in the second half

  • Polo

    @ Gord, as Josif pointed out. I believe Arsenal conceded 10 goals so far in all competition and at least half of those coming from the left/Monreal’s side, to me it’s a bit of a concern as opposition are targeting that side and getting success. Don’t get me wrong, Monreal is a top quality defender, I just feel the opposition have been attacking and scoring from that side with success and hopefully it could be address.

  • Gord


    I did not say you and Josif are wrong. I said that you don’t have enough data to statistically show what you propose.


    The only reason you come to Untold, is to cause problems.

  • Pat

    Lizzy, your comments are way out of order. Are you trying to be provocative? Well, if so, well done, you have certainly provoked me.

    Menace pointed out that all the refs are white. This is true. This might indicate exclusiveness in a sport where many practitioners are not. I’m inclined to think their small number and the fact that so many of them come from the same part of England is more suspicious, but I’d say you can’t rule out race as a factor. In which case, why is Menace not allowed to point that out without being abused in an unpleasant fashion?

  • Polo

    How come in the ManC vs Everton, the Coleman challenge on Sterling wasn’t given a yellow card but Xhaka a straight red? Surely Colemans tackle was more dangerous?

  • Gord


    Worded another way, the results you think you are seeing could be entirely due to chance, and there is nothing (seriously) wrong with how Monreal is playing.

    Medja, in particular

    I think the first Wenger interview blurb at yesterday said that Wenger would not be appealing Xhaka’s red card.

    And yet, WorldFootball produces a headline consistent with Wenger at first saying that Xhaka was innocent and he would appeal, and that only now he was going to accept the red card.

  • Lizzy

    You say that my comments are way out of order but are only a reaction to a poster that for far too long has gotten away with bullying others on here as well as abusing them because of their beliefs.Are you happy with his origional post calling our referees white northern cheats ?? I am a n english man who is white northern and i referee adult football so yes i find what he said offensive.What menace see’s in his little world is not what the majority of football supporters see but to go further to say that because they are white and from the north of england that makes them cheat.Most people who live in england are white so im not sure why he would use that phrase.

  • Bloggs

    Gord the reason I come onto Untold is to monitor moronic racist remarks by people such as yourself and Menace . It’s amazing how you attempt to justify some of your ramblings quite comical really, I was taught at an early age that people with discriminative views should be mocked. But if anyone agrees to highlighting the colour of someone’s skin whilst making wild allegations about them is OK then they too fall into that category. Perhaps you should now go look in the mirror! eie

  • Polo

    Here is another article on where the refs live and which team they support.

  • bushido

    @Pat, i second that my friend. some here like Menace just made a point about the referees that is obviously white, is maybe corrupt cos of how the organization itself being run in a really shady manner. instead of counter argument some take that as a chance for them to show their true nature by insulting and calling other people names. really mature some of them i told u that, by the way they act like they are more superior than other people.

  • Alex


    You nail it the thing of Xhaka.
    Also if you can ……there is a chat around arsenal forums that this season the rules in regard this kind of cynical/professional fouling had been elevated to straight red rather than yellow.

    Have you come across this changes?

  • Brickfields Gunners


    When a newspaper reporter interviewed a farmer who grew award-winning maize each year he entered his maize in the provincial agricultural fair, it was revealed that the farmer shared his seed maize with his neighbours.

    Perplexed, the reporter asked, “How can you afford to share your best seed maize with your neighbours when they are entering their maize in competition with yours each year?”

    The farmer smiled knowingly and explained, “The wind picks up pollen from the ripening maize and swirls it from field to field. If my neighbours grow inferior maize, cross-pollination will steadily degrade the quality of my maize. If I am to grow good maize, I must help my neighbours grow good maize.”

    So it is with our lives. Those who want to live meaningfully and well must help enrich the lives of others. For the value of a life, is measured by the lives it touches. And those who choose to be happy must help others find happiness, for the welfare of each is bound up with the welfare of all.

    Call it power of collectivity. Call it a principle of success. Call it a law of life. The fact remains, “None of us truly wins, until we all win.”

    In life, when you help the people around you to be good, you surely become the best.

    Always bear in mind that “Real happiness is found in helping others”.

  • Leon

    Just a few weeks ago Menace insulted an obviously Nigerian commenter by suggesting he went to the juju man. It’s not so terrible but he’s isn’t the only one getting away with it. Rosicky@Arsenal had a rant about Jews and insulted one of the female commenters who questioned him on it by telling her she was wrong not to believe in God. Can you believe that?
    Too much of it on this blog goes unchecked. But it’s no worse than most football blogs.
    And before I get criticised, yes I have an issue with distance supporters slagging Britain and British culture.

  • Gord


    Your comprehension of the universe is not as good as you think it is.

    I am not a professional whose tools are the English language. A lawyer (who practices in English) is an example of a person whose tools are the English language. I am professional whose tools are mathematics and science.

    Communities of social interaction place me at a disadvantage beyond that experienced by most people. Listening to many learned people discussing issues trying to resolve problems with discrimination often finds me hearing advice from one party that is in conflict with the advice of others. How does one classify conflicting advice, and act on it?

    Menace is a person who will stick up for people being pushed around, and I appreciate that. He is here because he supports Arsenal. He is not perfect. For my presence on Untold, he is good enough. And I will support him where others who come to Untold solely to cause problems, do so.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Always unhappy and bitching ? Angry and upset at things that are beyond your scope of comprehension and understanding ? Pissed off at people who seem always to be happy ?
    And successful ? And more in tune and always in the groove ?
    Well fret no more ! Here , in this may be the answer to all that which ails you !
    Or not !

    8 Things Happy People Do Differently!

  • Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Brickfields Gunners if i die of laughter’ you will be charged for murder. I want that voodoo penis for my wife too.

  • bushido

    @BG, thanks alot for that Trevor Noah link. i always love Trevor with the daily show and now i’m addicted to his stand up comedy. u made my day’ my friend

  • bjtgooner

    Gord @ 4.18pm


  • Bloggs

    Gord well stated so you have joined the racist gang! No problem at least people know exactly what you are and what you represent. May you enjoy a long bigoted existence and teach your offspring your moral values. Hatred is such a lonely place.

  • Arvind

    Thanks for the explanation Walter. The problem is that I have seen so many of those, specially when people dart into the box, and they are clipped from behind.. and almost always they are yellows.

    The first thing that springs to mind then is Jose Antonio Reyes.. and the thuggery in that game…

  • Arvind

    I don’t know if what Menace said was racist by a technical definition. But it doesn’t sound great when you read it. It reads as (when translated) – ‘Cheats are usually white and northern’. That was my first impression. Try for instance, going to a bar or a stadium or a restaurant and saying it ‘White northern cheats’ or ‘Black African cheats’ or ‘Brown Indian cheats.’ Doesn’t sound nice, does it?

    And I’m not white or northern, just so that’s clear. I don’t know if he meant it that way or if it was another thing lost in translation – but it does not sound great.

    This is another of a series of disturbing comments, following the ones on the homophobia thread a while ago. And really, after blaming Suarez left and right for use of the word ‘negro/negrito’ its hard to see how the above is acceptable.

    I’ve been on this site since its very early days, and lately it seems that more and more people are pushing its boundaries, just because it is Arsenal they are defending. If this continues, I think I’ll be done soon with the site.

  • Pat

    Menace may have been unwise to use the term ‘white northern cheats’. However, drawing the conclusion from that that he is saying everybody who is white and from the north is a cheat is ridiculous.

    He was referring to a group of referees whose behaviour has been questioned many times on Untold. The fact that they are overwhelmingly from the same part of England is frequently cited as a problem, not because it is the north, but because it is much easier to run an exclusive clique if they come from a similar geographical area.

    It could be legitimate to ask whether the fact that they are all white is part of this exclusive cliquishness as well. It might be.

    To use what Menace said as an excuse to then freely use abusive, anti-foreigner and racial epithets was unnecessary and unpleasant. That was what I was objecting to.

    And I can’t understand, Leon, where you get the idea that it is only Arsenal fans who live abroad who raise some of these critical questions. Having followed Untold for many years this is not the impression I get. Anyway, over the years I have greatly valued many of the comments from Arsenal fans abroad and found them interesting and refreshing.

    We live in troubled times and it is not helpful to separate Arsenal fans off from each other in that way. At least, that’s my opinion.

  • Arvind

    Whether its ridiculous or not, Pat is a matter of opinion. Would you or Menace or whoever uses those words, feel comfortable using those same words ‘ cheats’ in public, while talking about referee bias in the premier league? If yes, then yes – you are within your rights to say it is ridiculous and we can move on. If not, then I would recommend you think a little more about my comment and whether it has some merit.

    Would it not suffice to say that the referees are cheats? Was there any reason to mention their skin color and region as well? How did it add to the point being discussed?

  • Polo

    I agree with Arvind, I believe Menace comment was inappropriate whether the intent was racist or not. I usually side with Menace on most of his non-aggressive comments and some aggressive ones. I do respect his view/belief that the PGMO is corrupt or are cheats even though I don’t agree with it, but referring to people in a negative way base on their skin color, religious belief, sexuality, or gender is inappropriate and should be condemned. Last year or so a poster called Menace an ‘Indian cesspit’ and most of us on here and myself believed that was inappropriate and wrong and we collectively condemned it. I hope Menace withdraw his comment.

  • Pat

    Fair enough, Arvind and Polo. In that case I hope you also agree with my criticisms of all the other people – not yourselves obviously – who used this as an excuse to use much more unpleasant language.

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