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Ref Review Chelsea – Arsenal. Something is seriously wrong with this referee and his team

By the referee team

There are clips included in the report for every wrong decision and every major decision in red bold text

CHELSEA vs. ARSENAL

  • COMPETITION: English Premier League
  • MATCH NO. 24
  • DATE: 4th February 2017
  • VENUE: Stamford Bridge (London, England)

MATCH OFFICIALS:

REFEREE: Martin Atkinson
1st LINESMAN: Stuart Burt
2nd LINESMAN: Adam Nunn
4th OFFICIAL: Stuart Attwell

First Half

Fouls, Advantages, Cards, and Penalties

Time Foul by Foul For Notes Points
09:22 Laurent Koscienly (Arsenal) Diego Costa (Chelsea) Costa’s foot was clipped, referee failed to play advantage.

02. Kos Foul

-1 (ADVANTAGE)
09:29 Francis Coquelin (Arsenal) Victor Moses (Chelsea) Attack breaking foul committed. Foul correct given.

 

Coquelin should have been given a yellow for an attack breaking foul.

01. Coquelin Yellow

01. Coquelin Yellow002

1 (FOUL)

-2 (YELLOW CARD)

12:30 Marcos Alonso (Chelsea) Hector Bellerin (Arsenal) Alonso first makes contact with his elbow against the head of Bellerin who is knocked unconscious. Using an elbow with excessive force (knocking a player unconscious is an indication that excessive force has been used) can only result in a red card and a foul.

 

The incident was discussed in detail.

http://untold-arsenal.com/archives/59746

 

03. Bellerin Alonso Goal Foul Red

03. Bellerin Alonso Goal Foul Red002

03. Bellerin Alonso Goal Foul Red003

03. Bellerin Alonso Goal Foul Red004

03. Bellerin Alonso Goal Foul Red005

03. Bellerin Alonso Goal Foul Red006

 

-1 (FOUL)

-3 (RED CARD)

19:04 Francis Coquelin (Arsenal) Pedro Rodriguez (Chelsea) Trip. 1 (FOUL)
22:52 Shkodran Mustafi (Arsenal) Eden Hazard (Chelsea) Late Attack Breaking Tackle. 1 (FOUL)

2 (YELLOW CARD)

26:46 N’Golo Kante (Chelsea) Mesut Ozil (Arsenal) Pull (Use of Arm). 1 (FOUL)
28:54 Victor Moses (Chelsea) Nacho Monreal (Arsenal) Obstruction foul. 1 (FOUL)
29:44 N’Golo Kante (Chelsea) Alex Oxlade Chamberlain (Arsenal) Trip. 1 (FOUL)
31:06 Cesar Azpilicueta (Chelsea) Nacho Monreal (Arsenal) Trip. 1 (FOUL)
34:11 N’Golo Kante (Chelsea) Francis Coquelin (Arsenal) Careless standing tackle. 1 (FOUL)
39:19 ??? (Arsenal) ??? (Chelsea) No live footage or replay shown. Assumed correct. 1 (FOUL)
41:58 Diego Costa (Chelsea) Francis Coquelin (Arsenal) Charge from behind. 1 (FOUL)
42:44 Pedro Rodriguez (Chelsea) Mesut Ozil (Arsenal) Barge in the back of Ozil. Should have been a foul.

06. Pedro foul Ozil

-1 (FOUL)
47:46 Alex Oxlade Chamberlain (Arsenal) Eden Hazard (Chelsea) Charge from behind. 1 (FOUL)

Offsides

Time Player Offside Defending Player Notes Points
07:16 Theo Walcott (Arsenal) David Luiz (Chelsea) Correct offside by Asst. Ref Stuart Burt 1 (OFFSIDE)
20:36 Diego Costa (Chelsea) Laurent Koscienly (Arsenal) Correct offside by Asst. Ref Adam Nunn 1 (OFFSIDE)

Goals

Time Goal Scorer Notes Points
12:30 Marcos Alonso (Chelsea) Foul leading to a goal, should not have been allowed.

 

The incident was discussed in detail.

http://untold-arsenal.com/archives/59746

 

03. Bellerin Alonso Goal Foul Red

03. Bellerin Alonso Goal Foul Red002

03. Bellerin Alonso Goal Foul Red003

03. Bellerin Alonso Goal Foul Red004

03. Bellerin Alonso Goal Foul Red005

03. Bellerin Alonso Goal Foul Red006

-3 (GOAL)

Goal Kicks, Corners, and Throw-ins

Time Type Last Touch OFF Notes

First Half Referee Report

Incorrect Decisions Against Arsenal

Fouls = 2

Red Cards = 1

Goals = 1

Incorrect Decisions Against Chelsea

Advantages = 1

Yellow Cards = 1

 

Number of Correct Decisions

Fouls = 11

Yellow Cards = 1

Offsides = 2

Total = 14

Number of Incorrect Decisions

Fouls = 2

Advantages = 1

Yellow Cards = 1

Red Cards = 1

Goals = 1

Total = 5

Number of Correct Decisions (Weighted)

Fouls = 11

Yellow Cards = 2

Offsides = 2

Total = 15

Number of Incorrect Decisions (Weighted)

Fouls = 2

Advantages = 1

Yellow Cards = 2

Red Cards = 3

Goals = 3

Total = 11

 

 

First Half Correct Decision Percentage = Total Correct Decisions / Total Decisions (Correct + Incorrect) = 14/(14+5) = 73.6%

 

 First Half Correct Decision Percentage (WEIGHTED) = Total Correct Decisions / Total Decisions (Correct + Incorrect) = 15/(15+11) = 57.6%

 

Second Half

Fouls, Advantages, Cards, and Penalties

Time Foul by Foul For Notes Points
48:04 Victor Moses (Chelsea) Alexis Sanchez (Arsenal) Trip. 1 (FOUL)
52:37 Francis Coquelin (Arsenal) Eden Hazard (Chelsea) Attempt to trip. 1 (ADVANTAGE)
54:37 Shkodran Mustafi (Arsenal) Diego Costa (Chelsea) Jumped in back. 1 (FOUL)
55:30 N’Golo Kante (Chelsea) Alex Oxlade Chamberlain (Arsenal) High foot. 1 (FOUL)
58:06 Diego Costa (Chelsea) Francis Coquelin (Arsenal) Arm pull. 1 (FOUL)
58:06 Diego Costa (Chelsea) Francis Coquelin (Arsenal) Late trip. 1 (FOUL)
66:30 Theo Walcott (Arsenal) Nemanja Matic (Chelsea) Fell down on Matic’s foot. 1 (FOUL)
69:56 Nemanja Matic (Chelsea) Danny Welbeck (Arsenal) Attack breaking late trip. 1 (FOUL)

2 (YELLOW CARD)

70:39 Cesar Azpilicueta (Chelsea) Alexis Sanchez (Arsenal) Charge from front. 1 (FOUL)
72:48 Gabriel Paulista (Arsenal) Eden Hazard (Chelsea) This looked more like shielding for position to stop the player coming from behind. Note that in the first clip that at first Atkinson doesn’t even call a foul but only gives a foul when Hazard is lying on the floor holding his head. So in this case the ref only punished the outcome not even the foul.

 

A yellow card should have been given as no excessive force was used in this case.

 

07. Gabriel Hazard Elbow

07. Gabriel Hazard Elbow002

1 (FOUL)

-2 (YELLOW CARD)

78:18 Victor Moses (Chelsea) Danny Welbeck (Arsenal) Trip. 1 (FOUL)
83:47 Cesc Fabregas (Chelsea) Alex Oxlade Chamberlain (Arsenal) Late trip. 1 (FOUL)

Offsides

Time Player Offside Defending Player Notes Points
57:22 Nacho Monreal (Arsenal) ??? (Chelsea) No replay. Assumed Correct offside by Asst. Ref Adam Nunn. 1 (OFFSIDE)
71:29 ??? (Arsenal) ??? (Chelsea) No replay. Assumed Correct offside by Asst. Ref Adam Nunn. 1 (OFFSIDE)
76:21 Diego Costa (Chelsea) Gabriel Paulista (Arsenal) Correct offside by Asst. Ref Stuart Burt. 1 (OFFSIDE)

Goals

Time Goal Scorer Notes Points
52:42 Eden Hazard (Chelsea) Clean goal. 3 (GOAL)
84:47 Cesc Fabregas (Chelsea) Clean goal. 3 (GOAL)
90:08 Olivier Giroud (Arsenal) Clean goal. 3 (GOAL)

Goal Kicks, Corners, and Throw-ins

Time Type Last Touch OFF Notes

Second Half Referee Report

Incorrect Decisions Against Arsenal

Nil

Incorrect Decisions Against Chelsea

Yellow Cards = 1

 

Number of Correct Decisions

Fouls = 11

Advantages = 1

Yellow Cards = 1

Offsides = 3

Goals = 3

Total = 19

Number of Incorrect Decisions

Yellow Cards = 1

Total = 1

Number of Correct Decisions (Weighted)

Fouls = 11

Advantages = 1

Yellow Cards = 2

Offsides = 3

Goals = 9

Total = 26

Number of Incorrect Decisions (Weighted)

Yellow Cards = 2

Total = 2

 

 Second Half Correct Decision Percentage = Total Correct Decisions / Total Decisions (Correct + Incorrect) = 19/(19+1) = 95.0%

 

 Second Half Correct Decision Percentage (WEIGHTED) = Total Correct Decisions / Total Decisions (Correct + Incorrect) = 26/(26+2) = 92.8%

 

Full Time (1st Half + 2nd Half) Referee Report

Incorrect Decisions Against Arsenal

Fouls = 2

Red Cards = 1

Goals = 1

Incorrect Decisions Against Chelsea

Advantages = 1

Yellow Cards = 2

 

Number of Correct Decisions

Fouls = 22

Advantages = 1

Yellow Cards = 2

Offsides = 5

Goals = 3

Total = 33

Number of Incorrect Decisions

Fouls = 2

Advantages = 1

Yellow Cards = 2

Red Cards = 1

Goals = 1

Total = 6

Number of Correct Decisions (Weighted)

Fouls = 22

Advantages = 1

Yellow Cards = 4

Offsides = 5

Goals = 9

Total = 41

Number of Incorrect Decisions (Weighted)

Fouls = 2

Advantages = 1

Yellow Cards = 4

Red Cards = 3

Goals = 3

Total = 13

 

 Full Match Correct Decision Percentage = Total Correct Decisions / Total Decisions (Correct + Incorrect) = 33/(33+6) = 84.6%

 

 Full Match Correct Decision Percentage (WEIGHTED) = Total Correct Decisions / Total Decisions (Correct + Incorrect) = 41/(41+13) = 75.9%

 

APPENDIX

Key Decisions in the Match Points
Advantage 1
Foul 1
Incorrect Corner 1
Incorrect Goal Kick 1
Incorrect Throw-in 1
Other (Ref Positioning, Injuries, Time Wasting, etc.) 1
Offside 1
Yellow Card 2
Red Card 3
Goal 3
Penalty 3

 

NOTE: FOR ANY WRONG DECISION MADE THERE WILL BE NEGATIVE POINTS AWARDED FOR THAT SPECIFIC KIND OF EVENT.

NOTE: ANY INCORRECT OR WRONG DECISION/NON-DECISION WILL BE HIGHLIGHTED WITH A RED COLOUR.

NOTE: ANY DECISION THAT INVOLVES DOUBT IS HIGHLIGHTED AS BLUE IN COLOR.

NOTE: The word ‘FOR’ is used to show IN FAVOR OF.

NOTE: All the Laws Of The Game used are referenced directly from the following link. “LAWS OF THE GAME 2016-2017”

http://static-3eb8.kxcdn.com/documents/60/Laws%20of%20the%20Game_16-17_Digital_Eng.pdf

 

First of all you might have noticed that some changes have been made to the review format. It should make it easier to read.

Now on to the ref…

And Martin Atkinson was the ref. A ref who in the past has been known for giving goals against Arsenal that should have been cancelled. And the old monkey was up to the same old tricks again it seems.

But before the first goal a first yellow card was not given. Another one of his poor things as we have highlighted over the years. Coquelin should have been booked when he brought down Moses who was on a promising run but close to the side line.

But then came the big mistake that changed the match completely.  Chelsea scored a goal that should have been cancelled for a dangerous foul from Alonso. Alonso used his elbow to knock out Bellerin and then scored with a header. The use of the elbow with excessive force was clear to see on the clips. And if this had been a first time that Atkinson gave a goal after a foul on a defender we could say it was an honest mistake. But if this is the umpteenth time (and also a few times in the same match in the past….) then you wonder if this is not a deliberate mistake.

If the same “error” happens over and over again and always with the same team on the receiving end….then, Mike Riley, something is seriously wrong with this referee and this team. But with all the refs leaving the PL we are going to get him over and over and over again.

And not only gave Atkinson the goal but Alonso should have been given a red card. So after 12 minutes Arsenal lost an important player for their attacking force but also was a goal down.

After 12 minutes it should have been 0-0 and Chelsea down to 10 men. Would this have changed the match? Of course it would have changed the match completely. But Atkinson did his trick again and put Chelsea in the driving seat. Not for the first time in his career and not for the first time in a match Chelsea – Arsenal.

But after having done just that… he started to do his job in a normal way. And only making one error during the rest of the first half. So with not many decisions to make he got an average first half score of 73.6% and 57.6% (Weighted): average and poor. The weighted score is very poor of course with the error surrounding the first Chelsea goal.

And having done the damage in the first half the ref had no need to get in the spotlight again. In fact we only saw one error in the second half. And that was an error that tasted bad in the mouth looking back at the first goal from Chelsea. Gabriel challenging for the ball with Hazard caught Hazard in the face with his arm. A foul but at first Atkinson didn’t even spot the foul as he just jogged on. But only when Hazard was on the floor holding his head he suddenly called a foul. But then he didn’t give a yellow card against Gabriel. And that was ridiculous to be honest. No excessive force was used in this case as it was more a standing foul with both players contesting the ball while not running. So there was no jumping involved, just the arm moving against the face of Hazard. But surely a yellow card should have been given.

But it felt bad because in this case he also clearly missed the foul but in this case the ref called a foul purely based on the fact that a player was down holding his head. Well one might say that Bellerin didn’t hold his head after being knocked out by the elbow of Alonso…so next time Bellerin when unconscious do still hold your head….

But for the rest an almost faultless second half that resulted in this score second half = 95.0% and 92.8% (Weighted) Excellent

The overall score over the 90 minutes was:  84.6% and 75.9% (Weighted) Good.

There were 2 wrong major decisions : 1 wrong goal against Arsenal and 1 Red Card not given against Alonso.

And I think it is fair to say that those 2 wrong decisions made a big difference in the final outcome of the match. I wonder if Arsenal had played against 10 Chelsea players for 80 minutes the result might have been a bit different?

A final note from me: if you don’t agree with referee reviews I dont’ mind. But if you want to challenge referee reviews I really would ask you to do this using the laws of the game. Saying something is rubbish is easy but is worth nothing. Explaining why something is rubbish using the laws of the game will help your argument.


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43 comments to Ref Review Chelsea – Arsenal. Something is seriously wrong with this referee and his team

  • MickHazel

    Every time I see the Alonso challenge it gets worse.
    It is inexplicable that Atkinson didn’t see it as a foul.

  • Mike T

    According to the Opta stats quoted on Sky there were 372 descions made on the day.
    Surprised no mention of the two handed push on Costa by Bellerin immediately before the goal

  • WalterBroeckx

    Mike T,
    Maybe because there is no two handed push to see on the images. Have a look. I really cannot see a two handed push.
    Costa and Bellerin both use their arms a bit. Costa probably to hold of Bellerin to make room for himself and Bellerin probably to try to push Costa a bit. If you have been reading the reviews in the past you would have known that when both players commit a push/shoving foul they verdict is no foul.
    I also would point out that we can only revert a decision of the ref on the field when we have clear evidence that the ref was wrong. Are you suggesting that this was a 100% penalty foul on Costa? Not based on our images is our conclusion.

    Whereas for the elbow on Bellerin… well there is 100% conclusive evidence of the elbow hitting the face before the ball is played.

    There are 6 clips but not one shows a clear two handed push of Bellerin. When I slow down the images you can see that one arm from Bellerin is in front of his own body. Not sure that the left arm of Bellerin is long enough to go past his own body and then can make a push on Costa.

    Maybe you could answer the question if the match might have turned differently if the goal was disallowed and Alonso was red carded?

  • WalterBroeckx

    Mike T,
    I give you that you have a bit of class that other Chelsea fans don’t have.
    After first throwing some insults one even suggesting that Bellerin attacked the arm of Alonso….

  • Mike T

    Walter

    I have seen the replays several times and in my opinion there is no doubt Bellerin pushed Costa. It suits your view to suggest there wasn’t but he clearly tries to effect Costa.
    Would the game have changed? possibly but the fact that so many pundits, and ex refs can’t agree one way or the other suggests to me that the Alison incident is far from as clear cut as the review suggests

  • Menace

    Surprising! The fact that so many in footballs Associations are corrupt has no bearing on anything. Bellerin was attacked in an open sporting contest & no response from Police or any authority. It was attempted murder in all honesty & we should all be glad that Bellerin survived.

  • OlegYch

    Mike T, can you perhaps give us a video replay of what have happened between Costa and Bellerin?
    i have a full recording of the match, but there is no clear footage of that episode as you can’t really tell what Costa or Bellerin are doing there

  • ob1977

    Another great review…
    Mike T I also have seen replays several times and I think you are completely wrong, Bellerin and Costa are simply jostling for the ball and there is definitely nothing shown to prove otherwise, and quite frankly to suggest that pundits talk anything other than bull is laughable.

    Another point I noticed on the replays this time is that Hazard even stops for a split second as he turns, possibly expecting a foul, before he then runs off celebrating.

  • finsbury

    Was this incident that the guest fails to describe or provide any images or videos as reference similar to the incident last season which Mike dean saw which led to the, predictable as in predicted, sending off of Gabriel for being fouled in the corresponding fixture last season? 😉

    *gollum gollum*

  • finsbury

    Thank you for the reviews as always.

    No doubt many Southampton fans are amongst those football fans who appreciate the work and now the record going back several seasons.

  • Changed name

    NOTE: the nom de plume of this writer has been changed since that chosen was the name of a famous individual involved in sport, and using this name could be misleading. A note to everyone, where we spot the name of another person being used as a nom de plume we will either change it or delete the post.

    phew..that was some indepth read.
    The main point is obviously the Bellerin/Alonso incident which just about every professional pundit and ex refs clearly agree with the referee of this match.
    Alonso’s arm didnt come across and smash Bellerins head..infact his arm was already out there and it looked a fair 50/50 where Bellerin was outjumped and the damage he caused to himself seemed to be the awkward way he landed.

  • finsbury

    Elbow in the head is a foul in Rugby Football.

    Anyone failing to argue upon a public forum that elbows to the head are allowed in association football is…well: 🙂

  • Alex

    Why bothering? The problem of Arsenal is Özil, right? Even the fans sing it now in a joyful manner.

  • Alex please supply evidence to the effect that the problem of Arsenal is Ozil.

  • Mandy Dodd

    It has got to a bad situation where we can not only predicting the refs actions, but we can pretty much predict the refs themselves for Arsenals key games. Mike Dean for the Spuds, Taylor for Utd anyone?
    I know he is no quitter, but I wouldn’t blame Wenger walking away, he must know that Riley’s arrival has led to his team being cheated in countless games

  • Mandy Dodd

    NDP, he landed awkwardly because he had been knocked out

  • MickHazel

    Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
    However some of these opinions are so ridiculous that there is a case to be made for denying this long accepted principle for certain people. Starting with NDP.

  • Usama Zaka

    Mandy,

    Taylor has already appeared in at least 5 games involving Utd in all comps, that is with 12 games still remaining. I wouldn’t be surprised if Riley sends him against us vs Utd with DVD copies of the Game 50 “Go on son, make your boss proud”

  • Mike T

    Oleg

    I recorded the game so it’s Sky coverage. If you have that coverage it’s pretty clear Bellerin pushed Costa.
    ob1977
    That’s fine I think you are wrong and you think I am wrong

    Mandy
    The interesting thing is that if he had been knocked out did Arsenal exercise duty of care inallowing him to train and then play in7 days?
    No matter what any may think about Arsenal I can’t see any situation where they would have rushed him back from an injury where he either lost consciousness or indeed was concussed.I suspect that he didnt loose consciousness and to a degree that view is supported by Wengers comment along the lines that he was removed from the game too early

  • OlegYch

    Mike T, if you look at the clips in this article it’s pretty obvious that Bellerin was concussed, and as a result he didn’t train for several days
    honestly i’m amazed how your vision is different from everyone elses

  • Usama Zaka

    One of the main reasons of the rise of Sports Medicine as a field of its own during late 90’s and early 2000’s was concussion. With the amount of research and progress made on concussions, there are still grey areas for a general doctor. An individual may seem to feel fine after a week or two, but gets progressively more prone to a similar concussions, even on light impact.

    As for Wenger, Bellerin and Arsenal…

    1. Wenger said that from his view, from the Chelsea VIP Box, Bellerin looked okay to him, but forced to remove him on AFC Medic’s judgement.
    2. Wenger always has said that he never forces a player with niggling injury to play or removes him from play if he thinks the player is injured. (He says that he follows the medical staff’s advice and the player’s own feeling).

    3. Bellerin may be feeling fine in the last weeks or so (which is good) and maybe thinks that injury is gone, but AFC should not take this lightly. The club must take close care of this injury (even if it seems fine).

    4. With flying elbows and donkey kicks in the EPL ever present, a Cech-style headgear for Bellerin should be made obligatory to minimize any impact.

  • Mike T why worry you got the three points ( important part ) your top of the Prem , you will most likely win the league and your manager has been an absolute success .
    Throw in Hazard is fecking brilliant . One might be excused for thinking were all a little Jealous . Well at least some of the Untold crew for sure !

  • OlegYch

    Shoot, speak for yourself

  • Mike T

    Oleg

    Not sure of the exact numbers but it’s about only 1 in 10 cases of concussion that the individual looses consciousness. Mandy said he had been knocked out I said I didn’t think he had.
    If Bellerin had suffered a concussion he is not allowed under the GRTP protocol allowed to return to full training for 5 days as a minimum or put another way the first time he would even be allowed to take part in full training would have been pm on Thursday. It’s not the norm nowadays for any player that has suffered a documented concussion in the pl to play just 2 days after the minimum time . Concussion is far too a hot topic to take risks

  • Mike T

    Shoot

    You have a point but hey I enjoy the debate/ exchanges (delete as appropriate)
    I am not sure it’s jealousy for most on here my guess is that it’s more about trying to attribute blame for at times we all want it to be someone’s else’s fault

  • OlegYch

    Mike T, Bellerin said he was hit in the jaw, and not in the forehead, so i guess it was a mild case of concussion
    it’s fair to assume the minimum time exists exactly for such cases

  • Mike T

    Oleg

    In the protocol no differentiation is made between a mild or indeed any type of concussion. A concussion is a brain injury full stop.

  • Zedsaunt

    It was bad enough seeing it happen on the day, now it’s horrific. Arsenal should have walked off. This isn’t a sport, it’s a circus. Nobody has to work under those conditions.

    If the referees cannot be trusted to enforce the same football laws in every country with a consistent interpretation, then all physical contact in the game should be banned. Alonso was reckless and out of control.

    Twenty years from now medical researchers will look at that same footage and ask how it was ever allowed.

  • omgarsenal

    I saw the incident clearly and Alonso’s arm was in a dangerously elevated position but there was no clear effort to hit Bellerin as they jumped together, the movement of his arm was not normal….therefore it was dangerous but not violent conduct. Tackles ,in the air or on the ground MUST be only shoulder to shoulder.Dangerous play is always a foul and should have been whistled back….therefore no goal.
    Did the landing cause Bellerin’s injury, the arm and the subsequent har fall or just the contact with the arm….it is all a moot point as Bellerin was clearly mildly concussed but AFC have doctors who know exactly what to do with concussed players…
    Until you’ve officiated at this level, it is very difficult to judge what is or isn’t a deliberate serious foul or dangerous foul play so don’t rely on pundits and ex-players to tell you what has happened as they don’t know the Laws and rarely bother to reference them.

  • Tom

    1.If a reasonable person looked at the slow motion replay of the
    Alonso/ Bellerin play, they should be able to come to conclusion that if you apply the rules to the letter, it should’ve been a foul.

    2.If the same reasonable person looked at where the referee was at the moment of Alonso’s elbow making contact with Bellerin’s jaw, they would have to conclude the referee couldn’t possibly have seen it, as he was unsighted by Alonso’s frame.

    3.If the same reasonable person who knows anything about football, looked at the reaction of five Arsenal players who were all closer to the play than the referee himself, they would conclude Arsenal players didn’t see anything wrong with the play either, and that included Cech who was literally right in front of it.

    Demanding ref to give a red card for something he couldn’t have seen, when no referee who’s seen it since thought it was a red card( outside of this forum), is unreasonable.

  • Zeds did you ever watch any football from the 70s , players like Norman ( bite yer legs ) Hunter , a Billy Bremner , Tommy Smith , Hollins of Chesea . Now these Fuckers were violent , today’s lot are pussy cats in comparison .

  • Tom

    It’s important of course to ask for the red card for Alonso for the argument’s sake. If your argument is that Arsenal lost the game because of the referee that is.

  • Zedsaunt

    I sarted watching football in 1954. Watched it live, watched it on the screen, ever since. I saw Billy Bremner playing for Scotland in Copenhagen about 1973 and he was the walking example of someone so pumped up, so full of aggression my brother, who subsequently took a coaching badge in Denmark, and myself still discuss what drugs he was on.

  • Mike T

    Omg
    You are right about pundits and the laws but and a big but if we had video refs then based on the fact that the likes of Dermot Galleger and indeed Mark Halsey who would most likely be the off field official and know the laws and have officiated at the highest level have stated publically that they didn’t see a foul.
    As I say time after time its in the opinion of the ref

  • Tommo

    Atkinson has a lot to answer for. Had Coquelin been booked on 9 minutes like he should have been, then the history timeline would have taken a different path, and the whole Alonso incident and goal would never have happened.

    My take on it all then is whether arsenal had still played 11 versus 11 for 81 minutes from 0-0, would the result have been different?

    Answers on a postcard.

  • Sievezone

    Hello Walter, in regards to the Alonso-Bellerin challenge that you said had excessive force and Alonso should be sent off, what is your view on Gary Cahill’s head cracking Ryan Mason’s head? Should that be considered excessive force? Just wanted your opinion.

    My friend who’s a ref keeps telling me Alonso’s arm is not in an unnatural position, so no foul.

  • Menace

    Sievezone – this added bollocks of natural or unnatural position is just another way of saying ‘I don’t know fuck all! The arm is pivoted on the shoulder & as long as it is connected, it is in a natural position. The elbow when used to lead a leap towards the head of an opponent is a foul & a red card. If it does not connect it is a call for the ref. If it does connect, it is a red card or an arrest warrant from a policeman for GBH & attempted murder.

  • Never knowingly one to go over the top . That’s Menace !

  • Sievezone

    Menace, I mostly agree and would not have thought twice if not for my friend being a professional ref in European lower leagues. He also said the Sanchez ‘handgoal’ should have been a handball. My main concern is that the rule book is perhaps too vague?

  • Zedsaunt

    Mike T posts

    ”but and a big but if we had video refs”

    1) The video refs would have to be credible.

    2) The inconsistencies between referees in their decisions would be ironed out beforehand so that the decisions from the video technology could be credible

    3)For the inconsistencies to be ironed out there would need to be, beforehand, the accepted interpretation of the laws rolled out to each referee, and the necessary training given to each referee in the application of that interpretation.

    4)For that interpretation to lead to credible decisions from the technology, the interpretation would have to be commensurate with the general standard of interpretation across Europe. The EPL cannot stand alone in interpretation when video technology will be used across Europe and all football has the same laws.

    5)The decison reached by the video referee will be in answer to a question – was that a goal? Was that a foul? Was that off-side?

    6) That answer has to be credible.It takes place in the game. It has to gain the trust of the public.

    7)For the video technology to gain the trust of the public, the decisions have to be coherent game by game. The narrative generated by each decision has to make sense, game by game, and through the decision making in each game.

    8) To make sense and provide a coherent narrative and so therefor be trustworthy, thereby making the game credible, each referee will have operate with as little of their own indvidual bias coming into their decision making as possible.

    9) With the introduction of video technology the referee is no longer paramount. The laws of football become paramount, the video technology and the referees there on the pitch to exercise the laws of football, the body of decision making the body of football law.

    10) Ex-referees, pundits, ex-managers, will be measured with the introduction of this tehnology.

    These are massive changes. Obviously obstructions will be made at every turn but with the depths of the corruption in the administration of football, football might find the introduction of video technology offers the most immediate gain in the reputation of football, and it would cost little. Who would defend Riley and company?

  • Mike T

    Zedsaunt
    Interesting comment but having read what is being rolled out in the trials and indeed the fears the International Board have I suspect you are going to be disappointed as to what the VR will look at and indeed it’s limitations
    Only 4 areas are thought to be appropriate one is mistaken identity, another penalties , a third is red card incidents , and the 4th goals.
    In the club World Club Cup play continued for a full 3 minutes following an incident before play was brought back this type of delay if mirrored will if my reading of the trials is correct, lead to VR being limited to areas where there is a definitive such as the ball being out of play.

  • bjtgooner

    Usama/Walter, a good review.

    I not really surprised at the continued bollocks talked by the aaaa and Chelski fans – nothing new there!

    Chelski can play some good football when so inclined, but they are really masters of the push, pull, obstruction, dive, roll on the turf, two footed tackle, mobing the ref and …. leading elbow. All fouls being committed in the most professional manner!

    As for Atkinson – incompetent!!

  • WalterBroeckx

    Tom,
    the ref reviews are not about what a reasaonble person would have seen. The ref review is the kind of thing that might happen if a video ref was active.

    By now you should know that we base our decisions on all the images at our disposal (not as much as a video ref would have!).

    If anything our reviews show how important a video ref can be.

    If the ball a few seasons ago crossed the goal line but the reasonable ref couldn’t see it… then it still is an error/mistake/foul/wrong decision from the ref.
    Goal line technology has helped a lot (in Holland it decided the match between Feyenoord and PSV) with a ball that had just crossed the line and was impossible to see for the ref or assistant.
    If I would have been a PSV supporter I would have been sad about the decision but would accept it.

    That is what should happen to other important decisions also in the future.