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Jon Toral, pure filth, Bjorn Engels, and journalists who forget and think we do too.

By Tony Attwood

Football journalists can be most annoying people, and this for three reasons.  They don’t tell us what’s going on, except when they do tell us and then they get it wrong.  And they can’t count.

Fortunately occasionally someone emerges who while still not telling us what is going on, does at least make one stop for a moment.   As with the website www.thickaccent.com which ran the headline “Rangers goalie Wes Foderingham offering match tickets in exchange of some interior designing on Facebook”.

Looking further I then found this headline…

“Pure filth from Emerson Hyndman before Jon Toral’s goal for Rangers v Partick Thistle (Video)”

Jon Toral you will remember is an attacking midfielder on loan from Arsenal.   He started out with Barcelona, and spent 2014/15 on loan with Brentford, then going to Birmingham and the first half of this season with Granada.

He got 34 games with Brentford, 36 with Birmingham, only five with Granada (where there seem to have been problems) and now nine thus far with Rangers.

So that is the headline and I must say I did enjoy the headline.  It is at least entertaining.   I mean we know it is going to be untrue because football headlines are always untrue, but still it is different and amusingly so.   When I looked at the site one reader had written in and said that it was a misleading headline because there was no pure filth in the story.  Can’t please them all.

On the annoying side of things there is the issue of what happens to a story about possible match fixing a couple of days after it occurred.  At the moment we have the headline “This robbery can’t happen.”   And below that the article,“When Madrid got scared, the referee began his show,” said Vidal. “This robbery can’t happen in the Champions League. We felt it a lot and you start to wonder a bit.  It is all about Real Mad and Bayern M.

“We wanted to go through and there’s a lot of anger in that a match of such intensity is decided by the referee. He made a lot of mistakes and knocked us out of the Champions League. When [referees] embarrass you like that, it’s really hard to take. It makes you very angry.”

That was in the Guardian, while the Telegraph remains a little more laid back with Real Madrid 4 Bayern 2 (6-3 on agg)Ref decisions take centre stage despite Ronaldo hat-trick.

But what is forgotten is the anger and outrage about the referee performance in the Barcelona v PSG match just a short while before. By removing that from the context the newspapers refuse to give us the evidence that something really might well be amiss with all this football lark.  Two very high profile Champs League games where the referee’s performance appears … what shall I call it… “forgetful”.  Forgetful in that he forgot what the rules said.

Worse what we now get is headlines that suggest that everything was ok with that Barcelona match.  Headlines such as “Barcelona can conjure another miracle against Juventus, says Neymar” and ‘”We did it once and we can do it a second time” says Barcelona forward.’

As always of course Untold doesn’t have the machinery to prove there is something odd going on in these particular games, but it does seem that the results are getting odder and odder – and the accusations are growing by the week.   Plus the fact that although the journalists won’t comment on issues of continuity they are at least being forced to make some sort of comment.

As for today’s transfer news, there is only one bit.  Everyone is just repeating yesterday’s and the day before’s.  Can the window be over already?  Has the imagination of the media finally run it’s course?  Is it over before it began?

Probably.  But for completeness here is the one single new transfer story since the last roundup

Bjorn Engels

He is a defender with Club Brugge and his story is all over the Metro, Mirror, TalkSport and the rest.  Everton are also interested but it is Arsenal that he is coming to.  Honest.  I know it is true.  I read it in the papers.

He has played over 60 times for Club Brugge and has a brother named Manice and is in a relationship with his partner, Evangalitsa, whom he had been dating for three years.  Just in case you wanted to know.

Elsewhere

101 comments to Jon Toral, pure filth, Bjorn Engels, and journalists who forget and think we do too.

  • ClockEndRider

    Pity poor Bayern who are never helped by referees…..oh how quickly they forget.

  • Alex

    Brilliant read, as always. I watched yesterday’s match. Bayern got robbed. It seems Real Mad and Farca can get away with murder. Remember certain Dutch skunk being sent off for shooting half a second after a whistle? All that is very damaging for football and with all the money involved nobody admits there could be a problem with corruption, better sweep it under the carpet.

  • MickHazel

    Quite right ClockEndRider, let’s not feel too sorry for Bayern. It must have come as a shock though playing on a pitch tilted away from them rather than tilted toward them.
    I think they have received more than their fair share of favours from refs in the past when we and many other teams have played against them.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Only when being on the wrong end of referee decisions and losing then they notice… but when they benefit from it they dont.
    I hear two offside goals and one wrong sending off….

    Ref was Kassai… whom I despise for many many many years since his ‘show’ in Braga-Arsenal some seasons ago.
    And who has been rubbish much of the time when I saw him later on. But Bussacca (yeah him) believes in him…. wonder why?

  • Alexanderhenry

    Another article about transfer rumours and bad refereeing.
    Blaming poor refereeing decisions for arsenal’s poor form is very lame I’m afraid. It’s embarrassing in fact.
    On transfer rumours, I’m not sure what you’re complaining about. I like transfer rumours and so do most other fans.
    When arsenal is linked to exciting player, it excites.
    Why not cover some of the more serious- and more interesting – issues at arsenal.
    Here are some suggestions:

    1. Wenger’s contract. Will he sign? Is there an actual offer on the table?

    2. Gazidis. What does it mean when he talks about being a ‘catalyst for change’?
    What sort orphanage can we expect next season.

    3. Kroenke and son. So far we’ve heard nothing from Stan – as usual and we know Josh likes Thierry Henry.
    To what extent is kroenke actually committed to arsenal?

  • Goonermikey

    I’m certainly going to have 50p on a 4-0 Barca win tonight……………

  • Leon

    It would be helpful if all of the football associations were to remove the gags on players/ managers/coaches etc criticising referee performances. Not much chance of course, but if one of the players/coaches/managers challenged this in law under a freedom of speech challenge (they could afford to after all) and got a positive judgement then the genie would be out of the bottle, and we’d see more headlines.

  • Goonermikey

    @ Alexanderhenry

    So you’d rather speculate about stuff about which you have no knowledge but are happy to criticise referee reviews which are one of the few bits of scientific research you’re likely to find in football……………..and you call ref reviews embarrassing!

    It is far too simplistic to suggest UA is blaming referees for our poor form. It is quite reasonable, on the basis of evidence however, to propose that poor refereeing plays a significant part in the outcome of our games.

    For me the answer is obvious, for those who simply prefer unsubstantiated gossip, speculation and mindless opinion over evidence I suggest they don’t bother coming to UA.

  • alexanderhenry

    Goonermikey

    Every other article on here seems to be about poor refereeing and hints at a wider anti arsenal conspiracy amongst refs. It’s sour grapes.
    Also, Untold seems to have an odd attitude to transfer rumours. Rumours about players are part of the game. They are applied to all teams. I have no idea why this site objects to them. I like it when good players are linked to arsenal.

    Where ‘speculation’ is concerned, in case you haven’t noticed, there is a crisis at arsenal football club. As follows:

    1. There is an increasingly acrimonious schism among arsenal fans concerning the manager.

    2. The club have been disappointing this season after spending substantially in summer. Arsenal will not finish top four.

    3. The communication between the arsenal BOD and fans is appalling. Keeping us in the dark while they dither is disrespectful and negligent.

    4. Our best player looks likely to leave.

    There’s more…but personally I think arsenal fc has been mismanaged for years, specifically since 2007 which is when a certain Mr Kronke got involved.

    Have a look at his record. Not only has he been an awful owner of arsenal, but he is an awful owner of all his other teams.

    There is no commitment from him to winning. The only thing he is committed to is profit.

    Arsenal are going nowhere with him in charge.

  • nicky

    Ive a funny feeling juve will put barca out..Lets hope so.

  • Hunter13

    Alexanderhenry ….so you think xhaka’s two reds were on merit?

    How about sending Wenger off for ‘pushing’ …lol..

    Listen idiot…we play most of our game on the intiative and mostly inside the opposition area and we dont get penalties. You find that normal? And then refs too happy to give one to opposition for the slightest of contacts? When cazorlas ankles have been smashed and alexis is grabbed and thrown to the floor ala charlie adams?

    Alonso on bellerin? no foul ?

    Arsenal mismanaged? sitting next to Real Madrid and Manchestr United in terms of revenue? Does you family have many clever sons like you i wonder…..

    Maybe…maybe..if the refs called a fair and equal contest i wouldnt need kroenke or any fuckign kroenke to ‘commit to winning’ …the team would be doing that even with denilson and song…. why? because we have a manager who understands and knows football and knows how to build squads to compete at the highest of levels.

    You shame the name of Alexander the Great. Delete it please form your avatar/nicknamke. i want to throw up . go away.

  • Gord

    Granada was (I believe) bought by a consortium shortly before picking up Toral on loan. I think I caught onto this, because one of the owners in that consortium was a Canadian who was a pretty good soccer player (as was his brother), but he was a better basketball player (Steve Nash, two time NBA Most Valuable Player). It would be interesting to find out what went wrong there. Maybe they were getting consulting advice from one of the commenters above me?

  • OlegYch

    FIFA could easily start collecting stats on refs performances in certain teams games (like untold does)
    they review every game and produce a score for refs after all

    after some minor corruption incidents our local football federation (Belarus) started producing referee reviews in video format for major incidents, but when asked if they can make entirety of their reviews and appointments process public refused citing FUFA rules

  • Hunter13

    ‘1. There is an increasingly acrimonious schism among arsenal fans concerning the manager.’

    Caused by who? Media and trolls ! If you want to listen to trolls instead of trusting and believing your manager who has been there for 20 years then youre the one with the schism in the brain amigo….

    ‘2. The club have been disappointing this season after spending substantially in summer. Arsenal will not finish top four.’

    So what? First time ever in twenty years where we can genuinely say ”oh shit this season we fucked up big time’ 1 in 20…i ll take that.

    ‘3. The communication between the arsenal BOD and fans is appalling. Keeping us in the dark while they dither is disrespectful and negligent.’

    Lol..the naivety here is staggering. Normally i should pity and ignore you but ialso feel you need a lesson and to be embarassed. Arsenal is a business. Shocking i know. When you buy Arsenal or any business and i come like a drunken fool to protest for no reason and shout at you for ‘getting it wrong’ you will possibly send bouncers out to take care of me. We are fans..not partners in the business to know the ins and outs.

    ‘4. Our best player looks likely to leave.’

    Where? When? Going with media gossip again like girls reading hallo magazine? if and when they leave we shall deal with it.

    I cna not believe such cretins exist in our support base and that they are gaining fame via trollstations and media willing to stick knive into wenger. You alexander and your miserable lot are giving them all the ammunition they need.

  • Pat

    These errors in two important Champions League matches are very suspicious. It is disturbing how this sort of thing just carries on happening. Suggests corruption at a very high level.

  • alexanderhenry

    Hunter13

    No need to be so insulting. I thought this was a blog where you can have healthy debate and differences in opinion without resorting to childish name calling.

    There is a crisis at arsenal though. You can dismiss it and choose to ignore it if you like but it’s there alright.

    Anyway,
    I am actually a wenger fan. I think he has done an outstanding job at arsenal especially when you accept he’s had less resources to work with.
    The lack of resources is and has been the main issue though, not wenger himself. I believe Stan Kroenke is worst thing that has happened to arsenal football club. As I said before have a look at his record. He has been remarkably unsuccessful and is universally disliked.
    Since he took over the share price at arsenal has doubled, we have a record amount of cash hoarded in the bank, the fans have been paying off the stadium debt and Mr Kroenke has not had to invest any of his own billions in the club. it’s a disgrace.

  • Nitram

    alexanderhenry

    All you want is a ‘sugar daddy’ to buy you trophies. Fine, if that’s what you want.

    But why not just come out and say it ?

    It would save you a lot a time writing, a me a lot time reading, time alas I’m never going to get back.

  • Polo

    @ Hunter13, besides the insults towards Alexander, I totally agree with all your points.

    It’s funny how a certain section of the fanbase believe that ‘Arsenal in crisis’ when it’s them that are the one fueling the hysteria. If AW was manager of say PSG or any other clubs instead of Arsenal, I believe these WOBs would be the first to want the club to sign him. Anyway, it look like AW is staying so these so called fans should suck it up and start supporting the club as a whole again.

  • Mad Matt

    I used to like transfer rumours, before I realised that in football ‘rumour’ is a euphemism for ‘outright lie’

  • Benjamin

    As a second time poster, I must say I do struggle with the concept of ‘corruption’ being bandied about with regard to referees… Referees are simply human and make mistakes – the only way to stop it is to bring in video replays. Virtually eliminated human error in NFL and Rugby and doesn’t, honestly, impact the impact flow of the game very much. Although on the flip side the fact that FIFA, probably the most corrupt organisation in the world outside of organised crime (although there are great similarities!) will not bring in a proper video replay programme does give you pause for thought.

    And on the Wenger situation – it should be left to the end of the season (although indications are he will be there next season) to make a decision. Many of the players have been coming out (Walcott and Ox) saying the team is not trying as much as it could, which is the biggest worry. The results now in the business end of the season should govern what he does. He has games against Pep, Mourinho and Pochattino to prove that he can compete against the games best. The evidence at the moment, taking all the emotion out of the debate, is that he cannot any longer compete at the same level as the top, top managers in the most competitive league in the world.

    And as to the rift in the fan base – this always happens (remember Clough at Forrest) when a once great manager regresses to a mere mortal status… And unless results and performances pick up, it will only get worse. It’s simplistic to blame external forces (Media and trolls) wholly for this situation. The club has to take a fair bit of the blame with this ‘rabbit in the headlights’ approach that they’re taking. A decision needs to be made and communicated clearly and then everybody can move on.

    I don’t think what comes next needs to be worrying, one of my favourite quotes: “I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong. If we will only allow that, as we progress, we remain unsure, we will leave opportunities for alternatives. We will not become enthusiastic for the fact, the knowledge, the absolute truth of the day, but remain always uncertain … In order to make progress, one must leave the door to the unknown ajar.” ― Richard Feynman

  • OlegYch

    Alexanderhenry go away
    please don’t feed

  • alexanderhenry

    Nitram

    When have I ever said I want a ‘sugar daddy’ running arsenal?

    Never

    All I want is the club to use the resources it has.

    The lack of spending or austerity period arsenal put itself through between (approx) 2007 and 2013 was totally unnecessary. It saw us sell off our best players and replace them with lesser players. At the same time the cash reserves in the arsenal bank account grew and grew. We currently have more than £200 million saved- more than any club in the PL- allegedly for ‘debt servicing’.
    This is nonsense. The stadium debt is being paid off annually rather like a mortgage. The annual payment varies but it is roughly £20 million a year. This accounts for a fraction of overall expenditure. In other words, there is no reason for arsenal to have hoarded all that cash unless it’s there to boost the club share price. And who does that benefit?

    As I’ve said, the share price has doubled since Kroenke got involved. The guy has got a lot richer by doing absolutely nothing. Less than nothing in fact.

  • alexanderhenry

    OlegYch

    I’m pro wenger. … not a WOB

  • OlegYch

    Benjamin, video replays are a must, but they won’t remove systematic bias
    so FUFA will eventually introduce them, but much of corruption will stay hidden until referees are publicly assessed after every game and every season

  • OlegYch

    frankly i’m fed up with how people will use every opportunity to shush any referee talk

  • Polo

    Not sure why people expect Kroenke to put his own money in when he is just a majority shareholder and Arsenal is a self-sustaining club. If Arsenal needs more money, then the Board should issue more shares, you can’t expect one person to fork out millions while other shareholders are not expected too. I think there is confusion between the ownership of Arsenal vs other clubs who are wholly owned by a person or consortium.

  • Nitram

    alexanderhenry

    “When have I ever said I want a ‘sugar daddy’ running arsenal?”

    err?

    “………..Mr Kroenke has not had to invest any of his own billions in the club. it’s a disgrace.”

    The fact you think Mr Kroenke not investing his own money is a disgrace suggests to me a sugar daddy is precisely what you want.

  • Hunter13

    Alex? If you can not see how the refs here are robbing Arsenal then yes i will insult you when you pretend/act that said ref injustice is not happening or affecting results.

    Crisis? lol…. what do you mean? Because a few myopic hysteric idiots with no priorities in life cry a lot on the internet and the cameras? I would like you to investigate those ‘fans’ and show me which of those are qualified to talk over the management or mismanagement of multi million dollar businesses. Im not taking Kroenke’s side here but equally i can not accept that the pirate and the bluds know better about football than Arsene fucking Wenger. Some reality needs to be restored here.

    But thats what wenger is givign to Arsenal! A club that does not have to rely on Kroenke or any fucking kronke. Wenger is the kind of manager that makes club owner/president obsolete redundant and unnecessary. He is the dream scenario for a football world where clubs operate within their means and referreng bias or old school establishment are not allowed to interfere with results anymore. A system builder and a psychologist as well as financial genius. The combination of his attributes are not easy to find.

    After that its up to you to decide what kind of football club you want and what kind of football industry you want. Do you want mafia giant groups robbing eachother like real – bayern ? Or do we want solid self sustainable companies that compete equally wihtout referee and backscene shenaningans? I off course will humour at times and ask our own club to become mafia as well seeing how our purity gets shat upon.

  • Benjamin

    Oleg – if contentious decisions are reviewed for the viewing public how can there be bias? That doesn’t make any sense.

    Like in Rugby/NFL – they review every questionable call and come to the right decision based on the evidence. Who could have the bias in that process?

  • alexanderhenry

    Nitram

    Don’t you think the fact that Kroenke doubled the share price and has got the fans to be pay off HIS stadium debt for him, highly reprehensible.

    When he bought his controlling stake, the debt on the stadium was part of what he bought. Kroenke should pay it off, not the fans.

    Also, I don’t expect Kroenke to bank roll the club but there were seasons during ‘austerity’ when we were perhaps £20 million to £30 million short of having a squad good enough to win the PL or CL. If he’d stumped up the cahj it would have made all the difference. The resulting success would have made the club even more valuable than it is now, which means he would have easily got a return on that extra investment.

    In fact, if you think about it, how has the stadium move benefitted arsenal at all?

    Arsenal fans pay the highest tickets in football and the what we see on the pitch is worse than the teams playing at highbury.

  • Hunter13

    We currently have more than £200 million saved- more than any club in the PL- allegedly for ‘debt servicing’.
    This is nonsense.

    what are you talkign about you idiot? say tomoroow an earthquake hits islington and the emirates collapses. who pays?

    say arsenal misses from champions league or europe entirely. automatically you are minus 30m just for not participating… now add matchday revenues or prize money from victories and qualifications.

    cash reserves are there as your backup. it is not money to go throw around to agents to have a shot at rupert’s casino for glory. glory can wait. glory will come as a fruition of your work and ethos.

    soem small time businessman was being pillored in the states for keeping cash reserves of over 650m us dollars. attracting criticism of having no ambition and that the money shoudl be further invested. that businessman facing those criticisms is Bill Gates. His reasoning was even simpler. If a year goes bust i still have to pay salaries for over 700 employees plus their securities and then suppliers rents and various other running or maintenance costs.

  • Hunter13

    In fact, if you think about it, how has the stadium move benefited arsenal at all?

    is this serious?

    Arsenal sits next to Real Madrid and Manchester united in terms of revenue…..

    Are you askinG if the move benefited Arsenal or benefited YOU?

  • Benjamin

    Hunter – you seem quite angry. Not sure why.

    I have to take issue with: But thats what wenger is givign to Arsenal! A club that does not have to rely on Kroenke or any fucking kronke. Wenger is the kind of manager that makes club owner/president obsolete redundant and unnecessary. He is the dream scenario for a football world where clubs operate within their means and referreng bias or old school establishment are not allowed to interfere with results anymore. A system builder and a psychologist as well as financial genius. The combination of his attributes are not easy to find.

    What you’re describing is an old-fashioned football manager! And, frankly, the world has moved on in so many ways. Your look at all the top clubs and they operate now in a more professional structure with a Director of Football who is tasked with a lot of what the old manager would do. Leaving the Manager to focus completely on what’s happening on the field.

    In our club Wenger does it all. And at the moment he is simply being outclassed both on the field and off it. The old football manager died out for a reason – it’s simply less effective than the modern structure…

  • Hunter13

    ‘Arsenal fans pay the highest tickets in football and the what we see on the pitch is worse than the teams playing at highbury.’

    dont pay it then…

    at highbury arsenal only had manchetser united to worry about. now there is chelsea, there is man city and there are liverpool totenham etc who can also spend.

  • Polo

    @Alexanderhenry, I think most of the money in the bank are there to pay for future expenditures such as bills and staff wages. Think of it like your bank account. Also, you need to remember that players wages are getting ridiculously high so it’s best to have a lot of money in the bank, in case if there is an economic downturn or the broadcast money drop in the future, then at least the club has sufficient cash to pay its expenditures.

  • OlegYch

    Benjamin, i’m just guessing here, but not everything will be reviewed and there is still lots of ways to screw up a team
    eg take a look at our Watford game where arguably just one decision might have been reviewed (foul on Monreal in penalty area) but most of less major decisions still went Watford way

  • Hunter13

    On the ocntrary Benjamin. Having an owner payign for it all is the old school.

    making the club independent of a sugardaddy is in fact the modern way.

    The top clubs you speak of which are they? Bayern and Real Madrid? What has Arsenal got to do with them? We are not even bigger than a benfica historically speaking….

    If you think Arsenal can run their club like a Bayern or juvenus then i doubt your football history

  • alexanderhenry

    Hunter13

    Come on, are you seriously suggesting that the main reason arsenal haven’t won the PL or CL is because of refereeing decisions?

    We haven’t had good enough players; that’s the reason.

    On the ‘crisis’. I think it’s a bit more serious than you think:

    http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/10834302/time-for-arsene-wenger-to-leave-arsenal-supporters-trust-survey-reveals

    To quote you:

    ‘Wenger is the kind of manager that makes club owner/president obsolete redundant and unnecessary. He is the dream scenario for a football world where clubs operate within their means’.

    Well, that’s a little far fetched. All clubs need owners and BODs. Wenger has control over all football matters, not financial matters. All the big business decisions- on budgets, transfer kittys, wage structures etc are made by kroenke and co.

    Wenger works within those parameters.

    Also the ‘football world where clubs operate within their means’, doesn’t exist I’m afraid. It’s a pipe dream. Most clubs operate in the red and FFP failed.
    All the big clubs ignored it.

  • OlegYch

    so to battle that there is a very simple way – review the game in full (this is already done by FIFA and its minions), and publish the results (this isn’t going to happen any time soon)

  • Benjamin

    Hunter – we’re one of the biggest clubs in the world (the Emirates sales pitch/dream) and not run like one is all I am saying.

    Gazidis seems to agree which is why the talk of change and of a Director of Football… Bayern are owned by the fans (not a sugar daddy) and are run this way and it works well for them.

    If if you take a moment to think about it – that is why these clubs can be successful over many, many seasons as, in business parlance, you cannot have a single point of failure, or a bottleneck.

    And unfortunately, our model does have a single point of success or failure. And will lead to a succession planning issue… Which drives this crazy debate of who next.

  • alexanderhenry

    Polo

    Arsenal have more money in the bank than the combined cash reserves of every other club in the Premiership .

    That seems a little excessive to me.

  • para

    If the pitch keeps tilting in favour of different teams, it stands to reason that the team that offers the football organisations the most money wins the prize.
    Arsenal does not seem to offer any money, hence….

  • Nitram

    OlegYch

    Reviews will change nothing for us.

    Bournemouth away.

    Xhaka pushes a Bournemouth player in the back: Penalty.

    Every review I heard both during and post match agreed: Penalty.

    Bellerin gets a far worse push from behind prior to them scoring: No foul given.

    Every review I heard both during and post match agreed: No foul.

    For me those 2 decisions, in that one match, epitomise, not only the different way we are refereed, but more importantly, how decisions involving us are ‘reviewed’ by commentators, pundits, and ex referees alike.

    To look at, and analyse those 2 decisions, from all angles, in slow motion, and conclude one was a foul and one wasn’t, simply beggars belief.

    But that’s how it goes for us now, and that is how it will go for us should it be an official review panel.

    Like referees, they will make the call they know the media, including SKY and BT Sport etc. who write there pay checks, want them to make.

    All the reviews will do is have every stitch up vindicated there and then, rather than having to wait for the dummies to do it at Halftime or fulltime.

  • Hunter13

    Yes Alex i do. In 2007 /08 i think it was. All teams wer encouranged to play dirty against Arsenal youngsters because we were THAT good and about to embarass them all. Aggressive fouls , too aggressive to belong on a football pitch. Result = Eduardo Diaby, Ramsey. In that game in Birmingham the ref is fucking us all game. We manage to turn it around with teo golas from walcott i think and then in the 93rd minute the ref discovers ‘penalty’ on clichy. Gallas lost it and rightly so. Clichy never fouled the birmingham player.

    We are leading 4-0 at newcastle. Barton tackles Diaby from behind( illegal in football, straight red). Dowd smiles at Joey, gives him a yellow and gives red to Diaby because he dared to ocnfront Barton face to face. Down to 10 men and then two penalty discoveries one on koscielny and one on rosicky.

    We have a score that gives us qualification over Barcelona inside Camp nou. Ref gives second yellow to Robin Van Persie for the most laughable reason ever. We played our final and the refs sent off the keeper when Giuly scores on the advantage. Recently against Bayern, not that i would have qualified but whatever little chances i had in second leg were shattered when refs discovered penalty on koscielny plus red card.

    Shall we go further back? Do you remember the Nevilles and half the united squad kicking the shit out of reyes? why should i call reyes soft and not correctly shout at the ref who allowed his compatriots to kick the foreigner? Solkjaer getting Sol Cambell sent off? Rooney diving in game #50?

    How about Arshavin getting smashed insde the area with two footed lunge from behind again from Fletcher? Or the discovery of off-side on van persie’s equaliser only for the ref to award rooney with penalty for diving over almunia and landslidding 5 meters in the advertising boards?

    How about Xhaka seeing red for the kind of fouls that all referees allow against arsenal? How many times have you seen our contra attacks stopped by professional fouls and howmany times have you seen the yellow being issued ?

    could write so much…and the above is with no research…just memory.

    again 2010 i think … they cancel adebayor goal for offside when there was none and award tuncay’s ( middlesboro) clear off side.

  • OlegYch

    Nitram, i agree with what you’re saying
    but i’m not talking about blogs and such, i’m talking about official reviews which you can officially challenge

  • Hunter13

    taylor at home against aston vlla…routine home victory 1-0 turned into 1-3 defeat… ‘spend some fuckign money’

    the whole mike dean fiasco of absurdity in costa koscielny gabriel.

  • OlegYch

    Nitram, FIFA takes the stance that ref is always right (or he didn’t see it), if they start accepting that the ref can be wrong it would be a big step forward

  • Hunter13

    Benjamin
    19/04/2017 at 3:34 pm
    Hunter – we’re one of the biggest clubs in the world (the Emirates sales pitch/dream) and not run like one is all I am saying.

    sorry i disagree. since when is arsenal one of the biggest in the world? or do you mean wenger’s input?

    panathinaikos was bigger than you before wenger mate… played european final in wembley in 1971 against cuyff’s ajax. being twice to semis , last time in 96 against van gaal’;s ajax, and last 8 in uefa about 4-5 times.

    if you mean that arsenal has become big thanks to wenger and that they should be bossing the whole of the industry ala Real Madrid then again i will point out to your historical inadequacies.

    Gazidis? lol what the hell does he know about european football from the mls where it is sanitised and far far better regulated without the shady nature of old football insitutions. Gazidis talks bollocks 99% of times. Thats what he is there for. To talk shit to the fans basically.

    Realise it..Arsenal has nothing to say to a Real Madrid or a Bayern..we need to become bigger than say benfica or ajax to speak to the trully big ones.

  • Polo

    @Alexanderhenry, due to the timing of the season tickets renewal it inflates the bank account hence why it seems excessive but once you deduct recurrent expenditures then the bank balance will significantly drop.

    If Arsenals cash reserves is higher than all other EPL clubs combine then those other clubs must be badly financially managed.

  • Hunter13

    Also the ‘football world where clubs operate within their means’, doesn’t exist I’m afraid. It’s a pipe dream. Most clubs operate in the red and FFP failed.
    All the big clubs ignored it.

    heh off course they would ignore it. they have a lot to protect. why would they want an equal playing field? here what was required was strong leadership from uefa/platini but i cant expect mush from a coward disgrace of a human being who was celebrating his penalty when people were dying 100 meteres away from him ….

  • Hunter13

    Benjamin . do you hold arsenal bigger than dortmund too? because they won it 1997..i saw them…muller, souza sammer ..hitzfeld manager…

    without a european big one, you cant call yourself big.

    wenger has managed to put a pisspoor average medium club in world football historical success terms right next to giants we have no business sitting with purely due to financial pragmatism and STYLE.

    He has also given this club facilities and infrastructure to go on living for another 100 years….without a penny from anyone…with his transfers and financial/business acumen.

  • alexanderhenry

    Polo

    So, you’re happy with Arsenal having all that money in the bank and not spending it and at the same time charging the highest ticket prices in the PL.

    Strange attitude. It’s as if you like being ripped off.

  • alexanderhenry

    Hunter and Benjamin

    On the ‘bigness’ of Arsenal: in terms of success- especially recently- we are not in the elite, but in terms of financial firepower, fanbase, assets and resources we certainly are.
    We are currently ranked as the 7th richest club in the world.

    We’ve become a big club with delusions of mediocrity. Under Kroenke being average is inevitable . Look at all his other teams.

  • Gord

    Up on the Arsenal website, is news that Jack Wilshere is out for the season. It seems in his last game (involving the spuds, no less) he fractured his left fibula.

  • Hunter13

    Alexander ..what if Polo does not see it as being ‘ripped off’ . What if Polo understands perfectly well the limits of Arsenal or what if he is realistic and can see that Arsenal starts every season as 4th or even 5th favourite ?

    I also pay tickets..in fact i moved countries, left family friends and my business to come pay my respect to Wenger. I do it willingly, noone forces me. I can afford it as well. I ownt go hungry, nor cancel my summer holidays to buy an arsenal ticket…..get real.

    What if we view Arsenal for what it is…a football club that we can follow and support because in it we found ourselves (Dennis Bergkamp) . I support Arsenal and mainly Wenger;s Arsenal..not Grahams or the previous parodies exactly because his ideals on the game are in full agreement with mine.

    And please stop playing the season ticket prices and the poor fan who has to pay. None has to pay shit. Gazidis did not come at my doorstep with a gun on my head forcing me to buy. Did he force you?

    End of the day i can only hope all you cretins…the cancer eating our club from within..vote with your feet. Dotn pay and boycott. But you wont. Because deep down you are selfish and youre only interested in the glory that is associated with winning trophies. You want to be there when it all clicks and the 40k waiting list makes you think twice before abandoning your ticket. If your relationship with Arsenal is conditional upon trophies then you will suffer. The purchase of a ticket is agesture of love and supprot to your football club. It is not a passport to abuse and protest and demand change because they dont follow your ‘standards’ of what they should be……..

  • stefan melzak

    Right, it’s been lovely to chat chaps but I’ll leave you with these.
    Read them and really think about it. Is Kroenke really the right man to own arsenal?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2396845/Lady-Bracewell-Smith-reveals-deep-regret-selling-Arsenal-shares-Stan-Kroenke.htmlhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4284190/Arsenal-calamity-won-t-Stan-Kroenke-speak-up.html

    http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/arsenals-majority-shareholder-stan-kroenke-more-motivated-by-money-a7619426.html

    http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/alisher-usmanov-stan-kroenke-must-bear-huge-responsibility-for-arsenal-struggles-a3511546.html

    http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/bayern-munich-boss-carlo-ancelotti-arsenal-and-manchester-united-owners-more-interested-in-finances-a3421361.html

    http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/stan-kroenke-i-didnt-buy-arsenal-stake-to-win-trophies-a3202046.html

    http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/why-would-stan-kroenke-sack-arsene-wenger-when-hes-good-for-business-asks-arsenal-legend-ian-wright-a3487481.html

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/12150341/Arsenal-fans-left-outraged-as-Stan-Kroenke-spends-500m-on-a-new-ranch-the-size-of-Los-Angeles.html

    http://www.denverpost.com/2017/03/07/avalanche-mailbag-stan-kroenke-owner/

    http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/jeff-gordon/tipsheet-avalanche-nuggets-compound-kroenke-s-failure/article_8ff9175c-66b3-5671-9464-9b99fa286240.html

    http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football/professional/st-louis-suing-nfl-over-rams-relocation/article_501e2349-c9c9-5a70-9743-2583f89948d9.html

  • Hunter13

    but in terms of financial firepower, fanbase, assets and resources we certainly are.
    We are currently ranked as the 7th richest club in the world.

    yes you dickhead,, and who is responsible for that? graham? who brought all those fans and sponsors? the mighty history of arsenal of wenger’s style ?

    who managed to put you 7th in the world when in success terms you are not even bigger than benfica?

  • Benjamin

    Hunter – when you say: panathinaikos was bigger than you before wenger mate… played european final in wembley in 1971 against cuyff’s ajax. being twice to semis , last time in 96 against van gaal’;s ajax, and last 8 in uefa about 4-5 times.

    The you means that you’re not actually an Arsenal fan?

    And we’re (according to Forbes magazine) the 5th biggest club in the world. We’re worth 2.1bn, with annual revenues of 524m per year. with that comes a spending power that we don’t use compared to the other top 4; Real, Barca, ManU and Bayern. None of whom has a ‘sugar daddy’ all of whom have a sporting director and all of whom spend well in the transfer market. And have more success than us. Benfica and Ajax aren’t even top 20.

    So what I am saying is that the emirates dream was sold to us on the basis we would compete with the biggest clubs. Which we do financially. But we don’t do on the field, which at the moment is being overseen by Wenger.

  • OlegYch

    Hunter13, sums it all up pretty well

  • stefan melzak

    Hunter

    Don’t you want the club that you spend so much money supporting to use that money on players? Isn’t that what they’re supposed to do?

    What else are they going to spend it on? Giving themselves pay rises?

    Are you happy with the club hoarding all that cash?

    Aren;t arsenal football club dedicated to success ON THE PITCH as all football club should be

    If they’re not- and they aren’t, don’t you feel cheated?

    Why should you give them your hard earned cash only for them to just stick it in the bank?

    The owner is a multi billionaire as it is.

  • Bash

    Is abuse allowed on UA as long as you’re pro-wenger?

  • Hunter13

    The you means that you’re not actually an Arsenal fan?

    hehe if thats how you want to take it benjamin , then by all means. imnot going to change your mind nor do i have to prove to you anything.

    Real Barca Bayern haev been giants for eterity almost whereas arsenal only started in 2007…..

    If you think that because you built a stadium and you have healthy finances that you are now the equal to them then you are ignorant in football hierarchy.

    Even Manchester united had glamorous history..busby..charlton..best..you could say ferguson took over a sleeping giant in the mid 80s. Plus they were the bosses in england for 20 years plus th eonly english football vehicle to promote something positive to the rest in comparison to the humiliations of the national team. Just like Spain witll assist and push Real Madrid equally England would push and assist Manchester United or Liverpool when they carried the nations’ ‘football’ flag.

    I dont care how the emirates dream was sold to you…thast up to you and your intelligence to put 2 and 2 together. With russians and arabs here you should have known arsenal was going to suffer.

    And no you can not go every summer and try/test/fail with 200-300m. Soemone has to work for Arsenal’s budget ..its not manna ex roman/saudi…

  • stefan melzak

    Disappointed to see my last comments have been blocked. Really not sure why. There was nothing abusive in them.

    Surely this blog should encourage lively debate and diversity of opinion otherwise it’s just a bunch of fans agreeing with each other on everything which is boring

    Also, I am pro wenger anyway.

  • Hunter13

    Cheers Oleg…some guys heh…

    yesterday i read something even better

    arsenal fans to actively interfere and sabotage until they force the board to not renew with wenger….

    thats how sick they have become..a virus.. the cancer eating from within.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Whose money is it anyway ?
    How much did each of you personally contribute ?
    What is your share or due to you?
    How does one get one’s hand on it?
    Do YOU have a legitimate claim to it ?
    Do I have to go on ?

  • Benjamin

    Hunter – you’re manner is a little…. odd. You use the word ‘you’ repeatedly to talk about Arsenal… And spend a lot of time both putting the club down about being ‘giants’ and how we’re not even as big as Benfica and Ajax. Whilst simultaneously promoting Wenger as some kind of footballing god. I can only assume that you’re some kind of ‘troll’.

    The real truth isn’t past – that’s just the past. Ajax will never win the CL in the future, nor will Benfica. They do not have the resources.

    Arsenal currently have the financial power to do just that. With the right structure and manager in place. That isn’t some misty-eyed, looking to the past homage that you seem to like looking back to…

    And using your analogy – it took a great manager to bring ManUre to the top – backed by their revenue as one of the biggest clubs in world football. We need the same injection now.

    And the Emirates was built on the promise of competing with the best clubs in the world. And I repeat to you – none of the top 5 clubs in the world is owned by a Russian/Saudi…

    Having our money sat in the bank rather than spent like the other top teams is the crazy bit in all this…

  • Hunter13

    Nitram

    Don’t you think the fact that Kroenke doubled the share price and has got the fans to be pay off HIS stadium debt for him, highly reprehensible.

    lol..sorry..but who did you think was going to pay for the stadium? Hill-wood from his pocket? Stan? Are you insane or just completely ignorant of business? Off course the fans will pay for it.

    I mean this is basic stuff Alex……say you own a hotel and you refurbish it , make it modern…wont the cost of the refurbishment get past on to the clients?

    Do you think Audi makes cars for your convenience or so that they make money ?

    Do you think the supermarket is interested in feeding you or making money ?

    do you think pharmaceuticals make medicine to cure us because of their good nature or to make money ?

    Oh but football is different i hear you say…..

    Well heh…who is naive now then…

  • Hunter13

    Benjamin….

    Its not my fault you have fallen for the media and trolls baiting. Wenger is easily in the top5 in the world currently and i would say top10 of last 30 years. Manager of the decade as well for 2000-2010 as per world football history and statistics.

    Arsenal? who are they? What do they have to show the world prior to Wenger?

    **
    The real truth isn’t past – that’s just the past. Ajax will never win the CL in the future, nor will Benfica. They do not have the resources.

    Arsenal currently have the financial power to do just that. With the right structure and manager in place. That isn’t some misty-eyed, looking to the past homage that you seem to like looking back to…
    **

    ajax won it in 95…. if i mention some of the names in that team you will realise they changed european football…van de sar, davids seedorf de boers litmanen kluivert…

    you are slightly deluded when you say arsenal has the financial power to win the champions league what do you mean exactly? because i promise you we do not have the financial power of Chelsea , Manchester united Bayern Real Madrid or Barcelona….. they have 50-60 and 80 million players in their squads earning in excess of 200k euros/pounds a week.

    the best we can do currently is go and steal it ala atleticos’ two last failed bids….. but you need cojones the size of king kong for such feats…

    and frankly speaking….if henry couldnt win it for us i doubt theo or giroud will…

  • Hunter13

    ‘And the Emirates was built on the promise of competing with the best clubs in the world. And I repeat to you – none of the top 5 clubs in the world is owned by a Russian/Saudi…’

    promise? what promise? did we sign contracts as well with guarantees that by year X we will have surpassed Ac Milan in european cups?

    the 5 clubs you mention i told you previously are giants way before wenger came to arsenal. the 5 clubs you mention are institutions of world and european football. Arsenal was 2-3rd rate..always..

  • Hunter13

    Benjamin you need to accept historically Arsenal belongs closer to valencias and romas than Bayerns and Real Madrids….. historicallys peaking we cant even say a word to ajax or benfica. I shall hit you with reality till your arsenal delusions of grandeur evaporate. Only then will youunderstand the enormity of Wenger;s work at your football club.

  • OlegYch

    speaking of Valencia, it is interesting to read about their history after they won La Liga
    or about Inter, or Montpellier

  • Hunter13

    arsenals’ chance was in 2004 but the players fucked it up. they had beaten chelsea 3-4 times during the season and they lost the one that mattered. in 2006 we were fucked by refs and to our credit and to unsung hero freddie ljunberg (running and covering for 3 that night) we kept it alive somehow and full mockery for big mouth henry who crapped it twice one on one with valdez to finish it off. our highest ever scorer. then fucked off to barca so that messi and co win it for him.

  • Benjamin

    Hunter: Wenger is easily in the top5 in the world currently

    Well Hunter he’s not in the top-5 in the premier league currently… If you actually examine his complete record of finishes:-

    Monaco: 1st, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, 9th and 17th (Sacked)
    Grampus8: 3rd, 2nd
    Arsenal: 3rd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 4th

    So he’s consistent – but 4 titles in 30 years hardly constitutes top 5 currently.

    For example:-

    Pep – 2 x Bundesliga; 3 x La Liga in 10 years. (Plus 2 x Champions Leagues)
    Mourinho – 2 x POrtugues leagues, 3 x Premier League, 2 x Serie A and 1 x La Liga in 16 years (plus 2 x CL)

    See, stats always trip up a good argument….

  • Hunter13

    mourinho has won more with other peoples money i give you that. pep did well with a well structured club from cruyff plus laportas megalomania but both aint fit to lace wneger’s boots when it comes to team/club building.

    you seem to judge things oly as per trophies

    in that sense i expect you hold gary neville and wes brown with two european medals higher than patrick vieira or roberto baggio then…

    why stop there? jerzey dudek better than canizares also….

  • Benjamin

    Oh I see your argument that we are a small club and should be happy with not winning anything and that the genius of Wenger has kept up good but not great for the last 12 years? I see.

    That’s a bit barmy. As for that period we have been, financially, one of the biggest clubs in the world. That’s factual.

    So, for the last 10 years your argument holds no water at all… It’s a very…. interesting spin on reality.

    But I commend you for believing it.

  • OlegYch

    Benjamin, which period are you speaking of?

  • WalterBroeckx

    Stefan,
    If you post more than 1 link in a comment you end up in moderation

  • WalterBroeckx

    Benjamin, so the FA cup is no trophy for you?

  • Hunter13

    small no, but certainly not as big as you have in mind Benjamin. Look this is self explainable. Go check out the type of players that have worn the shirt of ac milan or real madrid..then do same for arsenal and tell me what similarities/differences you come across. Has Arsenal ever had a Paolo Maldini? A Raul?. The clubs you demand Arsenal to emulate have jerseys that weigh in tones, our jersey is still measured in kilogramms….

    not winning anything while focusing on stadium repayment and with arabs and rusians in the mix is not the end of the world. besides, we knew it it would nigh on impossible to compete against robben drogba and cech with fabregas denislon and almunia. you dont need to be a rocket science engineer to figure that out. and since they have managed to spend a little more they have a few cups already.

    did you expect as to be the bollocks between 2007-today? you are mad in that case…. a

    and yes it is the genuius of wenger to extract value from players of 2nd and 3rd tier to keep it all afloat. i remind you the invincibles were facing the prospect of being unpaid….imagine that…. its factual too 😉

    you need to differentiate the eras. first wenger decade it was between us and man united. in that set up you could compete and beat them. when you planned for the stadium you did not know that blair and brown would open doors to international criminals to come launder their dirty cash via epl…

    also ever since you built the ground you accepted that the winning aura would be sold… there was no way we could keep patrick vieira at 120k a week or whatever his value was at the time when the max salary was 35-40k to cesc or whoever.

    the only spin on reality is by ‘fans’ like you who thought emirates = real madrid.

    relax…your highlight all your life were games against totenham and now you moan to Wenger for not winning you 4 Champions leagues and 7 epl titles… lol…

  • Hunter13

    Bnejamin you talk as if you never accepted that Arsenal knowingly sacrificed trophies for a while in order to recover after stadium move. You talk as if you never accepted that Arsenal was going to be a bit shit for a good part of a decade. That the first crop and second even could get burnt under weight of expectations or would crumble under pressure of media and injustices of referees. And i dont mean one or two seasons… These things go in cycles..It could take a decade ..even more..maybe two decades.

    What are you going to do? Come shout like a cunt everytime we lose a football match to change the manager the owner the system the players gunnersaurus etc …

    If you can not accept that success in football comes in cycles and that the champions league final in 2007 was the end of a succesful cycle and that we willingly pressed reset to prepare for another 125 years of history then maybe youre not fit to support and not fit to deal with the ups and downs of supporting.

  • Gord

    How many titles a manager acquires is not a good indicator of how good a manger is. Go look at my article on millenia of the EPL. Teams can finish first that are not good teams, due in part to the large contribution of luck (random factors) to the game of football.

    Consistency in finish is a much better indicator of the value of a manager.

  • Polo

    @alexanderhenry, Arsenal don’t have £200 million to spend on transfers unless they are willing to go into huge debt, the money you see in the bank includes funds to pay for recurring expenditures, if you deduct those expenditure fund then the amount of money for transfers is significantly less. As stated by Hunter13, Arsenal was on the verge of not being able to pay the players wages at one stage, and I believe that situation changed the dynamic of the club to be more financially prudent. What I’m saying is Arsenal should spend on transfers if the club can afford to do so without putting themselves into debt.

    Here’s an article on football clubs with the most net debt.
    http://www.totalsportek.com/football/clubs-with-the-most-debt/

  • If you read the page on posting comments you would know

  • Menace

    Hunter13 – I’m with you mate. Your historical knowledge & the reasons for injuries & the Birmingham & Newcastle robbery are spot on. Any Arsenal supporter with eyes & a brain would have seen what you describe.

  • Menace

    TH14 was sold to Barca because Wenger was not happy with his extra curricular activities that were giving him groin strain.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    I’m just glad that our board spends ‘our money’ prudently and not just to please the deluded ones .
    Very nice swatting ,Hunter 13 .

  • Samuel Oluka

    Hello,
    If possible may you analyze referee decisions involving Arsenal against Bayern & Barcelona over the past few seasons.
    I thought Bayern enjoyed bad decisions against Arsenal but became bitter when the same was applied to them against Real Madrid.

  • nicky

    Well said Menace..

  • nicky

    Hunter you make some good points but there is no need to insult other posters because they dont share your beliefs,and that is what they are beliefs.
    A couple of points you mentioned ,one was about football being in cycles and that these cycles come around in every ??years.That is not true as Leiceter showed last year .If we carry on next year being run the same and with the same ependiture it is almost a certainty that we will have the same results .That is given.What we have to do is break that cycle,do things differently to try and get different results.Play differently,be coached differently,change our wage structure and change the way we are run.This might be helped slightly with the change in the way the game is officiated.There is one thing though if you think our woes are all down to referees you are very deluded and need to take a step back and see the whole picture.

  • MickHazel

    nicky

    ‘There is one thing though if you think our woes are all down to referees you are very deluded and need to take a step back and see the whole picture.’

    If you think that is the case then it is you who are deluded.
    No one on this site, either in articles or comments, does not think and has ever claimed that referees are solely to blame for the woes we have suffered, but there is no denying they play a very big part. We are all acutely aware that there are other problems to be taken into account as well.

  • Nitram

    Hunter13

    Not sure why your having a pop at me. I agree with 90% of what you say. You seem to of missed my point. Never mind.

    Perhaps the tone could be a bit better but I understand your frustration. You end up just going round in circles and it can end up feeling like your banging your head against a brick wall. I’ve been there.

    For my part.

    Yes we have more money, thanks to the way Wenger and the board have built the Club.

    But it is earned.

    We do not have a money tree we can harvest any time we want.

    We have to treasure our resources and use them with extreme care, as anyone with half a brain must be able to see the calamity of what could happen should we, for example, squander a fortune on the wrong player.

    People keep on about having £200 Million in the bank.

    Maybe so, maybe not. But in reality that is still not that much. Unbelievable I know, but true.

    Just look at the Net spend over the last 3 summers (2014, 2015 and 2016) at City and United, and what’s happened trophy wise since, on the back of it.

    Man City have spent a staggering £300 Million Nett. And for what? 1 League cup

    Man Utd have spent a massive £234 Million Nett. And have 1 FA Cup and 1 League cup to show for it.

    None of which count apparently.

    For the record we have a Nett spend of £155 Million and won 1 Fa cup over the same 3 seasons since the Summer of 2014.

    So despite both those Manchester giants blowing over, well over, our entire transfer kitty, what has it got them and where do they stand?

    Well it hasn’t won them much has it.

    A solitary League Cup for City. I mean, if an FA Cup doesn’t count?

    An FA Cup and League Cup for United.

    Not a title of Champions League success between them. The only 2 things that count apparently.

    So my point is, just spending 100’s of Millions over a relatively short period is absolutely no guarantee of success.

    And actually, in the great scheme of things £200 Million (as I say, if indeed we even have that kind of cash available for transfers) is not even that much.

    But here’s the rub.

    Despite those massive out lays for the 2 Manchester giants, outlays that would blow our kitty to shreds, what are they looking to do this Summer?

    You’ve got it, spend another £50 to a £100 Million. In Uniteds case money they’ve earned, in Cities case they just print of another pile of cash, a luxury we do not have. And that’s the key. Just keep spending these massive amounts year after year after year, until it comes good, which it will, eventually, because that’s what MEGA spending does. But we cant do that, year after year after year. We have a budget. They do not.

    In a word if we’d done what they’d done these last 3 summers, and ended up with what they achieved on the back of it, we’d be f****d.

    So Wenger and the board are in a completely different scenario to them when it comes to spending big.

    Arsenal just cannot afford to make the kind of mistakes that both those Clubs have obviously made with there spending, because if they did, this wonderful Club that we all love. That we all want to see successful, could end up doing a Leeds.

    And that’s not some fanciful piece of scaremongering, that is exactly what we could end up doing if our Club acts with the financial recklessness that many of the naysayers wish us to do.

  • nicky

    Mick
    I do agree they play a part the same as a hand full of fans from other clubs will say the same about their teams being hampered by dodgy decisions.
    Hunter do you think if the club decided to make a change of manager at the end of the season and went for Allergi from Juventus ,most fans would see that as a good move.He seems a manager that is very astute tactically and would certainly add some steel to our defence and keep them focused.Whether our owner and board would have the bottle and the determination to make a change that bold is yet to be seen but it would certainly be a positive move to BREAK THAT CYCLE!!

  • nicky

    Nitram
    You have use the 2 manchester clubs expenditure as an example of the vast ammounts clubs have spent but why dont you compare us to the champions last year leicester and this years potential champions Chelsea/Spurs?surely that would be more realistic.
    And to say that we could end up doing a Leeds if we decide to overspend for a season is just plain scaremongering.Comparing the worth of Peter Ridsdale to 2 of the richest men on the planet in Kronke and Usmanov is strange and if either of these lost a 100million it would be akin to me losing a pound down the back of the sofa!!

  • Hunter13

    oh sorry nitram never my intention to have a pop at you as i rate your posts highly… it was a confusion as i was replying to Alex at mine of 4:56 pm who had used your quote at 3:18 pm. hope its clear

  • Hunter13

    Nicky : Hunter do you think if the club decided to make a change of manager at the end of the season and went for Allergi from Juventus ,most fans would see that as a good move

    i find the notion that allegri will leave Juventus and the Agnelli family for Arsenal quite hillarious. This is Juventus. La Vecchia Signora. He is at an elite superpower club with massive history and massive presence in the european game. Arsenal would be to him like going to manage …Atletico or Roma or Eindhoven….

    of course impossible is nothing but i highly doubt it.

  • Hunter13

    Leicester? that was the definiton of firework , one season wonder. Yes ok every 100 years someone will come out of the blue and surprise everyone.. denmark and greece have won the euro … and? i didnt see spain germany italy etc following the example of the danish/greeks….

  • Hunter13

    apologies if allies got hit in crossfire everyone….. it can get hectic in the battlefront 🙂

  • Menace

    I am one & possibly alone in putting the blame of Arsenals position entirely on the corrupt officiating. How can a club survive when it is in shifting sands that keep trying to sink us? Any game can be destroyed by officials. Look at Barca & Bayern. They have had a taste of their own medicine. A wrongly given Red card destroys a team (particularly when managed well by the devil with a whistle).

    Let’s get to the success of the so called ‘poverty stricken’ Leicester & their championship. Their success was orchestrated by officials. There was an underlying footballing success that gorged on the freedom given them. There is sufficient evidence in Untold posts covering this. The media will shower their support with well orchestrated coverage & the selective methods used to display bias really needs to be observed to be understood.

    Nicky – the wealth of shareholders is not a measure of financial support. It only points to a smart investor. Owners (like the oilers) that wholly own a club can put in as much as they like because it will all come back. Directors do buy stock & generally own more than a fair share but then it only comes back if dividends are declared or the company is taken over. Loans to the club can be lucrative if there is an interest agreed. Incidentally every penny earned by a billionaire is worked for generally so don’t take wealth as being part of corruption.

    As for who wins the league this season, I don’t care. Spuds deserve nothing as do Chelsea. Spuds have got away with more than a fair share as have Chelsea & City & United (all of them!).

  • Hunter13

    heh menace..13 penalties was it? 39 points?

  • Nicky

    Nicky: I am not publishing your comment because you have neither done us the courtesy of reading our comment rules, nor bothered to read our research on referees (ok there is a lot of it, but you might just start with http://untold-arsenal.com/archives/60499 – at the foot of that article is a link to the reviews, each of which is accompanied by video evidence.

    When someone brings out a more comprehensive analysis with video evidence we will of course look at it, but for now this is all there is. The first 160 games completely reviewed.

    Oh and if you want to suggest that this was undertaken by Arsenal fans and was biased you might care to look at the Referee Decisions web site, which reached similar conclusions.

    And finally there was a level of personal attack in the comment, which I am trying to stamp out. I know I am not being very successful at it, but as I stopped your comment for other reasons I thought I would point that out.