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Supposing we’d sacked Mr Wenger a year ago and brought in Pep Guardiola

By Tony Attwood

When managers come in, their job is to do better than the last man. that is the sort of basic requirement most people lay down although some go for winning the title each season or at least challenging for it until the last few weeks.

Of all managers Pep Guardiola was the one who was expected to deliver this sort of return.
At present his team is out of all the cups and fourth in the Premier League

Last season after 32 games it looked like this

Last season Manchester City won the League Cup on penalties, went out of the Champions League in the semi-final and the FA Cup to Chelsea 1-5 in the fifth round.

This season they went out of the Champions League in the first knock out round, the League Cup in the 4th round and the FA Cup in the semi-final.

So their league position is similar (they have games in hand), the league cup is worse, the Champs League is worse, the FA Cup two rounds better.  And this after getting rid of a manager who the fans so detested that when he came to make his farewell speech at the end of the season he did so to a half empty stadium.

I don’t really know what too many Manchester City fans think about this, but the opinion gathered on the Metropolitan Line train from Wembley back to Kings Cross was that he might do better next year.

Which is fair enough, but I wonder, if Arsenal were to bring in a manager of the glorified stature of PG would they be happy to have a first season in which Arsenal by and large did worse than they had in the last season under Wenger?

Of course considered at a distance the answer seems as if it has to be yes, of course the fans would wait patiently, but then the notion of what the aaa and their chums in the media are all about returns, and I wonder.

The aaa has been such a good, cheap story for so long, it has filled so many column inches without the journo having to do a blind bit of work, I can’t imagine the journalists with their Arrogance, Amnesia and Assumptions letting the whole thing pass.  Nor can I imagine the aaa, some of whom have loved being at the centre of attention, marching around the stadium, waving their flags etc, letting it go.  And I wonder all of that before I start thinking that the referees will still be there, still doing their thing.

One year and a bit of a drop back instead of a great step forward, and no willingness to understand that there is something terribly wrong with PL referees, and I think the aaa might be unhappy.

Of course it might not turn out like this.  The first season under Manager X could well be brilliant, a bit like Mr Wenger winning the Double in his first complete season, but there will be a lot to live up to.   Because quite simply, changing a manager doesn’t bring results automatically.

But there is also a further problem for Manchester City.  Manuel Pellegrini won the title in his first complete season, just as Mr Wenger did.   The owners at Man City apparently said that last season’s fourth, Champs semi, League Cup win and FAC 5th round was the “bare minimum”.  The absolute basic below which anything was unthinkable.

I’ve no idea how the people who own Manchester City think, largely because I can’t understand how people can see women as second class citizens in the way that they do, and maybe they can find some way to express this season as progress, and to get rid of the bare minimum approach.  Although spending over £172 million on nine new players seems a bit excessive for the status quo maintenance job.  But I guess they can afford to do it again.

But of course the matter is far worse for Arsenal, because Mr Wenger is both stubborn and just plain stupid.  He won’t bring in the right players, he won’t spend money, he doesn’t do defence, and he won’t change tactics.  I know that because I read the papers.

Which is interesting when we remember that only one new defender was brought in by the new man at Manchester City, even though journalists across the world said he needed two new full backs.

Arsenal of course are no better when it comes to defence.   We bought Mustafi and we have Holding who came for £3m from a club now in League One.  £3m?  You’re having a laugh.  Except I thought he was jolly good in the semi-final.  And come to that so was Gabriel.   Even Ian Wright said, “I’ve given Gabriel stick in the past because he has looked out of sorts at times, like a scared rabbit. But today he was brilliant, he was fantastic.”

Blimey!  Maybe Mr Wenger was right after all.   Maybe, after all, Mr Wenger knows a bit about defending.   And there’s Bellerin, who has had a rocky patch, but which teenager does not?  Not that many.

But still it can’t all be Pep’s fault can it?  I mean he knows what he wants and sticks by it.  Like getting rid of Joe Hart.  Firm, decisive.  And a bit of a mistake probably.

Last year when the unwanted League Cup winner was pushed out the door the Chief Exec of Man City did the old thing of saying that the new manager would take City up to the next level.  I am not sure where the levels change, but then also I am not sure I am actually seeing a new level.  But it did remind me of Charlton fans wanting their club to go up to the next level, once upon a time.  Be careful what you wish for, as the saying says.

Of course I am not saying that PG is a clueless idiot, which is the sort of abuse Mr Wenger gets, but I am saying that even with all the money you can imagine and supposedly the best manager in the world, there are no guarantees.

Yes of course in Germany it is pretty much a given that Bayern wins the league, because that is what happens most years.  In Spain it will mostly be one of Barcelona or Real Mad.   But England is not like that.  You can have rogue clubs coming through and winning, such as Leicester, and you now have half a dozen clubs who might fancy their chances on a regular basis.

Manchester City do not even have the excuse of changing grounds.  They were given the City of Manchester stadium in 2003, so clearly have got used to it by now.   So how can we explain Pep’s failure to win everything?  They have the ground, the money, a good team, the best manager in the world and…
.
And in effect that is still not enough.   There has been no breakthrough youth player emerging to baffle the competition who have not watched him play.  No Holding, Bellerin, Coquelin, Iwobi… no one.   OK they have had injuries to Gundogan and Jesus, but everyone gets injuries.  What he had before was Messi and a forward line which no one else could match.
.
But that is once in a lifetime stuff.  To make it really work you have to do it again and again and again.

And that brings me back to my age old theme.   Changing managers is not a guarantee of improvement.

 

61 comments to Supposing we’d sacked Mr Wenger a year ago and brought in Pep Guardiola

  • Xi_gunner

    Good article, though I don’t understand what you meant by the second class citizen women.

  • Nitram

    Some good points well made.

    But I know a name that will be thrown at you to dispute what you say, and that will be Conte at Chelsea.

    But I contest that his achievements have been a little over egged.

    Yes Chelsea been good at times this year and if they win the title, or even the double heaven forbid, they will of deserved it.

    But is Chelseas success under Conte a miracle akin to the raising of Lazarus, or is it more realistically simply Conte getting Chelsea back to where they should be, given the players he inherited from the Mourhino era?

    The following is the core of players that won Chelsea there semi final on Saturday and who are also the Backbone of there title push.

    Courtois
    Azpilicueta
    Luiz
    Moses
    Kante
    Matic
    Alonso
    Hazard
    Costa
    Fabregas
    Hazard
    Willian

    Out of that core the following are players from the Jose title winning era.

    Courtois
    Azpilicueta
    Luiz
    Moses
    Matic
    Hazard
    Costa
    Fabregas
    Hazard
    Willian

    There are only 2 players of any significance different.

    Kante and Alonso.

    It is also arguable that it was the Mourhino players Conte had to bring on to finally win the match.

    My point is, for all the praise being heaped upon Conte he basically inherited a title winning squad.

    All he had to do was freshen it up with a couple of buys, and obvious, refraining from slagging people off if they didn’t kiss his arse helped.

    More to the point is not how well Conte has done with these players, but just how badly Mourhino’s ego f***ed it all up in the first place.

  • nicky

    Tony
    I admire your positiveness after a really dour season for Arsenal.If you did a poll of all arsenal fans and asked them would they like to keep Arsene Wenger for next season or have Pep take charge,what would be the outcome.Hmm.Tough one.One has had 13 years to get it right ,the other has had one season in the premier league.

  • Nitram

    nicky

    One spent £165 Million pounds Nett in there first Season, which is more that Wengers Net spend over the last 15 years.

    Not only did he spend £165 Million Nett but it was making additions to a squad that had already had:

    £74 Million Nett spent on it the season before.

    £60 Million Nett the season before that.

    £89 Million Nett the season before that.

    That’s a squad that’s been assembled over the last 4 years at a staggering Nett cost of £388 MILLION.

    Wenger’s Nett spend During the trophy less period was actually a PROFIT of around £30 Million.

    Glib remarks like ‘one has had 13 years to get it right’ are totally uncalled for, and completely ignoring the reality of what Wenger had to work with.

  • nicky

    Nitram
    This season we spent the same amount as chelsea and more than spurs.Your point being??
    City like chelsea have an owner who wants their club to be sucesfull and will spend a fraction of his wealth to do so.We have an owner with similar wealth with no ambition to be sucesfull and is only interested in making a profit and taking money from the club.

  • Nitram

    nicky

    Yawn.

  • nicky

    True though nitram.

  • Mike T

    Nitram

    I think you totally underestimate the impact of Conte

    The Chelsea team that started on Saturday contained no less than 6 players that wernt in Chelseas squad last season.

    Ake, Alonso, Moses, Kante, Batshuiayi and Luiz

    Ok there was Fabregas, Hazard and Costa available and indeed came on as subs so out of 14 who featured slightly under half are new to the squad.

    In AW second season as you will know he won the league at Arsenal but out of the squad who played more than 10 league games that season just 5 had been his signings. Does that dimish his achievements. Of course not for quite often the greater plaudits are about how you use your players , how you set them up quite simply how you improve players , how to motivate them .

  • hunter 13,
    nicky needs lecture 101 ant the arsenal

  • SamuelAkinsolaAdebosin

    With all said and understood on if Pep Guardiola a supposedly super manager was hired by Arsenal at the end of last season’s campaign, will Arsenal be in the position that Man City’s Guardiola are currently are with the chance of winning any title this season already disappeared into the thin air? But save a likely 4th place trophy City may win.

    Well, in as much as changing a manager does not guarantee an instant or even a late success in winning the title save on a rare occasion when it’s seldom happens like in the cases when Arsene Wenger, Jose Mourinho, Manuel Pellegrini and Glaudio Ranieri first took over Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City and Leicester City reigns and won the title in their first year reigns.

    So, it the last 20 years, it has happened 4 times as a new manager had won the PL title in his first year as manager. Maybe it will extend to 5 times in 20 years if Conte won it for Chelsea this season which will make an average of 4 years for a new manager to win the title. Hmmm.

  • SamuelAkinsolaAdebosin

    With all said and understood on if Pep Guardiola a supposedly super manager was hired by Arsenal at the end of last season’s campaign, will Arsenal be in the position that Man City’s Guardiola are currently are with the chance of winning any title this season already disappeared into the thin air? But save a likely 4th place trophy City may win.

    Well, in as much as changing a manager does not guarantee an instant or even a late success in winning the title save on a rare occasion when it’s seldom happens like in the cases when Arsene Wenger, Jose Mourinho, Manuel Pellegrini and Glaudio Ranieri first took over Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City and Leicester City reigns and won the title in their first year reigns.

    So, it the last 20 years, it has happened 4 times as a new manager had won the PL title in his first year as manager. Maybe it will extend to 5 times in 20 years if Conte won it for Chelsea this season which will make it an average of 4 years for a new manager to win the title. Hmmm.

  • SamuelAkinsolaAdebosin

    Sorry for the error of posting twice.

  • xi Gunner – in the United Arab Emirates women do not have equal rights with men

  • omgarsenal

    Xi_gunner……..tony is referring to the way women are treated in many Muslim countries under sharia law….as second class citizens.

  • omgarsenal

    Same old same old on UA. Opinions based on conjecture and pseudo statistics. The reality is that:

    1)Conte,Guardiola and Wenger have different constraints and different approaches to the game. would either managers’ vision fit the Arsenal better than their team…who knows?

    2)Would Conte or Pep get the officiating we have had over the last few years?

    3)Would AFC or them be better treated in the media?

    4)Would the aaa lay off sniping if they lost a game or two?

    5)Would all our players want to play for Pep or Conte?

    6)would the team chemistry remain under another manager, would the players put an effort into playing for their new manager?

    Nothing is as simple as the aaa, the media and other fanboys try to make it seem and Tony’s eternally reminding UA readers that a managerial change is at best unpredictable and at worse difficult for successful transition is well worth remembering. If you unquestioningly believe what you read,see or hear around you then you desperately need a reality check!

  • nicky

    Omg
    Tony’s eternally reminding UA readers that a managerial change is at best unpredictable and at worse difficult for successful transition is well worth remembering.
    “Oh well lets all believe Tony and his bullyboy Menace over the other 91 clubs that are brave enough when it matters to make that change!!

  • Menace

    nicky – we do not have an owner!!!! We have shareholders. So get yourself a different moniker or perhaps we shall have to call you fakenicky!

  • para

    One thing we forget is, that Arsenal already play like Pep wants.

    This could well have been a deciding factor in him doing better?

    ATM he has to get Manc playing the way he wants.

  • para

    Tony:

    Women do not have the same rights as men in reality here either although this is projected as being so.
    Its the same with black people supposedly having the same rights as white people, a projection that is so far from the truth.

    But those involved feel and know the truth every day.

    One example that really stands out:
    Black football managers/coaches.

    Think about that.

  • Para, what you say is undoubtedly true, but for me (just a personal thing) the fact that the country of my birth is not perfect does not stop me seeing that some countries are far far far far far worse than my country when it comes to human rights. I would never say that the UK is the best in this regard, and I have visited some countries where it seems to me they do things better, but it also seems to me the Emirates do some things far worse than the UK

  • Ibro

    Wow, so Guardiola is a failure less than 1 season after taking charge of a new team in a new league. Wow! How insightful

  • nicky

    Menace
    We may have different shareholders but one man makes all the decisions and decides to take money out of the club rather than putting it in.Our second biggest shareholder Alistair Usmanov owns 30% but isn’t allowed a seat on the board and isnt privy to decisions made.So that tells me that Silent Stan is the Boss and if any of his American clubs are anything to go by ,not a very good one at that.

  • Menace

    fakenicky – you still haven’t changed your name. Your comments are as fake as you.

  • finsbury

    TBF I think Mike T totally underestimates the impact of Roman upon the bank accounts of many third party agents.

  • Ibro, you do make me laugh, making comments on this site without actually being able to understand quite what is going on. But let me explain. For nine years I have been writing about the fact that there is a tendency within football writing to judge managers and players only by their latest achievements, when in fact they should be judged over a longer period of time. Indeed I think that point is made moderately clearly in this article.

    I mean, when I write “I don’t really know what too many Manchester City fans think about this, but the opinion gathered on the Metropolitan Line train from Wembley back to Kings Cross was that he might do better next year.

    Which is fair enough,”

    which bit of “which is fair enough” makes you think that I am saying “Guardiola is a failure”? Context can help.

  • nicky

    Menace at least i dont post sh1te all the time like your good self.Your the biggest clown on the net.

  • Hunter13

    nicky
    24/04/2017 at 8:15 pm
    Nitram
    This season we spent the same amount as chelsea and more than spurs.Your point being??
    City like chelsea have an owner who wants their club to be sucesfull and will spend a fraction of his wealth to do so.We have an owner with similar wealth with no ambition to be sucesfull and is only interested in making a profit and taking money from the club.

    so how does a change of manager change the fact that arsenal owners want to run it like a business? do you think they will give pep 200m for transfers every year? lol..

    you are clueless nicky….

    and i bet you your house that majority all over the world want wenger to stay.

  • Jammy J

    Nicky – “This season we spent the same amount as chelsea and more than spurs.Your point being??” Squads are not built in one transfer window, mate. The fact that we spent more than them in one season, doesn’t really prove your point, at all. When you look at their expenditure of the last 5-10 years or so, compared to ours, it is significantly higher.

  • nicky

    Hunter.
    I dont give a rats arse what fans from Kenya to China to India want.I dont really care what People think who watch the games on dodgy streams and have never set foot in the uk never mind seen the emirates. The only people who want Wenger to stay in this country are Fans of Chelsea,City,Liverpool Utd and spurs and a handful of cult followers on sites like this.The real people who matter are the real fans the ones who travel home and away spend vast fortunes to follow the team.
    Wenger has had a lot of money to spend and as has been shown over the last 3 or 4 years when the shackles are off, hasnt really spent it at all or hasnt spent it wisely.That along with his outdated tactics, lack of being able to motivate players and a sense of repetition season after season is the reason most fans now want a change.We have a small chance of still winning the FA cup but that will only paper over the cracks.
    You mentioned in an earlier post about Allergi and why he wouldnt come to Arsenal and stay at Juve.He is on 3.5million a year at Juve .I could think of 9 million reasons why Arsenal would be attractive to him.

  • Hunter13

    but you said that arsenal has owners that only interested in money. so i will ask again. how does a change of manager alter the fact that owners will still keep wage structure and will still not pay over the odds for players/success??

    ‘The real people who matter are the real fans the ones who travel home and away spend vast fortunes to follow the team.

    what kind of bullshit is that? Arsenal plays for millions around the world…not just the 2-3k who go to away games or the 50-60k in home games. If they find that following arsenal is expensive then they have their priorities wrong, and i wont take advise or even listen to the opinion of some lunatic who pays for tickets instead for his house or his family first. those are his/hers choices. they have nothing to do with arsenal or wenger.

  • Hunter13

    i care more about the fan in china and india because their choise to support arsenal is a conscious one… its not from mom or dad who basically forced their kids to follow arsenal or the community ‘card’ and bollocks like that. arsenal is global not local.

    you think allegri will leave the agnellis and juventus..a proper elite historical football force where he can make history to come play for you when youll be calling him a cunt if he doesnt do the treble in 2 years?

    you do not know football or even how the world works……

  • nicky

    Hunter
    We are paying over the odds for the contract of our manager whose sucesses over the last decade has been minimal.And dont tell me i don’t know football or how the world works.You’d be surprised what effect money has on loyalty.I bet if he was offered treble his wage Allergi would jump at the chance.But i doubt our club or board have what it takes to try and lure him as has shown with the way they have behaved over the last 3 months with the debacle over Wenger.You have to admit the way we have been run lately is shambolic.

  • Hunter13

    dont pay it then. its that simple. you cant use the ticket prices as excuse…sorry.

    here you cant even understand basic concepts of free will and you want to talk football? juventus? tactics and finances?

    one step at a time nicky…

    shambolic? sitting next to Manchester United and real Madrid in terms of revenue?

    lol… say more

  • Leon

    nicky….could I suggest that you edit you name/avatar slightly so that we can distinguish between you & the other “nicky” who regularly comments here. I’m sure you’re genuine and not “nicking” his ID, but it gets a bit confusing, least of all for the real nicky himself (as he himself said the other day).
    Also it might even shut your biggest troll up.

  • Scuba

    I hate the “there’s no guarantee it’s going to be better with change” argument, because it’s just fundamentally flawed. Of course, changing the manager doesn’t guarantee things will get better, or even stay as good. That’s obvious enough that I’d think it should be considered common sense.

    Sadly, over the past few seasons I’ve seen no real progress from this Arsenal group, and while results have been at or above the minimum acceptable level in every campaign (and I’d argue that this season will probably meet that criteria even if we miss the top four), it hasn’t exceeded my minimum expectations for a very long time. I’m personally willing to accept a seemingly minimal risk of going in the wrong direction in the short term in exchange for the potential reward of a more memorable season. Being a supporter is more interesting with occasional highs and lows, at least for me, largely because the highs are what we’re all hoping for.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Nicky, so we should get rid of all the expensive players in the squad? Fine for me as I always enjoyed it when we saw a young kid make it in to the first team. So no transfers in of big players anymore if you got it your way?

  • nicky

    Walter
    I haven’t said anywhere that we should get rid of those players and im definitely not against signing big players.What i am against is allowing a manager whose track record lately hasnt been too sucessfull in bringing in the right players or hasnt been able to coach and get the best out of those players.There is a big chance he wont be at Arsenal next season.In reality Arsenal has become stagnant and a fresh approach all round is needed and thats at the top as well as the bottom.More of the same next season will only make the club look more incompetent and see the fans become more fractious.No wonder fans are at witts end.

  • Hunter13

    I dont know Scuba…supporter means you support the idea the ethos the values. supporting is unconditional. it does not depend on hows or lows. on the contrary there is the other school of thought. the more you hurt me the more i love you. i think thats the relationship between supporters and clubs. if we accept that success comes and goes in cycles then we also accept we can not be always no.1 ..sometimes we will be no.2 or no.3. Is it the end of the world? Is it enough to stop us from supporting?

    Ok i might not give them my money for two-three years till they show a degree of seriousness but stop supporting? sabotaging them? calling them cunts left right and centre? hiring planes and busses to get the manager sacked?

    And on a more philosophical note. Arsenal winning the league makes no difference in my life or yours. I will be happy for a day, even a week. But theni still have to work and pay rent and taxes. I have opther priorities than whether Arsenal wins the league or not and i have learned to value efficiency and stability. I sleep easy at nights knowing that Mr Wenger is there taking care of the football team i support

  • Menace

    Well said Leon! you at least see some genuine change (fakenicky) that makes a difference. Your reference to troll is an honour considering your so damned stupid when it comes to knowledge of football.

    Arsenal under Wenger lead the world in how football should be played & the business around it organised so that ownership is transparent. The areas you comment on are where education doesn’t matter. When you have learnt how to respect people like Wenger, who wakes up better than you & fakeer; sleeps better than you & fakeer & works better than you & fakeer & does everything better with a level of education than you & fakeer, you will be entitled to comment on this blog.

  • Leon

    ‘When you have learnt how to respect people like Wenger, who wakes up better than you & fakeer; sleeps better than you & fakeer & works better than you & fakeer & does everything better with a level of education than you & fakeer, you will be entitled to comment on this blog.’
    I know nothing of Wenger’s sleeping/waking arrangements (although you seem to have a creepy knowledge of them), and I’d never compare myself to him on any level, but I would say from my experiences on Untold Arsenal that I am a far better person than you could ever hope to be.
    And as for my entitlements; take them up with the blogger.

  • nicky

    Menace
    I can assure you when it comes to knowledge of football i doubt there is anyone out there on your level as the majority of your posts prove.And not only do you seem to worship and idolise our manager and hold him in god like status ,i think you’d secretly masturbate over him if he was crazy enough to spend time in your company.

  • nicky

    menace
    “Arsenal under Wenger lead the world in how football should be played & the business around it organised so that ownership is transparent.”That is pure comedy genius”Nothing could be further from the truth especially this season.

  • Ibro

    The only thing that seems clear from what you write is your judgement of guardiola to have had a poor season. I actually laughed too, at the article.

  • Hunter13

    That is pure comedy genius”Nothing could be further from the truth especially this season.

    no its not.

    when barcelona would play arsenal …ajax and eindhoven players managers and stuff would all go to camp nou to watch those two. their explanation: these are two clubs that play proper football.

    perhaps you can ask what the national german coach thinks of arsenal or wenger or rummenige and the rest at bayern and see if their ideas on arsenal agree with menace or you and piers morgan. 🙂

  • Menace

    So there we have it Leon & the fakeer bring football down to sex when the ball (inflated or deflated) appears to have more intelligence than ‘them’.

  • OK Ibro, since we have given you a load of stress (re your comments on the Match Officials) and we have also made you laugh I think your psychiatric treatment is coming along nicely.

  • Leon

    Wow! Sex now is it? I can’t speak for nicky jr. but all I said was that you seemed to have a creepy knowledge of Wenger’s sleeping/waking arrangements (you’ve yet to explain that), and your obsession with him is a bit peculiar you know.
    Best of luck with that.😇

  • Ibro

    Sadly, yours isn’t

  • para

    Tony
    I suppose it is our nature to point at those who are worse that us. 🙂

  • para

    “than”

  • Fishpie

    I agree changing Managers is no guarantee of success. You’ve said this man times Tony and you have stats to back it up. Good. However, writing a piece about Pep just one season into his job and then creating an argument that suggests its just as well we didn’t replace Arsene with him… well it’s a little desperate isn’t it? No reasonable fan would expect a new Manager to get everything right in his first season. When it happens, as it did with Arsene and is doing with Conte, it is of course very impressive. But, in Arsenal’s case at least, most of our successful managers, including Chapman, Mee, Neill, George took a while to build the team they wanted. Pep’s reputation and track record of constant success were built on the Spanish and German leagues. The Premiership may prove to be a tougher challenge with at least 6 big clubs all capable of competing for the title. If after 3 years Pep has made no progress and City do not live up to their owner’s expectations, they are then, in my view, entitled to look around again for a new Manager. Then might be a good time to have written your article too. A fairer period to judge a manager. City probably won’t give Pep 3 years if next season ends up like this season. They may even be mad enough to fire him at the end of this season if they don’t qualify for the Champions League. Arsenal these days are at the other end of the scale, which like City’s is not, in my opinion, optimal. In our case we have a Manager who has been with us 20 years, the last 10/11 of which, we have seen no progress in League position or Champion League outcomes. To be fair, it is only in the last 4 years that Arsene has had money to compete, and so far, the only progress we’ve seen has been in the FA Cup. While 3 FA Cup finals in 4 years is a very very fine achievement, it isn’t what Arsene himself set out to achieve. He wanted more. He planned for more. He has spent money and built a team to achieve more. And in this regard it hasn’t worked out. And the thrust of the frustration from people like me is his teams always come short in exactly the same way for exactly the same reason’s each year, and he appears to be incapable of fixing this reasons. Maybe Pep would fail likewise if he were to become our Manager. But if he did I would not judge him in his first or even his second season. Arsene has had enough chances to improve things (in terms of taking us up a level). Last years calls were for “We Want Change”. Perhaps with introducing a back 3 he has accepted that call was valid. Better late than never. But how real is it?

  • Fishpie

    “many times”, not “man times”

  • Scuba

    Hunter,

    There is nothing about supporting a club which says you have to be accepting of every decision that they make. If next season kicks off with Arsene still at the helm, I’ll cheer for the squad to win as much as possible, just as I do now.

    That said, Wenger’s contract is up this summer, and I honestly believe a change would be in the best interest of the club. Hoping to see a new man in charge at the end of the year doesn’t mean I’m not supporting the club, that’s a strawman argument that too many regulars here build up every time someone wants to see change.

  • Hunter13

    Depends the decision scuba..and the reason behind that decision.

    I understand perfectly well arsenal’s decisions. they are running a business, not a charity nor a vanity project for society’s losers to attach to a winning group to make them feel better when they go to work on monday or down the pub…

    Do i like their decisions? Some yes , some no. For example i would have kept Sagna and i would have brought back Cesc no doubt and sold Theo long time ago but i can also understand the reasoning behind the decisions to say no to all three. Sagna perhaps wanted too much and wenger felt that with bellerin coming up no need to pay sagna 120k a week for 3 years. Cesc maybe ethically as to show that once you abandon us there is no coming back or even that chelsea is paying him 250k a week while we pay ozil our highest 140k. Theo is very limited but at the same time he is an ok finisher plus he is an english boy and whatever that ensues for media/sponsors/marketing etc…

    Change in what ways? I dont believe any other manager in the world can do better with this Arsenal self – sustainable set up. If yorue talking about changing the whole of the club, then…heh…we are not the ones to make that decision and rightly so.

  • Hunter13

    Scuba perhaps i should lay down the parameters of my perspective:

    – football is business
    – clubs exist to make money out of our irrational support/ allegiance to some notion/entity/romantic/idea of the club
    – i accept that for a succesful club there first needs a succesful model of operation/money making machine behind it.
    – success comes and goes in cycles.
    – arsenal was tier3 or tier4 before wenger, now were tier1 financially but maybe tier2 on the pitch.
    – english pundits/media and refs have a thing for wenger because he was the first foreigner to come and expose them and show them how its done properly and professionally in the 21st century. Plus he did it without the russian mafia or bank of saudi arabia i.e without lubricating the engine/establishment…..
    – arsenal is one of the few teams that comes out to actually play football whereas most are fearful of the pressure for the result and play catenacio with 300m and 400m squads…

  • nicky

    Hunter here is my perspective..
    1.Football is a business to Arsenal.To some its about winning trophy’s and not just about making profit.
    2.Clubs don’t always try and fleece the fans like Arsenal do.Some clubs reward fans loyalty.For Arsenal fans its like going to Waitrose and it being stocked with poundland products.
    3.Success doesn’t come in cycles.Utter nonsense.
    4.Football pundits /media don’t just have a thing for Wenger.If any other club had acted as shambolic as we have in the past few months they would get the same stick.And as for refs ,fans of every club feel hard done to with decisions ,even the top clubs so give it a rest.
    5.Every team in the premiership comes out to play football not just us.There are other ways to play the game as well as tippy tappy sideways passing.Defending is also a part of the game as is being physical.Shame some of our players are very rarely up for a fight.Good to see we were up for a battle sunday shame we cant do it on a regular basis.

  • Leon

    I can’t remember the last time Arsenal played really good attractive football. Most PL teams play decent stuff these days and we tend to look a bit more laboured than most. I’m sure we’ll get our mojo back, hopefully in the cup final.

  • Hunter13

    nicky….your list reads like a 10 yearolds xmas wishcard. your persepctive is laughable and belongs to immature individuals wheras mine is far more intelligent cerebral and all-encompassing. dont cry. its just the way it is.

    1.football is business everywhere. from china to los angeles and from sweden to cap town and in all categories … even at u-17s….

    2.clubs will off course fleece fans. every club everywhere in the world for as long as they can/get caught -exposed, its their duty as a business. perfectly acceptable and knowledge to all.

    which clubs reward fans loyalty and how? please show examples? in arsenal’s case, they built a stadium and someone has to pay for that . guess who? it wont be kroenke or hillwood thats for sure. it will be you and me. If teh schedule requires 10 years of poundland products then thats what will happen. Now you as a fan either accept it and support or you dont and back away.

    3. that is a clueless comment and im shocked you are so limited in knowledge and life experience to hold any ground/gravity even in this discussion about football and im being polite.

    4. you want shambolic? chelsea yoyo 1st one year 10th the next. man city- 2 billion spent 0 champions leagues and only 2 league titles. manchester united being fleeced by mendez and raiola and struggling to get to champions league 3-4 years now. Liverpool …lol… 25 years no league and just sporadic cup success (admitedly istanbul counts of course as their 5th triumph with big ears cup) but otherwise laughable and have spent more than Arsenal in the last decade or so. Arsenal has had only one bad(ish) season with regards to previous standards set by Wenger so pipe down little one.

    5. No they do not. they sit back and wait to steal the game on a counter, a deflection a dodgy penalt aricochet from nowhere etc. The money and the pressure her does nto allow for football advenutre. Managers will go with rigid systems and play catenacio as well and players ultra violently at times to show who is boss …like dogs basically…not athletes.

    p.s defending is off course part of the game and as someone said it a lot better than you or me…..the best defence is a good offence.

  • Hunter13

    Yes Leon we play horrible lately because dumbfucks like youhave added unnecessary pressure to the club and the players and making them feel its now or never. win or die. and off course they will be wobbly and frightened and hesitant. Perhaps psychology counts for soemthing ? or maybe we can give them some dope and they will win all before them like supermen 😉

  • Hunter13

    Here is Mr Wenger..in his wonderful club he has set up…a club that would be worse than totenham/everton without him. In his own stadium paid for by his own transfers. With his own players playing his beautiful game. Idyllic. Paradise. And all this while making profits and showing the health even the greatest companies in the world would be jealous of.

    And here come some uneducated cretins, lifes parasites and loudmouths with nothing better to do in their lives than cause mayhem and havoc for non serious matters and non-conseqeuntial scorelines either from the internet or with banners and planes

  • Leon

    Hunter 13
    “Unnecessary pressure”. I didn’t know I had such dressing room influence. LOL. You’ve just made my week. I can’t believe an intelligent adult wrote those last two comments of yours.
    Let’s hope they’re reading your comments then. We can’t fail.

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