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Germany reveals what the Premier League will be like in six years, and they’ve had enough

By Tony Attwood

“After six Bayern Championships in a row, the competition is looking for an antidote. And some motivation.”

So (roughly) translates the headline in SZ, Germany’s largest circulation daily, and the newspaper published in Bavaria – home of Bayern Munich.   And it tells a story that we might be considering here in a few years time – what do you do when one club wins the league over and over and over and….

In Spain they have a slightly lesser problem with usually two clubs fighting for the trophy, but in Italy it has gone the same way as Juventus has won the title six times in a row.  In France it looks like we are heading for a PSG procession of the same time.

But now, even in the homeland of Bayern Munich, questions are being asked, and  they focus on the word “repetition” for as the newspaper says “that is precisely where the well-being and woe of German football collide.”

They continue, “On the one hand, it is not so bad to be able to count at least one team in the Bundesliga that is so good that you do not have to be fearful when the team plays in Liverpool, Madrid or Barcelona.”  (Honest, that is a fair translation.)

“On the other hand, FC Bayern is therefore far from being competitive at home. On the contrary, it uses the excellently rewarded trips to the international melting pots to feed even more bacon – and consequently stacked in the pantry at home, we find the trophies.”  (I couldn’t think of an equivalent English metaphor, so bacon – the literal translation – is what I kept).

Their point is that success breeds success. And so develops what they call “that repetition loop”.  And the result is “asphyxiation”.

Now what Bayern are doing and have done is not unique – and indeed not even a record.   Juventus is currently aiming for its seventh win in a row, just as Olympique Lyon achieved from 2002 to 2008.  But what is unusual is that the dominant paper of the region, and the largest circulation paper in Germany is now suggesting that this is not quite a good thing.

Indeed they speak of “looking for an antidote”.   Something that can be delivered to fight off the previously unmentionable taboo: boredom.  The boredom of the same club winning all the time.

And they are actually hopeful that the reign of the eternal champions is coming to an end.  Robben, they note, is 34.  Ribéry is 35.  “The chronically broken metatarsal of goalkeeper Manuel Neuer has not passed the next stress test, and anyway, who actually trains this sanatorium after Jupp Heynckes?”

From which they perceive “encouragement” for the rest of Germany.  Because Bayern, it suggests, has one weakness: the season after a world cup.    Their argument is that clubs like Mönchengladbach ( 1974/75 ), Kaiserslautern ( 1990/91 ), Stuttgart ( 2006/07 ) or Dortmund ( 2010/11 ) all knew how to use this World Cup effect in their favour.

But even this seems to be a bit of a forlorn hope because they are now suggesting that the post-world cup drop didn’t happen in 2014.  And from this there is the ultimate doomsday projection:  “If they succeed again after the World Cup in Russia, the first well-wishers would probably already be known: the fleet footed Rainer Koch, (President of the South German Football Association.”

He could, they suggest, dig out last year’s speech, change the number of times the club had won the league, rewrite the title of his speech maybe and send out the same congratulatory email as last year, and the year before and the year before.

As it says in the headline “Munich wins the title on Matchday 29, that’s nothing special anymore.”

Can England and the Premier League escape from being a clone of Germany and Italy?  It was amusing for those of us not Manchester City supporters to see the front office of the Abu Dhabi United Group Investment and Development Limited knocked about a bit on the pitch recently, although the violent attack on the bus carrying the Abu Dhabi players should remind us that there are advantages of supporting a team whose hyper active “fans” tend to fly aeroplanes rather than throw bricks.

And we should not kid ourselves: the Premier League is heading the way of being a clone of the Italian League and the German League, unless some real form of restriction on the free flow of money into clubs is put in place.

Huddersfield, Arsenal, Liverpool and Man U have won the League three times in a row, but then slipped back.  Maybe not much in each case, but a bit.  What, in my view, we should be wary of is that three is just under halfway to seven, and once you get there, the competitiveness of the League has probably gone for good.

Does the length of player contract equal chances of success? Most certainly not.

33 comments to Germany reveals what the Premier League will be like in six years, and they’ve had enough

  • Steve Vallins

    I maybe wrong but since the money started to roll in at MC every manager has won the league , so throwing enough money at your objective you normally win
    Didn’t someone correlate that the amount spent on players will dictate where you finish , obviously there will always be a team or teams which will buck this trend
    This is where FFP has failed to reign in country owned clubs so as you say Tony the rest are going to be picking up the scraps

  • Lekan gunner

    Good write up…..I hope the FA will look into it while it’s still an interesting league and form its own version of FFP that can properly regulate whats they are assigned to do.

  • GMan

    It will be very interesting to see if the TV investment stays
    the same as dwindling customers lose
    interest and advertising revenues plummet.
    That should see off the rest of City’s competition

  • PTO

    Pre Abramovich the Premier League already was a two team league, with just Blackburn making up the numbers between the domination of United & to a lesser extent Arsenal for the first twelve years.
    City, love ’em or loath ’em took advantage of none existent (at that time) financial regulations and built a world class team with facilities to match. I have no axe to grind with them but am disappointed that FFP regs are not as strictly enforced as they might be.
    They are the best run team in the UK by a mile, which makes me very envious but respectful of what they’re achieving.

  • knobby

    European super league,
    That will also have one country against another meaning the Euros and the World Cup will decline in popularity.
    Footballs dead Jim.

  • Samuel Akinsola Adebosin

    I am not a big fan of Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Barcelona, PSG and Juventus. But a big fan of the Premier League and a chronic passionate big fan of Arsenal because my heart is always after them. But even then, I do admire the on the field successes the two biggest Spanish clubs and the one big Germany, French and Italian clubs have had and are still having to date domestically and in Europe. For, they look to dominate in their domestic competitions for years because they’ve lawfully acquired the unrivalled resources to achieved the domination. These resources are largely in human and financial capacity which their domestic rival club sides are unable to reach. And these successes attainment that are achieved by Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Barcelona, PSG and Jeventus cannot be a crime committed by them. Because their attainments to greatness are boned out of their serious hard work to archive greatness overtime. At onetime in the Premier League, us the Gunners are witnesses to how Fegie’s Man Utd dominated the PL Title win for long until Chelsea and Man City came on board to stop them continuing in their domination. And us the Gooners all saw how Arsenal were helpless to stop Man Utd dominating the PL Title win when Arsenal were their main PL Title rivals primarily due to their financial shortages suffered by them and secondarily the Pgmo anti-Arsenal PL Title win campaign.

  • WalterBroeckx

    PTO, it’s easy to be the best run team if you don’t have to worry about how to run it….

  • Nitram

    Steve Vallans

    a) “I maybe wrong but since the money started to roll in at MC every manager has won the league, so throwing enough money at your objective you normally win”

    I have been arguing this very point on here for months. Yes Pep is a good manager but I asked the question, could he win it without spending the £200 Million (net) plus he has ?

    I got told, of course he could. He’s a genius etc. etc.

    To which I said, well if that is the case why the f**k did he spend it then?

    To that they had no answer.

    It was similar at Chelsea.

    Titles won by:

    Mourinho 3
    Ancelloti 1
    Conte 1

    Plus the Champions league won by Di Matteo.

    Again, with that kind of money, unless you were completely useless, winning was inevitable.

    But my argument was/is, Chelsea could re employ any one of those 4 successful managers, and unless they were given the same money as Man City or Man Utd, not one of them would win the title now.

    Not only that, but if you asked any off them to manage Chelsea on a net zero spend as Wenger had to for 10 years they would struggle to even maintain a top 4 position.

    Yes, the manager cant be a numpty, but any manager worth his salt, given unlimited funds, will, or at least should, win the tile, especially as in Mourinho’s case for his first 2 titles when he was the only manager in that position. Even man utd had a budget.

    City and Guardiola are in a similarly unique position now, in that nobody, except Utd again to a degree, (but again they do still have a budget of sorts), have even close to there resources.

    Yes they play lovely football, are the best team in the country, and will win the title by a mile and deservedly so, but so they bloody well should.

    b) “Didn’t someone correlate that the amount spent on players will dictate where you finish , obviously there will always be a team or teams which will buck this trend”

    I have shown on here many many times that titles and trophies directly relate to net spend. Not necessarily on a year by year basis, you can spend £100 million this year and win nothing, and certainly not when you just have occasional ‘splurges’. But consistently high spending averaging out to £50 Million plus a season as per Chelsea back in the day, City and United now, will result in titles and trophies, and here’s the proof.

    (Please excuse any slight errors as I have done all the following from the top of my head, but it is I’m sure pretty accurate)

    Since Arsenals last triumph every title bar one (Leicester City) has been won by the 3 mega spenders, Chelsea, Man City and Man Utd.

    Even the Fa Cup has been dominated by those 3 with the honourable exception of our good selves (3), Wigan (1) and Portsmouth (1).

    Even the league cup, a cup in which most teams play a second string has been dominated by them with honourable exceptions going to Liverpool, Spurs, Swansea and Birmingham.

    So over a period of about 15 years, that’s 45 trophies all bar 1 league title out of 15 (Leicester City) and 9 cups out of 30 (3 Arsenal, 1 each for Liverpool, Spurs, Wigan, Birmingham, Swansea and Portsmouth) have been won by the 3 mega rich clubs.

    That’s 35 trophies out of 45.

    And only 5 out of 45 going to a club outside the traditional ‘big 6’

    I think that suggests that money may have something to do with it as opposed to players length of contract.

    c) “This is where FFP has failed to reign in country owned clubs so as you say Tony the rest are going to be picking up the scraps”

    Exactly.

    I was fully behind FFP, but it was never going to work because the very people it was trying to reign in have far too much money, and therefore power and influence, to allow it to happen.

  • PTO

    Walter, that’s my point exactly.
    If we’d had our own Abramovich or Sheik Mansour we could have been in that same position and who would have complained? I know I wouldn’t have.

  • Chris

    PTO,

    I don’t know about the best run team. You cannot compare the way they are run with the ay MU, Pool! or Arsenal are run. When you have no debt, a never-empty cash dispensing machine, infrastructures you don’t have to pay for, it makes a lot of things easier, like hiring staff, etc.

    Compare that to Pool!, Arsenal Spurs or MU who have to finance their stadia, payback debt, etc. I’ts not the same world.

    Bayern, yes, they are a well run club. They are at their present position not because some mogul threw money at them. They just managed the club perfectly for the past 30 odd years.

    But to me ‘well run’ does not apply to City. ‘Rich’ does.

    In french there is this saying : ‘winning with no perils is thriumphing without glory’. To me that is City, that is Guardiola. The day Guardiola takes on a Stoke, a Burnley or an Aston Villa and wins something, then I’ll be impressed. Being able to buy his winning team – whatever his tactical merits and he definitely has some – is not something I admire. B

    Building a team, like Lucin Favre did repeatedly in Berlin, Moenchengladbach, Nice, that is talent. Same applies to Mr Wenger who did that, then oversaw the transition to the Emirates and managed 19 CL qualifications most of them with no star bought for a s..tload of money.

  • Nitram

    Chris

    “winning with no perils is thriumphing without glory”.

    Spot on again.

    That is another thing I’ve been saying for a long time.

    PTO

    “If we’d had our own Abramovich or Sheik Mansour we could have been in that same position and who would have complained? I know I wouldn’t have.”

    I know who would of though. The media.

    If back in June 2003 Roman Abramovich had turned up on the steps of Highbury and then proceeded to bank roll us into dominating the Premier League there would of been uproar.

    Of course I can only speculate, but given how we are treated anyway one can only speculate as to how it would of been had we gazumped their beloved Man Utd.

    It wouldn’t of been pretty.

    Tell me I’m wrong?

    And as for:

    “I know I wouldn’t have.”

    Well, that’s just a matter of personal opinion. Would I of complained ? Would I of liked it ? I’m honestly don’t think so.

    But what I do know is, as I said above, we would not of been extolled in the way Chelsea were, of that I am certain. I believe everything possible would of been done to deem our ‘resources’ as at best, unfair, against the spirit of the game, or more likely, illegal or cheating.

    Cant prove it of course, but that’s my view anyway.

    And secondly I would always know in my heart that, as that old French saying says, ‘Winning Without Peril is Triumph without Glory’.

    As I keep saying, anyone, and I mean anyone, with City’s resources WILL win the title.

    Honestly, where is the ‘glory’ in that?

    I suppose it’s a personal thing but no, not for me.

  • fengunner

    It (the EPL) is getting boring already. Not least because the FA keep accepting dirty money into clubs, and FFP is ignored by UEFA for whatever reason!

    To be fair, both Manchester United and Chelsea have been told by their respective owners to start being self sustainable, and that is probably the reason for recent “blips” for them in terms of silverware and league position.

    Simply put, nobody in the EPL can match the money that City are splashing out, and the cycle of the One Team League continues.

    It looks as though another one of those teams is on it’s way to the EP. Wolverhampton Wanderers, owned by Fosun International, have been spending big (to the extent that other Championship clubs complained to the EFL), and should join the party next season.

    Let’s face it, if Burnley can challenge for the Top 6, anything should be possible!

  • PTO

    Chris
    ‘But to me ‘well run’ does not apply to City. ‘Rich’ does’
    How about ‘rich well run club’ then? I like what City do.
    Anyway, we missed out when foreign owners started putting their wealth into UK clubs. It was a good opportunity (and maybe our board at the time thought Kronke would be our “Abramovich”; I know I did), but we chose the self financing model when there were other options.
    Arsenal are still one of the worlds’ wealthiest clubs, but just imagine how it could have been if our marvellous stadium had been paid for by a ‘sugar daddy’.
    Some folk here get a bit smug about the so called ‘Arsenal Way’ & troll out the old ‘If that had been Arsenal’ & ‘If we’d had done that’ cliches. I’m more pragmatic & would rather have seen Premier League titles & Champions League wins at literally any (legal) cost.

  • PTO

    Nitram
    ‘If back in June 2003 Roman Abramovich had turned up on the steps of Highbury and then proceeded to bank roll us into dominating the Premier League there would of been uproar.’
    There was pretty well much an uproar (over Chelsea) anyway, in the media & on the blogs.
    I would admit that we might have got one of those owners who put their clubs in hock or used them to launder bent money, but I still think we missed out somehow and of what we might have achieved with that kind of financing.

  • Gooner Mikey

    Feed bacon………..snout in the trough…………

  • Gooner Mikey

    It was I that calculated a few seasons ago that over a decade, Chleski and City had amassed just over one premier league point for each £1m net spend, meanwhile SAF manged about six points while AW was managing some 45+ points.

    If you outspend the opposition significantly enough you’ll win. As has been explained numerous times, just changing the manager without said spending is likely to achieve nothing. This is why (and I await the slagging off) I have supported AW throughout. I do not believe that Maureeniho, SAF, Guardiola, Klopp et al would either have the ability or (more importantly) the commitment to achieve what AW has achieved. But then why let a few facts stand in the way of some dodgy hypothesis by a bloke down the pub or an idiot on MotD.

  • Nitram

    PTO

    As I said, if you want to win at “literally any (legal) cost” as you put it, that’s up to you.

    But why say this:

    “Some folk here get a bit smug about the so called ‘Arsenal Way’ & troll out the old ‘If that had been Arsenal’ & ‘If we’d had done that’ cliches.”

    –Why is it ‘smug’ to see being back rolled as a route with no glory?

    “Anyway, we missed out when foreign owners started putting their wealth into UK clubs. It was a good opportunity (and maybe our board at the time thought Kronke would be our “Abramovich”; I know I did), but we chose the self financing model when there were other options.”

    –Why is it ‘smug’ to want to win those trophies via a self sustaining model?

    You say we “missed out” I say we ‘dodged a bullet’, it’s just a different point of view.

    That doesn’t make me or anyone else ‘smug’ for holding that opinion.

    “(and maybe our board at the time thought Kronke would be our “Abramovich”; I know I did”

    Are you honestly telling me you thought the board didn’t know Kronke’s plan?

    Do you not think they discussed it? And even if they didn’t they only had to look at his modus operandi at the other clubs he owned.

    You say you thought he was going to be another ‘Abramovich’. Please can you explain or show me how you came to that conclusion?

    I for 1 was never under that impression.

    And just to conclude.

    I don’t know your financial circumstances but tell me something, if somebody out of the blue quadrupled your income, with the caveat that even if that runs out they can just double it again, and again and again, do you think you could run your household a bit better?

    You know, like buying a bigger house?

    You know, like buying a bigger car ?

    You know, like going on bigger and better holidays?

    I know I could. Because at the moment I find it quite tough.

    My wife and I count every penny. We live in a flat, drive small cars and are lucky to go away every 3 or 4 years.

    It’s not easy, but we manage, and we are happy. Even more we are proud of what we have achieved, because we are in clover compared to where we were. And we got here through hard work. No more, no less.

    But if somebody suddenly gave me that sort of unlimited money would my life be easier? Of course it would. Lets be honest it would be a piece of piss wouldn’t it.

    Would I be happier ? Probably. Nice things make people happy.

    But would I have the same sense of pride ? Would I have the same sense of achievement ?

    Why would I ?

    I’m not saying it’s necessarily wrong.

    But were is the achievement? Or as the French say, ‘Were is the Glory ‘when you are just ‘given’ everything ?

    And surely when you transfer this analogy back to sport, isn’t the ‘Glory’ everything ?

    I don’t know, is there aright and a wrong way? Maybe not. But I do know the way I prefer, and to suggest that makes me, or anyone else for that matter ‘smug’ is a bit of a cheap shot.

  • Andrew

    Pep Guardiola has managed 3 clubs, Barcelona, Bayern and Man City and his access to funds (and players) has been almost limitless. FFP is, and always will be, a joke and on this Wenger was right he always had reservations about the fair implementation of the rules. Since then both Platini and the rule book has gone out of the window. Until Pep actually builds, not buys, a successful team his prowess as a manager will always have a slight doubt unlike Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger.

    As far as club domination is concerned I think Celtic takes the honours. I would hate to be a Celtic fan knowing that you are going to win the SPL every year ever since the football authorities effectively destroyed Rangers. Brendan Rogers was actually being touted as the next Arsenal manager because of his ‘great success’ at Celtic who were beaten 12-1 by PSG over 2 legs in the Champion’s League and then knocked out of the Europa League by Zenit – some success!!

  • Nitram

    Andrew

    Somebody recently wrote an article on Untold informing us how wonderful Brendan Rogers would be as the next Arsenal manager?

    I did respond to it by suggesting that he was possibly mistaken, but I must admit it was difficult typing whilst laying on my back with my legs in the air and tears of laughter rolling down my cheeks, but I managed.

    I know Untold are fairly open to a cross section of opinion but it has to be said it was one of the oddest articles I have ever read.

  • JimB

    It seems odd that the argument has become one about the evils of clubs with outside sources of finance when the biggest problem highlighted in the article is of clubs that have got where they are through their own means.

    The Bundesliga and Serie A have become virtual processions for Bayern Munich and Juve respectively. La Liga is almost always shared between Barca and Real Madrid (with honourable mention, currently, to Atletico). And, as the article points out, success breeds success – for so long and to such an extent that there is no longer anything resembling a level playing field in the respective leagues. And the thing with success breeding success is that it has an equal and opposite effect – failure breeding failure. Of course, this isn’t a scientific formula. And there are anomalies. But the status quo tends to be restored fairly quickly.

    The principal cause and culprit has been the Champions League and the financial gulf that it created between the haves and the have nots. It created a virtuous circle for those clubs who happened to be in a good period at the time that it was launched. And it seems that the established elite clubs try to fix the odds further in their favour year on year. FFP was one such tactic. It was supposedly brought in to stop clubs going catastrophically into debt. But, in reality, it was principally a means by which the established clubs could consolidate their elite status. It had little to do with fair play at all.

    I don’t buy the bizarre notion that it is okay for a club to dominate in perpetuity so long as it generates its own funds. Domination by one or two (or even three or four) clubs isn’t a desirable outcome under any circumstances. That isn’t sport as I understand it. And yet the clubs that make the most noise about FFP – namely, the established elite – have been, are and will forever be happy for their own clubs to dominate in perpetuity. Financial dominance isn’t inherently a bad thing as far as these clubs are concerned. It is only bad when it is not them dominating. Sheer hypocrisy.

    It is a nonsense to tell an owner of a football club that he can’t invest in his company. Just as it would be a nonsense to do likewise with the owner of a car company. Investment leads to growth. There are only two ways to put football back on a level playing field again. Either pool all income and distribute it to all clubs evenly – and, let’s face it, that will never happen. Or allow all clubs to attract and accept investment.

  • PTO

    Nitram
    I find it ‘smug’ that they feel that ‘we’re The Arsenal, we wouldn’t do that’.
    And that they counter any transgression with “If Arsenal did that’ or “If that had been us”.
    Actually I did think we would be bank rolled by Kronke, although I suppose (since you mention it) the board might have had different expectations. Shows how naive I must be.
    And also like you I would take the money, spend it with impunity and not give it a second thought.

  • Nitram

    PTO

    I think calling people ‘smug’ for simply having a different view is an insult. But if you think I’m ‘smug’ that’s up to you. And as for:

    “…and maybe our board at the time thought Kronke would be our “Abramovich”; I know I did.”

    This from an article on the BBC website back in 2011:

    “I have worked with Stan Kroenke at board meetings over the past couple of years and I believe he has the best interests of Arsenal at heart,” said Gunners boss Wenger.

    “He understands the club’s heritage and traditions and our ambition to run the club in a way which protects our long-term future.”

    Arsenal chairman Hill-Wood echoed: “The board of directors and I consider it a key responsibility to protect the ethos and spirit of the club.

    “Mr Kroenke, although relatively new to Arsenal, has shown himself to be a man who values and respects the history and traditions of this very special club that we cherish.”

    The stock exchange statement continued: “It is their [KSE’s] current intention that, if the offer becomes or is declared unconditional, they will continue to support and adhere to the self-sustaining business model hitherto pursued by the board of Arsenal.”

    So reading that, please tell me, where at any point in those statements did you got the impression that Kronke was going to be another Abramovich?

    For the full article go to: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/13040475

    “And also like you I would take the money, spend it with impunity and not give it a second thought”

    Don’t know if that’s a ‘typo’ but I don’t know where you got that impression of me.

    If we were to be bank rolled I would have no choice in the matter, but it would not be my preferred way of running the club, but it would not stop me supporting them, in the same way going broke and dropping to the 4th division wouldn’t.

    I just know that any trophies we won on the back of being bank rolled would not invoke the same emotions as would winning them under the model we are currently employing.

    But as I say, that’s just my opinion.

  • Gord

    OT: Superleague

    Marca has an article on a proposal by persons unknown starting an international superleague.

    http://www.marca.com/en/world-cup/2018/04/10/5accb0bf468aebf9178b463d.html

    Is this the European super league with a new set of clothes? Is this Netflix and/or Google looking to get into football?

    Any bet that most of that 25 billion ends up in the retirement accounts of football association executives?

  • PTO

    Nitram
    Sorry, I thought the analogy of your family being gifted huge sums was you saying it was acceptable to you.
    I’ve not noticed if you use the “if that were us’ cliche, but I do find it smug ( in this context) and at other times lacking in original or creative thinking. It’s so cringe worthy. I know the monosyllabic one line posters here who drag it out and wonder why they even bother. Is that the best they can manage?
    Re your BBC quote. At no point did anybody say if there would or would not be any financial input. Nevertheless my expectations were that there would be, simply because we were going down the rich foreign owner route. So I was wrong.
    Too late now anyway.

  • Nitram

    PTO

    “Re your BBC quote. At no point did anybody say if there would or would not be any financial input.”

    I’m guessing you missed this bit then:

    The stock exchange statement continued: “It is their [KSE’s] current intention that, if the offer becomes or is declared unconditional, they will continue to support and adhere to the self-sustaining business model hitherto pursued by the board of Arsenal.”

    “…….they will continue to support and adhere to the self-sustaining business model hitherto pursued by the board of Arsenal.”

    I think ‘at that point’ KSE (or Stan Kronke if you prefer) were making it perfectly clear that there would NOT be any financial input from them.

    How clear do you want it?

    I find this very funny:

    “……but I do find it smug ( in this context) and at other times lacking in original or creative thinking.”

    Please tell me you’re not being serious?

    So you think pumping unlimited amounts of money, way beyond that of any of your opponents is ‘original’ or ‘creative’ thinking do you? Seriously?

    I can just hear how that would go down across the board rooms of the Premier League:

    CEO: Right Ladies and gentlemen, we’re here today to come up with some ‘original’ and ‘creative’ ideas as to how we can win the Premier League.

    IDEAS MAN: Can I suggest we spend 10 times the amount of money everyone else does.

    CEO: Get out you moron !!!!!!

    I’ll give you one thing PTO, you have got a sense of humour.

  • Chris

    PTO

    you say : any (legal)cost.

    This is the issue. City got a brand new stadium financed by the taxpayer. So did WHU.
    This to begin with is not ‘legal’ under quite a few competitive laws.
    Then City spend whatever they want. Ignoring the rule book the FA has given.
    The FA does zilch.

    So, basically, they get away with not respecting the rule book.
    So the (legal) in your statement is the issue to me.

    And as Nitram said it. Wenger and Ferguson have proven talent. Guardiola has manager capabilities yet he’s not ever proven being able to build a team other then buying the best players money can get. Sure, he has, in the end, in each club, found the right balance. But he’s never hit a dry patch. And not shown any ‘stamina’.

    And considering his dealings with the cheikhs and the City group at large, what comes to my mind is we are looking at a huge business operation on several continents, with all sorts of ramifications enabling bypassing of FFP rules accross continents, not just a coaching a football club.

  • PTO

    Nitrram
    No, what I consider ‘not creative thinking is people trolling out that same old cliche ‘if this was Arsenal’ or ‘If Arsenal did that’. Is that the best they can manage? What they say in boardrooms is probably far more articulate.
    You’re right about ‘the self sustaining model, I missed that in your comment, but it doesn’t alter the fact that my exectations at the time were for a huge financial input fro Kronke, which I would have welcomed.
    Enjoy your evening.
    I’ll be watching City v ‘Pool naturally.

  • PTO

    Chris
    I’m well aware of the taxpayer funded stadia and the outcry against them. I’m on board with that, but by (legal) I mean within FFP or any other rules that could involve Arsenal being penalised in any way.
    Not bothered with the manager comparisons. Has no relevance to my opinions on this issue of club funding.
    And regarding skirting FFP rules; clever sports lawyers will look for wrinkles to exploit. Doesn’t make it right I know.

  • PTO

    Elnenys’ red card rescinded.

  • I think the key point comes from the lines
    It is a nonsense to tell an owner of a football club that he can’t invest in his company. Just as it would be a nonsense to do likewise with the owner of a car company. Investment leads to growth.
    This argument was discussed in full by the EU as it drew up its sports policy and therein recognised that sport played in leagues is inherently different from commercial enterprise wherein anyone who can raise the money can set up a new business. I do of course recognise that not everyone agrees with this, but it is the dominant view in the EU and affects all activities in sports which are competitive restricted, in that companies and organisations are not free to compete save through going via a pre-ordained, long and labourious route.

  • Nitram

    PTO

    “but it doesn’t alter the fact that my exectations at the time were for a huge financial input from Kronke”,

    But why on earth did you have those expectations?

    Are you really telling me you didn’t know that KSE (Kronke) stated from the very start that they would not provide ANY, let alone ‘huge’ financial support ?

    Did you think they where lying when they said it ?

    Did you expect for some reason they would change there mind ?

    Did you not read, hear or see any of what was said at the time?

    I find that really odd.

    “……which I would have welcomed.”

    As I said, that’s up to you but as I have shown many times, ANY and I mean ANY club will win the league with Cities finances.

    If that would make you happy fine.

    Personally I see no achievement in it at all. Each to there own.

    Enjoy the match. Given Cities line up there should be goals. I’m going for the obvious really, a high scoring narrow win for City, 3 – 2 or 4 – 3, something like that.

  • PTO

    Nitram
    No I don’t remember seeing that statement (truly).
    I’ve read since Hill-Wood said something like “we don’t want Kroenke’s money”, but my own expectations were the opposite, and in any case who was to stop him putting in millions if he so wanted to. He was in a position to tell them all to eff off, he would do as he pleased. In the event he took money out.
    I was of course left disappointed.
    Yeah, Liverpool will probably score & hold for a narrow overall win.

  • Chris

    Tony,

    on the ‘investment’ part, I follow you.
    On the ‘operating costs’, I stand with the NFL : salary cap.
    Let each team decide for a ‘nurture and develop’ or ‘buy and play’ strategy or any combination thereof.

    Any company writing operating losses has a real issue that has to be adressed. Who guarantess that the cheikh/owner/mogul/conglomerate will still be paying the salaries in 2 or 4 years of the big contracts if revenues are not in line with expenses. We’ve seen that in the past. One can boost a team for a short term result and just leave shambles and have bought a success by not caring about sustainability and not caring about bankrupcy. Financial doping of sorts. like in business, there needs to be some sort of level playing field.

    There comes a moment where there is a disruption of competition.

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