By Walter Broeckx
For those who don’t like me to say : ‘we told you so’, please stop now because in this article we will say: we told you so. So after this warning you can read further but don’t complain about it.
When the game started we knew that a draw would keep us top of the league. If that affected the players I don’t know but it seemed that we started slow compared to other games. I also have the impression that the WBA pitch is a bit smaller and shorter than the pitch we are used in the Emirates and our fluent passing game was not really to be seen at the start.
Those who want to suggest that WBA are a crap team can ask the opinion of the MU supporter. They will probably say that WBA are crap but that didn’t stop them from winning at OT just a week ago. Arsenal had to play 90 minutes of CL football in midweek and that could have affected the legs a bit but for some strange reason it affected us more in the first half than in the second half.
Losing Ramsey was not what we wanted of course. Our on fire and in form player of the season start was clearly having some problems early in the game. Because my stream in the first half was rather blurry and stopped a few times I couldn’t see what really happened to him but it was clear that he was having some physical problems. But I cannot say that this was down to some kicking from the WBA players.
So we weren’t as good as we can be. WBA were harassing us (no problem with that tactic) but I did noticed other things that are forbidden in my law of the games book. But the ref seemed to have only one team on the field that could commit fouls. But more on him later. You know the bit were we will say: told you so.
The goal from WBA was a rather disappointing goal to concede. We lost our organisation after a corner and allowed Yacob too much space to head at the first post. Psychological a great moment for WBA to score and a bad one for Arsenal to concede. It would be a big test from now on.
Anelka had the chance to make it 2-0 just after the interval but he somehow stepped on the ball. That was a lucky moment. But after that we pressed them back and fought back on character. And that is all I ask from the players. Sometimes things don’t work out on the field ( a little bit of we told you so played a bit of a part I think) but if the players go for it and do their best then that is all I want and can ask.
Wilshere was like an outlaw on the field and I mean this as a person who was not allowed to go in to any challenge or being called back for a foul but on the other hand could be pushed, pulled, kicked without that the ref would give a foul to Arsenal. But this same Wilshere scored a vital goal for us. His shot took a slight deflection on Olsson and ended up in the back of the net.
After that Arsenal went in search for the winning goal but the few chances we had weren’t converted. Maybe we missed a fit Ramsey to make it happen? It was Arsenal pressing and WBA looking to score on the counter. So it remained tight till the final whistle.
I can live with a point at WBA to be honest. And given the circumstances I even feel happy about it. WBA are a difficult side at the Hawthorns and even away from home can cause some upsets. Remember last week. I feel a bit disappointed because our winning run came to an end but it had to happen at some point in time. And on the day that the spuds lost 0-3 at home to West Ham suddenly our result isn’t that bad at all. It just is another example on how open the PL has become and how difficult it is to win a game this season.
Now we come to the told you so part. I remember that from time to time people come on here and use all kinds of words to describe the work we did with the referees. We are named paranoid, whiners, idiots. But on days like this I sit here with a double feeling. The feeling that all we did over the last seasons is not something that fans of other teams can brush aside as biased or irrelevant.
In his referee preview and I thank Adam for his great work on this so far this season we predicted what kind of ref Mason is and probably would be. And if we have to give our referee preview a score from 0-100 on accuracy I think we scored around 150. All the work we have done in those years has given us a big database and we can predict how refs will do their game. As we did today. Or better said like Adam did today.
I think that when we expose those refs for what they are and when they keep on doing their thing as we predicted at the end all you doubters can do is accept that what we did at Untold Arsenal was spot on.
The only thing that is missing is that the media keep on ignoring our work and our numbers. And I feel they will brush it under the table until someone really pulls off the lid of the sewer and comes out with the truth. So I feel great about the fact that our referee reviews work has lead to us being able to predict such things at a regular basis. But I also feel sad that others will only accept the findings of our work when it kicks them in their private parts.
And I feel sad that having such refs like we had today will one day lead to another Eduardo, another Ramsey, another Diaby, another Gibbs, another Sagna (twice). And on the day that happens I will have to write once again: we told you so. But I will not be happy at all that we will be proven right once again. But I know it will happen. With refs like Mason and some others (Probert next game maybe?) it will happen. Maybe they will listen then?
By the way just seen the foul on Wilshere again on a normal TV screen and a tackle from behind going through the man and then ending up playing the ball is a foul. Anywhere on the field. Should have been a clear penalty.
It only adds more to what we said in our ref preview: no penalties…. Damn we are good… 🙁
It hits the gut each time I hear or read the mantra ‘Wilshire has got injury problems with his ankles’. The only problem Wilshire has with his ankles is the refs who won’t penalise the ankle kickers. Game after game we see Wilshire kicked to the ground and he is not just an Arsenal prospect, he is an England prospect. Who cares he plays for Arsenal so you have the right to kick him! And there is no corruption in English football!
I sincerely hope you are wrong about future breaks.
Off subject I know but spuds 0 wet spam 3.
Listening to 606 on BBC Radio 5 this evening the spud fans were bemoaning their defeat and damming the manager. Who last week was the best manager since their double team manager!
No one commented on the 5 000 mile round trip the team had for their Thursday cup game The game and the journey must have had some affect on their players match fitness. How little does the average fan gives thought to what is actually happening in football each week.
you are 100% correct, we had 4 or 5 penalty calls which were waved aside today, despite the fact ive seen refs give penalties to other teams for the exact same reason. maybe wenger should start giving refs and the fa the hairdryer treatment of his own.
I thought I also saw one of our players (Kos?) wrestled to the ground by a WBA player in the box with the ball in flight from a corner. I have seen them given against us(actually Kos conceded one such pen against dzeko last season).
Good write up. totally agree with you on the referee seeing only fouls from Arsenal. I lost count of the times Wilshare was fouled without given a foul. It’s simply a ridiculous absolutely horrible performance by the ref. today.
keep up your good work in the hope that one day FA would wake up and take a note of all the analysis of referees you do here.
It’s accurate, honest and done with rigorous methods.
the game was very tough today and a draw is not bad. it’s good to see the boys working hard but I am disappointed about the we gave them a soft goal.
How on earth is not a penalty the one on Willshere is beyond belief.
I did not see the first half(work)but sensed the ref forget he had whistle.
Top in the table .100 mil spenders stuffed at their home.Wow what more can I ask.
1-4 i predicted for this match, boy was i way out, so i am disappointed, but the team did not play well enough to make that score, (ref did not make it any easier) but they played well enough to get the equaliser, which makes me happy.
Am i glad that AW don’t listen to me, i was calling for him to take Jack off at half time, and who gets the equaliser? Jack. I shall forthwith refrain from doing that, i hope. Glad Jack got a goal, and it settles him down some more and builds his confidence.
Still, a day of pleasing results, especially spuds 0-3 defeat to West Ham, who played a packed (or many) midfield(ers) (i wonder where Sam got that one from?).
All in all we’re still top and i hope this is/was our blip for now, so we can start a new unbeaten run after the break.
Come on gunners, forward ever.
Walter –
I agree the foul on Wilshare is a clear penalty and a booking as well. It’s a bad tackle from behind and had Wilshare been a bit faster it would have broken his leg.
the ref. performance was just very bad; it was strange to Mason whistle all fouls on WBA and not seeing fouls on Arsenal. In a spell about the start of the second half to around 70 I had the impression that the ref. completely ignored all fouls on Arsenal.
Congratulations to Untold for predicting the ref performance so accurately. Proof of the correctness of the analysis in the past three years by our ref reviewers.
Stonewall, obvious penalty totally ignored by the ref.
The positive is that, against a better team than Aston Villa, we still managed to draw rather than lose. Our players are tough as well as brilliant!
I think we missed Bacary Sagna today, though. I just watched the first half of the Napoli match and he was brilliant. Hope he’s soon back.
We should have also had a penalty just after half time when Jack was dumped in a heap by a slide tackle which took his legs away. The tackler was nowhere near the ball. I would be interested to see this again. Alan Smith thought it a definite penalty. We have had half a dozen good shouts for penalties this season so far and nothing given, but I suppose we should be used to it by now. I think Wenger must be resigned to it because he never even seems to mention these dodgy calls anymore in his post match interviews, I guess he is fed up with being called a whinger.
Well Walter, hope springs eternal
This week the pressed picked up a smoking gunner…
Maybe next week they’ll pick up your smoking gun
Can anyone here who goes to emirates, put up a banner, written on it, cheats, and put the faces of taylor, probert, mason, and of coarse dean. And dont forget the riley d***
We need to move before we lose our run and we go another season trophyless, and everybody blame Wenger.
And Walter u were difinetly spot on, its not rocket science to see it, u put it, it happened no coincidense, and not the first time u did… Some people cant accept it cause they are either not arsenal fans, or blind……
Please we need something to do to change this, maybe facebook page, twittet, android app or anything, youtube, a video showing bias, starting with riley s****
Dont know just figure it out
Walter, good write up. In addition to the non-given penalties on Wilshere, there was a possible penalty on Giroud fairly early in the first half – I would need to see it again, it looked as if he was felled from behind.
As the match went on and the WBA players discovered they could get away with fouls unpunished they became more and more blatant – a poor reflection on a corrupt ref.
However, lets give credit to the Arsenal for not giving up even when they knew the ref was against them, they chased down the equalizer and hunted for the winner right to the end.
Mason – should be in jail.
WARNING!!!!! The following post is an example of things that usually are banned from publication. However for reasons to show you just how pathetic the WOB brigade are I will publish this comment. Just look inside the head of the WOB brigade after Arsenal dropping their first point in about 2 months time.
WARNING HOWEVER THE FOLLOWING COMMENT CONTAINS SWEAR WORDS AND IS HIGHLY ABUSIVE. HERE YOU GO:
Wenger’s a c%nt, moan at Wilshere for smoking? guess what cuntface it’s legal, you’re the richest paid manager in the world won nothing for donkey’s years and knocking off a bird in Paris, who are you to preach morals? Die Wenger Die!
EDITOR NOTE: don’t worry I have just banned him right after publishing his idiotic words.
Mason today was a typical bent referee in action… It was a blasphemy to give Arsenal a foul yet he called a foul everytime a westbrom player went down. I found it highly moronic when he booked Wilshere for dishing back what he got and yet he let their players do whatever they wanted with him. I dont even remember him calling a foul for Wilshere but it may have been because i was so busy cursing at the TV and calling Mason all sorts of names.
I have seen so many ref performances like that against us but they got to me everytime. I get so boiled up that i want to stop watching and leave the room but its my love for Arsenal that makes me sit back and endure the bs. I just dont know until when will these bastards get away with what they are doing. Pricks
It’s just pointless. And he probably isn’t an Arsenal supporter. It is so full of hatred it is almost threatening
At 10:08pm
I only see one around here, and it’s you.
Surprise, surprise.
MOTD don’t show a thing.
It is a BBC Manchester production, after all.
It looks live every single penalty decision this weekend or lack off was wrong.
Well done Reily for levelling the standard.
Thats it no more MOTD streaming from me. I mean whats the use of watching the highlights of a game when they are tinkered with to suit the agenda? That Kos supposed foul they focused on was never in a gazzilion years a penalty. Who is actually suprised they left out the wilshere incidents?
@Walter
At about minute 20/21 Giroud seemed to be grounded by two defenders in the WBA box. Strangely there were no replays, but would appreciate your comments.
Also, Ramsey seemed to get the knock which later took him off the field around minute 16; although he may have received a further kick later.
Re 10.18 – glad that he is banned – that type of filthy and criminally minded sociopath is incapable of being a fan.
BTJ
10:08’s last paragraph wes ‘irony’
The little shit posted the same stuff elsewhere.
Watched the match, didn’t think the Giroud incident at 20′ was worth a peno shout. At least from the camera angles Sky replayed.
Rambo got plenty of ‘attention’.
I haven’t seen a decent Arsenal performance in ages. The Napoli performance would have been par for the course a few years back.
Why Wenger didn’t reward Gnabry with a starting berth after his goal against Swansea is beyond me.
Gibbs play in the final third is terrible and why are Arsenal lumbered with a player like Bendtner who wouldn’t enhance any team in the Premier or Championship.
Same post on goonerholic, doggie.
Judging by some of tne posts on here, I’m glad I went go-karting and missed the match! Also, great credit to the Untold team with their ref preview, spot on as usual. Oh well, still top on goal difference, players to come back after the internationals, and Spurs lost anyway! As the season progresses, they will find out just how difficult it is for London clubs to win the league title because of the derbies; for the record, so far they have played 4, won 1 drawn 1 lost 2, add this to the fact that they have played 2 ‘contenders’ and failed to win either of them, and they aren’t a title-challenging squad just yet…
i’m not much a fan of jack up front on the wing. he was careening around doing his usual bumper car/pinball thing constantly heading downwards with his arms outstretched to signal to the referee that there ought to have been a foul; indeed, i was glad that he shut me up with the equalizer (i was hoping that ramsey would hold out long enough to sub in rosicky for jack, altho it was still good to see ramsey off with that ginger right side. playing him up front on the left wing takes him out of his game, IMO, granted he’s played/scored from there this season… still, in an ideal world he’s in that midfield starting up the attack, then positioning himself to pick up some goal minge whenever the opportunity presents itself.
so yeah, rosicky prolly isn’t fully back up to speed yet and obviously arsenal’s first team is designed to have that pace of theo on the right wing along with a cazorla/esque creative presence on the left… and well, when it’s all said and done at least they got the point to alphabetically stay atop the table with the scousers right there with us in terms of points/GD. speaking of the scouse, someone’s gotta come in and knock them down a peg or two cuz if they keep hanging around into the holidays methinks the 4th place trophy will be highly contested this year (that is, unless spurs showed us a preview of the future as the team underwhelms to ~58-62pts and then the company line is “they need time to jel”)
ahem. indeed, i get that we’re not in our ideal situation, as the loss of sagna was felt today with some meh jenkinsonian play. i get what he’s trying to do running up leading the attack via bringing up the ball with pace, but still there were at least 3-4 moments in the game where he donned his superman cape and decided to take on the entire world, let alone WBA and their ~3/+ defenders. he was also the back who was responsible for marking yukov when he strolled in to get that goal via the header. i was hoping that arsenal had a couple’a goals in them to cover the loss of sagna (who i hope hope hope plzdeargodandlilbabyjesus PLEEEAAAASSSEEEE come/s back after the int’l break)
that’s not to say that i don’t admire the jenkinsonian flair for the offensive…. it’s not the concept of the concept that’s wrong here, it’s just that jenks needs to develop over time and lock down his defensive game b4 he’s committed to taking on solo runs @ the opposing defense as the solo play creator that grew up loving a team that recently got around to putting his giant mug on the side of the stadium. c’est la vie…. smoke ’em if you got ’em (*rimshot*) but that ain’t my bag.
speaking of, brazen warrior flimflam caught another yellow today…. so am i correct in remembering that he caught one midweek against napoli and therefore he doesn’t have consecutive games with a yellow, i.e. no flamini for the next fixture. methinks arsenal has 1, maybe 2 more tomato cans to deal with in the league b4 that run of city/liverpool/chelsea(CC) comes @ the end of the month into november, so here’s to hoping that they can max out points from the mid-low table sides and be in a co-/leading position b4 the city and scouser fixtures. even tho i’m a bit new to arsenality, i wasn’t quite assuming that they had officially turned themselves up 3 notches and became instant contenders or anything, but still…. even tho i think this team has its best football in the near/ish future, it never hurts to take as many points as you can from the teams that most people gloss over when coming up with lofty point totals for their team @ season’s end. again, c’est la vie.
also, man, can someone talk me off of the ledge and remind me why i shouldn’t feel a nauseating feeling in my stomach whenever i see bendtner warming up and ready to enter the game? i hear he was quite the one-man-team aka TGSTEL during euro2012, but still…. if he’s that good and he’s been that detached from the team, clearly there has to be some reason/s that are beyond pure potential-on-paper.
merci beaucoup gentlepeeps, and thanks to the admins and the whole lot of you regular commenters for providing me with a wonderful site to read when i want to stay up on my arsenal without subjecting myself to the usual ABA/AAA whinging (i.e. moyes gives januzaj a start against a relegation-level side, 2 goals ensue and he’s heralded as a proactive genius… wenger doesnt go out and buy $15mil+ squad players, and therefore when he’s gotta go to his youth they step up and perform like gnabry, yet it’s still an indictment of the shortsighted wenger that he had to use an 18 year old @ right wing… nevermind the goal, that wasn’t a mellifluous stroke of genius like penciling in januzaj into the starting XI.
btw gents, that januzaj kid is a bit scary, as whatever malaise going on @ united as been swept away by adnanMANIA, which of course could only be heralded in by the consummate genius of one david F. moyes (here’s a hint, the F stands for a word that ends in -ing) — so yeah, last thing the world needs is for this kid to step up and take his starting spot for the next 10 years and establish the januzaj era, cuz i was kind of hoping that the middling results would become par for the course for united, whose manager has those sensibilites of a midtable club who has those games where you get up 1-0 on the road in ~17′ and then effectively shut down your entire offense and sub into a 4-5-1 because english teams dont win in the ukraine and like, yeah, from that goal on moyes played to not lose the game…. and last week things would have been splendid if that januzaj wasn’t bloody brilliant. no saviours plz!
Hello Walter . Upon second viewing of the game( most times I find myself unable to be objective while rooting for Arsenal ) I thought the referee had a mixed game and the only really contentious decision was the tackle on Wilshere in the penalty box.
Now , if you thought it was a penalty then I don’t have a problem with your judgment of this particular decision . However I seem to remember a similar decision from the Villa game when Koscielny poked the ball away after making contact with Agbonlahor . Taylor gave a penalty and you were outraged at his decision.
The way I see it , you can’t have it both ways and if you thought Koscielny’s tackle was clean then the tackle on Wilshere had to be clean too.
On the flip-side , the refs can’t have it both ways either and there’s a case to be made for anti-Arsenal bias you so strongly advocate in your Referee Reviews.
However you, by holding opposing views on two almost identical incidents( and both in favor of Arsenal) put in question your ability to be without bias while conducting such a review ,thus suggesting to anyone outside of UA that the results of your reviews might be tainted and should be viewed with skepticism .
The way I saw the game, Arsenal were poor in the first half and quite lethargic . Jack Wilshere turned the ball over six times within the first 25 minutes and looked off the pace . The most dangerous tackle of the game was not against Wilshere but in fact by him on Claudio Yacob. To his credit , he turned it around in the second half showing his character.
Like you said, getting one point away at Albion is not a bad result these days and I don’t understand all this negativity. Our players looked sluggish which isn’t all that surprising given their midweek exploits. Getting our injured players back should go a long way in keeping the squad fresh.
Take care.
Walter,
On the condition of the pitch: the Arsenal Player presenters said specifically that one side of one of the goals was in shadow and had been over-watered down; resulting in multiple loss of footings, many, but not all, of Arsenal players; and many, but not all, in the first half. These blokes had it spotted; so there was a factor to our lack of, well, fluidity. It was soaked into the pitch.
“I know it will happen. With refs like Mason and some others (Probert next game maybe?) it will happen. Maybe they will listen then?” – Walter Broeck
Amy Lawrence,
Where are you on this? Cat napping? Cat’s got your tongue? Where’s your journalistic integrity? Guardian Sport’s Dept. got your rent check? Give us a sign Amy. History will not absolve the sports jornos for their stupefactions.
Walter,
Sacrificing Jack Wilshere’s career on the altar of keeping control over the end-product is nothing to these people. No one is as important as their continued control. No one.
May I suggest you guys set up a FB with an eye catching name. Just post your prediction and short summary about the ref. before each match.
They circulate much faster that way.
Or tweeter…
needa catch the attention of people. When you keep giving correct predictions in a high- profile fashion, they will notice.
And there can only be two conclusions
1) you guys are behind the ref so you know what they do
2) they do some crazy things that people can spot and predict
After watching the game for the first 15-20 min…..I was wondering if this game was going to be another Villa. I can understand if ref had a bad game, but then his decisions should be even. BUT why this bias??….
And how come divingyoun get all the fouls and Wilshere not one??….
As for not starting Gnabry…well I think Mr Wenger knew whats coming his way. So decided to go with experienced heads.
Oh, Good job Gunners. We kept working hard and won the point. Hopefully 2 weeks are enough for Ramsey to recover….
Tom
No offense but just wondering if you’re related to Rupert Cook? You sound eerily similar, and also haven’t heard from Rupert in a while and wondering if you might know what’s happened with him.
Tom,
if you think that the tackle from the side was the same as the tackle from behind on Wilshere then there is no point in discussing it.
A tackle from behind is not a foul when you don’t touch the player at all. But otherwise it is always a foul.
Now unless you have seen it differently but the WBA defender had both his legs clamped around the left leg of Wilshere. A tackle that could lead to serious injury by the way and flying in from behind was a tackle that two world cups ago was to be punished with a red card. And don’t tell me he played the ball as that doesn’t matter when you come in flying from behind.
The Koscielny tackle was not from behind as both were running next to each other. Koscielny with one leg tackled and played the ball. His other leg was bend below him and not aimed at the Villa player but by sliding on that knee there was some accidental contact with the foot of Agbonlahor. There was no deliberate attempt to make contact with the striker. If he would have slid in with both legs towards the striker then it would have been a clear and indisputable foul.
So they are not comparable.
And I also notice you missed the tackle on Wilshere early in the second half. When he was to take his shot he was hit by the defender his tackle. The defender didn’t touch the ball but did touch the ankles of Wilshere. Again Koscielny did touch the ball as explained but this time the WBA defender only got the ankles of Wilshere.
That also was worse than the Koscielny tackle in the Villa game.
@Tom, thanks for your write up of the game. Most posts seem to be about the ref’s performance and not the team. I sometimes wonder if anyone on here actually watches the team, instead they seem to note everything the ref does. I’ve read several write ups of the game on other sites and Wilshire had a stinker in the first half, maybe it’s too much smoking, but at least he raised his game and scored the equalizer.
There’s been plenty of bad decisions this season. Last weekend both Manu and Spurs could have had penalties and Vertonghen should have been sent off for scratching. Poor officiating is not something that is peculiar to Arsenal.
To get a draw at a buoyant WBA is a good result. We’re not going to win every game and we won’t always perform brilliantly, no team does. The great news is that Spurs couldn’t take advantage of our draw and their GD is looking considerably poorer.
Shortly after the game on my sports channel in my country and after having shown the spuds-WHU game live they showed some short images of WBA-Arsenal. Showing both goals and one more incident: the not given penalty on Wilshere for the tackle from behind.
The reporters said: surely Arsenal could and should have won the game if the ref had done his job. And then they zoomed in to the face of the presenter and his guest in the studio and they looked in disbelief that there was not given a penalty for Arsenal. And they shook their head in a way showing : how on earth is it possible for a ref to miss that from only a few meters out.
Just read Untold and you know why 😉
Apart from Mason “preferring old school game” allowing “real, male, challenges” (using pundits terminology) we were quite slow today, obviously need wings to stretch things a bit. We are really tin now and need people start coming back soon.
Good thing is even with tin squad (not in meaning pundits like to describe it, but in light of all injuries we have from beginning) we maintain leading position, what tells a lot about quality of squad.
I also see good thing in draw, because self-confidence is good thing, but too much of it, makes you more vulnerable on defeats, and makes you aware of possibility of it. So I believe this was good wake up call. Now just lets keep fingers crossed during international break, and wait injured players to be back.
If this team can maintain top without Walcott, Podolski, Cazorla, Ox… imagine where we can be with them.
What was the difference between Wilshire’s tackle for which he got booked and the tackle on him for which “play on ” was given
Not to mention the punch in the face Yacob administered to Jack in the first half, for good measure after Jack had been hauled down by another defender. Mason was as usual 2 meters away with a clear view, and he did nothing.
Walter, by now this looks like a decent referee review for this match:)
Al. None taken, and yes Rupert and I are identical twins separated at birth and adopted by different parents( hence the different last name). We still keep in touch and often discuss all things Arsenal. He confided in me that he’d grown tired of recent mantra at UA of constant ref bashing when Arsenal don’t win, and never ending “I told you so’s” directed at other fans who dared to criticize the club in the past, when Arsenal do win. So he decided to take sabbatical move to Tahiti and take up painting.
@Tom – LOL 🙂
I thought Tom’s version of the game was pretty accurate. I listened to on 5Live and whilst Alan Green is a poor commentator and a lazy pundit it seemed to me that we were sluggish in the 1st half and better in the 2nd. Jack was out of sorts and presumably got a bit of advice at HT and came out more focused on winning than falling over. I would agree (having seen the incidents) that we should have had at least one penalty but again WBA had a decent shout for one too.
Mason was poor (again) and I circulated the ref review on twitter to a fair few people. I think this is what we should do.
Arsenal need a rest and that was obvious yesterday, hey, we are top of the league and no other top 4 club is playing better than we are.
@admiral awesome
your ‘comment’ is longer than most posts, do you buy books of postcards to send home from holidays?
Walter,
With the international (leg) break upon us, please consider an “illustrated ref review approach” with links to any video you can scare up to demonstrate a small number of game changing non-calls. That will be persuasive and irrefutable; it could arguably kick-start something hugely influential. It is an approach that anyone can replicate and, if repeated as a regular facet of the reviews, bring a new type of scrutinizing pressure on the hives of Riley and unprecedented exposure of the lens-crafting punditry of MOTD and its ilk. These folk thrive from hiding in plain sight. How about stealing back sight with the untold images and giving them a hiding! Please consider it – even 2 game changing or otherwise outrageous links per review. Surely it’s time has come?…
“I circulated the ref review on twitter to a fair few people. I think this is what we should do.”
blacksheep63,
Yes, if fans did this match to match, and the ref reviews contained links to video evidence of significant calls and non-calls, it has great potential to help taking the refshite (whether bent or dimwitted) out of the equation. Respect (ha!), bring it back.
“how on earth is it possible for a ref to miss that from only a few meters out.”
Walter,
Perhaps the visualized ref review could have one or two still photos that (if/when available) show the position of the referee at time of the offending significant call/non-call.
Little correction on my take on the not given penalty for the foul on Wilshere late in the game. The defender took out his standing leg with both his legs around that standing leg to bring him down.
If you really want to see a more blatant case of a foul this is it. A clamping tackle from behind, taking out the standing leg from behind… the more you see it the worse it gets.
“the more you see it the worse it gets”
and so…..?
and so the more amazing it gets that a ref only standing 5 or 6 meter away from it seemed to have missed it. He even didn’t made the negative signal. Just totally and completely ignored it.
A master class in bias.
@Walter, I don’t know if you remember me asking for your opinion on a certain type of challenge some years ago. However, another challenge on Wilshere went unpunished because he got his shot away, and then was caught on his ankle. Again anywhere else on the pitch this would have been a foul & booking.
This phenomena is not restricted to Arsenal (although many are), but why do referee’s consistently allow this last ditch challenge to go unpunished? I really would like your opinion on this as, this is sometimes dangerous, where a defender is out of control of his actions.
I think it’s fair to say you get biased officials in sport. It is unreasonable to suggest otherwise.
The official was biased in that game. Clear as day. To suggest otherwise would make me look as foolish as those who may have attempted to defend the indefensible actions of say an Umpire Hair or Umpire Rana: which is why other sport have to choice but to aid the officials with tech and clear allocations of the laws of the game. To defend the reputation of the sport.
A tackle from behind (not shown on MOTD) is a foul, hence the red cards for such tackles in some international tournament. Theme the rules!
Mason: The Arsenal crowd called him out on that visit from Everton a few seasons ago for his unprofessional conduct (cheating). It’s a fairly transparent observation. There’s no point denying it. It’s undeniable.
Adam,
the why to your question is : I just don’t know.
Nowhere in the laws of the game there is a line that says: dangerous tackles are not allowed unless they happen in the penalty area for a last ditch challenge. A tackle hitting the legs of a player is a foul.
Like you say when a defender shoots the ball forward (mostly seen on the side line) and gets the ball away and then gets caught by the striker his tackle the ref will call the foul and give at least a yellow card.
But somehow many refs let it go when it is a striker having a shot at goal and then getting caught. I have given quite a few of such penalties when I was still being a ref. But many refs back out of such decisions.
Why? You have to look at the personality of the ref I think…
Please can someone provide me with links to penalty shouts during our game.
I cant believe people are trying to convince me that we should have conceeded a penalty by kosienly, and that wilshere one was a perfect inch tackle… Am i losing my mind or are all people stupid around here, please anybody got a link, plus that one u talked about walter in the above comment….please
Please can someone provide me with links to penalty shouts during our game.
I cant believe people are trying to convince me that we should have conceeded a penalty by kosienly, and that wilshere one was a perfect inch tackle… Am i losing my mind or are all people stupid around here, please anybody got a link, plus that one u talked about walter in the above comment….please please
MOTD: What a joke.
They put KOS’s tackle for the pen against Villa, litteraly under the microscope in a vane attempt to prove it WAS a pen.
We have a similar call yeaterday that was clearly more of a pen than that was(from behind, not from the side) and it’s not even shown.
Smith, yes ex Arsenal Smith, judges the foul on Jack “a good tackle” and yet thinks we was lucky not to conceed a pen in the last minute because a WBA player backs into Kos.
And of course again wilshire is kicked from beggining to end with little or no protection, but woe betide he ever gives it back.
Flamini booked for 1st foul. Well I suppose that was always going to happen. The sad thing is you KNOW it’s going to happen before the game starts, not the getting booked, but the fact it is so often for his FIRST foul.
Overall we didn’t play well enough to win and WBA are a decent side so I dont really have an issue with the draw as I think it was a fair result.
It’s the F****ing media again.
Another game when we quite clearly should of had at least one pen yet they make more of a simple coming together in our box.
It’s this whole agenda of NEVER EVER allowing Arsenal to ever look hard done by, when they clearly have, whilst conversly making a mountain out of anything they percieve as going our way.
As I have said so many times it’s all about creating an atmosphere where by a Ref knows no matter how bad a call he makes against us he will not be critisised.
I think the worrying thing about this is less the bias (which is frustrating in itself), but the amount of stuff Mason was willing to let go (after booking Flamini in the 22nd minute of course).
Not stopping play when Wishere had a head injury (eyes were there last time I looked) and waving on a challenge that is usually an automatic card because it is potentially dangerous is just unacceptable.
@Finsbury — do you mean the 10-11 season Saha offside goal? The upside on that one was that the guys running the big screens either thought the goal was OK (or could see no way of not showing a goal replay) so showed it to the crowd.
I was in block 13/14 that night (cannot remember exactly), and you could see it was obviously not a goal there. Putting it on the big screen meant the whole crowd saw it, and hence the reaction (and why they normally do not show replays of contentious decisions on the screens).
@Yassin, if you are an Arsenal member, the whole game went up on the .com this morning. There is a perfect from behind replay of the second Wilshere shout (Mulumbu’s tackle) that just shows that Walter described it perfectly, and the front view shows just how close Mason was.
There isn’t as good a view of the 46th minute one, as no one deemed it worthy of much of a replay
@ Adam, On your question to Walter “Why”.
I think its all got to do with the position. The penalty box. If the ref gets it wrong, then his -ve influence on the game increases exponentially as the free kick taken (penalty) will, 99% of time, be a goal.
If it happens out side the box, even it the ref gets it wrong, the influence remains more or less the same…..
In Wilsher/Mulumbu (was it) case, even if the ref was just behind the scene, it is impossible for him to say that the player attacking from behind got the ball. It looked sure shot penalty and even the replay showed so (though a few claim it wasnt…remember Koscielny). Any where else on the pitch it would have been a free kick.
This is where I think video reference can be helpful……..
Ok, I am going to stick my my neck out on this one. I really thing that Jack should calm down. We know he is coming back from injury and that he wants to get into the team and impress the Boss and all that. We all know that he is a player who will make the team when fit but when anyone coming back from injury should play it simple, because we all know that your timings all over the place and the more you try to be clever, the more mistakes one makes. Now playing out of postion does not help so it make more sense not to take risk. His defence postion was awfull as there was too much space between him & Gibbs. This again is due to him playing out on the left. I would have thought that AW would bring on Serge for the last 10 / 15 mins as that would force WBA to be pushed back. As for the tackles, as far as I was aware, ANY tackle from behind was an automatic red card. I guess I am wrong. But to be fair I think WBA played very well and it was great game to watch. On the ref front, we all know there is nothing much to add.
A little bit off topic but had to post it here since im not sure everyone knows. I clicked on Dogface`s twitter profile and saw that his wife passed away.. Thoughts go out to you Dogface…My deepest condolences
@Dogface: Please accept my heart felt condolences.
Rufusstan @ 12.33
Good memory, yup it was the offside Saha goal after a negligible deflection of Kosser that was played back on the big screens which further raised the crowds ire against the ref during that game.
At the end of the day we are all just normal people, and if we see rubbish we will recognise it for the rubbish that it is. Which explains why TV coverage of football here seems to be as poor as it is in Italy.
There was a close offside call on Giroud in this last game as well, very close. But we didn’t get a reply. So, Mason gets the benefit of the doubt on that one 😉
Arsenal cam play better then they did on the day (Yesterday!)*.
And it’s fair to say the same for the official in the middle :)(I’m trying to be generous here). Can’t see why the righteously offended above (the usuals!) would have a problem with people wanting better officials. Odd behaviour.
*With some more of the squad back, they will!
reply < replay
I do think we could of played better, but all the same I think we were robbed of two points.
The surprising thing about the little protection Jack got from the ref is that we are now heading into crucial England qualifiers. Wilshere could of been seriously injured by the tackles allowed and the ref should of shouldered the blame for the dangerous play.
We remain on top thanks in part to Ravel ‘gooner’ Morrison.
Strange the press is focusing on smoking rather than the team’s character, we didn’t capitulate when we went behind and proved that this team is not soft or spineless. Or any of the other labels levied at Arsene Wenger teams over the recent years. This team has grit and determination to turn things around even when things are not going for them.
Oh fuck Mahdain…. this is so sad news. OMG… I feel bad… I knew a bit about it…OMG…I’m shocked even though I didn’t know her in person.
this puts all this shit in another perspective…
@Dogface
Deepest condolences.
@Walter i was shocked by it too when i saw it today. I knew something had to be wrong with him since its so unlike of him to not to tweet at all during the game. Thoughts go to him and his family
My deepest sympathies to Dogface and family.
Can I add my sincere condolences to our friend Dogface and family.
Dogface,
May her soul rest in peace. My condolences too!
My condolences Dogface. I wish you and your family the best.
My condolences to you and your family, DogFace.
Best wishes to you and yours Dogface
Came back to see how the thread had evolved and….
Fuck thats horrible.
Condolences to Dogface and all their family.
@Walter — Absolutely about the sense of perspective. I throw out the old Bill Shankley quote all the time, but it SO isn’t true.
My Condolences!
May you always cherish her, forever.
Christ this is boring..where’s Brickfields
Thoughts to you Dogface. Thank you for your posts and my deepest condolences. A faithful reader.
Just read about the passing of Dogface’s wife here and I wish to add my heartfelt condolences to him and his family .