ARSENAL vs. WEST HAM UNITED ref review

58 Replies to “ARSENAL vs. WEST HAM UNITED ref review”

1. Let me point out that this has nothing to do with how both teams played. This has all to do with just how the ref played his game. And as predicted and expected it was the usual rubbish performance.

   Once the site is back to normal we will try to add more (yes even more) info and explanation if needed

2. the Ramsey foul in 42 minutes in the 1st half. if the referee opines that it is dangerous does that automatically put a full stop to it? Unless the ref comes out and explains his decisions shall we ever know what went through his mind?

3. First of all a great thanks to Walter for allowing me to help Untold Arsenal 😀 . Whatever work I have done is merely reporting and analyzing what the referee and his assistants are doing/not-doing correctly/incorrectly according to the laws of the game. Some of you might ask are you a ref yourself? My answer is no I am not a ref, I am just a 22-year old Arsenal fan, feeling frustrated and helpless watching our dear club being picked apart by the Referees in every form of competition we play for the past 7 years (as early as I started watching the Arsenal). And do due these biased referees now I remember every single one of their names and faces just like any fan would do for a football player. 😛

   In August 2013 after “THAT” game against Aston Villa in the opening match of the season I saw one of the worst refereeing performances I have ever seen by a slightly unknown referee at that time “Anthony Taylor”. Just a few days after that match I came across Untold Arsenal and it caught my interest for 2 main reasons.

   1. Being one of the only few Arsenal related websites that supported the club, the players and the manager no matter we win/lose/draw.
   2. Being the only website that raised the voice and concern for utterly poor standard of refereeing and corruption among referee associations.

   And since then I have been reading Untold Arsenal regularly, paying attention to how Walter and Andrew previewed and reviewed the refereeing performance and Tony indicating and pointing out the types of Match Fixing that can happen or is happening 😀 So to sum it up Untold Arsenal really inspired me to conduct such reports.

4. @Samrat Jha

   Samrat, I understand what you mean but you see every decision made by the referee is based on his judgement not just the decision in the 42:00 minute.

   Let me give you an example. In the 01:46 Minute even though Ozil was clearly fouled by Noble, the Ref judged it to be not a foul which wrong considering that it clearly fulfilled the needs and requirement to be called a foul.

   Regarding the Ramsey bicycle kick incident, Oxford moved his head away safely from the bicycle kick the Ramsey made cleanly. Therefore the play should have carried on because Ramsey got the ball first and Oxford who was coming to get the ball moved away just as he saw him doing the bicycle kick. Also look at this

   http://www.fifa.com/mm/Document/FootballDevelopment/Refereeing/02/36/01/11/LawsofthegamewebEN_Neutral.pdf
   LAW 12 PAGE:123 Playing in a dangerous manner
   “If there is physical contact, the action becomes an offence punishable
   with a direct free kick or penalty kick.”

   Look at this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4DMAgbOCuw
   Vela bicycle kicked cleanly but the defender was coming with his head but moved it away just as he saw that happen. The ref here gave allowed even though it was similar to the Ramsey’s bicycle kick

5. Fair, however, this ref is just a bad omen for us.

6. Many thanks to Usama and Walter.Really impressive lads- such detail.THANK YOU!!

7. @Samrat Jha

   Samrat, I understand what you mean but you see every decision made by the referee is based on his judgement not just the decision in the 42:00 minute.

   Let me give you an example. In the 01:46 Minute even though Ozil was clearly fouled by Noble, the Ref judged it to be not a foul which wrong considering that it clearly fulfilled the needs and requirement to be called a foul.

   Regarding the Ramsey bicycle kick incident, Oxford moved his head away safely from the bicycle kick the Ramsey made cleanly. Therefore the play should have carried on because Ramsey got the ball first and Oxford who was coming to get the ball moved away just as he saw him doing the bicycle kick. Also look at this

   http://www.fifa.com/mm/Document/FootballDevelopment/Refereeing/02/36/01/11/LawsofthegamewebEN_Neutral.pdf
   LAW 12 PAGE:123 Playing in a dangerous manner
   “If there is physical contact, the action becomes an offence punishable
   with a direct free kick or penalty kick.”

   Look at this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4DMAgbOCuw
   Vela bicycle kicked cleanly but the defender was coming with his head but moved it away just as he saw that happen. The ref here gave allowed even though it was similar to the Ramsey’s bicycle kick

8. Well done. The first 2 yellow cards should have been Red cards in my opinion. I was at the game & both those fouls appeared to be tackles of the player with no intention to play the ball. The Noble fouls were ignored or contrary following long chats with the referee. I am positive that there is some corrupt practice going on with the FA, PGMO & some media.

9. Brilliant review system.
   We got what we can expect from this ref.
   we hear the likes of Dogger Collymore waxing lyrical on how West Ham beat the fancy dans with proper British physical play, when the players who did the damage were foreign, and the ref certainly helped win it for them judging by this. Yet not a mention in the media, just a collective wankfest.
   We may have been to a large extent the authors of our own misfortune, but this standard of refereeing is unacceptable. This ref was clever, got his three yellows against them early then went about his true business.
   We a
   Ways seem to get this at the start of the season, then things seem to improve a little bit in the second half. Wonder why that is?

10. Guess OT will take a while for Atkinson to forgive us for beating a team he seems to have some interest in ….to win the Community Shield.
    Hope he is not this bad the next eight times we face him this season

11. What I appreciate more with this review is the addition of references to the FIFA law itself. That will hopefully shut some sympathetic idiots up who always say we are cry babies here.

    Usama and Walter, great job.

12. This review fully confirms my view of Atkinson’s biased performance, which I expressed in my post in response to the match report.

    The fact that he actually issued yellow cards to our opponents does not alter this. As the review confirms, WHU might (should) have finished with 9 men and the free kick leading to the first goal should not have been given.

13. It was a typical Atkinson performance. Every thing he could call against Arsenal he did (and even when he couldn’t do it he still did it).
    The foul he gave from which WH scored was a typical such thing. At no point the foot of Ramsey was in the direction of the WH player who came in jumping from behind Ramsey and still more than a leg length away from Ramsey his foot.
    It was typical Atkinson doing what he could to give WH some invented free kicks as I think we predicted in our preview before the match.

14. The fact we won against his favourite team a week before might have been on his mind….

15. Strangely the referee to officiate the first big game of the season Man City vs. Chelsea at the Etihad is none other than Mr. Atkinson. My thinking is that this is how will help Chelsea:

    1. If match stays 0-0 till the last 20mins he might start to favor Chelsea while defending, allowing them to foul and counter attack.

    2. If City take the lead he might start to book City players and give phantom fouls against them, making them scared to tackle

    3. If Chelsea take the lead, then it will be a piece of cake for him 😀

16. Have a feeling Chelsea will need more help this season than the last, that’s where this ref might come into play.
    Do wonder the effect on our players when they are up against something like this…..have seen the likes of Arshavin against Webb/Utd at OT and Sagna against Dean/Spurs give the refs the fuck you look letting them know these players are onto their agenda….and they are fighting back, but it must be demoralising in some cases.
    A shame we see this ref so often.

17. Yes its all due to the ref. boo hoo. Give it a rest with your pathetic whining excuses.

    Grow up you sad little babies

18. Dext, we all thank you for your insight and reasoned arguments.

19. Some things never change. To be honest, Atkinson makes me sick, literally (I didn’t even bother to watch the second half), I can’t stand the sight of him.

    Thank you Walter and Usama, and keep up the good work.

20. Yup, some things never change, like Arsenal getting ripped off and the existence of brain-dead fools like Dex. The sad thing is, in other games, the two early yellows would not even have been given. Sadder still is the fact we couldn’t take advantage of those yellows.

21. Dex, whatever the reasons for the defeat, and yes, myself and others on here have criticised the teams performance in the day, but going back to this article, do you look at this refereeing report and find the standard of the referees performance acceptable? Have you read previous reviews on this guy refereeing Arsenal for context….and his performance when officiating other teams? Do you think our referees perfect and function without weakness or bias? Do you agree with the specific items in this review….if not, please challenge? Can we have a more intelligent analysis based on considerable research put into this articles subject matter to add validity to your post which without backup must be rendered as, let’s face it, pretty meaningless.

22. Mandy Dodd
    Collymore seems to like his physical “play”. Ulrika Jonsson may reveal more on that.

    //
    I really do not think Chelsea will be helped this season, in fact it looks to me like the agenda has changed. The agenda seems to be about maintaining the PL to be what they want it to be instead of just letting it be. Mind you the mindset that wants to control weather would surely want to control football too.

    I suspect certain teams are wanted back into the PL and they will try to keep these teams up this season at the cost of ruining football.

    With every season that passes i get a stronger sense that football is evolving into a well thought out “entertainment” package, leaving no room for unwanted and non-planned events.

    It is really good that this ref report has gone from strength to strength, and really highlights their influences on the game.

    What we have seen over the years, is that no matter how Arsenal plays, there is ALWAYS some problem with the refs and how they do their job. This alone would be enough for any organisation to start running around to sort it out and prove that refs are trustworthy at their job, but all we get is no action and the talk of football having great and dependable refs.

    Keep on keeping on.

23. I do think the identity of who the ref in question on any given day is inhibits the players’ performances. As Mandy already pointed out, some of our players have given refs the fuck you look and they will undoubtedly have more knowledge about which refs shaft them more (the collective groans that go up on Untold when certain refs are mentioned proves even us fans know who the dodgy refs are, and if mention of such refs is enough to make us sweat what about the players themselves who would have had close contact with the ref and been told to zip it countless times by said ref after legitimate complaints of illegal tackling, unpunished thuggery, etc?). This definitely has an impact on the players; they’ll be worrying about their physical wellbeing (we see many times comments here say something to the effect that with so and so as ref in our upcoming match just wish we finish the game with no injuries – no doubt the players will be hoping they are just able to finish the match in one piece too – pretty sure some players will approach the match with this mind set). Anxiety is never good for performance, whatever kind of performance it may be 🙂 Players are human too, and not robots.

    One needs to be physically and mentally well prepared when approaching any contest, and it’s never a good thing psychologically to be worrying about the ref. Quite a few clubs have engaged psychologists to help their players for different reasons, showing that being prepared mentally is just as important. Approaching a match with concerns about officiating does make the player take an eye off the game (distracted) as they’ll be ‘monitoring’ the ref, affecting their concentration levels.

    I agree with Crovax that we didn’t seem to take full advantage of the early yellows. But as demonstrated by this ref review some of those yellows should have been, or led to, reds, which didn’t happen, not helping in reducing any anxiety our players might have had. This is going to be a big barrier for us to overcome; you can clearly see none of our players will ever display any of the arrogance we see in sides such as Liverpool, Utd, etc, coz they know any slightest mistake and they get punished. Arrogance, while overall not a very good thing, is an important ingredient for success. And as long as there is no discernible change in the way our game is handled by the pgmob and the equally complicit FA, this will be a problem for us.

24. Great work , guys ,well done . Truly appreciated .

25. good report, like the new format

26. Hi Walter

    Please put the final results and summary in table format.. Its much easier to compare and understand..

    Thanks

27. Wow, that’s some incredible analysis. Would like to say thanks first of all but there’s always a but as I also did some research and found it interesting when I looked at our opening day results, and what I found was, coincidentally or not, since we began our long pre-season tours our results on the opening day have been dramatically worse. We cannot, of course, put that down solely, or even conclusively- partly due to these tours as there could be numerous reasons, such as lack of transfer signings, poor preparation etc. What is clear is that we have only won our opening match once after returning from our adventures in the Far East. Here are a look at the results;

    Without Pre-season tours:
    2004 Everton 1-4 Arsenal
    2005 Arsenal 2-0 Newcastle United
    2006 Arsenal 1-1 Aston Villa
    2007 Arsenal 2-1 Fulham
    2008 Arsenal 1-0 West Bromwich Albion
    2009 Everton 1-6 Arsenal
    2010 Liverpool 1-1 Arsenal

    After Pre-season tours:
    2011 Newcastle 0-0 Arsenal
    2012 Arsenal 0-0 Sunderland
    2013 Arsenal 1-3 Aston Villa
    2014 Arsenal 2-1 Crystal Palace
    2015 Arsenal 0-2 West Ham

    Therefore, when you also factor in the long held idea that we do not perform well under increased pressure and expectation (think Monaco!!) You could say that the result Sunday was somewhat predictable…

28. Very true about Ulrike Para. Dogger cites mental illness as being behind that incident, of course anyone suffering from genuine mental illness deserves sympathy, but picking on someone smaller and weaker , and from what I have heard, not for the first time can be construed as something else.
    Often wonder why this unpleasant individual is always heard on various media platforms…..not sure what he brings, oh…wait…..he absolutely detests Arsenal!!!
    On another note, good to see the media finally laying into Mourinho over their doctor, when an ego gets out of control, there can be unforeseen consequences if not bought back in check and quickly. The owner will not want headlines like that.

29. @Mandy, It is also no surprise that the first person who tipped Arsenal to win the League was Mourinho (I think). He said that because it’s truly a win-win for him. If Arsenal win the League, he can say “see I was right, my team didn’t have the investment needed to compete against Arsene Wenger and his millions spent” and if Arsenal fail to win the league he can say “see, Arsene is a specialist in failure.”

    I suspect this is the exact same reason why the haters in the press (Stewrat Robson tipped Arsenal to win the title) are repeating Mourinho. Consciously or unconsciously they know that saying this is Arsenal’s title to lose is a position with no drawbacks.

30. This is my issue, we lose a game to West­ Ham, and too many fans blame it on lack­ of signings. We lost a game on the pitc­h against inferior rivals, yet somehow ­it becomes an ownership and spending iss­ue. If you are seriously blaming anythin­g else other than Wengers tactics for th­e loss, then you’re just trying to ratio­nalize Wenger job performance. It’s simi­lar to how some fans will say we ‘have n­o right’ to compete with Chelsea and Ci­ty. Even though among our players are Ra­msey, Sanchez, Ozil, Cazorla, Kosicleny,­ Cech, Chamberlain, Walcott and the list­ goes on. Some fans seem to define every­thing to make it beneficial to Wenger. I­.e., If Wenger can’t compete for the ti­tle with these players, then the players­ must not be good enough. Imagine if Wen­ger was a race car driver and had a hoot­ed up Ferrari, yet still could never fin­ish first – the apologist would say to t­hemselves, ‘well obviously the Ferrari i­sn’t fast enough’. These are all these ­excuses and just dont cut it anymore. Yo­u can’t say the players aren’t good enou­gh, because if we had an auction, they w­ould all end up at Europe’s elite. Wenge­r cannot go this season without a genuin­e title challenge. He cannot remain as ­Arsenal manager, if he fails to make it ­happen this season. The idea that we are­n’t good enough, is an inferiority compl­ex and a by-product of the ‘4th is a tro­phy’ mentality. We are good enough, and ­any failure to seriously compete for the­ title, will fall on Wenger. I dont wan­t to hear any excuses.

31. “I dont want to hear any excuses”, who are you the great authority from beyond?

32. Ignoring the Football it was a partisan transparent and unbalanced performance from the PGMOB official.

    The real give away is the non-yellow for the pull back on Koscielny.
    Though the foul call against Denbuchy for a clean technique was equally predictable from this offical.

    Hopelessly biased and anyone choosing to ignore the performance of this bungler is simply kidding themselves.

    This PGMOB representative is without doubt and with reference to a record (that would not be an opinion) stretching back seasons clearly and obviously not fit to referee.

    I expect we’ll get him at AFC about four or five times this season. Apprentice Taylor the same. Others not so much. It is, what it is.

    Riley’s crows do not sing from the same hymn book as our beloved Dickie Bird or other much admired officials. The Gospel of Scudamore has a different tune.

33. Laen, Wenger can do exactly what the terms of his contract state and the Arsenal board wish.
    Interesting motor racing analogy…..fortunately the board and the majority of fans realise that for years, Wenger was competing with ferraris on a Skoda budget. He maybe didn’t quite catch the Ferraris during those years, though he did come a lot closer than history currently judges,but was always able to stay ahead of the Porsches.
    If Arsenal can just now compete with those who have had Ferraris for the last few years or longer, that is down to where Wenger has kept us, fortunately the board recognise that.
    Tactics…..how do you stay in the top four on a negative spend over years with some degree of tactical acumen? Wenger doesn’t do tactics has to be the laziest cliche out there, with of course considerable opposition.
    The only teams in this league consistently more successful over the last decade have been those with vastly superior resources to Wenger. The rest…..well ….mind the gap…..
    As Jamie says, not everyone has been saying we are a cert for the title, and I would closely look at the agenda of those who have stated such lofty aims

34. Laen

    It sounds the reasonable thing for you to do ,then, is to reserve your judgement till the end of the season.

    You believe we now have a squad to do it (which, those players you like and think are good enough to win the league, was mostly put together during years when we had much less money than rivals- that’s undeniable), and you surely know enough to know it would be mad to judge a team on their first game.

    I’m in the same boat, in so far as I see a squad that really look capable of fighting for the league this year, so if it were to pan out that we don’t, among all the disappointment of that would be the simple fact I was wrong in my prediction for the season.

    In that unpleasant version of the future I’d be asking all sorts of things, including whether the squad had some big weaknesses I didn’t perceive, and whether the manager had used that squad well.

    But why do it now? It can’t be because one game, or even five or ten games allow you to know exactly how a season will go; and it can’t be because negativity from fans is good for a team, i.e help players to perform well.

    You like logic (and have more aptitude for it than most fans who seriously dislike Wenger), so the only logical justification for adding to negativity which is not in the immediate interests of the team and which harms their chances in the short-term, is if you are by now utterly convinced Wenger should leave as soon as possible and are doing your own tiny bit towards trying to make this happen.

    That’s always been the startling thing about booing in the stadium and the like- those people are saying ‘I love this club so much and am so upset when we don’t get the result I want… that I’m going to behave in a way which reduces our immediate chances of getting the sort of results I want’.

    Illogical, unless you are so sure the man in charge is bad for the club that you are willing to sacrifice something in the short term to try get him out of there.

    Imagine how much less stressful things would be, for you, me, and everyone else, including the team, if all agreed that (a) we should be fighting for the league this year and (b) in football it takes time until it becomes clear whether we will or not and, finally, (c) we’ll try support the team in the manner that gives them the best chance of success until then.

    If everyone was in on that pact, Sunday would have been a disappointment, the stadium would have roared the team on in a way that encourages them and makes things a bit less tense for the players; afterwards we would all have absorbed the blow of that poor performance and defeat and consoled ourselves with the knowledge the season is long. Then back, after suitable minor adjustments, commensurate with one bad game, to our thoughts on the team and the season, to hoping and getting behind the team. That would be rational, and less painful mentally for all concerned.

35. Rich – Some consensus that have been reached by fans on this forum, and in the media, particular by Danny Murphy. One, attacking midfielders on the wing makes our play to narrow. Two, due to the lack of width in midfield, it falls on the wingbacks to provide the width by getting forward in wide positions, then on occasions we turn the ball over, the other teams striker fills that vacant space left by the advanced wingback, forcing Kos or Mertesacker to go with him – completely shattering any cohesiveness in the backline.

    So basically, we are playing a brand of football that makes it harder to score, and leaves us unorganized and vulnerable to the counter (a common weakness of ours, no doubt in part to such tactics). The worst thing is, us fans know it, former players know it, and you can be sure every manager knows it. What I dont understand, is we had stopped doing this after we beat City away 2-0 last season, and had an amazing run of results and conceded only 13 goals in the last 19 matches.

    Then lo and behold, we revert back to old ways, and lose 2-0 at home to West Ham. Its not a coincidence. To say we lost on Sunday because of Wenger’s ineptitude is exactly right. How we go this season, will depend on whether Wenger picks up the obvious. If he does, I believe we can fight for the title. But if what Danny Murphy said on Sky flies over Wenger’s head – we will get more of these results making it impossible to get over 85 points.

    Mind you, I dont think Wenger is unaware, I just think he might be to arrogant to abandon his philosophy. He should tread carefully though, as its well documented Arsenal fans wont put up with any rubbish. We often get criticized for being fickle. However, I think we just know when we are being f’ed with. Fixing what happened on Sunday is as simple as making some personnel changes.

36. Rich, thanks for the reply. A lot of fan­s keep going on about how it’s only the fi­rst game. Now this is something you woul­d expect from a little kid, and not from­ a fan with a thorough understanding of ­the small margins than entail winning t­he premier league. A home game against W­est Ham should be 3 points the board.

    Every team who wins the league will like­ly lose no more than 5 league games – an­d we give up a loss at home to West Ham!­ It makes our margins for error even sma­ller, and now we need to make up those ­3 points at either Stamford Bridge or Ol­d Trafford. We are going to lose games t­his season, every team will. So to give up a loss in a home game against West Ha­m is a big deal.

    We have 10 games to go against Man City,­ Liverpool, Chelsea and Man United and T­ottenham, plus tough away games to Stoke­, Swansea, Everton and Newcastle. These ­are the games when losses and dropped p­oints can occur, and it’s also the reaso­n home games against the likes of West H­am need to be wins.

    You can’t win the league in the first 6 ­weeks, but you can certainly lose it. Aw­ay to Palace this week, then a home game­ to Liverpool, now if we play as flat as­ we did against West Ham, we could be z­ero wins from the first 3 games and be b­etween 7-9 points of the pace. You reall­y have no idea how quickly the premier l­eague can get away from you. The season ­started last week, and we are still in t­he blocks.

37. “Now this is something you woul­d expect from a little kid, and not from­ a fan with a thorough understanding of ­the small margins than entail winning t­he premier league.”

    Again posing as the authority from beyond.Good bet though.a) if youre wrong then who cares? b) if youre right then out trots “I told you so”.

    “A home game against W­est Ham should be 3 points the board”
    says who?General Rawlinson and the Somme day 1 plan?

38. Jamie
    Just out of curiosity, were both goals scored by West ham a result of our wingbacks being in too advanced positions, leaving our center backs with little cover? Correct me if I’m wrong but the impression I get from your post is we had found a cure for this malaise since City, but for some (unfathomable) reason we inexplicably reverted back to this for the w/ham game, costing us dearly.

39. That’s the solution, then: Make Danny Murphy our manager.

    On another current topic, the Chelsea doctor must have been unaware that Hazard was feigning injury, as part of Mourinho’s organised cheating routine.

40. That’d be the same Danny Murphy who was lauding Falcao as a “fantastic signing”.

    Ladies and gentleman, m’luds, ladies and Special Agents (who have more power in the Game and media when compared to most clubs), who can question such sincere non-commission derived buffoonery?

41. Laen

    I have a pretty good idea how quickly the league can get away from you. It would be hard to follow football for any length of time and not pick that up. All the calculations you mention are ones I couldn’t stop myself making if I wanted to. Hence I was utterly miserable on Sunday.

    Maybe I underplayed it slightly, but my worry, and the implications of the defeat, were meant to be covered by- ‘afterwards we would all have absorbed the blow of that poor performance and defeat’- and ,in more detail, by – ‘after suitable minor adjustments, commensurate with one bad game, to our thoughts on the team and the season,…’

    I know where we stand. My whole argument is that you react to what one defeat means, or two defeats, or three, in an appropriate manner, should that happen. So if it does happen, that we have some terrible start that leaves us 7-9 points adrift early on, I’ll feel the great gloom of that when it does happen.

    Until then,though, I’ll fight against the parts of my nature that so readily throw up scenarios of doom and gloom. Not easy for me, because that’s probably the bleeding dominant part of my nature. I do that because it seems the right thing to do.

    You talk about not freaking out over one loss as something you’d expect from ‘a little kid’, but I’d say the thing more characteristic of a kid is not to have any control over your fears.

    A kid, on hearing ‘if such and such happens, then THIS will happen’ will likely get upset as though they’ve just heard it is ‘going to happen’, or even ‘already has’ happened. An adult should go and try think through the probability of it, and, if worked up, manage to calm themselves, or not.

    It’s a bit like if you found out a quarter of staff at your workplace were to be sacked : if you’re good at your job and well-respected, you feel the fear but tell yourself you should be ok; if you’re a lousy worker who is very unpopular with your boss, and therefore know that you’re guaranteed for the chop, then you go right ahead and feel exactly like someone who has just lost your job. In effect, you already have, and all that’s left is confirmation.

    For me, you’re reacting as though we’re just waiting for the confirmation that we are 7-9 points behind already and therefore already all but out of any title race. I say we’re not, that instead we’ve dropped three important points, and have difficult games ahead.

    I have the unease of a person who figured, depending on away form, we could drop points in 2-5 home games this year, who knows we lost that first game, and who knows that makes it four of the last five times at home we have dropped points .

    So, worried indeed, but not freaking out yet.

42. Jamie, I saw and liked that piece by Danny Murphy. It was informative stuff, and seemed a pretty good explanation of what I’d just witnessed but not been in the best shape to make total sense of at the time.

    But here’s the thing, you use Murphy and his analysis as your main authority to prove Wenger’s ineptiitude on the day, when the tone of the man himself, Murphy, is completely different.

    If Murphy’s diagnosis of what happened is spot on, why have you ignored his wider conclusion?

    The final paragraph header is ‘Gunners Should Not be Too Disheartened By Defeat :

    “You often see some odd results on the opening weekend when the top teams put in some below average performances for various reasons.
    What happened to Arsenal on Sunday does not mean that playing that way, with players coming in off the wings, will not work for them because it definitely will.
    Part of the reason West Ham kept them out was that they defended brilliantly

    Ultimately, it was failing to react to what West Ham were doing defensively that cost Arsenal – but normally that would probably mean them drawing 0-0.

    Unfortunately for the Gunners, they ended up losing because their new goalkeeper Petr Cech had an afternoon to forget.
    Cech was at fault for both goals but that does not change the fact that he is a terrific keeper who will save them many more times than he loses them points in the future..”

    Murphy’s analysis was good. All of it.

43. Rich I agree with what you are saying but surely we are favourites with City and Chelsea to win the league, everything points to that. Back to back FA cup wins, haven’t sold any stars that we didnt want to sell, have spent big in last 2 windows and a settled squad lets not forget adding a world-class keeper to the squad. And if you believe like others that we have a top manager who is tactically more superior to most others then we should surely be considered one of if not the favourite for the title?

    Wenger hasn’t not had money to spend, im not saying he had loads but he wasnt as poor as lots like to make out, not sure but wasn’t his spend in teh ‘austerity period’ something like 320million?? he did buy absolute dross in that period and he ignored positions that needed filling. we have been crucified so many times due to his tactics or lack of them. We have been very fortunate to finish in top 4, sometimes we have got lucky with dodgy lasagne and unlucky with injuries. For me Wenger can get getting yearly extensions on his contract but only if the team is moving forward each season, if its not then there can be no excuses. as it stands the only thing at this moment in time that can hold us back is wenger, you only have to look at the tactics and team selection deployed last sunday! Injuries are not a concern and we have money to buy the right players, we already posses worldclass players, elite players and a good backup for almost every position bar a couple.

44. Please do not be dishonest.

    Gazprom-up in-Fulham have several players on the grit books signed for +£25M, a couple of dozen maybe for +£15M

    AFC have four. 4.

    No need to even mention the team from The United Provinces of the A.E, in Manchester, in the United Kingdom.

    Not mentioning the the easily observable antics of the discredited PGMOB, the declration that AFC are equivalent to a Petro-Club can be observed to be a statement that should be ignored.

45. The widely accepted and understood reason why AFC are close to the petro clubs is a reason the AAA appear to have some cognotive dissonance with 🙂

46. The deafening sound of silence –
    http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2015/08/11

47. And logic (?) from the mouth of babes ….
    http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2015/08/08

48. Things are changing. Once , not too long ago, we were going to lose our top four spot …we haven’t yet…..then, they said we would never again win a trophy under Wenger …..that little claim backfired somewhat…….now they say we have to win the title or ECL and be seen to be challenging every single minute of every single day, blips will not be tolerated . Progress of sorts I guess.
    Of course Wenger never guaranteed the title, recognising what we are up against, he just said the team would do their utmost.
    Should it be forgotten what he is up against, there are the oilers…..and other things. The article below is going back a few years but worth a read. A few striking issues, firstly, I always thought Scudamore had a Manc thing going, it seems his patronage may be changeable. Secondly, the point, if this is to be believed, Utd sent their lawyer to ensure their fixtures were compiled fairly. Thirdly, the PGMOL do not report to our national organisation, the FA, tthey only report to the EPL, of course headed up by Scudamore. Quite staggering really. Finally, you will not be surprised to learn Arsenal come off worst in the issues described in this article, the author BTW is not an Arsenal supporter. Maybe , like Utd, Arsenal should be sending lawyers in
    http://footballisfixed.blogspot.co.uk/2009/01/is-fixture-list-fixed_10.html

49. OOOOOPs! just noticed a weakness in our squad!!!

    We do not have replacement AAA’s the few that have surfaced only want to spend some fcuking money. The Wenger out ones don’t have backup. That’s a terrible bit of planning by our management.
    There you go SAMMYANYBODYASSIN. Respond to that.

50. The Debuchy tackle at 26:29

    I don’t carefully read the Laws of the Game every year. I suspect Walter does. I am not impressed with what the IFAB did with offsides, it is a horrible mess.

    I believe the intent of the game, is that the only allowed body contact is shoulder to shoulder with the ball within playing distance of both players. And I believe another intent of the game, is that the only “thing” that can legally trip a player, is the ball.

    In order for the ball to trip a player (most of the the time), a defending player needs to stop the ball moving, so that when the attacking player next contacts the ball, the ball trips the attacking player.

    What has happened, is that referees allow the incidental contact. Which has grown into such things as trailing leg at knee height, grabbing uniforms, elbows to the face, punching players in the kidney and others.

    I do not believe the IFAB has ever allowed incidental contact, I could be wrong. Contact beyond shoulder to shoulder that is allowed, is therefore a fault of the referee.

    I think the almost universal trying to beat the system incident on this, is clutching and grabbing uniforms.

    In many ways, this clutching and grabbing is expected, the hands are “free” and do come into contact with other players.

    Maybe an “experiment” can be done. All players report to the referee, who requires all players to have short fingernails. In the run-up to the game starting, the referee pours a small amount of “magic liquid” to each player’s hands and observes them rub this liquid properly in to the hands. As an initial guess, I will suggest the magic liquid is a mixture of coconut oil, lanolin and a silicone oil with a very high lubricity. In the event of substitutions, substitutes also get the magic liquid before entering the field of play. If players get injured, no towel can be used to wipe the players hands (reapplication necessary). If players are seen to be trying to get soil on their hands, they should have their hands cleaned of any soil and more magic liquid applied.

    That’s the annoying part. On the flip side, all players uniforms are to be composed of materials for which this silicone oil has an exceedingly small friction coefficient.

    The result is, that no player can develop any force in grabbing a uniform, except for things like grabbing the neckline, the arm band, waistline, etc.

    Other people have talked about clubs adopting “tear-away” uniforms, which will be very similar.

    The idea being to make the clutching and grabbing ineffective.

    Something to think about.

51. How does one know if they’re good at their job and, as a result, safe? Is it from past positive feedback, meticulous preparation and hard work? Or from a self-inflated ego and perspective of oneself? I’ll be honest – I was sitting there on Sunday saying to myself “Typical Arsenal”, “Same old Arsenal”, “Flipping Wenger”, “One of those days” from even the 50th minute. Why? Because we managed to stack the odds against ourselves in terms of getting anything out of the game – poor mistakes, poor team selection, poor tactics… Basically, things that I had seen before. The same mistakes being made again and again! Do you know why not a single pundit gave us a chance of winning the PL a couple of seasons back despite being frontrunners? Because, based on all evidence from the previous decade, we’re injury-prone, mentally-weak, half-season bottlers. We were never going to sustain our challenge to the end – just like in 2008 and 2010 before that. And guess what? They were right! My biggest worry after we lose a game is not the three points lost, but the impact it will have on the next game and the one after that. Not to even mention that, just like last season and the season before, we will most likely get to the end and be rueing dropped points like these for how far off we are from the top. My point is, effectively, that we over-exaggerators and tantrum-throwers have seen this before. Many times, in fact. It is therefore more likely that this is not “just one game” because of the manner in which the defeat happened AND that we’ve seen this before! (*”seen before” repetition for emphasis)

52. Hi Rich, I’ll be the first to admit Wenger did wo­nders keeping us competitive during thos­e times of financial discipline. However­, I dont see how this helps in the mode­rn times. In 1945, the British people vo­ted for Clement Attlee over Winston Chur­chill despite Churchill leading Great Br­itain through WWII. The sentiment was, t­hanks for your service Winston, but now ­it’s time to rebuild after 4 years of wa­r and we want to go in another directio­n. Around 5 years ago, we had players li­ke Almunia, Eboue, Denilson, Aliadiare, ­Senderos and the like – and they were al­l playing around 40 matches a season. We­nger was then doing a great job to keep ­us in the top 4.

    But now, we have upgraded pretty much ac­ross the board. Pretty much our entire s­quad are top quality players and as such­, the expectations are different. Histo­rians say Churchill lost to Attlee becau­se he couldn’t move on from the war, whi­lst Attlee set forward a vision of a pos­t-war Britain. Some fans, and Wenger, ne­ed to move on, and into present times. T­ime to get over the years of financial d­iscipline. Because in present times, We­nger should not be allowed to get away w­ith a failure to compete for the title w­ith this squad. This isn’t 2010 anymore,­ its 2015. If the club are really going ­to win the title, then everyone needs to­ shift mentality. Starting with banishi­ng the ‘4th place’ success stories from ­memory. We have a great squad, yet we ha­ve people saying ‘oh but remember in 201­0, when he had no money’ – yeah, I remem­ber, everyone does. But it was 5 years a­go!!!!

53. Strange how the FAC means nothing to you two at all.Is Wenger the only manager you’ve experienced as an Arsenal supporter? You mentioned that was then and this is now, but the world is in constant flux, and how can you tell whats going to happen next?You think you know the world, but flux is laughing its ass of at- you as it does the rest of us.Wait till those hormones fade a bit and everything starts sagging.You think at a certain age you know everything? What do you know? You weren’t trawling out the Le grove clichés much after Xmas last year? And now you are.
    Your minds are the problem; as you hitch yourselves to a game of some skill but often luck, with a million polemics each moment, where no outcome can ever be predicted in the hope of attaining an orgasm of superiority,but its symbolic victory, and do you really think there is such thing as victory? You also feel inferior and jealous that other teams might have success.Its bullshit, theres no need.If your team doesnt win it doesnt mean that you are a loser in life.It really doesnt.The idea that one must be happy if one is successful is a fallacy.Success is relative, yawning graveyards prove that.
    To you Chelsea perhaps are a major team, to many of us we recall the old Stamford Bridge days what a load of wankers they were, and without the petro dollars they would still be that.You can throw Man City in there too.If you hitch you mind to reacting with each game in such a way then you can expect to suffer and suffer you will,no matter who comes in.It cannot always be sunshine, but we cannot always reacting in anger when it rains.Arent you lucky you can vent spleen to people who are polemically in disagreement with you?How evangelical of you.Leading us to the light?
    Also if its always Wengers fault then why did Paddy say he trusts he players too much? Ever played football to a serious level?Or sitting on the sidelines ranting?Have any idea what its like to be out there when nobody is clicking and the supporters arent supporting?Statistically it wasnt typical Arsenal or Wenger.
    Its really boring to have you coming over and playing the same arguments and again and again, as we’ve counter argued all along-for years now.I don’t think you love football, I think you love an idea of winning and the feel of superiority you think it gives you.It doesnt, and shows a great lack you carry around.People are to ready to blame and castigate, if they put that energy into lifes real problems, perhaps humanity might last a bit longer than the crash course its on at the moment? Ask the journo in Azer that got killed about how he feels about over reaction.To be honest you come across as spoilt brats who have had everything materially and cry when they dont feel good when “your”team loses.Margret Thatcher must be so happy.Mission accomplished.

54. I suppose that those who prefer to refer to “historians” as opposed to acknowledging and observing the legacy from concrete, bricks and mortar bequeathed to them by those who fought in and won the Second World War also prefer to listen to the likes of Savage or Murphy, gibbering plundits who were presciently lampooned by the Super-Plundit himself: Alan Partdrige, about twenty years ago:

    “This is great banter”

55. http://youtu.be/KBWuDhIv9B0

    Truth or fiction? 🙂

56. Laen

    I’d be absolutely delighted to leave past where it is. The problem with that is that it is constantly brought up and the versions of history are ones I often vehemently disagree with. I can’t ignore what someone presents as truth if their arguments rest on the foundations of what, to me, are untruths. Someone says we had big money all along, someone says we had pretty much the same money as all our rivals…I can’t skip over that.

    Among those who think Wenger is not the right manager, you’re a rare exception in saying we were up against it financially years ago and did well to finish where we did. If I’m debating with someone and we can agree on there being two eras, that the second began in the summer of 2013, and Wenger had done well till then, bang, that’s Christmas to me and means there’s a chance of getting somewhere in discussing where we stand now.

    Then there’s the much smaller matter of how we’ve done in the last two years. Good enough? I think so, but my thoughts about how I come to that conclusion could run to a book. We all know we have to contract our arguments,though, to make them readable (I have more problems than most doing that, but I try my best), which unfortunately leaves the problem of my answer being read by some as,say, ‘oh, happy with 3rd or 4th’, or other things which aren’t the case.

    I think we’ve progressed well these last two years.

    i think we’ve used our extra income well in closing the gap that existed between us and the biggest hitters.

    I think we arrived at this new season with a squad which can compete for the title, and I will be very disappointed if we don’t.

    I think the squad is an unusual, idiosyncratic one, in that the individual value of our players is very high but finding the right mix and balance in the team, especially in midfield, has proved difficult and is not yet solved.

    I believe there is a good explanation of the above which exonerates the manager from any charges of, say, disorganised thinking : our recent history is pretty much unique.

    We have this collection of players the manager began developing in leaner times- Ramsey, Ox, Walcott, Wilshere – none of whom I want to leave, all of whom the manager has understandably fought to develop and not block off; then we have three superb players in Cazorla, Ozil and Sanchez, all of whose signings delighted me. Then we have Arteta, who came in at a difficult time and performed admirably. Then Coquelin, who snatched the latest and perhaps last of a series of opportunities with both hands.

    A great set of players, yet I have absolutely no idea how best to make use of them all or even how to keep them all happy when fit. But, to re-iterate, I find it perfectly understandable how we have got to that point.

    I believe we have money available- I don’t know what but maybe 40-60 million- which, if the right player can be brought in, can make us outright favourites instead of one of the favourites (which can mean many things).

    I believe the manager is trying to find that player. I believe the player is most likely a striker. A deadlier striker than we can currently call upon will, effectively, buy us the time/ space to try fit everything together in the midfield.

    I believe it is a tough job, incredibly tough, to get that player. And that the better bet, if it can’t be done, is to hold fire and not bring anyone in until such a player is available.

    The opening defeat hit me hard ,particularly as the midfield conundrum I believe exists seemed so evident, but I think it would be mad to reverse my serious optimism on the back of that result.

    Now I’m nervous. Now I’m hoping the team can make a fool of me in the weeks to come for allowing my confidence, in their coherence as a team, to be rocked badly by one game.

    Oh, and yep, I did really poorly-again!- trying to keep it short. But, as always, I was trying my best to.

57. Wonder how impartial the review will.be of today’s game. Coquelin should have been sent of for a second yellow card at least twice

58. G if you want impartial I am not sure which web site you should go to. But if you find one, do write in and tell us.