Today on the Arsenal History Society site:
Yesterday on Untold Arsenal
And today on Untold Arsenal…
St. Totteringham’s Day – the moment at which no matter what shenanigans are tried, Tottenham cannot overtake Arsenal by fair means or foul. Tottenham could make 75 points, but Arsenal already have 80.
But Tottenham do have 60 points, the number of points they got by the end of last season, but with five games to spare, so they can (and probably will) talk of progress – including a return to Europe. Yet although that return looks likely could Newcastle overtake Tottenham and push them into the Conference next year?
Well, that could raise all sorts of issues, since the last time Totteringham played in the Conference they were expelled for failing to complete their fixtures on time (that was in Deember 2021) and the punishment for that expulsion is still hanging over them.
Another option could be for Newcastle to overtake Tottenham in the Leage. Tottenham have 60 points and Newcastle have 53, with four games left for Newcastle – so that option certainly is possible.
Indeed it would be somewhat ironic if that happened since this was planned to be the season of Tottenham’s re-emergence having come 4th, 6th, 7th and 8th in the last four seasons (although not in that order chronologically.)
But there is another reason why one can talk doom and gloom for Tottenham (even if it does involve a dollop of wishful thinking), and that is the form table which we take from the aptly named Fishy website.
There we find Newcastle in third place for the table based on the last six games – and their next game is away to Burnley. Rather surprisingly Everton are in fourth – and with a game against Luton for their next match. (The only problem with Everton is that there always seems to be the possibility of another points deduction over the way they handle their finances, but they are 11 points clear of Luton so should be ok no matter what the next punishment is).
But what of Tottenham, with their wonderful, gleaming, much praised but still without a sponsor, stadium (and that lack of sponsor has I’ve been told, has caused a certain amount of angst among the financial chaps at New White Hart Lane or whatever it is called). Let’s have a look…
| Team | P | W | D | L | F | A | GD | Pts | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Manchester C | 6 | 5 | 1 | 0 | 19 | 4 | +15 | 16 |
| 2 | Arsenal | 6 | 5 | 0 | 1 | 15 | 4 | +11 | 15 |
| 3 | Newcastle U | 6 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 15 | 7 | +8 | 13 |
| 4 | Everton | 6 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 7 | 7 | 0 | 13 |
| 12 | Manchester U | 6 | 1 | 4 | 1 | 13 | 12 | +1 | 7 |
| 13 | Tottenham Ho | 6 | 2 | 1 | 3 | 8 | 13 | -5 | 7 |
In fact Tottenham, for their remaining five fixtures have two that look absolutely sure-fire wins: away to Sheffield United and at home to Burnley.
But those other matches could be a bit of a challenge, starting on 2nd May with Chelsea away. Then three days later it is Liverpool away. One week after that is the Burnley home game and the following Tuesday it is Tottenham at home to Manchester City. How amusing (although very unlikely) it would be if Tottenham then helped Arsenal by winning that game! Although I suspect they won’t.
So with Tottenham being 13th in the table based on the last six games it is not looking completely certain that they might make it into anything other than the Conference next season. And that would raise an issue for the last time Tottenham were in the Conference they refused to play their final fixture and were thrown out… and still have the punishment for not completing fixtures hanging over them. But maybe Uefa will forget that.
It is also worth comparing Arsenal with this point last season, after the 35 games. And rather curiously just as now, when Arsenal were on 35 games last season, Manchester City were on 34 games.
| Team | P | W | D | L | F | A | GD | Pts | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Manchester City | 34 | 26 | 4 | 4 | 89 | 31 | 58 | 82 |
| 2 | Arsenal | 35 | 25 | 6 | 4 | 83 | 39 | 44 | 81 |
Manchester City last season had 82 points from 34 games, and this season 79 points from 34 games.
Arsenal last season had 81 points from 35 games and now have 80 points from 35 games. So both teams have slipped a small amount.
| Team | P | W | D | L | F | A | GD | Pts | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Arsenal 2023/24 | 35 | 25 | 5 | 5 | 85 | 28 | 57 | 80 |
| 2 | Arsenal 2022/23 | 35 | 25 | 6 | 4 | 83 | 39 | 44 | 81 |
| 2 | Manchester City 2023/24 | 34 | 24 | 7 | 3 | 82 | 32 | 50 | 79 |
| 1 | Manchester City 2022/23 | 34 | 26 | 4 | 4 | 89 | 31 | 58 | 82 |
Arsenal’s position now compared with a year ago is one point worse off but with a goal difference 13 goals better off.
Manchester City’s position now compared with a year ago is that they are three points worse off but also have a goal difference eight goals worse.
This means that on the main measures, Arsenal are improving slightly and Manchester City are declining slightly. But the key word in both situations is “slightly”. The situation could be transformed within a game or two.
One thing you can pretty much guarantee on any football post is a lack of financial information. Its almost as if football fans go around with “financially illiterate and proud of it” tattooed across their foreheads. So Spurs are in agonies over not having a sponsorship deal ? the same Spurs who appear to be generating cash like crazy from the new multi purpose stadium ?
Well, for the next few games I’ll be all for Sp*rs, so that they have a chance to be in the CL and make the City game a game that counts.
Necessity makes for strange bedfellows….
Jod that is a really interesting comment and I’m glad you’ve made it. Tottenham are certainly generating cash from their stadium, and the use for purposes other than football helps, although there is a limit on the number of days it can be used, imposed within the planning permission. But “generating cash like crazy” is, I think, somewhat vague as a financial comment and most people in the financial sector, or indeed in the finance department of a modest sized company, would feel there is a need to be a little more specific when something that would be taken as obvious (like a sponsor from day one) is not achieved. The debt for building the stadium, has to be paid off across 25 years, and to make those payments Tottenham have made a series of assumptions about income. As a privately owned company they don’t have to reveal too much info on that but I really can’t see any reason to believe that they had not factored in having a lucrative sponsorship deal for the stadium name for this season. After all the sponsor would have got a huge bonus from having its name associated with the stadium from its launch, rather than have it added later when the publicity will be somewhat lower. Besides everything else, from a PR point of view, it doesn’t look good, since the general view in the commercial world appears to be, from people I talk to, that Tottenham failed to get the deal they had expected. There is after all no benefit in not having a sponsor from day one.
@jod,
I have no understanding how you can make a definitive statement, and then close your argument with the words ‘appear to be generating cash like crazy. That is a logical oxymoron.
As for the sponsorship deal, guess that they did not get the ammount they wanted, and rather then lower the expectations, they wait for the expectations to become reality even if it takes a few years. Still, it shows they are not yet some global recognised brand….
I agree with you Chris, should the Totties be able to get to 4th (not a trophy) with the City game left, we will all be rooting for them. In fact I think that game is the week leading up to the last matches, so Arsenal will certainly be supporting them in that game, so as to lower the City flag by at least 2 or preferably 3 points. It may get them to a space where they could start negotiations on a sponsorship deal as well, so hopefully they will do us the favour by lowering City. Just a pity Potchettino is now at Chelsea, as you can see that he’s worked out what to do against City, given their results this year. Not many sides have taken points off them and Chelsea have both games received their point for the draw. So I trust Ange speaks to Potchettino to get some help & do a Chelsea on City in that match
I put on my Hazmat suit and tiptoed into Sp*rs internet land and poked around. The understanding there is that the powers that be are waiting for Champions League football so they can up the price of a sponsorship deal. The belief is that they have purposely used a clumsy name for now (apparently if you buy anything there it just comes up on your statement as ‘the stadium’) so that nothing sticks. Apparently, a big club like them deserve to be recognized with a big deal from a sponsor…
Going… so on that basis there won’t be a sponsor next season either.
Football finance expert Kieran Maguire has said that the way the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium has been monetised by Daniel Levy has made the club the envy of every other side in European football. Daniel has made Spurs the most profitable club in the Premier League . They are also the third most profitable team in world sport
According to Forbes and who are we to argue, Daniel has amassed a recorded income – earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortisation – of £333 million ($414m) since 2020.
United are 5th with £324 million, City 10th with £264 million & Liverpool 12th with £237 million. These 4 clubs are in the top 12 of world sport.
Spurs also turn out to be the most expensive team to watch with 7 London clubs in the top 10 most expensive. Villa, City & Everton are the 3 most expensive non London clubs to watch.
Most PROFITABLE does not mean the most VALUABLE. United are the most valuable at £6B, Liverpool £5.2B, City £4.9B, Chelsea £3B, Spurs £2.8B And Arsenal bringing up the rear at a miserly £2.26B.
So it seems the Arsenal financial team need to raise their game as much as and to a level Arteta has managed with the team. Whereas the Emirates became a burden for Wenger Spurs’ new stadium unlike Arsenal’s has become a cash cow. And it will become even more profitable after receiving planning to build an 180 room hotel next to the stadium.
Arsenal had a 10 year start but it seems Daniel & his team have already overtaken the Arsenal snails.
PS Does this constitute a trophy for the Spurs fans to put in their empty trophy cabinet?
Adrian
Without the figures to hand that you have produced, I have over the years read ‘things’ that basically support what you have said andI have actually said as much on here.
I simply cannot comprehend how this situation has been allowed, (if indeed my thoughts and your figures are correct) to happen.
We know that not winning the CL is and has been for a while, an incumbrance when it comes to our Global branding, but given that Spurs have not won the CL either, that seems a rather lame excuse.
But at least, despite not winning the PL for 20 years, we were in the competition for a record 19 consecutive years, which of course is many more times than Spurs.
And of course we do actually still win things, another thing Spurs singularly fail to do.
So what is it exactly that makes Spurs the most profitable club in the PL?
I don’t doubt your figures or your sources, as I say I’ve read similar things but I find it difficult to figure out how?
The stadium was late. Ran over budget. Hasn’t got a sponsor.
The team still wins nothing. Pops in and out of the CL. 6 times in the last 14 years to be precise, which pales in to insignificance compared with our 19 consecutive seasons.
So again I ask how?
Surely putting on the occasional pop concert or Grid Iron match doesn’t make Tottenham a more succesful and richer club than Arsenal, or at least it shouldn’t! But if it does, some serious questions need to be asked about how our club is run financially?
Maybe someone can educate me on this because it baffles me.
I am quoting from a piece in the Guardian :
“Kulusevski and Van de Ven do not believe there is a gap between Tottenham and Arsenal in terms of ability. Spurs hogged 62% of the ball and had 15 shots to Arsenal’s nine, which included a handful of near misses. But in the crunch moments, it was Arsenal – who led 3-0 at half-time – who showed the strength and focus.”
There is no gap between Gunners and Sp*rs in terms of ability ? Yeah…. Dream on….
Made my day…..
“Kulusevski and Van de Ven do not believe there is a gap between Tottenham and Arsenal in terms of ability”.
Well that is apart from:
Apart from the 20 points
18 more goals scored
24 less goals conceded
Better Goal difference of 42
Yep, almost identical.
I have no issues in supporting the Spuds to beat Man City . Just hope that City will implode , all by themselves. I would prefer to win it outright , rather than be presented with the l two EPL trophies for all our exertions .
And taken away from them for 115 reasons !
Up the Gunners !
Nitram – I think it’s down to one man & the Spurs fans hate figure – Daniel Levy What amazes me is the Emirates opened in 2006 & Spurs new ground in 2019 – 13 years later. Wenger was hampered by repayments & yet Spurs seem to be rolling in cash with the rest of the PL & clubs across Europe looking on enviously.
To me it’s been down to the poor exploitation of Arsenal as a brand. They are bottom in a list of the 10 most valuable football club & they aren’t in the top 25 most profitable. The Kroenkas need to ask questions why they are trailing so far behind the 4 other PL clubs.
If Daniel was put in charge I doubt Arsenal would have the squad they now posses.
Adrian
You say it’s down to Levy, but HOW????
WHAT exactly has he done?
He didn’t get the Stadium done, on time or on cost. That’s bad on his part. So he’s not that brilliant.
He hasn’t assembled a winning team. That’s down to who he has employed to run the team. So again, he’s not that brilliant.
They cant even get a sponsor for the stadium. Yet again, that’s down to him. So, at the risk of repeating myself, he’s not that brilliant.
The club are actually going backwards, not forwards as the media keep telling us. Another fail on Levy’s part.
They are still pot less as far as meaningful trophies are concerned, for decades. That is down to him. Another fail.
Okay, the stadium exists and they put on the odd extra event, but I fail to see how that counter acts what is basically a plethora of failures.
Late, overpriced stadium, without a sponsor on the outside, or a decent football team on the inside. Failure after failure on Levy’s part.
Even their support isn’t great.
In the UK Arsenals is 3rd on 23% behind Man Utd and Liverpool. Spurs are only 6th, on 11%
Globally Spurs are again behind Arsenal and all the other top PL teams.
I simply cannot see one thing about Spurs that explains their financial status, and yet there it is in black and white.
So, can somebody please tell me what makes such a badly run club, with relatively poor support, so valuable and with such a high income?
Honestly I am absolutely baffled.
Please don’t just say levy. Explain what he has done to make a pigs ear so valuable?
I have no issues supporting Spurs. Brickfields; see, I knew you were a undercover Spudney all these years! LOL! Im only joking Ind!!! Or am I?
How are you, sure hope you and yours are all doing well?
Take mate! Cheers!