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By Ref Reviewer 03
Game Arsenal –ManchesterUnited. Ref in charge was Mike Dean. What was his score on the day?
| Min | Type | Foul from | On | C/NC | Comment | points | weight |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
2 |
OTHER | Vermaelen | Valencia | C | Little shove by Vermaelen thoughValenciamight have got away with shirt grabbing just before |
1 |
1 |
|
5 |
OTHER | RVP | Smalling | NC | RVP has as much right to the ball – wrong call |
0 |
0 |
|
7 |
OFFSIDE | Valencia | C | Assumed correct |
1 |
1 |
|
|
9 |
OTHER | AOC | Evra | C | Slight foul – advantage played |
1 |
1 |
|
19 |
OTHER | Song | Giggs | C | Trip – advantage played |
1 |
1 |
|
26 |
OFFSIDE | Welbeck | C | Assumed correct |
1 |
1 |
|
|
30 |
OTHER | Vermaelen | Giggs | C | Held his shirt |
1 |
1 |
|
34 |
OFFSIDE | Giggs | C | Advantage played |
1 |
1 |
|
|
37 |
PENALTY | C | Rooney purposely went to ground after Song briefly grabbed arm |
1 |
3 |
||
|
39 |
OTHER | Valencia | Vermaelen | C | Foul |
1 |
1 |
|
41 |
OTHER | Song | Rooney | C | Song goes into aerial challenge, arm catches Rooney in face |
1 |
1 |
|
41 |
YELLOW | Song | NC | Gets a word, but should have been booked |
0 |
0 |
|
|
43 |
OTHER | Ramsey | Giggs | C | Pulled him back |
1 |
1 |
|
43 |
YELLOW | Ramsey | C | Unsporting behavour |
1 |
2 |
|
|
44 |
OTHER | Rafael | AOC | C | Foul – advantage played |
1 |
1 |
|
44 |
YELLOW | Rafael | C | Similar foul to Ramsey’s, ref is consistent |
1 |
2 |
|
|
44 |
OFFSIDE | Welbeck | C | Assumed correct |
1 |
1 |
|
|
45 |
OTHER | Smalling | RVP | NC | Pushed – not given |
0 |
0 |
|
45 |
OTHER | Song | Giggs | C | Slight trip |
1 |
1 |
|
46 |
OTHER | NC | Man U take quick free kick 5 yards from spot of foul, should have been retaken |
0 |
0 |
||
|
46 |
GOAL | C | Valencia – goal okay |
1 |
3 |
||
| Half time |
17 |
23 |
|||||
| CORRECT |
80,95% |
82,14% |
|||||
| YELLOW |
2 |
3 |
66,67 |
||||
| RED |
0 |
0 |
|||||
| PENALTY |
1 |
1 |
100,00 |
||||
| GOAL |
1 |
1 |
100,00 |
||||
| OTHER |
3 |
4 |
75,00 |
||||
|
7 |
9 |
77,78 |
|||||
| OFFSIDE |
4 |
4 |
100,00 |
||||
| Second half | |||||||
|
47 |
OTHER | RVP | Valencia | C | Trip |
1 |
1 |
|
54 |
OTHER | Song | Welbeck | NC | Trip awarded but Song won ball fairly |
0 |
0 |
|
58 |
PENALTY | C | Evra had arms tight into body, hard shot from close distance – right not to give pen |
1 |
3 |
||
|
60 |
OTHER | Valencia | Vermaelen | C | Challenged with raised arm |
1 |
1 |
|
63 |
OFFSIDE | Evra | NC | Was level, however shot was saved before whistle |
0 |
0 |
|
|
65 |
OTHER | NC | Goal kick given to Man U but ball played out byValencia |
0 |
0 |
||
|
65 |
OTHER | Evra | Walcott | NC | Trip – not given |
0 |
0 |
|
66 |
OTHER | Giggs | Ramsey | NC | Pushed off ball – not given |
0 |
0 |
|
67 |
OTHER | NC | Szczesney was injured from the challenge by Welbeck. Ref should stop play when the keeper is injured |
0 |
0 |
||
|
71 |
GOAL | C | RVP – goal okay |
1 |
3 |
||
|
72 |
OTHER | Koscielny | Nani | C | Trip from behind |
1 |
1 |
|
72 |
YELLOW | Koscielny | C | He was out of position and determined to foul Nani – deserved |
1 |
2 |
|
|
77 |
OTHER | Welbeck | Koscielny | C | Body check |
1 |
1 |
|
80 |
OTHER | Carrick | Ramsey | C | Trip |
1 |
1 |
|
81 |
OTHER | Song | Rooney | C | Trip |
1 |
1 |
|
81 |
GOAL | C | Welbeck – goal okay |
1 |
3 |
||
|
83 |
OTHER | Ramsey | Rooney | C | Jumped a bit late into Rooney |
1 |
1 |
|
85 |
YELLOW | RVP | NC | Normally it’s okay to caution for dissent, but Rooney did the same thing earlier without getting booked |
0 |
0 |
|
|
86 |
OTHER | Rosicky | Rooney | C | Trip from behind |
1 |
1 |
|
86 |
YELLOW | Rosicky | C | Deserved |
1 |
2 |
|
|
87 |
OTHER | Scholes | C | Handball – perhaps lucky not to have been booked for kicking ball away after whistle |
1 |
1 |
|
|
88 |
OTHER | Koscielny | Welbeck | C | Shove |
1 |
1 |
|
90 |
OTHER | Evra | Walcott | C | Lunged head first into Walcott |
1 |
1 |
|
90 |
YELLOW | Evra | C | Yellow but could easily have been red |
1 |
2 |
|
|
90 |
OTHER | NC | 5 added minutes are shown – should be 8 |
0 |
0 |
||
|
92 |
OTHER | Vermaelen | Park | C | Block |
1 |
1 |
|
92 |
OTHER | Vermaelen | Park | C | Hold |
1 |
1 |
|
95 |
OTHER | Song | Rooney | C | Blocked his run/Took out of play – advantage played |
1 |
1 |
|
95 |
YELLOW | Song | C | Unsporting behavour |
1 |
2 |
|
| 2nd half score | |||||||
| TOTAL |
21 |
31 |
|||||
| % | CORRECT |
72,41% |
77,50% |
||||
| YELLOW |
4 |
5 |
80,00 |
||||
| RED |
0 |
0 |
|||||
| PENALTY |
1 |
1 |
100,00 |
||||
| GOAL |
2 |
2 |
100,00 |
||||
| OTHER |
3 |
6 |
50,00 |
||||
|
10 |
14 |
71,43 |
|||||
| OFFSIDE |
0 |
1 |
0,00 |
||||
| TOTAL SCORE | |||||||
| TOTAL |
38 |
54 |
|||||
| % | CORRECT |
76,00% |
79,41% |
||||
| YELLOW |
6 |
8 |
75,00 |
||||
| RED |
0 |
0 |
|||||
| PENALTY |
2 |
2 |
100,00 |
||||
| GOAL |
3 |
3 |
100,00 |
||||
| OTHER |
6 |
10 |
60,00 |
||||
|
17 |
23 |
73,91 |
|||||
| OFFSIDE |
4 |
5 |
80,00 |
||||
| NEW | 1st half | 2nd half | Total | % | |||
| WRONG | NC F ARS 1 |
0 |
1 |
1 |
|||
| NCF ARS 2 |
1 |
0 |
1 |
||||
| NCF ARS 3 |
0 |
0 |
0 |
||||
| Total normal |
0 |
1 |
1 |
FA ARS |
10,00% |
||
| Total important |
1 |
0 |
1 |
FA ARS |
50,00% |
||
| General total |
1 |
1 |
2 |
FA ARS |
16,67% |
||
| WRONG | NC F MU 1 |
3 |
6 |
9 |
|||
| NC F MU 2 |
0 |
1 |
1 |
||||
| NC F MU 3 |
0 |
0 |
0 |
||||
| Total normal |
3 |
6 |
9 |
FA MU |
90,00% |
||
| Total important |
0 |
1 |
1 |
FA MU |
50,00% |
||
| General total |
3 |
7 |
10 |
FA MU |
83,33% |
||
| TOTAL NORMAL WRONG |
10 |
||||||
| TOTAL IMPORTANT WRONG |
2 |
||||||
| GENERAL TOTAL |
12 |
||||||
| CORRECT | CF ARS 1 |
6 |
5 |
11 |
|||
| CF ARS 2 |
1 |
1 |
2 |
||||
| CF ARS 3 |
1 |
1 |
2 |
||||
| Total normal |
6 |
5 |
11 |
||||
| Total important |
2 |
2 |
4 |
||||
| CORRECT | CF MU 1 |
7 |
9 |
16 |
|||
| CF MU 2 |
1 |
3 |
4 |
||||
| CF MU3 |
1 |
2 |
3 |
||||
| Total normal |
7 |
9 |
16 |
||||
| Total Important |
2 |
5 |
7 |
||||
| Foul ARS |
7 |
9 |
16 |
||||
| FOUL MU |
3 |
7 |
10 |
||||
| OLD VERSION | |||||||
| Correct calls | For Arsenal |
15 |
39,47% |
||||
| For Man Utd |
23 |
60,53% |
|||||
| Total correct calls |
38 |
||||||
| Wrong calls | Against Arsenal |
10 |
83,33% |
||||
| Against Man Utd |
2 |
16,67% |
|||||
| Total |
12 |
||||||
| Total fouls made by | Arsenal |
16 |
61,54% |
||||
| Man Utd |
10 |
38,46% |
|||||
| Total |
26 |
||||||
The first half went pretty much without incident until the 37th minute when Wayne Rooney fell to ground after a little tug by Song. Replays show that Rooney was using his arm to hold off Song when the Arsenal midfielder grabbed it briefly. Rooney then dropped to ground and appealed for a penalty. For me this was a 50-50 penalty. There was contact but nothing that would make Rooney fall like that, and thus I feel the ref was right in both not giving the penalty and in not booking Rooney.
A few minutes later Rooney was in the spotlight again as Song went up to dispute a header but arrived late and with his arm raised. It wasn’t particularly violent but I felt it warranted a booking, however Song was fortunate just to get a verbal warning.
Dean was in no mood for antics after that and when Ramsey draped his arms around Giggs and pulled him back, Dean was quick to book Ramsey. Dean did show consistency by booking Rafael Silva for a similar foul a minute later.
In the 44th minute it was interesting to see that Mike Dean made Arsenal retake a kick for an offside offense against Welbeck. I suspect it was because it wasn’t taken from the spot of the infraction.
Now, contrast this with what Man United did two minutes later. Following a slight trip by Song on Giggs, Manchester United took a quick free kick 5 yards from the spot of the foul. They caught Arsenal a bit off guard made a quick attack down the left flank. Arsenal managed to clear the ball but they seemed to be rattled.
Man United took the ball down the pitch again, and again Arsenal cleared, but the third time was a charm for Manchester as Giggs had space to cross the ball perfectly for Valencia on the far post. The goal was scored legitimately and I concur with that.
Overall Mike Dean had a fairly good first half scoring 82%. His performance in the second half wouldn’t be as good.
In the 58th minute, Arsenal had a penalty shout when Ramsey’s shot was blocked by Patrice Evra. The ball hit Evra on the arm but it was a hard shot from close range and Evra’s arms were tight into his body – an example of ball to arm and Dean was right to play on.
Dean raised a few eyebrows in the 67th minute when did not stop play when Arsenal’s goalkeeper was visibly injured after making a save against Welbeck. If a goalkeeper is injured the ref should always stop play to see if he is alright or needs treatment. Arsenal were lucky that United did not muster an attack on goal at that time. Dean did finally allow Szczesny to get treatment, but it was only after Evra’s cross was played out for a corner by Koscielny. Later in the match Dean was also slow to stop play when Theo Walcott knocked himself unconscious when his head hit the ground, though at least this time he did stop play when United paused on the ball at midfield.
Nani also took a knock when Koscielny was out of position upfield and tackled Nani from behind for which he was duly booked. Play was stopped for 3½ minutes while Nani received treatment on the pitch and each team made a substitution. Arsenal fans, and even team captain Robin himself, were shocked when Oxlade-Chamberlain was the one to be replaced after he had put in a stellar performance on his first start in the Premier League.
His replacement was Andre Arshavin and he was easily beaten by Valencia who ended up laying the ball off for Welbeck to score what would be the winning goal in the 81st minute.
From that point on, Manchester took their time on each throw-in, free kick, etc., and when Evra let the ball go past without collecting it for the throw-in, Van Persie ran up to Dean probably to question why he was letting Evra get away with that. Dean immediately pulled a yellow card out of his pocket and booked Van Persie.
Now, refs don’t like it when players start running up to them and telling them how to do their job, but in this case it is a bit different. For one thing, Evra was wasting time and Dean wasn’t doing much about it, and more importantly there was the incident earlier in the half when Mertesacker cleared the ball off the line and Rooney ran up to the ref and was asking for a penalty. So why is Robin booked when Rooney wasn’t earlier for the same offense? As a side note, and I know many of you may find this hard to believe, but Wayne Rooney has not received a single card in the Premiership this season.
So as we approached 90 minutes, how much injury time would we see? Well, if you account for the injuries to Szczesny, Nani, and Walcott, play was stopped for nearly 6 minutes in total for those three injuries. There were also stoppages for bookings to Evra for example who lunged head first into Walcott and came off worse for it. Adding substitutions, time wasting, and time for the ref to have a word for players, there should have been at least 8 minutes added on. The board showed only 5.
Arsenal couldn’t manage to find an equalizing goal in the final minutes, although Song did manage to pick up his 7th card of the season for a block which took Rooney out the play of a Manchester counter-attack.
Dean scored 76% on the day, and wrong calls were in favour of Manchester United 10 to 2.
The loss was a bitter pill for Arsenal fans to take but at least they can take some consolation in the impressive performances by Nico Yennaris and especially Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain who seems certain to be an English International standout sooner rather than later.
As I didn’t do the ref review I was in way happy (not really happy happy if you know what I mean…) about this review.
When he didn’t do us over (as he has done on many occasions before) we should accept it and give him credit for a rather good ref performance on the day.
Even thought the wrong calls still favour United a lot but not many important wrong calls in this one.
In fact have to check it but I think this is one of his highest scores of the season so far. And that in an Arsenal game we lost.
Now who dares to say that our ref reviewers are too biased? Come to think of it even after all Webb and certainly Dowd did to us in the not that far away past we still are able to give them high scores this season when they deserve them.
Great job my fellow ref reviewers
I think the ref had a good game overall. He had the opportunity to screw us over with the not given penalty on Rooney.
I dind’t think it was a penalty but that doesn’t often stop Refs when it’s Rooney going down dramatically, especially when it’s an Arsenal player involved. I was actually quite amazed, it is so rare that we see these decisions, when there is a small amount of doubt, go in Arsenals favour.
Overall the ref seemed to take it on a relaxed pace once the second goal was scored by Man Utd. I had my heart in the mouth when Szczesny was injured and also when Walcott was injured. Especially Walcott was dazed if am right falling face down and the referee was not really bothered.
Actually I was expecting the game to be played more than the five minutes of extra time as there were some time wasting going on with Lindegaard running from one end of the box to other to kick and all. Not to forget the Evra incident which is being mentioned here.
All these should be legitimately addressed in a forum where there is an actie participation across all team fans.
Overall I did not believe that Van Persie would miss such an opportunity. It really has taken me sometime to even read articles here and in other places sadly.
May be the referee thought with the second goal scored in the 80 plus minute it would not be much of a chance for Arsenal to score the second one.
Over the 90mins Mike Dean had little influence on the outcome of this match. Once the contest developed in the first half it was clear Man Utd held the upper hand, they required no help from the Ref and almost inevitably scored just before half-time.
I think its important to be fair in our assessments here, there were times when Dean played a good advantage for us and he could have booked Alex Song earlier than he eventually did. As for the Rooney penalty/dive, again I wouldn’t have been surprised had he pointed to the spot, Song did have a little tug at his arm.
Anyway, My main ire from his performance came from his continual refusal to acknowledge the constant time-wasting from opposition players on the occasions that they hold an advantage. Maybe Mr Dean always allows such actions from the winning team to go unpunished, I wouldn’t know, we haven’t had that luxury for 11 games in row now under his stewardship.
Credit has to be given where credit’s due; Mike Dean had a descent match from the point of view of us that were at the Emirates.
I hope he keeps it up and maybe we’ll eventually get a victory under his charge!
Tasos, time-wasting takes place with all away teams and it wasn’t all that excessive on this occasion.
What about the added time. Surely Walcott’s injury alone should have warranted 5 extra minutes, and then you can add nani’s and rooney’s. I expect there could have been more added time because I only saw part of the 2nd half, and was expecting there to be 10 added minutes to be honest. Still, in terms of the ref’s performance, it was pretty good.
Play was stopped in these instances in the 2nd half:
3m30 Nani
1m45 Walcott
0m30 Szczesny
0m30 Evra after he lunged headfirst into Theo (why no replay of this?)
1m00 2 Park substitutions
1m15 Verbal warning to Ramsey + substitution
0m30 Time wasting on throw-ins, kicks, etc
0m30 Time lost for excessive celebrating after goals (RVP, Welbeck)
=====
9m30 of stoppage time
The 5 minutes put on the board didn’t even account for the time stopped time for treatment to Nani and Walcott.
@Walter:
Seconded.
@Davi & Ref Reviewer 03:
I as well was quite appalled by the amount of stoppage time awarded. Also, there was so much stoppage in the last part of the game that it killed the flow of our offense. I did think that the time wasting permitted was excessive in this case, and it hurt Arsenal’s chances.
While I agree that this was a relatively good performance for Dean, I don’t want to give him a complete pass on the mistakes that he did make just because he was “much better than usual.” 🙂
@Anne – I thought he had quite a good first half, but he seemed to show bias in the 2nd half. The relatively little time added on and his not doing much of trying to keep the game moving along did stand out.
There was a free kick that Rooney was taking his time to take at around the 92 minute mark. Rooney was looking at Dean who was off camera. Then finally Dean came running forward into the picture and whistled for Rooney to take the free kick. I’d like to know what Dean was doing there off screen and out of position. Maybe someone who was there can add a little information if they remember that incident.
Unless their is a very serious injury or other bizarre stoppage, there will never, or ever has been, more than 5mins (6mins if you are SAF at OT) of stoppage time in such matches. Consequently, 5mins was an acceptable norm.
A goal or incident in stoppage time may add another minute or so however analysing stoppages so meticulously and pedantically is actually futile as it will never change unless we go down the real-time US route (as seen in basketball, Grid-iron and ice-hockey).
It’s better to just accept that that is the nature of the game as every team wastes time when it suits them; and we have done it ourselves on occasions in the near and distant pasts’!
@Reviewer 03:
I would be curious to know what was going on there as well.
Another thing I noticed…I was watching the game with Spanish commentary, and the Spanish commentators picked up on those no-call fouls against Arsenal.
Looking back, I think there were even more occasions than appear here where they yelled “foul!” And then followed with “Oh, no, he didn’t call it,” or something along those lines. This was mostly in the second half as well.
And I guess my only point in mentioning that is how interesting I found it to hear game commentary with a different spin than what we’re accustomed to from Sky. It really did make a difference in my perception of the match.
Anne,
Spanish football is nigh on a non-contact sport so what is clearly not a foul in the UK is invariably a foul in Spain! Esa es la naturaleza de su juego!
DC, and maybe that is why Spanish football is ruling the rest of the world for the moment?
Because they can impose and exercise their skill day in day out and so they can beat anyone at any time when they are up to it.
If only the Fa and the PGMO would realise this….
@DC:
Actually, the commentators in the match I was watching were Mexican.
just watching Cardiff-CPal in the CC. Looking one minute and the ref misses two blatant fouls and a yellow card…. Webb….
Walter,
Of course you’re correct but unfortunately we play in the British Isles; a different ethos that’s not going to change in it’s entirety soon!
Anne,
Sadly, I doubt that the Mexican league is as physically aggressive as that observed here in the British Isles and the commentators are used to it?!
According to popular opinion, Webb is rapidly becoming a joke since his World Cup final appearance!
He apparently had a bad game when officiating Citeh v Spuds. Missed, or decided not to act on, 2 blatant Citeh red cards for dangerous play!
DC, I must say that when we played Fulham and ref Probert was doing his job our match commentator from Belgium was shouting ‘foul’ time and time again and then saying: ‘oh he doesn’t give it”
And those match commentators do:
EPL
Bundesliga
Dutch league
Italian league
Spanish league
and yes… Belgium rubbish league 😉
So fair to say they know how football should be played in Europe.
But I remember in that game how often he was amazed about the ref not giving fouls on Arsenal players…
I’m sure we all know, but it’s always worth refreshing our memories, that Law 7 says the time allowed for stoppages is at the discretion of the referee, rendering discussions like the one above generally moot. “Referee’s discretion” is pretty much the *opposite* of saying that the the referee should precisely *track* the time lost.
… but then again, theguidance for Law 5 says “the referee must allow for the full amount of time lost through injury to be
played at the end of each period of play”, so is it at the discretion of the referee or not? Shrug.
That doesn’t surprise me Walter!
I really do believe now that the English Premier League officiating has to be the worst in Western Europe! Now one could say they miss so much because the game is faster here and has more physical contact but that’s just too simple an excuse and doesn’t justify it’s continuation!
Like I’ve thought before, a trial with some continental referees would be very informative!
Tell me, how you ever critically watched any of the Champions League matches that were between 2 EPL teams aside from Arsenal? How did that referee perform? I recall the Liverpool v Chelsea games and the Chelsea v ManU final but only recall one controversial incident in the first match-up which Chelsea and Morinhio complained about (and still do) but the ref and linesman were actually correct with their decision?!
I never did such a game in fact. Would be interesting to do…
The only problem is that in this CL it can only be Arsenal-Chelsea…
Let’s hope the chance to do so happens this season!
Great review 03, and thanks. Nelly Dean was better than usual but 10-2 in favour of ManU says it all. He never favours Arsenal in the wrong fouls category and that is statistically astronomical over 10 or more games. He should be sacked for the 5 minutes extra-time. That is a totally unacceptable bias that even a mathematically challenged FA official should be able to comprehend. He may not have cost us points this time but the nasty taste in the mouth and the feeling that football is spiralling out of control–gnawing at the pit of the stomach, is very much in evidence.
He did not seem to play sufficient extra time, wonder if he would have done if utd has not been winning! There again, this ref is supposed to have redknapp sympathies! Too complicated for me!
Is it just me or was wenger withering in his assessment of arshavin, comments like when asked if arshavin was to blame, he retorted….. ask him……and along the lines of why wouldnt I replace a tired kid with Russia’s captain?
Reading between some very bold lines, arshavin needs to up his game…
There is still hope, we have fresh players coming back, spuds have just had a demoralising defeat, and their key players have all played every, or almost every game. And then t here is st arry……..Chelsea are poor and old. Liverpool have spent all their money and do not look good.
A win against villa can be a start, but rvp, stay fit!
@DC January 24, 2012 at 9:59 pm
Chelsea Barcelona was the worst refereeing I have ever seen.
Cape gooner, yes you’re right but that referee was not from one of the big Western European leagues. Anyway, I really enjoyed what happened to Chelsea!
Mandy Dodd, all,
Would you agree we need adequate backup now to RvP or we’re sunk? And that we don’t have this in the pipeline, or at the African games? And what if RvP and Arteta are out simultaneously, that’s all she wrote. This is not doom-mongering; I love our club. This is EPL (spikes up) football and one half of our lifeline are injured in this moment (Arteta) whilst our talismanic other (RvP) has been injury-ridden up until (thank god) this season. Imo, even the blind can see this stand-pat as a reckless gamble; and the sighted seem to have their eyes wide shut.
Five more days in the x-fer window might come up with something like a loaner. Perhaps nothing can be done (- and neither I nor any one who has commented here part of the worldwide scouting system or the inside discussion). Arsene – countering Hill-Wood! – has said that a 4th place finish would be disastrous. Agreed, If nothing is done, well then, we will have witnessed that the priorities of AFC Management do not include a fourth-place finish by any means necessary (and, so, the consequent departure of RvP from our/any non-CL club). Are the business-side (fore)tasting the sale of RvP? Is quality football actually on some of their minds? Yes some injured difference-makers are coming back, but that seems somewhere over the rainbow (who knows how far Arteta, Wilshere, Sagna really are from match fitness, let alone being back in form)….
p.s. last note: if there is a split between Arsene and some others on the board over the prioritizing of a fourth-place finish, is it realy unthinkable that if this pushes RvP out the door that AW will find that he has no backing from this board on the pitch? Do you, fellow gooners, think that there is NOTHING to Hill-Wood saying 4th place doesn’t matter and Arsene’s coming out the next day and saying that no 4th place is a disaster? This moment, currently brushed back under the carpet, may well have proven a glimpse of a seismic shift to come.
@bob
Hill-Wood did not say it doesn’t matter. All he said was Arsenal can survive without it. Which is true, and true due to the board having budgeted for it. Perfectly reasonable statement because as chairman of the board his focus is on the financial side. Arsene Wenger’s focus is on the playing side and he has always maintained he wants to dine at Europe’s top table. Is there a rift? I don’t know. In some ways the two interests need to be compete. But I think we in today’s world manufacture rift where there is none. I don’t think there is a rift between Wenger and the board. Some disagreement more than likely. But that is part of a healthy debate. As on Untold.
need to compete*
Shard,
I’ll check his phrasing, but, in any case, there’s survival and there’s survival. Is that enough? I take little comfort in H-W’s use of the word, followed by Arsene’s indicating the next day that it would be a disaster. I don’t know if there’s a rift or not either. I pray not and we shall see. There is still a danger in what survival without RvP might hold in store and it feels reasonable to worry out loud about this massive potential loss. Do you feel we are covered if RvP goes down with an injury? Do you feel he’d stay if we drop out of the top 4? What would survival then mean if he’s gone?
bob
That someone else comes in. Besides, it’s the norm to classify it as a simple one to one calculation about RVP will leave if… we don’t buy star players, we don’t finish in the top 4, we don’t win a trophy, {insert your own reason}, I don’t think of it like that. Nor do I think does Robin. Decisions of this sort are as much about emotion as about a single reason as such. I hope he stays, but is there a guarantee he’ll stay if we’re top 4? I don’t know. I do know it’ll be a blow to lose Robin. It’ll be a blow to finish out of the top 4. But if PHW is pointing out that we won’t go bust, I fail to see the problem with that.
This is why I always come back here to see the truth in picture. Arsenal still has more wrong calls? I wouldn’t believe until I came here to read how you keep your analysis tight. Fans blame Arsène Wenger but forget that the biggest enemy we have are the referees. They have gang up against us and we are attacking the best man that has his heart for us. Despite the fact we lost I enjoyed the match and the spirit Arsenal played. I still believe there is a silver lining for us at the end of this campaign. I am a faithful.
For what it’s worth, Mike Dean spotted every foul against United, all 16 of them. The two calls that went against them were for one: not giving Song a yellow card, but he did give the foul, and two: a wrong offside decision by the linesman which eventually did not matter because Szczesny made the save.
Another interesting point is that Arsenal made 16 fouls to United’s 10. Contrast that to the recent past when United used a rotational fouling system on Cesc. In this match however they didn’t need to resort to constant fouling.
Its interesting to hear how so many people are having a discussion on RVP not to go. How times change, not so long ago they wanted RVP out because he was always bedridden and now he is a Hero!! Thanks to Prof Wenger he saw something as always.GOD forbid but if RVP gets injured then the Prof will bring you another genius. I could not believe my ears when the OX was being substituted;not so long ago they where asking the Prof how he can buy a young unknown kid for to much!! Now they do not need him to be taken off the field!! Arsene knows, lets give him the support as always we will be where we have been but this time around it will not be easy;when have it ever been easy in the long-run we will prevail.
@Kampala – how right you are. I clearly remember how after Wenger had signed Gervinho and Oxlade-Chamberlain, it was almost universally reported that Wenger hadn’t signed anybody yet, at least not made any real signings, so they claimed.