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Publication on July 20th: Woolwich Arsenal, the club that changed football.
The book that re-writes the Arsenal story.
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By Tony Attwood
Would you believe it? For weeks the papers have been telling us that Arsenal is more or less doomed as RVP is leaving. He is, in that quaint tabloid phrase, “want away Robin”.
I got rather fed up with this, and so the other day did a piece about how the Guardian in particular among the up-market press had gone on all out attack (not to mention an overload of “high alert”). Three articles in a row from what used to be my favourite paper, each telling us how Arsenal were doomed (“doomed, doomed we’re all doomed” they said, or was that Dad’s Army?). A bit much I thought.
And then, would you believe it (as I just said). First off the Daily Mail followed Anne’s story about the dubious nature of RVP’s web site and some inconsistencies in what happened. The Mail didn’t go into details but suggested that RVP’s agent was getting a bit ahead of himself and that RVP is going to stay at Arsenal. Being the Mail they couldn’t give Arsenal any rights to originality so they wrapped the story in a RVP is “considering doing a Rooney”.
Now we have the Telegraph and the Independent (both towards the more serious end of the newspaper world in England) changing their tune. Could they have read Untold? Well, probably not. We have a lot of readers these days and although I have got excited when Mr Wenger quoted us (twice) I think claiming to be influencing the thinking of the monoliths that are our newspapers, is pushing it.
But still, it is interesting. Here is the Independent’s take on Robin. He is leaving, and Arsenal will get between £20m and £25m. Van Persie wants a five-year contract worth in total £30m. That’s £120,000 a week to the likes of you and me; the regular folk who get amazed if we actually get paid each month.
Then the paper goes on to mention that his preferred option is Juve who, they remind us “are still recovering financially from their demotion to Serie B after the 2006 calciopoli scandal, and posted losses in their last published accounts of £75m for the 2010-11 season.”
I wonder if they got the emails that I got, telling me I knew nothing of Italian football when I elaborated on the same theme in my piece – oh yes, including those comments to the effect that Juve were innocent and it was a conspiracy by Inter to get Juve relegated. A nice clean league.
But then, and this is the bit that distances themselves from the AAA supporting Guardian – the Inde tells us Robin is 29 years old, with a “less-than-perfect injury record”. So having been the ultimate marquee player, as Mr Usmanov likes to let everyone know (and as most papers went along with because he really does have an excellent publicity machine), maybe Robin’s not really worth the fuss.
Then (and the change around is not over yet) along trots the Daily Telegraph who report that RVP and Arsène Wenger have had an “encounter”. What, we wonder, would they make of the disagreement “in many aspects … on the way Arsenal should move forward”.
They too then put in the journalistic boot. From being the player that everyone wants, the player that puts clubs on “high alert” in the Guardian’s funny phrase, the Telegraph says, “City appear to be the only club with the means to pay a massive fee and salary for a player with a questionable fitness record who turns 29 next month but there remain obstacles even for them. Their ranks are bloated with expensively paid strikers and they must sell some of them before they can consider a move for Van Persie, which will not be easy.”
Ignasi Miquel is still also being talked about as a loan out – maybe Brighton and Hove. (That’s Talk Sprot again.) And the Metro said we are going to buy Stefan Jovetic who plays as a number 10 for Fiorentina (84 games) and Montenegro and is compared to Roberto Baggio.
Anyway, back to the main thrust, the papers have taken their positions. The Guardian says Arsenal are ruined, a disaster, falling apart, useless etc etc. The other two say, actually with those sort of wage demands and his injury record maybe Arsenal have done the right thing and should sell him quick. The Mail says we are about to re-sign him and Talk Sprot dribbles quite a bit.
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- Stoke City and the referees. An extraordinary situation.
- Some matches in the Premier League are fixed. Discuss
- Scottish football eats itself
- The QPR figures: quite a strange set of data
- Who played for Arsenal in the opening games – and what does it tell us?
- What was it like in the crowd – at Arsenal 100 years ago
- Football is back, at last
- Ref Review: Team by Team – West Bromwich Albion
- Mikel:the anchor in midfield
- Celebrating 120 years of the Anti-Arsenal Arsenal
He’s a disgrace to the club. The value of club means more than just winning. We’ve seen big clubs going down even Liverpool.
I don’t mind going through this difficult time Because I support Arsenal’s vision.
We won’t be suffered for long, Gooners!
I think Arsenal FC needs to power up their own media to stand against the English media. what the media are doing is not only damage Arsenal brand image in England, but also around the world and the confused Arsenal fans to accept every attack.
Somehow some their articled dis-encourage new generation around the world from supporting Arsenal.
I think Arsenal as a brand should do something about it.
This whole RVP saga is not going to end untill RVP signs with a team putting forward a huge dough, and also worthy enough for RVP’s so-called “ambition”. Juve is in financial hardship and the max they have come is £8 million. Mancini does not seem interested at all. Neither barca nor real need RVP. Ancelotti already made it clear he does not want RVP. The only team keeping quiet is MANUre. MANUre boss has already indicated he is still not done with signings. So it all boils down to either wenger distributing “mozarellas” or RVP and Rooney playing side by side.
Hoping again, this sillines i.e. RVP transfer saga ends as abruptly as it started.
If RVP does indeed leave it represents the final unravelling of the Wenger Grand Plan …. flat wage structure / beautiful passing, movement and technique / nil tactics / poor defence. It can’t be done … and that’s why some of the other top players have left.
I think Arsenal Fc have to do something about the English media and tell them to stop talking what ever they did not see and first they have to choose the media that will be carry Arsenal News around and not Media because is like they really want to make readers Fool this days
It staggers me how few people credit top players with an ambition to win trophies and medals before their career ends. To some money is everything, I agree. But to others (who are blindingly rich already) of course they want to win things. And too many top playewrs have long since realised that Wenger’s Grand Plan does not work. He won loads early on … when he inherited perhaps the best defence the English League has ever seen. Since then … nothing.
Chris,
The Invincibles defence was NOT inherited!
Lehman, Lauren, Campbell, Toure, Cole was the backbone in defence. ALL Wenger buys!
Tony
Good article and the way you put it it makes complete sense not to re-sign him.
Obviously the figures being shouted around are pure speculation but they nevertheless seem normal for a player of his talent to be asking for.
I to wouldnt want Robin signed to such a contract, i always wonder why we dont get more creative with our contracts in football like baseball or nfl in terms of front or backloading them.
I think where many gooners are upset is that its another summer where we appear to be doign just enough to keep our head over water. Podolski is a great signing as is Griroud but giroud more than likely is as a replacement to rvp. That still leaves us a striker short. Why on earth have we still got a number of players on the books who are clogging up wages………..o right its because the clubs policy of hugely overpayign these players has had a horrible affect on the club.
Why has nothing been done to sort out our average defense. we go on tour this week.
The mismanagement by the front office is happening again.
I’m being pedantic but Wenger didn’t buy Cole..
In fact he was a silvinho (yes, he spelt it with an I instead of Y back then) dodgy passport away from being sold to Crystal Palace!
Anyway, great read!
For those who like to put the dots on the i:
The players that played most in the invincible era were all brought to the team under Wenger. There was not an inherited player. So apart from a youngster, a Wenger buy, a free transfer, a Wenger buy and another Wenger buy, he build that defence.
Silvinho would have made it 5 Wenger buys than. Apart from Sol who came on a free 😉
Walter
He did indeed create that wonderful defense, but he inherited his first one and we’ve had what can only be described as an average to poor defense for the last 5-6 years or 1 third of his reign.
The fact is our defence has gotten worse each of the last 5 seasons and that sir is after him saying each summer that our defense must get stronger.
If we lose RVP the best way of us seeing no drop off in terms of points is sorting out the defensive system of the team. We have excellent individual defenders the issue arises in that despite playing this way for 4 years the squad have been utterly incapable of applying some of its major tenets with any form of consistency.
Dortmund have conceded 47 domestic goals the last 2 years and Barca 50 in that time we have conceded 92. Both try to play the same high line pressure game. The difference is their midfields and attacks work together and much much much much much harder on a more consistent basis. Its our coaching teams job to sort that out and that means from now.
Its important to see improvements happenign in pre season
Walter, Cole was not a Wenger buy he up through the ranks of the academy.
The only people who said there was a Wenger vision or style or approach are the people who write the papers. I have not heard Mr Wenger speak in these terms.
What fools so many people is his flexibility. He invented world-wide scouting, but knew it would come to an end. He took up the link with Beveren (sorry Walter if I have spelled it wrong once again) and let it go when need be, only to create a revised version with Lorient.
He created the youth project, but never without buying players in.
Just look at the young players coming through now. Some, some supporters dont like, such as Jenkinson – but that is just a reminder of how many players take a year to bed down. Pires and Henry were examples – there were many more. For every player who slotted straight in (Vieira) there are three or four who took time.
But consider: Jack W; Oxland-C; Ramsey; Gibbs; Francis Coquelin; Jenkinson, Kyle Bartley; Ryo; Craig Eastmond; Kyle Ebecilio; Henri Lansbury; Chuks Aneke; Damian Martinez; Ignasi Miquel
They won’t all make it. Some will lose form, some will be injured, some will do a Bentley and think they are better than they are. But that is an incredible array of young talent, and some of them will make it through over the coming years, and they are all with our club now.
That is a Wenger project.
Nico Yennaris; Thomas Eisfeld; Sanchez Watt…
Tony
Whats the use if they all leave to reach their potential.
Walcott is just starting to show signs over the last year or so of becoming an excellent winger, in all probability he will be off.
Wilshere quotes from last year make it very clear that he is happy at arsenal ”at the moment”.
You talk of the manager flexibility but what you say is pure speculation how on earth are you saying he invented worldwide scouting how on earth can you say he invented the feeder club what are you basing that on??
Lets look at his flexibility in terms of tactics? Would you say that our manager can adapt and be flexible or is he light years behind many of his rivals on this front
Suddenly RvP absence from catalog is “crown evidence” Arsenal has give up. Well, Nasri and Clichy were well pictured last season in both kits and they still left.
Does Arsenal really need RvP?
And will RvP 2013 be worth of RvP 2012?
That are questions papers should more be worried about, rather than writing same thing last two weeks. In a fact it is not “the same thing” only since “update for the fans”, we are bombarded with it last 6-7 seasons, just names are different and occasions are different, story is the same.
Great article Tony
I see it has attracted a few of the doom and gloom readers to this site.
Wenger regardless of the fact he hasn’t won a trophy in the last 6 years, has worked a minor miracle to keep our club competing at the business end of the premier league. That’s despite losing some key players for various reasons, whether it be thro
By the way which other news should people talk about apart from my beloved ARSENAL? Which news,anybody there let me know.@oldtoilet,@chelski, spunks or manshity i mean as always, season after season its only at the Arsenal that’s where there is NEWS.
Tony & The Untold Team,
Thanks for your depth, focus and persistent logic in the face of shallow, confused and knee-jerk reaction by majority of the British press and some Arsenal fans/blogs.
It is understandable that the pressis obliged to be shallow and sensational in order to sell their papers but what I fail to understand is why some Arsenalfans/blogs allow themselves to be suckered everytime when, in case after case, we have seen that the true picture after the dust settles is never as dire as the press would have us believe.
I believe Wenger/Arsenal handled the latest RvP matter more creditably than last year: our win/win position is:
a. RvP stays on mutually agreed terms or if that fails,
b. He leaves at as close to the terms set up front by the club as possible.
Meanwhile, a short-term replacement with potential to blossom in his own right is already in place…
GOOD THINKING. GOOD MANAGEMENT.
Shevo
”has worked a minor miracle”
See thats where the fanatical akb just get it plain wrong.
Look at our points totals in all bar 5 of those years they are right around the saem level that Aaaary achieved at spurs with nearly a 45% reduced wage bill.
With a mega wage bill liek we have we should be getting for 70-75 points.
If manager ever actually got a title challenge out of us on a consistent basis that would be a miracle. The teams with more money nearly always finish well above us apart from when they ”disasterous” years.
We finish where we should finish. If youw ant to go see a manager performing miracles go look at fergusun and their wage bill of 10m more than us.
When RVP wins the each of or two of epl /FA /cl and the gunners win nothing,it will hard to be a gunner fan. Of course this is not 100% assured.Similarly the gunners can cause a surprise but the odds are long.
As for the gunners,the defence has been a pale shadow of the famous five. I don’t know but unless Bould does something spectacular to make the defence more solid,it will be the sos ie same old story. A poor defence causes the gunners games. How many times have we heard that?
It’s about time the gunner defence can deal with set pieces and corners and deny the opposition goals. Otherwise the gunners will be better with another manager who knows how to make the defence hard to beat.
Food for thought, however by definition newspapers can hardly take a position when that changes minute by minute depending upon the latest rumour or snippet blown out of all proportions. Pinch of salt required with most statements and nothing the rags say will destroy the Arsenal name in my view. Reacting to adverse comments by the press and suggesting that Arsenal suffer more than other big clubs in this respect is daft. Most with a brain can see these articles are mostly manufactured from supposition, imagination, possibility, and a little truth. How many times have we all seen the massive headline and read on hoping for some truth or resolution and end up with nothing tangible. Heysus!! people get good money for writing the crap. As for RVP..if he really wanted to he could follow DB’s example and sign a new deal that Wenger would regularly review and renew. The bottom line unlike DB is RVP does not see Arsenal as potential trophy winners and how much longer will Wenger be going on for?.
I still don’t understand all this about Wengers plan is not working. Wenger is part of the plan and simply following his EMPLOYERS wishes, he is not the creator of the ‘plan’, that is the job of the Directors. We have had a new majority shareholder come on board who could at any moment have decided, he doesn’t want to continue with Wenger as part of his plan, he decided to keep Wenger as Wenger fits well with his ‘plan’
Shakabula Gooner
nobody is saying its a disaster, what the majority of the arsenal fanbase wants is the club to do better and actually challenge.
To do that we need some continuity. People say we cant afford 200k wages but thats absolute rubbish. we have a wage bill of 130m its our choice to spend huge amounts on players who play very very little for us.
People talk of arsene like he is jesus but in reality he is doing a decent job no more no less. People cite finishing 3rd as incredible but in reality he presided over a 2 point invpovement than the previous season which was a 7 point reduction in the season before. There in no upward trajectory and thats what the manager needs to sort out.
He needs to stop hearing how wonderful he is by the board and his underperforming players and start going about making arsenal a side that doesnt lose 1 in 4.
If rvp leaves fine. Ther only thing that matters is that our incredibly well paid manager gets significant improvement out of the side. If our wage structure doesnt allow us to do that then we need to change it. 130m gets you a long long way if you dont waste half of it
lol @ “People talk of arsene like he is jesus but in reality he is doing a decent job no more no less. People cite finishing 3rd as incredible but in reality he presided over a 2 point invpovement than the previous season which was a 7 point reduction in the season before.”
Meanwhile, in reality, we finished 3rd… 1 better than 4th and 1 better than Tottenham managed by the wonderful Aaaary – who got sacked.
Upper Street Gooner
I don’t consider Shevo to be wrong. Arry only did it for one year and never managed to get back in. Now no one knows if he could have sustained it.
Wenger isn’t Jesus, I’ve seen Wenger biting his nails and he does it differently.
Stuart, now he’s got something to chew on 😉
Dogface
The issue with your statement is that it doesn’t take any notice as to how arsene did compared to aaaarry. We finished one point ahead of them with a wage bill of over 45m higher than them.
Since Aaaaary took over when they were bottom in without any of his own player both manager have presided over 106 prem games. In that time arsenal have accumilated 11 more points than Aaaary despite a wage bill that on average has been 45m pounds higher per year.
So when you go spouting how incredible our manager is and what an incredible job he has done go look at the actual facts. The facts tell you that in the same space of time aaary did a much better job considering his resources, and yes he did get sacked. The act that our maanger was on 3m more does him or your arguments no good.
I love our manager but im not blinded by that. He needs to improve his performance considerably as he is no longer creating miracles 2004-08, he is now doign what a club of our size should be doing but he is paid like he should be doing more. he keeps missing with opportunities presented to us in the transfer market. Notice i say opportunity. When we lose players but fill the coffers it presents an opportunity. 2009 we failed miserably with the toure and ade money. The money was spent on 17 new first team contracts to players many of whom arent at the club.
Stop delluding yourself. The team isnt improving on a year to year basis which should be the bare minimum.
@BobbyP/Upper Street Gooner
You spin negativity like Rumplestiltskin – any angle you can find, you’ll find it and then stamp it with your ‘reality’.
3rd is one better than 4th I reckon… anyone else think that?
how frustrating is it when people leave out or are not aware of many aspects in their argument but still believe their right.
ak47,
I think some people fear being happy.
They are happy when they are unhappy….
Dogface
No mate i just actually looking at the situation in more detail than you.
We after all only finished one place below Utd last year who finished level on points with the champions
In reality that was 19 points back.
Spurs over 38 games were only 1 point worse than us and some would say an abject keeping performance in the last game form actually finishing above us.
Thats the level arsenal were at last year we were one point better than a club with a much much lower wage bill than us.
If the club wants to challenge this year it needs to be getting into the mid 80s. Its achievable if you believe but here is the thing akb dont belive. To them everything is impossible becuase of the money at city. Utter tosh go look how dortmund do against Bayern who have a similar wage bill to city. The manager must do better…simples
You see – there you go again:
“some would say an abject keeping performance in the last game form actually finishing above us.”
In your world Spurs finished above us – is the fact that Arsenal finished one place better than they did last season too simple for you to grasp? Why are you trying to convince us that up is left and black is right?
Some would say that some abject referee performances during the season actually kept Spurs close to us…
Dogface
Keep glossing over it mate all you like but the fact is the miracle job that some keep talking about actually isn’t the case whatsoever. Considering our resources to finish below spurs last year considering the declining performance in previous years should quite rightly have led to some serious questions being answered by the manager about his future.
Its unacceptable to not improve significantly this coming season. The manager needs to do a much better job of convincing players that they can achieve significanlt things at arsenal. We can afford to pay big wages if we didn’t waste so much of our wages. For every kid we buy in who is good we there a 3-4 more who fail. Our wonderful youth system is actaully the city of that level. we collect kids at great cost.
Glossing over what exactly?
Arsenal = Champions League
Tottenham = Channel 5
I think it is you who is, well… trying to – ‘matt emulsion’ over that.
Walter
Excuses excuses. Its about time our club stopped crying about everything its becoming pathetic for the rest of the world.
Even if there were poor referee performances there were many many more of our own which led to us being in the position we were in.
It about time our manager developed an environment where players took account for their own performances rather than blame everyone else.
If it not the ref its the pitch if its neither of those 2 its another and dont forget that media conspiracy against us. Its so pathetic that Stuart Robson is deemed the devil by some for pointing out that fact that we are inept at defending.
In no other walk of life would this type of excuse making be tolerated, if your kids did it after continually failing exams they would be grounded or you would change schools
lol @ “inept” – I just need “dead wood” before I call Troll Bingo!
Dogface, Upper Street Gunner is certainly NOT looking at the situation in more detail!
To compare The Arsenal with the team on the wrong side of Tottenham, is ludicrous.
The Arsenal run a Reserve Team, an Academy (Hale End)and a Ladies Team (Borehamwood location). Emirates is far larger than WHL and more staff required. London Colney has been up and running for 10 years, and the WHL has still “teething problems”.
Simply stated, The Arsenal employ far more people than the Upper Street Gunner seems to be aware of.
In simple terms, ignore the LMF, Low Moral Fibre supporters!
Dogface
Do you care about the club getting better?
Yaaaaay we finished above spurs by one point despite the huge disparity in resources.
I couldnt careless about that. I want us looking up at that 19 point gap and closing it. And yes it can 100% be done but that will only happen if we admit that we arent doing as well as we can.
The defense is tragically bad and has been for years and yet i hear our manager say ”we actually have the best defense from open play” utter tosh and the only people who listened was the akb. Our pressure game is woeful and everyone knows it. If we wamt to improve it must be drilled into the players. We haev some wonderful defenders and yet the lack of work rate form midfield and attackers at applying defensive pressure isa sin and you dont have to have worked half a day in football to tell anybody that
Stewart Robson again crapping over Arsenal and Wenger on TalkSport. How he is with Arsenal ffs. Someone need to cut the snake head.
Oh right – here we go… pointing out the facts of the matter equates to my weakness – in that I now don’t “care” enough to critisise the fuck out of the club at every opportunity and/or get on board with those that do.
OK then – in your reality – I don’t “care” enough.
Happy?
Notoverthehill
Correct.
Yes we do have more staff working at our stadium i would love to know how much of a dent in the 45m that makes but i wouldnt say that much.
Lets say 150 staff.
8 hours for 2 days a week
20pph
2.5m in total
I still find it amazing when akb argue about our substantial wage bill considering how hard we find it to sell average squad players….your living in lala land.
What it also forgets is that Utd are a bigger club than us with more staff and there wage bill is only 10m more than us and yet there performance on the pitch is significanlty better than us.
Its tosh, our own ceo said our wage bill is skewed in the wrong direction but becuase the manager decided to pay these guys so much we cant do anything to change it.
I think the answer to all our problems is kicking the ball higher in the air… Seriously we have to find something like Stoke with the long throw.
So we need to find a player or a keeper who can kick the ball as high as the roof of the Emirates. If we do that we would get more time to position ourselves on the field. At the mean time someone has to distract the referee a bit so he doesn’t see Giroud holding his defender. Maybe a player could shout at the ref: Oh, did you see the ball just missed that pigeon as it will result in the ref looking in the air and not to the players on the field.
Call me stupid, but don’t say I don’t have refreshing ideas…
Don’t worry be happy…
Dogface
No its just people like have little interest in seeing the club get better becuase for you we are already performing to our zenith.
The club must start getting better plain and simple. There are no excuses for the defense not getting significanlty better and there are no excuses for the club not improving on points total.
Notice i say points total as that to me matter more. If chels overtake us this year then so be it we cant so anything about their resources. What we can do is concentrate ourselves and aim to get better.
That starts with havign a long cold hard look at where we need to get better. If one were to do this they would see that we have had the same bloody problems for 3-4 years with different personel.
1)We are on the whole a very poor defensive team considering the amount of time the opposition have the ball, this has been the case for years and its been getting worse every year.
2) we have very little to zero tactical felxibility
3) we fail to apply a well thought out hardworkign pressure system thats imperative when playing a high line.
If you aksed yourself these questions for the last 4 summers you would have had the same answers and that is utterly pathetic for a club that pays a manager top dollar. He must get better at his job and that in turn will improve us.
He needs to be stopped being told that he has a job for life and actually told that the board expect a significant improvement on last years poor performance
@Upper Street Gooner – you are just embarassing yourself now mate… why are you here exactly?
Dear Walter, not ‘at the mean time’ ‘in the mean time.’ I like your chips and we like your chocolate. 🙂
Dogface
Such a common thing for an akb to say. Just gloss over the facts go on do it again. You would prefer to talk about miracle jobs rather than the fact that you dont have to be a miracle worker to get 70 points in the prem.
Do you want arsenal to be in a title race past sept this year
Lets hope the manager listens to some people this summer and improves our woeful defense.
Like i said RVP leaving wont be important if the manager earns his wage at the other end of the pitch
@Upper Street Gooner You should send Wenger an email – I’m sure your in-depth knowledge and analysis would be a total revelation to him!
Colario,
what a mistake to make
I actually started writing first ‘at that moment…’ but wanted to look smarter and well… oh well…. 😉
Dogface
There are any number of experts who have worked many more than a day in football who say the same. They are the ones who the akb call c^nts and tw^ts for questioning their great leader.
The only strange things is that the manager didnt question himself more after conceding 43 goals the year before last. This summer i hope watched every dortmund and barca game of the last 2 years and took allot of notes. Better managed sides im afraid particularly in dortmund case
He cant be gooner in the last 7 years.
He has missed our title challenge in 2007-2008 and the one in 2010-2011 on both occasions a bit hampered by some dodgy ref decisions which are of course to be neglected. I think he probably will now say: it evens out.
He also missed us playing in 3 finals in those years and a few semi finals… He missed seeing us beat Barcelona and then missed the busacca-moment…
And all that with a shit manager who knows nothing about tactics, with shit players…
as Tony said it: we are doomed, we are doomed, doomed I tell you…
@Upper Street Gooner – Like I said, pop it in an email and address it to Mr. Wenger… I’m not sure he reads this blog to be honest – and if he did, I doubt that he would trawl through all the comments.
Yeah, Dortmund much better managed team in a league where there is no place for multi millionaires who can just throw their money around.
Better managed? That is why we beat Dortmund last season once and they could score a goal in stoppage time otherwise we would have won both games. In fact it was a master stroke of the manager Klopp. All game he shouted ‘keine tore machen jetzt’. Until the extra time and then he shouted: ‘Jetzt’ and then they scored.
That must have been the most brilliant managerial performance of the last decade I think. Because by leaving it that late we couldn’t hit back. Brilliant indeed…
Walter
Let us be clear i dont think our manager is shit i think he has been wonderful to us but has done no better of job in the last 3 years that numerous other manages could have done for us. I certainly dont think a different manager would have been played as badly as aw was last year in the summer.
2007-8 was a good year for us but let us be clear we bottled it after eduardo and collapsed. This has happened repeatedly since and yet i would here you make excuse after excuse.
The team are allowed to make excuses as that is what the manager does.
The team cant defend as they pay zero attention to what the opposition might do.
Its embarrsing to hear cesc talk of our training compared to spain
We will start getting better when our manager regains his form or when he steps upstairs. Unitl then nothing will happen.
Walter
hahahahahahahahahahahahah
yup as they didnt beat us into the ground in Dortmund. They smashed us it would have been the luckiest win or point earned since csk moscow did the same to us a few years ago.
Dortmund are a team built on significanlty less resources than us they managed to win their league by beating a team with a wage bill like city. Not only that they won the double this year thats one title off the great aw and yet he has been there for 11 years less. He is fighting against a bigger financial disparity.
Why dont you flip on eurosport or espn and go watch dortmund consistently defend like a team and then go watch us.
lol @upper street gooner — “Lets hope the manager listens to some people this summer and improves our woeful defense.”
It’s like you’re copy-pasting a rant from summers past! “I can’t believe Wenger won’t splash the cash for Mark Schwartzer! We have no keepers worthy of the shirt! Etc etc.” Throw out goals-against figures all you like, but you won’t be able to convince me to blame goals scored on Armond Traore, still-settling Carl Jenkinson, on our first-team squad.
Rusty
hahah another fallacy from an akb the whole keeper situation. He wanted to leave as he was 4th choice and yet injries forced the manager to pick him. Dont forget we lost a cup final this same year due to the inexperience of this keeper. Pretty crucial cup final to have lost who knows who we might have kept if we wont the cup.
You see your mentioning of traore and jenkinson is a good one as it highlights the managers lack of flexibility.
We were ruined by injuies and starting rookies what did the manager do?????????????????????
He told our team to go and play our game, yup thats what he did he made ZERO allowances for our teams plight and we consequintly got slaughtered.
The same was true of tv5 and djourou playing at lb and rb. the manager tried to get the same game out of them as he would a full back. remember that home loss to Utd where our djouou was playing right wingback first half against nani, why in god name did our manager not tell him to concentrate on defending it was utterly disgraceful management
“Pretty crucial cup final to have lost who knows who we might have kept if we wont the cup”
He’s joking. Right!
So if we had won the Carling Cup we would have probably kept Cesc, Nasri and Robin would have already signed a new long term contract.
I have no doubt every single football player no matter which team they play for have their own agenda when it comes where they will ply their trade next.
Let’s get real. You maybe the biggest Arsenal fan/player but if someone offers you double your wages or play for your Home town team then it’s down to that individual to decide what’s more important. Loyalty going Home or MONEY.
I think we all know what most people would choose.
If Arsenal were winning the league every other year, or a cup. Do you not think the top players would then be banging on the Managers door demanding to be paid more since they were winning everything.
They’d still be off to the next bid signing on bonus.
Unlike USG I don’t care who the Boss puts out I’ll support them regardless.
That’s because I’m a supporter.
GOONER FOR LIFE!
@WalterBroeckx
July 17, 2012 at 3:02 pm
Be carefull now. One more mistake like that and we will have the AAA brigade after you. 🙂
Paul
Hmm so your suggesting that winning the cup would have still led to horrific collapse from the side.
Do you not think that that collapse had any affect on those players leaving.
You would be amazed at what a trophy can do to galvanize a squad and a fanbase.
@Upper Street Gooner
Yeeee you are right, look what 100 mil and CC win did to Liverpool, they got galvanize sky high!
Borussia ending up last in CL group stage, showing no international exp, no tactical flexibility outside their league is prof for you that they are better managed club from better manager ? With that logic Montpellier manager is best manager ever,this is same crap people posted 2 years ago, praising Boas as second coming of Jesus.
He’s right you know – look what that victory has done for Birmingham FC.
…
…
Well?
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What’s wrong with the Championship?
I have just looked at the shots of RVP on .com in Arsenal training gear and it should really bring serious bids to the table. If there are genuine suitors out there, they need to break cover and make themselves known. Unless the club gets offered between £30 – £50m, we should keep RVP. The player has most definately lost the captaincy (I think it’s gone to Arteta)and automatic starting spot. The valuation is the hedge against us weakening our attack and strengthening our competitor.
As it is, because of his statements, I still think he should be made to stay and not be allowed to manipulate his way out the club. It would also send out a strong message to others who might dare do the same to AFC. In terms of football, in my opinion RVP has to play out of his skin for his next big contract and to even be picked. Going on strike would just do his image/brand even further damage (he worked very hard to reinvent himself from bad boy to the respectable family guy). Pretending to be injured won’t work either as a player with his injury record and age, it would just work against him in the long run and put off suitors. Of course the middle east and China would offer him a big pay day regardless, but I wonder if he want’s one last international hurrah, in the form of the 2014 Brazil WC. I would be very suprised if he was picked for Holland playing in any of those leagues.
Personally I am not having excuses made for the player, he did what he did, he deserves the slating and backlash that comes his way. He weighed up the pro’s and con’s and decided he could roll with the punches. Whilst I don’t hate RVP, I certainly feel differently towards the player. The best way forward for him now is to deliver on the pitch, which is a win-win situation for all.
@ Upper Street Gooner,
Wish my foresight was as good as your hindsight 😉
Everyone agrees ( I hope ) That Henry is without a doubt the best modern day player Arsenal has had. He stood up on the plane back from the CL final and pledged his future to the club. He still left the following season. He then went on to win the CL.
Would he have stayed if we had won the CL? Who knows. Only he does.
I think Walter recently worked out that his time at Barcelona cost them @ 1/2 million per game.Did they regret buyinh him/ Again who knows.
Did he go there on less wages just to win a trophy? Definately not. He got a better wage deal. Shock horror. He is currently the highest paid MLS player since Beckham took a wage cut to stay at LA. Is Henry there to win trophies? Or play in a higher league?
Again I think we all know the answer. He’s nearing the end of his career and he’s getting all that he can out of the game before he retires. Good luck to him. Still one of the classiest players I been lucky enough to see play for Arsenal.
You go on about how many points we were behind City last season. Didn’t they win the league last season only because the scored a goal with all most the very last kick of the ball? Wow! There’s 1/2 a billion pound well and truely spent wisely.
Would you prefer Arsenal was run like that. Buy whoever is the latest thing, then when it doesn’t work buy some more and keep on buying until you get it right.
No thanks.
I do believe truly that Arsene Wenger is the best Manager in the EPL and we are indeed lucky to have him there.
Be careful what you wish for. It might just come true.
If you really believe that he isn’t up to the job anymore then please apply for it yourself. I’m sure you’d be GREAT and we’d win everything and everybody on this and every other Arsenal website would be happy.
GOONER FOR LIFE.
£30m for a player who for 80% of the time will be over 30….can you tell me the secret of being over 30 only 80%of the time Tony? If you could patent that you’d be rich!
@chris from Cambridge: Just stay in cambridge and shut your stupid mouth, please.
@Upper Street Gooner: “Whats the use if they all leave to reach their potential.” – Leave to reach what potential? Some examples, please? (Hint: Hleb? Flamini? Henry? RVP? Hahaha, RVP?)
“Lets look at his flexibility in terms of tactics?” – He used all and every kinds of tactics that ever have been in this stupid world, from solid defence to mighty attack, except the “kicking everyone on the field not wear the same shirt like you” tactic that people LOVE to use against Arsenal and always get away with it. He used all and every formations that ever have been in this stupid world, from 4-4-2 to 4-3-3 to 4-2-2-1-1 to etc. and etc. All of that for WINNING things for you God-damn-moron-fans who always think you know better than him. The day I’m really happy is the day I don’t have to begin with reading your stupid moaning. Really. You ruined my day, and I cursed you for that.
To help your limited imagination, let’s just say that compares with the scumbag called Jose Morinho (or something like that), AW tactic genius is just about zillion times better.
Some comments on this site cannot stop to amaze me! First people say that AW have only done good with the defense that was here when he came. And then when some point out that the none of those were the backbone of the invincibles they say that he didnt BUY Ashley Cole, that he was already in out youth team. YES!!! Thats the whole policy of AW, to use our young player, to get them slowly into the side, thats what i like about Arsenal and Arsene. We make our own stars! And u cannot have it both ways, if u had another manager back then, who knows maybe Ashley Cole wouldnt have been a Champions League winner! And on a 2nd note, just heard on the news here back in Norway, that there was a new record made in football today, Zlatan Ibrahimovic has set a new record for been the player sold for most money as a footballer ever, anyone wanna guess who had the record before him ? Nicolas Anelka, who made him ?
If a player wants away let him go. Keeping an unhappy player is as good as having no player at all. Great players have left before, the invisible left, but Arsenal leaves on. What is the fuss about RVP?
@ upper street…
Why compare only Spurs wage bills with us? Why dont you add Chelsea and Liverpool to that list?? Why only look at wage bills? Why dont you look at the total financial figure??
Szczesny was the fourth choice then, agreed. BUT he was the next big thing here. THATS what kept us away from signing another goalkeeper.
Carling Cup victory would have only made the departures of Cesc and Nasri easy (for the players of course)….If you were a regular reader here, you would have known how winning titles did not keep Viera from asking for a transfer every year…..
I dream of a day when we have 11 players on the field who have come up trough our youth set up. THAT would be the victory of ARSENAL.
@Goona Gal
Keeping a player who wants away, and has made that known publically in the way RVP has, can only be bad for morale inside the club. Even if he does continue to do his best for the remainder of his contract every performance will be under the microscope and every missed goal and misplaced pass will be analysed in the light of his situation.
It would also create a precedent for other younger players that the avenue of playing out their contract is one the club is prepared to go along with.
@ Stroller, at this point, bad for whose morale inside the club? After what RVP said publicly and his forthright character, I am sure he has said his piece to other players already anyway. Song, Theo and Vermaelen were his close allies and how the club deals with this situation will set the tone for future contract discussions with them. RVP is no longer top dog anymore witin the dressing room or at the club or with fans. There is a way to do business and Arsenal FC cannot come off looking like the weaker party in this scenario with RVP.
I agree that everything he does will be under the microscope, but then I don’t see much difference from what went on last season with every touch led to discussions about his contract. The difference was that no one publicly knew what his intentions were and now we do. The stress and pressure has shifted away from the club and more on to RVP.
I don’t care about the commentary surrounding RVP, I just care about his performance on the pitch. Questions will be asked of his proffessional attitude if plays badly, If he is injured real or imagined, it works against him. Every bad touch he makes questions his mental ability to overcome pressure. The owness is on RVP to deliver. He has managed to quickly evaporate a lot of the emotional capital he had as our former captain, length of time at the club and reduced his claim to being Arsenal’s No.1 to nothing. His shadow over the club has been markedly reduced.
In any event, why should’nt players see out the end of their contracts? I want to see Arsenal to take a tougher line with players in the future though, especially those who make it clear that they will not be resigning or string the club along. The club should if possible identify replacements and introduce them earlier into the set up (25 man rule permitting). I expect players to honour their commitments. It’s a big risk for the player to refuse to be sold as well, because if they refuse to be sold insisting on leaving as a free agent, they may end up playing in the reserves and out of sight out of mind. I believe the same principal exists in the real world as it does for footballers, it’s easier to get new employment if you are in a job, than if you are out of work.
Picking up where I left off – on the right topic( before I am told off)…
50p from Man U (or something ridiculously low), £8m from Juve, £12m from Man C…these are ego deflating bids for RVP. None from spain?? No wonder AW made it known that he wanted serious bids out in the open and on the table. Considering we sold Toure for £18m when his legs had clearly gone, £12m from Man C is quite funny really. It’s a bid that says that we wanted you when we thought it would hinder and undermine Arsenal, but now they have strengthened early, the truth is we don’t really care anymore, we have enough troublesome misfits here. It’s a bit embarassing even.
As for Sir red nose, he seems like he is trying to wrestle the limelight back from Arsenal. He has gone from being very tight lipped to being an unstoppable outspoken gossip. Oh how the mighty have fallen, in the case of Man U they can’t even put together a respectable bid. With the lowball bids, it’s a genuine opportunity for broke Man U to get one over on Man C and gloat to AW and Arsenal fans that he took our top striker, but they have no money and can no longer attract star players. Ol’ red nose has to buy someone now that he has let the world know he is in the transfer market or he will make Man U look like they can’t work attract top players or work the window properly.
I didn’t actually believe that RVP might be doing a Rooney before, but now I actually think he was and this situation has blown up in his face. He has gone from being the highly valued jewel reluctantly prised away from Gooners across the globe because of lack of ambition to being a career rescue case. I would suggest he takes a pay cut in order to facilitate a move away and win trophys as he is staring at the abyss right now. It seems that there aren’t too many clubs that think RVP is worth it and RVP’s inflated head is belatedly deflating. All contract offers from Arsenal need to be formally withdrawn and this is no longer about money – it’s about respect. I actually would’nt want him to re-sign with us for another 3yrs now. Stick him in reserves, dock his wages at the first sign of insolence.
Despite what media eejits are saying, this doesn’t feel like the same as last year simply because we as fans know where we stand with Robin, through his statement. With Cesc and Nasri there was a lot of poker playing, especially with Nasri who indicated he was going to stay for the most part. This time round the club took action and have strengthened early, we are openly listening to offers for Robin and whilst I am saddened, I am strong enough to not let it affect me. I can still remember a season with just an unproven Adebayor because RVP was injured, I remember us relying on Bentner because RVP was injured, I remember us depending on Chamakh because RVP was injured.
People really need to take a step back and breathe. Unless your a new fan of 18 months or less, there is no need to stress, we have done without him for many, many years. What’s clear is that RVP was never going to be relied upon this coming season, he was never going to be the focal point either. The grass isn’t always greener and I already refer to RVP in past tense, like ‘he was popular with the fans, he used to be one of the most respected players in the league, etc. I have moved on, people who can’t handle the crazy media and/or RVP’s act of treachery should probably take a step back.
Goona Gal, I notice that Arsene Wenger is playing up Giroud and saying he is a big, strong centre forward. I think this bears out the points you make. Of course, he is also still saying he wants to keep Van Persie, but not in any tone of desperation.
I think arsene saying he wants to keep vp is a bit of a show or a poker face maybe. He could just be trying to bring his price up by not seeming too desperate to sell him. Then again if vp does do a complete 180 and realize the error of his ways I don’t think arsene would mind
My comment was to Pat, sorry forgot to mention
@ Pat, I noticed that AW kind of confirmed what Gilles Grimandi said too. They did their homework and brought in cover. Giroud just needs an acclimatisation period, 12 months should do it.