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Real go for Bale as Arsenal’s indifference shows Cesc where he went oh so wrong

By Tony Attwood

Real Madrid president Florentino Perez was just waiting for this moment; a moment when he could say that some top player had a direct line to Read Mad from where ever he plays at the moment.

The whole PR stunt, which involves a suggestion that Tottenham H forward Gareth Bale was born to play for Real Mad and the corrupt Madrid Council that works with them, is, after a lot of waiting, the answer to the endless, endless, tedious story of Cesc Fab and his troublesome DNA.

For several years Real Mad taunted Barcelona about their not being able to look after their own children (a reference to Cesc’s early recruitment by Arsenal from under their noses).  Eventually Barca was forced to make a high offer for Cesc even though they have had their hands burned so regularly in buying players from Arsenal.

Indeed it is more than likely that even the financially inept Barca hierarchy were aware of the Flamini Effect – the effect that makes players who appear to be doing well at Arsenal, do far less well when they move.  RVP is of course an exception, but Cesc has been more akin to Henry, Hleb, Song and the like.  Turning out to be far less than the buying club expected (just ask Milan about Flamini).  Indeed you may recall the articles on Untold calculating just how much it cost Barcelona per game for Henry.  £250,000 a game I seem to recall.

It shows just how inward looking Spanish football is, that the battle of words between Real Mad and Bankrupt Barca is more important to them than trying to weigh up if they need a player and how he will fit in.  It is almost as if Spanish teams have looked at the AAA and seen their endless cry for transfers as a model of how a club should work, rather than a dire warning of an approach that always fails.  (Indeed I don’t know why the AAA don’t bugger off and support Bankrupt Barca or Real Mad – both clubs are much more in keeping with what the AAA want).

Anyway, Cesc has found that his DNA doesn’t include Barcelona within it, and that the transfer was a load of tripe.  OK, he picked up a nice woman, and a lot of dosh, but not much in the way of footballing credibility.

So where now Cesc?

He’s had two years in the Nou Camp, doesn’t always get to start games, and unless a sub he rarely finishes them. He has scored 12 this last season.  He has three years on his contract so he could just take the money and play with his ladyfriend.

David Moyes might want him – after all they know the quality that Arsenal always finds in players.  But could Man U succeed where Barcelona has so obviously failed?

Watch Arsenal Live Streams With StreamFootball.tv

On the other hand when money is being splashed Man C usually rise to the top.  But they have no manager – although they will do anything to stop Man U getting someone – no matter how much the player’s reputation has sunk.

Of course I have no inner knowledge of such matters, but people keep saying that the contract between Arsenal and the club renowned for its ban on colour photocopying as a way of saving money, suggests that Arsenal have first pick if Cesc is on the move.  There are other bits to the story too.  One says that there was a deal that Arsenal would get 50% of the sell on fee – which would mean that if we bought him back, we would pay half the price.

Quite a thought, but the word is that Arsenal are cool on the matter to the point of indifference.

Of course Cesc could move from one two horse league (Spain) to another (France).  PSG and Monaco can buy anyone (as long as the French League don’t carry out their threat to remove Monaco from the top division, because of the tax issue).

You could look at Milan and Bayern as well, but there are doubts as to how much money Milan really has, and whether having failed with Cesc once, Pep Guardiola would want another bash.

I have no idea if Mr Wenger has any thought on whether one should bring someone back – but a side with Cazorla and Cesc and Jack would have a certain degree of flair.

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76 comments to Real go for Bale as Arsenal’s indifference shows Cesc where he went oh so wrong

  • docbrody

    Cesc is all silk and no steel. How many times did we see him hang his head in dejection when Arsenal went down 1 – nil. What an awful example for a captain to show the rest of the team, especially the youngsters. When the going gets tough he just doesn’t have enough fight in him. He’s demonstrating the same at Barca. He’s got the talent to be a starter, especially with a number of players getting old, but they aren’t just going to hand it to him. Arsenal’s gotten a lot tougher since he left. They could use his talent, but I’m not convinced it would be the best thing for overall team dynamic on the field or in the lockeroom.

  • HighburyRed

    Not only do you have “no inner knowledge knowledge of such matters” but you don’t know much about football.
    Milan didn’t buy Flamini – he was a free transfer.
    And Cesc didn’t pick up his “nice woman” in Barcelona, he met her in London, where she still lives, notably with their new baby. He also took a pay cut to move back to his boyhood club – that seems to have been forgotten too.
    And it has to be said that Cesc’s career with Barca has been pretty good so far – the only people that seem to think the move has been bad are bloggers and journalists trying to create something out of nothing. This season he’s scored ten goals and provided 11 assists in 31 league appearances. Last season it was nine goals and 10 assists from 28 appearances.
    If you figure that Arsenal’s player of the season, Santi Cazorla, scored 12 goals and had 14 assists from 38 league appearances this season, it’s pretty similar but nobody is suggesting Cazorla has been a flop and will move on.
    Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see Cesc back at Arsenal, but simply jumping on the band wagon and repeating the inane comments of others is pretty shabby.

  • dave

    @docbrody
    what terrible comments,, cesc an awful example???? doesnt have enough fight?? your a clown,, he was top midfielder in europe for 5 years (fact) and carried us at times.. muppet

  • joe61

    AAA? you are so backward and divisive. with that, you spoilt what was otherwise a good article.

  • Rupert Cook

    As above.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Think we could end up paying less than half price, rumours they still owe us for Cesc and Song…but that said, I have no idea how these things are financed. I can see Cesc staying at Barca for another year, while Neymar settles in , Thiago gains experience (unless it is him off to Utd) – Cesc is also cover for other Barca attacking players who are starting to get injured more regularly after some…seemingly super human runs without injury in one case. Just hope others do not try and force our new Spanish gem away, he is certainly a Barca type player, and I know of an incoming Citeh manager who apparently rates him very highly

  • fridaz

    Cesc is still an excellent player,let’s just try and get him back because the club just has to win a silverware next season.

  • 1NiltotheArsenal

    I would love to see Cesc back in the squad, but I also agree with some of the above commentary. We’ve badly needed for sometime now, some real steel in our squads. Players who intimidate and are not intimidated. Players whose very presence on the pitch make the opposition nervous. A couple of real “hard men” added to the Arsenal won’t stop us from playing the most attractive football in England and won’t turn us into Stoke.

    C’mon Le Boss, let’s get some tough guys…

  • Adam

    Cazorla, Cesc and Jack. Good luck trying to get the ball off those three.

    I personally cannot see it happening, Cesc returning. Would love it to happen and I believe we would see a man return, not the boy who left.

  • sperez

    Many people saying Wenger doesn’t want Fabregas back because of his behaviour in his last season at Arsenal. I know he feigned injuries and I think this was disgusting and selfish but I also know he was fed up with Wenger and his bulls*it. Imagine a top player being told there’d be good signings every summer only to end up playing with the likes of Denilson, Squilaci, Clichy, Silvestre, Senderos and Djourou, guaranteeing no silverware at all. I’d probably be fed up too.
    Anyway, one must remember the buyback clause inserted. Certainly this shows some interest.
    I don’t believe he will leave Barcelona this season.

  • wambam

    If Mourinho wants to sell David Luiz to raise funds, what about as our holding mid?

  • GUN

    If Cesc is available Arsenal should buy him.

  • Sam

    A mid-field of Cesc, jack and Santi is nothing but Utopia.
    Also methinks there would be far less balance in the middle of the field compared to the current one.

  • digvijay

    arsenal have improved alot since cesc left. when cesc was there and we lost a game against chelsea, they used to say that is the difference between men and boys. but now it doesn seem that way. there is a lot of grit in the team now. i dont see cesc fitting in without a disruption to that. since he is a quality player he would slot into the team straightaway, but for a team to win desire to win trumps anything.

  • digvijay

    and the current players want to win.

  • Rupert Cook

    Schurrle has nearly signed for Chelsea if you believe the media. Pretty decent player and we could have afforded him.

  • Arsenal1Again

    Yes I agree, it would be nice to see an article without AAA mentioned.

  • Adam

    Yes lets get into a bidding war with Chelsea. Rupert, I Thought you knew better than that?

  • John L

    im not sure i agree with the assessment that cesc’s time at barca has been a failure. whenever i see him play with barca or spain i think he is absolutely fantastic. he was bought in case xavi or iniesta got hurt and as their long term successor as they begin to age.
    i just cant see barca selling….
    having said that if there is any way that arsenal can bring him back i am of the opinion that he would really help us push for the title next season. although he should not be given the captaincy.

  • marcus

    I see Cesc going to MC (or MU)

    As these teams build their spines on our players, you have to question the definition of success. Whilst we cannot win anything, we provide players to Manchester who catapault them to success.

    Strange really…if you are not a coincidence theorist, you might start questioning why our very good teams never win anything.

    We seem to outclass the homeboys in Europe these days….but that anomaly is brushed under the carpet.

  • soglorious

    Rupert Cook would have bought the whole world of players if he were to be the manager. Playing Football Manager is eon ages different from real life football friend. Get real. Tony, don’t say RVP wouldn’t fall into the Flamini camp for now. After all, its just one out of four years. Wouldn’t mind Fab4 joining us anyway but is he what we really need? Only Arsene Wenger can answer that not someone like me who is meant to support him and his team anyday, anytime under any situation. COYG

  • So you hear your girlfriend calling out her old boyfriend’s name in bed. Then you hear her talking about how much better things were with him. Then you see her at a sidewalk cafe having lunch with him. And he tells you that it’s inevitable that she will go back to him, because he’s so much richer and you can’t stop him because he’ll punch your lights out if you try. Then you come home to find the two of them doing the deed in your bed. Then, after you’ve moved on and found an honest, faithful woman, the old girlfriend calls you up and tells you the old boyfriend is as inattentive as he used to be, and she wants you to take her back.

    No. Francesc Fabregas is not Arsenal material. He has the talent. He does not have the loyalty, the selflessness, the courage, or, dare I say it, the mental strength. Bringing him back would be like giving a Parkinson’s patient a loaded gun.

    For some of you, Fabregas is drugs. It is time to kick the habit. Cold turkey. It’ll be hell for a few days, but you’ll be so much better off in the end.

  • Rupert Cook

    @soglorious, I don’t play football manager, in fact I detest computer games. No I wouldn’t buy a whole world of players just two or three world class ones which I expect we’ll do as we now have lots of money.

    @Adam, we never get in a bidding war with anyone now do we?

  • Adam

    I don’t think Arsenal want to get in any bidding war.

    If that’s what your after I suggest “homes under the hammer” or “antiques road show”.

    Love you sweetheart.

  • Rupert Cook

    @Adam, are you in a bit of a mood tonight? Hope you’re not turning into that moron bjt gooner. Last time I mention him.

    Maybe we’ve signed our striker already anyway, this Sanogo fellow from Ligue 2. I don’t think we got into a bidding war there.

  • Dec

    Come home Cesc, immortality beckons. You’ll never get a statue outside the Nou Camp. Add Seamus Coleman at right back and 2014 will be the next year displayed around Les Emirates.

  • RobL

    I’m with Uncle Mike, if Fab is pissed that his actual time playing the beautiful game is limited so, then sod off to Crewe, they like to play it on the floor.

  • bjtgooner

    Little rupert, you are obviously the one in a mood – you are being rather dismissive of Sanogo – have you seen him play?

    If we avoided a bidding war and the guy turns out to be a top player that equates to good business – so why carp?

    Your tone suggests that you consider Sanogo is not a quality player – are you in a position to judge on that – if not you should shut the hell up.

    Your determination to be negative about the club betrays you. Do yourself a favour and go and support someone else.

  • Adam

    OOH, Don’t drag me into your fight with BJT, I’m retaliating from a little dig you had at me earlier, anyway I have been following yours & BJT’s dislike for one another and I thought I was in for a right treat tonight, I had me ringside seat sorted, even got some popcorn on the go. But the event didn’t pan out as hoped and I fell asleep.

    Anyway my money’s on JT.

  • bjtgooner

    If the rupert doesn’t liven up soon I’ll be asleep too!!

  • sexy smooth

    Some gunners fans are very funny, someone who paid part of his money to leave and you want him back.

    Fuck him we don’t want him, he can go wherever he wants.

  • Kieran

    I think cesc has shown a lot more grit than given credit for. Having said that the lat season left us gritting our teeth and it was a relief when it was over. My hope is that he returns a man. I drool at the opportunities for theo. Olivier and Lucas with cesc providing runs. I would love to see this happen, but get the feeling wenger will continue the stand he made with RSVP and song

  • Goona Gal

    @ docbrody – I totally agree with you, I am not looking at this through rose tinted glasses either. The current squad has self belief, but no ego and mental toughness. I am looking forward to seeing how the squad battles and fights next season, as they are maturer and have developed more understanding. If we can get the right additions, we could take quite a few by surprise.

    I wouldn’t want Cesc back next season as he is jaded, troubled and has missed two good years of his prime playing days on the bench. He will need a good season of Wenger rehab to find form, whereas give it another year and there might be an argument for bringing him back. With a number of players like Rosicky getting on a bit and if Barca decide that despite his Catalan DNA, they want him gone – there could be a way back for Cesc.

    I do believe that Barca are offering him about to clubs, Man U being one of them. However Cesc would compound his problems if moved to Moyes’ Man U in his maiden management season. Moyes is under a lot of pressure and I don’t think he is the manager to help Cesc rediscover his form. If Barca are determined to move him on, then Cesc should go to France or Italy for a bit. Cesc at Man C under Pellegrini, would be a good fit, so I would NOT want to see that happen as he would make that squad a lot stronger.

    AW told Cesc not to go when he did, but Cesc foolishly believed Barca that he would play regularly and retire a legend at the club. Cesc’s situation is another chapter in the book of the Barca fables

  • FunGunner

    Barca are not selling, seems to be the strong opinion of Balague and Hunter. And Cesc will be eyeing up Xavi’s place. I think Arsene would have Cesc back in a heartbeat, but I am with Goonagal, Uncle Mike and doc brody. In a year or two – AFTER we’ve won a trophy or two – maybe. He would definitely raise the talent level but he wouldn’t improve this team.

  • ARSENAL 13

    well said Uncle Mike, I (always) thought Cesc, talent aside, is a weak character….the first person to drop his shoulders, throwing tantrums, getting into needless arguments, needless fouls when going gets tough.

    I think we are over with him now. Lets take whatever money we get of that “sell on” thing and forget him for good.

  • rupert cook

    Such short memories. Yes I agree that Cesc’s last season at Arsenal was average but I’ll never forget a game against Villa when we labouring to score and then on came Cesc, changed the game in about 10 minutes and we won. I wonder how many great players sit on our bench these days.

    @Adam, you’re a bit sensitive. My apologies if I pissed you off. Sorry to disappoint you regards bjt but I can’t be bothered flinging childish insults back and forth especially as my argument is based on our lack of tangible success over the last seven years and my position is impregnable.

    http://www.google.com/search?q=petit+and+overmars+sign+for+Arsenal&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.47244034,d.d2k&biw=1280&bih=933&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=N5OpUfOhA8bM0QW10oGIDg#facrc=_&imgrc=5WommgfPbh-rIM%3A%3Be5h1uNchVTKNMM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.fifa.com%252Fmm%252Fphoto%252Fworldfootball%252Fclubfootball%252F01%252F05%252F71%252F49%252F1057149_full-lnd.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.fifa.com%252Fworldfootball%252Fphoto%252F105%252F714%252F9%252Fpicture.html%3B512%3B384

  • rupert cook

    There’s some lovely pictures to remind you all of when we signed great players. This will be happening again this summer we have been assured.

  • AL

    My money was also firmly on BJT:)

    I’d go with most saying having Cesc back would be ideal, he might destabilise other players development as obviously he would like to play regularly which is the only reason I believe he would leave Barcelona for, don’t think his time on the pitch there can be considered a failure yet. I also think its a figment of the English media’s imagination he’s leaving; Xavi is not going to be playing that much this season and Cesc is the natural successor. If he has to really move then wouldn’t want to see him in the premiership.

  • AL

    Meant to say go along with most saying bringing Cesc would NOT be ideal…. missed one little word there.

  • Matt Clarke

    As a fan my answer to both questions is: No
    They went when we did not want them to, I do not wish for them to return.

    Putting myself in Wenger’s head my answer would also be No
    The return of either would unsettle the current mood in the club and undermine my authority.

    Now, if you had asked, Do I want Song back?
    As a fan the answer would be Yes.

  • Stuart

    Rupert Cook,
    Ironically, the link you provided also leads us to this article about the success of past managers :-
    http://arsenalarsenal.wordpress.com/2013/01/12/arsenal-managers-a-walk-down-memory-lane/

  • americangooner

    No. mentioning AAA is not divisive. it is only divisive and backwards to those who feel someone is calling them AAA. many things are divisive more than the mere mention of AAA. AAA is not much used beyond the boundaries of this blog. AKB and WOB seems more prevalent. Some of the things that are ten folds divisive than AAA.
    1. 70M figure
    2. Ramsey
    3. Calling the manager by C-word.
    4. Bringing in ‘blah, blah, blah its time to go blah blah blah’ inside the stadium (which resulted in a scuffle).
    5. Protesting outside the stadium before a crucial match.
    6. So-called “Dead-woods”
    7. The Board
    These are the things that are divisive, not the mere mention of AAA, AKB or WOB, which are mere abbreviations.

  • Adam

    No worries fella, just felt you was having a dig at me. Maybe I was being a tad pedantic.

    I wouldn’t get your hopes up about us signing the next Pires, Vieira or Henry, Arsene builds players up to become legends. Patience is still needed.

    I for one hope we go for Adrien Rabiot but I don’t think PSG as stupid enough to sell him to Wenger. He would be my number one target anyway.

  • Stuart

    Highburyred,
    the way you point out a mistake in the article by launching an insult is not necessary especially when your correction includes a mistake.
    You state “you don’t know much about football.” and cite an example where “Cesc didn’t pick up his “nice woman” in Barcelona, he met her in London” as being an example of not knowing much about football yet this fact is not football related.

  • Adam

    And forgot to mention that I would do a swap deal with Sanga for the young man as hard as it would be to part with Sanga it would be worth it in the long run.

  • Gooner S

    @Tony – Why refer to the AAA in this article? It made a point without it. It’s a little tedious now and it will lose its impact when you do need to use it.

    @americangooner in my view you are wrong with the thrust of your comment and you’re missing the point. I do not think I am AAA and therefore, as you say, react accordingly. Likewise I do not think I am an AKB and I say as much on Le Grove – on which I regularly comment. I agree with most if not all of your sub points (Ramsey, calling the manager a C***t etc).

    The point is one camp is behaving as poorly and badly as the other usng these labels, albeit, and you make a good point in this respect, it is not foul-mouthed or abusive here (in the comments secton) – which I very much respect. It is generally those people writing in the comments sections that get carried away not the bloggers in my experience but then I only read two; this one and Le Grove. But that said using terms like AAA and AKB doesn’t help matters.

  • Winner

    Cesc, Carzola,Wilshere will be a very interesting midfield only against mediocre and bottom of table teams. In the big games it will be a recipe for disaster. The team will be severely handicapped defensively as those players cannot defend. I still rate Cesc highly, but the current midfield offers more balance than any other combination Arsenal had after the departure of Viera.

  • Pat

    Arteta for example has been fantastic in our midfield.

  • Pat

    And Rosicky in the last part of the season.

  • dan

    As much I would love Cesc back in our midfield it’s a non story. Wenger wouldn’t table an offer, that said I wish Cesc all the best.

  • Goona Gal

    @ Fungunner – We are on the same page.

    Also, I wanted to remind some of this Moyes vs Cesc incident not so long ago…

    Accusation
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/e/everton/9384490.stm

    After Arsenal challenge him to ask for an official investigation…

    Back Track
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9388001.stm

    So Moyes has personally sued Wayne Rooney – but now has to convince him to play for him, has Vanpurstrings in the dressing room giving him coaching advice(trust me it will happen) and if the press were to be taken seriously, Cesc Fabregas – a player he had a very public spat with….Hmmm, I will be watching Man U next season with interest.

  • americangooner

    @gooner I do agree that those abbreviations are redundant but my disagreement is in implying that it is divisive and backwards.

  • weedonald

    Let’s face it everyone, we have NO idea what Wenger will do, as usual and we have short memories about Cesc. Against Barca, when his leg was fractured, he played on and scored the tying goal if I remember correctly. Yes he tended to get down when we were behind but I never saw him slack off or accept defeat, either at AFC or at Barca. His time at Barca, inho, has been a qualified success and were it not for Xavi and Iniesta remaining fit for most of the season, Cesc would have played a lot more as a starter.
    He left to return to his homeland and I understand that. Arsenal could never compete for his loyalties but we obviously mean a lot to him as he clearly stated on numerous occasions that he would only play for Barca and Arsenal and might one day return to be a Gunner. I don’t see this happening right now because:

    1) He has established a life in Barcelona and a fmaily as well,
    2) His future at Barca, while plateauing temporarily, will almost certainly improve…he is in his prime and uninjured,
    3) He is winning titles and trophies at Barca…why would he return to us and the ¨hope¨ of winning, when he can play in a league where he wins something every season?
    4)He doesn’t have to face the Stokes and Shawcrosses in LaLiga and he gets decent officiating most of the time…why crawl back into the lion’s den when you are in a bed of roses?
    5)He would rather be a small frog in a very big pond than be a big frog in a smaller pond…therefore United would make more sense for him than AFC at the moment.
    6) He loves Wenger like a father and his respect for him would prevent him from returning without him being 100% committed or loyal….at the moment his heart is still in Barcelona as far as I can see,
    7)We have a very different team than we did 2 years ago, it is still a work in progress but it is clear that our varied components are starting to click, Cesc watches every Arsenal game (he said so himself) and he must see that fitting in to our current side would be complicated and a real challenge. Why would he want to go through all that again?

    I would be glad to take him back in a heartbeat but would be very concerned about how he would change the chemistry and attitude of this improving and evolving Club. I am sure Wenger has the same concerns….IF Cesc ever becomes available.

  • Goona Gal

    My comment from ages ago is still in moderation, I think because of the two links,so I will split it up.

    @ Fungunner – We are on the same page.

    Also, I wanted to remind some of this Moyes vs Cesc incident not so long ago…

    Accusation
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/e/everton/9384490.stm

  • Goona Gal

    After Arsenal challenged him to ask for an official investigation…

    Back Track
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9388001.stm

    So Moyes has personally sued Wayne Rooney – but now has to convince him to play for him, has Vanpurstrings in the dressing room giving him coaching advice(trust me it will happen) and if the press were to be taken seriously, Cesc Fabregas – a player he had a very public spat with….Hmmm, I will be watching Man U next season with interest.

  • Adam

    Not only the above but wasn’t Fabregas identified as the person who threw soup or pizza at Sir Alex Ferguson?

    Cole statement, “This slice of pizza came flying over my head and hit Fergie straight in the mush,”

    Martin Keown confirmed it was Fabregas who threw soup or pizza at Fergie.

    The Arsenal board will unveil a statue of Fabregas eating pizza outside the armoury next month.

  • Pat

    Adam, you gave me a good laugh there!

  • FunGunner

    Very well remembered, goonagal – one of the reasons why I dislike Moyes. Martinez did something similar as well, as I recall.

    @ weedonald
    What you say is mostly true about Cesc until his last season when he basically couldn’t be arsed, played when he felt like it but nursed his “hamstring injury” when he didn’t, allowed all his mates and his dad to diss Arsenal in public etc etc. It was clear he had left us emotionally and psychologically if not physically. There’s even a photo of him celebrating Messi scoring…against Arsenal…in a game Fabregas was playing. During that summer, we were fighting for CL qualification and AW said he was unable to play Cesc because although he was fit, “his head was not right”. At least Nasri was prepared to play until he was actually transferred.

  • Jeez are you STILL going on about AAA! Get over it for goodness sake – they don’t exist.

    As for the Barcelona and Real Madrid model ‘always failing’, I think you need to look again. I think it seems to be working better than our model, don’t you?

    Cesc Fabregas is a small fish in a big pond now, but still a great player and he is winning trophies now. He is doing better than when at Arsenal, he’s just not the star anymore.

    I don’t know where you get your information that we are ‘cool’ on a return for Fabregas. Do you have some inside information? If so, please elaborate, or else stop making things up to suit your argument.

  • walter

    jayram, yeah the Barcelona and Real Madrid model works rather well in a two team league.
    So when you win nothing in such a league model you have failed. Of course the chance of winning something for them is always big.

    Put those teams in another league and it might be a bit more difficult. Oh there is such a league. The champions league. let us see Real Madrid last win more than 10 years ago. And that with all the money spend and all the superstars bought. That is failure for me.
    Barcelona won it 3 times in the last 10 years. Thanks to having built patiently at first and having the luck to have “kidnapped” Messi at a very young age. And also spend much much money that they didn’t have.

    I think it is fair to say that for the Spanish top teams they should at least win 2 trophies in a season or else it can be called failure.

  • walter

    Oh and forgot: the earth is flat.

  • Stroller

    @FunGooner
    Yes I well recall Cesc’s last season with us. Those who want him back now prefer to only think about the previous brilliant ones. I’m interested on your interpretation of the nagging hamstring injury though. An alternative take might be that it was in fact a bit more long-term than thought at the time. i.e. enough to reduce his role to part-time semi-striker and bench warmer at Barca sunsequently? Is he now capable of being the player we like to remember, because that hasn’t been seen for a few years now?

  • Marc

    The papers would have us believe that ManU are going to buy Ronaldo back, buy Bale from the Spud’s and now Cesc. I can’t see Moyes being given a transfer budget of in excess of £150 million.

    It will be interesting to see if the media relationship with ManU (I say relationship more like constant arse kissing) will change with Fergie gone. They were after all terrified of him.

  • Stuart

    Jayram,

    AAA exists just as much as AKB so until then….

  • bob

    Mr. Attwood,
    Ok, Cesc basically has been a failure at Barfa, right? Well, imo, your use of the term/concept/allegation/undercurrent (whatever you mean by the thrust of your argument) has to be refined or made understandable. The usage or sense of Cesc as “failure” in this article does not achieve or perhaps intend clarity or accuracy. I’m happy to be wrong, Tony, but in the interests of better understanding so all can analyse together, it appears that x-Cesc had 30 appearances for Barca in La Liga matches. I’ve read that he’s scored 12 goals and had 11 assists. That would be a contribution to more than a goal per match. And this result would be from someone who was often enough not a starter, nor playing in his preferred position. I’m happy to be corrected on this, but it seems that your rush to construct “the destroyed career syndrome” for any and all (except RVP) who dare to leave the tribe is one of your literary tropes, Mr. Attwood. It does not help people think, assuming that is still among the leading goals here, to leave these considerations out of the picture. When it comes to assertions that we are surely not hurting from RVP’s departure, your/UA are very quick to provide the goals scored statistic – albeit never the goals:shots ratio. Can’t we deal here with a fuller picture instead of weighted talking points (especially whenever spending available cash from the sacred vault becomes an affordable possibility).

  • kaius

    Cesc Fabregas did great for us, short of winning a major trophy. At his peak he was near unplayable. Sadly Barcelona couldn’t ignore his stellar development at Arsenal as well as his pivotal performances in an already star-studded and soon to be immortal Spanish international side, and now he plays for them. Let’s find a new player to get all sentimental about, not an old one. Young players that can avoid injury are developing faster than they used to and Arsenal is still a great club for a focussed young player to develop. Much as loved Arsenal Cesc, i’d much rather see guys like Verratti, Banega, Cabella or Hernanes come in and grow with the club. Cesc’ll be fine at Barca, his time is yet to come.

  • Arun

    bob
    Just a little correction. The number 30 are the no of matches that he started, not appearances. He also came on as a substitute twice, so that makes it 32 appearances. Also he scored 11 goals in the league, those 12 are the total no of goals that he scored in the league and the CL, not the cup competitions.
    Whoscored.com rates his performances as 7.27 throughout the season. Comparing this to Arsenal players, only Cazorla and Arteta have better ratings than him.

    He’s had two years in the Nou Camp, doesn’t always get to start games
    Tony, 30 league starts ain’t that bad.
    So, he’s doing a fine job over there. With the number of appearances for Xavi only going down next year, he will get more opportunities next season to play in his preferred midfield position.

  • bob

    Arun,
    Many Thanks for correcting the record. It matters that we learn the specifics. Yes, Cesc is doing a job with the time he has had. This is far from the relative or abject failure that Tony is peddling. What’s up with that?

  • bob

    “Young players that can avoid injury are developing faster than they used to…”
    kaius,
    I hope it’s the case, but is there genetic-engineering afoot? Are they Dean-proof? Riley-proof? To make your prophesy stand, there needs to be Walter’s diminution of refshite. Walter rocks.

  • bob

    Mr. Attwood,
    In the x-Cesc watch department,
    Have Barfa sent back all it’s owed to AFC on the Cesc deal?
    Who’s responsible for either incurring or forgiving that debt, if there is a debt? Are you interested in raising/addressing that point at this time of Cesc-rumoring? Or is that debt part of some well-honed plan by AFC to bankrupt Barfa?

  • Stuart

    Bob,
    “it appears that x-Cesc had 30 appearances for Barca in La Liga matches. I’ve read that he’s scored 12 goals and had 11 assists. That would be a contribution to more than a goal per match. ”

    If I can correct you here, that would be a contribution to less than a goal per match. Did you mean to enter different figures?

  • bob

    Stuart,
    I stated first (and then meant) contributed to more than 1 goal a game. Would you assent to that, which is plainly my meaning (despite my mistake)? Do you agree with that observation or that Cesc is a failure? That’s plainly the point, given the article.

  • A. Stewart

    A few things. Players who go to the top clubs of the world, with the top players of the world generally accept that playing time will not be guaranteed. And especially at Barca with their players and talent, Fabregas would have known this, accepted this, and expected this before going.

    Most top players are generally not happy when they don’t play as much, however, it’s a big leap (especially after a year) to jump to some agenda-driven conclusion that as a result they are overall unhappy and want to leave because things are not gifted to them on a platter, and again they would have known this before going.

    Moreover, even in the face of diminished playing time there are advantages and attractions of going to the world’s elite including: winning titles; earning more money (not entirely clear in Cesc’s case); playing with and learning from the better and the best players; and guess what……

    Some players are motivated by proving that they belong on the biggest stage and fighting their way into a team of the world’s best and competing for that as opposed to having everything gifted to them. That competitive drive to play amongst the best, displace the best, belief that they can be the best, even in the face of stiff competition is often what…separates the best.

    Looking at the particulars of the Cesc/Barca situation. Xavi can’t go on forever, and maybe his chance for more playing time is coming this season, who knows? Neymar coming may mean less playing time for him, however, it could mean more. They may try to adopt a more direct approach to set players like Neymar and Messi free now, and utilize Cesc’s best talents..who knows.. Not to mention the draw of being home could be a positive initially (perhaps mitigated now somewhat by his family situation back in London).

    There are so many possibilities of what is happening and more importantly how things could go, yet some seek comfort and glee in thinking Fabregas is regretting his decision after only a year (in which statistically he did pretty well as some mentioned), and that if indeed he is regretting his decision (despite saying he’s happy there) that he would want to come here as opposed to anywhere else, and that we are somehow being indifferent to him..and can rejoice in teaching some kind of lesson about leaving us.

    Yay. I guess.

  • A. Stewart

    after 2 years should have read….

  • Stuart

    Bob,
    I haven’t checked your figures for myself so I’m just ensuring you have the correct data. What you have listed gives input to 0.76 goals per game or 1.3 games per goal so was just checking you hadn’t mis-typed and he had intact scored more.

  • Edu

    @weedonald
    i agree 100% with your thoughts..i think the point your raise about cesc having the ‘hope’ of maybe winning something applies also to other potential signing if they are quality players that is and not some small fry that will us arsenal to get noticed then jump ship to a team that wins trophies..wenger and the board must just loosen their purse strings and get 2-3 marquee signings to get this team believing again..