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August 2021

Consolation in defeat: or how to keep calm when all seems lost

Consolation in defeat: or how to keep calm when all seems lost

It has been a difficult weekend so far. On weekend days off from working at the Gillespie Road University I attend each and every home game at Ashburnham Grove with my fellow doctors of philosophy. I admit that trying to make sense of what happened between 3 and 4.50 pm on the Saturday last has strained even my massive brain, but here again I trust we might (as Professor de Botton would say) find our consolation in the teachings of the ancients.

Our lesson today is in the work of the Stoics.

Stoicism developed in Greece in days when they still had some money and all their artworks hadn’t been filched by perfidious Albion*. During an impromptu keepy-uppy session by the Stoa poikile (or ‘Painted Porch’) in Athens, Zeno (inside forward of the Corithian Casuals) and two teammates from the Greek national side, Cleanthes and Chrysippus, came up with a theory of ethics** to help explain the recent heavy defeat of the Spartans at Thermopylae in the Graco-Persian League South.

Let me give you a scenario that helps to explain Stoic ethics:

A wise man sees that his son is in danger of drowning whilst swimming in a lake, so he tries to save him, but fails. The boy drowns. The man needs feel neither pity nor distress because, by attempting to save his son he has done the right thing and it is divine providence that has determined that the poor lad should die. There is, therefore, no point in him holding himself to account or wallowing in grief, as there was nothing he could do to alter the course of events. The Stoic position is therefore something like – what matters is our attempt to do what is right.

This is not the same as fatalism however, because in the above scenario the father would have left his son to sink or swim. Fatalism is, of course, more closely linked with the notion of destiny; that we have little or no control over our fate – our future is already mapped out for us. Perhaps it was the boy’s destiny to drown or indeed, to survive.

So how, in Stoical terms, should football fans approach the onset of a new season and the many disappointments and occasional highs that it might bring? I’m sure you have worked this out for yourselves.

We support our team, we cheer and applaud, we urge them forward and perform our own little personal rituals to ensure victory. If they win we salute them and congratulate ourselves on our own efforts on their behalf; if they lose we can console ourselves with the thought that we did our best and that there is little we can do about the intervention of the Gods of Football***. Frankly folks, what other path is there?

After all, as the man says, we are Arsenal fans

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Kind regards,

the Blacksheep, BA (Hons),PhD, FrHS, AST, AISA, RSVP

* That is, Old England NOT West Bromwich

** not to be confused with that sprawling suburb of east London, so beloved of the spray tanned and feckless

** aka the PGMO

109 comments to Consolation in defeat: or how to keep calm when all seems lost

  • porter

    Sounds like you have given up already.

  • Gerry Lennon

    I may be in the minority right now, but I enjoyed your take on it. I also think it is the right thing to do.
    September 2nd might be the time to hoist the gallows, or not, as the case may be?
    I for one believe Arsene Wenger is trying his best for what is right for the team, and if he fails in his attempts, he will be the first to walk.

  • Rupert Cook

    Alain de Botton, you lost my interest when I saw his name. I find him rather weak as a philosopher.

    Anyway to more fascinating issues, it seems the Ox could be out for many weeks. Worst scenario is six months. Coupled with the loss of Arteta who appears to be the lynchpin in our team that’s not good. Gibbs is ok at least. Sagna is doubtful. Not sure what news there is on Rosicky though he’s always prone to injury, something most of us know so I’m not sure why Wenger would be banking on him to get through a season.

    It’ll be tough in Turkey but not impossible.

  • Tappy

    See your comparison, but if you fail to add a guard rail, warn about currents and have no life guard to prevent the drowning before the event happened then you have NOT done all you can to stop the boy drowning, I believe you were given 90 days to improve the chances of him not drowning. Do YOU see?

  • optimist habila

    So you mean Wenger should be satisfied because he tried to buy in order to beef up the squad but the players or their clubs refused? please l don’t like your escapist and lazy man’s theory. Wenger should live and die in guilt now because he had all the chance but kept on pretending, deceiving fans. We fans also have a chance to salvage the situation. boycott Arsenal’s last EPL game before the close of the transfer window else we should share in the guilt.

  • Gooner S

    I like this. Made me smile.

  • MoW

    Have you seen the statement from the AST?

  • nicky

    Blacksheep, you took the words right out of my mouth.
    Our home defeat is a blessing in disguise. Imagine being still unbeaten at home early next May…..the terrible tension if we go a goal down..are we to lose our unbeaten record..ooooer.
    It’s a blessing in disguise, I tell you.
    Now all we have to do is lose an away game and we can relax for the rest of the season. No tension over unbeaten records..Yippeee
    Trust me, I’m a doctor…Nicky MD (Bombay) (Failed).

  • alex

    The title of your article won my heart. As you say the father did everything to save his son . In light of this the club did nothing to save the team so far.The brighter side we are not dead yet and hope that someone do the right thing at the right time.
    However my question is:
    Do we really need to be in this situation ? I don’t think so frankly speaking.

  • MoW

    Perhaps the father, having seen his son flounder in the water countless times before, shoulder feel regret for not taking action sooner. Perhaps the father, having seen all the other fathers teach their sons how to swim, and having seen all the other mothers make their children floating jackets, should feel shame for stubbornly ignoring the advise of others. Perhaps the father, following his loss, should find ways to explain his actions to his grieving wife, who despite his attempts to save their son at the end is bitter and angry at his obstinacy and pride. Perhaps then, having been cast away from his home the father should reflect on philosophy of the Stoics.

  • Tiredgooner

    I have been reading articles on this site for a while now. Even though I like the positive and analytical way of looking at things I just think it’s about time you said enough is enough.

    I am not looking to criticise Arsene, but letting the team get to this point is shocking. As a top manager, shouldn’t he be aware where the club needs strengthening? Arteta has been the only defensive midfielder for 2 seasons now. We reportedly went in for Capoue in January only to allow Spurs to sign him this summer. Secondly, we wen t through the season with 3 central defenders; one who is currently suspended and the other injured. Shouldn’t we have had that covered by now considering Vermalen was injured at the start of preseason? Thirdly, the striker situation is abysmal. We have known right from the start of last season we needed another prolific striker. We have lost out on targets when the deal should have been done and dusted…need I say more?

    Right now is not the time to point fingers, but surely it’s time for someone to take responsibility. Who ever is making the decision about transfers should be fired as they are currently doing a poor job.

  • Dominic

    It’s the way we defend that is the problem. How many times over the last few seasons have we seen that when we lose possession of the ball, we are very susceptible to the ball being played forward quickly? Oh for the days when we had Gilberto to slow down or break up the opposition’s counter attacks.
    There is no point in re-inforcing the squad if we don’t change our defensive strategy. It’s a bit like putting new stronger locks on the doors of a house while leaving the windows open.

  • para

    All in all, even as weak as some say we are, there is no way that we would have let Aston Villa beat us. But even the players started to resign when they realised they were playing against 12 men, their heads started dropping, their faith in football started to wane, even though there were some spirited attempts at times, and it is in this moment when the team needs it’s manager, animating them from the touchline, letting them know they can do it even against all the odds.
    This policy that the ref is always right even when wrong needs to be changed. He must be accountable for his mistakes.
    His money needs to be rescinded when he makes mistakes like that, and on top of it, letting one team decimate another resulting in 4-5 non trivial injuries, that is directly an assasination attempt on our beloved Arsenal, and i fear there will be more such like throughout the season, mark my words. I am disgusted, but not at out team, at how football can still be manipulated, yes i go as far as to say, that this was not a single ref but a massive attack from those in the higher echelons of the UK who want Arsenal to FAIL.
    Call me crazy, call me insane, but this is what i see, and it has been going on for a while, only this season, it has stepped up some, they are going for the throat this time. Remember what i said, remember it good, as the season goes on.

  • Arsenal1Again

    Stoicism? More like violin playing as Rome burns. Greek and Roman classics aside, there is very little to be stoic about because after we weather this storm, we know we are going to be lead by the same generals with ideology which has bore no fruit. Two seasons in a row now we have qualified for CL football on the last day of the season. This is terrible, no it’s a disgrace. If you hire tradesmen to give your home a fmake over and they fail, do you give them more money to try again?

    Like with the England team which continually features proven failures, Arsenal is continually featuring a manager who is a proven failure.

    It’s nothing to do with stoicism and has everything to do with an unending catalogue of disappointments who under-achieve beyond the expectations of the most hardened pessimists and any hope is based on blind luck and not the managerial skills of Wenger. “IN ARSENE WE TRUST” is the mantra of people putting their faith in a gambler and a man who bluffs his way through each season.

  • Will

    Have you read arseblog this morning? Please just go and spend five minutes reading it.

  • Rupert Cook

    Yes the ref was terrible in the Villa game. He should have sent off Szeczeny for a start. As well as Vlaar. But that’s no excuse for the utter shambles of this summer’s inactivity.

    I’m wondering if the reason we don’t get major signings is the perceived status of our club. I think there’s a miasma of mediocrity hanging over us and a lack of ambition that may emanate from AFC. You can have all the money you like but if players think Arsenal’s major target is fourth every season and a run in the CL it’s hardly going to be an attractive proposition. Also selling RVP to a rival is a clear indication that it’s money first, success second and again that decision may have had more ramifications than anyone realized.

    Whatever anyone may think of Wenger, and I own that I wanted him gone years ago (that doesn’t mean I hate him or believe he deserves the stream of abuse he gets), I think he’d love to sign some top quality players but I’m afraid our years of standing still have not really aided our image which has been seriously damaged by offloading all our best players year after year.

    The club is at a crossroads and it would be too easy to heap all the blame on Wenger. Gazidis needs to be asked some serious questions about how we actually try and effect transfers. And Kronke’s intentions for our club need to be ascertained otherwise the Emirates will slowly become a museum where tourists can gather to admire the past glories of a once great club.

  • Rupert Cook

    I have read Arseblog and how gloomy it was. I’m afraid there were some very salient points there.

    I suspect that our club will be stagnating, if not declining, for some years unless Kronke notices his investment is failing him. I am seriously concerned because I don’t think the American cares one jot about Arsenal’s success on the field, all he wants is money flooding in. Of course that would be more likely if we were winning things but the fact is that we don’t even need to do that as long as the stadium is full and people keep buying merchandise and over expensive burgers.

    I really hope I’m way off the mark but I fear Kronke is the most poisonous thing to happen to us for some years.

  • Sammy The Snake

    Have the Arsenal owner, board, CEO & the manager done their best over the past few seasons. I don’t think so!

  • ande

    For arselog to be as gloomy as it was is saying something. That blog is usually a pro wennger site and his articles are very balanced (unlike here).

    I’m sorry he has hit the nail on the head again this morning and yesterday’s article. There is no excusing the shambles we find ourslves in. I mean who the heck is meant to play at CB on Wednesday…Steve Bould?

  • robl

    I’m getting a little frustrated at the ignorance of those attacking Wenger over lack of transfers. We have a board of directors who oversee the club, and it is there job to ensure the manager has everything he needs to do his job that is within their means to give him.

    It doesn’t matter how many times people say it’s Wenger and he’s blinkered or tight – this is simply not how businesses work. He reports to the board and they guide him, correct him and support him.

    Wenger is an company man in that he will never attack the club that he loves, or by extension the directors.

    Right now Gazidis and Mr Chips should be taking the flack and doing interviews to explain why they haven’t bought the players, and even if Wenger thought they were too expensive, why they haven’t overridden him and gone and got them.

    If you want to make a change write to Stan and ask him why he’s paying a board that is doing the co-efficient of bugger all whilst hanging their manager out to dry,

  • Mike Thomas

    @Rupert Cook

    I enjoy reading your comments as they are posted without the aid of rose tinted glasses.

    I know others that post on here are concerned about Kronke and I have no doubts that he, FSG at Liverpool and possibly Learner at Villa will some time soon be looking to follow the Glazers and take vast sums out of the clubs they own.

    The Utd supporters have not been able to do a thing about the money flowing out of their clubs inflated coffers and if it comes to it neither will you clubs supporters nor indeed will any minority shareholders.

    I read today that one of your ex directors launched an attack on twitter and also voiced her regret that she sold her shares to Kronke only for those tweets to be removed.

    Its only the first week of the season and a number of your first choice players are out injured but as I posted elsewhere Arsenal have registered 44 players with the EPL (that’s 18 more than Chelsea)which suggests to me that despite what AW is saying he was more than happy with the players at the club which sort of suggests that any transfers in will not have been identified till very late in the day or put another way after Saturdays game.

  • ande

    @robl, its got nothing to do with the board….the buck stops directly with Wenger. In the summer Ivan had said there was money to speand and I can’t for the life of me not get why we did not strengthen. on a weekend where all our rivals won, we are already on the back foot. Great start to the season.

  • Mike Thomas

    @ robl

    When David Dein was at Arsenal he acted almost in the role of director of football as an outsider looking in the problem is that AW has assumed not only that role but also he wants to be moral guardian of Arsenals bank balance.

    Without question the role of a manager/first team coach is to identify targets and then the movers and shakers get into getting players in. Arsenal is the only club that I have ever know to say the moneys there and the manager in effect applies the value for money test.

    It was interesting watching Sky yesterday as they talked about how when Dein was at Arsenal he managed AW but they then went on to discuss how AW is now in effect in total control of the process and even went as far as saying that there isn’t anyone at the club that is able to sack AW

    Wenger has total power at Arsenal and for that yes your directors are to blame

  • Ande I don’t think Wenger does the negotiations with individual clubs. He nominates the players he wants, but I can’t see how he personally is involved in liaison with agents and other clubs.

  • Diogenes

    I have a problem with this analogy. For one thing the people of “Albion” were still eating each others’ faces while the Romans were dusting off Greek artworks.

    Essentially Stoicism works in this context if we extract ourselves from the suffering the club causes the fan base, ie pack football in, or if a correct, virtuous judgement on the state of affairs is reached – ie stand for your belief, in perfect reasoned calm, that something you love dearly is being corrupted and hope that the powers that be can realise their ignorance and the suffering it causes.

    Stoics would be emotional and certainly the father (Wenger) would hold himself accountable – his peace depends on whether he can truly judge that he acted virtuously…

    “Our attempt to do what is right” is not there, you’re suggesting an absolute morality – the Stoics appreciated the universal reason in nature, not an ethical code of absolute right and wrong. Also, the divinity stuff is a bit out, more like the natural, logical order of the universe – this is a pagan philosophy….

    So rather than just accept our situation, it’s hugely important to engage with it and demand the change you want to see (if you have the energy).

    Ironically, Cynicism derives from Stoicism… that’s closer to my position. So much joy has been sucked out of the club and the game has become so sterile, that I’m beginning to wonder why I bother at all. False value judgements create negative emotions, the false hope promised by the club has left everyone deflated.

    Unshackle yourselves from the conceits of the club, don’t let them take you for granted!!

  • ande

    @walter, do you know any of the people below in the interview?

  • ande

    @Tony, The below extract from le grove is spot on:

    “Wenger is an incredibly selfish man. Once again, he’s made this whole transfer window about himself and his vision of what a football team should be. He has scant regards for the fanbase and the realities of what’s needed to compete at the highest level. There is no excuse for yesterday. The football season started then, not on September 3rd. Aston Villa went quietly about their business. They bought 7 players, of which one played yesterday and scored. The did their business early. Lambert had a plan. He only played one new player because he wanted the new guys to soak up the atmosphere of a game rather than deep end them.
    That’s a guy with a plan and a vision. Not even an incredible one. Just an idea of what he wants to do.
    What did Arsene do yesterday? Turned up under prepared. No dressing room buzz. A deflated stadium of season ticket holders. A squad depleted through sales and injuries.
    That game was the nightmare Wenger should have had a month ago”

    Although I am not huge fan of le grove I believe there is no way in the world anyoe cannot balme wenger for this pathetic start. To add to that we now have injuries piling up like it’s no mans business.

  • Stroller

    I fear stoicism is going to be needed by the bucketful this season. This summer was always going to be pivotal as to whether we took a big step forward and became genuine title challengers or started slipping back further into the pack. Right now the latter looks by far the more likely.

    In football more of the same is never an option unless you are sitting at the top. We are not on a steady evolutionary path upwards, the gap has been widening year by year. The reality is that we have spent more time looking in fear at those behind us than in anticipation of overhauling those above.

    Arsene Wenger has done a superb job for the club in keeping our heads above water over a period of financial constraint, a fact not recognised by his die-hard critics. But now, when bold moves were widely heralded by the club, the ball has been dropped in spectacular fashion. Inevitably fate has conspired to make matters worse by inflicting more injuries on an already lightweight squad.

    Who is responsible? The usual suspects immediately pounce on Wenger. He won’t spend. He has delayed. He is deluded in believing we don’t need to buy. I don’t believe that. Managers don’t directly handle transfers these days. More likely it is a matter of the club lacking the contacts and skill sets needed to close deals at the top end of the market after so many years being out of it. Hence the Jovetic and Higuain deals being allowed to slip away and the bungled ‘contract clause’ bid for Suarez.

    Arsenal are club most players would still like to join, and if the necessary money is available it can only be human failings in brokering the deals the foul it up.

  • Linz

    Mike Thomas,the journo Matt Scott who is a big arsenal fan (his great grandad played for the club) met Kroenke,and one of his assistants said to Matt that he couldn’t believe the fuss made about the idea of an owner taking profits out of a club.Make of that what you will.

  • Stroller


    When George Graham was fired over the bung scandal, the Club announced that no future manager would have direct dealings with agents over transfers. At that point David Dein took over the wheelings and dealings with agents and other clubs. Whatever his other failings, this was was something he did rather well if the quality of imports over that period is anything to go by. I am not advocating his return to the club by the way, but isn’t he the type of person lacking right now?

  • Edu

    hello folks in regards as to whether all is lost the answer to that is a definite NO! the transfer window isn’t closed and we’ve got loads of cash in the whoever is in-charge of ‘negotiations’ a the club should spend some f…. money for the sake of the rest of the season..all we’re left to do is hostile take-over of players i.e rooney,eto’o,fellaini,baines a golie and whatever remains of the cash sign david dein.i have to be honest this is a desparate and frustrated post.PS @ TONY what do you make of the current developments in team arsenal,was our pre-season of any benefit?

  • ande

    I have lost count of the amount of players that have been calling for new signings. Does this mean they are not confident enough to achieve victories on their own? Perhaps not.

  • robl

    @ Mike & Ande,

    Don’t be drawn in, not even Steve Jobs or Bill Gates had that much unregulated control of their companies.

    Whatever anyone choses to write about Wenger being a dictator, it can’t happen with a business this size due to corporate governance.

    I’m not saying he’s an angel, I’m pointing out that their are people hiding who’s job it is to direct and police him and look over his shoulder.

  • ande

    @Robl, I have to disagree as the manager has a part to play, of course, in convincing a potential signing of their vision for the team, but generally they cannot be blamed for targets accepting a better financial package from elsewhere or because the club has not moved quickly enough. Throughout the summer we have had all these promises, to what avail?
    No one is asking for mega signings, well one would be nice.

  • Edu

    i’ve just watched some post-game videos of arsnal fans expressing their feelings of arsenals performance and i’m left with the feeling is everyone else wrong about the running of arsenal except those that think arsene,the almighty board knows best? lady nina-smith the honorary vice-chair of arsenal regrets selling her shares to stan according to the press-how about seems stan is turning out to be the bitter option instead of the better option to usmanov..then the question begs ‘where would we be with usmanov at the helm’?

  • Matt

    @ Tony

    Whoever does the negotiation of players it’s not working very well. Are you pleased with the transfer window and start to the season? Does it not feel like something very strange is going on at the club to you? Is Wenger not a man under huge pressure at the moment?

  • ande

    There is plenty of blame being laid in the lap of Ivan Gazidis and i lay it there also BUT do not forget he was quoted in saying that Arsene has the money there if he needs it. This is down to Arsene Wenger, his reluctance to spend, his reluctance to bring big players into the side who he cannot control and his neglagence to study the opposition and have basic tactical formalities in place. Unfortunately we will all need to battern down the hatches because if this manager is allowed to continue in his position for the remainder of the season we really are in for a rough ride. Managers are available now, Mancini, heynkes etc. People who can come in, sort out the backline and bring stability to the side. We can then use this season to rebuild and start installing a winning mentality back into the players, the fans and more importantly the club. Arsene Wenger should be disgusted with himself for the way he has allowed this shambles to continue for 4 seasons now.

  • Mick

    @Rupert Cook
    A red card was not appropriate for Szeczeny. A red card is issued for denying a goal scoring opportunity and/or violent play. It was not violent play and as you would have seen if you watched the game Villa had an opportunity to score when the advantage was given to them by Taylor but the player hit the side netting. Strictly speaking if the laws had been interpreted correctly a goal kick to Arsenal was the correct call as the advantage given to Villa was not capitalized on. The key word is opportunity, which Villa did have. That should have been the end of it, Taylor should not have allowed the advantage and then given the penalty.
    I am sure Walter will confirm this if he hasn’t already.

  • ande This is how 95% of real fans feel Absolute quality!

  • Arsenal never intended to spend money in the transfer window it was all a charade played out by the mock bid on Suarez.

  • Edu

    guys liking this arsenal fc fan talk on youtube,check it out

  • ande

    Knives will be out if there is anything other than win on wednesday. I still think this team needs quality players to make top 4 – the confidence is absolutely shattered and you can see this emenating from the fans.

  • Edu

    @ ande
    some more of arsenal’s fans feelings

  • Stuart

    optimist habila, re your 8.16am comment.

    A boycott would be a much better idea than people turning up and booing (if I had to choose). If people have to make some kind of a demonstration, the best thing would be to stay away and affect the matchday income. Turning up and booing only has a negative effect causing more reason for these people to boo.

  • Edu

    @ walter
    your fellow country man do you know him by any chance?

  • Gooner S

    @ Ande

    I’ve said this before. I don’t believe that Wenger is solely culpable for not bringing in anybody. I’m not saying he is blameless. The responsibility is with Gazidis and whomever he nominates commercially to complete the deals. You reference Gazidis statement in June. That was a covering your backside statement. Now consider this… there is clearly something going on behind the scenes otherwise why was Gazidis stating this? Extraordinary thing to say and it immediately put the price up when we came calling!

    How do you or I know it is Wenger’s reluctance to spend? How do you or I know that it isn’t Gazidis and his team royally f***ing it up? If Wenger is a ditherer around transfers then the board and Gazidis should be putting processes in place to deal with this and help Wenger. It isn’t all down to Wenger. I repeat I don’t think he is blameless but people should stop and think just a little.

    As for some of your other comments…This manager has won titles, cups and has enabled AFC to compete in the top 4 since he arrived. To question his competence around tactics is just daft.

  • Rupert Cook

    @Mick, blatant foul in the area. Szezceny should have gone. And who knows if he had have done we might not have conceded another two.

  • Rich

    Even if Wenger isn’t responsible for transfer negotiations (which I’m not convinced about), he sure as hell is responsible for clearing out the deadwood and sidelining players without having adequate replacements.

    Bendtner and Gervinho are hardly world beaters but they would have offered us far more squad depth than a young French player yet to make his debut in the Premier League and recovering from injury.

    This was equally true for the sales of Nasri and Song in the last two years.

    Whichever way we cut it the manager must take a significant portion of the blame. The problem being that the Board seem content to let this mess continue.

  • Mick

    I suggest you familiarise yourself with the rules old son. Blatant foul does not equal red card as you (should)well know. As I said,goal scoring opportunity NOT denied, certainly not violent play, yellow card therefore correct. Qualify your assertion please, in line with the laws.

  • Rupert Cook

    @ande 12.48, I love that guy. Giving it both barrels, the only thing he forgot was to aim some vitriol at Kronke. He may be way off the mark with some of his comments but you have to admire his passion.

  • Edu

    i’m sorry to say this but i predict an arsenal fans revolt i the status quo doesn’t change

  • Rupert Cook

    @Mick, are you telling me you’ve never seen a player sent off for bringing a player down in the box, blatant goal scoring chance or not? I admit I don’t know every rule but it seems several other commentators said the same thing. Maybe we all don’t know the rules and judging by some decisions the ref made I’m not sure he does either.

  • gunnerdamu

    Am a very strong arsenal fan in Kenya and I can you tell that i have always been enjoying their games even when they were not winning trophies.There has been frustrations but i have been positive because i thought that arsenal and Arsene were building a team for the future and that they were handicapped by stadium loans. Now sponsorship has started coming in and stadium generates substantial revenue,i thought that this was the time for arsenal to show their hand in the transfer market this season.
    What happened last weekend was not a surprise;it was coming because arsenal did not plan for this season and when you do not plan,you definitely fail.
    Walter and Tony, i like your positivity but for the good of your health ,forget about this season irrespective of what arsenal does in the transfer market.Just support the team but do not expect much.There will be no CL(Fer will eliminate us),no FA and CC trophies because our squad is very thin,there will be no CL next season because Liverpool or Spurs will take 4th is trophy.I know some of you are not happy but the truth is bitter anyway.

  • ande

    @Mick, It does not matter about rules and Refs. The whole idea is that we had the same starting 11 that played at newcastle at the end of last season,

  • ande

    So we’re led to believe that signings are coming? that there may be a chain reaction from the sale of Bale (we hope,) but even if that turns out to be true then it is still ridiculous. New signings would have taken us into the Villa game full of confidence and buzzing, the stadium and fans would have been loving having football back, we’d have been delighted at the Giroud goal and pushed on, instead there was a level of pressure and vitriol just under the surface waiting to explode. That boiled over as soon as Villa scored, the goal itself brought about be the simple fact that Arteta is injured and we have NO replacement, that and the fact that we haven’t gone and got Cesear from down the road. We would not have conceded that goal. That led to the players playing under horrible tension from their own fans (rightly so) and feeling so much pressure on the opening day! I would almost say that this in-avertedly led to the Ox getting injured, we shouldn’t have been chasing the game. Yes it could have happened at anytime but it came when we chasing a game that we should have been putting safe instead of attempting to make up for idiot goal keeping and poor defensive midfield play. This is directly ‘the managements’ fault. Imagine we lose the league by 3 points! as laughable as that is, it will be the managements fault for not sorting this, its scary! why have we lost all the youth players? almost 30 players gone, do we have any money? Sounds similar to Leeds! maybe there is NO money. Our first team on = 24 players, 5 of them are proper injured, 5 more are suspected injured, the players left include Bendtner (seriously) Park (honest), Frimpong, Sanogo and Ryo!! Something very very weird is happening at our club. I/we want some honesty!!!

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Wow ! Awesome lesson rendered Blacksheep – worthy of the title of AKB Extraordinaire !
    As for the non believers –
    1)No guard rails around lakes( Probably stolen by the AAA and melted down to make BBQ rods !) .
    2)lake currents( Presumably started by all that AAA hot air!).
    3) absent life guards (Getting it on with the water nymphs ?).
    4) Parents not willing to spend some fucking money and kids not given swimming lessons nor life jackets ?

    I thought I’d heard it all ! Apparently not ! Thanks for the laughs guys – intended or not !

    If I were to ponder upon it , my question would be ,” How many AAAs would take to pull the plug at the bottom of the lake ? Would they even try ?” Would they care ?

    I liked to think that they all died ( what’s that cheering ?), not trying ,but complaining and took in so much water (through their big mouths ) which saved the boy and thus made the world a better place ! Yah ! Get out the flags and buntings ,lads !

    For those who wanted to know where Jonah’s whale or (free) Willy (for the youngsters !) were it should be reminded that lakes are freshwater and AW would not have advocated such a drastic move !
    Here I’d go out’ on a limb’ to say with certainty that Ahab’s sperm whale meanwhile was being BBQed( termed Moby Dicking in those days !) with those stolen rods by the AAA. How did I know that ? It was from our inside man- let’s call him Ishmael
    Likewise to those who ask where Captain Nemo and the Nautilus were – they both were in dry dock in Switzerland
    having their carbuncles and barnacles removed off their respective bottoms!

  • ande

    @Brickfields Gunners
    August 19, 2013 at 1:47 pm

    Are you okay? You need a pill? Or you can’t wake up to the reality of the pathetic way this club is being run?

  • Mick

    Of course I’ve seen a player sent of in the box but usually when the correct circumstances apply, they didn’t in the case we are talking about. I would add that we could have had a penalty when Wilshere was ‘fouled’ and definitely should have had one when Mertesacker was climbed all over in the first half.

  • Perhaps, the most interesting outcome of last Saturday event was how little stick the ref got for his bad calls. I somehow think that the ref is embolden by the whining of some arsenal fans and their yearning for a loss to vindicate their position on how the club should be run. The ref was not living in a media vacuum and he must be conscious of the incessant and actually rather scandalous campaign being propagated against the club and its management for running their business as they see fit. It would be generally taken as a given that private entities should be run as the owners see fit. Well, except with Arsenal. The entire British media and every half-wit with a keyboard and Internet access want the club to carry out its business as they want, while hoping or threating fire and brimstone if they don’t. How can any ref ever get into trouble for kicking such a club in the nuts?

    The sheer amount of noise on Arsenal’s signings this pre-season and the threats by the club’s ‘fans’ are enough to give the refereee some assurance that no matter how badly he treats the team, a section of the fans as well as virtually the entire British media will ignore his atrocities on the pitch and rather blame the victim, for you know, “not signing 3-4 world class players”.

    Would the ref had done the same against Celseas at the Stamford Bridge when Chelsea fans weren’t sobbing everyday about how sad life is because their club wouldn’t do one thing or the other to make them feel secure and happy? Of course not. I don’t recall even small teams getting such treatment away from home as we got on Saturday.

    I read a Villan blogger’s report on the match and while applauding his team, he acknowledged that the ref royally screwed up but rather than gooners uniting to call out the robbery, the usual suspects see it as a vindication of their pre-season rantings.

    What I expect next (and these guys never disappoint me) is for them to claim that Wenger is only signing players because of this result. You can always count on them to carry on like he hasn’t been saying all along that new players will arrive before TW closes. They will talk like players are signed in a couple of days, you know, like buying stuff off but only quicker 🙂

    A house divided cannot stand but that’s only because there are usually saboteurs wrecking it from inside. I remain grateful that these people have no say in how Arsenal is run.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    @ Ande – Thanks for asking , I feel well ! How are you doing?
    I had started writing the above much earlier as to reply to the earlier posters and may have come in it before the fireworks started .
    My posts are usual tongue in cheek and whimsical .I don’t get into personal arguments with anyone and rarely reply to those who misunderstand me.
    But saying this I did go through all those I’d missed while typing( am a single finger typer!),and did enjoy your posts. My just happened to come in the wrong(?) time as to look as I were overtly critical – shit happens !
    Let me say that I’m disappointed at what transpired last weekend but am reserving judgement till the dust settles .
    Blowing more smoke just clouds the issue !
    Cheers !

  • So super coaches, if we buy wont we dare lose any game again? And advise Wenger who to buy because you guys know better I think we could buy a whole QPR team because they did wonders.
    So no any other team is going to lose a match this season? I wonder what type of Animals you are. Did you watch the match or you where dreaming? How many of our players got injured? Taylor, I like England because if he was on another continent he would have caused a lot of problem to the spectators. Its terrible that they don’t track phones but with what Taylor had on his mind, its high time somebody do something. But who? You will never win with the Mafioso.
    You give an advantage and then come back and give a penalty??
    I know sewer rats are always in the sewers but I expect them to have eyes.
    If you cant stand the Arsenal this season look for another team. Simple

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    I hope that the media frenzy/fan vitriol dies down a bit, the team( and manager) need our support for Wednesday, and those lads are feeling the heat of all this and Fenerbahce wont lie down and it’s a cauldron of intimidation in their stadium.
    Whether Wenger stays or goes I want to see the team go beyond this part of the CL.and much further,and all this isnt helping them.
    ps.Cheers Brickfields for always trying to put a smile on our faces and trying to keep things level headed.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    @ Kenneth Widmerpool – Thanks – was just about to try and explain the names and terms I used to educate the younglings,
    but I ‘ll let the oldies enjoy the literary references .
    You know what they say ,” A prophet is never accepted in his own …..”
    Not that I’m claiming anything !

  • Matt


    What a load of complete cobblers. So the ref and fans are in cahoots together to make Wenger the scapegoat?

    He decides on the squad,he decides on who plays,he decides on tactics. He decided not to sign any new players this year and to let 17 players leave the club leaving us short on players and quality. Nobody else did that not the fans not the AAA and not the ref.

    All clubs get good and bad descisions during the season these are things out of the control of the club.We need to concern ourselves as a club that we can control not the things we cant.

    You need to get out of that bubble and get in the real world. People genuinely cant understand why we have been allowed to get in the position we have and are genuinely angered by it it’s not just to wind you up.

  • bjtgooner

    At the end of last season I did advise that the AAA planned to attack AW on the transfer policy. This was because the AAA were frustrated by our end of season undefeated run and our entrance into the CL qualification stage – so their planned end of season attack on AW was remoulded for the transfer season.

    Unfortunately the club have played right into their hands by failing (for whatever reason) to bring in reinforcements in good time. Consequently we are critically short of numbers for the CL qualification matches and may even exit the CL – not a good outlook. No wonder the AAA scum are joyously jingoistic. Now they have a real complaint to use against AW – their purpose to get AW out – why? – because he is seen as a road block to the ambitions of an overfed gentleman from eastern Europe. They wrongly believe that the overfed gentleman would pour his fortune into the club.

    I do not understand why the club failed to get even part of the transfer business done early, there may have been a good explanation, but, if I was paranoid, which I am not, I could be excused for thinking that some clubs were paid not to sell to us.

    Would additional resources have helped us against the thugs from Villa? – it is hard to argue that additional resources would not have helped – even with an unbelievable referee.

    With regard to Taylor, was this Riley’s revenge for the introduction of goal mouth technology? Does Riley fear the spread of technology throughout the game and resents Arsenal’s part in supporting it? Certainly, Taylor appeared to be under orders (or was being paid) to screw us. Will Riley now send him to the 3rd division as he would do if he gave a penalty against MU (even a legit one)? – or will Taylor be rewarded?

    Stoicism is unfortunately necessary for Arsenal fans just now, but it is a correct aspiration to expect a better deal from those who are in charge of the PGMOL and further for the Club to quickly put right what has been a disastrous transfer season so far. We need to reinforce a number of positions at once otherwise we will spiral downwards.

  • Matt,

    Sorry but I don’t want to have this conversation with you. Life is too short to be spent flogging a dead horse!

  • Wenger: ‘We feel sorry and disappointed’

    Dear Arsenal supporter,

    It was a big disappointment to lose the game on Saturday. We started the game well and then suddenly everything went against us so it is a big blow. Not only did we lose the game but we have a few injuries and many kicks. However, we had some lively moments and kept going until the end and that’s what we have to focus on and forget the referee. Even when we had 10 men we had chances to come back to 2-2.

    We were all very disappointed. We want our fans to be happy. When you don’t achieve that, you feel absolutely sorry and really disappointed.

    In terms of transfers, we were on the market before the game and we are on the market after the game. But I have to look at the solution at the start of the game. Could we have won the game with the players we have? I say yes.

    We take our work seriously and believe me, we analyse every single player in the world. We work 24 hours a day for that. When we make decisions, we take it seriously. People try to think we do not want to spend. We want to. We are ready to buy players.

    The team are now focused on Wednesday night and getting a positive result against Fenerbahce in Istanbul. It is a crucial match of course, and we will give everything we can to succeed there.

    Thanks for your support,

    Arsene Wenger’s signature

    Arsène Wenger

  • Matt

    @ Bootomee

    Cant be that short for you because you continually keep saying the same things yourself.

    You just have a different point of view.

  • Ash79


    I thought i had seen it all, but that is the most dumbest most disgraceful comment i’ve ever read. I wish you didnt support my club.

    Disgrace of a man.

  • MoW

    Here’s a question. If I’m concerned by the way the club is managed, in particular that:
    1. We lack ambition by allowing our squad to become less competitive vs our rivals over the last 8 years; while
    2. Simultaneously posting profits and hoarding cash; while
    3. Simulanteously increasing ticket prices so we are more or less the most expensive club in the world; while
    4. Not winning any silverware
    And I level criticism at the club management, does that make me an AAA?

  • alex

    Arsene is very much confident with the quality and quantity of the squad. My opinion is the last 10 unbeaten run during the previous season became proof beyond doubt. So in his theory is needed only some big name. Hence the lack of any sort of transfer activities. As it unfolded on the Villa game without a recognised defensive midfield the team is dysfunctional. The recognised player in that position is Arteta. To rely on a 31 year old player for 55 games without adequate replacement is beyond belief. On top of that Coquelin (sorry spelling) loaned.

    I don’t get it.

    In Arsene world this is the team that can challenge and only marky

  • alex

    Arsene is very much confident with the quality and quantity of the squad. My opinion is the last 10 unbeaten run during the previous season became proof beyond doubt. So in his theory is needed only some big name. Hence the lack of any sort of transfer activities. As it unfolded on the Villa game without a recognised defensive midfield the team is dysfunctional. The recognised player in that position is Arteta. To rely on a 31 year old player for 55 games without adequate replacement is beyond belief. On top of that Coquelin (sorry spelling) loaned.

    I don’t get it.

    In Arsene world this is the team that can challenge and only marquee signing is what is needed.

  • Doublegooner

    Most of you Arsene Disciples seem the types who would stay in a burning house thinking you’ll be safe when everyone is leaving the front door to safety.

    Wenger, Gazidis & Kroenke have mismanaged Arsenal FC.

    The fans who go week in, week out, year in year out are being short changed.

    I those 000’s of PAYING fans are not happy and have every damm right to express their feelings because they see Wenger not doing his job, Gazidis & Kroenke are not doing what’s best in footballing terms for the club.

    I’m sorry to say., if you don’t/can’t/never attend matches for whatever reason, only been supporting since 1998 then you are not as important supporters who pay their money year in & year out home & away.

    The club are now being forced to recognise there is major dissent.

    Untolders..The days of milk & honey are long gone.

  • Tasos

    “I’m sorry to say., if you don’t/can’t/never attend matches for whatever reason, only been supporting since 1998 then you are not as important supporters who pay their money year in & year out home & away”.

    What’s it like living up there in that Ivory Tower?

  • Doublegooner


    Its reality mate.

  • Tasos

    Delusions of grandeur mate.

  • Doublegooner


    Talk about pot calling.

    There’s more delusion here than any other Arsenal Blog.

  • Ash79,

    What are you crying about? Is it by force to have a conversation on the Internet.

    Your comment about me as a man confirms you as a retard.

  • Matt,

    Are you a stalker? I said I don’t want to have a conversation with you. It can’t be forced. Please let it go.

    How I spend my time, what I write with it and who I spend it conversing with is strictly my choice. Please let it go.

    Thank you.

  • sperez

    The saboteur is Arsene Wenger and he has a say in how the club is run. That’s why Arsenal are shambles on and off the pitch. Years of mismanagement would eventually catch up.

  • Doublegooner


    Sssshh. The guys on here have no idea anything’s wrong !

  • sperez,

    You are right as usual. How can I debate you? I bow to your logic and intelligence. Now please let it go. You win.

  • Notoverthehill


    Good for you, supporting The Arsenal after a defeat. THAT is way real supporters feel. WE WILL SHOW THE MORONS!!!

    Saboteur, shambles, years of mismanagement. The lexicon of a non-supporter.

    The Arsenal Supporters’ Trust have only about 1067 members. How puny. How many shares in The Arsenal, 1 Orphan share and perhaps 2 or 3 in the Fanshare. How pathetic.

    The AISA is a far better organisation, who have over 8,000 members.

    Steve Powell must be regretting his role in setting up the AST. The Executive Committee is not fit for purpose.

  • Yassin

    No, we are the type of people who would stay in a burning house to ensure all our family and friends are out, even if we die trying….
    We are the kind of people who would die for a cause instead of going with the stream no matter what it is….
    We will not accept anyone to come here and fool our mind that the ref had nothing to do with our loss of the match or the injured players, and we will not accept this after eight years of trying to fool us.

    If some here would like to blame Wenger for losing go do it somewhere else, stop trying to bring us down and the players with us….. Its enough, justice shall be served, this is not acceptable that you come here and you don’t want to see the effect of the ref on all our previous matches and still try to convince us with your blind.
    We will not accept you coming here and playing the record of the media which hates Arsenal for no reason just to fool us.
    We will not accept that we as Arsenal fan should leave our class and support for our club and turn on it win its an agenda everybody can see.
    You can call Wenger a failure for not buying anybody till now, or you can see how the media everybody is trying with their powers to destroy what we opted for since eight years, and be fooled buy that, but please do it somewhere else we don’t like your type here!

  • Mahdain

    After successfully accomplishing his mission Anthony Taylor has been given a week off for his holiday in Dubai due to his fantastic work at the Emirates

  • Doublegooner


    Your name might suggest you’re not, 000’s disagree about our manager & the footballing decisions of our CEO & absent ‘cash collecting’ owner.

    Have a lovely evening.

  • Notoverthehill,

    It is a tough time to be a Gooner but I’m sticking with my team. Others could write a thesis on how the team should be run but all I can REALLY do is support the team.

    There is no time when that is needed than when the team is down. You hear people say they hope we score early so that the fans can get behind the team. Pathetic! It is when the team is down or looking for a goal that the fans should be noisiest.

    Come what may, my support for this team shall not waiver.

  • bjtgooner

    @Yassin, Notoverthehill, Mahdain & Bootoomee

    Good comments. The half brained disgraced xenophobic doubledoomer is not worth worrying about – the sort of self appointed anti-fan that no club needs. He should have been red carded long ago.

    Interesting point about Taylor, the official story is that he has been dropped after his criminally poor performance on Saturday. If his unsatisfactory performance has been officially recognised, can we have Kos’s red rescinded and also the match replayed?

  • Mahdain

    @btjgooner The sewer rats are not worth my time and hence why i tend to ignore them and skip through their comments seeing as its the same repetitive bollox everyday. I just wish Tony and Walter would ban some of them already so they can take their poisonous drivel somewhere else

  • Stroller

    Regardless of what’s posted by most sensible contributors there are the same few who can only respond in one way. To have a go at the club, Wenger in particular, and sneer at anybody else who doesn’tfollow their line.

    As far as they are concerned the future of the club is a straightforward conflict between two opposite opinions, and the way to approach it is to repeat the same thing louder and louder to drown the others out. The have decided what/who the problem is, but have no idea about the solution other to get rid of Wenger

    All so predictable and shallow.

  • Mahdain

    @Stroller my thoughts exactly. I do wonder how do these lot avoid throwing themselves under moving vehicles while crossing the road seeing how miserable they seem to be. Its as if there are no other things to worry about in their lives.

  • Stroller

    The other thing about them is their presumption that anyone who doesn’t agree must be some sort of happy-clappy sycophant (an AKB is the term) who doesn’t care if we win or lose, doesn’t feel concern if things aren’t going well, and doesn’t care if things don’t improve. Nothing is further from the truth in my case and most probably others too, but clearly we’re not angry or bitter enough to vent our bile on the club and the manager in a completely negative way.

  • Arvind

    It’s most unfortunate .. the amount of dross that is discussed here. The refereee was bad..obviously. That apart…there’s a few more things that impacted yesterday’s game.

    a) Gibbs got injured. No it wasn’t “predictable”. It was a gash on the eye which has nothing to do with his previous injuries. Monreal was injured too. Of course we could have bought a 3rd left back who played 2 games a season, but that doesn’t make sense.

    b) AOC who was (based on commentary) playing really well got injured and Cazorla had to come on much earlier than needed. Lukas could have come on…sure.. but I’m guessing AW wanted to keep the ball more.

    c) The 2nd non-penalty. Walter..are you tracking these things this season? I can try and track a little bit in my own basic ways if you like.

    d) Kos sending off which was so so predictable. Decimate an already screwed defense as much as possible.

    e) Sagna injury was a bonus for the refs.

    Whatever you do guys…try and stay united. It doesn’t matter what and who is to blame and whether you’re right and everyone else is a fool. In the end if we keep fighting this way…it’s the club that’s affected and Arsenal that’s hurt. And bar a few trolls and a few poisonous AAA.. I’m sure a lot want the best for the football.

    I doubt any one is going to listen…but I’m trying…just for the sake of keeping discussion relevant and respectful.. like the old days on this site.

  • bjtgooner


    Good post.

  • Yassin

    @ Arvind,
    Spot on mate, I am the first to listen, there is no problem on this site with discussion, i like the debates here between balanced minded people, even if their opinion is not like mine, but those coming and speaking media talks they hear from an anti arsenal pundit, i dont want to consider them an Arsenal fan.

    Its like a family, we may argue between each other, and fight, but when someone from the outside try to touch one of us, we should unite against him, and in the Aston Villa game, everybody blamed the club and forgot all the other stuff the ref and media made….. Here i cant accept that.
    When i am. Watching my favorite team playing, and playing well and i see a great future and then out of a sudden this ref tilt the game so obviously, i get really angry, and then i come here to discuss with fellow gooners, and out of a sudden someone naming him self a gooner comes out and start saying we are deluded because we blame the ref.
    If someone cant see a bias so obvious like that against Arsenal, he aint a gooner, that is logic….

  • Doublegooner

    bjtgooner, mahdain,

    Why should Tony & Walter ban people like me ?

    Do I personally insult you/ have I called you scum or a sewer rat or whatever ?

    If not, get a life and grow up.

    They’d look a little silly banning people because you find their opinion completely abhorent from yours.

    I would imagine my total support of this club would put you to shame.

    You possible have never or only occasionally seen the team play & like many who’ve started supporting a club post 1998 because it was fashionable to do so think it disrespectful to say anything that resembles criticism of the manager or the absent owner.

    I have followed this club in the flesh home & away for decades sacrificing work on wet midweek rainy evenings, chearing the team on.

    Have you managed to get 000’s singing when the team was getting beat ? Doubt it.

    Have you spent hours making banners like 2002 Old Trafford Champions Section’ ( assuming you know what that was ) & the 2004 IMMORTAL P38 L0 which the stewards tried to stop us putting up until we told them to clear off? I doubt it.

    Have you ever been to the slum in N17 stood next to them sung your heart out, or passed an inflatable PL trophy to the players to celebrate with then get planted on their centre circle ? I doubt it.

    So I dont need a pair of panto queens like you two calling me Anti Arsenal because I choose not to be subservient & ‘just back the team’ because I do not agree with the manager & owners policy. I refuse to to give up my tickets because I am Arsenal til I die.

    I have never met Tony or Walter and do not agree with their views in the same way they’d disagree with mine however I take my hat off to them for the historical work and knowledge they provide.

    So unless you can get them to ban me, you’re have to carry on enduring me here when I want to comment.


  • bjtgooner


    I don’t like scum who back-stab the manager or team – as you have done for quite some time. I don’t prima donnas or xenophobes – so if Walter/Tony allow you to continue to pollute this site, be prepared for retaliation.

  • Florian


    There is no denying that things are going wrong, but do you really think your poisonous words will help in any measure? How about harboring a banner with “In Wenger we trust”, instead of bashing the club?

  • Brickfields Gunners

    @ Arvind- nice comments .Not to worry , there are many who share your hopes and will always be behind the club .
    Don’t waste your time trying to “debate with the deluded”, who are here only here to try to piss us off ,but the are failing miserably.
    Keep the faith – we have been here before .
    Up the Gunners !

  • Florian

    @Brickfield, I was joking, I don’t expect anything good from a sewer rat like Double****er. Just wanted to get a measure of his stupidity. Glad I didn’t so far:D Cheers.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Just posting this here because rats were mentioned !

    Psychology class joke !

    The professor showed a large cage with a male rat in it. The rat was in the middle of the cage. Then, the professor placed a piece of cake on one side and kept a female rat on the other side. The male rat ran towards the cake and ate it.

    The Professor then changed the cake and replaced it with some bread. The male rat ran towards the bread. This experiment went on with the professor changing the food every time. And, every time, the male rat ran towards the food item and never towards the female rat.

    Professor said: “This experiment shows that food is the greatest strength and attraction.”
    Then, one of the students from the back rows said:

    “Sir, why don’t you change the female rat? She may be his wife!!!”

  • Brickfields Gunners

    @ Florian – posted the above before reading your comments, somehow seems very apt !
    OOOp !OOOP ! Who let the rats out ! OOOp ! OOOp !

  • blacksheep63

    thanks Diogenes, I wrote the piece, as all of them on philosophy football, with my tongue firmly in my cheek and your response is thoughtful and appreciated. Personally I have a have Nordic understanding of fate rather than a classical one and so believe in choices.

    However, as regards Arsenal the father is not AW but us, the fans; Wenger (and the board) can do plenty to change the situation but we can only support.We could protest, complain, boo, etc but it won’t effect a change for the better in my view. It is just my opinion of course, but at this time I stand by my conclusion even if my cod philosophy is a bit suspect at times.

  • Doublegooner


    Let me know when you’re next performing as the village idiot & I’ll bring a crowd for an evening’s entertainment.

  • Doublegooner


    I don’t like scum who back-stab the manager or team – as you have done for quite some time. I don’t prima donnas or xenophobes – so if Walter/Tony allow you to continue to pollute this site, be prepared for retaliation.


    Firstly. I don’t back stab the manager.

    I make it perfectly clear as I have done for a very long time that the manager is wrong for this club now.

    Seems you don’t like very much about anyone connected with The Arsenal unless they worship Wenger & Kroenke.

    BTW: I assume that wasn’t you standing behind Arsene with the Spend Spend Spend sign ? 🙂

  • bjtgooner


    You are also a two faced double talking liar – you have back stabbed the manager/team etc for quite some time. You are a very poor excuse for a fan – if you really are a fan – that is open to question.

  • Florian


    Did you do anything good in your life, ever?

  • Doublegooner

    bjtgooner & others.

    I supposed here’s another ‘AKB’ I’m sure you dislike & disrespects !