By Tony Attwood
A naysayer…
A person who frequently engages in excessive complaining, negative banter and/or a totally poor and downbeat attitude.
Naysayers view the glass not so much as half empty as bone dry, make frequent one-way trips downhill, and constantly emphasize the worst of every situation.
They have the capacity to whinge [British – means whine] and rant for hours and hours and hours and hours, (and go on and on and on and on) and as a result not surprisingly they tend to travel alone, spreading their pessimistic darkness to unsuspecting bystanders while all the time encouraging others to employ their mindset.
Naysayers always try to blend in with those around them, adapting like weasels [shifty, scheming creatures who will do whatever they need to to escape whatever they fear in the moment] having learned over the years to adapt to their surroundings in order to continue their rampant negativity.
However, when the opportunity arises, their true nature will be exposed and they will stop at nothing to bring a general sense of awfulness and no-hopery to any situation.
Their nemesis [A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent] are the non-naysayers who fight against the Darkness brought forth by the evil naysayers, make the best of a situation and not afraid to call out a naysayer on the spot.
Arsenal deserve praise and praise again for the way they took on the Evil Oil Barons of the Middle East And All Their Dosh, showing determination, drive, personality, and that funny (but ill-defined) recent invention of personality theory, mental strength.
But what they missed totally, and what they will always miss, was the uprising of spirit, determination, drive and unity by the crowd in the Whatever Have The Emirates Done For Us Stadium.
It was a really superb atmosphere; they gave it their all, and we gave it our all. I know from the time recently when I was off sick, and couldn’t get to the games, that the atmosphere of the Whatever Stadium doesn’t come across on TV, but it really was good on Saturday night.
And so, as I have suggested, Drew drove us back to Northampton at approaching (but thankfully for the future not just of the Earth but also of the entire multi-verse, never exceeding) the speed of light, and thence I immediately changed cars and drove to Daventry, for one of the highlights of the dancing calendar – the Red Hot and Sultry jive and blues gig in the aforementioned town.
Perhaps I was uplifted by the afternoon, perhaps it was the fact that the smaller dances I did my stuff at on Thursday and Friday were great fun and went well, with some kind complements thrown in… but whatever the antecedents it was one of those nights where every time one attempts to leave the dance floor (and for the Daventry event it is a truly massive dance arena and thus leaving the dance floor is an effort in itself) one is asked by another charming lady to return to the centre of throng and shake it all about (or words to that effect).
And it was as I packed up finally to drive home as the clocks lept forwards (they do that in the EU about this time of year) that I thought, I bet those silly naysayers, don’t even know how to jive.
Dance in general, and jive in particular, can of course be a real event, as it was last night, or it can be a metaphor for all that is good and active in the world – all that is the antithesis of the naysayers. And so it was from the kickoff inside the Whatever Stadium through to the moment I said my farewells and left the dance floor.
It was a truly great day – and something those naysayers will never come to understand let alone experience. And it makes me pleased I was born with a sunnier disposition.
With thanks to the truly engaging Urban Dictionary
- Woolwich Arsenal: The club that changed football – Arsenal’s early years
- Making the Arsenal – how the modern Arsenal was born in 1910
- The Crowd at Woolwich Arsenal
I do listen to sport shit on rare occasions, thats if i am driving the car and to be honest some of the debates especially with Stan on footballing matters is very interesting.
Naysayers could well be split into two different species:
Journalsts…a sponge. Absorbs a great deal of water but has no brain.
“Fans” ….Bluebottle, otherwise known as the Portugese Man of War. A jellyfish with a very painful sting but like the sponge, absolutely no brain at all.
Various other creatures with no brains also exist, mainly worms.
From the link I was using to watch the game I could hear our supporters loud and clear. I would loved to have been there and been one of them.
Proud of the team, proud of the club, proud of the fans and proud to be an Arsenal supporter.
An excellent article Tony. I suppose we should show compassion to the naysayers as your title implies, after all many of them must live in an unhappy world of their own making.
The trouble with those naysayers who take it upon themselves to pontificate about Arsenal is that they show no compassion to anyone else as they try to force their point of view onto the rest of the fan base. In their efforts to do this they manipulate the half truth or even the non truth to try and make a non existent point seem believable.
I still contest that the media and the literary naysayers (include the sinister AAA with this group) are working to a specific anti Arsenal agenda, while the opportunistic naysayers (include the brain dead AAA here) happily jump on the band wagon.
It has been quite interesting that since yesterday’s result and performance we have had a respite on this site from the naysayers of all types – wonderful – it gives the supporters a chance to debate without the diverting distraction that the AAA depressives initiate.
The level of attack that this site has suffered from the AAA naysayers has been quite heavy and sustained recently – it means Tony that your support for AW is something the AAA have designated as a major target.
So lets keep up the good work, support the manager, team and club as vocally as possible and fcuk the AAA!
Tony – Not everyone is born with sunshine in their hearts. Some find some rays of light in their soles, and make so with it. Some, the naysayers as you call them, never see the light, forever lost in their own darkness.
I find it staggering that with half the team out, still some refuse to acknowledge that’ll have a detrimental effect on the team’s performances. The same individuals disappear when the team does well, only come out to knock the team. Strange individuals.
I could just imagine the ironic, wise twinkle in Tonys eye as I read the article.Youre a good bloke Tony, and Walter too.
Hallelujah brothers and sisters, long may the faith of the Untolders last!
COYG!Aha and Amen!
While watching the first half yesterday, I was constantly worrying about the negative reactions on the blogs and in the media, and finding it tough to concentrate on the game and to enjoy it. Constantly worrying about our season and thinking it a lost cause….
AT halftime, I decided to send the moaners and their negativity to the trash can and just enjoy the game and it was fun. I’m not going to let the moaners get me down like that again.
It was a good game. Dean up to his usual tricks (which I wouldn’t have spotted if not for Untold) and of course the usual denial of a penalty. Chelsea, Spurs, and now City. All 3 should have had penalties for Arsenal. And these are games where it’s generally acknowledged that he hasn’t been as bad for Arsenal as before.
As for Arsenal. Great spirit shown there. Slightly unlucky to concede, but were caught on the counter again so can’t really complain. The second half we were brilliant. If it were Mourinho instead of Wenger the media would be having a wank-off about how great he is in the dressing room and how he motivates his team etc. Flamini, Cazorla, Rosicky, Arteta, all showed how much they wanted to win. We’ve done well this season, despite the sometimes schizophrenic nature of our performances. We need to keep working hard till the end of the season, and hopefully win all our games from now, and then look to add some more quality in the summer.
Speaking of Mourinho, Chelsea were lucky to get away with just a 1 goal loss to Palace. And it was hilarious that that one goal came from John Terry 🙂
Bjtgooner,
Well said. A barometer of how the team performed can be gauged by the amount of the doomers that will be on here after every match. If you don’t see them then that’s a give away the team did well.
Kenneth Widmerpool
March 30, 2014 at 10:31 am
I could just imagine the ironic, wise twinkle in Tonys eye as I read the article.Youre a good bloke Tony, and Walter too.
Hallelujah brothers and sisters, long may the faith of the Untolders last!
COYG!Aha and Amen!
Kenneth are you suggesting this site is in fact a cult along the lines of the Branch Attvidian ? actually I see where you coming from hmmm .
‘Apparently not. At this rate of triumph inflation, another Unbeaten Season is the bare minimum before some people will even think a move in the right direction is happening.’
Even that will not be enough if the unbeaten run contains any draws or we lose a cup match or two.
Strange thing, but wasn’t Arsene being lambasted at the time for buying Ozil when we had supposedly more than enough midfielders already in the club. Now he is being castigated for not buying more.
–Home and Away—er Attvidian?-is that something to do with that Ickie chappie? It was more meant as a slight friendly ironic jest at Surfer Xs parting shot about the blind faith of UA in the “difficult times” article.
But I have seen that the word”cult”is in the word “difficult”so perhaps theres something in that, but then Sammy the Snake covered that already in the conspiracies piece…hang on things are getting even more complicated…..( lost of smileys and general signs of light hearted jesting insert here).
How about blind support, people who only know black and white, who only see what they want to see and respect only their own opinion!!???
Anything else than blind support for arsene wenger and every question is blasphemie.
Good fight yday from the team yday! and why was flamini not playing at chelsea mr wenger????
blasphemie on untold it is.
March on Marchand.
Just love this site. Been a reader for quite a while now, but rarely comment.Incidentally Tony, I was born in Wellingborough, lived in Northamptonshire for 23 years,[ 6 months in Daventry ] before emigrating to Western Australia 39 years ago. Keep up the good work.
@Marchand
Untold provides intelligent support for red and white. 🙂
well done to the lads.going 1-0 down a lot of us may’be thought the flood gates would open,so it was great to see them dig in,regroup at half time, and come out fighting and showing some passion for that great shirt they wear.i’ve been very critical of cazorla in the big games this season,but fair do’s,he was brilliant second half.i don’t know who got MOTM but i thought flamini was awesome yesterday.in the first half the two players who were trying to get the team going was flamini and rosicky.i was leaping round my living room like a ping pong because i thought podolski had scored and put us 2-1 up.still,to get a draw against the team i think will go on and win the prem lge in the week we just have just shows that theres plenty of character at the club.i have absolutely no doubt if we had the likes of walcott,rambo and ozil,then we would have won that game.5 possible first teamer’s missing yesterday,and i still strongly believe that with them back with the additions of 3 top class signings in the summer the club can only get stronger and be a force both here domestically and in europe.now lets get 4th spot.and now lets win the fa cup.
Why was player X not played against Y.
Damn Wenger you fool playing player X together with W against Z, we know it doesn’t work….
and so it goes on and on and on and on and on and….
Nice article from the sunny side of the world. Off to my own match now. Lots of ideas for new articles in my head 🙂
was this an implied criticism of my driving? Maps? I have loads of maps, except they all happen to be of London in the 18th and 19th centuries…
and I can’t jive…
🙂
Tony, your article would have been of greater interest if you had described some of the food you consumed at the shindig you attended. I always enjoy reading the amazing diet you are prepared to accept, away from Mrs A.
@Tony
“They have the capacity to whinge [British – means whine] and rant for hours and hours and hours and hours, (and go on and on and on and on)”
-it was the AAA’s fault
-it was the referee’s fault
-it was the media’s fault
-it was the opposition’s fault
-it was the FA’s & UEFA’s fault
-it was Evil Oil Baron’s fault
-it was the greedy player’s who left fault
I agree whole-heartedly with the sentiment of the article, though it needs to be reflected inward rather than outward.
^^^^^^^^^^^^ where were you the majority of the season? i dont seem to remember seeing you prior Chelsea which means it must be reproduction time in the sewer
@Mahdain
I dont seem to remember seeing you prior Chelsea which means it must be reproduction time in the sewer
Classy.
Simply Superb.
Great progress.Walter and tony > Great job ,flushing all critics. EVERYTHING IS OK AT AFC. WENGER IS A FAULTLESS COACH, WE ONLY LOST A FEW MATCHES BECAUSE SOME OF OUR PLAYERS ARE OUT. NOTHING SERIOUS AS WE ARE AGAIN GOING TO CLINCH THE ARSENE TROPHY AND WE WOULD BE HAPPY AS HELL IN A PERFECT WORLD.
The rest of this piece in capitals and another post from the same commentator have been edited out.
Ken, typing in capitals, and simply calling people names is not a replacement for reasoned argument and debating points. Sarcasm can be used but it has a weakness in this kind of situation in that it doesn’t actually progress the points at all. – Tony
Alan Hansen was questioning why our heaviest defeats are attended by the ridiculous high line we play. In our early season form we were playing a deep defensive line and making teams come onto us. Defence was the watchword. Slowly however, the specialist in failure has reasserted his “theories” and has torpedoed the team. His failure to learn even extended into the first half of yesterday’s game. This is a manager who will not and cannot learn. We simply cannot win with him in charge. His last game in charge will hopefully be at the end of this season.
Look like the arrogant troll has been sent to surf the site.
Paul….and your last comment here will hopefully be the shite you drivelled above!
Ah ,sweet , Tony ! Fuck the AAAA ! Keep on jiving !
Great effort. Personally, I hope the oilers win the league over Chelsea, but both get banned from Europe making the PL look like a joke. Perhaps, we’d finally get a fair shake because we actually spend within our means and, in turn, bring the PL out of the stone age.
I knew, it’s a pipe dream…
I know, it’s a pipe dream…
Paul are you watching the liverfall game??Phil dowd is giving everything to liverfall the dives,the handballs however slight they are and ask your damn head why is it that its only mike dean shit who officiates most of our big games?And why is it that its only The Arsenal which plays the top five teams in the fixtures consecutively for the last three season???
I see behind the scenes that the accusations that Tony and I are being paid by Arsenal to run Untold have re-appeared again.
Ken, as you seem to know this fact as the truth (because you even put it up in CAPITALS) could you do me a favour.
Send the Arsenal accountants a mail and remind them that since I will been writing for Untold 5 years in August 2014 that they didn’t find my bank account and I didn’t get one single penny for my work at Untold.
I would like to think that the big amount of cash that is on the bank accounts is to make sure that once they find my bank account number they will finally be able to send me the money.
I think it’s fair to say there are certain type of fans who come on here with nothing but negative assessments and never give Arsenal or Wenger any credit , no matter how obvious a situation might be when credit is due but when talking about being fair and positive as a fan , it also must be said there are some UA regulars who fall in the same category but at the opposite spectrum . They hate the Spuds ,for obvious reasons. They hate Chel$ki for their oil money and Mou. They hate Man $hitty for their oil money and poaching our best players. They hate Man U because of red nose, Van Per$y and refshite bias . They hate Stoke because they are Orcs. They hate Pulis, Allardyce and Redknapp and every club they manage. They even hate Everton and Martinez because they had the audacity to outplay us at the Ems and claimed to be a better side on the day. They hate Liverpool because they had the nerve to hold on to their best player Wenger wanted to buy ,even though they claim they never wanted that player to wear Arsenal shirt to begin with because he is a cheat and a racist and Wenger really never wanted to buy him but used him as a smokescreen to hide his real intentions to buy Ozil. They hate the media and pundits . They hate PGMOL and the FA , UEFA and FIFA .
With so much hate to go around sometimes it’s difficult to find the time to stay positive 🙂
Surfer X
AAA? BBB (Bullshit Baffles Brains) more like. The contributors and some regular posters to this blog rarely miss an opportunity to brand dissenters as the so called AAA which appears to be part of the editorial policy and is complete bullshit. Intelligent posters (like yourself) with an alternative view are verbally abused by the blog nazis (Godwin alert) to such an extent that reasonable objective discussion or debate becomes impossible and it all degenerates into infantile name calling.
Walter…Moi? Shurley shome mistake…all rumors are confined to the “conspiracies” article by Sammy the snake! All sorts of strange things exist there!(smiley—er how can I access a smiley etc, he said with embarrassment?)…I spoke to AFC and said its fine theres millions and millions in the vaults…but they cant pay you for making up the injuries stats!(smiley +wink etc)-
All jokes aside do you ever come by the way of Cologne with your job etc?
@Jax
It is surely disingenuous, in the hypocritical sense, of you to describe contributors to this site as nazis and then complain about name calling?
Your comment reminds me of those made by another naysayer who from time to time frequents this site.
To all moaners,whiners,gloomers and those who believe their opinions to be unimpeachable and infallible, there are two things to be clarified:
1)Why is it, almost without fail, do you guys and gals NEVER show up when Arsenal win but inevitably troll onto UA to moan and call for Arsene’s head, some players’ demise and other troll-like laments if we didn’t?
2)Do you actually believe that Walter and Tony censor honest and frank opinions which disagree with there’s? Then explain why they allow guys like marchand, @Jax, rupert Cook, SurferX, Paul and other dissenting voices to post on this blog?
We all respect others opinions, whether divergent or not but when some of you lot get carried away and accuse UA faithful of being nazis (an offensive comment to Jews and victims alike),being blind followers, having a ¨specialist in failure¨ and a loser who never learns, blasphemers or at least accusers, etc. For example, I don’t support Wenger’s decisions 100% and question his injury management policy BUT even after a bad day at the office, I realize that the whole is greater than the parts of our season and that overall it has been a more successful season points wise and quality wise than previously, despite horrendous injuries to 7 core first team players.
You who accuse us of being blind should take off your negative blinkers and try to be as balanced and fair-minded as people like Mandy, Bootomee, Brickfields and others. dissent is fine but narrow-mindedness is unwelcome here.
No Kenneth not you 🙂
But now you know why the money is in the bank. It’s not to buy players. It’s to buy bloggers like me.
But I could say to Arsenal: SPEND THE F*CKING MONEY NOW! As I could use it 🙂 🙂 🙂
Damn! I thought Id gone from the stiff and formal “Kenneth” and made it to “Ken”! (smiley etc)…but theres only one Ken at Arsenal…keeping all that cash for himself, no wonder thats why we have to get crepe players like Flam on a free..(smiley) er can you lend me 10 euro when you finally get paid?…
Walter/Kenneth
I have no idea where the money is, but apparently for the right price, there are some newspapers for sale.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26808572
I am not talking a collection of cellulose, I mean the organization that pretends to collect news and distributes this to the public in an unbiased format (sure).
While this was not a bad weekend for us by any means, footballing-wise, listening to those in the media has been a very painful experience. I watched the Fulham/Everton match, and one could be excused for thinking it was Arsenal playing if one had one’s eyes closed. The whole commentary was full of Arsenal beware, Arsenal this, Arsenal that. Reading the bbc feed when Palace were playing Chelsea yesterday there were lots of references to this is how you play against Chelsea, not the Arsenal way. When those stupid utd fans had their plane with their banner fly over OT, someone suggested this plane ought to fly to all grounds with different messages from each club’s fans. Nothing wrong with that view, except that all the other suggested messages were fine and would be deemed positive for club. All, bar the message at the Emirates which was suggested could go something like ‘martinez for Arsenal’. I didn’t bother to watch the pool/spuds encounter today as I had had enough by then. I knew the name Arsenal would keep coming up in the commentary again and again, and I’d be very surprised if someone tells me I was wrong.
Ok, we get it, it’s going well for Liverpool and Everton right now. We give that to them. But why not let it be just about those clubs. Why should it be about Arsenal?
Why? Why the fixation with Arsenal? There are sides who are in much worse situations than Arsenal (utd, spurs) but you would think Arsenal were in the relegation battle. It’s possible the teams they’re wishing and praying for to win things in place of us could end up with nothing; Liverpool could end up with just a top four finish, with Everton out of the champions league places, while we could win the FA and be in the champions league. The media put me off football this weekend, completely. Glad I watched the Malaysian grand prix which I enjoyed, or it’d have been a miserable sporting weekend for me. And yet it didn’t have to be, my team played very well yesterday. But thanks to the media it’s been almost a weekend to forget. Where I come from we have a saying when faced with this kind of behaviour, if coming from a wide cross section of society, which goes along something like ‘why do they all behave as if they were born of the same person’. I think it would be fitting in this case. Anyway, off to bed, and hoping for a better week.
TBH I’m not that bothered about the references to us during the Everton game. It’s the commentators job to do their best to make every game the biggest, most important game EVER!! Everton have a chance to make fourth and possibly ruin Arsenal’s ever present run in the CL, that’s something that makes the game more interesting than it would otherwise be. So of course they are going to use that angle to build the game up, to turn it to a huge drama. Is there any point in being offended? Not really, on Saturday the ManU game was the biggest most important game EVER!! Moyes was on the verge of the sack apparently. Probably a complete load of garbage but that’s the way the media operate.
Andy1886, I disagree. I don’t think it is their job to hype every game. I do agree it happens, especially any sport touched by USA networks. Every golfer is the best golfer that ever lived, every baseball payer is the best baseball player that ever lived, and so on. To the person that watches sports because they enjoy a particular kind of athleticism, this mindless diatribe is annoying. Some people can turn it into white noise. I would much rather just get the audio track to the fans in the stands, and avoid all the “colour commentary”.
Gord, I’m not saying that I enjoy it, I don’t. But it doesn’t surprise me, it seem that this is the way it is these days. It’s the age of Sky and common sense goes right out of the window, these guys have a ‘product’ to sell. I don’t need someone to tell me what to think but I guess there must be enough gullible people out there who lap this sort of stuff up or they wouldn’t be doing it.
Who knows when the ref for the Everton game will be assigned? At least some of the usual suspects will be ineligible due to Merseyside proximity, but still very nervous. An early red card could really have far reaching consequences.
I am trying to ignore the trolls but had to laugh at the “specialist in failure” reference. Is it not a little embarrassing, however much you may hate Wenger, to repeat one of Mourinho’s most offensive and inappropriate remarks ever (and there have been plenty of them)? Seriously?
I believe the referee assignments are announced Monday or Tuesday.
I’ll guess we get Webb (he did the first game in December). I’ll guess we get the same 4. With instructions from Mike Riley 😈 . It’s been in the news, if Everton win its last 7 games, which includes this 6 point game against us, they get 4th. PGMOL will do all they can to give the game to Everton.
When Dean was appointed for the Arsenal/Citeh game, much was said about vital decisions going in Citeh’s favour.
To be fair, this didn’t happen.
Unless or until we get a raw deal when we visit Everton, I don’t think we should anticipate the worst. These final title determining games are now in the spotlight’s glare and referees will need to demonstrate clear impartiality to all and sundry.
pete
March 30, 2014 at 8:42 pm
Who knows when the ref for the Everton game will be assigned? At least some of the usual suspects will be ineligible due to Merseyside proximity, but still very nervous. An early red card could really have far reaching consequences.
Don’t be nervous about the ref. They significantly influence 1 in 20 games one way or the other (and that could be for or against us on the day). Be nervous about our manager’s influence in important away games. He has (negatively) influenced around 3 in 16: or 3 in 3 against the top 4. Its like saying Im scared of crossing the road because a plane might hit me: be more concerned about the car hurtling towards you at 60mph.
The ref announcements normally come out late(ish) Monday afternoons. I pick them up from the official Premier League site http://www.premierleague.com.
AL
March 30, 2014 at 8:05 pm
But why not let it be just about those clubs. Why should it be about Arsenal?
So;
a) Who cares what they think?
b) Its all ‘reds under the bed’ paranoia. Everyone realises that most ofthe media are Liverpool-fixated. That being said, we are still well-represented when we are on (Smith, Dixon, Parlour, Winterburn, Wright, etc). Its just the rest of them don’t really like us. Which is exactly the way it should be: its how I grew up with the club and I wouldn;t want it any other way. They can stick their ‘plaudits and accolades’ up the feking arses as far as Im concerned.
Also: the team didn’t play really well. We played well in the second half: we we’re pretty ordinary (especially as the home team) in the first. Citeh should of been out of sight after dominating the first half the way they did; and certainly 2-0 early in the second. We battled really well in the second and ultimately deserved a draw- but if that’s the sort of performance that you describe as playing really well, it just shows how far your standards have fallen.
For the past few season Lee Mason has been summoned to do a job at Goodison park.
I expect more of the same on Sunday.
@bjtgooner
March 30, 2014 at 6:31 pm
“It is surely disingenuous, in the hypocritical sense, of you to describe contributors to this site as nazis and then complain about name calling?”
Way to spectacularly miss the point!
I believe Jax was commentating on your (on some others) frequent propensity to readily resort to petty insults that go against your beliefs. He drew the (clever) analogy of a nazi in reference to Godwin’s Law (which generically translates as those that resort to the lowest common denominator to any posted that posts an oponion that goes against your belief system- using the AAA analogy I use a couple of days back). Ergo: you read something you don;t like- you insult them. I guess it probably flew completely over your head?
Either way, I would view you more as a Stalinist than a Nazi (on the political spectrum)- a fundamental belief that anything that anything that opposes the centrally espoused beliefs from the leader (AW) undermines the club itself. Which is preposterous too, Im sure. You have always seemed absolutely objective and impartial.
Two legs good, 4 legs bad 😉
Mason, Heaven EPL us if it’s him
@Mandy
Let’s wait and see but Lee Mason would very worrying.
I think it was the old “football is fixed” website who exposed an unhealthy relationship between Mason and Everton.
Although last season it was in fact M Oliver who took charge at Goodison.
Yes, Tasos, remember the Mason Everton link on FIF
He does not do too much on his main website, but is very active on twitter
https://mobile.twitter.com/footballisfixed
Lots of stuff in the last ten days about how we suffer with ref decisions, and how Marriner and Taylor stitched us up at Chelsea….and how the club should have looked into Taylor’s role in the penalty and Gibbs being sent off. Unfortunately, Arsenal do not appear to be doing enough to challenge all this…..Gibbs and Ox cleared, this would never happen for Arsenal unless the ref had something to hide.
Unfortunately, we have not seen the last of Taylor this season….a cup final against a northern kicky team….of a vital game for fourth place, it awaits.
About name calling, name calling the manager is included for retaliatory action, IMVHO.
About Everton, Fulham did very well, but conceded stupid goals. Dejagah’s goal was sublime. I am also convinced that there was a possible offside on an Everton goal, and a possible hand ball on another one.
“how the club should have looked into Taylor’s role in the penalty and Gibbs being sent off. Unfortunately, Arsenal do not appear to be doing enough to challenge all this…..Gibbs and Ox cleared, this would never happen for Arsenal unless the ref had something to hide.”
Mandy,
That’s all, she wrote! Exactly! Smoke where there’s fire. Perhaps there’s high stakes poker being played where AFC threatens to press for an answer UNLESS the promise us a level playing field vs Everton. That would be a worthwhile quid pro quo. Ah, a boy can dream……
Surfer X you said: ‘They significantly influence 1 in 20 games one way or the other (and that could be for or against us on the day).’
So do you have any data to back this up?
And I’m certainly not a naysayer but I don’t really know how to dance I must admit… 😉
RIP Rocky Rocastle…
So why do these naysayers show up to only insult the regulars on the site? And when insulted in response to their constant insults (of sycophancy, blind faith etc) they play the victims. Look, it’s all well and good having a different point of view. Most regulars on here don’t agree on everything, INCLUDING Wenger’s tactics, his potential efforts behind the scenes etc, but they can talk about those disagreements without resorting to name calling AND know when to let it go and just agree to disagree.
For the non-regulars (or the regular dissenters) you are entering a site which makes its bias known. We like Wenger. If you want a reasoned debate the starting point is a respect for that viewpoint rather than sneers and jibes about ‘failure’, ‘sycophancy’ etc.
Yes, you may say ‘YOU STARTED IT’ if you come on for the first time. That’s not true, and even if it is, you are entering someone else’s usual space. It is incumbent on you to be more polite and patient in expressing yourself. You don’t find us going to Le Grove and callin them out on their propaganda. Which is what it is. They know it as well. At least the intelligent ones. But if that’s what they want to believe and listen to, up to them. Stop trying to convert people here, and just present a point of view. And stop being like Stoke and playing the victim when you are the aggressor. That’s cowardly and annoying.
As for you Surfer X. I realised I wasted a lot of time on you, although it might’ve been worth it just to challenge your noise. Sure, disagree with me, or my logic all you want. But you brush it aside as insignificant and then accuse me of being in a cult or something. While at the same time ignoring my repeated requests to address the paradox in your criticism of Wenger (not going to repeat it)and explain why ‘spending money RIGHT NOW’ would have been the correct action. So spare me the sanctimony. You have your point of view, I have mine. Whatever. Only one of us is here to stir shit up.
WalterBroeckx
March 31, 2014 at 5:48 am
So do you have any data to back this up?
Nope. Just evidence from observing football for 40+ years. Take this season, I cant think of any points we have lost / gained from dodgy decisions. Plenty of wrong decisions- but none that significantly effected the result. Articles (like the ones you wrote a couple of seasons back) were highly dubious and huge amount of personal bias (imho); something that is kind of ratified when I look at your appraisal of a referees performance in an individual match (such as Saturday).
Thats the point. The fictitious ‘AAA’ point don’t cost us points. The nasty oil barrons don’t cost us points. The media don’t cost us points. The refs dont cost us points. Your work (and others- Im not finger pointing) spends so much time looking at incidentals without ever stopping to examine the thing right under your nose- managerial performance. You said the other day you had plenty of new articles in your head- why not make one of them an evaluation of AW’s performance? Or, better still, why don’t you set down your criteria for failure? Put yourself in a position of CEO- what KPI’s would you measure AW against over the last 5 years, 4 years, 3 years, etc?
What costs us points is the failure to address our injury problems. The failure to build a squad capable of challenging the trophy. And the tactical failure to set up a team that has the best chance of winning / not losing in an individual game. They cost us plenty.
Ray from Norfolk
I couldn’t watch the Everton game, but I have heard the offside and handball mentioned elsewhere too. Who was the referee?
SurferX
My standards have not fallen down, no. Perspective is everything. If you take Suarez, Coutinho, Sterling, Sturridge, and Skrtle out of that Liverpool side for 3 or 4 months on average, with some out for the season, I doubt very much Liverpool would be where they are right now. For some reason Arsenal fans refuse to factor this into their criticism of the players/club. The players we are missing would all start, and any side missing 5 first teamers is bound to suffer don’t you think. Having taken that into account I came to the conclusion the team did very well against a side that should really be sweeping everything before them at home and in Europe. We didn’t employ any negative tactics like trying to do a smash and grab, and the comments coming from city players and manager tell you they knew what a game they had had at their hands. I’ll say it again, the team did very well, and nothing will sway me from that opinion.
Thats the point. The fictitious ‘AAA’ point don’t cost us points. The nasty oil barrons don’t cost us points. The media don’t cost us points. The refs dont cost us points. Your work (and others- Im not finger pointing) spends so much time looking at incidentals without ever stopping to examine the thing right under your nose- managerial performance.
And here you have it.. A simplistic either/or approach, with definite statements of how everyone else is wrong, and ONLY his point of view is correct and more reasonable to boot, and he’s only trying to be generous with the poor stupid folk such as us by setting our agenda.
Shard
The Fulham/Everton ref was appalling. He made so many “mistakes”, in favour of Everton that I think if one cares to go on any pro Fulham boards this should be the topic of discussion.
AL
I just went and checked..and guess who the referee was? My first thought was Lee Mason, but no, it was Anthony Taylor.
Fulham v Everton
Referee Anthony Taylor.
Surprise surprise.
Shard
March 31, 2014 at 6:47 am
[..stuff]
I found this whole post quite interesting and revealing. Some thoughts;
1) I have had some great discussions on here with a variety of people (you are one). In between, I have had abused hurled my way (tis the internet, comes with the territory- no problem). I have never reciprocated because, quite frankly, its beneath me. But, when I get another lazy insult thrown in I do like to highlight it is all. Abusive ‘ad hominem’ Fallacy.
2) So you seem to be a suggesting that Untold is home to those that support AW. Which is great- the site dresses itself up as supporting Arsenal when, actually, that is not the case. First and foremost, you are hear to defend the manager- Arsenal football club comes secondary to that.
3) I dont think I have ever accused you of being in a cult. But given above (1) you get insulted for challenging the status quo (2) the site is set up to defend AW rather than support the club; the parallels to a cult: a shared universal belief that will be defended no matter what rationality is presented.
Though cult is too strong. I used Jehovah’s Witnesses rather than a cult as they have a number of beliefs that simple do not hold up to any observable evidence- rather they exist on belief. And ‘facts’ are then uncovered in support of those beliefs. So when I challenged at the door on why dinosaur fossils explain evolution, they gave me facts to support why they may not as old as suggested; why scientists might have it wrong; why they could of been planted; etc. The same behaviour is witnessed here. I never see a challenge to the belief system (AW) I only see ‘facts’ being presented that explains why everyone is against Arsenal (when, in fact, you actually are focused as against AW- but paint yourselves to be good ‘fans’ all the same).
The only reason I am still here is people keep communicating with me. I only posted in the first place when, under the title ‘Difficult Times’ (an interesting Arsenal read, I thought, its going to be a balanced view looking at the problems we have had this season and why we should keep the faith with AW- why things would improve) and instead read a rant against the non-believers (ie the ‘AAA’) who challenge this site’s beliefs. Don’t deal with the issues, deal with the people who believe in them seems to be the mantra.
I find it interesting that noone in comments has yet taken me up on the challenge;
“At what point would I sack AW?” What is your threshold for saying enough-is-enough? What about a 5th placed finish? 3 consecutive 5th place finishes? No trophy for 10 years? 15 years? 20 years? Relegation? At what point do you concede that its not good enough Tony? Or will that destroy too much intellectual-capital that you now have invested in AW?
Here’s another article I have never read here: “We will win the EPL in the next 3 years under AW. Here’s why & how”.
Someone have a go at explaining the fossils to me.
So you seem to be a suggesting that Untold is home to those that support AW. Which is great- the site dresses itself up as supporting Arsenal when, actually, that is not the case. First and foremost, you are hear to defend the manager- Arsenal football club comes secondary to that.
False extrapolation and once again intended to suggest superiority and mislead.
AL
March 31, 2014 at 6:57 am
SurferX
My standards have not fallen down, no. Perspective is everything.
We were poor in the first-half. We never looked close to scoring. In addition, we were at home. That is not ‘my team played really well’ in my book- we turned up in the 2nd half.
If you take Suarez, Coutinho, Sterling, Sturridge, and Skrtle out of that Liverpool side for 3 or 4 months on average, with some out for the season, I doubt very much Liverpool would be where they are right now. For some reason Arsenal fans refuse to factor this into their criticism of the players/club.
We do factor this in: absolutely. Why has AW not improved the injury situation in 5 long years? What is the cause? Over-training? Over-playing? Poor medical diagnosis? I have no idea- but patently neither does AW. And that is unacceptable- it is his job to manage problems. He has repeatedly failed to solve that one.
Surfer X
At what point would I sack AW?
The simple answer is when I believe he’s not doing a good job and that Arsenal would be better off without him.
Everything else that you want as a concrete answer with league position etc, depends on the circumstances. Context. Since it is your hypothetical question, you come up with a hypothetical set of detailed circumstances for me to then consider and respond to, rather than me think of a set of hypothetical circumstances which you then proceed to pick holes into on the basis that I can’t really think of every hypothetical situation and am bound to leave something out.
Shard
“For the non-regulars (or the regular dissenters) you are entering a site which makes its bias known. We like Wenger.”
SurferX
“So you seem to be a suggesting that Untold is home to those that support AW. Which is great- the site dresses itself up as supporting Arsenal when, actually, that is not the case. First and foremost, you are hear to defend the manager- Arsenal football club comes secondary to that.”
Shard
False extrapolation and once again intended to suggest superiority and mislead.
Its in black and white pal.
@Shard
“Everything else that you want as a concrete answer with league position etc, depends on the circumstances. Context. Since it is your hypothetical question, you come up with a hypothetical set of detailed circumstances for me to then consider and respond to”
SurferX
“Why don’t you set down your criteria for failure? Put yourself in a position of CEO- what KPI’s would you measure AW against over the last 5 years, 4 years, 3 years, etc?”
Seems clear.
If I’d said that we on Untold like Arsenal, your response would be ‘so do we’, and then contend me of being ‘superior’ in my attitude towards what a supporter should behave like.. Anything to discredit me after all.
I said Arsene because all you naysayers patently dislike Wenger. If not in so many words, in your attitude. I figured that set us apart and hence my point.
Once again you prove yourself either incapable of understanding the written word beyond the absolute literal, which might make sense because you seem to lack the concept of context in your statements on Wenger.
Or as is more likely, you are here to stir shit.. Why would anyone do that unless they were more comfortable living in a sewer?
Why I don’t deal in that hypothetical universe with you is because I have no interest in it. My interest is in the here and now, and I have told you that whenever I feel Wenger isn’t good for Arsenal, I would want him gone. (At the same time, I would still respect him.)
You seem to have an interest in the hypothetical. run with it and I might respond. Otherwise shut up about it.
Surfer X
“Plenty of wrong decisions- but none that significantly effected the result. Articles (LIKE THE ONES YOU WROTE A COUPLE OF SEASONS BACK) were highly dubious and huge amount of personal bias (imho)”
Followed with;
“The only reason I am still here is people keep communicating with me”
Pity the poor naysayers.
Still thinking about how to twist my words further Surfer X? Let’s see. I like Wenger beyond Arsenal… I am like a Jehovah’s witness who doesn’t care about facts..
But what about you? Not responding to questions on the logical consistency of your statements. Behaving as if you are the only reasonable person here, even as you summarily dismiss all evidence that goes against your contention, as evidenced by your responses to me, and in this post on walter, AND you desperate attempts to twist whatever anyone says to either discredit them or to turn any further discussion in the direction YOU want to take it, and on your terms.
Seriously man. Fuck off. You are a sad little troll. It took me some time to come to that conclusion because I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. ut there is no doubt now. No matter how you coach your words, how reasonable you pretend to be, you are a troll. I’m actually done talking to you.
Surfer X,
I also have a good 40 years of watching football in me. Ah but you are superior to me on judging things. Good for you. I bow for your superior knowledge. I wonder how come you don’t manage Arsenal yourself?
Refs didn’t cost us points this season? Mason at WBA, Dean against Chelsea, who was it again against Manchester United (forgotten look it up) and then I even won’t mention Taylor and his farces against Aston Villa.
And I also point at the fact that last season when the majority of referee reviewers didn’t support Arsenal the bias found was even bigger than when we reviewed it with only Arsenal supporting referees.
But hey that is all nothing compared to your own memory of course. How stupid to even think that some 10 different reviewers who happened to be referees know better than Surfer X. Silly me.
Shard
March 31, 2014 at 7:55 am
“But what about you?”
Completely rationale and objective (to a fault- a criticism that has been levelled in the past). This is my view of AW;
The Genius (96-04)
-a revolutionary manager, changing the club and English football for ever
-took a team that had been set-up as a defensive for the better part of 5 years and turned it into one of the most dynamic attacking forces the game has seen
-introduced improvements in a variety of footballing coaching activities; diet, fitness, coaching
-had an encyclopaedic knowledge of the players in the game that put him at a huge advantage in dealing with clubs (who’s scouting network rarely went beyond the domestic market and well-publised foreign players)
-a man-motivator and personal-coach: he turned good players into great players. Great players into world-class.
The Club Builder (03-08)
-used the skills (above) to pursue the aim of building a world-class stadium capable of generating the revenues that would place the club at the top of the game
-managed to keep posting a transfer surplus over this time and keep the club in the top-4; both essential revenue streams that the club needed to finance the stadium (both pre & post build)
-continued to be innovational in terms of infrastruture (notably with regard to training failities)
The Stagnator (08-present)
-despite having resources at his disposal, was unable to revert from type; instead allowing them to accumulate and go untapped (at at time when he was consistently being outspent by rivals) to the detriment of the team, principally becuase;
-was not able to evolve strategically. Clubs world-wide had evolved and resourced their scouting networks to a level equal to and in advance of AW’s, meaning his old methodology of finding talent at under-valued prices failed- leaving AW often looking impotent as he was often unprepared to pay at market-rate or above.
-was not able to evolve tactically. Was unable to counter to changing face of domestic football (where more teams played with a 5 man midfield). Changed the formation of the side to play with a lone-striker, but the teams he faced copied the power and pace he introduced negating one of his teams traditonal advantages.
-was unable to evolve from a control perspective; clubs employing a large number of specialists that collectively replaced areas that he was traditionally strong in: fitness, training, coaching.
Im concern for AW is how far will he let the stagnation go? I am not sure we are dealing with someone who’s core strength is to evolve managerially (akin to the way Ferguson managed). You assertion is that it will come good; mine is now that HE has put everything in place for the club to springboard to the next level. But, I do not believe he has the ability to realise that himself.
“Seriously man. Fuck off. You are a sad little troll.”
And there you have it. You came so close to appraising your own belief system before you realised how much damage you could do to yourself, and reverted to type. Abusive ad hominem Fallacy. Never mind the fossils, attack the non-believers 🙂
WalterBroeckx
March 31, 2014 at 8:11 am
Walter- and I sincerely mean no disrespect- but you spend so long looking for excuses and so little time objectivity assessing the team that it only lessens the credibility of your research (in my eyes). If I had ever read one thing you had read that examined a flaw in the performance of AW, I could begin to approach your research with something less than bemused cynicism. Furthermore, when I read individual write-ups of match reports and find they-too are littered with a lack of rationale objectivity and partiality than it diminishes that credibility further (in my eyes).
Put another way, I didn’t believe the pamphlet the Jehovas gave me either: especially when it is so fundamentally opposed to what I see and know; and the conclusions I have drawn for myself.
You are undoubtedly very analytical- a trait we share; where we depart is you set out the hypothesis out to reinforce your own beliefs- mine is simply a conclusion based on current observable evidence. Your’s is static and non-negotiable (you cannot shift from the underlying backing of AW, and therefore you choose not to challenge his (poor) performance); whereas mine is not: despite some of the doubts being there for longer, the last 2 years I have personally changed my pov from ‘give him time’ to ‘time to go’.
Surfer X,
In short:
Remove him and we will win all things.
My observations are far more worth than yours.
Fine. Enjoy live. So will I.
You should start your own blog.
I knew I said I don’t want to discuss anything with you Surfer X and it’s true, but I find it more than a little amusing that while you seem to equate Untolders with a faith based cult, it is you who are here trying to play a messianic role in our Arsenal lives.
By the way, when I say fuck off, it’s less abusive than calling someone a mindless cultist. Don’t bother responding with your psycho babble, sanctimonious bullshit. I won’t even be reading anymore.
WalterBroeckx
March 31, 2014 at 9:15 am
“Remove him and we will win all things.”
-no: there is no certainty. Remove him and things could get worse. My assertion is that things could also could better, and the stagnation would end.
Your observations are far more worth than ours.
-no: your observations and clouded my your beliefs. You do not approach any subject with any level of objectivity. You avoid uncomfortable subjects that could damage this belief, and instead focus your energies into areas that undermine the non-believers.
You should start your own blog.
-it has been said before: a few years back when I was explaining to the people at Le Grove why they were being ignorant and naive (in relation to the strategy of financial sustainability- which I think is AW’s greatest legacy and achievement). Alas, I (usually) have neither the time or motivation to commit to it longer term that it would require: you definitely have my genuine respect & admiration in that regard.
Shard
March 31, 2014 at 9:18 am
By the way, when I say fuck off, it’s less abusive than calling someone a mindless cultist. Don’t bother responding with your psycho babble, sanctimonious bullshit. I won’t even be reading anymore.
The why respond to me in the first place?
Jehovahs are not mindless cultists; they are an example of a belief-system. I wouldn’t use cult as it has negative connotations; belief-systems also don’t have to be religious (in context here, they make an excellent analogy); its any ideology that have a series of mutually supporting ideas. They are dangerous in the sense that they refute opposing-ideas (without due appraisal) that go against the belief-system. It is a very apt comparison: the very fact that all the articles are written here present only one version of the truth (the trust in AW); alongside the animosity and aggression shown to others that refuse to espouse it.
In summary, all Im doing is constructing a reasoned argument (that could well be wrong). You are switching between confronting, ignoring and finally insulting me. The only offence given or taken has been coming from you.
@Shard
I agree with you about SurferX, he is a particularly obnoxious troll. I really admire your patience and the way you out maneuvered him through a number of points on this and earlier threads. Very well done.
As I noted a few days ago, I could sense his deception and duplicity. When he ignored my question on an earlier thread I was fairly sure we had a troll, a very arrogant one, in the house.
He seems to be very dedicated to disrupting Untold and wasting our time – little amuses the guilty!
@bjtgooner
March 31, 2014 at 9:36 am
“I agree with you about SurferX, he is a particularly obnoxious troll.”
SurferX
“They are dangerous in the sense that they refute opposing-ideas (without due appraisal) that go against the belief-system…alongside the animosity and aggression shown to others that refuse to espouse it.”
Right on cue. Thank you 🙂
bjtgooner
Yeah, but I’ve decided to just skip over his comments. Waste of time trying to have a discussion with someone who’s not here for that, no matter certain good points he might have made. Besides, I let the negativity affect my matchday experience in the first half of the City game. Not going to let that happen again. Trolls aren’t worth the bother although they can be amusing at times. As you say, this one is mostly just obnoxious.
A really good example of objectivity in construction of opinion. Note the self-appraisal throughout (from Pedro @ Le Grove)
“[on Rodgers] He’s shown Arsenal a thing or two this season regardless of what happens now.
1. You can force your best player to stay. Robin had a year to go on his deal, throwing away £25m is a bit kamikaze, but so is throwing the Premier League to a rival. Liverpool held onto their man, supported him with a good team. Now he’ll stay. I thought they’d have trouble motivating him. I thought he’d sulk like Cesc did. How wrong was I? Very wrong.
2. You don’t need a big reputation to do well at a big club. United messed up with Moyes because he didn’t really have an pedigree. Liverpool invested in a vision and a style.
3. Fitness. They have a smaller squad and have player 10 less games. Still, if you look at how they set up, there’s plenty of rotation that goes into their game. They’ve managed stints without Gerrard, Suarez and Sturridge. Rogers picks his starting 11 6 games at a time. He ensures everyone gets a run out and feels motivated, he picks the right players for the right side and he has his players fresh for the action half of the season. Liverpool don’t have 4 key players out… and Gerrard is a notorious crock.
4. Tactics are key with Liverpool. They have to be when you’re not one of the best sides. He picks a system based on who he’s playing and who he’s starting. It’s pretty logical, get the most out of the attributes you have on offer and pick of the weaknesses you face in front of you.
5. Liverpool have proved that good management and sharp thinking can overcome massive spending. Something I’ve pushed for years here. City and Chelsea isn’t an excuse for underachievement when you’re at the top level. Ferguson dealt with them and he’s had a drastically lower budget over the past five years. Dortmund proved budget is not important in Germany. Even Jose when he won the Champione League with Inter.
All the walls of excuses have fallen down around Arsenal this season, there are none left. What we have this season is of our own making.”
In truth, I don’t fully agree with all of the above- but I certainly cannot level the criticism that he fails to analyse performance. There is substance behind his viewpoint whether you believe it to be right or not (in the sense that he outlines his rationale for non-performance and assesses accordingly). Where is that assessment at Untold? Performance assessment of any kind is overlooked, instead focusing on the excuses (for non-performance).
@Shard
There is something additional about this troll, I suspect a motivation/purpose that most trolls don’t have – either that or he is mentally challenged towards compulsive communication and dominance – I’m sure there is a medical term for it – but my money is on the concealed purpose.
@Walter
Now that he has cut & pasted from Le Groan can we have him banned? He can express his crap (sorry free speech) elsewhere.
Shard/Tasos
Yes, it was Taylor. That explains everything.
Re SurferX, not sure if it’s just me but doesn’t he just sound like Rupert?? I also haven’t seen Rupert for a while so maybe….. If only I had access to the logs that contain info like IP addresses, etc,…
AL
bjtgooner will disagree with me, but I don’t think Rupert is a troll exactly. He probably enjoys stirring things up but I don’t see him avoiding issues on the basis of an agenda for example. Although I admit having been away from Untold for so long, you guys have seen more of him than I have.
I see what you mean though about similarities to Rupert 🙂
AL
March 31, 2014 at 9:58 am
Re SurferX, not sure if it’s just me but doesn’t he just sound like Rupert?? I also haven’t seen Rupert for a while so maybe….. If only I had access to the logs that contain info like IP addresses, etc,…
Lol. Who’s Rupert? Go on Le Grove and ask who knows SurferX.. you will find a few. The run-ins I have had with Gambon down the years make you lot seem like pussycats (listen, I applaud you for not getting out the ‘c’ word- thats usually the one I get thrown at me over there- you have a slightly better vocabulary in your lazy insults): we have vehemently opposed views on football Finance and certainly do not see eye to eye on everything.
Thinking about it, the last time I bothered so much with online views where when they were showing a complete lack of objectivity too.. I hate the ‘AKB’ stereotype as much as I do the ‘AAA’. Its people that cannot think, debate and contest for themselves and simply resort to meaningless attacks (all under the banner of being an ‘Arsenal’ fan that bother me). Like I said, thats why I commented on ‘Difficult Times’: the article was so misdirected (as a fan) it irked me and I felt compelled to comment.
@Al & Shard
I do agree that the rupert is not an obvious troll, although he does exhibit troll like tendencies on occasion.
I agree Surfer has some similarities to the rupert, but his phraseology is quite different, so I am sure it is not the rupert – but they both do seem to have something more to their agenda/purpose than just being stirrers.
@bjtgooner
March 31, 2014 at 10:28 am
My agenda? Im an Arsenal fan, simple as that. My grandfather was, my father is, I am and my kids are. I am interested in all things Arsenal, and keenly follow opinion and thoughts- I read most of the blogs (good and bad) and some of the media. Why are any of us here? I don’t mean here in the sense of Untold- I mean here in the sense of online discussing our (and others) opinions about the club. We have a shared interest (really!). If we win the FA Cup, I’ll be celebrating just as much as you- don’t worry about that. Hell, if you told me that if we lose AW would get sacked and if we win he keeps his job- Id still want us to win. Against Citeh on Saturday, I only felt deflated because I think it was a chance to put us back in the mix for a title. If all the other teams implode and we win all our remaining games, I have no problem coming back on here just so you can all say ‘I told you so’.
Its been an interesting community to debate in. I enjoyed yesterdays’s discussions with Shard (over performance measurement)- even though ultimately we couldn’t agree on the validity or relevance of the research he presented. I enjoyed talking FFP with MikeT- its something I have taken a keen interest in over 5 years. But, coming back to the original point that got me here, I find it strange and puzzling that you all invest so much energy in looking for excuses- rather than looking at performance objectively over a reasonable period of time. Why analyse the club look to improve it when you can castigate those who do not share the belief in AW, right? I find the compulsion to abuse, insult and ban- to keep the church free of non-believers- odd and frankly a little dangerous (whichever side of the AW debate you are on). But, hey- your church, your rules right? I have no issue with that.
It’sa glorious ask but the titleis well away fromus and oIpity we ddidn’tttakeoour chance this seas on
WalterBroeckx at 5:46 pm
Anyone who would think that you two are in the employment of AFC or that the club would endorse all your wild and baseless accusations against every authority involved in the game to excuse the annual repetitive failure of our egocentric manager would be as gullible as the dozen or so regular commenters (possibly better described as Disciples) you and Koresh actually get here. Having the name Arsenal associated with your incessant and excessive moaning and proofless accusations against British and European referees, the FA, the Premier League, Fifa/ Uefa, and the entire media is even embarrassing to normal fans, and could only be damaging to the clubs reputation if anyone normal took them seriously.
Further, regarding the seriousness of the accusations you make regularly- namely the PGMOL referees fixing matches and doing everything they can to stop Arsene Wenger winning another trophy- If there was one shred of evidence to back up your claims then why have AFC not used it?? Surely if there was ANY evidence of ANY wrongdoing a multi million pound corporation like AFC would have employed a team of professionals who actually know what they are talking about and doing to investigate and find the evidence? Do you think all the intelligent millionaire ex bankers that sit on our board and our ultra intelligent manager would not find a way to prove the wrongdoing on the gross scale that you suggest, and produce evidence to prove it if it were true?
Can you give any reasonable explanation why AFC have not done anything about this?
Macduff
March 31, 2014 at 11:03 am
“Can you give any reasonable explanation why AFC have not done anything about this?”
A very good point well made. Why haven’t AFC come cap in-hand to Untold; for you to both evidence and champion the fixed playing-field within which they operate?
In fact, now I think about it- why would a man such as Wenger- as outspoken as he was regarding corruption in his time at Monaco; and as out-spoken regarding fairness of competition (eg ‘financial doping’ et al) not been vocal about this ‘AAA’ bias running rampant through the game?
SurferX,
i’ve read your the chief ‘shit-stirer’..its a great title to have as long as your pointing out FACTS as they,so keep stirring-shit..
your point about frequent injuries being down to ‘over playing,over training’ has some validity..or squad is thread bare thus players are not getting enough rest..AW flanked in the January transfer window quite obviously..
walter,
nice challenge thrown to you i.e write an article assessing wengers perfomance..
SurferX
‘At what point would I sackAW? What is your threshold for saying enough is enough? What about a 5th placed finish? 3 consecutive 5th place finishes? No trophy for 10 years? 15 years? 20 years? Relegation? At what point do you concede that it’s not good enoughTony?…….
Here’s another article I have never read here : We will win the EPL in the next 3 years under AW. Here’s why & how”
“Someone have a go at explaining the fossils to me”
Let me give it a try.
It’s UA’s official belief that there’s a league and media – wide conspiracy to deny Arsenal a fair chance of winning the title so it would be utterly pointless to write an article predicting winning the league title given such a belief.
It’s also UA’s belief that it’s impossible to overcome the big spenders in PL and the pool of talented players is too small for Arsenal to have a chance at a difference making signings , given the fact other clubs can easily pay over the adds for those players.
Out all the hypotheticals for why Wenger might get a sack , only one has a chance of coming to fruition- “no trophy for 10 years” and if that happens , he might walk away on his own so again , no real point in writing about it.
And finally , it’s the belief of most UA regulars that AW has built so much equity in his early years that he should be able to have the job for life no matter the results so again , no point in writing about why should ever get a sack.
Dude, you are really far away from home aren’t you? 🙂
Cheers.
A couple of points.
I agree that Rogers has done exceptionally well this season (although it was only a couple of months ago that I recall Liverpool ‘fans’ calling 606 wanting him fired…). Good luck to him. However it has helped Liverpool significantly that (i) they were not in Europe at all, (ii) they were eliminated early from the domestic cups and (iii) probably related, they currently have almost all their players fit.
But just because Rogers has done well it doesn’t necessarily mean that Wenger has done badly! So, what if Wenger is only the 2nd best manager in the League in terms of performance against expectations after allowance is made for financial resources available? He is probably behind Pocchetino and likely others as well. But it doesn’t sound like good odds to me to get rid of a manager who is almost the best in the slender hope that a better one is obtainable.
As to why Arsenal don’t challenge some of the anomalous behaviour of the PL, the PGMOL etc – I don’t know? Perhaps they have? But it probably makes sense for Arsenal to do this behind the scenes. Arsenal would suffer too if the whole League was discredited, although likely less than the other major clubs. None of us really knows what goes on in the corridors of power…
Shard wrote:
“Besides, I let the negativity affect my matchday experience in the first half of the City game.”
That’s why I have been away from here for a while. The verbosity of the negative nellies is just mind-numbingly tedious. Also, I think the point of their coming here is to achieve exactly the purpose of depressing positive fans.
As I have said on numerous occasions in the past, Arsenal is not my sole source of happiness. Actually, it comes about 5th in my life (and thereabout it should be for any other rational adult fan), so when things are not going well for us as a club, I don’t get overly despondent. It is sad that when many of us (as I have heard others testify) are watching our games, we worry more about what some pathetic lowlifes with little accomplishments would come on here say than just watch, enjoy the game and see where we are at the end of the journey. The negative nellies (a.k.a. realistic fans) are not here to debate you, they are here to depress you.
Fuck them.
I scroll past their repetitive and unoriginal rants and so should you.
About the words from le Grove:
Suarez was NOT in the last year of his contract. The Liverpool hierarchy lied about the clause. Two things that make the RVP saga completely different from the Suarez saga. But hey why bother with fact at Le Grove
They played 10 games less than us. That is more than 20% less games. So the workload for any Arsenal player has been much higher. And add to that the injuries it makes those 10 games extra almost count double. We will wait to see how they do next season when they will play European football.
Liverpool not spending????? They have spend NET £168.000.000 over the last 3 seasons. Notice this is more than the ‘Arsenal money sitting in the bank’.
I will give some thought to performance criteria I would measure Wenger against, and what it might take for him to lose his job. I may even write an article on it. However personal/professional commitments over the next couple of weeks mean that you will have to wait I’m afraid.
An interesting question though – and I think fair to ask.
Pete,
Agreed but I think it’s more of point (iii). Imagine us having all our main players as we did earlier in the season? In fact, that is the only difference between us. I recall us outperforming them even with us still in the CL for a long time. They have all their regulars while we have half of our first team out.
Edu,
as I am completely ignorant I don’t see any reason to do this 😉
I don’t think you will haver ever seen a genius tactical analysis from my hand. I’m a not a qualified manager. So if anyone wants to write about using the 7-3-1 formation or the 2-3-3-2 formation that should be far superior feel free. I don’t do this. I only write about things that make me happy or make me a bit sad.
Now as for the referees… well about those things I am qualified and feel qualified so you will see me writing about that.
How Wenger is performing? Still the man for the job for me 🙂
Bootoomee
I think that you have been away for a while because you spent half the season preaching to all those ‘negative nellies’ that were top of the league and that the fact that City and chelsea were favorites was because that’s what the media awanted. And you have been proved miserably wrong
Talking about qualified managers. This weekend my son had to do a match in the Beneliga. This is the highest woman competition in Belgium and Holland. Come to think of it I have taken some pictures so I might write an article about it.
Anyway. I took place in the seats in the stadium and just before kick off was surrounded by half a dozen people with paper, laptops, camera’s. I found out that they were students for the coaching diploma. I don’t know at which level to be honest.
But there I was sitting and I was interested in the referees as I do know them personally and watching and studying their performances.
Now I must say that from hearing them talk it almost ruined the whole football fun experience. Is player 6 coming in from the left to the right? Is she supporting the attack most of the time or also defending? There is a lot of space behind number 5 at the left hand side. But they can’t get there.
And I was thinking to myself: yeah son great offside decision you made there. and look at that positioning of the arm with that goal kick decision. Perfect angle. Great spot ref for that foul. And well deserved yellow card for dissent. Nice way to carry the board by the 4th official. 😉
I completely enjoyed the match, the refs, the crowd, the singing not the fire cracker some idiot threw in the second half, but for the rest it was just fun. So why would I let it getting spoiled by trying to find out if player number 12 wasn’t doing enough defending when her team lost the ball.
Just play and have fun was my thought.
Blimey I might write an article about it. Untold goes to the ladies…. I wonder if Tony will let that title pass… 🙂
Can we have this on this site ? With all that crap posters and all !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQey-2LP1E4
Or this ? Now instead of the AKBs being bothered by them pesky AAAA types , we now have a laugh when they post their well thought out arguments or their cut and paste contributions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWjIZLO-PwE
SHUT THE FUCK UP !!!!!!
Brickfields, yet again you crack me up laughing!
WalterBroeckx March 31, 2014 at 11:57 am
Your points about Suarez/ RVP and that Liverpool have played 20% less games is valid. Bringing in net spend and the fact that Liverpool have spent more than we have in the bank is ridiculous. You say it as if it is something to be proud of that we decide to sit on cash reserves generated by our support base while our squad is severely tested where players are overplayed to the point of long term injury, or exhausted as looks the case with Giroud.
More worrying though is the fact that anyone watching Liverpool lately will see that Brendan Rodgers has his team disciplined and organised, playing great football, with a confidence, mental strength and resilience. No ‘played a bit with the handbrake on’, no ‘mistake’ humiliations, no fear. Rodgers is doing what a football manager should be doing, mentoring his team, preparing them well for every game and leaving the running of the club to those running the club. I believe when we get back to that model at Arsenal instead of having one dictator control everything at the club we may actually see some success again
@ Walter – in every profession there is always the most unqualified arsehole who thinks he has all the answers , but in reality he’s just not been told that he a fool.
I get patients who waste valuable time and money on weird and fanciful treatments before consulting the proper medical personnel.
Sad to say many are irreversibly ill by said treatments and die or lose limbs .
No matter how we advice them , they is always one smart aleck who has the cure !
Macduff,
You got me. I have been in hiding crying my eyes out in shame about how my faith in my team – BASED ON THEIR RESULTS AT THE TIME OF WRITING – have been scuppered. This is how you know fake fans like me: we show faith in our teams at good times and we don’t write them off when things are tough.
Great fans like you on the other hand have no faith in your team no matter how well they might be doing but you cannot attack them enough at difficult times. You are the best.
Forgive me if I ignore your subsequent posts as I am not worthy of engaging you in any argument involving Arsenal FC.
SurferX
Notice they have given no reasonable explanation why AFC or AW have not done anything about the corruption and wrongdoing on the gross scale that is suggested regularly here? Not the first time this question has been either ignored, or answered by a barrage of insults and hissy fits
I know you are reading this under moderation, and you know i have called you out. Why have AFC done NOTHING about this corruption your site is based on?
HAhaha ..Bootoomee..
Exactly as you said about their purpose being to depress you (negativity is far easier to spread anyway) That is what I realised at halftime. That I was letting their negative agenda affect me, and that in turn would make me feel negatively about the club, if unchecked. You are right.. Fuck them.. even if a lot of them seem intent on coming back to a site they claim to hate. Actually bless them.. They have such kindness in their hearts for us poor sycophantic clueless souls.
The world is not full of assholes. But, they are strategically placed so that you’ll come across one every day.
People change. Things go wrong. Shit happens. Life goes on.
Sometimes things happen in life that are not part of the plan. When that happens, don’t give up on your dreams, just find another way to reach them.
Worrying won’t stop the bad from happening, it will stop the good from being enjoyed.
macduff,
when Liverpool had some personal problems they also lost games. I have heard that at the end of the Sunderland match there was a sigh of relief that could be hear all the way to London from the home crowd.
Our handbrake team has beaten them twice this season also.
And if Rodgers is the one you admire most (I bet last week it was Mourinho as the big example to follow) fine for you. Admire him. so what happened with Rodgers when we beat them twice? Handbrake problems? Not prepared that well?
And as you will remember one of those defeats was immediately after us suffering a humiliation from their hands.
And why on earth is that magnificent Rodgers out of the League cup at the first hurdle? Not prepared well enough? Handbrake on? And why was he out of the FA cup? Oh, yeah that’s right. I remember. Some team from North London playing in red and white won against them.
If you would remember but I think you will have not been on Untold in those days as we were still top of the league by then, I wrote an article about that FA cup match. Asking the question of the loser of the FA cup match would be the winner at the end.
For Liverpool it meant they had no other matches apart from the league to contend with at all. We had to fight on 3 fronts still at that time.
By the look of it we might both be winners at the end of the season.
TBH
It’s their persistence trying to convert that convinces Me I’m on the right road.
In fact the stronger Arsenal become financially, the more obvious the project is working, the more persistent they become.
“I like Wenger but…”
“He did good for the club once but…”
“I’d genuinely like him to win the FA cup but…”
Always the same conclusion.
Same meat different gravy.
Macduff, first read the articles from the start and then come back with such nonsense.
Our site is based ON SUPPORT the club including manager and players. And we do like the way the club is being ran for the moment. No stupid adventures that might go wrong. Keep it careful and don’t go overboard by spending money that is hard to find.
One step at a time and don’t start running before you can walk.
And if you really don’t like Untold and our readers we really will not be angry when you decide to leave our deluded gang alone. I notice from a lot of comments that people avoid Untold because of persons like you.
Do you have something against people who have a happy view on life?
Tom
“And finally , it’s the belief of most UA regulars that AW has built so much equity in his early years that he should be able to have the job for life no matter the results so again , no point in writing about why should ever get a sack.”
Edu
“walter,nice challenge thrown to you i.e write an article assessing wengers perfomance..”
Walter
“They played 10 games less than us. That is more than 20% less games. So the workload for any Arsenal player has been much higher. And add to that the injuries it makes those 10 games extra almost count double. We will wait to see how they do next season when they will play European football.”
Pete
“I will give some thought to performance criteria I would measure Wenger against, and what it might take for him to lose his job. I may even write an article on it. However personal/professional commitments over the next couple of weeks mean that you will have to wait I’m afraid. An interesting question though – and I think fair to ask.”
This is great.. genuinely encouraging: the beginnings of rationale-objectivity.
Tom- I thank for you putting the point so succinctly (something I have failed to do). If your only mantra is ‘AW is sh1t and should be sacked and anyone that thinks otherwise is an AKB’; or ‘AW is a genius and anyone that says anything bad is an AAA’ then you are different sides of the same blinkered, ignorant coin.
Walter- completely agree with your comments regarding Liverpool: whatever happens this year, the challenge next year will be to consolidate. Financially they have pushed the boat out to get to the promised land (love Untold; rich with biblical allegory.. “pity the poor naysayers”, “the good lord wenger”, “BELIEVE!”.. I digress). They will find it harder to consolidate having done so (especially if they do not strengthen their squad- as we have found this year).
That being said, I do take exception to your ‘they have spent more than we have in the bank’ as it implies all the costs relating to a transfer are immediately realised to the P&L and cash- when the truth is nothing of the sort. Signing Ozil for £43m means we will see amortisation (P&l impact before salary) of £8.5m next year; and in cash terms it ultimately depends on the terms of repayment. We have no certain knowledge here- but given it was stated that our total-creditors (in relation of player-transfers) jumped by £18m in the 6 months to November- and Ozil was our only major signing- it is pretty clear that some of the transfer (around half?) was over a repayment-period. (Incidentally, had a look and couldn’t get anywhere near Net £168m.. around £110m on transfer-market.. but either way, secondary to the point I guess). Thats why the cash reserve is so ridiculously large for a football club- you do not need anything like that to conduct a sensible & prudent transfer policy.
Pete- appreciate that (and the time commitments); and yes would enjoy reading it! Many thanks in anticipation!
All is good: debate is healthy. Cheers.
@Tom
“Dude, you are really far away from home aren’t you? :)”
Mate- sometimes, I feel like I’d be made more welcome at the Lane! 🙂
@Walter
“I don’t think you will haver ever seen a genius tactical analysis from my hand. I’m a not a qualified manager. So if anyone wants to write about using the 7-3-1 formation or the 2-3-3-2 formation that should be far superior feel free. I don’t do this. I only write about things that make me happy or make me a bit sad.”
I find this strange- not wrong or anything of the sort, so hear me out. But you obviously like football, I presume you have played it (to whatever level). The one usual thing we have in common is to chew the fat over the games themselves- the players, the tactics, the manager, whatever. But you steer away from it all like its all some sort of side-show. Its like you goto watch a film, and when asked what it was like you say, “well, the seats were comfy and the popcorn tasted good- the ushers were a bit rude but overall I enjoyed it”. OK- but what did you think of the film?
@walter
Our site is based ON SUPPORT the club including manager and players.
A final point (for now.. dont get your hopes up!); but I think the one thing that is shared is support for the club- I dont think it progresses anything throwing that around in debates- like Im a better supporter than you because I think things should be better than they are; or you a better supporter than me me because you keep the faith in wenger. In truth, we both support the club. For the record, Ive been to the Emirates half a dozen times this season (I am now geographically displaced Islington where I grew up.. I get there when I can). Every time, Ive sung, Ive cheered the guys on and supported the team: whether good or bad. Personally, I find it hard to boo my team / players whatever the circumstances; but I also understand and respect other supporters right to do so- it doesnt make me a better supporter.
What we are debating is that this site’s modus-operandi (that sets it apart from most other Arsenal blogs) is based on the absolute unbending support of Wenger- everything else isn’t in question- and whether that is valid any longer. Moverover, whether that support is healthy or balanced (in terms of the lack of appraisal and accountability that should accompany the praise).
If we can concede that Giroud and co are exhausted from playing 20% games more than Liverpool players then surely that will also explain why they’re in a better position than us in the league? I may be wrong but I think I’ve heard some dismiss fatigue as a possible reason and that this was all down to Wenger being a rubbish manager.
And if I may add, injuries (which noone can really prepare for unless they are a sugar daddy club) meant that we couldn’t rotate players as much as we would have preferred. Without them I believe we had a squad that was good enough to compete on many fronts.
AL
March 31, 2014 at 2:20 pm
If we can concede that Giroud and co are exhausted from playing 20% games more than Liverpool players then surely that will also explain why they’re in a better position than us in the league? I may be wrong but I think I’ve heard some dismiss fatigue as a possible reason and that this was all down to Wenger being a rubbish manager.
I wouldn’t dismiss it Al- I would say it is a key reason why we have under-performed (relative to our resources) this year. The manager obviously had faith that Giroud could carry us through the season; or he had faith that Bendtner and Sanogo would step up as able deputies: neither of those points have been correct (imho). You could argue that he tried to buy a striker (Suarez, Higuan), but Id contend a club with our resources shoud be able to identify and secure the player that could of made a difference- it is one of the things you employ a manager to do. You could say our injuries have led to the situation; but why has he continually under-invested in the squad for 5 seasons (since the resources have been their to do so). If we hadn’t had to (over)-play Walcott, Ramsey, Wilshere, Ozil, etc.. would we have had so many non-contact injuries? Another problem he is paid to solve; another problem that doesn’t go away.
With our best first 11 out, we are a match for anyone I think (I still do not feel we have had enough mobility and power in front of the defence this year- imho we look far better with Flamini than Arteta in that role.. but compared with Fernandinho / Toure, Henderson / Gerrard, Simic / Luiz, etc we lack the defensive platform other teams have- and with zero pace in the side it makes relatively easier for the opposition away from home: I digress). You could say that about any of our past 5 years- injuries have held us back. He should of solved it, or at least mitigated it by now.
Liverpool will find it tough next year, no doubt. But equally, Id be amazed if they didn’t add a further 4/5 players to the squad (wouldn’t be surprised if this was funded by selling Suarez on though). It will be a tricky integrating them into the squad whilst changing your striker too..
@SurferX :
<<>>
Don’t forget this team is fielding many injuries now, and many key players are missing, this is why the performance was good, builds confidence and experience for these players, who may not usually play so often. I am waiting to see Arsenal next season, what ever happens in this one, for i hope we can start out with a FULL squad and be aware of tiredness early before it causes injuries.
When i think of the array of possibilities we now have in the team, and maybe in summer we get additions too, i look forward to a fully fit fighting squad.
@para
Yes agreed. He is probably only 3/4/5 players short in truth: a couple of CF’s, a mobile DMC, a RB (depending on Sagna) and an out an out winger (left sided). My despair comes from the fact that has been the case for so long- so who would be surprised if Sagna leaves after a protracted summer, he doesn’t replace him (or replaces him with youth), then Jenks gets injured or loses form / confidence. We’ve been here before..
yep, that is completely me. As long as the seats in the Emirates are comfortable I am a happy man. 🙂
About tactics and stuff. I know my limitations. So I will not go that way. I want the team to do their best and try. I have favourite players more based on sometimes outside football things than on their ability to perform such and such role in a team.
I usually go out to the toilet or get something to drink when people on TV start to talk about tactics.
Why should I worry about tactics when I don’t know much about it. I played till just about under professional level myself long long long time ago. But as I was a keeper I didn’t have to care about tactics that much. Just make sure I got the ball was the only tactic for me. And despite not being very big I was rather good as a keeper. Coming in the first team at 17 and staying there till I was just 20 and then some idiot came crashing in and broke my leg and my career was over.
On Saturdays I played as a striker but I was the type of striker that just plays on instinct. Was top scorer in my final season. But drove my trainer nuts as I didn’t listen to what he told me how to do it. But as I kept scoring he kept playing me. That career ended the same day as my goal keeping career by the way as you will understand.
So yeah I played it myself but never was I bothered by tactics. So why should I start to do this now. Let the bored people talk about tactics 😉
My forte is passion 🙂 Just like in my playing days… just do your best.
I was going to post earlier the famous words “don’t feed the troll!” But what we are seeing is a troll so high on his own methane that he is compelled to keep posting whether or not anyone posts to him. We have the ultra boring Surfer show. The downside of this is that normal debate has to run the gauntlet of the troll’s know all comments – hence normal debate is stifled – exactly what this troll wants – we have a control freak troll on our hands.
Brickfields – can you diagnose a cure?
Lol.. so I read all of that thinking, ok yep- I get that. Makes sense. Then this;
Let the bored people talk about tactics 😉 My forte is passion 🙂
Hold up! You get passionate about analysing 10 years of injury records, god knows how many matches looking for referee boas- but the tactics of the game itself leave you cold? You find THEM boring? Madness.. 🙂
A really good read.. http://www.wsc.co.uk/reviews/63-General/1075-inverting-the-pyramid
Some interesting stuff in there about the WM & Chapman (plus a little about AW too). Recommended.. if you ever change your mind, obviously 🙂
WalterBroeckx March 31, 2014 at 1:33 pm
I have nothing against people who have a happy view on life but then I know NOTHING and do not pretend to know ANYTHING about the peoples/users views on life, nor am even remotely interested. However, as an Arsenal fan I do have a problem with the factless accusations with ZERO usable evidence being constantly made on the site made as excuses for losing It’s everybody’s fault (referees, FA, Premier Leagie, media, Uefa, oilers) but our own fault and frankly as an Arsenal fan the incessant whinging is embarrassing.
Is it a coincidence every idiot pundit, newspaper and person on the street could predict in January what would happen to Arsenal by March? Guess what, the people you call ‘AAA’ were right, yet AGAIN. We collapsed, and as predicted the squad that the manager was responsible for was too weak and light mentally and physically. We couldn’t cope with the pressure or with the annual injury crisis, a league table that we have topped for 6 out of 8 seasons. As for the striker situation he let develop. Prior to this year I was always fully behind AW, but to go into this season, our best opportunity for years when the oilers and Man U were bedding in new managers, with Giroud, Bendtner and Sanogo was unforgivable.
It certainly is telling that at least FIVE times now you have refused to answer the question, “Why, with the resources available to AFC and powers of investigation, why have the club done NOTHING about this corruption that this site is largely based upon?
@ bjtgooner – Are you seriously following this crap ?
Anyway ,being helpful as usual …try this ..
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20060810/COLUMNIST23/608100713
And for those who want a laugh …..
http://mistupid.com/people/page019.htm
@Brickfields
Thanks for that, I knew we could rely on you!
Perhaps if that pill was inserted at one end and the STFU button at the other (to be sure to be sure) it might return him to semblance of sanity.
And for the serious ….
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3451-stupidity-should-be-cured-says-dna-discoverer.html#.UzmOmnaBpLM
….to a semblance of sanity….
I have an update version of the AAAA detector in my mouse and it scrolls past crap like magic and am only able to read logical posts .
However I try , it will not allow me to read shit.That’s why I was able to read all the posts that I had missed over the weekend in a single sitting !
Note -a single sitting is equal to an hour . For an AKB anyway !For some it may feel like an eternity !
@SurferX March 31, 2014 at 3:18 pm
That is the most frustrating thing here, we have probably been only a few players short every season since 2006. It is one of the main reasons our captains and best players have wanted to leave us. The frustration is not a result of this season- its from the same predictable weaknesses, mistakes and lack of any real ambition but bank balance season after season. We prove the likes of Owen, Hansen, Shearer, Lawernson and every other pundit correct year after year, allowing them to gloat in delights.
My consolation as a fan is that I was Arsenal London long before Wenger came to the club and will be long after he is gone, time is on my side. I know even if he stays for another 3 years I am likely to have at least 2/3 decades more of Arsenal without Wengers genius. And I won’t be paid £8 million a year to do it
Macduff
March 31, 2014 at 3:39 pm
“Is it a coincidence every idiot pundit, newspaper and person on the street could predict in January what would happen to Arsenal by March? Guess what, the people you call ‘AAA’ were right, yet AGAIN. We collapsed, and as predicted the squad that the manager was responsible for was too weak and light mentally and physically. We couldn’t cope with the pressure or with the annual injury crisis, a league table that we have topped for 6 out of 8 seasons. As for the striker situation he let develop. Prior to this year I was always fully behind AW, but to go into this season, our best opportunity for years when the oilers and Man U were bedding in new managers, with Giroud, Bendtner and Sanogo was unforgivable.
It certainly is telling that at least FIVE times now you have refused to answer the question, “Why, with the resources available to AFC and powers of investigation, why have the club done NOTHING about this corruption that this site is largely based upon?”
A very good summary yet again. A number of points worthy of an answer I think.
Somethings are so easily explained .
http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/for/lowres/medical-genealogy-genes-ancestor-relatives-neanderthals-forn743l.jpg
DUH !
http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/fashion-crash-collision-couple-stupid-i_m_with_stupid-mba0510l.jpg
Nice one Brickfields!
Brickfielde Gunners
Do you think someone purporting to be an attourney who spends their time pasting links to jokes into the comments section of a blog without ever making any football contribution is is in a position to be critical of anything?
Here we go again.. Back to the same grind about ‘ZERO EVIDENCE’. You’d think the past 20,000 articles are stuck in pergatory, or rather we are, to be bombarded by the same inane comments over and over.
Do these people who claim to desire a proper discussion come into the site and stick around on a normal day or month or year of the conversation and then make up their minds as to what is going on? Do they run the hard yards of looking at all the past discussions and debates and even conflicts the people on UA have had?
No. They just come in, look to dominate the agenda and DEMAND that YOU do all their legwork for them, give them every explanation that they might seek and generally desist from doing anything else, discussing anything else, failing which you are supposedly shy of debating an issue and hence are all sycophants.
Goodnight ,guys . The complaints department will now take all your calls !
http://www.glasbergen.com/wp-content/gallery/boss-cartoons/toon947.gif
Shard
March 31, 2014 at 4:23 pm
Do these people who claim to desire a proper discussion come into the site and stick around on a normal day or month or year of the conversation and then make up their minds as to what is going on?
Ive been reading this blog on and off for years. Hell, its not even my first time of posting (if anyone cares to check). I always thought that the opinions expressed were a little one-eyed: the lack of debate and reasoned thought has astonished me. Usually you will get the odd person who is prepared to defend the belief-system.. here its a vacuum of empty platitudes, petty insults and unchallenged opinion.
“We collapsed, and as predicted the squad that the manager was responsible for was too weak and light mentally and physically.” Discuss
“We couldn’t cope with the pressure or with the annual injury crisis, a league table that we have topped for 6 out of 8 seasons.” Discuss
“As for the striker situation he let develop. Prior to this year I was always fully behind AW, but to go into this season, our best opportunity for years when the oilers and Man U were bedding in new managers, with Giroud, Bendtner and Sanogo was unforgivable.” Discuss
““Why, with the resources available to AFC and powers of investigation, why have the club done NOTHING about this corruption that this site is largely based upon?” Discuss
You get the idea?
Nice one to finish on Brickfields!
@Shard.
Did they just come in, or were they sent in; are they dumb or just argumentative or deliberately disruptive – either way they are wasted space – and not really worth spending too much time on.
bjtgooner
March 31, 2014 at 4:34 pm
Did they just come in, or were they sent in
Just wandered in mate. Glad I did too 😉
One question though.. should this site actually be called Untold Wenger? I think that would clarify a lot- if you don’t want to hear opinions about the club- change the name.
bjtgooner
Not wasting any more time on them. It’s just a statement on their ‘tactics’ Maybe that’s what they mean by Wenger doesn’t do tactics. And since we all love Wenger, that is why we’re not willing to engage in their ‘debates’, when they demand, and whatever they demand. We clearly should just let them run the site and decide what is to be debated, when it is to be debated how it is to be debated, and ultimately what is right or wrong. Surely they are more intelligent and reasonable than us. They never tire of saying it so it must be true.
@SurferX
Instead of us all wasting time discussing why don’t you just give us all the answers? After all we are mainly deluded, ignorant, blinkered Wenger lovers who are incapable of intelligent debate. You on the other hand are arrogant, sanctimonious, patronizing, of superior intellect and know all the answers. Seems like any discussion would be a waste of time to me so you just advise us and Mr Wenger, Gazidis etc as to what we should be doing to ensure lasting success and a cupboard full of shiny cups.
You are the biggest bore I have come across on Untold and there have been a few over the years. Just bugger off.
Shard at 4:23 pm
“Here we go again.. Back to the same grind about ‘ZERO EVIDENCE’. You’d think the past 20,000 articles are stuck in pergatory, or rather we are, to be bombarded by the same inane comments over and over”
Let me remind you of how things in the real world work- maybe the resident jester attorney can correct me on this.
When a person makes an accusation, never mind a serious one like corruption, it is usually backed up by EVIDENCE. If the “20,000” articles you mention had enough substance that could be treated as evidence, they would have been used to expose the corruption in English football alleged on a gross scale by this site.
The reason this site is bombarded by what you consider to be inane comments over and over is because as soon as they are called out they refuse to answer. So for the umpteenth time:
Why, with the resources available to AFC and powers of investigation, why have the club done NOTHING about this corruption?
Macduff
You do realise that not all evidence is courtroom evidence right?
Why are Arsenal not doing anything about it? I don’t know they are not doing anything about it. I know they have not done anything about it publicly. And that is quite understandable because if even people who claim to be Arsenal fans like yourself, pass it off as excuse making, do you wonder what the media will do to Arsenal? Besides, damaging the credibility of a league they participate in, even if they are proved right, will also hurt them. I guess you don’t understand how a certain omerta of silence is maintained through subtle enforcement in large organisations. And you talk of the real world.
Although ref reviews had to stop this season, the general feeling (from what I can gather, and my own) is that the referees are doing less to harm Arsenal’s chances. I personally think it is only because they were getting noticed, but who knows, maybe Arsenal’s ‘dossier’ (which Wenger once brought up in relation to blown penalty calls) and their backdoor diplomacy has helped too.
No evidence is perfect. To take evidence to court isn’t always the solution people seek, nor the desirable solution. Courtroom judgments don’t always equal justice either by the way. So stop using a lack of ‘evidence’ or legal action as an argument. There is a huge body of evidence. Does it need further evidence? Sure. Not only doesn’t anyone deny that on Untold as far as I know, we’d welcome it.
ANd finally. This has been discussed to death before. On this very site. People don’t answer you because they have neither the time nor the inclination, nor..and this is crucial, the obligation, to humour you and the hundreds like you who have come before who rather than engaging and learning through their own patience and hard work, look to discredit and sneer at the people who have put in (or supported) the immense work that has been done to gather evidence. Your refutation of that evidence lacks any factual basis whatsoever. So if you think that evidence is faulty, do your own research, come up with alternative figures and then talk of evidence.
Since the Chelsea game I have in comments on various threads offered a large amount of statistical evidence as to why Arsenal are doing better this season than previously and that many of the previous areas of complaint have been addressed (poor defence – but see below, ability to hold on to a lead, a more pragmatic nature, an almost 100% record against the bottom half etc).
This season we have collapsed defensively three times. Embarrassing – yes. Terminal – no.
By far the biggest problem has been the failure to overcome the injury problem. But I question whether we have the resources to buy another 3 or 4 £20m players and put them on the bench as Chelsea/MC have done. If you think we should have done that, then don’t complain about ticket prices!
But even the issues with injuries don’t come close to outweighing Wenger’s greatest strength – as a developmental coach. The value he has added through developing players is the one thing that has kept us in the top 4 for the last 10 years.
As for what have the club done about the various shenanigans, Shard echoes far more eloquently my comments earlier in the thread: we don’t know that they haven’t.
Distinguishing between ‘evidence’ and ‘opinion’ is the problem. I see a lot of opinion being paraded as ‘evidence’ on the basis of an individuals view of various incidents. For example I read earlier that one such example was Rosicky being denied a clear pen at the weekend. I saw the incident and didn’t think it was a pen at all. At the very least there was certainly enough doubt that a pen couldn’t be given (which I imagine is why the ref didn’t book him for simulation). To give a pen the officials have to be 100% certain.
Incidently, in a civil action the decision is made on the balance of probability, not the ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ of a criminal trial. So if anyone believes the evidence is that strong that any reasonable person would be convinced by it, why not take a civil action against the alleged perps?
Regards buying another 3 or 4 £20m players I’m sure that we could based on our freely available accounts. I doubt that they would all be on the bench, spent in the right areas on the right players then players of that stature would certainly improve both the squad and first XI. If you want me to name four positions how about a proper winger (not CAM playing out of position), a striker (at least to challenge OG if not start every week), a defensive midfielder (say what you like but Arteta isn’t a proper defensive midfielder however hard he tries, and if Flamini is the answer why doesn’t AW trust him in the big away games?), and finally a right full back (even if Bac stays he has a limited time left at the top, Jenks btw isn’t there yet, and may never be).
Of course in spending these sums you have to be sure that the individual(s) making the purchasing decisions have good judgment. As Arsene is that individual surely the risk is minimal?
Sometimes, there is plenty of evidence, just takes a while for it to come out and be fully processed, often due to people suppressing due to fear or an agenda.
Pete
No question AW is one of the best developmental managers around and what he has done for Arsenal over the years is nothing short of remarkable but the question is ; can he be ruthless enough in the TM , now that he doesn’t need to watch every dollar?
One of his best character traits is the loyalty to his players and one of his worst character traits is the loyalty to his players.
It can’t be easy to keep telling his players over and over how he believes in them and then turn around and bring in someone better to replace them but that’s what managers like Mourinho do .
At this level there is no room for ‘passengers’ and any player who’s fit but doesn’t feature at least a handful of times during a season , is simply not good enough.
So , can Wenger be ruthless and calculated and put his personal feelings aside for the sake of trophies? I don’t think so.
He doesn’t define success in those terms. If I was cynical enough I would say he values developing an unknown player into a star and moving him on for a bundle of money ,as much as winning a trophy but I don’t really believe that.Not the latter part of that statement anyways.
Does he have it in him to force an unhappy player to stay when said player has three years left on his contract? ( Alex Song)
Does he have it in him to identify a player and go after him with the full weight of the club behind him? I’m not sure.
It was very interesting to hear Wenger say that not buying Yaya Toure was at the very top of his regret list. It would’ve been interesting to hear the reporter ask the follow-up question as to why exactly that was but he didn’t.
Was it because Wenger didn’t rate him at the time or was it because He didn’t want to pay his market value.
We all know Yaya opted to go to Donetsk instead of waiting for his passport and work permit and come to London but what we don’t know is why Wenger didn’t get him a year or two years later when he was available for €2.7M and €5.5M when first Olympiakos and then Monaco snapped him up. That was exactly at a time when Vieira departed for Juve for some €20M. Toure would’ve been a perfect replacement and Arsenal had the ultimate insight track in form of his older brother Kolo.
I guess what I’m saying is that they are very fine margins at the top and there’s no room for many weaknesses or mistakes and while everybody makes mistakes , it’s the weaknesses personal and otherwise that make it very difficult for AW to succeed in today’s environment .
See where you are coming from Tom, but think Wenger can certainly be ruthless, Arshavin…..the strange case of Nelson Vivas…Bendtner lately, and even Podolski at times. But he also clearly has his favorites.
Song was a strange one, remember being really pissed off when he left…and wasn’t replaced, put that down to a behind the scenes thing, guess you could also say Song lacked defensive discipline, but then again, he was not unique in that
He may well prefer to develop players than use the TM all the time, guess old habits die hard. And as mentioned, he is rather good at developing players, but he will also have to be very involved with transfers this summer
I take your point about Arshavin and Bendtner , Mandi but I was talking more along the lines of Wenger being ruthless with players who give their best on the training pitch and during games but their best just not being good enough. Both Arshavin and Bendtner had the talent but one seemed to fall short in on the pitch effort department while the other clearly had some other issues. Would Arsen be able to to what Mourinho did with Mata , not that I admire him for it but it does deserve a certain level of respect.
The Fisherman and the Tourist
http://www.ba-bamail.com/Content.aspx?emailid=9309&memberid=763708#.UzpEt6K6ETE
A boat docked in a tiny seaside village. An American tourist complimented the local fisherman on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took him to catch them.
“Not very long,” answered the fisherman.
“But then, why didn’t you stay out longer and catch more?” asked the American. The fisherman explained that his small catch was sufficient to meet his needs and those of his family.
The American asked, “But what do you do with the rest of your time?”
“I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, and take a siesta with my wife. In the evenings, I go into the village to see my friends, play the guitar, and sing a few songs… I have a full life.”
The American interrupted, “I have an MBA from Harvard, and I can help you! You should start by fishing longer every day. You can then sell the extra fish you catch. With the extra revenue, you can buy a bigger boat.”
“And after that?” asked the fisherman.
“With the extra money the larger boat will bring, you can buy a second one and a third one and so on until you have an entire fleet of trawlers.
Instead of selling your fish to a middle man, you can then negotiate directly with the processing plants and maybe even open your own plant. You can then leave this little village and move to the city, Los Angeles, or even New York City! From there you can direct your huge new enterprise.”
“How long would that take?” asked the fisherman.
“Twenty, perhaps twenty-five years,” replied the American.
“And after that?”
“Afterwards? Well my Friend, That’s when it gets really interesting,” answered the American, laughing. “When your business gets really big, you can start selling stocks and make millions!”
“Millions? Really? And after that?” said the fisherman.
“After that you’ll be able to retire, live in a tiny village near the coast, sleep late, play with your children, catch a few fish, take a siesta with your wife and spend your evenings doing what you like and enjoying your friends.”
THE MAN CODE –
From…
http://mistupid.com/people/page024.htm
You may exaggerate any anecdote told in a bar by 50% without recrimination; beyond that, anyone within earshot is allowed to call B*LLSH$T. (Exception: When trying to pick up a girl, the allowable exaggeration rate rises to 400%)
Agreeing to distract the ugly friend of a hot babe that your buddy is trying to hook up with is your legal duty. Should you get carried away with your good deed and end up having sex with the beast, your pal is forbidden to speak of it, even at your bachelor party.
If a buddy is outnumbered, out manned, or too drunk to fight, you must jump into the fight. Exception: If within the last 24 hours his actions have caused you to think, “What this guy needs is a good ass-whoopin”, then you may sit back and enjoy.
If you compliment a guy on his six-pack, you better be referring to his beer.
Never join your girlfriend/wife in dissing a buddy, except when she’s withholding sex pending your response.
Never talk to a man in the bathroom unless you’re on equal footing: either both urinating or both waiting in line. In all other situations, a nod is all the conversation you need.
AAA? BBB (Bullshit Baffles Brains) more like. The contributors and some regular posters to this blog rarely miss an opportunity to brand dissenters as the so called AAA which appears to be part of the editorial policy and is complete bullshit. Intelligent posters (like yourself) with an alternative view are verbally abused by the blog nazis (Godwin alert) to such an extent that reasonable objective discussion or debate becomes impossible and it all degenerates into infantile name calling.
Well said Jax.
Jax has been supporting Arsenal longer than any of you besides Nicky and knows this AAA branding is complete crap. Supporters of all clubs have different views and that should be respected.
I brought up the idea of taking these ref reports to court last year but was given short shrift. Bob explained to me that it would be a hopeless exercise and had some reasonable arguments about why this would be though I can’t recall what they were now.
Unfortunately just going to court with reports on refs done by someone who is also a ref and is a supporter of Arsenal is hardly evidence of anything. Walter tells me he has an army of refs watching these games and apparently they have to remain secret so it would just be his word against the PGMOL. But as I argued before it’s all very well policing the game from the security of your living room but that doesn’t replicate the conditions on a match day where decisions are made swiftly and without the chance to analyse these things on tv as Walter and co. have.
Also I recall the despair at who was reffing the Swansea game and yet the ref blew up just as Swansea had a great chance to win the game. If it happened to us the conspiracy theorists would be out in force.
The infamous Rupert. You were quoted to me above as another voice of rationality on this ‘Arsenal’ blog- good to see you posting.
Rupert
Because it happens more regularly to us.. Besides.. As I said before, it isn’t just one big anti-Arsenal thing though we do seem to suffer the most. There has to be another explanation to it beyond just the club’s name.
If it exists of course. Going to court everyone says as if that is the ultimate aim. As I see it the ultimate aim is to have greater accountability and transparency from the ref organisation. They are in charge of situations affecting millions, if not billions of dollars, and yet they have such little oversight. That in itself should be cause for alarm. It would be anywhere else except in sport. People like their illusions to be maintained in sport. It is after all an escape from the ‘real world’.
By the way. I had suggested going to court earlier too. But as I understand (which is not much) in legal cases, to submit a case you have to show yourself as an injured party. And the legal definition of that is not simple.
I know the Indian system gets around that by having a PIL (public interest legislation) which has its own abuses, but allows people not directly affected by some wrongdoing to approach a court for redress as long as it serves public interest. In fact it led to a cricket body being declared as performing a public function (despite being a private body) and hence having to comply with the same scrutiny as a public body would.
I don’t know if the same provision exists under UK law. If it does, it might be worth a shot, although only a lawyer could tell us what is the best course of action to take (and even they might vary in their opinions)
However, just because there isn’t a legal case, doesn’t mean something isn’t wrong. Forget corruption. Whether it’s there or not, surely everyone can get behind the demand for better refereeing standards, more transparency in how they are allotted games, how the referees are chosen in the first place, what parameters are used to gauge their performances and what checks and measures are in place to guarantee their impartiality? Because as of now, there are virtually none. And that is troubling. To me at least. Even more because a lot of evidence (statistical and otherwise) suggests that refereeing is not as it should be. Whether by design or not is a different matter.
It is interesting that the rupert has posted in support of Jax’s hypocritical comment.
When I first read that comment I thought of you rupert, why, because you previously used the term nazi to describe those who disagreed with you – and then like Jax had the audacity to complain about name calling.
Rupert – why don’t you make a big effort to be less negative between now and the end of the season – do you think you could manage that?
SCHOOL
A little girl had just finished her first week of school. “I’m just wasting my time,” she said to her mother. “I can’t read, I can’t write – and they won’t let me talk!”
BIBLE
A little boy opened the big family bible. He was fascinated as he fingered through the old pages. Suddenly, something fell out of the Bible. He picked up the object and looked at it. What he saw was an old leaf that had been pressed in between the ages. “Mama, look what I found,” the boy called out. “What have you got there, dear?” With astonishment in the young boy’s voice, he answered, “I think it’s Adam’s underwear.”
Man’s Rules for Women
( Also applicable for non women ,too!)
From…
http://mistupid.com/people/page026.htm
1.Sometimes, we are not thinking about you. Live with it.
2.Ask for what you want. Let us be clear on this one: Subtle hints do not work. Strong hints do not work. Obvious hints do not work. Just say it!
3. Come to us with a problem only if you want help solving it. That’s what we do. Sympathy is what your girlfriends are for.
4.A headache that lasts for 17 months is a problem. See a doctor.
5.You can either ask us to do something or tell us how you want it done – not both. If you already know best how to do it, just do it yourself.
6.Whenever possible, please say whatever you have to say during commercials.
Bad Metaphors from Stupid Student Essays.
From..
http://mistupid.com/people/page027.htm
Some of this reminded of certain people and made perfect sense to me !
The hailstones leaped from the pavement, just like maggots when you fry them in hot grease.
This is for Gord to decipher –
Long separated by cruel fate, the star-crossed lovers raced across the grassy field toward each other like two freight trains, one having left Cleveland at 6:36 p.m. traveling at 55 mph, the other from Topeka at 4:19 p.m. at a speed of 35 mph.
He fell for her like his heart was a mob informant and she was the East River.
Even in his last years, Grandpappy had a mind like a steel trap, only one that had been left out so long it had rusted shut.
The plan was simple, like my brother-in-law Phil. But unlike Phil, this plan just might work.
The young fighter had a hungry look, the kind you get from not eating for a while.
He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck either, but a real duck that was actually lame. Maybe from stepping on a land mine or something.
It was an American tradition, like fathers chasing kids around with power tools.
Her voice had that tense, grating quality, like a first-generation thermal paper fax machine that needed a band tightened.
It hurt the way your tongue hurts after you accidentally staple it to the wall.
AH ,WOMEN !
The Good Housekeeping Way #7
Cure for headaches: Take a lime, cut it in half and rub it on your forehead. The throbbing will go away.
The Real Women’s Way
Cure for headaches: Take a lime, cut it in half and drop it in 8 ounces of tequila. Drink the Tequila. You might still have the headache, but at least you will be too drunk to give a hoot!
The Good Housekeeping Way #9
Freeze leftover wine into ice cubes for future use in casseroles and sauces.
The Real Women’s Way
Leftover wine?????